that i get, that the trust is horrible. it all starts with leadership. when people go to work and come back the moralize tonight, you look forward to going to were because of this lack of trust and teamwork and developing employees, it is devastating. as a taxpayer, it disturbs me greatly. i can say through the gentleman -- to the gentleman there, they do take surveys. these surveys go nowhere. and they give feedback do not get any feedback from the surveys. nothing changes. i think there is leadership at the top that should conduct 360's on a leadership all the way up the ladder.

host: thanks for the call. demonstrateankings there are a number of places that are not doing a good job for their employees or the american public. the reason we do these rankings is to make sure the individual you know is not one anecdote, but we are able to collect the data and demonstrate from a data perspective where things are working and where they are not. it sounds like, for your friends, it is not. there are a number of agencies where there are a lot of good actions were agencies are doing a lot of things, listening to their employees, and creating a culture where they recognize that if they empower the employees, the organization will do better. hope more leaders will pay attention to this. we are driving as hard as we can to bang the drum so that the

voice of the employee is actually heard. megan --el call from we have a call from macon. -- megan. one reason i think there are so many disgruntled federal employees, we have to work under legislation that we cannot affect and we cannot try to change. that is because of the hatch act. i know it is in place for protection, but when you get out people makingea, these decisions do not know how it affects us and what it is doing on the front lines. those of us that would like to change that cannot because it is against the law. one issue you highlight is congress is a big part of the problem.

seen,ghting that we have the lack of budgets, the lack of long-term energy that is put into thinking about how to do years,over multiple congress is a big contributor to the dysfunctionality. with respect to the hatch act, there are balancing equities at risk. the effort is to try to create a merit-based group of folks that are not involved in the political process so there is a sense of protection for the employee and the public. insights, you are right, the from line, they know things are better than anybody else, your insights should be communicated and heard by leaders in your organizations. that becomes a pipeline for congress to hear about what should change. that is what we are trying to drive towards. the best places to work

survey can be found online. we appreciate you coming in to talk about it with us. guest: thank you for having me. host: that will be it for "the washington journal." we're going to take you to the woodrow wilson center where they will have a conversation with tom shannon. he served as ambassador to brazil. he will be talking about the outlook related to his new role as secretary of state to john kerry. thanks for watching. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> good morning.

good morning to our good friends in the audience. i am jane harman. i am delighted to welcome you to this before the christmas holiday. the wilson center knows a lot about brazil. so does tom shannon. is thezil institute premier place in washington for dialogue on u.s.-brazil policy. we were first to honor the president of brazil. we sponsor the brazil economic conference. we host brazilian governors and legislators. air the good, the bad, and the ugly in our relationship. represents the good.

he is back in washington as senior advisor to secretary kerry. rumors abouts of his future. brazil is to be in bricks. russo was an alleged target of u.s. surveillance. addressed by mr. sharon. before asking tony to introduce tom, let me applaud the efforts of washington and brazil to move tot the snowden issues and reschedule president rousseff visit to early next year. i strongly disagree with what edward snowden did, but i welcome the public debate about

how we should restart, reset what we do on surveillance. as the two largest economies and democracies of the americas, our interests are more convergent than divergent. theom shannon likes to say, challenge for the u.s. and brazilian governments is to catch up and align policies to this reality. that is why tom shannon is here. he will help us understand the landscape in this post snowden era. let me turn the program over to tony harrington. he served as u.s. ambassador to brazil during the clinton administration. welcome, tony. >> thank you. thank you, jane. thank you for the fine

leadership that you bring to this important institution in washington. i first met tom shannon in 1999 when i was unexpectedly preparing to go to brazil as u.s. ambassador. mandate to update an important and under attended bilateral relationship. otero aboutaulos the same time. my appreciation and understanding of brazil. director atstaff the time and it was apparent that he was not only

knowledgeable about brazil, but had developed an unusual awareness and affection for the country while serving as assistant to a prior u.s. ambassador. help, wes advice and were able to conclude significant agreements and open new space in u.s.-brazil cooperation. rising star in our foreign service. he was white house senior .irector

the brazilian government was delighted to see him come back to brazil. he was nominated as an accomplished ambassador to longrned briefly enough to add a couple of gray hairs as secretary of political affairs at the request of secretary clinton. two jobs, one salary. year, tom was nominated and confirmed by the senate to the ambassador.er it is a rare recognition of extraordinarily distinguished members of the u.s. foreign 53vice, given to only diplomats over the last 50 years.

