mails and tweets, next on "washington journal." ♪ weeks into theo government shutdown with a where sunday session ahead in the u.s. senate, a deal on the continuing resolution and the impending debt ceiling remains elusive in the nation's capital. welcome to "washington journal." we will spend the first 45 minutes talking about the latest developments on capitol hill, the latest debate on the cr and impending raising of the debt limit. here is how to join the conversation, if you are a 881, foran, 202-585-3

3880, and for2-585- 3882.endents, 202-585- our twitter handle is @cspanwj. you can drop us an e-mail at journal@c-span.org. here is how the story is playing out. we mentioned a sunday session in the senate today and the front page of the website of politico.com. writing about yesterday's action this isrichmond times," courtesy of the museum --

we are joined on the phone by kaitlin burns, who covers capitol hill for real clear politics.com. thank you for being with us. icaller: thank you for having me. int: the senate is coming for a sunday session, why is that necessary?

we are getting closer to the october 17 deadline to raise the debt ceiling. things really fell apart over the weekend with the house negotiations. the house was fairly optimistic heading into the weekend, congressional meeting that congressional leaders having met with the president. -- congressional leaders having met with the president. the white house was not supportive of what republicans wanted to do on the debt ceiling and house republicans had trouble getting their caucus together. the goal has shifted over to the senate. host: how does this play with members of the house, particularly the leadership in the republican party and the more conservative wing -- they are being left out of the

discussion here. that divide has been a part of the narrative between the troubles between the white house and the house. there are a lot of conservatives have ahouse who wants to discussion and the fight on the health-care law. i thought by this point they would get into some of their demands. that has not occurred. meanwhile congressional house republican leaders want to get something done. they do not want to default and they are cautioning their members against that crisis. now it is on the senate shoulders. even if the senate does come up with a plan it is a big question whether's -- whether john boehner would bring that bill up to the floor.

we saw a similar kind of situation with the fiscal cliff deal that was made in the senate and went to the house and john boehner brought it up with help of democrats. continue to cover the story, whatsoever things are you looking for, who in particular will you be following? it will be interesting to look at how harry reid and mitch mcconnell, the two senate leaders for the democratic and republican party work together. also who they bring into these meetings. chuck schumer are close allies of their respective leaders. it will be interesting to see if they can work together on something like this. we saw a plan introduced by susan collins over the weekend. we will see if she participates as well. eye on thep an minority leaders. you can read her report

and follow her on twitter, thank you for the update. onto your calls on the impact on capitol hill. georgia, democrats line, go ahead. i remember back when harry reid, nancy pelosi, and chuck schumer would -- this hatred for our troops has gone on for a long time. a -- hussein did that's all i can say. -- gary isis about up on the independent line next. caller: i have a question to the american citizens. under the bill of rights he have life liberty and property.

i would suggest every american looks at the word "liberty here go the speaker of the house is acting like a tater. the tea party that is backing him is -- they must be removed. nobody is above the constitution. no politician, nobody. they need to remove him under onstitution -- they need to be removed for not upholding the constitution they took an oath to. republican line, miami, what are your thoughts here as we are nearly two weeks and this shutdown. -- two weeks into this shutdown? hold and to put you on go to tennessee. it is might on the democrats line. -- it is might on the democrats line. on the democrats

line. caller: i just wanted to call and say i have never been more proud to be a democrat. republicans are trying to run this country into the ground. they want less government, they got it now. they're calling for this country to be a mess. host: thank you for your call. again, you can call at -- here's the front page of the "pittsburgh post-gazette." ' reuben in miami, go ahead.

go ahead. i work in florida. i lost my job that i do not have money. [indiscernible] i think it is obama's fault. go to princeton,

indiana, tim is on the independent line. my comment is that if the republicans do not get together and get this going, i am going to do everything in my power to make sure they get thrown out of office. reminder, when you call please mute your television. here is a tweet from jodi that says -- raymond is on the democrats line from texas. caller: good morning. it is so sad that a lot of americans don't really know how -- they do not know how their own government functions.

they don't know what a lobbyist really is. 80% of what goes on, it is because there governor is at fault. it is not so much the president. they need to protest against there governor and their senator in their own state. people forget -- nobody wanted to vote for a voucher. nobody wanted to run around for a voucher -- run around with a voucher looking for insurance. there is a lot corruption, all these lobbyists the runaround, the gop and the republican party, that is why they cannot get it together.

they understand that half of their party is so corrupt. that is what got us here. host: the implementation of the health-care law was certainly a big part of the early discussions. here's the story, a front-page headline saying that from the start signs of trouble at health portal --

i want to point out an issue that came up yesterday. the associated press is reporting on this issue with computer problems. here's the story. they say recipients should be able to use their credit cards in grocery stores today now that xerox corporation has restored a system that affected people across 17 states. they found themselves

temporarily unable to use their food stamp cards on saturday. xerox said late in the evening that access was restored for all users -- we are talking about the impasse in capitol hill with the senate set to come into session at 1:00. that was blocked by a vote of 5346. ahead of that debate yesterday, president obama called on

congress to come to an agreement over the continuing resolution and the debt ceiling. here's what he had to say. [video clip] >> the truth is there is a lot we can agree on. one thing we have to agree on is there is no good reason anyone should keep suffering through this shutdown. i met with some really innovative small business owners on friday who have artie lost contracts, lost customers, and put hiring on hold because of the pain of this republican shutdown. citizensting the very our government promised to serve. wise to just kick the debt ceiling can down the road. damage to america's sterling credit rating would not only cause the markets to go haywire

-- students pay for college, newlyweds buying a home, it would amount to a new tax, a republican default tax. it does not have to be this way. crises is not how our democracy works and we have to stop the. throughnce those ideas elections and legislation, not extortion. on the financial implications on the debt ceiling, the story from the bbc this morning, i head of the international monetary fund. the president of the world bank --

marcia, republican line. says across the board all food stamps are going to be cut as of november 1. i am a 78-year-old woman who lives alone. i try to do the best i can with my own money and my social security check. going to go from $178 per month to $167 per month as of november 1. host: did the state say this is due to -- caller: due to ara law.

i know that thanksgiving is coming. it for a whole month of $167? all my life i was a young democrat. the first time i did vote for mr. obama, i saw what kind of president he was. i changed to a republican. yesterday i listened for hours on the tv. sending money to syria, jobs to egypt, why? all they want to do is fight against us. i just do not understand his ideas at all. i cannot believe what is going on. host: this is a monthly amount.

