our spotlight on magazine series will focus on the shutdown with zoe carpenter. host: good morning, everyone on this on over second, 2013. governmentday of the shutdown. house republicans proposed opening up the draw agencies he smeal but the democrats and republicans -- democrats rejected the idea. breaking this morning, due to the shutdown, president obama has clan -- canceled a planned visit to malaysia next week. thoughts thisyour

morning, your take on day two of the government shutdown. (202) 737-0001, (202) 737-0002, and independence (202) 628-0205. 12 can e-mail us at journal@c-span.org. phone is davidhe hawking, senior editor with roll call. what will happen today? what is the latest? >> i do not think we know too much about what will happen today except almost certainly what happens today, whatever , we think the piecemeal bill we will have today is

opening the national institute of health. there were reports yesterday that some young all in a clinical trial at nih for cancer treatment, that the trial had to stop and the kids did not get their treatment. what through social media and capital. almost certainly that will face the same fate as the bills that moved yesterday, which would have involved allowing the district of columbia to locally .aise money to stay open the national parks and veterans administration to keep going. all of those got republican votes, but that was not enough to pass the bill under the two thirds majority rural that the house republican set up for this.

evidence that the ranks within the republican party are starting to crack and there could be more of a movement for a clean continuing resolution? it is all starting to blur ofether, but on the night september 30 there were three or to passes in the house this continuing resolution with various health care writers attached. on each of those, somewhere between 6-12 republicans opposed those. they were essentially signaling they favored this. that is a small crack, nowhere prompte crack that would

the speaker to move a clean cr because he has said many times he will not move any legislation that cannot muster a majority of his majority, which would be something close to 200 18 votes. >> any evidence that democrats are getting concerned that republicans are unwilling to negotiate could break through with the american public and therefore they might support the piecemeal effort that house republicans are putting forth? guest: i would say a handful of them. thedog democrats that have races next year have taken the view that you just described, to bondnearly enough

with the republicans to advance where they want to do this in a way that sentence or -- that the senate democrats would be willing to go along with this. has 100% loyalty which is to resist these ideas. all reports are is this could go on for weeks. if it goes into the weekend, debt ceiling negotiations become intertwined. what happens then? the president has left no additional openings for negotiation on the debt ceiling. maybe even fewer openings on the debt ceiling then he has on the continuing resolution.

he has had an ironclad terms he will not trade anything thatoever for legislation would pay the bills of the government has already run up. so it is hard to see when we in herout the next -- agencies becoming intertwined, hard to see what there is to negotiate. host: why does the government have to shut down in the first place at? the law says the authority for federal agencies to obligate money, to write money -- write checks and pay

money last from one fiscal year to the end of the other. the start of the fiscal year is october 1. on september 30, unless congress has appropriated money to the program for the new fiscal year, it has no permission to spend any money. for a time it was viewed they could not spend any money at all and would be a total government shutdown. that was never really honored. in the carter administration, the attorney general at the time wrote an opinion that said in the absence of appropriation, program could continue to spend money temporarily on essential services, so that is why we now have the split. able to decide what is essential and what is not.

thank you for taking time and setting up this this morning. going to phone calls. roberta. caller: i was really calling to remind democrat collars who are calling in and blaming everyone. hatejust want to spread regarding fascination that our tea party of which i am not a member came about because of the overreach and spending of the total democrat party a few years ago. i just think it is time for us to stand up and be americans and get the blame for the people who started it, and that was the democrat party. guest: are you feeling the impact of a shut down in san

o?ego likes caller caller: no. as long as it takes. think -- talking about prayer. she really is a reach. the woman cannot tell the truth. let's pass it and find out what is in it. then we hear the president say we will not have this in that. none of it ended up being true. i really think it is time that the people hold this man responsible or his own words and do homework about who this man even is. there may not be signs of a government shutdown where roberta lives in san diego but allow him -- around washington there is a lot of tape.

up on capitol hill non-- essential employees have been asked not to come to work. chicago.c caller in good morning. i am a cardiologist. i feel the government shutdown could be a possible approach to reorganization of the health care program. as a physician, we have a lot of work to do and how we provide health care to the citizens of the united states. i am independent and watching the whole thing and see arguments from both sides and i see the struggle and frustration , but at the end of the day, it is a complicated system. patients are really suffering in this country and we need to get

on top of it and work with the sides of the aisle and come together because at the end of the day if we are not able to move healthy, we are not able to him do the things we are called to do in this country. guest: john in north carolina says i made it through the day. two,er tweet, day government is not working. we want to get your story about how this is working for you. special line for government employees -- in illinois. independent caller. i just had to say this, you had other members from arizona i think about 10 days ago. a lady representative and a man representative.

both of them said they wanted to get along. of course the vote was divided over an eight percent tax that would help a the deficits of our country. as far as the health care goes, my doctor says health care will go down as far as visits. i am only going to give one bloodwork a year. does not bother me. she is a good doctor and i like her a lot. 135ally hope all congressmen, representatives, everybody all have a massive and die all at once and

see if they can get that doctors is it. the first day of the government shut yesterday the first day of the open enrollment for the affordable care act. uris the front page. obamacare website has seen much interest, some glitches. 2.8 million is the number who visited. it said others called in to the line. about 60,000 went online for online chats. were not caused by staffing shortages because most of the government employees were not for load but lingering opposition -- were not for loa urloughed. on the shutdown, below that

story, bracing for a long battle. we heard from david hawking's where this all stands, republicans tried to piecemeal approach yesterday to fund affairs at nih, veteran . democrats rejected that saying they were picking winners and losers. we will see how that shakes out today in the house comes back into session at 10:00 eastern time. some other headlines, front page of the wall street journal. congress digs in for the long haul. the treasury said we will bump up against that that feeling on

october 17. nears.iling shows a caption of how a government shutdown is affecting things around the country, but also oversees the american cemetery in paris also closed due to the government shutdown. data is on the front page of the financial times.

those two front pages for you from the nations newspapers. back to phone calls. eugene, fairfax, virginia. first time caller. happy to be here. a terrible day i would say. the fact that the health care law is putting hundreds of thousands of workers out of a job basically. it seems as if people do not realize that some of us are out

there saving lives, the fact that the republicans want to piecemeal things, given the opportunity to pick and choose what is important and what is not, that is ridiculous. the argument that democrats are not willing to negotiate, there were other parts of the law, the budget that included a lesser amount of money that they did not agree to. republicans need to take a look at themselves. i am a little frustrated and nervous. let's hear from a republican, representative paul ryan. chosen to negotiate between the chambers and come to some sort of deal. here is what he had to say. >> all of the things we have done have been the increasing likelihood we get a budget that pays down the debt, pro-growth

economic policies, create jobs to make sure we can deal with the sequester. we wanted to go to a budget agreement when we thought we had a likelihood of getting an agreement. if we went prematurely, that would decrease the likelihood we got an agreement. we have a debt limit coming. it is coming in about two weeks. past havets in the always involved us. we think the enforcing mechanism , all of the budget agreements came together because of debt limits. that was paul ryan and wisconsin. in 2012ominee back talking about negotiations. is next deadline, which raising the debt ceiling so

government can pay its bills. here is from a political piece davis.san house republicans huddled in private earlier tuesday and showed nosaw regina signs of cohesion. republicans are bullish. they have reason to be said david washer men.

reggie in arlington, virginia. government worker. what is your story? caller: as of yesterday at 10:00 in the morning i was for load-. - furloughed. raise inot had a pay four years. load. get for we are basically pawns in this pathetic game that the house gop is playing.

it is really sad. you belong to a union? absolutely not. the strongest tool they have is to strike. federal employees cannot strike. what have you been told about your pay? truthfully, nothing. we can hope and wish and pray, but that is all we can do. it is really sad you will leverage peoples jobs, employment just to make a point that you try to make fortysomething times. it is ridiculous. i laughed you this. will social security recipients caller: i do not know if i am going to get paid honestly. this is what it is about.

it is about a certain group of people wanting to have their way . there is an old saying, desperate people do desperate things. this is a very desperate act done by very desperate people. tina, independent caller. illinois. i am a first time caller. the comments i wanted to make is this needs to stop. works at a day care center, and i believe the children down there he works with are more mature than people in government. thing i am concerned aout is my husband is disabled veteran. told we do notg

know if he will get his checks. we lived off of those checks. we live off of a fixed income. what we want to know is when they will get back together and fix what they need to fix so that people will get the money they need, especially the veterans. george in florida. caller: how are you doing? it is no longer we. half the country don't pay any taxes. he didond caller said not like the republicans. it is the democrats who will not take the piecemeal offer.

they are collectively bargaining. i am tired of the social programs. i have not worked since the 1950s. as a capitalist i know what money can do and what it cannot do. these people are more predicated on money than im. the fact is i do not want to see our constitutional government turn into a socialist failed government like it is doing all over the world, especially in europe. this man is a socialist and is taking over industry in this country. great.sm worse -- works host: jj said this on twitter -- says gop cannot

win a national election so the sore losers shut down the government. treat -- tweet by peter baker -- that's from peter baker on that. of the government shutdown. the longer the shutdown process, the more it will affect the public. meals on wheels -- wheels, the federal program to feed hungry senior citizens would need to shut down services in the last more than a week or so. , just one person instead of eight is tracking flu born

pathogens. the fcc said the shutdown was forcing it to suspend big mergers. the judge that no. at the nih, francis collins said 200 patients who will otherwise be admitted to the clinical center for clinical trials will be turned away. this includes 30 children. most of them cancer patients. civilian workers were also sent home. some of the effects of a

government shutdown as we are in day two. toby is in pennsylvania. democratic caller. last time there was a government shutdown was 17 years ago when clinton was president. remember how great clinton didn't as a president? -- did as a president? republicans will try to shut down the government. they did it 17 years ago and are doing it now. they just use obamacare as a point to say it is that. what was it when clinton was president? we have not had reasonable republicans and a very long time. that is not right. you should not shut down the government just because you do not get elected. you see the new voting rights infringements. you see this happening.

