out of syria. failing to respond to this outrageous attack would increase the risk that chemical weapons could be used again; that they would fall into the hands of terrorists who might use them against us, and it would send a horrible signal to other nations that there would be no consequences for their use of these weapons. all of which would pose a serious threat to our national security. that's why we can't ignore chemical weapons attacks like this one -- even if they happen halfway around the world. and that's why i call on members of congress, from both parties, to come together and stand up for the kind of world we want to live in; the kind of world we want to leave our children and future generations. thank you. >> hi. i'm dr. john barrasso, united states senator for wyoming. as a doctor who took care of patients for 25 years, i saw the problems with america's health care system every day. there's no question we needed real reform -- reform so that people could get the care they needed, at lower cost. americans now know that's not

what president obama's health care law delivered. what we got is higher taxes and bigger government, without the lower costs or quality care. are you ready to declare your independence? the so-called affordable care act is hurting middle class families -- their wages, their jobs, and their health care. on october first -- less than a month from today -- america will hit the deadline on one of the most critical and controversial parts of the obama health care law. that's when the government insurance exchanges go into effect. whether the exchanges are ready or not, millions of families will have to start arranging to buy their washington-mandated health insurance. many families are going to have real sticker shock when they see their new insurance rates -- even families who get government subsidies. president obama promised that his health care plan would reduce annual insurance premiums by $2,500 a family by the end of his first term. that has not happened. according to the nonpartisan kaiser family foundation, the

average family premium for people getting insurance at work is nearly $3,000 higher than it was when the president took office. and because of the many new government regulations in the law, many part-time workers are having their hours cut back, and their pay reduced. in my home state of wyoming, several county school districts are reportedly looking at actually cutting back the hours of hundreds of part-time workers because of the extra cost of paying for health insurance. this includes substitute teachers, bus drivers, coaches, cafeteria workers and custodians. in virginia, thousands of state employees have had their workweeks capped at 29 hours because of how the law was written. even some of president obama's biggest supporters have been warning about the damage that his health care law is doing to hardworking american taxpayers. the leaders of the teamsters and other major labor unions have

said that the health care law will -- quote - "destroy the foundation of the 40-hour workweek that is the backbone of the american middle class." and even though the president promised that if you liked what you had, you could keep it, for many families that's just not true. workers are losing coverage for their spouses, while paying higher premiums and deductibles. well, that means even more money out of pocket. despite the higher cost to consumers and to workers, many people will still not get the quality health care the president promised them. that's because all of his talk about coverage doesn't mean that people will actually get better care. america is facing a looming shortage of doctors, nurses, and physicians' assistants. the health care law provides for thousands of new irs personnel to enforce the law, but it fails to deal in any meaningful way with the shortage of people to take care of you. the president had grand intentions when he set out to reform health care in this

country -- but he made things worse. the health care law has proven to be unpopular, unworkable, and unaffordable. as a result, people are confused, disappointed, and angry. the law is increasing costs and killing jobs and it's no surprise that employers wanted relief. but shouldn't families get the same relief? families will now have to prove to the irs that they have washington-approved and government-mandated insurance. it seems the only folks who still support the law, are the ones that don't have to live under its mandates, or made special washington deals to avoid it. the american people need health care reform, but it must be the right kind of reform. reform that lowers patient costs, improves health, and protects the vulnerable. this means access to more affordable care, and protecting quality care for older americans.

and let me tell you -- my wife is a breast cancer survivor, so i know how important it is to make sure that we help those with pre-existing conditions. republicans have voted to repeal the health care law and to start over -- start over with ways to truly help people afford the care that they need. the president refuses to acknowledge that his law fails to solve the number one concern of americans when it comes to health care -- which is cost. instead, the white house and its outside political arm have promised to spend millions of dollars in advertising to promote the law. they're working with celebrities and sports teams, to try to convince healthy young people to buy expensive insurance, so other people can pay less. even former president bill clinton was deployed by the white house this week in an attempt to explain away the pain middle class families are feeling. americans want real solutions to bring down the cost of health care -- not more press releases and propaganda. we know what the law does -- and in just a few weeks, we know

