>> it seems to be sure that whether or not they are seeing commercials for health care policies or political ads, 2014 will be there. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> on the next washington journal, what to expect from helder -- healthcare.gov. scott wilson joins us. then state health-care exchanges and online enrollment compared to the federal exchange. in recognition of the wonder 50 of anniversary, a discussion about the law in dealing with whistleblowers and it's effectiveness. plus, your calls and e-mails all on "washington journal."

>> i saw it. that look that he had on his face and i could close my eyes and see him on the stretcher right now. i can see him putting his hand up and his eyes. i close my and i can see it. i will never forget that first case. realitybringing me to about what was going on here. tent, theot into the initial triage and we see him and he goes into the tent and everybody goes to work. the other team goes to work. we got pulled in. myself and my colleague that wrote the foreword. becausegot pulled in the other team wanted us to begin right away. they do not want us to be bystanders. they said you have to get involved right away. once they did that and pulled us

in, it was like a joke. it was like, wake up. you have to act. you have to be a doctor. you have to be a surgeon thomas a care provider. you have to dismiss your emotions. you have to cut that away. that away. you have one objective -- say this guy's life. you have to stop the bleeding. you can get him back home to his family. >> in his first book of the doctor uses his military experiences to talk about his position in afghanistan. more later on q and eight. governorscan discussed their party's message. they include governors rick perry of texas and mary fallin of ohio. they are joined by byron york.

and gop strategists. ableevent was part of the meaning of republican governors held recently in scottsdale, arizona. it is just under one hour. >> if you could come in and take your seats, we will start right away. we will talk about messaging in 2014 and what we have to do to actually have a more successful 2014 and 2016 than we had last year. i have to tell you it is so great to have governors appear that are actually getting things done in their own state -- governors up here that are actually getting things done in their own state of life, unfortunately, too many washington republicans. i am looking at john kasich right now and i am so glad he is here. he is the reason i got into politics. so you can blame john. i was 28 years old and i was watching john on the house floor.

and instead of john just saying we don't like bill clinton's budget, john kasich made his own budget. he worked with tim penny and they went on the floor in the middle of this debate and they talked for about 30 minutes, 45 minutes about their vision of how to balance the budget and how to move this country forward. so when i went out on the campaign trail, instead of just criticizing bill clinton, when people asked me what would you do? what would you vote for when you got to washington, d.c., i said that i would do what john was talking about doing. we didn't like hillary's health plan so we had two or three different republican ideas for health-care plans. newt helped put together the contract with america so we went out and we had a positive on the construct it approach in the campaign. and it made a big difference.

you remember earl hutto? you served with him. i ran against a 16-year incumbent, a democrat named earl hutto came from a district that hadn't elected a republican since 1873. and they hung the last republican they sent up to washington, d.c. for me.idn't even vote we had ideas. you are laughing because you agree with my dad. but how important is it that, in 2014 and beyond that we, instead of being the party of no, we have a positive path forward like all of you have. >> the story is in 1993, we put this alternative together. the republican conference was very nervous about this. so we had this big conference meeting. i think that they there were 35

speakers here and 33 of them said there is no way we are presenting an alternative to clinton. this is crazy. we will get attacked. so i went to the back of the room and newt was there. i tell them that there were 33 no and two yes. and he said we thought we were doing better than we were. ideas give you energy. if you don't have any ideas to the positive, you don't have any energy. and if you don't have any energy, you are not appealing. there is a tendency to rely on negative and anger and all that stuff. that doesn't create any imagination, any vision, any excitement for anybody if you do things that way. you are having to deal with the crazies like me in 1995 and 1996. >> thank god you were there. >> well, yeah, we blew ourselves up because we were so negative and we so focused on being

against the bill clinton. once we got up there, it took us a while to figure it out. >> one thing that people never understood about the shutdown was that the clinton administration was trying to cook the books. they had phony economic numbers. they were projecting the economy would grow by 4% or number five percent -- i don't remember the numbers. they were unrealistic. you didn't have to reform the government to get to a balanced budget. that was a fight worth having. after having gone through that, i ask a had members of the administration come to see me and say, ok, we want to really engage in this again. in that case, the shutdown resulted in something positive and something that could be attained. we ended up doing negotiations, the 1997 agreement, balanced budget, paid down the largest amount of debt in american history, had a growing economy.