as jane noted, secretary kerry to the innerom circle as senior advisor and history continues to unfold. as ambassador tom was the architect between the u.s. and eriod offter a p someone lays in the relationship. in the malays relationship. president obama made an unprecedented early visit to to a veryhis address congregation, he observed it was time that brazil and the u.s. enjoy a level of engagement on par with that of u.s. with china and india for

example. it helped reset the relationship . the openness and engagement was a constructive step and it was followed by president rousseff visit here. as brazil-u.s.me strategic partnerships for the 21st century. agendas were set at the level that we need to get on with. this mutual high-level outreach would not have happened without the skill and diplomacy of our ambassador at work in brazil and back home. as we know, further elevation in the brazil-u.s. relationship was

emphasized by the state visit planned a couple months ago. visit, state visit to washington, was more than 18 years ago. all of you are aware of the depth elements -- the developments that led to the two presidents to announce the postponement of the visit. i hope the review of the national security agency intelligence programs will resolve questions that are recognized as legitimate. in so doing, this will permit andheduling of the visit

moving forward with the relationship. having paid attention to the relationship since i was ambassador, i believe the reasons that led president obama to make the invitation and president rousseff to accept remain valid and current. engagement iseper in the interest of both governments. the civil societies in both countries and the business sectors whose interest are , and policy objectives of the u.s. and brazil business communities are remarkably the same. i heard these influence of interests clearly stated and reiterated when i was in brazil the clinton global initiative in rio and then the

largest annual conference held by the national confederation of industry in brazil. both occasions addressed by president rousseff. opened thelinton clinton global initiative was also asked by the national confederation of ,ndustry to address the body but he was prevented because of in connection with a memorial for president mandela. cni told me itof was the largest gathering they had and several people called up saying they wanted to hear bill clinton do his thing. the awkwardness around the nsa thees in no way diminish

achievements of the service of our just returned ambassador, tom shannon. are fortunate to have him serving with secretary kerry. it has been a personal privilege to work with tom shannon for more than a dozen years, as i know it is a pleasure for all of us to have him with us here this morning to share perspectives that are unique on the state of relations and the future of relations in u.s.-brazil. we will have some time for

discussion moderated by brazil institute director paulos otero, as well. please help me welcome tom shannon. [applause] >> good morning. it is a great pleasure to be here. two jane harman, thank you so much to your welcome. to tony harrington, thank you for your kind words. my mother appreciates them. otero, thank you for the tremendous work you have done here at the institute. before we came out here, we were talking about the work that the and thewilson center brazil institute are doing on our larger western hemisphere issues. as many of you know, this is a busy town. a variety of

diversion and immediate interests and keeping our thoughtleaders and leaders focused on our larger neighborhood. sometimes it is a challenge. you have institutes like the issuea council expressing in trying to establish their own focus, then distribute to the richness of this field and the importance of it. i am grateful for the tremendous work that you have done here. thank you. this was built as a conversation with me, so i would like to make a conversation as quickly as possible. up tod like to open this address your interests and your concerns. want to saythat, i a few things and share a few thoughts. many of you know i spent nearly

four years in brazil. fortune ofthe good being asked by secretary kerry to work with him on broader issues. i am being globalized. my interest in brazil has not waned. brazil inserts itself deeper into the world, it's will not let me go -- it will not let me go. i will have a profound interest in u.s.-brazil relationships. brazil and unity you -- and the united states look to share cooperative pads that will benefit both of our countries. i was four years ago, invited by paulos to speak here. in that instance, i made a few assertions. the first was that, although

brazil had been described as an emerging power, i said that i did not agree with that. it was not emerging. it had already emerged. roles already exercising a as an important global player. it needed to be recognized and understood. i said that brazil's emergence was a product of its domestic transformation as it addressed long-standing social and equities like poverty, inequality, and social exclusion. they built a functioning democracy and created one of the largest economies in the world. a economy which was building large consumer base to middle class that was globalizing as it developed. putting brazil in contact with the united states and that this

new engagement with brazil, whether it was in the middle east, africa, asia, or in the americas, it meant that the united states had do -- had to understand brazil in a different light. brazil also had to rethink its relationship with the united states. that whilenoted grenville -- brazil in the united states had historically been friendly, there was a polite distance that we had gone about our business. increasingly, we have seen more connectivity between our thatties and our peoples was going to affect our diplomacy and foreign policy towards each other. with time, our people and werety were be going -- going to become the drivers of our relationship and not our government. i would argue that i was right in all of those assertions.