it's going to start hitting middle class americans even harder. the american people have a choice. we can embrace the status quo of obamacare for four more years. or we can repeal the law, and quickly move to help people get the care they need, from a doctor they choose, at lower cost. that's what republicans are fighting for. it's time for democrats to join us. thanks for listening. >> on the next "washington journal co. of focus -- journal," a focus on syria. we will talk about the assad regime and why military intervention will not help the country. in a roundtable discussion with and al jazeera hot washington bureau chief. they will discuss potential action in syria and its impact

on the obama administration, its allies, and the middle east. journal" live every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c- span. >> democratic caucus chair representative xavier this era is our guest this week on "newsmakers." he will be discussing u.s. options in syria, immigration policy, the budget, and other issues. you can watch "newsmakers" live on sunday at 10:00 a.m. eastern and again at 6:00 p.m. eastern. on sunday, watched secretary of state john kerry's testimony about proposed military action in syria the for the house foreign relations committee. here is a preview. [video clip] >> let me be very, very clear. when i walked into this room, a

person of conscious stood up behind me, as is the ability of people in our country, and that person said, please, don't take us to war. don't take us to another war. i think the three of us sitting here understand that plea as well as any people in this country. we are notlear -- asking america to go to war. to twohat sitting next individuals who well know what war is, and there are others here today who will know what war is. i know the difference between going to war and what the president is requesting now. , there will be no american boots on the ground. the president has made crystal intention ofe no assuming responsibility for assad's civil war. that is not in the cards.

that is not what is here. the president is asking only for the power to make certain that the united states of america means what we say. he is asking for authorization, targeted and limited, dude -- to deter and grade assad's capacity to use chemical weapons. i will make it clear. for those who feel that more often be done -- ought to be degradationy, the of his capacity to use those weapons has an impact on the lethality of the weapons available to him. it will have an impact on the battlefield. just today, before coming in here, i read an e-mail to me about the general, the minister of defense, former minister or assistant minister, who has just defected and is now in turkey. there are other defections that we are hearing about because of

the potential we might take action. there will be downstream impacts, though that is not the principal purpose of what the president is asking you for. you can watch the house foreign relations committee hearing with secretary of state kerry, defense secretary chuck hagel, and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff general martin dempsey. we will have that 10:30 five eastern here on c-span. -- 10:30 five eastern here on c- span. chambers of congress return to work on monday at 2:00 p.m. eastern after the august recess. toss lawmakers have a number of briefings by top obama administration officials on capitol hill with updates on the situation in syria. lawmakers are facing a potential vote to authorize the use of military force against the syrian regime for using chemical weapons on its citizens. enter in the week, house lawmakers are expected to take up a short-term spending bill to

keep the federal government funded past september 30. house republicans leaders are hoping the stopgap spending bill will give them enough time to reach a broader agreement with senate democrats and the white house on fiscal matters, including whether and how much to raise the debt doing --debt ceiling. we will have live coverage here on c-span. senators return to a weeklong debate on whether to authorize military action against syria. lawmakers will begin with general speeches and then take a pair of votes on judicial nominations at 5:30. you can watch the senate live on our companion network c-span 2. c-span -- we bring public affairs events from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings, and conferences, and offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house, all as a public service of private industry. we are c-span, created by the

cable tv industry 34 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider, and now you can watch us in hd. season 2 of our series "first "adies: influence and image begins live on monday with look at the lives -- the life of edith roosevelt. today we heard how the media has covered first ladies throughout the years and now they have crafted their own image. this is from the museum -- the newseum. it is about 50 minutes. >> good afternoon, welcome to the museums studio.-- the newseum studio. i am your host, john maine art, program manager here at the museum. today we examined the influence and image of america's first ladies. margaret truman once said the first lady has have the second hardest job in america. lady bird johnson said are slated to the only ones who can tell the president to shut up and not get fired. and jacqueline kennedy once said that the one thing she does not what he called his first lady, it sounds like a saddle horse.

