york city that they can tune to them and leave us alone. >> i will let you go there. thanks for your comments. a reminder that you can see the debate again on c-span2 with a preview at midnight, and more conversation coming up on c-span and c-span radio tomorrow morning. on washington journal, a preview of the president's 2 -- dave was to her, and with the cato institute, a report on the rising costs of social security disability insurance, and looking at the future of the lockheed martin lightning two strike fighter program, and then a senior contributor for defense on his article on what the nsa were charged probably looks like, all of that tomorrow morning beginning at 7:00 a.m. on c-span and c-span radio, and tomorrow, a two -- they bus to her, talking about college costs syracuse, newin york, that will be live on c- hall is backe town

tomorrow night. we start at 7:00 30 eastern, and education will be the education will be the focus. we hope you join us tomorrow night for c-span townhall. >> season two of first ladies begins monday, september 9 with a look at the life of edith roosevelt. all this month, we show you encore presentations of season one. every weeknight at 9:00 p.m. eastern, tonight it is lucretia garfield. ♪ >> it's only in recent years that a lot of scholarship has focused on the fact that their marriage was in its early phases. >> i think in the early years, james found her a bit distant

and cold. as the years went by, she had a tremendous influence on him. >> they spent a lot of time on their children. they thought that education was an emancipating factor. >> mrs. garfield adored her time at the exhibition, but she was specifically interested in the latest scientific technologies of the day. >> after james garfield's death, citizens raised hundreds of thousands of dollars that were turned over to lucretia garfield. in today's dollars, it would equate to somewhere around $8 million. >> her character was extremely strong. she had a rectitude that was invulnerable. host: lucretia garfield was born in ohio in 1832. her life spans antebellum america to the progressive era of the early 20th century. a supporter of women's rights and deeply interested in

partisan politics, she and president james garfield entered the white house on march 4, 1881 after a very close election. however, what plans she had as first lady were soon cut short by an assassin's bullet. good evening, and welcome to "first ladies: influence and image." after the assassination, the next person to come into the white house, chester arthur, did not have a first lady. to help us understand, we have carl anthony. he is the author of "america's first families." the circumstances of james garfield's election helped to seal the president's fate. tell us the story of where the party politics were at the time. guest: so many of the large issues that had continued in post-civil war era were really in large mode put to rest.

the transcontinental railroad by this time had been completed, the troops had been removed from the south during reconstruction. a lot of focus was basically on power and money, and that struggle within the republican party for who would control the party, which meant who would control the positions that were appointed positions that were at the discretion of people at power. it ended up being a power struggle in the party between an ohio-based party, which is james garfield's party, and rutherford hayes was not only from the same part of ohio but the same kind of thinking, and what were called the stalwarts, which were new york-based. you see certain states really emerge throughout history

holding onto power within a particular party. in new york, that was headed by a man who became a united states senator. this was the struggle. you see then, of course, the person who ends up shooting president garfield, charles guiteau, probably screaming with the gun in his hand, "i am a stalwart. now arthur is president." host: garfield himself was a compromise candidate after many ballots at a republican convention. when they came to the white house, were they accepted? guest: they were largely accepted. this is where lucretia played a vital role. a lot of it was a matter of cobbling together a cabinet where everybody would be happy,

that the new york wing would be happy, that garfield now as leader of the party in the country would be satisfied. you had lucretia garfield playing a little bit of an espionage role in the postelection, pre-inauguration where she goes to new york under the alias of mrs. greenfield, and is really there to deal with this guy she doesn't like, roscoe conkling, and negotiating with members of the cabinet of who would be appointed and who wouldn't. host: the actual vote was very close. lucretia garfield after winning says this -- "it is a terrible responsibility to come to him and me." did she want to become first lady? guest: she did not want to become first lady for herself. she very strongly believed in

her husband. they had really been through everything. they lost two children. they had marital problems. by the time he had run in 1880, they are very clear and very square on the same page in terms of their values. they both shared a lot of intellectual and literary pursuits. that was a mutual passion which during the tough times kept them together, but she was, at the time she got the news that he won the nomination, she was scrubbing the floor. she did not want to pose for photographs. she was very reluctant. she did, and of course, the first images we start to see in paraphernalia during the campaign. she wrote a private letter to some friends and said, the truth is, i do not want to go to that place, but i really believe that

my husband is the right man to lead the country. host: we will be taking you to the garfield's home in ohio. it is available for you to visit, run by the national parks service. if you are ever in the state near cleveland, make a point of visiting it. we will show you as much as we can. there is what it looks like. that front porch became very famous because it was the first front porch campaign. how did the front porch campaign come about? guest: i do not know 100% of the details, except at the time where they lived, it was relatively rural. groups of people really just coming to hear the candidate speak. that is sort of the whole thing with these front porch campaigns. interestingly enough, most of them took place, all of them took place in the midwest. lincoln's in springfield, harding's and mckinley's in ohio just like garfield.

of course, for lucretia garfield, what was interesting was because it was technically the property of her private home, her being seen by the voters, the people coming in on horses and buggies to hear garfield speak didn't find anything at all unusual about the presence of his wife at what was a campaign rally because it was also her home. host: we are going to learn more about the front porch campaign in this video. [video clip] >> this is the site of the nation's very first front porch campaign. james garfield would come out here and give speeches to people who had gathered here from the front part of the property. lucretia's role was more concentrated on the inside. standing in the front hallway of the garfield home probably seems like a strange place to start talking about garfield's widely hailed front porch campaign of 1880.

in fact, this was the part of the house where lucretia garfield spent a lot of her time during the 1880 campaign. james a. garfield went to nominate someone else for president. he wasn't expecting to be a candidate. lucretia garfield had no expectation that over the next five months number between 17,000 and 20,000 people would show up at her home and her property in ohio. when these people started to show up, that many people obviously unexpected, uninvited, started to cause a lot of damage to the outside of the property. they were traipsing all over the property, yanking things out of the ground to take home souvenirs. lucretia garfield was very concerned about what was on the outside of the property, not happening inside the family home. she spent a lot of time in this front hallway, keeping an eye on

the front door, and she was the gatekeeper, making sure that no one she did not want in the house was able to get into the house. you see the front steps. james garfield's office was at the top of these steps. he would spend a lot of time in the office. at some point during the day, a lot of times he would come down the steps and go to the front door to stand out on the front porch, talk to people gathered out there, and eventually give speeches as part of his front porch campaign. i like to imagine lucretia following behind him and locking the door as he went outside because she was so adamant that people not get inside the home. they had a young family they were very concerned about. they also had just finished a major renovation of the house. lucretia had just gotten the house the way she wanted it did she did not want people coming in to cause the same kind of damage inside that she saw going on outside. we know that lucretia garfield was a very gracious host to people that did come into the home. she very often would greet them here in the front hallway and offer them what she called standing refreshment, which meant she was very gracious. she talked to them for a few moments with a cold glass of water or lemonade, but conspicuously no chair to sit in

because she did not want them to overstay their welcome. host: we have a phone line set aside for you to call in. we will get to call for a couple of minutes. you can also tweet us to use the hashtag #firstladies. here's a comment from our facebook page -- guest: really great question. we have a lot of bits of evidence that cumulatively show us that lucretia garfield was perhaps the first first lady to really have a strong conscientiousness about being part of a historical tradition of first ladies. in her diary, to my knowledge,

the only diary kept by a first lady, she records an incident where one of her guests comes in and tells her about the night of the fall of richmond and being with mary lincoln. she writes in her diary that these little sorts of stories are the kinds of things she begins to accumulate and feels that there are some ghosts of the house. we will talk more about her later life -- she has a sense of sorority with the first ladies who came after her. host: on twitter -- guest: she thought of it as her home. in fact, later on when a well was being built in the back -- i can't remember, there was another structure -- sheallytude

plans, and she was just incredibly interested in so much and taught herself. she would say things like, i have built a home on my own, i have done it all, and i know what is going on, and i can get the structure out back built quicker and less expensively than is being done right now. she later on changed what was essentially a farmhouse into a victorian mansion. again, that is in the years of her widowhood. she had another beautiful home standing in pasadena, california. host: which was very forward thinking. here is something that james garfield thought about her as they were political partners. he said, "she is unstampedable. there has not been one solitary

tell us a bit more about that unstampedable character. guest: you know, it did not come easy. she was one of those people who spent a lot of time thinking. she always tried to be highly rational in her opinions, when she formed them, and in her concepts of people and ideas and subjects, whatever it might be, current events, history. this was a little bit of a problem early on when they were courting and even in their marriage because a lot of people including her husband felt that she was not emotionally expressive. but when she had given something a lot of thought, and she was

clear about how she felt, then she would express herself. her letters, i might add, are beautiful. this is a real self-motivated woman who realized that education was going to be the key to not only her success but her happiness. host: one of the very first decisions she had to make was about temperance and whether or not she and the president would follow the no-alcohol policy set by the hayes. will you tell us about that decision she made, the garfields made, and how significant it was politically? host: it ended up, true to what she said, not having a significant impact politically. but the threat was made to her by a woman who came and said, you must continue the no-alcohol

policy of the hayeses. lucretia garfield said, thanks, but no thanks. i sort of feel that by my doing this one little thing, by not serving alcohol to my guests, it will take on enormous importance in the press and give it far more attention than it needs. she herself drank wine. then this woman threatens him, well, this is going to affect the republican party. mrs. garfield said politely, i don't think it really is. host: this decision and the pressure for it came around the arrival of the official portrait of lucy hayes. we talked about this picture in the last program. there was a big story about the money being raised to do this portrait.

guest: it was presented to the white house as a fait accompli. the white house wasn't going to deny it. nor did they think that it would be wise in terms of public relations to deny the portrait of their most immediate predecessor, the wife of their most immediate predecessor. the controversy as you know -- a percentage of money they were raising was being spent for the women's christian temperance union, other projects, so it had a slight taint of scandal. host: kathy robinson wants to know on twitter -- guest: there was very little time for lucretia garfield to

actually become popular in the sense of functioning as a first lady the way we think it. the inauguration was march 4. by the end of april, she has contracted malaria. by may, there is even a fear she might die in the white house. president garfield, just president for three months, writes of how he was unable to work with fear that this was going to be, that something would happen to his wife. it is only after he is shot in july that the press really begins to focus on lucretia garfield and she becomes, not just a national, but an international heroine for her behavior, calmness, and control as the president is attempting recuperation. host: the first call is robert watching us in chicago.

caller: good evening. i have one simple question. by the time garfield became president, his salary was $50,000. i was just wondering if mrs. garfield received the balance of the salary after he passed on. guest: yes, she did. she also received his pension as a former member of congress, and she received, as susan mentioned, that large amount of public funds which were raised. she also received a presidential widow's pension. she had quite a bit of income coming from several directions. host: next is a call from bill watching us in columbus, ohio.

caller: i grew up in ohio where the garfield estate is. i passed it all the time, and i remember there being a log cabin on the property where he grew up. is it still there? guest: that i do not know. host: have you visited the house? caller: surprisingly, i never did. and i live there. host: that happens to many of us. thanks for calling. sorry we couldn't answer your question. talking about her involvement in the selection of the cabinet, we said earlier that she was deeply involved and interested in partisan politics. very briefly, where did she develop that keen political sense and how did she use it to advise the president? guest: she started developing that once they moved to washington, dc when he was a

member of congress. they lost their first child, a girl, their last born, a little boy. they had a lot of tough times. during his service in the civil war, and when he came to washington, they were separated again. she was not going to put up with it. they decided to build a home in washington, and when she came to washington as a congressional wife, she began attending debates on capitol hill. she was there during the 1876 election dispute commission. her husband belonged to a literary society, but this was really when her political education began, during the congressional years. she also put room aside just for herself to paint and read in the

house they built in washington, but politics really became -- i wouldn't say it was her primary interest, but one of several primary interests. she was interested in everything. the issue of the cabinet really circles around the controversial appointments of the secretary of state, james blaine. mrs. garfield is really the advocate for him. in fact, blaine writes that the knowledge that mrs. garfield wants me in the cabinet is just as important to me as knowing that you, the president, want me in the cabinet. host: here's the quote exactly that says something about her influence, at least on the

president. guest: absolutely. i would also say partisanship and these splinter things within parties, she was not a policy person. she was not somebody who was looking at policy and saying, you should support this or not support that. she was looking at members of the cabinet who were supposed to be running the government, not from a point of partisan political loyalty. there's that saying, keep your friends close, your enemies closer. she was always looking at, how are these men going to potentially affect her husband's career? host: in the end, it seems they mixed the cabinet with half stalwarts and half the rest. guest: to a degree. by the time of garfield's assassination, there is a sense of remorse. this guy that shot him did it openly out of political partisanship. it was sort of horrifying to people. it also involved vice president

arthur, who was sort of representative of the wing that the assassin claimed to be associated with. host: we should be specific about this. the brief tenure of this presidency, 186 days in total. because of his lengthy decline -- we will tell that story later -- he was only functional for 121 days of that. this is a really brief time, not much time to establish opinions and in the public at large. david murdock is asking on twitter -- guest: absolutely. political in the sense -- we do not have a record of him coming to her with legislative decisions.

