house of commons. after that, remarks from touch -- ted cruz. >> this week, and john taliaferro discusses his newly released biography entitled "all the great prizes: the life of john hay, from lincoln to roosevelt." >> john taliaferro, when did you decide to spend a lot of time with john hay, and who was he? delicioused he was a subject for a biography when it dawned on me that he had been, not only at abraham lincoln's bedside immediately after his assassination, but also at the bedside of william mckinley in

1901. i thought, who could this below be? theourse, when i opened archives, i realized with a rich subject it was. john hay, his life really has two bookends at either end of his biographical shelf. there is lincoln on one end, he was his private secretary, lived in the white house for every war years. so much of what we know about techoln come from hay's with him. he served on the mckinley as well and was secretary of state for teddy roosevelt, so you have these iconic bookends in american history, and then when you look deeper, you realize all the chapters in between, from the civil war to the beginning of the 20th-century, he is a presence in every one of those chapters. his fingerprints are on the

pages. in many cases, he has written those chapters in american history. >> when did he live? >> born in 1838, and died on july 1 1905. >> where did his last start? when was born in indiana, he was a young boy, his father was a doctor, which moved to warsaw, ill., which is a mississippi river town 100 miles west of spring killed, illinois. mark twain country. >> what was his life like before he met abraham lincoln? >> he was a bright, young boy, his father was a doctor. all those around him noted his great intelligence and potential. he had an uncle, a lawyer, who agreed to send him off to college. at age 16 he went east to brown university and providence.

him.y, that transformed he was a brilliant student. his professors said he was one of the greatest translators of foreign languages they had ever met. he wanted to be a poet, he wanted to be the next and for allan poe. but when he finished college at a young age, i think 19, they were not hiring poets, even back in those days. so his uncle said, well, why don't you come to springfield and read the law? he did, reluctantly, john hay did. the guy in the next office was dark horse candidate, this long, gangly lawyer who was running for president on something called the republican ticket. only won hisln not party's nomination, but then won the election, and he needed somebody to write letters. on was a gifted writer, came

as the second of two secretaries, and went off in the spring of 1861 with lincoln to washington. >> there is a picture in your book of john hay with a glove only on one hand. is that something that he did all the time? >> that was a picture taken of him when he was becoming a blade in washington. somethinge was put on to show, -- people would not send e-mails back then. they would send cards to say i will visit. that was his calling card, as it were. john hayes, being a country boy from illinois, had become something else when he came to washington, and he felt it was fashionable. the image of him in the lincoln movie, we can talk about that later.

in thee is a picture book of robert lincoln. they look alike. wasobert tod lincoln abraham and mary tod's eldest son, who went off to boarding school in new hampshire when abraham lincoln was running for president. and then, of course, was away at harvard. hay and robert had known each other in springfield and kept up when robert came down from cambridge to visit the white house. but president clinton, for some reason, -- lincoln, for some reason, did not have a warm relationship with robert. maybe because of the absence, being away as a circuit lawyer, campaigning, and then robert at college. hay, who was in the white

house, whether it a couple of rooms away from lincoln in the second floor of the white house, sort of got taken on as a second son. his love literature, he shared with lincoln. he would pad down the hall in his nightshirt. because of hay, we have descriptions of lincoln looking like a sport in the night. they bonded because of their love of literature. >> how old was he when he went to work for abraham lincoln? >> he would have been just shy of 21. >> where did he physically live in the white house? room, theretary's northeast corner of the white house. if you picture the white house, looking from lafayette square, the upper left-hand window. the president and his family occupied seven rooms in the second floor of the white house. this is before the west wing.

and all of the affairs of the government, administration, were conducted on that floor as well. there was very little security, there were always office seekers, messengers of running in and out all the time. lay?ho is nicho >> he was a friend. he came to the united states as a young man and ran a small newspaper in illinois, and lincoln brought him on first to be the first private secretary. they all got so voluminous that he could not handle it. he suggested they bring on the hay. so they came to washington together on the train with the lincoln's, and were roommates

for four years in the white house and then were great friends, collaborators together. once lincoln died, and even before, they have decided they were going to write a book about lincoln, so they started collecting papers with the idea that they would eventually write a biography. it took them 25 years and they wrote a million and a half by every. >> how much of that have you read? >> every word. >> how long did it take you? >> i was taking notes so i did not have to read it twice. i digress on that somewhat. writingnt 25 years would be the benchmark biography of lincoln, published serially in the century magazine at first and then 10 volumes of books. they always say, we did it together.

and did not publicly put knowledge which part. i have discovered it in the lates of nicolay and the -- library of congress, there is a note signed by his daughter indicating which chapter her therefore, byand logic, the other chapters were written by hay. i read through the volumes. it took me the most of a summer, with this memo from her daughter beside me, and then pay's words spring out. nicolay's first language. hay was the poet. with that matrix guiding me, it is starkly obvious which parts of the biography are written by john hay, and some of the writing is really elegant, special. >> when you think back on those

10 volumes, when were you stopped and said i cannot believe i just read that? >> two instances. hay took responsibility for writing the first 40 years of lincoln's life before he went to washington. some of the evocative descriptions of life on the front here, of lincoln's are really very soulful. compared to some of the lincoln stuff today, necessarily revelatory, but more in the line of carl sandburg. written almost as an elegy to lincoln. and then hay wrote most of the

civil war battle scenes. , summoning, he could nail it in a paragraph, one of the va battles -- i think cold harbor. hishen did john hay made bride? >> after he left the white house, after the assassination, -- incredibly traumatized -- but he had already planned to go abroad to serve in paris, which he did. got him a job there, went on to two other stops in the vienna and madrid. instead of going to work on the

lincoln biography, instead of being a poet, instead of going back to illinois, which is considered the boondocks, he went to new york and started writing editorials for the tribune and quickly became what really was said the best editorial writer we have had. while living in new york, he met the daughter of a man named amethyst stone, one of the wealthiest men in america. before there was a carnegie or rockefeller, he was a big deal. he started railroads, he was from cleveland. his daughter, clara, had come to visit an aunt and uncle, and was introduced to this promising young journalist, and they fell deeply in love. >> what kind of marriage did they have? >> a very strong marriage. four children, they lived a

grand, gilded age life, they would travel in the style and broad. they had a mansion on millionaires a row, euclid avenue, in cleveland. into ally in 1886, moved house in washington. having said this about their of that, hay was still fellow with the glove off, one that knew how to impress the ladies. there were at least two that caught his eye, to whom he devoted a great deal of attention, even during his marriage. >> those two were? anna lodge, one was daughter of henry cabot lodge, of massachusetts. expansionists,t

foreign policy guys. of the doornd roosevelt. he had a beautiful young wife. -- theodore roosevelt. hay became smitten by her. next was the wife of another senator, james donald cameron, the son of simon cameron, the guy that lincoln had kicked out of his cabinet. cameron was really the fende tel. fatale. elizabeth sherman cannon. excuse me. i am getting tongue tied. she was a beauty and all the men in washington have their tongues out when she came to town.

25 years younger than her husband. .e had grown children best friend, henry adams, fell for her, and then john hay himself. his dalliance with danny blogged. >> we will come back to this in a moment. i want to show some video from 11 years ago, in 2002. only 35 seconds. then we will come back and ask you some questions about yourself. >> what unsettled me about it mount rushmore was that the story was too simplified. that america could be boiled down into a bumper sticker. i liked it when things are a little mess here. the fact that the creator of our shroud of democracy had also

been a klansman -- this is a little more complicated. that our values, as good as they are, the message of democracy, ames from the pace to -- stew -- >> just a little taste. who was he, and how many books have you written since? >> there is a connection, if you look at the subtitle of my book, and if you think about mount rushmore, you get it. he was the megalomaniacal sculptor of not rushmore. he had wanted to build kossel structures and he started in georgia building stone mountain. hea member of the clan, crossed some of his fellow

klansmen, and they drove him out of georgia. he was commissioned to inscribe mount rushmore. 11 years ago, you asked me who was found mount rushmore -- stage fright, i almost forgot. now i am here to tell you, george washington, thomas jefferson, abraham lincoln, and teddy roosevelt. my book, "all the great prizes: the life of john hay, from is onn to roosevelt," who the cover? two of the mount rushmore people. truly the denizens of the book, probably goes back to my research into those presidents. to write about mount rushmore, i had to know the understanding of what this president was. >> what have you done between then and now? also said one book, in the late 19th century. it is a book called "in a far

country peer " it is about a couple, man and woman, who broke up to the bering strait of alaska to essentially bring civilization to the eskimos who live up there, kind of an adventure story with a lot of fun to research. i got to spend a lot of time in the wild country, go out into the ice. >> where are you from originally? >> native of baltimore, married to a texan, move to texas. i have a summer house as well when it gets too hot in texas. >> what else have you done before getting into the book- writing business? >> i am a recovering journalist. i work for several magazines, my latest stop at "newsweek" and that has been 20 years, and it is no more. back to john hay, started in

italy and -- indiana, illinois, spent some time overseas. how many different countries did he live in, when he become an ambassador? back to after the clinton pres, he went first to paris, then to vienna, then to spain. in all the years after that, because he was married to this wealthy woman, they traveled, took the grand tour. they would spend six, eight months abroad. they loved england above all else. in 1897, when another one of hay's fellow ohioans, william mckinley, was elected to the presidency, he chose john hay, who was very cosmopolitan, very well connected in foreign

circles, and also a very large contributor to his campaign. to london as an ambassador. the term ambassador was not officially used until 1893, under the second grover cleveland's administration. he was the second ambassador to england. then the spanish american war broke out in 1898. a hapless secretary of state, john sherman, who was not up to the task, and was shunted aside and hay was brought back. >> he was general sherman's brother? >> yes, also from ohio. hay was brought back in the fall of '89 the aid after the war was over to take over the portfolio of state, which was a much larger portfolio. instead of being the cannot -- continental united states and

alaska, we now had cuba, pr, blond, and -- guam. >> how many years did he spend at the new york tribune? >> about three, four. >> did he spent seven years as secretary of state? >> help me here. 1898, diedin october in office, and june 1905. .> go back to the children one of his children was named adelbert. what is the story of his life? how robertabout lincoln was not very close to his father. a greatdest son was kid, but for some reason, he could not do anything right in

his father's eyes, at least as a young boy. he was sort of big, ungainly. he was a physical kid. an endorsement. his son wanted to play a new sport of football. they went off to yale, and did well, and in the years after he graduated, hay did an amazing thing. he chose his son to go off to pretoria, south africa, in the middle of the war, to be america's consul to the boer republic. boy acquitted himself well, grew up on the spot, and everyone was very impressed. he came home and president said, i would like you to come to be my private secretary.

the exact same job that john hay had for abraham lincoln. you can imagine how proud his father was to see his son go through this great maturation. before he could start the job, and delbert pay went up to his yale reunion, came back to his hotel room, sitting in the window, smoked a cigarette, fell asleep, and fell. it was an awful year, beginning with his son dying, and then the assassination of mckinley in september, then the death of his writing partner and old friend john and george nicolay, and then his other best friend, clarence king. >> who was clarence cain? ideal mansort of the in the world of john hay. yale, he was an

explorer, he had gone out as a surveyor, geologist, the first decline of many of the mountains in this year -- in the sierra. he went on to found the u.s. geological service. hansona wonderful and guy who was well-liked. thrived inr really any way. he would run off to start a mining inventor, fail, it would borrow money, so he was a frustrating friend. it was very crushing when he died without reaching its full potential. >> of what? >> tuberculosis. >> five of hearts? >> a group of friends in washington, when hay came to washington, he was assistant

secretary of state under president rutherford b. hayes. henry adams had just moved here to begin researching his great, great biography of the madison and jefferson administrations. cain had come to start the bothgical survey and then of them and their wives would have tea afternoon, and the five of them call themselves the five of hearts. >> anyone that comes down to lafayette square in washington and seize the white house will be in the middle of hay country. explain what you see and how it relates to john hay and henry adams? >> as you know, lafayette square next toix-acre square the white house, lined with town houses.

everybody and anybody seemed to live on lafayette square, or in the blocks around that. what we forget today, washington was a very small place socially, and everyone knew their neighbors, the history of who lived there. people came and went, as they do in washington, because people change jobs, people are in office, out of office. 1884, and john hay and henry adams began construction on side-by-side houses on the north side of the square. the idea being that the hay's would take two-thirds of the property. they had four children. the adams, who had none, would take one third. and the two best friends with live side by side, looking across to the white house, and

ground zero for the social scene in washington. they knew everybody around, all in and out of each other's rides, atcarriage dinner party spirit it was all very tight and wonderful. that is why it was really remarkable that adams and hay, and had such wondering eyes, not be noticed by those around them. >> located there is the -adams building. adams building. is that the same one? the hay house and adams

house were torn down and a hotel was built on that site. >> what is the view if you are up there and looking out? andohn hay built the house, across the parlor, he could see out his bedroom, looking at the white house. it is very moving to go there and imagine. >> he was on the left-hand side on the second floor? if your back is to lafayette hotel, ifud hay-adams you could look across to the white house, hay could look up to his window. the hotel, all of those windows on that side, the higher stories, looked across to the white house, washington

monument, and clear to the jefferson memorial. >> you mention in your book, st. john's church. what is the importance of that? roosevelt' wente to church there on sundays. after church, he got in the habit of walking across the street and coming into hay's house, and they would sit in the library and talk for two or three hours. this is the president of the united states and secretary of state. i mentioned, lincoln was sort of a father figure to john haight. well, theater roosevelt's father had died when he was a very young man. hay's son had recently died. said roosevelt nor hay

this out lied, but hay almost became a father figure to roosevelt. >> what was the difference of age? >> exactly 20 years apart. >> that church is now known as the church of presidents. this. ask you you read the 10 volumes. did you read the diary? >> hay's? >> yes. >> my goodness. >> how much is in there? >> you always which for more, there are a large gaps in it, genuine, so real to living atody that was close to lincoln making these observations. the most daunting aspect of the book was, ok, i'm going to have to write about lincoln. believe me, plenty of people

have come before me. if you were staging a play, you have lincoln in the room, nobody will look at the other actors. what i chose to do was killed pageln off in the first and bring him back as john hay's lincoln. the reader realizes that so much of what we recognize and know about lincoln was given to us from john hay, also in the autobiographies, but mostly these snippets. john hay saw himself as a poet, writer. he realized he was a writer in the presence of greatness. the descriptions of lincoln on horseback, what he ate for breakfast, his moods, all of this comes from hay's diaries. we would love to have more.

anyone who read or write or cares about lincoln -- so fortunate to have john hayes and bear. person readverage those diaries, the 10 volumes? >> the 10 volumes you can get. there is this wonderful thing called google book, where you can look of almost anything online. the volumes were transcribed by one of the great lincoln scholars, michael berlinger game, and are available in paperback. anyone who loves lincoln would enjoy reading those. it is not a chore to get through them. >> i have a quotation in your book from a fellow named david rank and-barbie. intellectual an snob -- >> well, he came from humble

roots. he came from rural roots. the big city, he became cosmopolitan. he took to gentility. .e did live the life he was very wealthy. he had servants. >> where did he get his money? >> his wife. she was married to the will take -- to the wealthy guy from cleveland. you could sort of make that pink tea observation about him. roosevelt thought he was not strenuous or rugged enough. mostly hung out with other intellectuals. henry adams, the novelist henry james, artists, people like

that. he was not the guy walking down the street with his sleeves rolled up. i guess that is an apt description. hay u paint a picture of roosevelt being close, and then you write in chapter 16 -- this is from theodore roosevelt. hay had this was after died, wrote this. roosevelt did not keep his light under a bushel. he wanted to take credit for

absolutely everything that happened in his public life. he was writing that letter also to his good old buddy henry cabot lodge. had been chasing after henry cabot lodge's wife for a little bit, too. you could consider roux about old buddy lodge, our john hay was a great man, but remember i am even greater. what i go on to say in that chapter is that roosevelt never hay said such a thing about to hay he was alive. >> i will read a little more here.

roosevelt' likes to practice fighting sticks in the frostyouse, get up on a morning, get on his horse and ride through rock creek park. lodge was also a great horsemen and like that lifestyle. to goidea of exercise was out and stroll up 16th street with his friend henry adams. theodore roosevelt had a thing about guys that did not have calluses on their hands. never had a callus on his

hands. criticizing, talking in an effective manner. what did that mean? all, we do not actually know how hay talked. >> there is no audio? >> no, there is none. frosty he wrote some times in a manner that may have seemed affected. oftentimes, these letters were to his friends, sort of a mock--in-cheek, drole, a small business. i am not trying to be apologetic or defend, but anybody who reads into any of hay's letters realizes that he was one of the great writers of his day. ofdid lindsey cameron, wife

the center, live on lafayette square, too? >> she live within a stone's throw away from his door. her husband was 23 years older and did not know or care what she did. she kept hay and henry adams like tame cats. always around her. >> you have quoates in here from adams to roosevelt. >> a pretty good description. >> i gather they did not like him? roosevelt, no small ego there. roosevelt and to himself as an historian. he was writing a history, wrote

the history of 1812 practically before he got out of college and was always tried to lecture adams, one of the great historian of his day, could not stand it. roosevelt, of course, his manner, his physicality was like a bull in a china shop. it is rated -- this graded on adams, who was a drawing room prig. -- adams. great quotes from say, if henry

adams was choosing who would be on mount rushmore, he probably would not have chosen theodore roosevelt. the interesting thing about that lownot so much adams' opinion of tudor roosevelt, it is that his best friend john hay also had a very close relationship and close working relationship with theodore roosevelt, and so adams for gave -- for gave his best friend for being friends with roosevelt. it was a really good flexibility in that little triangle, at between the atoms and hay part. heartst was the five of plus one? the five of hearts existed

for a very brief moment. i looked through all the letters and correspondence. the moments that those five were after they together, call themselves the five of hearts, probably fewer than 10. after clover adams committed suicide, which she did at her house on the lafayette square, right before they were to move into their new house, december 1885, they were no longer five. thats right after that, two of the hearts, hays and adams, started to look at other women in washington. king also had another secret wife. unbeknownst to his friends, married a black woman in new york. >> because of what is happening in our country right now, i want to go to page 131 and get to to

put this in perspective as part of the discussion, when john hay was a tribune rider. -- writer. improved any, these

many years later? conductournalism or the of our country? [laughter] think some of our civil service reform has helped some of that. getting back to hay's part of all that. there was a huge letdown. oversimplifying here. but after lincoln was assassinated and andrew johnson was nearly impeached, just an embarrassment, ulysses grant became president. lincoln'shers in circle, they thought he was a disaster as a president. saw grantjournalist,

-- to everything that lincoln had worked for and murdered four. martyred for. there were a number of scandals in the administration. one of his secretaries was driven out of office. the so-ng the pulpit of called great choral organ, the tribune, went after the general mercilessly. >> a couple of numbers in your book. when he was at the tribune, a circulation of 45,000? >> i am trying to remember, but it is closed. you remember, the tribune was also published in weekly and biweekly petitions that went around the country -- conditions

that went around the country. probably the most widely read newspaper in the country. >> the other number that struck me, when he was secretary of state, only 80 people? in 1979tant secretary, -- 1879. remember, foreign ministers were still wearing sports and sashes and plumed hats. the state war and navy building, now called the old executive office building, next to the white house, maybe a thousand other employees at trade councils and other things like that. it was not much of an operation. >> we are obviously leaving a lot out in the book. it is a big book. how long did it take you from researched your writing? >> every minute of five years.

it was unrelenting. as soon as you finished lincoln, you would move on to hay's great career as a writer and journalist, secretary of state. you could write many volumes on his work in the state department. >> it is interesting how exciting other historians have gotten excited over hay. here is an interview with harold holzer. to johnld like to talk hay. i was a political copter if -- operative for mayor cuomo when he was a candidate for mayor, governor of new york state. the idea of being so close, on such a spare staff, and writing about him, seeing him, observing him, helping him, watching him

interact with other people, being a witness to history. writers do not think they are making history but they think they are observing and interpreting history. hay is the one i wanted to be. >> how much competition did you have with other books that were being written? >> none to speak of on hay particularly. and there were many books that were great help. if you imagine, when you get it is a growing library of great work. on the other end, roosevelt. lots of great work done there. all the work that has been done on america's emergence as a world power at the turn of the 20th century, great scholars have weighed in to that. i can avail myself of that. there were two other biographies of note on john hay, one written

in the early part of, i think, 1914, 17, something like that. the other one written in 1933, which i believe won the pulitzer prize. >> how did you make yours different? different bye writing about hay as he moved through history, not so much history that surrounded him. you all is said and done, would say hay was a statesman, or lincoln's secretary, what got hay to lincoln's attention was that he was a great writer. when i realized there were so many thousands of letters of john hay, and there was a man -- people loved to keep the letters.

there was so much of hay in his own riding, i decided to tell his story and let history be the backdrop to john hay's story, instead of putting him into this zealot-like character in the corner, like other historical snapshots. >> would you give us an example, a story that you like to tell when john hay worked closely with abraham lincoln? which gives the humanity of both. >> there is one part of john hay's diary where he goes on for a few pages more than elsewhere, and that is on the night of the election returns for lincoln's reelection in 1884. a few months earlier, no one thought clinton would win

reelection. there was a lot of gloom in the white house. -- lincoln would win reelection. hay was at the telegraph office, a short walk away from the white house. he sat up through the night with lincoln and watched him pace, watched for the returns to come in from various states. when the returns came in, they realized that the soldiers had voted, and they realized that made the difference. they had been allowed to go home on leave. lincolnscription of being concerned but calm, keeping everyone around him at ease by telling his great stories, one of the great moments in political history. we have all become familiar of the stories of election night for various presidential candidates. this is one of the first.

>> you start your book with a quotation from john milton hayes, 1905. >> where did that come from? >> john hay essentially wrote his own benediction. in the spring of 1905, he had a bad heart. his health was very poor. yet, theodore roosevelt, who had been elected the previous fall, been inaugurated in march 1905, said, please stay on for as long as you can for another term. my view, he had been with the kinley as secretary of state, with mckinley being wreck -- reelected, he stayed on.

roosevelt came on after, stayed on for the rest of that term. he has -- is basically headed into his fourth presidential term as secretary of state. in poor health, he had gone on to europe to what was the state of our treatment for that time, going to the balance in germany. on the ship home, he knew that his health was not any better. in his diary, just about his final entry, he wrote that passage, which is where i got the title. >> before we started this, i wanted to ask you to read that, from page 543, he died, as you told us, july 1, 1905, and then you talk about the diary, and it starts, "i say to myself." >> i knew when i read this, this would be the title of my book.

this is john hay's diary. "i say to myself that i should not rebel as the thought of my ending at this time. i have lived to be old, something i never expected in my youth. i have had many blessings, domestic happiness being the greatest of all. i have lived my life. i have had success beyond all the dreams of my boyhood. my name is printed in the journals of the world without a script qualification, which, may, i suppose, be called fame. by mayor like a circus, i shall occupy a modest place in history of my time. if i were to live several more years, i should probably add nothing to my existing reputation. what i could not reasonably expect any further involvement in life, such falls to a lot of old men. i know debt is the common lot, and what is universal ought not

to be deemed a misfortune, and yet, instead of confronting it with dignity and philosophy, i cling to life, and the things of life as eagerly as if i had not had my chance at happiness and gained nearly all the great prizes." >> is that when you decided to write the book -- title the book "all the great prizes"? in the john i was hay library, and named after john hay, a graduate from brown university. i was looking through the microfilm of his hand-written diaries. of course, i went to the end to see how far it went. there, in his beautiful, bold

handwriting, so distinctive i could recognize across the room, was that. >> the actual tyreke at the brown library? >> yes. >> is there any monument to him where he was born, where he lived in warsaw, where the house that he had in new hampshire? >> i believe there is something in the salem where he left when he was three. i never went there. in warsaw, ill., there are a little silhouettes of him lined up and down main street, a charming little town. his summer home, which he kept in new hampshire from the late a.d.'s until his death, is called the fells. a has been now restored as national state and conservation area, a beautiful place. i invite anyone to visit it. it is one of the great retreats

in new england. >> how long did clara, his wife, live after he died? >> another 10 years or so, devoted to her children and grandchildren. >> what happened to henry adams? >> henry adams lived through the first world war and published his great book of "the education of angry adams" which we all have to read in school. i think the book was then published. >> what happened to lizzie cameron? >> she was much younger, so she lived much longer, forgive me for not knowing the exact date. she never remarried. she lived most of her life apart from her husband in paris. along with edith wharton, another great figure of the time, helping with refugees and

more relief in the first world war in england. sure, had many other men too.ad an eye for her, i called you john toliver when we started, it looks like john taliaferro. >> my ancestors came from italy, came to virginia in the 1600's. i am sure the pronunciation got stepped on for many years. my father always used to say it means eisenhower in italian. often do people call you and john taliaferro? >> whenever i make a reservation i say, taliaferro.

they will say, my second grade teacher was named toliver. you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. >> what is next? >> i have not settled on one. i have a few. i do not want to jinx it. >> a book? >> you bet. >> the name of the book we have been talking about, "all the great prizes: the life of john hay, from lincoln to roosevelt ." our guest has been john taliaferro. thank you very much. >> thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] dvd copy of this 7726.am, call 1-877-662- for free press clips, or to give us, it's about the program, a.org.us at q-and-

podcasts.able as >> tonight on c-span, prime minister's question with british prime minister david cameron, followed by texas senator ted cruz at and i will party republican fund-raiser. and president obama's remarks on the trayvon martin case and stand your ground lost -- laws. on the next "washington journal," bob cusec looks at the congressional agenda ahead of the august recess, followed by health care editor jo lynn keenan. and tom curtis of the american water works association discusses federal spending on the country's water system and infrastructure. "washington journal" live at 7:00 eastern, here on c-span.

>> jackie was raised as her mother was the entertaining with vanessa. it was her heritage. she did it right after her administration, during the johnson years. the whole world erupted like volcanoes. we had the women who went to work and got the divorce is in demand an equal rights we had flower children and free love and free sex. it was great for the young. i missed all of that. [laughter] the whole world change. it became a wholly new concept of women. mrs. clinton today represents the new woman. >> as we continue our conversation on first ladies, social secretary to jacqueline