at 9:00 15 a.m., the u.s. census bureau discuss state and local government finances and the health of ♪ host: what do my angelou, sandra day o'connor, jesse jackson and betty ford all have in common? they have all been awarded the presidential honor of freedom. and president obama is named the newest recipient. clinton, loretta lynn, oprah winfrey, and sally ride are among them. who would you nominate for a presidential medal of freedom? share with us this morning on "washington journal to go (202) 585-3880 four republican, (202) 585-3881 for democrats and

(202) 585-3882 for independents. you can also e-mail us or send it via twitter, @cspanwj facebook.com/c-span, or journal@c-span.org is our e-mail address. here is an article from the "hill" newspaper.

host: andy 16 recipients for the newest batch of presidential medal of freedom honorees, president oakland the, opera daniel, sally ride, bayard loretta lynn, kahneman,niel patricia ward, arturo sandoval, gloria steinem, ernie banks. post"rmer "washington editor receiving the medal of freedom. it says here 91 years old, who remains a vice president at large at the newspaper. respected for his tenure at the

editor from 1968 through 1991 during the paper's heyday. some of the other nominees, other winners this year are the late senator daniel anyway of nouye of- i host: 202 is the area code or who would you nominate for the presidential medal of freedom? (202) 585-3880 for republicans, (202) 585-3881 for democrats, and (202) 585-3882 for all others. here is the picture of the presidential medal of freedom. you can see right here. we have already gotten a lot of

comment on our facebook page. we want to share some of those with you now. reno says bradley manning or edward snowden. along with the same julian assange. patrick -- none of the politicians in washington. andsachs says dr. ron paul michael anderson agrees with him on that. carsonsays dr. ben should be awarded the medal of freedom. allison says -- would not give it to clinton, gloria, or oprah. down here it says george zimmerman. one, iin says -- no think this is a waste of taxpayer money, and the president for the time could be better used working with congress to get our country moving again. thehmo says -- all of troops bush sent to their deaths in iraq via his unnecessary war of choice. those are some of the facebook

comments we have received so far. in other news, while we wait on your calls, the u.s. has ordered nonessential staff out of the consulate in pakistan's area. of actuation of nonessential host: "politico" -- recess is not preserved. voters are not so please with the congressional august vacation, with an overwhelming 80% majority claiming that the members host: that is an "politico" this morning. we began with a call from louisiana on our republican

line. linda, who would you like to see nominated? >> i tell you what, i think any of our servicemen should be awarded. disappointed on some of the names. oprah winfrey has never done anything for anybody's freedom. she has, like obama, only done her share to divide the country. i am sick and tired of all the commotion going on in washington with obama. as far as i'm concerned, he does not even have the right to award anybody anything. he needs to be out of office. is linda in louisiana. this is james in rome, georgia. democrats line. medal: i would award the of honor to all of the peacemakers, the people who are trying to stop these wars that are going on. what you learn from this -- the peacemakers are the ones who

shall inherit the earth. all you hear about it the republicans talking about warmongering. john mccain interfering in other people's business and things. need a department of peace. thank you. host: some of the other recipients that president obama has awarded the medal to include senator edward kennedy, sandra day o'connor, sidney cody a -- sidney cody a -- sidney poitier -- of resident george w. doris awardees include day, arnold palmer, tony blair, george tenet, harper lee, brian lamb. josh is in lancaster, california. democrats line. hi, josh. caller: good morning, this is

josh. i'm in monterey california. nominate --ly host: the president did nominate him. caller: yes, well i would definitely give the peace award to him. the reason being is because they -- set up that march in washington. the only reason that martin luther king came along in the picture is because of the fact that he was the one that gave the keynote speech at that particular event. host: josh, what do you know about bayard rustin that you would want to share with the audience? did comen fact, bayard and stay with me for a week one- time peer that is when the governor brown was just coming on board.

and he is an organizer. way back when, they started segregating the army and stuff like that, though -- so bayard played a role into doing that. host: from "politico" -- apple's tim cook, tech execs meet with barack obama to talk surveillance host: pete, des moines,

democrat. presidential medal of freedom, who would you nominate? caller: i would like to nominate jerry garcia. host: why yo>? -- why? caller: because i think he was the most prominent musician of our time. host: and what is your question? caller: does the person have to be alive to be nominated? a lot of posthumous awards are given. caller: ok. thank you, love the show. host: thank you for calling in. irene in the saint pete. caller: hi, how are you? host: i am good, how are you? caller: great. sayt off, i would like to dr. benjamin carson -- host: i should note he has

been awarded the medal of freedom by president w bush. caller: i think he should be nominated the next medal of freedom and the medal te that . he is a very influential person who is someone very big on education, whether it be self education. i really believe dr. carson should be awarded that. furthermore, i think we're focusing too much on the award and is not the process if you are truly dedicated to your craft and what you do, we don't look for awards. we do this because this is what we want to do to further ourselves as americans. host: irene, did you see dr. carson? he was on book tv this past weekend. caller: no, i did not see because i have been very busy because i am also part of the am,tical world where i

which i am actually working with the mayor. --m very busy during that doing that, sorry not to that. but dr. carson is a wonderful asset to america and totality. he is an asset to us. like i said, a person who focuses on the attributes and what the gain is -- personally, you have to focus on the people. it is all about the people. the people are together, everyone is together. host: all right, that is irene. jill -- jimmy post on our facebook page -- the current crop is mostly made up of the ruling class was stowing their own with congratulations for being better than a us little people. liberals got the class they were clamoring for. oprah winfrey?

synnex cockles composer mike in savannah, georgia. -- the next call comes from mike in savannah, georgia. caller: yes, definitely oprah winfrey. not my choice, but she deserves to be nominated. just to answer some of the people calling in about oprah, these are people who listen to rush limbaugh and all the fox people who tend to divide people. they do not call those people out. but oprah has been generous to a lot of people in this country. they want to call her out at some cap type of divider, but that is the fate of this country right now because there is a black president and people realize that their privileged status -- privileged status is in jeopardy. and they are reacting in this manner. i definitely nominate eric holder for standing up to the right wing extremists in this country and upholding justice

for everyone. justice for all, not just for seven people. people, tryingse to pass laws to segregate people and for people in different classes. and basically saying up to the right wing. i definitely would nominate him -- host: all right, mike, we got the point. the president is holding a news conference this afternoon. it will be live on c-span. and the "hill" "politico" have questions. here are a couple from the "hill" host: those are in the "hill" newspaper, and in "politico"

this morning that is one of the questions that they pose to the president. william, reading, pennsylvania. republican line. caller: good morning. first, i am american, and second i am republican. i would nominate all the service people in america that serve our country. people that serve our country got killed, came back with no arms, no legs. they are nominating people who make billions of dollars. these people in this country should be ashamed of yourself. the only one should have pride of the serviceman who go out there and kill for you. thank you, god bless america. mitchell joins nbc hillaryvolt against

clinton film theater this is from the "huffington post." host: that's again from the "hope and then post -- the "huffington post," and this is from "politico"

host: tony is in memphis calling on our democrats line. good morning, tony. who would you nominate? former governor of georgia, andrew young. host: former mayor of atlanta, you mean yo? caller: yes. ambassador andrew young. of dr. kingnd man for changing this world, risking his life, risking a family life. he is one of the greatest americans that ever lived. host: thank you for the call. he has been awarded. he has gotten the presidential medal of freedom already. this is a list. this is from nndb, and it talks world.racking the whole they listed here several of the

winners of the presidential medal of freedom. about 20,000 people have been awarded this medal since harry truman invented it. they have got somebody on this list, very quickly, alphabetically -- host: those are some of the winners of the presidential medal of freedom. bob then linkin park, michigan, republican line. hi, bob. are you with us? caller: hello? host: please go ahead. we're listening. caller: i was a sheriff joe of ohio. host: do you think that would be a little controversial? be,er: it probably would

but him and his cold case's have proven that obama's birth and theates are fake draft registration is also fake. we don't even know for sure what this guy's role name is. is.eal name host: that is bob in lincoln park, michigan. twitter comments -- monti says medals are given as repayment for political favor spirit should be given to those leaving fights for liberty and justice for all. tweets -- i was going to say nelson mandela, but looking it up, he is already a recipient. andsays charles ramsey angel cordero, the guys that freed the cleveland girls. and this that says nancy reagan and arnold palmer? clearly the medal of freedom has little to do with freedom and much to do with celebrity. andrew is right here in washington.

hi, andrew. caller: good morning, thank you for having me. of --of all, i hear a lot it seemed that i hear about people calling in, calling for the armed serviceman to be nominated. i agree, that would be wonderful. us i have never heard of being nominated or winning this award in the past. i'm not sure why it would be now. but my self personally, and i'm not a catholic, i would nominate pope francis. i think he is doing a wonderful job so far in his new office. and that is who i would nominate. host: holly, philadelphia, good morning. caller: i figured you might cut me off soon, but i figure sometimes, like i said, some kind of serviceman or a correction officer or how about a nutritionist? thank you. host: thank you very much for calling it. allington from the open -- article from the "washington times" this morning

host: in a brief telephone interview on thursday, jesse benton did not dispute the authenticity of the taping. "i am not 100% positive, i am not confirming that, but i am not denying it either," he said. in a separate event to reporters, he said

host: that's a different candidate before endorsing any campaign. he also worked with host: this is in the "washington times" and another paper this morning. and from the "hill" newspaper

host: back to your calls on to whom you would award the presidential medal of freedom. billy is in miami. hi, billy. caller: yes, good morning good i would have to say without it work onob kuntz for his gay civil rights, and also harvey milk, the mayor of san francisco -- host: the supervisor out there ? caller: yes, the supervisor who give his life. host: who is bob kuntz? caller: he is a gay rights

activist in florida. he is known in miami. you can google him. host: thank you for calling in this morning. next call is jim and we are zero, florida on our republican line. -- is jim in florida. caller: i would nominate the champion of the constitution, dr. ron paul. keys andt his prosperity organization going on , he has got the ron paul channel going on. i would definitely nominate him. some more winners in athletic order here, just grabbing the c's. host: francis collins, who heads the nih.

