>> where was she born? >> that was a little bit of a family scandal. is he converts to quakerism. they go off and they live in the frontier, which is in north carolina. they were just going to move there. she was born in north carolina, so she is north carolina's only first lady. she spends most of her live -- life denying it. they moved back to virginia. thats raised in so she's raised in the world of slave holding. >> her father released his slaves as a quaker. is that the cause of his inability to continue his business?

>> i think he had other problems besides that. he couldn't farm so they moved to that chilly northern city of philadelphia. >> i'm not sure if you know so much about her thoughts of slavery. how is it that she reconciled herself to actually having slaves in the white house? >> i think that's a good question. i'm not sure i know the answer to that. but she did not free any of her slaves as her father had. and she didn't speak out against slavery so the quaker background there did not effect her slave holding. >> are there letters about that? >> this is why historians have a hard job. >> it's a real dichotomy. >> her father frees slaves and

then she's this beautiful 25- year-old widow. and you could argue she could have had her pick of any man but she picks james madison. turns out to be a great pick. but why does she do that? it's one of those moments she said i could go back to the world i lived in but we don't have anything from her at the. what we do know is by the time she's a woman in middle age and old she has exactly the same kind of attitude toward enslaveo understand them as humans. when james madison dies and doesn't free slaves, everyone begins to blame dolley. part of that is fine because she

starts selling slaves as soon as she can. >> what about her quaker roots affected the kind of woman she became if this aspect did not -- aspect, does it not? >> i think we're back to the empathy thing. the peacemaking. the idea you don't make war. >> do we know if she counseled her husband against going to war since quakers don't believe in fighting wars. >> we don't know. if you read her letters she's as partisan as anybody. she has the white house defensiveness. i think she probably supported him 100% in what he decided to do but her own nature was always to conciliate. >> how did dolley feel about women's education? >> what we know about her was she was a very well educated woman for her day, any class. we're not sure how she got there because she was a southerner and southerners did not educate

their girls. we know from her handwriting that she was very well educated. she never had a daughter so we don't know what she would have done but i'm sure she would have given her daughter a good education. >> the quakers believed in educating women as well as men so she benefited from that. she takes that background with her into the first ladies role. >> what qualities did she see in james madison when he was so much her opposite? >> well, i think on sits attract many times. many times. attract

i think she was very impressed with his intellect understand private he was thought to be very amusing and very entertaining. and so i think that's the side of him that she saw while they were courting. >> and it's interesting that aaron burr provided the link between the two. you get the sense of these people who were part of the american cannon were a small community. >> it's a small world. and james madison fell in love with her and was very romantic. he was in his mid 40's and had never married which was odd. marriage is a very pragmatic business in this age and love isn't necessarily part of it. so dolley's approach to the marriage was pragmatic. he would be a protector of her son. as the marriage went on she fell deeply in love with james. marriage was a pragmatic business and she had a son to

protect and property to be managed. >> and someone who would do that honestly and well. >> and had a reputation for running his own family plantation in virginia. >> rick is up next in kansas. >> hello. good evening. you ladies are good. >> thanks, rick. caller: two questions if you would. first, did ms. madison travel abroad, if , so when and who did she visit? >> and among modern time first ladies who might she compare with? i will listen as i enjoy my gelato. [laughter] >> did dolley madison travel abroad? >> i don't think she ever travel abroad.

>> diplomats were amazed by that because she was so converse nt -- conversant and she was a diplomatic wife so they did marvel that she had that quality. >> and how did she get her knowledge of french fashions for example? >> if you were dolley madison, you could not go anywhere whether it was a city in america or france without having to shop for her. also very early on she became the patriot jay of the french minister's wife and she schooled her as well. >> she hired a master of ceremonies in the white house who was french and familiar with all of the diplomatic niceties shall we say so that he would explain to her what kind of food was served and what the french taste was and what french qui -- cuisine was about, so

she had a number of people who helped school her in this type of thing. >> the white house staff is large and all of this come from the money that they were paid or from their personal wealth, all these extra staff and advisors that you talk about? >> probably most of them did. for instance, one of the things she hired as they called him french john away from the minister from great britain which was a huge slap tofment hire somebody away from somebody someone away else's household particularly when that person was in the diplomatic community was an insult on the one hand or a great coo on the other. and she was able to do that. >> a lot of resources went to

creating the out fits. she got the bills and she was like don't tell my husband. between buying the stuff and paying the duties on it, it was quite a lot. caller: i wanted to ask you about the maryland component of this fleeing of the white house during the war. my understanding is that there is a house in brookville maryland that is called white house for a day and my understanding is that madison arrived at that house and conducted business from there and i wondered whether dolley madison was part of that or whether there was some kind of a transition from virginia to maryland? >> i do not know the answer to that question. >> that gives us another stop in this. stump the panel. >> another place to check out, the white house for a day you tell us about. >> i was going to go back and answer or give my opinion about the second part of the question

was who would she compare to in the present. and i would say jacqueline kennedy. i think she looked at imagining her husband's administration and recreating the white house for the stage for diplomacy through her renovation of the white house in the same way dolley looked at the white house as a stage and imagined her husband's presidency. so i see a lot of comparable activity and things that she was trying to achieve as was jacqueline kennedy. >> and jacqueline kennedy referenced dolley. she was a fan and definitely referenced her in the re dog of doing of the- white house. >> and she had to love the

french furniture. [laughter] >> with regard to the renovation of the white house, if you go to the white house today, can you see evidence of the torching by the british? >> there are places in the basement where you can see burned timbers. i know when they did the restoration of the white house, they found a lot of charred wood and charred bricks and so forth that were taken out and saved as remnants from the fire. >> we're showing some pictures of some of the charring right now. >> you can see it on the trim of the balcony, too. laura bush told me president bush showed the prime minister. it was funny. >> how complete it was destruction? >> pretty complete inside. it had to be almost totally rebuilt. >> how long did it take to rebuild it? >> the madisons didn't move back

in. it wasn't until the monroe's administration that they were able to move back in the white house, so i would say a couple of years. >> about 18 minutes and it's time to move. a complex part of our history and long life to the retirement after the madison administration. james and dolley return to their beloved montpelier in virginia and we're going to visit that place next. >> if you were a visitor you would enter here and be shown into the madison's great drawing room. mrs. madison had many lady friends she would invite here. smith was a favorite. the daughters of thomas jefferson were also frequent visitors. her most intimate circle included her family, her sisters especially were always welcome guests as well as many nieces

she had who often stayed for extended visits here. the drawing room combined many different themes into one. you see many of the faces of the great american statesman, but you see figures of classical antiquity. you have a reproduction of the declaration of independence. you have a miniature of homer, the writer of the great epics of greece. then you have a painting of pan and youths. this was 200 years old when they purchased it. in the way of blending the classical and american they were trying to place the events in world history. this is a room where all the guests would assemble before dinner and have a chance to meet one another and converse socially and casually and then they might be invited to dine in the dining room.

after supper, the ladies would adjourn back into the drawing room and maybe play a game and be served coffee and tea. this was a social center of the house. if you were a part of the intimate circle of friend you would be invited into the dining room from the drawing room. here dolley madison in an unusual setting for the period would sit at the head of the table and her husband would is -- would sit at the middle of the table. dolley would direct the conversation and james could engage in conversation with the people to his right or left. this table today is set for eight people, but there could be as many people as 20 served in the dining room. that would not be unusual. she considered dining here to be more relaxing than entertaining in washington.

she was less worried serving 100 people here than 20 in washington. many important figures would be seated with them. thomas jefferson was frequently here. james monroe was here. henry clay. margaret smith. once while mrs. madison was serving at the head of the table the vice president offered to do the honors for her and she responded oh no, watch with what ease i do it. and he had to admit she did it with unparalleled ease. it was as if she were born and educated worsen inverse i. versailles. >> and looking at their life when they returned there, how was it compared to when they lived in the white house?