they try to make it harder for democrats to get elected. host: how old are you? caller: i am 26. i am unemployed right now. i got cancer a little while ago and could not work. i had insurance and had my job. because i got sick. after i got better, because of -- i was 25 at the time, and obamacare covers you if you are under 26. i hopped on my dads insurance because i had been out of work so long getting treatment. i was able to get treatment because of obamacare. and the people say it is wrong, i have been directly affected by it in the fact that it was good. i have not had a job since because of the economy. tore have been 40 plus votes

repeal obamacare. zero votes on jobs bills this year. "the wall street journal" --

jared bernstein, former economic adviser to the obama administration, longtime aide to joe biden wrote this. he wrote this piece. they cannot know for sure whether congress will decide to pay them until the shutdown is over. means affected households are likely to rein in spending. while that number represents

only .5% of the workforce, the reduced economic activities could be felt in communities where they are overrepresented like d.c. or in small towns that have a popular national park. all parks are closed. this is splashed across many of the newspapers across the country this morning. sheila in massachusetts. good morning. thank you for taking my call. there are three equal branches of government. they are equal and we have a right to dissent of this administration or any other administration over any law that has made. here is a question you should be asking all of your callers. should everyone be treated the same or are federal employees so much more special that they should get special deals, along with big corporations and

others. a simple question. take a poll. you will see. faire not being treated and equally under this bill. lied to get it passed in congress. court,ed to the supreme saying it was not a tax. he lied in front of the entire nation. linda and washington. what are your thoughts this morning? mostly what i want to say is federal workers are people, people with families, people who are veterans and people who have families that are suffering because of the shutdown. what i want to talk about this morning is the jeopardy that the shutdown is putting families in.

risk of all, my husband is a commercial fisherman and is out fishing and cannot get access to the marine weather. not only am i worried about what is going on at work, i am worried about my family. when the piecemeal in comes in and says we were putting the .eteran it is really not about any of that, it is all about all of that. we need to be aware how we are putting families lives in jeopardy. i am hoping we can put forth in a positive manner and how this

is affecting real people. a liberal group, a graphic they put out yesterday. republicans shut down the government. made its way across facebook yesterday. conservatives responded. airingservative group is radio ads urging democrats to eliminate funding for the health care law to resolve a government shutdown. take a look at the new advertisement. >> obamacare will begin any day now but unenforceable and unworkable and unfair. thankfully republicans have voted to fund the government. harry reid and democrats are forcing a government shutdown to get their way. democrats are insisting americans be forced to do a government run health care programs they do not want. congressional democrats want you to be forced into a programs

they are exempted from. is time for democrats to listen to americans and defund obamacare. over 2 million americans have arty sign the petition. congressional democrats still not listening. host: other republicans are saying this. and washington some republicans conceded privately they might bear the brunt of any public anger and seemed resigned to an eventual surrender. democrats have all the leverage and we have none. morningington post this

goprts this, unlike most house members, tom coburn lived through the prolonged shutdown of 1995 and early 1996 although the conservative colburn empathizes with a more junior lawmakers. he says the shutdown strategy will end badly for republicans. the associated press reports this this morning. there is at least one constant in the government shutdown. congressembers of continue to be paid at a cost of 10,000 $583.85 per hour to taxpayers. 583.0,

on day two of the government shutdown, jim, republican carter -- republican caller. your previous caller gave the credit to the last balanced budget to president clinton. a government shutdown proceeded that. forced curtail spending. i wonder if she would give an ounce of credit to bob dole and newt gingrich for the balanced budget? i just think it is difficult to see these people get passes. it is already this political.

imagine what government health care will be like in 5-10 years with people getting special vouchers -- vouchers. by the way, you look very nice today. host: thank you. here is what president obama said yesterday. this more than anything else seems to be with republican party stands for these days. i know it is strange that one peopleould make keeping uninsured the centerpiece of their party but that is what it is. what is stranger still is shutting down the government does not accomplish their stated whole. the affordable care act is a law that passed the house, senate. central issue in last years election. it is settled and appeared tuesday.

sourcesof the funding it is not impacted by a government shutdown. president obama talking about the concerted effort to dismantle and defund the affordable care act. yesterday outside the rose garden. the opinion ages today our fall of viewpoints on the government shutdown. here is usa today and what they write. their view is the blame falls squarely on the republicans, saying the reaction is off-base. the shutdown is not the result of two parties acting equally irresponsibly. the product of an increasingly radicalized republican party. the opposing view is written by

kathy morris rogers, serving as the republican conference chairman. she writes this-- that is usa today. the wall street journal editorial page--

that from " the wall street journal" editorial -- by the way, speaking of the washington post, let me show you this headline -- back to the front pages.

caller: i would like to say the republican party no longer believes in the democratic process. for those who think this is about obamacare, this is not about the affordable act, it is this president being as democrats. they did something similar to bill clinton. as soon as they got control of will doe, they said we

everything to try to discredit this president. he got reelected, try to impeach him. they have tont is try to show that democrats do not have any right to government in their country. their birthright to control the government. that is the problem in a nutshell. our cameras were around washington yesterday and then again this morning to show you the impact of the government shutdown as well is what is happening around the city. go other evidence is if you to nasa tv website, this is what you would find. do to the lapse in government funding, this site is not available. that is on nasa tv. other news real quickly, want to let you know president obama's nominee for energy regulatory

has withdrawn the nomination. the former energy regulator strongly backs and was opposed by at least half of the 22 member senate energy committee, including all 10 republicans and at least one democrat. he has withdrawn the nomination. the united nations general assembly happening this week. israel's prime minister spoke yesterday. here is the headline -- if you are interested in that, go to our website. fred, last on the discussion about the government shutdown. it will continue after we talked to fred. fred, independent caller. thank you for c-span. i would like to take it to a higher level if we could. i think all of us need to look

at ourselves as americans and stop letting political parties to find who we are. the power in washington is not working. it does not work consistently for either party. constantly we are stuck with the idea that one is right and one is not right. none of them are really listening to anything that any of us really hope for that they would accomplish. this as americans as split party people we will never be able to change this. we need to bring back the power by rising above it in being americans first. demanding that we limit the federal washington to control lives. way too much power and divide us and conquer. then we can do this at the ballot box. we really need to get rid of a heref all that had been

way too long. they are entrenched in the ideas. of next, you can ask questions to two members of congress. we will talk to jim himes next. from bill-or hear of michigan. we will be right back. >> this house really is florence is house. all the little things in the house, leaded glass by the front door, parquet floors. florence.l she is bringing her influence of

what she has experienced in her life into this marriage, into the house. this is a very personal space for them. >> watched the program on florence harding on the website or see it saturday on c-span, beginning at 7:00 eastern. we continue the series live monday. we look at grace coolidge. during this year's book tv, david nassau spoke about joseph kennedy. >> finally, kennedy could not figure out the mind game with him whether churchill was teasing him or whether he was so drunk he forgot from the day before that he could not drink. the war was over. there had been intense suffering. said i that is hands and am so sorry for your loss.

joe junior had died during the war. he was sincere. he said what good was it all? >> he looked at him unbelieving. world war ii had destroyed. democracy.d it had saved western civilization. he believes to hatred at him. book tv is the only national television network devoted exclusively to non-fiction books every weekend. this fall marking 15 years on c- span two. ticklyve been asked. when were you most afraid during government service.

my service in government spanned the entirety of bush 43 administration from january 20, when askeduary 20 int was the scariest moment, reality it was not the scariest moments and there were more than one. september and october of 2008 when it genuinely appeared and that thewas true global financial system was on the verge of a collapse comparable to or worse than what was experienced during the great depression. this weekend, part one of our conversation with josh fulton sunday night at 8:00 on c-span

q&a. host: welcome back. we are joined by jim himes. thank you for joining us. we are in day to a shutdown. how long do you think this will go?on guest: i was asked that same question last night. who knows. they are standing by their guns. unfortunately a lot of people paying the price for that. are the roadblocks to finding and accord? guest: this republican shutdown is not supported i think by most republicans. by the way, i am a take -- i am at democrats, did not take it

from this democrats. take it from the newspapers that are on different sides of the shutdown. usesall street journal terms like the gop shutdown. the world recognizes what is happening. it is 30-40 people in the house that are holding this holding hostage. --the speaker could hold stand up to those 30-40 people symbolized by ted cruz in the senate, we would get a deal on the floor this morning that would allow the government to reopen and probably one that would get us past the debt ceiling and solve other problems as well. some suggest that it could go to the october 17 deadline. how likely do you think that is and what is the cost if that does happen? i actually think it is somewhat likely. the government shutdown is an inconvenience in painful to a lot of people.

the prospect of a default, the world waking up and say the united states treasury will not , that is at debt catastrophe with a c. this all comes down to when john boehner -- i do not say this with animosity, when he decides he will stand up to the 30-40 people and say no, we will not trash the full faith and credit of the united states government. it might be easier to fold those things into one deal in do the deal. and we move on. really worries me, playing on with the possibility of default. host: what kind of signal what that sent to creditors? have an economic recovery that is weak. it is growing.

growing at two percent gdp. that is not good enough. defaulting on the full faith and credit of the united states it is not just what does that mean for social security checks or medicaid payments or defense spending -- the entire global economy. share of stock, real estate, all valued under the assumption the united states government is risk-free. if the week from now someone says maybe we should default on the debt, all of a sudden capital markets will wake up and say maybe it is not risk-free. when that happens, all hell breaks loose. that cannot be allowed to happen. that is the united states chamber of commerce. probably every ceo in the united states of america that has to run a business. host: a number of ceos meeting with president barack obama. what should his message be?

his message to ceos should be you have a profound stake on the stability of the economy. your companies are valuable in and you employ hundreds of thousands of people. he should say to them it is not me saying we should mess around with the full faith and credit of the united states government. it is a small band of people on capitol hill. the business community often has a voice with the republican party. we would love to take your call. ,or democrats, (202) 737-0001 republicans (202) 737-0002. independence (202) 628-0205. about the ask you specific areas this could impact. we say shutdown, and when

we say shutdown, we forget most federal spending is in three categories, medicare outlays, social security checks and department of defense. most of that spending will not stop. it is really concentrated in civilian contractors, national parks. banks are private entities now for. what it does is it will probably slow down the supervision, maybe take a few of the folks that are monitoring the activities of the banks, either for the federal reserve board fdic. way --ns will not see a a lot in the way of the effect on banks. added 60 two jones points. the average person might wonder, why is that happening? the markets anticipate.

