implementing the affordable care act. we will also discuss what is in the health-care law for the self-employed. our guest will be kate vlietstra from the national association of the self-employed. "washington journal" is next. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] this tuesday,ning july 23rd. congress is back in session and here is what we are covering in washington. the house judiciary immigration panel will hold a hearing on the status of illegal immigrants brought to the u.s. as children. look for cut -- and live coverage on c-span 3. before that, the senate health, education, labor and pension committee considers the president's new batch of nominees for the national labor relations board, part of a deal to stop senate democrats from changing the filibuster rules. live coverage on c-span 3 at 10:00 a.m..

we will begin this morning with the city of detroit and your thoughts on the federal bailout for them. what is your take? michigan residents, we want to hear from you -- let me begin with detroit's mayor who was on the sunday talk shows and was talking about the prospects of a federal bailout. [video clip] i know the president has a lot on his plate. this will add tremendously to that. we are not the only city that is going to struggle through what we are going through. there are over 100 major urban cities having the same problems we are having.

we may be one of the first. we are the largest. the way absolutely will not be the last year so, we've got to set a benchmark in terms of how to fix the cities and come back from the strategy -- from this tragedy. governor rickan the nation"n "face and he was asked the city with the city be asking for a bailout. [video clip] expect one. the state cannot be allowed the city of detroit. is not just about putting more buty in the situation better services to citizens and accountable government. what we are doing at the state -- state government and i would ask the federal government the same thing -- targeted programs with real value to citizens. one example, we are partnering with the city, state, and --eral government on taking deployable to obtain and

dollars taking some of the 78,000 abandoned structures down that have been going on for years. >> the federal government bailed out general motors and chrysler and it worked out pretty well. our you saying it is just simply not on the table? if the federal government wants to do that, it is always there option. the way i view that, i want to partner with all levels of government and focus on services to citizens. >> but you as a state official, you would not ask the federal government. >> again, i do not view that as the right answer. host: that was michigan's government -- governor saying no, he does not view as the right answer. there are questions about whether or not the president should be allowed the city of detroit. on our facebook page, alan says --

allan lamb says -- michael anderson says -- brian johnson -- matthew tweets in -- if the federal government does not bailout of detroit there will be a huge rush of munis going bankrupt. start calling in now.

host: michigan residents, we want to hear from you. what do you think? we want to get your take from michigan. here is from "the detroit free --ss" he says thisece, -- on joe biden being asked whether or not the administration will consider a bailout for the city of detroit, and he said we don't know how the federal government can help detroit. that is what he told them is nbc friday. stephen henderson writes --

host: this from "the detroit free press": the stephen henderson. scott, what do you think? is a perfectit

example of the public employee unions just completely destroying the place. it has finally come to a head. it was never going to work. you are promising people things you are never going to be able to deliver. host: talking about the pensions specifically? caller: absolutely. that is what got them so far in the hole. the public employee union members and their pensions. this let me show you "washington post" politics piece. a federal bailout. pensions not the problem, is what they say here.

host: scott, what do you think? caller: who do they own the the money to? you are saying it is not the pension -- who do they owe? let me make this point. democrats have been running that city for so long, and liberalism and democrat liberalism, just to spend, spend, spend and never

worry about the future. the future has arrived, and they are broke. i don't owe them or neither do any of the u.s. taxpayers owe them one cent. period. int: this from the piece "the huffington post" politics section. host: karo from michigan. democratic caller. caller: thank you from c-span.

i am calling from the northern part of the state. what i wanted to point out is the joint's success in the tricounty area and that part of the state is so critical -- is sot's success critical. a lot of the money gets spent throughout the state with tourism and travel and that sort of thing. host: do you think a bailout is warranted from the federal government? caller: i would not be asking for a bailout -- i do understand what people say about the history and the does go back a long way. but they've got to figure out a way. and everybody is going to have to suffer through this. but we need the city to have some modicum of success so the rest of the state can share. press"the detroit free -- excuse me, this is from "the national review" online. no bailout.

this is what they write them their piece, similar to what they were saying -- you were saying. --says

caller: i would agree with the sentiment. got key is when kevin orr there, anybody who had sense knew it was coming. it is not like companies have not emerged from bankruptcy before. we've got chrysler and gm that did it. it was chrysler's second time. if there is going to be an injection of federal dollars, it does set a precedent and it does set a poor example. you don't want other cities in the country to follow that example. we've got three other counties and cities in the united states who are going through this. so, i would agree we need to go through the process. and everyone needs to take their medicine. and we are going to buckle down and figure out ways to move forward. the mistakes were made in past. lifetime health care for retirees? you signed that deal? i want to shake that sales man's hand.

tot: according everything.com -- total municipal bankruptcy filing since 2010 reaches about 36 -- governing.com. jefferson county, alabama, harrisburg, pennsylvania. names of cities you have heard before. rand paul in politico says "no government bailout for detroit." he will strongly oppose any attempt i president obama to bailout the city of detroit if that is something the president would decide to do. , nashville,k to lv tennessee. democratic caller. all her co-for years i have been trying to get onto this particular program -- caller: i have been trying to get into this program. detroit is 80% black. it means something. all this time it has been making money be -- the workforce was moved into the city but the city

is phenomenally rich with auto factories and all the things lee iacocca and ford people, all the chairman's of the board have amassed all over the years. the whites of the end and the city but the blacks own all of these things, the 10% of the city that is left. these people cannot have that much money and power. when you go into bankruptcy -- host: what should happen? caller: what should happen, they are lining up the whole things. they will take these artifacts for little or nothing and auction them off. you do not get the full price. they make the fortunes that they amassed -- now they are making cars in tennessee. detroit has always been the foothold for black people. look at memphis, tennessee, another black city. a slave port. same for new orleans. all these cities that were black, they have money -- lining

up to take him. republicans have a line drawn out through the sand. right now we are taking and amassing -- host: to avoid selling off the art which is something officials and detroit have talked about, to avoid that, do you think there should be a federal bailout? caller: certainly there should be a federal bailout. automakers are in detroit. you bailed them out and they at generalnd look motors. bail out detroit. it will come back. the cities will come back. nothing is wrong with the cities other than the white folks have fled and they left it there. it is desolate. the place looks like a war zone. nobody is there. no money. no economy. you can do anything. the money is there they are just getting ready to sell it off and we do not know about it with our eyes closed like it is nothing. host: your point about setting -- selling. here is fox news.

the detroit institute of art, the billion-dollar collection, could it beheaded in the auction block to satisfy creditors? emergency manager told fox it is configuring whether the collection could be considered city assets that could be sold to cover the long-term debt estimated at more than $14 billion. lane field, illinois. republican caller. caller: i do not think the government should just jump in and dig them out. the detroit has a lot of problems. the fact the population has diminished does not help. it even tougher to come up with a solution. i think they need to look at solutions. i think they need to go through bankruptcy and then divvy up what is left of figure out a way to go forward from there. host: jim. wilson, north carolina.

independent caller. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. charity starts at home. i really don't understand, republicans can go and rebuild countries and rebuild afghanistan and iraqi and give to of this money to egypt help their economy out, and when it comes to countries right here -- cities) our country, we can do nothing for them. like the guy said before. we bailed out general motors and the car industry and they came back stronger than ever. i just don't understand republicans. from the free trade. it started also with republicans. i understand that bill clinton signed it but he signed it as a big partisanship -- as a bipartisanship, the same way that obama signed the extension of the tax breaks to the rich just to get something through. this has been pushed by

republicans a long time. let me finish -- very important. this was started. when you notice when george bush's father got in he used to say all the time this is the new world order, free trade will be all of this. three -- free trade will be all of this. at is what they preach. as soon as he got in, he started it. reagan really started it when he gave china the most-favored- nation status. but these people, the republicans are trying to make his country a one world order country where america is going to be the leader of the world as far as financially. host: we got that point. but what about the mismanagement of detroit's the officials? caller: the mismanagement -- and there is mismanagement in every link government. they just did not have free trade -- free trade was not the fault of detroit.

it was not the fault of detroit that congress and the republicans sent all the jobs overseas to make it a global market. andill hurt some industries help some industries. you look at the medical industry and other industries, it is helping. -- just answerr me one question. where is my bailout? print me up a million. ron says -- why did they move manufacturing out of detroit to south carolina, mexico, and china? because the unions priced them out of the market. heard president obama former car czar, steven rattner, wrote in "the new york times" about the possibility of a bailout. he says --

itbart's website -- and they say this. host: this idea on whether there should be a federal bailout for detroit. we are getting your take on that this money. let me bring you some other news as well. here is the front page of "the arizona republic" courtesy of the newseum. house citizenship pan houseeamers citizenship plan.

host: we will be covering the hearing today here on c-span around 2:00 p.m. eastern time on c-span 3. we will have coverage of that hearing. front page of "the arizona republic." "the washington post" on syria.

host: also several papers this morning reporting general dempsey provided a memo to the administration about options in syria. in a letter to senate armed services committee chairman carl levin -- the chairman who requested a, general dempsey estimated the military price tag for using u.s. troops to train and assist rebel forces from outside syria would be 500 million a year. robust said more options, including establishing a no-fly or buffering zone inside syria or containing the chemical weapons would cost at least a billion dollars a month and require ships, aircraft, and up to several thousand troops. syria. the latest from the house this week taking up a

defense appropriations bill. there is expected to be debate on the issue of syria and the nsa when that is brought up. also from overseas, here's the headline in the world news section of "the wall street journal" -- host: below that is a piece this morning from "the washington saultsabout asault intensifying in the two biggest cities. from "the financial times" this morning, this is the headline -- morsi family accuses the armed forces of it napping mohamed morsi, e.g.'s deposed president. they have not heard from him in 20 days. they are accusing the military of kidnapping him. on gun control, from "the new

york post." mayors are quitting michael bloomberg's anti-gun group. the mayors of rockford, illinois tv nashua, -- they cite the ad against politicians as reasons. slammed ther has attack ads as ineffective -- charles schumer has slammed the attack ad as an effective. -- ineffective. should there be a bailout for detroit? henry, michigan. democratic caller. where you located? -- port huron, michigan. 65 miles northeast of detroit. host: what is your view? caller: this is gentrification gone wild. white people in this area have -- detroit ever since coleman young took over back in the early 1970s.

