october and how to understand how to make that transition. because these transitions in the past have been difficult, congress authorizes a carryover opportunity, but it limits what i can carry over. and one in one department it may be 4% new york another it may go as high as 10%, but these are limitations. i need to understand what we are doing to close out properly so i can determine what our carryover will be, so i can meet congress' intent, and it usually takes me about 10 days at the end of a fiscal year to be able to bring this to order. about today is when i would have these factors coming together and in fact this week would have been the week that i would have

my f.y. 2014 execution meetings with the various accounts. i would just tell you these factors are coming together daily, and there are adjustments here in how much money is available and the rate at which those funds will last. so we're doing the best we can. two things we are doing here. we're trying to keep our operations going for as long as possible to where we are allowed by exception under the law to take kear of as many veterans as we can, for as long as possible. the other thing i have to do is make sure i'm taking care of our employees so that i'm not telling people that they're going to be furloughed when in fact they aren't going to be. there's a period of time here, not to be alarmist, but at an appropriate moment when we know we're going to have to -- we're not going to have a budget, we'll have to take other steps, that we will inform our

employees that they are going to be furloughed. the ones that have been furloughed, we have gone through this process. but it's not just telling them, you're furloughed, close the door, and leave. we're going to get bauget here at some point, mr. chairman. what i want our offices to be able to do is come back and as soon as capable be up and running at full speed. and that requires us to close in an orderly function. if i would, forgive me, i'll fall back to my military experience, at the end of the day, i want everyone in a fighting position to organize for whatever might happen that night. grenades in one location, rifles aiming left and right, ammunition, walter, be prepare. i want us to be in the same position that when we have a budget, people go back to work, we're running at full speed, we're taking care of veterans as quickly as we can.

i don't want to spend 30 days trying to figure out how to get back to that point. >> thank you, mr. speaker. mr. michaud. >> thank you, mr. sec retear. i understand why you can't predict what the senate will to or what the house will do, but there are two areas we can solve this, the senate can pass the full appropriation bill we passed four months ago to fund all of the v.a., or the house can pass a clean senate c.r. with that will get us, unfortunately it's still a c.r. but it will move us beyond this particular point. i understand your -- that even with the full milcon v.a. appropriation bill, there are still services that veterans will not be able to receive because other parts of the federal government are not up and operating because of the shutdown. i totally understand that. but it's my hope that the bulk of the v.a. can be taken care

of. my question to you, mr. secretary, you mentioned trying to get staff back up and running once the shutdown is done, if, say, today, that congress and the president was able to get the, you know, our act together, how long will it take the v.a. to get up and running, full steam ahead, and when will you be able to assess some of the damages, morely as it relates to the backlog that will take to get become on track again? >> i would say, congressman, at this point, you know, in some sections, hours, days in other sections but the longer we go, then the startup will just take longer. the fact is, you know, i've indicated that on 1 november, i will not be able to pay all these beneficiaries who are expecting those checks.

i need the authorization, appropriations, and a budget to be able to do that. and i don't do that independently. in order to make those claims decisions, i link into i.r.s. and social security, education with the department of education, small business. so i would say that what is best for veterans and for all of us right now is a -- a budget for the entire federal government. let us get back to work. the sooner we do it, the faster i get back up to full speed. >> we did a couple of years ago pass advanced appropriations -- >> we will briefly break away if this hearing and take you live to the white house for comments from house democrats. >> good evening. we just had a very positive meeting with the president of the united states. we expressed our appreciation to each other for standing strong for the american people, to open

government and to honor the full faith and credit of the united states of america. >> i want to say that the president emphasized over and over again what we also share and that is, he is willing to talk about all of the issues that our republican colleagues want to talk about and try to come to agreement but he's simply saying, we can talk while the government is open. the government doesn't need to be shut for us to talk. and we can talk while we make sure that the goth pays its bills. i think the american public agrees with that and we agree with the president on that issue. mr. clyburn? >> well, i think, i can't add any more to that. this was a great meeting, very positive, very upbeat, our members were very, very pleased with the discussion and the president was very firm. and we believe very strongly that the president is open for

discussions with anyone. the problem we've got right now is the american people, especially those who depend upon the federal government to work, ought to go back to work, we ought not keep them at bay while we have these discussions. >> the president reiterated that e -- >> you can see our video from the white house froze. we apologize. not sure if we'll be able to fix that. in the meantime, we'll take you back to the hear, the house -- oh, looks leek it's back. live coverage. >> we have the votes to open this government tomorrow. it takes one person to allow that vote to come to the floor, that is speaker boehner. >> we spent a good dole of timesharing story the president from his experience and our members from ours as to the

hardships that the american people are feeling because of the government shutdown. but it was individual -- whether it was individually or in some cases furloughing of contractors , it's about jobs, it's act the fact that our veterans make up a large percentage of the federal work force and a large percentage of those veterans are people with disabilities. so again, our emphasis is solving the problem, open government, negotiate, and honor the full faith and credit of the united states. we can take just a few questions. >> do you expect that to happen? >> i don't know what to expect. but i will say this. we have said that we are willing to give 200 votes as the distinguished whip said and others have said, 200 votes to open government, to go -- appoint conferees to go to the table to discuss the budget. and that is to say to the

republican leadership in the house, we accept your number, we accept your path to the table, take yes for an answer. we haven't heard any offer of a short-term, one way or another. >> are you open to the idea of a short-term debt ceiling encrease in a matter of just a few weeks? >> first of all, just to go become to the c.r., all we want is a short-term c.r. because we think the number is not acceptable. so we think that we need to take up that number, deal with it and when we go to the budget table is when we can resolve some of the issues that -- about the debt ceiling. that is to say the discussion will be a useful one. it shouldn't be any condition as to what happened with the debt ceiling. and there's no concession on the debt ceiling. the debt croling needs to be lifted. they're not getting anything for that. and we haven't seen an offer for that.

when we see an offer for that, we'll make a decision about that. >> can i make a comment? i want to make a comment on that. democrats are prepared to make sure that the government pays its bills. but good policy, good economics, and building confidence for the american people would be extending it for a substantial period of time so the markets will have the confidence of where we're going to be next week, next month, and next year. so that although i think the answer to your question is, we're not going to vote against making sure that america pays its bills, we think it ought to be a longer term for the economy and the growth of jobs. jobs, after all is really what we ought to be working on. >> how would you structure it to have the republicans confidence that once they give you what you want, that you truly would bar gain in good faith over the other issues?

>> wait a minute. we're giving them what they want. they want 986, none of us wants 986. we said yes to them for their number which we don't like. >> once those c.r.'s are -- >> ok, so once they accept, take yes for an answer to their bad number, then what? >> then how are they -- what do you do to convince them that once the c.r.'s are passed, you will return to the table to bargain. >> wait a minute. let's put this in perspective, very briefly. the beginning of march in the oval office, the republican leadership of the house and senate, mr. boehner and mr. mcconnel, said they wanted regular order. that means you pass a budget in the house, pass a budget in the senate, go to conference. that happened a few weeks later in the house and senate. then they said we don't want regular order anymore. and for six months we've been saying, that's what you said you wanted. now we're saying, ok, you've

shut down government, which is totally reckless and irresponsible. we're accepting your number of 986. for the next six weeks. to go to the regular order of going to the budget table to discuss our budget priorities. and that is the path that is regular order. >> leader pelosi, what was your assessment of the president's mood as to whether or not a deal could be struck. even today republicans said we're not going to send everybody over, we're only going to send over a few. >> that's a problem. our entire caucus was here. everybody was here. everybody was invited as far as we know, everybody was here. there may have been one or two people who didn't get in out of the rain. but everybody was invited. i don't think we can emphasize

enough the fact that when we accepted their 986 number, the number we accepted to start the negotiations. and boehner himself on sunday said that he did agrow to that in exchange for a clean c.r. however, he later found that his affordable the care act to be into this mix. but he agreed that we would have a short-term c.r. and fwoshte somewhere between our number of 1058 and their number of 986 over a six-week period. and if that's not negotiating, i don't know what is. >> let me just say this point, though, following up on my distinguished colleague's -- on my distinguished colleague, the assistant leader said.

this number is the number speaker boehner offered to leader reid. leader reid accepted this number. president obama accepted this -- accepted the republican house number. house democrats accepted the republican house number. the only people who are not accepting the republican house number are the republicans house leadership. and there are enough members in their peard who want to vote for a clean c.r. at that measure to open government at that number, we have given them 200 names on a piece of paper, people who don't believe that number is good enough but in order to open government they're willing to do it. what they're doning now, moving goal posts and changing views, taking back their commitment, is a luxury our country cannot fford. >> [inaudible] >> yes. the short-term c.r., there are two different things.