else, my four years in brazil have convinced me that they are still valued. id.val its own brazil has seen fair share of internal political with the many demonstrations we saw across brazil, this is evidence of the health of brazilian democracy. there is broad public space for citizens to demonstrate and protest and make their views heard. brazilian institutions have the capacity to respond in a meaningful way. understandahead, we brazil's domestic transformation , because it was done within a market context, has shown that

the market see -- democracy and the markets are not about status quo or protecting privileges. they are about creating space. the people themselves can have a central role in determining the developmental direction of a company. -- a country. this is a powerful message. it is a powerful message to countries around the world. whether it is moving from a target development model to ones of regional integration, and whether it is moving from isolation to globalization, i think brazil has laid out a pathway or an example of sorts that should being courage and. as just to the united states

we look to influence the world in ways that are meaningful to us, but also as countries try to determine how they can harness the peace and stability that democracy and markets can offer to address social challenges. view, ouroint of ability to work with brazil and engage with them, not just bilaterally, but globally, and to try to shape areas and methods of water ration, whether it is in methods of foreign assistance, agricultural, public pollutereas, a dressing -- peaceful resolutions -- ,ddressing peaceful resolutions or factoring broad trade agreements, how we relate to brazil and how they relate to us is going to be important.

striking things that has happened over the past several years has been the ouring connectivity between societies and people. the most evident and dramatic evidence of that is in tourism. over the past 10 years, our visa demand has increased by over 600%. it increased by 32% last year and continues on an upward swing, even with the brazilian economy has slowed considerably. ,he exchange rate has declined as far as brazilian consumers in taurus are concerned. this indicates brazilian society is globalizing at a fast pace. connectingare

broadly in the united states, whether it be as tourists or investors area -- investors. regard, what we are seeing increasingly as a response from the united states for growing interest in brazil and increase in tourism, although not at the same level we are seeing on the brazilian side. it is a dramatic increase in business and investment areas. the travel to the u.s. of governors, mayors, state economic development leaders, businesses, it has been remarkable. we have seen a significant increase in our bilateral trade. well over $100 billion in goods and services. this is a trade potential that is only being barely exploited. there is a lot more that can and should be done. the focus of our relationship on has been one of the

priorities of this administration. certainly, one of the priorities of secretary clinton. it remains a priority of secretary kerry. what is striking about the emergence of this new believe,ity is that i increasingly, our societies will determine the direction of our relationship. both of our governments, by anchorage and this, will build a balance in the relationship -- by encouraging this, will build a balance in the relationship. we are creating a constituency that will will demand our governments to solve problems that we might not be willing or prepared to address in the immediate moment. that will bring me to the disclosure portion eventually.

i get there, the larger point i want to make is that as we look at this relationship over the past several years, our purpose was to build what we call a 21st century partnership. i told the press when i arrived that, andin february it has become a mantra of the relationship. it was used as the slogan of our relationship when president rousseff visited the united states the first time. as we built out this 21st- century partnership and realize we needed to build a more solid and robust dialogue structure, we realized we needed to focus on the quality of dialogue. we needed to connect our governments at leader levels to ensure that our bureaucracies had clear direction and impetus to move forward on important issues. that our points of

view converged. this does not mean they were always the same. there are still some stark differences. what is important, we found important areas of cooperation and concern. whether it is around climate change, food security, transnational crime, the proliferation of weapons, just to name a few. as we did this, we recognized that we needed to build a 21st- century platform for this relationship. real of you who are brazilianists and can remember when we had consulates in many , along with our embassy ourio de janeiro and

consulates, over time, that has shrunk down to an embassy in brazil and consulate general's são paulo. havingructure, consulates on the coast and an is likein brasilia having a consulate in cleveland. it doesn't work. the president's decision to authorize us to open or reopen consulates in two cities was an important step in expanding our presence on the ground and tapping into a very large, passive population of potential

visitors to the united states who had not been able to travel because they were unwilling to travel to the coast or to brasilia to look for the says. it also expands our commercial investment our reach. it is my hope over time that we will be able to expand our presence even further and build back the kind of geographic presence that we need to address a country of continental proportions. component oftant our 21st-century platform is rebuilding our brazil experts. centerpiece of our hemispheric diplomacy for a long time. because of the consulates we had in the region and the u.s. presence, we had a large number of portuguese speakers who knew

