>> she got along with mr. onassis. >> and when people were giving her trouble for marrying mr. onassis, rose stuck up for her and said jack would have wanted her to be happy. >> you describe her as being homeless after the death of president kennedy and wanted to know why the family didn't bring her more support, bring her to the fold, give her a place to live. >> she had money. >> she had $150,000 from the trusts coming her way. bobby pitched in $50,000. >> this is mid '60s. times that times ten for today's dollars. by her standards, perhaps it wasn't enough.

in terms of the physical place to live, she said in the famous interview with theodore white, the camelot interview the week after the assassination said she wanted to live with my children in the places i lived with jack. georgetown and on the cape. she could have gone to the cape. she went to georgetown. avril larriman loaned his home and she bought a home across the street. it was inundated with tourist buses, tourists, photographers, peeping into her windows and coming up on the porch. she couldn't bear it. after a relative few months, she took off for new york and spent the rest of her time there. >> did mrs. kennedy have to testify for the warren commission? >> she did. she did. june of 1964, earl warren and one or two others came to her parlor in georgetown and asked her about the motorcade. it was brief, i think it was less than a half an hour, but she did have to testify. that's on the record. some of her physical description

was wounding and kept for sometime because it was too graphic. >> other questions, did she talk about what her own theories were? the theories continue to this day about the lone assassin, lee harvey oswald or a larger conspiracy? has she espoused an opinion? >> no, again, she kept her counsel in all things. >> dawn from colorado springs. hi, don. >> hi. very, very grateful for your show. "the kennedys" were very inspiring to me. but my question is how important was jacklin's catholic faith to her. >> both kennedys were catholics? how important was it? >> i think she would -- barbara will -- i'll just begin on this.

she certainly considered herself catholic throughout her life. she had trouble when she remarried a divorced man outside of the faith, but although was supported in doing that to some extent by the family cardinal. i think one of the toughest things infind, in understanding public figures, two things, do you ever get to the real truth of someone's marriage if they're married? number two, do you get to the well -- to the bottom of what their religion feeling was? sometimes presidents and first ladies exaggerate that. sometimes there's more than that on the surface. >> michael pointed out through the oral history that she was having her doubts about her faith in those months at the -- >> she said i believe at this moment that god is an unjust god. >> exactly. >> she talks about her husband, jack, praying at night.

maybe a superstition. >> she said he did it in case there was a god. >> but she also apparently spoke to a father confessor at georgetown university and mentioned she was having suicidal feelings about the assassination but decided that would not be the way to go. >> and with children? >> and with children. >> so we're going to close with jaclyn kennedy's years one last time. >> once in the white house, i felt i could get out. i can't tell you how oppressive with the strain of the white house can be. i could go out -- jack would see it was getting me down. he would send me away. he would say why don't you go to new york, go see your sister in italy, then he sent me to greece

which was for a sad reason this year. but he thought i was getting depressed after losing patrick. he would say, i can go out, i can go to the restaurant in new york and walk down a street and look at an antique shot or go to a nightclub. i used to think -- inused to worry about going into the white house. but then you find out that it was really the happiest time in my life. >> i used to worry but then i find out they were the happiest years of my life. >> i think that was january. i think here's a case she had a bigger impact as first lady in all sorts of areas we talked about tonight but may not have been the one that people thought about at the time she served. >> transformational first lady. she set the stage for those to follow? how so?

>> her generation was abridged between traditional wives and mothers and the post women's liberation of the modern era. would say that's exactly how she was as first lady. and afterwards, much more modern, much more full partners with their husbands and picking a particular policy to work on. >> michael beschloss, book of the jackie kennedy tapes is widely available or you can get the book and listening to her in her own voice. >> wonderful. >> jaclyn kennedy's first lady of the new frontier. thank you for being at the table. >> thank you for the series. it's been splendid. >> it's been a joy for us to learn along the way. have a good evening, thank you for being with us.

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] morning in karnak, texas, she was given a name ladybird at an early age.

known foron was giving frank advice to her husband about the nations highways. join us next week for a look at the life of ladybird johnson on first ladies. with our partner, the white house historic posted you -- association offering a book on the first ladies, we have a biography and portion of each first lady from michelle obama. -- with an intro by michelle obama. our website has more on first ladies. it is produced by the white house historic will association.

historical association. >> c-span, we bring public affairs event from washington and -- directly to you. you coverage of the u.s. house as a public service for private industry. we are c-span. we are funded by your local cable or satellite provider. you can watch us in hd. bucks coming up on c-span, a veterans day ceremony. by a look atwed the divide between civilian and military populations. how the veteran affairs department is assisting returning veterans.

>> monday, the u.s. postal service margin veterans day by honoring world war ii recipients. it was hosted by the friends of the national >> a beautiful day in washington dc. we are glad to have everyone. i'm the director of events for the national war memorial. it's not my privilege to introduce the master of ceremonies. he is a board member >> thank you, sir. >> good morning.

earthquake damage repairs. the national martin luther king jr. memorial. and, the national world war ii memorial. 10's experience and knowledge of the site is invaluable. we partner with the national park service on their ongoing maintenance and upkeep efforts at the world war ii memorial. ladies and joe men it is my distinct honor to introduce mr. kenneth terry.

>> thank you, sir. >> good morning. it is my great honor to be your master of ceremonies this morning as we commemorate and honor all veterans that served our great country. to all of our veterans and servicemembers, past, present, we owe a debt of gratitude for their service to our country. and you all for being here today. a special thanks to veterans for your service and sacrifices for our nation. i am pleased to introduce the official party for today's commemoration. firstly, the governor of the great state of maryland, the honorable martin o'malley.

also with us today is the postmaster general of the united states post office, the honorable patrick donahoe. the superintendent of the national mall and immortal parks , mr. robert mobile.

the executive director of the maritime administration, mr. joule is a bot. -- mr. joel zabat. and my boss, the chairman of the board for friends of the national world war ii memorial, lieutenant general -- army states -- united states army retired. also with us today, we have from the military district of washington, james gray. we have the honor and privilege of having four very distinguished heroes with us today. the world war ii medal of honor recipient, master sergeant william kirby ross, army retired.