the day after the shutdown which was almost certain, the price gets factored in the day before or the day of. the day the shutdown became obvious there was a drop in the market. i am talking about the possibility of a default of not raising the debt ceiling is before i was in congress, october 2 thousand eight, when the congress failed to pass tarp. down, house was voting it the stock market dropped almost eight hundred points. that will be child's play when the markets decide we will stop paying debt in this country. host: you have worked on wall street. what do you think the reaction is to what is going on now? guest same in thisthe town and around the country,

what is going on in washington and why can't these guys do a deal? what i hear is only if democrats and republicans could come together. there are a lot of republicans with democrats and wanting to do a deal. core tea party years in the house. they holding the government hostage. that is the logjam that needs to break. going to our caller. caller: sometimes when you need a break a long job -- break logjam, you have to hit them by moving all members of congress and the president out of washington to a new city every two years. that would make marijuana and alcoholism happen and much

harder to cover up. there is no valid argument against this from any standpoint. the technology is available to do it. there are at least 20 cities that have convention facilities that could easily accommodate this. it is separated the congress and presidents from bureaucrats. argumentno valid against doing it. it would show the members of congress who was boss. guest: not only is there not a valid argument against this, the early years they moved from new york to philadelphia before finally settling in washington. let me say this, want -- one point that can be made is the shutdown is very painful for a lot of americans and as time goes by, it will be more painful. not just a hundred thousand civilian people who are not getting a paycheck. it is the businesses around the contractors that are not getting

paychecks that are no longer going to have them as customers. this will have a profound economic effect. earlier, we use the word shutdown. medicare checks go out. members of congress get paid. you take us back 240 days. stop taking me and all of my colleagues. i bet you would see a a lot less willingness to go into a shutdown. the government shutdown in 1995 for a month. dowe were really going to you a t-shirt don't have been much less frequently than they do. -- if we were really going to do would see the much less frequently than we do. caller: i think you are a great representative. great for the city of siege for. about -- i think

the republicans are really setting a very bad way for becausees come -- people will remember this. they will remember they shutdown there is no way that people are going to forgive them. they are not being able to come together and do their jobs and do a resolution. i know that when it comes to election time, they are not going to be voted in or be able to take control of the way they did before. people are going to remember they cannot make any common sense decisions.

no one is going to trust them with the debt ceiling. these people cannot even do their jobs. guest: it is great to hear from the home district. llat is why you see the "wa street journal" editorial page. they recognize that that is going to happen again today. americans have good common sense. they know what is happening here. we are talking about a budget that allows the federal government to run for a couple of months at a level we have all agreed at. we are not happy with this level. this is the sequester level. we have agreed on the level of the budget. here we have a budget discussion.

we are all in agreement. one size says they are going to repeal obamacare. they are going to do away with the health care reform act. people have differing opinions about the health care act. americans understand when you have an agreement on the budget number, you cannot say, "we want to repeal this law of the land." about anant to ask you rticle that appeared on "the hill. host: can you respond to that? guest: that is just the height of cynicism. a government shutdown hurts real people. a family that scraped up a lot

of money to take a vacation and they get here and they cannot see the sights. there are people without paychecks. a government shutdown is not good for everybody. we are talking about american human beings. out, this isnted .oing to further enrage people is not allcans -- it republicans. they will pay a significant price. maryland, gofrom ahead. caller: good morning, congressman. thank you for your service. is because problem of the rules that are apple will

to the congress -- that are pplicable to congree, there should be some looking ahead, be it six years, 10 set a point of time where the rules will change. you cannot have amendments to bills that are completely unrelated to the bill. republicans have a fair accusation here. it is crazy to bring a bill to vote within a day of one the vote is held. bill,ery 50 pages in a you get a work day that it has to be open for discussion or debate. the filibuster is a farce. i cannot imagine europeans

looking at a senator reading dr. seuss to his kids, taking up everybody's time in such a ridiculous way. the deb reduction -- debt off then, take it table completely. have been factor in and in no way that is intelligible to get something else that you want. aheadn't they look way and change the rules for something like that? guest: those are some rate suggestions -- great suggestions. people often identify the filibuster and 2000-page bills. it is a real problem to read those bills. i think your suggestions are good. they only go so far.

we have some fundamental arguments in this country. look back over our history. we usually run deficits. why do we run deficits? "i would gladly pay you tomorrow for a cheeseburger today," as the old popeye cartoon goes. democrats like head start and the programs. everybody does not want to pay for them. that means raising the level of taxes. that is a natural tension. maybe there is a cost fixed seven years down the road. the idea for rule change is very good. there are these tensions within a democracy that are going to be hard to manage regardless. another republican is who gets

the media time? it is not the pragmatic people in the senate who are coming together. it is the folks who go on to the floor and read "green eggs and ham." are those who call the president a traitor or call the president an idiot. there are a lot of good people who are trying to find solutions. host: matt on our line for republicans. caller: good morning. it is my birthday today. happy birthday. are you there? >> happy 39th birthday -- guest: happy 39th earth

birthday. caller: i have to say you are wrong. you said americans have common sense. the range rover with the motorcycles and mr. obama with a bill that he knew along with the rest of them who signed it and passed it, that things were going to happen. 100% going to happen. in california, nobody is hiring full-time. it is absolutely scary to see how fast the businesses just shut their doors to people that just need the full-time work. 0 a month for55 anthem blue cross. these premiums i am hearing on television and radio are almost

in line with anthem lacrosse -- blue cross. i do not see any 25-year-old paying a premium for insurance. we should see how it goes. to see if it a year people are going to sign up. let's use common sense and not be naïve. thank you very much. guest: happy 39th birthday. i think most americans have common sense. i have to quarrel with one of your statements. no full-time hiring. since the bottom of the recession, there have been almost 8 million jobs added in this country. about 200,000 on average per month. those are the facts.

it is far from good enough. we probably need double that number to get the economy going. big companies are not affected from hiring full-time. a statement made by fox news and glenn beck. it is completely unsupported by the evidence. we have been adding jobs very rapidly. you said the health care reform is going to be so terrible. went to of americans - the exchanges to check out if they could finally get health insurance. the exchange signed up 180 people on day one in connecticut. lies a bald faced perpetrated by the other side. millions of americans thought

they might be able to get health insurance for the first time in their lives. today many other thousands of americans will sign up to access reasonably affordable health insurance. for people with diabetes or cancer, there are going to be some great stories. healthe going to have insurance for the first time in their lives. that is a new thing for this country. host: is the debate about the budget or health care? guest: it is totally about health care. republicans said we will shut down the government unless you cut spending. have you heard one republican say the word "spending" around the debt ceiling? they have not. the budget is in better shape

than it was two years ago. we got more work to do but it is moving in the right direction. they decided to try peter the health care reform -- they decided to try to torpedo the health care reform. this will give millions of americans health care for the first time. they are calling it government takeover health care. they are going to worry that what happened yesterday is going to happen. it is going to succeed. if health care reform succeeds, what has the republican party been doing for the last four years? host: guest: our line for -- host: our line for democrats. caller: we don't have to wait a

year. int check romney-care massachusetts. anyone deceitful in their work there. remember, we'll answer for our deeds. eay better unplug their rs and back this country up. guest: thank you, hannah. this is how absurd the argument is. we did a balmy care come from -- where did obamacare come from? the individual mandate is an uncomfortable thing. it came from the heritage foundation, a right-wing think tank. the affordable care act got a

trial run by a republican in massachusetts. this grew out of a right wing think tank and was implemented by a republican governor and being characterized as socialism. this is where we are. d ass being characterize socialist. that is the kind of debate the american public should be concerned about in washington, d.c., today. host: ray in pennsylvania. caller: good morning. i want to respectfully disagree with the time was men. my son was recently laid off from a plant that made plastics. everybody is laid off. these companies are telling the owner of this company that

, this thing being implemented, will be too expensive. they will not spend the money to renovate. there are hundreds of companies across this country that are doing the same thing, laying people off. you are talking about people being able to get health care. who is going to pay for it? that is where the debt ceiling comes in. all you are doing is our wing into the future. who is going to pay this debt? borrowingare doing is into the future. you cut off the cell phones for the welfare. you have plenty of money. this debt ceiling is nothing but a bunch of garbage. we are not going to default.

the interest on the debt will be paid. there is money coming in. you have to cut your spending. we will get rid of the pet projects. why don't you go on the health care? you and your staff. why don't you do that? host: thank you so much. guest: i am sorry about your son. there are a lot of americans who are still suffering economically because of a recession that grew out of the nightmare that was the financial meltdown in the real estate market and wall street and we are still feeling profound effects on that. let me clear one thing up. people need to research this. far from having democrats oppose

the notion that we go into the exchanges, there is one group of people today who are required by law to go into the exchanges. members of congress and their staff are required to give up their government health care exchanges. into the the loudmouths on the right wing are saying we exempted ourselves. the opposite is true. today i payening is about $500 a month from my health insurance today. my employer makes a contribution. what is going to happen when i get kicked off mike plan -- off my plan and go to the exchanges, the government will continue to

pay that contribution and i will continue to pay my contribution when i go on to the exchanges. this idea that congress exempted itself from the health care reform is one of the better examples of the ms. information that is put out there because it is in the interest of a certain group of right-wing extremists that make the american people hate their government. there are plenty of good reasons to hate your government. it is simply not true. the health care reform says if you have more than 50 employees, you have to cover your employees or pay a penalty into the pot so that there is money to cover people that are not covered by their employers.

well more than 90% of the businesses in this country have no obligation to cover their employees. most of the businesses over 50 employees already have plans. there are going to be a small number of businesses affected by this employer mandate. it may be as high as 95% of businesses are not subject to that requirement that they cover their employees. host: you have mentioned this group of extremists on the other side of the aisle. how do you come together and work with them? guest: i would like to perpetuate this golden idea that every member of congress could come together and get a deal done. that is not true. this is true in both parties.

you have people who are unyielding. that is probably a nicer word than "extreme." you form a center and allow moderate republicans to work with pragmatic democrats. the bomb throwers on both sides throw their bonds but they -- throw their bombs, but they do not get to call the shots. back i donell, because speaker boehner said i will put forth a proposal that might tea party is going to hate but a lot of democrats and republicans will vote for. that is the way out of the mess we're in today. extremeing to make the democrats and republicans angry. host: charles in washington on

our line for democrats. caller: greetings from the pacific northwest. i would like to address the health care act, which we have a lot of incentive that has been delivered to us. congress seemed to want to put it back in instead of looking at the things that perhaps need to be readjusted in the care plan. it is a growing infant. we have to make adjustments. these poorstructing people. andve a medical background i have seen time and time again, children, adults that have no health care plan. i happen to have a health care plan.