certainly three different viewpoints of a position in our government that we perhaps do not know enough about. this monday, c-span will help educate us as it resumes its for that resumes its series, "first ladies, -- resumes its series, "first ladies: influence and image." it resumes with edith roosevelt, leading up to the series finale with michelle obama in february. the series is produced in conjunction with the white house historical association, a charitable nonprofit institution whose purpose is to enhance the understanding, appreciation, and understanding -- understanding and appreciation of the white house. cokie roberts, to my left, is a familiar face. he is a political commentator for abc news and npr. she also writes a weekly syndicated column in newspapers around the country with her husband and my own professor,

steven roberts. she is the author of two best- selling books, the founding mothers, and the ladies of liberty. next to cokie is richard norton smith, a scholar in residence at george mason university. he is one of the preeminent historians and is the former head of six national moderates-- six presidential libraries. discuss most everything related to the presidency. he has published numerous books, including "an uncommon man," and "patriarch: george washington and the new american nation." chrisa thompson is a historian who covers michelle obama. she writes about a broad range of not so famous people who do not require secret service protection. she began at the washington post in 2001 and reported from the

newsrooms bureau and traveled the country to interview voters during the 2008 president of campaign. please welcome our distinguished panel. [applause] i do want to run a quick preview, a trailer of the series. [video clip] >> if we turn away from the needs of others, we align ourselves with those forces that are bringing about this suffering. >> obesity in this country is nothing short of a public health crisis. [indiscernible]

>> there are so much influence in this opportunity. it would be a shame to waste it. >> i think they serve as a window on the path to what was going on with american women. >> she becomes the chief's confidant. really, anyway, the only person they can trust. >> many were writers, journalists, they wrote books. >> they are, in many cases, more interesting as human beings than their husbands. if only because they are not defined and limited by political ambition. >> edith roosevelt is the unsung hero. when you go to the white house today it is really edith roosevelt's white house. >> there was too much looking down, and i think it was a little too fast, not enough change of pace.

>> yes, ma'am. >> i think, in every case, the first lady is really -- has really done would ever fit her personality and her interest. >> she later wrote in her memoir that she said, "i myself never made any decisions. i only decided what was important and when to present it to my husband." you stop and think about how much power that is, it is a lot of power. >> prior to the battle against cancer -- part of the battle against cancer is to fight the fear that accompanies the disease. >> she transformed the way we look at these bugaboos and made it possible for countless people to survive and flourish, as a result.

i don't know how many presidents have realistically had that kind of impact on the way we live our lives. >> just walking around the white house grounds i am constantly reminded of all of the people who lived there before, and particularly all of the women. >> first ladies, influence and image, a c-span original series reduced income portion -- produced in cooperation with the white house historical association. we explore the modern era with edith roosevelt to michelle obama. >> if you are tweeting this program from home or in the audience, you can use the hashtag -- we will start with cokie. we studied residence in schools. when it comes to first ladies, not so much in wise important -- not so much. why is it so important that we

study them? >> there is the smith -- is this myth that first ladies started being powerful during eleanor roosevelt and then they went back into the closets and popped back up with hillary clinton. that is just crazy. martha washington was very much understood -- martha washington very much understood that she was creating this unique role and she was politically very savvy. she arrived in new york, the temporary capital, knowing it would be more well received for a republican court. she had to establish the job and she actually wrote, "they, define its lady of the land but i feel like a prisoner." she lobbied the congress for

veterans pensions because she had been at camp for the eight long years of the revolutionary war with those soldiers. they came to her concert lee after the war. she was in there -- to her constantly after the war could she was in there with her cause. they all have been. some more effectively than others am a some more graciously than others. they have been very powerful forces. and i think we are fascinated by them because i'm as lady johnson said, they cannot be fired -- because, as lady johnson said, they cannot be fired. >> richard? >> historians are looking for primary sources. there is no more primary source than the first lady. she is an absolutely unique position.