some of the other winners of the presidential medal of freedom. again, about 20,000 have been given out since the harry truman administration. next call from maple heights, ohio. you're on the air. caller: good morning. host: hi. anler: i would like to see honorary medal of honor gone to bishop charles harrison mason of the church of god and christ. he has been with the church over 100 years, he knows some of the president's as well as dr. martin luther king. he gave his last speech to mason temple. he had fought for the rights for a lot of people as well as blacks as well as whites, religious rights, and everything of that nature. he is very well-educated, you can google him up and read about the history of the church of god and christ, which is now

superseded of bishop blake of california. he deserves one. host: thank you for calling in this morning. more on the list -- billie jean king, martin luther king, elaine host: some more names on the list. this is available on nndb, tracking the entire world. this is from media-is closest -- alec baldwin set to host a new msnbc primetime show.

host: mick is in indiana on our independent line. mick, good morning. who would you nominate for a presidential medal of freedom? caller: good morning. i would like to nominate jimmy hoffa, the union leader. i believe union people and the people that built this nation are constantly overlooked and given a bad rap. thank you. host: thank you for calling in. from the "washington times" if this article -- home prices rise helping a fan he earned $10.1 billion in the second quarter. fannie earn $10.1 billion in the second quarter.

host: as we continue to take your calls on to whom you wouldn' award be presidential medal of freedom, the numbers are on the screen if you would like to dial in. jo is in hammond, louisiana on our republican line. caller: hello, how are you doing ? might be on the list already, his name is john c durand. he was a in immigrant in the united states. he invented and developed the rifle given to most of the soldiers in world war ii. host: i don't see of him on this list, but that is not mean -- this is not the complete 20,000 here, so he could be on their. -- on there.

thank you for calling in. again, the president has announced 16 additions to the presidential medal of freedom ranks. the additions to be awarded later this year. bill clinton, oprah winfrey, ben bradley, danielle inouye host: virginia sue in oklahoma, democrat. good morning. this is so wonderful. there are so may people on a rail -- a day-to-day basis. i said sally ride, but i would ,lso like to nominate my father bill duke. he was in world war ii, and he came home and he ran for city

marshal when i was 10 years old, and he retired eventually as chief of police. he was definitely one of the most be so people i ever met. -- i do note duke know if we were related or not, although he knew my father. an charlie duke was also astronaut, and i do not know if he was nominated or not. but i am proud of oklahoma, proud to see the sign of sally ride. thank you for this wonderful opportunity to say good morning to our nation and let's all try to walk with a little bit more peaceful attitudes and spread a little freedom of attitude around in this world. host: virginia, what do you do in oklahoma? i am retired, but

i have a labor of love project could i build benches out of scrap lumber for people. i have gone through a lot of changes in my life. i graduated in 1965. a shout out to all the guys -- sir, i just love your demeanor. i don't often get c-span always, but i am a morning/night person. again, thank you for doing this. everyoneone, remember, is fighting a battle of their own each day. host: virginia sue, where are some of your benches? caller: my neighbors and my relatives. it is too long a story for you to go into. but it was because one day i was sitting under a tree for my apartment, and i thought people that don't have cars, i thought you know, everybody -- anyway, i decided to start building one bench at a time and made a mess in the process, but it is a

recycling kind of thing. i don't charge money for it. i am excited to have this opportunity. and i'm excited for the people that have been nominated. loretta lynn, i used to look like her. i used to goods sing like her. one of the first women in radio in oklahoma, by the way. that is about all the time i need to give you. [laughter] i appreciate your questions. you for calling him. that is binge builder virginia sue in bethany, oklahoma. is brendan. caller: i feel like marc emery should be nominated -- host: who is marc emery? caller: he is an individual from -- from canada who is currently serving time in prison for sending marijuana seeds through the mail to send it saves of the united states.

host: why would i qualify him for a presidential medal of freedom in your view? caller: i feel like he was just being a capitalist, and also the fact that he was willing to take to other people and serve so that they would not have to do any time themselves. that, you know, any individual that is trying to promote, like, economic growth in the united states with such a business like marijuana that is starting up should be able to, you know, get the presidential medal of freedom. have been really cool to watch this morning. likeoy how you have just, some of the stupid questions. i love the "washington journal." i try to watch it is much as i can. host: thank you for watching. shorty tweets and -- why not bill moyers, amy goodman, cindy sheehan, bernie sanders.

who says rush limbaugh single-handedly rested the monopoly of the media from the left. what a complete waste of time this topic is great we are living under tyranny. even usingritical the term medal of freedom. some of the award winners from president bill clinton era -- colin powell, thurgood marshall, cesar chavez it is time to hear from william in thomasville, georgia. republican line. caller: good morning. host: who would you nominate? caller: my fellow crew members of the uss scope and andy uss -- and the uss sturgeon. those crewmen did a fabulous job attacking americans freedom they in and day out. host: what are those ships that you just mentioned?

caller: those are nuclear powered submarines that patrol the north atlantic. host: are you still assigned to that? caller: no, i have since left the military under honorable terms as did nearly all of my crewmembers. they did a wonderful job, and we loved doing it. host: what is it about that crew that you think would merit a presidential medal of freedom? to go toolunteering see for any number of days, weeks, months, to protect america. anddo it sight unseen unheralded until you see the band on the. -- band on the pier. [inaudible] host: thank you for calling in. from the "hill"

host: brad is in columbia, tennessee on our democrat line. who is your nominee yo? award: i would like to gene roddenberry, creator of "star trek." host: why? caller: i tell you what, this guy had a vision for america. in almost every piece

of technology that we have today. to take his thoughts, put them on film, and ca vision. some people would rather -- see a vision. some people would rather hold nostradamus as someone to look up to. i think gene roddenberry would be a person that all americans should inspired to look up to. his vision, purpose, beautiful. my man, you do have swag. you do a great job on the show. host: christina is in massachusetts on our independent line. caller: hi, how are you? i would nominate trayvon martin and his mother and father. host: why? i don't care what he was doing a night. he had a right to be out there. , though they did

not get any justice, they have repeatedly asked for peace. outrage.to control the the push for racism problems and all that stuff -- they have asked for everybody to stay calm. through all of the writing and everything going on. ng and everything going on here today deserve justice and they did not get it. i believe in gun rights, but i believe that responsible gun rights. and so you understand, i think there should have been -- zimmerman had his right, but he walked away. trayvon did not. like i said, his parents have done so much to try and keep ease through all of this. that is who i would recommend. and: that is christine attleboro, massachusetts. from the "washington post" this morning

host: morsi's children have also

joined the protest camp and called for the release of their father. margaret is in ardmore, oklahoma, republican line. margaret, good morning. who is your nominee for a presidential medal of freedom? caller: sean hannity, who keeps the public informed and that the truth and is never invited to the white house. the other is john hagel, the pastor of the cornerstone church in san antonio, texas. millions around the world revere this man. founder of christians united for israel. he has stood for israel, and he's the the truth of the bible. not what reaches people's ears, bible says.what the people act so lowly love him. he is on twice a day, and he is very funny when he is speaking about the church and the home situation.

expert on --as an he knows the bible inside and out, outside and out. he does not back up from what god says. that is what we want in this country because the lord says if my people, which are caught by my name, will humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways, i will hear from heaven, and i will heal their land. he does not make excuses or acceptances because it is politically correct. and he is a man's man, but the women love him too. he loves god, and he speaks the truth, and it is very rare today. host: all right, that is margaret in oklahoma. from page of the "washington post"

host: he is the guy who came up with a way to sell a $700 billion bank bailout, anxious -- to anxious lawmakers in 2008 when the financial crisis was collapsing. he is the guy who figured out how to let conservatives raise the debt limit while voting against it in 2011 when the nation was days away from default. host: again, from page "washington post." and this is in the "wall street

journal," another departure host: arlene is in jacksonville, north carolina. who would you nominate? my nominee is my friend and used to be my neighbor bradley lang, his wife alyssa others.d two

explosion, andun another lost lake, john. brad lost both legs. through all of his misery and pain, he went to school online while he was having surgery and -- business coming with his friends. i watched them work every day through the pain that they still have. they work really hard setting up the business. they were also on "60 minutes." for soldiersoking and looking for people -- tough to go on after all the suffering they had to go through, bradley lang, his wife alyssa lang, who is a detective with justice here in north carolina, and their

little baby, who is about one and a half, david lang -- for: all right, thank you that suggestion. from the front of the metro section of the "washington post," more news on governor bob mcdonnell of virginia --

host: this article is also in the "washington post" this morning -- next chapter host: and finally in the "wall street journal," d.c. law firm tightens its belt

host: daniel, who is your nominee for the presidential medal of freedom? caller: good morning, sir. i think i could be looking at him on my television set. as well as your compadres gre libby, paul,san, rob, not toand mention the staff that spends -- that screens the called. host: you spend way too much time watching c-span, daniel. caller: i can help it. host: not that we are going to

argue with you. caller: you don't cherry pick the truth. you help but the truth in context. can you imagine this program in china or russia? this is a great country we live in that enabled us to have a program like this. host: thank you for those kind words. we appreciate it. that was daniel and birds town, tennessee on our democrats line. a couple of tweets, let's finish this segment out -- in a perfect world, i would nominate bradley manning for the medal of freedom. his actions brought freedom to millions in the iraq world. richard says -- i nominate david zimmerman -- david silverman, american atheist president for challenging the religious inequality, intolerance, and ignorance in america. nominate george soros medal of freedom. under the gop scan. jim says -- how about a shift where artie -- chef boriardi?

up, we have the chief hurricane predictor of the united states coming in to take your tall -- your calls and talk about her cancer did after that, janet langhart, who wrote a recent op-ed on race relations in the u.s. those are a couple of segments coming up this morning. we will be right back. ♪ >> some people say, well, if we

cut the military, at least we will not have the temptation to go fight as much. and if the japanese want to fight over the island against the chinese, let them do it, we are better off staying out, and if we have a smaller military, we will be disinclined to get involved. by the way, i do not want to fight the chinese over the island, but leave that aside, if you look historically at when we fight and when we do not, i do not see a correlation between a higher defense was it an eight rate or likelihood of intervening. so the world wars begin when we were unprepared, the korean war began when we were unprepared, the vietnam war was a little bit more complex, and you know that pays extremely well. if we fast-forward to the reagan years, in many ways the reagan years are still -- you know, people can correct me if they wish afterwards or whenever, but the reagan years are still seen as the golden years of american defense policy because we built up the budget and we do not really use the military. isn't that a wonderful outcome? ronald saying it is all reagan's great judgment that led

to that. there were some happy circumstances as well, but there was no correlation between increasing the budget and increasing the liberty to intervene militarily. >> this week and on c-span, a brookings institution discussion on upcoming defense department budget cuts saturday morning at 10:00 eastern on c-span2's book tv. then saturday evening on 7:30, the muslim brotherhood. and on american history tv, a look at the interment of japanese americans. sunday at 4:15. "> "washington journal continues. host: now joining us on the "washington journal" is dr. gerry bell, the lead hurricane forecaster for the national oceanic and atmospheric administration. dr. bell, how do you get a job like that?