>> i think they were besieged by people who wanted to associate themselves with the mad sons. many visitors in addition to -- political visitors in addition to family and friend. sort of like the washingtons and the jeffersons. everybody wanted to meet the great personages. so they had people in the house with them. not only relatives but many political visitors as well. >> she was devoted to him and getting his papers together in that role. was she happy doing that? >> yes, that the point she loved her husband very much. that is where he wanted to stay and so she stayed as well. the descriptions of her at this time weren't the same. she's described as content, adam and eve in paradise. she definitely missed washington.

she would write and say tell me all the news and she would complain a little bit i haven't been out. keep me up to date and let me know what is happening. for her own self-she probably would have wanted to go back to washington for a visit but james madison was going to stay put. >> she was 49 years old when she left the white house. he was 17 years her senior. she worked to involve him when he was in the last days of his final illness. before we talk about her years back in washington because she lived until the age of 81 and was very much involved in the august. caller: hello. i have a couple of comments about dolley madison's clothing and fashion and then i have a question. i used to be a dozen at the

north carolina historical museum and we happen to have some of her belongings which includes the original of that red velvet dress we saw. also we own a pink silk dress she wore while she was first lady. and what was interesting about that piece of clothing was when we had it conserved by the people of williamsburg virginia. they found that the tiny but tons on the front of the dress were filled with dried peas. so that's what her dress maker did for her with french fashion also as she grew older and her hair became very very thin, she did have some real human hair curls sewed into her turbins and put that on in the morning with her curls showing and she looked younger she thought.

the way the greensboro historical museum came into possession of these wonderful items including beautiful silk shoes and carved ivory calling cases is they received it from some folks who brought a trunk at auction that was sort of a hidden treasure. and i want to know what these ladies know about the finding of that trunk that was hidden behind a wall. and i want to say it was in philadelphia. but i want to know how the person that had that hidden behind the wall got those very important things and had them? >> thanks so much for the details. >> i'll answer quickly because i

want to say this is happening in the 1950's and 1960's so not that long ago. the story of ladies historical society found and financed this deserves a television program of its own. >> is that right? >> yes. they raised money one chicken dinner at a time paid the sum of $25,000 to get this stuff. >> is that close to where she was born? is that where the connection was? >> the ladies felt like she was north carolina's only born first lady. you can go there now and see part of that. >> dolley madison returns to washington after the death of her beloved james. how does she spend her years here? >> she become the grand dame of washington society once again. because people know about her poverty, but don't want to

confront her with it. people in the white house, the tylers invite her to come to dinner on many occasions. the younger first ladies always ask her advice on entertaining and handling large crowd of people. so she becomes sort of an ex- first lady advisor. and that's how she happened to do the match making between angel casington and van buren the president's son. she's in the mix again and very much a behind the scenes player again. >> this is not a tragic ending. she manages to live a well known involved life. >> i think it was lonely without james. eventually she sold. you remember this is her town.

she worked for 16 years to build this town and the president's mansion as a symbol. it was under her tenure that the president's mansion got a nickname the white house. she can be credited with the nationalism around the end of the war of 1812. when she comes back to washington, it is like the past came to light. she wore many of the same clothes. she was poor. but of course, this made her seem like a relic from an rare -- from the past. >> was that her real name? >> it was indeed. though again her niece tried to perpetuate this idea that she

was named dorothy. but she was dolley and trying to figure out why her family tried back to the scandalous rumors about her sex al fair with -- sexual affair with thomas jefferson and they thought that was too common a name for her but she was dolley and her birth is recorded that way. >> with or without the e. >> you see it spelled sometimes without. >> that's advertising. now the icon. >> john is in pennsylvania. caller: yes i was wondering if dolley madison's first husband john todd was related to abraham lincoln's wife, mary todd. >> i have no idea. >> i'm going to say what is important about that is marry about that. brooded

when mary todd comes to down decades later and dolley madison set the example. mary todd tries to ride on her coat tails. but she does not have dolley's sense of tone. she's tone death when it comes to that. >> is it true dolley's son from her first marriage gambled away much of her money? >> that and drinking. >> that will do it. >> yes. >> did he continue his relationship with his mother in later years? >> no, she did not. >> your question about dolley madison? caller: i'm questioning what's the relationship between ms. madison and ms. polk and harrison. >> and harrison. >> i think the polks became

friends. people wanted to associate themselves with dolley after she came back to the capitol city and it was cash shea by sort of cache by association, so the polks often invited her to dine with them and take part in parties and so forth in the white house. >> we should tell people about congress awarding her a seat. >> i call this her iconic phase when she becomes a symbol. she's awarded a seat on the floor of congress with escorts. she's the only woman to do it and for a woman to do it. there is a lot of attention being paid to her and she starts to become a symbol even as she's living. >> did she avail herself in the

debates in congress? >> one of the things she did for other women is that she would go to the debates and go and watch the supreme court argue and that allowed other women to do that as well. >> that was a way of bringing the women into a knowledge of what was going on politically so while they were part of this social network that she was setting up in washington, they could also be part of the political networks as well. she would get the women together and they would go up to capitol hill. she called them dove parties. it was part of educating the women side through what was going on in politics at the time. >> debbie on facebook -- didn't paul jennings give her money at the end of her life when she was so poor? >> money and groceries, yes. >> you spoke about how she was writing a letter to her sister in the midst of evacuating the white house.

how did it get posted or did she hold on to it? >> we only have this letter in her fair hand. so in 1830's when she's thinking about her legacy. she wants stuff from dolley madison. she's caution. and she mentioned this letter, we don't have the original. we have a caller: which there is a terrific article. that is an excellent question. >> it is an excellent pr move. caller.ast go ahead.

did she have any relationship with munro's wife? i believe she was born in england and whether she had any grandchildren. >> thank you very much. that helps us set the stage for a future conversation d. they have a relationship? -- did they have a relationship? >> not terribly much new york -- much, no. they knew each other as plantation owners in the same area but they were not friendly and there were no children. >> we would say no legitimate issue as they would say. >> as we close here, here is a quote from dolley madison, we all have a hand in the formation of our own destiny. we must press on that intricate path leading to perfection and happiness by doing all that is good and hand some before we can be taken under the silver wing

of our rewarding angel. >> she's important for several reasons which she does set the role of first lady. for historians we look at her and she let's us know the role of aristocracy in this great democracy, why does this matter? and i think for dolley madison what she's offered suss a model -- offered us a model of governance that stresses civility and empathy. she's modeling this for us. she's not going to win. we need examples and role models and her way of conducting politics, stressing building bridges and not bunkers is a model we can use for the future.

>> i think she's very important as katherine says for bringing those models but also for bringing women into the political mix at a very early time period. and her conciliation or her abilities to bring people together. wouldn't it be nice if we had her back in washington now. >> we only skimmed the surface in 90 minutes of 81 entering -- interesting years of lie. -- life. if you want to learn more. i thank the white house historical association for their help in this series. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] ♪

>> we will bring you another ladies."f "first monday,wo will begin september 9. under more about the first ladies -- find out more about the first ladies at c- span.org/firstladies. now available is the book on first ladies at c-

span.org/products. >> tonight on c-span, a discussion about the media coverage of the iraq war was to president obama and visit a marine corps base camp pendleton. they discussed efforts to rebuild civil society in the be a. -- libya. mayors faced each other in ecb sin history. d.c.ment -- in recent history. shortly after great took office in 2011, brown, who had also run for mayor thomas said that he was paid and promised a job in

exchange during the election. federal investigators discovered that much of brown's story was true. there was a covering of a eager secret. the shadow campaign. on,ou had a campaign going the regular campaign, and another set of folks who were in the greatht next to campaign. there is so much going on will study had several workers complaining about the other workers. they felt that they were getting paid more. there was a lot of confusion as to who was paying them. it wasn't until a year later that book started putting things together when federal investigators began asking questions. they be lysed the folks who were next door, we cannot find any record -- they realized the folks who were next door, we cannot find any record of them.

>> nikita stewart looks at corruption in d.c. city politics sunday at 8:00 on c-span's "q& " ." the new america foundation hosted an hour-long discussion. [applause] thank you for coming out tonight on and a reasonably wet, june evening. it is great to see such a wonderful turn out. no output has been as dangerous or deadly for journalists as the

war in iraq. list or03, 100 return a more than 50 at media workers have been killed. these journalists were killed because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. they were caught in the crossfire. they were killed because of who they were and what they did. we were killed because they dared to write and record and photograph videotapes. 93 murders. how may people convicted? none so far. distinctionameful on the global impunity index for the fifth consecutive year. most of those killed work for iraqi news organization. iraq is a dangerous place for foreign correspondents. it is dangerous for iraq east

aqis working for western outlets. they are seeking to silence could. have fled. 5-- 57 is more.e number last year for the first time since 2003, they do not document any work related killings of journalists in iraq. you assume this is good news, you need to consider what is happening to the media landscape will step a year ago this month, iraq government ordered 44 local international media outlets to be shut down. authorities do not enforce thaty

that order was intended to be a warning shot to news outlets and that they should tell the government why. later in the year, the iraqi parliament debated a cyber crime bill that would carry a penalty for violations such as use of he internet that could hard -- couple months ago, the suspended license for television channels, accusing them.

