>> amanda terkel on what is shaping modern journalism, sunday night at 8:00 on c-span q&a. >> season two of verse ladies, influence and image, begins september 9 with a look at the life of edith roosevelt. all this month, we are showing encore presentations of season one. each eastern, programs on every first lady from arthur working to and. tonight, -- martha washington. tonight we focus on frances cleveland. >> frances cleveland was a celebrity first later unlike any before her.and the mass production of her image to sell a bride of goods by the consumer industry angered her and her

husband, president grover cleveland. to help us understand the sensation sweeping the country, we begin our story inside 1600 pennsylvania avenue. for the first and only time in our countries history. watching frances cleveland into instant celebrity.>> this is the modern white house. it is the same basic layout as it would have been on june 2. when president grover cleveland and his bride to be came down what was then about large staircase to the family quarters at the west end of this corridor. they would have proceeded on the hallway, the music started up at the east side behind us here, where the united states marine band was assembled. the famous john philip sousa played the wedding march as the happy couple can down the hallway.-- came down the

hallway. they would have passed through these doors, these very same mahogany doors.they would have come into the room, a different chandelier here, they would have stood under the chandelier. said their vows. an enormous amount of flowers in the room brought from the white house conservatory. a large table where the sofa is now is a stream of potted plants and potted plants underneath. flowers were hung suspended from the moldings. the mantelpiece was covered with flowers. the fireplace was full of red begonias.to give a feeling of flames and the fire. it was a very brief ceremony, 7:00 p.m. an evening ceremony. the assembled throng just went down to the eastern promenade, for the bride probably to show off her dress. they went down that same hallway we were just in, to a wedding dinner in the state dining room.

♪ >> those are the strains of in 1890's recording of john philip sousa in the marine corps band playing the wedding march they performed at the white house nuptials of francis and grover cleveland. good evening and welcome. tonight, the story of francis.-- frances cleveland, the youngest first lady to ever serve in that role. meet our guest for the evening. the author of a biography on let's start with the press and the coverage. without that there would be no celebrity. the press corps, describe what it was like for the nation in the 1880's and how this business of covering presidents was coming into its own. >> think about the 1880's, it is probably what i would call the age of newspapers. every city had multiple newspapers and every one of those was looking for a way to make money.

the best way was to get the best story. whoever could find out where frances was saying, what she was wearing, what she was doing, what she looked like, that would help sell papers. it did not hurt that they made a little bit of it up. >> it was not quite a secret by the time june 2 came across.you say the word was beginning to leak out and investigations into who she might be and what the circumstances could be. they were really priming. >> absolutely. from the time cleveland came into office in 1885, there was all this speculation about who could possibly be his bride. it would waver between some of the women who would help his sister and her receptions at the white house, and then this competition in the mind of the public between whether or not it was francis or her mother, emma. people were convinced it was not

frances, she was way too young.right about this time, they used to call it decoration day, cleveland sent out the wedding invitations. at the decoration day parade in new york city, frances was introduced to the public. >> the president was not very we have one ofess. many quotations about the ways that he described them. here is one way you would refer to them ghouls of the press.the view of the press as an enemy was something he picked up on. he said i begin to the fear of estimates of newspaper correspondents will find its way to our retreat and her presence will increase this probability. this is about their honeymoon. he had some naive concept that they would be able to sneak away

for a honeymoon on their own.>> he wrote when they were going at the end of the summer. she thought that he had been able to outsmart press, because they had arranged for a special two-car train, on a side rail, and they figured they could get off to an area around maryland on some privately owned property. there was a telegraph agent who was bribed and revealed what the destination of the trade was.-- train was. because it was pouring rain that night, when they got the train station, they had to take a carriage from the station to to their actual honeymoon location, the carriage got bogged down in the mud which gave the press even more time. they were staked out there by the time they got there. >> it gave rise to a new term -- keyhole journalism. >> and another term, which was associated with joseph pulitzer, looking in the keyhole to see if you could see what was going on in their private lives. >> in your book, i read that they finally try to concede and gave an interview during a honeymoon.

how does that work to keep the interest down a little bit? >> he had what he called the respectable papers, then the not respectable papers. i assume the respectable papers were those whose views coincided. he invited reporters from the so-called respectable papers to come into the cabin where he and frances were staying. they had stacked telegrams from well-wishers on the table. they shared some of those. very nicely staged, very choreographed. they allowed the press to see some of these papers, allow them to see him and her engaged to each other. it was their way of saying, now can you leave us alone? >> not only the age of news papers, but the beginning of the age of consumer branding. as we said in our introduction, there was widespread use by the president and first lady's image image to sell all kinds of products.

that is how you first learned of this young first lady. looking back at the history of branding in america. if you are to use the president's image today, you would quickly get calls from lawyers about doing that. were there any rules whatsoever about the use of the first couples? >> no, and that is why these companies get away with it. several supporters of cleveland in congress were trying to get that type of legislation passed, to not use their image without the way he would veto legislation was to edit it. he had enough detractors that even though they liked frances, they do not want to give them anything he wanted. they could not get these laws passed. >> here is a bit of frances cleveland she had about her frustration.