it well, andknew served there for several iterations, and who we could call upon to help understand what was happening in brazil. and 1990's,1980's and through attrition, that changed. of our hemispheric policy became spanish-speaking focus. the decline in usaid presence, the exit of the peace corps and the decline in our geographic presence, we began to languageportuguese expertise and brazilian language expertise. that has all changed. it has changed because of the enormous demand for visas. we have hundreds of young officers who have done their

urs there.second to we are replicating what we had several decades ago and i think this is going to be important for our diplomacy because it will create familiarity with brazil and an understanding of eal with brazild over time. we remain convinced that the united states and brazil continued to build a strategic harness ship. by strategic partner -- partners hips. what can either country get from each other? how things change with a strategic partnership is the transactional nature remains to a certain extent, but why it is

strategic, both countries work together to shape, and understandings of the world. this can only be done through the kind of dialogue that we keep building over time. unfortunately, the decision by both presidents to postpone the october state visit was the product of the snowdon disclosures. it has created a challenge to build this type of strategic partnership because it has interrupted a dialogue that was nascent, but of growing importance. i believe we can recover that moment and that we have to recover that moment. it would be for the benefit of both countries, not just our governments and state positions, but more important for our own citizens. we need to understand how brasilia investing in the united states and brazil investing in

the u.s. and how we can enrich the lives of our citizens and how it has relevancy to the daily lives of our citizens. that will make it unique in our larger diplomatic efforts in the hemisphere. will underscore the importance of our diplomacy. brazil ingaged with several levels. technically, with our intelligence community, led by james clapper. meeting to address their concerns about the disclosures. a political engagement in which the minister of justice traveled to the united states to meet with u.s. , including the vice president of the united states.

severalve been conversations and meetings between president rousseff and president obama as they try to sketch out a pathway forward out in thes challenged larger relationship. thewhite house released results of the presidential review group that was investigating the impact of technology on information intelligence gathering. that is the first step towards a larger review of how the united does use intelligence and will form the basis to reengage with the brazilians and make our own suggestions on the best way forward in that relationship. the brazilians have waited with a certain expectation to what we are going to be able to offer them and how we are going to be able to move forward in the aftermath of the disclosures.

we do not have a clear pathway yet, but we will. we will look at the recommendations that have been issued by the review group at this point. i don't have a whole lot more to say in that regard because this is a workin in progress. states and brazil have worked in international forums. resolutions related to disclosures have been presented. the united states and brazil, along with other partners interested in things like internet governance, riotous he

is a human rights, and the role of espionage, we have been able to fashion texts that the united states has joined consensus on. this is an important step. it realizes that both of our governments have the capability of understanding the concerns of the other and addressing them with a larger environment. just yesterday, the un's general assembly voted on a resolution out of the third committee in which we were able to join consensus. that is a positive sign. appreciative of the way the brazilian government has handled the recent communication of edward snowden to the brazilian people and his effort

to solicit asylum from brazil. ir response is noted and welcomed by the united states. thes evident that what snowdon disclosures have done, aside from creating a level of se at one part of our relationship, we have , both among usm brazilian a hunger tois continue our engagement and to continue to look for ways to fashion a more fluid and productive business and investment relationship between the two countries. in this regard, i think we have a lot to work from. we continue to see a huge flow of brazilian students to the united states, which will continue to have a big impact on american universities,

especially american graduate programs. be influx of students will the largest influx of students from the western hemisphere that we have seen so far in the 21st century. in that sense, i think the impact of resilient students on american universities and graduate programs is going to continue to be large. earlier,cated law -- the visa demand has not slacked off. it grows at an important rate. it creates an urgency for both governments to find a way to address the problems and the questions raised by the snowdon disclosures. this is what we are committed to. we are committed to a larger relationship with brazil that understands we occupy different laces in the world and we have different sets of interests, but ultimately we are committed to

interests that are similar and compatible. as we think about the u.s.- brazil relationship, it is worthwhile to take a step back and understand how it fits in a larger international environment. many of you are familiar with whererase "the long war" was said that while we might walk away from our enemies, our enemies will not walk away from us. argue that although the united states still faces significant security challenges around the world, while we still have enemies that will pursue us wherever we are, we are in a different kind of environment, and given what we have seen with the rise of china and india, the insertion of these giant societies into international economies, the emergence of countries such as brazil,

turkey, south africa, mexico, indonesiaa -- mexico, , and the emergence of these --ieties have drivers societies as drivers of foreign policy and diplomacy, we are at a point where we need to understand our future well-being is about building partnerships and alliances. this will require a new focus and new energy in our diplomacy. while the long war might be present for us, we have the immediacy of a long diplomacy. that will require us to rethink how we engage in the world and the kind of partnerships we want to build. regard, i think you can be a bellwether. reasons that i have described here, it is also