in that case, you have to stand and fight but you have to have an achievable objective long haul. >> and a positive message for it. let me ask you, governor perry, about a moment during a debate -- we are talking about being positive. immigration. it is a positive moment for you come i think. it is a positive moment for you. >> that is a pretty short list. >> this was really positive. you talk about being positive on something like immigration reform. i am not saying that pathway to citizenship or pathway to legalization, but you just talked about the need for our party to be compassionate. we needed to be compassionate and you got absolutely killed for saying that. i will even go a step further. mitt romney decided that he needed to lurch his for-one extremist possible and it ended

up killing us. how do we win that hardware, not only at the governor's mansion but also in debate like that? how do we as a party do more of a positive message? >> i think you are right, joe and mary will agree with this as well. historically, republicans have talked with their mind. we like to dump all the statistics out there. we are the number one state for job creation or the number one this for that. we pitch all of these cold and sterile facts out. what may be a better way to message this is that being the number one job creating state in the nation is about a family that is being able to take care of themselves better. it is about the young hispanic who five years ago didn't have a job or may have had a minimum- wage job that best and today they are driving a truck in

south texas because of the energy boom that has occurred in that sector, making over $100,000 a year. and how that young man and his wife and the home they are living in, they are talking about their children being able to go to an institution of higher learning, the first in their family who has ever done that. that is occurring because of the policies that have been put in place by republican governors in most cases. i want to really get us to focus on talking about how we transition the conversation away from washington as the place where all of the decisions will be made and the solutions -- they will not be found in washington, d.c. nine they will be found in capitals where governors like john and mary and myself and paul lapage -- i mean, that is where the solutions that are going to face

americans. we don't need to talk negative about the president of the united states. he has taken care of that pretty much on his own with his health care program. but what are the alternatives? i happen to think that the alternatives are not one-size- fits-all, that washington all too often wants to impose upon us, but allow the innovators in ohio, allowed the innovators in oklahoma -- i believe that a blue state governor has got to feel that they can put health care plans in their state together better than some bureaucrat in washington, d.c. talking to people's hearts is that messaging part of it, whether it is dealing with immigration, which i will suggest to you a just as an aside that the immigration debate will change substantially

in the next 18 to 24 months especially if mexico is successful in liberalizing their oil and gas exploration policies and allow the private sector to come in and probably contract and then look at the concessions later on -- completely change the immigration discussion. and i would recommend that the discussion will be where will we find enough people to fill all the jobs that will be created in this country because all those people that came over here illegally will be back home. because of what i hope occurs in the north american region, canada, the united states, and mexico, to collectively become this very powerful energy- producing region that is independent of other areas of the globe for energy. the messages about the heart rather than the head.

and nothing wrong with the head. >> nothing wrong with the head. alex, that really has been our problem. byron was talking about this before. it used to be that we were great at explaining how less government and less regulation actually mattered in people's lives. we have forgotten how to connect our beliefs and make them relevant like margaret thatcher did. shopkeeper's daughter. she knew that what she believed was a just good for a multimillionaire. it was good for working class citizens who wanted to rise. there is a lot of that story in this great new book i just read by joe scarborough. i highly recommend it. [laughter] >> go, speak, preach. >> the head and heart informed

