i think the jugs judge's instructions should move it along. host: what's the make-up of the jury? , 10 women -- federal juries tend to be suburban. they come from the greater boston area. it is impossible to read juries. people make millions of >> you can watch more online in our seats and video archives. tomorrow on washington journal, americans protest the reform president -- discuss the repeal the healthcare law for one year. then, he looks at his network latest series, in thing on inequality in the u.s. justices him. after, as manager of education we talked about, and for

standards initiative and how it plays into the overall education in the u.s. "washing journal" is live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. season two of "first ladies" begins monday, september 9 with a look at the life of roosevelt. encore presentations of season one. each weeknight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, programs on every first lady. during tonight's encore presentation of our "first ladies" program, a story and will answer your questions about julia tyler at facebook.com/c- span. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by

national captioning institute] >> she was not happy her husband had been elected president. she never made it to washington. >> when he resigned, he and his wife and their family moved here to williamsburg. it was here that letitia tyler suffered a stroke. john tyler learned he was elected as vice president of william perry region william henry harrison. it is here that he became 10th president of the united states, so she learned she became the first lady. >> she had another terrible stroke, and her husband goes into morning, and then he meets another young lovely in her 20's. >> i think of her as the madonna

of first ladies. she posed as a model at a time that was frowned upon, by all accounts was bewitching. >> there were 90 slaves, and they were her supervision. julia lobbied for her husband, and she supported him tremendously in everything she did. >> untimely death, a secret marriage, and outsize personality are stories of the women we examined tonight. good evening, and welcome to the season series of first ladies. william henry harrison was in office, and a month later, he dies. to learn about time, we have the

chair of the history department, and she has been working with us many times on this series. nice to see you again. school children have all grown up with the phrase, tippecanoe tyler too. he was elected at age of 68, a record no president beat until ronald reagan. who was this? >> i announce with a bit of pride he was from my home county, but he moved to ohio. he was a military man initially. he studied medicine for a short time and decided to join the military and shortly thereafter moved to ohio. he became the territorial

governor of indiana and was a noted indian fighter. the term tippecanoe comes from the battle of tippecanoe, where he fought with his brother. as territorial governor, tyler was -- harrison was instrumental in securing land for white settlers, and that clashed with native american interest, so i've done battle, harrison was considered the victor. -- at that battle, harrison was considered the victor. it carried him into public office.

>> his wife was not happy about him being drawn back into politics. we have a quote from her that says, i wish my husband's friends have left him where he was, happy and contented. how was he drawn into politics again? let's talk about what type of political spouse he was. >> it is an interesting time, because it is the time of the second american party system. there are two distinct parties, the democratic party with andrew jackson as leader and the whig party. william henry harrison becomes a

member of the weak party after it was founded. he was the first candidate for the whig party after it was founded. he was the first candidate for that party in 1836. the democrats were divided enough they could win. >> anna harrison had been with him through a long political career. what do we know about her? >> we know she was a religious woman. we know she was a reluctance first lady. she did not get to be first lady and the white house, because the day her husband and other members of the family left to go to washington, she was too ill to travel. the day she was all packed up and ready to join him in washington was the day she got notification he died. >> how did he die? >> that is an interesting question. the answer was always that he was not going to wear a top hat

and topcoat to his inauguration, and he was exposed to cold weather and caught a cold and died. i think it is more complex than that. he was an older gentleman. he was exhausted by office seekers in the first month of his presidency, and i think all of that compromised his health, so he did eventually catch a bad cold that turns into pneumonia, and as a consequence, he did die. >> anna harrison was the first first lady to have a public education. but she certainly did read political journals, but i do not believe she was a political person. i do not believe she would have the role other first ladies would later on, especially the person who follows her. the second person, john tyler's second wife, but at least during the time, even though she did not come to the white house, she did use her influence to get appointments for her nephews and sons and grandsons, so she would have been political in that way but not the way he would think of with someone like julia tyler.

>> which we will learn more of tonight. and this comment, she must have had good genes. what was going on in the harrison family that it produced so many political leaders? >> they were one of the first families of virginia, so you would have had them be involved in the revolution. they have a long history of political involvement. i think it is where they are

located by the mid 1800's in the northwest territory, in this area that is opening up in the country, and these men are getting politically involved because of its. >> our facebook page asks, is it true she helped raise her son who became president? any influence she had on her son who became president? >> her home burned, and she went to live with one of the sons. what influence she had, we do not know. grandma's to have an influence. >> there was only a month in the white house, but there were some social things and had to happen. how did that role get fulfilled without first lady?

>> there were two other women who carry out her duties. one was jane irving harrison, who was a widow. she was married to one of the harrison men, but he died. now william henry asked her to serve in that capacity, and she was assisted by one of her aunts. she gave her some guidance. she was not the official hostess, but she did give guidance. >> is it true dolly madison also was around to offer advice? >> i think she offered advice whenever she got away with it.

she would have been nearby from time to time. >> one last thing legacy was she was the first presidential window to get attention for her service. how did that happen? >> for husband died in office, and she needed the assistance, so congress inappropriate $35,000 for her. >> which was not an on substantial amount of money. when he dies in office this is the first time this has happened. did it create a constitutional crisis?

>> it certainly did. the constitution does indicate if the president is not there, those duties on the vice president, but it did not say what the status of that person would be. would he be carrying out the duties as vice president, as acting president, or as the new president, sir john tyler decided he was not going to let them thing too long about it, so he declared himself president, and he had congress pass resolutions declaring him president. not everyone agrees with that, so occasionally mail came to new the white house addressed to the acting president or the vice president, and he had those documents returned unopened. >> who was tyler? >> he was born in virginia. he lived only a couple of miles down the road from the harrison a state.

he was born in green way. he was an interesting president, because although he was elected on the ticket with william henry harrison, he had been a jacksonian democrats early on in his political career and had joined the whig party, but once he became president, he abandoned the weak platform and angered them. >> we are going to learn more about the john tyler presidency and the women who served as his first lady. we are going to introduce you to the lives they had not been what

we call colonial williamsburg. >> when john tyler resigned from the senate, he and his wife and their families moved here to williamsburg to establish a law practice. he reconstructed his law office. the house they live in was no longer here. they were situated in the center of the town. the court house is right across the street. this is the beating heart of williamsburg, even in the 1830's, so all of the political activity, the social activity, they are living in the center of it in this fantastic 18th- century house. john tyler was resurrected in his political career. she is going to be operating out of the house. right here, letitia tyler suffered a stroke in 1839. that partly would paralyze her, although she was able to regain control of the family business while john tyler was getting involved in politics. it was in this space john tyler

learned he was elected as vice president to william henry harrison, and it was also here in the spring of 1841 he was informed he became the 10th president of the united states, and it was here that she learned she became the first lady of the united states. >> now we are back on set, and joining us is the gentleman you saw on the video. he is a colonial williamsburg historian. he is also an expert on the area where the tylers hail from. give us a sense of what kind of characteristics of a person of public life would bring from the office from having been there. >> i think when you are talking about virginia, you are getting over the american revolution, not letting go of thomas jefferson and the kind of revolutionary principles but are supposed to inform public conduct and public virtue, but by the time you get to john tyler's career, those things start to coalesce into notions about states' rights, notions about what is the proper use of the constitution, notions about the extent of authority. you hear them talk a great deal

about the principles of 1798, about the kentucky resolution and the ability of the states to

override a unconstitutional actions, so these principles of the american revolution are being fought over, but also the kinds of things that come from the expectation of a public leader. they need to be virtuous. that is the only way you can make a good public policy. >> stephanie johnson wants to know where did they meet. >> they met where almost everybody meets at the time. in williamsburg. they lived not that far from each other. john tyler is from charleston county in a place called green way, and letitia tyler is from kent county, which is only a stone's throw away, and we know they met in about 1811 or 1812.