guest: it is a pleasure to be here. my specialty is studying climate patterns that affect seasonal weather, winter weather, summer weather, and hurricanes. since the late 1990's, i have been very involved with southern climate patterns and predicting the patterns that really control the hurricane activity for the season of a whole. based on that, we started making be seasonal hurricane alex back in 1998. -- hurricane outlook back in 1998. host: how can you predict the next four months of hurricanes? oflerguest: there are a couple patterns that show the way. by predicting the climate patterns come even often make a confident production about what the hurricane season will bring as a whole. that is a scientific basis between -- behind the hurricane outlook. int: can you tell us layman's terms what is the

scientific basis? guest: the fundamental scientific basis is monitoring, understanding, and predicting the climate pattern that really controlled conditions over the atlantic that in turn control whether you are going to have more or fewer hurricanes. host: so then you look at hurricane season -- i mean, are you looking at what is happening in the south atlantic, are you looking at what is happening in africa? what are you measuring? core: we are looking into regions, one over the entire north atlantic nathan in africa. one climate pattern that controls the hurricane activity for decades at a time is really centered in the atlantic and africa. that is related to changes in atlantic ocean temperatures, rainfall over western africa. and really how the wins come off of africa that are key in determining whether you have a lot of hurricane activity or not. a completely different climate pattern is in the pacific ocean. that affects year-to-year

changes in hurricane activity. so really predicting the globalnes is reading a monitoring and predicting types of scenarios. niño, la niña, that is a new concept, isn't it? guest: it has been around for a while. we think of el niño as producing the stormy winters and california and wet and stormy weather across the south. it turns out that el niño and it's town apart la niña are also very important factors in year- to-year creations in hurricane activity really across the pacific basin and the atlantic. host: gerry bell is our guest noaa. came out you recently with your hurricane season outlook. what if the season going to be? guest: we updated the 2013 hurricane season outlook just

yesterday. it is really reiterating what we had predicted in may. we still expect an active season with the possibility the season to be very active. for the season as a whole, we 19 mainicting 13 to storms, six to nine to be major stomrms. that is a lot of activity still to come. majors by far were the hurricanes occur. we so have a lot of way to go with this hurricane season. host: what is the peak? september,st, october. you might say mid august to mid- october. throughout this entire three- month period is when by far the bulk of the major hurricanes occur. host: the "hartford c ourant" this morning -- whether service packs off a bit from production. what are they talking about here? we lowered our upward

bound of major hurricane slightly for the northeast. this is for the entire atlantic basin, for the season as a whole . we don't think the season could potentially be one of the strongest on record or close to that. it is still going to be an active season, but we just don't think it will be as strong as we had indicated in may. make no bones about it -- what we are predicting is a lot of activity, and those numbers are way above the seasonal averages. so don't be fooled into thinking we are somehow predicting a less than strong season because we are not. host: the phone lines are on the screen divided by region. if you live in the east and central time zones, (202) 585- 3880 is number for you to doubt. (202) 585-3881 if you live in the western time zone. gerry bell of noaa is our guest. what is the normal season? the averages and has about 12 storms, six hurricanes.

the range we are predicting, 13 to 19 main storms, six 29 hurricanes, three to five main storms, well above the seasonal averages. that is why we are saying this will be an active season. host: do you predict where these hurricanes are going to go? guest: it is for the entire strength of the hurricane. is not a landfall forecast. weeks and months in advance, you cannot predict how many hurricanes might strike, how strong they may be, how much damage they may produce. those types of things are really dependent on the weather patterns that are in place at the time the hurricane is approaching. that is what the national hurricane center does. they make the predictions for the individual hurricanes and the dental intensity, strength, potential damage, so on. gerry bell, do hurricanes ever fall out of the august

through november. -- through november period? guest: yes. rarely we see hurricanes during july. if we do see them in july, it will be one of the more stronger years on record. we do see them in november. but by and large, the peak of activity is august, september, and october. typically, during june and july, we only see one to two main storms. that sometimes gives people a false sense of well, we have not seen a much activity to date, maybe the season will not be as active as they are predicting. that is false. during june and july we typically see very little --ause the effort oceanic the average oceanic conditions are not conducive to producing that much activity early in the season. call let's take some phone spirit we begin with annie in florida. -- calls. we begin with annie in florida. oh, i apologize for that. we will begin with kevin in new york.

kevin, you were on the "washington journal." morning, gentlemen. i have two questions that i would like mr. bell to comment on. the first is hurricane sandy. i read that sandy came up the east coast, and when it made landfall, it managed to go through the jetstream, something quite unusual, if not unprecedented. i would like to ask them to comment on them. the second thing i would like to ask them to comment on is the ,urrent feedback in the arctic and what effect is the super heating of the arctic having on the weakness or strength of the jetstream? kevin, is this a hobby for you to follow this, or is it something you are interested in or what? itler: i am interested in because the current weakening of the gesturing has massive -- of the gesturing has massive impact stream has massive impact on the world. it is something that could sever the movements of the gulf stream, which would be near

catastrophic. host: thank you, sir. sandy,with regard to hurricanes -- when a form and strengthen, they do so independent of the jetstream hurricanes do not like a jet stream. westwardorms moved along the tropical atlantic of the united states, they become progressively more interfered with by the jet stream. a lot of storms weakened as they approached the atlantic coast. we can purchase them out to sea. have aot comment to hurricane retain its strength as it is interacting with the jet stream jetsandy did. with thepressure --

tester and the way -- jet stream the way sandy did. it shifted into being energized by the jet stream. we will see over the open atlantic storms that become embedded over the jet stream. the storms have now become post-tropical or extra-tropical if you read the weather center reports. am a specialist with hurricanes. hurricanes do not like a streams -- jetstreams. they will eventually be join them. twwets at smith

follow-up. change, imate atmosphere now holds 4% more water than it did 40 years ago. is that true? guest: it brings up an important what, understanding potential impact global warming could have won hurricanes. it is a more complicated issue than we first thought. initially, we thought global warming want to be ocean. what we are seeing globally is your hurricanes, except for the afflicted. what the global warming is doing is increasing the atmosphere's ability, making it harder for thunderstorms to a rise and harder for moisture to contends. the thunderstorms provide the

energy for the -- making it harder for thunderstorms to arise and harder for them to condense. anne in florida, you are on the "washington journal." caller: i am in central florida. i would like to ask two questions, if you do not mind. i am into gardening. we have had no hurricanes for several years in central florida. i am on the west coast north of tampa. the gulf temperatures have been around 90 degrees. so happy we are not having any hurricanes. we are always planning for hurricanes regardless.

to the cost of insurance and living in florida. it is very political. what i would like to ask you is, do you work with the space station? how does that work? nasa, no -- how does that work in a hand in hand partnership to work with these -- look at these factors in contour space? we will not have a hurricane in november -- look at these factors in outer space? we will not have a hurricane in november. i promise you. tell you howot nasa and no work together. that is not my expertise. one area they were together is

through the satellites and monitoring global conditions. without this ability to monitor inland daily and what is calling on globally, there is no wind -- daily, there is no way we could put out detailed hurricane forecast many days in advance. these are way out over the atlantic ocean where 50 years ago we would not have known they were there. all of these agencies are critical in the mission of the environmental and oceanic monitoring. he made an excellent point that you prepare every year for hurricane season. . commend you highly for that atlantic and gulf coast residents should be doing this regardless of the seasonal i'll

look. it only takes one hurricane to the -- regardless of seasonal outlook. residents,a coastal make sure you have your preparedness plan being finished our completed so that you know what to do if a hurricane threatens. bell, are youy based here or in miami? guest: i am based here in d.c., in college park, maryland. miami is the national hurricane center. they are part of my team in making the seasonal outlook. the primary mission is predicting the individual tropical storm and hurricane throughout the season. all of the hurricane watches and warnings come from the national

hurricane center. i am more of a climate specialist. i look at the moment -- global climate patterns have and make predictions about the strength of the season as a whole and the dominant factors that are influencing hurricane season. host: have we had in her cage yet this year? guest: -- had anyve we hurricanes yet this year? for italy, we have not had any hurricanes. have not hady, we any hurricanes. host: can you predict something three or four with out and say i see a bunch of clouds? we will see the

potential as a cloud system or a low pressure area movie was to westward from tropical area -- tropical africa. monitoring and it is full go on all of the systems from that point on. do you provide your services to some of the island nations in the caribbean as well? guest: yes. in an active season like we are expecting, they will typically see even more hurricanes striking. strong interest throughout that entire region as to what the hurricane season might bring. they interact with the national

hurricane center as to what an individual storm will do. in new york.s were you hit by sandy? caller: fortunately not. i know people who lost everything. what role has development plays in these large levels of sustainment in the coastal areas. after world war ii, they used a lot of silt to create land. y almost came mirabeau's old land boundaries. almost came near those old

land boundaries. both coastline have built up tremendously over the last 60 years -- 5- to to 60 years. every time a tropical storm threatens, there are millions of people potentially at risk. houses, a lot of big lot of money and property. there is much more potential for human damage and financial damage. we also know there are many people who have interests along the coastline to do not live there. people may be renting out

property. they may have boats they have to deal with. if you do not stay up on these issues, it is easy to fall behind and not be prepared when a hurricane strikes. the potential damage has increased tremendously. what we also saw with the atlantic hurricane activity, you have decades at a time when it is more active and less active. were more and 1960's active. we were71 to 1991 seeing fewer hurricanes. the unfortunate thing was we in hurricanel activity. now that it has come back, many more people and more property are at risk.