with reason and persuade with emotion. that has always been our dictum. but we have moved beyond marketing. marketing is for selling things that don't work. when you have something that works, you serve. and then you tell people about it. and even in telling them, you are doing a good thing. i think one of the things we ought to remember is our ideas are not old and dusty things on a shelf that are irrelevant to the world we are in today. as a matter of fact, the world we are in today, a highly connected world where we are not cogs and gears and some industrial factory in washington. we make decisions. we have information. our and suppose that we have always -- that we have always had, they are actually the best way to tackle problems and help people live better lives. if we are going to talk to a new generation of voters and we will

be an inviting party, we speak to them about their world. when we say things like free enterprise, it is hard for them to connect. but when we talk about an open economy, a bottom-up economy, those are our principles. and the world they live in, open things is better than closed things. bottom-up is better than top- down. to connect in their world -- obamacare didn't fail because, hey, they just didn't happen to do this right. it failed because of the same reason that other stuff fail. it is old. it is top-down. it is factory. our principles are always fresh and new ideas if we just become out them in ways that say, hey, our principles are good for more than just saying no. we have a way to better organize society, solve problems, open school system, where parents get to actually choose the best school for their kids and you go

get trapped in a failing school. an open health care system. an opened economy where you don't have political top-down decisions. those are the kind of things that will work better for you. >> i want you to join in with what we are talking about here and the positive message and the constructive way forward to but also, if you can -- forward. but also come if you can, about the energy revolution. so many people who are responsible for it are from your state, talk about the energy revolution and what that will mean, not only for working class and the class people in oklahoma but, if we do it right, or millions in loans of americans. >> i think that is where the white house is missing the point, how we can grow america's economy and treat not only a better national security -- and create not only a better

national security for our nation but a better economic security for our nation. oklahoma, texas, pennsylvania, ohio, other states -- certainly alaska and north dakota who have tremendous natural resources where there is oil, gas, wind in oklahoma, certainly a big feature, we are creating economic opportunity, raising our standards of living, creating jobs and there's a trickle down effect throughout our state and other businesses even unrelated to the intersect the energy sector because of the growth of the energy industry so. but you also have to have the right regulatory environment which is where washington typically gets it wrong. currently, the administration gets it wrong. and our state, we allow private investment. we allow people to take risk. we create the right business climate by keeping our relations fair and being responsive and looking at workers compensation reform or hiving -- or having a highly educated labor sector.

people in the past said, well, we really don't have enough fossil fuel supply. but now we know, through technology and innovation, having the good and fair regulations, that we do have energy supply. so my state of oklahoma, since 2011 when i took office because of our business-friendly policies, education, reform we have done, making government smaller and more efficient, we have seen our economy change. the per capita income has grown by 8% for a family of four. >> it is self-defense. you have a guy who will steal every last job from you if they can. he is glad they are up here

right now. while we are up. talking, he had his people on the phone to ohio and oklahoma stealing their jobs. >> we fish where the fish are. and generally speaking, i am's ending a lot more time in california or illinois and new york than i am in oklahoma. >> we just beat him in football. [laughter] >> you know how to hurt a person, mary. >> but listen to talk to you about the pro-business environment and see what governor perry has been doing for over a decade. there was a great moment when mikael gorbachev was talking to the canadian prime mr. mulroney and gorbachev said don't lecture me on your capitalism and your fan a prize. mulroney said i'm not going to lecture you. do you think i want competition? that sort of competition, you don't care if you -- you don't

care of california and jerry brown straighten it out. >> i want tell -- to be successful because they are so important to our country, but you're not going to be better, whether you are an athlete or whether you are a private sector business person or a governor and a government unless somebody is pushing you to be better. she makes me get up every morning because of the policies she puts into place. bobby jindal pushes every day on tax policy and regulatory climate for us to be more competitive. rick scott in florida, i guarantee you that guy is working double overtime to put policies in place that make me uncomfortable. but we understand, although it is uncomfortable, it will make us better. and at the end of the day, it is better for our citizens. i don't go to california to pimp jerry brown. i really don't. i go to pimp the legislature to do the things that are right for their people. unless we're there and talking about, listen, there is an alternative -- i mean, i am

standing in laguna beach talking to 30 individuals who were curious about our little at a campaign and they came to listen to what we were talking about. and the sun is going down, touching the pacific -- laguna beach. we are at the montage hotel. what an incredibly beautiful part of the world. and i said that is exhibit a of how government could screw it up so bad that you would leave that. that is the type of competition that will make this country stronger. it is the governor's putting tax and really torry and legal policies into place that will make these -- and regulatory and legal policies into place that will make these states more competitive. in illinois and new york and even california, at some point in time, their people will say, you know what?