what is that set to take place? caller: november 1. host: carol is on our republican line. caller: good morning. i am probably not going to stay a republican a whole lot longer. i have been so embarrassed to be a republican. we had a congressman, and she is whenl tea party lady -- the shutdown first happened she claimed she could not do without her paycheck. she is wealthy, married to a doctor, this is renee ellmers. she has since decided that she can do without her paycheck. peoplee these congress

doing? what about all of the people in that are doing without a paycheck? you have not seen congress give up their paychecks. i don't think the news is emphasizing this enough, there is some little child that i cannot get treatment from the national institute of health and is going to die because our government is shut down. i am sick of the tea party. they are not able to negotiate with people. it is embarrassing. my family was originally from canada. i have never seen anything like this. on the worldssing markets, it makes us look like

our style of government does not work. conservatives,e they are more worried about abortions and all sorts of ridiculous stuff -- all sorts of ridiculous stuff. between from joe were mirrors -- -- a tweet from joe ramirez -- iron patriot says --

just an update on the fellow that came to washington to cut the grass, the man from south carolina --

on saturday afternoon, -- "we are here to support you. oh his direct message slipped across the country after he was spotted outside of the lincoln memorial, mowing the grass. the building behind me serves as a moral compass not only for our country but for the world, he told reporters that they. let's go next to collide in indiana. go ahead. to collide in -- to clyd

e in indiana. go ahead. caller: lies it every time i watch c-span the republican party acts like little children? let's go to charles in oakland, california on the independent line. this -- i concern is am not a democrat or republican. i would hate to use a racial terminology, but it seems to me that we can solve this problem because this country is made up of various denominations and nationalities. why can't resolve the problem by changing the name of the white house to the people's house? it should be the people's house,

not the white house. that has to do why a black man is in the white house, not being accepted by the republican side. you never see any black face among them. i hate to see a prejudice thing. can we all just get along? i wish we could do just that. host: what about african- americans from -- such as from south carolina. caller: tokens. they have their minorities. they don't have a rainbow coalition of people. it is just plenty of what it is.

it is a prejudice organization that is trying to take over. never before has one man divided this country in the history of united states since obama has gotten the white house. i would like to be corrected soon be shown that is not the case. the senate is returning today at 1 p.m. eastern. a rare sunday session for the senate. the piece in the new york times this morning, the senate takes the lead as house republicans talk of -- as house republicans talk --

next up is harbour beach, michigan. we go to ron on i republican line. caller: good morning. i am a retired veteran. i am ashamed, self a republican anymore. my one son has spent eight years and 22 wars in afghanistan. we shut down the government, thank you. i haven't seen them in two years. my youngest was the only survivor on the last explosion.

he has to live near the ann arbor hospital. i am tired of baby steps school ground things that go -- that happen all the time about shutting down our government. i hope people are understanding that things are going to close. if you have money in the bank it is going to be gone. there are a lot of things that that peopler radar cannot see what is going on. in today's, what is going to happen? we default on our budget. what is going to happen to our country? -- thehe fiscal dip fiscal cliff deadline is thursday. arizona, republicans line. caller: i am a registered democrat.

i have heard so many awesome things from your other colors. i feel for -- other collars. i feel for the lady that has $178 per month in food stamps. i feel her pain. get $116 per month. i became disabled five years ago. thank you mr. brainerd. i agree with the person who called from california. mr. brainerd does not see black- and-white, i think he only sees white. has the state of arizona said that your $16 benefit is being reduced in any way? caller: they haven't. i get the lowest amount as it is.

they told me if i had children they could give me more. i am in an age where i cannot have children. i am sick enough that the last thing i need is a child -- need it is a -- the last thing i need is a child. as far as i'm concerned, the republicans and tea parties are terrorists in suits and --in suits. host: another impact of the shutdown, fox news.com writing about --

we will spend some time looking at the impact of the shutdown on particular states, including new mexico. john is in maryland on the independent line. good morning. i am an independent.

i wanted to call and share a view. both sides of the aisle have not offered any solution to our economic problems. it is terrible what is going on. it is a crazy game. the fact of the matter is we have unemployment much higher than reported, we have a debt interestut of control, rates can no longer perform the function they need for the economy. withollar is devaluing this default. what upsets me is we do not have any leadership on both sides. we are seeing a little political play going on in washington.

we need some kind of plan that gets us out of the predicaments of that and the mess we are in. in your eyes no one has stepped up to handle this? we have the federal reserve just printing money to keep interest rates low, to handle our debt. part of that is supported by the is theat the dollar world's currency. we are losing all of our avenues . where is there any kind of plan to reduce our spending?

we have a trend where we are -- most to see someone large corporations do not want to invest here. there is a slow improvement in employment there is -- but they are low income jobs. obamacare, i would like to have the insurance benefit of that in the long-term. it should not be used as extortion. we do not have any x -- we do not have any strategic planning. all of the population is just confused. if you look at our circumstance economically. we are in deep. if this default goes forward next week it is going to be ugly. with the trends that are happening right now and our inability to do anything about it it is going to happen

eventually regardless. we have 10 more minutes of your calls. the senate is set to come in the this afternoon. it will be on c-span two. has postedhistorian on their website the previous sunday sessions for the u.s. senate, going back to the most recent one last year. limit thet the debt date on 2011, it seems to be an annual thing. going back all the way to 1995 and the shutdown in 1995 and 1996. emanuel is on the republican line, go ahead. caller: i am a republican. what is happening [indiscernible]

look at where we are coming from. when clinton was in we had a surplus. bush came in and put too much on the credit card. obama came in and does not have anything to do, only try to put the economy back in track. the republican party is trying to go about this wrong. [indiscernible] being paid 106 $27 per month, 100 and -- $167 per month or $16 per month -- i want to know what is happening to my party. they're leaving the country no good. i want to go back to work.