host: you mentioned earlier that civil service reform was becoming an important issue. people who saw the movie "lincoln" will see how patronage jobs were used to influence the president's policy. what was the bubbling controversy over patronage and what was the reform people wanted to employ? guest: you have this, with the garfield assassination and death, you have this man coming to the white house. everybody was like, talk about a man who benefited from political patronage. chester alan arthur was never elected to any political office. he was the collector of the port of new york. he had a high position in new york state during the civil war, but it was all political patronage. roscoe conkling, the kingmaker of the stalwarts in new york,

thinks, now the doors will open and we will get all the political funds. president arthur says, no, i'm going to change my stripes, and we are going to be honest. chester arthur is the man who initiates the first civil service reforms. host: we learned that charles guiteau was always described as a frustrated office seeker. it was also tied into his allegiance with the other faction of the gop. his example of coming to the office, to the white house, and looking for jobs. how does that process work in the 1880s? guest: it is extraordinary to think that not even 20 years after the assassination of president lincoln that there could be such lax security at the white house. as you and many viewers know, the way the white house was set up at the time, there was the ground floor where there were no

restored rooms, functioning as kitchens and places to keep china, and then there is the main floor. with the east room and green room and red room. above that, there are three hallways -- the hallway that is at the furthest west end, where the family rooms were, in the middle section, and the east, and where the presidential office is. members of the public who had some vague connection from a senator or congressman, even if they did not, would be able to go up the stairs, check in with the doorkeeper, and wait in this hallway with spittoons, filled with cigar smoke, and hope to

see the president's secretaries pressing their case, usually with letters of introduction, claiming how great and wonderful they were and how they deserved some kind of minor federal position. we're not talking about people coming in there to be cabinet members or postmaster of this or paymaster of that. this is the kind of stuff a president was having to deal with while he was in his office, and the private secretaries were trying to do with it. guiteau was one of them. he never got to press his case. he took it personally. host: clearly. the garfields brought to the white house a big and happy family. on our next visit to their home in ohio, we will learn more about the garfield family. [video clip] >> this is the parlor. this is the way it looked during james garfield 1880 campaign.

this was indeed both a formal parlor and a family room. james and lucretia spent a lot of time with their children. they had lost two children to infancy, eliza-arabella and edward. those children died before the family moved here. their five children all had the benefit of having two very intelligent parents who strongly believed in education. they felt education was an emancipating factor and that led to the key to success. we have molly's piano. in the family parlor, you see a lot of books. their children loved to read as well.

some of their favorite authors were dickens. and also william shakespeare. the family would sit by the fireplace and read to one another. that was one of their favorite activities. we are here in the family dining room. this is an interesting art piece. it won an award at the philadelphia centennial. mrs. garfield absolutely adored her time at the exhibition. she visited all of the tents. she was interested in the latest sciences and technologies of the day. she would write pages and pages of what she saw at the site. she was very intelligent, she loved the sciences.

like most families, dinnertime was a very important time of the day. it was a time for them all to get together and talk about what they were doing. the garfields would use this time to educate the children. sometimes garfield would bring a book to the table, words that were often mispronounced and quiz the children. they made everything an educational experience. >> we learned about the kind of parents they were. tell the story of how they met. >> it is really quite fascinating, so many minor chords in it. this sense of equality to it. both of them saw each other as equals. lucretia garfield was the great granddaughter of a german

immigrant. her parents were very religious. they were members of the disciple of christ. her father was one of the founders of the eclectic institute. they believed in education of women. this is a fascinating phenomenon in ohio. you see this with all of the presidents' wives born and raised in ohio, equal education for women. lucretia garfield went through grade school, went to the eclectic institute. she studied the classics, she learned how to speak greek and latin and french and german. she studied science, biology, mathematics, history, philosophy. right away, if you can think of passion coming to the world of

ideas, there was a passion struck between the two of them. james garfield came from a very poor family. he never knew his father. he had been a canal boy, one of those young guys who would walk with the mules and pull the canal boats. everything they got, they greatly appreciated. he felt that education was the answer. he was her teacher at the eclectic institute. he went to williams college and they began a correspondence. that is where you begin -- it is the world of ideas that begin to separate them and bring them together. they argued over ideas. one of those ideas with the fact there was another woman that she

met at his graduation from williams college. that became a point of contention. >> we have a sense of that with a letter that she wrote to james garfield about the relationship it was touch and go. >> what is really interesting is even though she very much loved him, she also looked out for herself. she is going to become a teacher and she determined that she would work and earn her own salary. she did not want to be a burden on her father. if she never got married, had to depend on anyone else.

she not only becomes a teacher, but an interest of art is born in her. she becomes an art teacher. this is all right before she gets married. he has another affair. he has a full-blown affair with a woman in new york. that nearly does in the marriage. >> stanley is watching us in ohio. what is your question? >> thank you for c-span. i really do like the presidential series. i visited the home here about six days ago and was really impressed with the furnishings in the home. did mrs. garfield furnish the home and build the library herself before the president died?

>> you know, yes. the interior, it was by her hand. most importantly, in answering your question, she had built onto it after his death that fireproof safe, which is part of the house, specifically to house and protect and preserve his letters and papers. she had been planning on writing a biography about him herself and she never lived to do that. later, those letters were published before being donated. i know in the show we have spoken about first ladies who burned papers. lucretia garfield had such a sense of history, she kept papers. even the ones that might prove

embarrassing or personal that related to her marriage. she had a sense of herself and her husband beyond their own lives as historical figures. >> let's hear james garfield's side of the story. he wrote to her -- they eventually do get married. the early days of their marriage, they were together for six weeks out of six years. his tenure in the civil war, followed by his election in congress. how does this marriage get to the point where they were functioning as a couple? >> she moved to washington. the first child died. it was a little girl.

she gave birth seven times. their last child died. i believe it was her physical presence. what is fascinating about her in building this house, she created a room for herself. even though she was a devoted mother, there are a couple of letters where she says, it really gets on your nerves and it hurts your ego to think that your whole life after this education is being spent -- i cannot remember the word she uses. these little terrors are all that occupy your time. she began to develop her passion for art and painting, reading and writing. she was quite an essayist, none of it for publication, but she had this room.

they also joined the burns literary society. >> david is listening from chicago. >> president arthur burned his personal papers along with his white house papers. he got so little publicity on this action. why the difference between the two? i am looking forward to your book on mckinley this spring. >> thank you very much. president arthur, there are some indications that it was his son who may have had more of a hand in that.

arthur himself did feel very intensely about protecting his privacy. we will be talking a little bit about the arthurs. the issue was in terms of the hardings, the air of suspicion coming on the heels of the various political scandals. the action that mrs. harding took suggested some kind of malfeasance and that was not the case. >> back to the story of lucretia garfield, we learned how often her husband was away, leaving her with all of those children to raise on her own. she talks about the frustration of being the one who has to make the decisions. >> my darling, i cannot conceive

of any possible reason why he should be such a trial to my life. i cannot be patient with him anymore than i can submit to patience with some extreme physical torture. what he will ever become, i do not know. it is horrible to be a man, but the driving misery of being a woman is almost as bad. to be half civilized and obliged to spend the largest part of the time the victim of young barbarians keeps one in perpetual torment. >> somehow they made it all work and brought all of those children to the white house. we have a photograph of the family in the white house. it was a brief tenure.

what was family life like in the white house? >> it was healthy, funny, humorous, there was no ill sentiment. nobody was trying to use them as examples of good living. the two older boys were to be going to college, but they were so close, they remained in the house and they studied there. there were two little boys who were kind of terrors. and a very beautiful openhearted daughter, molly, who kept a little diary when she was in the white house. it was a poignant document because it talks about her father's assassination.

the grandmother was also there, garfield's mother. garfield's mother came to live there. she had raised her son to be president and even when mrs. garfield was ill, some speculation about who should be able to return as hostess, there were some suggestions that old mother garfield would come to the white house and take over. there are some suggestions that that idea did not go over too well. >> a lot of first ladies have a cause of their own. >> really interesting.

there is one suggestion, and it is written in a letter by one of the first people in the united states, a woman, who was both blind and deaf, who had achieved higher education and was in touch with mrs. garfield. there was some suggestion that mrs. garfield was interested in working with people who were sight-impaired or hearing- impaired and developing educational outlets for them. but the one project we know about is going to the library of congress to do research on the history of the white house. bringing a sense of history. the people at this point, 80 years the white house has been standing, and all of the families have lived there. now you are having one and two and three generations worth of

stories. she has a sense of history and the history of the house. in her papers is a fascinating lists of artists and writers that she intended to invite to the white house. >> next is thomas in new york. >> hello, can you hear me? >> i am sorry, but you have to turn the tv volume down. we will move on to one quick video which talks about her artistic ability and things like the white house china. >> here in the family dining room, we have the family china, which is the china they used at the white house. i will take one out.

it has the g monogram on it. the garfields were not rich people. they brought their best stuff with them. they would have used this china at home and at the white house. this would have been their formal dinnerware. we have quite a collection here of the china that exists. it is a pretty impressive set, china painting was very popular. the very top row were hand- painted by lucretia garfield. mrs. garfield was very up on the latest trends and style of the day and she had a very good eye for art. she taught painting for a while. around the fireplace are hand- painted tiles. she painted the two top corner

tiles. the other tiles were painted by the children. james garfield said that his wife had faultless taste. she chose her furniture very carefully. >> did she have the opportunity to host any events? >> she hosted a regular reception and it is fascinating that at one of those, a man by the name of charles guiteau, who would shoot the president two months later, met her and reported having a very pleasant conversation with her and liking her. of course, she gets malaria. there is fear that she might die. as she is recovering, it is

thought she would do better at the jersey shore. guiteau is waiting for him at the railroad station and sees him escorting mrs. garfield and he cannot bring himself to shoot the president. >> that is in june. i want to pause for dramatic effect. just a short while later, he gets a second chance. >> the president is on his way to new jersey to join his wife and he is then going to go up to massachusetts. two of the boys are back in ohio with her grandmother. the president's daughter is with her mother. and guiteau shoots the president. right away, he sees the wife of james blaine.

he tells her to wire lucretia. she is overwhelmed at first and she almost faints. she has to be held up by men on either side of her. she composes herself and says to the doctor, what will it take to make sure he is cured? and they say, a miracle. and she says, that is what will happen. >> this was july in washington, d.c. she contracted malaria and it was a dangerous place for health in the summertime. how does this affect the care? >> they know he has a bullet.

there is a rudimentary air- conditioning system pumping cool air up from the ground floor. >> they do that specifically. >> ideas for inventions, but all kinds of kooky recipes and potions are being sent to mrs. garfield. mrs. garfield was fantastic in that she was able to compartmentalize and had the wherewithal to put out this word that everything was fine. this was a very important thing. she asked that everything

written about him be sent to her for review. vice president arthur made no rumblings about assuming any presidential duties. he respected her. you begin to see generated first in the country and then around the world the most amazing articles about this woman's courage, this woman's intelligence, her fortitude, how it was pervading the white house. cheering up the president. then there were the technology of the day, you saw images of mrs. garfield, her down in the kitchen preparing food for him. it was a little bit of hyperbole because it was a desperate situation.

alexander graham bell offered to bring in a newfangled magnetic electromagnetic machine to find the bullet. >> he was trying to trace a metal bullet. in fact, the machine saw the bed srpings. is it true president garfield died not from the gunshot but from bacteria from dirty instruments used by the doctor? >> the bullet was dirty. he might have eventually died. it is a circumstantial situation. i will say he had one woman doctor. after the federal government paid the doctors, they paid the

woman doctor half the amount and mrs. garfield wrote a letter and was outraged. the woman doctor received the same amount as the male doctors. >> thank you, c-span, for the program. during that timeframe, would they have known the rockefellers and the vanderbilts? >> chester arthur and his wife did. i would not doubt that she would've had contact with them. kerry cashed -- carrie.

>> thank you. was there a big age difference between the president and mrs. garfield? >> i do not recall. i think it was five years or less. >> the president was shot again july 2 and he lingered until september. the decision was made to move him to the jersey shore. >> the very place he had been headed to see her. that is where he dies, in her presence. she gets a letter from julia tyler. mrs. tyler writes her a letter and says, i wanted to emphasize that, and she used the word a sister. ofking about this sort sorority of presidential spouses. >> the funeral.

250,000 people came. set the stage for this victorian-era funeral. >> what says it all is the way the white house looked. there are photographs showing it trimmed. mrs. garfield was strong throughout. she did not break down, unlike mary lincoln, who was unable to emotionally withstand the public display of this. mrs. garfield began designing and working with the ideas of what his tomb would be like in ohio.