on the farm here, i crushed my hand in an accident. by the time all was said and done with surgery and therapy, the bill came to over $45,000. family withine a is a children whose dad that would be horrendous bill for people without health care. guest: yeah. thank you for your observation. you know what the leading cause for individual bankruptcy in the united states of america is? stumbling into some kind of health care emergency. $50,000 inuninsured,

bills is not an unusual occurrence. the bills can get into the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars. you mortgage your house and you are bankrupt. that is not right. that is not a citizen we should be proud of. 15 million americans without coverage. the emergency room is not designed for checkups. this is a deeply broken system. i will not try to convince everybody that health care was perfect. insurance company reform when they spent $.80 of every dollar in premium on health care. people with pre-existing conditions can get insurance. these are good things.

are there bad things in there? absolutely. history, of american the opposition did what oppositions are supposed to do. we do not like it and we will fight it on the floor. the passage to ease of medicare and social security. the approach that has been taken today by the gop is not the traditional approach. we'll try to get some of the good stuff we want in. were point of view has been are going to shut down the government and intentionally default on the nation's debt. we hate this law so much that we will hold the government hostage to make it go way.

host: last night house republicans fought for three spending bills. those did not pass. why isn't this the right way to go? guest: think about the precedent it sets. we come up with one big budget that funds onto stuff i like, lots of stuff i do not like. you do it all. if one party in one house is allowed to say six pieces of the government we like so we will fund them but we don't like those four, we will not fund those. we go to chaos. that is one house of a two- hoursse congress. that is no way to run the

country. they wanted to fund the veterans. another was washington, d.c. another was national parks. i could have added a couple myself. that veterans bill had $6 billion in cuts for veterans services against the budget he passed before. that is not the way we have ever done this. missouri on our line for republicans. caller: good morning. i have a quick comment and a question. how long would it take with the shutdown for the president to be able to declare a national emergency and follow through with the majority? i do not know the answer

to that question. nationalsure what a emergency whaould entail. house led republican by newt gingrich shut down the government for what turned out to be about a month. 1995ok about a month in for the american people to apply enough pressure to congress to cause the shutdown to end. we do not have the luxury of a the debtause we hit ceiling in about two weeks. a deal needs to be made before that. you could pay the interest on the debt and not other stuff. other stuff is soldier

paychecks, medicare, and social security checks. most of the spending is medicare, doctors for senior citizens, social security, and defense. you could come up with some crazy scheme to pay the interest on our debt. but then what? you will cut social security checks and half? that is not a place we want to go. host: thank you so much for joining us. next up we will be joined by representatives bill huizenga. later our spotlight on our magazine series. but first an update from c-span radio. >> torres traveling to omaha tourists traveling to omaha beach are finding it is

closed because of the partial shutdown. the fight over looking the beach is is one of 24 u.s. military cemeteries overseas that have closed to visitors as of yesterday. they are maintained by a commission was set up after the first world war. nearly 125,000 servicemen and women are buried at the ceremonies -- cemeteries. work by international inspectors in syria has begun. the group left their hotel in damascus earlier. as the civil war continues on the edge of the capital. no word about any arrest in florida after two suspicious packages were found. jacksonville international airport was evacuated yesterday but has since reopened. one of the packages had a

destructive nature. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> rosa parks and martin luther me tor. inspired find a way to get in the way. we went down to the public trying to alabama, get library cards, trying to check out some books. we were told the library was for whites only and not for eds.r i never went back to the library. onjohn lewis is our guest sunday. he will take your calls and comments live for three hours. but for kitty kelly on november

3. january 5.vin "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. we're joined by representative bill huizenga of michigan. thank you for joining us. day two. shutdown how long is this going to last? guest: i wish i knew. i do not think this is ideal. we are having a philosophic problem here. we have got a senate and some of my colleagues in the house who are refusing to fund or have discussions about funding some of these bills. they want the whole thing. i think that is unfortunate. host: what are some of the

biggest stumbling blocks? guest: the spending level. house republicans have given some ground on that. we are not at the sequester level. it is about $12 billion more than what the sequester level is. to see somee reforms to the health-care law. we know and the administration admits that obamacare is not ready for prime time. by saying the employer mandate doesn't have to be enforced by the individual mandate does, by missing deadlines, by having carveouts for the clinically connected --that is an admission that this is not ready. i believe we need to hit the pause button. we are trying to move forward to

fix parts of it. we would have the individuals be covered just like the employers are covered. for this is too much administration to accept. host: we heard lawmakers try to bring three bills to the floor yesterday. that did not pass. explain the dynamics. guest: a majority of the house agreed, including a number of democrats that voted for those bills. they were having being done by suspension. that means we did not go to the regular order rules process. we wanted to get to these immediately. that requirement says you have to have 2/3 of the house vote in

favor of it. the vast majority of the house decided to vote no. funding, to d.c. run the fire department and the police station. it was also making sure our veterans have the same benefits they are currently getting. and opening up the national parks. i think that one is timely. i was asked earlier, why those? that is not the end. we will move forward with other parts of the budget. there is nothing more symbolic ofn welcome a number world war ii veterans. it is unconscionable that the parks department has blocked these open air memorials that are open up 24 hours a day,

seven days a week, block them off from access. if that is the petty kind of games they are going to play, we need to respond to that. host: some argue sending these bills aside is picking winners and losers. guest: it is the regular process we should be doing. we do not pass a budget all in one lump. we pass spending bills. we passed four of them. we were making some difficult decisions. the senate decided to do nothing. our leadership made the right decision, in my opinion. "we cannot get them to talk about it. there is no sense in getting

through the rest of the exercise." we tried passing a large cr that would fund the entire government. they would not accept that. now we have to do it budget by budget. that is how it would normally be done in a regular budget assess. they simply want to have their cake and eat it, too. that is not how democracy works. that is not how our constitution is structured. host: do you believe the health- care law is a bigger threat to the economy than the government shutdown? guest: temporarily, yes. i think the government shutdown will be temporary. bemacare is going to damaging to our economy. costs far that the

outweigh the benefits. like a pre- things existing condition should be covered and a number of other smaller parts of it. we can get to those things. when you see this massive consolidation of power, that is going to be problematic. businesses cannot handle that. ping ofhaving a war our economy. my nephew is trying to put himself through university back in michigan. the restaurant where he works -- he is a waitor. "sorry, nobody will be working more than 20 hours a week." that was tough on andrew.

then he started tell me about his colleagues. the single mom. "how am i going to pick up another waitressing job?" it is warping the reactions from the this is community. we are seeing it all over the place. absolutely it is a huge problem we have to deal with. host: we would love to take your calls. for democrats, 202-585-3880. republicans, 202-585-3881. the number for independents, 202-585-3882. take a listen to something losier losey said -- pe said. [video clip] >> here we are back on the floor of the house to once again go

back a path to defund the affordable care act. it is not going to happen. we can all sing the praises of our leadership. cutting them off from other services of the interior department. that is curious. it is not about the park. it is about the affordable care act. i urge my colleagues to see this for what it is. it is pathetic. it is not responsible. it is beneath the dignity. i keep saying that. we keep getting further beneath the dignity. let us reject this. they took hostages at shutting down the government. now they are releasing one hostage at a time. now is the parks. later it is veterans. guest: i would agree with leader

pelosi. it is pathetic. my democratic colleagues are not negotiating at all. refusing to negotiate. i represent part of gerald ford's old congressional district. there was a piece in week ago about shutdowns in "the washington post." they cited the bill that gerald ford vetoed that put us into a shutdown. congress wanted to spend more. look at what jimmy carter did. five different shutdowns in four years. a number of them have to do with abortion funding. to say we have never gone through this before is simply not true. ronald reagan had eight

shutdowns having to do with a number of things. george h.w. bush had one. bill clinton had the longest with newt gingrich. it seems to me that this is not about defunding obamacare at this point. this is about making sure we have services functioning properly. logic sher pelosi's, should have voted against making sure our man and woman in uniform getting paid. the president signed that. why? because we think it is important. if making sure that arends being covered is about defunding obamacare, she should have voted no. if it was about making sure washington, d.c., was to the operating under its own power,

she should have voted no. she did but not all of her colleagues did. this is about making sure we have a functioning government. when you have one side that refuses to sit down and then says this is all about the tea party. really? so newt gingrich was the tea party? was typical meal the tea party ip o'neil/ica ll? byrd?out robert howard baker? they are trying to use scare tickets. host: how much more like it doesn't make the u.s. will default on its debt? guest: a number of my colleagues are trying to tie them together.

this is about funding government. the other is whether we will be paying off our debts. the president said he would not allow anybody to hold hostage the spending that has already occurred. that is something else. that is the debt ceiling. this is about funding the government. i believe we should be honoring the debts that we have. i voted for the republican study commission budget. that is a very tough budget. it does not balance for four years. ron paul proposed a budget. we have to realize we do have obligations and we are on a ship that we are turning in the wrong direction. we have turned the wheel of the ship. it is going to take time to move that ship around.

my friends and colleagues on the who are very frustrated about what is going on. we have to realize is going to take time for us to get out of this and to balance the budget you need to have a glide path to do that. that debt limit is a different animal that we need to deal with as well. i believe we are going to find accommodation there. we do have to make sure that we meet our obligations. we have to make sure our future obligations not getting us further into hock. host: paul underlined for republicans. caller: good morning. paul on our line for republicans. caller: thank you for taking my call.

i did not think the proposal was going anywhere. i think that is what happened. your second proposal did exactly the opposite. democrats, republicans, independents can understand that congress and staff should be treated the same way as the american people. i do not understand why the president exempted through think theorder and i congressman from connecticut was completely disingenuous when he said he could get it through his private employer and therefore he could get it through the federal government. if it is that good, go back to your private employer. your second or postal change the amount them. i think the shutdown is on the side of the democrats. i you stick to your guns.