host: here's kenneth on the democrats line. i have three verses from the bible that come from isaiah chapter one verse 21 through 23. the president warned in his state of union speech about citizens united. he told them this was going to happen. reallyreme court is responsible for this. i just came from the supreme court and the federal judge ruled in my case. let me read these verses. "how is the faithful city becoming hardened? it was full of judgment. but now murderers. water, withxed with slack -- mixed with water -- host: tie this into the

conversation. caller: the people that were elected through citizens united, their purpose is truly to wreck nina goesnment until ahead and act like the leader he should act as. it is all going to fall on his head and this country is going to go down the tube. we need to act and act now. host: ohio, scott is on the independent line. a folk from california -- someone from california called in and spoke with a lot of common sense. why all this talk about raising the debt ceiling? i don't have the luxury of reason mike debt ceiling so we have to cut back on our spending. why no talk about cutting back on spending he e we have a president who said it was immoral on principle to raise

the debt ceiling. that is after $6 trillion of added debt. that is all he talks about. i just do not understand why no cutting back on spending. pages one to continue to spend. like the gentleman from california said, we are heading to a major test the something is not done. front page of "cq weekly" talks about the debt deadline -- just to read you a little bit of that article in this week's "cq weekly" --

anthony is on the republican line. i am wondering if mandatory spending is the same as the law that was passed in years ago which any federal agency that provides funds has to spend their entire funds for the year to receive the 10% the following year.

is that what the republicans in congress are trying to cut back on so this debt is not floated out of the water, which i feel that is the case. why isn't it talked about? i think that is one of the main problems. doing is try to cut back on a 10% increase every year. host: west virginia, this is mary on the democrats line. i will be 68 in another month. i have worked all my life to pay taxes. i have disability.

what i heard in the first few days of the that -- of the shutdown is they took so much of medicare to start this obamacare. everybody who fought for this country, we should not have to suffer because the rich people want to get richer. host: one more call from marysville tennessee. on our independent line. you do to your set and go ahead with your comment. that's you mute your set and go ahead with your comment. my nephew did not have anywhere to go. part time got a job at walmart after all that education. he cannot get a job. we do not have the insurance. how old is he e -- is he he e -- how old is he?

caller: he is 23. he could not get a job until december. he got on at walmart, 32 hours per week. that -- they do not know if obamacare is going to hurt their insurance. he's got food stamps and they will probably cut him out. surely talks about the implementation of the health- care law, still in issue in terms of how it is being rolled out. here's the front page of "the chicago tribune" --

thank you for all of your calls. up next we're going to hear from to former congressman. we're going to hear from martin frost and tom davis, talk about bipartisanship and their take on the fiscal brinkmanship here in washington. later on, how the government shutdown is impacting your state with calls and updates from reporters across the country.

up next here on washington journal, a look at the sunday shows with c-span radio. tv talk shows, the focus remains on the government shutdown and approaching debt limit. at noon, nbc's meet the press, david gregory will be talking about senate the authority what -- with senate majority whip his dick durbin. at 1 p.m., abc's this week with host george stephanopoulos and guest senate budget committee member lindsey graham, a republican from south carolina. minnesota democratic congressman keith ellison. at 2:00 on fox news sunday, chris wallace will be talking about -- will be talking with west virginia democratic senator joe mentioned. ofjoe manchin and bob corker

tennessee. at three we bring you "state of the union," with guests including kentucky republican senator rand paul. and newt gingrich, former speaker of the house. at four clock, bob schieffer, the host of "faced the nation closed quote will be talking with republican senator kelly ayotte. "faith at the nation -- "face the nation" will be talking with republican senator kelly ayotte. we are online at c-span radio.org. to our free apps for your iphone, android, or blackberry.

>> we want to know how the government shutdown is affecting you. messageyour short video about the shutdown and uploaded from your mobile device. see what others are touting about. we are at the hoover house here on the campus of stanford university. this was the primary residence of the hoovers. she was the one who designed it. she had such a strong grasp of design and how she wanted the house to look, even though she was not a an architect. her influence surely came from her travels in the southwest of the united states.

it is a great legacy of lou henry. she designed and created the house. inspired by her ideas and she had very close involvement in all aspects of the house's creation. >> meet lou hoover monday night on c-span and c-span three. >> washington journal continues. get the are going to perspective of two former congressman who went through previous shutdowns. tom davis, a republican from toginia serving from 1995 2008. both congressmen served as heads of their respective campaign committees. thank you for being with us this morning. the latest news from capitol hill has been the discussions on have moved over

to the senate. how do you think your colleagues or representatives of their are feeling now that they seemingly are out of the action in determining the fate of this thing he e -- this thing? they cannot play work product on the floor. you have to be able to produce a work product when you are in the majority. and now you have members of the republican conference that will not do a debt ceiling without the government because they realize if you do a debt ceiling resolution the government will stay closed for any length of time. we have another group that basically wants to repeal obamacare. they have driven themselves into an environment right now of what public opinion is not supporting it. that isre in a district

overwhelmingly republican you are probably on the right side. all of these marginal seats, members under a numbers pressure. guest: in terms of getting a product, as congressman davis said, this was months, if not more, on the house side. guest: there is a difference between now and 1995 when we went through this last time. even though gingrich was the moving force behind government, once they decided -- once he decided to make a deal with clinton it was done. they might have done some but he could deliver. john boehner cannot live for anything at this point. there is an article today about the effect that this has had on the senator races that is coming up.

now it looks like those chances are much weaker. that the inconceivable democrats could take the house back. it would be a reach the way the districts are drawn. the republicans could make nancy pelosi speaker again. i was in a district -- i got reelected 221. let me tell you what has changed. the speaker does not have the power in the caucus right now. it is a very divisive caucus. republicans are representing different constituencies. three other things have changed. if you look at the republican , 80% of theoday

republican conference have over 55% of the vote. you had 77 members of the conference. approximately the same as everywhere else. the republican pressures are -- the pressures are on republican members. have fox news, you didn't have ms nbc. rush limbaugh was just starting talk radio. the information flowing out is very high in terms of what people are hearing with basic facts. it makes it difficult for leaders to leave. -- leaders to lead. has movedin this town away from the parties because the campaign finance reform -- the money is no longer with the parties.

we did not have any of those when we last went to the shutdown. this has made it difficult for leaders to lead. could either of you see yourself heading up a campaign committee in the house he e -- both of use? guest: were opposed to the finance law that put money into these third- party groups, these groups in the extreme. i could run the committee today, i could have some fun with it. it would be more interesting that being a member right now. being a member would be terrible at this point. there used to be pride in congress. right now they are distributed. i go through grocery stores in my district.

