national >> and it's day four of the partial shutdown of the federal government. has canceled his trip to asia this weekend and on the washington journal, c-span will continue to cover the related events here in washington. we want you to continue to be part of the conversation. here's how you can participate. democrats (202) 737-0001,

,epublicans www.c-span.org (202) 737-0002 -- republicans , independents (202) 628-0205. "the hill" newspaper this morning reports that shutdown are no shutdown lawmakers will get paid. the constitution requires all members of congress be paid. it is merely a question of timing. shutdown pay for house members can be withheld temporarily.

and in political this morning, president obama canceled his asian trip to fight the government shutdown. he was scheduled to leave washington this weekend to go to ali and brunei. kerryary of state john will take the president's place. back to "the hill" newspaper.

this is an article, a long article that was in political this morning. bad blood for feuding leaders. senate majority leader harry fellowivately told democratic senators this week what he really thought of speaker john boehner.

a little bit from the politico article this morning. as we announced prior to coming up on the "washington journal,." joining us for a few minutes is robert costa, the washington editor of the "national review." what is going to happen today? the fiscal impact is

happen for a couple of weeks. speaker john boehner can't find a way to cut a deal with his own conference that will get a clean cr to fund the government and also extend the debt limit. host: are he and harry reid talking at all? not only are they not really speaking, but the same time their staffs have a lot of acrimony between them as well. that is really the problem on capitol hill. the relationships between the leaders are poisonous and the relationships between the staff. the gauche nations aren't happening at all. there are no behind-the-scenes talks. the urbane or is working within his own conference and so was senate majority leader harry reid. where are the big talks? they're just not happening. the house and senate are in session today. was he house going to be doing and was on the senate's bill?

guest: the most important is a closed-door meeting in the basement of the capitol. saye leaders are going to what is the path ahead? will republicans resist that trade are the conservatives not going to let that happen within the house? if they are going to continue the shutdown they have to come up with a strategy, how you can combine the debt limit deal with the cr deal i can pass the house. that is going to be a difficult proposition. the senate, meanwhile, is just waiting to see what the house does. senate leader harry reid will reject anything that is not a clean cr. the papers have a similar headline to the "new york times" headline. october 17 seems to be the drop deadline for the debt ceiling.

boehner speaking on ? guest: the caucus ar guest:behind the scenes, speaker john boehner, from what my context tell me, has always wanted to avoid default. he had meetings with members at the capital and talked about trying to get some fiscal package together to avert default. to use,is trying simultaneously, the debt limit as a leverage point trade he wants to get some sort of healthcare concession or tax reform concession from the debt limit heard but it is wanted is byt rate the problem signaling this privately in a godly to the new york times, a lot of conservative members think that boehner is in some ways caving ahead of the deadline or signaling his intention so that the country knows it will not default. something that boehner has

to do with constantly and is not easy. editorobert costa is the is thewashington -- washington editor of the "national review" magazine. there is this picture, panic on capitol hill, of a woman who drove the car who was shot dead by capitol hill police. nbc ons an article in their website. capitol police could face delayed paychecks because of shutdown. after frightening incident where shots were fired. observers were quick to point out that the people protecting congress from threats are also facing the impact of the ongoing government shutdown.

that is on nbc news.com. virginia is a republican. what are your thoughts on what is going on? caller: i have been listing to c-span and thank you for the great talents conversation that goes on. i've been listening over the last three days. the thing that i become frustrated with and i wanted to constant --he almost every day i hear at least to college during this. that talk about that this is about racism and disrespect for , that republicans are out to deny him any victory because they are racist. i wanted to disagree with that completely and say look, this is a real and substantial debate about the size of government and the role of government in our lives. i would hope that the other side

would actually accept that and understand that there is a real concern about the affordable care act, obamacare, and its drag upon the american economy, the number of jobs being cut, the number of people being taken down to part time status, the number of companies abandoning neither insurance plans. the fact that the economy essentially should be a lot farther along in its recovery than what it is and that it is being held back by the terms and conditions of the affordable care act. no animus towards a president with regards to his race. in fact to have a lot of respect for the president on a personal level. i love the fact that is seated -- the fact that he is a family man and he spends his time with michelle and the children and is not in the social circuit. ofm concerned about his lack involvement in the day-to-day

ross says. host: dean is in muncie, indiana. yes, good morning. something about this obama care or affordable care act. we have laws against dead beat dads and moms. what about did the male and female young people that could afford to help pay for their healthcare? they say they are healthy and they don't need it. listen, i worked in an emergency room. i know about how many young people come in gang fighting with guns, come in with overdose and i think that the democrats and republicans both should think about that. thank you. host: next caller.

stanley in westborough, massachusetts. caller: ok. i just had to move into a studio from a one-bedroom to help cut costs. i am an engineer. i actually had to work 15 years and it drifted into a cash because theyy didn't do the right thing with the taxes that i would hate if i did any. knowhile, i would like to who the 2000 people who turned in their citizenship where out of curiosity. that is last year. , i don't carer about the obama care. i only worry about the young people in my family tree. so stanley, what would you like to see happen with regard to the shutdown. caller: i don't know how to

correct what they are not doing. i just don't know. host: all right. we appreciate your weighing in this morning. .ill site search for a deal house republicans led by speaker john boehner are coalescing around a strategy to reach one big agreement to end the shutdown eliminate the threat of default.

tony, winchester, massachusetts republican line. what are your thoughts on the shutdown? over the vehement objections of democrats in both the house and the senate. overouse passed it democrat objections and the senate refuse to pass it. the republicans in the house are doing the right thing to stop the default, but it is not getting reported. establishment media ignores anything that is inconvenient to the democrats.

the threat ofe of default directly on the democrats. their arrogant insistence on getting their own way and refusing to compromise and obama's refusal to negotiate is unprecedented rate they have no respect. they are totally irresponsible and i'm not hearing that from anywhere in the establishment media. c-span for allowing us to opportunity to hearing the unvarnished and uncorrected news. i don't see it in the "boston globe." unseated in the "new york times" or network television. thank you for taking my call. as far as obama negotiating with the republicans echo they stated theirhen they went to

retreat that they would not negotiate with the president anymore. understand what good this is doing with the government shutdown. it is not going to stop obamacare, so why not go ahead thenass a clean cr bill? negotiate the budget and all. this is a normal way that it is done. backenate passed a budget six months ago and they never would -- the republicans refuse to bring it to congress. one hour before shutdown they decided they want to bring it to conference. what would they be able to do in there. and thank you. "the the lead story from -- christopher

is in plumber ville, arkansas on the independent line. caller: i would just like to say the other caller who called in and said he didn't think this was about race. i've never seen a president so disrespected in all my life. i prayed for every president that has been up there. people just get together and realize that we are all going to have to pay for this, it looks like it is too , but this is not how

you do it. we just need to get together and realize that we are a country. it is rich and poor images everybody and we need to just do the right thing. host: that is christopher in arkansas. in theident spoke washington dc suburbs yesterday. here's a little bit of what he had to say. message forple today is, call a vote. call a vote. put it on the floor and let every individual member of congress make up their own mind. and they can show the american people are you for a shutdown or at geico if you're not for shutdown you will vote for the bill. if you are for a shutdown you won't vote for a bill. we don't have to twist anybody's arms. but that way the american people will be clear about who is responsible for the shutdown. or, alternatively, more hopefully, they would be clear that this is something that does make sense and we should go

ahead and make sure that we're looking out for the american people. it should be that simple. front page of the "new york times." some of our tweets that we are receiving this morning.

ron says, as predicted, people are catching on to the democrats responsibility for the shutdown very efficient sam says we need a full audit of the government. here is fred. the house is the absolute power to pick what they will find. and on our facebook page, which is full of comments from the last couple of days, over 10,000 right now, here are some recent ones. gus says

rick is in south pompano, florida on our republican line. caller: thanks for taking my call. i believe the republicans are to stand together and vote together is prettye country much bankrupt. social security, our educational system, we are number 22 in the world and put the most money into education of any other country in the world. care, peopleth knowthis is bad, they we're on our way to a detroit on a national level. people knowledge in their gut. i know it is apples and oranges, -- no matter how much you try to convince people, they know it is not right.

what is going on with their finances and with our government. host: thank you very much. host: democrats chose the shutdown, he writes. even when it comes to something as basic and apparently is simple and straightforward as the question of who should down the federal government, there are diametrically opposed answers, depending on when the top two democrats or two republicans.

the whole point of having a division of powers within the federal government is that each branch can decide independently what it wants to do or not do regardless of what the other branches do. the powerssing specifically granted to that branch by the constitution. the hundreds of thousands of government workers who have been loughed -- and that is

a little bit from tom souls national review online. we will be spending the morning at "the national review." all of our guest will be coming from there. lucerne, california. a democrat, hayek, paul. paul. caller: i'm an independent, but i kind of lean towards democrats. i have been watching government since 1979 really closely. i have never seen it this bad before. we have to do something. we have to get money out of politics and get back to the business of running our country. all these people that say government is out of control, well, they don't really understand the whole big picture. government is there to protect the average person. what is out of control as corporations and big business.

they are running everything right now. that is what is out of control. time toave to take the get educated because unfortunately you don't always get the best news from corporate news. to say it is leaning to the left is really a joke because it is really leaning towards the right trade look at the pundits. look at who is on fox on tv all the time. no, it is not fair. for: paul, thank you calling in. you mentioned money in politics. post"s the "washington article.

is just a bit about the supreme court to, the case they're going to be hearing on money and some of the other cases they will be theing heard this is from "washington times" this morning. residential powers, national labor relations board versus no caps on.