mrs. 40s to talk about her success -- mrs. ford is to talk about her success in getting a woman into the cabinet. she almost got a woman onto the supreme court. we never would have known about that if she had not thought to tell us. imagine american history and go back to the early stages before the eleanor roosevelt, "modern era." the adams presidency was unsuccessful enough. it arguably would have been more successful that he paid more attention to abigail. >> or not. [laughter] she was a good political adviser before he was president that she cannot take the criticism. -- but she could not take the criticism. she was a huge supporter of alien -- she talked about the batteries of use and schola looksee -- scholility. nothing will have an effect in

less commerce passes this bill. bash -- unless congress passes this bill. >> her attitude toward people, she soft and john considerably. >> it took some doing. >> she goes all over her papers, the speeches, but the interesting thing is -- and it is the single biggest

difference, is that these relative handful of women in the 19th century who went out of their way not to conceal their interest in a political partnership were inevitably the targets of severe criticism and mocked the president. >> i know we want to hear from you. i think we can make a real case that the country would have followed apart without dolly madison. -- fallen apart without dolly madison. the kind of partisanship underlined by regionalism was as vicious then. the country was way too young and way too fragile. she did it for decades because she was the first lady. she really had that ability to make people sit down and have a drink together and behave. >> we will talk about michelle obama's influence later in the conversation.

when you were assigned michelle obama am a how did you approach it and how did you study up on a t e -- on at? -- on it? >> she took her first solo to her in africa and visited the botswana. i read stories about laura bush and her trip there and hillary clinton and her trip there. it was interesting how different the coverage is of these first ladies, particularly hillary clinton, who at the time, there was already this buzz that she was running and what that meant. you don't just have the coverage of the first lady bringing herself and put a stop -- and put a spotlight on something but try to understand her political ambitions as well. michelle obama was not traveling with at kind of import. her message has, in many ways, influenced pop culture and not politics. i tend to look at her from that lens. i think she draws upon some

historic first ladies in choosing to enter the position from that angle. we often see her on tv talk shows, sometimes scripted television, taking her messages about childhood obesity and helping military families there, which, as we know, nancy reagan and to that conversation on "different strokes." in many ways there is nothing new under the sun. as technology and media changes there are other avenues for first ladies to -- michelle obama likes to call herself "living in a harsh spotlight," but whatever spotlight she stands in front of she can sign a light on -- shine a light on. >> the subtitle is "influence and image." how has influence evolved from the days of martha washington?

has it been a steady evolution? >> different marriages are different. it is whether the man listens to her and not in -- to her or not. you have different personalities. obviously all of that comes into play. you certainly have moments where you see -- sarah polk was a good example, she was basically cabinet secretary. i would make the argument that we did not have a strong first lady in the years leading up to the civil war and it made a difference in the fact that people were not able to come together. obviously there was a lot going on. but there was none of that force, not as there is today. not that michelle obama is not doing a good job as first lady.

but the city is so partisan that it is very difficult. >> she hasn't chosen to be a part of washington in that way. >> you can make the argument that harriet lane, who was -- did a far superior job of bringing people together than her uncle did. harriet was a great hostess. she entertained the prince of wales for the first time he came here. she was the one success. >> that people like her. that still she was the girl nice. she did not have the clout a first lady did. looks the other thing is "influence" is a word that is redefined. you think of eleanor roosevelt and automatically the word "influence" comes to mind and a public sense. you don't automatically associate bets truman -- associate bets truman -- bess truman --

how do you define public influence and private influence? the fact that president truman discussed the decision to drop the bomb with his wife and very few other people is a unique kind of influence, but it may escape the public eye. >> even when it is public, laura bush's advocacy for overthrowing the regime of burma, it is so interesting how people put the first ladies in a box. she complained that people would say to her when she became first lady, are you going to be hillary clinton or barbara bush? she said, why don't i just be laura bush? she got, through a relative, very interested in what was going on in burma. she was the only first lady to go to the press room at the white house and take the microphone herself and take it to call for the overthrow of the burmese regime.