thank you for taking my call. guest: thanks, paul. i think this is about fairness and equal treatment under the law. a number of my colleagues voted for it. i was not here when obamacare past. my colleagues voted knowing that this provision was in place. they were going to be losing their ability to keep their federal health care. they knew that. unless you do guy the line that had.r pelosi maybe she was surprised by this. it was a pretty public amendment was put in place in the senate. they knew it was coming and voted for it anyway. i think the american people have every reason to be outraged that they have been exempted from a

provision within the law. you can argue the rightness or wrongness in whether an employer may are may not provide health care for their employees. the federal government is not your normal employer. they have passed it into law. two ignore the law is a responsible. no wonder there is cynicism from the american people. it makes me cynical as a policymaker. people are separating themselves and they should be covered under the exact same way. if that piece of the law you voted for, you should be able to live by the provisions. host: ray from nevada on our line for democrats. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think the fact that speaker

boehner, his unwillingness to put this on the floor -- is ists your cr. you can deny it all you want. if you were trying to avoid the shutdown, you would have put it on there and shown america there was support for the clean cr. the --not willing to be called up by the actual name of the law provides the people who are watching these ads and billionaires spend billions of brothers- the coke are trying to spend more money koch brothers are

trying to spend more money. because of the loopholes and such. all that aside. your party wasted 21 hours and 19 minutes. host: it sounds like we are loose you a little bit. guest: i wish ray would get a strong opinion. i hope that you call the white house and you e-mail the white house and tell the president to quit calling it obamacare. itself.the term affordable and is not bring more people into the system. iwould point out that -- assume you are talking about senator cruz. technically it was not a filibuster.

that was a cooling off period. i do not know all the rules of the senate. was cut a period that off by senator reed when the hell that first original cloture vote. the u.s.d 24 hours was senate. . stay into my chamber they decided not to return back to work until monday at 2:00. that is unconscionable. host: there was a leadership failure by john boehner, according to "the new york times." guest: this is something that i believe my constituents feel passionately about. my constituents do not want a government shutdown and i agree

with them. they also do not want the provisions of the affordable care act to be going through the way it is currently structured. they know it doesn't work. whether it is students are employers. the average 27-year-old male in michigan will be seeing a 52% increase in their premiums for that entry-level health care plan. 52% increase. the average 27-year-old female will see a 60% increase. this is major. we are not talking about a family of four or a family of seven. we are not talking about elderly people. we are talking about young people who typically do not access health care that often. we will see massive increases in the cost that is going into

these plans. independents.or caller: hi. thank you for having me. these politicians think americans are naïve. i know watching all this that i believe history is trying to repeat itself. this shutdown happen because it is being monitored by a bunch of men, whoed old white are treating president obama as if he doesn't know who he is or what he is doing. everybody knows republicans tried to defund obamacare of the affordable care act. they are trying to back door it and make it look like it is so bad. how can you assess something if it is not allowed to run

through? i believe the republicans -- i do not know who was lying or not. guest: i appreciate you noticing my gray hair but i am only 44 and i have a young family. that is the reason why i got engaged in this. i could not sit back on the couch and yell at the tv. that is why i am here. i believe my action towards the president nothing but respectful of the office. man hasas won -- the legitimate won a second term. jennifer granholm was the governor and we had control of the house of representatives and the state senate. it was split senate. i diagnosed it to the governor. she did not have a relationship with the legislature.

president obama has the same situation. he has little to no relationship with those on capitol hill. that is why he started the speed dating over the last six or eight months. by democratic colleagues will tell you the same thing. they do not have a relationship with him either. this administration has been terrible in having a relationship with capital health. go back to ronald reagan. and bill clinton. they had the ability to go back and sit down and have a trust level. that is the problem. i forgot the name. with you that the american people are not naïve. the people paying in and tuning

in are not naïve at all. they do know what is going on. we have a clear message. they do not want or like obamacare the way it is currently written. that is maybe a clash of opinions that the american people have. that is something i have to deal with and go in and weigh the benefits and make sure their voices are heard. host: kathy on our line for republicans. caller: good morning. are you aware that a third tower fell on 9/11? host: we will stick to this topic today. our line for democrats. thank you for taking my call. i have two kids and i am

married. i don't have a problem with special provisions on obamacare because in the past -- my whole thing is, why shut down so many jobs that people need to afford the obamacare or the affordable care act? why do this at a time when we are trying to rebuild the economy? is putting a bigger monkey on the back of america. respectfully need to disagree with you on something. -tierould you accept a two legal system? one set of laws applies to everybody else and one set of laws replies to those who are governing?

i am a history geek. i love to read history. i am reading a book about the history of the capital. i often go down to the national archives to look at what our founding fathers had to say about things and to see those documents. our government in the united states was not derived from god into one family like it was, and that was the argument for the british kings. what it said was our god-given us to then choose to government and we needed make sure there was an equal application of the law. that is a fundamental foundation of our government. wel we start violating that, get ourselves into trouble. why should i be obeying the speed limits or the tax laws?

a few of my colleagues are in jail right now because they do not follow the tax laws and a few others were censured because they forgot about investments or rental properties that they owned. two-ti start having that ered legal system, we are going in the opposite direction of what are founding fathers envisioned. ahead.ohn from ohio, go caller: hello? john.hi hi, caller: yes. guest: your time. caller: i have been watching c- span for the last couple of weeks and all these hearings and the proposal made by the republican party. virtually every one of them is filled with half-truths.

a good example is what the congressman from connecticut he for you explained is making a big deal about the congressman being not included in the exchanges. he made it clear that january, beginning next year, they will be included in the exchanges. it is ms. information like this beenthe koch brothers have spreading across the airwaves to further confuse the masses out there by suggesting these audacious lies. they better stop. guest: than me correct you on that. it sounds like you need to have the koch brothers on the show. i have not said anything about where i'm getting my health care. the law says we have to go into the state exchanges. that includes my staff.

they have to go into a michigan exchange. the law says an employer cannot force someone to go into an exchange than pay for that. that is the exemption. that is the two-tiered system here. sorry, every other employer in the united states am a you need to abide by that, but the congress doesn't need to adhere to that. that is where we are seeing the two-tiered application of the law. has nothing to do with where we are going to be receiving that. we are going to be out of the federal and please health care system. that is a given. where we are going to be getting it is our home state exchanges, but it is how it is being paid for, that is where the rub is and that is where the violation of the law is and why the office of personnel management had to put this exemption in. host: west virginia, our line for republicans. caller: yes, good morning.

guest: morning. caller: hey, how are you? guest: i'm doing ok. i'm serious to see if someone calling in on the republican line actually is a republican this morning. caller: all the way, buddy. my question is, why wouldn't they use the buffer of that's why wouldn't they use the welfare from the state to change everything around, and they can work off that where the money can go back to the states for the health-care part of it? guest: you are talking about doing some sort of block grant? caller: well, what i'm saying is if you are on low income and you are done on welfare, therefore, thecan't the states -- federal help out the states through the welfare system to help these people and then they could pay so much into the -- moreof the premiums or less the revenue of the money through the states?

guest: i think i know where you are coming from, and having spent six years in the michigan state legislature, a tremendous amount of our budget, 40% of michigan's budget, is a dollars from the federal government. welfare, medicaid, snap and other programs, most of them get administered by the state. i'm a big proponent of block granting those things. i also believe the states ought to be determining how and who is eligible for those provisions. we have some sort of basic safety net at the federal level, and then allow the states flexibility. when governor john engler, now head of the business roundtable here in washington, d.c. -- he spent 12 years as governor prior michiganor granholm in -- that was one of the main fights he had with of the federal government, as did tommy thompson, who went on to become

health and human services secretary. it was over those welfare reforms and trying to make sure that they could put pork provisions and, drug testing, all of the different items that, at the time, i recall, were going to lead to the total annihilation of the underclass. that didn't happen. in fact, there is story after story -- i have met these people as well who came and said, you know what come i didn't like it when it was happening but it forced me to get my life turned around and forced me to do things i was not necessarily thinking i could or should do and, you know what, by forcing me to go into an education program, i was able to turn my life around, and they are doing something in a different field .han what they had been in if it had not been for the prompting, that requirement, they would in all likelihood still be sitting around trying to wait for a check, and that is not a productive part of society. we need to make sure that we are not just -- the old adage,

give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach them how to fish and he eats for a lifetime. that is what it ought to be about building a skill level to allow them to be successful in creating an nanosphere that allows them to be successful. host: i want to ask you briefly about the effect the physical fight and the shutdown will have on our financial markets. what is that going to look like? guest: the dow was up yesterday could you saw a jans coming out of new york, the s&p and others. they are sort of bumping along, and sitting on the financial services committee, i am on the subcommittee dealing with capital markets. i watch this stuff pretty closely. are of the people that involved and engaged in this don't believe there is going to be a long-term effect. small term bumps here and there

that may be coming along. the problem is, though, we have got two quick -- quit worrying so much about wall street and make sure we are worrying about main street. honestly, i love my friends up in new york, but most of them could care less what carcass they are feeding on. they just need the carcass. we have got to make sure that we are creating laws and provisions that are not just going to benefit the folks on wall street and in new york. we have got to make sure that we are taking care of our main investors,s, regular making sure they are not getting cheated out of opportunities as well. there is a lot of people up on wall street that have benefited from quantitative easing, easy money policies that the fed has been carrying out from bailouts, from different coverages that

have gone on. we have got to make sure that when not focusing just on them. we are focusing on real people back in the heartland. host: michele in uniontown, pennsylvania, on our line for democrats. caller: yes, hello? guest: good morning, michelle. caller: good morning. i just wanted to put something out there. when you were talking about part-time and the cost of obamacare, i am 50 years old and i can remember when i was 17, 18, i got a job, and the guy gave me 39.5 hours could i cannot get the last half hour to get the benefits. that has been going on for years. number two, sir, i don't understand -- obamacare all what he went through the process. -- already went to the process. why can't you just let this go through and if the american people don't like it, let that happen the way it is supposed to happen. i don't understand what the problem is. why can't it go the way it is supposed to go? guest: the way it is supposed to

go isn't working. we know it is not working, the administration is not working. otherwise, the president would not have signed 17 different changes to the law, as he has done already. he would not have offered an employer exemption. he would not be going after these carveouts for unions and other folks that are politically connected. that is why, frankly, the head of the a full cio, the teamsters -- the head of the afl-cio, the teamsters, and others in the union movement who pushed for this are coming back and saying, hey, we are concerned about this 40-hour workweek provision. we are concerned this will hurt working men and women. i agree with them. my family kind of wears two hats . i am from the west side of the state, michigan in the grand rapids area. it tends to be a conservative area. my mom is from flint could my family has a rich, long history in the union movement. my grandfather was part of the first sitdown strikes at gm back in the day, the white shirt

sitdown strikes. i have a real empathy and understanding of what that means to working men and women, because that is what my family is. this is a threat to that. they don't want to think about those invitations kid they didn't think about it at the time. a lot of us were telling them that this was up to potential, possibility, and unfortunately we turn out to be right. " because irtunately wish that was in case, but that is what is happening. host: north carolina on our line for republicans. caller: thank you. hostguest: hi, ed. caller: i want to address something representative hines said, but i also want to say that the way that the democrats are portraying the tea party and the weight that their demeaning representatives like yourself, they ignore the word before your name, "for presented i --