precious few american organization still maintain a presence in baghdad today philia -- today. littlee sucking up what oxygen and dollars are left for coverage. iraq remains vitally important. teetering on yet another brink of so for -- civil war. we can all sit up here and fill the wee hours of those morning and tell stories. we will not do that. we all hope we will never have to cover another war as awful as this has been. i am privileged to be up here with three colleagues whose work i am sure all of you have seen over the years.

from iraq and sometimes from point beyond. to my left is ahmed. he has the most interesting resume of perhaps any of us up here. before the war he was a sculptor and a professor of art at the time at a university. during the war it was closed for a time, and he decided to try to make a living as a journalist. most recently as a field producer for al jazeera english. he is currently serving in north carolina.

to his left, hannah is currently a national correspondent. she spent two years covering the war in iraq. she was one of the preeminent voices covering the arab spring a couple years ago. to my far left, michael is an amazing photojournalist who has been shooting regularly for a quarter-century. you have probably seen him most frequently on the website of "the new york times."

both his photography and his writing. he is the author of the book that is on sale to the right of the bottles of wine. when we are done, get a bottle of wine, pick up the book, and get him to sign it for you. it is usually what we call b matter. i did note he has one of the greatest lines in addition to the awards he has one. he has won every significant award a photographer of his stature could win. in 2001, he was included in a

book called the best american non-required reading. i would like to start by asking you -- you were there as recently as 2012. >> 10 months ago. >> sorry. we journalists are bad at math. let's talk about the state of affairs. while targeted killings tend to have not been a feature of the let'sts facing reporters,

talk about what that environment is like. >> it is still as dangerous as it used to be. we thank god there is no killing right now, but this is so a hostile environment. they have reported a lot, especially by the army and the police, in a country that is supposed to be democracy. freedom of speech. it seems they are trying to prevent people from speaking again.

before 2011, we used to have iraqi journalists who were targeted. they were considered spies. in the beginning people used to ask who are you working for, and if we said we work for an american organization, we were in danger. -- theatient in iraq was occupation in iraq was led by the americans. when i said i worked for the times, they said it was fine because the french do not have an army. after a while every journalist was considered working for an american organization.

they thought of us as spies. people used to look at us as if we were happy to have explosions. they did not know we were trying to bring the truth and talk about what really happened. most of the threats were coming from the armed groups, the insurgency and sometimes american forces. not a lot from iraqi forces. after a while, it changed. no one was allowed to work.

now after the americans are gone we saw the iraqi army and the police are becoming more hostile. it was very usual to get beat up by the army or police, have the camera broken. also, we started seeing journalists targeted because they work for this specific newspaper or radio station or tv channel, and now we are having journalists targeted because they are sunni or shiite. >> when you look at some of the statements about news organizations and the accusations of them being

subversive or are working against the national interest. it could have been statements issued by the coalition press authority a decade ago. talk a little about the restrictions you guys faced as journalists imposed by the u.s. military and the degree to which you see a legacy of those restrictions as implemented by the iraqi government. did they learn and copy some of the worst tendencies of the u.s. administration?

>> we would roam the streets and work pretty freely. in late 2003 it started to tighten up. in the beginning i do not remember signing in restrictions. then we would sign up page. it got longer and longer. then we were signing 15 page document that said we could not photograph wounded soldiers without their permission. in every instance i was able to document of photographers taking pictures of soldiers killed in action, they were instantly banned. the news organizations were not able to get access to combat zones, and you saw the iraqis pick it up.

first, hospitals were off- limits. then they would not let us photograph iraqi soldiers. it grew and grew. in 2007 i remember mallett key going on tv and saying -- maliki says they are doing propaganda, and we instantly became targets. i left in january of 2012, and i remember obama saying we are leaving behind democratic iraq with free press. you would be killed if you had tried to report independently. the last car bombing i covered was when they hit the intelligence headquarters, and i got there right away and there

were several friends there, and they had their cameras in their pockets. they did not even carry slrs because it was too much of a target. they would not take their cameras out of their pockets, and i said, you are not trying to sneak photos? they said, they do not try to sneak photos. they will get beaten. they had not taken a picture. they had been there all day.

>> i lived there for two years, and i went back and covered iraq for seven or eight years, and it was a mixed bag. they would have people you could talk to or were really steering you away, and god forbid you hear a little news. god forbid you do a story, and did you get to talk to your parents? we are on blackout because they committed suicide. southern iraq was known to have a good military operations apparatus, so it was much freer to work there. they allowed much more unfettered access. they also reached out to the iraqi press and gave them access. that was an example of what

worked. it did get a disproportionate coverage. individuals gelled and got it. they tried as best as they could to do workshops, saying pr is your friend. you cannot totally clamp down. i was also there a year ago. the arab summit was held in baghdad. this was going to be the triumphant homecoming. here is all of these in meters amirs from around the country, so there was this big

extravaganza, and they were determined to show how open and free and democratic. we got week-long visas. there was security, but we had come this way to interview this person and we are here to help you. all the dignitaries go home, and they say, you have to leave now. we have no place to put you. off you go. there was nothing beyond that facade that it is only for three days, and then things go back to normal.

>> i went to iraq in 2002 to cover one of those sham referendums. they used to let you stay the whole week. when you look at the challenges journalists have faced over the past decades from restrictions imposed by the americans and now the iraqi government, and then you look at the challenges journalists continue to face with the precarious security environment. yes, we had a golden era after the summer invasion, but it slowed precipitously pretty quickly. -- slid precipitously downhill pretty quickly.

when you look at the security challenges, the fact that they do not have much money, help us understand how you rank these sorts of challenges. what was the real impediment to being able to do the work you do? i should note in spite of those hurdles you do remarkable work. you managed to triumph, but help us understand how these factors laden with official government restrictions. >> it was expensive. there were two routes you could

take. one cost nothing, and the other was $1000 a day. i remember guys telling me they flew to kuwait and the u.s. military flew them in for free. a lot of times they were there to photograph a giveaway of soccer balls. unless you develop a relationship you were not going to get stuff. even if you had money there was nothing to buy. you had to have a sophisticated security force. i am not talking about a whole convoy. that was the most dangerous

thing you could do. am i wrong? >> right. you do not want to attract attention. >> you had few freelancers. i hate to use the term unilateral reporting. it was real, on the ground reporting. imbedded reporting. you could not do it beyond the first few months. it smartly ando safely. you could not just jump out and hail a cab and off you go. but, you could do it if you had a trusted team, if you had enough humility to trust friends and colleagues,

and to know that is a good story, but i cannot go to falluja right now to do that, and you have to walk away from them, unfortunately. >> it was this trust between iraqi staff and correspondence. we know the country. we can go back home. we can communicate and know what is happening. when they ask us to go to falluja, and we know it is deadly, we would say, it is not a good idea, and they would say, we have to go to falluja. i am saying it is not a good idea. you are afraid to go. i heard this a lot of times. i said, you want to challenge

me. let's go, but if something happens, do not blame me. with time, the trust started to build. we would say it is off-limits, and they would say ok. we became the eyes and ears for some time until things started to cool off a little bit. except for photographers. we could not do it by ourselves. >> it ws kind of self-policing. it worries me because i do not

see the same thing in syriawhere -- syria where we did not like it when someone comes in, a freelancer and takes off in a cab, because that puts us at risk. should that person get kidnapped, it feeds that industry. there was such a backlash one of my colleagues said, i propose we make an army of the journalist. we are going to go kidnap them and teach them a lesson so they did not put all of us at risk. it was serious is this. we did not want them getting us killed. -- serious business.

>> a lot of times they do not know what is happening on the ground. they think it is an easy task. they can talk to whoever they want, and sometimes they do not have anyone to help them, so they just pick up a taxi and say, take me to falluja, so they go there, and they get surprised that people being hostile to reporters, and the unthinkable can happen. >> people got killed that way. when the iraqis said it was time to go, it was time to go. >> this highlights what a vital role our iraqi colleagues played in the process. the most valuable were the iraqis who worked with us. many of them were coming from different backgrounds.

they had a good sense of reading people, reading the street, and you ignored them at your own peril. i could go on endlessly about the number of lives saved because of their incredible thinking. >> all those big stories year after year, the guys that were doing the work on the street were a iraqis. people would check the neighborhood beforehand. they would do preliminary interviews. sometimes they would do all the interviews. >> stepping up at great personal peril. these were individuals who would have to return home to their families, where in many cases they were lying. they were beaten up. in some cases killed. it was only after some years

that the u.s. government finally got around to starting to issue special immigrant visas, and still far too slowly for a number of them. >> congress approved 25,004 iraqi translators that worked with the media, the military. these were eyes and ears on the ground.