you. a tweet for what are the key factors that determine the strength of the storm? storm,for an individual the key factors are longer -- warmer ocean temperatures. another key factor is that the low pressure systems that moved westward from africa are in a environment where they can get their counterclockwise rotation. that is fundamental to a tropical storm or hurricane. a third critical factor is wind shear. if the wind speed and direction move intoot, they can . storm and been ripped apart

that sets you up for more came -- forrricane foron hurricane formation. host: have you ever flown in one planes? hurricane no.st: by the time the flight is done, you are glad it is over. 8 hours of severe turbulence. it is an amazing experience, but something i would not care to do again. bdul is here in the

suburbs. good morning. we are listening. caller: i have two questions. hurricane sandy was identified from africa. is there a way we can use to predict the winds and when they are coming? we are talking about seineing the moon before ramadan. when theyogy can tell are coming, would we know if the moon is coming in two days?

guest: thank you. the first part, is there a way to predict a hurricane via technology. the answer is no. different people have come up with different scenarios and none of them seem to make a lot of sense. hurricanes are truly massive storms. the amount of energy in hurricanes is just unbelievable. there is no way to counteract that energy. ist we can do as a society make sure we are as best prepared we can. that means each of us individually as coastal residents and the government needs to be prepared for each hurricane season. that is the best way for you and your family to have the impact

of hurricanes minimize if you are threatened. we encourage coastal residents every year. regardless of the seasonal out look, you need to prepare for every hurricane. make for aes one to bad year. even if you are not a coastal we know hurricanes oftentimes move from -- hundreds of miles inland and can affect areas 1,000 miles wide. a lot of people are at risk every time a hurricane approaches. the more you can do to minimize your risk, the better off you are. host: is there an exponential difference between a category one, a category 2, a category 3?

the amount of damage goes up as the hurricane strengthens. the major hurricanes typically produce the most damage. hurricane five decimates everything. we do not see that with a category one or two. was a category two storm. the maximum winds were 100 miles per hour when they reached land fall. brought high tide and hit a veryes populated area. we had tremendous damage from sandy even though it was not a major hurricane because of the factors came into play to

determine how much damage to a storm does. host: what was hurricane katrina? three it was a category when it made landfall. powerful.r storm, but the storm surge went through the levies and new orleans was flooded. the damage would have been less had those levies not failed. host: category 3-5, major 3urricanes, no is predicting to 5. caller: i would like to thank dr. gerry bell for the work he does that no. how can renewable energy change

some of the outcomes of global warming? what do you think about the carbon dioxide affecting global warming and climate change? the third question is how well sequestration's effect no's affect -- sequestration s? program expert onm not an renewables hinchey so i cannot address those issues. is strongly environmental -- i am not an expert on cannotle energy so i address those issues. is very involved in trying

to better understand in potential global warming and potential impact. that is just not my area of expertise so i cannot address those questions. host: even the sequestration question? have you been laid off? weather service has not been laid off. expecting they were to, but it proved to not be practical. host: speaking of the sequestration, should the weather bureau become a private company? guest: i can only give my private opinion. i absolutely firmly believe it should remain part of the federal government. we have an amazing set up

abilities that evolve constantly. i cannot imagine how that could be done without a broader agency such as the federal government being in control. partisan,mpletely non- completely neutral as far as given our outlook on the forecast. to dois no pressure anything but states the scenario as best you can. my personal opinion is that it should be a government agency. clarity the solar shift during solar maximum changing weather? ofst: that is not an area expertise for me. we do not looking that as being a factor in the hunt -- factor in influencing hurricanes.

there are other factors the dominate the season of hurricane activity. host: the last question for gerry bell. would like to comment on the way the government plays with the weather throughout the centuries. we use silver iodide to see the clouds in vietnam. to harp.com, you can catch the russians playing with the weather. this is about insurance companies being under-funded. this is about the mass starvation coming in 20 or 30 years. host: we have the point. for thatl, answer

caller. guest: there have been attempts to modify the weather and they have all failed. the weather patterns are huge. are huge areas of air. what modifies them are tropical rainfall patterns on continents, the seasons. that is what controls the jet stream patterns. what we do is utterly negligible on the scale. , 13- 2013 hurricane season 19 main storms. be majoruld hurricanes. being our, thanks for

guest. two more segments. cohen will be coming up and we will be talking about her on love in black and white. that is what we have coming up thishe "washington journal" morning. we will be right back.

m&aayor adrian fenty councilmen face each other -- an face eachcilm other in an election. fenty.at took office, gray mr. brown was told that he was things. a shadow campaign was uncover. whohad another set of folks

were in an office right next to the gray campaign. during the campaign, there is so much going on. several official workers complaining about the other workers because they felt they were getting paid more. there was a lot of confusion as to who was paying them. it was not until a year later that folks started putting things together with federal investigators began asking questions and they realize, the folks who were next door, we cannot find any record of them in the campaign finance records we see. how did those folks get paid and was in charge of them? ikita stewart on c-span's "q & a."

cohen, you langhart wrote that on multiple occasions, obama has asked blacks to understand the high wire he is forced to walk on the subject of race. why did you write that? wrote that as an outlet in the washington post has an plea for the president to speak out boldly on issues of race and racism and why is still matters. after the zimmerman verdict, many of us were stunned and were raising these zero questions, can people of color get justice in the criminal justice system? has the president spoken on that? guest: yes, he did. later,s letter -- days

he spoke in a way that no of the president before him could have spoken. he spoke from personal experience, having experienced racism and racial profiling as a young man all the way up to his becoming a u.s. senator. the president is a harvard graduate, university professor. he has written several books and has been profiled in his life. he knew something about racism and he spoke to beautifully. i applaud the president for doing that. he is open to the conversation and the issue of race and racism. when i wrote the op-ed, many of my friends and reporters i most admired were opposed to the president speaking on this issue. would be the president great the conversation.

but in a conversation the president enters, he elevates it. host: how would he degrades the conversation? that is what i said. now you see oprah winfrey and others speaking out about racial profiling. host: what was about the martin paceayvon that angered you? me and stunneded in may. we african americans are quite accustomed to not getting justice in the system. i was hoping against hope that this time it would be different. while the defense and the prosecutors were saying that this case is not about racial profiling or raise. it is not about stand your ground, but i thought it was exactly that. it angered me and frighten me

because given our history in this country where young black males were concerned, that law, this verdict, would send a signal to the intolerance part of our society that it is open season on young black boys and men. host: front page of the washington times. state lawmakers will act in racial impact. they have racial impact statement when it comes to creating laws and verdicts. guest: what does that mean when you say racial impact statements. lawmakers want to increase for arsonm sentence or just requirements for a child custody applications, they will prepare racial impact statements to ensure that blacks, hispanics, and other

minorities are not affected unfairly by criminal-justice legislation. guest: that is a good move. it is sad that in the 21st century we have to consider that. when you consider my history and ands, 300 years of slavery 100 years of apartheid america, segregated america, jim crow, lynchings and we cannot get summer -- get federal sanctions against lynchings. race is a factor in every aspect of our society. the co author of a book, love in black and white. my husband is senator first republican to serve in a democratic

administration. he served bravely and courageously as secretary of defense. he was the republican senator from the great state of maine. we decided to write a book because we both know something about being outcasts. irish and half jewish. because of jewish law, the jewishness is passed to the mother. since his mother was not jewish, he cannot be accepted as jewish. he knew what it was like to be an outcast, not accepted by those who were jewish and not accepted by those who were not. he felt that he was half of each and whole of another. as an african-american growing up in apartheid america -- i was born in 1941 when it was segregated. my husband and i would not be able to sit together on a bus,

much less marry each other. i know something about being in a country that i loved and loving the country more than a loves me and sometimes feeling like an outcast. .ogether, we wrote this book the romance is the best part. from this morning's newspaper, many americans have no friends of another race. guest: so sad. we are supposed to be an integrated society. you have friends of another race, peter. host: sure. guest: even though we have integration and work together and go to school together, it is probably like it was when we were at the university. the white students and i would

study together. something would happen when we would leave class. in the classroom, we had to learn math and english in a book. we did not have to learn the social mores in a book. charles barkley was talking in one of his books about how in alabama the kids got -- got along fine but they had a black homecoming queen and a white homecoming queen. i am proud to say i have friends of many races. i have cambodian friends and france from bolivia and my husband is of a different f -- bolivia and my husband is of a different race and he is my best friend. oft: who was a first friend a different race? carrie was mynd

first friend. i was about 35. dear friend, i adopted as my godmother. one of the first women to serve in world war ii. we just lost her a few years back. the age of 35til did you not have a white friend? white associates, but not friends. a segregated society. i never really thought in terms of race and friendship. if you had to generalize race relations in the u.s. today, what with that generalized statement being?