that is kind of the public image of her. she did it on her way to her daughter's wedding. i asked her m1 point why -- at i asked her at one point, why. she had been working on that issue for years and had been writing op-ed for the wall street journal and had managed the conduct -- managed to convince the you into convene conferences on it. she finally convinced her husband to call for sanctions. that is where the influence really comes in. he is the person with the power. >> that's interesting, because we do put first ladies in a box in so many ways and expect them to sort of fit into that dynamic. >> she also belongs to this unique kind of chandra, if you will, of first ladies -- kind of

john ruck, if you will, of first ladies. -- kind of genre, if you will, of first ladies. in many ways her role was completely redefined in ways she could not imagine. >> she talks about that. on september 11 mrs. bush was on her way to the capital to testify before the senate education and labor committee. nobody thinks about that, she was talking about children and education when the first plane hit. she was in senator kennedy's office. and then the second plane hit and then she worked the phones to find her children and her mother and her husband. and then she and senator kennedy went out before the cabinet to try to calm the american people together. and he says, you take the measure of a person on a day like that -- but she had thought

her interests were going to be literacy and books and breast cancer, where she had played a role in texas, and all that. and it just changed dramatically where the women of afghanistan became a huge issue, the international concerns, all of that became a much bigger issue. >> a leader knows us any better -- knows this better than anyone in the room. when pearl harbor happened, the country does not hear from its president until the next day when fdr delivers his famous, "data will live in infamy" speech before congress. the voice of reason -- the voice of reassurance comes from mrs. roosevelt at that critical moment. >> you mentioned laura bush and literacy, although that did change course. we have michelle obama with healthy eating. it seems the first lady is a

\champion of a cause. where can we trace the cops -- trace the origin of first ladies being the champions of a specific cause? >> hoover was very influential with her scouts. she was head of the girl scouts. it was lady bird johnson who really all of them quote now. she said "i have a podium, and i'm going to use it." every first lady since then has quoted lady bird johnson to me, saying exactly the same thing. >> you literally can go back into the 19th century and find, to everyone's surprise, first ladies who had causes. the first i can find is dolly madison, who donated $20 and a cal to a local orphanage.

>> that orphanage started after the british invaded washington and he started it for girls -- that orphanage started after the british invaded washington and it was started for girls. it started a pattern that was very important. something that i very much grew up here in washington as a political child was that political women got together with the local women to really provide social services. that really started with dolly madison. >> we are jumping centuries here, back to michelle obama. talk to us about media coverage of the first ladies. has hurt team effectively shape her brand? >> those of us who were covered and watched her in the 2007,

2008 campaign cycle, there were moments when she did not have a solid footing and she was not necessarily a beloved political figure and now she is one of the most popular political figures and the democratic party. she has some definite faux pas was -- definite faux pas's, and it was a harsh image. then we see as soon as her husband was elected she comes to washington and she declares right away that she is mom in chief. this was a woman who graduated from princeton and harvard, has been vice president of a hospital in chicago, and so immediately we have a signal there as to how she wants to introduce herself to us.

there was a few months where she was figuring out what causes she is going to take on, what they would look like programmatically, so she spent some time traveling through washington and saying thank you to federal workers and introducing herself. and then she plants the garden and harkins back to the traditions that we have been talking about. she then begins to develop this healthy eating initiative. we see, almost right away, that she does much of that through pop culture. early on they did have a few roundtables with reporters who covered her. that rarely happens now. we are often hearing from her directly when she is on late night with jimmy kimmel or tweeting, when she communicates with her followers. she is now on not just twitter but pinterest and instagram. there are ways that she gets her message out, most often through women's magazines, as well. we kind of see that softer side of michelle obama really being shaped through those media, and not the political media.