there are two different things. the short-term c.r. we're willing to agree to because the number is not sufficient as the chairman of the appropriations committee has said that number is not sufficient to conduct government. that's one of steny's favorite hooks, perhaps you'd like to make that one. that's a different story. a short-term debt limit is -- it doesn't restore confidence. it isn't a place to go. let's see what -- when we see them offer one we'll see what path they think that takes us down. >> [inaudible] >> if the alternative is to enege the default then -- as i said, when we see -- now, it may be humorous to you but it's only the global economy. it's only your 401k if you have one, interest rates on car

payments. no, there is. i don't think it's a responsible place to go. i hope that our colleagues would not do that, would just -- we're just at the same place as we were. excuse me? >> [inaudible] >> you have to talk to him about that. in any event what we are saying is, we have made every concession. we've conceded prerogatives of the minority that have never been conceded to the speaker to say if this makes you feel more comfortable, we'll not -- we'll smooth a path for you to go to the table. if we accept your number. so to talk about hypotheticals if they offer, what would you do, let's just see what they're offering. but they -- the only connection they have is the budget conference table. because that's where this negotiation should be taking place and with government open, the american people with more

confidence about their jobs, businesses are not having customers that they need because people are out of work and other people are uncertain. so this is a sad scenario for our country. thank you all very much. >> house democratic leadership, the democratic caucus meeting with president obama at the white house. some republicans will meet with the president tomorrow. here on c-span, we're going to take you back to today's hearing with secretary shin is seckey testifying before the veterans affairs committee on the impact of the government shutdown. >> something over 1,000, maybe less than 1,500 folks continue to operate in our 56 regional offices. and our call center. and the reason for that is, every veteran who submits a claim, we're required to accept it, date stamp it so there's a place in line for them to be recognized when funding is

restored. for education claims, students who are currently in school and as those come up, we will pay those like we do, the retroactive claims, but at some mponent that's a draw on the mandatory cap and that will end before the end of the month and i'll be required to furlough a large portion of that 13,000 fork worse. -- work force. >> thank you, sir. again, appreciate you being here. i yield back. >> thank you, ms. brownlee. mr. runyan, you're recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. secretary, thanks again for your testimony. you kind of answered a couple of my questions over there but what is the last day of this calendar month you can process payments for timely receipt on the first of the month? >> it will be later this month,

toward the end of the month, you know, the exact day is going to be determined by, pardon the term, the burn rate here and once the mandatory account is no longer solvent then we'll stop. but we're processing claims as fast and as hard as we can, as we were before 1 october, to ensure that we get as many of those claims ready to be paid as soon as the budget is provided. and that's the description i give our folks about setting up fighting position. when the budget is provide wed go to work and we start paying benefits. >> has there been any discussion within your department and or your staff on prioritization of claims, i.e. fully disabled, that type of thing, as you get near that deadline come the first of the month?

>> there are a good portion, i would say, over 400,000, 100% disabled veterans who will be affected by our inability to deliver checks on 1 november. five million beneficiaries, over five million, 5.18 million, i think, is a closer number. but a good portion of them, as i indicated who are 100% december abled. and a-- disabled. and among them, the survivors, surviving spouses, children, orphaned by the death of their service member or veteran parent. >> there's been no discussion of priority there? you're just doing it as they go through the process? >> while we're operating at, you know, while we have the funds to operate, we do prioritize in our

ocessing of claims for .inancially challenged veterans medal of honor recipients, former press for thes of war, terminally ill, and we add to that fully developed claims because they're easy to process but in the processing business that's where we give priority and then we work the remainder of the claims and i would say in september, we produced the biggest production output since i've been here, 128,000 claims. but once it goes into the payment process, congressman, there's a sequence that goes along with how they're -- how they've been put in line. >> going to the -- hopefully

when we get out of this mess, obviously chairing the subcommittee here dealing with the claims, is a project. can you provide information on v.b.a.'s funding and the future plans for use of mandatory overtime to address the backlog? mandatory use in the future. >> mandatory overtime? we use mandatory overtime, it's a device that's been used over the last several years when we see an opportunity and we want to get more production because for some reason we've gotten little, you know, behind. and so in may, we declared we would to this until the end of the year. our 2014 budget has $50 million in it for overtime. and that's essentially what i

was counting on, on 1 october, to transition to that. so we do have a plan. we do need that piece of the budget recognized so we can . sume our overtime option part of what we, as we begun to close out the year, before we knew that a shutdown was going to occur and as we were trying to assess how much carryover we were going to have, we thought we were going to be able to carryover $40 million to apply, to add to the $50 million that's in the budget so to give us, you know, a good run at the year of additional overtime so the numbers would be up there, closer to $100 million, $90 million or so. that $40 million was used to keep our operation going for as

long as possible. to get as many claims lined up before the end of the month. >> thank you for that. we had a hearing about some difficulty with legislative afares a couple of weeks back and have had issues with getting an answer like that, so i appreciate that. i yield back. >> thank you, mr. runyan. mrs. kirkpatrick, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. secretary. one of the important projects that the v.a. has been working on is the transition to a paperless system for claims benefit processing. and yet in your written testimony you say on monday, 2,764 o.i.t. employees were furloughed and then 7,800 v.b.a. employees furloughed yesterday. would you describe for me and for our committee what impact those furloughs are going to have on that transeducation to the paperless system? right now, given the snapshot right now, this week, and then what it looks like if this

shutdown continues into november ? >> very important question, congresswoman. as you know, we have set a long-term goal of end the -- ending the backlog in 2015. key to that has been the automated system we put into place and we feel that that finish -- we finished fielding that sex months ahead of schedule in june. that's fielding the, sort of the basic model. and much like any i.t. operation, you have, you know, newer versions that add capability, give you more robustness, and then reduce the workload. so all of those plans that have been in place, we've had to put a hold on. there's no new development work being done for vbms and there is much to be done if we're going to get this up to where we

expected we would have it to be le to hold our target of ending the backlog in 2015. i haven't given up on that. i'm hoping that we will have an opportunity here to get back on track, but the longer we go, the more difficult that becomes. what i would like to assure you, though, is that i am allowed by the rules to maintain what we have. i can't add, i can't make it better, i can't increase capability but i can and will maintain the operation. so if computers are having problems, i have sufficient work forest to to -- to -- work force to be able to bring them back online. >> basically what you're saying is any progress in the project has come to a screeching halt. >> that's correct. >> let me ask you, secretary, you were a general with an outstanding combat record and congress voted to pay federal

employees when the shutdown ends. so they're going to be paid. does it make any sense to you to ot allow them to work? >> i can't think of of many. and they are ready to work. they are -- i would just, you know, refer to the folks in benefits administration who have brought this backlog down, 193,000 claims in about 190 days, lots of folks wondered if we would be able to do it. vbms will be important to that effort but vbms is just coming online, all of this work was done by the good folks in the benefits administration. i would speak for them. they're disappointed that the ground they gained is being lost, day by day. >> i want to thank you for your leadership under the department

ap thank your employees for their good, hard work. thank you, i yield back. >> thank you very much. i would like to remind my colleague this only the house has passed a bill that would allow for furloughed workers, the senate continues to hold fast in not helping us resolve this particular situation. dr. benishek. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you, mr. secretary for being here today. i think all my colleagues would like to see this shutdown behind us as soon as possible. frankly, i wish that the appropriations process went on in regular order, that we passed appropriate appropriations for all of the segments of our government. i'm happy the house has passed the military construction and v.a. bill in a bipartisan fashion and hope that the senate acts on that. frankly, i think that the entire government should be funded in that usual fashion, that this

plcy of continuing resolution is just a bad policy. but nevertheless, you know, i understand that we have to get something done. i had a couple of questions about the communication between the v.a. and the committee here. as i understand it, and correct me if i'm wrong, apparently the department issued a notice in late september that 95% of v.a. employees would be either fully funded or exempted from furloughs. is that incorrect? >> i would ask for the opportunity to go and retrieve whatever this announcement you're referring to, but i would say if you look at v.a. as a whole, 90% of us are in v.h.a. and they are fully funded. and so as of 1 october, our spitals are seeing patients,

community-based outpatient clin exs are operating. so if this is the 95% that's being referred to, i would say, i can understand why that information was provided. but again, congressman, you know, trying to close out 2013 and understanding what kind of resource capability we're going to have, expecting that we're going to have a budget on 1 october, knowing that v.h.a. had a budget because it was passed last year, through the advanced appropriations provision that , i think e provided the 95% here is referring to v.h.a. because of advanced appropriations. >> ok. i tend to agree with you on the advanced funding issue. frankly, i don't see why we don't have two-year budgeting for everything. more time to get the appropriations done. but the president on september 30 end kated that some ptsd counseling would be affected by the shutdown.