"representative." they are not supposed to do is they want. they are supposed to do with their constituents are asking them to do by the majority. most of their constituents want them to stand up to overturn this bad law and that is what they are obligated to do. this wouldn't even be law if some democrats hadn't ignored their constituents, because it never had a majority popular opinion in the country. back to what i called about, the carveout that representative hines and democrats are basically lying about. the way i understand it is if i make, say, $75,000 a year, and i don't region exchange -- maybe i had private insurance through my employer, but now i am going to the exchange. if a representative or their staff go into the same exchange and the they exceed the 400% of the national poverty level, they

are still going to get a subsidy and i will be denied that subsidy. that is the carveout. for them to say they are not getting the benefit is just dishonest. it is a lie. host: thank you, ed. we will have the commerce man respond. guest: ed, you are right, you are absolutely right. i want to touch on that "representative" part as well. the market people had a status quo election this past election. they said, yes, we want barack obama back, we want harry reid as senate majority leader again, and yes, we want john boehner to continue as speaker of the house . that was loud and clear. in talking to my own friends and family, they are frustrated. they would like to see more action. but they also told me, "we are glad you are there to hit the brakes a bit and make sure we are not going off the road here in a direction we shouldn't be going." i'm reminded, as you were bringing that up -- i'm not sure

i could disagree more with barney frank, the former ranking member of the committee that i serve on, or that i could disagree more with ranking member maxine waters right now. but that does not mean i can go in and say they are not legitimately elected by their constituents. the same thing coming back to me. you go back to my district, and despite our overall nine percent approval rating, if i continue with that 9% approval rating, you will have a new congressman next election. i don't think that is going to be the case. we have to make sure we have our thoughts and wishes in mind as we are making these decisions. sometimes we get additional information that causes us to go in a slightly different direction. that is all part of representative government. we are a representative government could we are not a directly true town hall-style

democracy like in new england. but at the end of the day we have to make sure that the laws as they were written and as they are adopted are applied to everybody equally. that is not what is happening. i believe at the end of the day, no matter what opm has said, no matter what the it ministration is said, matter what my colleagues have said, this ruling is going to get challenged, i believe it goes to the courts, and i believe they lose. i believe that will be taken away. frankly, i think we ought to do it now and have the conversation right now, and the fact that i have got colleagues in the house, or colleagues in the senate who want to stick their heads in the sand and say no, we want exactly -- we wanted to be exactly the way it is now, that is pollyannaish and not even being realistic. that is why we need to have that equal application. host: one more call, congressman. georgia on our line for independents. caller: good morning, sir. how are you? guest: i'm doing ok, actually.

how are things in georgia? caller: we are doing well. independent, i am and quite likely, i think what we are witnessing is the implosion of the public and party. let me explain why. i need your help. you are a student of history, is that right? guest: uyes. caller: ok. let's talk about recent history. newt gingrich from georgia served up a contract with america a few years back. 2 simple questions -- number one, why did they not get the health care problem fixed then? republicans were pretty much in charge at that time. the second thing is this -- how is it that this same group of people seem to suggest that they have all the answers now? they didn't get it fixed event, and all of a sudden they have all the answers. can you help me understand why have a point of view?

guest: sure, no problem. you said that the republicans were pretty much in charge of everything. i would take a little bit of umbrage could former president clinton would disagree with that as well. you may recall something called hillary care. it was in some ways the carerative obama equivalent in the mid-1990s when president clinton was elected and they were going through that process. it was 1994 when you saw the massive, massive wave, two years after clinton was elected and hillarycare was starting to be the discussion and the direction the country was headed. the country reacted by having a historic election in 1994 that swept in untold numbers of republicans into office that hit the brakes to say, wait a minute, this is not a direction we want to go. that is truly what happened.

why was it not fixed? you had divided government and there were attempt at doing things that have improved and need to improve. anybody in health care -- i have a sister who is a physical therapist for my brother-in-law who is a doctor, i have a sister-in-law who is a nurse. they will tell you that the health-care system is broken, it doesn't work, and if you were starting over again, you would not create the monster we currently have. the question is how do we deal with what we currently have and either totally get rid of it, which is going to be very difficult, or modify it dramatically? one of the philosophical problems that we have is the affordable care act, obamacare, actually puts insulation in between us as patients and our health care decisions. it ought to be the exact .pposite they are removing us from the

decision-making and we ought to be closer to it. i think that audit be done through health savings accounts. nothing focuses your medical decisions more than seeing your real dollars being put into it. as people walk in and say, "i don't know the difference between an x-ray or a cat scan. all i know is my blue card or whatever else i am carrying, here is what my copious." -- here is what my co-pay is." that is wrong, that is unfortunate. maybe we would not see such increases. host: representative bill huizenga, thank you for joining us. guest: thanks, appreciate it. host: next up, zoe carpenter from "the nation" in our "spotlight on magazines." first, an update from c-span radio. >> representative peter king says that tea party back members of the house republican congress

-- house republicans caucus are trying to "hijack the party." the new york republican says that increasing numbers of republicans, perhaps 100, are growing weary of what he calls the ted cruz wing of the party. he also criticized president obama for wendy's -- for "standing down from the fight, saying he cannot imagine john f. kennedy or ronald reagan adopting such a stance during a crisis. himself a, who calls blue-collar conservative, says there are meetings among republicans today with the aim of assaulting the stalemate that forced -- solving the stalemate that forced the shutdown, saying that rank-and-file republicans are tired of this policy. updated job numbers this hour from adp. their latest survey shows that u.s. businesses added 166,000 jobs last month, again that suggest that hiring continues to improve at a modest pace.

adp's figures are often different from the government's war comprehensive jobs report, but that may be the only measure of hiring for eight while as the labor department will have to delay the jobs report scheduled for this friday if the government shutdown goes past today. president obama is canceling two stops on his long planned trip to asia because of the government shutdown. the president was set to leave saturday night for a 4-nation tour. he will still travel to indonesia and brunei that is calling off the final two steps in malaysia and the philippines. those are the latest headlines on c-span radio. mooing] >> cowboys mean a great deal to montana. our largest industry in the state is agriculture, the raising of livestock being a huge part of that. woman or need a man or

young person that can get on a horse, take care of the livestock, whether it is bringing them into polar cap for taking them to a new pastor -- breaking them into pulled a caf or taking them to a new pasture, and shooting them with dignity because what you sell is a pound of beef. when the cowboy culture began, ors man or woman or person cowboy had to to live in all of the elements. they had to dress accordingly. days, they really .ust had animal skins no modern textiles to repel the water or rain or snow. they would cover their bodies

with leather apparel. these are called chaps, ch aperos, derived from the spanish word. >> more cowboys and cattle from big sky country as booktv in american history tv look at the history and literary life of billings, montana, this weekend saturday at noon eastern on c- span two and sunday at 5:00 on c-span3. bring the book affairs events from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings and conferences, offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house all as a public service of private industry. by the cable tv industry 34 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. you can watch us in hd. >> "washington journal"

continues. host: welcome back. in our last hour of "washington journal" on wednesdays, we take a look at magazine articles with our "spotlight on magazines" series. today we go digital with a piece from the "nation" website. zoe carpenter is here with her piece, "government shutdown will hit federal workers, poor americans." best: 800,000 workers will furloughed without pay and no guarantee of retroactive pay. everybody else is working but also not receiving pay. some people need that money to comment in on time and it will be difficult for families. federal workers have seen pay cuts, pay freezes, six furlough days this year. there have been layoffs because of the sequester. these are people who are already hurting. host: what does it mean to get

furloughed? guest: you are not laid off but you are not working. you stay home without pay until your call back. host: essential versus nonessential -- explain that. guest: some workers are deemed essential. homeland security investigators. members of the space station. members of congress are essential and will be paid on time -- that is the irony of this. nonessential workers would be people like epa employees. that agency has had a lot of workers furloughed, most of the agency. the national park staff. it really creates a division. service members who are on active duty are working but civilians working for the military are not. host: how many furloughed workers -- maybe i don't have the exact number, but how much -- how many of these workers have union representation in our government? guest: a fair number, i believe.