-- be? guest: i think we would get a c. one man in the white house does not get rid of all of the disparities in education and the mass incarceration of black man. the narrative has always been negative and it is not good. there are more black children, black students in college then there are black people in prison. i want to make sure i make that point. said, ike martin king have a long way to go. we have come a long way. when we were in slavery, we were told to wait for freedom. when we were free, we were told to wait for equality and our rights. when we got a black president,

we were told to wait until the second term to have him address race issues. from what i understand, the president will speak on the march on washington commemorating the 50th anniversary of the i have a dream speech. he will speak and i think that will have -- that will be his legacy speech. people will remember that stays the way they wouldn't -- the way they remember dr. king's speech. bit ofere is a little the president talking about his own experience of race. [video clip] allt will be important for of us to do some soul-searching. there has been talked about should we convene a conversation on race? i have not seen that be particularly productive when

politicians try to organize conversations. they end up being stilted and are locked and folks into the divisions they already have. on the other hand, families and churches and workplaces -- there is the possibility that people are a little bit more honest. you ask yourself your own questions. as much bias out of myself as i can? am i judging people as much as i can based on, not the color of their skin, but the content of their character? be an appropriate exercise in the wake of this tragedy. ist: janet langhart cohen our guest. we are talking on race relations.

tom in maryland. you are our first call. i would like to thank you for prodding the president for speaking out on his humanity. in his position, he has to be careful when he says. incertain matters like -- his position, he has to be careful what he says. a certain matters, he can bring people to come to certain conclusions that bring everyone together. that is his job, to bring people together. i know it is hard for him to speak out about being a black person in white society. he is supposedly representing everyone. he has to do this. he is the leader. i thank you for prodding him and getting him to look at it in this manner. thank you and have a nice day.

we haves it is sad that to say it is difficult for him to speak about race because he is a black man. if we have a woman president, will she forfeited any discussions on women's reproductive rights or equal pay or breaking the glass ceiling? if we have a jewish president, will they be prohibited from speaking on issues important to the jewish community? if we have the veteran or someone disabled, would they be precluded from speaking on the issues they personally are a part of? thank you for your call. i agree. he is the leader regardless of his race. when bill clinton -- my husband served with bill clinton. the president had had an economic summit. my husband was going to meet with them in the rose garden. i wrote a note to bill clinton.

i said, now you have had a summit on economics can you please have a summit on race? events overtook him. we had raised the conciliation right here on c-span, peter. you covered it. it was in 2008 before the president was elected and you covered it. we asked the wise to leave their shame at the door and the blacks to leave their blame. could we come together and talk? african-americans talk about race all the time. whites, what i am seen, about race all the time. whites talk about race all the time. host: before this segment, we talked in a production meeting

about dividing our normal lines by race. we decided not to. i would -- guest: why? i would have loved to that. we rarely hear what people talk about race. my husband is one of the few tim burns. i would like to sit back and let white people talk about how they feel about it, why they are afraid of black man, why do they find the masculinity of our man menacing. i'd like to know about that. i would like comice -- i would like police commissioners to talk about race. there is a disproportionate number of what -- of black men and boys murdered by police.

pope talked about coming back from brazil and he said ye shall not judge. that was revolutionary of the pontiff to talk about orientation. why can he talk about race? one of the italian ministers from africa and bananas thrown at him. in italy.in their racism is a global problem. host: hopefully, our callers will listen to you. tweet. did you write an outlet for clinton or bush to speak out about racism? guest: i wrote a note for

president clinton and i asked my husband to hand him a note to talk about race and racism. he agreed to do it. as int overtook the situation and he was unable to do that. host: janet langhart cohen is our guest. i am whites and i hope you let me speak. and i hope youe let me speak. i find the hypocrisy of liberals and those who want to point out the color of skin that the than the content of character amazing. there were three black teenagers beating up a white boy. did not hear jesse jackson and you do not hear al sharpton. it does not fit their narrative so they do not speak about it. as far as president obama being

reluctant to talk about race, you do not remember that stupid his summit where he threw grandmother under the bus. i am not afraid of a black kid. i am afraid of a kid who wears his pants down along his side, has a hoodie on and does not have a job. i do not care if they are white or black. that is what i am afraid of. host: can we ask you the question? to you have any black friends? caller: i have had black friends. there you go again. parenthood destroys more black babies.

the black community is devastated. the liberals have acted like black people cannot take care of themselves. welfare, affirmative action. it is so insulting. host: a lot of information out there. janet langhart cohen. i am sorry about the young white kid who was beaten. if you have not heard from jesse jackson or al sharpton, you have just heard from janet langhart cohen. that was reprehensible in i am sorry about that. as far as the president throwing his grandmother under the bus, i did not hit the impression that when she admitted to him that she was nervous about black man, and countering black - blac -- blacken -- and

was a woman of her era conditions to react that way. peter, need to dump this program and run for president. i have gotten into a dialogue about race for years and years. i get frustrated when i hear people say we need to have a national dialogue or we need to talk about race. i think it it's talked about a lot. talked- i think it gets about a lot. what would you like to have ?hite people discuss

host: are you white, black? black. there is a black guy in the white house. we have come a long way in this country. we have removed barriers that prevent blacks from moving forward. what we really need to do is have a dialogue that says what we really need to do to take care of people have bad behavior and not go down the with the mentality. janet langhart cohen? i would like white people to recognize the history of this country. a lot of it is not study in our

history books. i learned more about the holocaust when i was in school than i did about slavery. abraham lincoln freed the slaves. i learned very little about the economics of slavery. i think it is important to talk about the who advantages, the white privilege, the unearned white privilege that whites have that they take for granted. you walk into a retail store and someone comes toward you, you probably think they are there to serve you. because of my conditioning as a black person, i am not sure if they are coming to serve me or patrolling meet our monitoring me. because i am highly visible, maybe they are coming over to say hello. but the cultural conditioning has made me first thing about race. i would like to know what do

whites think about? when we talk to our with children about the police, we are serious about giving our young man the talk all the way ett to him until -- em till. i would like to know what white people tell their children. do they give them authority? to the respect them? we are told something different. i would like to know what white people say about their privilege. as seeingy see us ourselves as victims? do they know american history from each point, from each side of the confederacy or the mason dixon line? dost: janet langhart cohen, you remember when you discovered

you were black? guest: very early. that is when i wrote my playing ett. and emm i remember being in a department store with my mother. what kind of kids are they? they look different. she said, they are white. i said, what am i? she said, you are colored. i said, who colored me? then i noticed they were always over there and we were always over here. when i was 7 and i started taking piano lessons, i had to go downtown. indianapolis was a segregated city. a mother said, there are people in this world who will not like you because of your color. i said, who are they? what are their names?

she said, they are not important. they will probably be white. i will she said, i do not want you to judge anyone because of something they cannot help. i understood that there was racial prejudice in the world and that there were good people in the world like my husband and like you, peter. there are others i could name. host: teresa is in tennessee on the republican line. hi, teresa. i am and white woman and i grew up in georgia and watched georgia turned from a middle- class working hard community to a black community. when to be unaccredited. the violence shot up.

robberies and carjackings and property values went down until we had to leave. you asked what we teach our children. you use the victim card as a way to further your agenda. you andy is out to give you teach your children that whites are out to get you. we do not teach our children that the black man is out to get them and the black man is the reason for all our ills. i know this will sound rude, but you need to get over the slavery. it had been 200 years ago. we had nothing to do with slavery. guest: you are the beneficiary of slavery and all of the preferential treatment you get as whites. why do you think the black schools are closing? did you realize that when brown versus the board of education in

1954, many southern schools closed their schools before they went into the red with black children. are you aware of that? host: the caller is gone. what about her statement that her town went downhill when it became black? guest: i am not a sociologists. i think there is a cycle of poverty that wraps itself around the black community. the lack of education. she probably does not know that in this country, it was illegal for black children to learn to read and write. if she would attempt to teach a black child to read or write, she could be fined and the child could be with. we were discouraged from reading and writing and when we tried to advance and could not read or write, we were called dumb.

lesson onn giving a racial history, she should go to pool will and click on race history, atlanta and -- she shut in atlanta history and georgia. isn't it interesting when you talk about the voting rights act? the supreme court is rolling back some many of the gains man and women, black and white, fought and died to get. the right to vote. isn't that the most democratic rights when should have a jumble it rolled it back. they have taken out the teeth of section 5 -- isn't that the most democratic rights we should have? how do you have 300 years of slavery.

and the denial of equal opportunity of black children to learn to read and write and then 30 years of affirmative action and you say we are all equal now? it takes a little longer than that. that is naive and almost evil to think we have had enough into roll it back. badhow you that there were intentions, all of the space that were part of the pre pre-clearance, they all rushed to establish to reinstitute these obstacles. to eric holder's credit come on credit, on the president's behalf, he is doing something about it. it is every american's write to

vote. no saying day voting. -- right to vote. up, dead whiteng people could vote and blacklisting people could not. it is sad. this country. and black living people could not. i love this country. i have risen to the top. only in america could someone like me arrive to wear a i am. i am not a victim. i am victorious. i have risen to the top. so has colin powell. so has oprah winfrey. so has condoleezza rice. this country has allowed us to be victorious. if we, the people of color, coming out of bondage, can rise and contribute to this country,

those who have no experience with prejudice and oppression should be more generous. rather than calling us names and saying we are victims and we should get over slavery, should you tell someone jewish to get over the holocaust? in new york. please be. cohen, hillary clinton's running mate. i am a black man. who makeshite friend rush limbaugh look like bill marh. bill mahr. -- i have been listening to c-span for 14 years.

there are a lot of changes from 1998 until now. as far as race goes, i will be totally honest with you. i do not want to offend anybody. there are a lot of people in the world. if you have something going for , theylf and you work hard want you to be just as miserable as they are. i am a black man who walked into agreta a lady who diner -- a diner with a lady who looked like greta, you are blind, blue-eyed hostess -- eyed hostess, i can

tell you about being intimidated. we have a lot more in common than we have to divide each other. mahrld like to see bill and rush limbaugh fight it out in a ring somewhere. host: any, and for him? guest: no, i just found this comments interesting and i agree with a lot of the sentiments. host: hi, michael. caller: my family is native american, and i hear a lot about that their family made it from the bottom to the top. whate forget so much about the native american has gone through all the way up to today. school, we were not allowed to speak our native town.

native americans are getting a little voice but we need to band together, like the african-american community with the naacp. who was there to help us? no one is there to show us the right way to go. we're kind of forgotten about in a sense. everyone is saying you are not black or white, no, i am red. but we are all made by god. guest: you are not forgotten about. a great many of the native americans were very good to the african-americans when we came here in slavery. the seminoles. my part -- my family's part shawnee on my mothers side and my father said from kentucky. the stories i hear from my grandparents about how they ,ntermarried and in many ways

they enabled us to passenger freedom. -- to are not forgotten pass into freedom. so you are not forgotten. are theour ally, we ally of the latino, we are the ally of all goodwill people. theink about how sadly native americans were treated when they were pushed westward, peter. the benevolence of the colonial settlers to those native people who were being pushed off their land -- they gave them the gift blankets, and that was the beginning of the attempt at genocide of the native peoples. i am sorry for the way you have been treated. i wish i could visit a reservation. i've only been to one in oklahoma. i would love to have someone invite me. janet langhart cohen, you are exposed to the military for many years. is the military race neutral? guest: the military -- that was

a wonderful extremes, when bill was secretary of defense, being around the men and women and their families. they mean it when they say duty, said, country, as isaiah who will go for me, isaiah stepped forward and the soldiers said, "we will go for you," and they do. we pay them very little and they put their lives on the line for -- their spouses, parents, children, and the four years i was there at the pentagon with my husband, bill:, i did not see any prejudice. even though those creatures deserve and our military -- actually, they choose to serve in our military -- they are southerners, they are from texas, they are from puerto rico . we have a lot of emigrants cert