is that true? >> i would say we are open for i believe v.a. and as i've said, we have ties to other departments. e i.h.s. and h.h.s., the indian healther is vess, we have veterans being served there who if those operations are not funded, are not being seen for any variety of requirements, ptsd being one. alaskan natives that we -- who are veterans that we provide services through -- services to through either the consortium there or through i.h.s. are probably not being seen. so -- and that's why i say, we can focus on v.a. as long as we understand that there's a

broader -- >> right. i understand that the cooperation with other departments will be hindered by this situation. there's no medical centers being shut down, though? they'll be open, is that correct? >> there is one that's affected. and that is north chicago. it's a joint initiative between the united states navy and v.a. it operates off a joint account in which we each contribute dollars. so that is affected. >> why is that being affected? i thought we funded the -- the president signed the bill to fund the military. >> the authorization to continue to fund that is the issue. however, we have accepted all of the civilian staff accepted,

meaning they will continue to work, continue to seer is vess members and veterans and families and then we'll look for an opportunity then to make right their compensation. >> i know i would like to get this behind us. i take this opportunity to urge my senate colleagues to come to the table and let's get this figured out. so thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. >> thank you, dr. benishek. ms. kuster, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you very much and thank you, secretary shinseki, for being with us today. my question has to do with the vet centers and the services that in my district, in new hampshire, are particularly valuable, the counseling, the group therapy, and just having a place to go, and i'm just wondering where this falls in the shutdown. >> all 300 vet centers will

continue to operate. they are covered under the health administrations appropriation. they are funded for the year. >> ok, thank you. and then my next question has to the november 1 payments. could you give us a more accurate sense here, we very much want a clean continuing resolution, get the country back to work, get the government back to work but each day that goes by seems to be critical in this. is there, i would imagine, with the number of checks that go out, there's a process and a procedure that takes a period of time, could you give us a sense you talked about the end of the month, could you give us a sense of the number of days that a delay in reopening the government would cause a delay in those payments being received after the first of november?

>> sure. if the mandatory account, it's the account against which i am writing checks, so to speak, processing claims, and having them ready to be executed. but that account has demands written against it, it is exhausted at some point before the end of the month and the reason i can't be more specific, the rate at which i'm able to do this. but at -- before the end of the month, the mander to account will not support payments in november. even though i have checks, you know, lined up to draw against it. i think indicated $6.25 billion of requirements and i'll be down to about $2 billion and if i can't pay it all it stops. on 1 november, right nowing unless i can provide mandatory

funding to make the account solvent again, 1 november, i will not be sending checks out. >> then could you give us a sense of the scope of that, the types of people whose lives will be irrep rahably harmed and sort of the cat gores and numbers of that devastation? > i think i gave a rough pop leags of 5.18 million beneficiary, these are compensation payment, pension payments, these are education payments, and vocational rehabilitation and employment payments as well. within this category are veterans, there are also service members because we have active duty members who participate in some of our programs. we have surviving spouses and children who have lost parents.

>> and i know you can't speculate as to people's lives, but would you say that these are people that generally don't have a lot of savings to fall back on, that missing this type of disability check or compensation check could really set them back? >> our eligibility for v.a. benefits is usually income-based large i would say that a portion of the beneficiaries wer is vess are lower waged. and are in need of our help. there will be those who, by virtue of the severity of their combat injuries, will qualify because of that. but by and large, our patient population is older, sicker, and in need of support.

>> thank you, mr. secretary, i yield back my time, i appreciate you coming today and hope that your testimony will cause all of taos redouble our efforts to get the government back to work. thank you for your service. >> mr. secretary, did i hear you say that disability is income-based? disability ratings? >> no i said there are some, because of -- by virtue of the severity of their december abilities come in a higher category here. >> people with shaving bumps or leap apnea or hemorrhoids are all those december abilities that are out there today, that's -- they get this -- that regardless of income. >> mr. chairman, you're getting into some detail here that i'm probably want to give you a better answer for. i would just tell you that -- i'll do my best to answer your question on some of those issues

but 1 november, no mandatory account, 5.18 million beneficiaries don't receive checks. and in response to the congresswoman's question, a large portion of them are compensation or are ben fasheary checks are crucial to their being table have order in their lives. >> mr. huelskamp. >> thank you, mr. chairman. appreciate the opportunity and i really -- this is a difficult question to ask you, mr. shinseki, given the discussion we've had, but do you think senator reid doesn't like our veterans or the v.a. in particular? and it is a tough question. the reason i ask that, mr. secretary, is that as the chairman has indicated, 127 days ago, the u.s. house passed the

appropriations, 105 days ago, the appropriations committee actually sent to the floor of the u.s. senate and for 105 days now, senator harry reid has refused to bring the appropriations to a vote in the u.s. senate. have you visited with the senator and asked him, could you please bring that to a vote in the senate? >> mr. huelskamp i'm happy to answer the question about senator reid, personally, i think he very highly values veterans. as to why we are unable, congress is unable to do its business, i will leave to the embers to discuss. >> and i appreciate that. it is an issue in the u.s. senate. have you visited with the

senator and asked about the appropriations? i've been december pointed in the house that four of 12 appropriations bills is all we passed, that means eath of 12 have not passed here. but 12 of 12 have not passed in the senate and that's been the keas sense 2009. is there any indication in your visits with the senator that they would consider at least passing your appropriations, mr. shinseki? and i appreciate the work you've done to continue to meet the needs of our veterans in this shutdown period. >> to your specific question, have i visited senator reid over this, i would answer, i have not. that is not something i would ordinarily do. i deal with this committee and the appropriate committee in the senate when it comes to budget.

>> i haven't paired the budget that came out of the senate appropriations committee compared to what came through the house by a wide margin, hopefully it would meet your needs. i would encourage perhaps that conversation to take place. i would ask you specifically about cemeteries, are all your cemeteries still open for business and would they be impacted in late october like you end kated for other programs? >> congressman, that's a great question. i will tell you that our operations will continue. at some point here in the next days to weeks, we will extend our carryover -- expend our carryover moneys and we will be furloughing a good portion of the force. however, our cemeteries will go into modified burial schedule which means we will continue taking care of families and burying our honored, but it

won't be at the rate we had planned or would like. our cemeteries will be open for our normal hours, which is sunrise to sunset. you may see some of our maintenance standards go a bit because we won't be able to maintain the high standards we would like to have but that's all retrievable once we have a budget. the focus here is on taking care of families on a most painful day for them and making sure they feel that their veteran is respected and has been accorded a dignified burial. >> thank you, mr. secretary. i appreciate that assurance and your current work to make sure that's veable for our veterans and their families as well. you've seen the images of other federal places and locations that have been barricaded to our

veterans but i wanted to make certain we keep the cemeteries open and appreciate your work in doing that and making sure that does occur. i yield back my time, mr. chairman. >> thank you. >> thank you. i i think it goes without saying that we all care about the veterans of this country. what we do have a failure to communicate, to negotiate, and there's been a breaktown in the institutional process of how appropriation bills are in fact passed through both houses of congress. if i'm not mistaken, i think the v. ample milcon bill that's been passed out of the house only had four dissenting votes so suffice it to say it was an extremely bipartisan piece of legislation. mr. wals you're recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i would like to give the gentleman a moment to apologize. le to beneath our dignity

question someone's feeling about the country. >> thank you, i was asking the question, given that it's very clear as the chairman has indicated that senator reid controls the calendar and has the opportunity to move that bill to the floor and since this shutdown has occurred, unless there were recorded votes yesterday, we have had seven days in which there's been -- >> i reclaim my time. disappointed to say the least. i hope that goes on record. one thing i would say about this, this committee and i'm proud to serve on it is a place, one of the few places that still works in congress. the collaboration in here is incredible. the work that's done down to the granular level by subcommittees, that's a testament to you, mr. chairman that you give that power to people. i sat in this very chair arguing and maybing the case for advanced appropriations on v.h.a. with my colleagues and we did that.