john tyler went to william and mary with letitia's brother. they were the same age. they were 21 and 22 when they met, and they fell in love very quickly. >> we have been incorporating your tweets. can also call us. we are hoping you texans call up, because this administration was responsible for the annexation of texas. the tylers have a lot of children. >> it is what kept them apart for a great deal of their married lives. john tyler was constitutionally incapable of being out of public

office. he was addicted to it so left her at home to run the family, to run the business, and to continue to manage this incredible group of children they had almost from the very start. >> running their plantation would have been how large an operation? >> one of the issues is a are always on the very edge of solvency, so they never live one place more than 10 years. they are always moving around. they own between 30 and 35 slaves, and they are growing wheat and corn for about 600 acres to 900 acres, and that is between plantations. they then moved to the other side of virginia, so they are continuing to try to figure out a way during these striking economic changes to the country and go into what is going on in 1837, to find a way they can keep their heads above water,

and with john tyler gone for so long and so often, six months out of every year while the is in public office, this leaves a lot of burden resting on letitia's shoulders. >> this was a tough woman. she had a stroke and was paralyzed and continued to handle operations.

>> that is indicative of the kind of life women live, even wealthy women. life was tough for them, but it was made easier for them by enslaved laborers, and they did use those to great advantage for them. >> what is known for their attitude at this point toward slavery? >> we know quite a bit. john tyler is one of the staunchest supporters of slavery that ever inhabited the white house. he was vocal about it through most of his career, and he said, slavery is the greatest property

a southerner can own. he believes it is the backbone of society. letitia we know less about. we know from a story that ends up in abolitionist press in the 19th century of a former enslaved man who had been a member of a christian family who

recalled that john taylor may have been less kind to enslave men and women in the field, but when it came to the enslaved men and women in the household, he stopped right there. they were under letitia's protection. they were treated well. you could read into a story like that, but john tyler's views were consistent. letitia was different. >> here is 1840 view of america through the senses. the population reached 17 million in 26 states. we consistently see 30%.

slaves #2.5 million, which is almost 15% of the population, and new orleans joins the list of the largest cities in the united states. we heard about the tylers and their attitude toward slavery. give us an indication of what was happening in 1840. >> this is a tremendous time of sexual tension. we like to think the country is divided regionally, that everyone in the north is anti slavery and everyone in the south is proslavery. it is not that simple. people in the north benefited from slavery and the slave trade until it was ended. they now move into a different economic arena. they no longer need slavery, and slippery as a threat to them because of the free labor system in the north, and the kinds of

the economy that is needed to preserve institutions in the north are different from those in the south, so what is happening in congress is both groups want to control legislation, because if you are in more industrialized regions, we want certain parts of laws passed to preserve the economy. if you are more agrarian, you will need laws to support that. there is a tremendous amount of concern about the expansion of slavery. it is not so much the northerners are anti slavery because they are humanitarian. it is because of how slavery impacts them or how expansion impacts them. >> our first caller from michigan. >> and now i love the series. i would like to know what is the duration of both of the president's marriages, and how many children would he have as a result of those marriages? thank you so much. >> i saw one book and referred to john tyler was the father of our country.[laughter] >> i think they have 16 or 17 children. >> i did the total was 15. now there were 8 by letitia and 7 by julia. >> he was married to letitia for 29 years, and he was married to julia for 18.

>> the tylers learn of the fact they are coming to the white house and he is the 10th president of the united states. her health is precarious. how does she carry out the role as first lady? >> it depends on how you define the role. what is first lady? is it somebody married to the president, or do they have to fulfill these roles? she is by nature a retired person. she prefers a quiet life. now she does not like the kind of quiet activities of first lady who would normally associate with. even without her illness, i think it would have been a fairly quiet white house. that does not mean there are not

other people to fulfill these roles. that means she has to have other people do it for them. it is a close-knit family. they have a lot of daughters living in the white house. she turned that over to them. >> gary robinson asked, what role did priscilla cooper have in the white house and after her death? >> she served as hostess, and especially with the daughter, letitia, she is an interested person, because she was an actress at a time when it was not a good thing. it was not considered respectable, but the tylers and accepted her. letitia accepted her.

she was very close to her. she would have been performing most of the functions. it is not so much that she was not doing anything. even though she was disabled, she is still giving orders from her bedroom. she cannot go out the way her daughter can. >> do we have any evidence his daughter counseled him? >> yes. she said, stay out of it. as we talk about it, he could not stay out of politics. she gave up. as we mentioned over and over again, he respected her prudence and judgment that political

issues he reserved those for conversations with his male riends. >> that was a big debate in the congress, about whether or not there should be appropriations or this vice president who assumed thepiesy and whether or not they should pay for his expenses in the white house. yet you suggest that they entertained quite a lot. how did they do that? >> it had to have been with his own funding. congress did not appropriate money for them. at least not to fix up the white house. and the white house was an absolute mess at that time. just really in very poor repair. so he must have used some of his own funds to entertain people. and they did entertain lavishly. >> you suggested earlier that they were always on the edge of solvency. how did they do that? >> they were on a shoestring.

so you assume this is coming out of the salary as president. one of the people who is the most extravagant in that entire white house is john tyler himself. he spends most of his life in one sort of complicated debt after another. and having his family, particularly people like letitia, trying to keep them outside of it. yet there are these -- there are these lavish entertainments. so priscilla, who probably is taking a page out of someone else's book, she holds -- during the congressional session she'll hold two formal dinner parties every week, she'll do every other week public receptions in the evenings. she will hold public parties every month that would have as many as 1,000 people. she opened up the white house on new year's eve, on new year's. she opened up the white house on july fourth and she started the tradition of having the marine band do a performance in the south lawn.

they are finding ways to do that you. ut they might be doing it with mirrors because given congress' battle with john tyler, they don't appropriate a cent for the upkeep of that white house during his entire presidency. >> next is a call from marvin in los angeles. hi, marvin. >> hello. my question has to do with a constitutional question. article 2, section 1, says the electers shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for two persons of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves and if both of them came from the same county in virginia, how was it that they could both be president and vice president? and the second part of my question is, is it true that tyler was called his ex densey because of the way he took over as president through the death

of harrison? thank you very much for taking my question. >> thanks for asking it. >> first of all, they were born in charles city county, they were not living in charles city county the time they were elected. harrison was in ohio. john tyler was in virginia. but harrison was in ohio. and the other question was about -- >> among other things he was called. >> one of the nicer things he was called. >> absolutely, yes. the accidental president or his accidency because no one expected that john tyler was going to ascend to the presidency. >> what kinds of issues did he face when he came to office? >> well, there are the personal ones and then there are the broader political ones. the personal ones are that people didn't trust him. they didn't like him. they didn't expect that he was going to be on the ticket in the first placest. wasn't a first choice of being a vice presidential candidate for the wig party and so they

were fine with letting him go off and livey williamsburg while william harrison was in the white house. so those are personal things he has to deal with. the broader political issues are really -- there's certainly the issue over the renewal of the bank of the united states. there are major issues all over the tariff and over protective tariffs and how he felt about it, depends on what part of the country you lived in. but of course the biggest one that comes up to define the presidency i think is really about the ex pax of slavery -- expansion of slavery. the annexation of texas and what that means for either the republic or its weak innocence terms of what you think of the impact that has on slavery. >> next is a call from harold watching us in sioux city, iowa. >> yes, thank you for taking my call. i really enjoy the program. my question is, you've had a number of talks about jackson and tyler and they both had slaves.