>> jacqueline kennedy took that model and became very much involved in the planning of the funeral process. >> with that, the legacy. lucretia garfield, we mentioned the papers she was preserving. she approved statues. she was really hands-on whenever it had anything to do with them. >> how did the children react to their father's assassination? >> i do not remember the ages and they were not all there when he died. two of the boys were young. there were two other boys, college-age.

about 13 or 14 years old, and there were two younger boys. >> the amazing thing is that there is a fund drive for the garfield family. somewhere between $350,000 and $360,000 raised for the family. >> extraordinary. >> were people sending money from all over the place? >> she really captured people's imaginations. it was a brief moment in our history. it was so different from the way people reacted to mary lincoln. because of mrs. garfield's being awarded almost immediately by congress a presidential widow's

pension of $5,000 a year, that also benefited the other surviving presidential widows. true to form, mrs. lincoln's reaction was, i am sure somebody is going to put the kibosh on that and i will not ever get my money. julia tyler wrote an anonymous letter to the press, this is wonderful, but i think it should be double that amount. >> thank you for the series. we were watching cbs one we were watching cbs one morning. who was the only president buried aboveground? they said garfield. we took the car and we drove up there. there is his monument. it has steel bars.

it has the american flag draped over it. a beautiful bronze statue upstairs, it is a beautiful place. >> i do not know if he is the only president buried aboveground. thank you for the recommendation. we are trying to interest people in learning more about american history. another video. this is returning to the ohio home of the garfields. we will learn how she began to preserve her husband's memory. >> after james garfield's death, she started to make her life and her family's life again in this house and on this property.

she started to make a lot of changes to the property. she started using the upstairs bedroom a lot more frequently. she converted the downstairs kitchen into an open reception room and had the kitchen moved into the back part of the house. most significantly was the construction of the presidential library. she started to make a lot of changes to the property. i am standing in the room that he used as an office for the years that he was living here in the house. lucretia garfield called this the general snuggery. this room looks pretty much how it did. she did make a few minor changes in here, "in memorium" is carved

in the wood. it does have an interesting double meaning. it was also the title of james and lucretia's favorite poem. he became a first-time member of the house of representatives. the first born child, eliza died. she was only two or three. this was very tragic and it brought them much closer together than they have been. two weeks or so after the daughter's death, he told lucretia that he had been not

reading this poem, "in memorial" by alfred lord tennyson. it should bring him as much comfort as it did to him. when lucretia garfield had it carved in the wood in his office after his death, she was of knowledge and not only his tragic death at a young age, only 49 when he was assassinated, but also the love of literature with the tennyson poem. host: later on, we will come back to the years after the white house with lucretia garfield. with the assassination of her husband in september, chester arthur, the political opponent on the opposite side of the republican party, suddenly found himself president.

he found himself without a wife and a vice president. what was the transition like? guest: the focus really remained for so long in september and well into october, november chester arthur lived his permanent home in new york city on lexington avenue. he, himself, was still in a state of very deep mourning, because his wife, ellen, died in january 1880. she came from a powerful family. she knew dolly madison when she was a little girl.

they went to st. john's church on lafayette square. when she was 5-10, she knew dolly madison. her father was a very famous naval commandants who took a ship on a commercial ship that went down. it was an act of bravery because he made sure that all the passengers on board got off a first. his widow and his daughter, their only child, then living in new york city were given all sorts of war armor's, a monument to him at annapolis naval academy. alan arthur is really interesting. she does not become first lady, but she influences the

administration. very similar to racial jackson the way that she was the ghost, the memory of her. chester arthur made several appointments, four we know of, specifically of people who had known his wife. one was a cousin in the office of the attorney general made assistant attorney general. another was in the treasury. it was very controversial that he named the superintendent of the naval academy, he appointed a friend of theirs, a childhood friend of his wife's. he created a political problem in the senate, like the prerogative of appointing mayors, is ceremonial role played out in the white house, but are for insisted in making that appointment because it was a friend of his and alan's.

he kept her picture on the wall, fresh flowers, he had a stained- glass window put in at st. john's church so he could see it from his bedroom window in the white house. there was some remorse, perhaps, because he was quite married to his career and his political advancement and mrs. arthur was an accomplished singer who died of pneumonia while he was in albany on political business. you come in without a wife, without a vice president and his 10-year-old daughters living with his sister in albany. the press at the time began speculating in a series of

articles to would be the lady of the white house. host: the man was wealthy, very stylish. he lived quite a life in new york city. he had this tragedy of being a widower. you could see there would be a press line that the it press would be very interested in. guest: it was a little unseemly because there are a lot of wealthy women are women who wanted to be wealthy who began flirtatiously appearing where ever president arthur was. he had no interest whatsoever in remarrying. he really became depressed. he basically said, i'm not going to have a first lady. no one will take the role of my wife. he starts having the social events once the social season begins again, when congress comes back in the session, and

it is like first lady for a day. he has these events were a cabinet wife, a senate wife, none of it is really quite working and the following year, 1883, new year's day, his sister from albany comes down. there is an indication that he nearly had a terminal illness and he wanted to be close to his daughter. they came down from new york. at the time, she was being taken care of by her aunt, mary arthur, nicknamed mali. host: so that is the same person. on twitter -- guest: she lived in the white house with her brother. host: how protective of they've were they of the little girl? guest: part of the reason arthur kept her away from the white

house for nearly one year making sure that she lived either at her home, his home in new york city, and he was having that remodeled, so she went to live with an aunt and there were two other girls, jessie and may, who came to live with their mother in the white house. host: what is your question? caller: if president garfield had been shot in our modern times with our technology, do you think he would have been saved? guest: i would just venture a guess to say yes. the simple removal of a bullet, he would be able to detect where it was in the system.

host: arthur may have been severely depressed by the loss of his wife, but they entertained lavishly in the white house and he undertook an amazing redecoration of the white house that was don by louis tiffany. if you think of a tiffany lamp with all the colors, think about that in the white house. what did it look like when it was don? >> the elephant in the room, the thing you could not ignore, was this wall of tiffany glass. it was put up a nine now what is the main hall, the central hall of the state for. you come in from the main entrance, the north entrance of the white house into technically

the lobby, the entrance, and today you see white columns and it opens up and the doors to the blue room immediately, the red room, the green room, but in those days the draft was so bad and people were complaining, he put up this wall of garish, victorian tiffany glass. >> that is garish by our tastes, but it was high style at the time. guest: it did not even last 20 years. the teddy roosevelt won and that wall smashed to bits. host: it was not preserved? guest: no. host: this was a busy time in the country. we have a few highlights of the administration and some of the issues that the are from administration was dealing with, with out a vice-president in office, the chinese exclusion act, the presidential veto of the carriage of passengers at

see bill, the river and harbor act, and pendleton civil service reform act. we talked earlier about civil service reform being the key issue of the time. what happened with the about box guest: -- what happened with that? guest: just like social security, to some degree civil rights, things come in increments and descended of being the first major piece of legislation that started to make the first real prevention of the spoils system of basically the political system. remember, federal employees could be fired. people who work in the treasury building.

we think of those people today as career bureaucrats are people working as federal employees, they could all be fired and whoever was in power would then appoint whoever they wanted. it was not only unfair but it was inefficient. arthur really takes those first steps and he puts the first efforts in in terms of building a modern u.s. navy. while the chinese exclusion act was really an awful thing in terms of just about right active bigotry, are for have supported something that was far less stressed than what passed. there was a worse proposal out there. arthur gets a bad rap sometimes. host: did arthur keep garfield's cabinet?

who was his most important advisor? guest: i do not recall. he did initially through the new year, but i cannot recall specifically the individual members of his cabinet that continued on. when you speak of the garfield administration, you are really talking more about the our for administration. host: rachel on facebook -- what measures were taken to insure the safety after the assassination? guest: none. there are guards at the front door, but it still had this sort of lazy, old hotel quality to it. even with arthur's restoration redecoration, there was one reason why he was very protective of his daughter. in is not done so the 1886 new year's day reception, two months before he leaves, that he allows

his daughter to publicly appear. host: in alaska, welcome to the conversation. caller: thank you. this is a great show. i heard something many years ago and i don't know if it's true. garfield had the ability to take lee sands from each hand and simultaneously write the same thing in greek and latin. is this true? guest: from all i have learned, that was true. he was ambidextrous. host: were of the styles as progressive as chester? were they as progressive in their style? guest: alan arthur was.

she was very fashionable, very rich largely for the wealth of her mother, and very ambitious. there are a lot of stories about how she really got behind -- she really did not like that politics kept him away from home so often, but on the other hand, she was a very socially ambitious woman and ambitious for the career. even though she was a selling around one of her very close first cousins, because she was an only child, she was very close to her double cousins, her parents' siblings who had married, so double cousins. during the civil war, chester

arthur was able to secure the release of union presence of one of her cousins, but she went to abraham lincoln's 1865 inaugural. she attended the white house wedding of nelly grant. she knew the parents of theodore roosevelt in new york city. she bought at the best stores. they took summers in cooperstown, n.y., and in newport. molly arthur was a little bit more, i would not use the term pedestrian, but she was just not interested. host: last question on the arthur administration, on mary arthur, the sister, she had a very strong opinion on women's suffrage. how influential was she in this non-official white house hostess role? guest: it really showed us that the country had come to expect a female presence, whether it was a wife, sister, daughter. she really walk the fine line.

she made public appearances, sometimes on around, sometimes only with him. i think he almost was kind of ambivalent about how public a role she should take. her support of the anti-suffrage movement occurred after the white house. there was some coverage of it. i will add that she was also a great advocate of civil rights. in her home in albany, she not only welcomed as a dinner guest but as an overnight guest and booker t. washington. host: we have 12 minutes left. as arthur finishes three years, lucretia is establishing herself as a widow and enormous the popular first lady. how did she do that? people are curious about her moved to pasadena, calif.. guest: she could not take the cold winters in colorado

anymore. she maintained a home in washington as a presidential widow. host: at the house should continue to work on. guest: there were times when she would lease the house or property because it was just more feasible. her brother was the manager of the house, but california in the 1880's, there was a real opening up as a sort of a promised land, sunshine, and a lot of california was settled by wealthy midwesterners. she went out to pasadena in 1900 and she was distantly related to two famous architects, green and green, known for the california craftsman style architecture. she had a great interest in

architecture so she worked rate closely with them in designing this extraordinary craftsman manchin which is still standing as a private home and it really became a kind of a showplace. she was even in one of the carriages for the vip's in the early pasadena rose parade. she had a very full life in california. host: you made the point that she was interested in so much. one of our viewers on facebook says, --

what do you think of her taste? guest: i'm not the best to ask about taste, but along those lines she was also an advocate for women's suffrage. she did not come out publicly, just let the issue of temperance. she thought it would make much more controversy than need be, but her daughter also said that her mother truly be -- believed in equality of the genders. you also see her when former president theodore roosevelt in 1912 is mounting a campaign against the incumbent president, she supports the roosevelt. she comes out at an appearance

in los angeles. host: tawney in pleasantville, n.y. caller: one of the books i ever read was "destiny of the republic," and there were some money facts, but the three that are brought to my attention tonight where abraham lincoln's son tad's involvement in three presidential assassinations, not necessarily involved but being in the area. you showed an artist's sketch that carried garfield to the house where he passed away. i'm wondering if you can tell the story of how the car got there. lastly, there is a part in the area, seven presidents park, and they might have to make it 8 president's part now that president obama have visited. why have so many presidents gone to the jersey shore? guest: it was fashionable. the salt air was thought to be recuperative period in order to reach of the house, they have to lay an exit track so the

strength to go right up to the house. guest: he mentioned all the presidents. during the years of the carter administration, these are the first ladies who were brought -- alive -- tyler, polk, lane, lincoln, lucy hayes, and lucretia garfield. we see a bonding across political parties among women who served in the white house. was that happening at this time? guest: we could credit good old molly mcelroy, who is she is credited for everything, she invited them to publicly receive with her as co-hosts. mrs. lincoln and tyler were in the news. with molly mcelroy leaving the role of first lady and handing it over to cleveland, a bachelor of the time, whose sister would be assuming the role, there's a lot of press about these two

sisters. at the same time, in conjunction with all of this, the very first book is written on the history of first ladies and it is a collective biography called "ladies of the white house" by her name escapes me. it is a very famous book. host:l lucretia outlived her husband by many years. we will return one last time to the house in ohio and learn more about the house. [video clip] >> if james a. garfield were to walk in this house, they he would not recognize it.

this was actually the kitchen. after his death, lucretia made major changes. this was changed into the open reception room. the most significant change she made with the construction of the very first presidential memorial library. as begin to the top of the steps here before we go into the memorial library, we come first to the memorial landing and we find one of her favorite portraits of her husband. this was done by a good friend of the garfield and it shows james a. garfield as a major general during the american civil war. this is the room lucretia garfield came up with to really memorialize her husband, keep his memory alive for herself, for their children, and for the country. all over the room, you see books that belonged to james a. garfield. this is a beautiful piece that was sent to mrs. garfield

completely unsolicited by someone in italy. it's a beautiful memorial piece with an image of james garfield surrounded by flowers. it is all actually made with small stones cracked together and was one of her favorite pieces. we have a very beautiful marble bust of james a. garfield of this was also sculpted by an italian and given to her around 1883, two years after his death. here we have what lucretia called the memory room. she has constructed along with the library in 1885-1886 where she is stored his official documents and papers. she had them down and stored it really to keep them for posterity. been a lot of very interesting items. most significantly but is the reif of on the shelf. it was lying on his casket while he was laying in the capitol

building in washington, d.c. it was sent to mrs. garfield the of the british delegation from queen victoria along with a nice hand written note of sympathy from the queen. the garfields used this room a lot. it was not one of those beautiful rooms that you could not go into more touch anything. you see lucretia's writing desk year. she spent a lot of time here. she used a black border stationery. she used it for the rest of her life to denote a lifelong morning for a husband. here, in front of the large windows, two of the garfield children were married in 19 -- 1888. harry garfield, the oldest son, and molly, the only surviving garfield daughter both married their respective fiance's in a double wedding ceremony right here in front of the windows of

the library. host: lucretia garfield made it into the new century. she died in 1918 at the ripe old age of 85. how did she live those post- white house years? how should she be in the pantheon of first ladies? guest: her tenure was so brief. she was the first to be self- conscious and often not destroy the papers and keep a diary of a white house days. she is best thought of as a former first lady in terms of her career. there are a lot of similarities between her and jaclyn kennedy in terms of committing to the legacy of their husbands and yet, also, not allowing the lives of the lives of their children to be weighed down by greece. guest: we are looking at some photographs of a large family. you know if any other family members went into politics? guest: one of his sons was in

the order roosevelt's cabinet and another was in woodrow wilson's. she died one year into world war i, and she was doing work as a volunteer with the red cross in pasadena when she died. there is some suggestion that she decided to go from republican to progressive despite the democratic because president wilson give her son a job in the cabinet. host: on that note, we say thank you. you have spent your historical career focusing on the first lady's as we closed here, how did you get interested? why you think it's interesting for people to learn about first ladies? guest: they have a natural influence on the sinking of their husbands. their intelligence, their

wisdom, and sometimes their ability to see the larger picture that their husbands themselves cannot was, for so many years, neglected. there were always written off as mannequins for closing who had nice dishes. -- mannequins for clothing. their intelligence, efforts, and conscientiousness help their husbands -- the presidency. host: "burst ladies, the saga of presidents and their power." as we close, a say this every week. we're working with the historical society and thank you to those in the car phot -- garfield home in ohio, but also the white house historical association, who have been a partner for us. we have a biography but that have printed and we have a special edition for those who want to read more. you can find it on our website. thank you for being with us for