-- we have a lot of emigrants serving in our military. honor anduse of the discipline and it also had to do the husband's rang. i felt very at home with the men and women of the military. my mother kind of raised us like we were in boot camp. but the bravery -- the valor, , it makes you proud to be an american. you know why we are the finest military -- it is because of them. those men and women, we sleep under a blanket of freedom every night. host: do you and your husband stairs still? guest: yes, and bill has retired him andwomen come up to

thank him for the service -- host: sorry, i meant as a black- and-white couple. guest: we were just in west virginia, and i have always been reluctant going anywhere south of richmond. i don't know them it was just the way i was cultivated -- i don't know, it was just the way i was cultivated. mississippi was always a scary place because emmett till was murdered there. , when i go south i still remember that i am black, and i wonder if people will see anything, and all they ever say -- all they ever say is, "y'all come back, you hear," or "we wish you were president, bill." it always stuns me. i'm gun shy because of how i was brought up. but we had a wonderful time in west virginia. michael in alabama is calling on our republican line.

hello, i would like to say about race, you know, every time a black person kills a white person, it's ok, but if a white person kills a black person, they set out to do it as a race thing. it's not a race thing all the time. we are past all that now. we need to learn to love each other and accept people for who complaining -- guest: who was complaining? well, i mean, the blacks always complain -- why don't you think we are explaining our circumstances? caller: well, they just complain -- you know, get over what happened in the past. south.you are from the

should the confederates -- the southerners get over the loss of the confederate war? caller: well, i mean, i'm past that. it was a war, the south lost -- host: hey, michael, could you give us a little of your history? were you raised a segregated in alabama? were you raised to be -- with racial undertones or for tones -- or overtones? caller: actually, i was raised in mississippi, and i went to school with black kids. when i was small -- i think it was in the fourth grade -- my .est friend was a black guy his sister kind of like to me. his name was ricky. he was my best friend. his sister was melissa. i still remember them. guest: would your mother have allowed you to date melissa?

caller: it's like this -- nobody tells me who i can or can't d ate. i my own person. host: michael, do you think there is racism still in the south? caller: i'm sure there is, it's all over the place. there is always going to be that way. like, take obama, for instance. he is not a black president. he is a next president. -- mixed president. he has white in him. i don't understand why they call him a black president. guest: what would you call him? caller: i call him a human being. guest: oh, good for you. very enlightened, thank you. host: william in georgia, democrat. thank you. caller: good morning, mrs. cohen. i read your book, i enjoyed it.

guest: thank you. caller: i admire your husband, i admire you. i'm a black man in georgia. i was in the racist days, and i'm still in it today at certain times. host: we're listening, sir. caller: why other races want me to forget something when they won't forget -- i had a middle- class job. i worked for general motors 30 years, and i had a military job. why should i forget something when you won't forget -- like , i went in atlanta and i walked in a conference and i hear the door locked. i don't want your parents. i just want to be nice, to speak to you. is is a blacke me man -- all you see me as is a black man. if you don't call me black, you call me the n-word. every race that comes in this

country, they got that mentality. my family had a small business. we don't own anything today, and there's nothing i can do about it. president, yes, he is a good man. i don't care who they marry. that is their business. but he is a human being, and he is black, he is white, but what can we do? we respect him. host: william, do you have any white friends? caller: no, i don't. i never tried, even when i was working. i used to work in the middle of about six whites. sometimes they wouldn't say nothing to me for nine hours a day and i didn't say anything to them. but i can speak to you and love you 100%. guest: it's interesting, when you say they want us to get over it. what is the it they want us to get over? maybe we would have a good chance of getting over it if they got over it. daryl, another call from

the south, birmingham, alabama. independent line. caller: thanks for having me on. i'm a white male, a former liberal, and i'm a conservative now, and the main reason i moved is because i think the policies on the left are bad for the poor, bad for the race issue. that isthat the piece missing in the dialogue are , becauseservatives they can't be talked down to and patronized the way whites can, but their view about where we need to go is different from the liberal flanks -- the liberal phalanx. when you don't have black conservatives, the way it works is this -- do you think there is any racism? if you say there is not, you know you are ignorant.

this seemsthere is, to validate whatever the liberals want to do. we need the black conservatives to be a major part of the dialogue. host: thank you, sir. janet langhart cohen. guest: we need compromise whether you are conservative or liberal. but i was curious as to what specifically about the liberal agenda, political liberal agenda, do you feel is bad for everybody? is he still on? host: he is gone. jim tweets in guest: i think al sharpton has a major role to play. he is out there on the frontlines saying things that a lot of us feel and think that need to be said. yes, he is playing a major role. i know he has a mixed background brawley, butawana

every night on msnbc he is walking the walk and talking the talk. he says things that i wish more whites would say. chris matthews, he is a fair man. i hear the young reporters on "the cycle," they are pretty fair. harris-perry,ssa they are good at bringing up these issues, but i want to hear the hum the white point a few more. do they think it is fair? do you think -- do they think we are chewing on this bone and racism is over and we should move on now? i would like to hear them talk about it. host: arnold tweets in guest: yes, i do. host: you had a think about that for a minute. guest: i don't think my friends in terms of those labels --

their color, height, the politics. when bill and i married, senator strom thurmond, the great dixiecrat, was at our wedding. trent lott, the great mississippi senator, was there. host: friends of yours today? guest: mm-hmm. i like trent. i got him in an interview once when he was up on capitol hill and i asked him, because trent and i are the same age, and i said, "you are a mississippian, you were born in the 1940s. where were you when emmett till was murdered?" his agent said, -- his aides said, "he has to go." he had thee corner confederate flag. he is more than a mississippian, more than a senator, he probably has leanings and the other direction. but he and i have remained friends. earlier, mentioned it

and emmett"?anne guest: a play that i wrote. the girl murdered in the holocaust, and emmett till, in 1955 he whistled at a white woman and because of this he was brutally murdered. emmett have been a part of me since my very beginning. i learned of both of them at the same time. her diary was required reading in my all-black school, and even though i know now her story ended, i was intrigued by it and i could identify with her. age,t till being the same the same ethnicity, when his murder happened i was just thinking after brown versus board of education, when the supreme court, those nine men said i was equal and i could go to any school with any wiki i

wanted, i was excited -- with any white kid i wanted, i was excited about owing to an integrated school, and that summer in 1955, we learned about the brutal murder of this 14- year-old boy and we saw pictures of his mutilated body in "jet" magazine and his mother insisted that the coffin be open because she wanted the world to see what white america, racist white america, had done to her son. she wanted the world to see what happens to black people in this country. because of that, i brought these 2 teenage martyrs, children who live in societies that cannot protect them, very much the same way as trayvon martin. i think that with trayvon martin's murder there were a lot murderllels, emmett's of trayvon's murder, i think trayvon martin is the ghost of emmett till. how far have we come?

to 72 you sold, i have lived see a black president, but have also lived to see -- 72 years old, i've lived to see a black president, but i've also lived to see the recurrence of a black boy struck down and the murderer get away with it. how far have we come? host: florida, republican. don, we are listening. caller: hi. i just wanted to call -- you were talking about the military earlier, and how wonderful the experience was. .'m a 20 year military brat once a brat, always a brat, i guess that i was raised in a different culture. i do not see color. i did not understand -- when i got back to the states, we were living in germany, our groups were of all different colors, races, religions, mixed marriages.

i just do not see that. -- just did not see that. the first time i saw actual i -- when you are a brat and you age out ordinary out, you are kicked out of the military to civilian life. living in new orleans was the first time i actually saw racism. men cut his hands and the southern belles went to treat him and help him, and they were looking at me like, "how could you touch a black man's butt?" this was back in the 1980s. i just looked at her and told her, "i would rather have a some man's blood then white women i know," and that

shot up the conversation. had a conversation on one of our social media groups, and when i saw -- what we were talking about was the racist issue, and this was after the zimmerman trial. , a very longed with hundreds of comments, and we all came together and we realized that we have this problem solved. we have it licked. guest: i think the military is unique in the way that not since truman desegregated the military , they have lived together in close quarters, the families were together and support each other. they are about survival and defending this nation and they have little time to think about the racist issues that we have

as our civilian time. she mentioned blood. i was watching a documentary where my father was in the military, he served in world war bloodat they would take from a black soldier, blood from a white soldier, and the white soldier going into combat would if to sign a form to say you start losing blood, do you want black blood, and a lot of the white soldiers opted out and they bled out and died. some took the black blood -- listen to this -- some took the black blood and said, "when i get back stateside i will get a blood transfusion and wash it all out." that is how primitive our notions of race have been. it is really amazing, because all of that happen in my lifetime. i'm living in a time when i'm watching humanity evolve, and i'm watching white people evolve, and i say this with love . it is often said that, oh, you

black people of come along way -- you black people have come a long way, you have condi rice, obama, oprah. it is why people who have come a long way in the because we've always had these capabilities to be president, secretary of state, television personalities, surgeons. we've always had these abilities. we just haven't been given the opportunities. the cousin but it is america that is come along -- because of it is america that is, a long way. host: would you think of blacks being called "you people"? guest: it is insensitive. i don't think it is not necessarily pejorative -- i don't think it is meant to be pejorative but that is how they are cultivated to speak. learn early if you that people are pretty much the

same, that you shouldn't be dividing people based on race or gender or orientation or national origin or whether they speak english or spanish, you should measure a person by their character. if we learned this early -- there is a song in "south pacific" that says you have to be carefully taught. many of us are carefully taught what a think of one another based on our differences rather than embracing those differences. host: maverick tweets guest: we would have a conversation, but it would be a different conversation. i think, withed, president obama being president is we have seen this new jim crow, more to the surface. racism hasn't gone away and like one of the callers said, it probably never will, but we need to manage it, but to manage it

we needed to come into the open and with a black president we have seen it come into the open. that beautiful building over there, when he gave the state of the union, the audacity, the rudeness and breaking decorum of somebody yelling out he was a liar -- you never speak -- you might think that and say to your friends, but that in -- and that augusta but he is going to say that is a money occupying the presidency of the united states, calling him an anticolonial ke nyan? aren't we all anti-colonials? calling him names that are not legitimate? he is the lightning rod that they say about a lot of us that we are subhuman, that we are somewhere between being subhuman and criminal, that we are troubled. so many things that were not set that are being said. i think we have advanced the conversation where it is out in the open. ohio, at in cleveland,

few minutes left with our guest with janet langhart cohen. caller: good morning. i agree with you that this has brought races into the forefront with the president, but i would also like to say to all those people that seem to have so much common sense -- my grandmother the biggestme, bully in the world is an educated one because they think they know everything. -- the president is a black man, he had a white mom and he was raised by white people. why is it that if you have that one drop of blood, why people refuse to say you are white? of the black man -- because are the black man more superior? is there blood more superior, because that one drop would make us more superior that we are not white but black?