how did those slaves fare after and during the civil war and were those plantations burnt by the yankees? or how did that come out? i'll hang up and let you answer. thank you. >> certainly the union army is coming through, twice, actually, as a consequence of mcclellan's peninsula campaign. and each time that the union army comes through, the enslaved population leaves. they take the opportunity to leave. what's happening in charles city, on the tyler plantation is that julia has left. she has fled and gone to new york, stanton island, to live with her mother. -- staten island to live with her mother. so there are enslaved people left behind. and it is reported that some of them take over the plantation. certainly the house is -- there

are some things that are done by the union army, probably, and perhaps by local people as well. the plantation is in a bit of a mess when the war is over. this is not that unusual for plantations in certain areas of the south. at that time. they certainly do -- enslaved people certainly do suffer during the war but they get their freedom as a consequence of it as well. and so there is an incident where julia writes to president lincoln because one of her eighbors, who is a notorious you is sessionest -- secessionist is arrested by the union army and it happens to be a part of the union army that's under the control of general wilede who is commander of the african -- wilde who is commander of the african brigade. and some of the people attached to that unit had been enslaved by this gentleman, and they are

allowed to beat him and julia is absolutely enraged at the idea. she's also concerned as well that they are niece is left behind. so she's concerned about her well-being. but she actually writes to president lincoln and complains about it and she signs her tter, "mrs. ex-president tyler." she loved to use that. >> we haven't even introduced julia into our tale yet. tell us about the death of letitia tyler. she died on september 10 in 1842. she had a massive stroke. >> did she die instantly? >> there's no evidence that there's any kind of lingering, that she dies fairly quickly. and it is -- it hits the family like a ton of bricks. >> was there a white house funeral for her? >> not that we know of. they kept things very private and in fact she was buried at , rather than ce

at anyplace else that they may have lived. she was buried at her home, with her parents. it was a very quiet, a very quiet event. but it was mostly manifested in the kind of impact that it had on her children. they were devastated. >> what about the president himself? what was his reaction to losing his wife? >> at the time, from his letters, we know that he was obviously emotionally attached to letitia. she had been a huge part of his life for a very long time and he loved her dealer. however, we also have evidence that he's seeing julia gardner tyler probably about four months after her death. >> and who is julia gardner? is young woman from long island, new york, from where in fact anna harrison had gone to school.

e is from a very well-known, long-standing new york family with ties deep into the 17th century. -- own gardners island and her family still owns gardners island, and her father was a new york state senator. they were in washington frequently for the social seasons and she was well known at the white house and was well known to the daughters of the tylers and was even known to come over not just for the parties but to do things like quiet games. so the family knew her quite well. she was quite beautiful. and quite ram bunk shuss and was very well educated both here and in europe. so it made her quite a charming woman to be around. >> and she quickly caught the widowed president's eye. >> she quickly caught the widowed president's eye.

this moved shockingly quickly. >> we have to establish the difference in age between the two. >> yes. julia gardner is 30 years, almost exactly, younger -- was 30 years younger than john tyler. and so when they got married . e was 24 and he was 54 >> one of the amazing things, we told you how many children john tyler had. one of his grandchildren is still alive and inhabits the tyler's home in tide water area, virginia. you're looking at it right now. he and his wife are residents of the house that they also make available for tourists. he's 84 years old and we visited him recently in tyler's orest, the home. when they got to the

fort, there was a barge into the bay, they fired a big cannon at the barge. everyone was very pleased with it. the ship turned around and headed back to washington. the hard core few wanted to fire again. so they fired -- they wanted to fire again. but it was turned down. now they're passing mount vernon. so the question was changed to stop the ship and fire the gun in honor of our first president. they couldn't turn that down. but when the ship did face downstream, the gun fired the cannon, the gun, instead of firing, it blew and killed seven people. among them, senator gardner, also the secretary of state,

the secretary of the navy. everyone downstate felt the ship when it exploded. so all the handsome young officers that were surrounding my grandmother, who was 23 years old at the time, but very beautiful, my grand father had been trying to get there and talk to her but couldn't because of all the handsome young naval officers around. but when the explosion happened, they rushed upstairs to do whatever they're trained to do. and left her standing there. she fell in behind them. my grandfather fell in behind her, going up the steps up to the deck, they came running back, calling out, don't let mrs. gardner up, her father is dead. when she heard that, my grandmother fainted, right back into the arms of the president. he caught her tenderly and gently. so the ship did go and dock and when it docked he picked her up and carried her down. as she was going down, she came to. later she wrote her mother saying that the first thing she

remembered was going down the gang plank in the arms of the president. could struggled and she look up into his eyes and she wrote her mother saying, i realized for the first time that the president loved me dealer. >> we promised at the outset that there would be a tale of a secret marriage. tell the story. >> june 26, 1844, it's only four months after the disaster of the u.s.s. princeton. so julia's father's only been dead for four months so there's still a period of mourning that should be publicly and appropriately observed. but he has -- john tyler has secured, even in that rough period of time, secured the permission of her mother for them to get married. she was worried about his financial situation and about whether or not he would be able to continue her into the manner she was accustomed and when he was able to do that

sufficiently she gave her permission. they had a very, very small, private, secret wedding at a church in new york city. there were only a handful of people there. one of his sons, a couple of his political friends and a few members of her family. but the public didn't know about it until the next day. >> so the president disappears from washington, checks himself into a hotel in new york city and gets married. >> yeah. it shows up in the newspaper that he's just going off to basically -- he's going off to take a vacation. he pops up in new york city and then it's in the newspaper the next day, oh, by the way, the president has just gotten married. to one of new york's most prominent people. >> what was the reaction at the time? >> people gossiped about it. it was so soon after his wife's death. although it really was not that soon after her death. but they were very much concerned about the age difference. with many people feeling that it wasn't fair to julia that

she was married to this man who was so much older than she was. so, a lot of people didn't like it. his daughters certainly did not. >> they felt it was too soon. >> because they were very local to -- loyal to their mother, understandably. but there was one daughter who never got over it, letitia. and the other daughters made their peace. and the sons never seemed to have a problem with it. but that one daughter never reconciled with her step-mother. a here is julia tyler, letter she wrote to her mother about this event. the secrecy of the affair is on the tongue and the admiration of everyone. everyone says it was the best-managed thing they ever heard of. >> that's a -- that the secret was, yeah. >> this could be rather self-revealing. the president says, i am the best of diplomattists. i have commenced my auspicious reign and am in the quiet

possession of the presidential mansion. this is a 24-year-old woman. what should we learn from this quote about her? >> she sees herself as queen of the land. she had spent some type in europe. after she had very notoriously posed for an engraving where she was advertising products, a store, actually. and that's something that respectable women did not do during that period. r parents had taken -- she and her sister to europe where hey were introduced at the court of louis philip of france and she admired how the queen received her guests and it was on -- she was seated of course and on a bit of a pedestal. so julia decided to do the same thing for a time. but she saw it very much as she

was the first lady of the land. and she was going to make the most of it. > from a family perspective, does john tyler have children earlier that his wife? >> yes. >> what was the family reaction? at he family reaction was first among the daughters very negative and very virulent. that it took -- she said, letitia never reconciled to it. lizzy, it was three months before she even acknowledged that the marriage had taken place. for the youngest daughter, she eventually came around. the oldest daughter came around. but the sons were already familiar enough with julia that they were ok with it. by then. >> reading that quote, do we have the sense that this was a young woman with great aspirations or was this really a love match? >> i think that there's