the court session began on tuesday, october 1. our last call is charles in camden, new york. republican. charles, are you with us? caller: yes. thank you for c-span and taking my call. say that, you the blame game has got to stop and we have to get together and do their job and sit down and talk with one side and the other and we are getting nowhere. it is affecting a lot of people. i don't know if this is because

of big government and they just whatever,sture and do but if they really want to help the american people and they care about the american people and stand united, they need to get to work and get it done. there is no reason not to come together on both sides. thank you for taking my call. calling in.you for as we have indicated the rest of the show will be with "national review" guests. we will start with the publisher, jack fowler. weer that, robert costa who met a little earlier. he is the washington editor of the "national review." he will also be taking your calls. we'll be back with the publisher of the national review." >> she was the powerbroker behind her husband's administration. after he died, the news of

corruption began to emerge. she burned his letters and documents in an attempt to preserve his legacy. saturday at 7 p.m. eastern on c- span. our series continues. where calvin and grace met for the first time. she was a teacher living in a dormitory here and he was a tenant in a boarding house. here is where grace would have looked out and seen calvin across the courtyard at the next building. she would have at a candle in this window here to signify to -- that thee hollow parlor room below them was available for them to meet in. this is where calvin and grace when the recording would meet up. they would sit and talk and have some time together. the second being in his tour 30s and she in her 20s, they had to abide by the rules of the school

and needed to meet somewhere where they were supervised and chaperoned while they were on campus. >> meet first lady grace coolidge monday night live eastern. also on c-span radio and c- span.org. leaders, really good .eaders, are often impatient they are often somewhat intemperate, there sometimes the leaderbecause who always listens to everyone, always listens to all the viewpoints, wants to make sure that everybody is convinced before he or she finally makes a decision, you just lose valuable time. i think a good leader does have a sense of impatience, is impatient in overly long meetings where a lot of people make contributions to demonstrate their knowledge as opposed to actually advancing the cause of the meeting. a lot of leaders then violate

good management behavior and him as they say, stop talking about that please. we have heard that before. the only thing you can do to say it is just keep quiet please we need to get this over with. >> what defines a great leader? bob lutz on "icons and idiots" sunday night on c-span two. >> "washington journal" well the to read >> "national review" has been around since 1955 in the current publisher is jack fowler. he joins us from the reviews washington office. how did the review get started and why? well, first of all good morning peter and thanks for having me. thanks for being here at "national review." is a great institution and so is

c-span. we are happy to be here with you. mybehalf of of rich lowry, colleague and the editor of the "national review." i brought some props with me. i will do a little reading. the first issue of "national 1955w" from 1955, november , it was founded by william f buckley junior who most people know and have great admiration for. the me tell you why it exists. this is one of the more famous quotes from "national review" in the first issue. aboard history yelling stop at a time when no one is inclined to do so or to have much patience with those who urge it. this was the intent of "national review." the movement and tide of history was very liberal.

whittaker chambers was not our national review staff originally thought he was joining the losing side when he moved from communism to conservatism. liberal,my was very the establishment very liberal and "national review" was created by bill because he perceived and understood see if a real need to have a conservative voice, a distinct, respectable, intelligent and witty conservative voice to counterbalance the prevailing establishment. been how long have you with review, when did you start? at "national been review" for 30 years. in 1983. actually, as an adjutant of -- i beganally

working at the review and was ined as a full-time employee 1990. i was the congressional reporter and it wrote so well that they put me on the business side in 1992. i have worked here in washington, we had a washington bureau at the national press building at the time. my colleagues were bill met her as the some people know editorial page editor of the "new york post." susan mandel who was a respected freelance writer. we were the washington bureau at the time. i went to new york city in 1992 and i have been on the business side of the magazine since then. numbers ifus some you would, mr. fowler. what is the circulation, website visits, number of employees? magazine, except for certain times, is the largest

circulation opinion journal in america. we have approximately 152 150,000 towe have 160,000 paid subscribers. is up to 400,000 unique visitors. -- 4.5 million unique visitors per month. we have a very loyal readership. as a business, one of the most interesting things, we will call it a renewal rate, people subscribe to a magazine, it is introductory, but how long do you stay? due to renew? we have a phenomenally high renewal rate. us subscribers generally see not only as a great magazine,

but also as a cause. important institution. it was an important institution in 1955 when it was founded by bill buckley. the foundation of "national review" actually created the modern conservative movement, national lyrical conservative movement. thate will has said without "national review" there is no reagan and there is no reagan revolution. a respected voice of conservative opinion. we have a great washington bureau. with had any number of writers , jim garrity, jonah goldberg. within the last year and half will try to make a more focused effort to have a reporting

staff. bob costa leads it, andrew stiles. jonathan strong, betsy woodruff. also working here is kathryn jean lopez. we have a really solid that weon voice, not didn't, but we put some more attention into this. that is not only reflected in the magazine, but much more so in our website. mr. fowler, has the magazine changed since william f buckley's death in 2008? guest: no. complaints,of the and deservedly, i'm the publisher. i like it when people are happy until the good things and i welcome them when they have complaints, also. a number of people will say, you know, "national review" has changed since bill buckley died.

the fact of the matter is that no relinquished largely relinquished editorial control of the magazine in 1989. and he thens editor appointed john o'sullivan as editor. john served in that capacity for about seven years. rich lowery has been editor for 15 years. bill gave them a free hand to .dit it. he owned it he sometimes made his presence known, but the national review that bill buckley was editing is, issues1987 aside, the same magazine that was edited in 2008 and the same magazine today. continuum very strong . as a business, of course the institution has changed largely because of the website, but the

magazine is still, has been and remains the principal intelligent voice of conservative reason. fowler, what is your editorial role as publisher? [laughs] my editorial role is very limited. lowery is verych welcoming. he will ask my opinion from time to time, if i have an opinion i share it with my colleagues. but it is somewhat limited heard there is more than enough work to do on the business side of need to be then i sticking my fingers into editorial matters.

if i may make an excuse for myself, we joke about "national review" that is a for-profit that happens not to make any money. we haven't made any money in 58 years of publishing. this is the nature of our business, opinion journalism. unless you are owned by a sugar daddy, which we are not, or you are a nonprofit, we are not a 501(c)(3), paying the bills is a undertaking,ity -- i should say. it always has been. the reason i say that is the old business model which is out the window now because of the web, as a magazine, rule of thumb was you would get 70% of your revenue from advertising and 30% from subscriptions. opinion magazines are the reverse of that trade 7030 subscriber to advertiser. are largely tors

be associated with controversy loath to beertisers associated with controversy. we court controversy. we have our beliefs about liberal media, but when it comes (, opinioning magazines have a rough time. there is plenty to do as a publisher to try and keep the .oors open i don't have to delve all that much into editorial matters. host: in the current issue there other maria for mutual funds. there's an ad for affordable -- affordabled hearing aids and walk-in bathtubs. is it something to be said about those ads? guest: well, they indicated

certain demographic. is not only related review," but to opinion journalism in general. typical person who will be interested in opinion and commentary tends to be older. is, we need more young people reading us, whether "national review" or "the new republic," and that is very true. i think it is fair to say that once you get married and have a family and your in your mid-30s and approaching 40s is when one tends, generally now, one generally tends to become interested in tax policy and other domestic policies. demographics skew older. again, that is left, not right.

edit total from the " -- this is david welts writing in the "new york times." i love how liberals claim

bill buckley and try to use him as a cudgel. two things about hill. won, one of his most favorite is rushn the world limbaugh. they were very close and he loved rush and loved what rush did and the feeling was mutual. the second thing related to the t partiers, this is the same bill buckley who was famous for saying he would rather be first 5000 names in the boston telephone directory than the faculty of harvard. -- i'm a little loath to speak for bill buckley. i don't like it when the left .oes it i am reluctant to do it myself. every day.bill he was a guy to us. he was a great man and a great presence. i think is fair to say that he

had great faith in the quote common man" as opposed to taking guidance from the establishment. bill was, of course, well known for being on great personal terms with members of the establishment, left or right, great friends of his, everyone was friendly with bill and bill was friendly with everyone. i think that editorial is quite often mark. in thes a great believer common man and where his heart was. on the birch society? of course he did very the john birch society was espousing things that were just beyond the pale. dwight eisenhower was a communist. this is crazy talk. he rightly, along with some

others, including barry goldwater, made a concerted effort to rid the conservative ofement of that kind baggage. i'm not going to say bill buckley would be a tea party rally, but i wouldn't be surprised. i think the -- i think those on the left who use bill are doing him a disservice. but frankly, they are ignorant of his views very it host: host: mr. fowler. i would like to show you some video. in 1997 bill buckley and michael kinsley. >> mr. kinsley is involved in a new world of computers and

internet. how long do think you magazine like yours is going to last and will have to go the route of the slate? >> about a million years. >> there's no chance of it in transplanted in this world? >> i think inevitably what one comes up in any publication will be progressively available to readers using different devices for looking at it. then having it delivered in the door. mr. fowler, the importance of electronic communications today. that was in 1997. guest: it is hugely important. we exist out in order to put ink on paper, but we exist to stand up or history yelling stop. you do it by what medium is available. beyond "national review" in the early 60s and of

course in the 70s and 80s, he used television. his show "firing line" was hugely important to the conservative movement. that said, i hope and pray that the innt data continues to exist because it isne, a thing that people tend to pay for. it is a source of revenue. as anyone who operates a media website will tell you, whether it is a small entity you, relatively small entity, or something like the daily beast which a significant traffic numbers, getting people to pay for information is a difficult task. getting them to pay for it electronically, electronic information is difficult. if i can charge people $59 a year for a subscription to i am gettingiew" $59. it would be very difficult to

get someone to pay $59 on a pay wall at our website. ,he interesting thing is "national review" online publishes essentially a magazine today. the volume of content is massive. the interest in paying for that is disproportional to what one gets with the print product. face inthe dilemma we every media outlet. to, i can't stand the word monetize, but it will have to do's. it is tough to monetize. as a conservative, i think it makes a little sense. we believe in supply and demand. the supply of information is essentially infinite and therefore the cost is essentially nil. that information on the web, your computer screen

being the portal, is free. my task in the task of my colleagues is to try and make that pay for itself. historically, national review has always relied on its subscribers to keep us alive. i have another little interesting prop. -- "nationalal review" was a prototype. here it was called "national weekly" until someone found out there's already magazine in 1955 called "national weekly." "national weekly" until 1957 or 1958 and in the money ran out. publisher, bill rusher, said

our subscribers will never let us go under. he was correct. our subscribers see us as a cause. we are a cause. magazines need that extra help from somewhere in order to stay in existence. "national review" was founded, if the whole entity and enterprise, the mission was established today, it would be a very different undertaking. it would be difficult to launch an opinion magazine today and make a go of it, unless you are owned by a billionaire. who had toward money. edition of the "national review" comes out of her two weeks. national review online is updated hourly, sometimes.

very collective -- to say the "national review down on the issue is difficult., yet people from marc stein and jonah goldberg, victor davis hanson, andy mccarthy, on and on, my colleagues here this office, rich lowry, there is a real voice of debate or discussion. i recommend, james, that he go and find out for

himself. when he is there maybe you will click the subscribe button and get a copy of the magazine. kimberly is in spring, texas on our independent line. kimberly you are on the line with the publisher of "national review" jack fowler. can't claim to think of bill every day. certainly last week when things didn't turn out to well for our nation. i couldn't help but think of him. i wanted to get your opinion it.t this, the way i see we have turned the affordable obamacare.to and in a white is calling that way, but it seems to be the popular thing and he has said that it is mind a bit.