you just can't continue to tax us. we will leave here. and they will either go bankrupt or they will change their policies. and at that time, don't you think america will be stronger? >> the ohio house today -- it may be happening right now in -- is passing a resolution calling for a constitutional convention for a federally balanced budget. you want to put some strings on the folks in washington and you want them to get to a position where they will act responsibly and they will start making decisions like we have to make? we can get to up to 32 states doing this. they will move quickly to do something. serving as the budget committee chairman in d.c. and governor of ohio with the largest deficit in our history now balanced with a surplus, we want to get them to focus on doing their job. we all have to get behind this, republican governors, democratic governors.

we have $17 trillion debt. it is sucking a lot of the life out of our country. we have the chinese using american dollars that they take from us to recycle in places around the world with the influence they have. we've got to balance the budget. it will restrain them. it will lead to greater economic growth. it is time to get back on this again. i think it is one of the most important issues the country faces. it will be interesting to see if democrats and if liberals recognize the fact at some point they have to be responsible in that town and meet the challenge of these deficits. >> you have been fighting it your entire public life. that is exciting. let me ask you. i have been struck since i'm in here by how many people are concerned that the republican party will repeat the same mistake in washington, d.c. that they made over the last several months.

you know, the government shutdown idea was a great idea. you have governors were pulling their hair out. ken cuccinelli will tell you that he is still pulling his hair out. he lost. have we learned our lesson? will they make the same mistake again in january? >> no, i don't think they will. it is savannah going to happen. i was talking with representative michele bachmann it is definitely not going to happen. i was talking with representative michele bachmann. she said, can you believe it, they shut down the government because of the difference between cbo numbers and omb numbers.

isn't obamacare much more important than that? >> that was an oversupply actually. >> but you have a party, the republican party that, with everybody agreeing about obamacare, they want to get rid of it, they still managed to spill an enormous amount of each other's blood fighting over this. i think they have learned some lesson about that. certainly the leaders will say it will happen again. but i want to go back to something that alex said something before about the freshness of republican ideas. i don't think the public hears that. if you listen to the presidential debates of 2012 and 2008, other than barack obama, the name that was mentioned the most was ronald reagan. the couldn't stop talking about ronald reagan. a lot of their ideas were 1980 air a reagan ideas -- 1980 era reagan ideas. their idea was to cut taxes.

if your car breaks down, cut taxes. if you're houses on fire, cut taxes. if your lawn needs mowing, cut taxes. that was the only idea that they presented to voters. americans thought that they had very old ideas. >> they only felt that way because it was true. >> how many years have you seen the same commercial where a guy stands up and says i am for less taxes, less regulation and more freedom? we've been doing that since 1980 and, yes, we are all for that. but if that is the only message and we don't connect that to working-class voters -- by the way, in 1994 when we took over, we owned as a party working- class voters making like 30,000 dollars to $60,000. we dominated that area. >> your point about ronald reagan speaks to that.

reagan was a child of goldwater. that is what inspired me to get into politics. reagan could have echoed goldwater. anti-big government, anti- communism. not bad ideas, right? but he didn't just do that. again, he fit our conservative principles to his day and he added something to it. economic determinism, american determinism, economic optimism. we can do anything we want. there is a shining city out there. we have a rendezvous with destiny. what reagan did for his party it is now our time and our job to do for our party. and we have a wonderful argument. and that is that big and dumb and old and slow and top-down government doesn't work if they have served us up the most wonderful example of how dysfunctional -- why? because the information is down at the bottom and they are up at

the top get all of the old hollow arguments. we have seen what doesn't work. what does work? what republican governors are doing. governing bottom up. we have the sincerity. we can score points. we will win a survey argument. we will rally our base with that. moses didn't say, hey, i have a great idea. let's go to the desert. it is really hot there and dry. posterity will suffer a little bit, but it will be good. moses said let's go to the promise land. it is better over there. we have to go through this desert thing. we have to balance the budget. that is a good thing. we have to tackle social problems to organize society and tackle health care. if we have those things and that

balance budget fight, then we can meet people somewhere. >> you know what though, i don't disagree with that, but if you look at the success of republican governors, it is because jobs are being created. if you are not creating -- job created -- job creation is the moral imperative of people today. if people aren't working, they can lose their dignity. they can lose strengthen in their family, whatever the family might look like. commonsense regulation, no income tax -- if you think taxes don't matter, then why are my people moving to florida and texas? because we are taxing them. people respond to that. the fact of the matter is that, throughout the local history, it is jobs. it is jobs that elected roosevelt, the other roosevelt reagan got elected because we were mired in a deep, deep, deep recession and he said we can have a better way.

but it all gets back to jobs and the party that can show people that can get you to work, that they can improve your income, those are the ideas that we need to promote. so how do you do it? cuts. it with job, tax beyond that, you can't ignore people who live in the shadows. that's the heart. somebody is mentally ill -- you saw that tragedy in virginia yesterday. mental illness, drug addiction, working poor. you can't let people get stuck on the other side of the bridge to prosperity. so we've got to build a strong economy with the tools that it takes and we can debate those all day long. if you don't have balanced budgets -- let me tell you, my dad carried mail on his back. he would tell you, if those

people can't balance the budget, they don't understand common sense. but beyond that when you create the strong jobs you can't ignore people who want to get across the bridge to share in the bounty of america. sometimes in our party, sometimes in both parties there's a forgetfulness of what those people need to get unstuck so they can be successful and have our dreams. you think about the people that have lost their job because of sickness in their family. joe, they can't be ignored. i'm not ignoring them in ohio. it conveys two messages. one you give them hope and opportunity through work and a better tomorrow and if you get stuck we're going to be there to help you in whatever way we can. we will make sure that we measure so that we go from where you are stuck over the bridge. and that to me is a message that -- because i think it shows that we care. i'm going on here.

the thing i want to say -- joe, they did a survey -- they asked voters about romney and obama and romney won like four things. the fifth one was who understands our problems better? obama was 81 and romney was 19. why? they never kind of saw his heart. and he's a wonderful man. and i don't know why that happened. but when people have to know that you care about them, that you understand them and if they're stuck in a ditch you're going to put your shoulders to the back of your car and you're going to help push them out. you can demonstrate more of that. people will say that's kind of a new brand for republicans. create jobs, compassion and care. i think it works. >> i think in our nation that american people really worry about the direction our nation is going. if you look at the polls they tell you. america is very concerned about where our nation is going. i hear it on the street, with our family, i have people stop

me at convenience stores and tell me i'm concerned where our nation is going. what are we going o do to get it back? i think there are great amples with our conservative governors, our republican governors out there that are bringing forth solutions to address those problems. there is an old saying that says, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. show as a t to get party that we're going to do something about it and keep a word and do something about it. and that's the big difference what n where our party -- our party stands for. if you look at our individual states, the things that are going on, we are focusing on jobs, we are focusing on education. we are focusing on on trying to

make the health care system more amenable to the american people vs. this big government run can't even understand it, too complicated, it's not even working. we all know that. it's about the kitchen table issues. it's about -- my husband and i have six children. that's what we talk about at the kitchen table. we talk about paying for college. my husband talking about his business and regulation and we talk about taxes and we talk about our children being able to get a job when they get out of college are they going to be able to stay in oklahoma? they're going to have to move somewhere else. it's about just paying bill, making the house payment. we talk about those issues about taking care of our health. it's about families that might have a problem with substance abuse or mental illness, you know, talking about those things that really impacts a family and a business and something that people can relate to. >> yeah. and you talked about it, americans being nervous and

americans being scared. byron, they are. for a long time democrats stopped talking about the bush contracts. they're the reason the rich are getting richer and the poor keep getting poor. barack obama gets elected. the rich keep getting richer and the poor keeps getting poor. a lot of it has to do with the fact we're more product ever. an i.t. revolution. i saw some statistics that said that if american industries are operating the same level of that they were in 199320 to 30 million more people would be working today. how do we alleviate the worrying and the suffering that so many middle-class americans feel like they're being left behind in this idea of revolution where the rich do

keep getter richer and the poor do keep getting poorer. >> the thing that the governor just said were the entirely opposite message than what came from the nominee of the republican party in 2012. there's absolutely no doubt about that. there were two problems with what alex said about marketing is right. the actual substance was wrong here. and because republicans had not been able to get past a lot of this 1980 sense, with their last truly successful president. but in 2016 the election of ronald reagan will be 36 years in the past. and they'll need to show people move beyond that and what they did in 2012, it was interesting ith so many people suffering so much economic anxiety they chose to focus on entrepreneurs, business. if you look -- i mentioned this

before, i want to say it again, if you look at the word cloud. an analysis of the words that were spoken from the podium from the democratic convention and the republican convention. democrats use middle-class more six, seven times than republicans did. e big word republicans business. freedom. they did not connect with the anxieties. >> and you're about to talk about mitt -- how devastating was that 47% remark? which he also said the day after the election explaining his words. >> he did. as a matter of fact at this very meeting that news came out. he said it on a do nor call. he said obama had won by giving a lot of gifts. and the governors here were appalled. they were depressed anyway because it had just been this

big defeat for republicans. but it really ran through this meeting, the news that governor romney had said this again. >> again. >> but it did stend wrong message and the celebration that governor romney did of entrepreneurs. here's my friend jimmy john. he started making sandwiches in his garage and now he has 1700 restaurants. well, that's actually pretty good. how many people here make a living that you tarred and run? it's not very -- that you started an run? it's not very many. most work for somebody else and they're worried about that. republicans in so many ways never addressed that. and that is the question for republicans in 2016 whether they will have a candidate who can actually address those concerns in a real way. >> you know, governor perry,

talking about this, talking about giving hope to american who are scared, my dad worked for lockeed. got laid off in the early 1970's. was out of work for 18 months. made him more of a republican. not less of a republican. he believed that by voting republican he had a better chance of the economy growing because he felt republicans understood what is supposed to get us through a recession. the kind of sense on the national level that people in my dad's position may not still believe that. >> and i think we see it -- wall street's doing pretty good. matter, wall street's doing real good. there's this disconnect between plue collar -- i'm pretty blue collar. growing up on a cotton farm in west texas is pretty blue collar stuff. my dad if you ask whame

my dad if rty -- you can him what political arty he is, he will say he's democratic. who will put policies in place that are best for our family? and governors in red states i think over the next 12 months we prepare for those 2014 elections, these governor that are creating jobs, that are creating an environment where people get to keep more of what they work for, i think we have a great opportunity to reset, you know, the mentality in this country about what really is important. and what's really important is how can i best take care of my family? what are the policys that are going to be implemented that

affect me directly? obviously this health care discussion is really important. and i don't know how it's all going to finally play out, alex. but my instinct is that if we thoughtfully have a conversation with the american people of don't you think it's better if you're living in ohio for john kay second -- casek and the democrats and the republicans to deliver health care, to put personal responsibilities into place, maybe you have a health savings account, i don't know, just a menu of ideas and concepting for them to pick and choose from but allow for john and his colleagues in the legislature to define that and put it into place and for washington -- if i'm -- if i'm boehner or if i'm harry reid, i would love to get away from that issue. i'm kind of like, you know

what, maybe that granting deal is not such a bad idea here. >> yeah. >> let me follow up. and i'm going to ask you this question first, alex. and then i'm going to ask it specifically, will everybody on the panel, especially you two guys because you talk about having a blue col dad who's blue collar. what does rick perry's father think of people like rick perry? rick perry's father think about $1 funder that makes billion a year paying 15% tax rate while they're working their tail off around the clock? you're probably paying 28%, maybe 33, 34, 35%. what do they think about that? and why do we sit back and continue to allow that to happen? romney ended up -- what was his tax rate? >> 16%, 17%?

barack obama wasn't much better. i mean this seems so unfair whether you're in west texas or whether you're a milkman in ohio. and it seems to me we've missed the boat by blindly defending those types of tax breaks. i think we've allowed -- >> i want to get out of here alive, by the way. >> rick perry -- and another thing. i think rick perry's dad probably thinks that we've become the grey poupon party. and rightly so. we've allowed that to happen. when, in fact, in our hearts we're the opposite of that. the more you complicate government, the more rules and regulations, the more power you concentrate in one place, what happens? the guys with the money, with the lobbyist and the lawyers, that's folks here, we know who wins. >> right. >> that's not been the

republican party. the republican party has been the bottom up party where everybody gets equal opportunity -- not equal guarantee of results but everybody gets an equal shot. we used to speak that way we used to advocate policys that were like that. >> we used to nominate presidential candidates that -- and i hate to go back to it but i went to school until a place like eureka. hold on a second. think about this john kasek. think about who we've nominated in -- a guy in 2008 that ran the united states navy during the 1960's. in 2004 we nominate a dad who's dad was president. we had dole in 1996. but in 1992 we nominated a guy o was the east coast establishment. but are we wondering why we're

not connecting to farmers out in west texas and milk men in ohio? >> i don't think that's the issue. first of all, i know how i can get applause here and the stupid way we conduct presidential debates. now that was the dumbest -- >> hell, yeah. hell, yeah. hell, yeah. >> let me just tell you -- rick -- rick called me up one day and he said what do you think? i said i don't know even know what you're talking about. i don't remember anything on texas. the debates got everything on track. isn't this a more attractive way to do this to discuss the ideas and stop all the back and forth and the attacking one another. you're going to come through. number one the way we were picking people which was dumb and i hope they'll figure

something else out. secondly, my father's father was a coal miner. mother's mother never was taught to speak english. you know, blue collar -- >> which by the way, i agree with too. but you know what else, my mom and dad would tell me, joey work hard and you'll -- but you know what they also believed in a system that was fair. and none of them think that guys should be paying 15%, 16%, 17% tax rate while they're working their tail off paying twice -- >> when you add everything up for a lot of people and some people can avoid it, i understand that, you but when you're paying 50% that's not great. >> no, it's not. let me tell you what i think is the problem with the wage gap. and our education system is not giving people the tools to compete and win in the

industries with the jobs that exist. our education system k-12 is too mechanical. it is not flexible. it does not put kids out to where the jobs are. and it does not feed their great passions, joe. i mean, we need to save vocational education -- you can in an havc company you make up to $20,000. you could become an entrepreneur. our education system is not measuring the passions of our students connected to the 21st century jobs and it's hurting america. the "new york times" had an article about this. education is creating the great division in our country and our job training programs leave so much to be desired in america today, you have to lose your job before basically -- before people ll help you get trained. instead of training people while they're working to get the skills in an era of

advanced manufacturing and 3d printing you have to lose your job. that's the way the federal government runs these programs. it makes no sense. we're running a program using casino money. you have to educate them. you to feed their passions and you must have a flexible system that goes from pre-k to j. and j stands for jobs. and we can do it. it's happening with the republican governors. >> i talked before about the energy revolution in oklahoma and the great thing about the energy revolution from texas to oklahoma and everybody else, it's going to mean that the next 20, 30, 40 years we're not only going to have the most productive workers in the world, we're going to have the lowest energy cost and we're going to see manufacturing jobs coming back. i know you hear it, you've got business honers that say we can build the factories. but we may not have americans that are going to be able to work the jobs.

and we're talking about vocational training. what are you doing in oklahoma so when those jobs come, we have americans to put in there and have them qualified to do it. >> i appreciate all the discussions here. i want to make a point of to help our state's economy and our national economy is to create certainty within a certain state. there is so much uncertainty in washington, d.c. whether you have shutdowns, sequesters. i had an opportunity to leeped congress too. we all left congress and came back home to do something else because as governors we're getting things done. we have, you know, unlike those in washington frankly unlike the president, we have to get things done. they will kick us out of office if we don't do that. >> can you talk about the business owners? i have a lot of people who say scarborough, i used to be a

republican. i'm not one now. and all those people in washington, d.c. don't me plan ahead. forget next year, i can't plan away from the next quarter. there's so much uncertainty in washington, d.c. so people quit investing. they're sitting on their money. they don't hire more people. or extend their services. banks get a little leery about cars. house, buys apply conservative prince nals are still relllant today, , creating rnment the right work environment. education is the keto poverty and ignorance in our nation. if we can help people get a better education we can help them get the jobs that they need so they can become

productive citizens in our nation. hopefully to be able to keep them out of the substance abuse, out of our prisons, out of poverty itself. and here's what we're doing in oklahoma. and actually i'm trying to do it nationally. i have the opportunity right no to serve as the governor's association. my initiative is putting america back to work. it's called america works, education and training for tomorrow's jobs. what you find in smerk that you have companies that have moved oversees because you can't find the workers here or because of rules and regulation or some other type of policy. we're trying to make sure they return back to america. but in order to do that, in order to retain our jobs we have to have the right skill sets, the right education in our nigse be able to provide those employers with the skills they need.

right now america, we have a missadge. back in is the 65, 79% of the jobs only needed a high school degreing to reach that middle-class. that's your word byron, mied class. but now because of technology because of innovation because of how we travel across the world and we compete in an international global economy. now it's dropped to 79%. it's around 49% in our jobs in which means do we have a big skills cap? you can't just go show up with a high school degree and expect to get a job. you to simeds of skills, to red, to writ. nd so as a nation we're fallen

blind. we're 14th in reading. e're 25th in math our 34 nations. if we have to change our education system and we have to dress up our employers. > rick perry, final questions. >> you're going to win the heisman again. >> i don't have a clue. i played six-men football. [laughter] >> you're an aggie. you're supposed to be yeah, baby yeah. >> i will make a prediction at i'm very confident in and that is texas a&m will beat the hell out of l.s.u. this weekend. bring that on bobby jindal.

come on. bobby. >> let's open it up for questions. >> it's going to be baylor. >> we have a microphone? hand the old microphone. ok. then shout it out. >> can i ask the first question? >> you can ask the first question. >> what the governor said not to take anything way, way from education, but you gloss over the question about fairness. and he was asking about specifically taxes for billionaires with edge fund billionaires. and i ran into a member of congress, one of the leaderships -- >> that's in venture capital firms. >> right. >> google? >> i'm just saying that you have to think about. it's not just simple. economics is complicated. when you work in business you

begin to understand how people make decisions. whether they should have the 15% carry or not, i don't know. but the question is let's examine it in stead of doing it in a ray. maybe he said he was for the rich. > all the rich were in the 70's. >> we lowered capital gains in 1997 and we got to a balanced budget because we provided incentives. you know what they're doing with it? they're buying twitter. i'm not telling you that -- i think we ought to have a flatter tax with fewer provisions. get the taxes flatter and get the corporate taxing down. that will help be