probably a little bit of both in that. it's tough for us to divide it out. mainly because the cords that exists between them and whatever happened in terms of their courtship, we know that john's head over heels for her and we know -- heals for her and we know he's writing shack spearian son ets to her and engaging in that kind of -- son nets to her and engidge -- engaging in that way of courting her. with her, it depends on who you believe in terms of what her goals are. in the end she ends up being his biggest supporter and biggest defender. and thanks to some very timely advice from her mother was able to really put that into action. >> next is a question from claire in maryland. >> hi. i just wanted to say that a few years ago a couple of us went to the sherwood plantation and tyler's grandson was there and

he spoke to us for about an hour. he was very gracious. and i wonder if could you just discuss a little bit about their connection with william and peculiary. thank you. -- mary. thank you. >> the connection goes back to the very beginning. you cannot separate william and mary from the tyler family at all. even to the present day, the tylers go there. harrison's father was president of william manned mary. his father -- mary. his father had gone to william and mary and had been chancellor of william and mary. his father had gone to william and mary. and the place is as tied with the tylers as the university of virginia is tied with thomas jefferson. >> another quote which may give some indication of the match between the tylers. this is julia writing about the president again in a letter to her mother. really, do you think there was ever a man so equal to any emergency? it is a sort of inspiration,

for his ideas are expressed at the moment of any emergency with perfect fluency and effect. [laughter] question from rachel davidson. how did julia gardner, a northerner, feel about becoming a slave owner upon her marriage to john tyler? >> that's an easy one. she comes from a family of slave owners. new york doesn't abolish slavery until 1817. the gardners owned slaves. there are slaves at gardner's island, that are owned by her family when she's born in 1820 she's as much born into the slave culture as anybody living in the tidewater. >> were there slaves in the white house in 1940? >> there must have been. the tylers would have brought enslaved people with them. we know that when the peacemaker, the gun, blew up on the princeton, one of the enslaved men owned by tyler was killed. and so clearly he had some of his enslaved people there in

the white house with him. >> you talked earlier about julia tyler having done this advertisement. she earned the monday consider, the rose of long island. she brought that sense of sensibility to her job, her eight months as the first lady. it is written in some books that she had the services of what would be thought of as a press agent. the president himself didn't have a press agent. >> no, not at all. >> she loved publicity. the more notorious the better. she made it a point of cultivating the friendship of a reporter and she would report what was happening in the white house in terms of the social events and he gave her a lot of personal attention in the articles that he wrote about her. so she was out there in a way that, as i indicated before,

respectable women did not do. but this is a new era. this is the time when the women's movement is under way and interestingly enough, you know, someone like julia tyler sort of fits into a certain extent. she's very conservative in some ways but in terms of breaking through the traditional way that a woman should behave, she's doing it in a way that other women are not at that time. >> this series is called "influence and image" so let's spend a few minutes on this image subject. in having someone help her with her press, she had these young women who traveled with her. they became known as the vessle virgins. -- vessel virgins. >> it seems that what she did was develop herow own court. -- develop her own court. the notion that a first lady could not possibly be seen

alone, that there is -- that she is respecting, and this is an interesting point about the development of the institution, that she's respecting something much bigger and so she had these young women who were joining her. they would call them the vessel virgins, they would call them a number of different things depending on which newspaper you were reading. but that she really believed that she was respecting something much bigger than just being the wife of the president. and to do that it requires display. it requires a very conscious shaping of image as political communication which gets back to the point you were making. >> she would receive her guests surrounded by these women, all dressed in white. >> and what was the public reaction to this? did they love it or criticize it? >> they seemed to be able to do no wrong. she had her critics but a lot of people loved her. especially men. [laughter] she also brought dancing to the white house.

>> right. she brought the polka she brought a number of things to the white house. but i think that when you're starting -- you're starting to get into the perceptions of that. it does work both ways. especially with the growth of the abolitionist press. that the abolitionist press starts to see these things that julia's doing in the white house, this level of extravagance, as being yet another example of the corruption of the slave parties. particularly in a distressed economic period, how could they be doing that? the only way is because they are gathering all of their wealth and benefits from the fact that they own other people. so in terms of the growth of that abolitionist press and the abolitionists send people just to keep an eye on the tyler white house and report back on things like this. what julia is doing is in fact in some quarters very detrimental to that broader

image while in other quarters, you know, it's very beneficial to supporting the idea of the impeeferial -- imperial presidency. >> in a certain extent she redeems herself when she responds to the duchess of southerland who criticized slavery in america and she writes a letter back and says pretty much, you need to take care of business at home. you've got people from the lower class there who are starving. and so she doesn't say slavery is right, but she does imply that slavery's not as bad as what's happening in england. >> joe in pennsylvania. you're on for our panel. >> hi. i love your series. >> thank you. what's your question? >> i read somewhere that john tyler played the violin. and did any of his wives play any musical instrument? >> thank you. do we know? >> i haven't the faintest clue. he certainly -- john tyler certainly played the violin and if you go to sherwood forest you can see the violin. >> and julia played the guitar. >> speaking of music, and image

making, it's said that she was the one who had the idea of hail to the chief being played whenever the president entered a room. >> may have been mrs. polk. >> no evidence. all right. and she was obviously from the photograph of her, just rather fashion conscious and wore beautiful outfits. did she become a trend setter for women at the time? >> i don't know. >> had it become the point do we know where women were beginning to watch what the first lady wore and imitate these things? >> i think this gets into the development of mass communication of the period and really what you're able to do in terms of emulating dress. that while engravings are certainly appearing in more and more newspapers, you're still relying mainly on the writtenen word in order to get across the impression of any kind of clothing. so in a particular way you

might be able to set a trend if she's railing -- wearing a veil or something like, that but for the most part it's not until much late when are there are many more images that are able to show up in a more sophisticated, technologically speaking, american press that you're able to get to the point where you have trends that can be identified in order to move on. >> julia tyler was also very political and interested in her husband's political career and we move on to the influence part of her role as first lady. eight short months she was in this role. she was very much involved in a major policy issue that was talked about or revensed already and that's the annexation of texas. we return now to sherwood forest where the staff of the president's grandson talks about julia's lobbying for this policy. let's listen. >> she lobbied politically, phenomenally, oh, my dear, for her husband. she had parties at the white house to lobby. tyler was immensely dedicated to the concept of the

annexation of texas to the union. and during that period she was able to sway calhoun, a kinsman of my mother's, from south carolina, and she was able to sway calhoun to vote for the annexation of texas and she worked on henry clay but i don't know whether she was really successful or not. but she took henry clay out to din around this is a woman -- dinner and this is a woman without a chaperon, a president's wife, alone, having dinner with henry clay and she didn't mind at all. and she wrote her mother a letter which i think is priceless. she says, mother, mr. clay was a little insulting. when i told him that my husband wanted him to vote for the annexation of texas, he said to me, i am right, texas should not be an exed to the union. and -- should not be annexed to the union and, mrs. tyler, i

want you to know that i would rather be right than be president and i replied, my dear sir, my husband is both. i truly think that the reply is almost better than the statement from clay which we hear so frequently. >> how significant was julia tyler's role in the ultimate decision to annex texas? >> well, you know, she's keeping tabs of where people stand because she's going to congress, she's listening to debates. she's trying to twist the arms. i don't think she's that important to it. she's representing her husband's interests, certainly. she supports that, but whether or not she has influence over any particular congressman, i'm not so sure about that. >> do you have an opinion about this? >> she certainly believes she has a lot of influence. i'm with dr. medford. there were much more complicated balls in the political era over the texas

annexation era, especially in those months after the election, people know that james polk is going to be the next president. the treaty to annex texas had already been defeated by the >> the treaty to annex the had been defeated by senate. they had to come up to a new -- not terribly constitutional i trying to accomplish this if they're going to accomplish it at all. so they have to go through the nations of the joint resolutions set for december of 1844. ut that involves much broader political questions in terms of where people are in this realignment in america that's going on at the time. here's -- the whigs are breaking down. the republicans have long broken down. the anti-jacksonians. he firmly believes she's

responsible. john tyler believes she's 1, onsible when on march 1845, he signs the joint that annexes texas, e gives her the gold pen and she wore it around her neck and wore it as a trophy. >> from greenville, california. >> hello. >> you're on. welcome. >> my question is john tyler's second wife julia. years he left the presidency at the time the civil war began, he was trying to stop virginia from seceding. he was unsuccessful. later he supported the says virginia.vement in he was considered a traitor but he died in 1862. did his wife julia try to redeem in good name after he died the years following the civil

war? going let that story unfold in the next 15 to 20 minutes. thank you for asking the question. that's where we're going in 15, 20 minutes. ing role of the first lady. that dolly madison -- bringing her name up again -- the part of parlor politics. is this is first instance of a lady getting more involved in an issue? >> talking about a main matter it's tough to cy, find another first lady who's a kind of engaged in effort whether that level of successful or is meaningful or not. he's being out there actively supporting her husband's position on annexation. he's talking to everybody she can about it. she's writing a great deal about it.