4600 were issued today and the program expires in september. that is something forward looking to take from this. we were just talking about the mutual friend of ours that sat out the first round because he believed things would improve and he could stay and work as a journalist. i voted for these guys, this is my community. what is there to fear? he has also applied for this resettlement option. we thought, one day our bureaus will shutter and we will all go home. the public's attention will shift elsewhere as it has. the free press, the probing press, the independent press. all of its maybe the entire

staff, the ones still alive have fled. there are in the ukraine and atlanta, massachusetts. we have not left a bad legacy. we were a bureau that were in between on slow days, her talking about journalism, that their own. they would do all their own stories. none of it exists anymore. >> what prompted you to put this focus group together? and these incredibly compelling and arresting images over the weekend? the degree to which people react

differently to some of these images over the passage of time help us understand the feedback you have received, when and whether some of these difficult to look at images, it is less vital to see because they depict the truth of war. how does the prospective change? are we able to look at imagery of the iraq war, her very difficult to get published in the early years of conflict? >> the answer is simple. how was not seeing my history of the war reflected. the american people in particular, i am learning all the from my colleagues.

i think it applies to a lot of journalists i saw stanley greene today. it is really like the burned and charred bodies of the american contractors killed their in 2004. there is a crowd of people stepping on them and emulating them. there was no way we were going to get these pictures published. i asked the photographers why they took them, they said that

we take them for history. we know we can't get it out there now, but sunday, people will be ready to look at this. i am not trying to glorify violence. just the office said. -- opposite. hopefully it will be something that we look at the next time we think about rushing off on a military adventure. i want to say publicly, i have never been to iraq or the middle east. this was a great idea, we will get rid of this guy and install democracy. what can be complicated about that? it did not go so well.

we need to have warning signs that people can muck out for the future. >> if you talk to government officials and power back in 2003, 2005, they would argue that a lot of the intrigue that came out was to defeatist, to focus on the negative. >> most americans have never seen a picture of a dead american soldier.

and going to a cemetery to photograph funerals, they were not allowed. you're not allowed the have a photographer taking the photos of the funeral. if you wanted to have this immortalized, the pentagon said this was off-limits. they were smart about it. it is an issue of privacy for the soldiers, they have the right to privacy. this is what i was told

repeatedly. it was smart because they deposited themselves as defenders of the soldiers and put us in the position of people that wanted this respect the soldiers. this is one of the public undertakings. we were constantly fighting back against that. got it they want it to be depicted for what it is. >> we got this all the time. we said this was bullshit. i don't want to make it sound like -- the u.s. military is not monolithic at all. a lot of them are smart, progressive, a lot of the young

captives unharmed, one guy had a rock band in berlin before he was arrested. you run up against these lieutenants and they are totally smart. we want the american people to see what is going on. you tell the story of going from unit to unit and some say that you can't take a picture. i don't want to see a hangnail on my soldiers, nothing.

she would go to another unit. she finally got to a unit where they said we don't have the things that we need and we need you to show people in washington what it is we are up against. >> i have been monopolizing a lot of time here. and number of you that have spent time out there, the people here, incredibly engaged in this set of issues, can you please wait for the microphone to come to you? keep your questions brief, that would be great. >> can you talk about where the breakdown occurs as far as what the pictures are not being published? you have the state department,

the department of defense preventing that. there is also the equation of the news organizations. can you talk about that process? if we can identify where the breakdown is, maybe we can address it. >> that is a tough one. we fought with editors to get more powerful motivations. editors did not want to publish these photos and it's a people don't want to see this. i heard this constantly from different editors around the world. and what is it that i sent back, maybe the most graphic photo i have ever taken. a guy just behind me of staff donald land mine and was cut in half. -- stepped on a landmine and was cut in half. not only was the image not published, but it had been put under lock and key, nobody could even access this photo. it was not just the military.

there was no clamor from the american people. that is just iraq. people have to step up and put pressure on the news organizations and the editors. >> i have been in this situation before. sometimes we have to stay longer than photographers. we have to take our time taking pictures. i would travel several times and the gunfire -- into gunfire between american contractors and snipers. we got great pictures and took them back to the office, and we sent them to paris. they don't shoot them and they say because there are lots of bodies.

>> where is the line? we don't need burning bodies him the paper every day. we do need them occasionally. >> it is becoming a mood debate because of the expanded television, have you really want to see what it looks like, you can now. with the growth of the al jazeera brand, they don't shy away what it looks like on the receiving end. >> that is the difference between going out and actively confronting people occasionally with the true orders of this. -- true horrors of this. >> i work in a journalist assistance program and i was wondering if you could talk about what we learned from iraq, as far as going out of afghanistan al.

>> i will take a stab at that one and kick it over to my fellow panelists. the visa program does not apply for afghans working for u.s. organizations. a very gray translator for the washington post, there was no legal pathway. it was eight or nine years. growing threats of intimidation because they were for u.s. news organizations there. even for afghans that were not all news organizations but for international forces there, it is a nato mission and not a u.s. mission. you have a number of afghans that work for u.s. forces in eligible. there are legislative fixes under way, here it is still at an embryonic state right now.

there are few were journalists working for western news organizations. the sad reality of the war. they just don't have the same pathways. for those that apply to two or three years ago it gets caught up in this sort of limbo, what is being called a security review. this is great example is the 70- year-old mother that has been left in security review for two years. >> what he said. >> it will take a long time. it is a bit complicated. i came on a special visa. i was visiting at a university in chapel hill. i was informed there was a special program that can grant them. where can i apply? they said you can't. i am in the states and i have come home -- they said that you have to do it there. in july of 2009, i got my visa

of august 2012. i was supposed to arrive in july 1. they called the and they said your flight has been cancelled. they said we have no idea why. your last medical check was done on july 15 and since it is only 14 days left, you have to do it again. i had sold my car, my furniture, almost my house and that only my luggage and my family waiting to get more on the plane. they said it has been cancelled. these are the difficulties they are facing. >> people that work for the new york times did not get a lot of support for the government once they got here.

i have friends that workhorse, we were covering combat together in different places and she got her visa. one month later, she got a job at macy's for minimum wage. she was working in the shoe department. i think that they got $500 a month for rent. you are on your own now. >> he's people are coming here with their entire families. a lot of them don't speak english. >> really urging them to use of the news organizations, a lot of them who were settled during the recession. they are being taken by out of work americans. it is really overwhelming. they're coming with the hot trauma of 10 years of vicious sectarian war and occupation. you can't really trust some of the placement. staying in baghdad for the shiite militias, who decided to place him when he comes to the states. this set, here we go, here is a spot in the apartment. that is not going to work.

he did not have anywhere to turn if he did not have his colleagues checking up on him. >> i consider myself one of the lucky ones. i consider myself lucky. it was something like $3,000 or $5,000 a month. now we are hardly making $1,000. just the others so that we can feed our families. why did we come here? we can make money or probably die. >> maybe my kids will benefit from this. >> they run the iraq refugees assistance project that is affiliated with yale here in new york that has been helpful for a number of organizations. we're helping to navigate this very complicated bureaucracy. i am sure she would be willing to enter them. -- answer them. >> i'm anne cooper, and i wanted to ask you to talk more about

what the media is like, the content of the media -- >> the iraqi media? >> yes. how does it compare with saddam hussein's time? can you find out more? can you figure out what is really going on? >> we used to have one party, it controlled most of the media outlets. they used to say the same thing and use the same speech. right now, we have 340 registered political parties. each one of those parties has its own newspaper, radio station, and its own tv channel. these parties have different positions when it comes to the occupation of what is happening in iraq. so let's give an example. some of these newspapers call them insurgents. some of them are called resistance.

if you are in my place, which one would you believe? it means they have to choose which one is closer to what you think and you are and where you come from. and then by all the others even if they are telling the truth. his his his this is the situation right now. it is all built over political views and political agendas. >> one of the main channels, even within their own messaging, sometimes it is different. when he is speaking against portia, it will say -- shia, it will say on the crawl, "anti- shia says this." when he is speaking against americans, it says "nationalist cleric says this." [laughter]

>> maybe taking it a little different direction. i am a medical doctor and also on the faculty of the harvard school of public health. we are interested in the psychological effects of war. i am interested in the effects on journalists. i do a lot of work with walter reed, military troops with significant injuries and incredible visible wounds of war. i am sure this is your sensitivity and your presence, it has an important impact on your view. i am wondering if anyone is asking about the health of journalists, to be able to sustain yourself and do that work.

the emotional aspect of dealing with conflict. >> we have seen a lot of horrific stuff over the last decade. >> i feel like my experience mirrors some of my friends that our soldiers -- are soldiers.. some guys don't want to admit the their commander what they're going through because they will not get picked for the next mission. word gets out that you are not dealing with it well, you know. i kept things down. i did not talk about it. nobody gets away for free. you deal with a lot of shit. i don't want to talk about it too much. >> they were telling that in recent years, the end of deployment outbriefs where people are given the opportunity to start to talk about some of that stuff. most don't have an infrastructure like that. it's not let's talk about what you saw, it is how has this affected you?