people have nothing good to say. it is almost like you want to put a bag over your head. republicans did pass some appropriations bills this year. they can never agree on what the numbers would be. the sentence did not pass any appropriation bills. the senate wanted to sit down and negotiate with the overall number would be. there is plenty of blame to go around. you have to recognize that in our democracy we have to work together. i know the public does not fully understand the inner workings of the conch for us -- of the congress. if the speaker wants a bill on the floor it is on the floor. if he does not want the bill on the floor or in the house it is not there. john boehner could put a pillow on the floor tomorrow to open up the government and it would pass because all the democrats would vote for it. probably enough republicans

would vote for it. i am guessing he is afraid that he will be deposed midterm if he does that in his own caucus. also some bills like the transportation bill for 2014, they knew they could not pass it. aest: this would pass with dash with 20-25 republican votes. guest: a point of personal privilege, it is not hard. host: let's open up our phone lines for your comments and questions for congressman tom davis and martin frost. the phone lines --

we will go to our independence line first, we hear from littleton, colorado. the morning from tony. -- good morning to tony. it looks so much different to me this time around. the economy is so much worse and people are in so much worse shape than they were 17 years ago. i think that has been lost on our current congress. back then we came out of it stronger. i think we are coming out of it weaker. -- we possibly moving to even a breakdown of our democracy -- and i don't mean to sound hyperbolic but people are really angry. both parties. is it different and are we in a more dangerous place than we

were before you go -- before? is a very insightful question. we have come to behave, as voters, that this is a polymer tree system. democrats in republican districts and very few republicans in democratic districts. 94% of republicans are in districts that romney carried. you find very few outlier member districts where someone is in a district they should not be. that was not true 18 years ago. and there will -- there was a lot of ticket splitting. there is less today than anytime time in the last two generations. is ok except when the members come here they behave like parliamentary's. in a parliamentary system, you are the opposition party. they come here to say, put your

points on the board. they get no helps from the democrats on these issues. republicans did it to the democrats under health care and some of these other bills, saying we are the opposition party. the problem with that is our government structure is not a parliamentary system. it is thus setting very well. it is coming apart. >> one of the differences between now and 1995 is that the business community has very little stroke inside the republican party. thisess leaders have said is crazy, we need to extend the debt ceiling, we need to reopen the government, and they happened ignoring by the republican party. committee -- business community spoke with a loud voice.

when the government last shutdown the economy was booming ash -- was booming -- let's hear from martin in arkansas on our democrat line. is -- we theestion people want the government back open. i do not understand why both parties are pointing fingers at each other. it is a shame when i listen to this on tv, people have their

food stamps cut. why are we spending -- sending money overseas? i am ashamed to be on tv in our country, and a woman dies for this country. she did not get her benefits. on it.bably voted made a statement that cannot be answered. none of this makes any sense. i would hope that this coming they managed to extend the debt ceiling. they managed to get the government open for some period of time. sit down. this is a horrible situation. it is not in the best interests of the country. it is crazy the government is

closed right now. one of the problems as you have so many people inside the republican party trying to put conditions on reopening the government. it is a simple matter. let's see how it happens in the coming week. --guest: the democrats should down the government with a republican resident many times. guest: sure. guest: the problem is, if you believe the government is spending much too much, you only have to leverage points. your annual budget and opportunities to raise the debt ceiling. what is important is you take the issues, try to get some concessions are you do not have to raise the debt ceiling the next time. this is your only opportunity to exercise controls on spending. but the system counts on the

people coming together. it has gotten to the point now where it is out of hand. guest: you get to the point where you get the best deal you can. both sides do not get what they want, but they get something. i guess this is going to happen october 17. sure scares tuple. just: it's not brinkmanship, but america's reputation overseas. caller, you are on the air. caller: hello, everyone. i think we see -- all right, let's move on to nicole in jackson city. i was calling to talk but the government shutdown. i have a niece.

she is in college. her child was in head start. the thing with parents -- they have to overcome and yesterday in the grocery store, there was a woman in there behind her. children. they got the groceries. they could not pay for them because the system was down. the government is how you are fixing them. i hate them for everybody and i just hope they can come together. it is terrible. host: thank you.

-washingtonnbc journal poll shows right track, wrong track, people are losing their confidence in government. that is never a good thing for either party. these are internal factors caused by elected officials. the poll in was terms of the confidence in congress down five percent. tom used to joke when it was at 11%, that was family and friends. i'm not sure who thinks congress is doing a job right now. guest: it could be the members. guest: you hear now over the next four or five days, tough andveterans harry reid mitch mcdonnell, they are going to make a deal. i'm not sure what the deal is

going to be. this is not the way the government should be run. it should not be closed-door meetings with a couple old guys who have been through the wars. republicans have a real problem here because they will not put anything on the floor of the house. i understand the difficulty, but at some point you've got to say, ok, it's not worth being speaker -- what you arek referring to is the fact that whatever comes up is going to have majority support within the republican conference. a comment from twitter. stella says "the fact is they knew this was coming and took their july, august vacations and the labor day long weekend and they were all derelict in duty."

back to the issue of getting the spending bills done. they knew this was coming. guest: that is the mentality. offle do not like to come their positions. these people are from safe seats. november elections mean nothing to 80% of these members. it is the rye marry elections that elect them. they are back in their comfort zone. but, tom, it is interesting. i thought about this, specifically what was asked in the summer. if i had been in the democratic leadership and we controlled the house -- which i wasn't and we didn't control the house -- i mynk i would have said to members, we shouldn't take august off this year. if boehner had done that and held the house and in august, i

think that might have been a popular decision in the country. didn't democrats try something similar a year ago? these pro forma sessions -- guest: we have mock sessions on the floor. , they do nots respond unless it is a crisis situation. it has to be an economic crisis, whatever it is, to happen. you have parliamentary habits in a balance of power system and it does not work very well without some sort of crisis between them. the members have some really smart, good people in congress. they are not in control of the system though. that makes it difficult to operate. i look at the voters. you elect these people. how many of you are active in

primaries? the primaries are controlled by very ideological bands of every party. by the general election, your choices are made. i remember in the 1960's -- you are better at history a man locked the doors of the california legislature in said people are not leaving until we get this resolved. i would like a democrat or republican leader to do this in washington. host joseph on thet: democrats'line. i'm 82 years old. ira member the depression. i remember the depression. i have two questions for these x politicians. if the government closes down,

are we old people not going to get our social security checks or our savings in our bank or our ira checking? and for all those republican abel, tea party people, the -- too big,s to big keep them out of our business. but keep our social security. guest: there's a lot of frustration to read those checks are not going to go out. the republicans have passed bills keeping more obvious and popular parts of government open . democrats have rejected that saying they don't want to take it piecemeal. waybottom line is, the only you will make this work in washington is if you make it win-win.

these conversations have been devoid of that today. the debt ceiling vote is not keeping the government open. if they do not extend the debt ceiling, people are not going to get their social security check. god only knows what will happen 's.ira's and 401k guest: we will spiral down. we will go into a recession and worst. guest: i have college accounts my grandchildren, retirement accounts. i'm just like everybody else in the country. it's just incredible that anyone would seriously consider not extending the debt ceiling. if you don't get your social security check, it will be because the debt ceiling is not extended. former congressman martin congressman jim davis.

encounter the shutdown in your day-to-day work now? guest: i do. i work with a larger partnership and not everyone is working if you are not working and the contractors are not working. paying the about employees and they will eventually get paid, although a lot of federal employees will miss paychecks. paycheck tog paycheck, that means hardships and credit problems. contractors did not get paid for these things. that means they have to carry a real them a real burden. it's going to have a very bad effect on the economy. with a national law firm. clients of the firm cannot get paperwork process whether it is dealing with fha, some other federal agency. the other thing that tom mentioned -- let's say you run a

restaurant, café. arefederal work force ultimately made whole. they get their money. for weeks and weeks you have a much smaller number of people shopping at your restaurant or café. that may put you out of business. it does not do you any good if the federal worker gets their back pay two months from now. in 1995 or 1996 was there any effort in congress to compensate people who may have lost money related to -- you don't get that. we know this drives unemployment. there is no question about that. the people is measure the statistics are out of work, so you can see the statistics. and peopleractors who do business with the government, they are furloughing people right now.

havenot believe that they said we will give you the back pay. this is not just federal workers. this affects an enormous amount of other people and that's why this thing is so crazy. on employment applications, 66,000 additional this last week. california on our gop line. yes -- [laughter] i just have to say one quick thing at the end of the day when it is all said and done, it is only up to the president to make it work. that is pretty much it. everybody is culpable on this. the president cannot sign anything that is not on his desk. i will say one thing, i think the president in getting his remarks and showing flexibility

was very important in getting this close. host: in one of the pieces on 1995ifferences between the -1996 shutdown and now, one of the three differences was clinton and gingrich were open to compromise. you indicated that neither president obama nor speaker boehner were open. is a crisis situation. they will get pressured to move off. the president does not want to negotiate on the debt ceiling or the cr -- guest: they have to. these are the only pressure points you have. they do not want to push where one party drives the country off the cliff. the president has been dealt a hand with a republican house. you have to deal with that. the american people are going to hold everybody responsible. arlene, good morning.

democrats line. caller: think you for having me. first of all, i think we need to take money out of politics. holding mostings people are jobs and the shutdown going on is the money involved in politics. if we get that out and put power back into the peoples hands, we will have a better outcome. thank you. frost, would you think of that? host: the problem with that -- guest: the problem with that is the supreme court has taken the position that money is a free- speech issue any ability to spend money is free speech protected by the constitution. unless he were to amend the u.s. constitution to say that congress has the authority to put limits on what can be spent in races, the supreme court's not going to let that stand. host: you both opposed mccain-

feingold? guest: we both opposed it. i agree. if we get money out of politics, it's a different ballgame. i love the british system. but we have the first amendment. what they have done is expanded despite free speech, government's attempts to limit it. here's the problem with mccain- feingold and a lot of well- intentioned laws. the political party is a very centering force in this country for 200 years because they compete for the middle of the road to win elections. mccain-feingold limited money to political parties. that money did not does appear. it's now out on the wings, the right and left wing. pelosi,hner, nancy

obama, they do not have any control over this. these are actors with their own agendas. guest: in 1995-1996 when i was chairman of the congressional campaign committee, before raise-feingold, we could unlimited amounts of money from corporations and unions, but we had to report every dollar we raised. can't, and you can get large donations from individuals. , butou do not have those they are giving them to these other entities. and it is not reportable. so no one is held accountable. that was the problem with mccain-feingold. it puts all of this underground. guest: it didn't mean to.

but we knew this was going to happen. guest: some of us had an inkling this was going to happen. i had arguments with members of my own party. well, don't worry about that, congressman, because we will say 60 days before an election they cannot do this. i said, what happens if the courts rule that unconstitutional. they said, our lawyers have told us it is ok. well, their lawyers were wrong. before an election is when it should matter the most. guest: but they were pretending that somehow putting the 60-day limit -- guest: pie in the sky liberal. at [laughter] caller on the line from new jersey. caller: remember how we got

here. the debt ceiling was raised. what happened? all the republicans wanted was regular order. the democrats passed the budget. the republicans passed the budget. the republicans in the senate and the house refused to go to conference. why did they do that? a they wanted this crisis. without the crisis they had no negotiating position. they couldn't get what they wanted unless there was a crisis. now if they had actuallyd, they would have to give something. they do not want to give anything. why are we here? the bottom line comes down to this. they do not want to give a penny in revenue. they want all their changes. they want to medicare changes. the what the medicaid changes. they want the social security changes. they do not want a penny in revenue. that is what the impact is. that is why a big bill will not be created.

why should the democrats give them everything they want just to open the government, just to raise the debt ceiling? does not make sense, guys. i appreciate your comments. let me give you a couple points. they did not go to conference in the house and the senate -- you get a lot of embarrassing votes. the republican leadership did not feel it was help on that. but the house did do something the senate didn't do, and that was they passed a number of appropriations bills. the senate passed zero appropriations bills. that funds six percent, five percent of government. you have dod and others. feel they gave in revenue last year when the bush tax cuts expired and tax rates went up for many americans. an additionalis tax on people.

they felt they had given enough. what you had was a spending problem, not a revenue problem. not recognizing the compromises, april have to move off their positions and that is out you get there. we are at the point where republicans are not giving it off and vice versa. i think it is beyond who wins and who loses. this: what may come out of -- we don't know yet -- but what may come out of this week is an agreement to go to conference on the underlying budget resolution. an agreement where the democrats and republicans would appoint conferees for the budget year that just started, october 1. but to do that, they would probably have to be silent on the subject of revenue. in other words the democrats want everything that is done to be revenue positive and raise more taxes. the republicans want

to be revenue neutral. they probably would have to totally not speak to that at all, appoint the conferees, and hopefully come back with a package that would reduce spending and provide some additional revenue to pay down the debt ceiling. to ask about the impact on the workspace in capitol hill during these crises. here is a headline from this morning. protracted debate grace on disposition. is it hard to work with your colleagues in these difficult times? host: you have republicans -- republicansave angry with republicans on this conference. you do not want the tension to be fueled by some of the pac's over there on the right. but sure, members are not seen their families. they are sitting here for link the times when they are

scheduled to do other things. the first shutdown, my family had scheduled a vacation in new york over businessweek. we put our money down. the government was shut down. we had to stay. guest: 1996 did have a positive affect. then the shutdown in 1995, you had the agreement on raising the -- the minimum wage. it did cause the parties to sit down and try to work some things out together. but i'm not sure that will happen this time. was more of a spirit of cooperation after a lot of showmanship in 1995. guest: but you did not have your media models that thrive on polarization. david in new york. myler: thanks for taking

call. unfortunately this country on a federal and state-level soffit to take the taxpayers dollars -- saw fit to take the taxpayers dollars and try to create jobs or even an economy for this country in states and to hand out those tax dollars in subsidies. i will give you an example. i live near hunter mountain. hunter mountain was given a grant through the state and the federal government, given to them by the federal government, to the department of agriculture. they used that grant to put up a top of theget to the mountain. chairlift. i thought the department of agriculture gave farmers money. so, that means some former missed out on money he should have got that hunter mountain got. that is very corrupt. i will give you another example.

there are farmers here that i know that have forms that do not even farm the land. they live on the land, but they farm nothing. there are neighbors that go to them and say, listen, i see you have hayfield. you don't do a thing with them. why don't you let me use my tractor? i will buy the gas. let me making money off the hay. example, a former around here has a big farm. he has forces. and neighbor comes up, rents out , so she getsbarn her own clientele to bring the courses to his barn, and she takes care of the horses. it is so corrupt, the whole really don't know what is going to go on. and i say to you, gentlemen, or

rather i ask you to discuss this on your show today, because you just said nothing earlier that our government does not even care about our business sector. all right, david, we will get reaction. guest: i will start. i think what the fellow was asking, i'm not certain -- i think it was probably going to a question about the way it earmarks, appropriations are made. when i was in congress, i was always proud when i got an and putor my district out a press release because i thought i did something for people i represented. some of the objections have been that congressmen have tried to earmark funds for their bodies that have nothing to do with their own district and they have done that in secret. i think it on theht to be out table. if the congressman was a project for his district, he gets funding for it, he should put out a statement defending it, explaining why he did it.

gets we -- i was able to funding for mass transit system in dallas. i was very proud of that. earmarks are an progress.part of the bridge to nowhere -- i know alaskans may not like it, but at least we knew where it came from. bureaucrat, some state leader -- there's nothing wrong since the money comes from the house of representatives and they allocate pieces that should be transparent, should be for private company. i think earmarks are an important piece. let me just address the gentleman from question. liveovernment should within their means. when martin and i were there, we reached budget agreements. we have four years of balanced budgets. that is for congress ought to be heading. we have been heading in the opposite direction for the last four years. we have borrowed 40 cents on

every dollar we have spent. this will be paid for by our kids. that is what this whole fight is about, at least from the republican narrative. we have to use what leverage we have to have a discussion. there is nothing wrong with that. the difficulty is going over the hill, over the cliff on both of these, you make things worse. >> what happened in the 1990's, when tom and i were there, 1993, 1994, congress passed a budget resolution, passed legislation that did both. a cut spending and raise taxes. then you had balanced budgets through a lot of the 1990's. congress is willing to take a balanced approach. now you can't even sit down and talk about that. you can even start a dialogue about that. that is a big if friends. we took some very tough votes in

the 90s. to set up a framework to do budget cuts and -- cuts expired. tax that was a tax increase. the president said you could go a different level. you get one bite at the apple. republicans got burned. i don't think they will go over that again. host: good morning. caller: good morning, sir. sorry about my cold. democratic republic? the other question is, are we collecting enough revenue now to pay our bills without the shutdown? thank you. will start. we are not collecting enough revenue. we could make some budget cuts and raise a little bit more revenue. we are a democracy. powers, aalance of

divided government. we are not a parliamentary system. we are a very unique form of democracy. we are the oldest continuous democracy on the face of the earth right now but it's not running very well. with martin.e tom davis, martin frost theing about this morning 1996 shutdown and what is ahead. one last question for both of you. what would be quick advice from both of you? how do we keep this from happening next year and years to come? guest: we should do something about the debt ceiling. these votes have become very painful. our leverage point, you can tie it to some percentage of gdp or something like that. we are one of three countries in the world that have a debt ceiling.

under a balance of power system, this becomes tough. it has been inappropriate leverage point, but in the past people have come to agreements. at this point, it threatens the whole economy. thehreatens -- it threatens markets and the american dollar. guest: you have both parties and the executive ranch say, ok, let's take another look at simpson-bowles, the commission that made recommendations. at least those recommendations were starting point. host: thanks for being with us. up next on "washington journal," we will look at a number of states and how the government shutdown is affecting things in states across the country as "washington journal" continues here on c-span. ♪

>> tonight, part two of our conversation with josh bolten. about why giving us what you saw with the press in the media and that world, how did you view them? >> usually with some hostility. natural state of affairs between the white house and the press corps, because that is just the nature of what the press needs to do. catch theto try to white house out on whatever is going on. >> more with bush administration chief of staff josh bolten tonight on "q&a." -- we bring public

affairs is bentz from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional meetings, white house events, briefings, and conferences, and offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house. we are c-span, created by the funded bystry and your local cable or satellite provider. and now you can watch us in hd. >> uranium. i'm in chicago. it's 1996, 1997. i have my bachelors degree. i'm latino. you would think they would be looking for young bright articulate people like me to come work for your firm or your company. no one. one application after another. i thought to myself, hmm. i did this in college. i drove a cab. i have to tell you, it was hard. i had the many plans. i remember when i went back to