of the social all events at the white house in that piece ofence legislation. if we're talking about a first matter ng involve in a of national public policy and so, i involved explicitly think that you can peg that to julia tyler. here's a question about first ladies. tyler, for those who lady t watched it, first of the united states, that's a secret service thing, believed had a lot of influence and rightly so. based on the first ladies seen they all do you think felt this way? spouses of women as the president husbands? >> not so sure they all wanted to be. she's perhaps the first that wants to get involve in that way. are ther women, i think, willing to simply play the traditional role.

you have you know, may be saying all kinds of things to their husbands. making it public. we don't know what they're saying. terms of their influence outside of the house hold, it's to clear they even care serve in that capacity. most of them. >> excuse me. next is a question from linda, spiro, oklahoma. >> it's spiro. >> welcome. >> good evening. >> i wanted to know, how does it ffect his relationship with julia and their marriage with leticia.rn from how did their relationship -- thank you for taking my calls. >> thanks. that earlier. ut did the criticism of the daughters affect their marriage? that's the question. evidence.ere's no

the fact that the daughters came around relatively soon except leticia, they became a very big, close knit family, all gathered there for the most part sherwood forest. the civil war does a lot of that bringing them close together the members of the family that are casting all of parts like her son, robert .ho lives in philadelphia they have to come back to philadelphia. they see julia not necessarily as a step mother. refer to her some refer sister.as a come to love inly her and ppreciate accept her in the family as such. party.wn out of the he was a man without -- a president without a party when

the next election came around in 1844. no chance of them being nominated. especially since he alienated party as well. him.ne was there to support did they mark the leaving the white house. > champagne, of course, and parties. julia tyler at the extravagant best. start off with a party with 3,000 people. wo weeks later they have a party to celebrate james knox annexation of texas and james tyler saying you can o longer say i'm a man without a party. >> they return to sherwood forest. >> hi, there.

along with my first lady flash cards. had a question with fashion. prevalent in s so the earlier first lady, the was that harrison, is that nly women and personal preference. would wer taylor, when regard as a moderate necktie? thank you. > the modern necktie, you're getting well into the 19th century before you see that. presidents and not to shock my historian friends by going into this subject. that that develops over time is really interesting s after 820s and 1830

james monroe leaves the white house. of the folks that are holding on to the 18th century way of dressing so much more to see modern dress progressively after. women side of the fashion, we saw rachael jackson bonnet as we ad did with anna harrison. was that city versus country, regional? was it times changing or how did that work? >> that might have something to do with it. see with julia tyler, something different. you can see the beads in her hair. feathers in her hair from time to time. so she dresses very differently. it's probably more cosmopolitan with some of the first ladies urban influence and age too. i think age has something to do with it. anna harrison, mid to late 60s, julia tyler, 24 years old into the job. so brought a little sensibility

with her. 1845 and washington in returned to their home in the virginia tide water area in sherwood forest. it get its name? >> it got its name because of the -- one of john tyler's breaks with the whigs, robin referred to as hood. so she called it that too. she gave uniforms to the enslaved men who ran the river boat. as he had bows and arrows part of the -- sown on the collar as a part of the uniforms. sherwood forest and learn what the tylers' life was like after the white house.

ohn tyler was born at greenway and he purchased this house at the end of his presidential term. he came down here once before he retired from the presidency. yuliya gardner, married. she said the hand of god and nature have been kind to my forest, but i can improve upon it. she did. she had it around the ceilings, he moldings imported from italy. she had the mantlepieces brought in from italy. -- knocker on the front door you have to look hard to see it. it has sherwood forest on it. it's been meticulously polished through the years and that was ne of the contributions to the house. julia and her mother are very, close. exceedingly fortunate to have many letters between julia

and her mother. room is one room wide because you want the breezes to go from the north to the south and from the south to the north. so they would sit in the hall quite frequently. the open doorway opened to the president. she would sit there and the president would read the and throw oint the floor. in the gray room is a table and which we are told ohn tyler served julia tyler breakfast in her bedroom after he had been around the house. after the horseback ride, he and have o the table breakfast with his wife. mother writes her and says i understand from other that you sleep until 9:00 in in the morning and that the breakfast rings you

in bed. advantage not take to the gentleman who wrotes if on you. she writes about what she's doing. he records almost every occurrence of furniture in the house. alexandrars david and who were students at prince ton instance of mrs. gardiner, the buying units. they ordered from a store. hen it comes, she's distressed because the edges of it cover at the bottom the edge of the the window -- facing. her mother writes her back and don't be so picky on minutia. she did love to entertain. record of a ball she had in honor of sister margaret

who came here frequently and the portrait here is a portrait of julia and margaret. she was 2 years younger than margaret. and this portrait was painted obviously to represent gardner's because you can see the water in the background. they were very, very young when portrait was done. anyway, the ball that she had started at 9:00. the she said they danced virginia rail and the waltz ntil the sun rose and the finest champagne flowed unceasingly among one thing that julia did here to for entertainment is they allowed the house servants' children to play continuously with the children of the big house. the letters julia tyler speaks with theildren playing children in the yard. and she speaks of their dancing children in the yard. now supervision of the house

many -- and there were there were a total of almost 90 number a vacillating between 61 and 92 on the plantation. o the house servants are -- i think there were 13 house servants here. they were totally in their upervision as well as the medical care of the other students in the plantation. they were happy in this house hold. she loved it. he refers to the melody of his voice. she always refers to his intelligence. a wonderful time here. newlyweds thense commenced raising that large family that we talked about, the seven children that were born to tylers before he died in 1862. is that when he passed. 1862. died in >> a question. tyler refers to the slavery ssue which we've come back to throughout the program. and the country itself is

civil war.ward the what was john tyler's post white house role in that momentous of time? an ell, in 1861, there was attempt to stay secession and instrumentals very in that particular -- that last-ditch effort to do that. there was a peace conference held in washington. and he was very much -- in 1861.ary of he was very much a part of that. decided that failed, he to back the confederacy, to back secession. died, he had been elected to the confederate congress. he was very much a secessionist. waswhen he died, his coffin covered with the confederate flag. union, did th, the a acknowledge his having past. >> a former president of the

elected to s gets the confederate congress. put that in perspective. it's extraordinary, john tyler, the previous caller to stem he tried secession. not sure how much his heart was washington peace conference that went to the old illard hotel after there was a meeting in the middle of the onference with abraham lincoln in which abraham lincoln would halt of off of the slavery. he is all in when it comes to the -- when it comes to secession. likening the secession to 1776. finally inia has recovered all of the sovereignty the it had yielded to federal government. in 17 -- in the constitution. so they're back in the state in order to be able to independence.