also with us today, world war ii medal of honor recipient, mr. george staccato, u.s. army. [applause] also present with us today, we have two other medal of honor recipients, vietnam war medal recipient.

and vietnam medal of honor recipient bruce crandall u.s. army. it is also our honor to have with us today i read -- irene inouye, or presenting her husband, senator daniel in no way -- representing her husband, senator daniel inouye. thank you for being here to commemorate the special day at the world war ii memorial.

please rise for the presentation of the colors and the playing of the national anthem and the indication. -- and the invocation. please join me in

the prayer according to your faith. heavenly father, your words strikes us.

be strong and let us fight bravely for our people in the cities of our god. dear lord, on this veterans day, we take time to remember our veterans but particularly our world war ii veterans. lord, our congress in 1926 established that this would be a day to honor our veterans for their patriotism, love for our country, and willingness to serve and sacrifice for the common good. for us to take solemn pride in the heroism of those that died in the country's service. the state to be commemorated with things giving, prayer, and exercises designed to promote goodwell. therefore, oh lord, we begin the ceremony with prayer, thanking you for the less things of peace in our land by the sacrifices and services of our fellow citizens.

we thank you for those who stepped to the shores of eternity and for those that still bless us today with their presence. particularly during this, that during this time, our nation, who understands the ravages of hurricane, our hearts go out to the fellow friends and in nation of the philippines. world war ii veterans served and liberated their country. so many citizens called that home their first land. lord, we pray for our veterans, many of those who are even now reaching out to them. today we pray that we never would beget the examples of our world war ii veterans. the citizens served -- they truly understood duty, honor. we will not take for granted. your word says blessed are the peacemakers for they will be

called the children of god. we ask for your blessing on the peacemakers of this board to. may we be like them, a people of peace. in the blessed name above every name's, to offer our troubles, to offer wisdom for our trials, who desire to bless our nation that we acknowledge -- according to our faiths we pray. amen. >> it is my privilege to introduce the superintendent of the national mall and memorial parks. mr. robert fogel. >> good morning, on behalf of the national mall and memorial

parks and national park service, welcome to this annual observance of veterans day at the world war ii memorial. i am very pleased to welcome governor o'malley. we look forward to hearing your inspirational word area --. i am -- your inspirational word. as always, it is a pleasure to be here with my good friend, general kicklighter, who is friends with the world war ii memorial. we very much appreciate the ongoing support that the friends provides the memorial.

just this past week, -- a world war ii memorial app. if you have not seen it, take a look. and welcome to all of our veterans and a very special welcome to our medal of honor recipients. senator in a way was a key figure -- senator inouye was a key figure in making this a reality. thank you so much for your service. 70 years ago, in the midst of two great wars on opposite sides of the globe, 9 million servicemen were on active duty. that number swelled to over 12 million by the wars ended in 1945 read millions more work in americans.

toiling with the convention that each rivet fastened would help their uniformed servicemen and women win the war. to end tyranny and to restore freedom and democracy around the world. through courage, determination, and selflessness, they succeeded in that mission. when they came home for the war, veterans work was not done. our veterans improved education with the g.i. bill of rights. they built our nation into a land of prosperity or security. winning the war was only the beginning. building a better america is their lasting legacy. this memorial is an enduring reminder of our world war ii veteran's service and sacrifice. it brings people together to honor our veterans and to reflect on their legacy. this memorial of stone and

bronze has the power to rekindle the flame of affection in our hearts for all who served, for all who answered the call of duty, and defended our nation in one of our darkest hours. to all of our veterans, i am humbled to join with you in the ceremony, honoring your service to our nation. thank you for attending today's events and welcome to your memorial. thank you very much. [applause]

>> i would like to take a minute to read a poem by mr. thomas crane, who recently visited the memorial here. it is titled "in honor of the world war ii veterans and memorial." "fallen heroes lie beneath the soil of many foreign lands, where rows of markers make their stand. a monument erected to bring the memories close at hand, many a buddy died. now he lives with such a great sorrow. a vet remembers when pals stood at his side. he carried a vision of them that he can never hide. the hell, the horror that they all had faced he knows within his heart they will not be forgotten or disgraced.

though old and weathered, the memories bring tears to his eyes as he slips through the years of stocks of their comrades bring images so near. it is now my honor to introduce the chairman of the board for friends of the national world war ii memorial, lieutenant general -- m on behalf of friends of the national world war ii memorial, it is a great honor and privilege to welcome you this morning. general o'malley and postmaster donahoe, thank you so much for being here and making the ceremony so special. it is extremely special to have for congressional medal of honor recipients attend this ceremony. thank you all for being with us. we have so many other distinguished guests this morning and we especially have our honored guests.

our world war ii veterans and their families. other veterans and their families and the men and women who are currently serving in our armed forces, ladies and gentlemen thank you so much for coming and to honor the men and women who served and sacrificed to keep this great nation strong and free.

at this very special memorial, we especially remember the 16 million americans who served during world war ii and all those who served on the homefront. we want to honor our world war ii veterans who fought the most destructive war in history. more than 60 million people lost their lives in that war, mostly men and women and children and the elderly. they not only fought that war against great odds, but they won that war. they not only saved this nation but they literally saved the world. we also were member those who served on the homefront. never has our nation been so united as they were in that war. we especially remember the

400,000 americans who never came home. they give all of their tomorrow's. when they were only 18 or 19 years old, all of your tomorrows is a high price to pay. they paid that price so that we could live in this strong, free, and beautiful america that we are proud to come home. the board and staff of the national world war ii memorial is privileged to continue to work very hard to ensure the legacy, the lessons, and the sacrifice of the world war ii generation is never forgotten. it is also great pride to work alongside the park service who did such an outstanding job in taking care of this magnificent memorial. we are also proud to partner with the national park service and the department of defense to help cohost special commemorative events like this one today. thank you for coming and honoring and remembering the veterans for their service, valor, and sacrifice that kept this nation free throughout our history. also i would like to give a special thanks of remembrance to the men and women who are serving in our armed forces today. for coming off the paddle fields of a rock on afghanistan.