where is this from? >> that was a letter she wrote to the editor of country magazine. he had run an ad for this company. she had become friends and asked him to arrange for that to happen. >> we have to explain how this 49-year-old president and the 21-year-old ride ever became a couple. tell us the story of grover and frances cleveland. >> grover was law partners and friends with frances's father. theveland supposedly gave him first the baby carriage and became a fixture in the house. as she grew up, she started to call him uncle cleve. her father was tragically killed when she was 11 in a carriage accident. he was not a good money manager, some people who knew more about

the family history said he was a he owed moreue. money than he had in his the state. -- estate. cleveland stepped in as executor and money manager to help handle the affairs and work with emma nces's education. >> i read all of these short biographies, and it tells a story that he became interested after getting into the white house on a visit from the mother and daughter, but your tale goes back further. all the time that she was in college, he was sending loads of flowers to her and writing letters constantly. did he have his eye on her for quite a while? >> i think he did. one thing that is interesting, people know little of her history. her alma mater will tell her about the special train them-- that would come so he could come

visit her. he did write her letters and send flowers. she also accompanied him on campaign appearances when he ran for governor of new york. this is definitely well three--- pre-white house years. >> her family was receptive of this relationship. what was the public reception about the age difference? >> you had some language that call them beauty and the beast, because they did not like him and he was portly, not necessarily the handsomest man in the world. she was an absolute stunner. dark hair, blue eyes, tall, very good-looking. there were people that thought there was something strange about it, but they fell immediately in love with her. they kind of accepted him as part of the package. >> gary robinson on twitter -- asking how they met and asks this question -- you have spentim?

a lot of time reading her correspondence. can you answer that question? >> i think she started out as most people do, thinking the marriage was romantic. but the age difference was significant.over time it matured into a deep caring. i would say it was a respectful and caring kind of love. >> grover cleveland had some very specific views of women in society and what he wanted from a wife. >> yes. >> would you explain it? >> in that time, there was still this attitude of spheres of influence where women were supposed to stay pure and take care of the home and children. that is exactly where he wanted frances to be. he did not want her pretty little head upset with notions about being first lady or the demands of being in the white house or the wife of a president. he did not think that women

should vote or work outside the home. >> this program, this series if you have been watching along the way, it is interactive. there are a lot of ways to do that. you can send us a question on facebook. there is already a chat going on for a little while about frances cleveland. you can also find our facebook page and be part of that. you can send us a tweet with the #firstladies. the good old fashion way, can make the phone call. here are the phone numbers. we will be working your questions in throughout our 90 minutes on frances cleveland. also something special for you, an opportunity to go inside the smithsonian's collection. you will meet lisa, the first

lady's curator at the smithsonian, to go behind the scenes a look at some of the frances cleveland items they have in storage here. not open to the public. we will be taking you for the first of several looks at the smithsonian collection right now. >> we are here at the political history storage room. the collection is too fast to be -- vast to be on display at one time. objects not currently on the floor are stored in here. at any point, they can be used for exhibition or lend to another institution. this is her wedding dress. frances cleveland was an incredibly popular bride. she married the president in a white house ceremony, the only white house ceremony for a first lady. the bodice, filled in with a neck piece. this goes around it and creates a softening effect. it was a longsleeved dress.

and this wonderful long train on the underside, trimmed in lace. even the underside of his clothes you don't see had this beautiful trimmed. and this sweeping train. the collection contains more than clothing. at their wedding, we have public and personal pieces. one of my favorite things in the entire collection, this cake box. each of the guests at the wedding were given a satin covered box, painted with the bride and groom initials, to hold a piece of wedding cake. before the wedding, grover and frances signed a card for every cake box. inside, wrapped in lace. there would have been a piece of cake. this particular cake box was given to the minister who performed the wedding. byron sunderland. the minister at the first

presbyterian church in testament , d.c. to the public fascination of frances cleveland. this is a piece of sheet music, the cleveland's wedding march, composed in honor of the wedding, it was not the wedding march played at the wedding. you can see, it is decorated with pictures of mr. and mrs. cleveland. these are the images of the cleveland's together that will be part of popular culture for the next 12 years. >> we are back to our set here. i want to introduce our second guest for the evening, returning from an earlier first ladies program. a historian for colonial williamsburg, steeped in first lady's history. welcome to the conversation. let us talk about the election. anybody who thinks there is hard knuckle politics today, look at the election of 1884 that brought grover cleveland into the white house.

pretty rough stuff going on.what was it like? >> politics in the 1880's is brutal. we think about earlier elections where they are taking swings at each other like jefferson and adams.maybe in the 1800 election. politics in the 1880's, you ar lkeddy take about newspapers, it is personal, it is visceral and because of the way political parties have developed, they are able to take these swipes at each other that really we would find surprising today. in 1884, all of these things would come out in the 1884 election. two candidates cannot be more different from each other. grover cleveland on the one hand who probably has very little political experience of this sort. he was mayor of buffalo in 1881. elected governor of new york in 1882. two years later, he is the democratic nominee for president.

that is all the major political experience that he has. he has developed a reputation of being honest and trustworthy and a reformer. on the other hand, you have got a guy named john blaine, the continental lawyer from maine. if anything, he has too much political experience. he has been speaker of the house, a senator from maine, one of the major figures in the republican party. he has a reputation for probably having private virtue, a good family man, but also tainted by public corruption and an inside the beltway guy. the whole campaign of 1884 ends up revolving around these things. personal politics. the greatest strength of grover cleveland, the greatest opportunity that the democrats had, is the reputation of cleveland as being a man of

public virtue man as any good political operative. they went straight after probably his most weak points, the illegitimate child. >> the refrain for anybody who studied history, ma, ma, where's your pa? gone to the white house, ha ha ha.what was the story? >> a woman gave birth to an illegitimate child in buffalo, new york. given the way buffalo was at that time, a lot of breweries and immigrants and massive growth, an illegitimate child was not all that unusual. maria named him oscar. cleveland. he stepped up to the plate and said he would take responsibility for her and the maria.

had problems with alcohol and was not taking care of him. an opportunity developed for him to place the child in the home of the family, mr. and mrs. james king. this young man started his life as oscar cleveland became james king junior. it was all pretty quiet, until they uncover the dirt and found out that cleveland had assumed responsibility for this child, therefore the assumption that he also was father of the child. there were some efforts to cover it up initially. then the famous line that cleveland says is, tell the >> what do we learn about cleveland from this? >> he understands the virtue of making a story a nonstory. admit to it and move on. that is sort of how it works . stories go back and forth about why he does it.