"first ladies" on the garfield administrations. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] ♪ >> tomorrow night, on the encore

.resentation of first ladies >> francis grayling is so popular that they are imitating her closing hairstyle. owned thethat if we first lady they would serve her well. pictures of the first lady became very popular and you can purchase your own actor of mrs. cleveland to have in your home. we have grover cleveland running for president and mrs. cleveland. >> the encore presentation of our original series continues tomorrow night. next, a town hall meeting in michigan with justin amash. ladies influence and image features lucretia garfield.

later, a focus on the economy with sheila bair. >> on the next washington andnal, the cato institute social security disability. f-ook at the lockheed martin 35 joint strike fighter program. are -- abinter talks nsa's national org chart probably looks like. >> if we turn away from the needs of others, we align

thatlves with the forces are bringing about the suffering. we ought to take event event. >> obesity in this country is a public health crisis. >> especially when somebody had their own agenda. >> adding they serve as a window to the past and what is going on with american women. >> she becomes the chief confidence and the only one he can trust. >> a lot of them were writers. they rule books. >> they are, in many cases, more interesting than their husbands. if only because they are not defined and limited by political ambition. >> one of the unsung heroines in

the white house. it is edith roosevelt's white house. breathless and too much looking down. a little too fast. not a change of pace. >> yes ma'am. lady every case, the first has done what ever has fit her personality and interest. >> she wrote in her memoir that she and her spouse never made any decisions. she only decided what was important and when to presented to him. you stop and think about how much power that is, that is a lot power. power against cancer is fighting the fear that accompanies the disease.

the way wesforms look at these bugaboos. she made it possible for countless people to survive and approach this. i do not know how many presidents have that kind of impact on the way that we live our lives. walking around the white house grounds, i am constantly reminded about all the people would live there before and all of the women. >> first ladies. a c-span original series produced with the white house historical association. season to her mirror september 9. first ladies. >> all this month, congress is in recess and members have been holding town hall meetings. -- justin a h

mash talk about the national security collection program. this is one hour. >> hello, everyone. ben, he is my chief of staff. he does not just work for me. he is primarily in our grand rapids office, and you can find that on my website, and we have a satellite office in battle creek, so if there is something you would like to schedule, you can contact our grand rapids office, and we will make sure we will have someone to meet with you as well. my district director is jordan bush.

he is not here today, but he is also a valuable resource. you can contact the grand rapids office to reach him. please feel free to do so. for a good cause, he is not here today. he is a great resource, and he can help you with any number of issues. there are telephone town halls from time to time, so if you would like to get on those phone calls, we've let our staff know. you can let us know before you leave, but please let us know because we do those from time to time. that gives you another way to stay in contact, and what we will do is have a phone call that goes out to your house maybe 6:00, 7:00 p.m., and you can get on the line and ask questions, and that is a convenient way for people who may have a more difficult time getting out, so if you cannot make it to a town hall and would like to be involved, that is one

way to do it. i also post every vote i take on facebook. i am the only member of congress who does this. you will find an explanation of every single vote of mine on facebook. it is me doing it, not some staff person, so you can contact me directly that way. you do not have to have a facebook account to see the posts. you only need a facebook account if you want to comment. if you are worried about setting up a facebook account, do not worry. you can see everything i have posted and explanations. so i will talk to you very briefly about the nsa, and that is something i have been very involved with, trying to rein in the out-of-control nature of what is going on right now with our surveillance programs, and

that is something that i have spent, as you have probably seen from the news, a lot of time doing over the past couple of months. what the nsa has been doing him as has been declassified now, is collecting the phone records of every single person in the united states, regardless of whether you are under suspicion of anything, so, in other words, the nsa has a database, and they actually collect every time you call someone. they collect the call that was made. they tell you which numbers were connected, the duration of the call, and they keep other sorts of what they call metadata on your calls. they have been doing this for quite some time, but it was

recently disclosed, and the problem, of course, is they are doing it without any suspicion. it does not matter if you have a connection to a terrorist or not. they decided that they have the authority to gather up everyone's data, and, of course, this violates the fourth amendment. you cannot simply go around collecting data. the information of all americans in the united states. without any suspicion. so it is something i have been fighting against as a representative for the past couple of months, and a few weeks ago, we had an amendment on the house floor, a defense appropriation bill. 205 members of congress stood up and said we do not approve of the nsa collecting phone records of every single person on the united states without any suspicion. 217 members said they were ok with it. i think the tide is turning and that things are shifting. it is about what the nsa and what the government is doing.

through reports of how the nsa might be sharing information with the dea and irs, and according to reports, incidentally collecting information, inadvertently collect your information, and then use that information to go after people domestically, and this violates our rule of requiring specific warrants. you cannot have a system where the intelligence agencies, whether it is nsa or any other agency, collects data without a warrant, and then use that, and says, here you go, and prosecute people, and then according to

reports, they are covering their tracks, so defense attorneys do not even know where the data came from. so there are a lot of shocking allegations, revelations out there in reports. one of the things i can tell you is we do not have very much oversight of these programs. there is a secret fisa court that interprets things like the patriot act, and these opinions are not available to members of congress. so, for example, the patriot act is a law related to data gathering, and members of congress have a particular interpretation of it when we passed it. it was up for reauthorization. [applause] [applause] those who voted yes, they have a particular interpretation of

what the patriot act does, and they have been horrified at what they found. the internet is actually being interpreted by that fisa court in a much more expansive way than what they expected, and we would not have known about that if not for the recent disclosures, because the court opinions that interpret the patriot act are secret, and members of congress, rank-and- file members of congress, do not get access to those. you will have access provided to the intelligence committees. you will have the white house with access, but members of congress do not have access. of course, i represent people, like everyone else represents people, and when i am asked to vote on something, i deserve to have the information about the law that everyone else has. they should not keep most of congress in the dark about what

they are voting on, and yet, that is what is happening repeatedly, so i have teamed up with a representative on a bipartisan measure. we do not agree on many things, but we do agree on this. we agree that people's rights are being violated here. the constitution is being violated, so we have teamed up with celebrity act, and what the liberty act will do, and this is a bill that has 50 bipartisan cosponsors, about 50, it is getting more every day, and it is split almost evenly between republicans and democrats, and what the liberty act will do will never of the scope of the patriot act, so that the government can only collect information that actually pertains to a person who is the subject of an investigation under the patriot act, and it

would also provide greater access to members of congress to these fisa court opinions, so we can oversee what is going on. right now, we do not. we just do not have the access. now, there are people on the intelligence committee and the white house who will tell you that members of congress get briefings on this information, and they do receive briefings, but let me tell you how these briefings work. without revealing any of the classified details. you go to a briefing on, say, the patriot act, and it is basically a one-sided affair, where they tell you what the patriot act is and how it is worded, x, y, and z, and then they say, any questions? and when they say they have the opportunity to raise questions about the secret program, phone records collection program, even if we have the opportunity, why do we ask about it? we do not know about it.

it does not make sense to think you are going to as questions about secret programs. am i just going to guess at what the program is? it comes to 20 questions. do you have a secret program? do you have the secret program? so you would sit there forever, trying to figure out what secret programs they have, because they do not volunteer the information to you, so there is actually no real oversight. the fact that we ask questions is not all of that helpful, because you have to go back to the briefing, and go through almost all of the briefings. briefing after briefing after briefing, finding your question in each briefing so that you can get the answers you need. because if you do not ask it in exactly the right way, you are not going to get the answer. and for the white house, which recently said members of congress received a classified document, it was declassified,

and it outlined this phone records collection program, and there was their own white paper, that it actually indicates that we did not receive that. it says that document in 2009 was shared with the intelligence committees, and both intelligence committees shared with their members, and it talks about the updated document that was released in 2011 and shared with the intelligence committees, and it says they

shared it with the members. now, this was in 2011. a large number of republicans in particular were elected in the 2010 elections and just started in 2011, so for that large class of representatives, we never saw that document. and, in fact, the administration white paper hinted that we did not receive the document, so i had my staff actually asked the intelligence committee, and they admitted they did not share the document with us, so we did not receive the information we needed. a lot of my colleagues, particularly the ones who voted yes on the patriot act, or very upset about this, so there is a lot of work to do. this is not a partisan issue. there are people on both sides of the issue, republicans and democrats, but i know the american people are on one side of this issue. they do not want to be spied on, so with that, i went to open up for questions. yes. >> i do not expect you to answer this in a way that would optimize yourself. but i am curious as to whether or not edward snowden, is that the last name?

did edward snowden's action stimulate what is going on with the national security administration? did it really come out of that? >> we never would have gotten to the point where we had votes on the amash amendment if not for that. yes? >> my question is about homeland security. they came out and said anyone living within 100 miles of the border and a show on the map where all of michigan is included and all of florida, i mean come it goes on and on. no more fourth amendment rights. >> i do not know the particular reference you are making. i have heard the 100 miles from the border issue brought up.

is that what you are referring to? >> they can search your computers and cell phones at any time because they have a blanket warrant. what is really strange is western michigan is included in it. is it the border between indiana and -- >> for anyone who is saying that is outrageous or false is insane. >> it is all across. >> yeah. >> in this case, homeland security. >> the fourth amendment protects you regardless of where you live in the country. it doesn't matter whether you live near the border or far away from the border. >> but it is coming out of homeland security. >> if homeland security is saying that, they are wrong.

>> we have got to hold them accountable. >> yes? >> i want to ask about the patriot act. in your amendments or new legislation, would he get rid of the president's ability to have it disappear? >> to have it disappeared? >> indefinitely? >> that would be under that national defense authorization act. >> let me ask you about a senator from california who wants to redefine what the first amendment says by saying who has free speech rights. >> i think that is wrong to define the first amendment in such a way that it only protects journalists. everyone has first amendment

protection. everyone has the right to free speech whether you are a journalist are not. >> she wants to say who is a journalist and who is not a journalist. >> yeah. >> there is a long series of barrages against civil rights. not you. i trust you actually. i do not know why. [laughter] [applause] the white house is bought and paid for. the things they are doing now -- what am i supposed to do when homeland security barges into my house? >> i understand. the culture is changing. on the amash amendment, you have the white house, democratic leadership, republican leadership, the intelligence community, all sorts of high- level officials saying, do not vote for this amendment. it will be a disaster.

still, the majority of democrats and nearly half of the republicans voted for the amendment. aims are changing. it will take a little bit of work. we will need new people in there. the people who have been there for a long time are not getting the message. >> [inaudible] >> that is true. >> hi. i'm representing a libertarian party. we are repairing to have our fest in november. we celebrate michigan residents who have done the most in the name of liberty. you are at the top of our list am especially of the amash amendment. the topic this year is the impact that the war on terror has had on our personal liberties. something that concerns me that goes even further is the impact that it has on our ability to

get the truth about what our government is doing. given that we are now involved in addressing secret threats we secret actions, how do we be sure that when we are told there has been a victory that the threat even existed to begin with? how can you have a responsibility to oversee the executive branch? how can you know whether these threats are credible? >> as i said before, we need better congressional oversight. there are plenty of people in congress who i think are not that interested in bringing out the truth and doing what is right. but there are a lot of people in congress who are interested in doing what is right. i have a lot of allies that i trust on both sides of the aisle. if we have better congressional oversight, you have more people watching and willing to say

something and stand up for what is right. that is a part of the process. the public also needs to have confidence in what we are doing and have the ability to see what is going on. anytime you have secret laws, the public needs to know what the laws are. you cannot have laws that are hidden from the american people in a free country. go ahead. >> [indiscernible] >> i do not think so. i did not vote for john boehner as speaker. i voted for a man from idaho. but he is the speaker of the house. i will tell you that a lot of people could do a much worse job than john boehner. [laughter] >> who?