they want to detroit and they will get it back for a penny on the dollar. let me tell you, i want everyone listening to this to know in the state of michigan has effectively been suspended. the governor of michigan has 58% of the black population in cities and municipalities all over michigan under emergency financial management. which means that they have all ofvely thrown out the elected officials that black people have elected and brought in their own people. brought in his own people. i want to piggyback on the other journalists and pundits who said that whenever there is a natural disaster throughout the united states that has happened, the troika has ponied up just like anybody else to rebuild -- likeit has ponied up just anybody else to rebuild oklahoma, hurricanes in florida.

flood victims, we help them out. now we have a little financial trouble caused by bankers, republicans. those bankers are republicans. they are not black people who have the money and the power to do derivatives and all the other things that send this country to the brink of financial collapse. and now everybody around the country -- that guy from texas they in and says, no, elected politicians that put us in this position. bankers put us in this position. we should get the funding that we have been subsidizing all of these small rural counties, all of these ears, why don't black people deserve to have their city supported and brought back? because manufacturing has thedoned at the cities of short dash of detroit and it was a plan so why people can come back and buy it for any's on the dollar. host: pensacola, florida.

republican caller. caller: i believe the financial world -- financial woes are just the tip of the iceberg and we are going to see hundreds of mourners cities across country that will be filing for bankruptcy -- hundreds of more cities across the country that will be filing for bankruptcy. it is the result of the great society. the labor unions. and greed. all rolled into one. and that is my opinion. thank you. host: to your point, "the detroit free press" has this headline. that was posted july 22, it says --

host: this is from "the detroit

free press" if you are interested in that piece about the situation in detroit. that cities saying they are not the only ones under a mountain of debt. not the only city. i the way, the front page of ," thistroit free press is what they have of the front page. of course, the news of the new prints in england but next to "$60 million project is eyed for riverfront." , a privateat story project. and the pension fund case is in court. this is what a bankruptcy judge had to say.

host: that is the latest on the bankruptcy and the possible restructuring, that whole process in detroit. we will keep taking your phone call to let me show you what else is in the news. from "the wall street journal" -- the heritage foundation and its political arm headed up i former senator jim demint, a republican. this piece by patrick o'connor says --

host: that in "the wall street journal" if you are interested. i the way, a new study put the study- either way, a new

put the cost of cyber crime as as 10 times a previously estimated amount. abortion, from "the washington times" -- a first in the nation law to outlaw -- outlaw most abortions once a fetal heartbeat can be heard around six weeks has been blocked by a federal judge in north dakota. host: that in "the washington times" this morning. that to our question -- federal bailout for detroit? jim, ohio. independent caller. caller: good morning, greta. go c-span. i was kind of up in the air until you read the managers report which put some actual numbers to it, unlock that's

unlike the republican whiny babies who just want to blame someone else. pensioners took no risk. they contributed to the fun. they are guaranteed. the state constitution says it cannot be touched. on the other hand, the bondholders take all the risk. there is no guarantee beyond the insurance, which is going to have to be paid because it is guaranteed. that is the bailout. the bondholders are going to have to take it in the butt. as for the pensioners, i think most of them would agree to a small restructuring in their pension to make up for the distance we cannot get from the are holders. that is my comment. sandusky, michigan. democratic caller. caller: i would like to make a statement first and then i would like to get out my thought. i have been waiting on the phone and i heard you read about egypt , and one or two

items about detroit. i am 83 years old. i grew up in the city of each weight -- detroit. i was born in 1930 in the city of each point. .-- detroit i went through the depression. i went through the riots that went through detroit. this city is built on people who have coverage. whether they are black, white, mexican, italian, german, polish. yugoslavia. , we have them, and we still have it in the city of detroit. detroit willth come back if the people -- and they should not sell up the art institution. if they have to give it up it should become the federal building. the federal government should becauselout detroit

they also helped put us in the hole with some of the things that they did. and republicans and democrats alike were wrong. host: let me jump in and ask you a question because you were raised there. in the city in the 1930s -- describe how it was then and how it has changed. we have seen the pictures. i want to show our viewers pictures that were on "time" magazine website. at, picture you are looking the william livingston house constructed in 1893 and the once elegant brush park neighborhood. now you can see the condition of it. riots and that there? it has changed a lot. over -- your

companies -- chrysler, different hospitals would have somebody come in, not born in the usa, coming in and take over at a ring manage the company of the first thing they is they laid off anybody that had years and years of work. in the latee back 1960s, early 1970s. they were laying off people who had worked in the building for 30 years and they wanted to get them out before they had to dash of the way the pension was set. there were a lot of things that were done wrong and a lot of things done right. and i believe, whether they are black or white, because i worked with the black people. when i grew up, my family did not like the blacks. i got along fine with them. two my best friends were black. et, she wasd margar

an artist, she drew in the art class with my husband was four years years older than i was. the other was francis hunter who was a singer. got a scholarship to three colleges because of her knowledge and her music. and that was quite a goal. blacks will do it if you give them the chance. a viewer says -- not a question if the government will bailout but a question of when. the republican house will cave. camden, connecticut. republican caller. caller: rank you for taking my call. call.nk you for taking my as far as the federal government bailing out detroit, we are the government, the people. municipality for 23 years in new haven,

connecticut. it has been a one-party system for decades. when this mayor took over in new haven, we had 21 departments. he privatized it down to six. he put all of these working people out of work, contributions from rich folk. it is not a black or white issue or a union issue or a pension issue, it is all of these progresses in this country, republican or democrat, who signed on bill clinton's new world order global economy ofeme to lower the standard living of the american people. uruguay round. this has been landing for decades. the bankers, the global lists. i am 57 years old. i can't even find a job. i have been out of work since 2010.

i watched the democratic machine privatized 17 departments. where did all of them workers go? they don't have jobs no more. -- hey do host: david, grand rapids, michigan. democratic caller. you have to go back -- i totally agree with that gentleman. nafta really screwed the state of michigan more up. companies -- when their bottom line is like their only objective to be successful, when it is all about maximizing profits, we get stuff like nafta . and i really believe it goes back to these white republicans. about maximizing profits and keeping the profits. not even putting them back into the nation, back into the companies. people talk about the prime rate going up and all of this stuff. you know what, if we had jobs,

people can work and we don't. we don't have jobs. i talked before about how people are going to buy houses if all they are doing are working at burger king? -- i shouldichigan say the republicans have been trying to get a hold of michigan for years and i really think this election cycle they might have a good foothold, and it really scared me in the sense of as much as the republicans and democrats democrats are the same, at least the democrats, they are trying to move forward. at least from what i say. yes, republicans and democrats, they can be considered the same, and yet there is no such thing as a progressive republican. there just isn't. from twitter says this -- the federal government needs to help detroit. we need ford and gm to become dominant again in the auto industry. buy american cars. other news from the front page from "the newspapers

washington post" -- that from "the washington post" this morning. and the front page of "the washington times" this morning. this one above the fold about the homeland security department. no one home at the top.

host: below that, two pieces about republicans. paul.ne about rand host: next to the that, a story about senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. his reelection push exposing fissures in tea party movement.

let's get in a couple of more phone calls about a possible edible bailout for detroit, getting your take. don in south carolina. democratic caller. i had some stuff to say but i've got to take my hat off to bernice. you talk about wisdom with age. he just defined what it means by to be a patriot. once again, the greatest generation leads the way. what she talked about was exactly right. boomers, which i am one of, should hang their head in shame when looking and reflecting on what bernie's had to say. we should all try to emulate her thoughts and beliefs, because that is the heart of true patriotism to this country.

and i greatly respect that. host: all right, i will move on to randy, but before i do, quickly from "the baltimore sun" this morning. representative don -- john conyers asked the judiciary chair bob goodlatte from virginia to express concern bankruptcy is being misused to deny workers their pensions. possible congressional hearings on the city of detroit and the filing for bank is a. randy, oxford, mississippi. republican caller. theer: i just wanted to ask people calling in, what happened to the last mayor who was in detroit? he was arrested for corruption, right? is, the whole system and that government is corrupt. and the uaw has run everyone out

of that city, and they are down in states now that have right to work, which are in the south. and they can do the labor for cheap. host: that was randy in oxford, mississippi. coming up next, we will talk to virgin islands elegant donna christensen about the congressional black caucus effort to and for minorities about the new health-care law, along with other issues. and north carolina congressman patrick will talk about the irs targeting investigation. we will be right back. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> that role of the first lady, she becomes the chief confident. she is really, in a way, the only one in the world he can trust.

so, he unloads to her, talks to her. they have all done that. they are all strong women. of course, they a company usually a strong man to where he was. mainld say that is their role, confidant to the president. series, firstl ladies, examines the public and private lives of the women and the influence of the presidency. watch the encore presentation of first ladies, from martha washington to ida mckinley, weeknights august starting august 5 on c-span. interestingly, the korean war in a sense would help the south s unify themselves in a way that was not there before. when the communists came down, they were brutal. and a lot of the south koreans turned against the communists in

the north. that sort of solidified, i think, the sense of national cohesion and identity. macarthurk general miscalculated because had he waited, it is every possible the south would have disintegrated on its own. >> 60 years after north korean troops also the 38 parallel a look at the war that never really ended. sunday night at 9:00 on "afterwords" part of book tv this weekend on c-span two. " continues.journal are back with a delicate donna christensen who represents the virgin islands, a democrat, and a member of the congressional black caucus. i want to begin with the meeting you had with the president recently and the other 43 members of the congressional black caucus to talk about policy issues.