then virginia for a brief period a sovereign state. bringing umental in virginia full boar into the confederacy. things is interesting at that time he's here in trying to ostensibly ward off civil war, his grand aughter, leticia, is in montgomery of alabama dedicating he new capitol of the confederacy raising the stars and bars over that building. wrote to her she mother about the civil war. he wrote the southerners are completely worn up to it and ill not be tampered with any longer. a thing should occur, it would be different for the north. impact the civil war julia's wife especially after john died. so what happened to her after

john die? sleeves and she goes to staten island to live with her mother and she spends the entire think she actually goes to bermuda for -- >> yes. yes. so she's not at sherwood forest. nd, of course, she's impacted financially by the war because she loses her enslaved laborers, first of all. and she doesn't reallye she to try to get it to some kind of order, but she again, i ive there don't believe. she spends the remaining years, i believe, in richmond. she has rented a home there and she spends a lot of time in richmond. county.in the >> and what is the public perception of her? post-war? >> well, in the south, quite good. in the north, not so good. referred to as in

the outh as ex-president-ress and something upon.nsists john tyler's memory is still revered in the south after the who's ableg somebody to legitimize the cause of the confederacy. gardner tyler certainly is contributing to kind of this lost cause notion that she refers to cause. holy southern he never -- there's no rehabilitation of her husband because in the south she doesn't fully e need to be rehabilitated except for getting her pension. she needs that. homes, sherwood forest, and a summer home near hampton, virginia. actually which -- which goes through the same kind of damage that sherwood forest goes through. has to sell that property in order just to maintain sherwood forest which, again, is mostly family to live in. timehe spends a lot of the

for her pension which 1881 when t get until she's awarded $1200 per year. have been first lady. but your husband became a traitor to the united states. no reason why we should never honor that. >> on the phone is christopher lahey. an associate professor of history in new york. ith his spouse is the co-ed tore of the julia gardner tyler papers. lahey, how voluminous are her paper, and hat is the broad scope of what we can learn from this woman and the white house from them? very papers are voluminous. two major collections. one at the sterling library at university, and the other major collection at the college of william & mary. can learn pretty much everything about her life from

he time that shemarries john tyler in 1844 until just about in 1889.that she dies rich source that cover every aspect of her and lives. dren's >> we've been trying to paint a portrait of her. what would you like to add to your work with her papers? listry remembers her for her in olity and her short time the white house. she had another life when her 1862.nd passed away in her papers revealed her to be a strong woman, a practical woman. a very serious, self-possessed, adaptable.d, she could be devoted to her family. she can be tenacious about her

particularly her children if she felt her interests are being threatened. the at's happening with papers. is there an interest beyond your own scholarship? to us about the historical interest in julia tyler. problem with julia's papers is that she has penmanship that only a mother could love. fortunately, my wife is very adept at reading and going through the work -- going papers.the they're very difficult to read, why is part of the reason scholars have not really exploited them for the potential that they hold. our work, hopefully, will bring more of her -- her to life, eriences particularly in the postpresidential years and particularly the years after her husband passed away in 1862. >> how did you get interest? did my dissertation on john tyler's prepresidential career. am currently at work on a

manuscript, a book manuscript on tyler and it seemed a natural fit, a natural progression from there. the julia gardner tyler papers, i realized i wasn't good at reading them penmanship.the and my wife very courageously, i dove into them and is transcribing them for me so i writing work on the in. end. >> if someone is interested in the ing more, are any of papers published on-line that they can read the papers for themselves? i think there are some on-line. difficult toe very read. she has a tendency to write. she would write going left-to-right and would turn the left-to-rightld go upside down. it's difficult to read these. exactly if they there are any on-line how easy researcher. or a >> thank you for telling us about your scholarship and we

learning more about this period of american history through the writings of julia tyler. you.k >> thank you very much. >> a few more minutes. i want to get a couple of calls in. one is the call from bill in fishers, indiana. hi, bill. >> caller: enjoying your show and your two guests very much. religious person? and i was wondering about her onversion to catholicism and how that influenced her later life. thank you. >> do you know? i think i'll leave julia to talk about it? religious? >> not really, she does join the life.lic church later in and i'm not sure why she actually does that. gains haps the church more by that than she does. there's always been that tension between protestants and even ics in this country, though we don't have an official

most people think of america as being a protestant place. you did have aat former first lady joining the such a publich in way, i think, sort of elevated he status of catholicism a little bit. >> when in her life did you do this? >> this was, i think, i know it in life, much later, a few years before she died, i believe. is not ohn tyler especially religious guy, even sort of by the standards of the day. strong was a very episcopalian, the first wife. of her ed the strength faith in her. ut john tyler was more of a jeffersonian epicurean i think than anything else. watching in san francisco. you're on now, fred. >> yes, hi, thank you. three most powerful men in washington at the time were, of

and e, clay, webster, calhoun. and i was wondering if there -- any -- if even leticia but julia more mportantly, what was her attitude towards those three men? >> thank you. beene certainly would have very comfortable with calhoun. not so much clay. tyler had supported clay at one point. as tyler became more eparated from the whig party, then she would have gone in that direction as well. sure.r -- i'm not so but certainly calhoun would have been the person that she would have been closest to in terms of politically. > webster had stuck in the cabinet longer than any of the original members of the harrison cabinet. you're right. comes down to where really were they in terms of john

tyler's politics asking exactly she felt about it. >> margaret watching in ft. river, new jersey. you're on the air. i'm enjoying this very much. i was wonder what tyler died from. he was elected junior confederate e to a congress. he died a few minutes after idnight in 1862 and he was 71 years old. also, how old was he when he fathered his last child. know theese things you answer to? >> he was 71. he was never sworn in as a confederate congress. it was just about to be. richmond for that session. since it was early in '62. -- he from what we know, he ad caught a cold and died at that age. he last trial that they had, i

think that he was 68. >> because she was 2 years old. 2 years old when he died. texas.t in austin, a sex tan after your history lesson in your state's annexation. your question for us? >> caller: my question is was he controversy over the annexation of texas about slavery or are there any other about the ons location and geography of texas being so close to mexico. thank you so much. it was all about slavery in the 1840s and the 1850s. can't really separate the whole struggle over the slavery into the west. it's about texas, its's about later on. it's slavery front and center. now, we have about three, four minutes left. as we close out our discussion here. learned that julia tyler as a very young woman was very adept

creating an and image for herself. gary robertson asked, how did united states view her death or had she become largely forgotten by then? public call on the relations skills to ensure her legacy? >> not really by the end of her life. died in 1889. and obviously there are a lot of things going on in the country then. so she had been largely focusing family, focusing on her -- focusing on maybe a legacy and that sense in maintaining what the family on to, something like sherwood forest so they could pass that on. broader kindof the of working on that image later n in her life, so much of her energy was devoted to -- was devoted to the pension fight. things thatto other i think was far from her mind by then. >> as we close out here, we about a few thingings that she did to advance the role

country. lady in this how should we remember her historically? as the vivacious person she was. quite a bit ambitious. story conveys the possibilities for first ladies. her ll of them pursued path, but she was able to do significant.t were >> what did you say? what's her legacy? still out. is one of the great things about this particular series is it's re-evaluate what we mean by the first lady, the institution of the first lady as of the presidency itself. so you can see, again, the possibilities of a woman in that position. can n the other hand, you also see the installations, erhaps with leticia's, by the women we talked about in this program. by the end of the series, we can get back together again and talk about, well, what with have we learned that is a first lady and

tyler's legacy is really is. >> what should we think about tyler's legacy? >> glad you got to that question. > you know, i cannot change my opinion of him. he's a person who turned his back on his own party, okay? -- that's one thing. supported a cause that actually was creating serious for a whole race of people. he was more than willing to if etuate slavery forever, possible. and so i -- i can't separate his that. from >> and next week, we will learn about the life of his successor the white house, james k. polk and we look forward to you when wevolved with that do that. at this y thank you point to your two guests.

to howard university here in where she d.c. chairs the department and taylor stuart. thank you to both of you. this series is produced in cooperation of the white house and we al association thank them for their help. thanks for being with us.

all this month, we're showing of season entations one. each weeknight at 9:00 p.m. programs on span, every first lady from martha washington to ida mckinley. e're offering the special edition of the book, "first ladies of the united states of america" presenting the of each and portrait first lady, comments from noted historians and thoughts from the role of a on first ladies throughout history. now available for the discounted of $12.95 plus shipping at c-span.organize/products. the website has more about first lady, including a special white , "welcome to the house" produced by our partner, the white house historical association. in the icles life executive mansion during the tenure of each of the first ladies. more at c-span.organize/first ladies.