either he is telling the truth and it is his child, all evidence, the scant evidence that we have is that there is a possibility it is his child. also the possibility it is the child of frances's father. the other part is to admit to it, make it a nonstory, say that it is true and move onto let us next. that is what happened in essence. >> how did frances's family react to this? it affected uncle cleve, the man she was eventually betrothed to. at the same time it could have what was father's child? their reaction? >> the reaction was interesting, considering as we have been talking about cleveland was very obviously courting frances at it's 1884..

she has been getting lots of flowers and going amounts of campaign trips. apparently there is a story where one of her classmates came into her dorm room and happened to see a picture of cleveland of the desk and wanted to know who it was. frances referred to him at that point as the mayor of buffalo. i don't know why it wasn't the governor of new york. her comment was a man more sinned against than sinning. emma wrote a letter to frances saying she hated to see cleveland going through all this trouble with this boy. there is never any discussion in those letters about who they thought the father was. >> we will take some calls and come back and talk about the cleveland administration and its isnificance in history.al from maryland, you are on. >> thank you, first of all i have been a viewer of c-span from almost the beginning. you do a wonderful job across the board. i live in allegheny county, maryland. one county east of garrett county, which is where the cleveland's honeymooned.

several years ago i had to do some research on the presidents who visited this area, and i dug out my notes on the honeymoon of grover cleveland and frances. i wrote down a few notes on want to share with you. after the white house ceremony, apparently late that night or the next morning, they boarded a private railroad car and arrived in deer park, maryland, which is in present-day garrett county. they honeymooned here for about six days stayed at what is now known at the cleveland'scottage. the press followed them up from washington and railroad detectives had to surround their honeymoon cottage so reporters would not bother them. they climbed trees, they tried to spy on the couple using

binoculars, they would bribe the servants to try and get a jury of what they were eating, where they were going. according to accounts, they went trout fishing several times in a stream known as deep creek. they caught almost 50 trout. they attended church together in downtown oakland, that has since been known as the church of the presidents. on their departure back to washington, a left from the deer park railroad station, it was then that the president met with reporters and some of the locals. he said their honeymoon exceeded their expectations. they never slept better. the air and temperature were delicious and they could not have found a more suitable retreat have a searched the entire united states. >> let's jump in. you have added some details to the story from the beginning and we thank you for that area-- that. anything more to add to his description of their enjoyment? >> he has done good research.

that lines up with everything i have discovered, too. >> is the cottage still around? >> that i don't know. >> next up is joseph in indiana. >> excellent series. frances was always concerned about grover's weight. is there anything in research that she actually tried to ge him to lose weight? >> she makes some comments -- they got a place outside of what is now part of the cleveland washington, d.c., oakfield. they were the first president to purchase a private residence to have someplace to go besides living in the white house. frances talks about trying to .et him to walk around the farm

in a nted him to dress way that that did not accentuate his weight. >> not his size as much as how he looked.next up is paula. >> i have a question about the wedding dress. i am assuming it is white in color? >> it looked the more dark cream was that it's original color? >> i think cream was the correct with age.as yellowed >> any other questions? >> because of the age difference, if that would take place today, would we call her a gold digger in today's society? for marrying somebody was such a big age difference? >> who would be criticized, he or she? as he could've been criticized robbing the cradle.

it kind of goes both ways. >> it is interesting to speculate what the media would do. and his pursuit in years beforehand. in this age when nothing seems to be secret for a long time. >> what we know now about his involvement with her from her birth, she bought her first baby carriage. he knew her her entire life. there would be people who would think this was a little creepy. moving on, modern people think about donald trump in these kind of may-december relationships.>> higugh hefner. >> depending on what your moral basis is for these relationships, i think you will get into a similar conversation. >> to the serious politics of the age, you told us the grover cleveland successfully ended a24 year gop run at

holding the white house. big issues of the time for the gold and silver standard, paris tariffs and corruption. what was his approach to the presidency? >> he was exceptionally strong. not to say that he was a great constitutional thinker. he was no james madison. he did have a very clear idea about what the role of the presidency was and the role of the federal government was. he thought his role as president was to be the guardian of the federal government and do what he had done as governor of new york, to go ahead and make sure that congress was not doing anything that would screw the country up. they were not going to engage in

unnecessary social policy, unnecessary economic policy, he was there to keep them honest and do what he had done in these other positions and reform the broader system of confidence that he thought it undermined. >> he used the veto 304 times. >> more than that. if you include pocket vetoes. 414 in his first term, which is more than all presidential theses combined before him. are built like soldiers pensions. he thinks this is just a way for guys in congress to the cable to curry some favor among their veends.he is the veto -- toing these things left and right. he has no problem in doing that. he has no real understanding,

given his experience, of how the legislative process works. he is not really about compromising with congress. he is not interested in having discussions about these issues. he cares about health reform, making sure that tariffs are being lowered, maintaining the gold standard, that is a sounder economic policy. outside of that, he wants congress to stay quiet. >> the sad part about that, we had reached a point in our economy where tarriff reform is important because we still had tariffs that were way too high and it was hurting us internationally. probably some of the lack of that reform is hard the reason part of the reason that the depression starting that made his second term so dismal. partly because they could not get tariff reform in place.he was not the negotiator. he did not know how to get

things open. he burned the midnight oil. we this might be self-evident. often saw them practicing hosting dinners to bring warring factions together under one roof. he had an acrimonious senate. did they use the white house to bring together any of the forces thisompromise?>> less in than previous white houses. like we said, one of his issues she attends aform. senate debate. she is sitting in on the gallery. it is our direct evidence of her political influence.other than that, they are using the white house for very different kinds of things. she is able to improve his standing in d.c. by standing he has a reputation

of liking poker, he likes hanging out with his friends. he likes smoking. drinking bourbon. she socializes them.which gives him some political cache. but then when you're talking about the white house being used in the ways we've talked about, she is saying things like being involved in copyright legislation, focusing on in ordertual property. to protect arts and authors. she holds a a reception at the white house for authors to bring attention to intellectual to pick up on that, part of the reason why you do not see it is because cleveland would not have had it. he did not want her engaged.