i think that perhaps this is all , ande an ego issue for him to his legacy. everyone talks about it being his legacy, the obamacare act. would you think? do i think he has an ego? yes. sking my opinion, we have been and we remain very opposed to it. we think it is a disastrous legislation. we do believe that health-care reform is needed, but we believe that this particular approach will be disastrous to the ,conomy, to job creation disastrous to one of the great

aspects of our industry is the creation of pharmaceuticals. things like that will be greatly "nationalso in the review" it opposes this. i want to say something if you don't mind about oil. to, one pacific and one atlantic forages. bill is a great sailor. he was very passionate about it, and he was a very brave man. he sailed in some very difficult its and one particular time was life risking. and i think sailing not the last year of his life but maybe two years before he got someone ill. he was very avid about it. he wrote a number of sailing books, also. many people know bill is a

publisher of national review, not as the host of firing line, but either as a sailor or as a writer of great mystery novels. host: mr. fowler, two editorials on the affordable care act. as christopher buckley the sun involved at all in "national review"? christopher was. there's a board of a people that owns national -- that owns "national review." shares andoting

those voting shares are owned by an entity of which there is a board. christopher sat on the board until about a year ago. i'm very close to christopher. we are good friends. about "nationalares deeply review" and he was very helpful in making the transition from to anther's ownership entity that will try to protect integrity.view's" as mr.seen things such macarthur, whose money bankrolled the macarthur moneytion, pew money, which by conservative men

became vehicles for funding the left. bill would have wanted "national review" to become a liberal magazine, but he was certainly concerned what would become of it after he died. he established this entity and christopher and myself and others were on the board. it was important to him that "national review" remained protected, conservative, and christopher did the best he could possible to make sure that we are on that path for the foreseeable future. line,john is on the republican line. caller: i remember watching william f buckley, he used to be on a lot of the news opinion shows. he used to be willing to criticize conservatives, and not

only when they were not conservative enough. you mentioned the birchers and whatnot. be very upset,d not agree with a lot of the things that "national review" does now. i know this segment is not specifically about the aca, but there was an article before you came on about defending what the house is doing, that the u.s. constitution gives the power of the purse to the house of representatives, and other reasons why this is the i do not all, but think buckley would ever defend the message that is currently being used. -- i do notreason know if most people are aware of this or not. it is not the house asking the president to negotiate. it is a minority of the house. , ithere was a clean cr

would pass in the house, and that is why john boehner does not want to bring it up. the president is being asked not only to give something away, so to speak, which has never been done in a budget bill or in the debt ceiling, but he is being asked to negotiate with a minority of the house of representatives because a majority of them would vote for the cr. host: we get the point. mr. fowler? another man who obviously channeling bill buckley. i knew bill for 30 years and i cannot speak with any specificity. d that someone od would think that bill would not be supportive of efforts to undo this bill. it is quite wrongheaded and i think bill would probably be --

not opposed to a government shutdown, of which we have had 18 in the last 25 years. host: i want to ask you about rob long's article in this past issue. conventionnational 2016, tentative schedule not released. what is the point of his column this week? rob is a really funny guy. he was the executive producer at "cheers." "sullivanproducer of

and son" and also is the founder ricochet." he is making some criticisms of the republican party. that is the beautiful thing. that is part of the beauty of "national review." -- we havemonolithic an editorial. we have many great contributors and writers. , givestor, rich lowry them room to have their say, whether it is in a pointed policy way, or in rob's way, which is humorous, witty. this is his 20th year of writing a column for "national review." he started with a column called letters from al.

it was al gore running to his friend rusty who was living in a rain forest in south america. he is one of the great jewels of "national review." a wonderful writer. mr. fowler is the publisher of "national review." coming up, we will be speaking to some editors of "national review." next, robert costa, head of the washington office. and then ramesh ponnuru, senior editor. if you find a book that you want to read, i can see if it is on the quiz. we are at a school south of

billings, montana, on the crow reservation. i believe there are about 40 kids in the school, one of the few schools left in the area. we bring books, videos, cds, out to residents of yellowstone county. this library has the one main as part oftown, and the outreach program, we want to get out to the outlying residents. people are spread out in montana. >> we have 30 seconds left. if you have not checked out yet, please come up. until we can get some branches out in the county, this is probably the next best thing. bookmobile has its own appeal because it is a fun way to bring books and videos to

people. we are very lucky to have this wonderful truck. le this from the bookmobi weekend as we look at the history of billings, montana. >> during this year's coverage festival,l book speeches about joseph kennedy. tell ifuld not churchill was teasing him or if he was so drunk that he forgot from the day before that kennedy did not drink. he disliked each other intensely, but the war was over. there have been intense suffering. churchill said to kennedy, held out his hand, and said, i am so sorry for your loss. joe junior had died during the

war, and churchill was sincere. he said to churchill, what good was it all? churchill looked at him, unbelieving. hadis mind, world war ii saved democracy, defeated hitler, saved western society, so he thought. blazed hatred at him. national is the only television network devoted to books. host: joining us from the " is roberteview costa, the head of the washington office. reputation cruz's

right now in republican circles? it depends on which republicans you are speaking to. on the right, tea party activists, he is emerging as a hero. the defunding effort and shipped congressional strategy on this current fiscal flight. at the same time, he has become a more isolated figure within congressional leadership, within his own conference in the senate, because he is a grassroots favorite but is not doing what to build allies, even in his first year in the senate. in "the financial times" there is an article on john boehner. what is john boehner's reputation in republican circles? is a question that has a lot of answers, but ever since the fiscal cliff in january,

when there was a coup attempt on him on the house floor, he has controlled -- struggle to control his own conference. he is a popular figure on a personal level in the gop, but when you look at the farm bill, immigration, violence against women act, he has failed to shake strategy. i do not think his leadership will necessarily be challenged, there is not an alternative leader on the right that will immediately challenge him should he moved to the center on the debt limit or on the continuing resolution. at the same time, finding a way out of this impact is something that challenges him every day. rightnservatives on his have a skepticism of him, and i credit this skepticism of what he did in 2011, when he had closed-door talks with president obama, trying to sketch out a grand bargain.

conservatives were wary about this process. ever since those talks a lot, he has not been able to win back the right. " onlineational review has an editorial this morning, a modest bargain, rather than a grand bargain. guest: i think this is what john boehner is looking at. he controls the gop. the senate and the white house are controlled by democrats. he is trying to temper expectations within the house gop. there will be a conference meeting in the capitol basement and he needs to lower expectations on the right. them, in divided government, what can we achieve? is it a grand bargain, delay of , defundingts obamacare? probably not. you could have some reforms and tie that to government spending.

that is the argument that he would like to make in the next couple of days two and the shut down and move on from this fiscal fighting. host: we are going to put the numbers up on the screen. costa,speaking to robert the head of the washington branch of "national review." , long-termstrategy strategy, on the republican side right now? in terms of the current fiscal cliff we are looking at with the debt limit approaching and the government continuing to be shut down, the long-term strategy, on the republican side, is to combine these two issues into one larger deal. the only way to get conservatives to come along with the speaker and extend the debt limit is to get some conservative policies inserted into an extension of the debt limit package. party, is there

a long-term strategy to come back and build in the post-mitt romney era? i think you saw earlier the republican national committees post-election report, some movement to change the primary process, to make it more focused, maybe get some more high-profile candidates. the real problem for the party right now is it does not really have a leader. there is a national chairman but speaker boehner and leader mcconnell are not assertive, large national figures shaping the party. when i look at speaker boehner and leader mcconnell, i do not see a newt gingrich type of leader shaping the party. rather you have a collective group of interest. the conservatives, congressional leadership, tea party. they are coming together as different blocks. recently in your column,

you talked about paul ryan's debt limit strategist. he is not someone we have heard from a lot in these negotiations. myth: there is almost a that he has been awol from the current talks. he has not been a large figure in the debate, but one thing to watch, why he is an important player, he is coming off the national ticket in 2012. instead of looking ahead to 2016, he decided to stay in the house. since he did, he has formed a strong bond with speaker boehner. i often call ryan the conservative whisperer. i mentioned the trust gap that boehner has. ryan can speak to those cap to call conservatives and try to find consensus. as the shutdown continues, look for him to help boehner to come to some kind of consensus and

get conservatives to come along. one article that we saw in the paper this morning, from "politico." the relationship between harry reid, mitch mcconnell, nancy pelosi, and john boehner, and how it is pretty much off the rails. guest: it is an almost surreal scene to think that not only the leaders, boehner and read barely speaking, but their staff have such an acrimonious relationship. we are having a bit of trouble over at the national review's office. we will get that fixed and then come back and ask mr. costa to respond to your questions. we have a call from beverly.

i would like to know, in all of this discussion, you do not hear about what the rich is giving up. doing,e tea party is they are hurting nothing but people from middle-class and down. what is the rich giving up? host: thank you. once mr. costa is back online, we will ask him that question. n from ohio. republican line. the 800,000 one of per load federal workers. host: what department do you work in? caller: an agency within the department of defense. my big concern, i have been watching c-span since we were furloughed. i have seen kindergartners act better.

simple solution, sit down and talk. that is what they are there for. they are there to represent us. it seems like they forgot about us. colorado is a good example. special elections and recall. it is plain and simple. the little incident that happened on capitol hill and the white house with the lady, the shame she was killed, but at the expect thewe cannot pot of water over a fire not to boil. i do not like being used as a pawn for their political agenda. host: thank you. gene in arkansas. caller: i have witnessed this president out on the campaign trail again instilling fear in

the public arena by telling people that if the government shuts down, you still get your social security check, but if we have an economic shutdown, no one gets their checks. i am wondering if mr. costa would be surprised if this resident usurped the congress by going to the 14th amendment and hijacking the appropriations process? host: thank you. laura in rhode island. morning.ood thank you. thank you for c-span. i have two questions for mr. costa. i am a little unclear on the republican strategy of passing individual pieces. i guess which everyone gets the most media attention you get to pass that in the house. how long will it take to

eventually reach the full continuing resolution by passing these individual pieces? be, itond question would is unclear to me that the republicans are aware that in order to negotiate, you have to give something. i am wondering what the republicans are willing to put on the table. it seems to me all they are the democrats will get in open government and raise the yada yadang if we get yada. it does not seem possible to me. hearing fromciate his perspective what republicans are willing to put on the table. negotiations if everything on the table is a complete know from other side. thank you, laura.