>> whir and as for employers and editors that need to -- they have done a fantastic job photographic and reporting. you don't want to be seen as weaker than. you find other outlets. we were dreading the fourth of july coming because of the fireworks. i hate it. the kids are going to want to see fireworks and i don't want to do it. there is a song out, and know your friends. that is how it feels. you can't get close to them mediase it is really hard.

>> one of the main channels, even within their own messaging, sometimes it is different. when he is speaking against portia, it will say -- shia, it will say on the crawl, "anti- shia says this." when he is speaking against americans, it says "nationalist cleric says this." [laughter] >> maybe taking it a little different direction. i am a medical doctor and also on the faculty of the harvard school of public health.

we are interested in the psychological effects of war. i am interested in the effects on journalists. i do a lot of work with walter reed, military troops with significant injuries and incredible visible wounds of war. i am sure this is your sensitivity and your presence,

it has an important impact on your view. i am wondering if anyone is asking about the health of journalists, to be able to sustain yourself and do that work. the emotional aspect of dealing with conflict. >> we have seen a lot of horrific stuff over the last decade. >> i feel like my experience mirrors some of my friends that our soldiers -- are soldiers.. some guys don't want to admit the their commander what they're going through because they will not get picked for the next mission. word gets out that you are not dealing with it well, you know. i kept things down.

i did not talk about it. nobody gets away for free. you deal with a lot of shit. i don't want to talk about it too much. >> they were telling that in recent years, the end of deployment outbriefs where people are given the opportunity to start to talk about some of that stuff. most don't have an infrastructure like that. it's not let's talk about what you saw, it is how has this affected you? >> whir and as for employers and editors that need to -- they have done a fantastic job photographic and reporting.

you don't want to be seen as weaker than. you find other outlets. we were dreading the fourth of july coming because of the fireworks. i hate it. the kids are going to want to see fireworks and i don't want to do it. there is a song out, and know your friends. that is how it feels. you can't get close to them because it is really hard.

isaudio of the entire event available on the organizers website. a conference on global education, the former head discusses the difficulty of education to children, especially addressing the syrian civil war. >> we cannot say that everything was rosy. worldwide, the number of children school drop from 100 million in 2000 to 60 million in 2008 to 67 million in 2011. more good news. two problems with

this. first, progress is slowing. in africa, it is -- it is flatlining. second, this problem is by passing children in conflict. attacks on education shows, these children account for around one quarter of the world i marry school-aged population, but about half of those out of school. what is more, they account for a greater chair of children out of school today than they did a few years ago. up from 42% in 2008. the impact is appalling. children are nearly three times more likely to be out of primary school than children another low income countries. secondary enrollment rates are nearly one third lower. these countries have some of the largest gender disparities in the lowest litter -- literacy rates in the world. schools are still in the firing line with classroom, teachers, and people seen as legitimate

targets are caught in the crossfire. a couple of examples. in june of this year, unicef estimated the education of 700,000 children had been disrupted by the conflict over the past 12 months. syria, the conflict that chattered almost universal primary enrollment. this year,t of almost 400,000 schools were destroyed, occupied for use for things other than education. 22,000 schools were unusual for educational purposes. 1500 schools have been destroyed in one place alone. >> on c-span tomorrow, the center for american progress looks for signs of public school districts and the trend of consolidation is good or bad for students. live coverage beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. on c-span2, the reserve officers

association holds its national security summit. topics include national security threats, healthcare, and defense department budget cuts. live coverage begins at 8:00 a.m. eastern. >> 150 years ago, our nation was engaged in a civil war. our nation was reminded of its revolutionary path -- past. one of the entries began, "listen my children and you shall hear of the midnight ride of paul revere." , the revered name is being elevated. at the same time, the revered -- the name is being chastised because of one of paul of the armyndsons of the potomac.

he is up for a court-martial for his actions at the historic battle in virginia in early may 1863. grandson of one of our revolutionary war heroes get in such a mess? >> the life of general joseph revere saturday night just pass 11:00 eastern, part of american history tv every weekend on c- span3. >> c-span. we bring public affairs events from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings, and conferences, and offering complete gavel-to-gavel the u.s. house, all as a public service of private industry, c-span, created by the cable industry 30 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. you can now watch us in hd.

>> here, a live look at the iwojima memorial next arlington national cemetery. a good setting for the topic on tonight's c-span town hall as we talk about war coverage. the pulitzer prize-winning photograph inspire that statue. there are policy issues as well, holding around. a couple of ways for you to participate, calling us. we are also on facebook.com/cspan. we posed the question earlier about the the you read or watch in terms of war reporting.

you use the hashtag on twitter if you want to send tweets. members of congress are in recess until september 9. some of the reactions that we opposed to an hour ago or so. this one is from jay. what war, the press is covering obama's leno appearance. mainstream media does the coverage of the war is nonexistent. the only show what they want to see. we'll have a couple of guests. in just a minute, will talk to a national security correspondent for the washington times.

she just got back from afghanistan and can update us on the situation there. if you have been watching c-span for a while, you might have seen some of the reporting from david to has been covering the conflict in afghanistan and iraq over the last 10 years or so. other stories include the continuing story of president obama decision not to meet with vladimir putin. the headline on fox this evening, the president won't be meeting.

a reaction from russia posted ha, they are disappointed by the president's decision. he will be going to the g-20. they were disappointed that president obama has canceled a bilateral summit with the russian president scheduled for september. he said obama still has a standing invitation. they said that the snub showed that the united states was not prepared for equal relations with russia. the white house announced the president would not travel to moscow. it was planned ahead of the meeting in russia. the continuing story on the threats of the united states, a headline this evening in the washington post. they have for today terror plot, officials still on high alert. authorities say that they thwarted able to plot to disrupt the country's economic lifeline by attacking strategic southern ports. it was not immediately clear if it was the attack alluded to intercepted by intelligence agencies last week.

we will hear from our guests at the washington times. we did want to play the comments related to that story, president obama addressing the issue. >> the end of the war in afghanistan does not mean the end of threats to our nation. even as we decimated when the leadership that attack us on 9/11, affiliate's and like- minded extremists still threaten our homeland, still threaten our diplomatic facilities and our businesses abroad. we have to take these threats seriously and do all we can to confront the problem. we have been reminded of this in recent days. i want to take special time out to salute the brave diplomats and military personnel who have been working around the clock to

safeguard his fellow americans serving overseas, including the marines standing guard around the world. they are doing an outstanding job. [applause] as for these extremists, this is what those who would attack us don't get. the united states is never going to retreat from the world. we don't get terrorized.

we will keep standing up to our interests. we'll keep standing up for human rights and for people wherever they lived. we will keep working with our allies and our partners to offer a future of hope and progress.

like generations before us, the united states of america is going to remain the greatest force for freedom that the world has ever known. you are an integral part of that. this is not just a job for our military. it takes trade, intelligence to stay true to our values as a nation. the world is going through big changes. we have to have a military strategy to protect ourselves. it does mean keeping our military as the absolute best in the world. >> at this is a live look at the marine corps memorial, the iwo jima memorial outside washington.

we will talk about the issue of how is covering the media. back in may, she returned to a visit. >> thanks for having me on. >> you have been with the washington times for a year-and- a-half and you have come back. and what was the biggest challenge there? >> the biggest challenge was getting where i wanted to get to and covering the story as i wanted to cover. i could not get to places and cover the afghan police and other types of things that i wanted to. that was probably the biggest challenge out there. >> talking about the president's

appearance today, he said our war will be over in afghanistan. how close are we to that goal? >> i spent a lot of time covering that when we were in afghanistan. there will be trainers until 2017 if not until 2024. when the president talks about the war drawing down, we don't know what the presence will look like. the combat mission ends in 2014 but there will likely be training much longer than that. i see how long it takes to

train. pilots have to undergo a year of training, and you have to factor that in. those types of capabilities, who that is not going back and by 2014. >> will talk about how the media covers wars. she writes for the washington times. let's go to our phone calls. >> i noticed in the last program, there was a couple of journalists, and they did not indicate too much that could be done to get the coverage improved a must we have a constituency demanding it.