didn't want to use her in that way or take advantage of what she probably could've done for him. if he had utilized her skill set, how first ladies have exercised before. >> enormous public interest on this young first lady that people were very excited about having in the white house. he had a great tool at his disposal. >> elected not to use it. everybody knew it except for him. their editorials about this is his card to play. he is not going to play.he is going to veto as much legislation as possible.

which continues to undermine his political capacity. >> you write about the fact that he has strong opinions by the roles of women.was this framing his decision not to use her as a political chip? >> as part of his view that he didn't want her involved in anything political. even those things that he got involved with, which were not necessarily political,, you see in her letters that he is angry with her because of how much time she is spending with his-- these organizations and not involved with things that she thinks she should be involved with.mainly home and taking care of him. the age ofow into photography and we are able to show you images. and many more illustrations done by the media. this is also the first time in the series that we have video of one of the first ladies.this is from later in her life.

we thought it would be interesting to show you what the first lady looks like later on in life. we're going to to watch that as we listen to a phone call.this is from matthew in new jersey. you are on. i am calling from the birthplace of grover cleveland. we had a memorial day parade. >> how did you get the role of grover cleveland? >> they talked me into it. >> howalked them into it. is your shape compared to the president? >> i guess he was a little bit heavier.i think he was a little bit shorter. >> he said he was five foot tall and four foot wide.

>> what is a question you have for guest tonight? >> there was the question about he was lucky because garfield and mckinley were assassinated. it was a tough time to be a president. i just find them interesting. i'm proud of the democrats. he was the only democrat at the i focused on that a little bit. over 50 years, there was one democrat. >> thank you. we talked about frances while she was not being used to b politically. she was influenced and image. one was carefully watching the united states. we're going to its return to the smithsonian and look the dresses she chose, and learn how she might have affected style in the country.

>> the fascination with frances cleveland really extended to her clothes. she was a fashion icon. women emulated her hairstyle. she popularized everything she had and did. this is a dress from the second administration. this is the inaugural gown. this was her down from 1893.it stayed in her family and became the family wedding dress. the bottom of the dress is exactly the same. the top has been remade. it originally had a satin top with a large sleeve with bows on the shoulders. lace was used to create new bodice to make it more modern. this was used by her granddaughters. >> a wedding dress and inaugural at some of herk other close. -- clothes.

even her everyday was very stylish. a lot of them look like something you could wear now. this is a jacket. black with beautiful velvet. it is definitely day wear. this is an evening piece. it would more ornate. have had a matching skirt. daytime vest. this would have a matching collar. you can wear this with ashirt and skirt. it is 100 years old now. one of the earlier dresses, this

dress was on display before even that.we change them around. this was a reception dress she would've worn during the second administration.the 1890's are when sleeves become larger. this is a beautiful skirt and bodice. a matching evening gown. large puffed sleeves.trimmed in lace and butterflies. a description at the time talks looking asbutterflies. if they would alight from her shoulders. you can see the damage that light will do.this is why we rotate them. velvet was originally this colo. over the years of display it has faded. >> i'm curious about how this 21-year-old, whose family finances were rather insecure,

developed this taste and style. >> sometimes it is just in eight -- innate. she seemed to have had it. there was suggestion that her grandfather, who had lost his adult children, was interested in taking care of his grandchildren, provided money to pay for her. cleveland was not as wealthy as many presidents who own large amounts of land. he was not a poor man, either. one she married him, there was money to purchase nice clothing. she set some trends. the one she is the most famous for, getting rid of the bustle. it was a wire contraption that was on the back of your dress. it had gone out of fashion.

a french couture decided to he could sell more fabric because you needed it to drape over this metal contraption. it was from the waist and over the hips. it was a slow-moving washington. reporters were looking for a story. they would say let's say she has quit wearing a bustle.the public believed it. the ladies had all their dresses remade.when she came back and went shopping, she asked for a bustle, and they said we heard that you have quit wearing them. since we have heard that, everyone has quit asking for them. but if you won't want, we will get one for you. she just looked at her and said, if they say that i stopped wearing a bustle, i guess i have to stop wearing a bustle.

she all her clothes remade. >> i think is a remarkable reflection of exactly how important all that coverage is. they can use the extra ones as catchers masks.she is a baseball fan. >> we should make the point that women's dress reform was very political, because the clothing women were wearing was restrictive and there was a movement to release woman from these restrictive clothing. it was a battle of the conservatives view versus the liberal view. did she get involved in this at all? >> she didn't get involved in it directly. it is interesting. you look at photographs at her, she is stressed very casually.-- dressed very casually. she is still wearing a dress.

she's in a bathing costume. she is wearing what we would describe as a simple shift. away from the corsets, the ornamentation.when she was in public, she was going to dress in a way she thought the public would expect her to look. >> hello. i am just calling to say that my husband and i own the house that the cleveland's rented for two summers in marion. they came to marion because richard watson gilder had given a talk at wells college and had met mrs. cleveland. she her husband was under a lot of stress. when they found out that there was good fishing off ofmarion, they came during the summer in between his two terms, and they also have the only child that was born in the white house. their oldest daughter was supposed to have been named after her.