important to understand that brazil has emerged into a world and is a part of a larger network of countries that are calling on reform and renewal of international institutions at a time in which there has been no cataclysmic events that forces us into reforming or renewing these institutions. the institutions are less capable of the dressing the larger problems that the world faces, so our momentumo reestablish in the u.s.-brazil relationship and to ensure a gets back on a meaningful track that both of our governments and societies want, that will have a big impact on our ability to conduct this kind of diplomacy. now,ately, many years from much of what we consider to be important will not be seen as

important. much of what occupies our every day will fall away and become history. what will be remembered and judged by historians is our ability to accommodate these rising powers, to transform and renew the institutions that we have created over time, to be responsive to the larger challenges that the world faces, and to do so in ways that promote international peace and security, would also promote bilityrity and the a for individuals to determine their individual destiny. means not only opportunities and resources, but an environment in which each of us is respected. i believe the united states and brazil, because of our broad commitment to democratic values

to human rights, to open society, we are in a unique lace to do this. there is an urgency for us to recapture the direction and purpose of our relationship and i hope you all share this. there, like to end reminding ourselves that this is the 100 anniversary of a scientific expedition to brazil. captured in the book "the river of doubt." picture on the floor deck of a vessel as a debarked and began their land track to the river of doubt. it is a remarkable photograph. he is dressed in navy whites with white shoes and his hair is .licked back

he is proud. dressed in camping , with his hat off, here messed up, glasses slightly and slightly scrunched and looking at the camera as if he was wondering what was happening. it was a remarkable moment in the sense that it captured a proud and successful man with a roosevelt who had seen and done much and had much more to do in his life. what was striking about the trip was to have two men of large egos and purpose in such close quarters for so long and to have them travel down the river with no hope of coming out alive at anticipation or

expectation that they were on a historic journey that would identify a source of the amazon and accomplish something that was going to be important to brazil in the world, it was remarkable. imagey ways, this is an for a larger u.s.-brazil relationship. friendship, courage, and purpose can accomplish a lot in this world. thank you very much. [applause] >> now for the conversational part of this. i would like to tell those who are following this on the , you canr on c-span send us questions if you wish. it is through our twitter account. just before i open for questions, to complete the story

that ambassador sharon just thatoned about roosevelt, river, the river of doubt during the trip was renamed the roosevelt river. it as the refer to theodora. we call people by their first names. would like you to identify yourselves, wait for the , so he knows who is asking the question. my name is bill. it is a pleasure to see you again. , theentioned, and i agree future and past has been determined by the society. continue,or that to

don't we have to convince our in relationship to the security issues, that we are willing and will modify surveillance so that can be transmitted to brazil? politicians represent the society. we have to convince them. do we have to convince the , and ofof brazil first course there is a good section -- how do yout envision us going about that? that is my question. one of the challenges of is toatic societies

create space for the kind of dialogue that we have to have now. that is one of the reasons the president decided to name a presidential review group, to gatheringtelligence and the impact of information on the 21st century. space whereve a people could talk about this publicly. on of the challenges with issues of intelligence gathering is much of it cannot be talked about publicly. i think the presidential review group has done a good service in laying out a universe of options for the united states that will serve as a basis for a larger conversation. concerned,razil is we have a lot of work to do. as to the brazilians themselves.

going to have to take place at a variety of levels at the same time. some will be done between leaders, diplomats, intelligence officers, but some will be done more broadly and in the public sphere. one of the opportunities that has been presented to us is an ability to engage with our public about intelligence work in the 21st century. and understand what information technology means for us. if you look at the disclosures issue closely, what you have is of 21st century technology and a mapping of the internet. you have a recognition that the way we communicate is changing

fundamental understandings that we have about things like privacy and individual agency and our own behavior. much of this is not related to intelligence agencies at all. it is related to large companies and how they use bulk data and metadata and how they predict and try to influence how consumers behave. in many ways, we have been a window into this century and it will allow us to make some fundamental decisions about how intelligence is we want tond how structure information in our communities and societies. a couple of observations from my visit last week, meeting with the business ,eaders and several congressmen including an influential senator of the president's party. this is not a representative