several unions have spoken out against this and they are making the point that the workers are feeling the pain of the sequester and other budget cuts over the years. these are not people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars. the average salary, i was told by one of the union presidents, is around $35,000 to $40,000 a year for their members. we are talking about people who are working in the middle class, and they really depend on their salaries. host: how are they told about the government shutting down and the process and whether they had to come to work? guest: the agencies went through individually and determine who is essential and nonessential. it would be internal deliberation and then they would've been told by the staff at the agencies. not sure exactly how it played out with each specific agency, but they would have had some notice at least. but we did not know what was going to happen until the very last minute. there was a lot of anticipation on whether we might pass a last- minute resolution, so it could have been very much a shock. on day one, nonessential

employees were allowed to come to work partly. what happened there? guest: they come to work and then they wrap things up and close things down and go. host: what happens now that we are in day 2? guest: they still don't come to work and we just wait until they bring things back. ok,: how are they told, you return to work now? guest: they are contacted by their employers. when it happens. everything is on standstill. host: the second part of your story is on poor americans. is government shutdown impacting what programs that are for poor americans? guest: the supplemental nutrition program for women and children, giving health care advising to low-income women and their infants and children. that program is a partnership between the states and federal and i think i have enough funds to run the program through the end of the week, but they don't know -- but we don't know when the shutdown is going to and and that what impact

these families. we have already seen headstart dozing in florida. the speed of the closures will pick up by the end of the week. decimatedm is already by the sequester. veterans benefits will run out in a couple of weeks. people who depend on veterans pensions and other benefits from the veterans administration will get cut out as well. host: house republicans yesterday put bills on the floor that required a two thirds majority, saying let's open up some of these agencies that are impacting veterans, the national parks, etc., lets open them up piecemeal. democrats rejected that out right. what are they going to do today? guest: today the house will meet at 10:00 to consider different rules that would bring these piecemeal bills back to the house floor, but they could be passed with a simple majority vote. the senate is unlikely to approve those. the democrats have made it clear that they don't want a piece is notproach, that it

fair to prioritize veterans over cancer patients, for example, were are -- who are waiting on the naih for testing and things like that. i don't think we should expect piecemeal funding measures to go through. host: we are talking to zoe carpenter of "the nation," washington reporter here. we will take your phone calls in a moment. we also have a fourth line for federal employees. we want to hear from you. host: there is a story in the papers today, as you just indicated, that democrats are united on this front, opposing the republicans' efforts. what are you hearing from democrats on capitol hill about this fight so far? guest: democrats have no incentive to compromise here. and it is not really a compromise. democrats have no incentive to

give republicans what they are asking for because what they are asking for is a series of radical measures in exchange for the normal functioning of the government. there is no ground to compromise there. we have to to fund the government just as we have to raise the debt limit. the polling indicates the majority of them economic will blame republicans for this. there isn't political pressure to cave either. i don't think we should expect this. host: democrats, though -- there have been blue dog democrats, etc., will are worried about the health care line of a voted with the republicans delaying or defining the affordable care legislation, and some of them are worried about the unpopularity of different book iraq. guest -- unpopularity of the affordable care act. guest: well, i think that is true, but now that we have opened up these exchanges and such overwhelming volume of interest yesterday, i think the public opinion about the affordable care act will shift,

and i should say that those polling numbers indicate that people are unfavorable towards obamacare, it depends on how you ask the question, whether you call it obamacare or the affordable care act. once the law starts to roll out and people understand the benefits, we are going to see the political winds shift significantly. host: "usa today" has a piece by susan davis, quoting an analyst for the nonpartisan "cook political report." " lawmakers show no signs of losing cohesion on the first day. 'democrats have always believed a shutdown would make republicans pay attention. so far there is no evidence that the game has changed. the 2014 landscape still tilts in favor of house republicans.'" guest: i think that is because of gerrymandering and redistricting across the country. districts that drawn so members of congress don't have challengers from the left could

dare challenge from the right and then creates a very insular political conversation and that is one of the real barriers to holding lawmakers accountable right now. host: syracuse, new york, independent caller. hi, dave, welcome to the conversation. caller: yes, thank you very much for taking my call. i listen to c-span quite a bit and you guys are very, very interesting. my comment is that in the state of new york, we recently passed legislation probably 45 years ago where the senators and -- for to five years ago where the sender's and representatives don't get paid after april 1 if there is not budget in place. , the budgets have been coming in on time, you know ? i am looking at the situation saying, cut their pay, take medical benefits away from them, make them work for this stuff.

they should be paid for doing what they need to do. instead of goofing around and taking the country down with them. my whole situation is that i am thinking, if the pay were taken away and there was some kind of penalty involved, you would see them do their jobs. you would do them in a reasonable amount of time. that is what new york did and it works for us. host: zoe carpenter, any effort by members of congress to cut their own catering this fight? guest: unfortunately, they can't do that. there was a law that was intended to prevent congress from giving themselves pay increases, but it also has the effect of prohibiting the pay cut or taking salaries away. i think you are unlikely to see the chambers come together and vote on that sort of thing to change that now. int: we will go to rose tennessee, democratic caller, also federal amply. hi, rose. caller: hello. yes, i would like to say that i

gave up a very good job to spend . year as an americorps vista $800 a month is all i can expect to have. now we won't get that. for myself, i have a little sick, but so many kids have decided to do this that have other -- no other means of support. we are at the poverty level. i think it is so unfair of our government, democrats, republicans, independents, whoever this is, to let this happen. so irresponsible. there are people suffering. host: ok, rose. zoe carpenter, any thoughts? guest: that is certainly true, and as the caller pointed out, people who are suffering our normal everyday americans. that is pretty unconscionable. from a couple tweets

viewers who have questions about how the government shutdown is working. host: art in clearwater, kansas, republican caller. caller: hello, good morning. i have kind of an analogous question, and that is, how well do you believe the representatives on both sides of the aisle are actually listening en backr constituents wh when the obama health care law was passed, there was no debate orfor general prior examination of the content of the law before it was passed? host: zoe carpenter? guest: well, i think they listened to the constituents who called in and it depends on

having those constituents being active and voice their opposition. i think we knew what was in the affordable care act report was passed fit that is my recollection at the time, but the caller's is different. host: david, federal worker. what do you do, david? caller: i work for the u.s. department of agriculture. i point would be that congress , nine daysve weeks until the end of the fiscal year. everyone knows september 30 comes every year. pretty unconscionable that they all took it off. end, republicans brought up that they would hold things up and in the democrat -- and the house, democrats, they refuse to talk or negotiate, taking a childish stance that we are taking it and leaving. pretty harsh, juvenile tactics on both sides. i guess my question would be, if people are fed up with this, and

as was mentioned before, there is a constitutional fact that we cannot withhold their pay and things like that -- the states maybe need to draft a constitutional amendment to require that congress have a budget passed before the end of the fiscal year, or congress and their staff will go without pay until they do that job. the president as well put all three have to be involved or there is no incentive. the caller from new york is right, it will take a constitutional amendment. great i think it would be if we had activism at the grassroots level to pursue that amendment or to pursue a rule of that sort. i don't know that it would help us on this particular issue. i would also like to know about when we talk about their markets and republicans refusing to negotiate with each other, -- democrats and republicans refusing to negotiate with each other, there is one site asking for more concessions.

" never have democrats saying pass gun-control or we will shut down the government." republicans are asking for obama to reject a pet policy proposal. they are asking to not fund the government. that is very different. if audible care act has been passed, it is a law -- the affordable care act has been passed, it is a law. i think we need to keep in mind what is actually on the table. host: peter king was on msnbc earlier today. we heard during the newsradio break that he was critical of one faction of her publican party, those who have been supported by the tea party movement. but he was also very critical of the president, saying that he is just standing by and not standing up and fighting, not joining the conversation, not leading. guest: i don't know what more he could do. he has been giving speeches, he canceled his trip to asia. we should expect to see what dialogue in the coming days. -- more valid in the coming days. host: christine, kansas,

democratic caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. "democrat" but in this day and age i don't know who i am. i'm a human being who is afraid to vote this day. being an army wife myself, that is why i am in fort riley, because god knows i would not have picked this place. number one, since the department of defense seems to be the biggest department with the biggest cuts, i am personally a dozenng almost soldiers that are being kicked out of the army. it takes a minimum of one month for that to happen. i don't understand, it is a lot of paper pushing that should be done in a weeks time, especially if they are being dishonorably discharged or just a general discharge could second, i've soldiers beingen

medically discharged, meaning they will get a paycheck from the government for the rest of their lives, but it takes a minimum of one year, and one soldier was recently, nine or 10 months ago, finally finished with his medical discharge, and it took approximately three years. never had to report to work got a paycheck -- host: how does this relate to the government shutdown conversation? caller: we are talking about making budgets and having things done, and the department of defense, honestly, if they would listen to the lower end, the soldiers, not to the higher-ups that aren't seeing everything day by day coming in, here are ways of making cuts. instead of constantly giving him a full paycheck and for housing allowance, full everything. the last thing i want to say to throw it out there is that from my understanding, it just this morning reading websites and

reading newspaper articles throughout the past couple of years about education laws and we we are giving exceeded -- have exceeded in default and it is over a trillion, and soldiers are guaranteed a g.i. bill and they get out, or they are supposed to be, and they have the opportunity to get some of that money to their dependents, whether it be their spouse or their children, provided that they reenlist for a certain amount of years after -- host: i am going to live t -- leave it there because we have got to get other voices in. bob in missouri, independent caller, federal enclave. caller: hey, how is it going? i've only got a couple points to make, although this is a conversation we could carry on for weeks and days. first thing i want to talk about his -- i'm speaking to a member of the media. ever hold the democrats

is possible for any of the problems in the government. bob, i will take that point because you were breaking up and it was difficult to hear you. not holding nation" democrats response will in this scenario? guest: well, i think "the nation " has a long track record of holding democrats responsible and we have to take things case- by-case. i think that if you read "the nation" you can find a wide range of opinions. sure, i would like to hold the democrats responsible -- accountable for not holding buth for a stronger budget it is not mean supporting the republican party, necessarily. host: as many people know, "the nation" is a progressive magazine, and on friday on "washington journal," we will feature reporters from "national review" here in washington. by the way, zoe carpenter from "the nation" earlier mention one aspect of heard story about the

government shutdown impacting poor americans could you mentioned headstart. outside the capitol grounds right now there is a protest going down with activists to mope "stand up for headstart." just remind our viewers what happens to headstart under the government shutdown. guest: we lose funding for student programs. early education for low income children, largely. those children will suddenly not have prekindergarten to go to and the families will have to figure out childcare measures. host: on twitter delaware. in a hi, alex. caller: hi, how are you? i will go through this quickly

because other people are trying to get on the line. i am a state worker. i feel so heavy in my heart for the federal workers. , they this come into play are out there and serving the public and everything and i have several friends who work in federal employment. my concern, and other people who work with me -- we work in the school system. i guess we are just wondering how this is going to come into play for us. is this going to happen to us also? it is a terrible situation. host: ok, alex. zoe carpenter? guest: we would have to wait to see the state-by-state effects. we cannot necessarily expect the same kind of budget standoff at the state level, but we will see ripple effects economically from a government shutdown to state

economies. host: on twitter guest: so the budgets are not necessarily spent by the employees, they are spent by the leadership it if you look at who is deemed essential and nonessential, generally it is the higher paid workers who are essential. workers are not the ones who are making the decision how to spend that money. it is the leadership of the .gencies they are doing good work, creating services for millions of americans that we rely on everyday. we don't necessarily see that but we will start to see it when it is been curtailed. host: on twitter guest: i have certainly read a