-- the battlefields of iraq and afghanistan. god bless all of our veterans, especially our world war ii veterans. god bless the men and women who are serving on our battlefields. god bless america. thank you so much for being here. [applause] m a members of the united states air force, a musical patriotic salute to our veterans. [applause]

>> ladies and gentlemen, today we have the privilege of being with us, the united states postal service for a stamp dedication. we are honored to have with us the postmaster general of the united states post service, the honorable patrick donahoe. >> thank you and good morning, everybody. the postal service is proud to join this salute to our country's veterans.

i would like to recognize some special guests here today. ms. irene inouye, colonel buckley, the father of one of our postal inspectors, antonio -- who designed the stamps we will see in a couple of minutes, robert fraser, who is a photographer whose image appears on the stamp, -- from the postal service is citizens stamp advisory committee. this memorial is a place to honor heroes.

it is where we come to pay tribute to veterans who have sacrificed so much to defend our country and the freedoms we cherish. the postal service also has a role in honoring american heroes. that is through stamps. many stamps tell the story of people who have shaped our history and defined our heritage. today we are dedicating stamps that salute recipients of the medal of honor, our nation's most prestigious military decoration.

it is awarded by the president to service members who go above and beyond the call of duty. this is an award like no other, of the 16 million americans who served our country in world war ii, only 464 received the medal of honor and more than half were warded posthumously to men and women killed in action. throughout world war ii there were two versions of the medical on -- the medal of honor. one for the army and one for the navy. today we are dedicating to stamps, one that features the picture of the army medal, and one that says the navy first. when we announced the stamps we wanted to do something special. we decided the stamps should come with a list of all 460 four -- 464 medal of honor winners from world war ii along with the images of the 12 living recipients. sadly we have lost four of these

men. had the good fortune to know senator daniel in a way -- senator daniel inouye. he destroyed two machine guns and an candidates with hand grenades. his right arm was shattered. he refused evacuation. he continued to direct his platoon until the enemy was defeated. our pitchers remain as part of the stamp folio, along with the images of two recipients who were honoring with us -- honoring us with their presence. let me tell you about his story. october 1944, while fighting the enemy in france he positioned his machine gun in front of the enemy and began to absorb their attacks. during more than five hours of combat, he would've 58 soldiers and saved the rest of his company. the other medal of honor recipient is george the cotto, who happens to be a retired member of the postal service. in 1944, october, his unit was pinned down by heavy enemy fire.

he launched a one-man rush that inspired the platoon to charge and destroy the enemy. the result, he killed 12, wounded two, and personally captured for enemy soldiers. i would like to ask mr. ross and mr. staccato to stand or waif right now so we can salute their courage. >> thank you for being here. you can learn a lot more about mr. ross and the other world war ii medal of honor recipients by visiting the official website. i also want to take the opportunity to point out another postal service retiree, anthony gizzi. vicki for being here today. indeed our challenge as a nation

is to never forget the sacrifices of all the men and women made on our behalf. that is why we have veterans day, memorial events like this one. we help this new medal of honor stamp will get everyone more ways to preserve our stories for future generations. please use the stamps, send them around the country, and around the world. let them serve as small reminders of the giant sacrifices made by the men you see here today, the heroes of world war ii. thank you very much. now i would like to invite mrs. inouye a to join me for the unveiling of the medal of honor stamp. thank you.

>> the honorable martin o'malley is serving the people of maryland and his second term as governor.

a former governing magazine public official of the year, governor o'malley, was reelected . his 2013 legislative successes were described in a baltimore sun editorial as without many parallels in recent maryland history. governor o'malley served where he was recognized by esquire magazine as the best young mayor in the country. by time magazine as one of the them top five big-city mayors. between 1999 and 2009 his policies helped the people of baltimore writ -- a baltimore achieved the greatest crime reduction of any of america's cities. the late thomas martin o'malley served with the u.s. air force during world war ii. it is my privilege to introduce the great american, donor martin o'malley. >> thank you very much. postmaster general donahue, to

mrs. inouye, to george the cotto, will -- to george staccato, to john minnick and the distinguished company of veterans from baltimore city, the greatest city in america. to veterans one and all. the spirit of my father. 72 years ago, my parents generation found our nation plunged into world war. theirs was a clear and epic struggle.

a struggle that would determine whether or not this government of the people, by the people, and for the people would perish from the earth. here today at the world war ii memorial, encircled by granite stones of american honor, we pause this morning as one nation to pay tribute to our veterans. here the fanfare of the common man.

citizen, soldier, american, brother, son, each was asked a question in the snows of korea or the jungles of vietnam, in the deserts of iraq, or the mountains of afghanistan. in the pledge drench us the blood drenched feels of gettysburg or the frozen mud of valley forge, each was asked a question. for family or neighbors, for generations you will never meet, for one nation under god, how big is your love. our duty this morning is not to lift their service hire, no personal tribute or feeling of hours, no filibuster or shut down can touch the gift already sending far beyond our earthly reach.

our duty has -- is not to lift higher but to dig deeper, to search through the shadows of our own current outs, to rediscover our own true selves. to find within us the power greater than the individuals we are. to seek or touch a stronger truth, a truth to heal the heart of our democracy. a truth that still abides, a truth that calls us to their unfinished work. our parents and grandparents the essence we share as americans. it is the truth that lies at the heart of the american dream. the more she gives to us, the more she gives to our children the more she gives to our grandchildren.

the veterans weise -- we honor today did not serve, did not fight and die, so their children could grow up in a country of less. he gave to us a larger and stronger country. a country of more, a country of more opportunity. more freedom, more justice. a country we now have the ability to pass onto our own grandchildren, if we choose even stronger and better than they gave her to us. the future that created was far larger than themselves and even their own generation. the love they freely gave us was an everlasting love, expansive, resounding, and big.

and so it was to be with us. with the ongoing life is not finished. the duty to preserve, protect and defend is not the exclusive fate or franchise of anyone generation, however great. it is the freedom of every generation. it is the responsibility of every generation. it is the greatness that calls to each of us. may god bless the souls of all brave men and women past, present, and future, whose love for others proves them were in

the -- proves them worthy to be called americans. [applause] >> thank you, governor. >> coming up on c-span, a look at the divide between the civilian and military populations. affairsow the veterans are assisting returning members. >> on the next washington intelligence and monitoring drones and other countries. our guest is a correspondent. contractor and the cost of procedures. washington journal is live every morning at 7:00 eastern on c- span.

morning, charlie cook moderates a discussion on the events that may influence the midterm election. the national journal host this event in washington dc at 8:30 eastern. >> with the war in europe turning hot, the u.s. is totally unprepared and george marshall came to president roosevelt and said that we cannot do the things that we have got in the past and we have to act now and precisely. we have to do it today. roosevelt went to congress the next week and said that the united states must build 50,000 airplanes to protect itself. all of the companies were given projects to build engines and airplane parts.

the ford motor company was given the be-24 bomber will stop is the newest airplane that we had. produce thisto mass- airplane. he said that he is not just going to build parts, he is going to build airplanes. they took what had been done as individual pieces and they decided to hold the 210 thousandths of an inch and a massive press would knock out these pieces that went to the assembly line and unskilled assembly workers would assemble this airplane. the engine bombers were one of 11 factories. >> saving in the piece of this plant is so important to our beyond words.s

i cannot describe the feeling that we have if we pull this off. we did something here that has not been done anywhere else in the world. we have little league saved the world from the axis powers. the yankee air museum is trying to say part of the plant and has plans to turn the plant into an abandoned -- we look at the literary life and ann arbor. >> walter bettinger spoke at the national press club about retirement issues and the 401(k) system can be improved. you can see his remarks at c- span.org. here is a look at what he had to say.

>> i do not have any comments. i will say that our clients are concerned about the policies of the federal reserve and they would like to see us begin a process of heading towards a market-driven approach to interest rates. we all know this. we have been taking a drug for five years. you cannot slow down without pain. part of ourthe client is that you cannot stand the drug forever. to takeer we begin steps to get to a more sustainable environment. they would feel better. anticipate clients rashes in the market

>> now, a discussion on whether or not there is a civilian military divide. michael was a guest on washington journal. >> we are going to take a look >> it is referred to as the civilian and military divide. joining me is michael noonan. freedometeran of iraqi what are some of the ways that the civilian and military divide manifests itself. well, we have to know that

there will always be some sort of divide. ,hen people join the military they are incorporated into the way that the military does things. mostgive orders that normal people would not do. it is the marine corps commercial about moving to the sound of the guns. there is always going to be some sort of divide. there are ways that it exacerbates. especially service. the lieutenant journal had a piece in the washington post where he talked about the military divide and talked about how the military contributes to aces sinceg on big ./11 they have their own school

systems and gated communities. among some, we have an all volunteer military and there is a feeling that than the civilian they are better than society the society civilian society that the defendant that they defend, so those are just sort of some of the manifestations of the civil- military divide. host: when did this start? when did people like yourself by writing about this and talking more about it? guest: it started in the 1990s really. there were two studies came up. one, a consortium between duke university and the university of north carolina chapel hill and north carolina state, and the center for strategic and international studies did a big study around 97 or 1998 talking about the culture and what differentiated the views and attitudes of the sort of civil- military divide. some people thought it was kind of a byproduct of the clinton administration, how you had a president who chose not to serve in vietnam and peoplesoft is perhaps as a partisan issue and were looking at things like political identification -- people saw this perhaps as a

partisan issue. at the time it skewed heavily conservative -- not necessarily republican but a more conservative worldview than civil society. some people thought that this was going to change when president george w. bush took office, but it really didn't. as we saw with the iraqi and afghanistan wars, certain segments of the military itself found certain aspects of these wars to be kind of unpopular. so it is really sort of a post- cold war manifestation tied up with -- since the end of the draft, you move to an all senseeer force. that

of volunteered, they are serving certainf of society and segments have felt some time to time that they are sort of unappreciated. host: we are talking about the civil-military divide with --hael noonan from the policy research institute. we want to hear your thoughts. with a special line, again, for veterans on the subject. we want to hear from you on this veterans day. 3883.85- all others -- host: mr. noonan, while folk are talk about the knology aspic. some people who have written about the subject have said technology has further widened the gap.

guest: i think it has both the widened and narrowed the gap. ,or instance, when i was iniraq i had access to e-mail and i lived in a small fort with the iraqi army and one of the units before is installed a commercial internet line. so, i got literally come back from a patrol going out with our iraqi battalion an e-mail or call my wife on the phone, which did not generations have the opportunity to do. it was kind of instant communication. i think that could be both a blessing and a curse sometimes, because it could take away some of the distance there. in one sense, it kind of connection you but in the other sense, if he had a bad day it is really not that great to have .nstantaneous access to people and when you drone operators working in a place like the air

force base in nevada, actually conducting end of combat operations using remotely piloted aircraft. and they can take out military targets on the ground and then kind of go home and go to soccer practice for the kids and have dinner that night. so that is kind of that -- some people degrade their service, but on the other hand, it is kind of an unenviable position for them to be in. host: michael noonan from the foreign policy research institute. in 2006-2007. correct? and where did you serve? guest: in western ninevah province, up in the northwest corner of the country not far from syria. it was an interesting part of a rack. heavily kurdish, turk -- interesting part of iraq.

there were a but lot of foreign fighters coming from syria causing a lot of problems. a very interesting and unique place to serve. i am sorry, go ahead. no, i was about to say we were actually able to go back into sh part of the country. that really is the other iraq. much different than serving down in baghdad but in our area of operations where we were stationed you certainly would not go out like that. host: michael noonan with your questions and comments. mary from fort washington on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking this call. fromand ask military brat the 1960s in the 1970s. i was a military brat until i was 22. i think the civilian-military divide is far less today than it was back in those age. we do live very sheltered.

when you are in the military, you have the best px, the postage change, the store, for lehman l --ayman. still today, if you want to go to a real grocery store you go to a military base. because of the wars, extra divide in that sense. civilian armada -- are not allowed to go on the military base as they used to, so they are going to feel that divide. but as far as emotional divide, i feel that military families are more open-minded because you have more access to the world. so, we try to close that divide as often as we can but every time we have a war, we shut down and closed the gates down, a get wider and it is back and forth. my opinion. thank you. host: michael noonan? your thoughts. guest: your caller makes excellent points. generation of veterans experienced nothing like the people who served in vietnam and came back and were kind of

really treated poorly by society. even a society that has the troubles with the post-9/11 wars at least thankfully have made that the tension that the people that serve are not responsible is serving there, that there kind of this divide between politics and the soldiers. i think that is a great thing. isthe other hand, i think it almost too much sometimes. when i came back from leave from hartsfield airport in atlanta and just eruptions of -- comingnot a plane off the airplane made you feel self conference and there is a difference and awe sometimes that makes many veterans of my current generation of little bit uncomfortable. host: you brought up the "washington post" piece from yesterday on the issue. who is responsible for this

points outt piece the u.s. military, the way that they howl as active-duty members of the military could be part of the problem here. it notes that u.s. military bases are some of the most exclusive gated communities. more than a third live on base as with many more living just outside the wire -- host: michael noonan, who do you think is sort of more at fault in creating a sort of divide? = between civilians and the military? or is one side more at fault? , certainlyhat issue

post-9/11, there was a feeling and a justified one, that there was an increased threat to military bases. so, some of the family housing areas are not the traditional -- areas. they are not as restrictive interface is as their -- they are in other places. on the one hand, there was probably a good reason to lock down some of the bases. you have things like fort dix bosniacs and others gaming -- who came to the united states and talked about an attack on fort dix. there was chatter that said these places might be prone for , but we probably took it too far. and we might want to think about starting to kind of throttle back on some of that. but one of the bigger problems is that, you know, the military -- in particular the army --

have these big mega-bases who are not traditionally big urban heavily populated areas. there is some rationale. we have to have access to training areas, ranges, and other things. of living and other expenses that you would have to pay if you had a place -- let's say, for instance, for hamilton in brooklyn. if you were going to put a lot of active-duty -- active-duty troops there, it would be expensive. so the services have kind of factored in some of these costs. that is not to say that maybe pute's a call to sort of some of these active-duty places in the northeast and other places. the northeast right now, there is really only one big army base, fort drum in northern, northern new york. there is not a lot of contact with active-duty military people.

on the other hand, there are guard and reserve units all over the place. downtown, the big armory in manhattan, for instance, does show sort of a military base to the public. it is not as much is probably they used to be. host: in their piece on that , they write -- host: on twitter a viewer right in on the subject that -- the divide is that the military lives with sacrifice daily while many others today expect things given them for free. we are taking a tweets and calls. john from rio rancho, new mexico , on our line for democrats. caller: happy veterans day.

for all you guys have done for the country. i would like to just think you for that. i think is so she'll-political divide, but it is not the military, but definitely between the -- the classes with the wealth divide between the rich and the poor. in new mexico, we see the otherrs as friends, and people we know -- and there is really no divide between the civilians in the soldiers, because we have so many soldiers around, and we are thankful for them. but i think there is a huge geopolitical divide. what happened with world war ii is all the technology in thereon -- somewhere but a lot of gray area. we want to feel like we are the good guys but in these wars in the middle east, we blame the politicians mostly because the people don't feel like we were the good guys in these wars. but we do not blame the soldier.

thank you. host: michael noonan? there's -- is there --is economics contributing to that divide? -- is economics contributing to the divide? guest: the pay is not that bad, with allowances and other things. i guess the call is probably down the row where fort bliss is or some of the air force base's there, the there is a heavy military presence in new mexico philhat aligns with what carter in general barnow talked about yesterday with open space. i would not want to speculate on the sociocultural -- so she'll- political argument the caller was arguing about.

host: let's talk about fixing the divide going forward. what are your suggestions for narrowing that divide? well, i wrote a piece back on memorial day where i was open"g about -- it was u.s. news & world report" --one of the elements of the civil- military divide, a conflagration of veterans day today, supposed to be a celebration of veterans for their service and patriotism and sacrifices, and memorial day, which is about those who made the ultimate sacrifice. and they are very different days. if you have known anybody who has passed away, memorial day is a very somber event. it is not just about going down to the beach for the weekend. there are a few ways that you

can sort of narrow the gap a bit. one way would be for military and others to accept that there are other forms of service out there. things like teachers and municipal workers and others who are actually serving their community. true, it is not foot of the unlimited liability sense of service that the military does, and in certain cases, police and firemen do. but we need to expand the concept of service. and accept that not everyone has to be in the military. one of the issue is that -- issues is that less than one percent of the population has served in these wars in iraq and afghanistan and other places around the world since 9/11. i think phil and general barnow puts the number at 2.6 million people out of a population of over 300 million people. so it is a very small percentage of the people.

yes, weto accept that, do volunteer. service is about serving. just sort of a lifetime of benefits afterwards. now, fellow veterans who have been injured, both physically and mentally, obviously the government needs to keep faith with those veterans and make whole the promises they made to them. on the other hand, veterans have the obligation -- there was an interesting piece yesterday that that's where the author talked about his experience. andntrymen veteran of iraq he is a student at georgetown university and he talked about how after the first few years going to school there, he had this chip on his shoulder about being a veteran. then he came to the realization that he will both have it easier and harder in a sense man some of his former conflict --

classmates who have not served. the post second world war generation and others, when they came back from their service, they saw it as just one part of their lives. not something that needed to define the rest of their lives did so they went out and did things in their community. there are other forms of service. --re are other organizations the mission continues, and others, it's really tries to bridge the divide working with the nick and business organizations around the country, -- civic and business organizations around the country tapping into veterans to make their communities better places to live in an too continues to serve. program onel noonan, national security director at the foreign policy research institute and we are talking about the civil-military divide. taking your calls and comments. up next, eau claire, wisconsin.