>> c-span. e bring public affairs events from washington directly to you putting you in the room at white sional hearings, house events, briefings, and onferences and offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house all a public private industry where c-span created by the cable tv industry 34 years ago by the local cable or satellite provider. hd. ou can watch this in >> now, journalists suggest how including blogs and twitter changed the way they cover the u.s. supreme court. include nbc chief justice correspondent pete illiams, "new york times" supreme court correspondent, tony morrow.nd hosted by the association in journalism in mass this is an hour and 25 minutes.

>> the supreme court as we know is a staid institution, not transparency and the adaptability to change, yet, e're living in an age of communications revolution. just think about what it was like 40 years ago with wall, no s on the internet, no twitter, no facebook. we watch the news? once in the evening. >> and you still should, by god. >> a little commercial message, yes. this estion is how is affected the court, or has it affected the court? and that's what we're going to today.bout how has this affected the court of the the job journalist in covering the u.s. supreme court.

questions that arise from this topic. justices more transparent in the digital age than they were before? have they come out and become public because of the digital age? way as an t in some institution adapting to the new media environment? in some ways, we see that. a website.e they didn't have a website 20 years ago. seeing the justices erhaps on the cusp of using a social media, justice briar said he started a twitter account at one time. this something that we're going to see more of in the future? of covering terms the court. ecause we have the internet, for example, is the job of covering the court easier today? more information about the court? or are the justices providing information because of the internet is the task of

information by reporters easier today. more or is perhaps difficult today because there's such a plethora of information about the court that you have to all of that information to get to what is reliable, what is real. s it more difficult because of the expectations that are placed on journalists to get would be n that readily available in some other institution but is not available at the court. and yet, perhaps, editors, producers, or the public expect be kind of information to provided. is it more difficult because the adapting in the way that other institutions do reduced the perhaps court's newsworthiness if you're social media or new media or are you then less newsworthy? things are about the same as they were. and there hasn't been a dramatic change. i want to hear from our journalists here. and we have several journalists

to help us through this topic. and i wanted to introduce them. and i'll introduce them starting with robert barnes on my left.ate he covers the supreme court for "the washington post" and has since 2006 and he's been a reporter and editor at "the years.gton post" for 26 ext is adam liptac who covers the supreme court for "the new york times" and has done so since 2008. prior to that, he was in the department at the times and a reporter at the times. ete williams, has covered the court and the justice department for nbc news for the past 20 that, he was or to assistant secretary defense in bush a e h.w. administrati administration. and tony morrow at the end who the nationalrt for law journal. prior to that, he was a reporter for legal times, a reporter for "usa today." he's been on the court beat since 1979.

introduce i want to terry towner who is in the middle of all of these reporters. she's an e because -- academic from oakland university nd studies things that are quite relevant to the particular panel. one is the supreme court and the press. and the other is the role of the new media. so we'll start with professor owner and then after she finishes her presentation, then tony go down the line from on. and then after they make their resentations, we will open it up for questions from the audience. so, tara? thank you, richard, thank you for inviting me. 'm terry towner from oakland university located in rochester, michigan. i specialize in american medium politics. this is one of the reasons i'm here. particularly my research is to toe focus on the role of

ocial media and campaigns and elections with the specific focus on the past two presidenti presidential elections dubbed the web 2.0 elections or the elections. why we're here today, i've examined how journalists and frame the media coverage of the court, particularly guarding affirmative action cases that before the high court. more recently, i've examined how the media framed different types of court coverage looking at comparing contrasting different types of coverage in the main stream press, as minority well as on-line media. so one of the things we're here talk about is how is social media being used by the public. we'res richard is noting, here because this is about a dramatic change in how people re consuming news and information. we're no longer reading that and hard copy to go to work.

waiting for the 5:00 notes even though some of us are. surveys show 72% of on-line adults are using social facebook, twitter, youtube, linkedin, readit, you name it. the public is using social media to get news. and in 2008, 2% of people said they were using social media to obtain news. today that's up to 20%. increasing.ill an important point that i want that e sheer, though, is social media, yes, is important. it's an interactive technology. is soon a fad that going to fade in the early this many people told me is not a fad. i do not agree with that. social media has now permeated lives. it's become a main tool for gathering information and every day. it's important to highlight here

not ll that consumers have given up other means of obtaining news. television is still king. sure pete will be happy to hear that. he will not be out of a job any time soon. receive top way to news. social medias are supplements. a path to news. we've seen how social media has ransformed politics, the court system. the candidates are on-line, campaigning, on facebook. see the rise of journalists, the press moving to on-line ormats, hiring journalist bloggers and we see journalists who are holding on-line chats on-line.umers so a big question here and these veteran journalists will also this today as well. s how is social media changing the newsroom, how can it change the newsroom. e see journalists can fully interact and connect with readers, particularly on facebook, perhaps facilitating a

conversation, something you can't do on television. do with an u can't editorial. we also see particularly on we see instant reporting, live tweeting. gone are the days of journalists the back of a courtroom writing down notes on later writing the 1,000-word article which appears it next day. longer that happens. i think you said you wrote an rticle in two hours, it was published. we want instantaneous news. get it first and get it out right. twitter allows journalists to do this -- get information about out there faster. social media can tip off news, lead them to stories. stories are oftentimes broken by citizens now today. and using social media ournalists can also target specific audiences. find new audiences, and a very

mportant one -- social media may be a way to inform young eople about how our judicial system works. the impact of social media and what is it?ge, social media of coverage of trials have increased as the networks of social and the media's use of social media has increased. cameras, photography, oftentimes, not allowed in courtrooms. are now judges permitting lap tops, smart allowing a reporter and journalists to tweet live. reporting as well as live blogging is becoming a norm in courtrooms. it's becoming expected. video een smart phone being uploaded right from the courtroom, right from the courtroom steps. o we have to talk about the pros and the cons as well, a couple of pros. he news media has an important influence in how the public perceives and understands the

judicial system. the way we access nformation about the proceedings as it happens in the courtroom. this is critical because in maintain public confidence and trust, the court has to engage with the public. you justieve, richard, wrote an article about how public confidence in the court decline.e social media may be a way to pen the court, pull back the curtain to the public, getting out information about what's courtroom.n the with that said, the judicial longer has to rely on journalists and reporters anymore. now they can report the news and out press releases themselves using social media. it allows people to have access information. so we have to take the bad with the good, don't we? the opening, pulling back that curtain can have a negative perceptions as well as a positive one. once it's tweeted it's out there

forever. media, ge of social reporters are pressured to quickly get out stories and that main contain errors. ay contain misinterpretations and accurate information is likely a virus that spreads in blog-osphere. we've seen many examples of this. inaccurate reporting coming from the supreme court decision on the health care law, fox news, cnn, both reported in minutes out that decision came the court had struck down the individual mandate. the role of social media was noticeable. reports came ous out, it was tweeted, retweeted, until it was corrected. addition, the result is that news reports are getting shorter than ever before. we're talking about 140 characters on twitter. analysis.very short this means court coverage could of the in depth analysis the interpretations in the implications and views of both

sides. to hope that the consumer will click on that full adam latek's ad whole column. e see untrained citizen journalists doing a lot of reporting, unfitered, unchecked, no editor. on social media, we see a demand demands increasing and a for core information increasing. journalists are pressured to stories each e day. one of the biggest questions i hink for academics as well as consumers is what is this doing to the quality of court coverage? better?etting or is that quality declining? lot of previous scholars have analyzed different types of media coverage and they're and quantity.lity research has examined on-line only newspapers and news social as blogs and media, which is something that's not examined yet because it's so

new. sources have infinite space to report about the court, original pace for reporting, multimedia story diverse viewpoints, topics that are perhaps ignored stream.main many social outlets are outside of that corporate control different re perspectives being available to onsumers and in fact a lot of on-line newspapers are nonprofit and they're not affiliated with an overall corporation. shows that news -- on-line news, blogs, news -- and on-line newspapers, they offer a greater diversity of topics. they rely on unofficial sources. perhaps more opinion in their reporting. and in recent research that i i was examining main stream and on-line only newspapers of the affirmative case, ritchie versus disefano. examining on-line only newspapers and i found that they

balance between different types of frames than more main stream news. a frame? >> a particular frame -- if you anti- --o or >> point of view. >> point of view, thank you. see on-line-only they present different frames or different story telling. analysisems that in my that on-line only -- it seems to of this of xture these pro and anti-frames. and the reason for this could be on-line sources, they don't traditional journalistic norms and routines. they don't have an editor or any other type of filter allowing them to bring in different frames or different types of telling. perhaps they can draw on unofficial sources, insert more and be an advocate. this is one of the reasons we may be seeing this.

suggests that on-line news may be good, offering a viewpoints.f this could be considered good for democracy. we have to trust the public to expose themselves. diversity of viewpoints. if the public only reads one source or exposes themselves to source, this could be bad. so the future of this -- perhaps we would see john oberts on twitter, breyer on twitter, which i think john roberts upon twitter would be fabulous, very funny. but i'm going to move to those get to renches here to where do we go from here and where do we go with the of social media in the court system. >> thank you very much. out a lot of tant litzing items to react to.

will try to do that and ways et into some of the in which the supreme court has to completely resistant the -- to this -- the modern media. it's not an institution that moves -- moves quickly. i'm wearing a tie today that i bought at the supreme shop -- i never use this as a prop, honestly. tortoises on it. tortoises are a sort of a mascot at the supreme court, ymbolizing a slow and steady pace of the law and that goes progress towards transparency and access as well. as someone who covered the court for 33 years, i can certainly the coverage is completely different now. i won't tell you too many back

stories.y but it used to be if i had an interesting tidbit about the put it in my back pocket and report on it. around to it. today if i get a good item, someone else has it and is tweeting about it. that we hardly ever saw the justices off of the bench. mainly the case. with gh now we have lunch the chief justice once a year, better than under rehnquist when we had lunch every two years. stand of us. could it's a beat where there was and collegiality, of but not a lot of scoops. momentum cause of the and the intensity of new media, eating each ly other's lunches with exclusives,

and small. the competition is good and the but new ges brought media platforms are brought to the good. are fewer there reporters covering the supreme beat.in terms of a the overall output to the public is increased. that's great. this expanded universe, there is room for both 140-character and the analysis that my just gues here are terrific at. and i hope and i think that that of analysis, that kind of coverage will always be needed. even though you can find a supreme court ruling on-line uickly doesn't mean that every member of the public is going to read it and i think there will journalists to interpret. but i wanted to spend a few ways s talking about the in which the supreme court is

anti-deluveann the to access.t comes fred graham used to say that cia the vatican and the were less interested in press the court.than now the cia has a youtube channel and the pope tweets. court.t yet the supreme the biggest symbol of this the prohibition of any broadcast coverage of the proceedings. more into that later. it's crazy that the court has recognized the premiere media of the 20th century as we are well into the 21st. i'd also say there is a not only in broadcast coverage but we cannot have any electronics in the courtroom. like some of the other courtrooms like you were describing, we cannot do

the court.om within very s -- the court is intransigent about that. not sure we'll see much change. i'll mention the website. the court is proud in the website and the many ways it's friendly. you have to know the lingo of the court and how it operates to to look. where but if you look at other supreme world, you gethe much more. anada's high court offers curriculum to elementary schoolteachers and other teachers. documentarys a mini about the high court about its ebsite and south africa's constitutional court gives you a virtual tour which would supreme the heck out of court police if that was happening in our supreme court. -- recusals for reasons that are completely justices never or almost never explain why

they're stepping aside in a case. we have to triangle late and on the report of the disclosures, stock ownership or what we can know and learn family or other connections. off the bench activities. more, justices are stepping out and talking to law schools. when they have a book to sell, accessful. it's hit or miss and neither the announce justices where they'll make appearances. andrew cohen of cbs news media ed there should be pool trailing the justices when they speak, as there is for the president. it's admirable. but there are nine justices and ne president, it might be logistically difficult. court are such independent actors, all nine, that i don't think they would anything like that.

they still set their own rules many instances, prohibiting a broadcast coverage their hostsarks and tend to give in because they'd rather have a supreme court on their campus than them.he cameras covering opinion announcements. you were talking just now about problem last term with the getting the affordable care act cases wrong. that wouldn't have happened if all been able to listen live outside of the courtroom announcement or the opinion by chief justice roberts. and more than that, these a terrific s are summary of their decisions, plainer language than in written decisionings but for technical reasons that could be these brief slices of history are not available until long after the term is over.

can't get them at all. inally, i'll just mention, protests. at the supreme court, a court told me thatr once the first amendment ends where the marble begins at the supreme court. you can protest on the steps of the capitol, but not on the court.of the supreme a courageous federal judge recently struck down a law demonstrations on court grounds, but the court a ban using a different statute that is not yet struck down. theory behind this believe it or not is that the court does an want to be seen as institution that can be swayed by protests. so they'll prohibit the protests in the first place. it's a pretty bizarre justification in my view and t's very odd that the court is so protective of the first amendment in so many other to it inbut is hostile its front yard. talk more about it later but i

anted to make those preliminaries points. > well, i'll give you a little example of what terry was talking about of courts becoming activists. it's a t a court, spokesman for the u.s. boston sentffice in out a tweet saying there had been an indictment against two boston bombing suspect's former friends, the ones that got the lapouse and top and the backpack and threw the backpack away. to wait to get the indictment to see what it said. courts have the capacity to have public information people much less tweet. have to get the chief justice's position. cumbersome. i don't think courts will be a resource. don't think of it in supreme court coverage. you think of it in something like there's a train derailment. you have all of the eyes and ears out there that are tweeting

and their pictures own views and you can get a of what e view happened. not so in the supreme court. if you want to know what happened, you have to be there, get the argument, decision. it's not like social media is 1,000 voices bloom when there's a supreme court decision, there are nine voices. justice and just one opinion. o social media as a source of news isn't really for something who cover the supreme court. a reporter for a wire service or a radio station covering the court on decision 43 years ago to talk by contrast, you would be the you would edge, provide the first word to the outside world. more than likely, you'd find sitting not in the courtroom but below it on a tiny cubicle on the first floor under the justices. one of your confederates would be up in the courtroom near the bench. when the decision wasan