>> since we are here, staying on media, how has media coverage changed on coverage of the first lady? television changed everything but give us some thoughts. >> before television, elavil and roosevelt -- eleanor roosevelt changed everything pitch he had press conferences and insisted that the male journalists be in their, which was a huge step forward. >> they were limited to women. >> absolutely, as well they should have been. [laughter] the others were pretty limited to men. that really started the change in the way first ladies were covered. now, this 24 hour thing, i have had the great privilege in early june of going to tanzania and interviewing michelle obama and

laura bush together. >> it was a great conversation. >> it was wonderful, it was a great history making summit. when the bushes realized they would be on the same continent at the same time, they invited mrs. obama. mrs. obama did a very gracious thing. she could have hijacked it, but she said i want to, and have a conversation with laura bush. -- i want to come and have a conversation with laura bush. at first it was delightful, but secondly it was educational for the women who were there. to have these two women, rival parties, sitting and being very friendly with each other, was something that was a very wonderful example to present.

their conversations about media coverage was basically -- it was nicer because they are well trained. but it was basically what abigail thought. >> michelle obama did say it didn't still feel a little bit like prison. >> that's a good example of why media coverage is so unfair. she was quoting martha washington. i said, martha washington said "prisoner," and i asked them if they feel that way. they laughed at it. it comes with the job. the somewhat hostile to the president press -- michel said --e white houses a prison.

michelle says, white house, prison. it was very unfair. >> we are going to get questions in just a moment. we have two people with microphones that will come right to you. i want to bring up something. we opened a jfk exhibit here in april and we all have a chance to see it -- and we hope you all have a chance to see it. one exhibit is creating a camelot section, featuring pictures taken by the kennedys, some stunning pictures by jackie kennedy. give us a sense of what jackie kennedy's poise, following the assassination of her husband -- we have to remember she was 34 years old? >> so young. >> lots of people think she is was the youngest first lady in american history. actually, that was frances cleveland, who was 22 when she

married the man she called "uncle cleve." we won't go there. >> we're on c-span. [laughter] >> mrs. kennedy is an absolutely unique figure. she doesn't fit any obvious category. she wasn't an activist in the sense of lady johnson or political activist in -- or political activist. she did not have a lot of time for the press and yet she had become an iconic figure long before she became a legend that week in november, 1963. something like 60 million americans tuned in to her tour of the white house. just an extraordinary bonding water cooler event.

of course, it brought indelible images of first ladies that are still with us. the idea was, she had a sense of theater. she had decreed that the president's funeral in effect be based upon the services for abraham lincoln, 100 years earlier. so it isn't as if this was all together unscripted. of course, to the extent that camelot was constructed, it was very much her doing. >> listening to these tape recordings, unfortunately he is really credited, not her. but she still reveals herself in ways that are very interesting. now, again, it is a moment in time. it is march of 1964. so her husband has just died.

she is a young widow. that has to be taken into account, as you listen to her. it is very clear that she knew everything that was going on. meaning, he would bring her c.i.a. briefing books. she certainly knew who all the players were and how he related to them and all of that. >> she was rather astute. >> yes. >> about almost everyone. >> except my parents. [laughter] >> naturally. >> i remember adalade stevenson. i always thought they were sympatico. when i read that, i thought to myself, you know, this is fascinating, but i would love to have heard her tape 20 years later and seen maybe how she might have assessed some of those big issues.

>> we have some hands raised. if the young lady will bring the mic up. >> you have persuaded me that the presidents, like all husbands i know, married up. >> and doug, you certainly did. >> and for the public record we needed that? [laughter] >> live on c-span. so i'd like to know, tell us about some of their goofs. tell us about things the first ladies got involved in that didn't go so well in terms of politics or policy. jackie kennedy, the brains behind the bay of pigs? >> no. >> i think you can make a case that hillary clinton and health care was a big goof. was it her goof or the president's goof? but putting the first lady, a person who is, as you said, unfireable and unlicted, into--

and unelected, into that kind of position of dealing with the major issue at the time was not, in my view, a wise thing to do. it certainly didn't end well for either her or him. >> i would say edith wilson with perhaps the best of intentions produced arguably the worst of results. a new biography is coming out next week, but it has said that in fact the president was willing to resign following his massive stroke in 1919, but the vice president did not want him to. what i think we all know is that mrs. wilson certainly didn't push that course of action. and in many ways, his historical reputation, and arguably today, would be considerably