sampling, but the basic theme was, we would like to get on with it, get past this. i think within thought leaders and influential parts of brazil, there is a desire to move on with the relationship in a constructive manner. this particular senator had been a part of the delegation that came and met with the vice and he wasiden pretty warm about it, including said i grew up precepts, never trust anyone over 70, and don't trust washington politicians. i would like to ask you to trust me and violate both of those. , are is also an interest in

great challenge and opportunity for collaboration in the involving scheme of governance of the internet that brazil and be,u.s. could be, should and probably are prepared to cooperate on. >> thank you. >> hi. the u.s. government has said discuss a ready to new date for the brazilian president to visit the u.s. have you received any sign from the brazilian side that they are ready to discuss and how likely is it that the visit will happen at the beginning of next year? considering your engagement and havevement with brazil,

you personally experienced the problems question mark how frustrated were you with what happened? yesterday we had a concrete example of the consequences with the decision of the brazilian .overnment how did you see that? pleasure of beginning my tenure with wikileaks and ending it with snowden. when i tell -- what i tell people is we have seen the enemy and he is us. diplomacy and representing a country like the united states is not about personal experience. it is about a responsibility and a duty, not only in this regard to president obama and the government, but more broadly to

the people of the united states of america. ands an honor and privilege we try to do the best we can. , fore a section for brazil respect for- i have brazil and for brazilians. the deeply committed to u.s.-brazil relationship and building the kind of partnership i talked about. finding myself in a situation in which we were going to have to slow down what we were doing diplomatically, or look for other ways to express this partnership, what is frustrating -- it was frustrating at one level, but at the same time, these are challenges we relish because it allows us to show what we are capable of and it tests our conceptual understanding of relationships.

it allows us to expand the context of our diplomatic activity. in terms of the decision .esterday, related to the fx2 congratulations to the brazilian air force. this is something they have wanted for a long time. late,ow, it is coming too but it is an important step for the brazilian air force. we are disappointed. boeing did tremendous work in brazil, and it will continue to do tremendous work. affect the kind of cooperation that we have developed over time with the brazilian air force. noted, we have seen clear

signs from the brazilian government that it is prepared to engage with us in a meaningful way on issues related to disclosures. whether it be in international , such as unesco, the un's general assembly, but also its response to snowden's request for asylum. i feel good about where we are right now. this is an ongoing discussion we are having. we have made it very clear that we are prepared to reschedule. i think our conversation with the brazilians have to write them a little bit before we get a response from them. -- have to right them a little bit before we get a response

from them. >> hello, ambassador shannon. address and opening comments have made an effort to answer the question that i'm going to ask you again. back, i wouldgo like to ask you, how do you address the skeptics in this town question mark some of them are here, some of them are floating about. who would point to the going tenure, thenyour to the reaction to the msa disclosures, -- the nsa germans reaction was greeted with greater understanding and perhaps brazil. a tendencystill have

to understand brazil's reaction -- >> we will break away. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] the u.s. house is gaveling in.

candidates have the capacity to engage in this debate because of its presence in the world. one thing i thought the ambassador was going to mention was that you have an increasing number of brazilian global companies. there are about 30 of them. some of them are importantly in the united states. there is only one company that has five subsidies in the united states.

the united states was going down. affairs. said, i junot believe the united states is losing importance in the world. this is -- she said, i do not believe the united states is losing importance in the world. a country dates is with an extraordinarily flexible economy with a great capacity to invent -- reinvent itself. the united states has something

that i value very much and that we have to pay attention to. she repeated 4 times the word "education." there is a debate about the quality of education. what it requires, what will leadership here and there to make those interests. this is an cleanly out of order because i am not supposed to be saying any of this. >> ambassador, it is a pleasure to have you with us. you give such a coherent presentation. i know you choose your words carefully. i want to do address this phrase to a dress this phrase

of the disclosure problem. probably one of the only people in the room who has sued the u.s. government for warrantless --e type -- wire type wiretapping. we could not prove standing. it was numeral two months before the snowden disclosure. weleads us to wonder if could have proved standing 2 months later. choosing the phrase the disclosure problem makes it seem less serious than it actually is. just on a human rights level and the right to privacy. it is on a political level and it fundamentally has to do with trust. i understand corporate as well as domestic. i would like to hear you respond to that. it discounts the seriousness of what is happening. education ando

the number of brazilian students coming here to the united states, which is in enormous. how is it going from the u.s. to brazil. i have the sense it is much less. i do not know the numbers. could you talk about that and what you see in the future on that side? less.is i do not have the exact figures. i think that will change over time. americansly, when have done overseas university students, it has been focused -- university stints, it has been focused on europe. that is starting to change. we're seeing more americans going to mexico and more are going to argentina. as we buildpe that out our component of education s 100,000 strong,

we will be able to build a larger u.s. presence in brazilian universities. in order to do that successfully, we need to help resilient universities. many brazilian universities are not equipped to take international students easily. they do not have dormitories. they do not have international student programs. it falls to the student to find a place to live, support etworks, etc. some young students are very good at that. others want a more package to deal. there are a few brazilian universities that are beginning to understand this and are beginning to fashion mechanisms that will allow them to attract foreign students were easily from the united states and elsewhere. one of the things we hope to be able to do overtime with the science without borders program is use what is really a student

exchange program to build relationships between and solutions, between universities and to use that to facilitate the movement of faculty and the and tot of services break down the closed shop ,ature of universities especially when it comes to things like credits and degrees so that they can be shared easily. it is our hope over time to take a program, which is about , and use ittudents to build relationships between our educational systems and our laboratories and research institutes that are going to provide a much more vigorous and productive relationship for both countries. problems,f disclosure challenges, crises, outrage, i choose my words carefully.

we could call it something else. you could call it treason. that focuses on snowden. >> i agree. what i want to be able to do is recognize the seriousness of the issue, recognize the impact it has had on the relationship and on brazil's understanding of that relationship, but put it into a context in which it does not overwhelm the relationship, because i do not think it should . imagery is different i talk to the foreign ministry and it said -- he said it cast a dark shadow on the relationship treat others have used words like trust and respect. we are going to have to address all of that in some fashion.

. i believe the brazil and of this has been exaggerated for political purposes, not by brazilians themselves, but by snowden's handlers. much has been taken out of context. ultimately, we are in a position with the brazilians because of this, to rethink our liaison relationships. that is something brazil does poorly right now. brazil does not have an intelligence relationship that matches its global ambitions.

privileged place right now. it does not have external enemies. it does have adversaries and people who are interested in what is happening inside brazil. is the subject and the object of cyber assaults every day. brazilians know this. they are looking for ways to build capacity as they build out there he economy. their economy. they have a useful partner in us. they need to see beyond their own immediate concerns to build out that partnership, and especially -- that partnership, especially as they move toward the world cup and the olympics. acknowledged, this

is bigger than intelligence issues. this is how modern society manages the data flowing through our intelligence systems. this is going to require a or at least a thought process that is much larger than the one we have going right now. thank you very much for a brilliant exposition earlier on. it was anticipated a little bit, what i would like to ask you about. resilient starting to feel isolated on trade issues with the formation of the pacific alliance, the negotiations and others and the comments by the cni president in denver reflect some of that. the brazilians seem to be called --d by their anticipation

participation and certain kinds of barriers within their own protectionist society to make a breakthrough on trade issues. they have been talking to the eu for many years and have not gotten very far. that is one of the points that will be most important in strengthening the overall relationship between us and the brazilians. i wonder if you could say a few want -- ut that. >> we trade and more investment. that is why brazil is the focus of the president asked export -- the president's export initiative. we are prepared to go to great lengths to achieve that. is the verytening strong push from large industrial confederations like

bilateral trade relationship and trying to find aspects ofrcome brazilian trade and commerce that have limited our ability to penetrate certain markets. , the negotiations that are ongoing between brazil and the european union are an interesting beltway. it is increasingly clear to brazilians that they have large opportunities in europe, but they are being held back for a variety of reasons. some of them are domestic and some of them are related to the american relationship. we are not asking anyone to abandon their alliances or trading structures. resilientship between the european union could put someone in a position where you could imagine -- between brazil

and the european union could put someone in a position where you could imagine triangulation into south america or free-trade agreements that exist in south america or those that fashion -- are fashioned in brazil. it would create a fascinating grouping of markets as we look into africa and into asia. brazil has come a long way in a short time. when i was there the first time 1989 to 1992, the thought that brazil would be the home of major global companies and it would be a growing investor in the united states and that a company would have numerous subsidiaries operating and thatited states

another company would be a major supplier of original aircraft did not cross many people's minds. in a short time, they have covered a lot of ground. they have a lot more ground to cover. the councilently at of foreign relations council in new york where the minister of development was speaking. he said something meaningful to me and i think i will repeat it here. it helps with the context. he said brazil, over the past 30 years or so, faced and basically held a consensus over three major challenges. the first was democracy, followed by the challenge around economic stabilization. the consensus in brazil, do not try inflation on brazilians because you will lose. and the third is social

inclusion. withl has achieved a lot the expansion of the middle class. the middle -- the minister added, now is the time to face the challenge of competitiveness. is theer name of it challenge of making the brazilian economy a more open economy. you cannot deal with competitiveness in a closed economy hum as you cannot resolve innovation issues and become more innovative in a closed economy. i wanted to add this because it is relevant to the conversation. related toion is what he was talking about. >> how does the recent increase affecttheir brazil --

the relationship you have come to talk to us about and understand? thet is indicative of changes brent -- challenges brazil faces. if you look at what brazil have has able to accomplish, it done a lot of this on a consumer-driven growth model. that model has run its course. needs to build a growth model that is based on productivity and competitiveness. as you look out over the brazilian landscape, what is theking to me is that challenges the brazilian economy faces are several. the biggest and most pressing is infrastructure. ports, thebuild the highways, the railways and the

telecommunications systems to move goods and services? it in a timely fashion. brazil is the second-largest food exporter in the world. in still cannot get all of its product to market or to port or to the foreign destinations that by brazilian product. it has huge infrastructure needs that have to be addressed. it has significant human resource needs that need to be addressed. there is a worker corp it needs to fashion a 21st-century economy. its labor regime, its tax structure and the other eu nations and rules that determine how you start businesses and how you close businesses.

these are not problems that are hidden or known. brazilians understand this well. it has an advanced dialogue on how to a dress them. the infrastructure -- on how to address them. the regulatory drag is the hardest because it is political. it involves taking on significant interests within brazilian society. in some ways, the president has inherited the toughest part of brazil's economic transformation. the previous brazilian president cleared the space for a long- term positive growth path. the next president was able to inject capital into the system so that brazilians could take advantage of that long-term growth path and profit from it

and drive growth rates that were quite high. president took over this model just as a wall. it is up to her to find a new the challenges in the brazilian economy. her challenge the toughest of the three. but the good thing is as brazil has worked through these different parts of its economic development, it has globalized and become aware of what is happening elsewhere in the world. brazil is up to these challenges. the question is how fast. regard, brazil is uniquely positioned. there are very few companies -- countries in the world whose economic well-being is entirely in their own hands. that is true for brazil.

the decision it makes on infrastructure, education and regulatory reform will determine how fast it grows. if it makes the right decisions quickly, it rose faster and stronger. if it makes them more slowly or in a cap -- it grows faster and stronger. , itt makes no more slowly will not. >> this side of the room. former representative of the organization of american states. ambassador shannon nintendo a couple of times that the you in resolution of a general assembly , represented by brazil and shannon-- ambassador mentioned a couple of times of a

u.n. resolution. will it have a direct impact on the state of the relationship? noted, we joined consensus on that, which means we are fine with it. the reason we were able to join consensus is that the original text opposed by the initial conveners or those who altered the text, which included brazil, had to change some aspects of the text to broadly address our concerns. we recognize, as the resolution does, the importance of privacy and the importance of an internet, which is seen as a global public good and one that needs to be protect did. like so many u.n. resolutions, these are designed to capture a sense of the members of the u.n.

and to help provide direction. they are not binding. rarely do they have aspects to them that are implemented. but that does not mean they are important. are not they capture a political moment and a purpose that needs to be understood and respect did. we think the fact that we were able to work with our other partners and with brazil to fashion a text that we could accept was important and it shows that whatever brazil's intentions were when they started the process, they recognized they would not achieve everything they wanted to and that process. they had to make concessions that created a better environment for the kind of dialogue we are having. >> cindy? >> thanks. i am with the latin american program here.

thank you very much for your remarks. my question has to do with brazil's relationship with other countries in the hemisphere whether it be south america or more broadly. we have worked on some of this together. for the broad respect strength of the brazilian economy and what brazil has accomplished in terms of democracy. there is less willingness to cede leadership in the see leadershipo in the hemisphere. you see any number of examples. brazilosition to having have a permanent seat on the security council. the reaction to the position brazil took to the human rights system. in your time as ambassador, could you comment on how you perceive brazil's leadership

being perceived in other parts of the region? >> >> that is a great question. inzil tries to be careful terms of how it deals with its neighbors, largely because he recognizes that it's bigger ambitions are expressed through salek, but especially uniscor. withs to be managed respect and understanding for the concerns of other countries. it tries to present itself not as a hegemonic force but as a coalescing force in the region. this is not easy when you're as they cast brazil. resilience like to point out that even border on france --