there next daughter was named after marion because they loved living here so much. they also had receptions here and were very accessible to the people of marion. the people here are very fond of the memories of the cleveland's. >> what is the house like today? is is still in the style of the time? >> it has been added onto. they lived in it when it was more like a farmhouse. i actually have quite a few photographs of them sitting on the porch. later on, it was made into a much larger house of the shingle it was very popular for houses on the water. so it changed. actually, grover cleveland

wanted to buy this house. the owner named a high price, so he decided he was a frugal man and decided not to buy it and went down to born and bought a house there. >> you may be getting phone calls from our guests here to see those photographs. andnk you for your call. sharing your own personal connection. we're going to quickly run out of time on this important term of the cleveland's. how involved was she at all in any of the aspects of his presidency? >> the biggest issue probably the time was the copyright that she was involved in. >> i think you are right in she isof her influence. going far beyond just the kind of parlor politics of having people over and talking to that retail politics. she is doing things like going

to rallies to support this she would go there to make sure she was being associated with this legislation. >> there is a connection between what was going on in marion, massachusetts, and the support of the copyright. that was where the owner of sentry magazine and his wife, and artists, had salons. that is how frances met joseph jefferson and mark twain, and well-known writers of that time. that is why she got involved in that. she became very supportive of the copyright. i guess we should tell your viewers that the issue of the copyright is a part of the tariff issue.

american writers were not able to get royalties if their works were sold abroad. what the effort was was to get these international protections for american authors so they would be able to get their royalties when their works were sold internationally. >> the major political issues of the day, the huge debate over the gold standard versus replacing it with something that was based on silver, ward-- or legislation regarding the native american lands and assimilation that any kind of legislation dealing with the massive increase of immigration she is not involved in any of that to any extent. there is one particular story during the first term in 1887. the new york fire department asks her to go

and come up to be a part of a public event. she writes back saying that she is not going to attend. it is her view of the role of first lady to not engage in these kinds of public ceremonies without the presence of her husband. the head of the fire department gets ticked off about this and writes the president.he responds directly to him saying i agree with her decision, however it is up to her. if this is her concept of what the role of a first lady is, i support it. am not exactly sure that was her decision. [laughter] >> did they travel during the first term?

>> they had a very successful western and southern tour. this was the first time since the end of the civil war where a president embarked on this theynsive tour of the south. were told to get some bodyguards, to get some protection. she writes letters saying it is been a wonderful and terrific tour. the crowds were enormous. >> the people of st. louis make coins with her image on her to hand out. >> we are up to the 1880s. grover cleveland stands for reelection against benjamin wereson.what the issues? >> the biggest issue at this point is the economy starting to teeter.

the major part of the issue is really about making sure that so they can shift the monetary standard to silver, they are republicans were going to get back into the white house to do that you have to get back in new york. benjamin harrison ends up being this compromised candidate. he was a cold fish the political cartoonists having their way they him. depicted him in this huge overcoat and old-fashioned hat to suggest he is wearing his grandfather's clothes. his grandfather was a former president. he is the sort of person writing -- riding that connection into white house.

but the important thing about the election in terms of the understanding of it, two things. it is the first of the big-money elections. this makes campaign finance history. the republicans put $3 million into the race and they forget about the popular vote. they want to focus on winning new york and indiana. $3 million is enormous. more than what has gone into an election up to that point. then there is the issue about what are you going to do about grover cleveland's greatest card.a republican one set of the time it will be -- it is one thing to go after grover cleveland. it is another thing to go after both. what they do is, we are back into this bareknuckle time of politics in which the

republicans bring up the story that he is abusing frances. >> rumors of spousal abuse during this campaign are brought true or untrue? >> i'm convinced it is untrue. she loved to go to the theater. grover love to veto legislation. he didn't always go with her. a lot of times she went with a member of congress or someone who was on the white house staff. the story is that a supporter from congress took her to a play, came back, had a nice chat with the president, but that is allegedly when he beat her and beat her mother.

nothing was said initially. there was a minister for massachusetts who started saying these vile things from the pulpit. much like the situation with the whatgitimate child, kind of we would call getting out in front of the story, frances writes a letter that is sent to the papers. she is not supposed to be political. she supposed to stay in her sphere. this letter goes out over her signature that says i wish that all of the women of this country were as fortunate as i too have a kind and caring husband. here is the interesting thing about that. even though it is her signature, if younot her handwriting. look to the actual letter, it is not her handwriting. it was written by daniel mach, >> it was of staff. crafted within the administration.

>> there are these contradictions with grover cleveland. the way the democrats useher during the election obviously you've got to tamper down this particular issue. this election is in fact the one in which the image of the first lady is employed in political ways more than any other election in american history. her image on one particular camping piece in 1856.lucy was on a -- lucy hayes poster. the democratic party is rolling out frances cleveland. >> when she left the white house, she told the butler she would be back in four years. how was she confident that she here is herelected?

quotation, i want you to take good care of the house. i want to find everything just as it is when we come back for years from today. >> it sounds confident. to be honest with you, the moment they hit new york, she started to campaign for him. >> part of it is that he didn't he wonhe 1880 election. the popular vote. he actually outpaced harrison by tens of thousands of votes. but he was swamped in the electoral system. he's the only president other than fdr to win more than two elections. >> the republicans were ahead of the democrats in doing this electoral college strategy. it worked for them. >> absolutely. >> we have another smithsonian talk about the political partner and the roles that it late in the election that year.