better had he actually left the office voluntarily. what exactly her role was is debated, but you -- but she decided who got to see him and when, and if she wasn't the first female president, she was certainly the first female chief of staff. >> i think she was volunteering at a food shelter or homeless shelter and wore tennis shoes that cost like $500. and there was that trip that she took with her daughter to spain and there became questions about that and how it was financed and if it was appropriate at the time. >> i think we have another question. >> how did wives of the vice president who did transition

into the white house after an assassination or something deal with that? >> that's a good question. >> that's a great question. >> yes. >> i think the first lady of the 21st century who we need most to know about that we probably don't is grace coolidge. she would have been just delightful. if you had to be stuck on a desert island, i would much rather have been there with grace than cal, even if i wouldn't have had to make as much conversation. she was a professional. she taught students at the clark school for the deaf. in fact, one way of -- what was it? "she taught the deaf to hear, she might yet teach the dumb to speak" referring to calvin. [laughter] we know it was a troubled marriage that she more than once

considered divorce. that the toughest times of the marriage were during the white house years following the loss of their son, calvin junior. there is something about that, it seems to me, that universalizes the experience. people living in rarefied settings yet they are dealing with the same prestige, not always successfully, that you and i would take for granted. >> and unfortunately in the white house where there is as much cynicism as there is. >> lady bird johnson coming in after the assassination of the president could not have been a more effective first lady. she new the city, she knew the players, and she certainly had the ability toll soften him. listening to those tapes, you saw the one where she criticizes

-- the way the conversations go, she will start out with, "please, dear", "you did this so well," and "i really think that you handled that question very nicely." and then she will just start in. you can hear him getting farther and farther from the point as she's talking to him. she was a very good adviceor. but she was also a wonderful diplomat in the city and the world. >> he -- richard norton smith, you made a comment at the beginning about how the white house of today is really the white house that president wilson left us. i am curious if you can give us

an advance preview of what we might see on monday night in that regard? >> >> the roosevelts were a ram bunkous -- rambunctuous family. it is said she had six children of which thee dore was the youngest.-- theodore was the youngest. it was edith who said, "this is a home." until now it had often been an office building. it has been many things. it has been a press head quarters, a war room, and among other things, a home for the president's family. the first mrs. roosevelt had her priorities very set. she brought in the white, and out went the victorian palms, and the same brass bric-a-brac, and she -- the house was redesigned, reimagined. george washington could walk into the house today and feel at home. it went back to an early kind of

federal style, classic lines. so my point is, physically, for all the people like mrs. kennedy, for example, who have had a huge imprint on the house, physically the house you go to today is very much edith roosevelt's creation. it cost $475,000. >> we may be on the verge of our first woman president. how will the role -- and you might be covering that personally -- but how will the roles change if indeed the man takes that role? >> oh, i think there will be endless coverage and so much interest. any time you have a historic person, which is part of what's driven so much interest in michelle obama in the role, is, you know, everything is new. how will he approach the duties of the first spouse?

what will we call him? i can see the press having lots of fun with the lists of names and there are a million things you can do. but sort of watching the roles change. and michelle obama talks about part of the role being that which belongs to the american people and the other part is what each first lady brings to it. so to have the first male in the role looking at the hybrid of those two things and figuring out how it works in modern america and what it says about us. because they are often responding to, you know, the public's sense of what's acceptable in that moment, right? >> our own roles of men and women in a marriage. we all focus on that background. >> you have a great point on how the role of men and women are pushed to the background. i thought it was very insightful. >> thank you. >> what roles of first ladies pushed to the background because they were women? >> they were all in the background, in that sense.