that was progress. we've sat here and made progress. you know, mr. secretary, the work you've done, i'm proud of it. i've said it time and time again. i'm your staunchest supporter, but your harshest critic. the conscience that sets behind you representing millions of veterans expects that of it and et still works. what's so disappointing about this is, what's so disappointing when we get into this, we're wasting valuable time and resources by a self-inflicted wound that should be going forward our -- toward our veterans and it is so frustrating and what happens, i appreciate my colleagues on this but here's what happens. it starts to be cancerous into this committee. last week, when the bill came up on the veterans to try to do a mini c.r., be very clear about this. you're trying to find ways, and i respect that, but in that bill, mr. runyan was out in preston and held a field hearing

and made a great case for a veterans cemetery that's been needed for decades in southern minnesota. there's a grant process that you administer that ranked us number one. three weeks ago we got that notice and there was a thank you from thousands of veterans. last week's bill zeroed that out. i know you didn't do that on purpose to stick it in the eye of my veterans but i can't support that. but within 180 seconds of my vote, the campaign committee on the republican side sent out an attack that i don't support veterans. there's lots of reasons to tell people not to vote for me, not supporting veterans isn't one of them. we worked as partners to get that right. that's where we get the point that people's disgust, people's anger, people's frustration, we can come together. the continuous going back and forth, i don't question a single person's commitment to our veterans or love of our country. i think you're wrong on our policies, this is place to debit that, not a martial law rule

that gos to the floor with no amendments so campaign committees can send out an and k add -- attack ad veterans sit at home and say, why do i hate congress. mr. secretary, i appreciate this, i understand where the questions are going, the questions i was going to ask, you avepbsed. interagency collaboration is breaking down. that's incredibly important. .t. as it impacts electronic medical records that progress is going backwards. i don't have any questions for you. i trust that you and the thing i would say about this is, the comment that we shouldn't be talking about furloughs or whatever, the v.a. is an organization of people. furloughs are the most critical issue in that. there's a reason v.a. health care is the best in the world, it's because of the people. when those people have uncertainty, they're laid off, they're not there, it can

impact, that's why we advanced appropriated. but you know with yourself, mr. runyan asked a beautiful question, i'm in 100% agreement, budget, g a -- an i.t. there's a beautiful m.r.i. machine unplugged and can't help people. i pliment and end with the chairman and ranking member have approached this the right weasm the fix to this and the way to remove veterans and we anticipated three years ago when we did advanced appropriations, remove veterans from this fight, dent allow people to grand stan and use them as pawns and continue to work and go forward. their discussion on the advanced appropriation on the full v.a. funding is the way to go. with that, i thank you and yield back. the speaker pro tempore: thank you very much, mr. wals. if i can ask the committee's indulgence for just one second. i recognize mrs. kirkpatrick for an introduction. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i just wanted to welcome to the

committee mr. and mrs. somers in the back of the room, they're son daniel, an arizona veteran, committed suicide earlier this year. we're going to be doing a round table with them in this committee room at 1:30, so i just wanted to acknowledger that presence in committee, welcome, and invite everybody to participate in the round table at 1:30. i yield back. thank you. >> we welcome the somers to the committee room and to congress. we certainly add our condolences to you and thank you for your son's service and we are extremely sorry for your loss. with that, mr. am day, you are recognized. >> thanks, chairman. mr. speaker -- mr. secretary, going back to the cemetery thing, under the heading of triage until something changes, do your present procedures allow

on a case-by-case basis if there's private funding available to orte compensate v.a. personnel to perform burials in a timely manner? is there anything to prevent if somebody said we want to pay the expense to do this, is there anything that prohibits that from happening? >> congressman, i'm not aware that there's anything that prohibits that. but again, we try to serve all the veterans that come to us and as -- in as equitable a manner as we can or at least the appearance of equal treatment and so just let me research that come back to you. what i will tell you is we continue our burial operations. just at a rate less than we are accustomed to. last year 122,000 veterans were laid to rest. >> i appreciate that. i'm just saying if an instance

developed somewhere in the country at a cemetery where somebody says it's going to be a few weeks, and they say, we'll incur the expense, we will incur the expense to have it happen in three days from now or something leek that, it's not something tissue i guess my question that you'll get back to me on, there's nothing that prohibits an infusion of funds from nonappropriated, private source to allow somebody to do that in whatever the customary manner is in the instance? >> congressman, my guess is if it were permitted, i would be doing it now. my guess is these are funded positions and people have been put on furlough because of the law and i want to be careful here that i don't suggest that we have ways to work around it. but i will take a look at it. >> and appreciate. when you look at it, make very certain it is at no cost to the government so it's reimbursement for whatever the costs are so if

furloughed people have to be brought back at nongovernment expense, then there better be a pretty long opinion that says, no we will not allow somebody to pay our folks to interthese people in the normal course of events, whatever that expense may be. with that, i yield back. thank you, mr. sec retear. >> may i just conclude this thought, mr. chairman? i would say that the law directed furlough and it's left the cost, but it's the decision that drove us to do this. i want to be sure i'm clear on the law before i answer you. it's less how much it costs, i think there is a requirement for me here to be in compliance. >> if i may, mr. chairman, to that, i think there's also a requirement for you to look at the overall mission which is bigger than the law so when you look at those laws, i get the furlough. i just want to make sure that everything in v.a. is looked at so that those trying to be interred in a semiter reget the

full benefit of all the laws before the little situation that we're in now. >> i'm happy to do that. >> mr. secretary, i know we're still in a fluid situation, we reached out and asked, we talked about ptsd and indian health service, this says employees at the indian health service that provide direct health service to tribal citizen will largely be unaffected by the shutdown and continue to provide direct clinical health care services as well as referrals for contract services that can't be provided througher that clin exs. we're just somewhat confused as to the comment that was made in regard to post-traumatic stress which i think everybody on this committee is very concerned with and i -- and i get it, your statement that you came in with here with today paints the worst possible picture that's out there but in your statement it does not talk about the hundreds of thousands of v. ample

employees that are still working and the health care that's provided. we just want to be honest with the questions and the comments that are provided. i'm not saying you were not, i'm just saying that there was an inference earlier on that veterans with post-traumatic stress would not in fact get their treatment and we're finding that there appears to be no corner anywhere in which they will not have that treatment provided to them. mr. o'rourke, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. sec retear, thank you for the -- mr. secretary, thank you for the answers to our questions so far. i think they've been helpful. i want to add to a comment you made about the v.a. and veterans being dependent on other federal departments and agencies that may or may not be funded in a piecemeal, mini continuing resolution approach. i want to note that there are nearly 600,000 veterans who work

for the federal government. and that constitutes nearly 30% of the entire federal work forest. so these men and women who served our country, who are being furloughed or who are working without a clear idea of when they're being paid are being hurt regardless of what we're able to do when it comes to funding the v.a. and the different agencies and departments within the v.a. that's especially important to me as a representative for el paso, texas, where we have the fifth highest concentration of federal employees of any community in the country. 43,000 i represent work for the federal government and you know, if that 27% hold true, well over 10,000 of them are veterans who are being affected by this current shutdown. so i think it adds to the point that you made that we cannot afford to look at this on a piecemeal basis and when i look at the options to get out of this, i want, in the spirit of

cooperation, join my colleagues in urging the senate and our federal government to move forward on advance funding for military construction and veterans affairs. i think that's critical. in the short-term, i think our best option is what everyone refers to as a clean funding bill or clean c.r. that funds all of your services and programs and personnel at a sustainable level. the piecemeal approach that we saw last week, and i appreciate those who wanted to address the issue that way, but it had zero dollars for medical and prosthetic research, no funding for the national cemetery administration, no money for general administration, information technology, at a point where we're trying to get veterans who want to file fully developed claims to do that online because when they do that, their wait time which is now 450 days in el paso, comes down under 100 deas. if we're not funding i.t. we're

not helping them get the response they need and deserve and they've earned construction on major projects and minor projects is zeroed outs are fwrnts to state and v.a. homes and state cemeteries. that's why i support a clean funding bill, no strings attached, let's fund the entire federal government perhaps on a short-term basis where we can work out some larger teal that to me is the quickest, cleanest way to help every involves, especially our veterans. i think that's why presidents and leaders of national veterans' service organizations have come out against a piecemeal approach. they want to see us tack until comprehensively. i know that's what you're trying to do, i think that's what ultimately all of us want to do, to add to those national gifts, we reached out yesterday to our local v.s.o.'s and said i'm going to have a changs to ask questions of the secretary, i want to know what you want me to ask.

much of it you addressed. timothy says, the v.b.a. budget is just as important as the v.h.a. budget. i think we all agree and we want to see that that moves forward. david of the american g.i. forum is concerned about an issue you brought up -- what happens if the shutdown persists and we have veterans who are now in homes who are homeless, will you have the resources to take care of them? richard britton, vice chand commaer of the american legion talks about shutdown exacerbating problems veterans already have. david garcia, commander of the d.a.v. post 127 talks about resip yens of v.a. and it's benefits having a hard time after november 1 and kay davis, president of veterans of foreign wars actually came up with a solution, her solution was term limits for members of congress if we're unable to figure this problem out. but the frustration and the questions really are not with you. they are with us. and with the need to respond to

this in a way that will get the government up and running, functioning again, for all departments buzz veterans work in all of them, for all veterans services because veterans are impacted by all of them. again from my interspective, the quickest, cleanest way to do this, and we could have she government up and running tonight is to vote for a clean funding bill. so mr. speaker, again, thank you for your so thank you for answeringory questions and commenting on our statements. my time is up so i'll yield back to the chairman but thank you. >> thank you very much, mr. kauffman. you're recognized. >> thank you, mr. secretary. i also thank the men and women who work for your department, to take care of those who have made so many sacrifices in defense of our freedom. my question goes to the four hospitals that are under construction by the v.a. v.a. contingency plan states that certain, quote, major

construction and facilities management support functions won't be suspended, unquote, during this shutdown. what is the statutes -- status of the four ongoing major projects in aurora, las vegas, orlando and new orleans during the shutdown? >> congressman, i indicated that where we have work under way onsite, that work will continue. our administrative oversight responsibilities will be diminished, but we will exercise those responsibilities. payment, payments to contractors and therefore payments to the subs, an administrative process that will be slowed, but in time payment will be made. we just don't have the folks to do that as robustly as we would like. work, with of site

supervision, that will continue in those locations you described. >> mr. secretary, as you know, the payment has already been -- the process has already been very slow. according to a g.a.o. report that came out in april. in terms of these setbacks that , will they ut affect, in your view, the completion date anlt the budget totals for these projects? for these major hospitals? >> our work is slowed the longer this goes. we do -- i would be concerned that we begin to affect the end of the project, that we continue to slide project execution to the right. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> thank you very much, mr.

takano. you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i wish to associate myself with the remarks with the gentleman from texas, mr. o'rourke. i think he stated very clearly my sentiments about what needs to be done in a clean c.r. i also want to thank the chairman for the tone he set for this committee. very bipartisan sentiments. i think you, mr. chairman, understand that each of us on this committee, regardless of party, have a deep and sincere commitment to our nation's veterans. so i thank you for that, mr. chairman. let me also state that, you know, beyond the bipartisan bill that we passed on the milcon, veterans, even the budget control act of 2011 reflects that bipartisan spirit and the fact that it exempted the veterans administration from sequestration cuts. and it's my belief that -- it's micon jeckture that what has happened in the senate and the

holdup with consideration of this bill has to do with the complexities of sequestration and the divisions that are occurring between our two sides. i mean, there's a reluctance to pass all the appropriations bills until we see in total what we're dealing with in terms of whether we're going to -- how we're going to have to deal with that limit, whether we're going to lift it or some negotiations are going to happen. we need to get to negotiations on the bigger -- on the bigger picture. i cherish this committee, i cherish being on it because it is one of -- one corner of the congress that is still functional. and i want to fight fiercely to keep that spirit and i thank the chairman for the small ways in this committee that he's tried to keep that alive. and i yield back the balance of my time. i have to get back to a meeting at my office. >> thank you very much.

looks like dr. wenstrup is gone. mr. bilirakis. you're recognized. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you for your testimony, general. general, let's summarize again. i walked in just a little late on your statement. but which programs i understand because of legislation that we passed, the v.a., the health care, the outpatient clinics, the hospitals, the c-blocks are protected, is that correct? it won't be impacted. but tell me which programs will be impacted because of the -- due to the shutdown? i think our constituents have a right to know and if you can briefly summerize, i'd appreciate it very much. >> congressman, the veterans health administration, because of its special opportunity to have advanced appropriations, courtesy of the congress, is funded. and so that's hospitals, medical

centers, hospitals, vet centers, community-based outpatient clinics and every version of health care center in between. >> no exception, correct? >> no. >> no exception? they will be funded. >> the only exception where there is impact is the north chicago, where i say it is operating but it's in an accepted category. everyone else in the v.a. system is fully funded. >> thank you very much. which programs will be impacted in your opinion? and if you can give me some deadlines. i know we went through a lot of this but i'd like for you to summarize. >> all the other programs that are not advanced funded are impacted and being impacted. degree of this is the to which -- and when they are going to be impacted is a

unction of how much 2013 residual carry-over funds we have available. a vice that the congress authorizes, certain percentages that we are allowed to use as carryover to transition between budget years. every ones continues, of our departments will be impacted. we have a requirement and the benefits administration, even if we have expended the mandatory account, and therefore have no necessary implication, this is one of the clauses for exception, to keep people working. at that point there will be a , the cant requirement furlough work force, who will be working toward the end of this

month. thereafter we will have roughly in the 56 operating regional offices to ensure that we can receive, account, date stamp and control claims that will continue to be submitted. both through the normal process and through the call center. so there are people working on the clause center as well. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i yield back. thank you, general. >> mrs. negrete mcleod. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. secretary, i know that you said that the v.a. not only deals with the v.a., but other departments also. and so those veterans receiving educational benefits and stipends under the g.i. bill, and that are going to be -- that are attending school now,

because school is already started at various institutions, what will happen after november 1? you know, if they won't get their money, have you talked to the colleges, the institutions, the universities? >> congresswoman, we are doing everything we can while we have mandatory funds available, at least two categories that we will expend money to cover immediately. one is the retroactive aspects of the claim. so someone who is due money for a previous authorization, up until this point, to the best of our ability we pay those and for students currently in school, we pay those as well. but that draws down this mandatory account i'm speaking about. so before the end of this month it will be in a situation where

i can no longer pay. and the one november payments that should be going out will not be able to do that unless more mandatory funding is provided. so if there is funding in the mandatory account, which has got to come through appropriation, then i can accept people to continue to work, to draw that down. without that, by law, i have to furlough these folks. >> so what happens to students who are already in classes, that have already started the smeft or the quarter, which ever they're on? >> at this point, this is a crucial question, because for students who have already registered and had their tuition and fees paid up front, i think they're going to be ok. where -- and if they have drawn their books stipend, then i think they're probably covered.

every situation is different. but i will not be able to pay the monthly housing stipend. and that would be an issue. >> have the schools or the universities or the colleges made any kind of -- i'm sure they're aware of our shenanigans here. >> i can assure you we've reached out to schools and are doing the best we can to get their support and cooperation, to be able to carry this for a payment. but the schools are not involved in the housing stipend. that's directly from v.a. to students. so that is an issue. and i would tell that you in my past experience, the schools have been quite cooperative. there are 6,000 of them and so we want to be sure that, you know, we have contacted all of them. >> thank you so much for your testimony today. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much. ms. walorski, you're recognized

for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. good to see you again, mr. secretary. you had mentioned earlier the c-block would be delayed. we were notified more than four weeks ago there's already a delay. so my question is, it obviously has nothing to do with this government shutdown. so would your plan then be to expedite that once the furlough workers are back? and if something was delayed prior to a shutdown, that it would be expedited after a shutdown? >> we'll do our best to get back on schedule. it was going slower than we would like. but this is, you know, an exacerbated situation. our effort is to get all of these projects back online as soon as we can. >> my second question, i appreciate that. my second question is, according to the most recent monday morning report, the indianapolis egional office has 11, 460 claims pendsing, has nothing to do with the government shutdown. this is prior to the government shutdown. and these claims are taking an average of 402 days to complete.