>> frances cleveland is so popular. people are imitating her clothes.her hairstyle. they are wanting a piece of frances for themselves. they thought she was someone we know. pictures of the first lady became extremely popular.you can purchase your own picture of mrs. cleveland to have in your home. based on these pictures, advertisers and manufacturers make an array of souvenirs. you can purchase and have mrs. cleveland in your house, in your home. you can purchase the small painted glass portrait. you can have plates. mrs. cleveland can convince you this is theoduct. first couple together. she is used in campaigns. while we have grover cleveland running for president, we also have mrs. cleveland running for first lady. this is a set of campaign

playing cards were you are electing the president, the vice president, and the first lady. this is frances cleveland and the second administration. it looks little different.she is not the young ingenue. she is a confident matron. this is a pretty piece you could notice theur home. same image is used in this ribbon. you can have a souvenir from the mentoring -- commemorating their visit to the fair. >> so they are moving to new york. are they going to new york for their next stop? >> it was probably a good place for frances with her interest in the arts, and cleveland will -- got a job there.

he worked for a law firm. the attorney for jpmorgan, and several other extremely well- known and financially well-off he wasfluential people. considered at council. he wasn't actually practicing law at the practicing attorney as much as overseeing activities within the law firm. >> the suggestion was it was the way to reclaim the white house. >> they went right back into it. the fact of him winning the popular vote continues the democrats into thinking they're going to recapture new york. there are some adjustments they can do in order to get back into the white house.cleveland is going to be the candidate. what are the kind of steps they really need to take to shore up the electoral vote so

they can get right back there? >> she gives birth to the couple's first child. there are a number of questions. wondering about the baby ruth candy bar.what is the story? >> the story there is that the first candy company about the candy bar. we should say that ruth cleveland tragically died in 1904. she would have been about 12.5 outs old.the candy bar came in 1909. there have been a lot of songs, images, just as they used mr. and mrs. cleveland. they used baby ruth in the 1892 so the phrase had been out there and the candy company named the candy bar for her. >> you referenced her interest as a kindergarten movement. it was a big social movement in designedtry at the time.

to do what? >> it was designed to help americanize immigrant children and their mothers. it was the idea of being able to put children into school settings in which could teaches them. american patriotism. it was also a tool with which as the children were learning, the mothers would warrant -- learn with them. the mothers would take that knowledge with them and bring it >> weto the children. should say about immigration, it was a critical issue. >> it is extraordinary. it is the greatest period of mass immigration in america. in terms of percentage of the population. its 500,000 people coming in every year. they are german. they are irish. there are catholics. oney are eastern europeans.

the west coast, a lot of people coming from china. the demographic change that the american population is going through in this major movement from a mainly a growing population to one that is based in the cities and is focused more on manufacturing. it is having a major impact on and how you aree. relating to it and there's the question about how do you assimilate these immigrants. how do you deal with temperance as a political issue? you have people who enjoy a pint or two at the end of the day. these kinds of issues that are coming up are the kind of things reallyre in her sphere. trying to tackle head on, especially when you're talking about what is going on in bigger

cities like new york. what do you do for the people will have the least resources among them. kindergarten was a way to get at that. >> she remained interested in kindergarten throughout her life. is that true? >> she did. she had a kindergarten for ruth. daniel lamotte was back as the chief of staff. both men had children about the same age. there was a kindergarten in the white house. frances was active in higher education. she founded douglas college. she was very active with their alma mater. >> the 1892 election was a rematch between benjamin harrison and grover cleveland. the first lady, mrs. harrison, isst died before the election. that correct? how did that effect the

election? >> he was never terribly interested in campaigning. it does put a little bit of an impact. it impacted him negatively. the major gusto. problem is not what is going on ,ith harrison but harrison suffered major defeats during his presidency. the economy was going into a tank. there was not anything that he could do about it. the republican party was splintering. his secretary of state resigned right before the end of the presidency. he wanted to see if he could get one last bite at the nomination republicans are

splintering among themselves. the democrats are finding a better recipe to coalesce. in the 1892 election, it was the backdrop. the crumbling economy and the crumbling republican party. >> in 1892, frances' prediction comes true. there was economic uncertainty in the country. president cleveland returned to office. soon after was one of the most interesting presidential stories. he is the only president to serve two nonconsecutive terms. he gets two numbers in the lineup. soon after, they discovered a spot in his mouth. he was a cigar smoker. it leads to an interesting story in which frances cleveland was involved.

>> he found a spot and he called his doctor because the spot bothered him. they decided that it was probably cancerous. esther was born in the white house. they went to a rental house that they had been renovating in the cleveland park section. all of a sudden, there was an announcement in the paper that they changed their plans. mrs. cleveland wanted to take her baby to their place in massachusetts. so ruth could enjoy the wind and breeze. frances goes on a yacht with her friends. the yacht comes back and grover cleveland gets on it.

in the meantime, to dispel some rumors, they said that he was on a diet program. they said he was on the 1890s version of weight watchers. they perform the surgery on the yacht. he is gone for a month on the yacht. the press starts to say, what is going on, mr. president? frances says, he's just having a good time fishing. he needs the rest. he needs this time away. finally, he arrives. he has to go back for a final the press is looking. a reporter finally breaks the story. the administration, unfortunately, decided to discredit him.

and wrote to joseph jefferson said, he had a peach, when you think a child would have more sense than that? >> were worried about infection. >> absolutely. >> this is an incredible tale. the president is off the coast of the united states being operated on for cancer surgery. he had his entire upper jaw removed. he is fitted with prosthesis. and, he is hidden from the press. >> daniel lamont and frances said that he was just off on a fishing trip. they tried to cover every step that they could. >> there are fears that the economy would tank further. >> this is the issue. there are bigger policy matter

at stake, in terms of the american economy. the markets are very jittery. the vice president, who was the grandfather of adelaide stevenson, was not someone who is seen as being reliable. cleveland and his supporters believed that any hints that the president was in danger at all, in terms of his health, would send the markets further into the tank. all of the investors would pull out and accelerates a tank that was already in full swing. they had to maintain the stability in the markets. the only way to do that was to keep this completely secret. we're not talking about a little secret. they have to do a surgery to make sure that that there are no external scars.he gives an interview to reporter after his second operation. .ith his rubber jaw

>> he sounded like he was purposely ok. >> it must've been a skill to learn how to speak with that. marvin from los angeles. you are on. >> my question has to do with what mrs. cleveland did after she left office. the next democratic first lady, mrs. wilson, got involved in international affairs and attended democratic conventions. so did eleanor roosevelt. jacqueline kennedy worked to save places like grand central station. did frances get involved in any way? did she attend democratic conventions? did she use her influence politically? >> we will get to that story and a few minutes. thanks for asking that. that is an important question. patricia, your question.