lot of it. obviously, it is a huge piece of legislation. it is very compensated -- very complicated, and there are lots of ways you could be confused about it, especially with the disinformation campaigns that have been promoted. host: yesterday was the first day of open enrollment for the insurance exchanges. what did you see? guest: i was in northwest dcf the health clinic -- northwest dcf health clinic. navigators, workers who have been specially trained to tell people about these exchanges and often through -- walk them ,hrough what the new law means they set up tables and there was quite a rush in the morning, but they had lots of interested people who wanted to know what was going to happen to them if they already had insurance. if they didn't have insurance, how they could sign up, whether they were eligible for medicaid, those sorts of questions. i also spoke to some people who didn't have insurance and would

now likely be covered under the affordable care act about what the law meant to them. it means a lot. host: what did they say about their options? were they informed, did they know how to go online and shop for different insurance? guest: they felt they had enough information to start. it works. think delays and slowdowns of -- therete. -- they were delays and slowdowns of the woodside, but we should not expect it to happen overnight. we have months to go indian woman -- we have months to go in the enrollment period and people who are having troubles with the website will still be checking in. and people want insurance they are willing to visit the website twice. "the washington post" reports that 2.8 million people tried to get on the health care.gov website yesterday to

check out the exchanges. host: can you explain -- the vitter amendment was something people are talking about in this debate on capitol hill, beteweween the affordable care act and the continuing resolution. guest: like most federal employees, they have conservations to their health plans. -- contributions to their health plans. there is debate about whether that will continue under obama care. a lot of these staffers don't make a lot of money. the perceptions of washington, these are just staff members and having this contribution is important and it has been happening for a long time, not a special giveaway. host: angela, republican and federal employee. caller: good morning, ladies. guest: hi. caller: i wanted to talk about

the government shutdown and what we are doing through this whole thing. i'm reading the opm guidance for furloughs. i wonder if you have any cause or questions about what we can do to get benefits at this time. i was thinking about maybe unemployment. there is not a lot in our handout about that. it seems that we don't have a lot of options here. host: zoe carpenter, do you know if they are allowed to five-run appointment benefits? -- filed for unemployment benefits? guest: i'm not really sure. i hear that other people are trying to do that. that is a good question. what our city -- what are people supposed to do if they don't have a paycheck coming in? we have had social services decimated the past couple years, and now the people need them, where are they? host: republican caller and also a federal ugly. good morning, jack. caller: good morning, ladies.

federal employees are allowed to get an appointment benefits. there are also allowed to get a part-time job. it takes a little while to get the unemployment benefits good part-time job, you have to find someone willing and understand that you might leave at a moments notice. if youack, do you know, collect unemployment benefits do you have to pay them back and congress retroactively paste like these federal employees -- pays back these federal and please? caller: i was reading on the opm site last night and i cannot find that. i have 2 points i wanted to make. involvement. media it is refreshing to see now in a lot of the news media where they are not just saying "the federal government." therefore, whenever something

went wrong, they said "the federal government" and people groups federal employees right in with congress. it is good to see now that it is the legislature and the federal appellees are just doing their job. what i would like to say with media involvement is i would like to see more push for the pay of the congressman. there is a constitutional process in which congress could very easily curb their pay. it is covered under amendment 27, where they get paid through all of this and you cannot change their pay at a certain time of year. article five of the constitution allows that if certain members of congress convened, they can vote to do an amendment to that and they can say, ok, we are limiting our pay. host: wouldn't the states have to ratify that? yeah, there is a state

ratification, but i think at least it would send a message that they are serious about what they are doing. the other thing -- i would also like to see the media call for the resignation of some of these people -- boehner, cantor, pelosi, steny hoyer, and paul ryan. they are not doing the job. i would guess that tip o'neill and ronald reagan are rolling over in their graves. that is why we have a two-party system, so there is some negotiation. these guys have no negotiation skills. the leaders -- they failed miserably. host: jack, you are calling on the republican line. any blame on the democratic side from your perspective? caller: it's on both sides. when grown adults can sit down on a table and come to an agreement -- can't sit down on the table and come to an agreement -- that is what they are being paid for.

the two-party system is supposed to provide that you don't have one ruling class. however, this has been done all throughout history. these guys are just refusing to do it and it is affecting people. jack, we've got a point. zoe carpenter? guest: we don't have a two-party system because of any constitutional mandate. that is just the way it worked out. we have a system in which there are elections and you put your policy ideas up for a vote, and whoever wins has a mandate. of course there should be some negotiation, but the affordable care act was passed in 2010 and upheld by the supreme court. the democrats still one the white house and maintained the senate in the last election. this shouldn't be an issue anymore. this is not a policy that is on the table. there is not really room for negotiation there. in terms of holding people accountable and calling out leadership, that needs to come not just from the media but from constituents. that is what democracy is for

also. unfortunately, we don't see that works quite as well anymore with the influence of money in politics and gerrymandering. host: "band of republicans standing their ground." " conservative house republicans, many of whom were elected by wide margins, have led the push to dismantle the health-care law to the passage of a government resolution that would end the shutdown -- passage of a budget resolution that would and the government shutdown." some of the names and faces of the has republican party. put onves, who was also a conference committee set up by house speaker john boehner, he sent that proposal to the senate. that was quickly dismissed as well but you saw pictures raves and of tom g other conferees on how side meeting together. guest: boehner has refused to send his own representatives to congress -- conference many times in the past, too. host: john in california.

hi, john. caller: good morning. there has been a couple callers within the last 10 minutes talking about article five. anduld hope that c-span publications like "the nation" can help americans understand what article five is all about. there is a national group called friends of the article five convention, and they have done analysis of the congressional record. it shows that 49 states have cast hundreds of applications to .ongress for convention one session of congress after the next just ignores them. i think it would be really great onc-span did a show or panel the article five convention. there is a number of groups, national groups, out there and

i'm sure their representatives would be happy to come to speak about that. i would hope that "the nation" would do something about it, write something up about it. say,in conclusion, people well, let's pass an amendment that says something to the effect that we will cut their pay if they don't get a budget on time. but that is just a symptom of the problem. the problem is there's is too much private money in public government, which gets these politicians' heads spinning about what to do. if we remove-money from public government -- if we remove private money from public government, politicians would know who to pay attention to. host: ujohn, if you do a quick search on google, article five, on wikipedia, what pops up

next,let's go to whitney kansas, democratic caller, federal employee. caller: hi, ladies. on behalf of the federal workforce, i know that for a fact we have to get back to work, number one, period. host: why do you say that? caller: there are too many of us just locally where i am at that depend on our paychecks. there are too many people caring for their families, too many people caring for children, elderly, that need a paycheck just to survive. we have been stuck on a pay freeze for three years now, not to mention sequestration. the furlough days we have had to take. it is too hard for us. we have to be working. we want to work. we do a good job when we work. host: what do you do for the

government? caller: i worked for the internal revenue service. host: is there headquarters or part of the irs there in kansas? working kansasi city, missouri. host: are there federal agencies around there? caller: there are several agencies around here. for leavenworth, not too far away. v.a., and there is approximately in this area alone 32,000 federal employees. host: zoe carpenter, any thoughts? guest: you are again seeing people who have no response ability for this crisis being punished, and that is something that is unfortunately familiar at this point. many are saying that

if the government shutdown continues through the weekend, the debt ceiling negotiations will be tied into the debate over funding the federal government. then what happens? guest: the issue becomes trickier. the debt ceiling will be more catastrophic if we can't raise it. i think it is important to just emphasize that raising the debt ceiling is necessary to pay for money that has already been approved by congress. if republicans in congress want to have a conversation about cutting spending, which has been severely cut back in recent years already, much below the original ryan budget proposal, that is a conversation have over a long-term budget deal. not while risking the credit of the united states. host: the president will be meeting with wall street ceo's today as the budget crisis continues. according to bloomberg, this is

the headline for their story online. the chief executives of large bags including goldman sachs and j.p. morgan chase will be meeting with president obama tomorrow is commerce and to end the budget stalemate in washington. the financial services forum, a trade group representing ceos of the nation's largest banking and insurance firms are also set to meet with treasury secretary jacob lew." austin, indiana, independent caller. caller: i would like to know if the staffer for congress is working and being paid. thank you very much. host: yes, they are. we have cover that could you want to talk about a delivered more, zoe carpenter? guest: that is pretty much it. there are many other essential employees who are not working. host: mary, democratic caller.

hi, mary. caller: i am 64 years old and i don't remember line item changes to what is being passed fit what is the legal justification for president obama giving businesses and special interest groups these exemptions? i find it offensive. last night nancy pelosi was saying, well, this is the law. if it is the law, why doesn't it apply to you? host: zoe carpenter, president obama delaying certain provisions of the affordable care act. guest: the reason that is being done is to make the law worked better. a lot -- it is going to affect people across the country and it should function smoothly. fix anyt is to unforeseen issues to make sure that it benefits people equitably.

that process of trying to make the long run smoothly has been severely hampered by sabotage attempts at that is part of why we are seeing these delays as well. host: rick in maryland, federal employee. what do you do for the federal government? hey, rick you have to turn the television down. we'll put you on hold to charles in texas, democratic caller, retired federal employee. caller: hello? host: hi, charles, you are on the air. caller: i actually lean more republican than democrat but i am an x federal employee progress far as obamacare goes -- ex-federal employee. as far as obamacare goes, the spin goes in both ways and it is hard to get a grasp on it. i watch c-span all the time. i'm pretty concerned about the direction it has been going. my question is, it seems like

certain districts are going to actually get some good benefits from obamacare, but other districts, the more rural districts, are going to have a harder time with it because there is only one health care provider. host: so a carpenter, running out of time. the house is about to come into session. guest: we are going to see mixed effects because states have different ways of implanting the law. the choice not to expand medicaid by republican- controlled state legislatures is going to cut off services for a lot of people or prevent them from getting services. host: zoe carpenter writes for "washington journa --writes for "the nation." thank you for talking to our viewers. guest: it's been a pleasure. thank you. host: the house will take up debate over the continuing resolution. for now, live coverage of the house. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker.