>> good afternoon. it is a beautiful afternoon. we had the privilege of having a conversation with the president about the looming deadline. we are still optimistic that there is a path to lift the debt ceiling in time. we have heard of the bipartisan legislation being prepared in the united states senate. we're disappointed that the house republicans decided to or at leastt was hoping there delay. everyone knows that time is of .he essence they have to know if it has

been described. they have to do that with 100% .epublican vote. we stand ready our members have signed letters and petitions to open government, that we are therefore a coin legislation to open the government, clean legislation to lift the debt ceiling, that would take us on budget deal in any and all issues can be discussed. that is where we are. i am optimistic here at i believe because of the impact of not lifting the debt ceiling, on , is soalone actually catastrophic there will be those in the republican party who will see the light. we stand ready to supply the vote. if they go on the path they are on, they will need 100% republican vote.

>> thank you. i agree with the leader this was a very positive meeting. the president is very committed to getting the government open. obviously, making sure america pays its bills. thatsured the president those two objectives have the overwhelming almost unanimous support of our caucus. we have a letter signed on the debt limit and will be the opening up government. those are our two major objectives. we have 48 hours to make sure our country remains solvent in paying its debt and making sure our workers get back to work on behalf of the american people. theree with the leader if republican conference wants to offer, it has other things in think isf which we very damaging to the united states of america. is taking away from the

president and the secretary treasury the ability to manage the payment of our debt so we remain a zero risk creditor. let me yield to my friend, the assistant leader. >> thank you. been veryour has productive. i hope the next several hours would be as such. i find it interesting much of the discussion we have been hearing for the last several be -- weeks has been the fact we could maintain the credit of the united states of america by prioritizing. assess the debt. , all the sudden, from what we're hearing, the lesson is now being brought forward to take

of thee ability president and the secretary of to manage our debt and deficits. that, to us, is absolutely the worst possible thing that could be done. we are very interested in a and a cleantion debt limit. .e can apply a vast majority we are hopeful the speaker will allow legislation to come to the floor and we commit to him and the american people, democrats will be solid in support. >> house republicans are talking to theonsolidating bitter amendment and including staff as well. a lot of democrats thought

privacy was opposed. is your statement about not having any democratic votes, does that stand if they shrink ,heir demands to that amendment with members, lawmakers? >> let me take a crack at that. 48 hours. this is the 15th day of a shutdown, where government want to gethose who .n social security

we are two days from -- according to the secretary of the treasury, not being able to manage our debt and stay a zero-risk nation. the extraneous things that the republicans are talking about do not serve our nation and what the leader and i are saying is our members are prepared to cooperate fully in getting those two things done. then we can talk about other things. but we need to move on those and we need to move on them now and we're hopeful that the speaker, we're very pleased with what's happened in the senate. the senate's been working together in a bipartisan way to try to get to an agreement. i'm sorry that that bill hasn't been sent over to us. but there will be time to talk about other matters once we we get the government open and pay our bills. >> how confident are you that you can keep your democrats together? that you won't lose any democrats supporting the g.o.p. proposal in the house as it stands now? we feel pretty confident. let me just say why. this full faith and credit, for any -- take any one of the proposals they have and they've had a whole assortment of proposals that they why is a -- they would say the full faith and credit of the united states of america is less than our doing a cheap shot amendment, for example, on the bill. we're very pleased with what's

but here it is, the whole world is watching. this is of global consequence. can have catastrophic effects. we are the united states of america. . the biggest economy in the world. and we want to have our interest, our credit rating downgraded. we want to pay more for our -- the money that we need to borrow in order to conduct the government. we have engaged these expenses, we have to honor the commitment to pay for them. if you don't appreciate the global and national consequences of it, and the board room table or the international -- the global table, it doesn't resonate with you, just think of america's kitchen table. kitchen tables. kitchen tables where people are now going to pay more for their interest on loans, for student loans, their mortgage, their car payment, their credit card bills. if they're small business owners

they're going to pay more interest on their business loans. so your interest will go up and your 401-k will go down. anybody here have a 401-k? do you check it from time to time? this is what is at stake here and how it directly affects people over and above the bigger picture. so our members understand that we're here to do something big and consequential for our country. interest on their business loans. already we have had an opportunity, cost of time when we should be doing bills to create jobs as our budget does. that's why here eager to go to the budget table. that's why the senate bill that says, lift the debt ceiling, open government and go to the budget table, appeals to us. i have to say, i would rather have a senate bill or our bill that would say we're going to extend the debt ceiling for a year. i think just a few months isn't long enough. but nonetheless, that's what a compromise is about. that's where their comfort level is. we accept that and we will have strong, strong democratic support. and i'll say it again, if the president -- if the speaker thinks that he is going to put

all these extraneous matters to question the full faith and credit of the united states of america, he's going to have to have his own vote to do it. >> the senate conversations have ground to a haufment there isn't any more work on the senate bill. they're waiting for the house to do legislation. that's got to be on the floor tonight. and what you're saying is, you don't see -- [inaudible] why are you therefore optimistic that it's going to get resolved in the next 48 hours? >> the only thing i would say in response to that is the only

bipartisan conversations that we're going on with the united states senate, between republicans and democrats, vow to ask yourself, why did they stall? and they stalled because of this deliberate effort in the house, started by the tea party caucus, and once again speaker boehner has allowed that part of his caucus to run the show. so, what we need is whatever happens to this legislation, which is not bipartisan, they need to get back to the table, the united states senate, and work out an agreement. and i would just say with respect to some of these extraneous provisions, we've always said we're prepared to make adjustments in the affordable care act, we're happy to discuss any of the issues that are in the republican budget, and the democratic budget. at the budget negotiating table, where we've been trying to go since last march, and have been blocked. but what we're not prepared to do is accept these unrelated extraneous measures under the threat of continuing government shutdown and under the threat of not paying our bills on time. i would just lastly say, imagine if the president of the united states, who we just had the privilege of meeting with, said to the house republicans that he was going to veto the debt ceiling bill.

that he was going to refuse to pay the nation's bills on time unless the house republicans adopted his budget or adopted his jobs plan. you all know they would say the president had lost his mind. but that's exactly what house republicans are continuing to try to do, even as the clock ticks down toward default. >> [inaudible] >> because i believe and what we're all saying is that in the united states senate reason will prevail once they recognize that the house republican proposal is not going to go anywhere at the end of the day. >> if i may on that subject. i do believe that there are two possibilities here. one, it passes, goes to the senate and then they send something back. or it doesn't pass. i don't think -- i think it's a little frivolous, more than frivolous, reckless, to put a bill on the floor like that when the markets are watching what's happening here. but nonetheless maybe the speaker needs to have -- let them sew their oats or whatever the expression happens to be, and once they've had that opportunity, then sanity will prevail.

and then, then perhaps we can take up the senate bill right away and send that over or the senate can act and send it back. but he has to give his folks one last chance to resist. that's unfortunate because the time is ticking and it takes a while to gear up the full faith and credit -- you know, to continue the full faith and credit as well as to restore confidence that may be ebbing because the clock is ticking. >> [inaudible] >> can you explain the urgency, given the fact that some republicans suggested this is an artificial deadline? what should americans be bracing for when they wake up on october 17? they may not witness changes overnight. >> please. i mean, we're talking about something so catastrophic, already the rating agencies are saying what will happen to our credit rating. if you are a businessman, perhaps you are a small businessman, and under the

affordable care act you can be self-employed, and -- or have -- start your own business and the rest, but in any event, would you decide to have your lender charge you more interest? that would be stupid. this would be stupid. i don't believe -- and why have confidence is i just have a little more confidence in my colleagues that they would understand that this is a -- you can shut down government and that's a bad thing and you can have a shutdown for 15 days as it has been and that's a bad thing. but you undermine the full faith and credit of the united states of america, that's a very hard thing to get back. and so it does have major consequences and, and you see what happened to the market when they reneged on tarp. it went down 775 points and that one, just as the republicans were not voting for it. so again, it's sanity. i have confidence and i'm optimistic because i believe that at the end of the day they will do the right thing, even if they have to have -- do contortions to get to that

place. that's unfortunate because it doesn't inspire confidence but if that's how they have to get there, that's a path. >> did the president ask you to do anything specific, or for any specific strategy that you would buy into and did the issue of postponing the medical device tax come up? >> i'm not likely to have a conversation dish mean, unless you promise not to tell anyone, about what transpired in the president's -- in the oval office. but some of my colleagues may have something they want to say about -- >> no. not on that question.

>> i want to say that we're very proud of our leadership. i hope you saw them all on tv on saturday with that line of people going in there to sign the petition to open government, which was historic and the signatures that we have on letters to have a clean lifting of the debt ceiling, we have a very unified caucus thanks to our leadership, including, you heard from mr. clyburn and mr. van hollen, the chair of our caucus, mr. becerra, vice chair joe crowley behind me here, and the chair of our dccc, mr. israel, from a number of new yorkers here, a number of californians, a number of marylanders. in any event, we're proud of our caucus and we're proud of our president. but he has said no negotiations on the full faith and credit of the united states of america. let's go to the budget take to negotiate the rest. -- table to negotiate the rest. >> it sounds like in the end you're trusting john bain already do the right thing and put -- boehner will in your mind do the right thing and put a clean c.r. on the floor. you're trusting john boehner to not let the country default.

>> i don't know what the sequencing of it but yes. i don't know what the order will be, but yes. >> do you think there will be a vote tonight to reopen the government and avoid default? >> the bill that they're talking about right now is a bill to default. make no mistake. the bill that the republicans are putting on the floor today is a decision to default. now, once they go over that, then we'll see what they send to the floor. thank you all. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> house democratic leaders headed back to capitol hill only the house rules

committee decided not to meet on consideration of the house republican repose -- proposal to anden the government extend the debt ceiling. the houses back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. we are opening up our phone lines to hear what you are -- your thoughts are. -- make sure you mute your television or radio when you call in. we are joined by caitlin, who reals capitol hill for clear politics.com. the headline in your piece this vening, caitlin says -- resolvehink they will

things by thursday? >> that if the multitrillion dollar question we have facing us now that a deal in the house has very much failed. right after republican leaders in the house announced there would be no vote tonight, the majority leader, harry reid, and the minority leader, mitch mcconnell, announced they were talks tog with their resolve the issue. they put the talks on pause what theoday to see house could come up with and what they could pass out of the .ouse procedurally, the hurdles that exist in the senate are different from the house. it is not yet clear how we could get something through by the october 17 deadline. >> what happened? what caused leaders to cancel rules meeting and postpone any consideration of a measure for

the evening echo >> earlier this morning, the speakers laid out a plan to address these two issues. it is similar to what the senate had been working on, extending a continuing resolution through the middle of january and extend the debt ceiling to the middle of february. also, a couple of add-ons, addressing health care subsidies andmembers of congress other ornamental measures. it was clear after the conference meeting that support was not there among members. more on spending cuts, and addressing the deficit. addressing the debt. a little more on health care as it pertained to and other ornamental measures the cg resolution. members had mixed feelings and throughout the day, the team was .rying to left for the vote they were always cautiously optimistic.

it turned out support was not really there. one republican member described no deal is better than a bad deal. , the seems the action movement, is now to the senate side. discussion is underway between harry reid and mitch mcconnell. part of the senate plan being reported is the establishment of this committee to work out budget issues. assuming some sort of senate land passes, what would that entail? >> the house has talked about this before and the senate, as well. from each members party in each chamber to meet plan, a about a larger larger and longer-term budget ton which included changes entitlement programs, scanning reductions, addressing sequester

cuts established into law earlier and another round of which goes into effect beginning in the middle of january. the -- those are things we knewd discussion on but the deadline on continuing resolutions had artie passed and the deadlines and the debt ceiling was coming up quickly and that was not -- not enough time to get the deal they wanted. >> caitlin covers capitol hill and politics for realclear politics takes.com. realclearpolitics.com. we will open up our phone line. as we review some of the events today related to the government shutdown and the efforts on both sides of capitol hill to come up with a plan to deal with it. .et's hear first from linda

go ahead. >> i would like to make a few points. first of all, i do not think they have the capability to solve anything, either democrats or republicans. basedole problem is not on democrats or republicans, but on greed. the first point i would like to make is it permeates our society. says theyte america cannot pay employees for health care, publicans go along with that. they say it is too costly. the ceo health care system where make $6 million a year at a nonprofit organization, out of our tax dollars and contributions to pay his salary. one example of the basic problem in this country. the bottom 50% of health wellness in this country compared to the rest of the world. they think we have the best health care system and we reject change. let me tell you what i know

about a friend who is 85 years old. a hip a hip -- she had replacement in england. she did not have to wait. she felt. she went to the hospital. they gave her a hip replacement and it was successful. they sent a nurse to her house every day. came and safety-proved her home so she would not fall again, put in a walk with no her fromrevent falling, and she did not pay a dime. live in fear of change and in a corrupt and broken system. it is due to greed. if we never look at that, nothing will ever change. i want to make one more point. , they haved senate health care, and none of the

rest of us have those. people do not have that. why not? our forefathers never meant, ane rest of us have those. people do not have that. why not? our forefathers never meant, in thesenstitution, for people to come in and stay in office year upon year and grow rich and have the best of everything while the rest of the country suffers. , if we could have term limits and voluntary service, what it was supposed to be originally, we might actually see people in office care about something other than themselves. i agree with the caller who we should get a petition together of the american people and impeach them all. >> thank you for being part of the conversation this evening. just to catch up on the plans, both of these are short-term plans as proposed by senate leaders and house republican leaders. the house plan would extend the remit funding through december 15. it would also extend the debt limit through february 7. it would provide -- eliminate

health insurance subsidies for members of congress and their staff. the bitter amendment was added to the republican proposal and it would restrict the secretary of treasury from taking extraordinary measures to manage the debt and also, the debt ceiling. at the senate, their proposal would extend government funding through january 15, the debt ceiling through february 7. if you arendate getting a health care subsidy, you have to have income verification. we talked with caitlin about it, handleup a committee to budget negotiations on a wide range of issues. surprise, arizona, next up, and

democratic color, robert. hello. >> i agree with a lot of what linda said. too bad we all cannot get hip replacements. i am primarily calling because these people who want to save this country, handle budget negotiations on a wide range of issues. surprise, arizona, next up, an't of article oneix of our constitution that says, we are no longer -- we will not pay the representatives when there is a government shutdown? that is a simple thing to do. another thing, i would like to senatort and tell to be ait is supposed secret conversation. you do not do that openly on the senate floor. the last point i would like to we have a president who will go down in history as one of the great president because he is brilliant and he is a black man and he is trying to do what is right, and he is being

dragged down by a republican party that does not make sense. another thing is the affordable care act is just what it is. it is affordable. that is the key word. and getpeople go out some affordable care. let me tell you about greed. when i go to a doctor's office and he says something like i will not be able to take medicare patients if the obama i have to remind him it is the affordable care act -- >> do you have a doctor that told you that? >> yes. i did. am not going to repeat the guys name. people are being told this. kind of fear tactic. i am a veteran. i was in the navy for 33 years. i retired. i have my pension.

i get medicare. i get social security. i am a happy son of a gun. in people being dragged down by this republican party. to ours move on republican line. hello. >> yes. i am tired of hearing about republicans and democrat problems. it seems to me like all of them are still getting paychecks. all of them are not worried from where food will come to feed their family and get a roof over their head. they have a paycheck coming in. we, the american people, low income people, threw them out and cared. they only care about themselves than anybody else. they say, because we have a

black president, -- republican say, it is not that. the only thing it is is everybody wants their way and they really do not care about the american people. that is pretty sad. thank you. >> thanks for your call. a tweak here. says the senate deal coming together will not be filed tonight -- the senate is still in the session as of 9:30 eastern. a little unusual for the senate be in session this late at night and one of our producers is indicating it is possible we will hear from majority leader harry reid. as always, you can follow the senate on c-span two. life coverage of the senate. to atlanta. sheila on the democrats line. >> i am a single mom. looking at this whole government

should situation, it is sad .ecause my son, he is seven he has autism. i needed help from the government on a temporary basis. need it on a temporary basis, this happened. i voted for obama. for me not to see him speak on be facenels, letting us to face on television, giving his views, i think they are kind of letting a lot of people down. i have -- my health is failing. when this thing came out about getting online to get obamacare, i have gone on so many times and could not even get on. my son has autism. it has been hard. really hard.

i see something on tv the other day that said you have to save up for a month or two months. we are not in a position to do that. the way our government is going, we put it out there to save up as much as you can. >> in all of this, you would like to see more of the situation.n the >> yes. i have been following this and have not seen the man. i am african american. give someone else another shot. this is not fair. >> more of your calls coming up. reaction on twitter. here is one from jackie. .he says, shut it down maybe people will get away from the government codependency. tim asks why the two parties have to argue about whose fault it is. grow up and fix the problem. from tony, forcing people to buy

a product is insane but upholding our constitution is wrong. -- , "i do not hate obama wee of those coming up as look at some of the events today related to the government shutdown and the efforts on capitol hill to reopen the government and deal with the pending debt ceiling on october 17. earlier today at the world more held anorrill, a group event to discuss the impact of the government shutdown on military families and veterans. this is 25 minutes.

>> good morning's veterans here and the millions of veterans everywhere. i am the national executive the jewish for veterans -- were veterans of the usa. the military coalition, this is our press conference. 33 organizations, military and veterans organizations. we represent active duty. retired. veterans, dependence, and survivors. military coalition chairman, are bobesented by colonel norton of the military officers

association, representing our chairman. fromd me, representatives the military coalition. they have my back. inike the administration congress, which does not. , the government is shut down. military readiness is eroding. --erans fear they will not disabled veterans fear they will not get their checks. dependents and survivors have that worry. that should not be. you will hear from our expert personnel about the military wetdown, its effects, and call on the administration and congress to end the shutdown. our veterans served this country. we need the country to serve our veterans and military personnel, their dependents and survivors. i thank you, one and all, for

being with this. i think my colleagues and the coalition for the great work they do and i will be followed by morgan brown from the air force sergeants association. >> good morning. thank you for being here. with the government shutdown, uniformed services cannot fully maintain the upkeep and training our military readiness relies upon. many services that support the men and women in uniform remain closed and this profoundly affects the country's military readiness. a uniform that wears in service of their country is back at work. that being the men and women the commission corps and the u.s. public health service. their pay remains in jeopardy.

even though the bulk of the military is still at work funding for government equipment, materials, supplies, and other items they need, it has not been appropriated. tos lapse in appropriations manages the effectiveness of at a critical time while our nation remains in work. we are still at work. emergency funding that supports -- supports commanders on the ground, it also remains unavailable and service leaders report that further curtailing, training for later a plane units, and activity that had already been reduced, thanks to sequestration and spending cuts. tovice members transferring and overseas speak of problems with housing allowances not being started and temporary lodging allowances not eating hate. i would be remiss if i did not mention the fact military tuition assistance programs have been suspended and with a

continued set -- shutdown and the likelihood a post she and best boson 11 g.i. bill pays debt payments would also be suspended, that would pose a problem for men and women in uniform. our most important asset are our people. the shutdown has raised significant morel concerns as thethe military force does its best to operate despite additional stressors. this has commanders and service members very worried. i stress with each passing day of the shutdown, the readiness of our fighting force becomes more at risk. as the forcethose serving our nation de better. our mission test message is simple. it is time to sit -- to end the shutdown. here is major general andrew davis, a board member of the military coalition and executive director director of the reserve officers association, to speak you on how the shutdown is affecting reserve component. thank you.

[applause] >> the morning. marine corps, executive director of the reserve officers association of the united its. despite the reserve and guard making up nearly half of the millionense force, 1.1 servicemen and women, reserve component training has been canceled. unwisely canceled. congress has overlooked the need to pay these citizen soldiers for their in active drill training. we can to drill training. the pentagon has made a policy decision that excludes them from active service, even when the pay our military act authorizes active duty orders.

suggest the pentagon's motivation or the peer the policy they published is out of date with the realities of our nation's defense needs. thetration grows amongst reserve component population that they are unable to fulfill their missing -- mission. in the last 12 years, the reserve and guard has been mobilized more than 883,000 times. 330,000 of them more than once. these men and women also responded to help fellow citizens through ecological disasters such as hurricanes, flooding, and oil spill. 50,000 reserve and guardsmen are activated, taking the same risks as active-duty service members. after returning from war or arester, they see they again being overlooked, making

them feel they are second flat -- second class warriors. this federal government shutdown proves to them they are right. not likely they will be able to make up lost training , unlike theome furloughed civilian employees who will likely get retro pay. our military readiness is being impaired. reserve readiness is a perishable commodity. 1.1 million people in the offended ate are how they are being treated. not to be overlooked is the rest of the uniformed services, public health service, and the core that was totally left out of the military act. these groups sent individuals into war zones but were totally forgotten. it is time to end the government shutdown now. i would like to introduce kathleen of the national

military families association. >> good morning. i am the government relations director for the national military family is association and a proud military family member. military families have shown courage and resilience in the past decade of four and in past conflicts. it is harder for them to show the same strength and faced withwhen uncertainties caused by the government shutdown. while we are grateful for the on the pay our military act, the overall security of our nation cannot be addressed in a piecemeal fashion. last week, we had families of the fallen relying on donations from gracias chatter greece to bury their dead until legislation was passed. today, military families and survivors still face uncertainty and financial

difficulties. survivors do not know if they will receive payment at the end of the month. families who have used the bill to pay for the education of their children do not know if they will be able to pay tuition for the rest of the semester. the absence of a defense appropriations bill, along with budget cuts and sequestration, poses a threat to the long-term readiness of service members and family as training has been curtailed, moves have been postponed or canceled, and important contrast cannot be executed. military families, like other american families, rely on other programs and services provided by the federal government. wic program of the will affect many young military families who rely on the assistance. public schools educating large numbers of military children, faith the loss of much needed

impact will affect many young military families who rely on the assistance. public schools educating large numbers of military children, faith the loss of much needed impact funds if the shutdown continues. service members continue to do and fight onloy behalf of the nation. they need to know the programs and the services they rely on it will be available to ensure the readiness. a permanent fix, not the band-aid of budget deals. the national military family association, along with the military coalition ask to pass the appropriation bills, and the government shutdown, and show military families and survivors that they continue to have the nation's support. i am pleased to introduce our next speaker from the american legion. [applause] >> good morning, everyone. i am here on behalf of the national commander, dan dillinger, who is currently our national headquarters in

annapolis and will also be hosting a news conference later today. on behalf of the 2.4 million members of the american legion. tois difficult for us understand why veterans are first on the list of spending sacrifices in congress fails to compromise on managing our budget. reassured by the president and members of congress that the budget will not be balanced on the backs of veterans, and here we are today. it seems impossible to believe now that millions of men and women transitioning or have a -- who are or have transitioned to bend on charity for their very existence before the country have fought to defend gets around to caring for them due to the government shutdown and political bidder -- bickering. most of our veterans will seek employment and training in the open employment market. others will be eager to return to college or take vocational training instead of a job.

with this current situation, there will be no effort by any agency to assist the service members were veterans with training on any level if the shutdown continues. these men and women have been exposed to hardships and suffering during military service, making it difficult to transition to civilian life. asking them to attempt to move with an employment rate exceeding 20% in some areas, is even more difficult. asking them to do so during a government shutdown of the department and laborers training programs, the transition assistance program, homeless veterans reintegration program, and the federal administration reform -- enforcement, it is outrageous and a disgrace to all those who have served. are not giving anything to veterans. we are making a token payment on a debt we owe them and it takes the form of opportunity.

just trying to give them the opportunity to get back to a place where they can enjoy the same freedom of opportunity they have reserved for us. due to service and sacrifice. on behalf of the american legion commander, i express thanks and appreciation to fell ill -- fellow colleagues standing with us today. we hope members of congress can work together to end a government shutdown. with that, i introduce you to gary augustine. >> thank you. i am here on behalf of of the 1.2 members of the disabled veterans. tothank you for being here hear our concerns about the government shutdown. unless the stale mutt -- stalemate is resolved by the end of october, 4 million veterans may not receive disability compensation, pension, in

november. many -- for many, they may be the only source of income. the shutdown is already directly affecting veterans. , the v.a. was adjudicating more than 100,000 claims per month. as ea employees continue to be furloughed, the ability to adjudicate -- adjudicate claims diminishes and the backlog begin to increase. as monthly compensation and pension payments exist, many wounded veterans will not pay their mortgage, their rents, orlity bills, car payments, even provide food for their families. more than 350,000 survivors who may have lost their family breadwinner will not receive benefits, which may be the only income they have. students will not have benefits paid, which they need for tuition, books, rent, or even food. funded v.a. research

projects will be put on hold in every v.a. academic health center affecting the future health of millions of veterans and disrupting the work of thousand -- thousands of clinicians working funded v.a. h projects on research to try to restore veterans wounded in iraq and afghanistan. our message to the president and congress, defaulting on paying veterans options is not an -- it is not an option. this is a time to fulfill promises to the men and women who served. , he week, joseph johnson sent a letter to the senate and the u.s. house of representative's, expressing outrage over partisan politics are venting the federal government from honoring our sacred obligations to our nation's heroes. andommanded the president congress reach an agreement to fully fund all federal programs, services, and benefits, that support or indirectly

america's heroes, especially those injured due to service. our elected officials must understand playing politics with veterans is not acceptable. it is also calling for congress to pass legislation to extend advance appropriations to all v.a. funding, not just health care, so that veterans continue to receive all the veterans that all the services they have earned. even during budget stalemates and government shutdowns, advanced appropriations for v.a. services have not been suspended during the shutdown. we want the same protection

against budget stalemates extended through the entire v8 budget. -- v.a. budget. we remain on the job and have set up alternative sites to continue providing benefit counseling and claims assistance to veterans and their families. we will not stand idly by while out -- while our nations injured veterans suffer because of partisan politics. veterans are a national priority. it is time our government treat them as one. the federal government must find a way to work together and and the shutdownwe want the same prn against budget stalemates extended through the entire v8 budget. -- v.a. budget. we remain on the job and have set up alternative sites as veta way to protect our country when they were the uniform of the u.s. military. thank you very much. i would like to introduce my good friend. [applause] >> i am with the veterans of foreign wars. along with my colleagues, we are here to represent all veterans, all service members, all survivors, all family members, who do not have a voice on their own. that is why we have of -- an organization to support them. of the shutdown and congress has to do its work piecemeal will not work. putting it together it little by little will not solve the problem for veterans. from the time they join the service to the time we lay them to rest, there are benefits that

are suffering. students running to join the military will suffer. those payments will not go out. benefits if this continues, it will reduce the amount of determines the national senate staff cemetery administration will be able to do. my friends already spoke to many of the issues and impact. we need to end the back -- the backlog and solve sequestration. sequestration will affect dod readiness. there is no guarantee the v.a. will be exempt on the next round of sequestration. the secretary has spoken to this. we need to step forward and demand congress work and do a budget of passing , theolving the problem

self-inflicted wound of sequestration. it is time to take the barriers for a you down, not little while, not as a political stunt, but forever. the only way we can do that is with a budget. with that, i would like to introduce all -- paul. [applause] >> good morning. i am the ceo and founder of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america. we are proud to be here today to stand alongside our butter -- brothers and sisters. this is an unprecedented showing of strength. 33 national veterans and military family supporting associations are here today since -- to send a message to the president and congress. my grandfather served in the south pacific for three years and he never lived to see this memorial but he would be proud of what we are doing today. in allty that exists backgrounds. quite frankly, it is usually --

unity we do not see in washington. input the mission first combat. we put the country first. that is what you need to do now. put the country first and and the shutdown. thousands of members across the country are in school right now, utilizing the g.i. bill. they are doing the right thing. they served overseas. they came home. i now want to start a new life. they do not know if they will november 1 to continue school and they do not know if disability checks are coming in just a few days. that is ridiculous. that is shameful and outrageous. it needs to stop. seen demand for our education support program increase by 500%. when the government shuts down, our veterans still need support and they come to these groups for it. the overflow has to go somewhere. it is coming to us. we want to send the message loud and clear now is the time. in the army, values mean

everything to us. loyalty, duty, respect, service, honor, integrity, personal courage. that is what these people stand for and that is what the country stand for. that is what we need our politicians to stand for now. and the shutdown. i will turn it over. i just want to thank her began andyour leadership steadfast support for all our nations support for families. i will turn it back over. [applause] >> ladies and the speakers you have heard today and the group behind me, represent 10 million people. not just people. inmillion who have served our nation's armed forces. keep that in mind, please. 10 million who have served and now need your support and the support of the administration and congress.

i want to welcome. the crowd has grown. i want to welcome the veterans who have joined us and thank each of you for your service to our country and for being here today. not take questions from the podium, but people are available to take questions after we close. he for i close, i want to thank i ava, paul, the chief executive officer, tom tarantino, and kate, who put this together and did the heavy lifting. let's think i ava. not take questions from the podium, but[applause] , mr. speaker, members of congress, let's take care of military people and veterans. thank you, all. [applause]

>> the gathering of veterans and military organizations, the military coalition earlier today at the world war ii memorial, talking about the impact of the government shutdown, now 15 days old, on military families and veterans. this evening in the nation's capital a light on the capitol dome, meaning the senate is still in session at nearly 10:00 eastern tonight. theref that is because is discussion on continuing as a live look on the senate floor, from what we understand, a phone call that has gone on for 3.5 or four hours or so. there is discussion continuing to resolve the reopening of the government and the pending debt ceiling. here is a headline from politico this evening. senate leaders finalizing deal, the headline on the story, they write harry leader and the majority leader and mitch mcconnell are finalizing a deal to avert a debt default to open

the government, capping a day that had washington bracing for economic crisis of its own making. ,he deal is essentially done the two leaders that have finished drafting the language. the new york times writes the stalling onblican their own proposal and not going forward, the news came as the treasury department said it had only about 35 billion dollars in cash on hand. it expects to run out of extraordinary measures to keep paying all of the government bills on tuesday, at which point on outgoing payments, it might exceed the cash, plus any revenues on days going forward as the united states nears default, investors have demanded more compensation for lending on yields on short-term , the highest level in years. we will take you to a small business committee hearing on the impact of small business,

the impact of the government shutdown. here is a piece from the wall street journal about small business loans. government shutdown creates headaches for borrowers and lenders. it is throwing a wrench in the efforts by some small businesses to get government- backed loans. lenders said they would continue to process and submit loans, but borrowers will have to wait for approval. others are facing shutdown related tapir work snafus slowing loan funding. i heard from a number of small business owners today. here is part of that hearing with the north dakota senator. >> i have heard some people in washington describe the government shutdown as a pinprick to the economy. i did not hear that today from

any of you. when any of you like to comment underscore that what is happening is a great deal more than a pinprick? how would you describe what is happening to you, if it is not a pinprick? >> i would be happy to address that. the tourism industry is a major driver in 44 of the 50 states. the u.s.nomic driver, travel association released a new analysis that shows that is costing this travel industry $152 million per day, and that is growing quickly, affecting as many as 450,000 americans who have jobs in this industry. the national tourism association did a quick survey after it started and showed that there were effects in all but four of

the states, by their 3000 members. are dramatic,cts immediate, and unrecoverable. immediately, this type of man-made crisis creates immediate effects for small businesses and all their employees. term effectses long- which everybody has talked to hear, that can even further depress the travel market, going to the future, which is our number one services export. number of emerging markets, such as china and brazil, that are increasingly coming to america. we have finally started a brand usa program. it is about two years old. it is just starting to make an effect. term,will have long- lasting, negative effects on all of those markets, and certainly all of the thousands of small businesses that are part of this industry. >> mr. lay, how would you

describe it? >> it is definitely not a pinprick. what is important to convey as a small business owner is, when you go and borrow large sums of money, you put up and collateralize everything you own in the world. everything i have worked for my entire life is behind that loan. with the uncertainty that is being created right now, if interest rates go up one percent on the size loan that i am dealing with, over the life of my alone, that is $76,000. that is an employee. losing my be me house. that is just one percentage point. we go through this came in washington. every time we talk about raising the debt ceiling, we argue about it. it is ridiculous. we have an immediate impact on our ability to not lose what we

put forth an risk. in my situation right now, i had an excellent program to finance. if the interest rates go up two percent, i may be -- may not be able to do it anymore. to get mr. paul, and then we will ask some questions. >> i am at ground zero in terms of the government shutdown, being right here in the heart of the d.c. and metropolitan area. in the newspaper yesterday, large defense contractors announced they were going to reduce their upcoming layoff to 5000 people. these people are not going to get back pay once they are gone. they are not going to have money to spend on day care, on entertainment. all of that trickles down to main street businesses. the conversation has been going on for months about the shutdown, the

problems, the debt ceiling. ceo's have been making quiet cutbacks. they have been making layoffs. they have been making for lowe's. our economy has been suffering for months in this area. furhey have been making loughs. not buyingesses are equipment to expand. they are not going to create jobs. we think this is much bigger than a small pinprick. we think it is a very major problem. >> mr. paul? >> thank you. i do not believe it is a pinprick. i think it is the beginning of a hemorrhage. i think what we have experienced over the past couple of weeks, the number of phone calls the bank has received from hundreds -- many of our borrowers making sure they have their lines of credit available. in the bankulted making sure that we have our own liquidity issues that are

available to us to continue to fund these lines of credit. i think if you fast-forward this, if we should get this passed through february, what is going to happen between now and february i think is going to be equally ugly to what has happened the past couple of weeks. the consumer is going to be sitting and saying, we are not going to go out to dinner. we are not going to the movies. we are not going to buy a house. sales will be dramatically impacted. people over the next three months will be so paranoid about what is going to happen. it is an embarrassment to this country. the trickle-down effect has yet to be felt. i think the economy finally starting to get on its feet will be devastated as a result of kicking the can down the road. >> let me get the other three of you. about the pinprick, stay on that. some people around here are saying, we will pay the federal workers back pay, and that will supposedly solve the problem, or

make the problem go away. talk about that as well. i think that is missing a big point. some of your small businesses are not going to be in that payback discussion. i do not think they are included in that. ms. smith, is that what you are hearing? you have to lean into your microphone, please. >> i am hearing that as well. and yes, it is more than a pinprick. we have companies decreasing and revenues. we have many small businesses that may have to close their doors. are thesinesses -- we lifeline of the economy and the key to recovery. yes, it is definitely more than a pinprick. >> i am going to go to the others for question soon. >> i will agree it is more than a pinprick, unless it is a very large pan. he majority of the employment in

this country is by small businesses, and the people we have around this table, and like many of the clients we have at the bank. two thirds of the economy is consumer driven. it was mentioned a moment ago about the uncertainty creating problems with that part of the economy, and i believe that israel. i believe that -- i believe that , not a and large pinprick. your point, small businesses will not be paid for the work we have lost now. that is lost revenue. that is going away. that will not return. work,n as we go back to those contracts will not be modified. contracts have deliverables that are time-based. that further delays the process, because we have to get new contracts. that will not be paid. company, then 8a

time that is lost is lost. you would not get that changed. the time is not coming back. if we look at the concept of a pinprick, when we had to lay youle off, you have to know have a family. i know about the kids of the people we had to lay off. these are people that came to our corporate picnic. that is not a pinprick. you are talking about people who might have to go on assistance of a government they do not trust anymore. they lose confidence in small businesses. that is not a pinprick. credit is based on the creditworthiness of myself and my partners. everything i have has been put into this business. business,t of everything i am working for goes away immediately. it is not a pinprick. >> and nobody is going to

reimburse you for this. >> there is no bill for this at all. >> we are talking not only about the shutdown, but we are also talking about this uncertainty about the debt limit. interest rates affect all of you. on top of hearing it is a pinprick, i am sure you also heard there are a number of amateur economists out there, who have been telling us all that the debt limit can be managed by simply paying our interest. we do not need to worry about it. we recently had a hearing in the banking committee, where we heard from realtors, who told us they believe that when we miss this default deadline, home mortgages will go up at least one percent. already seeing our treasuries being discounted. my question is to all of you. discussion about

what the debt limit means, and this constant uncertainty. i really would appreciate of you haveot referenced about only going out to february, as opposed to looking at a long-term deal. i would encourage -- it would encourage us to look at something longer, to give you the certainty you need. anyone who wants to comment on the debt limit, i would appreciate that. a world that we are in where things are venture backed, uncertainty is what we sign up for, in a sense. the full faith and credit of the u.s. government is something we do not have to be uncertain about. that investors make, the decisions the capital markets make, reflect on what startups get founded.

the reflect on whether they happen in this country or somewhere else, where there is more confidence. especially when it is a manufactured crisis leading into a manufactured crisis, there are certain things we can't control. it is somewhat callous to call it a pinprick to the people who are directly affected, whether that means they are on government assistance and cannot be part of the economy because they do not have an income anymore, or whether they get laid off from their job. all the small businesses are directly affected by the products other small businesses are producing. there really is this domino effect. it is not just one business shutting down. it is other businesses down the chain. my comments are more related to the short-term. the short fix for companies like mine. we just got a very large contract in october. it is expected that we will higher a lot of people, which is

great for the economy. but do i have the confidence that in three months i am not going to be shut down? what happens to my business, that i have worked over the last 16 years to grow? it is hiring good people. we hire doctors, nurses, analysts. we have a lot of competition for that talent. i am faced with having to hire, which is a really good problem. on the other hand, how are we supposed to handle that? in three months, we have to let them go. >> just for the record, what would you pay some of your medical professionals, the range of what you are offering people in that contract? >> our average salary for our nursing staff, we have nurses across the country, is around $70,000, average salary. >> you can see all of that

hearing later in our program schedule, and online any time in our video library. both the house and senate will be back in tomorrow. the senate has just gaveled out. they will return tomorrow at noon eastern. follow that and the house here on c-span. at noon, legislative work. that work is to be determined, as the house finished the day to day not moving forward on the republican plan to reopen the government and extend the debt ceiling. we are opening up our phones for a couple more minutes to hear from you on this 15th day of the government shutdown, and the debt ceiling looming. the numbers are on your screen.

first, a little political news. special election in massachusetts for senator ed markey's seat, the fifth congressional district of massachusetts, the primary is this evening. state senator kathryn clark, the democrat, and attorney frank addivinola when their primaries. an article posted a short while ago. status update in where things stand. after a day of intrigue, the house budget bill is blocked by conservatives. the speaker assembled his restive troops.

that is where we stand on the house side of things, with negotiations moving over to the senate, and a possible measure in development. possibly we will hear about it early tomorrow. .e go to frostburg maryland our democrats line. >> i am calling about several things. finally getting through. things with what is going on with these problems

with the shutdown, etc., and health care. i think there are some dots that can be connect did. there are certain strategies being used that we can see through. some of these groups like the tea party republicans are looking, not only now, but going for the future -- they were not election,op his first and not able to stop the term he had. even to have him get back in. i think now they are trying to muddy the water as much as possible, because they are looking to the future. people do seem to like this administration. they are afraid that more minorities, and maybe even women, will be coming into the presidential runnings, and get into office.

really think the long-term strategy going on there, as well as midterms -- i think a lot of people who vote and do not keep up with politics a lot -- not termi do -- but the midterm elections, a lot of people skip over those. they are not sure what term you are talking about, and do not go out to vote. that is how we got some of the people that we have now. politicians and need to be more specific about that. one of the things -- a couple here. -- if allthat we have these people with all the billions would go ahead and put in their fair share, as we call it, we could get rid of all of this and not have all of this turmoil. say they do not want to leave all this debt to our children.

let us cut out all the programs we have. well, they are going to leave the money to their children, and their children are not going to pay it either, unless we do something with tax. one last thing. this term "middle class," that the president uses so often -- i would like to get this message to him as well as to others. the word class has some negative connotations anyway. why can't you use middle income, upper income? he always says, i am working for the middle class. we know what he means. but the term needs to be rethought. basically, those are some of the thoughts i have about what is going on there, especially the strategy, looking to the future. we do not want any more black or other minority presidents. youe are glad to hear from this evening, perhaps looking ahead to what is next on his

political agenda. tweets that the president will push immigration after the fiscal crisis is over. johnson, oak olive, florida, on the other's line. on the othersida, line. know why they can put the insurance off for one year, instead of damaging the whole complete country like they are, and taking all of the military people support and help. obamacare for one year cost more than that? >> as it stands now, the house republican proposal, the only element dealing with obamacare in the house republican proposal would eliminate the employer subsidies for members of congress, the president, vice president, and cabinet. added in there was the language about the future amendment -- .itter amendment

the senate proposal would require income verification for the health care subsidy. is in ohio, on our republican mind. >> i would like for the congress, all of them, to give up their paychecks until this is over. last time, they had to give up their paychecks. they signed everything really fast. ourrdless of what color president is, it does not matter. nobody cares. you know? it does not matter. it is not race. let them give up their money. see how they like it. >> thanks, linda. twitter, a comment. we need to set term limits on our senate and our congress. perhaps hitting ahead of the story. might make a good "washington

journal" question. the speaker of the house does not need to be a member of congress. who would be the best? on our democrats line, go ahead. >> good evening. the other thing i wanted to say is, i have listened and listened. i am a vietnam veteran. a retired u.s. marine. i am severely disabled. i would like to have just one person say, even if it is me -- in the past, i have always voted because i felt it was my obligation and my duty. but i know that the next vote,on, not only will i but i will campaign as hard as i .an campaign because the main thing that needs to be done now is, anyone in the congress and senate, as of this moment,, election, they

all need to be sent home for good. bicker. do is fight and when a decent bill does come before the house or the senate to vote on it, they tacked a bunch of pork on it. for $10 million, by the time the port is added to it, it is $200 million. it is no wonder we are in a deficit in this country. id the other thing that dislike so much, but started to here in west virginia, and i do not know whether it has been in other places or not -- now, they are naming highways after politicians. i do not see highways out there named after the military people

that laid down their lives for this country. that is just flat wrong. they are hired employees, the politicians. think we should go around and give them favoritism. naming stuff after them is just wrong. >> thanks for being with us. jerry is in michigan, on the others line. >> thanks for having me on. >> i am on social security and disability. i wonder how the members in washington would feel if they did not get paid if this does not get past. >> are you concerned or benefits would run out if the government continues to be shut down? have you heard anything about that?

iti am just saying, if defaults, nobody is going to get their social security checks. how did they expect people to pay their bills? >> thank you for being with us this evening. in ohio -- marilyn is in ohio on the republican line. >> hello. thank you for taking my call. i would like to express my ,oncern that the republicans and especially the conservatives , hold the line. we have not yet reached a point of realizing what our debt is doing to not only this generation, but future generations. effortsd them in their to cut spending. we have not touched the tip of the iceberg. i think any homemaker, any businessman, if they were given a red hen with power, could go

into the halls of congress. could/and/, cut out our government support -- could slash and slah. cut out government support for people from overseas coming over to study. we are talking money that is not necessary to be spent. it is on the backs of this generation, and the generations to come. the s.e.c., the security and exchange commission. he could do an investigation into how many tea party members or other members of congress have them on the stock market dropping, you know? maybe even the coke brothers -- koch brothers.

i would also like to say to isator vitter that if he going to do this to the government employees, the staff members and the congress. it -- which iich -- it wouldd pass prohibit any employer from offering insurance for their .mployees what is the difference? that is what really happens. big employers have benefits like that so they can keep good employees. i do not think it is right for him to take away something that has been negotiated, just like a big employer, you know? he wants to try to hurt people that are already hurting. there are people who do not have money for food. theirare people losing house, their cars.

how many people do you have to hurt until you finally decide -- go ahead and pass a clean cr. go ahead and negotiate. that is what the democrats want to do. i do not see any reason that cannot happen. >> we will have to wait until tomorrow to see if the amendment language taking away the subsidies remains in the house proposal, and if it is at all addressed by the senate. we'll find out tomorrow for sure. the house and senate are back. the senate at noon eastern. the house, 10:00 a.m. eastern. the displayed of business at noon eastern. that will be here on c-span. at 7:00start as usual a.m. with "washington journal." we will be joined by tim ryan of ohio. potentialar about the impact of the looming debt ceiling on the markets and business.

all of them tomorrow morning on washington journal, starting live at 7:00 a.m. eastern. another discussion on the impact of the government shutdown, now 15 days old, going today 16. nationalrsation on the parks. among those participating, republican rob bishop of utah. [applause] you for coming today to discuss the closing of the american monument. washington, the purpose was nourishing and perpetuating the spirit of freedom and patriotism in our country. for james madison, these places

were precious to the nation as the memorials of its origin and early transactions. jefferson'st surveyor of public buildings, these places represented the tranquility, the prosperity, and the happiness of american government. offering sage advice very early on, george washington cautioned us from politicizing these places that represented ideas higher than daily politics. direction --t the the direction of the memorial to the american revolution, in 1795. the event to which it is dedicated, the emblems to which it is composed, and the effect it is meant to produce how all an intimate relationship to the right and happiness of the people. throughe commenced not

the organ of government as a political act, but in a mode which will best testify to sentiments which spontaneously glow in the breasts of republican citizens. how far we have come, if you have observed what has gone on this month. there have been 17 partial government shutdowns since 1977. if history is any guide, there will be more in the future. so that is nothing new. the arbitrarye and unnecessary actions of the national park service. this month, it closed many memorials, national parks, and other public places, it remained open in previous government shutdowns. far from leaving these monuments open, they have taken actions to barricade them, enforce the barricades, and make life as difficult for american citizens as possible. far from the tranquility and

possibility these places are supposed to represent. one park service employee was quoted as saying, we have been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. we are here today to discuss the purposes of americans monuments, the actions of the national park service during the partial government shutdown, and how those actions conform with the law. we are very honored today to , whocongressman rob bishop serves utah's first congressional district, and he will offer some keynote remarks, and we will turn to our previous panel to speak about not only the history and purposes of america's monument, but the legal ramifications of some of the park service actions. representative bishop served in the house armed services committee and the rules committee, and has continued to

serve on the regulation subcommittee. welcomingn me in representative rob bishop. [applause] >> thank you. i appreciate your kind introduction, and the charity applause. i appreciate that. i am happy to be here, even though it is not wise to talk when you are upset and mad. i have been in that situation the last three weeks. the other day, i was trying to meet with a couple of air force generals. as usual, i was like. if you have to go in the rayburn building, the elevators are slow and crowded. the escalators are far faster to get from the basement to the first floor. except this morning, i realized somebody had messed up, and all the escalators were going down. every one of them. which i thought was a perfect metaphor for congress and this

administration. but i am here to talk about what not only the park service is doing, but the forest service and fish and wildlife. the policies clearly are based on vindictiveness, pettiness, and politicizing situations that took place. the only question is, how high up does the instruction to take this approach go? i feel this is going to be another irs investigation, where every time you turn around, you find out there is a level above it. you has seen what has happened in the world war ii memorial. it is also happening on public lands everywhere throughout this country. you have read about people who are not allowed to visit graves in tennessee, the school bus route closed down, or the in that was serving lunch as the park rangers came in with lights flashing on their cars, and guns drawn. or senior citizens and foreigners that were held basically under armed guard in

yellowstone, forced to take a bus drive where they were not allowed to stop for a bathroom break. when they didn't stop to take pictures of buffalo, they were threatened, saying that photographing was recreating, and they were not allowed to recreate in yellowstone during the close down. a jogger in valley forge was fined $100 for jogging. adc playground in an area that has never seen a park service employee -- they chained and padlocked the playground so that kids could not go on the slides. a park that i always thought was a city park -- a family has been having a picnic there for years. when they went for their 30th anniversary picnic, they were shoved off the grounds before they could put their food down and eat in the park. all these things clearly show that the purpose of public land which is supposedly for memorializing what has happened in history, and providing recreation opportunities, is being placed

in a secondary position, showing there is power and control by certain groups. they claim there are first amendment exceptions. i guess if you are going to protest the world bank or immigration issues, from the same people that allowed the occupy movement to stay on federal land without any fees, but not for cancer research or weddings, or the german-american friendship day which was canceled in the german-american friendship garden. heavens knows what you think would happen if somebody wanted to exercise a second amendment right on public land. in all fairness, for those of you who find this appalling, my question simply has to be, so what? we are living with this every day. this activity is nothing new. we have been doing this for months. when you have a person in an area that decides to stop a legal from going on to grounds because she does not think there

should be commercial activity in her wilderness area, or in washington, where they have expanded a city park and then banned the manual church picnic and fundraiser benefit for veterans because the noise would bother the historic and cultural aspects of the rest of the park, or nevada, where a victim of a murder's body was given up the park service in trying to find it. the family tried to find somebody who would search privately. 15 months later, they were able to raise the money to get the special use permit and insurance the park service insisted on. they found the body within two hours. another air force sergeant who drowned in lake mead, the park service give up. the family had to go to court to get permission to have somebody go in and find the body, which they did in the space of a couple of days. inone park on our border, which the park service wanted to move electronic devices from

point a to point b, on the back of a truck, it took six months to get permission to back up the truck. wanted ar patrol forest area. the forest service agreed. fission while the disagreed. a year and a half later, those paths were not there to help enforce the border. in the grand teton's in which does not denigrate any fishing opportunities, you have areas that were designated by congress as wild and scenic recreation rivers. they have banned any recreation that involves and motor, a paddle, or and or. -- an oar. what is left? when congress makes a comment against the keystone pipeline, saying it could avoid implementations of the park mission, even though the closest

park is 30 miles away from a pipeline, when you have fish and while i finding there is an endangered species that happens only to grow on oil shale, only there, and allows the county to have a mitigation plan, if they by march.ome up unfortunately, this plan only blooms in june and july, and you cannot tell what the plan is until it blooms. they have to have in march a mitigation plan for what they do not know exists. there are no birds at that altitude, but they said they are supposed to. therefore, that becomes a sage grouse habitat. timber mining has been stopped. when the world war ii monument is open again, all of you who live in the east can be happy, but these kind of activities have been going on in the west and will continue to go on in the west, by a department of the interior that is vindictive and petty.

i am pleased mr. cole is going a be here, talking about memorial later on. it is a memorial that has broken probably every rule, concept, and traditional activity. budget.ill over it shows the dysfunction we have of ourain areas government. ,hen the berlin wall came down all of a sudden, everyone realized the idea of centralized , overly bureaucratic government fails. it does not work. everywhere in the world, it was discredited, except in washington, where the idea of centralized your credit government still seems to be the goal. the opposite of that is what our nation was supposedly founded on. and preposition. i apologize. on which our nation was supposedly founded. most people, we talk about federalism, their eyes glaze over.

they think of the essay in high school. federalism allows people to have choices and options in their lives. we have examples of that if we try to venerate that will stop in wisconsin, where the state is managing certain lambs on federal property, even though the federal government told the governor to shut them down -- the governor said, they are still operating. in arizona and utah, the governors stepped up and funded the opening of national parks, so they could keep going. we have a situation in the state of utah called sand flats. blm,ea which was owned by which they admitted they did not have the staff, the manpower, the money, or desire to maintain or regulate. when a near riot broke out, they made a deal with the county, so the county organizes, pays for, and receives royalty from the managing of that recreation area. and it is done brilliantly. we have another in southern

utah, called the coral pink sand dunes. givenderal government has over control and management of the land to the state of utah. it was recently listed as one of the hidden treasures. we can still make this work if we come up with the idea of federalism that allows different options and different choices in different areas, and allows the state to take leadership. we can prove that state forests in idaho produce more revenue and are healthier than the federal forests next-door, simply because that process works. yellowstone was the first national park that was established. the second was in michigan. it was given back to michigan because they could better manage it. as you have seen in the shut down, they can better management. it is not the fact that we have to have -- the federal government has to control everything. time, was in germany last i met somebody working in the german forest service.

she was a preteen when the law came down. her first trip into west berlin from her home in pottstown, she was amazed. she went into a store. all of the stuff that was there to purchase. she went into one grocery store and realized there were five different kinds of sugar she could buy, five different brands. in east germany, you had sugar or you did not. usually the latter. she had five different choices. her first thought was, while. her second thought was, why do i need five choices? in the ideal socialist world, if they provide an adequate quantity of cheap sugar, maybe one source is actually enough. but we all know that does not work in real life. what it simply means is, you need that kind of competition to be able to provide you with what you need. the same thing happens with public land. you need different choices and different options. aboutntly read a book

members of my religion who tried to live in communist east germany. as i was reading it, every last one of the concepts is that the public land policy in communist samegermany is the exact public land policy we have in the united states today. either we are wrong, or they were right. i really do not think it is the latter situation. we partner with state and local governments to open up these areas, to manage these lands. it would be the best thing we could do to actually do this in a functioning, rational, particular way. i am pleased the current secretary of the interior is not a simple -- is not a traditional administrative appointee who has risen through the ranks. she comes from the business world of outdoor recreation, and realizes that if you are going to get something for the public land, it has to be there for

people to use and enjoy. i certainly hope that mindset becomes inculcated within the federal government, because that is the solution to what we need. the purpose of land is for people to enjoy that. if we are not doing that, we are failing. having everything coordinated through one federal agency does not help that situation. if we were serious about opening up our lands for public enjoyment, we would have a partnership between state and federal government, or turn over more of these areas, or people who know what they are doing can be in charge. we would not have the situation we are finding ourselves today. if nothing else, the government shutdown has shown why states are important, why federalism is important. the bottom line is this. federalism is the solution to our problems and the salvation of this country. in this area, more than anything else, we need to make sure we

use it and use it properly. thank you. thank you for being here. [applause] >> thank you, congressman. he has graciously agreed to take a few questions for we turn it over to our panelists. is there a question or two from the audience? we will send around the microphone. idea of change at the top, maybe, will help. it is a good one. but what do you do when you have a good department, thousands of employees? how can you turn the elephant around? >> that is the effort we are going through to try to make sure we get more authority to states. you already have the ability of the federal government to keep controlling the land, but they give the ownership and management back to state and local governments. we can push those entities. we can push to realize that

standardization and a communal approach to everything, everything being owned by the department of the interior, does not work. we need to start turning things around some more and more authority goes to local governments to do these jobs. the house has started to do this. things like our efforts with the effort tol, it is an try to turn over the authority of making sure that what happens on the land is controlled from the local level. those efforts have to be done, but they have to come from congress. >> my name is howard. on the eisenhower memorial -- what is the future of that bill? >> i do not know. nor does anyone know the future of the eisenhower memorial. failing, the authorization for site selection as well as the continuation has expired. it may come back with some

limitations. the house has cut the funding for the commission. the commission has not expired, nor have any of their employees than for load in the situation. they could be spending. they do not have any ongoing revenue coming in through the appropriations process. what i think the house has clearly said, in the committee work we have done so far, is we have to rethink this. we should have a memorial to eisenhower, but it should be done the right way. there are ways of doing it the right way that can be a whole lot cheaper. a way with other memorials we have done in the past. this has broken all the rules, try to take shortcuts. it has proven to be an unacceptable solution to this point. >> please join me in thanking representative bishop. [applause] like to express my

appreciation for congressman on thes leadership eisenhower memorial, which was an undemocratic and an transparent selection process, until he took it on. it perhaps would have gone to completion without being addressed. so thank you. we are now going to move to a panel discussion. we are very happy to have bruce cole, a senior fellow at the ethics and public policy center. he is also the former chairman of the national endowment to the humanities. in 2008, president george w. bush awarded him the medal for his work to strengthen our national memory and make sure our countries national heritage is passed on to future generations. just this summer, he was appointed by president obama to be a member of the dwight d eisenhower memorial commission.

the third center for legal and judicial studies at the heritage foundation -- he is a graduate of new york university school of law. at heritage, he focuses on civil rights, the role of the federal court, and other constitutional issues. each panelist will speak for 10 minutes. then we will have a conversation with you, the audience. >> thank you very much. and thank you, representative in leadershiping on this important issue. one of the important things the shutdown has shown is the importance of memorials and how americans care about them. they are sacred. i started with the image of dwight eisenhower in normandy in 1963. this is normandy today. the cemeteries are shutdown. the flag does not fly. denigration of

our memory -- a desecration of our memory and the brave souls who parish to in normandy. -- who perished in normandy. not many presidential memorials. most presidents go home and die. i have simple memorials. but we have a tradition, starting with the great obelisk of the washington memorial, moving on to the lincoln memorial, and then to the jefferson memorial. memorials, jefferson and lincoln are 20th century. they are superb because what and shows they elevate the importance of those presidents they memorialize. if you look at the jefferson memorial -- it harkens back to

the classical past. it embodies it, like all the federal architecture of rome, and itd anchors us to the past. if you walk up those steps, you are elevated. you get the sense of the gravity and importance of the person being memorialized. the james buchanan memorial is well hidden. memorial. franklin actually, franklin roosevelt wanted this. he was talking to his cabinet. he said, if you want to a plate theme, make size of my desk in the oval office. they did it. have memorial creep. this is the new memorial, which shows various episodes from his four terms. a group of people look like they are waiting for a men's room.

[laughter] center, the kennedy which is itself a memorial, a kind of living memorial. i want to talk about the ike memorial. i am all in favor. i was a great american -- ike was a great american. he comes from humble origins. here is his house in abilene. he was supreme commander of the allied forces in the day -- in d-day and the campaign that defeated germany. a great president, i believe. served two terms. a great record on civil rights. interstate highway. was very smart and savvy a politician. but he was humble. tomb in abilene, there are a couple of inscriptions. here is one about humility. humility must always be the portion of any man who receives

the blood of his followers and sacrifices of his friends. he was a humble and modest arson, plainspoken. -- person, plainspoken. he would be horrified by how he is about to be memorialized. a law said that an appropriate monument should be created. given $62 has been million in taxpayer money. they have about $20 million left. 1999ll as $2 million since for staff salaries. the architect is frank gehry. he is very famous. he is one of the starchitects. he has an interesting philosophy. the end of this paragraph, he

says, i will reiterate what i have said many times. face my children and tell them i have no more ideas and need to copy something. he is famous because he upsets all the architectural canons. he does not believe in the past. his work is not rooted in anything. i will give you a few examples. here are his dancing houses in prague, a complete reversion of stability and order. center in caseis western reserve. you can see how his style is. here was one thing he tried to get done in washington, and that looks like it ate 747.hilips, like a giant

you can see how out of sync it is with the surrounded architecture. this was actually approved by the fine arts committee and capital spending committee. here is the design for the eisenhower memorial. it is radically different than anything done before. it is postmodern architecture. it is not indebted to the past. it really minimalize his ike. these columns are eight stories high. in between them runs a scram with trees on it. rim with trees on it. this file it's the mcmillan plan. it is completely out of sync with anything grounded and anything in washington. it is indicative of the way that frank gehry builds. ized it does is it minimal ike. in the center of this memorial, in the back middle, you see ike

as a dad. the original plan was to show him -- as a cadet. the original plan was to show him as a barefoot boy from kansas. none of his accomplishments are in the statue. he is morphed by the giant columns. andsense of elevation importance and dignity, and the sense of humility that should be embodied in this memorial -- it is kind of perverted, turning upside down what eisenhower stands for. frank gehry says, this is what i do. this is what we do. i am talking your language, making it something better. i am taking your junk and making something with it. he is talking about the lincoln memorial. and the washington, and the jefferson. can we do better? as i said, i am all in favor of the memorial. butink it should be built,

it should be built in an appropriate form. right now, the site is for acres. it does not reflect the dignity, humility, and the complement of dwight david eisenhower. here is a very simple memorial. i am not suggesting something like this be built on the grounds of the eisenhower library in abilene, but certainly we can do something that is better. we can build something that is more appropriate. that will be a credit not only to the commissioners, but to the rising generations of america. we will learn something about the intrinsic good of dwight eisenhower. notf it is built, i do guess we will have to worry about anybody trying to break in to that memorial during the shutdown. it will keep people out when it is open.

andrew, we will let you take over from here. how thely talk about park service actions on public land and at memorials perhaps violate a few laws and constitutional rights. >> thank you very much. it has been a lot of great information here from both the congressman and mr. cole. i hope folks become more interested in our national monuments. i just spent the weekend in philadelphia. a firsto work there at amendment group, civil rights group, overlooking independence hall. i walked around and got to see folks with their families, visiting independence hall, trying to see the liberty bell and things like that. i wanted to hear what folks were saying. the refrain was pretty unanimous, even without any -- i did not prompt. i was just listening. folks were constantly harping on

how unnecessary it was to shut down these monuments, and how it seems disproportionate to what was going on in washington. i just want to talk a few minutes and raise some of the legal issues, and point out how folks that are concerned about these issues and have instincts as to what is going on, usually your instincts are pretty right. one of the things a lot of folks are saying is, isn't it odd that the parks service seems to be spending more money trying to shut down the parks then they would be spending just letting the parks lie "fallow"? that is a legal argument you are making when you say that. because you have instincts, that in the absence of a congressional appropriation the president cannot spend money -- there is a law. it says that unless congress passes a money bill, it is actually a ellen the for a federal officer to try to do stuff or spend money.

so there is a prohibition on that sort of a thing. the argument folks are making, when they say it is weird spending more money keeping things close -- isn't that probably violating the anti- efficiency act? this is actually an issue that is sortwithin the president's discretion. there is the law, and it says that without congress passing a only a few sorts of things they can continue operating. the phrases "emergency authorizations involving the safety of human life or the protection of property." this is where we get the opm rule that says essential personnel keep working. the three branches of government