what about the veterans be that the constituency to really push the administration and the army and everyone to make war real for the american public. i am 68 years old and i want to know what we are doing. i am learning more every day with what we're doing with the empire of bases. shouldn't that be the ones that help us out of this? >> when you talk about war coverage, who is your primary source? >> russia today is my best source. >> the tv network. >> who do i trust? they are one of my most reliable sources. >> any comments? >> i think it is interesting

that she relies on coverage from russia today rather than american media. i am glad she is interested in war coverage. there is a little bit of fatigue from the american public. it used to be the top topic. now it is topic three or four. when you have a little bit of a demand for news on the war in afghanistan. >> she talked about the constituency, too. what does it look like for the news report or the war reporting business? >> if there is a robust readership and i think that is great. you do get a lot of veteran response, and that is great. it would be nice if there was more of the demand of the than veteran communities, but they are driving demand on war reporting. >> chloe and miami beach. >> i am old enough to have followed how our media has covered wars.

when i was in college, we came the june to the fact that the war was going very badly from watching walter cronkite at the time. our government figured out it was not good have a lot of coverage. so they kept the journalists in a cage. it is fascinating to see how things evolve. building up to afghanistan and the invasion of iraq, the excuse of 9/11. they said that journalistic skepticism was over and it was

now patriotism. i think the american media felon to that trap of you are with us or against us. the skepticism that should of been warning us, and the politicians of fell into that trap. they advocated, especially the media. i remember will floods are being so excited because the

production values, it is like a movie. they loved it. there is no critical analysis of art history. all of that was absent. it was about spectacle, entertainment, and patriotism. i think it did us all a lot of harm. i turn to foreign media because i think american media are about ratings and sensation. they don't really cover the world. >> any reaction to her use? >> i think newspapers and websites have a little less pressure to sensationalize things. there are other types of internet media outlets. as far as censorship and that type of thing, he mentioned it was very difficult to cover the

things i wanted to cover. i let the coalition know what stories i wanted to cover weeks in advance. for some reason, when i got to afghanistan, i was able to cover the stories because i told there was not enough time to a range it. -- arrange it. you are reliant on the military for protection. there are times when i did not feel like i could get to the truth because of the security situation and having to rely on the military.

the national security force ceremony, i was taken to class's. i felt like i was pretty heavily monitor the whole time. i am not sure if that factors -- i am sure it factors and how much we can do, but is up to us to be able to report the truth. >> your frustration is echoed by the panelists that we just showed, the photojournalist that talked about what he called the censorship of his attempts to cover issues in iraq. >> we probably lost 5000 americans over there.

most have never seen a picture of a dead american soldier. even at arlington, when the families invited photographers to the cemetery to photograph generals, they were not allowed. he are not allowed to have a photographer to photograph the funeral. if you saw this as a tribute and you wanted to have this memorialized, the pentagon said he could not photograph funerals.

they were smart about it. they were couched in this thing, an issue of privacy for the soldiers. it was smart because they were positing themselves as defenders of the soldiers and put us in the position of people that wanted to disrespect the soldiers. that wasn't it at all. if you're going to enlist in the military and invade someone's country, that is not a private event. >> our discussion about media coverage of war, this is not his tweet but a fan of edward snowden. our hashtag is #cspanchat.

christina wong covers defense issues for the times. >> hello, i just listened to the program that was on a while ago, too. i think, in my opinion, i will take issue with your last two callers because i think there is too much news. the journalist from a person that was on a little bit ago said that we have never seen it that americans or something like that. so he took pictures of guys that were blown in half and all of this stuff. he wanted these to be shown and they did not show them.

he said because they were too graphic. that is part of the problem. with the men that were fighting the war have to look over their shoulder i don't know if it was iraqi. because he worked for the u.s. in journalism over there, he was threatened and wanted to leave and come to this country. he thought that he should get a visa immediately and it took him three years for that to happen. and you want to trust them.

you are an integral part of that. that is what you do, serving in uniform every single day. but this is not just a job for our military. it takes diplomacy, development, trade, intelligence, to stay true to our values as a nation. this is a complicated time.

the world is going through changes. we have to have a military strategy to protect ourselves. we have also got to lead with our values and our ideals and all elements of our power. but, it does mean keeping our military the absolute best in the world. we have got to be vigilant about that. there is a war in afghanistan -- as it ends, it is true, our military and marine corps will be leaner. but this will be tighter. it is only natural. part of ending a war responsibly is moving off a perpetually wartime footing. it is time to use some of the money we have been spending on were to do nationbuilding at home. but, what we cannot do is repeat the mistakes of history.

we have seen in the past, where, after a war, we hollowed ut our military. we left our military nprepared. we have got, right now, the best led, best trained, best equipped know terry in human history -- military in human history. the finest exhibition area group in the world. as long as i am commander in chief, i will keep it that way. o do that, we are going to need help out of ashington. congress could not agree on a lan to reduce the deficit in what i consider a sensible way. instead, what we have got is

these take, across-the-board cuts called the sequester. the sequester kicked in. it included defense. we are already seeing the effects. here at camp pendleton, you are feeling it. our working folks are getting furloughed. families getting by on less. fewer ships available for your training exercises. we can do better than that. that is not how a great nation should be treating its military and military families. by the way, cuts in other nondefense areas in the budget affect our troops and military families as well. our military -- part of what makes us best is we have got extraordinary recruits. if we want the best qualified recruits, we should not be cutting investments in education. we should be increasing our investment in education.

our wounded warriors, our veterans, depend on new technologies for the recovery nd their healthcare. we should not be slashing investments in science and medical research. we should continue to be the world leader in science and esearch. that is why i will keep on working to get rid of the sequester. you do your jobs every day. let's make sure washington does its job. what makes me frustrated ometimes, the very folks who say they stand with our military proudly, the same ones who are standing in the way of ixing the sequester. it is important to look at deeds and not words. keep in mind, it is true for

our national security, we have always got to make sure we are dealing with our deficits and debt. our economy is strong. that means the military is strong. if our economy is weak, it weakens our military. our deficit is falling at the fastest rate in decades. we cut them in half. they keep on moving in the right direction in that context. congress needs to agree on a responsible plan that reduces our deficit but also keeps our military strong. also investing in education. also investing in research. also investing in infrastructure. that's what you deserve. that's what your families deserve. that's what i'm fighting for. that is my commitment to you. keeping a military strong require something else. that is taking care of our extraordinary wounded warriors. here at pendleton, you are doing extraordinary work.

for those who can, we want to get our troops back to where they want to be. for those with traumatic brain injuries, we're going to to make unprecedented investments in new care and treatments. for those suffering with posttraumatic stress, we are going to keep saying it as loud as we can -- it is not a sign of weakness to ask for help. it is a sign of strength. we are here to help you recover, stand tall again. we got to make sure we're doing everything we can for our wounded warriors and i'm pleased to see the hospital here is making progress. that's going to be an outstanding new facility that will be helpful. keeping a military strong means insuring the safety of everyone who puts on the uniform. no military can succeed without discipline, trust, ohesion.

i want you to hear it directly rom me, the commander in chief. t undermines what this military stands for and it undermines what the marine corps stands for when sexual assault takes place within our units. that is why we are going to work together -- all of us -- to stop these crimes of sexual assault and uphold the honor and integrity that defines the inest military on earth. that message is coming all the ay from the top. keeping our military strong means keeping our military family strong.

michelle and joe biden's wife, dr. jill, they have made this their mission. because of their efforts, joining forces, more americans are stepping up to support your families. that includes more companies hiring our talented military spouses. after everything you've done for america, every american ought to be doing something to support your families. as the time of war ends, some of you will be kicking off the uniform and returning to civilian life. just as we gave you the tools to succeed on the battlefield, we ought to make sure we are giving you the tools to succeed in the next stages of your life as well. we have improved transition assistance. we want to find you a job that is worthy of your skills.

we are helping you and your family pursue your education nder the post-9/11 g.i. bill and making sure that instead of ripping you off, schools give you the education you paid for and they are being held accountable. we are making sure more states and more industries are recognizing your military skills with licenses and credentials you need for civilian jobs. when i first came into office, i was meeting medics who have been treating people on the battlefield and they went back to school to be a nurse, they had to start all over again in nursing 101. here they are dealing with some of the worst injuries possible and they are not getting any credit for it which means it's costing them time and money. we are changing all of that. if you have done the job on the battlefield with bullets coming at you, you can sure as heck do that job back here in the nited states of america.