republican. clay, thanks for calling in. caller: i am a veteran who served in both afghanistan and iraq and i stand in solidarity with the experts demanded an investigation of why building seven fell on 9/11. why aren't you or the magazine covering the scientific evidence -- ing building seven where host: we are talking about the civil-military divide with michael noonan. did you have a question on that topic? no? we will go to robert from frostburg, maryland, an independent and a veteran calling in this morning. robert, thanks for calling in. caller: thank you for answering my call. i am a vietnam veteran, and thank thell, i gentleman there that you have as a guest for his service. g that disturbs me very much today is every single

commit american veterans suicide over their service in wars. four presidents -- dwight eisenhower warned about the military-industrial project -- complex. -- the four presidents eisenhower, kennedy, gerald ford, and george h w bush, all served in world war ii. en have a tremendous appreciation for the service of veterans. eisenhower, gerald ford did not work in vietnam and did not commit troops -- george h w bush went into iraq and came out out of respect for the troops. eisenhower warned about the

military-industrial concerts. johnson, nixon, george bush ii, they gave into the military industrial complex. iendse had four of my fr commit suicide over neglect of veterans. my congressman about the abuse of veterans in maryland. men beingt of these abused, i have been blackballed in the v.a., because i did something that should have been done. noonan, part of what he was talking about was the experience of actually going to of u.s. leaders. pew research center put out a recent survey on veterans in congress. talked about this issue. shrinking number

of veterans in congress, down to about 20 sent -- 20% today and both the house and the senate. does it contribute to the civil- military divide here? guest: first, i would like to thank robert for his service in vietnam. say that theike to issue he raised about suicide is a very important one today. and the v.a. and other people really need to step up their game to help veterans coming back, particularly ones that -- have had mental scars from the service. the issue of veterans in congress, i think that is perhaps one part of it. there are veterans in congress today -- some, but obviously much fewer than the past. however, remember in the past, some of the people served -- we had the only period of peacetime construction -- conscription and

united states, the end of the korean war until 19649065, whenever you want to count the beginning of the vietnam war. there were a lot of of the people who served and therefore served in congress. so, putting that up as a match -- metric was one way of perhaps exacerbating the civil-military divide further almost because it would kind of disproportionately represented veterans in politics. i don't think that there is any negative thing of former veterans and serving, but i think we need to be careful about sending a message that somehow people that served in uniform are somehow better than their fellow servant -- the citizens of serving in congress. now, that being said, yes, obviously something needs to be happening -- i am sorry to hear about robert's experience in the v.a. but there are issues in the v.a.

that really need to be fixed. and really needs to provide better service to veterans of all conflicts. recent cohortost of veterans. mental health' issues and the issue of the v.a., those are important subjects we will get into a little bit later in the show when we have tom tarantino on aq and afghanistan veterans in america, coming up that 8:45. we are talking about the civil- military divide with michael noonan of the foreign policy institute. he has written on the subject. a veteran himself. guest: does he go back farther in u.s. history? guest: i didn't say it goes back

just to the 1990's. there has always been some kind of divide. i think it gets exacerbated during conflicts. you have things like the draft riots in new york. it has always been around. it goes back to plato talking about guardians and people they protect. there always is this divide. contentious periods of politics. host: a veteran on a line for democrats. ted. good morning caller: i would like to say all veterans, let's have a happy day. let's think about all the people we served with. let's try to keep the conversation civil.

i have been around the world and had a great time. ve in the1978, acti reserves. butr fired a shot in anger spent all kinds of time training. i just feel that there is a civilian military divide. in my generation, guys that i know, you'll see them with hanging off the rearview mirror of their pickup. i would ask, where you can get them? "you can buy them from a magazine." something like that. i refer to them as the woulda, coulda, shoulda guys. i think back to this guy's

generation. cheney.of w and mr. i think of -- it ironic when mr. cheney in college on a deferment a could not find his courage during vietnam but he could find his courage to send men like your speaker to a shooting war. i just like to say to all people involved. i get my health care at the v.a. i was a plumber in the air force. i am a union plumber today. i find that i have done lots of work on the civilian side, hospitals versus the v.a. when the v.a., makes a mistake they put it on the front page of the paper.

i encourage all veterans to use your v.a. health care. it is very good. i have no complaints. have a nice day. host: i will let you respond. guest: thank you for your service during the cold war. it is not just about people who served in hot wars but also served the country in other ways during that time. the callers talk about politicians. somebody on the other side of the aisle could bring up counter examples to that. we will say that when you join the military, you take an oath to support and defend the constitution and those civilian leaders who are elected and appointed above you. we do not get to make the choices of where we go and do not go.

this was a contentious issue a few months back. every tile general wrote a piece talkingwashington post about relaying comments from people and how they did not want to use force in syria and that is a problem. we do not get to decide and that is the way it is in our system of government. his point about the v.a. does good things as well. we should not shirk from calling them out when bad things happen. that does happen in other health care providers, not in the v.a. system as well. comments, does that relate to your comments when you wrote in your piece that veterans should be treated

with respect by not absolute deference and awe? guest: there was a book a few civilian-about controlled military and civilian commands and talked about the military, those who serve in the military have one viable perspective and can sometimes make mistakes. he talks about the second world war, where the joint chiefs wanted to launch the invasion of europe much earlier. fdr wsaisaid no. that we are going to work her way up to that. that was the right call in the end. the military has an important perspective. they know about those who served

with them but they do not have the only perspective and don't always have a monopoly on good strategic sense. host: michael noonan is with the foreign policy rsearch institute . explain what the institute is. independentprofit think tank. it was started in 1955 at the university of pennsylvania that we split off in 1970 as part of the vietnam war. we did research education on foreign and defense policy issues. we do not conduct any classified research. if you want to learn more about the foreign policy rsearch fpri.org and you can follow it on twitter.

on the subject of the "serving or servicing the civil-military divide, edwin writes in on twitter. we will go to lc on the phone from jacksonville, alabama. good morning, elsie. caller: good morning and happy veterans day. birmingham claims to have one of the oldest veterans day parades in the country. before the veterans day, we had armistice day. we had a parade when i was a child and that was quite a few years ago. i was a military wife. my husband was in the military before world war ii started. mr. noonan was talking about fort drummond, new york. my husband was stationed at the philippine islands and that is where he was when world war ii

started. the towns that we lived in really supported the military. they were glad to have them there. for most of my life when we were in the service, we did live in areas that were very welcoming to the military. but i will say when we were in the military and lived on the basis, everybody supported each other. our husbands were gone a good bit. if you had an emergency, you always had friends you could call. everybody help each other. i had children that were hospitalized. i had to stay at the hospital with them. we had to stay 24 hours a day with them. my friends kept my other children. it is a different life altogether. remove to alabama when my husband retired. wasoved to an area that

military installation. it was closed about 10 years ago, which made a lot of difference in the economy of our little town here. enjoyed being in the military. we got to do things, my children were exposed to things, they had things going on about the space program. we got to go out and see things about that. they were exposed to a lot of things that people who lived off the base were not exposed to. now, he was talking a few minutes about drones. my husband was in a drone squadron in new mexico in 1957. he wasn't aircraft mechanic -- he was an aircraft mechanic. we are supporting. big installations, the towns. i am sure it is different.

host: thank you for calling in. robert is next from indianapolis, a veteran this morning. thank you for calling in. caller: thank you for taking my call.. like the divide is a result of the political climate at the time. the counterculture was in the school and every campus had various protests. now that counterculture is the leadership of the democratic party and most of the media. all they have done is project that style of thinking to the wars they do not agree with. i was treated fantastic by my local community when i came home from the gulf war. years later the community itself was supportive. campus,gton, around the

people were awful. it is basically an affront to the political climate at the time and whatever the popular culture is pushing. host: i will you jump in on that comment. guest: i would say about vietnam, the counterculture backs off when the draft ended. once they were not threatened by having to go serve, a kind of deflated the issue for the counterculture. there were still people opposed to the war. some of the edge probably came off of it. just about the partisan tone of things. went for obama election in 2008 on an antiwar, to end the war in iraq. his first term, he was pretty

forceful. differenty it looks when people -- i do not think we should be making broad, sweeping generalizations about how one group groups these things. end ofou talk about the the draft. do you think a return of the draft would help narrow the gap? guest: perhaps but i do not think it is going to happen. there would not be an equitable way to do it. it is about 4.2 million americans turned 18 every year. that would be a tremendous amount of human resources. the military is less than half

of that on active duty. there'll not be an adaptable way even if you do things like lotteries. there would still be some issues there. somethingce -- it that people talk about and that would solve the problems but it would add some serious implementation problems. host: john from texas on a line from democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i volunteered for vietnam. not everybody was drafted. i was hired when i got back by a big company. they were overflowing with people bucking the draft. the company was actively encouraging getting people in the guards and the reserve, % ticket out of the war. i was presented openly by people

i worked with. i never once felt my service was acknowledged. there was always a divide. host: i will give you the last comments on the last minute or so we have here. guest: yeah, i mean. i cannot fathom what it was to come back from vietnam. i think it is a credit to the american people that they for most people they separated the politics from those that served and i think that is for the best of the country. host: michael noonan is with the foreign policy rsearch institute , if you nd delivered

remarks. that happening this morning at 11:00 this morning. you can see that on c-span. the bureau of labour statistics release its october jobs report which of the unemployment rate among veterans had jumped to 6.9% from 6.5% in september. joining us to discuss veterans employment is ward carroll, a former navy pilot who serves as editor of military.com.

put the veterans' employment numbers in perspective for us. it is lower than the general population. guest: it is a slight up tack. over the long haul of the post 9/11 period, it is trending downward. depending on what demographic you're carving out, it has been as high as 14% and 15% overall and for some groups it has been in the mid-20s. it is trending in the right direction. some of the initiatives are on the right track. there are other things that veterans can do and employers can do to improve the numbers. host: some of those places where the numbers are high. talk about women's employment,

women's veterans employment. 8%, according to the latest number. stills down from 9.5% but relatively high compared to the general population. guest: women's employment and if you make a subset at of a younger demographic, the number 20alarmingly high, may percentile.- mid 20 there is a number of factors that you can bring to bear. it is not always unique to gender. how they are looking in terms of the education they have. what are the personal circumstances? all of these things can create an environment that is frustrating for veterans to find

jobs. host: you work at military.com. they were affiliated with monster.com. explain what military.com is. guest: it is a website with the full range of offerings for the military experience. those thinking of joining and those already in and those transitioning to get out. that is why monster acquired, to find veterans jobs. they are active in the public and private initiatives to find that arends jobs. it is a good marriage -- to find veterans jobs. we have news letters that we push each other in a and periodically to our members. to get you for us your information in a tailored fashion. news pieces those

about female veterans. insecure female veterans compared to male veterans. they feel their skill was less relevant to civilian careers. they make up 10% of our nations veterans. talk more about that study. guest: monster and military.com do an index. radically. this is a survey to see where they are in terms of understanding of each other's needs, skills, and the things that either party rings to bear when it comes time to find a job or to bring somebody into the workforce. uncoveredecent index

female veterans are feeling ill prepared and perhaps miss understood by potential employers about what they did when they were in uniform and the attributes that could transform into them qualified for a given job. host: we are talking to ward carrollof military.com. happy to hear your thoughts and questions. the phone lines -- democrats, 202-585-3880. republicans, 202-585-3881. independents, 202-585-3882. phone lines are open. one other segment i want to talk about is younger veterans. the unemployment rate for gulf men, 9.6%ns, 10% for for women.

how is this trending for young veterans? guest: it was trending downwards. we are never satisfied we are out of the woods. the overall is in the 10% range. it is twice as high for 20 to 24-year-olds. there is some sense that employers are not understand what is these folks did when they were in uniform. these people are not effectively articulating what it was that they did and therefore there is a disconnect which is not allowing them to get the jobs. we have some things to help. you can take your occupational specialty and translated to sell it makes sense to an employer that does not exactly do what you did when you were in uniform. trainingmostly a

transitioning issue? guest: there is a burden on both sides. there is a burden on the job seeker to package themselves in a way that resonates with a potential employer. employers on not necessarily going to do it for them. let's say i was a truck driver in afghanistan. i did these high risk convoys. iw i am ready to get out but want to be a sales rep for a company or want to get into marketing. how you make yourself attract to a potential employer is on you but also on the employer to understand the attributes you could bring even though my company does not drive trucks. that is some of what we are seeing. numbers fromore

the labor department. post00 veterans from the 9/11 era. we are talking about this with ward carroll. first up is eric underline for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. where are the jobs? population unemployment for african- americans is 13%. for whites is around 6%. i would imagine the military is higher than that. project toy kind of bring the unemployment rate down for african americans? such as giving them grants to start jobs. if the unemployment rate was this high among whites, we might have riots.

where are the jobs? host: any specific programs that you know of? guest: i am not aware of any programs that are dedicated to african-americans. hiring our heroes. the first lady has been active in veterans transition and veteran jobs. of one that is specifically aimed at african- americans. i cannot speak to that element. i am aware of jobs for all veterans and all veterans that are transitioning. host: we are talking with ward carroll. there are about 246,000 unemployment veterans. we have a special line for 202- 585-3880 and afghanistan war vets. they can call in on 202-585-3883 , along with our other lines.

we will keep rolling those numbers for you. anthony is next, a veteran. thank you for calling in.' caller: good morning. good morning, america. one of the most important things about being a vet is are --anding that we when you have the best athletes, they get drafted. if we have less than 1% that served, then we are the best prospects for our nation's defense. when we have the individuals who have served, and i was medevac out of theater and i have top level security clearances, and when i came back and i went

through the next some program, because veterans spoke up and i received my results and i knew i 100%% away from being totally disabled. i was able to come back to my civil service position. my civil service employer -- "i think i need to retire and i was denied that. i had to return back to my civil service job and it was for the army. i wasn't active duty soldier, a civil servant soldier. i left theodore directing an army regional computing registry response team. that is cyber warfare. i came back to my job and i

entered an environment that was so harsh that my health got worse. what i am saying is i do not let that destroy me. i go to the local police department, fire department. i take and bake goods. i will donate my entire 100% v.a. disability check back to the community because i did not come into the military for pay but to take the skills that i had learned in the civilian community and make our nation stronger. host: thank you for calling in. anthony talk about the transition issue. we have this on twitter. guest: i think that is a little bit of a cliché. thank you for your service,

anthony. just like in the military, sometimes you get with a unit that has a good atmosphere. all results will not be the same with the transition. we are describing what is challenging about the transition. sometimes it works out where you're in the job for years and years and sometimes it is a toxic environment were the people are not your kind of people and you either move on or you indoor -- endure. his status off him to get employment. we are talking about people that do not have jobs. anthony had a job. it was not one that he enjoyed. in terms of the d programming, this is part of what we fight on a daily basis. stone narrative.

-- go to war, you are, ties, you are traumatized, you come back, and you are a burden on society. this is not charity. we want job seekers and employers to understand. that is part of the narrative we are trying to dispel. certainly people are doing some things that are unique to the military experience. isng a rifleman in a squad not something you're probably going to do stateside. having embedded with those guys, the most professional, they get it. i would want every one of them to work at military.com if we had jobs for them. host: ward carroll served in

four different squadrons around the world. we are talking about military employment rates. theunemployment rates from bureau of labour statistics are broken down by states. arizona is here just over 9%. the state with the lowest veterans unemployment rate is north dakota. the state with the highest is new jersey, 10%. we are talking military veterans unemployment rate. james is next on a line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. i've been retired for a while. i retired in 2005. i come from a small town in louisiana. there is nothing around this area. it is just tough these days for

veterans like myself. too many jobs around this area. i do what i can. enjoy veterans day today. there is not much in this area. find.re hard to they are just not coming anymore. host: thank you for your service -- guest: thank you for your service. i served on a number of aircraft carriers. do live in northern or southern louisiana? caller: about 20 minutes from lake charles. there is not much in this area unless you go out of state are further down south like new orleans, but i am not going to

move. guest: there are constraints in your ability to translate your military skills. you were comfortable at sea. i could see working for a company servicing oil rigs or other shipping. that, you have to bring to bear what you learned in the navy. shop early, stay late, how to be a leader. every boatswain's mate i met was good in terms of creating the right tone morale-wise. i'm not saying it easy. it could be very challenging. if you were willing to move, i think you would be able to find employment that you would like user than if you stayed near lake charles. --t: holly on twitter

guest: that is still going on. they get a tax credit. there are other initiatives that the administration did to create this awareness among firms that might not otherwise consider veterans. dr. biden and the first lady are doing other programs. i believe these are slowly starting to work. the public has a short memory. a lot of us think the war ended with the bin laden take down. a tight budgetary environment. everybody feels the pinch of the government shutdown. i am afraid people's focused on veterans employment might weigh on that and that would be a disservice to those who gave their all. host: robert from missouri honor

line for republicans. good morning. you are on with ward carroll. caller: good morning. i would like to speak on behalf of the veterans coming home. i was a veteran. i was retired in 1971 from the navy. i would like to speak up for the veterans. the media gives the veterans a bad rap. they talk about the veterans coming back, hooked on drugs, hooked on dope. i blame the doctors in the v.a. doctors-- i blame the for not giving the right medication to these veterans. these veterans are going in and these doctors are just filling

them full of trucks. -- drugs. and the out of that poor veteran, some are living on the street. they are turning to alcohol. well, the media puts out the veterans. they write bad about the veterans. what is an employer supposed to do? host: thank you for the call. the subject is a front page story in "the wall street journal." meds. demon -- their guest: i do not think that is a new demon. ptsd is a label that has existed since man first daughter going to war -- first started going to war. it is an acute problem for the

veterans. thank you for your service. he talked about two things at once. he talked about doctors perhaps overprescribing meds. we have seen that. objectively the v.a. has done a lot to solve all of their issues since these wars started. higher visibility on the amount that meds are prescribed and that is what they are trying to solve. is a work in ptsd progress. 1600 more psychological or medical health professionals have been hired to try to tackle this problem. the other part of the question is about the public perception

issue. yes, i see it. it frustrates me. people with no military warpednce tend to have a perception of what the military experience is all about as a function of some of the high visibility stuff they say. i am not going to dismiss the sometimes people do not have challenges as a result of fighting a war. these things are no minor issue when it comes time to just live your life as a civilian. the military experience by and large is one that is very positive for most individuals and orients them to be very reductive in society. he feels like he is a leader among his peers and his

neighborhoods and i think that is what is true. this is why employers should take advantage of those with military experience. what they bring in terms of morale. host: you brought up disabled veterans. , courtesy of that "slate." veteransaid disabled $14.8 billion in 2000. to $39.4r rose in 2011 billion. matthew is up next as we talk to iraq ward carroll -- as we talk to ward carroll. good morning. caller: is there data