what was on the agenda? what did you discuss? what concerns did you bring to the president? the overriding concern was addressing poverty in our country. we had for several years a 20, 30,, called 10, created by jim clyburn in conjunction with charlie rangel and maybe to other members of that would target funds -- 10% of any funding or programs or initiatives to communities that had 20% or more -- or higher poverty level for 30 or more years. other efforts to reduce poverty in our country and bring more people into the middle class was probably the overriding issue, whether it was in theng sure transportation programs that those set aside for minority and disadvantaged businesses stayed, whether it was talking about education and loans for students, which was another big

issue him a whether it was health care. it really came under eliminating poverty and providing opportunities and pathways out of poverty. host: did the president suggests what he might propose to address those concerns? guest: yes. talked, for- he example, that using a targeted approach to ss communities was a good approach. -- provisions for minority and disadvantaged business is something that to be protected. the loan issue to the students was a little more complicated, but it was a major issue or members around the table. hehink, you know, understands the need -- he has had a job agenda for six years now, almost six years now. and we have not implemented it. so, he understands the need to

create job opportunities and economic opportunity and to make sure that those communities that made the most help get the most help. so, i think he was very responsive. host: how would you describe the tone? one publication notes it has been two years since he last met with the congressional let caucus and the session lasted 90 minutes. describe the mood. -- it the mood was very was very -- there was no antagonism in the mood. year hiatus.r the 2- we met with many members of his thenet and staff over years, and there have been individual discussions with individual members of the president. very open a discussion, very friendly discussion, and really looking forward to setting the stage for the cbc and the president working very closely on issues. we don't always agree so it is very important for us to discuss more of the sensitive issues

that may be coming out of the white house or initiatives coming out of the white house before they come out, so we can collaborate more on it. of course, we discussed healthcare reform and the rollout of the provisions coming on board next year. host: and we will talk about that. but on the economy, here are headlines from "the new york times" this morning. host: president obama will be going around the country to talk about the economy. he will be at knox college in illinois this wednesday to talk about the new catch phrase, middle out. prosperity needs to come from the middle out rather than the top-down. we heard heard him use this expression the other day when richard cordray was approved by the senate to head up the consumer financial protection bureau. it is something they say the president has protested any plans to to use a lot during this economic tour. were you briefed about this?

what do you know about it? guest: i really have not heard that catchphrase before but i know the president has been very focused on providing opportunities to improve and support the middle class. because he has always believed that if we focus on the middle make and -- and we want to sure we also include the poor -- that everyone will benefit, including those at the top. i like to talk about trickle up economics rather than trickle down economics. i think it is the same concept. host: i want to show you "the washington times" this morning. their editorial page. this is what the editorial board had to say about obama's race speech on friday. he missed an opportunity to preach personal responsibility. he could have said every disappointment does not have to be viewed through the filter arrays. despite difficulties, it is is possible to grow up and become

indicate -- educated and build a good life. guest: well, the president speaks often about personal responsibility. but i think he took this opportunity to bring a certain sensitivity to this issue that people who are not african americans may not have. , ando show the other side to try to bring more understanding to the reaction that we are having to the killing, the judicial process and the verdict. always --esident has sometimes has been criticized for emphasizing personal responsibility. so, i think that is a very

unfair criticism about -- of the president. host: i will bring in some of our callers here and get back to some of the other issues in a bit. but bill is up first. massachusetts. republican caller. morning,ood congressman -- excuse me, congresswoman. yes. i would just like to ask encouragement if she has seen the villa o'reilly talking points from last night -- bill o'reilly talking points from last night. host: your point? theer: you have to watch bill o'reilly. not enough time to describe it. he said it all last night. about everything you just talked about. points.ch those talking host: bobby is next from different, illinois. independent caller. caller: how are we doing today? i was just wondering if the

delegate could answer a couple of questions for me. divided the race country -- it is becomingwider wondering ifand am it has something to do when we have titles and names like black caucus. if there was a part of congress called the white caucus, there will be such an upward. on top of that, with the george zimmerman trilemma tragic death of trayvon martin, is we keep hammering about it in the press about it being a race issue, that it was black-and-white. george zimmerman is actually hispanic with african-american, he is biracial. it seems like we are taking advantage of every opportunity we can to make race an issue, to areasbout disenfranchised and groups and try to seek financial help for them using

race as a key driving point. guest: we would wish that race -- not an issue and that like the congressional black tocus did not have to exist address issues of inequity that are based on race and ethnicity. also poverty. was on the the cbc floor doing bestial orders and c rangle said to one of the younger members of new york that doing special orders and charlie rangle said to one of the younger members of new york that -- he was they did not need to. it is the responsibility to all americans to address them. host: let's talk about your status and congress. to u.s. caller referred congressmen are archives woman. you are a delicate.

thet: i am sure everyone in this act of columbia's familiar but delegates represent the telik torry -- the territory. we vote in committee and hold committee positions and we can share subcommittees and even committees -- it is possible for a delegate to chair a committee but mostly subcommittees but we do not vote in final passage. when democrats are in the 1992, i woulde believe, we have been able to vote in committee of the whole. as we can vote in committee, i think it is just an extension of that to be able to vote in a committee on the whole and be able to vote on amendment to that shape the final passage, even we did not vote on final passage. host: you are serving in your ninth term representing the virgin islands. what are the top issues for your constituents? guest: top issues -- energy

issues. we have the highest per kilowatt cost for energy in the entire united states. i believe alaska may be higher, but the state subsidizes them down to a certain level. so, our residential customers and50.8 cents per kilowatt our businesses about $.54 per kilowatt, and that is five times the national average. energy is a major, major issue. host: can you explain why? are 100% dependent on diesel, and it is true for almost all of the territories with the exception of puerto rico which has already begun to diversify its energy sources. we are working right now to change that. we are islands, and we have an abundance of sunshine. so, we are using some solar. and we are also getting ready to transition to propane and later

on to natural gas, which is really the ultimate goal. the logistics of getting the liquefied natural gas to the territory and storage in all of that would delay our ability to reduce the cost to our consumers. probably by this time next year we expect to be utilizing more cocaine as well as solar -- .ropane as well as solar but right now we are totally dependent on diesel. host: the jobless rate? guest: the jobless rate in the territory as some where around 12%. st. croix is where we have the highest jobless rate because our largest private employer, the oil refinery, closed the last year, early last year. and the job losses and the ripple effect through the community, coupled with the highest call -- higher cost of

energy because they provided diesel to our utility at a lower cost. so, the increased cost has really -- devastated the st. croix community and had an impact across the entire territory. host: what is the economic picture of st. croix and other cities of the virgin islands? we were talking earlier about thecity of detroit and mismanagement and filing for bankruptcy and the possible federal bailout. guest: we have been experiencing ame shortfalls and we have deficit that is a little over $1 billion. the government of the virgin islands has responded with across-the-board cuts that have been restored. they were in place for two years. some layoffs, reductions in operating costs -- it has been a difficult couple of years even

before the closing of the refinery, but since the closing, it has been worse. tourism andlot on tourism has remained fairly stable. there has been some ups and downs, but it has been stable. host: from twitter -- what is the crime rate now -- st. thomas was the worst, now is it st. croix? guest: i think they are about equal. the overall crime rate for the virgin islands is high. the vuerto rico and us in addressworking hard to it, and where you have a high poverty level and joblessness there is a fair amount of hopelessness and that contributes to host: --

contributes. host: donna. massachusetts. republican caller. caller: i would like to know if reverseblicans could the law of healthcare obama. they are trying to defund that. they cannot do that. guest: we are up to our 38th try. it is a practicing futility. we knew when we passed the affordable care act that we work need to continue to on improving it, has he did with medicare, advocated, and even act, but weghts have not been able to do that because the other side of the

aisle has been intent on repealing instead of continuing to work to make that bill better than it was when we passed it and the president signed it. that bill has been a great asset to people across the country, even in my own district, with a number of young people that have been able to stay on their parents insurance until the age of 26. it has had a positive impact across our country. the fact that our children who have asthma or diabetes, they cannot beat it -- denying -- they cannot be denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition. somewhereve had between $600 and $700 in discounts on prescription drug costs. the preventive care without co- pays, the rebates the

president's open about -- -- the president spoke about -- in my district, we had 1.6 million in rebates, almost $500 per person. it is a little lower this year. insurance companies have come into compliance, but across the country, i think about 12 million people have had rebates from the insurance companies because of the law and i am sure that money came in handy. from here is a headline "politico." you are part of this tour. explain that, and what are the most frequent questions you get about the health-care law? healthi have also shared for the congressional black caucus for the last 15 years.

we have been involved in the affordable care act before its creation, through its creation, its passage and implementation. we know insurance is critically important, but it is not enough for our communities. many of our communities have been left out of the healthcare mainstream forever. we want to make sure the benefits of the affordable care act are extended to every community in the country and we know in some cases our communities do not get information information and we began last saturday in the virgin islands in st. croix. it was well-attended. people have question on -- questions on what will be our focus -- the exchanges, especially "what is an exchange?" we had a great time in the virgin islands. we're moving to chicago,

illinois, then oakland, then miami, dallas, texas, las vegas, maryland,d baltimore, and hopefully, we'll be able through our foundation to find funding to continue this, but the democratic caucus and department of health and human services is also doing a lot of outreach. the questions are around the exchange and how to access that exchange. h: the show you a survey that was done and the numbers that came out on the fines for uninsured americans. it is from gallup. fines, 43%re of the are unaware, and when you look at the penalties

a revisione is also to have that waived in cases of hardship. i am not totally familiar on how the hardship is determined, but penalties can be avoided if hardship can be proved. people do not know about the penalties, but what individuals and families are more interested in is how they get this insurance coverage. host: graham in mississippi. republican caller. graham, you are on the air. thank you for waiting. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: i am watching your program, and i want to say it does not matter if you are black or white, but you cannot continue spending any more money

than you are making, and that is what is wrong with all of these cities. politicians and union leaders thispromised these people money, not knowing where it is coming from. we cannot continue to spend more money. look at any city, any country. look at italy, wherever. that is a basic problem. ?ost: delegate christensen guest: i'm sure when the black caucus meeting -- meets tomorrow -- and you are right, you have to live within your means, but we will be looking at how detroit got to where it is. conyers is a member of the congressional black caucus. we have been discussing it with other members.