we issued a challenge to the private sector and so far american businesses have hired or trained 290,000 veterans and military spouses. they have committed to hiring hundreds of thousands more. more vets are finding jobs. the unemployment rate for debts is coming down. we are going to keep saying to every company in america, if you want someone who knows how to get the job done, hire a veteran. hire a veteran. your generation carried us through this time of war and you're going to help us write the next great chapter in american history, right here at ome. few embody that truth more than a memory in who is here today,

captain matthew langford. he is one of our marine special operators. he and his team were in afghanistan cleaning out a compound. in a terrible instance, and ied took both of his legs. matt survived. soon, he had a new mission -- getting back to his unit, adding back to his team. once a marine, always a arine. that endured excruciating rehab, therapy that could last all day, month after month, rebuilding his strength. recovery was slow. taking his first shaky steps on prosthetics, a new pair of knees, full legs taking him back to full height, stepping forward with two canes, then just one, then non-learning to

walk again, learning to run in his uniform, then body armor. 18 months after he was injured and lost both legs, matt, a double-amputee, returned to his unit and redeployed to afghanistan. for a time, he even served as team leader. today, they're preparing for their next appointment to the pacific. his wife, camille, also a marine, is working to become a test pilot because she likes to ly aggressively.

this inspiring marine couple is looking ahead to serving their country for many years to come. matt and camille, please wave. thank you so much. thank you so much. you know, there are stories like matt and camille's through the marine corps. they represent what is best in our marine corps. emper fidelis. that is the meaning of your life, always faithful, always faithful to each other, the few and the proud, always faithful to the call for 237 years. always faithful to your country, for whom you where the eagle.

after all you have given to our nation, you have to know that your nation will always be faithful to you. as your commander in chief, that is my commitment to you. that is the commitment america must uphold to you and your families for all of the years to come. semper fi. god bless you all. god bless the marine corps. god bless the united states of america. â forever"] â national cable satellite corp. 2013] national captioning institute]

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>> today on c-span, discussion about the efforts to refwilled ♪ libya. then "washington journal" live with your phone calls and the center for american progress holds a conversation about public school districts. on c-span today the center for american progress looks at the size of american school districts. if the size is good or bad for students. we'll have live coverage beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. then the reserve officers association holds its national security summit. the topics will include veterans health care and the department defense cuts. live coverage begins at 8:00 a.m. eastern. >> i am not some sort of anti-suburb person who thinks

everybody needs to live in new york city. i was very sense ti to come across as a condo-dwelling elitist of some kind. that's not why i did this book. i understand why people like suburbs. i get fed up with the daily live of new york city sometimes but the fact that there's a shift in the way suburban america is per received by the people that live there is too big of a story to ignore. > on c-span two. >> c-span. we bring public affairs from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events and briefings and conferences and offering

complete gavel-to-gaffle coverage all as a service of private industry. we're c-span created by the private industry and funded by your local cable or satellite provider and now you can watch us in h.d. >> non-governmental organizations in libya are working to improve civil society after the end of the civil war and representatives from some of those groups discuss their efforts and events in washington. this is 1 1/2 hours. >> good afternoon, everybody. i am the director from the middle east north africa program you're in this organization. we are pleased to host this event on the role of civil society in libya's transition. our panel today is being live streamed by c-span. i would ask you to silence all cell phones or any other objects that make noise, including small children, if

anybody brought any eerie little dogs, whatever. thank you. today, this event is cosponsored by the libya group. this group is organized earlier this year. under the auspices of the aherey centerin cooperation with freedom house and the project on middle east democracy. it brings together a group of very diverse people concerned with and knowledgeable about libya, including representatives from the think tank world, the ngo community, academic specialists, and business people. many of them, libyan americans. the purpose is to exchange knowledge on and build an awareness in libya. the reason why we identify this as an important lead is because libya was a small population and should become an important success story, not only in

north africa, but among arab spring transitional countries n general. the consequences of a earlier in libya are essential. a failed state that could spread instability far beyond its waters. it is a country that will have a major impact on u.s. policy interest in the middle east. we think should be viewed as such, both in and beyond. e witnessed power from the national transitional console. since then, growing political chaos, a deteriorating security situation, and the crisis of confidence in government institutions, has really combined to deal a serious blow to the democratic transition. most recently, the country was rocked by the murder of a human rights advocate. the 61st victim of a political assassination in libya since

he end of the civil war. he says this averages out to 12 -- 21 foot ago assassination every 12 days. the assassination was followed by a prison break in benghazi, attacks, and the resignations of senior libyan lyrical leaders. libya's problems go even deeper, as most of you are aware your it hundreds of armed roots have laid a destabilizing role in libyan politics are notoriously, the general national congress, which it to pass a in a and destabilizing a exclusion law aimed at is of the former gadhafi -- at

members of the former gadhafi regime. the crisis of security we have seen playing out has also been accompanied by a crisis of governments. it is widely seen as paralyzed and unresponsive, and delays, most notably, the roadmap to graphing the constitution, development of the electoral law, the graphing committee, and writing the constitution itself. there are real costs to all of these crises. instability in libya threatens the transition, but also significant instability in north africa. libya has emerged as a key route for the illegal smuggling of arms. mainly aimed at transitioning toward europe. a bright spot in all of this has been the emergence of civil society in libya. estimates vary, as there has been no formal senses of the population in the country.

anywhere from several hundred to several thousand organizations have sprung up in the country, starting even before gadhafi's demise with the liberation of the earn part of the country. the organizations are involved in a broad array of issues, environmental concerns, to civic education and discourse, women's right, and promotion of civic and political -- liberties. in a country rife with political problems, they can and do play a key role in the liberating demands, and then presenting them to the central government. n the absence of effective overnance, civil society can play a key role focusing attention on issues which really do matter for the daily lives of libyans. civil society is forced to play a key role in libya's troubled

but ongoing democratic -- these -- democratic transition. but these organizations face challenges, including a lack of domestic funding for their activities, surprising considering libya's oil wealth but a major concern. this is an entry point for international assistance. they want the assistance from and ties to the international community. this is one of the best opportunities the international community has to help the old a stable and democratic libya. we are very fortunate to have a traffic panel with us today to discuss the broader issues of the situation inside libya today. let me start with the gentleman to my left. the founder and president of the citizenship forum for democracy and development in enghazi.

he has been a long-standing democracy advocate and frequently contributes to international media outlets on the topic of libya. he's the executive director of the political development form from 2004 2010. from 2006 2 2009, he was the washington program director at the center for study of islam and democracy. the president and cofounder of the new libyan foundation, through incubation centers that serve as office and training space. t also supports emerging civil society constitution network of approximately 907 organizations, to ensure the

principles of inclusiveness and transparency are enshrined in the constitution grafting process. finally, we have joyce joining us, a program officer. she currently serves as a member of the iraq and north africa programs. from 2010 -- 2012, she worked in iraq. and managing u.s. ip's. she has conducted field research in rwanda and egypt, and has worked in the field for many unity based, nongovernmental organizations. focused on conflict transformation and litigation. with that, i would like to turn it over to our panel. >> thank you. first of all, i would like to thank the team for giving us this opportunity to speak to

activists in civil society environment in the. it goes without saying i have to also think my daughter. she has been a massive encouragement. to speak to you about libya is to speak to you about my heart. working for libya has been the story of my life. even when i fled the country after being tortured and kicked out of the university, i continued to work with activists to combat the regime and create an opening opportunity for our people in libya. i would like to thank you for the national endowment for democracy, because they have

been, in the last 10 years, backing us in our work. thank you. to talk to you about the role of civil society today, this eemed like a far-fetched possibility two years ago. those who know the situation in libya, we combat the regime for many years. to see its end suddenly, the way it had, was beyond our imaginations. the fight for freedom in libya started in 1969 area i am a witness of that personally. it manifested in a new forum during february, 2011. many people sacrificed their lives, for the deliberation of libya.

even with the turbulent transition we are seeing, i just wanted to share this reflection with you. with regard to the current environment in libya, i will touch base on a few points, then try to emphasize. the security issue is number one, number two, and number three in the country. we have the armed groups, who are really the defect oh our -- de facto power in our country. we have a nation army in the nate -- in the making. they have not been able to take our -- take charge of the country. we have attacks on police stations and jailbreaks and other things. in benghazi a loan, over 50 incidents of assassinations, unfortunately.

i think you all are aware of t. the perpetrators of these crimes have not been brought to justice, or we have not yet received any information of who has done these things. here is a large? there has been a large question mark of who has been behind these things. an unfortunate political eyes nation, which led to the resignation. two of the most notable leaders in libya, they seem to be, made the decision, it is better to resign then to be kicked out. elected for the first time, minority members, the president.