over a year still in the state of indiana to process these claims. so my first question is, is there an urgent plan when these furloughed workers come back to deal with these hot spots in the country? number two, if this is signed by the president, are your employees coming back to work he next morning? >> i don't know about the next morning but as soon as they're notified, we expect that they'll be in promptly. >> what would be the plan be for high-impact areas like indiana, with 11,000 veterans, by no fault of their own, no fault of a government shutdown, sitting for over a year still waiting for claims to be mitigated on their behalf? >> congresswoman, again, i think you recall we have made decisions that created an increase in the inventory and increased in the backlog and we predicted three years ago that that that backlog would sort of

hit the high point this year and it did on 25 march. since that time we prioritized claims in two years. that's essentially 99% done. claims that are one year of age or older were well into the 80% of taking that down from like 300,000 down into the double digits here. i'll have to look at indianapolis. and see what the issues are. but they would be in this priorization that we've been in. anything older than 1 year we intended to have done here before the end of this year. and we're on the track to do that. and like to get back on it. >> i appreciate it. thank you, mr. chairman, i yield back the balance of my time. >> ms. titus, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you, mr. secretary, for being here. i will apologize, if some won't, for the inappropriate attempt by

people to drag you into the politics of this unfortunate situation. i'm the ranking member of the disability assistance subcommittee and i carefully monitor those monday morning reports. i guess we won't be able to get those now because of this unnecessary shutdown. and i'm optimistic about the strides you've made. we heard in that committee about the 80% of the one-year backlog, the 99% of the two-year backlogs. i think it's remarkable progress and it's just a crying shame that some of that is going to now be pushed back because of this shutdown. we've spoken a number of times about what's happening in the reno office, which serves las vegas. it also has very long waiting periods but we have addressed some of that. general hickey has been out to visit. that's kind of in process and making some progress, there's

still a long way to go. but i've been hearing some conflicting reports about the closing of the regional offices. some closed, some not. could you kind of go into some detail about how that choice is being made or what's happening in those regional offices during this shutdown? >> congresswoman, i sort of laid ,ut a timeline here that i have roughly the benefits administration. they figure 20,000 people, nearly 8,000 of them have been furloughed two days ago. the remaining 12,000, 13,000 continue to work because there are mandstory funds available in the account. and i continue to draw down on that. at the point that mandatory account is depleted, before the end of this month that will happen, at that point i have no necessary implication to

continue to have this work force present. and at that point i will -- we will be forced to furlough these individuals. the law requires it. beyond that we will keep a small work force present. my understanding is all the regional offices and the national call center will have presence in order to receive claims, date stamp claims and control that property for the veterans who have made the effort to submit them. ut it will be much reduced operation, receipt only and no processing. >> but you won't be making choices say, between the waco office and the reno office or the indianapolis office. it's going to be across the board? >> that's correct. >> and if somebody walks in, will there be someone there to receive a claim? they just won't be able to get information about the progress of their claim? is that basically how it will work? >> i will say yes.

the claims can be submitted. i will have -- by location we are in facilities that are run by the general services administration and merely walking in, i will have to find out exactly how that goes. but we are not sole occupants. many of the regional offices, many of the buildings of which are regional offices are located . that's a good point. that's something i will go check on. >> and if they called, if they called and they can't get you, they're going to call our office to find out, so can they call your office to get an update about claims, what will happen? >> our national call center will be taking calls and they're going to be up and running for just that reason. >> but not the regional offices? >> the regional offices will be much reduced. and my sense is they will be fully engaged in receiving and

date-stamping claims. they won't be running a call center out of the regional offices. >> well, thank you very much. and thank you for what you're trying to do to make the most of a bad situation. i can only imagine that the challenges you're facing are much greater than those that you have even outlined for us here today because of this unnecessary shutdown. thank you. i yield back. >> mr. flores. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you, mr. shinseki, for being here today. thank you for your service to our country and to our nation's veterans. what to -- i want to start by giving a shoutout to the waco regional office. i visited with them the last two years and they were making remarkable progress on taking care of their disability backlog and the director and the team have done an outstanding job. i, just like you, am very concerned about the impact in this shutdown could have on their operations and what could potentially happen to our

veterans. so i have a couple of questions in that regard. the first one is, why is the g.i. bill hotline closed when other v.b.a. hotlines remain open? why is the g.i. bill hotline closed when other v.b.a. hotlines remain open? that one hotline i know remains open is our crisis, veterans crisis hotline. that is funded by the health administration. >> ok. i'm talking about the call center in muss keegy -- muss cogey. it's apparently closed. >> i'll go and if you permit, try to provide you a better answer. >> that will be fine. you can follow up. the next question is fairly simple but it's going take a little bit of time to give you the background so we can build

up to it. it goes back a few months, starting with the newer information that says that the white house had some involvement in the i.r.s. targeting of certain groups. and then it -- it builds from there by saying that the park service has said that they've been told to make it as tough on americans as possible during this shutdown period. so, again, that doesn't have anything to do with you or me right now. but back on september 19, this committee held a hearing and it had assistant secretary general moony and i asked her a question about whether or not the offices of congressional lelingtive affairs had ever been -- eth legislative affairs had ever been influenced by the white house in terms to its responses by congress. she replied at that time that they had not. but then she sent me a follow-up letter a few days later and she said that sometimes that the white house does intervene on

correspondents between the v.a. and congress. so again, this is still setting up the background for this information. and then if you go through the time line of activities that we've seen recently, there was a field guide that was issued on friday, september 27. the v.a. stated that disability claims processing would not be affected. then on september 28, the v.a. notified the house veterans' affairs committee that they would not be able to send the november benefit checks because funding would run out in late october. you've confirmed that today. so there's nothing new there. but then on september 30, president obama had an interview and he stated that veterans, and i quote, veterans will find their support centers unstaffed, which was a direct contradiction of the field guide that said that the vet centers would not be affected from a couple of days earlier. and then in that same interview the president also intimated that the shuthdown would affect somebody in a v.a. office who is counseling one of our vets who has ptsz -- ptsd.

on october 1 the field guide was a nded to add that there was caveat. then yesterday i get the news that the waco regional office had to lay off 1/3 of -- or furlough 1/3 of its staff. so, again, this goes back to my question, which is fairly simple, and that is, did someone at the white house or the office of management and budget, or the treasury, or any other federal agency, or any other federal employee ask you or anyone else in the veterans administration to modify the timetable under which the v.a. was going to begin its operational linedown, if you will, to deal with the lapse in appropriations? >> fair enough. i think if your perspective is that there is the ability to reach in and understand and influence how we operate, i would say it's just the

opposite. look, we are faced with an unusual event. a shutdown of government doesn't occur frequently and we have no good plangs in place. we had to go -- plans in place. we had to go back to look at 1996 to have some idea what have the requirements were going to be. at the same time we have a 13 closeout and, you know, on the fifth of september, whenever mrs. moony testified, if someone had said, we're going to shut the government down, i will guarantee you between the fifth of september and the 30th of september, there would have been actions that i would have perhaps taken differently. that didn't become obvious to us until the last week. maybe wednesday of the last week of september. and then we had to do these assessments. if your complaint is that we -- >> let me rereclaim my time. i'm not complaining. i was asking a simple question.

whether or not the white house had any influence over the timetable for the v.a. shutdown process. i think you've answered it no. >> no. the answer is no. >> i'm glad to hear that answer. you and i both agree that -- let me rephrase. that i think most of us in here agree that the house has done its work by passing two appropriations bills that would deal with this issue. one is the milcon-v.a. bill which would focus on the v.a. we wouldn't be sitting here having this discussion today. also we passed h.j.res. 72 last week which would fund the v.a. so that we wouldn't have this conversation. both those bills passed on a bipartisan basis. i would urge those folks that are listening to this hearing to be sure to influence the senate to take up on those two bills. thank you, mr. chairman, i yield back. >> thank you very much. r. brown -- mrs. broub, you're recognized for two minutes -- ms. brown, you're recognized for two minutes. >> thank you. i keep hearing the senate, the senate.

i put the responsibility straight here with the house. we could pass a clean c.r. and you would not be sitting there. and i have done, my entire career, all i could do that veterans would not be caught up with the house and the senate and i don't blame the senate, i thank god for the senate. the bad politics of this house. and at some point, you know, let's don't confuse nobody with facts. now, we're talking about november 1. i want to talk about october 17. the full faithss and credit -- if we default, what will happen to all of the mothers and the spouses and the tricare and the checks that go out period for the v.a.? period. tell us what's going to happen when these people in the house let us default on our credit? what happens to the v.a.?

and the people that's been talking to me aren't federal employees. they're contractors. and the contractors are not going to get any back-pay. and they're being laid off in droves because the government is not effective and the house is responsible. they could pass a clean c.r. for the first time ever in the history. i voted against a v.a. bill because it was $6 billion less than what we passed out of here. so now, please respond. >> well, congresswoman, i would just repeat what the president's pointed out. what he looks to the congress to do is two things. one, provide a budget so we can operate as a government. and, two, pay the bills that have already been incurred. and both of those issues are at play here. i'm looking for a budget and so

is the rest of the government. so we can do what we're charged to do. and then paying the bills, the issue of the debt ceiling and those are authorizations that have already occurred. >> what happens on the 17th if we default? what happens to the v.a.? the veterans asked me, will they get their checks? >> congresswoman, i am planning to operate as long as i can this month. but at a certain point here, in days, i'll begin to furlough people. and that will have to do with my inability to continue to operate so the carryover and whatever occurs with the discussions of the debt ceiling, i imagine it will be even worse. but beginning here in days to weeks, before the end of this month, for the most part, v.a.