if you are listening on radio, here are the phone numbers. you can also comment on social media. is -- @cspanwj is our twitter handle. bill in chesapeake, virginia, your thoughts about the partial government shutdown? guest: i am another one of those furloughed employees working with the department of defense. two things. i am curious where the 10% approval rating came in from the told, as they must have the families of the tea party.

second, i am an independent. i have voted republican for the most art in the past, but i can assure you, that will never happen again. thank you for calling in. donald in sanford, florida. what are your thoughts? caller: my thoughts? i have social security and if we have an economic shutdown, i'm afraid we may lose our disability checks. my father worked as a doorman for 40 years in new york city and i get social security off of him as a dependent child. i use that to pay my bills. if we have an economic shutdown, all of our checks will be taken away. i take medicine, i see a

psychiatrist, and i am worried, if we go into an economic shutdown. the health-care law is doing good with me because i got a raise of $77 in my social security. i get my medicare part d medicines free six months out of the year. i pay copayments the next six months. i am worried about the economic shutdown. country may become homeless. thank you for calling in and watching. randy in new york. republican line. caller: we are just hoping that the republicans hold their line and just take a stand. there are a lot of republicans, americans who are behind enemy lines in democratic states that do not really have a say.

we have had so much taken away from us, in new york, for instance, and it never seems to stop. have stood fast, our forefathers stood fast to bring up what we have today. i just hope they stand their -- help us bring america back. robert costa, we have talked to a couple of viewers, all sorts of issues on the table. says hang on,ork gop. bill, who is an independent in virginia, says that he has often voted republican, but at this point, never again, because of what is going on right now. how is this playing with republicans nationwide, how is

this playing with independents nationwide? guest: when you look at republicans in the house, there is an appetite for brinksmanship, to bring concessions out of democrats, especially with the debt limit. but a lot of republicans are nervous about playing too many political games as the debt limit nears. they are trying to build a deal but at the same time not go over that deadline and default. host: when it comes to , are they trending any way? guest: when you look at the recent quinnipiac poll, you see independents hope that both sides can come together, and her to going over the death amid. independents and centrist republicans and moderate democrats are very

frustrated with washington. they wonder why both sides cannot come together and have a deal, cut something that appeals to both sides. that frustration will continue to grow as the shutdown continues. host: two democrats called in. in. and laura called let me try again. beverly called in from missouri. laura called in from rhode island. both were wondering what the rich and the gop are willing to give up in these negotiations. guest: that is a difficult question for republicans to answer because they think their concession is actually letting the debt limit be extended, letting the government be funded. you do not see republicans putting revenue or tax rate increases or even tax reform on the table in any serious way. there is no grand bargain emerging that includes taxes and

republican concessions on that front. republicans really believe they deserve some sort of conservative policy just for raising the debt limit and that is what is causing the stalemate. if you look at the president's position and senate democrats, they are wondering, how can republicans make these demand without giving anything in return? republicans think they have given too much. laura went on to ask about the republican strategy of passing small bills, funding bills. how long will that strategy continue, and could it lead to a full cr, at some point? guest: i do not see it so much as a strategy but as a tactic. right now, republicans are trying to look like they are engaged and appear that even though there is a stalemate,

negotiations are happening between political leaders, they want to make sure the public believe they are engaged in trying to fund the government, so they want these incremental bills to fund certain parts of the government, and at the same time, maybe building a deal with the president and senate democrats. know,r, republicans because of the way the narrative likely bey will blamed for brinksmanship and causing the shutdown or a debt limit default if it happens, and they are trying to prepare for the narrative by passing these bills to push back against the growing consensus in the press and elsewhere. gene called costa, in from arkansas, wondering whether the president would use the 14th amendment to usurp congress's powers? guest: i do not think so, i do

not think that is his way. he is actually pretty comfortable with his position right now. if the shutdown continues, it is not the worst thing for him politically because he could blame republicans and after stumbling the summer on certain fronts, he now has a real enemy in congress that he can point a finger at and take the higher ground. the interview. he almost sounded like a professor. he disdained congress and was frustrated with the process. that is a sympathetic posture to take. i do not think he is looking for some kind of out with the 14th amendment. host: glenn in ohio is a furloughed worker and does not like being used as a pawn. guest: you see a lot of frustration with federal workers. i have been at the capital. capital police did a great job during the horrible situation yesterday. they believe the shutdown will continue, but when i come --

talk to members of congress, the only ray of hope, both republicans and democrats say, once the shutdown ends, they expect all of this backpay pay to be given to federal workers. there are furloughs, but i do not think they will stop them from getting their paychecks, once this ends. host: robert costa is our guest from "national review." john from ashburn, virginia. independent line. " washington journal." moving on to steve in maryland. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am retired army. i am a furloughed worker as well. i have been watching this on tv. a couple of talking points.

i am enjoying the debate, but since the liberals have hijacked the democratic party, they are the party of no. these are classic philosophies. do we revitalize the middle- class with the working-class, do we create the middle class with a new subsidized welfare class? obamacare is middle-class entitlement. as far as moderate republicans saying to pick the battles we can win, i see the tea party as being noble. they are willing to die for what they believe. they believe this is right. this is the american process. i do empathize with the democrats. they think they are doing what is right. in the long run, we are all going to win. i disagree with obamacare. i had tricare. i called, when obamacare

was passed, they did not know if my kids would be covered. .t took 10 months to get that it is more expensive to cover me under tricare, so i went with my work plan. host: thank you. mr. costa. --guest: thealler caller brings up a lot of points. how to handle obamacare as it is implemented. how do you make an argument against it? some republicans fear after october 1 it will be an entitlement program. at the same time there is a debate about whether you make a stand now and keep trying to pass repeal bills and funding bills tied to fiscal bills, or do you wait for this law to be

implemented and hope to make a case against it in 2014 in the midterms? it is more of a slow argument compared to a fight now argument. i --guest: do not think there hn answer to where the party is going to go. host: working at "national ," do you have to have a point of view, or are you a straight reporter? guest: national review --"national review" is a great place to work because we have editors but we also have a reporting team. we really have a great team that is working together. we work together as reporters to cover the right. we have a conservative audience, we know that. we are a journal of conservative opinion. at the same time, we believe it is important to objectively cover the publican party and to

inform our audience of who are the players, powerbrokers, and why decisions are being made. frank is a democrat in orlando. good morning. thank you for taking my call. i appreciate c-span and your guest. not hear much about the doctors regulations in this. i think that will play a big part. newscast,y seen one and it was a representative standing next to a seven-foot pile of paperwork which were regulations for doctors and he said that was only half of it. if you are bit by a dog, that is not good enough. you have to explain what kind of , whether you are attacked you, it goes through chickens and turkeys, basketballs. it is unbelievable.

how do they expect doctors to even keep up with that? host: mr. costa? it is a great question. i think you see a divide among parties and even doctors. andy harris, republican congressman from maryland, nurses and other physicians who are now members of the public party talkingcan about frustration with obamacare and implementation of the health-care law. republicans are trying to bring more doctors into the discussion to talk about the bureaucracy, the rising cost. sometimes republicans struggled to get past the ideology of it as a government program and how it really affects consumers. that is why you see them bring in doctors into the fold to help them make their case. host: ramesh ponnuru is up next.

alan from wisconsin. i pretty much do not like the democrats, but i have to say, the major problem that i have noticed, every blue-collar person who follows politics at agree, while the republicans have been almost church-like in there but rating of the spending in washington, the problem with all of that, a few years ago, they were giving president obama a roundabout laws and acting like spoiled children at the prospect of having their taxes cut by $250,000 apiece for the richest people in america. reconcile the blatant

hypocrisy that these people are displaying, essentially speaking out of both sides of their mouth? it is just income principle -- incomprehensible. they saw in 2010, 2011, when the democrats controlled both chambers, the president pushed through a lot of policies. just a reluctance to work with him. they do not believe he is someone who is engaged with congress, wants to cut a deal with congress. they look at the grand bargain in which collapsed. is a sense among republicans, rightly or wrongly, that with president obama in the white house, their ability to do anything, and act reforms that appeal to conservatives is hard. so they have adopted an opposition posture, forcing him

led tole, and that has the stalemate that we see today. host: "washington journal" today, white house pause hard- line has risks attached. led to the stalemate that we see today. he does not come in like lyndon johnson with a lot of experience, helping congress to shepherd along different negotiations. if the shutdown continues for a few weeks, even a month, and the debt limit becomes part of the negotiations, when does the blame shift partially from house republicans to the white house?

that is partly the expectation of house republicans. for now they are shouldering the blame, but they believe eventually the polls and public perception, the president will get some blame. that is why it was important for the president this week to paint a broad picture of what is happening in he does not washine congressional leaders at the white house and giving the appearance that he is trying to get something done, even if nothing behind the scenes is happening. host: tv in virginia. republican line. steve in virginia. i am very frustrated as a federal employee. i support the republicans but how else will we cut our spending? i am sick of the democrats saying that they hijacked this process. the president right now is not being a leader. you need to stand up and come to congress and say, let's work together and solve this issue. he is not doing that. he is a poor excuse for a leader, and i cannot take it anymore. host: robert costa?

like i ameel listening to a member of the republican house. you hear the same sentiment, the sense that the president is being unreasonable, as well as harry reid, by demanding a clean government, a clean extension of the debt limit. inublicans won the house 2012 despite the president winning reelection, and they think they should be able to get something in return, and the on onets willingness -- this to give them what they want is unfair, and that is why i to give unwillingness them what they want is unfair, and that is why i think the shutdown will continue. another article in "the wall street journal." we have been seeing this type of

article for several days now. what about the so-called moderate republicans, peter king et al, do they have a lot of influence right now? when you look at the dynamics, you have some outspoken members like charlie dent, peter king, and you have about 100 rank-and-file republicans, the silent majority of the house gop. if a clean cr were brought to the floor, a lot of the rank- and-file republicans would support it, but because of the way the conservatives dominate the conversation within the gop, , they areay silent not influencing the conversation as they would like. but i think you are looking at a lot of republicans that want to get past this. you will see speaker boehner work with that centrist wing and

try to usher a deal along, even the conservatives are initially resistant. host: we have been speaking to the washington editor of "national review," robert costa. we continue our visit at "national review." up next is , a longtimeru editor. after that, jonathan strong. from "nationale review." >> this is the striking john f. kennedy library, a controversial building and decision. john f. kennedy had made a decision to locate his presidential library at harvard.