did the state not due to avoid this, and what did it do to help precipitated, and what is their responsibility to the trade, and what is the federal government's responsibility? higher -- timean spent on your wants to -- congressman conyers wants to look into the risk. willdo you think the cbc say on bankruptcy and what is your opinion of a federal bailout for detroit? i think it is unlikely. government did not city.t new york

it was bailed out by new york state. philadelphia was not held up by the federal government. i think the district of columbia is a unique situation. we have to look at what is the state responsibility, and what can the federal government to to be of assistance -- due to be of assistance, but i am not sure that a bailout is what is going to happen unless it comes with a lot of restrictions and a position of federal authority, but detroit is not the district of columbia. host: do you think the congressional black caucus at large shares that analysis that you are giving, and as a group would not call for a bailout? guest: i really cannot speak -- to it,itish to it,

because i have only had a chance to speak to a few members, but after tomorrow, our chairwoman will be able to answer that for you. we want to trace saved. it is an important city -- detroit saved. it is an important city for the rush the black caucus. it is a largely black city. we are very interested in how detroit can be helped, whether it includes federal help for state help. we want to see the trade survive and thrive again. host: maryland. independent caller. pollen. caller: good morning. my question relates to the statehood. there has been a suggestion that perhaps the virgin islands would join puerto rico as a state.

what would her opinion be of that, and does she think there might be a possibility of the virgin islands gaining more representation or autonomy in the future? do not think many version islanders or any would want to the subsumed under puerto rico as part of their state. suggested by a few, but i do not think that is a real possibility and it is not one that i would support. i support whatever the people of puerto rico decide for themselves. do i anticipate the virgin islands would have more autonomy ? we have been working on, for example, our own constitution. the virgin islands is one of the territories that have not adopted a constitution yet, and as we continue we expect there would be more autonomy, but the people in my territory have not decided on any particular

direction that a change in political status would take. gary on twitter -- bona fide residents of the virgin islands to not pay taxes to the federal government, they pay directly to the virgin islands government. do they receive federal benefits? guest: yes, they do. it is correct. .e utilize the u.s. tax code we receive federal benefits, not to the extent that the states do . for example, our medicaid is cap. there is a specific formula set aside for the territories which we share among ourselves, depending on population size, and sometimes based on need. , and we do getes federal benefits, but not at the

level that states and the district of columbia's do -- just to the columbia does. host: do you know how much federal aid is received? guest: off the top of my head, i do not. host: can you give us a ballpark? the budget is around $1 billion. around $800 million of that is general fund. some of that is taxes. wherever there are tax credits or reductions in taxes, that also reduces our revenue around1 billion. base, -- earnede income tax credit, child care tax credit, tax credits for the small businesses coming with the affordable care act -- we give those to our constituents. then, there is federal funding

that is probably another $200 million to $250 million, and then there them is funding thats from some of the other local programs that we have. host: danville, illinois. charlie. independent caller. caller: just a couple of comments -- one on the trayvon martin case. how can someone claim self- defense when they get out of their car when they are told not to get out of the car by the police, and then the cost someone walking into an area, even if it is a closed area, confront them and say it is self-defense. i do not understand that. is the crux of what is creating a lot of the demonstrations that you are seeing. it is a question many of us have to answer. what we see is a young man

walking home and dean followed, and under -- and being followed, and under those circumstances, being followed in a place with not many people around, i see a scared, young teenager, and i share your question. how does that become self- defense? host: kyl in memphis, tennessee. caller: my question is to the delegate -- i am not too familiar with the exchange and who will govern it, and also some of the pros and cons. guest: the exchange is basically a marketplace or insurance. it is a place or an entity where private insurance companies .ould offer insurance policies the basic services that those policies would provide to their subscribers would be determined by the secretary of health and

human services, so there will be a basic package of services and wouldthree levels that change based on premiums and co- pays. the basic level would be the same, except the top level, where you could get, i think it is called the platinum plan, where you could add additional services. the benefit of the exchanges being able to have a place where you can go and have a set package of services, but also where subsidies can be provided for those premiums depending on your income level. subsidies would be provided from the 100 or va percent of -- 138% of poverty, and it would increase as you get into higher percentages of poverty. there is help with your premium, a basic set of services that

would be provided, and it would be comprehensive, set by the secretary, and it is a way that people who are not now insured will be able to access affordable and comprehensive health care coverage. host: what is your reaction to this june 2013 gallup pole -- when asked reasons for not purchasing insurance the top three reasons are the first 2 -- cannot afford unemployed much, and -- what does that tell you about the challenges of rolling out the health-care law? guest: we are trying to make it more affordable and assisting individuals and families in paying those remains. our hope -- premiums.

our hope is that for anyone that finds insurance coverage unaffordable, that it will become affordable. many of them will be covered by medicare expansion. i fail to say in the answer to the exchanges that states can set up their exchange, and if they do not, the federal government will set it up for them. and thee 18 states district of columbia that are establishing their own exchanges. there are states that are not planning to have medicaid expansion. illinois just yesterday agreed to have medicaid expansion, but i do not remember how many thees now are providing medicaid expansion, but for those states where there is medicaid expansion there will be a significant number of people who are not employed or whose income is too low to purchase insurance that will be covered by medicaid expansion.

we still hope, and i know the secretary, the white house, and many of us in congress are continuing to encourage those states that are not accepting medicaid expansion to do so because as kaiser and others have looked at it, there is often savings and they are not and additional expenditures are minimal. the number, the expansion is 100% paid by the federal government for the first three years. host: barbara is next in missouri. caller: good morning. i would like to point out something about george zimmerman. he called himself a white male to the doctors office. people stopped calling him something else.

that is what he thinks he is. the article you read about the president should have been lecturing black youth i'm not going down the wrong -- about not going down the wrong path. what did trayvon martin do that was wrong? why is it assumed you did something wrong and therefore deserved to die? this memberd to ask of the black caucus is what are you doing to represent people like me -- a 62-year-old black woman that has seen all kinds of weism in the country, and see the country supporting wars around the world, killing people around the world, and the money comes up for that, though we claim poor people and sick people -- blame poor people and sick people for needing our help. we are americans. we should help americans. thank you.

guest: on the war issue, if you look at the votes of the congressional black caucus you will probably find more individuals that voted against funding for war. every year,budget that i can say without fear of contradiction, is the best budget on the floor of the house. it reduces defense spending in some areas, but it would provide more funding for housing, education, health care, economic development, job creation, than any other budget, and while doing that it still reduces the budget. on the issues arising out of the trayvon martin case, we are working with the justice department. we are urging the justice department to take a look at it. we are looking at what laws can be introduced to help to avoid these kinds of instances.

our -- ourll of us representatives of district in different states and they are working with state legislators on legislation in their respective states. we have always been concerned about violence across our communities and on friday chicago will begin a series of discussions with our communities on crime in our communities -- the day today crying that -- the day-to-day crime that occurs. we have long been proponents of prevention. act introduced by congressman scott has been pushed to the last four or five congresses. we are pushing for our to have the resources to create their own programs to use gun violence and provide opportunities for

our young people. avid, unrelenting supporters of social security and medicare. you said you were 62. oppose anything that would weaken your benefits or change the program in any significant way that would reduce eligibility for individuals. so, i could go on and on about cbc is doing to help really,all americans, only to have a website and our foundation has a website and now it -- and i would encourage you to visit it and there are opportunities to ask questions, and if we are in your community on our healthcare tour, please join us. host: we have five minutes with donna christiansen. greensboro, independent caller.

morning. caller: my name is edith. aids, and i know a lot of my friends have aids. what are you doing to help us get rid of this disease and medicare and medicaid, and a lot of us have diabetes along with this, and you cannot get both because they really, only to have a website and our foundation has a website and now it cost about $200. every year andng we walk every year to have money to find a cure. host: edith, you are breaking up. i'll let you go and have delegate christensen respond. think you'llot find any stronger advocates for people with hiv or aids and the

congressional black caucus. i can begin with maxine waters, barbara lee. as leaders in that area we created a minority aids under president clinton, and have increased funding to help organizations reach out in the community to assist persons with aids. we try to ensure that our communities and women in particular are given the resources are given the resources they need -- resources they need. the majority of people on the aids assistance drug program are minorities and we have been advocating for that program for a long time to get rid of some waiting lists on which some

people have actually died. barbara lee was able to make sure the u.s. could for the first time host the national eight conference by removing the ban on travel for people that are hiv-positive. you have no stronger advocates, but not only advocates, the legislators that have created programs to help our communities that we know are hard hit by this epidemic. host: is that the case in the virgin islands? guest: yes, we have a relatively 100,000 and i per worked in a clinic before coming here and i remember when we had hardly any medication. we had to send folks back to the states to get the treatment they need, but now we do not have a waiting list. we have some grants for

community-based organizations to provide support for people with hiv and aids. we do a lot of screening and outreach. back, 17 years later, we have been a tremendous -- there has been a tremendous improvement in treatment and, also, acceptance. -- is a lot less than it was when i was practicing. a quick take on "washington times" editorial -- a threat to voting rights. they say jim crow is dead and a idrite should exempt state permits. what is your reaction? guest: anything that needs a rewrite -- there are states that

.ere not included originally anything that impedes the or createsanybody barriers of any kind, for any american, to exercise the very there --ht to not be it ought to be prohibited, or at least have some oversight by the justice department. , at: delegate christensen life of coming back to our table and talking to our viewers. guest: thank you. host: next we will talk to later amchenry, and look at the impact of the new health-care law and taxes on the self-employed in this country, the first a news update from c- span radio. >> it is 8:29 a.m. eastern time.

ase violence in egypt today six people were killed in clashes over supporters -- in clashes between supporters and opponents of the ousted president, mohamed morsi. the military ousted morsi on july 30 following days of massive protest. in washington, a coalition of tea party conservatives and liberal democrats have secured votes on amendments to a defense bill that see to limit secret u.s. surveillance programs and require congressional approval of a plan to help syrian rebels. a debate begins today on the bill.600 billion live coverage on c-span at 10:00 a.m. eastern. democrat michele knight says she for a seat vacated by

republican senator saxby chandler. she becomes the first democrat to enter the race. on the republican side, u.s. representative paul broun and jack kingston, along with former secretary of state karen handel have entered the race. the senate begin their day at 10:00 a.m. eastern time. watch live senate coverage on c- span two. those are the latest headlines on c-span radio. --the role of the first lady she becomes the chief confidant. she is, in a way, the only one in the world he can trust, so he unloads to her, talks to her. they have all done that. woman, asll strong they have accompanied usually a strong man to where he was. i would say the main role is confidant.