see my dad that christmas. he said, after all the effort and all of the expense, for you to wind up doing exactly what i did. toept saying, dad, i have work. i have to keep my self-respect and my dignity. this is something that puts food and pays the rent. >> the journey of the first latino elected to congress in ,he midwest. at luis gutierrez part of afterwords on booktv. >> "washington journal" continues. >> for the last hour and a half on the program, we are going to look at how the government shutdown is affecting dates across the country. here is how you can be part of that conversation. -- numbers are

in florida,t first tampa florida, to hear from richard danielson, who is with the tampa bay times. richard, thank you for being with us this morning. guest: good morning. it's good to be here. host: you have written about how the shutdown is affecting florida in terms of social security benefits. what do you hear from people you are reporting on? overall our reporting shows the longer the shutdown goes on, the more pronounced the effects will be. with social security in particular, the checks are being cut on the payment schedule. that is normal. field offices are open. but doing limited business. they will cross as an , butcation for benefits

they won't do other things. they won't issue a new social security card. they won't replace our social security card or replace a medicare card. as a result they are not seeing as many people comment. i happen to live in clearwater, which is one of the cities in the country historically that has the highest percentage of residents over 65 years old. i have been to the local social security office here to help my mom with her social security, and usually is pretty crowded. i dropped by on a friday, just to see what it was like, and it was not nearly as clouds -- crowded as it normally is. interestingly, as i was going in, a guy walked out and he said, i did not even know you are open, speaking to the security guard on the other side of the door. that suggests that a lot of people aren't really sure what

they can do or what's available to them. for all the services that are not being handled right now, a backlog is building up, and maybe even for services that are being handled, there is also a backlog. the longer the shutdown goes on, the bigger that backlog is going to be. fromhuffingphic tonpost.com shows the impact on states, florida one of the top 10 states affected by social security funding shortages. you talked about medicare offices here and what about medicare payments? are they affected at all? guest: we have not reported yet on that type of thing happening. so, i could not say for certain. host: as the shutdown has

progressed now nearly two weeks, of mentioned that some these, the offices that have been closed, depending on where you visit -- you mentioned you are from clearwater. our social security recipients getting guidance from their local offices on this? my understanding is the field offices for social security are open, but they are not doing everything they normally do. you go in, you get a list there. there are nine different or buses -- services they can handle right there on the spot. but there are some services they would normally do that they are not in a position to do. do, for people who do need assistance, they also recommend that you go to the social security website, and you can make an application for benefits there.

also, it was noted in an article this week in the tampa bay times, the effect on tourism visitor dollars. here is the headline -- millions about rate as shutdown forces delay tampa bay defense conference. you write that a four-day national defense and intelligence operatives was abruptly postponed this week because of the federal government shutdown, raising more than 7000 hotel room nights and an estimated $5 million from the local economy. are there other conferences that are likely to affect the local economy? i asked the local convention and visitors bureau about that, and they said they did not have anything on their books that they felt was likely in jeopardy. just to talk a little bit about

that particular conference, it was a symposium of 4000 people involved in intelligence, defense, security. a big national get-together for people in this industry area. depending on this business had these reservations on the books for two years or more. i spoke with them one at the hancock sultan downtown who said this symposium was going to account for more than 400 rooms at night at her 520-room hotel. when that went away, that business could not be replaced quickly. where tampa is located, there is about $5 a month, so this one

conference as a percentage is not large, but if it happens to be your $5 million in economic kickbacks, it is quite profound. local, restaurants, businesses that provide private meeting place and others who depend on tourism. danielson writes for the tampa bay times. thanks for joining us on "washington journal" this morning. guest: my pleasure. host: we are asking about the impact of the government shutdown on your states. democrat's line. go ahead. you.r: thank jackson is affected at this time because you have programs that are about to end in december, if they continued the shutdown. we have received letters this past week with regards to the

head start program. stamp aid -- food we avert some grocery stores are not wanting to accept the car just because of the continuing government shutdown. have a lot of americans out there wondering what is going to happen with what is going on here. there was that issue, the story, i do not have it in front of me. was one of 17 states affected by an issue yesterday, a computer issue that the department of agriculture is saying was not related to the shutdown, was a contractor issue, which apparently has been resolved. caroline, thanks for your call. let's go to gym in medford, oregon. i'm sorry, jim -- greg, i'm sorry, in union, missouri. go ahead. republican line. noter: yeah, it has

affected our state or anything like that. it is not as bad as obama is making it out like the sequester , going to shut down the government. you know, he is a liar. he is a complete liar. , do you know any friends, neighbors, government workers who have been furloughed from this? no, none. not a missouri. none whatsoever. ok.: let's hear from gwen in michigan. caller: thank you for taking my call. it is happening here in michigan. i take care of my brother. to getthe food stamps some groceries, and they said ebt was down. i know it is happening here in michigan. yes, i think michigan was

one of the 17 states mentioned -- right. i also want to say i think should put theer amendment on the floor. and he needs to do that. that is what is holding up everything. and everybody that calls should say whether or not he should do that. that's all i have to say. host: the house will not be to the -- will not be in today. the senate will be. they will be in for a rare sunday session after the house failing to move forward. republicans blocking the effort to move the debt ceiling bill that would've extended the debt ceiling into 2014. a washington post sunday opinion piece about the effects of the shutdown of one particular worker. shutdown -- what happens when

public servants cannot serve. the writer is the director of house -- housing and urban development special needs. that thee writes shutdown is a further affront to public servants who take their jobs and missions seriously as well as those americans who rely on us and our government. progress on our mission -- which is to end homelessness -- is already, undeniably, been compromised. so has the work of the public servants to protect the foodonment, monitor public safety, run our national parks, buyers,loans for home and so much more. that is an opinion piece from this morning. that's go to florida now. ann -- caller: that's right. mortgages are affected and everything. they should never have those

parties dancing in the aisles and all of that when this money is so important and the economy is so bad. never. huntington, west virginia, john on the independent line. john, hello? caller: yes, my name is john. the shutdown is going to hurt our state bad. no one is coming to see the fall colors in our parks because they are all shutdown. that is going to hurt our hotels. the american people are standing up and asking for these people to give up their paychecks. they should not be getting paid if they are not working for us. i don't understand it. thank you. from pennsylvania on the democrats line. go ahead. live within 90 minutes of gettysburg. i live about 20 minutes from carlisle, from the private who

was killed in action and the state denied the death benefit as a result. my congressman, lou barletta, at first he said he was for the shutdown. then he said he was for a clean resolution. then he was accused of being a rino. nice strong backbone from him, thank you. host: tom, are you still with us? we lost time. he mentioned gettysburg. a number of monuments were opened i the governor -- by the york. thein new statue of liberty. mount rushmore in that announcement on friday. bill, republican line. bill, how has the shutdown affected things in georgia? caller: my part of the state has not been affected at all. in fact the state is doing better with the shutdown.

all i can say is this whole thing is a made-up thing. it has not affected our state at all. we are doing just fine. the airports are working. everything is working just fine. the only thing i have to say is they are basically getting people with up. it's getting people to the boiling wait unnecessarily. reduce and we will see the usual stuff, the usual propaganda, a little kid with a distended belly, starving. whatever, i don't know. just get people angrier and angrier. this whole thing is a bunch of baloney and makes people very angry and that is not good for the country, not good for the state, not good for people in general. the most awful thing that ever happened because you and the media claim this is something major. there is nothing major here. there is nothing. absolutely nothing. as for the lady with the ebt card who cannot get her food stamp, that was a problem with

the level of the company that ran the program. had nothing to do with the government shutdown. you've got people coming in with ideas,a, the ridiculous and their hysterical concepts. in norcross, bill georgia. craig, independent line, brookfield, massachusetts. caller: good morning. good morning.t: caller: i'm kind of like the previous color. i am an independent. i'm a new sound. i like the contrarian view. if it is status quo news, i usually don't go there. i like to look at contrary in. i have a theory. i think it is a concerted effort from obamacare shifting the cost of medical care -- i think if you look at states like detroit, , a lotnia, rhode island

of the failures with the states to have the money available for their medical, for their retirees and their benefits is a big weight. i think if the cities can take that cost and spread it across the federal government, i think it will be a great savings for them and the corporate knowledge sheets, if they can take the form of corporations as we see ups and there are other examples. timenesses are hiring part- so they don't have to pay benefits. i think this is a huge signal for the corporation, shifting from their balance sheets to the government and ultimately the taxpayer is huge.

to see this. from now on, everyone hired and the union will be put in pool x supposed to everyone now who will stay in the better pool. what you think of that? we appreciate your call. we are taking your calls and hearing reporters across the country on the effects of the government shutdown in your state. we go to alabama and talk with --a gore, thatleada gore with leada gore. your most recent piece says the drills cancel them paychecks alabama national guard dealing with government shutdown. how bad are the delays? caller: -- you have economy of scale issues.

when something disrupts a major portion of the economic output, it becomes exponentially a bigger problem. we have about 35,000 department of defense workers in the state. our largest military only and has about 1000 soldiers. when you start looking at furloughing defense workers, then we have a huge problem with those people losing pay and those who support those institutions losing work. alabama a pretty red state on the political side of things. what are people saying in terms of -- on one hand they are having issues like the national guard drill being cut, but on the other hand, folks who want less spending in washington and supporting the tea party and other conservative efforts to rein in rural governments ending? -- rein in federal government

spending? --guest: alabama is a republican state. the republican party is not getting a pass on what is happening in the state. it is a real dichotomy. on one hand, you have people saying, yes, shut it down. but when it impacts you and your neighbor and their pension, it's not that they are saying we want to stop.t they do not want government to function in the way it is. republicans, democrats, or tea party. , had somebody just tell me throw the bums out. the bombs are the people they voted for. are the people they voted for. we are tired of the gridlock.

say, a little deceptive to well, republican states are hit hard and democrat states are not. think where there is did the satisfaction -- dissatisfaction is with the process, regardless of the party. a piece you did just as the fiscal year was ending. -- looming federal shutdown would immediately impact head start programs in alabama, force other k-12 cuts. alabama gets about one billion dollars from the federal government annually. there have been --guest: there have been spending cuts throughout. head start programs, just like

head start programs from all over the country have been affect it. but where we are seeing is a big trickle-down uncertaintyre the head starte cut funding, we cut every different program you can think of. the other thing you have to realize with the shutdown as far as alabama goes, it comes on the cuts that have been ongoing which are huge in the state. health caret programs, you cannot separate a government shutdown from sequestration. it has created the perfect storm in the state. to the issue of the national guard drills being canceled. what jobs do they have and what training aren't they getting? guest: in alabama we have a very active national guard. is your are seeing

weekend soldiers. your typical drills. in essence, this is your weekend drills, your regular training. keeping them updated. is noter big thing maintaining what they have. sequestration the shutdown combo. repairs are not being made. thing.he simple contractors who provide basic services have already seen their jobs cut in with the shutdown it is cut even more. a martial center with 2000 workers who have been furloughed. it has impacted that whole federal workforce. it affects the whole state. gore is the alabama

media group statewide were reporter. thanks for being here. guest: thank you. we continue with your calls and how the government shutdown is affecting or if it is affecting. matthew? caller: how are you today? host: very well, thank you. go ahead. european ihink as a feel like i should say this, because after all those democrats and republicans opposed action over our debt crisis. taking aope have been lot of measures, doing a lot of heavy, unpopular things to try to correct our own economy, which includes our petrol

prices, which you pay at the pump, those prices have gone up. food prices have gone up. all of the things that would normally have been kept down by a good economy would go up because our economy has not been all that great. basically., we have harmed our national debt. yet you the united states has been able to massively increase its debt over the same period. it seems to mean no one is taking the bull by the horns and actually saying, you know, we need to wrestle the situation to the ground. we need to start taking the necessary steps. do not likeord you in america is austerity, but that is what america needs to do to deal with the current debt crisis. you are affecting -- what you are doing now is affecting my state, which is the united

kingdom. you are affecting the international community, the global economy. g-ust wonder if perhaps the minus thethe g-20 united states should get 20ether, it invite the next states, and say, let's come up with an action plan if the united states hits default so we can firewall the rest of the economy and isolate the united states. there will we can do business with you but not have massive crisis is of our own. i just wonder what you think about that. thank you for your time. i love c-span. thank you for the good work. matthew, joining us from cardiff, wales. are you watching on the parliament channel? caller: yes, i am. host: is there any particular

impact on whales in terms of lack of u.s. federal presence in this two-week stretch? example, commerce, certainly internationally, has been affect did. -- things like the ability for etc., to call embassies, has been affected because authorities are not getting paychecks. which means, if you have relatives, and i have a lot of ,elatives in the united states if you look at the whole global situation, they wanted to come over to the u.k. -- they had to cancel their trip in fear they might lose their job. it is