will be reduced in operations. my office will be 90% shutdown. my office. legislative affairs, with whom you deal freen frequently, will be un-- deal frequently, will be down to one person. public affairs down to one person. and then for the rest of our operation, other than receiving claims and looking after families that are expecting us to provide the appropriate burial services, all of that will be reduced. >> so, i just want to be clear. an nt you to know this is attempt to impose disaster on the veterans and on the country. there is no need, as we sit here . the senate and the president had agreed to the poor levels of the house. they've agreed to it. clean c.r. and we could move forward.

but yet we have people that want to blame the senate. want to blame the president. at 20 mibs to 12:00 we want to conference. it was over. the house is inept. and i've been in here for 22 years and i have never seen anything like the people that serve in this house that want to act like they care about the veterans. they talk the talk. but they don't want the -- walk the walk. they're out at the cemetery or memorial saying, we don't know why it's shut down. well, you voted to shut it down a few hours earlier. this is a sad state of affairs. this committee used to be bipartisan. and now you got a few members that's dragging the house of

representatives down. the people's house. i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you. the gentlelady's time has completely expired. and for the members of this committee and those that may be listening today, the continuing resolution that the house actually put on the floor, that has been berated by a couple of members, saying that it was less than folks wanted by $6 billion, was exactly the same piece of legislation that senator sanders filed monday night. so folks that are out there saying we shouldn't do this by piece meal, senator sanders, along with ms. hirono, and others, mr. bloomen that will, which incidently held a news conference at the very same time we've been having this hearing

with the secretary, to say that we should not be using him as a punching bag, mr. secretary, i trust that we have not used you as a punching bal bag today. we are trying to get the information out to the veterans and again you have talked in depth about those things that we will not be able to do. but my question, how many employees within v.a. will still be on the job after november 1 f this shutdown continues? >> again, mr. chairman, let me take that one for the record, to give you the specificity that you're looking for. as i say, there are still factors coming together to tell me how long i operate. i've told you that the mandatory funds are expected to be depleted before the end of this month. affecting both the 1 novaceks

and affecting -- novaceks -- november checks and affecting the v.b.a. in large number. their present work force of about 13,000 people will be severely reduced. will be down to about 1,100. and roughly 1,000 people in v.b.a. so we will have people functioning in v.b.a. and n.c.a. will likewise have to furlough a significant portion of their work force and will go to modified operations. v.h.a. is fully funded and so when you look at the account, it will look very large but that's because v.h.a. is about 830% of our work force and our budget. >> mr. chairman. >> but i do think it's important to remember that, you know, your total employees are about 335,000. and so when we talk about numbers of 10,000, 4,000, those are big numbers.

but as it relates to the overall number of 335,000, i would appreciate, and you've already said that would you take it for the record, i would appreciate you getting that information to us. >> mr. chairman. i have just a quick question. >> the chair does not recognize the gentlelady from florida. her time has expired. >> i have a question for mr. chairman on the question. you asked about the number of employees. my question is, how many people that receive checks will not be getting those checks? i think that's the bigger question. >> again, the gentlelady is not recognized for her question. and i appreciate what she's asking. -- we knew that the possibility of this sometime ago. i don't believe anybody in this room wanted to be where we are today. do you believe the same thing,

mr. secretary? >> from my background, i would say you look at all the options, this was not one i believed would happen. i just didn't think the august members of this committee or the congress would allow this to happen. so i had plans and we have quickly dusted them off and within 72 hours gone into emergency procedures to continue to take care of veterans as long as we could and then ensure the orderly shutdown of our activities, so we're taking care of our people as well. so, mr. chairman, if you knew a shutdown was going to happen, it wasn't shared with me. yes, you always look at the possibilities. i didn't think -- i just didn't think you would allow this to happen. >> and i think most members of this keystone x.l. would say

that -- of this committee would say we do not want to be here. this was not an intended consequence. but we are here. and we've asked to you come in and talk to us and my question i guess is, at what point did you start doing extraordinary measures to prepare for this? and begin to scale back some expenditures so that you would not be perceived as making foolish expenditures of funds that may be necessary and you probably can gagget where are i'm going with this question -- gather where i'm going with this question. >> i don't gather where you're going. >> how did we end up with the $500,000 worth of art in kansas? why have we been spending over $1 million in the washington, .c., area on p.r. ads? again, i think those that are being furloughed want these questions asked. it's not a political question.

it's the question as to prioritization because we're talking about people not getting the benefits that they've earned, not being able to be buried in a timely fashion, yet we can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on things that probably the general public would think were inconsequential to taking care of our veterans. >> you raised artwork. and i think the suggestion that this was a year-end spending, that's not the case. there were three facilities that have been in the process of eing constructed and -- or major refurbishment. in the case of the miami facility, it's an 843,000-square-foot facility, 11 floors. major renovations in this facility hadn't been done since

1980's. and that project is completed and part of the project was to the replace wall hangings, photographs, prints. that add to that environment that says it's a healing environment and welcoming to veterans. west los angeles, a 16,000-square-foot facility in which homeless and mental health clinics have been provided and then the jacksonville community-based outpatient clinic, new construction project. 102,000-square-feet and it needed to be outfitted. all total, about 1,400, a little over 1,400 wall hangings, photographs, prints, pictures of veterans, pictures of local scenery that veterans in that area would recognize. i think artwork is probably an appropriate description here. i think the average cost is

der $400, all expenses included. those were part of the project, they were funded and part of the execution. you know, if there was a way to have anticipated the shutdown and redirected some of those moneys, i probably would have done it. but again, i say that it's not until the last week in september that it was clear what was going to happen would happen. and we went into the emergency procedures. >> and i apologize for not recognizing mr. mcnerney for your question. thank you for your indulgence and you're recognized. >> i want to thank you, mr. chairman miller, and also ranking member michaud, for inviting me to the committee hearing. and the members of the committee for not objecting. it's good to be back here. it's a great committee. this is a terrible hearing,

though, to make that happen. so i do want to say the situation is dire. on november 1 we're going to cut off hundreds of thousands of disability recipients, students that are depending on g.i. bills, families whose veterans are active service members who have died. i think the american public needs to know the dire situation . we're going to be sending hundreds of thousands of people into dire straits. maybe making them homeless. and there's no excuse. we need to solve this problem and we need to solve it in the next week. so, do i have some specific questions. mr. secretary, in addition to mr. denham, my colleague and neighbor, i'd like to know from you about the impact of the shutdown on the fringe camp project. i'd like to know specifically its priority. and i will take that offline. now, as you know, the veterans

service organizations' staff members, the v.s.o. staff members use the v.a. regional offices to help counsel veterans. but the v.s.o. staff members are not employees of the v.a.. could the v.a. allow them to continue to use the facilities? i understand a lot of them are shutout from the facilities. could they continue to use those to ailt -- facilities to help counsel our veterans? >> i'm told that we're not allowed to do that. but again this is a day-to-day assessment. we go back to check that the interpretation of the law is clear. but these will some -- these are some pretty well-defined rules that we operate under. the antideficiency act has .rovisions for two categories

one is protection of life and property and the other one is necessary implication. >> are there any other functions that the v.s.o.'s normally perform that they're not able to perform now? >> we'll look for every opportunity to help them be successful. and their mission, it's part of our mission as well. but frankly, we are trying to process as many claims as we can before the mandatory account is depleted. and then thereafter we're into receiving and date stamping claims. >> you said i believe that the v.a. processing claims are continuing. are there decisions being made about cheese claims? if so, are the veterans being notified about those decisions? or is that on hold? >> in those circumstances where we are able to pay, and i've

described retroactive aspects of this, we won't be able to pay continuing monthly benefits. but for those veterans who have a date stamp that goes back some time, when that is awarded, we try to pay the retroactive portion of that. the monthly cycle picks up in november. >> so they'll be notified if the decisions is made, even if they're not able to get the check? >> they'll be notified if we are able to pay the retroactive aspect of that and then we will process the remainder of the in the line. that for students who are currently in school, i think i answered that question earlier that says that as long as we have mandatory funds remaining, we will honor as many of those requests as we can. but those all draw the mandatory account down and it will be

depleted and then i will -- we will look to furlough the work force that has been doing that. >> the prescription drug benefits being impacted? veterans' prescription drug benefits? >> say that again. >> are the veterans' prescription drug benefits being impacted by this shutdown? >> prescriptions? veterans health administration is fully funded so medications are available and will be filled. >> thank you, mr. chairman. for allowing me to participate today. >> thank you very much. mr. bilirakis, you have any other questions? mr. coffman? >> thank you, mr. chairman. just one more question. mr. secretary, my oversight investigations subcommittee uncovered that the v.a. cybersecurity protection measures were inadequate. even when the v.a. has been fully funded before the shutdown. in fact, the investigation

discovered numerous occurrences when foreign state-sponsored hackers infiltrated the v.a. network. how has this shutdown affected the private information of veterans and their families? are these 20 million individuals in the v.a. system now at even greater risk? >> congressman, i will tell you that -- of what we know. we have -- we will have the ability to respond to what we know. to as you would expect, more this than sometimes even we're able to know. so, we do take steps to ensure the security of our system. every event better prepares us for the next and we are active here. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back.