>> our original series "first ladies -- influence and image" examine the private lives of these women and their impact on the presidency. watch, starting august 5 on c- span. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome back patrick mchenry, the public and of north carolina -- republican of north carolina. welcome back. that may be the irs targeting investigation of conservative groups and the latest on that. chairman darrell issa has been critical of the justice department's investigation into what the irs was doing. operating -- cooperating? guest: the doj has not been

fully cooperative in any respect. they have done an audit, but that is not an investigation. they are not asking the second,third and forth questions you need to asked -- be asking. we have an ongoing investigation with the ways and means committee in the house. we are not getting the cooperation we need from the department of justice and it does not look like they are taking an aggressive stance in getting to the bottom of this. we are not sure why, but many of us have thought process that perhaps politics was at play, as it has been at play with the department of justice under the obama administration since the beginning. host: what is in your arsenal to make the doj cooperate and take the next step? pushingake sure we keep to get the documents that we

need from the irs, get to the bottom of the documents that we have that we are currently working through at the staff level, and get through the interviews that we have had. we have had a significant number of interviews in the last three or four weeks for the oversight and government reform committee. that will continue. we have a lot of work to do ourselves. as we get real production in getting to the heart of the matter, i think the department of justice will get on the stick and follow. as thee have heard hearings have continued the said liberale groups were also highlighted by irs and the conservatives

are not talking enough about that, and that through the committee's irs and the conservs are not talking enough about that, and that through the committee's investigation, you have found out that this really was in ohio, the cincinnati office -- that people in washington were not fully aware nor did they give the order for cincinnati to be doing that? guest: what we do know is lois lerner was involved. we know the office of legal counsel was informed. what we do not know is if the chief counsel new about this. our hearing last week, what we came to find out, was that an individual was overseeing the 40 years ofd 30 to experience and was replaced by somebody that was junior and very new to the irs and he questioned superiors about his removal from these cases. we do not know where that they call came from -- play call came from. washington was informed. the question is where did the play call come from and we have not gotten to the bottom of that, oh a we are dealing with, and what chairman darrell issa is dealing with, is a ranking

democrat, elijah cummings, who is very intelligent, capable, and a strong partisan in his own right. he declared about a month ago that this case was closed, so it is difficult to say we are not compliant with talking about liberal groups that were targeted. it is very clear through the dramatic vast jordy of these cases -- it is very clear, though, that the dramatic vast majority of these cases were targeted at tea party groups. wilkins, is william and what role did he play in this? guest: i do not have the fast answer for you. counsele agency's chief . i am asking because of this headline in "the washington post."

dubbed "tea party cases." guest: again, we are finding new things out every day in this investigation, and there is a lot that we do not know. this is new information. the real questions are in terms of our document request, the e- and chains, the phone calls interviews -- do they say the same thing that has been written in the newspaper? we have to get to the bottom of that. this case is far from closed. it will take time to get the documents commencement with conclusions -- comments written with conclusions. those conclusions

without the facts, we have to make sure we have the facts. host: is it worth the money spent, because as you said it will continue for weeks and maybe a long time? when yous, especially have the american people looking andhis agency, the irs, concluding they are politically motivated. i do not want the conclusion to be that they were politically motivated. the conclusion i would like to find is that presidential appointees were not involved, and that this was just a mistake , but the facts, as we are building out the documents and going through them and interviews, we are finding something very different, which is deeply concerning. when american people think they should live in fear of their government, that is a very disturbing and problematic thing.

i would like the conclusion of the case to be one of this management rather than malice, but, so far, we have a lot more to do. lois lerner -- back to that point -- has a long-running history in washington, a lot of connections, and she has said she will not talk for fear of incriminating herself. that raises some questions to this member of congress. host: let's hear from callers. brian in medicine, ohio, democratic caller. good morning. congressman mchenry, this is comical. you are blatantly going after the president of the united states. your party is a joke. you are not getting any work done for the american people at all. all you can do is vote down the

health-care law, which i have actually turned about and i agree with that one part. you spend more money on hearing than you -- hearings do helping the american people, and the problem i have is we could use smaller government if we had ethical businessman. we do not. host: we will take that point. congressman? guest: it is a fair point. if we had a better run government, people could have a higher level of trust. a better run government would cost us less. it sounds like you and the idea of tearing down this massive government in washington is important. in that regard, i would say you have a lot to agree with with republicans. the fact is, in the house of

representatives, we are driving good policy. simplyu talk about voting down the president's health care plan, i think history will prove us right. i voted against the president's health care plan, not because i did not think we need healthcare reform -- we obviously seriously and sincerely do, but the fact that we are now living under as law of the land is a deeply flawed piece of legislation. so, in the house, just last week, we produced two separate votes. one agreed with the president's plan to delay the business mandate under obamacare, but we also went a second step. rather than simply agreeing with the president that you exempt big business or moderate sized businesses but leave the mandate on the individual, we also

delayed for one year the implementation of the individual mandate. now, what i want is for repeal of obamacare, but in the meantime, if we can simply delay the pain for another year, i think that is a beneficial thing when we are talking about our economy and the choppy job starts we have had in uncertain times to the point where the president is giving another speech on the economy again today. look, we are trying to find areas where we can work with the president. we also, about one month ago in the house, produced a student loan bill. rather than allowing student loan rates to go up dramatically, we put in place some reforms -- not enough, in my opinion, but some reforms. we will have a bipartisan agreement with the senate. the senate produced a bill last week on this. my hope is in the next week or two we can have a bill on the president's desk that fixes

student loans for the next couple of years, and that is positive. those are examples. we will have major difference on obamacare between a conservative approach and this administrations liberal approach. host: here is "the baltimore sun" on healthcare. you can try to get credit 2014, claim up to half of the premium of expenses of coverage purchased at the state or federal exchanges. a good thing? guest: sure. when you have a complex law that has 2000 pages, you will get something right, but the reason why they have these subsidies in their is because what they have

done with the mandatory minimum insurance plan is increase the cost for the average american. we see this state-by-state right like- the idea that if you your plan, you can keep it, it is simply not working out that way. you are saying the minimum plans change and they are being raised significantly. not that i disagree with more options or the idea that you have a computer exchange of information -- that is a beneficial thing as well for price discovery reasons, but what it is doing in states across this nation is you are seeing the basic plan -- for the basic plan, a doubling of rates. upe individuals see rates go 400%, and that is disturbing. that is what i am concerned about, affording healthcare, not just the question of subsidies.

host: big, ohio. republican caller. caller: hello, mr. mchenry. guest: i. -- hi. caller: i am a republican, but i am embarrassed about the way we are doing things. when will we start doing work? you guys cry about things, but you are not doing any work. get something done for the american public. thank you. guest: thank you. lot., i hear about this a i agree to run for this position. i do not cry about it. you do not hear complaints from me. we, in fact, do work. it is not a popular thing to say -- worked get done by politicians -- but we are working harder to come up with better outcomes, but, chuck, do you want us to simply submit to

forpresident for his plan taxes and spending, health care, his view of national defense, or do you want us to articulate a conservative position and find compromise where we can, which is principled compromise? that means i do not go counter to my principles just to get a deal done. therefore, simply vote to raise taxes just because a president wants it, or nationalized healthcare, like the president has done -- those are things that i would not comply with, so what we are trying to do is hold this administration to account and deal with them on important policy may -- measures, on student loans, as i mentioned, for instance, on areas where we can agree, and that is what i'm trying to be about. host: lewis in pikesville, maryland. independent.

to ask yes, i would like representative mchenry, does he not think the investigation of the tea party from the irs would help the republican party more than the democratic party because the tea party wanted to audit the federal reserve, make the banks pay for fraud, how they represented -- misrepresented mortgage rates, and might be instrumental in helping to destroy detroit because many of the blacks had to pay higher interest rate and now the united inc. of switzerland is being fined for selling bogus notes. why would he not look in this because i think the tea party was more threatening to the republicans, because they would

attack many of your main supporters. host: congressman? guest: very creative in your it isch, but i think relatively absurd, your construct. i supported ron paul and voted to audit the federal reserve and hold them responsible for monetary policy and regulatory agenda. when you talk about big financial institutions -- i serve on the financial services committee, and you look at this administration, and they have not taken legal action against the very groups that you have talked about that have done wrong. where is the criminal case of fraud coming out of the financial crisis? there has been none from eric holder and the department of justice, and that is deeply disturbing.

you have seen the sec take some action in their capacity as a regulator, but not to the extent of what you are talking about. when you paint with a broad canh like that, look, you come to those conclusions if you get very creative, but the facts are very different. when you look at the tea party, it was really about limited government, making sure you rein in government, born out of the president's legislative agenda, primarily his approach to healthcare, and that is why i have folks come out at my town hall meetings and speak locally about this in 2009, -- vocally about this in 2009 and they still have the same concern. they want to see a limited government, not an expensive one that they have to live in fear of, which is currently what we are contending with, i believe. host: the caller mentioned the city of detroit. did you vote for tarp?

guest: no, i did not. host: we were asking viewers earlier on if there should be a federal bailout for detroit, and some said they bailed out the banks. you think there should be a bailout for detroit, and would that be something congress could vote would -- would have to vote on, or would the president be able to do it on executive order? guest: no, there is no way the president could do it, and i would oppose bailing out any city or state. their responsibility to be fiscally responsible. it is disturbing what has happened to a great american city, with a huge manufacturing base and what has happened is very sad, but it is much deeper than trying to get a bailout. it is a question of overly generous pension obligations,

public employee unions driving up the cost of government providing basic service to their people. host: what about the banks and the role they play, the bondholders? , and the roleders they play, whether it is greece, or the united states, or a municipality, they are doing it they stun risk, -- based on risk, and apparently the higher interest detroit was paying was appropriate since they were going into bankruptcy. the riskier the regime, the more costly it will be, whether it is a financial institution, an individual or municipality. tarp,back to the banks, the bailouts -- i oppose this because it is a slippery slope. one group ofout folks and not another, you have the government picking winners and losers.