we do have conservative blacks, but the conservative blacks we have, like the supreme court justice thomas, condoleezza rice, they do not really relate to the average black person -- guest: well -- caller: and this fear of people being afraid of blacks, blacks do not get the majority of all eople could will -- majority of welfare. welfare was not started for black people. welfare was started for the people in appalachia. the first person to receive welfare was a white lady. i did not know what welfare was the 1970s. i moved from a black community in the 1950s to a 90% white community and went to a school where i had three blacks in my class but these kids were new

americans, europeans, did not come here with the perception that blacks were bonita them. the white kids -- were beneath them. the white kids played with the black kids, we went to their homes and ate dinner with them. the parents did in speaking with the children spoke english and there was no racial bias -- the parents didn't speaking wish, but the children spoke in this and there's no racial highest -- no racial bias. we spread this hate to others -- host: pat -- guest: i like her. caller: one more thing -- other people can come to this country and do not have to have their voting rights reaffirm. why do our voting rights have to be reaffirmed? thank you. guest: i heard what he said about clarence thomas being a conservative and i cannot speak for him. he doesn't speak for him on the court. condi rice -- i happen to know her and she is a personal friend of mine, and while she is conservative, very bright woman,

she is concerned about issues of race. she does identify as an african- american to richie is from alabama and was friends with one of the -- she is from alabama and was friends with one of the 4 black girls in that church. she does not need that vouching, but she is an african-american and she knows who she is, and she has fiscal conservative values but is socially liberal. i hope she doesn't mind me saying that word "liberal." host: we have been talking to janet langhart cohen when, the co-author of this book "love in black and white," and she has "washingtonst on journal." thank you for your time. guest: oh, peter, i've enjoyed it. host: we will have our "america by the numbers"

segment. if wee people say, well, cut the military we won't have the temptation to fight as much, and if the japanese want to fight against the chinese, let them do it and we are better off staying out, and if we have smaller military, we would eat is inclined to get involved. by the way, -- we would be

disinclined to get involved. by the way, i don't want to fight the chinese, but that aside, i don't see a correlation between higher defense budgets and greater likelihood of intervening. wereorld was began when we unprepared. the korean war began when we were unprepared. the vietnam war was a little bit more complex, and you know that consistently well. if you fast-forward to the thean years, in many ways reagan years -- people can correct me if they wish therwards or whenever, but reagan years are seen by many as the golden years of defense policy because we build up the budget and we didn't really use the military. is not a wonderful outcome? i'm not saying it is all ronald reagan's great judgment that led to that kid there were happy circumstances as well. but there's no correlation between increasing the budget and the proclivity to intervene militarily. weekend on c-span, brookings institution discussion on defense department budget cuts, saturday morning at 10:00 eastern. booktv," the muslim

brotherhood and its influence across the middle east. tv, andmerican history look at the interment of japanese americans during world war ii and the political battle .or redress sunday at 4:15. tonight on c-span's encore presentation of "first ladies" -- >> jackson truly liked women, love his mother, for example, and could not stand to see women mistreated or badly treated in any way. his gallantry was involved with what he saw as abuse of this woman, and when they fell in love they decided to below -- elope in spanish territory at the time. said,hey came back they oh, we're married now.

her whole family, including her mother, said, "yes, this is our son-in-law, andrew jackson." who is going to tell them no, who is going to say, what about that other husband? people accepted it because family and friends accepted it. >> the encore presentation continues tonight at 9:00 eastern on c-span. "> "washington journal continues. byt: this week on "america the numbers," we look at the fiscal health of state and local governments. joining us is jeff barnett with the u.s. census bureau. he is with the local government finance and statistics branch. he is the chief of that branch. also joining us is tracy gordon of the brookings institution, economic studies fellow. ms. gordon, let's start with you. healthy state and

local governments are today? lott: they are doing a better than they were couple years ago. states at the 13th consecutive corner of increased taxes. a few years ago they had five consecutive quarters of decreases. revenues are coming back. slowerlocal level at a -- it is slower. when house prices decline it took property taxes to fault too. general revenues are coming back. anytime you talk of the nation, it is never the same across the country. it never make sense to talk about the average temperature or average revenues. some states are doing better than others, and the state budget offices would point out that the rate of growth has been less than historical averages, and they not only lost out on revenues during the recession, but the growth that would otherwise occur during that period. when you say the taxes coming in have increased, is that because they have increased

or revenues are higher? guest: both. in some cases the economy is coming back. nonfarm payrolls are coming back, jobs are coming back, but some states did connect temporary tax increases during the recession. -- did connect temporary tax increases during the recession. host: jeff barnett, chart from the census bureau. total revenue for state and local governments reached an all-time high of 3.4 trillion dollars in 2011, up 8.4% from 2010. that sounds good, doesn't it? guest: this sounds very good, and what we're seeing in the data that was released last month is there has been some finances ofin the state and local governments. total revenue increased by about eight percent to just over $3 trillion. we also had tax revenues increase for the first time in two years. they grew by about five percent.

corporate income taxes through about 10%, and for the first time we had growth in three years. in the first -- in the case of individual income tax receipts, they grew about 10% as well. that was the first increase in two years. populations increasing in cities as well. is that one of the reasons they're going up? guest: not necessarily. we don't collect data on population, and the revenues could be going up for a variety of reasons. one could be the improving economy. one could be tax rates that could increase, as tracy just mentioned. also havebarnett, you a chart you are prepared under debt for state and local governments. first of all, how do you define debt? fromof a stair step up 1992. overall, state and local government that has been nearing $3 trillion. what figures into that debt? local a state and

government issues that primarily for capital projects, usually to build roads, libraries, schools from the things of that nature. a is usually paid back over 20- or 30-year period. some of that is short-term debt. is it different than what we consider to be the debt of the u.s. government? guest: in some respects. bonds are buying public and there is a schedule to repay those bonds. debt?tracy gordon, guest: some of those -- some people look at those numbers and say it is a spiral staircase, but the government are is when they cannot pay -- baros when they cannot pay expenditures. state a local governments are not supposed to do that. for the most part when they borrow, they are borrowing to build something like a staircase or bridge or road.

it is appropriate that they do that, because future taxpayers will be paying back that borrowing and they are the one benefiting from that facility. it is different because there is an asset on the other side of the borrowing. differentuple headlines i want to share with our viewers and you and get your views on. bloomberg, a recent article. get mostensions up 12% in two years as stocks soar." , as a second issue, this of the front page of "the new york times" this morning. hurt borrowingt by its neighbors." when it comes to public pensions, what is the health of state and local governments? host: public pension data includes gains and losses on investment income, also includes

dividends. what you see with public pensions is the revenue can be quite volatile and that it usually attracts what is happening in the capital markets , in particular the stock market. they are also funded by contributions, which include contributions from state government employees and local government employees. tracy gordon, one of the factors that came into the detroit bankruptcy was its public pensions. i think the emergency manager in detroit has estimated that the city owes something like $18 billion in debt, $3.5 billion of that in unfunded pension liabilities. jeff mentioned, a lot of things going to a pension funding situation. to them is whether the government is making contributions. thene of them is whether government is making contributions paid that is a problem in detroit. the government has borrowed to make contributions, just like borrowing to pay your monthly bills.

not necessarily a good idea or a sustainable. in some cases they might have sweetened the pot. several members are under investigation by the sec. nevertheless, the asset returns that you talked about a couple years ago didn't look so good. for that reason it called attention to the funding of state and local pensions generally. in some ways detroit is its own case and in other ways it brings up the fact that on average, state and local pensions are 80% funded -- i'm sorry, 73% funded. 80% is the target we would like to be. street at thethe capitol are concerned about that and the way the federal government is going to have to bailout state and local governments. most state constitutions require that the pension be treated as a contract, inviolable. it is not clear where the money is going to come from. a lot of states have taken aggressive maneuvers to perform pensions, but most of those

apply to future hires and not current employees. that is a long-term problem. this not like the $3.5 billion needs to be paid off today in detroit, or that the shortfall in state and local pensions generally needs to be addressed today. but the longer you wait the worse the problem gets. could the pbgc step into the detroit situation and pay this pensions? have talkedpeople about that. the issue with the pbgc is that it is an insurance fund and you want to have premiums that cover the amount that you are going to have to pay, that are actuarially fair. some would argue that pbgc rates are not keeping up with its risks. similarly i would worry about creating a similar type of entity for state and local government pensions and then not letting it do its job. there is always the question about where the money would come from. tracy gordon of brookings and jeff barnett of the u.s. census bureau.

our topic, state and local governments and the fiscal health. you can see the numbers on the screen divided by region. i think i've gotten the numbers screwed up. aside a thirdset line this money for state and local employees. if you work for state and local governments, we would like to get your view on the discussion this morning. host: and you can always tweak in a question or comment this -- as well. jeff barnett, you see this chart i have in front of me and the camera as well. what are we looking at here? guest: what we're looking at here is how state and local government expenditures have increased over the past five years. i want to talk about how we classify state and local

government revenue and expense was. -- andcally expenditures. we basically have four sectors -- the general government sector, the utility sector, the insurance trust sector, and a liquor store sector. host: a liquor store sector? guest: 17 states own or operate liquor stores. local -- in five states and local governments own or operate liquor stores. this, the we look at insurance trust expenditure, which is what? guest: it includes employee retirement and unemployment compensation. host: that includes the pension issue we were talking about earlier. guest: exactly. as you can see from this chart, between 2007 and 2011, that combined expenditure was almost 70%. it was the largest such group for state and local governments. 70% ofoes this mean that state and local government costs our intentions -- this is an

growth only. guest: this is growth only. host: when it comes to education, 10% increase over the past five years. public welfare -- what is included? guest: public welfare provide services for the needy. it includes administrative and --ck medicaid and temporary administrative things like medicaid and temporary assistance for families and direct assistance to vendors. host: hospitals, highways, the insurance trust expenditure. ,hen we look at these numbers is a mostly states are mostly means of colonies. --wesley states are minas abilities -- is it mostly states or municipalities? guest: mostly states. there are many more local governments than states -- host: 89,000. how many of those have taxing authority?