>> thank you. mr. michaud, you're recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. just a quick follow-up question, mr. secretary. you mentioned about the delays and the overtime you already had in the original budget you presented to congress. as well as anticipating i think it was $40 million to carryover for next year's budget. since you've utilized that $40 million, can't carry it over, and since delays have caused the backlog to creep back up again, will you be requesting an additional supplemental to deal with replacing that $40 million as well as more overtime money to get you back where you have to be? >> i think the basic question is, am i going to try to re constitute that $40 million. i will find every way i can and , andam not able to do that i need to look for support here to get that funding in place to

be able to get veterans the care they need, i will seek it. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. mr. huelskamp. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i do want to take a note, a little bit of time. i'd like to apologize to anybody in this committee that might have been offended by my trying to find out exactly why the u.s. senate has not voted on these appropriations. i do appreciate the bipartisan nature of this committee. but i think we all agree here that our veterans should not be used as pawns in this particular debate and appreciate the work in terms of the secretary. but the language that i've seen, in particular, the reference to the individual in the senate that i was questioning about, has used some language that i don'tny anybody this this committee has used. hasn't called anybody an arcist or insane. that does no service to our

veterans. i apologize if anybody took offense. trying to find out why we have not seen a vote in that. i would appreciate the secretary continuing to try to work with the senate, to encourage them to bring that to a vote. i'm pretty confident based on what we hear here that that could go right to the senate and keep the doors open, or to the president and keep those doors open. i yield back. >> thank you very much, mr. huelskamp. we've asked the other members if they have any -- mr. reese, do you have a question? orry, mr. secretary. mr. ruiz, you're recognized. mr. ruiz: thank you very much, mr. chairman. secretary shin secretaryy, thank you for your service to our country. the government shutdown has caused a crises that could have been avoided had congress simply worked together to put people ahead of politics and solutions ahead of ideology. it is unconscionable that

congress continues to put political gamesmanship above the needs of our veterans. the best way to help veterans in my district and across the country is to end this reckless shutdown. now that the v.a.'s required to furlough thousands of employees, how will that affect the veterans claims backlog and constituents, specifically in my district, meaning how will furloughs impact the l.a. regional office, and the san diego regional office, which reviews claims for veterans in my district? >> congressman, as i indicated are -- our availability of carryover funding for 2013, roughly $40 million, we exhausted that on 7 october, and therein then had to furlough about 7,800 people.

we have about 13,000 regional benefits employees who are doing what they always do and that's, you know, process claims as quickly and as accurately as they can. with the end of mandatory overtime, we are doing that at 1,400 claims each day less than we were doing, you know, before 30 september. so there's a cumulative effect here. these employees will continue to work until such time as something we call the mandatory account that currently has some residual funds in, they will continue to process claims until that point. and where we can pay for retroactive, a retroactive claim or for a student claim, we will continue to do that. but as we do that, we draw down the mandatory account. one of the mandatory account -- when the mandatory account is exhausted, before the end of

this month, and the vast majority of these people will also be furloughed. and r and that will begin to have a great impact on the backlog. today the backlog is already 2,000 higher than it was on 30 september. so it's already beginning to have an effect. >> i want you to know that i will continue to advocate for a pragmatic solution so that we can open our doors specifically for our veterans. my office in the district has not shut down. we have extended hours and we're even working weekends if a veteran needs it, to come and pick up that mantle, because the mantle that has been dropped by this ridiculous shutdown, and we will be there for our veterans and i look forward to collaborating with you so that once we open our doors, those veterans that have been ill

affected by this will have expedited prioritized treatment so we can continue to serve the veterans to the best of our abilities. so i appreciate your service to our country and thank you very much. >> thank you. that's my intent as well. >> thank you. i yield back my time. >> thank you, mr. ruiz. i'd like to recognize for a final question ms. brown. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and, mr. chairman, i would like , the i ask my question full service organizations sent a letter to congress not v.a. ting the piecemeal bill on the floor. and so is it possible that i could submit that to the record? >> without objection. >> thank you. now, because, you know, to talk about what a senator introduced, i don't want to talk about the senate. i want to talk about the house. the house of representatives, where i serve, and, mr. secretary, my question to you is

come november or the third week in october, will 3.8 million veterans not get their checks in the mail? benefits, that's a nice thing. but collects is what they live on. most veterans that get those checks are on fixed income. explain to me how they're supposed to make it. >> congresswoman, effective 1 november, if we don't resolve this, those veterans will not receive pension compensation, for veterans who are in school, heir education checks, vocational rehab, and those beneficiaries are not just veterans. that's three million veterans. but when you add surviving spouses and children, you know, it's over five million

individuals who will be involved. i mean, this is serious. and i'm hoping that the leadership of this committee will help us resolve it. >> thank you, mr. secretary. you know, i was told that the house, somebody said there's some snake oil. so i went home and tried to find snake oil. i think it's just in texas. so i did look for some -- [inaudible] oil and i did bring some back. but this is not a joke. this is very serious. veterans have come up to me in church sunday because that's the only place i went sunday. two services and i needed more. and they wanted to know about their benefits. and i told them, as of october 17, if we default, they will not get their benefits. and i told the social security people the same thing. is this true? will they not get their benefits? is this a game? >> it's not a game,

congresswoman. there are veterans and service members, families, children counting on us. and they expect us to deliver. >> well. >> five million of them will be impacted here. severely. >> i hope that there is some leadership on this committee that will work with the leadership in the house and come up with a clean continuing resolution because the problem that we have is that so many of the people that's been furloughed, they're contract people. they will not get back-pay. and many of them are veterans. do you all have contractor employees also? >> we do. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> i thank the gentlelady. thank you, mr. secretary, for being here again on short notice and for over 2 1/2 hours.

we appreciate you taking the questions. we do have other questions that we'll submit to you for the record and in particular i want to ask that you help this committee in furthering a bill that was passed out of this committee in a 100% bipartisan fashion, that is advanced funding for the remainder of v.a.'s budget so that we don't get into this type of situation anymore. all mens -- members will have five legislative days with which to revise and extend their remarks. mr. secretary, thank you. this hearing adjourned. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013]

inaudible] inaudible]

>> the president had us all down to the white house last week. only to remind me that he was not going to negotiate over keeping the government open or over the looming need to increase the debt limit. >> democrats agree. we're willing to negotiate. we won't negotiate with a gun to our head. we say to our republican colleagues, end this

irresponsible government shutdown. >> we're not going to negotiate under the threat of further harm to our economy and middle class families. we're not going to negotiate under the threat of a prolonged shutdown, until republicans get 100% of what they want. >> stay with c-span for coverage of the government shutdown and your input into the conversation. >> i am disgusted that obama cannot compromise. he refuses to negotiate. >> my view of the shutdown is that the republicans are playing stupid games and that if everybody played these games in the long-term, the entire government would shut down. so it looks a little bit less than something resembling treeson. >> join the conversation on our continuing coverage of the groff shutdown on c-span -- of the government shutdown on c-span. c-span, we bring public affairs events from washington directly to you. putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings and conferences. and offering complete

gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house. all as a public service of private industry. we're c-span. created by the cable tv industry 34 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. and now you can watch us in h.d. >> let us pray. to whom infliction we call. forgive us for continuing to so to the wind even when hearing the sounds of the approaching world when dutch world when -- whirlwind. shutederal