that is what i saw out of the financial crisis. it leads to the same question -- if you bailout one group, why not tell them all out, and that is why i opposed tarp -- the moral hazard involved in this and how it leads to greater and more deeply flawed policy. host: bonnie, middleton, new jersey. democratic caller. caller: good morning. here reallyscandal comes down to the citizens united decision that created effect,ue because in establish that only one authority could regulate 501(c) fours and that was the irs. fours -- before, 501(c) fours only dealt with

social welfare organizations. after that, it became political. any government -- company can buy our government. in addition, the irs was like all public workers -- they were cut back, and their staff was limited, so fewer people were going through an influx of applications that were mind- boggling, so what you do -- you go after titles that have to do with politics like tea party. what a surprise? in all of this nonsense, the only group denied was a woman's group, a democratic group trying to get women into congress. so i do not know what all of this hoopla and investigation at the cost of the taxpayers is for. host: bonnie, i will leave it there and have the congressman respond. guest: bonnie, i appreciate your question, and i understand your

perspective, but the facts are different than what you purported that they are. the irs did not receive cutbacks, and the irs has, for a significant amount of years, approved 501(c) four, 501(c) three, and they are in the approval process when it comes to our tax code. that is not new. politics, it appeared, and did enter into this. when you talk about your belief on citizens united, that is, obviously, your perspective, but it did not lead to a dramatic change in terms of the irs's roll. that is a very different issue altogether. what we are talking about these issues, when you have a small group that applies to the irs for a tax status and it takes two years for you to hear anything from them, right?

that is delaying justice -- given a yes or a no in a timely manner, but two years has nothing to do with staffing levels and a lot to do with politics. that delay is at the crux of this. you cannot operate -- small institutions cannot operate for fear of government reprisals and irs reprisals. that is what we saw out of this thing. if you are one of those groups delayed for two years on receiving your tax status, you would be frustrated and i think you would have a slightly different perspective than you currently do. lernerou mentioned lois pleading the fifth at the hearing, and this tweet -- has any movement made to offer the slowest learner immunity from federal prosecution? guest: no.

we have to get further into the investigation to actually see what is at stake here. when we entered into this investigation, we did not know very much. we are two months in. it takes a lot of time to get data, e-mail chains and to do interviews. so far, we have thousands of pages of documents and we are working through those. it is a physical effort to go through those documents. host: would you support the idea of giving her immunity? guest: not at this point. i do not know enough about what her role was, so if we offer her immunity and find out she has done mr. been an egregious things, we would regret that. disturbing and egregious things, we would regret that. , cincinnati, ohio.

caller: yes, i host a radio show, and i want to know if we could study a tax system, and could we trust the irs to properly implement the healthcare? your last question on question is no, and your former on a simpler tax code -- absolutely. when youd -- you defang the irs, absolutely. we can put in place reform to attack the taxpayer against the irs capacity, the or end the irs, and my choices to end them and have a fairer, simpler tax code and we could not have an agency picking

winners and losers. i appreciate your call, ken. jeff, missouri. jeff, missouri. independent caller. caller: i have two positions. i am a physician. i think mr. hall deserves a medal. i hope you get this is lois lerner and mr. wilkins in front of your committee. myave many geriatrics in practice, and they are worried about the affordable care act. the democrats say the republicans never came up with an alternative. senator tom coburn had terrific some ideas watched that senator harkin had. all of the democrats, one

senator tom coburn proposed it, the democrats were looking at it. there are some ideas out there. i wish you good luck on the irs, and i hope you do not let it fall off. of tranquility wants to know this -- what impact does it have on groups if you delay 501 status? could it affect in photo voters were delay elections? guest: absolutely. the major question is why do we not find out about this a year ago, and why was investigation delayed, because we are two so, yes, i do think the delaying of a small group rather than large group, that prevents them from taking any action. you think of a community group

trying to raise money for a softball field in the health- and 5013c.m youcannot do that until have an irs letter stating you can be won. the longer it is delayed, the surer opportunity you have for delaying actions. likewise for the group that orted to educate voters educate individuals or tried to make sure people go to the polls and participate in the process. host: let me talk about housing with you. let me tell the viewers. this phases out the vma and freddie mac over five years. increases the minimum down payment requirement from 3.5% to 5% for all non up first-time

far worse. the legislation establishes a credit risk sharing program 10ween faa covering at least percent of agencies new businesses each year. critics of this say if fully implemented, this would lead to significantly higher mortgage rates. guest: that is simply not the case. first of all, what this bill does is take on an issue that was not brought up during the dodd-frank regulations. danny and friday, the largest of the housing , whentization programs

they are profitable they kicked money off to shareholders and what they lost a great deal sums of money, they become nationalized. taxpayer, arend the ones that support them. that is the high dollar amounts, high water marks. what we're trying to do is first make sure that never happens they have to allow the taxpayer. federaldo is reform the home loan administration, the fha, back to the original purpose was -- which is to help low-income and first-time borrowers and do that very well to focus in on the mission. that is very important. those reforms are very necessary. finally, we get rid of some of the mess created out of dog- -- dodd-frank that will

drive up the cost of mortgages. marc sandy talked about a k zandi, talkedr about the provision driving of mortgages by 1-4% total. meaning one additional interest- rate point on your mortgage. what he said is the change we have to fannie mae and freddie mac could raise mortgage .25%.st rates by 0.07 to first of all, we eliminate the provisions that will drive up the cost of mortgages and put in place reforms that cut off in may and freddie mac from the taxpayers. all told, a better policy and cheaper to get mortgages under this bill than not. that is important to note.

these are his numbers. host: what are the prospects of this getting house in -- passed in the house and senate? guest: we have great unity. the financial-services committee chairman has worked very well with all members to incorporate ideas into the legislation. we will have a strong vote of the financial services committee. i think we will look at september or october for it to come to the floor. i think we pass this bill. likewise we will see movement in monthnate in the past with to bipartisan bills over there. i think we can get to a conference committee than simply allowing the nationalized institutions to keep drawing upon the taxpayer. of thefront page washington"journal" --

guest: it is really a shame. impact we'rews the having on this generation getting out of school and trying to find a job and trying to get reasonable housing for themselves and be free and clear of their parents. parents who are watching and listening need to think of that, too. you need to get your kids out of your house and we need better economy for that to happen. so what we have put together in this act and what is included is for the fha to get back to helping first-time home buyers and to make sure the 30-year fixed-rate mortgage is an option

for those individuals, there is a lot of debate about this, and the accusation is if fixed the mortgage, which is a search. these financial products can exist without the government being on the hook for it or the financial institution of sorts to securitized these things. host: democratic calller from indiana. caller: the irs scandal, it is a shame it is like it is. they should not target anybody. the real scandal goes back to 2001-2003 when the republicans controlled everything in the were the average person pays $300 and the corporation does not pay

anything. as a matter of fact, the president of the chamber of commerce on his web site after 2003 said there was much upside to offshore jobs. the 2001 andms of 2003 tax rate changes, the vast majority dealt with individuals. the rate cut in 2001 only dealt with individuals and not corporate income tax. you bring up a corporation that you say does not pay income tax. it is not because they do not live under our walls. the fact of the matter is they do live under our laws and take advantage of every provision of the tax code. rather than complain about a individual or an that takes advantage of the tax laws, we need to change the laws. we need a simpler, fairer tax

system for individuals and corporations. when you have warren buffett taking advantage of every loophole in the tax law and paying less than average americans duke, it shows you how deeply fall the tax system is. what we need to do in congress is reform the tax code. that means lower rates. that is all set for getting rid of the loopholes and provisions. tax all iseneficial another person's loophole. it is all in the eyes of the beholder on whether or not it is beneficial or a wasteful loophole. host: congressman patrick mchenry. also, the chairman of the financial-services the oversight and investigations subcommittee.

patrick next in south carolina. republican lawyer. -- calller. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think i am speaking for the majority of the american people, we do not trust you all. our congress continues to allow departments to waste millions and billions of dollars and then you come in after the fact, and you'd never get our money back. with porkaws spending in it. you are still not looking after the american people. i think i am speaking for the majority, congress needs to change the way you are doing business. we do not feel like you all are protecting us, you are protecting yourself. quit wasting our money.

thank you, pat. as a set in the beginning, most americans live in fear of our government. that is not the way it should be. the reason i ran for congress is to make a more efficient, washington that is less interested in our daily lives. that means less spending in washington and washington doing fewer things but doing things it does very well. when you say you people in washington, i hear this quite a bit. we are not all the same here. we do not all have the same political perspective. paint with a broad brush, when you talk to individuals, we have some very well meaning individuals on the house and senate side. we're not all the same. people and listen

to people that say things like you said this morning, it pains me, because this is not the way we should view our government. the fact is that people have left chest -- less trust in their government now than ever before. that ando fix like -- reform our ways in washington. many of us are trying to do that. in --emma tweets jumping all over the place. headline --as this do you support him to head up the housing agency? guest: we disagree on our approach to housing policy. i have served with him for the past five terms. he has been years since 1992. i think he is a very intelligent, very capable person

but approach to federal housing policy i think is deeply flawed. i have served with him on the house financial-services committee. we see these policies very differently and i think it would be costly to the american taxpayer if he got through the senate and got to be ahead of the updates at bay. fhfa. have ayou probably better pick on these things that i do but i do think he is a capable individual, we just disagree in terms of our policy approach. the educated. very capable attorney in his own right and has risen very high among house democrats. we just see things differently, and that is why. there is no malice about it, we just see the things differently. >> the present as nominated him

to be director of that federal financing of housing agency which is the regulator of fannie mae and freddie mac. larry in maryland. independent calller. thank you for waiting. caller: good morning. my comment is getting things done. i just do not see that happen -- happening in regard to the hearings. you can tell by how the hearing goes. for instance, if your car in to solve our problem in the organization the first thing you talk -- ask for is let me see an organizational chart and who has responsibilities for doing this, where does that go and how does that happen? you see all of that. when you have these hearings , whothe irs, and a global said this to what? that means no one has done their

work before the hearings are held. a tremendous waste of taxpayer money. guest: i think i understand your perspective. the fact is i do see the work chart before i go in and ask questions. when we asked who you purport to, what we are asking is who do you think you report to? who did you talk to in this regard? very different when you are trying to get to the bottom of something on who the work chart says the report -- report to verses a witness. and oftentimes it is two different things. it is not done out of incompetence but done to get to the heart of the matter. i understand you watch these hearings closely, but we do a lot of homework. if you look at my colleagues whether it is the chairman, my do a lot ofthey

homework before they go in, as do most members of congress about this. there is not uniformity of course in terms of preparation. call in northhone carolina. democratic calller. tyone, you are on the air. caller: good morning. i have been listening you talk to the ira scandal, and you are talking about the health care law. the new york does put out a report about that. the only thing you and republicans have been doing since obama has been president is block, block, block. lying in misleading the people about the irs,, health care law and everything else.

guest: i will let the american people speak on obama care. the fact is that most oppose. i did see the report from new york. i wish everyone well. my hope is obama care works, but unfortunately the facts are leading the to a very different conclusion than it working. it will cost the american people more. when you talk about the irs, most of us live in deep fear of the irs and the actions they will take and what the scandal has proven is some of the fears are warranted. we need to fix that. about the student loans. i talked about delaying implementation on the individual mandate for obama care. these are areas better bipartisan bills. clash of all about the big ideas of taxes and spending in health care, but this always comes back to a reference point.

the republicans control the house. democrats control the senate. you all know this. you watched c-span all lots. divides the areas where we agree and it consensus. my hope is the president will be as strong a leader in these final 3.5 years of his term than he was in the past two years, for instance to bring people together. presidential leadership really matters. if you want to get to the heart of spending issues, the heart of fixing the government for the better and to right-size this government we will have to have bipartisan agreement and the president that is deeply engaged who simply does not topple the country to give speeches but is willing to sit down with us and work with us to get things done and help the american people and

get the economy going again. host: think you very much for talking to our viewers. k you.nkin president obama is giving an economic address tomorrow in illinois. yesterday administration officials took time to brief reporters about the president's message, sang the remarks will include old ideas, new ideas, thinks congress should do, things he could do on his own and that any clever he can pull to help the economy, he will. meanwhile, the house speaker in a pre battle posted by his spokesperson said this week so world has introduced a historic rival, another speech on the economy by president obama. on wednesday the president will deliver his umpteenth

reiteration of the speech the white house can see he has been giving for eight years now. one member of the president's economic circle is leaving his job. the u.n. has decided to step down next month. he will take a post that it and named a think tank. -- neil wollen. treasury as acting secretary earlier this year. superb.neal was of the latest headlines on c-span radio. the korean war in a sense the south koreans unify themselves in a way that was not there before. down,he communists came

they were brutal. a lot of the south koreans turned against a communist in the north. oft solidified the sense national cohesion and identity. , it is veryd possible the south probably would have -- possible it would have disintegrated on its own. after north korean troops crossed the parallel, we look at a war that never really ended sunday night at 9:00 part of a tv this weekend. -- "book tv" this weekend. here to talk about health care taxes and this group in the katiey, .

guest: they are in interesting demographic. they represent about 80% of the community. this is a big contingency of that. they are interested in how we will move forward with tax policy and tax reform but the biggest single expenditure is health insurance. we're here today talking about how the affordable care act will impact them. this is a major impact for them. race andakdown, age, education attainment. this is from the web site. it is from 2009. self-employment rates by selected care historic stick -- characteristics. this is from 2009. who are they when it comes to age? you have the young

entrepreneurs but then you have an interesting demographic where it falls between the 40-65 mark. what we have found from our own research is these are people who have been in the work force who have been quite successful and have decided to start their own business. either decided they could do something better, more efficiently, more time with their family or generally a second career for them. they did not want to retire or wanted to have an income coming in. a slightly more mature population than most people think. a little bit more male than female. depending on what your looking at, is really where we fall. a full prop. may be

under the head of household. but itbe the husband could be the wife is co-owner and helping the business succeed. across the country we see a lot of it is a partnership. host: what are they doing? guest: they are doing everything. a lot more specialized technology. also a more traditional accountants. manufacturers and farmers. all over the gamut what they are doing. unemployed and an incorporated. what does that mean? guest: depending on the tax filing status. most self employed identified as paul proprietors. 60 percent. the rest are designated as llc, of categorization.

each one is treated differently. so they file taxes four times a year. in most cases they pay more money to the federal government in advance. looking atn you're tax designation and it becomes more complicated. oft: what about the level education for self-employed? guest: one of the things i am not sure if you can pull is you find the self-employed are homeowners. this is really important as retire -- start talking about tax reform and how that could impact discussions of limiting the home mortgage deduction. the last the statistical information, 70 percent are homeowners. highly-educated with at least a college degree of not post- graduate degree homeowner.

show this chart. it shows the difference between a corporate inc.. you see and read the unincorporated, the self employment rate is much higher for those with less than a high- school diploma. red theee in unincorporated. explain the difference. guest: without reading correctly, my assumption would be set a higher red, talking about people with a high school degree or less are probably your more mechanics, industrial workers. on the other side of the advanced degree, i am assuming those are where you will find doctors, lawyers, accountants better probably not part of a firm but designated as self employed because of the way the law firm is set up, accounting

firm is set up. if that is probably where i could break that down. questionsng your about the self-employed in this country. want to hear from the self- employed themselves. a fourth line set up for you. start dialing in now so we can hear your stories and questions about the health care law and tax structure. let me just spend a little bit of time on your association. how many members do you have and what is your role in all of this? guest: we are the only association that is advocating, educating and promoting the self-employed. roughly just under 200,000 members. the self-employed community as a whole is 22 million. we also include micro business owners, the owners with 10 or less employees. a huge demographic of people across the country. really what and expand and

educate members about how to grow the best business they can, , andhey can be successful how they could make the challenges of running a business easier for them. as you can imagine there are significant legislative challenges. we're there to help. it is a simple mission. we take great pride in it. we love that the person who comes to us starting their business and did 10 years is a flourishing business, providing a great source of income for them and their family. host: are they seeking your help on the health-care law, and what are the top questions? guest: huge concerns. what it really breaks down to is the education peace. the steadyg to be ship in harbor when there is a

hurricane going on around us. the challenge is how will they purchase health insurance? how much will it cost? havethan anything they faced significant challenges. you are seeing an older population of individuals who are self-employed. 40-65 years old things start going wrong. you have had maybe about with cancer or heart disease in your family. all of those conditions have really been a barrier for the self employed to purchase health insurance. they tend to get very high deductible, catastrophic coverage. when it relates to health insurance, they are very excited. they will be able to get a quality health care plan. the issue is the cost of that. that is really the cost of that, how much will this costly, impact the business?

at july 23. are a lot of people do not know how much that will cost. that is becoming a bigger issue for the self-employed. what kind of coverage they have right now? guest: deductible kinds of plants. deductible kinds of plans. this is one of them, you will be that willt a plan tell you the coverage you are expecting for ambulatory care. caller: i am a farmer.

. also contract what will it cost me under the new health-care law and what i will be getting for the cost, and the concern that i , if i am not allowed to choose what will serve me the best. when the affordable health care enrolled to have .s a backup the va

of service for years. and only in the last year. and frankly it is the barack that is-- bureaucracy incredibly difficult to get quality care. i always assumed it would be similar to the criteria of something like medicare would have. it is nothing here as good as medicare. -- near as good as medicare. up until recently i had catastrophic, but i am at an age where i probably need to have it a little bit better. much was catastrophic costing you? caller: probably between 300-

500 per month. the: did you note under health-care law that that will butfit the requirements, that will not fit the requirements? caller: that was my understanding. host: there is all whole of questions. i will try to not through them. you are absolutely eligible for health benefits under the va. one thing that will have been is when you go to the exchange portal, either online or paper or you can call, they are going to run you through a series of questions that will trigger if you are eligible for care.

right away your application will trigger that you may be able to find coverage under a federal program as it stands. that being said, if you also decide you want a more robust coverage, there will be four levels of health care that any individual purchasing will be eligible for. platinum, gold, silver and bronze. the difference is that out of pocket expenses. hopefully you are familiar with the fact of the health-care law caps out of pocket expenses for an individual. if you buy a platinum plan, you will pay a higher premium but much lower, if any of the pocket expenses. a sliding scale down to the bronze plan for a lower monthly premium but you may hit the cup of out of pocket expenses over the course of the year.

you will have some choices. one thing that has been challenging and the ability to have flexible is to buy a comprehensive plan or a more catastrophic high-deductible plan, he will not have that choice. because of the essential health benefits that are mandated by the federal government, and if you are in a state that has decided to add on, every health plan has to cover at least those 10 categories, if not more. you will have a more richer product. approach being you will have a more substantive coverage of health care. the con is that will drive up the cost. as think i have answered all of his questions. that is a lot. getting back to anyone listening, the application -- application process will not like you if you are other --

eligible for other federal programs. host: katie vliestra taking your questions. if your self-employed we want to hear from you. a special line set aside. don in new jersey. just wanted to bring -- i used to have insurance. $500-$600 per month for the insurance i got. and i am a 58-years-old. i found it to be completely terrible. for one thing, you could not really get to see anybody because there was a very limited amount of doctors that would allow you to see.

host: are you self-employed? caller: yes. i decided to get off of that and deal with the doctors themselves and pay with -- pay for it out of my own pocket. i found for the prices they charge you are far more reasonable than what people actually think of today. one of the interesting things, and going off a little bit to talk about this, you have these health-care providers who and gone off of insurance you can see of patients and clients and you build them the services and they pay out of pocket. some of those individuals may have health insurance. to theient will go health insurance and ask for reimbursement. an interesting phenomena on that has come out of the fact that the health insurance market has

significant challenges. think as we move into the exchange marketplace and the health care reform, one of the main tenet was to make the health insurance market more competitive and accessible. it remains to be seen if that is going to happen or we will have a more constructive marketplace but i think the competition is good. in your case you may be an individual looking at more of a bronze plan, bare minimum of coverage. hopefully you are healthy and happy for many years and maybe you do not need such a mammoth as the health care plan as someone in a platinum category. and host: democratic calller in washington, d.c. go ahead. you're on the air.