>> hello, susan. i never miss your friday night program. >> thank you. >> i wrote a book about my grandfather and there is a chapter -- my grandfather was appointed as the secretary of state. his wife is frances' closest friend in aurora. they often visited the white house. frances was the godmother to my father. i still have the long dress. my question is this -- the -- how did movement? her friend feel about the temperance movement?

>> thank you. >> i lost track of catherine willard. she and frances were indeed good friends. frances introduced catherine willard to mr. baldwin. frances took a temperance vow. she joined the presbyterian church. she honored that up until the latter part of her life. >> unlike the hayes, she served alcohol. >> absolutely. >> she had some fine wine served. >> it is not a policy issue of hers. the temperance movement was not just about temperance. they were the biggest critics of

her in the first term. >> they did not like her sleeveless dresses or her low neck line. they thought she was being immodest. >> i found myself very busy with my social duties beginning again and my two babies. i give so much time to the children because i won't be cheated by the babyhood by anything. frances cleveland held weekly summits for working women. did she continue that during her second term? >> she did not. she scaled back the social calendar. she did what was necessary from a diplomatic standpoint. they tried to get out of the white house to a house that they had in another part of washington. >> there was concern about the cleveland children at that time.

people were concerned. how do the cleveland's approach this? >> that is interesting. people decided that they did not like her. she started closing the white house gates so that the public could not see the children or her when they were out on the grounds. she even uncovered a kidnapping plot, which made her more vigilant to the children. >> we have another video on the cleveland children. >> white house children have always been popular with the public. when she became first lady, she she did not bride. have her first child until a left to the white house and was living in new york. she developed her style. when grover cleveland was reelected, both baby ruth and the harrison grandchild were part of the campaign. this is a piece of sheet music.

the music talks about the two babies vying for who will be the next baby in the white house. during the second term, the cleveland's had their second child. her name was esther. this is a doll that belonged to esther cleveland. she has eyes that open and close. the public was so fascinated with them. every time they went outside, mrs. cleveland was afraid that people would try to pick up the children. they felt that the first children needed to be protected. they were part of the american family.

one of the reasons they had a second home. they only stayed in the white house during the social season. they had a private residence the rest of the time. >> her approach to protecting the children made her less popular with the american public. the economy continued to be challenged. by the time they finished their second tour of duty in the white house, what was the american public's view of the cleveland's? >> very dim, especially him. the economy was in the midst of the worst depression in american history. it lasted five or six years. unemployment was above 10%. he was seen as being able to do nothing about it. in fact, he was not able to do very much about it. frances was seen as being much more withdrawn. these questions about the first family creeped in for the very first time. there is a reporter who snipped

a lock off of ruth's hair. there were concerns about the security. the white house security staff they spendfour to 27. more time outside of the white house. she is seen as being much more aloof to the american people. she is not the same personality that we came to expect during the first term. you combine these two things together, they cannot wait to get out of the white house by the end of their first term. >> maplewood, new jersey. hello, sarah. >> i wonder if cleveland is buried in princeton, new jersey along with ruth and frances. i had no idea. i figured that out. >> we're about to learn the story of their post-white house years. he was a new jersey native.

was raised in new york. after he ran for the white house for the second and final time, how did they decide where to live next?[laughter] >> the story is interesting is, she said that they could not go out and look for a house on their own. they had agents. finally, they both came down for breakfast and one said to the other one, i had an idea where we should live. the other one said, i did, too. they both decided on princeton, >> a what was their life like? >> it was the best from the time that they got married.

they were a family unit. they got involved in princeton university. she got involved in the growing number of women who graduated college. they adopted princeton students who did not have family close by or money. they provided a home and support for them. cleveland worked with the equitable life insurance association. he wrote articles. >> and had more children? >> they had more children. their first son was richard. in 1903, she gave birth to their last child. >> how long after that did the president die? >> he died in 1908. he probably had cancer.he probably had stomach cancer. it was a slow, drawn out, painful death.

he died in the house in princeton. >> there are a number of comparisons drawn between frances cleveland and jacqueline onassis kennedy, the public obssession with her and that she remarried when she became a widow. what is the story about her remarriage? how long after his death did she remarry? >> it was 1913.about five years. it was to a professor at princeton. he had moved to wales from princeton. he was a professor of archaeology. they were a couple years apart from each other. his name was thomas hobson.-- presoton. she made a point of saying that she and the president had very little in common.

he found boring what she found interesting. it is different with the second husband. they had a lot of interests in common -- they had a lot to share interest. in a kindin traveling. of relationship. -- they had a different kind of relationship. >> how public was mrs. cleveland's life after grover cleveland's death? >> she had to manage the press. it waned over time.she was always a news item. she was active during world war i. she was active with an

organization which made homemade garments that they gave to nonprofits for giving out in emergency situations. you could still read these items about her. the obsession was nowhere near to what it was during the white house years. >> she continued to be against women's suffrage. >> she was the vice president of the league of anti-suffrage from 1913 until women got the right to vote. >> what was the public's reaction to a first lady who is campaigning so vigorously against women's suffrage? >> in terms of the debate, it is interesting that there is this split. there was a debate on whether or not it is necessary for women to have the right to vote. whether or not it is important part of women's role in life.