>> you have talked about they have done great things that you have acknowledged. what are some of the things you know got suppressed because of their being first women instead of president? >> we can address the first ladies who are undeservedly obscured. i would think pat nixon, for example. i remember talking to someone very close to her. i said, was she shy? they said, no, she wasn't shy. she was self-efacing. and there is a difference between the two. it was pat nixon who started tours for blind visitors to the white house. it was pat nixon, when there was a terrible earthquake in peru and she wanted to do something,

she just, you know, went to the president, and they loaded up a plane, and she took it, and didn't have a lot of press following her. it wasn't all about pictures of her, which again goes back to her self-efacing nature. at the same time, how can you not feel sympathy for what this woman endured? she had a rough life from the very beginning. politics was not her chosen field. she went through the agony of the checkered speech where she was a prop in her republican cloth coat, and then, of course, watergate. that's a pretty gramic story, yet i would say we know very-- dramatic story, yet i would say we know very little about the nixon.aty >> there would have been props

behind them. when hamilton had his affair, she was a skylar, she saved his political career. that will particular role makes me a little crazy, the smiling abused spouse, but that role has been around for a very long time. >> i think we have had several first ladies who are lawyers and have had a great welfare of-- wealth of experience in the private sector and acting with michelle obama and some of the different people i have interviewed there is a sense there is more she could be doing. of course she has to consider, of course, it is not an elected role, but you are bringing women of substance in, and should they just be hostesses?

>> that raises to me one of the really fascinating conundrums about the way this role has evolved particularly in the last generation or so. you have a situation where first ladies invariably have higher mores than their husbands. they often sell more books than their husbands. >> they are better books. [applause] [laughter] >> because they are honest. >> there is a connection, clearly, between those two factors. they become unique political assets, and yet part of their unique appeal is that they are not seen as purely partisan figures. tell me about the tight rope that a modern first lady -- >> that is what was reelly -- really interesting in this conversation about mrs.

obama. in the end, i said to mrs. obama, you wanted to have this conference. why did you want to do that? and she reached out to mrs. bush and said, i like this woman. she has been so helpful to me and her staff has been so helpful to me, and, you know, this is something that we can do together. it, again, was such a wonderful example to the women there. i sort of wanted to bottle it and bring it to capitol hill. they were able to bridge that divide. and then those pictures you just saw at the beginning of barbara bush and hillary clinton walking together. i think it remains easier for the women. >> but the former presidents -- >> oh, yeah, they all love each other.

>> is it sad that we have to be an ex to engage in -- >> it is interesting that the first lady was able to do that in that context. >> i'm curious. i'm sure you've been asked this before, but i wasn't there for the answer. is there a particular first lady with whom you feel close with? >> i am never good at questions like this. everybody is so different from each other. >> as a historian. they all are in an extraordinarily difficult and commanding -- whatever period of history we're talking about, different media demands. you know, you are unpaid, are you unelected. are you subject to criticism,

much of it irrationale, for what you wear, how your children conduct themselves, for what cause you embrace or fail to embrace. so i think every single one of these women deserves not just our sympathy but our admiration for their willingness to take it on. >> i have a little trouble admiring mary lincoln. >> really? >> that's a tough one. >> why? >> well, because she was crazy. >> some are more empathetic than you are. >> somebody needs to be. >> but it is true, she has lousy press. the thing with the lincoln library, i have directed this, and the single question i most often get is, was mary lincoln really crazy? >> well, coming at someone with a knife -- [laughter] >> this is a woman --

>> one last conversation. >> as we know more about the first ladies or respective first ladies and they are more educated and we now know what they are influence is, do you think they have a greater influence on how america votes? >> how america? >> votes, for president. do you think that is taken into consideration who the first lady is going to be? >> no, i don't. but i do think -- all presidential candidates have surrogates, and the first lady or the perspective first lady is the surrogate in chief. and what she does is validate him in a very -- and some day i hope it is the other way around she relates particularly to women voters, and she's saying,

i like the guy. that does give him a surrogacy more valuable than any other. and george bush started all his campaign speeches in 2000 with reference to laura bush. he knew she was just likable. and particularly, he was saying, she likes me. and that's what they are all saying, to some degree. this worthy woman says that i'm a good guy. so the voters kind of respond to that on his behalf. we don't even have any evidence that anybody votes for vice president, much less first lady. >> you often here the term "humanize" that the first lady