caller: good morning. is iestion this morning have been of contact for the past 30 years. i am retired now. interested on how to get insurance for my employees so the help the economy with have employeesu that a stable, they will work for you. growth potential. that is why i was so happy to see the affordable care act was in effect when the president was elected. my question is, what would be the expenses for employees? if you are an employee with it -- employer with it the

or less, you did not have to offer health insurance. they would really like to offer health benefits to employees. it helps with retention, keep employees happy. there is a stronger relationship there, more benefits being offered. one of the things they have advocated for is other tools that business owners can use to help businesses purchase and -- purchase insurance. one of the biggest items we think is phenomenal is the health reimbursement arrangements. this allows the employer to offer every employee the same amount of money as it relates to health care cost. i am sitting here and get

$1,000, a co-worker gets $1,000 and they provide the proceeds to the employers and gets reimbursed those dollars. we think as we move towards the exchange, those types of tools will become a lot more popular. that is something you can do to help employees purchase health insurance, because of your size you will not be mandated to do it, but you want to keep employees happy and healthy and a tool you can use to ensure they can produce held insurance and will not be such a hardship. host: the maryland business section has this headline. employees orth 25 less who pay income of 50,000 or less could apply for these tax credits, and it would allow them to offer a 35% of group health care costs. guest: popular program. one caveat, only eligible for

two years. a great opportunity for a onlyer business, but available for two years. that is something we work to try to change and make permanent. you will have to make the tax cost issue that is unfortunate for businesses to have to do. --t: a question on twitter framework wek it's can live with it. i think there is plenty of opportunity to make it better. we have advocated for changes to the health care reimbursement arrangements. even though it provides a substantive basement of coverage, it makes coverage more expensive.

we have been very active on the hill and with the administration to find out how we can make this work even better. at the end of the day we want healthy and happy members who can provide health insurance to their families and employees it their business grows to that size. income isage annual 62,000. can they afford health insurance? availabledits will be for individuals between 100%- 400% of poverty level. i did write it down so i could speak to it. if they're making between allows a -- $11,495, they will be eligible for premium assistance credit. it is based on a sliding income scale. andly of four, the lowest highest end. within those ranges people will

get premium assistance to purchase health insurance, which will make it easier. one thing to point out is on the , the computerhose system will pick out if you are eligible for medicaid or you have children and dependents depending on the child welfare program. it will be able to get assistance that way, too. care talking about health and taxes. from the association website, these numbers. the united states added nearly 1 million self-employed businesses between 2006 and 2007, bringing the total to 21.7 million. the self-employed added 992 billion to the economy in 2007, that is up from 970 billion in 2006, a 2.2% increase. michael who is self-employed in michigan. democratic calller.

what you do? i am a sculptor and illustrator. i do freelance. rate, i guess i am never agreed to buy health insurance because i just cannot afford it no matter how low it is. my income is such that it is in spits and starts and i am doing good to pay my house payments every month. i guess i do not really have a question but to vent my frustration something they call a national health-care plan when it is really just a mandate to force people who cannot afford it in the first place. to pay theyou going fine? caller: i guess i will have to. i will go to jail for tax evasion. i do not know how they can call this a government sting when it is forcing people to pay private

industry, something that is way overpriced to begin with. that is my thing. to the previous question about can we live with it? we hear from people like michael all over the country who are doing their trade, and they loved it. sometimes the economy is good, and sometimes it is bad. this is what we've been hammering the the past year, great coverage, comprehensive, there is still the cost issue that people did not get to choose the level of coverage that they want and how much they want to spend for it. people like michael is what we're out there talking about. cost matters. i think there is an idea of people will purchase health is like saidd it

it up and do it but would you make a choice of paying your mortgage payment or health insurance premiums? at the end of the day michael will pay a penalty of $95 the first year and then 1% of his income moving forward. one thing we've not talked about is the house action last thursday to delay the employer mandate and individual mandate. our argument is give the millions of americans going into the exchange market adhered to understand how much it will cost and make the best choices and not hit them with a penalty right away. we will continue to advocate that point. is theo you think that best way to get help the americans into the exchange? let's assume michael is healthy and is running the cost. $95. guest: it will be interesting to

see how this shakes out. we have been questioning how it will impact younger adults that are on their parents' insurance. we need a healthy, young people in the exchange to make it work. unfortunately there will people be in the exchange but we need everyone to be in there. will sayyoung people $95, that is a night out on the town of friday. host: do you go to jail for not paying the fines? guest: you will not go to jail, because it will be deducted from your tax bill. from what i understand, but the irs -- if you are and the exchange, you will get a paper document you will attach that

will verify if you have health insurance. you will be asked to pay the $95. it would be hard pressed unless you are a delinquent 20 years down the road and have not pay for health insurance that you go to jail. host: ron on twitter says -- here. having a fire alarm lights and alarms going off. we will stay here until we get word we need to leave the building. going on today in new hampshire. republican calller. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am self-employed. we have a small business. we have our own health insurance. year within per

$8,000 deductible. is that considered a catastrophic plan that will not be considered viable now? of a: correct, because high deductible. one of the pieces about this is a caps the amount of out-of- pocket expenses. for an individual you cannot pay pocketan $6,360 out of for any expenses. leave --e will have to end the're going to program a little bit early with the bells and whistles going off around us. we want to be safe. thank you for watching today's washington journal. will we be -- we will be back tomorrow morning 7:00 eastern time. >> now portion of the week be interview, q&a.

>> you're right, late in the riding of this book i suffered a severe orthopedic injuries that nearly derailed the project. >> i smashed my ankle. it forced me to slow down. for three months i could do nothing but reed, so i did additional research. it was a terrible accident. there was a silver lining to it. thank god i am ok. that happened for the very end. june, 2009. i was very close to finishing the book. i think it is good sometimes to step back from a project you have been very involved in and

to be able to look at it with fresh eyes, which could only happen if you put down the book for three months, which i was forced to do. >> what led you to read the first sentence, march 1793 gilbert stuart crossed the north atlantic for the express purpose of painting george washington, the supreme price of age for any ambitious portrait artist. >> , i start the book with a simple reason, his image of washington became our image, the iconic image of washington. was essentially in the same business that i am in terms of trying to penetrate the mystery and enigma of george washington. i was not only fascinated by his portraits but fascinated by comments, because he spied another washington working

behind the reserved facade. he saw a man with a tremendous personality and said if washington had grown up in the forest, he would have been the fear system on the savage tribes. interestingly enough people who knew washington best, emerson -- hamilton, jefferson -- they did say that they had the same personality. there was a tremendous fierce will, of fairness -- furnace of personality that was boiling all of the time. >> you say in the pre bid to this book that you wanted a fresh portrait. after all that has been written, how did you go about finding a fresh portrait? hamilton had a few with

washington late in the revolutionary war. hamilton wrote a series of very perceptive letters about washington where he said he was moody and the charitable and something of a powder keg. i can remember being startled because i had read so much about washington, but these were significant dimensions of personality that i felt had been overlooked by previous biographers. the more i read about washington and saw in fact he was a man of many moods, passions, a fiery opinions, but because it was all covered by this immense self-control people did not see it. we have sanded down the rough edges of the personality and ended up making him planned, and there i say it, even boring a bit. people at the times of washington as a very dynamic and

charismatic figure. i would love for contemporary americans to share that kind of excitement that washington's contemporaries shared. i have to pay tribute to the new edition of washington papers. year another volume or to appears. they now publish more than 60 volumes of the projected nine volumes. to give you an idea of how much more information there is available now than even a century ago. the old edition from the 1930's was based on 17,000 documents. 135,000edition based on documents collected from archives all over the world. you not only have every letter written by or to washington published in sequence, but you have lavishly indicated letters were duke it extracts from

letters, diaries. i have thousands of eyewitness accounts. i really tried to bring him alive as a fully three- dimensional character. some and so vivid that if you walk in the right now you would know what he looked like, how he sounded. he was not very preserved, in many ways a very repressive character. you have to tease out this tremendous force of personality. we have so much anecdotal material that i feel we really can't try to recreate the man. >> here are a couple of things to say in the beginning, that he has the colossal temper. how did you find that out? to go there was an example of a cabinet meeting where jefferson said that washington lost his

temper. he had been shown a cartoon that showed him beating and thelotine the way believe 16th was guillotined. had difficulty for several minutes regaining control of the motions. there are lots of stories like this. people have noticed these before but thought there were more incidental to his personality. it suggests more these emotions boiling under the surface. and this is very different from the way we see washington, but the people closest to him a sense of tremendous intensity under the surface of periodically boiling over. >> you said he was prone to tears?

>> the evidence is everywhere in this story. we all remember him standing in front of the tavern saying i cannot come to you, would you mind coming to me? washington hugs him and there were tears in his eyes. i was struck the number of times how many times contemporary noticeds of noticed -- tears in his eyes. a highly-emotional man, but someone who was always very reluctant to show those emotions. afraid ofays becoming captive so he became almost overly controlled personality. muscle bound in a certain way. you say he was a man of fierce irrigable this --

distribution? >> i felt that was the overlooked the mentioned. also a man in his dealing with political associates, military officers could and often was exquisitely sensitive and courteous. i do not want to paint a portrait of him as tyrannical, but rather, someone who was very sensitive in dealing with people. he had a tremendous sense of tact and courtesy, and exemplary figure in that way. a very complicated man. in this day and age, what makes you think of 900 page book will sell? >> at the moment people are very disingenuous with american politics. there is no figures but is more heroic or fear of this or

courageous than george washington. what i tried to show in the book, almost a novel, something that slowly and gradually happens in his life, washington as a young man is an amazing perseverance and doggedness about him. you could see glimmers of the future leader. someone who is pursuing money status. not critically attractive character when he is young there, but he so transcends his past as someone who was so ennobled by a certain circumstance that under the pressure of the revolutionary war in the constitutional convention, the creation of the federal government, these monumental challenges bring out this greatness. this is a man that ends up so much greater than anyone would have predicted who read about his adolescence or early adulthood. i think it is a tremendously inspirational story at a time

when we all need a little bit of inspiration. i think the american public is pretty depressed at the moment. want a snapshot of in 1775ston because up and takes control-- >> we now take you to the u.s. house. but just laid of work beginning at noon -- legislative work beginning at noon. >> the house will be in order. >> the speakers rims july 23 2013. signed john a