mrs. cleveland exercised her own right to vote. she was still part of a way of thinking about women and their place in american society that developed in the 1870s and 1880's. that first wave feminism. if you want to be the best woman that you can possibly be, that is by exercising authority within your own special realm. you are not interfering with what men are doing. this is what grover cleveland thought about what women should be able to do. so, opposing women's voting, and also her language during world war i and what she was doing in terms of trying to be active in supporting american patriotism. the kind of speeches that she

gave during world war i are incredible pieces of rhetoric. she becomes a very different woman after her marriage to her second husband. >> on a personal front, she also helped raise some of her grandchildren. >> she did. richard's first wife was an alcoholic. so, they were divorced. frances thought it was important for them to have a mother. mrs. cleveland helped to raise here'sleveland robertson. a bit of the phone interview. >> i understand your grandmother was very kind and helped to stop you fromthat get a scolding from her when you ?issed an event

>> that is true. she was my grandmother. this one incident happened on a sunday night in new hampshire where we spent the summer. on sunday nights, we used to get together the family and the cleveland family to sing hymns. we all really enjoyed that. but, each person had their own favorite hymn. one sunday, i got together with a group and went bowling with my cousin and square dancing friends. we had a very good time. i did not think there is anything terribly malicious about it.

mrs. finley was my godmother and one of my grandmother's closest friends and called my grandmother and said, where was ann during the hymn singing? my grandmother called me to her desk. she said, with a quiet smile, she would like to have me back for the rest of the summer. she did it because my godmother, who was a very dear lady, was very influential and very strict. my grandmother was trying to be strict with me. i appreciated that.

i obviously went back to singing hymns. >> your grandmother didn't drink because of the temperance pledge. >> oh yes. my grandmother was older. i stopped by. i love to see her. i stopped by. she had a porch that had a lovely view of the mountains. she was having her breakfast and she was taking her medicine with her breakfast. she announced, with a laugh, that she was taking her medicine that was supposed to be good for her heart. it was whisky. grandmother had always --

she allowed alcohol to be served in the white house. she, herself, had never had whiskey. i can assure you that she did not like it as medicine. [laughter] we thought that was pretty funny. she thought it was a joke on herself. that was the way she was. she had a wonderful sense of humor. she could laugh at herself. she did not appreciate whiskey. >> that whole interview runs about six minutes long. ann cleveland robertson.she lives in baltimore. we have posted all of it on c- span's "first ladies: influence you can find it at www.c-span.org. we have a little depository there. we have just a short time.

i want to get larry in from frankfort, kentucky. >> good evening. a question for dr. dunlap. backing up a bit to the white house years. local history suggest that eleanor lindsay was a very close friend of frances because they were both younger women married to older men. i wonder if dr. dunlap knows about this relationship and, more generally, what her relationship with other wives who were much older? >> i do not know anything about the relationship with ms. lindsay. she did an excellent job of having friendships with some of the older washington wives. that was held by the fact that

older wives, mrs. whitney, took her under her wing. she was a young bride. they respected her. she had a great relationship with them. >> did future presidents or other first ladies ever invite france's cleveland back to the white house? >> she was invited in 1913. >> the press took a good view of her marriage? >> there is only one criticism of the remarriage. for the most part, people embraced it. she was back in washington a number of times. she met truman and eisenhower. she maintains her level of celebrity. >> this is the dunlap biography. >> frank was originally a given name. it was a nickname that she went by.

>> what did grover cleveland call her? >> frank. >> in your closing paragraphs, you make the case that she has been lost to history but shouldn't be. why? >> she was strong on education and the arts. >> how did she change the role of first lady? >> she changed it in terms of putting education in the forefront. she took care of children. she was very concerned about them. >> where would you put her in the pantheon of first ladies? >> she's the first national celebrity first lady. i think we're talking about the development of our understanding of the institution of first lady. she is the first one in which we think about what the uses are all the celebrity, and good ways there are concerns

about the first family was owned by the american public. we talked about how that could be a positive tool for the presidency. if only grover cleveland could have seen that. >> thanks to both of you. thanks to our viewers for your participation. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

>> in our original series, the first ladies, we look at the public and private lives of the women who served as first ladies during the first 112 years and now as we moved to the modern erect, will feature them and their own words. >> it would be one of the foundations on which we would of whichatmosphere peace could grow. >> i do not need the white house ever belongs to one person, it belongs to the people. i think whoever lives in it and the white house should present it leave something for some there every >> season two from mrs. roosevelt to michelle obama .ncluded your calls andweets

night, we'll have the encore presentation of season one with first ladies i do mckinley. mckinley. rally at thethe lincoln memorial commemorating the 50th anniversary of the march on washington and participants from the rally march from the lincoln memorial to the washington monument. us begin with a well-known american and novelist and writer. mr. baldwin, what brought you to the march on washington? >> the fact i was born a negro in this country and more concretely i felt there was no reason for me not to be here. what is the most significant the most loaded demonstration to free americans that is ever

happened in this country. like most americans i've expressed my support of civil rights largely by talking about it. but again, like many americans, i could no longer pay only lip service to a cause that was so bright and in a time that is so urgently now. american tv marks the 50th anniversary of the march on washington with historic and contemporary roundtable discussions and archival films and a visit to the portrait gallery underperformance on the civil rights movement and first count -- account of the day. bring to put up their event directly to you putting du in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, readings, and

conferences and offering gavel- to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house all as a public service a public industry. created by the cable tv industry 34 years ago and funded your local cable or satellite provider and you go watch is in hd. x thousands of people gathered on the national mall today to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the march on washington and civil rights advocates joined members of government in a ceremony on the lincoln memorial. the same location where dr. martin luther king jr. delivered his i have a dream speech. you would hear from the reverend holder, then, eric reverend al sharpton, among others as a picture butte to the events of the day -- as they pay tribute to the events of the day.