a small minority there in libya. the election is a positive sign libya does recognize it has qual rights. the passing of the over delayed for the community, it went through a lot of hardships and ups and downs. and then it was done, not many people were happy with it but it was it self a landmark. we would see the results of t. now we would be working on the election of the committee of the constitution, but it is a major point in the history of the building of libya.

the recognition of the culture and languages, the forum weeks go, it really gave people some of their god given rights. that is something we cherish and appreciate. we come in the aegean sea, two major political blocs. the coalition of the national forces, the party for justice, linked to the muslim brotherhood. both of them did make very strong statements. that they would be acting as individuals and they would not

receive any orders. what we have from the aegean sea, only small parties, or other small parties with one or two members. the drastic decision was made that they are all independent members and do not have any political allegiance, or any linkage with them and their party. the cleaning up of the aegean sea not started yet, because of the with close nation alone. that is something we are still waiting the committee to implement. it has just started working.

we would have to see what would be the result of the government of members who would be considered to be not acceptable according to the law. as for the government, those who are following the news, in one of the best sources of information for news about libya, you can see the inability of prime minister to govern has been quite clear. there are so many calls for him to step down. his failure to provide even basic services are now considered -- many members of the gnc are calling for the change for the prime minister there. he has been set back also by the designation of some members. the most astounding was the resignation of his first

deputy, one of the best democrats that worked in libya since the beginning of the evolution. it is the one they give the continuing of the restoration there. he said he cause of the inability to share power, he is resigning because of that. people are increasing skepticism against political parties and i think it is ecause of the culture, partisan politics against democracy, and, whoever is a member of the party is a traitor of the country. 40 years of indoctrination cannot be wiped out in one or two years and plus, they have not learned yet how to exist nd work with businesses.

the consensual culture of democracy has not yet taken live -- taken roots in libya. that is one of the reasons why there is skepticism. there are people feeding the skepticism. it is being supported by the onstruction. liberal lists and secularist are supported, it goes around and around. t is just hearsay. hearsay and rumors do move the streets sometimes. people are becoming unhappy with the government and the because of the lack of productivity.

we will have seen the members of the gnc were failing to act according to what they expected them to do. i always tell them, trainees, when they work with me, as we are, we will produce our members. the verdicts are contrary to our society. we have to be with them until hey learn to work according to the norms of political work. just to touch base, my major work is that civil society is really the brightest society in libya. as you know, civic activity ivic society organizations and media outlets, the only ngo's that existed were those that

were charitable in nature and orked with a regime. and gaddafi's family. nittany type of association rganization would bannish it by death. any linkage to political parties. associations embedded in distinct structure and carefully monitored, existed in place of independence unions -- labor unions and organizations. since the uprising in benghazi in february, 2011, and new libyan civic arena was to build itself from scratch, from zero. during the revolution, civil society plays an important role in humanitarian relief, and assistance, working with refugees, sustaining efforts to

provide basic services such as medical services. we also witness social political activities, media outlets, from one weekly state newspaper, to 100 unique publications in the city of benghazi. benghazi became the top of these activities for 24/7. there was no letdown until a downfall of benghazi. he city was buzzing with -- until the downfall of gaddafi. the city was buzzing with visitors, activist, media people, it was really the olden days of the city of benghazi. some of you have seen the benghazi uprising. on al jazeera. it really showed the people

were engaged in the whole of some work to bring down the dictator. it was a revolution in may 2000 in which i attended -- my work focused on democracy, education, and political development. since then, the center for citizenship forum united close to 40 workshops around the country. we have successfully trained over 1500 participants, and among them are member of the gnc. they covered the basic pencils of democracy and compatibility with values. with the end of gaddafi, a regime which started off as a

group of people working together informally, began to evelop structurally. and soon, organizations were formed. i have to cut short. there is also a nice and wonderful example of civil society organizations taking care of all issues. n example is women in ming ghazi decided to clean up the situation by bringing back at the traffic lights and giving it to drivers -- that is one of the examples of creative working. here were also people who took are of cleaning up the mess in the public squares, bringing chairs and flowers so people

could sit in them. volunteering. the evolution of civil society in a short timeframe has empowered the mission. it has led people to see it is not up to the government to do everything. this is a new culture. he people have started to say, it was done by the private sector, not the government. -- have really changed in many ways. in terms of numbers, cso's in benghazi, evan hundred 50. small city in the cornerstone, more than 50 members of the civil society organizations. talking about benghazi, we show how civil society mobilized and took the life of ambassador

chris stevens, who was considered to be a champion of the libyan post. merican activist and civilians like condemned the attack. roups organizing -- a stronger movement in benghazi, as the counterparts. when they decided it should be cleansed from all military presence. they are still working on this. with -- what does the civil society in libya need? financial and technical resources first and foremost. even though it is a rich country, it has not captured itself on how to support civil

society organizations. international players are still in need of support in the financial side of civil society in libya. these resources can be funded by the libyan government if it were done in a better way. again with the international center, bold movement for democracy, and also a network of democrats, two major works in benghazi -- how to -- working to bring this worse is -- e are still working on it. him to find that civil society must continue to work. in conclusion, what we can all agree upon is that it's such challenging times, civil society is the key to getting libby's momentum back.

supporting the development and work of civil society is a n-win situation for everyone wanting to contribute to libya. it is time to make it a priority again, and take it more seriously so that their work can move to the next level. > thank you very much. >> my presentation is going to be relatively short. i have 10 minutes. and then i figure you all have a lot of questions. i would like to give an overview of the situation from the eyes of a citizen on the ground. there has been an increase in ripoli in the absence of law enforcement or rule of law. people have taken lawn to their

own hands. unfortunately, this is something citizens are relying on to maintain the peace. there is an x collation into into the on militias fighting, with firearms every day, in certain areas. people are learning to avoid these areas, and have an economic breakdown in those areas. there is a prolonged absence of international priority and nvestors, and it is creating anxiety among citizens who were hoping to see economic growth at this point in time. with the exception of the occasional traffic control, there's a perception of a total void in law-enforcement, and a rule of law. this is pretty much true. generally, local people from tripoli make up 20% of the population because it is the economic and political center

of libya. there is immigration from other immigration. there are a lot of citizens who live in tripoli. they are not from aaa. -- they are not from tripoli. this affects the social nine and make. within civil society, challenges are extremely limited. how to develop a team, how to execute on projects. we see a recurring theme is to have ideas of what they want to do. usually large and elaborate, but little experience on how to xecute on a project, or create a proposal. 90% of ideas will not be taken into implementation phase for that reason. civil society is effective on the local level.

not very affected on a national level. locally the have access to decision-makers. they are present citizens. they carry the voice of the average citizen. they are able to have an impact with local councils. n a national level, you do not see anywhere nearly as effective. there is a deep distrust of unknown groups and people within civil society, as well as the gmc within civil society. no coordination methods for movement. there are the difficulties that existing governments. expectations can be isaligned. most decision-makers to match the have an office locally. they do not have a staff. there is no official website

you can talk to your representatives. after elections, citizens felt there was a representation process. ndeed, there is not. special interest groups are more effective at impacting decision-makers. thanal civil society. there has been no precedence for government and collaboration on a national level towards policy. there are initiatives like the initiatives in the civil society law. they are not -- they have not created a precedent of adopting such legislation. lso, there is a one-year initiative to guarantee that 35% of the constitutional commission is comprised of women.

it was probably the largest initiative in libya. unfortunately, though, when the time came, despite having a great deal of support, it was not considered in the making of the electoral law, and because oftentimes they are a woman, women do not have a special interest group, or arms. it is a matter how organized you are. that was a blow to civil society. in general, the challenge is we see the shortsighted vision for what libya can do. despite the resources, and the manpower, and the position, their leadership is not created a vision that citizens can work towards. the culture inherently goes against an institutional mindset. there must be reformed towards

building a stable democratic institutions, and deliver lay -- and deliver tightly -- deliberately. very emergency, a constant state of emergency, because you on't have the stability. there is no strategy towards communication and public education. one of the things that civil societies are working towards is the promotion of legislation that would guarantee inclusiveness and transparency in the constitution drafting process. one thing that they are looking at positively is the national ublic. national public education office which would engage citizens starting with education on their rights. starting education on with the

constitution is, what representation looks like. how soon they can take part in the process. also, looking at society on a national level. what is required for society to engage. had you create precedents for civil society to become a legitimate means for impacting decision-makers? >> joyce? >> thank you. it is humbling to be on a panel with all of you. i heard about you long before i met you. i have been grateful to work with you since january. just to throw that out for everyone, the familiar faces i am seeing in the audience, i would like to focus on the organizational capacity outside of civil society.