all 20 not -- all 89,000? guest: it varies. in some cases we have very small governments that are more drainage districts, which are pretty tiny and may not necessarily exercise taxing authority. much offf barnett, how your time over the last six months or so has been spent studying detroit? is it an anomaly? as a special case? -- is it a special case? guest: more than likely it is an anomaly. there are 40,000 local governments in the united states. we look at things across the nation and we don't generally focus on one particular city. we stay abreast of what is happening in the news and we know when a large city picked -- because bankruptcy. but we are looking across the country and we don't necessarily focus in on one place. but when you see this story in "the new york times,"

what effect can you foresee on cities and localities? guest: we don't executive forecast, but just from the things i've read, if we continue to see municipal bankruptcies, that could impact the municipal bond market. there is been a lot of speculation on that. it is interesting to see with the data shows in the next two years. host: ok, city like las vegas, which has been down in the dumps especially in the housing market for a long time, saw an increase in housing, etc. when you look at city -- when you look at that city, do you judge itsel -- do you judge its health as part of the census bureau? guest: no, we don't judge the fiscal health. we look at the revenue, expenditures, debt, and assets. from that we can paint a picture of what the potential health is, but we don't actually forecast and say this state is more .ealthy than this city

we put the data out there and it is used to influence that type of debate. reminder, our third line this money set aside if you are a state and local employee. tracy gordon, how would you judge the health, then? you are on to be our commentator in a sense could have would you judge -- you are on to be our commentator in a sense. how would you judge the health of las vegas? guest: las vegas is doing better. ates -- e of the stan st host: stan states? guest: nevada was one of the worst off in terms of its budget crisis, the gap between revenues and its miniatures at had to fill, because states, unlike the federal government, have to balance each cycle.

nevada, las vegas, those types of places are coming back and you have this temporarily large setback. the auto industry [to go and have been losing appellation for years -- the auto industry several years ago and has -- the article talked about cities in michigan where they have different demographics and people are leaving jobs, and bonfires are skittish now because it is unclear how they will be -- bond buyers are skittish because it is unclear how they will be treated in the detroit bankruptcy proceedings. other states are doing just fine. roiling talk about markets, you have to be specific about the purpose the city were talking about the legal framework. what city are you keeping an eye on as the money who watches this kind of thing that could go the same as the toward our fall into a fiscal trap --

the same way as detroit and fall into a fiscal trap, and what city would you describe is healthy? guest: i keep an eye on a range of cities and would not want to describe a particular city as heading into the brain. some have come close to the bank and have been able to get stakeholders to the table that they otherwise would not have been able to. and falls -- and rhode island, they got them to agree to retirement benefits and it was a big deal. unfortunately, they still went over the precipice into bankruptcy. bankruptcy is a very rare outcome could something like . that couldies declare bankruptcy stash some states don't allow it, some intervened. jeff barnett, another chart together by the census bureau. what are we looking at? guest: this is total revenue,

and total revenues grouped into four sectors. taxes are the largest component of the sector. it revisits just over half of all revenue. -- it represents just over half of all revenue. after that, we have intergovernmental revenue. such as public welfare, education, housing and community development, highways. categorys -- the next is charges. hospitals, toll roads, higher education fees, things of that nature. is thellest category miscellaneous general revenue category. that is a percent of total general revenue. -- eight percent of total general revenue. these two categories are not general. what does that mean, not general? guest: more of the day-to-day operations of the government.

and things like -- host: tensions. guest: and not just pensions, well, andsation as you go through your basic utilities, gas, water, electric, and there is a liquor store sector. very tiny. host: it is very tiny. when it comes to revenue, do miss -- do municipalities still own utilities today? guest: i don't know about the majority, but they still own them. host: let's take some calls. calvin in macon, georgia. thanks for holding great you are on with tracy gordon wrote for things -- you are on with tracy gordon of brookings and government of the census bureau. caller: good morning. host: we're listening, sir. caller: my statement is in the form of a question. -- brookings, i mean host: that is tracy gordon.

please turn down your tv. listen to your phone. tracy gordon is with the things. caller: ok, ms. gordon, i understand that brookings is somewhat of a watchdog organization. me in the world can you tell that from the federal government to state and local government, how did we get in this situation? how in the world did we come from the biggest loughner to the biggest de -- biggest loaner to the biggest debtor? we are in a terrible state. how do we get this right -- how did we get this way? are there organizations watching was spending our money? this is our money, hard-earned money, and they are throwing it away. host: thank you, calvin. caller: it sounds like the question is about all levels of government, federal, state, local.

what makes looking at the data so interesting is that this is the outcome of the legal process. caller, my, like the not be happy with how the process is working. but we have a question of how much government we want and how much we are willing to pay for. the question then becomes how do we do it in the best possible way, the most efficient and equitable and economically competitive and administratively feasible, fair way of doing it? lining or positive outcome of the recession is that people have become more engaged in their local government. they know more about where the money is coming from and where it is going to. host: then in ohio. good morning. morning.ood i am also a public worker. my question is about -- it seems the pension promise came on due to the recession and the drop in the market, but the market is rebounded back to the position it was and as gandhi on that.

-- and has gone beyond that. we are still asked to contribute as -- also, wer are supposed to contribute a next or five years -- extra five years for overtime. am curious why the numbers don't seem to back that up. you say you are a public worker. what kind of work you do? caller: high school teacher. host: are you in a pension plan? caller: yes. host: can you give us an idea of what that means? in x number of years -- caller: i think it is called a defined plan. a sickly, you sign up and you are told -- basically you sign up and you are told you are going to work -- in my case it was 30 years. you work your 30 years and then they take a percentage of your last five years of service. that is what your retirement benefit is going to be. host: that would be for life

after 30 years, correct? caller: correct. host: now you are being asked to contribute another five years to that? caller: yes, we're supposed to contribute another five years, another 15%. of -- iscal health caller: state of ohio. host: state of ohio, ok. appreciate that. mr. barnett, how many people are in that situation, where they are on a public pension or soon to be? do you have a macro number? guest: it is somewhere about 3 million for a public sector employee. host: about 3 million public- sector employees? our states and local governments -- are state and local governments going more towards the former three b plan, or we will make a contribution and you )ake care of it -- the 403(b

plan, or we will make the confirmation and you take care of it? guest: that is possible. curly of data are only the defined benefit plans. we're doing research to determine in the future if we can cover the defined contribution plans. we don't exactly know, but in the future we are hoping to know that. host: are they less than they used to be? the number of people in a defined pension plan? guest: it could be, but what we're saying is we see the growth rate is pretty stable as far as the active members -- where it is pretty stable as far as the active members. liability?about the what is the total macro liability number? guest: we don't mention liability. we mentioned total revenue received in pension obligations.

it involves a much more compact formula. we don't actually do that. people can use data to do that but we don't actually talk to lay the liability or the underfunded status of the pension plan. calculatet actually the liability or the underfunded status of the pension plan. host: receipts -- guest: pension obligations. host: where are those macro numbers? do you know them? guest: yes. host: which chart to me go to? i don't think -- which chart can we go to? i don't think we have that long. can you walk us through this chart? guest: what this chart shows you is how revenues have changed over time for state public pension plans. this starts in 2002. you can see where the market is doing well. you see the earnings on investment are quite high. when the market doesn't do well, like in 2008, 2009, you see in

the orange part where earnings and investment go to the negative range could what you see is pretty constant contributions from the state and local government. host: that is the blue. guest: politely was some state government -- the light blue with some state government. host: the employee contribution is small -- guest: contributions is the dark blue. host: earnings is the rust orange color. tracy gordon, how do you interpret these numbers? guest: i think it is important to note that it is not just because of the returns of the rust bars that things are not looking good for pensions. it is because of the legacy of underfunding. a lot of people think of state and local pensions like social security. current workers pay into it and that was to benefit current retirees. in practice that does happen but that is not the way disposed

work. it is not -- that is not the way it is supposed to work. it is compensation for labor, like a wage. the government should be paying that bill when they incur that bill, setting aside funds for pensions. they didn't always do that, and they were aided by a counting standards that appropriately allow them to smith gains and losses just like you would an individual investor. individual year like 2000 and shouldn't matter so much. shouldn't matter so much. accounting standards are changing to recognize those market events sooner, because you want to err on the side of caution. another issue is how you think about liabilities. the reason it is difficult to is becauseiabilities they occur in the future, and there's disagreement about how you should treat those -- as if they are happening today because they are so certain, so codified in law, or if you should treat them as less certain because they are in the future.

the number of unfunded liabilities changes a lot depending on the type of assumption. one estimate by state and local own math is that the pensions were about a trillion dollars underfunded. a lot of economists have said that we should treat those obligations as very, very certain. if you do that, there staring you in the face today, and in your liabilities that are like $3 trillion, $4 trillion, including local government liabilities. as i said earlier, we don't have to tackle that all at once today , but it should be a daunting number. host: we have about a minute left. caller: hello, thank you for c-span. my main concern is the lack of funding. financial difficulties, they

add a to their program. their program. i do not think it goes to education, because we have had to enormous powerball winners that half of their money went to taxes. i would like to know how that out with theirs evaluations? host: your evaluations? most states do in fact earmark there lottery winnings for the education, but it varies by state. in most states it is

something like less than two percent of education. fund education by any means. according to the census bureau, and 2011 -- into the 11 the delaware river state local governments regional time i have the report related to the 11th. we are out of time. we appreciate both of you all giving a short time today. ♪