when he was alive, harvard did not dispute that, they wanted a documentary archive related to the kennedy presidency. a number of presidents have graduated from harvard, but they did not want them easy and at harvard square because that attracts tens of thousands of schoolchildren and did not want the congestion and traffic. when universities got involved in whether to accept a presidential library, the question was what to do with the museum. >> the presidential libraries. 730 p.m. eastern, part of american history tv, on c- span3. >> i have been asked periodically, when were you most afraid during your government service? my service in government spanned

the entirety of bush 43's administration, from january 20, 2009to january 20, 2011 -- including 9/11. when asked about the scariest moment, everyone is expecting me reality, thebut in scariest moment, more than one, came in september and october of 2008 when it genuinely appeared thewas probably true that global financial system was on the verge of collapse comparable to, or worse than what was experienced in the great depression. part one of our conversation with former chief of staff josh bolten.

host: a couple of blocks from the capital is "national review" 's washington office. joining us now is senior editor ramesh ponnuru. in the current issue of your magazine, you have an article, " a dialogue on defunding." you asked the question, why couldn't the majority of the republicans we've got the funding language from their bill? what is the answer to that question? of three weeks ago when a lot of the decisions were being made, the republican leadership in the house did not think they could get a majority that way. they did not trust enough democrats to vote with republicans who wanted to do that, even though most

republicans were already in that camp and only needed about 50 democrats. they did not trust them to do that for a couple of reasons. one, they thought a lot of the democrats did not just want the continuing resolution without the defunding language and obamacare, but also wanted more spending. steny hoyer, number two democrat, was saying he wanted more spending above what we would have had with the sequester. the less in the house republican leadership drew from the collapse of the summer was that they could not trust democrats, even if they committed to delivering votes, to actually come through, because they think the democrats favor too much the possibility of showing the republicans being unable to assemble a majority in the house and being keystone cop shish. there a chance a grand

bargain will come out of this? guest: i find it pretty hard to believe that there would be a grand bargain. the positions of the parties on all of these budgetary issues are just so far apart. it is hard to see democrats agreeing to the kind of actual reform to entitlements that they would need to entice any republicans to agree to significant further tax increases. of course, you could put that the other way. it is hard to see republicans agree to any significant tax increases unless they got more serious reforms in entitlements. i think you are unlikely to see this hashed out in these far- reaching changes, in the quick atmosphere of a crisis. host: ramesh ponnuru, you have been working at "national review " for several years.

how much longer will the shutdown last? guest: part of the trouble here is you are asking me to predict the behavior of a small but decisive group of republican congressmen who do not think more than a day or two to view in advance. it is hard to say what they are going to do in a few days. my guess would be that this goes on for a while. i think there are a number of house republicans who believe this is achieving something for conservatism. because neither side is really feeling any political pain, i think, as of yet. host: neither side feeling any political pain? guest: i do not think so. i do not think congressional republicans are finding other numbers are dipping in their districts, at least not yet. frankly, i do not think the

country is feeling the effects of the shutdown in any significant way yet. the last time we had government 1995, 1996, it lasted a total of 21 days. we are on day 4 now. host: has the president felt any political pain? guest: i certainly do not believe the white house feels they are having any trouble right now. there was a newspaper reporting that an aid said it did not really matter to them how long the shutdown was. host: james sends in a tweet that says, how many days before the democrats pull the plug on the exchanges? guest: i think you will be

winning a long time to see that happen, james. as committed as a lot of republicans are to getting rid of obamacare and all of its components, democrats are extremely committed to keeping it. there were democrats in the house of representatives who knew that going forward with this in the spring of 2010 would cost them some seats in the in fact,at it would endanger their prospects of keeping the house. it did cause them to have more significant losses, but they did it anyway. they have been fighting for this for decades. the idea that they would give up after an election where they cap the white house and increased their number of seats in the house and senate seems highly unlikely. i wish it would work because i am against the law. host: ramesh ponnuru is a senior editor at "national review,"

also a columnist at bloomberg. , from savanna.at you are next. caller: i was reading an article regardingonal review" the federalist papers and talking about the powers of the purse. reading that, it appears they really do have the upper hand. partyms the democratic has absolutely no idea about the constitution or what their rights are of the house of representatives and the senate. i think they need to read this article so they can be given a civics lesson. especially harry reid. there seems to be something missing here. mr. pnnuru?

guest: i read the article in question. under the origination clause, it does give power to the house of representatives to begin revenue bills. they are not supposed to begin in the senate. but it does not say spending bills have to start in the house , and it does not say that the senate cannot make amendments to spending bills, and it does not say that the president has no say in this either. by deciding what he will sign and what he will veto, the president has a huge it influence. -- huge influence here. it is not that the constitution defines definitively, but it sets ground rules for but then leads to the plate of politics, and that depends on who wins elections and what public opinion will bear. so i do not think this actually gets us very far toward

resolving who should win or who will win these sorts of disputes. patricia is a democrat in pennsylvania. you are on with ramesh ponnuru of "national review." caller: hello and good morning. my concern, in listening to people speak this morning, including your current guest, is they are talking about with the house and senate can do, what the party factions are. not i am wondering is, i do think the american people are being well served anymore. if we start going with a factional government, we will be no different than someone like iran. ,ou get somebody in government they capture a very small minority of people, and yet, they rule over everyone how they wish. my understanding of the constitution and the government was it was meant to rule for the

people and not for different factions. in speaking about who won the election, obama one, twice, and yet you have a very small group of people who are trying to trip him up and keep him from doing the business of the people. health care is the business of the people. i am a nurse. i worked in nursing for many years. i saw a lot of the problems in health care. we absolutely need health care policy in this country. i was in favor of a single-payer system because i always thought that would be the most effective. research, medicare has been extremely effective for people and people like it, hospitals and doctors and nurses and patients like it. it was working for everyone. i wish we could have put something in place. i think obama mistakenly cap spending to these factions, thinking that they would compromise as well and come to the table, which obviously they

will not do. they have no intention. they want their own very, very narrow -- how they are very narrowly defined for very few constituents in this country. host: we have a lot on the table there. onnuru? guest: thank you for that not at all partisan discussion. president obama won, but so did house republicans. the constitution gives them a role as well, not simply to accept that their view of what is right for the people has to fail and the president view of what is right for the people has to prevail. they are simply differences of opinion on what serving the people in the context of health care policy actually means.

i do not happen to believe the way republicans have gone about fighting for their view of this makes a lot of sense, but that is a different question from saying they should not be fighting for the good of the people at all. in, when didets you become "national review" tv? watcher, we regular like to visit different publications from time to time. today we are at "national review ." on october 31, we will be with mother jones. what is your sense of urgency that a national debt of $17 trillion is a problem, considering middle-class jobs have been gutted? guest: i think the national debt is a very serious problem, not

just the existing national debt that is the problem, but the projected long-term debt problem we have based on the growth of medicare and social security in particular. we have got to solve the problem. i do not inc. we are there yet -- i do not think we are there yet as a country. i am not quite sure what the question was about my sense of urgency. if the suggestion is i do not approve of the shutdown, because i do not see the national debt as a problem, that is mistaken. i do not see how this will cause us to address the national debt. you have to get your means and ends in alignment. host: becky is in madison, tennessee. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have been watching this for a long time.

i have been watching the way themselves inds different circumstances. i wonder, if the democrats are so clean and honest, why do they live and deceived and have such slanderous mouths? the problem with obamacare, it is part of the spending and the debt. that is why they are having a problem with it. i have also watched them handle themselves in a more respectful manner. that says a lot. there must be something about this health care, which we do need, health care. there must be something about it that we do not know. host: ramesh ponnuru? well, i think there is

dishonesty among any large number of people, maybe a little more so with politicians in both parties. see the claims made, counterclaims in the health care debate, and not all of them on either side are going to pass a strict test of factual accuracy. tweet, how are the tea- hadists different from the birchers exactly? guest: they do not believe dwight eisenhower is a communist. there is one difference. they are fighting a health-care partisanwas passed on terms over public opposition. there is another. i am having a harder time thinking of similarities than differences.

host: ramesh ponnuru, have republicans made strategic mistakes? sure.: oh, as i have been saying, given the election results there were no prospects of making significant changes in obamacare the next couple of years. you've got to win some elections to do that. i think the other strategic mistake is concentrating all of your fire on obamacare without really advocating a robust replacement for it. some republicans have. john mccain had a decent health care plan. not a perfect one. and individual republican congressmen have paired up to the republican congressional party as a whole really has not coalesced behind an alternative that would make insurance affordable for roughly as many people as obamacare would. there has been some progress on that front.

republicans need to pay more attention to that. because it just seems implausible to me that the country is going to get rid of obamacare, which i believe it should knew, without finding a way to make it so that most people -- or that almost all people can have at least catastrophic health insurance. >> what about the democrats? -- host: what about the democrats? guest: i think jamming it through on a partyline vote was a mistake. and i also think they have just been overconfident about how popular this was going to be. you did here in the ring of 2010 some democrats say, well, as soon as this becomes into effect, people will start liking it. you still here right now. you hear people hearing about it i'm a that now that the exchanges are online and the subsidies are flowing, it will become more popular. and impossible to get rid of. that has certainly been the case

for past programs. but there are differences with the way obamacare is designed that is going to make it politically vulnerable for some years to come. host: pittsburgh, pennsylvania. republican line. your, please go ahead for question or comment for ramesh ponnuru. caller: lee's bear with me. as important as this is, syria brings up a more important issue. obama goes in front of the united nations and blames the government of syria for gassing people and cute and believes it is the rebels. who does the united nations believe? tin.n -- pu he went around the world sang america made mistakes, we are not exceptional. benghazi he blamed on a video. would you trust this guys? i think there are a lot of people in this country who don't trust him anymore, either.