>> i do not want to name names. one thing about john boehner, whether you agree with him or not, he has been straightforward with us. he has been straightforward with members of congress. we know where he stands on issues. he has not told me that he will do something and then has done something else. he has stuck to his word. i might disagree with the direction he takes, but he sticks to his word. go ahead in the back. >> i arrived late. is the subject. homeland security? >> know. talk about whatever you want. >> with the situation in south carolina with a government id, what is a government id?

second, why haven't you supported obama's jobs bill? >> the first question is about whether -- >> voting rights. the civil rights of 1964, congress had to approve us to be able to vote again. >> i will take a look at that. the issue is one that came up recently. it is something i would like to take a look at. everyone has a right to vote and that should be protected. that is a critical element of our society. that is something i will take a close look at. the issue of the jobs bill, house republicans passed a number of jobs bills, legislation aimed to boost the

economy. those have been taken up i bet senate -- have not been taken up those have been taken up i bet senate -- have not been taken up by the senate or president. we want to help the economy by looking at all of the people and how to create a for your economy that everyone -- free economy that everyone can prosper in. >> [indiscernible] >> i wouldn't support doing anything at the federal level. from my perspective, it is a state and local issue. >> you would support the state?

>> unfortunately, i'm not a michigan state legislator. >> i mean another one from michigan. and i think you are a state level. would you support it? >> that is something i am leaving to the state and local officials and not comment on it as a federal official. yes? >> i'm concerned about obamacare.

there was an article in the paper i read the other day. yesterday a surgeon informed me because of my age, this could -- i could qualify for this. i do not qualify for less invasive and more expensive medical treatment required to correct the serious health problems. anyone over the age of 60 take note -- affordable care beginning to show us its ugly

head. the independent -- independent payment advisory board will be making a decision on us. and that is from the irs, who we know is pretty questionable at this time. we expect our governments to try to keep medical costs lower on the backs of those who are most likely to need that same care.

no wonder congress and the president exempted themselves from this monstrosity. why is it that the president and congress doesn't have to follow the laws that they make that we have to live by? not just obamacare, but all of them? [applause] >> everyone should be following the same laws in this country. we should not have a friend laws for different people. -- should not have different laws for different people. congress is not exempted from obamacare. congress and our staff have to go on obamacare. we were booted off our healthcare -- we will be booted off our health care when the new year starts. >> and the president? >> i do not think the president has too. the problem is that we have the white house and their staff and federal employees who do not have to go on to obamacare. they do not have to do the exchanges. but congress members and their staff do have to go on to obamacare. excuse me? >> adjust the subsidies. -- address the subsidies. >> there is a premium payment that members of congress and their staff get, which is the same they have been getting all along currently as part of our benefits from our employer, which is the government. it is just like any other employer might give her man payments to their employees. we are in an unusual situation. we are getting kicked off our employer's healthcare and getting put onto the exchanges. the question is whether you can get premium payments from your employer if you are kicked onto the exchanges. this would not happen to anyone else. no one would get kicked off other healthcare and onto the exchanges. there is no change in terms of premium payments you are getting from your employer as a member of congress or your staff. nothing changes there. it stays at it currently is. they're not eligible for tax credits and others that others might be eligible for.

>> do you have to pay income tax on your wages? >> yes. [laughter] >> do you pay social security tax? >> yes. >> this question here -- hard- working recipients prudently despairs of his two low-paying jobs with no benefits. this pertains to a lot of people. to lift his spirits, he watches a tape of congressional members going down the capitol steps thursday afternoon after a three-day work session.

they have achieved the american dream -- getting full pay, premium healthcare, office staff, and travels just for part-time work at the capitol. surely one so blessed with think of struggling workers and supported health care for the middle class working poor. the skepticism encompasses him. many congressional members seeking reelection are promising good jobs and less government regulation and speak as examples for that prerequisite. as a doolittle congress, it is all speculation. -- do little congress, it is all speculation. we are concerned about congress and suspicious of government today. the irs thing is just bonkers. we cannot believe -- we cannot trust the government. i guess that is all i have got to say.

>> i think that is all fair. i am skeptical of government as you are. if you have followed my work, you will find that i have more than a healthy dose of skepticism of government, including skepticism of many of my colleagues. [laughter] >> we do have confidence in the work that you do. >> thank you. go ahead. >> is there any realistic chance that the irs will be fundamentally restructured or go to a flat tax? >> i do not think so in the short run.

not because i would not want that, but because i think there is too much push back. members of congress tend to like having a complicated tax code. the more complicated tax code is, the more big corporations and others have to come to them and beg for favors. the more favors they can hand out, the more campaign contributions they get. there is a sense in which it is rigged like that. it will take time. i would support undoing our income tax to get rid of it completely and replace it with a consumption tax. i think we are a ways away from that. when i was in the state house, i

thought about what the state government was doing among which was giving out all sorts of targeted tax breaks and benefits. the more complicated you make the tax code, the more benefits for the wealthy people. yes? >> my question is about immigration reform. i saw in the new yorker yesterday that said people in michigan will have a hard time this season picking apple crops because they will not have enough migrant workers. i was wondering if you would support a bill from the senate or something different to get immigration reform passed? >> i would not support the senate bill, but i would support immigration reform. it has to have border security, which includes dealing with visa

over stays the some people overstay their visas, you need to have a better legal immigration system so people can come here and become president legally or come here to find work legally. currently, it is hard to come to the u.s. whether it is as a guest worker or if you want to become a resident. it is difficult. we need to improve that system. that is where we tend to get a lot of push back. a lot of democratic colleagues do not want to improve the legal system.

they are interested in approving citizenship, but not the legal immigration system. i think the legal immigration system would help with border security. you will likely have less people trying to cross illegally. we need to deal with 11 million people who are here illegally. no one will deport them. you have to find a way to give them legal status over a long period of time. once they have obtained that, they can be treated like anyone else who is here as a legal resident. if they want to obtain citizenship, they will not go ahead of anyone else.

they will be treated like anyone else who came here illegally. this is not a special pass to citizenship. give them the ability to be here legally and then they are treated like everyone else. they're not moved into the front of the line or anything like that. yes? >> a question on gun control. what is your stance on it? and where are we as a government with the gun control situation?

executive orders in our risen -- prison -- what type of control do you have against executive orders? people here do not have a voice. >> on gun control, i am skeptical of federal involvement in gun control. the second amendment is extremely important. it is important as any other part of the constitution. there is a reason it is in place. you have to consider the context of how it was put in place. they want to make sure that the people would be protected and always have the right to defend themselves. it is important that the federal government not infringe upon that right.

that is where i stand with the specter gun control. with the respect executive orders, some executive orders are ok. a lot executive orders have not been ok. they take an old law and interpret that law to provide them with some authority to do something new when congress doesn't want to pass a new law. the white house says, well, we will do it using this old law and reinterpret this law to allow us to do it. that is wrong. that is unconstitutional. we should do what we can to defund those kinds of activities. congress holds the purse strings.

we do not have to fund activities that we think are unconstitutional. yes? i think you are the youngest person in the town hall. [laughter] >> i have a question about prism. i'm on the internet a lot. when i heard about this, i was really mad because the

government should not be spying on us. i'm not even sure why anyone has second thoughts on this. as is unconstitutional. -- this is unconstitutional. it goes against what america's founding fathers have said. >> that is a great question. the prism program is largely classified. there has been some talk about it. i have to be careful with what i say. the bottom line is, there are too many people in congress right now who are forgetting that there is a constitution that restricts what they do. the point of the constitution is to restrict what the federal government does. in the name of security, they are forgetting that their first right or the is to protect liberties. that is why we have a government to ensure that we have liberty as a people. that is what they are forgetting. they are focused solely on the security aspect. they think as long as the nsa or

some other agency is stopping bad guys, they can go after collecting information on all sorts of people and have no consequences. of course, there is a huge threat to that. we do not want the government to have this kind of data to use against americans in the future. >> yeah. also, i'm also worried about, like, all the gay rights stuff. i'm thinking, like, this could be like the racism thing. but it is like the same thing except it is between days and -- gays and non-gays. who cares? does it really matter? [applause] >> that is a great point. i do not believe the government should be involved in deciding who can get married and who cannot. that is not an appropriate role for the government. marriage is a private institution. it is between two people and their personal lives. i'm an orthodox christian. my wife and i do not need the government telling us that we can get married. no one else needs a government telling them that they can get married. that is up to them. i agree with you. [applause] yes? >> i guess my main question is since congress is supposedly a holding the purse strings of our country, i'm interested in what is going to happen with the so- called affordable care act. what are the chances of congress actually holding the purse strings on that? >> great question. i think that they should defund it. they shouldn't pass an appropriations bill in september that funds obama care. right now that is the debate. there are republican members in congress who think we should fund obamacare thomas and there are others who think we should not. i think the law is unconstitutional. i think it will hurt our health care. it will reduce choices. the more regulations you have on the insurance industry, the more you create a monopoly of insurance were a few players control the whole market.

what you really want to have is more competent haitian. less regulation on insurance some are types of insurance to be offered and people could make decisions for their own lives and what it when the purchase. you also need to find a way to move away from the third-party payer system that we have. we have to move away from that. what you do is you buy insurance and you go to the doctors office. patients and doctors do not know how much a procedure costs. they do not know how much medication costs. there is no incentive that people have right now to keep costs down. if you know everything is covered by insurance, you will just take it. there ends up being an overusage with a lot of medical care. not with all, but a lot. >> my advice to people before government got involved in this was the fact that you would go to the hospital and have the insurance pay the medical expenses out of your pocket. they always had a little bit pay of their own. as a young man, two of my kids were born without insurance.

i paid payments. i paid the whole thing. of course, back then it was only $250. [laughter] anyway, the affordable care act, i do not want bureaucrats telling me what services i will qualify for. >> and what kind of insurance you can get. >> that is true. i can imagine what the price will be. i have got medicare right now. but there was money taken out of it to put into the affordable care act. what will that do to my coverage? to be honest, i am scared to death. i have my wife and my family. >> a lot of people are worried about this. i have spoken at a number of town halls. it is the number one issue that

comes up. people are concerned about obamacare. i think it is a train wreck. i do not think it will work. we will have to move to something that is more free- market oriented. we need people to be able to make choices for their own lives and were prices mean something. in the back. go ahead. >> [indiscernible] many folks in this room are seniors. many will have benefited in some manner to preventive services and other screenings that they never would have had before. the grandchildren are able to be on their parents insurance that was not there before. i might -- more concerned with how congress cannot work together. why can't both sides fix this? the affordable care act has a lot of good things. it is not great. thanks it. do not spend 40 times trying to vote it down. you are wasting our resources. many seniors are over 60. they are anxious about it

because of that misinformation from both sides. it. don't try to get rid of it. republicans try to stop social security, medicare, medicaid, and a number of things that were similar to this. the affordable care act was based upon massachusetts, governor romney's state, they helped develop the model. it is not all bad. do not try to throw all of it

out. you are making a mistake. there are a number of good things in it. except. >> i mentioned a couple. you will find out -- it will not mess you up if you are on medicare. you will not be messed up by it. we have a help system that is

privatized. all of the hospitals are biting each other out -- buying it each other out. that is what is making it so expensive to go to the hospital. >> [inaudible] >> hang on. let's all be respectful. let's all be respect will please. -- respectful please. you cannot lower the cost by mandating everyone to be on the insurance. you cannot do it. we cannot mandate that everyone gets on it and expect prices to go down. it will not go down.

both parties are concerned about it. it is not just one sided. it is important to remember when we talked about working together at obamacare was passed with one party passing it. one party basically passed it over the objections of the other party. you will not have any sort of reform that is acceptable to the public when one party decides they will pass it and the other party completely objects to it. that is a serious flaw in the way that it was passed. whether it is immigration reform or health reform, you need some agreement to train the parties on this issue. -- between the parties on these issues. >> i have written to you and have commended you for doing the town halls.

you are the guy to vote for if i get the chance, and i did. i have only two questions. if you have been in jail for a dui and you got out, does that take away your voting rights for life? >> i do not think so. have you been in jail for a dui? i wouldn't know. i do not believe it would take away your voting rights. >> i heard it was in another state and has moved to michigan. i have friends who think they cannot come here because it would have to show a voting card. >> i do not think that is true. you could always ask someone on my staff afterwards. >> i will. my next question -- i have one more question.

>> [inaudible] >> do you have a question? -- do you have an answer? >> you may vote once you are out of incarceration. >> thank you. if you have a ccw in michigan and plan to drive in other states, what other -- >> then you can get in trouble. in that case, i would not recommend taking that trip. [laughter] >> thank you. >> i know some who did that and went to jail because of it. yes? >> my name is jane wilson. i'm very concerned about something that has been very subtly passed all across the land that affects all of our children. it has not come to the

legislature. it came from the department, the state department of education. it is from the u.s. department of education, arnie duncan. it is a federal takeover of our education, including all of our children. it has -- i am very concerned about this. it is data collection on all of our children and putting them into a national databank with a lot of private information. 415 items on every child. it does not only collecting the data banks, but they are breaking three federal laws. they are going against one of the amendments, which says states are to be controlling education, and they have also changed the family rights and privacy law so that they can collect all of this information. the purpose of it is to dumb down our children and to indoctrinate them so that they will accept a left-wing idea of our country and our country's history. it is dumbing them down. teachers and parents who do know about it are very concerned. i spoke to a teacher last night

at the county fair. very upset with what -- but the thing is, most parents do not know about it. they are the ones who signed us on to this thing that we are a part of. it passed a line that we have never passed before. it takes away any safe from anybody within the state. it has been given control to this consortium. there is nobody to go to if we

do not like it or if we want to change it. i think that arne duncan, there needs to be some hearings on him and his activities. i learned yesterday that our kellogg's on patient has given $400,000 to -- has given $400,000 to -- so they can get information on preschoolers. >> i'm against that. [applause] i do not want the federal government telling our schools what to do. i think that is a bad idea. it is not good for students. education should be something that is handled locally. you should have states competing to have the best system rather than having one standard that creates problems for the whole country. i'm against that. we should return our control to local families and local governments. >> and indoctrinating ideologies?

>> i do not know what the standards are. i cannot comment on that. >> [indiscernible] >> i love that information. thank you. >> yes question -- yes? >> they have thousands of people doing things that are illegal. for instance, recruiting non- eligible voters to vote. and they're being funded by federal taxpayer money. these people must stop. ok, great number of these people went to work for other organizations doing the same thing. being funded by federal money. that is the question. >> i do not know. i have not voted for any of those appropriations bills. the appropriation bill i voted for was veterans affairs. the other appropriation bills i have not voted for. so, i couldn't tell you the details of every single appropriation bill.

>> there are a bunch of other organizations that these people have gathered. one other thing -- in the past year, i heard the president saying everybody should vote. i do not want anyone to sell them legal ids to vote. vote. i understand that was even an executive order. just because you are here, these people are voting, they are not even here legally. i do not think they can go, but they were voting.

that is what i read in the paper. what are we doing about it? >> only citizens should vote. i do not how to address the issue other than that. only people who aren't legal voters with citizenship should vote -- are legal voters with citizenship should vote. have i called on you? >> when we were talking about obamacare, you made a comment that i heard from many representatives and from senators. we need more competition in the system as opposed to more regulation. the problem is i have never heard anyone explain who is

competing against who. as a patient, i'm a user under this system. i can i shop for quality or price. i cannot call of doctors up to find out who will give me the cheapest operation on my arm. i cannot call a fire hospitals to see who will charge the most for anastasia -- five hospitals to see who will chose the most for anesthetia. who will compete?

>> the insurers will. >> the insurance companies? why would he want to trust them to run the entire medical system? [crowd grumbling] >> that is not true. you're trusting the federal government to run the health system. >> but we do not have doctors being employed by the government like they do in some countries. most hospitals are private operations. they may not be for-profit, but private operations. if you do not have regulations, how would you achieve polity? -- quality? >> you achieve quality through competition.

>> competition? >> if there is less regulation, you could have more competition. the more regulation you have, the less competition. as a member of congress, the people who come to me and asked for regulations the most are big corporations. a are constantly in the office saying, we want regulations put in place. the reason they want it is because they want to limit the competition. they want to drive out small competitors who have fewer employees and do not have the ability to handle the regulations. that way they can monopolize the market. if you have the government saying that insurance has to happen hundred different items, you will have prices go up. that is the only way it works. you have to allow insurance companies to offer all sorts of products. some cheap, some expensive, and let people decide how they want to spend their money. >> before we had obamacare, we had a system. it was being run by the insurance industry. >> unfortunately, we have never had a system where we had the type of freedom to choose and self products -- sell insurance products that are required. >> what you are saying is that the insurance companies are

going to sell hospitals and doctors through their competitive programs how much can be charged and that will lower prices? >> if insurance companies are allowed to compete with each other, you will have better insurance companies that offer better products at a lower price. >> and the doctors and hospitals will except the cut in their pay? >> will you have to have a competitive market on the one way or the other. >> the patients can do it. >> in the interest of time, we will take a few more questions. keep your questions brief.

>> all right. i have called on you, right? yeah. let me go back there. >> representative amash, as someone who has voted for you, i am very pleased with what you have performed in congress. i would like to say that about some of the gop leadership, unfortunately, i cannot. my biggest issue at this point there are so many of them -- is not obamacare -- is on obamacare and the upcoming vote to fund or

not fund it. in listening to the national discourse, it appears that the republicans are divided as to whether or not they will fund or defund it. there is a very strong argument or a movement toward defending it and dealing with it piecemeal at a later time. this vote to fund or defund is probably the most important and critical of them all. the big issue is will you shut down the federal government? the republicans are being blamed that if they do find it, they will shut down the u.s. government. i would like my voice to be

heard. i think you should defund it. if the federal government gets shut down, it will not be the republicans, but the president of the united states. [applause] the gop leadership needs to understand that sometimes the best defense is a good offense. [applause] >> as i said, i support defunding it. go ahead. >> first off, in the interest of obamacare, i would like to say that no good idea ever came out of being mandated. [laughter] >> i cannot talk about campaign issues at this town hall. let me go in the back. >> since obamacare seems to be the topic -- >> talk about any topic you want. >> i took my son recently to the hospital. he got bit by a dog. we had to go to two different ones because one would not take him. we watched an entire movie of "cars" before someone saw him. i was watching my son scream and bleed because he got bit by a dog. i'm in a situation where i want to buy a book and learn how to do my own stitches so i do not have to deal. [laughter] i wellpoint do we abolish the federal government -- at what point do we abolish the federal government? [laughter] [applause] >> the federal government has an important role.

you have to follow what the constitution says. most of those relate to national defense. that is what the federal government should be focused on, national defense. >> if it is national defense, they are very poor at it. shouldn't we get a new one? [laughter] >> they haven't done a great job of focusing their efforts

properly are falling the constitution when it comes to national defense.at is covered l numerators powers. that should be the priority of the federal government. >> [indiscernible] >> go ahead. >> i'm from battle creek. i would like to bring up a topic of engineering. we are having tons of fine particles spread through the atmosphere. primarily, i believe -- if you go on the internet and study what is kind of poison does, you will find diseases like alzheimer's and nerve diseases and asthma and things like that. so much of that is going around. i have to think that we are being poisoned rather than having all of these degenerated diseases because we are living. i think there is something going on there. i wanted to bring up that topic. >> is there a question associated with that? >> who decides to aerosol us? yesterday over battle creek, i

could have played take cap toe on the sky. there was crosshatch is going every different way. you could watch the material spread out and form clouds. it was supposed to be a lightly cloudy day. it almost looked like it was going to pour down rain. from personal experience, my lungs started to burn and within five minutes, i put on a mask and a long stopped burning. i do not know who is deciding this. it is like we do not have any control over anything weather weekend breathed air or any kind of thing. -- whether we can breathe air or any kind of thing. >> [indiscernible] >> yes. i'm a guy who likes to ride around with my windows open.

>> people should not pollute the environment without consequences. go ahead. >> as it is a key region in the area, how concerned are you about egypt right now? and defunding our aid to the area? they do not seem to want it or our assistance. >> i'm very concerned about our foreign policy. it has been disastrous in the middle east. the government has been sending money to countries that are actively against us. there is total instability.

we do not know where the money or weapons are going to. we need to stop meddling in those places. when it comes to places that are facing these types of civil wars, we need to be careful to mind our own business before we get ourselves into something that we do not want to get ourselves into. yes? >> i want to talk about the national debt. i think that is the armageddon coming down the road. i heard you quote $17 trillion come but really it is $70 trillion.

when you look at the budget bill or budget proposal that goes out, including social security, medicare, we are looking at $70 trillion. we have had three quantitative easing's. the bond yield increases, and so does our payment on the national debt. what is our plan for the national debt? how will we decrease it? i travel a lot. the indiana toll road -- most of the garages in chicago are or around -- are owned by foreign countries. what we do there? >> unfortunately, the government has not had a real plan for the national debt. both parties have ignored it. i have it together and balance budget amendment.

it will require the spending levels be no higher than the average tax revenues of the previous few years. it has a smoothing effect. because of the nice way in which it would work, i have had republicans and democrats signed on to it. it had the most to my credit cosponsors of any new balance budget amendment in recent years. it is a new type of proposal. we need to put something like that in place to force congress to get together and work on this issue. you have democrats who do not want to deal with social security, medicare, or medicaid reform. those are big areas of government. republicans often do not want to do with military spending reform. that is another large area of government. the fact that national defense should be the number one priority does not mean that there is no waste in the pentagon. there is plenty of waste. both sides need to work together

and fashion a compromise that deals with our deficit and our debt. you will have to look at all of these areas. i will criticize my own party. there's plenty of criticism on the upper side -- on the other side. there are bills that are going through congress now. all of the appropriations bills come in at the sequester level or less except for one bill -- the defense bill. but comes in above the sequester level. you cannot have it both ways. you cannot say you want to cut federal spending and when it comes to defense, you will not cut their. you cannot ignore the law and keep spending. the two sides need to come together. social security, medicare, medicaid, defense. the fifth-largest area is interest on the debt. if interest rates went up, the debt because him is equivalent to defense spending.

you could run into a situation where interest on the debt is -- per year. >> we are selling off our assets. we sold off to foreign countries. we have sold to the chinese. what we're doing quietly is selling off the assets of the united states to the highest bidder. i'm really concerned about that when we have a lot of foreign interest that own america. >> the biggest issue is what the total reserve does. >> how come they independently instead of hand to hand like they are supposed to do? >> the federal reserve is a problem. we have a system where basically

e theerson can decide money suply for the world. i want to think you'll for being here today. i appreciate it. we will hold more of the town halls. please stay in touch. thanks. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

>> president obama has been promoting efforts to make education more affordable for the middle class. the university of new york, buffalo, the high school and syracuse, the state university, and the college in scranton pennsylvania. also joined by vice president biden. ♪

>> if we turn away from the needs of others, we align ourselves with those forces which are bringing about suffering. >> we ought to take advantage of it. >> obesity in this country is nothing short of a public health crisis. >> it is only when someone has -- agenda.genda area to whatdow on the path was going on with american women. >> a compromise. the only one in the world to trust. >> many of the world -- women who were first ladies were writers, journalists. they wrote looks. >> they are, in many cases, more interesting as human beings than their husbands, if only because they are not first and

foremost defined and limited. >> when you go to the white house today, it is roosevelt's lighthouse. >> too much looking down. .ot enough change yes ma'am. whateverrst lady does fits her personality and her interest. >> she later wrote in her memoir, i only decided what was important and when to present it to my husband. you stop and think about how much power that is, it is a lot of power. battle against

cancer is to fight the fear that accompanies the disease. >> she transformed the way we looked at these and made it possible for countless people to and flourish, as a result. i do not know how many presidents have that kind of impact on the way we live our lives. >> walking around the white house grounds, i am constantly reminded about all of the people who have lived there before and all of the women. influence ands, women. season two premieres september 9, as we ask or the modern era, roosevelt to obama. tonight, "first

followed by a forum on the state of the u.s. economy .ith former chair and we recall experiences at the event. on the next "washed in -- tad," said of the dehaven. our guest is frank, a defense reporter. "washington journal" is live on c-span everyday at 7:00 a.m. eastern. thursday, discussing the

affordable care act and benefits to the community. live coverage starts at 11:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. a early on, we said, we have 16 acre piece of land and we have to put something on it or maybe not. it was an open-ended, what can we do with it? everyone wanted a say in it. toreceive public input generate a master plan. at the same time that was going on, however, like i said before, you had larry overs, the office space, running the authority, and they believed the of the commercial space destroyed. they wanted to make sure he remained in -- an international financial hub. they believed there was an order

for it to remain that reputation. they had to rebuild all the commercial space. >> the controversy on the rebuilding on the site of the world trade center. "the battle for the ground zero." part of book tv on c-span two. sunday night at 9:00 p.m. >> josh earnest took questions from reporters at the briefing. you can see the event in its entirety any time at the span.org. here is a look. >> right now, they're actually happens to be a united nations chemical weapons investigative team on the ground in syria. they were just granted access to the country yesterday, i believe. given the reports we have seen overnight about what may or may not have taken place in syria, we think it is important for that investigative team to be given access to that area. the assad regime, when presented with evidence that chemical weapons had been used in their

country, have said that they are interested in a credible investigation to get to the bottom of what has happened. it is time for them to live up to that claim. if they actually are interested in getting to the bottom of the use of chemical weapons and whether or not that has occurred in syria, and they will allow the investigative team that is already in syria to access the site where chemical weapons may have been used. it will allow them unfettered access to eyewitnesses, or even those who were affected by the weapons. it will allow them to collect physical samples without manipulation. and it will also ensure the security of that team while they do their work. the u.s. will be consulting with our allies and partners on the united nations security council about this. this is and should be a top priority of the united nations. >> but what about the u.s.

policy should make assad feel threatened in any way, make him feel like he should not do this again? >> this is not just u.s. policy. there is broad international agreement. >> ok, the international community. what about that is threatening to him? >> i cannot speak to what he may or may not find threatening. there is no doubt that we have condemned in the strongest possible terms the use of chemical weapons. and you're right, we even said before there was an intelligence community assessment that chemical weapons had been used, that those individuals responsible for safeguarding chemical weapons would be held accountable for the way they were handled. and you're right, we even said before there was an intelligence community assessment that chemical weapons had been used, that those individuals responsible for safeguarding chemical weapons would be held accountable for the way they were handled. there are a range of consequences for the actions that have possibly taking place. >> what are the consequences? how have they been held accountable for the first incident? and given that we are having a hard time figuring that out, why should they feel threatened

about taking this action again? >> it is hard for me to speak about whether or not they feel threatened. but there is a broad international view that the use of chemical weapons is completely unacceptable. even from people who may disagree with us on some aspects of our policy related to syria it should be able to agree that the use of chemical weapons is completely unacceptable and should be able to support a robust and impartial credible investigation toward whether the chemical weapons were used. again, how this will affect our policy as a relates to the assad regime, will continue to review all complications with our international partners. we're providing assistance to the opposition, and even to the syrian military council. the united states is the largest donor of humanitarian assistance to try to meet the humanitarian needs of the population that has been forced to flee the violence. and in some cases, we're talking about women and children living in terrible conditions just trying to avoid the violence. what is happening is a terrible

situation. there is work that can be done with our international partners to try to continue to pressure the assad regime. i have seen evidence and>> think that we have seen evidence in the investigation that the assad regime is feeling that pressure. you are right, that has not resulted in the outcome that we like to see. that is assad being removed from power. does not just the preference of united states of america, that is the will of the stream people. -- syrian people.

>> season two of first ladies begins monday. will it look at the life of edith roosevelt. we are showing on core presentations of season one. you are on an first lady from martha washington to ida mckinley. garfield.cretia ♪ >> it's only in recent years that a lot of scholarship has focused on the fact that their marriage was in its early phases. >> i think in the early years, james found her a bit distant and cold. as the years went by, she had a tremendous influence on him. >> they spend a lot of time on their children. i thought that education was an

emancipating factor. >> mrs. garfield adored her time at the exhibition, but she was specifically interested in the latest scientific technologies of the day. after james garfield's death, citizens raised hundreds of thousands of dollars that were turned over to lucretia garfield. in today's dollars, it would equate to somewhere around $8 million. >> her character was extremely strong. she had a rectitude that was invulnerable. host: lucretia garfield was born in ohio in 1832. her life spans antebellum america to the progressive era of the early 20th century. a supporter of women's rights and deeply interested in politics, she and president james garfield entered the white house on march 4, 1881 after a very close election. however, what plans she had as first lady were soon cut short by an assassin's bullet. good evening, and welcome to

"first ladies: image and image." after the assassination, the next person to come into the white house, chester arthur, did not have a first lady. to help us understand, we have carl anthony. he is the author of "america's first families." the circumstances of james garfield's election helped to seal the president's fate. tell us the story of where the party politics were at the time. guest: so many of the large issues that had continued in post-civil war era were really in large mode put to rest. the transcontinental railroad by this time had been completed, the troops had been removed from the south during reconstruction. a lot of focus was basically on power and money, and that struggle within the republican party for who would control the party, which meant who would control the positions that were

appointed positions that were at the discretion of people at power. it ended up being a power struggle in the party between an ohio-based party, which is james garfield's party, and rutherford hayes was not only from the same part of ohio but the same kind of thinking, and what were called the stalwarts, which were new york-based. you see certain states really emerge throughout history holding onto power within a particular party. in new york, that was headed by a man who became a united states senator. this was the struggle. you see then, of course, the person who ends up shooting president garfield, charles guiteau, probably screaming with

the gun in his hand, "i am a stalwart. now arthur is president." host: garfield himself was a compromise candidate after many ballots at a republican convention. when they came to the white house, were they accepted? guest: they were largely accepted. this is where lucretia played a vital role. a lot of it was a matter of

cobbling together a cabinet where everybody would be happy, that the new york wing would be happy, that garfield now as leader of the party in the country would be satisfied. you had lucretia garfield playing a little bit of an espionage role in the postelection, pre-inauguration where she goes to new york under the alias of mrs. greenfield, and is really there to deal with this guy she doesn't like, roscoe conkling, and negotiating with members of the cabinet of who would be appointed and who wouldn't. host: lucretia garfield after winning says this -- "it is a terrible responsibility to come to him and me." did she want to become first lady? guest: she did not want to become first lady for herself. she very strongly believed in her husband. they had really been through everything. they lost two children. they had marital problems. by the time he had run in 1880, they are very clear and very square on the same page in terms

of their values. they both shared a lot of intellectual and literary pursuits. that was a mutual passion which during the tough times kept them together, but she was, at the time she got the news that he won the nomination, she was scrubbing the floor. she did not want to pose for photographs. she was very reluctant. she did, and of course, the first images we start to see in paraphernalia during the campaign. she wrote a private letter to some friends and said, the truth is, i do not want to go to that place, but i really believe that my husband is the right man to lead the country. host: we will be taking you to the garfield's home in ohio. it is available for you to visit, run by the national parks

service. if you are ever in the state near cleveland, make a point of visiting it. we will show you as much as we can. there is what it looks like. that front porch became very famous because it was the first front porch campaign. how did the front porch campaign come about? guest: i do not know 100% of the details, except at the time where they lived, it was relatively rural. groups of people really liked coming to hear the candidate speak. that is sort of the whole thing with these front porch campaigns. interestingly enough, most of them took place, all of them took place in the midwest. lincoln's in springfield, harding's and mckinley's in ohio just like garfield. of course, lucretia garfield, what was interesting was because it was technically the property of her private home, her being seen by the voters, the people coming in on horses and buggies

to hear garfield speak didn't find anything at all unusual about the presence of his wife at what was a campaign rally because it was also her home. host: we are going to learn more about the front porch campaign in this video. [video clip] >> this is the site of the nation's very first front porch campaign. james garfield would come out here and give speeches to people who had gathered here from the front part of the property. lucretia's role was more concentrated on the inside. standing in the front hallway of the garfield home probably seems like a strange place to start talking about garfield's widely hailed front porch campaign of 1880. in fact, this was the part of the house where lucretia garfield spent a lot of her time during the 1880 campaign. james a. garfield went to chicago to nominate john sherman for president. he wasn't expecting to be a

candidate. lucretia garfield had no expectation that over the next five months number between 17,000 and 20,000 people would show up at her home and her property in ohio. when these people started to show up, that many people obviously unexpected, uninvited, started to cause a lot of damage to the outside of the property. they were racing all over the property, yanking things out of the ground to take home souvenirs. lucretia garfield was very concerned about what was on the outside of the property, not inside the family home. she spent a lot of time in this front hallway, keeping an eye on the front door, and she was the gatekeeper, making sure that no one she did not want in the house was able to get into the house. you see the front steps.

james garfield's office was at the top of these steps. he would spend a lot of time in the office. at some point during the day, a lot of times he would come down the steps and go to the front door to stand out on the front porch, talk to people gathered out there, and eventually give speeches as part of his front porch campaign. i like to imagine lucretia following behind him and locking the door as he went outside because she was so adamant that people not get inside the home. they had a young family they were very concerned about. they also had just finished a major renovation of the house. lucretia had just gotten the house the way she wanted it did she did not want people coming in to cause the same kind of damage inside that she saw going on outside. we know that lucretia garfield was a very gracious host to people that did come into the home. she very often would greet them here in the front hallway and offer them what she called standing refreshment, which meant she was very gracious. she talked to them for a few moments with a cold glass of water or lemonade, but conspicuously no chair to sit in because she did not want them to overstay their welcome.

host: we have a phone line set aside for you to call in. we will get to call for a couple of minutes. you can also tweet us to use the hashtag #firstladies. here's a comment from our facebook page -- guest: really great question. we have a lot of bits of evidence that cumulatively show us that lucretia garfield was perhaps the first first lady to really have a strong conscientiousness about being part of a historical tradition of first ladies. in her diary, to my knowledge, the only diary kept by a first lady, she records an incident where one of her guests comes in and tells her about the night of the fall of richmond and being with mary lincoln. she writes in her diary that these little sorts of stories

are the kinds of things she begins to accumulate and feels that there are some ghosts of the house. we will talk more about her later life -- she has a sense of sorority with the first ladies who came after her. host: on twitter -- guest: she thought of it as her home. in fact, later on when a well was being built in the back -- i can't remember, there was another structure -- she actually studied the engineering plans, and she was just incredibly interested in so much and taught herself.

she would say things like, i have built a home on my own, i have done it all, and i know what is going on, and i can get the structure out back built quicker and less expensively than is being done right now. she later on changed what was essentially a farmhouse into a victorian mansion. again, that is in the years of her widowhood. she had another beautiful home standing in pasadena, california. host: which was very forward thinking. here is something that james garfield thought about her as they were political partners. he said, "she is unstampedable. there has not been one solitary instance of my public career when i suffered in the smallest degree for any remark she ever made." tell us a bit more about that

unstampedable character. guest: you know, it did not come easy. she was one of those people who spent a lot of time thinking. she always tried to be highly rational in her opinions, when she formed them, and in her concepts of people and ideas and subjects, whatever it might be, current events, history. this was a little bit of a problem early on when they were courting and even in their marriage because a lot of people including her husband felt that she was not emotionally expressive. but when she had given something a lot of thought, and she was clear about how she felt, then she would express herself. her letters, i might add, are beautiful.

this is a real self-motivated woman who realized that education was going to be the key to not only her success but her happiness. host: one of the very first decisions she had to make was about temperance and whether or not she and the president would follow the no-alcohol policy set by the hayes. will you tell us about that decision she made, the garfields made, and how significant it was politically? host: it ended up, true to what she said, not having a significant impact politically. but the threat was made to her by a woman who came and said, you must continue the no-alcohol policy of the hayeses. lucretia garfield said, thanks, but no thanks. i sort of feel that by my doing this one little thing, by not serving alcohol to my guests, it will take on enormous importance in the press and give it far more attention than it needs. she herself drank wine. then this woman threatens him,

well, this is going to affect the republican party. mrs. garfield said politely, i don't think it really is. host: this decision and the pressure for it came around the arrival of the official portrait of lucy hayes. we talked about this picture in the last program. there was a big to-do about the money being raised to do this portrait. guest: it was presented to the white house as a fait accompli. the white house wasn't going to deny it. nor did they think that it would be wise in terms of public relations to deny the portrait of their most immediate predecessor, the wife of their most immediate predecessor. the controversy as you know --

the percentage of money they were raising was being spent for the women's christian temperance union, other projects, so it had a slight taint of scandal. host: kathy robinson wants to know on twitter -- guest: there was very little time for lucretia garfield to actually become popular in the sense of functioning as a first lady the way we think it. the inauguration was march 4. by the end of april, she has contracted malaria.

by may, there is even a fear she might die in the white house. president garfield, just president for three months, writes of how he was unable to work with fear that this was going to be, that something would happen to his wife. it is only after he is shot in july that the press really begins to focus on lucretia garfield and she becomes, not just a national, but an international heroine for her behavior, calmness, and control as the president is attempting recuperation. host: the first call is robert watching us in chicago.

caller: good evening. i have one simple question. at the time garfield became president, his salary was $50,000. i was just wondering if mrs. garfield received the balance of the salary after he passed on. guest: yes, she did it. she also received his pension as a former member of congress, and she received, as susan mentioned, that large amount of public funds which were raised. she also received a presidential widow's pension. she had quite a bit of income

coming from several directions. host: next is a call from bill watching us in columbus, ohio. caller: i grew up in ohio where the garfield estate is. i passed it all the time, and i remember there being something on the property where he grew up. is it still there? guest: that i do not know. host: have you visited the house? caller: surprisingly, i never did. i live there. host: thanks for calling. sorry we couldn't answer your question. talking about her involvement in the selection of the cabinet, we said earlier that she was deeply involved and interested in partisan politics. very briefly, where did she develop that keen political sense and how did she use it to advise the president? guest: she started developing that once they moved to washington, dc when he was a member of congress. they lost their first child, a girl, their last born, a little boy. they had a lot of tough times. during his service in the civil

war, and when he came to washington, they were separated again. she was not going to put up with it. they decided to build a home in washington, and when she came to washington as a congressional wife, she began attending debates on capitol hill. she was there during the 1876 election dispute commission. her husband belonged to a literary society, but this was really when her political education began, during the congressional years. she also put room aside just for herself to paint and read in the house they built washington, but politics really became -- i wouldn't say it was her primary interest, but one of several primary interests. she was interested in everything.

the issue of the cabinet really circles around the controversial appointments of the secretary of state, james blaine. mrs. garfield is really the advocate for him. in fact, blaine writes that the knowledge that mrs. garfield wants in the cabinet is just as important to me as knowing that you, the president, want me in the cabinet. host: here's the quote exactly that says something about her influence, at least on the president. guest: absolutely. guest: absolutely. i would also say partisanship and these splinter things within parties, she was not a policy person. she was not somebody who was looking at policy and saying, you should support this or not support that. she was looking at members of the cabinet who were supposed to be running the government, not from a point of partisan political loyalty. there's that saying, keep your friends close, your enemies closer.

she was always looking at, how are these men going to potentially affect her husband's career? host: in the end, it seems they mixed the cabinet would have stalwarts and half the rest. guest: to a degree. i the time of cook -- by the time of garfield's assassination, there is a sense of remorse. this guy that shot him didn't openly as a political -- out of political partisanship. it was sort of horrifying to people. it also involved vice president

arthur, who was sort of representative of the wing at the assassin claimed to be associated with. host: we should be specific about this. the brief tenure of this presidency, 186 days in total. because of his lengthy decline we will tell that story later -- he was only functional for 121 days of that. this is a really brief time, not much time to establish opinions and in the public at large. david murodck is asking on twitter -- guest: absolutely. political in the sense -- we do not have a record of him coming to her with legislative decisions. host: you mentioned earlier that civil service reform was becoming an important issue. people who saw the movie

"lincoln" will see how patronage jobs were used to influence the president. what was the bubbling controversy over patronage and what was the reform people wanted to employ? guest: you have this, with the garfield assassination and death, you have this man coming to the white house. everybody was like, talk about a man who benefited from political patronage. chester alan arthur was never elected to any political office. he was the collector of the port of new york. he had a high position in new york state during the civil war, but it was all political patronage. roscoe conkling, the kingmaker of the stalwarts in new york, thanks, now the doors will open and we will get all the

political funds. president arthur says, no, i'm going to change my stripes, and we are going to be honest. chester arthur is the man who initiates the first civil service reforms. host: we learned that charles guiteau was always described as a frustrated office seeker. it was also tied into his allegiance with the other faction of the gop. his example of coming to the office, to the white house, and looking for jobs. how does that process work in the 1880s? guest: it is extraordinary to think that not even 20 years after the assassination of president lincoln that there could be such lax security at the white house. as you and many viewers know, the way the white house was set up at the time, there was the ground floor where there were no restored rooms, functioning as kitchens and places to keep china, and then there is the main floor. with the east room and green

room and red room. there are three hallways -- the hallway that is at the furthest end, where the family rooms were, in the middle section, and the east, and where the presidential office is. members of the public who had some vague connection from a senator or congressman, even if they did not, would be able to go up the stairs, check in with the doorkeeper, and wait in this hallway with spittoons, filled with cigar smoke, and hope to see the president secretary's pressing their case, usually with letters of introduction, claiming how great and wonderful they were and how they deserved some kind of minor federal position. we're not talking about people coming in there to be cabinet members or postmaster of this or paymaster of that. this is the kind of stuff a president was having to deal with while he was in his office, and the private secretaries were trying to do with it. guiteau was one of them.

he never got to press his case. he took it personally. host: clearly. the garfield strauch to the white house a big and happy family. on our next visit to their home in ohio, we will learn more about the garfield family. [video clip] >> this is the parlor. this is the way it looked during james garfield 1880 campaign. this was indeed both a formal parlor and a family room. james and lucretia spent a lot of time with their children. they had lost two children to infancy, arabella and edward.

those children died before the family moved here. their five children all had the benefit of having two very intelligent parents who strongly believed in education. all had the benefit of having two very intelligent parents who strongly believed in education. they felt education was an emancipating factor and that led to the key to success. we have molly's piano. in the family parlor, you see a lot of books. their children loved to read as well. some of their favorite authors

were dickens. and also william shakespeare. the family would sit by the fireplace and read to one another. that was one of their favorite activities. we are here in the family dining room. this is an interesting art piece. it won an award at the philadelphia centennial. mrs. garfield absolutely adored her time at the exhibition. she visited all of the tents. she was interested in the latest sciences and technologies of the day. she would write pages and pages of what she saw at the site. she was very intelligent, she loved the sciences. dinnertime was a very important time of the day. it was a time for them all to get together and talk about what they were doing. the garfields would use this time to educate the children. sometimes garfield would bring a book to the table, words that were often mispronounced and

quiz the children. made everything an educational experience. >> we learned about the kind of parents they were. tell the story of how they met. >> it is really quite fascinating, so many minor chords in it. this sense of equality to it. both of them saw each other as equals. lucretia garfield was the great granddaughter of a german immigrant. her parents were very religious. they were members of the

disciple of christ. her father was one of the founders of the eclectic institute. they believed in education of women. this is a fascinating phenomenon in ohio. you see this with all of the presidents' wives born and raised in ohio, equal education for women. lucretia garfield went through grade school, went to the eclectic institute. she studied the classics, she learned how to speak greek and latin and french and german. she studied science, biology, mathematics, history, philosophy. right away, if you can think of passion coming to the world of ideas, there was a passion struck between the two of them. james garfield came from a very poor family.

he never knew his father. he had been a canal boy, one of those young guys who would walk with the mules and pull the canal boats. everything they got, they greatly appreciated. she felt that education was the answer. he was her teacher at the eclectic institute. he went to williams college and they began a correspondence. that is where you begin -- it is the world of ideas that begin to separate them and bring them together. they argueed over ideas. one of those ideas with the fact there was another woman that she met at his graduation from williams college. that became a point of contention.

>> we have a sense of that with a letter that she wrote to james garfield about the relationship it was touch and go. >> what is really interesting is even though she very much loved him, she also looked out for herself. she is going to become a teacher and she determined that she would work and earn her own salary. she did not want to be a burden on her father. if she never got married, had to depend on anyone else. she not only becomes a teacher, but an interest of art is born

in her. she becomes an art teacher. this is all right before she gets married. he has another affair. he has a full-blown affair with a woman in new york. that nearly does in the marriage. >> stanley is watching us in ohio. what is your question? >> thank you for c-span. i really do like the presidential series. i visited the home here about six days ago and was really impressed with the furnishings in the home. did mrs. garfield furnish the home and build the library herself before the president died?

>> you know, yes. the interior, it was by her hand. most importantly, in answering your question, she had built onto it after his death that fireproof safe, which is part of the house, specifically to house and protect and preserve his letters and papers. she had been planning on writing a biography about him herself and she never lived to do that. later, those letters were published before being donated. i know in the show we have spoken about first ladies who burned papers. lucretia garfield had such a sense of history, she kept papers. even the ones that might prove embarrassing or personal that related to her marriage. she had a sense of herself and

her husband beyond their own lives as historical figures. >> let's hear james garfield's side of the story. he wrote to her -- they eventually do get married. the early days of their marriage, they were together for six weeks out of six years. his tenure in the civil war, followed by his election in congress. how does this marriage get to the point where they were functioning as a couple? >> the first child died. it was a little girl. she gave birth seven times. their last child died. i believe it was her physical presence.

what is fascinating about her in building this house, she created a room for herself. even though she was a devoted mother, there are a couple of letters where she says, it really gets on your nerves and it hurts your ego to think that your whole life after this education is being spent -- i cannot remember the word she uses. these little terrors are all that occupy your time. she began to develop her passion for art and painting, reading and writing.

she was quite an essayist, none of it for publication, but she had this room. they also joined the burns literary society. >> david is listening from chicago. >> president arthur burned his personal papers along with his white house papers. he got so little publicity on this action. why the difference between the two? i am looking forward to your book on mckinley this spring. >> thank you very much. president arthur, there are some

indications that it was his son who may have had more of a hand in that. arthur himself did feel very intensely about protecting his privacy. we will be talking a little bit about the arthurs. the issue was in terms of the hardings, the air of suspicion coming on the heels of the various political scandals. suggest some kind of malfeasance and that was not the case. >> back to the story of lucretia garfield, we learned how often her husband was away, leaving her with all of those children to raise on her own. she talks about the frustration of being the one who has to make the decisions. >> my darling, i cannot conceive of any possible reason why he should be such a trial to my life.

i cannot be patient with him anymore than i can submit to patience with some extreme physical torture. what he will ever become, i do not know. it is horrible to be a man, but the driving misery of being a woman is almost as bad. to be half civilized and obliged to spend the largest part of the time the victim of young barbarians keeps one in perpetual torment. >> somehow they made it all work and brought all of those children to the white house. we have a photograph of the family in the white house. it was a brief tenure. what was family life like in the white house? >> it was healthy, funny, humorous, there was no treacly sentiment. nobody was trying to use them as examples of good living. the two older boys were to be

going to college, but they were so close, they remained in the house and they studied there. there were two little boys who were kind of terrors. and a very beautiful openhearted daughter, who kept a little diary when she was in the white house. it was a poignant document because it talks about her father's assassination. the grandmother was also there, garfield's mother. garfield's mother came to live

there. she had raised her son to be president and even when mrs. garfield was ill, some speculation about who should be able to return as hostess, there were some suggestions that old mother garfield would come to the white house and take over. there are some suggestions that that idea did not go over too well. >> a lot of first ladies have a cause of their own. >> really interesting. there is one suggestion, and it

is written in a letter by one of the first people in the united states, a woman, who was both blind and deaf, who had achieved higher education and was in touch with mrs. garfield. there was some suggestion that mrs. garfield was interested in working with people who were sight impaired or hearing- impaired and developing educational outlets for them. but the one project we know about is going to the library of congress to do research on the white house. bringing a sense of history. the people at this point, 80 years the white house has been standing, and all of the families have lived there. now you are having one and two

and three generations worth of stories. she has a sense of history and the history of the house. a fascinating lists of artists and writers that she intended to invite to the white house. >> next is thomas in new york. >> hello, can you hear me? >> i am sorry, but you have to turn the tv volume down. we will move on to one quick video which talks about her artistic ability and things like the white house china. >> here in the family dining room, we have the family china, which is the china they used at the white house. i will take one out. it has the g monogram on it. the garfields were not rich people.

they brought their best stuff with them. they would have used this china at home and at the white house. this would have been their formal dinnerware. we have quite a collection here of the china that exists. it is a pretty impressive set, china painting was very popular. the very top row were hand- painted by lucretia garfield. mrs. garfield was very up on the latest trends and style of the day and she had a very good eye for art. she taught painting for a while. around the fireplace are hand- painted tiles.

she painted the two top corner tiles. james garfield said that his wife had faultless taste. she chose her furniture very carefully. >> did she have the opportunity to host any events? >> she hosted a regular reception and it is fascinating that at one of those, a man by the name of charles, who would shoot the president two months later, met her and recorded having a very pleasant conversation with her and liking her. of course, she gets malaria. there is fear that she might die. as she is recovering, it is thought she would do better at the jersey shore. he is waiting for him at the railroad station and sees him escorting mrs. garfield and he cannot bring himself to shoot the president.

>> that is in june. i want to pause for dramatic effect. >> the president is on his way to new jersey to join his wife and he is then going to go up to massachusetts. two of the boys are back in ohio with her grandmother. the president's daughter is with her mother. and he shoots the president. right away, he sees the wife of james blaine. he tells her to wire lucretia. she is overwhelmed at first and she almost faints. she has to be held up by men on either side of her. she composes herself and says to the doctor, what will it take to make sure he is cured?

and they say, a miracle. and she says, that is what will happen. >> this was july in washington, d.c. how does this affect the care? >> they know he has a bullet. there is a rudimentary air- conditioning system up from the ground floor. >> they do that specifically. >> ideas for inventions, but all kinds of kooky recipes and potions are being sent to mrs. garfield. mrs. garfield was fantastic in that she was able to compartmentalize and had the wherewithal to put out this word that everything was fine. this was a very important thing. >> they do that specifically.

>> ideas for inventions, but all kinds of kooky recipes and potions are being sent to mrs. garfield. mrs. garfield was fantastic in that she was able to compartmentalize and had the wherewithal to put out this word that everything was fine. this was a very important thing. she asked that everything written about him be sent to her for review. vice president arthur made no rumblings about assuming any presidential duties.

he respected her. you begin to see generated first in the country and then around the world the most amazing articles about this woman's courage, this woman's intelligence, her fortitude, how it was pervading the white house. cheering up the president. then there were the technology of the day, you saw images of mrs. garfield, her down in the kitchen preparing food for him. it was a little bit of hyperbole because it was a desperate situation. alexander graham bell offered to bring in a newfangled magnetic electromagnetic machine to find the bullet.

>> he was trying to trace a metal bullet. is it true president garfield died not from the gunshot but from bacteria from dirty instruments used by the doctor? >> the bullet was dirty. he might have eventually died. it is circumstantial situation. i will say he had one woman doctor. after the federal government paid the doctors, they paid the woman doctor half the amount and mrs. garfield wrote a letter and was outraged. the woman doctor received the same amount as the male doctors.

>> thank you, c-span, for the program. during that timeframe, would they have known the rockefellers and the vanderbilts? >> chester arthur and his wife did. i would not doubt that she would've had contact with them. >> thank you. was there a big age difference between the president and mrs. garfield? >> i do not recall. i think it was five years or less. >> the president was shot again july 2 and he lingered until september. the decision was made to move him to the jersey shore.

>> the very place he had been headed to see her. that is where he dies, in her presence. she gets a letter from julia tyler. i wanted to emphasize that -- a sorority of presidential spouses. >> the funeral. set the stage for this victorian-era funeral.

>> what says it all is the way the white house looked. mrs. garfield was strong throughout. she did not break down, unlike mary lincoln, who was unable to emotionally withstand the public display of this. mrs. garfield began designing and working with the ideas of what his tomb would be like in ohio. >> jacqueline kennedy took that model and became very much involved in the planning of the funeral process.

>> the legacy. lucretia garfield, we mentioned the papers she was preserving. she approved statues. she was really hands-on whenever it had anything to do with them. >> how did the children react to their father's assassination? >> i do not remember the ages and they were not all there when he died. two of the boys were young. there were two other boys, college-age. >> the amazing thing is that there is a fund drive for the

garfield family. somewhere between $350 and $360,000 raised for the family. >> extraordinary. >> were people sending money from all over the place? >> she really captured people's imaginations. it was a brief moment in our history. it was so different from the way people reacted to mary lincoln. because of mrs. garfield's being awarded almost immediately by congress a presidential widow's pension of $5,000 a year, that also benefited the other surviving presidential widows.

true to form, mrs. lincoln's reaction was, i am sure somebody is going to put the kibosh on that and i will not ever get my money. julia tyler wrote an anonymous letter to the press, this is wonderful, but i think it should be double that amount. >> thank you for the series. we were watching cbs one morning. who was the only president buried aboveground? they said garfield. we took the car and we drove up there. there is his monument. it has steel bars. it has the american flag draped

over it. a beautiful bronze statue upstairs, it is a beautiful place. >> i do not know if he is the only president buried aboveground. thank you for the recommendation. we are trying to interest people we are trying to interest people in learning more about american history. another video. this is returning to the ohio home of the garfields. we will learn how she began to preserve her husband's memory. >> after james garfield's death, she started to make her life and her family's life again in this house and on this property. she started to make a lot of changes to the property. she stte