everybody seems to miss this part when the united nations did not agree with them and agreed with putin over him. when has that ever happened? host: mr. ponnuru, we are venturing into foreign policy. i don't know if that is an issue you want to comment on. guest: i think he is referring to the fact that the u.n. resolution on syria was agnostic on the question of who used the poison gas, which i think it's a reflection of the diplomatic imperatives rather than actually any doubt held by most u.n. member states. i think it was just largely the russian government, which probably itself understands that the syrian regime is most likely to abuse the weapons but doesn't want to concede or admit that because they are allies. the proximity of your offices to capitol hill, have you ever had members of congress stop by? .uest: oh, sure

or sometimes we will go over to their offices to interview them. we tend to be a bit more mobile than they are. host: r randall, democrat. caller: ok. i have several points. -- i assume ite is a parliamentary thing -- but if the hastert rule was not used to give aynor -- john boehner cover where he needs the majority of republicans to vote on the bill, we could get work done, because that is not really a constitutional rule. secondly, republicans did not have the will to do the plan. it took 18 months to negotiate almost in bad faith, like the people saying the iranians would , after having 18

months of his presidency wasted, decided to go with a democratic majority in the house and senate. lastly, he won twice. where is the opposition to the law when he won twice on the law? , i thinkastert rule you all have given him a pass, boehner, because that is the real holdup on the passing of the continuing resolution and several other things. host: we got the point, randall. mr. ponnuru? to the question of republicans not negotiating for the first 18 months of his presidency. well, you know, look, they come , actually january of 2009, the republicans are pretty nervous about opposing president obama. he has just won, his popularity is really through the roof.

republicans have really been pummeled in two back-to-back elections and then nancy pelosi and david obey, house democrats, basically write a stimulus bill with no input from republicans and jam it through. of course, they are going to start in an opposition mode when they are provoked in that way. negotiations,e nothing particularly significant was ever negotiated with the house republicans. know, i would have opposed this bill even if it included federal malpractice limits. but they didn't even do that. basically the obamacare -- the core design of obamacare, except for the public option, which had to go because of democratic opposition, not as much republican opposition -- this was presented as a sort of this wonderful flying machine and you can't get rid of one part of it without jumping the whole -- a jump in the whole thing. it was kind of a take it or leave it deal, and republicans

decided to leave it. and that, i think, is a sign of om of the plan. we keep hearing that it is so terrible that republicans in the states are not cooperating with obamacare, they are not expanding medicaid, they are not setting up exchanges. look, the law allows them to do that. unless you're law has a provision that magically causes all opposition to disappear, in a country where most people oppose it, that is part of your plan. host: the definition of the hastert rule is? hastert role is not really a parliamentary rule. it is the house leadership's determination not to pass bills on the floor of the house that don't have the support of the majority of house republicans. i think there is nothing unconstitutional about that. i do think it has made it harder

to govern in some respects, and it has been, in fact, relaxed and abandoned on a few important occasions because of that. and john boehner just said yesterday, according to "the new york times" that he would abandon the hastert rule if it meant raising the debt ceiling and prevent the default. although it is frustrating to liberal, i don't know if it is quite as an abomination as the caller makes it sound like. suite --n patriot tweets in -- what about the language of the hot democrats are using against conservatives? guest: i don't think it is particularly helpful rhetoric, and i don't think is -- it is particularly consistent with the calls you have heard from a lot of democrats on civility in public life. beyond that, i guess i wouldn't

get too worked up about it. hot word gets spoken in politics. host: lila is in rockville, maryland. independent line. caller: i have been listening to c-span for quite a few months and it has been an educational tool for me to cap and what is going on in our nation and country. we as americans and every caller on here, you must get people on so people can get educated on what is going on. as an overall picture, what i see is we as americans need to get involved, engaged, and we need to figure out what it is we need here, and it is all in the numbers. what money is coming in and what you are going to do with it and what forms and social reforms and what is needed to run this country, to educate this be a, get rid of crime through education and to see how we can fund this. we have an influx of people coming into this country who did not build this country and all

of us who have been here and paying our taxes for years and using our money to build the state park and build our government and build our country as the entity as it is, it is worth saving and we have a lot going on for us. we are not going bankrupt like so many other countries are, and we need to band together to appropriate the funds in the right direction so that people get the money that they need for health and education and for the welfare of our country. and people don't need to get tied up into the little politics issues and the wars and the debates because of those people who are government, we hire them, we pay them to do the job and we will pick back up and get back onto every gm of what we are going to do with our money, but i just hope and pray that it is a wise decision with some wise decision makers who know about money -- host: all right, let's leave it there. mr. ponnuru? gree wholeheartedly

with her support for c-span and with her hope that people, the voters and elected officials make wise decisions. literallyrman meow tweets in -- can you discuss the risk and benefits of the piecemeal funding strategy? tweeter is are mentioning is that congressional republicans have been calling for bills that fund parts of the government and get those parts of the government running even during the shutdown. we heard about, problems at the national institutes of health resulting from the shutdown, and people in that are being shut down or at least disrupted.

and republicans are saying let's fund that part of the government. and harry reid said the other day, why would we do that? the idea being it is just wrong to negotiate and that they should reopen the government .ltogether it makes a lot of sense as a republican strategy, to one thing, try to shift some of the the worst outcomes of the shutdown back to the democrats. and i think there are some real risks to the democrats of being so inflexible. of 1995-1996 and not shut down the democrats, green to detect a small bills to open a part of the government. host: texas, republican line. caller: hi. i have a little bit to say. died six months ago,

leaving my mom with very good medical care. my mom now is dealing with that, she needsith an infusion once a month. three days ago, she was cut off, and this is due to the medical problem we are having in our state. this.aving an issue with host: all right -- guest: i am sorry to hear about those circumstances. to hear abouty those circumstances. i guess i would need to know a little bit more about what happened to the health insurance in order to offer any kind of answer. in absence of that, i would just say i believe it is very important for us to come up with

a decent health care policies that help people in your circumstances and other people who circumstances. i don't believe, unfortunately, that the existing law, the affordable care act is going to be that answer. host: mr. ponnuru, the republican study committee came up with a health care proposal and one of the ideas was getting .id of state-by-state insurance is that a viable option? guest: i think the plan -- the republican study committee, about 175 house republicans, the conservative group in the party. i think that plan has real progress. i think what they were saying about allowing insurers to sell policies across state lines. right now they get to each put their own regulatory mandate on insurance policies. and that keeps insurers from

building national insurance pool when they are selling to the individual market. so, what they are saying is let states sell across state lines. they will probably gravitate toward the states that have less regulation, not no regulation. the same time, because consumers want things that cover things, there will be pressure to make sure there are not insurance companies that just a cover anything. i think it is a good model. i don't think it is enough by itself does all our health care problems but i think it is an important positive that. and, by the way, there are other things in that plan. host: the front page of "the washington times" this morning, the lead story. dr. carson, his -- the latest on list of conservatives targeted by the irs. i am sure you heard about him talking about that. and it shows that other targets

have been christine o'donnell, reverend franklin graham, and national organization for marriage, they have all been audited easily. where there is smoke, there is fire, mr. ponnuru? guest: we don't have any proof that there is a deliberate, concerted effort to target these conservative individuals. but i don't have a great deal of confidence in the irs, particularly given the revelations earlier this year or about -- this year about how they treated the application for taxes and status for tea party and conservative groups. there have been a number of things the irs has done over the last few years. for example, the targeting for audits, people who have adopted children who have been taking the adoption tax credit. i believe two years ago, i

believe 69% of people who took the adoption tax credit were audited, which the inspector general was saying couldn't be justified. so, i just don't have any confidence in the irs. and i would take these sorts of allegations pretty furiously. host: ramesh ponnuru is also the author of the party of death -- the democrats, media and court on the disregard of human life. about thissk you "new york times" article. wendy davis entering the governor's race in texas. well, of course, wendy davis came to national fame -- infamy and some circles legislationstering in taxes that would have imposed new regulatory standards on xasrtion clinics -- in te that would have imposed the revelatory standards on abortion clinics and made illegal some

late-term abortions, after 20 weeks of presidency. they rallied around her to run for governor. i really think it is a long shot. i don't think the public as a whole in our country supports late-term abortion, and i think people in texas supported even less. but we will get to see her make her case and see if she can overcome those odd. host: st. clair shores, michigan. thanks for holding. you are on "washington journal." caller: let's put the facts on the table. the president won again running on health care, he signed it into a bill. it went to the supreme court and they passed it. republicans were asked to come to the table 18 times and did not and played all their little games with the little tea party that they now know -- how do we get out of this mess? let the health care go through. then we can tweak it.

i am tired of it. is everyone having a brain tumor for breakfast? what is going on? guest: that is an impressive amount of sneering for a short comment. i would say that the design of this law does not leave much room for, as the caller put it, improvesthat really it. it is, by its nature, going to rely on a pretty heavy regulation of insurers that suppresses the competition that people who are against it would like. the problem is, you just that have two very different visions of what health insurance should look like a knowledge of work and you cannot meld them together in one piece of legislation. i would just repeat again, yes, the president won the election and republicans won bears as well. on fact that something is

the books does not mean you can't change it or repeal it. you can. president bush's tax cuts of 2001-2003 did not cause the democratic party to just say, well, that is over, we are going to leave it in place forever. a campaign for a decade to get rid of them. and they did succeed eventually in getting rid of a part of them. you've got state after state that has enacted a voter id laws .ver liberal opposition with public support. the supreme court said it is constitutional. i don't the democrats giving up and saying it is the law of the land. they continue to organize, make the case. they are hoping to overturn those laws. it is absolutely their right. it is within the norms of political conduct. and republicans have the same sort of you about this health care law. the difference being that most americans oppose this health- care law. host: fran in chesapeake,

virginia. you are the last call for ramesh ponnuru of "national review your ." i'll echo good morning. i am totally independent but entirely against the health-care law. ever since we started, everything he said me my family would not lose, we did. we lost our doctor, our insurance, and a premiums tripled. we used to be middle-class but now we are struggling to even make it because of the cost of our premiums. love, our deductibles are out of sight and we have more out-of- pocket that we have to spend what we see our doctors. pen, obamaroke of a took out what he didn't like law, it was signed into ratified as a tax by the supreme court and change what he did not like. why can't he change things for us, the regular people, who really support this country through their jobs and taxes? and i don't think congress,

their staff, white house and their staff, should have gotten a pass on obamacare or delay or anything -- or any big business, because we are paying 75% of their insurance premium. how is that right? host: mr. ponnuru? raisesi think the caller a number of very good point. the president campaigning said that this law was going to result in a reduction in premiums of $2500 for the average family. that is not only a mistaken estimate, he's got the sign wrong, the premiums are increasing. the president said if you like your health insurance, you are going to be able to keep it under the law. in fact, the law helped set in motion forces that will cause people who like their insurance to lose it. and the caller is also right that the president, even though

he is insisting this is the law of the land that should no longer be resisted, as in fact not been particularly concerned himself in a bathing the law but rather the admitted -- obeying the law but rather the administration keeps rewriting it for political convenience. we saw it, for example, with the delay of the employer mandate. and we haven't seen it on things that might make more of a difference to your average person, like a delay of this tax on people who don't buy insurance. so, i think all of its gets to the gap between the president's rhetoric, the president's promises on the one hand, and the results of this policy on the other, and that is the sort of thing that insurers, contrary to what some of our callers have wanted, that the opposition to this and the controversy over this will continue. host: finally, ramesh ponnuru, jimmy will have been watching the program, tweets in. did you just say the dems are being inflexible?

yes, i didink that, say that. i said that because on some issues, they are. they are not, for example, allowing a consensus that certain parts of the government should reopen to take effect. you can disapprove of what the republicans are doing and their general strategy -- and as i said several times this morning and several times in print, i don't think what they are doing is a good idea. alson saying that, you have to hold open the possibility that maybe democrats are not completely blameless. some of the things they are doing are wrong, too. you can in fact overreach to a response to -- in response to an overreach. host: ramesh ponnuru, senior editor at "national review." more gas from the d.c. offices of "national review," and that is jonathan strong, a political reporter.

all morning long we have been at that publication by cdc offices, and we continue in just a minute. publication's d.c. offices. was the powerbroker behind her husband's administration, and after he died as news of corruption began to emerge, she burned his letters and documents in an attempt to preserve his legacy. watch the program on first lady florence harding, friday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. live monday the series continues. >> this is where calvin and grace met for the first time. she was a teacher living in a dormitory and he was a tenant in a boarding house on the property. we are now and grace's bedroom in the door at -- in the

dormitory buildings and this window is where grace would have looked out and seeing calvin across the courtyard in the next building and she would have put a candle in the window to signify to calvin that the parlor room below that the parlor room below them was available for them to meet up in. in this room is where calvin and grace when they were courting would meet up and be able to sit and talk and have some time together. despite him being in his 30's and her in her 20's, they had to abide by the rules of the school and needed to meet somewhere where they were supervised and chaperones while they were on campus. >> meet first lady grace coolidge, monday night live on -- 8:00 -- 9:00 eastern on c- span and c-span3 and also c-span radio and www.c-span.org. >> good leaders, really good leaders, are often inpatient. they are often somewhat intemperate. they are sometimes arbitrary.

who always leader listens to everyone, who always listens to all the viewpoints, wants to make sure that everybody is convinced before he or she finally makes a decision, you just lose valuable time. and i think a good leader does have a sense of impatience, is impatient in overly long meetings where a lot of people make contributions to demonstrate their knowledge as opposed to actually advancing the cause of the meeting. violate gooders management behavior in that they say, stop talking about that, please, we heard it before. the only thing you can do to say, just keep quiet, please, we need to get it over with. >> what to find a great leader? idiot"z on "icons an part of booktv this weekend on c-span2. >> "washington journal" continues.

host: joining us from "national politicalc. office is reporter jonathan strong. mr. strong, thank you for your time. i wanted to ask about one of your recent articles. shutdown could last weeks -- that is the headlight. how much longer will it last, the you think, and how will it come out? guest: when i talk to republicans on the hill, generally speaking their expectation is that we are not going to have a resolution to the shutdown until we have a resolution also to the that ceiling. of thehat the deadline debt ceiling is october 17, this next easily stretchso, week. so it is not close to being over, as we can tell. we could see a switch in the positions of democrats and republicans.

they could find some kind of faith -- face-saving way to wrap it up above both sides are very much dug in and the people closest to the process are not expecting there to be a quick resolution. >> how much is the debt ceiling in the current talks and negotiations, interparty meetings, how much of a discussed at this point? seeing is the are republicans are starting to talk through what they want to see accomplished as part of raising the debt ceiling. so, it is still a kind of a republican only conversation. meanwhile, the democrats -- president obama is putting it out everywhere. the white house aides are telling reporters, liberal magazine journalist, that he is not going to negotiate. he is saying it publicly, trying to put it out as strongly as he possibly can, as convincingly as he possibly can, that he will not negotiate whatsoever on the

debt ceiling. so, kind of this staring contest right now between the parties. and there is not a lot of actual conversation between them at this point. host: what should we expect on the floor of the house or the floor of the senate today? guest: they are going to be continuing to pass what i call these rifle shot bills. and they essentially take some part of government spending, that is particularly property oll footagepular b r on the news, like national parks, and funded and pressure senator harry reid to not fund it, which he is not doing. it puts a little pressure on the democrats. they are going to continue with that strategy for the time being. host: jonathan strong -- and by the way, we will continue to take your calls on the numbers will be up there in just a minute -- so you can continue to die libido live from national so yous d.c. offices --

tinue to dial in.ie only article, mr. strong, you talk about the fact that this goes back to a couple of days ago, about house and senate employees getting subsidies or g etting employer contributions. thesay that when it came to health care issue, that john boehner was not necessarily at fault, that he was actually fighting back. am i getting that correct? guest: you know, there was a long period of confusion and uncertainty about how obamacare would apply to lawmakers and congressional staff. and there was tremendous amount of work behind the scenes.

then the obama administration issued a regulation saying the government would continue to pay essentially about $12,000 for a family for their health care for them to purchase on the exchange markets. and this has become controversial. people have called it a special exemption for congress. and john boehner went ahead and decided to put a repeal of this subsidies in the latest iteration of his cr, his government funding bill. and then what happened was senate majority leader harry reid, his office leaked a lot of the correspondence that showed has beener -- boehner working with him on that solution that he is now against them there has been a debate how complicit john boehner was and whether he was actually working with them or not. and i am going to be reviewing some of the documents later on today. host: jonathan strong, how

united right now are the republicans? guest: you know, it is interesting. a whole civil war over the last couple of months. nowi have to say that right that probably the most unified they have been in a while, especially the house republicans . the meetings they have had over the last few days, people generally seem to be comfortable with where they are politically, that there is not a lot of panic. you know, you do have some of the moderate members who are feeling the heat at home, the by and large, a lot of these house republicans are very happy to be fighting the good fight and trying to delay the health-care law that was deeply unpopular to the people that they represent. so, i would say that i think there are deep seizures -- fissures of divide between the

republicans but we are not seeing the symptoms as we have been in the last couple of months right at this very moment. host: all from chesapeake, virginia, on the republican line. you are next from genet -- for jonathan strong. guest: you seem to have some viewers and chesapeake today -- caller: you seem to have some viewers in chesapeake today. on the affordable care act, the president keeps saying it has nothing to do with the budget, but if there -- if it has nothing to do with the budget that would've the problem passing the cr? secondly, a little-known fact during the clinton administration. they passed funding for each of the departments except for one or two. and that created a partial shutdown. and lastly, the little-known fact is that during that same

administration, dan rostenkowski from illinois passed a catastrophic health care bill. now, that went into law. six months later, unless repeal repealed it.ss i don't see the issue if the aca has nothing to do, as the president says, with funding the government. guest: any response for the caller? guest: -- host: any response for the caller? guest: as he watched the debate over time as a reporter and you hear the back-and-forth between the two sides, one of the patterns i've noticed is politicians are kind of geniuses at coming up with inventing such for war i -- for why

and such is out of bounds. you saw john boehner inventing a role essentially that you can't raise the debt ceiling unless there are spending cuts or reforms of equal or greater magnitude to be amount the debt ceiling is raised. rule. are under this obama is trying to invent a standard here that obamacare has nothing to do with the budget. as the caller notes, obviously it is part of the budget and a sense that the government is spending money on the health- care law. but obama is trying to distinguish between the purpose of this bill and a law that passed a long time ago and get people to say this is unfair, this is not right. i think you really have to come down to that there is no real objective standard to what should happen here. there is just a subjective perspective on what you want to happen, and politicians are always trying to come up with ways to defend that.

host: bradenton, florida. citizen. am a senior looking back at history, i think of the republican party had their way we would not have medicare or social purity given the fights -- social security given the fights they put up on those things. i think the problem here is a lack of understanding of the affordable care act. i had written a letter to the white house certainly -- shortly after this came up that they should use the term obamacare and be proud of it because it is something that work in massachusetts and i believe it will work for the country. lastly, i think there are problems with it. it is not perfect. but the problems should be corrected. it should not be that they throw the whole idea out. and thank you for taking my call. have a great day. host: mr. strong?

guest: i think the key distinction between medicare and social security and obamacare is obamacare is a historical anomaly in a sense that we have never seen such a broad repudiation of a major law like this to last for so long and be felt so deeply. yes, there was resistance to medicare in certain quarters but the law kind of quickly overcame that. and i think it all goes back to kind of hal the affordable care act -- how the affordable care act was passed. it was a very partisan fight. scott brown was elected in massachusetts at the height of this debate. and the democrats still went ahead of it. -- ahead with it. it was bitterly contested. the care and social security had fairly large bipartisan majorities when it was passed --

medicare and social security had fairly large bipartisan majorities. to passot a consensus this law and we are seeing this war go on and on. review"or of "national had a column that went into this and how this fight is just beginning over the cr, because the law as it is being implemented, about half the country does not want it or does not like it and the fight is not likely to end anytime soon. host: "the obamacare fight is just beginning" rich lowry's column, available at "national review" online. magazine and "the washington times" this morning opines on grand bargain and what you call a modest bargain. works? still in the is there still a chance of making this bigger than just funding the government?

we know that speaker john boehner once a big deal, and a grand bargain, of sorts. we don't know precisely what he means by that. and we don't have a real reason democrats arethe ready to negotiate any kind of grand bargain. in fact, we reported on "national review" that at the meeting at the white house with the top four congressional meters, john boehner brought up this idea and some of the democrats laughed at him. it doesn't seem like they are really in the mood to negotiate that. at the same time there are strong currents of desire within the republican ranks. yesterday i spoke to fromsentative womack arkansas, on the tuesday group, one of the moderate guys. and he really thought that this is the moment that we can strike a grand bargain and make some significant progress on the

entitlement reform, do tax reform to raise some new revenues and get the government on a fiscally sustainable path. there is some optimism, but i don't know if it is warranted. into you.an tweets just a small group of extremists who hate the government driving the shutdown. it now.ow -- anend guest: there is something to the idea of a small number of house republicans are driving the decision for the whole conference, in the sense that the house leadership had an idea, had a plan to pass essentially a clean government , and there were a number of people, a small minority of the republicans, who vote fore -- wouldn't it, prevented it from coming to the house floor, and at that point speaker boehner decided to

embrace the full push to defund obamacare that was later pulled down to a relatively modest demand. however, that being said, when john boehner told his house republican said that he wanted to do this, put the defund obamacare provision in there, the republicans of the room -- in the room were ecstatic. the congressman from arizona told me that people went bonkers, is how he told it. so it is not exactly clear that just because the decision was forced by the small group of people, it does not mean that the majority of the house republicans were not on board with the decision when it was made. host: this was last week's "bloomberg businessweek" cover story. john boehner doesn't run congress. meet the man who does. when you open to the article, there is a big picture of jim demint, former senator and now head of the heritage foundation.

what is his role in all of this? emint is a very powerful figure in the republican party right now. he left the senate and when to run the heritage foundation, which has a great reputation in town. it has always been something of a more academic institution focused on research than it has been under jim demint's tenure. to take it into a more activist role. he started vigorously lobbying the hill, holding republican members accountable in very aggressive ways for votes that they deemed not to be conservative. at the same time, it is less is inemand -- demint control of the republican party and more that no one who -- is in control. the amount of chaos in the last

two months as they have been trying to decide their way forward is amazing. it is a free-for-all. there is a vacuum of leadership. ted cruz fielded in the august recess, but whether he can maintain his grip on it, i think, is very, very much in question. i think that is my take on where the republican is right now. host: lehigh acres, florida. thanks for holding on. you are on with jonathan strong of "national review." caller: a veteran of world war ii told me some time ago, do you see how divided people are in this country? don't let it fool you. ofn world war ii broke out this country was threatened, the poor, the rich, and the in between, you never saw a people get together so fast. what does it take? i have been trying to get my service connected disability

since i was out of the marine corps in 1968. and i finally got through almost 30 years later and ended up with non-service-connected disability. i was awarded a medical discharge, 30%. i wrote a letter to washington, d.c., a certified letter a few years ago and they never got a response. i got a letter back from the non-and they gave me service-connected disability. host: so, lawrence, what would you like our guest to respond to? caller: what does it take for people to work together in this country? host: thank you. i think we got the point. jonathan strong? guest: i was in high school during the september 11 attack and i have a vivid memory of a rally that withheld, it was in northern virginia, where i grew k with people who

just spontaneously came out waving american flags. among saw complete unity the american public for a while. and it is amazing kind of how quickly that dissipated as we became entangled overseas wars and whatnot. bring ay war can country together like the caller noted. however, it does seem that when the immediate peril fades from people's minds, that affected doesn't seem to last very long. host: my thoughts -- michael from lithia springs, georgia, democrat line. caller: my point is right here -- democrats need to stop being week and be engaged. you have the right wing. i'm a federal employee. today i am sitting home in my pajamas while this guy in a suit

and tie promoting republicans. when george bush passed no child left behind, democrats didn't like it at all. we did not support it but he was the president and we stood behind. president obama passed a law, and what a republicans doing question marks heading down the government. i don't remember any year during george bush that the government was shut down. now it is shutdown. come on. host: michael, what department are you from? caller: the irs. and i heard another clown talking about the irs targeting people. i cannot open up a case, look at a file or do anything. there are laws in place for that. yet republicans can get on tv, and to me, c-span is a joke for letting them do it, and say these things about the government and have these crazy loons believing it is true. yesterday we didn't know who it was shooting at the white house. to me it is a joke. democrats just need to be strong. to these republican

calling. what will happen to my social security? what will happen to my welfare or whatever? let them feel the pain. don't open the government back up. i stand behind the president. host: jonathan strong? yeah, you know, when you look back to the bush years -- for instance, no child left behind that the caller mentioned, president bush worked the ted kennedy, known as liberal lion of the senate on that law. was when example george w. bush wanted to reform social security, democrats formed a very steadfast opposition. nancy pelosi at an event last year actually explained that the key to their big three was they did not embrace an alternative plan to reform social security. it was very important that there was no contest between competing plans him as she said. had to just vigorously denounce the plan that president bush

would forward. it is true that there was no government shutdown. and it is true that nancy pelosi -- kind of backed down backed down from using appropriations bills as a chance to contest president bush on the iraq war. i don't know if that is because she thought that that was the right thing to do or cause she thought that it would be a losing political battle, but i suspect it is the latter. the last point i would like to say to the caller, with respect youis personal situation -- know, i understand he has certain rules and protocols in place. but i think we have seen some pretty undeniable evidence that the irs evidently did abuse its role. i mean, i have talked to conservative organizations that were under this special scrutiny. i have to imagine that people who are back home don't quite appreciate someone from the irs telling them that nothing went wrong. so, that is my comment on that.

host: jonathan strong. thomas shipman tweets in -- will speaker boehner wind speakership in 2014 if he gives a clean continuing resolution? the question is less about a clean continuing resolution bandit is the debt ceiling. -- than it is the debt ceiling. everyone is fighting about the continuing resolution now. the government is shut down. i don't think john boehner has any intention of passing a clean continuing resolution. but the issue that is really more important to the power brokers the right in the republican conference -- paul ryan, tom price, jeb hensarling -- those guys are looking for a the debt ceiling. that is what they are really concerned about and that is what will be important to john boehner's speakership. the other thing is whether john

boehner comes back in 2014 -- after 2014, is an open question. there is a good number of people in washington who don't think he will come back. he has told some of his close allies he is coming back. it is not the kind of thing where he will broadcast what his intentions are if he wasn't coming back. --givenverick tweets in the current history, republicans have already received concessions when reid agrees to fund it sequestration levels. guest: you know, the democrats say that a lot. but the fact is, though, that sequestration is the law of the land because it was already agreed to as because -- part of the 2011 budget agreement. so it doesn't seem to me personally to be a concession to continue to abide by something that was already previously agreed to.

host: jerry in california. republican line. you are on the "washington journal" with jonathan strong of "national review." caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to say that i have never been more proud to be a republican dan i am right now. -- than i am right now. host: why is that? caller: because of the way the republicans are standing up for what is right. and i do have a question that is really bothering me, and i have been trying to get through to you for a while. are so many people exempt from this law, that it is going to destroy the middle class. if this law goes into force. now, one of the exemptions -- i am not just talking about the mexican population.

i am not just talking about japanese. we have a lot of people who live in this country. are they going to be exempt because they are not citizens? host: all right. mr. strong, any answer? couldn'tm afraid i quite follow her .1 the health- care law. on the health-care law. her sentiment of being excited about republican standing up, that is the kind of thing you heard about house republicans meetingthe meaning -- when john boehner announced he would be pursuing the strategy. one representative, joe barton , in aaxes -- texas closed-door meeting, saying it was the best thing he heard from leadership in 16 years. he was very enthused. republicanshen

really take the fight to president obama on an issue like this, there are people in the base and in the party who really appreciate that and really want to try to get a big victory for their policy goals. host: how does that contrast with the senate gop meetings, and from what we have been reading, the take on senator cruiz? -- senator ted cruz. guest: the senate is a very different beast. the people in the senate tend to be a little more senior. they have been in politics a lot longer time. a statewide race, meaning that they appeal to a broader set of people usually. and they have more acute political concerns in terms of how independents and democrats are feeling, because their states generally are not gerrymander to be heavily

republican. and they have a very different culture in the senate. it is very collegial. and there are fewer of them. so, they have their own distinct take on this. are vehemently opposed to the direction, pland and senator leahy's plane. things have become very acrimonious. -- senator lee's plan. thing become ugly with a senator cruz becoming confronted by his colleagues. host: have you looked at money figures? has this benefited the political parties at all? guest: one of the interesting things, when senator cruz goes on tv and does interviews, you often see him mention a website, t.com which has at

least over one million signatories on a position to defund the health-care law and may have over 2 million at this point. one of the interesting things is, that website is operated by the senate conservatives fund, matt is a pac operated by hodgkins, former aide to senator jim demint. he is running his own shop, but there is clearly a collaboration im, an effortand h to use that not just to drive support for their proposals but also to retain the information that they gain each time somebody signed the petition. they have 2 million signatories to a position, which also means they have 2 million new e-mail addresses which they can send solicitations for donations or anything else. so, it has been a fundraiser -- fundraising boon for

conservatives and i think a fundraising boon for liberal groups, democratic groups that want to run ads to scare people about what the republicans are doing. but i am not sure if the republican party itself am of the party organs, have been able to benefit much from this. host: washington. independent line. we have about two minutes left. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think we need to get back to "we the people," that what is good for one is good for all und er the law. saint obamacare is a law, we already see what it has done -- saying obamacare is a law, we are ready see what it has done. listening to people in the military. talking about funding this and that. they are getting funds from people like myself, through our bankinto

accounts. now i am well over 65. my bank account doesn't allow me to buy insurance. i spent the last five days trying to find health insurance, which does not necessarily give you health care. i just appreciate you taking my call. i think we need to get that to being "we the people" under the constitution, liberty, and justice for all. thank you. host: any comment for that viewer? guest: you know, when you look back at the founding of the ,ountry, james madison considered the principal author of the constitution, in federalist 10, his most famous writing from that body of work and he talked about the common good. there was kind of a very unique understanding of what that meant . in federalist 10, he talks about

all the ways the government is designed so that they're almost has to be consensus for things so that ensures that the people that are enacted into law are in the common good, the good of everyone. and i think when people complain about the dysfunction in congress, it is important to remember that when it is more difficult for things to pass, it also makes it more likely that the things that do pass are in the best interest of everyone and not kind of a small contingent of the populace. host: once again, what should we expect in the house and senate today? guest: the house is going to continue with these rifle shot different parts of the government. it puts a lot of pressure on harry reid to kind of -- when he reads that -- rejects it, people ask why won't you do this? he faced a question the other day, if you could help one child who had cancer, why wouldn't you do it? at the same time, they are going

to come back until the republicans to pass a clean bill that funds the entire government without touching obama care. we are going to see that battle play into the weekend and continue in the next week at this point. host: jonathan strong, political reporter for "national review," we appreciate your time and we andeciate "national we operate take their space in their d.c. office. october 31, we will be live at mother jones magazine's d.c. office. now the house of representatives in session. use a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's room, washington, d.c., october 4, 2013. i hereby appoint the honorable george holding to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives.