peers in math and science. buckley fromjack the national center of education statistics and robert rothman from american education. host then -- the senate passed a budget deal. nominateden has been to be head of the fed. the senate will turn -- will adjourn by the end of the day. here are some of the recent news articles about capitol hill and congress. on obamaaches deal nominees. the senate reached a deal on several key obama administration

and judicial nominees ending and ongoing dispute over nominations that had tied up most of the chamber this month. the most high-profile nomination was janet yellen for the federal reserve. the hearing will be held in january and the senate will vote confirmation of the deputy secretary of the department of homeland security, the commissioner of the internal revenue service, and a u.s. allrict judge in florida this morning. earlier on thursday, senators had been preparing for a rare weekend session as democrats and republicans were at loggerheads on when to help -- hold votes. senate democrats were informed during their closed party meeting that they would be staying in washington through saturday. republicans had sketched out a plan ensuring one of their members with stay on the floor

to keep their eye on democrats. six other executive branch nominees were pending, mostly deputy ands for state. that batch of nominees will be sent back to the white house because they were not cleared by the senate. from the hill newspaper, sets debtecretary lew hike deadline. congress will need to set a deadly meant. in a letter sent to congress on warned that he does not see a reasonable scenario in which treasury will buy more than a few weeks of ise before the debt limit reached. this is from roll call this morning. now the hard part. three weeks to apportion $1 trillion. capital have the

opened intentionally secret negotiations on the measure necessary to make good on the budgetary truce just called by congress. the two dozen or so members involved have given themselves less than three weeks to agree on the sofa thousand line items in the bill that will be written as legislating dictating the government's discretionary spending for the final 37 weeks of this budget year. the enormity of the task and the type timetable would normally present significant time -- obstacles. at the lawmakers are betting that these challenges will be eased by several fact is, including the fact that the fiscal deal that cleared the senate on thursday is a package that both parties' negotiators say they can live with. the vast majority of lawmakers will be away from washington during the next 2 work weeks. haveeaders of the talks

agreed to draft a bill as a take it or leave it package. s writingavid hawking in roll call. charlie wrangle, 83 years old, to run again. the iconic lawmaker will run for reelection in 2014. he announced on thursday. he said, i may not be a perfect human being, but i am best equipped by my experience among my passion for serving the people of my district to help goalsesident achieve his in the next three years. firede wrangle is still up, that is why i am running. angel is still

fired up, that is why i am running. you have all been reading about this. you have probably watched this program. in every major paper this morning is a similar article to this one in usa today. duck dynasty controversy raises the harry question of free speech. to be aasty has proved pop-culture phenomenon. on thursday, the series moved to a new level in our cultural and political consciousness as it became the center of a raging debate. it became a symbol for the line between free speech and paid speech. late thursday, the robertsons released a statement casting doubt on the show's future without phil. as a family, we cannot imagine the show going forward without our patriot act -- patriarch at

the helm. we are in meetings to see what that means for the future of doug i missed it. the human rights campaign, the groupt lgbt civil rights in the u.s., and the naacp are demanding an apology. the american family association urged fans to write letters of a&e.ort to phil robertson made some comments about homosexuals and african-americans in an interview with gq magazine. here's the from page of the washington post this morning. hopefuls flocked to embattled duck dynasty star. few could have predicted that

the dynasty and the 2016 presidential contest would converge. conservative politicians rushed to defend phil robertson, the star of the breakout series, who was suspended after his published comments about gays stirred a storm of controversy. louisiana governor bobby gentle, a republican, whose state is home for the show over -- bobby republican, whose state is home for the show, called robertson and his family -- i remember when tv networks believed in the first amendment. signed in onruz facebook writing, if you believe in free speech or religious liberty, you should be deeply dismayed over the treatment of phil robertson.

sarah palin wrote in a facebook intolerant and taking on the duck dynasty patriarch are taking on all of us. we want to get your reaction to what happened to phil robertson and what happened to martin bashir, alec baldwin, paul la deen. we want to talk about free speech and political correctness. 585-3881 for republicans. four democrats -- for democrats and 202-585-3882

for independents. here is part of what phil robertson had to say in the gq article. here is just one paragraph that got him suspended. the 1960s.uct of i centered my life around sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll until i hit rock bottom. my mission today is to go forth and tell people why i follow christ and what the bible teaches. heart of that teaching is that women and men are meant to be together. i would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me. we are all created by the almighty. i love all of humanity. he would all be better off if we loved god and loved each other. he had also made some comments we will get to in some of these articles about african-americans and his comments about gays

included comparisons to beast reality. we want to hear your comments. free speech, political correctness and we will begin with chuck, a democrat, in charleston, west virginia. caller: we all have the right to freedom of expression and freedom of speech. -- whether youes are talking about newspapers or radio stations or tv networks -- are not obligated to provide you with a platform. back in thetime earlier days of broadcasting. we had something called the fairness doctrine, which stationsradio and tv to provide equal time for opposing points of view. it was presidents reagan and the reagan administration that succeeded in getting rid of the fairness doctrine. that gave rise to things like

conservative talk radio. now you have all of these right wing talk radio shows and they can say whatever they want and they can -- they do not need to time for dissenting opinions. there is your freedom of speech right there. as far as phil robertson is -- a&e, themd newspaper that airs duck dynasty, is not obligated to indulge phil robertson in his disdain for gay americans. that clan is not going to suffer. they are laughing all the way to the bank. you go into any store or any walmart, there is duck dynasty everything. host: if you have been running the network, would you have

suspended him for the comments he made? caller: absolutely. it was not just homophobic. it was some comments about black people. i saw a sermon he did a few years ago that was even more inflammatory than some of the stuff he said in gq magazine. he has every right to express his viewpoints. but tv networks are not obligated to give everybody like off a platform to spout their views. host: we will leave it there. thank you. article.he conservative christians feel like they are under siege in a culture that is increasingly intolerant and discriminatory toward their views and they do not feel represented, said ralph reed, founder of the faith and freedom volition come up who noted that robertson paraphrased from the bible's look of

corinthians. i did not get any impression that there was any animus said.sed, reed robertson, the reality show star, is serving as a flashpoint. his comments about gays, including a graphic description of which body parts are more desirable, have garnered substantially more intention in his contention that african- americans were happier in the area -- the era of jim crow laws in the south, calling them singing and happy. bill in illinois, you are on the air. decorated vietnam veteran. i am totally disgusted with the way the media and the public in certain groups are select tens in bashing people who express their -- selective in bashing people who express their views.

the network should have done a disclaimer saying they did not represent their views and points . recently, c-span had ed schultz on your show. and scholz, on his msnbc program, wished the vice president would die several times. he also called a female on hister a whore television program. msnbc did not do a rain. -- do a thing. selective groups and people who go after people for expressing their views is destroying the amendment for freedom of speech. -- martinin leasure bashir and alec baldwin are no longer with their networks. do you think those gentlemen should have been fired as well?

bill is on an entertainment program. l is on an entertainment program. you see the difference between news and a reality program. caller: definitely. reality is entertainment and news is to broaden the views of the nation. host: good morning, republican line. what do you think about all of this? caller: the stuff that you read made him sound like a boy scout. stuffy and the jim crow he was saying you will never be able to read on air. host: do you think they have the right to say that? caller: the network has the right to do whatever they want

to these people. are makingthey money, they will hold them up for people to emulate. we do not need reality shows with these rednecks and hillbillies. they do not make life better for the rest of us. host: what do you think about martin bashir's comments about sarah palin. caller: i did not hear it. caller: are you actually a republican? double -- host: are you actually a republican? caller: i am an educator republican. democrat in anaheim. caller i love that last pier she is funny. i am a real democrat. -- that last caller.

she is funny. a contract with those people. i am sure in their contract they said, you cannot say this or that. covers themendment government from stopping free speech. there are repercussions. people do not like hearing everything you have got to say. there will be an outcome. april will backlash against you. people should be careful what they say. you can think whatever you want. nobody can reach into your brain and stop what you are saying. host: are you familiar with martin bashir's comments about sarah palin? caller: i heard about it. host: are you familiar with alec baldwin's comments that he made about gays? caller: yes, i am.

host: should they have been let go? is it a free-speech issue or a political correctness issue? caller: these people signed a contract with msnbc. you have to be careful what you say. you are representing us even if you are off-camera. there will be repercussions for whatever you're going to do. and scholz was in big trouble with what he said. scholz -- ed s chultz was in big trouble with what he said. he took time off and he came back and he apologized. i do not know what the big deal is when they bring up ed s chultz. tricia is on our

independent line. go ahead. caller: we are christians and we believe the act of homosexuality is a sin. everyone, as mr. robertson stated. my bigger concern is his act.oint on the jim crow i did not read the article. a little racist. that is a greater concern to me than the homosexual aspect of it. host: should he have been pulled from the air? do not believe so. everyone has a right to their opinion. people on tvot of that i do not agree with who are still on.

a lot of people saying things that are just way out there. miley cyrus, she was all over the tv doing those dances and the music awards thing was disgusting what she did. host: should she be allowed to do that? yes, i guess so. it is her right as an american. her rights are protected. mr. robertson's rights are protected. a&e should have done what they did because he is voicing his own personal opinion. host: here is ted cruz's tweet from yesterday. if you believe in free speech or religious liberty, you should be deeply dismayed over treatment of phil robertson. some of the comments regarding his tweet. here are some of those.

--e is ted shackelford say an attack on christianity cloaked by speech arguments. kathy says, i have already &e, as my opinion to a many more have. here is another comment. i am deeply dismayed that mike senator has such a poor understanding of free speech and has such amy senator poor understanding of free speech and liberty. if you are on twitter and are interested, you can do #doug dynasty. there are thousands of comments.

-- #duck dynasty. here are a few comments. i do not care about duck dynasty. to deny rights is not equal rights. these are a couple of the comments we found. the duck dynasty star should be able to express his beliefs. there was no nastiness intended on his part. we engagedhappen if in conversation with those we passionately disagreed with? some of the many twitter comments coming on #duck dynasty. thanks for holding, gainesville, texas, republican line. caller: i am not a pig. i am not a gun toting redneck. my brain is not much.

i am a highly educated person. i despise miley cyrus and her she simulates.t is part of abc. it goes along with a vast left- wing thing. is not a natural anatomical act. therefore, i am through. thank you so much for c-span. host: should miley cyrus be allowed to be on tv? caller: no. if they are going to take robertson off, they should take her off. they should preview her things. it is very disgusting. you can turn your channel and not watch it. she is disgusting. basically froms the bible. i do not understand about the

jim crow because i did not watch that part. you can just turn the channel off if you do not like it. we are having a revolution beginning about christianity. christians are knocked down every time you turn around. this is biblical what he was talking about. straightforward and it was much -- what most people do not hear. most people just take it and go on and do not think about it. when you think about it like he proposed it, it really becomes sad because it is not an act. . was a registered r.n these thingsout anatomically and everything. people have to live their own lives, i suppose.

i do not support it and i will stand up for him. color -- host: this is keith in chicago on the democratic line. caller: can you say anything you want in your private life? a speech to an organization without any consequences on c-span? host: what do you think the answer to that question is? course you cannot. you are entitled to say it. if you want to keep your job, you are not free of consequences. majordia does us a disservice by making this debatable. this is not debatable. tos is the media's job, educate and inform. in no way have his first amendment rights been denied. i, as a private citizen, my employers are both lack and gay. i cannot tweet what i want it i

cannot put on facebook what i want. if they saw comments that embarrassed them as a company, they would fire me. why are we making the racial jim crow a secondary issue? that is not in the bible anywhere. is not religious. he has a multiracial grandson, i believe. enoughial comments were to have him suspended. i think he should be fired. the only reason they are not fired is because they bring in so much money. let's not mainstream bigotry. we know bigots exist. let's not give them platforms. host: this is keith and jonesboro, arkansas on our independent line. caller: this is an interesting conversation.

a choice.ity is i do not care what anybody says. they choose to engage in the act. it is unnatural, as one of your previous callers said. it is a totally unnatural act. host: we are talking more about free speech and political correctness. caller: that is what i was going to get to. this is about free speech. why is it that certain groups are allowed to shout down those groups they do not agree with. they shout them down and shut them off. they do not want to hear about it. that is a problem. in america, we have the right. cannot getpeople together to conspire to prevent someone to exercise their constitutional rights. all this man was doing was stating his particular beliefs. like it or not, he stated them.

that does not mean he should get fired were relieved of his duties. we just need to get on with our lives and quit this bickering about little things. thank you and have a great day. host: from usa today, new hampshire gop to scott brown, are you in? they might have hoped for a little gift from the former massachusetts senator, scott brown. to newas moved hampshire. he will register to vote in there. after a dozen political appearances in the state and a 10,000 donation to the state gop, will he also run for office? sayle are starting to politely, fish or cut bait. you can only keep the show on the road so long and you have got to bring it to broadway. after losing his senate seat in

2012, round passed on to races in massachusetts. but he has made frequent but -- ,requent trips to new hampshire where republicans are looking for a challenger for democratic jeanne shshaheen -- aheen. washingtonm the newspaper. two veteran groups want obama to veto the budget bill. they say the cuts to military retirement benefits are an insult to former troops. as commander in chief, president obama is the leader of the nation's armed services and he has a duty to protect the interests of all military members, both active and retired. the chair of

special operations for america. that is in the washington times. this is in the wall street journal this morning. new tweak to the affordable care act. the obama administration will allow some of the millions of americans whose health insurance policies have been canceled to purchase bare-bones plans in another 11th hour tweak to the law likely to cause consternation among insurers. a group sibelius told of six senators in a letter that people whose health policies had been canceled because of new requirements would be allowed to purchase catastrophic plans. those land had previously been did to people under the age of 30 or those who qualify for a set of specific hardship exemptions. some tweets we are getting on freeopic this morning on speech and political correctness. here is peg. hate speech cloaked in religious

doctrine does not meet standards for public discourse. attacks on minorities, ethnic ethnic etc. -- x-men -- groups, etc. fromtolerant caller janet colorado. heard our timber shear make those statements about slavery and palin -- margin but sure -- bashir make those statements about slavery and palin. says i am sick of people making hateful comments about blacks. lms says if only fill from doug dynasty was a corrupt and

tyrannical politician. we christians watch many tv shows that portray gays as living a normal lifestyle but it is no way normal, never will be. here is one final one. the fifth amendment only protects clinically correct speech. if otherwise, shut it down. thanks for holding. you are on "washington journal." what do you think about this conversation we are having this morning? caller: the morning. i am a former democrat. i am now a republican. i am hispanic. and i believe in freedom of speech for everyone. i am disgusted by the intolerance that we hear from the left. complained about

being treated like second-class citizens. equality --y have here in new mexico, they just legalized gay marriage yesterday, which i disagree with . that is where it is headed. the point is, freedom of speech has to be protected for every american. i do not care if you are white, ,lack, brown, catholic protestant, rich, or poor. intolerance. people say they want to be tolerated, but they do not want to tolerate others, especially christians. there is definitely a war on christianity. that is obvious. now at christmas time we see it again and again. the religious bigots come out and demand the nativity scene that crosses be taken down.

that is bigotry against christians and that is intolerance. all of those people on the left approach their intolerance and their bigotry and they should be ashamed of themselves. doubled -- host: hang on the line a minute. i want to get your response to this tweet. one of our regulars. put anything you want on tv as long as every tv has an off a channel change button. what do you think about that? him.r: i agree with if people don't like a certain tv show, change it. i do not watch dynasty, not because of what they are about. but it does not interest me, i guess. i might watch them now now that i know they are christians. i did not know that, to be honest with you. it is ironic. i believe in free speech for everyone.

to respect each other's freedom of speech whether we agree with it or not. host: frank is a democrat calling from lancaster, pa. today? how are you doing host: you have a comment about free speech today? spoke the truth. he answered the question. he did not say anything harsh and he came out and told what was on his mind. he was not trying to be hateful or anything like that toward homosexuals. two of the same cannot be married. they gave them the right to have other sorts of things that would allow them to enjoy all of the

privileges of a couple. black thing is concerned, i do not see how he would expect anyone -- the black folks out there in the field -- to talk against anyone out there in the field. he is the only white dude. they know when the deal goes .own, he will be out he is a nice person. i would have no problem sitting down and having dinner with him. host: frank in lancaster, pennsylvania. here is the new york times in their arts section. fans criticize move to suspend a&e reality star. a facebook page in support of mr. robertson, which calls for a 9000 -- has received

900,000 likes. ean in tennessee on the independent line. sir?r: how are you doing, this definitely is about someone being offended. we have become the united states of the offended. you cannot hardly say anything without someone being offended. it is ridiculous. host: hairy, pittsburgh -- harry, pittsburgh, republican. you are on "washington journal." caller: this is religious persecution. see it all around the country. the guy did not say it on tv. he said it in an interview. the so-called educated

republicans, they never heard what martin bashir said and they watch that channel. this is getting ridiculous. you cannot say what you want. goes, i will start watching them. if i hear the word monkey, cracker or-- honkey, whitey, that offends me. of these people, like the democrat that called in from scranton or somewhere, not all people are democrats or republicans when it comes to this. there are issues of freedom of religion in this country. it is starting to disappear. you cannot say anything about jesus in school. where it is point not like a country anymore and you do not have any kind of

right to express your freedom of religion. y in: that's harr pittsburgh. in aweets and, if you were survival situation, who would you rather be with, phil or pajama boy. i know who i would pick. here is a picture of pajama boy. wear pajamas, drink hot chocolate, talk about getting health insurance. chris christie tweeted a picture of himself yesterday. christie.ris he is volunteering. he tweets out, get out of your apron., put on an john is calling from south carolina, a democrat. what do you think about this

comment -- this topic we are talking about this morning? caller: any man or any woman with think being a married to a man or being married as to women being legal, there has got to be something wrong with their minds. go to the free speech and the political correctness part of this issue. every man should have a right to speech. the man who believes in the lord god should have a right to speak, too. -- e cannot speak his piece peace, the people we have who we a man and an, like woman, they can speak. when a christian gets up there and speaks, they have something

to say about them. this country was founded in god we trust. it is on the money. host: to your member when paula deen made her comments about african-americans? caller: i am not talking about race. draw the line you on free speech and political correctness, or don't you? should you allow sex scenes on tv? should you allow nearly -- should you allow miley cyrus to twerk on tv? should you allow phil robertson to do an interview and say what he said and continue to be on tv? caller: you have me in a situation where i cannot answer everything. we will let your comments

stand. we appreciate you calling in this morning. and -- isalling calling in. josé said.ike what i was raised in a christian home. i would support anybody's religion. are still offended by anything. a lot of people from the left say a lot of ridiculous and stupid things, too. dynastynly watched duck a couple of times. i really like them. i think they are decent people. they just spoke their mind. might be even more sinister things because the left is against guns and some of the things that are happening in some of the southern states and because they are so religious. it is even deeper than what they said.

i do not know exactly what they said about jim crow or about homosexuality. if a person is gay and they live their life, that is their business. it is not enough to be tolerant. you have to embrace it. i am against same-sex marriage. civil unions and civil rights or anybody in that lifestyle. i do not think men should be allowed to marry men and women should be allowed to marry women. i still support them right to live their lifestyle. bruce int is baltimore. a column in the washington times. the news media has much to crow about as far as duck dynasty is concerned. the suspension of phil robertson offered ample opportunities for puns, questions, speculations,

constitutional discussion and sheer bombast. among the headlines. is the duck dynasty goose cooked? saysuck dynasty fiasco more about our bigotry than phil's. doug dynasty ignites culture wars. fowls up duck flap. some of the headlines that came out of this issue we are talking about. employees' health costs are headed north. prepare to pay more. the new year will likely ring higher deductibles and copayments. penalties for not joining wellness programs and smaller employer contributions for family coverage. some blame the federal health

law for these changes. the law is mainly accelerating trend that predate it. here is a headline from the financial times this morning that you might find interesting. delicate issue of spying on his friends. after a critique of electronic surveillance activities, barack obama cede some support from an unlikely source today. inv obama because he can spy on his allies without costs -- envy obama because he can spy on his allies without russian president putin said. the u.s. president is well aware

that there are consequences from spying on allies. ohio.blican calling from we are talking about free speech and lyrical correctness. ofler: one thing a lot people do not understand is with freedom comes responsibility. whether we are talking lyrically or religiously. so many people are talking about everybody -- whether we are talking politically or religiously. if you go back to scripture, it tells us a brother offended is hard to win. if you go around offending people, how are you going to preach the gospel. a lot of people speech -- speak on the gay issue, but are blinded to the race issue. the race issue is very important considering our country rarely speaks on race. he just goes off and spews hate speech, but no one is targeting that and saying, that is wrong.

everything he said is wrong. he talks about lax singing and dancing in the jim crow -- about incks singing and dancing the jim crow times. of course he is going to see that. it is sad we are overlooking the racial stance. in the book of matthew, it tells us in every idle word, you will give an account for. watch your words. host: that was the last word from our callers. you can continue the conversation on our facebook page. how to be a right-wing cause célèbre. .ut down some minority group it is easy. is bigotry on both sides.

it is all a sick joke. what about farrakhan. doesn't he say a lot of hate filled things people don't like. c-span has gone downhill big- time. so worried about covering that theye issues have lost credibility with the public. of the tweets. continue the conversation. we have got three segments coming up this morning. tomer congressman and omb her, james nussle -- and omb ,irector, will james nussle will be out here. we will talk about the progressive agenda.

that is all coming up on "washington journal post quote today. -- coming up on "washington today." >> as a moderate in the privacy debate and in the privacy world, i have come to a troubling conclusion. the data broker industry as it is today does not have constraints and does not have shame. it will sell any information about any person regardless of nametivity for 7.9 cents a

, which is the price of a list of rape sufferers, which was recently sold. the m's rape sufferers, of domestic violence, --victims of domestic violence, police officers' home addresses, people who suffer from illnesses complete with names, ethnicity, gender, and many other factors. this is what is being sold and circulated today. it is a far cry from visiting a website and seeing and add. -- an ad. personallyale of identifiable information and highly sensitive information of americans. this weekend on c-span, your medical history, income, lifestyle. the senate commerce committee

looks into data mining. thom hartmann argues that without a strong middle class, there will be an economic implosion that will make the tame.depression seem on c-span 3 american history tv, it was already becoming clear in 1945 that a struggle for global dominance had begun. sunday at 7:30 p.m. eastern. >> "washington journal" continues. now is formerus congressman, former omb director james nussle to talk about the issues facing congress and the administration. what do you do today? serve on some boards and i am a independent consultant. i get to pick and choose issues

i think are important and that i like. that is why i focus on fiscal issues. i have always been drawn to that. you and i probably both grew up in the time where it was understood that in washington you always try to follow the money. i came out here to follow the money and i am still trying to follow the money. host: you served as budget committee chair. the you miss being up there? guest: i do, but i do not miss it to the point where i would go back. i served 16 years in the house and a couple as budget director in the white house. i loved it. what a fascinating experience. a great opportunity to serve. it is kindthat and of a cliché. you miss the people. i do miss the people and i miss it more, particularly today, the

ability to solve problems, to come together. that seems to be missing. even when you talk to some of my former colleagues, they are very first rated five away way the tone has changed here on capitol hill. host: when was the last time you talked to john boehner? guest: 10 days ago i was in his office. i am on the national board of the down syndrome society. we were talking about the able at, which allows people with down syndrome -- the able act. over 300 cosponsors, bipartisan, in the house. has signed onto this bill, that slightly changes the law to allow people to earn a little bit more than the $2000 cap that has been there more than a day. we might get something passed

that is a bipartisan solution that everybody seems to agree with. it is a tax bill. we have to find the vehicle to get it to. that was the last time i talked to john. host: how do you think he is doing? guest: it is great to see him in that role. those who know him well and came in with him and grew up with him in public service knew he would be good at his job. but i do not envy it. there are times when he would say the same thing. those different cats and various opinions and get them to go in one particular direction seems to be harder today than ever before. and out and today in the new york times. john boehner's the trail.

the goals of groups like ours are goals that congressional republicans want to espouse. less spending, lower taxes. those who demand such things today from elected officials face unfounded attacks. the budget deal congress came up with is the betrayal of the theervatives who fueled republicans' midterm shellacking of democrats. i would term it differently. it is interesting that she would characterize the tea party that way. when i came in, i was considered a conservative. we were all conservatives. we were small government conservatives. we were not anti-government conservatives. we knew there was a role for government. thehought they could spend

money more wisely and if you reduced taxes there could be economic growth and there needed to be a safety net for people who could not help themselves. we believe in those things, but there were better ways to accomplish them. there is a new faction against government. government of all kinds is bad and there is a hatred toward it. -- that isferent difficult to manage. if you do not believe in government at all, nothing else on capitol hill is right. it is not small government as much as it is antigovernment, at least for constituents. were in congress today, would you be a member of the tea party caucus? guest: probably not. i would think that on this last budget agreement, i am someone

who could very easily be critical of that. is it a good deal? is it the best way to manage our federal government? is it the best way to? budget for the federal government .f course not no one should celebrate this agreement as a major breakthrough that is going to bend the curve of our debts or spur economic growth. news that finally someone like paul ryan and patty murray could get together in a room and work something out even though it is 20% of the budget in its entirety and it is only for a short term? is it good news? of course it is good news. neither side got everything they wanted. what we got is constituents and citizens talking.

that is a good step forward. you think about the extra congressional process this budget had to go through? extra i do not like the congressional process this budget had to go through. normal assumes there is some normality to it at some point. it has not gone through the normal process since i was there . it is good news that is going through any process. before capitol hill or members of congress can consider reforming the budget process, they should consider using the one that is there. 40% in the house and almost the same in the senate have never gone through the regular budget process. they have not even seen it. they have not seen what we call regular order on capitol hill.

he already to go and reform the process. it is like saying that hammer is broken. before youou try it say, i need a new toolbox? served ins nussle congress 16 years, from 2001 until 2007 and then moved on to the white house. .e is from iowa undergrad at luther college. .ll degree in des moines he is our guest for the next 40 minutes or so. the numbers are up on the screen. david, you are the first caller. you are calling from mississippi . please go ahead with your comments for former congressman james nussle. i want to know why we can send so much money overseas and we cannot attach people

right here in america who are suffering? always a problem when it comes to helping the poor, but we can send money overseas to people we do not know and for things we have no idea thanks wa about. that is a great question. it is always a balancing act trying to determine the priorities in the budget. how much goes to programs that help people who cannot help themselves or people who are poor or between jobs and balancing the priorities of our foreign policy. trying to ensure that we are safe and that our interests around the world are protected. and that we have influence in areas that are important. the one misnomer i would say is that -- i would suggest that much not spend when compared to the overall budget on foreign-policy types

of programs. you would see much more in the programs that do help or try and help the poor and people between jobs. people who are unemployed or cannot help themselves. as we were talking moments ago, people with disabilities. i am not suggesting they are perfect. in fact, i think congress is looking and the president has brought this up -- trying to look at programs that help people who are disadvantaged and who have income disparities -- income discrepancies and inequalities as well as from the republicans on capitol hill wanting to look at welfare programs. seeing if there is not a better way to make sure those dollars are directed to people who need them. that is not even close to the onunt of money that is spent foreign programs. you could argue there are too much, but they are still nothing compared to what we spend for those in the safety net.

oakland,ys from california, independent line. caller: good morning. i am a longtime watcher, first time caller. i have been watching this program for at least 24 years. ever since i was 25 in the first gulf war. i have been paying attention. do weo find out -- why spend all this money on the military? we should spend about 100 times more than anybody. we have got money to waste like that that we don't have any money for here. come on, the real. host: thank you. we spent auestion lot of money on military and national defense. what i try to focus on is how much is wasted. there has not ever been a clean audit of our defense program, of the department of defense or the pentagon.

it is not just -- if i may be so bold -- it is not just the total amount, but it is, once that is decided by congress and the president based on their priorities, once it is decided, is that money wasted? i remember a hearing when i was budget chairman, we got a report where the navy was missing i believe three ships. they did an inventory and counter the ships. they could not find three of them. that is a problem. in major proportion, if you cannot find three ships you have built. things, in kinds of addition to the total amount, that frustrate people. that money is wasted and could go to more important programs in the defense budget or it could be saved and go to the debt or just not taxed at all. host: jim nussle, some twitter followers reacting to your

comments about the budget. va_texan. jim is in bed with the big taxers. way to go, jim. a pragmatist, not some limbaugh ideologue. guest: wow. is asking me to comment on miley cyrus or "duck dynasty." host: i may ask -- guest: please don't. ido not know how to twerk, have only seen "duck dynasty" wants -- once. whole trying to see the budget act without all the tools in the toolbox. i am not for increasing taxes. i also know that if you take the tax code off the table and you say we are not going to talk about it, you are suggesting that you like the tax code the

way it is. it is the most ridiculous, underperforming code you could imagine for raising revenue for the federal government. no matter where you come down on how the money should be spent or how it is spent or whatever. it is those kinds of things. if you open your toolbox, open the entire toolbox and look at all the tools, do not try to do it with one arm tied behind your back. host: lydia, texas, republican line. caller: good morning. i have a question. i want to know where you stand on the reduction of the pensions for our veterans, including injured in action. another thing is -- i have been reading about the agreement that the obama administration as -- is interacting with afghanistan. taliban is up in arms

about this and they are going to boycott the elections come april. why are we still sending our kids down there? the agreement is going to keep us there for another 10 years. i would like to know where you stand on that. guest: a great question. i am not sure i can answer the second part of your question. i think that is something the white house is going to have to address. it is going to address it one way or the other. just because the resources are there, this budget only applies for the next two years. i would not get too excited about believing that this is what is going to be happening in the 10th year. my guess is that all of these priorities will change, even after the next election. as congress goes through a reprioritizing. goes. as your first issue we have -- congress has overpromised and will

underdeliver, period. more one promised social security and health care, war on pensions than they can afford. if you look at -- lindsey graham from south carolina did a pretty good special order on this in the senate. he described how the pensions are different when they were first instituted for the military back in me 1980's versus how they impact the military today. just before the all volunteer it was amilitary, different system than it is today. there have been some unintended consequences. nobody wants to undervalue our, veterans and -people that- -- our combat veterans and people that have lost limbs and time

with families. we have to make sure we can afford promises we have made. right now, congress is determined that those promises are something they cannot afford. host: emails in. finally a republican that speaks the truth about the tea party. republicans being antigovernment. very refreshing. would you be able to speak that way if you were still in government? i could do not sure it and get elected in my district for the nomination. that is a good point. i do council candidates from time to time who come and see me and ask how would you handle it? i think there is a difficulty right now, because of the way districts are drawn. this is true for the liberals and the democrats as well as conservatives. they have to appeal to their extremes just to get a nomination in these districts

that have now more appreciated their extremes the way they have inn drawn and gerrymandered some instances. it becomes difficult to come out ere and -- a dirty word -- compromise. not getting the full loaf is disdained. you cannot get half a loaf or 3/4 a loar. f. i find -- i will give you an example. commitmentnd gave my to the constitution. remember, the constitution itself, that precious document was a product of compromise. the declaration of independence was a product of compromise. they did not come down from the mountaintop in a tablet.

a came down through compromise, sweat, even wars to get us to the point where we are today. we have to relearn that word. listening, understanding what the other side and the other person wants. if we are going to get back to self-government in an effective way. 'ost: we like to put our guests twitter handles on this green so people -- on the screen. your page is protected. why? do not know. probably because i do not know what i am doing. i will havetect it, to ask my wife how. host: tweeting in. every policy -- every politician who comes on admits waste, yet nothing changes. to sayit is not fair

nothing changes. it is so overwhelming. if a process is broken -- the waset process, when it adopted in 1974, was meant to be an annual process. so that the appropriators could go through with a fine tooth comb. could, through reconciliation, look at all the entitlements or automatic spending programs and pull out notweeds so they do overwhelm the garden. right now, they are overwhelming the garden. congress has not utilized reconciliation to reform it on a case-by-case, annual basis. the waste is out of control. the reforms are desperately needed. desperate -- the process congress is going through. he is right, we all talk about it. process is not utilized

appropriately and the leadership is not there to utilize the process. host: walter from spartanburg, south carolina. democrat. you.r: thank good morning, c-span, good morning, jim. a couple comments. i was reading "rolling stone," some of the best investigative journalism on the planet. they said the top five banks and oil companies own about $536 trillion that pay our debts over 1,000 times. when you are in office, we had the largest downfall of the economy on our planet. in 2001, donald rumsfeld said the pentagon had last -- had lost $2.3 trillion. nobody wants to say anything about that. we have the tea party people and their cause. sign a woman carrying a

that said keep your government's hands off my medicare. where do you stand on the tea party people? how can we fix the budget? host: we have talked about that a little bit, we will get mr. nussle to comment,. guest: they are part of the process. it is great people want to be part of the political process and part of the policy process. they have an opinion. even if they were not part of any organization, they would still hold that opinion. whether it is to is reflecting the tea party -- whether it is to respecting -- whether it is disrespecting the tea party or the democratic party, it is silly. happen is a better understanding and a clear understanding of how all of those interests can be utilized

in order to come up with a solution. not having a solution. not having an agreement or a decision. no decision is a rotten decision. as we have seen in washington. for those who are worried about to a, if you do not come decision, you cannot root out waste. whether in the pentagon or whatever program you believe is wasteful, you cannot get at it if you are not going through a budget process and an appropriations process and a process to reform the entitlements. i understand how the extremes on both sides have an opinion. but they have to be brought into the decision-making. they have to be part of moving forward if we are going to get the whole system working again. right now, it is not working. host: tweet. this, establishment

republicans, are white tea party started an -- are why tea party started. guest: i am one of those a status and guys. -- i am one of those east that was meant -- i am one of those establishment guys. host: in 1991, would you be a tea party? guest: we reformed welfare and reduced capital gains. john boehner and i were the ones who were the contract even thou gh newt gingrich and the army t- even though new gingrich gets all the credit. we were part of that reform. the difference is the difference between understanding the government has a role, let's make it work as best it can.

as opposed to there is no role for government, tear it down. that is the difference i see that i find frustrating between the two sides. there is not much of a difference, neither side is communicating very well with each other. party issue.ntra- republicans calling other republicans names. i have never been accused of being an establishment guy. host: grover norquist, good for the republican party or not? guest: everyone is good for the party and has an agitation towards whatever you are trying to accomplish. when they are not good is when they take the ball and go home. and use it to raise money. that is what john boehner was

saying. when all you are doing is trying to be different in order to send out any not last -- to send an email blast to your constituency saying there they go, send me $25. i have seen those letters. i smile when i do. process not part of any to fix anything, they are raising a lot of money to pad offices in washington. that is what john boehner was saying. be part of the process to fix things, not to raise money. host: jeff, el paso, independent line. caller: good morning. mr. nussle, i am curious. are you still living in iowa or do you live in washington? guest: i live in washington. host: why do you ask? an independent former

republican, not a member of the tea party, i found your comment that characterized tea party republicans as antigovernment as opposed to being the small government republican your report -- you purport to be. you remain in washington i do not live in iowa. -- and do not live in iowa. you are once -- you were once the dragon slayer and have become a dragon tender. this is why people have identification with the tea party. have sent small government republicans who washington over and over again, only to see them grow and feed the monster taking away our freedom. you were offended at being called an establishment

republican. when did it become offensive to be part of the establishment? when people like you sold us down the river. guest: i feel bad that that is your opinion. i respect it. there is no question that along the way we have all lost our way. we have lost our -- maybe some of the things you would suggest are the reasons why we got here in the first place. that happens to many parties along the way. think i wasg if you disrespecting the tea party. i am not disrespecting them at all. i think it is good for the process regardless of people's opinion, for them to be involved. i have no problem with that. i am concerned about is when angry,are so mad, so

that they see absolutely no possibility of reform, possibility of change, possibility of solution. leasts what i see -- at from the leadership. it is not true with you, probably. it is true with so many that i hear from. they are just against everything. at least to me, that is not a position. if that makes me east talisman, i am proud -- if that makes me establishment, i am proud. be concerned if your position is just against everything and angry. that is not going to account was anything. -- to accomplish anything. host: this morning's "wall street journal," republicans are like auburn's football team -- lucky.

last week, they reached a ajit compromise with democrats without causing excessive harper compromise with democrats without causing excessive heartburn. guest: it takes skill. auburn did not just put a budget of in a rural folks -- of intramural folks on the field. if republicans can understand why they are a great team and why they are here. if it is just up to paul ryan ,nd john boehner and dave camp a few others that are working hard to reform and work toward solutions. if it is just up to them, that is not enough to get to a point where the republicans are going to continue to be winners.

if you are only going to be lucky, that is not good enough to carry the day. whether it is next november or beyond. no question that if you look at three months ago, people were talking about the end of the republican party. a day is an eternity in washington. twists andbe more turns before next november and the midterm elections. host: when it comes to the national parties, the dnc, rnc, how much do they matter to you as a member -- a former member of congress? do they matter? guest: they are weaker and weaker every day. that is part of the challenge. a lot of things are contributing the breakdown of the process, if you will. part of it is the fact that the parties are completely irrelevant to a person running for government these days.

for congress or for the senate. weak onership is very both sides. the leaders do not have the kind of sway they used to to keep things together. the districts are very extreme because of gerrymandering and the redistricting, which has become very political. those kinds of things. money and media. you can listen to only what you want to hear on tv these days, whether it is msnbc or fox. to,hat is all you listen you might agree and think that that is the only perspective. that is not the way ecb, think of is for c-span. money, you doh not have to appeal within your own hometown to get reelected. you can go to a couple big donors or big centers within the country and receive resources for your little district back in iowa.

those kinds of influences take away from the ability to be responsive to the constituents, like the folks who have been calling in frustrated. florida -- california, republican. you are on with jim nussle. caller: good morning. mr. nussle is a shield for the one percent or's. inn he came to congress 1993, he promised to cut pointment, it grew to one $6 trillion. all their good intentions turned having an organization like the clinton global initiative for you can make a speech and get $500,000. they have a movie called "american hustle" about congressman getting their bread buttered on both sides.

we have a guy that can save the deficit is going from $17 trillion to $18 trillion to $20 10% of our gross national product. as long as he gets his pay, everything is fine. qe2 money going to wall street, put a penny for every that could, generate income to pay for stuff so people can have guaranteed insurance -- host: i think we got the point. are you ever going to come back, you are getting beat up. guest: he has got a point. there is no question -- maybe in timeser way, there were when republicans lost their way and when congress loses its way. you have got to hold their feet to the fire. i am proud i was part of the team that did balance the budget

for the first time in almost as two generations. -- almost generations. right after that, we lost our way. we had other challenges -- 9/11 and two wars. regardless of that, i think there are some positives. if you get involved in the process and are not just angry, wings can come from that. i am positive about that. host: a couple comments on the budget via twitter. spending 60 billion dollars the next two years on a promise of deficit reduction in a decade. tell us how you would pay for the last two war s. .uest: great question i do not know if that is the reason why president bush selected me or not. i was one of the ones -- i would

like to take credit to say i was hell with that raised the administration about paying for the wars in the budget. we finally got that done. we finally got it as part of the budget. they wanted to do it off budget. as a republican budget chairman, even against a good friend like george w. bush, i thought that. -- i fought that. we were able to get that done. anyone byustrated as the direction of the budget. what he said about the $60 billion of increases upfront to be paid. that is what frustrates me, too. i hope we can hold to that. laughable.d that host: tweets in. is that why you do not ask tough questions?

afraid they will not show up again? sasha, that is your job. michigan, democrats. caller: good morning. hopefully i can get a few comments. hope you are enjoying the season. constitution -- you mentioned about the tablets off the hill. if everybody would read those 10 tablets, the world would be a lot better. i think our founders did bring all that opinion of the constitution with that in mind. second, you were within the bush administration. at, can'twhere we are we get out of afghanistan? 2,000 citizens killed. that is part of the tablets.

let's honor our neighbors. fors reduce the pay government officials to say the budget and pass an amendment or whatever law so the government closes down, the next congress will not get paid. what do you think of somebody representing that? enjoy the season and new year. guest: i would not wait for the next congress for them not to get paid. i would apply that to the people who shut down the government in the first place, across the board. my only point about the constitution was that -- different from the tablets you are talking about that when --tt nice from the bible different from the tablets you are talking about that we recognize from the bible. it was derived from a process of compromise.

ourrstanding the needs of nation. it has evolved over that time. it has adapted to many changes within our country. that was my only point, many believe we should just follow the constitution and not compromise. the constitution itself was a compromise, that was my only point. i understand what you are saying. the founding fathers did adhere to that as much as they could have only possibly do. housethis congress, both and senate, has been called the do-nothing congress, least productive congress. what is your take? guest: it is hard to argue with that on both sides. particularly if you came into this -- i come in as an optimist. if i was an optimist -- if i was

not an optimist, i would not be here. i believe our tax code needs to be reformed. if you are for that, so far, this seems to be unproductive. if you are there because you believe the growing that -- growing debt, we have got to bend the growth curve. you are going to be disappointed so far. you could go on and on about the disappointments or how nothing was done. e, i am going to take the optimistic view even though i guarantee you none of the callers i have heard would take this, this is a good first step. pattybuild on the step murray and paul ryan were able to agree on. and keep then that conversation going. do not take this rate -- this

break for christmas and new year's and come back and take your positions again. we have a big debt ceiling coming up to deal with. i hope this is a good first step for the congress to deal with this next debt ceiling in a responsive and responsible way. a way that does not get us to another brink like we have a couple times in recent past. host: if you are an congress and could privately counsel john boehner. what would be your counsel with lus votes one 30 p health care the republicans have taken? guest: you could have gotten the symbolism with 10 or 15. how many do you need to prove whatever you are trying to prove . you really do not like obamacare . 15, 20, 50, whatever. we have got the point. to point also is, according

anyone who has watched "schoolhouse rock," the president has to sign a bill. if he says he is not going to sign it, you do not have enough to override that decision on his part, saturday morning cartoons will tell you you are not going to get your bill put into law. we have got to start educating the public as to how self-government works. not just be against it for the sake of being against it. what can you actually do about it. i do not think that is symbolism by passing another anti-obamacare bill. host: steve from new york on our independent line. caller: hello, gentlemen. mr. nussle, do you think the ryan-murray bill will bode well for the crisis in disability and social security. it will prevent a stalemate and massive cuts, 21%.

i need that money. guest: u.n. there are many -- you and many people rely on those programs. there are many who are in a situation where the government has been there as a safety net. there are vulnerable people who are hanging in the balance. for two reasons. it is not just what congress does or does not do with regard to the disability programs. it is the programs themselves. they are invented in a very different time, they are not dealing with some of the changes of circumstances that people find themselves in. they are not adapting, whether it is new technology or new pact us is, best practices -- some of which are coming from state and local governments that are doing a much better job of dealing with some of the vulnerable people in society. let alone the private sector,

churches and others that are doing good work. that is what needs to change. when the process is broken, that cannot happen. of saying ing way am concerned about those programs were both of those reasons. not just because they ran out of money, but because when the process is broken, congress does not step in to change them and reform them and make them more people such as yourself. host: lisa, philadelphia, the last caller for jim nussle. caller: one thing -- he said people are angry. i don't know if you are aware of the wastebook, $30 billion worth of waste. in my opinion, i believe that is where congress should have started. the cousin of the incompetence -- because of the incompetence and inability of congress, they have made the budget off the backs of our military who have made a career to serve and protect the u.s.

i will point out the fact that congress and our representatives are not supposed to the career politicians. if they want to make a difference, they would have lead by example and cut the benefits there first before they cut those who serve our country. guest: wow. great point. ado not think there was question there. lisa makes an excellent point. tom coburn put that book out. many put out different examples of waste. there is one that the budget itself puts out. the idea that i helped write. differentmany examples of books or pages or wastees of reforms or that could be used, could be candidates for offsetting some of the spending that you point out. all of them should be considered

candidates. i point out one thing. --- this is controversial one person's waste is another person's special interest. important programs. that is why congress has to tompromise to rupees out -- yro root these out. tom coburn put out a great book. but each of these items has a constituency, some of which is that wouldng, violently disagree with and march on washington in order to maintain. quite as simple as here is the list, everybody agrees, let's pass it. there is usually more to it. host: this tweet. dems will not consider changes to social security. do you consider them extreme?

guest: anyone who says nothing can be changed, yes. that is just as extreme. i am typically asked about the tea party because i am a republican. no one cares about my opinion on democrats because they assume my answer. it is not true. i have worked with many good democrats across the aisle, some of my favorite people -- i am not going to mention names -- i will mention one. i enjoyed working with turley wrangel. charlie .e is a war hero he and i disagree on just about everything. i know he got in trouble, i am not speaking about that. he is a good guy and i enjoyed working with them. we could find common ground. even though we came from different districts and perspectives, he was someone i could talk to. that is what is missing right now.

there is an inability or an unwillingness to sit down at the table -- let me end with this. i loved the last budget agreement, it was decided 45 minutes after the pizza arrived. they rolled in the pizza and everyone came out and had an agreement. we should have more pizza. maybe beer, wine. if they broke bread together and had a chance to have a glass of beer together. that sounds silly and is kind of a stupid remark. people are probably saying it is. get to know these people, they are not evil. they care about america. if they found that out, there is a good chance they could find common ground easier and more often. just charlie rangel announced he is running for a 23rd term. guest: amazing.

i could not do it. i admire his stamina. former chairsle, of the house budget committee, former director of omb. thank you for being on "washington journal." guest: always a pleasure. introduce you to carmel martin, executive vice president of the center for american progress. then we will do america by the numbers, how american students stack up internationally. "washington journal" continues. ♪ >> if you are a middle or high

school student, c-span's video competition was to know what the most important issue congress should address is. make a video and include c-span programming for your chance to win $5,000. with $100,000 in total prizes. the deadline is january 20. i was a donor to martha's table, like so many of your viewers. annual do the consideration of the things that we care about because they were important to us. issues we care about because they match our broader beliefs. also, the players in our community doing good work. martha's table delivered hot meals to the little park outside the bill and melinda gates foundation's d.c. offices. mcpherson square. people see the lines of

there every night. i knew it was a driven, 10,000 volunteers. 80 staff. they had enormous influence in the community that they were serving. wouldn't i join that organization and see if i could put my skills to work. also see if i could understand better why do we have this issue. persistent child poverty. so many children that are not graduating high school and going on to college and being able to attach to careers the way i was able to. >> the president and ceo of martha's table on leading the nonprofit. sunday night at 8:00 on q&a. >> "washington journal" continues. we want to introduce you to carmel martin, executive vice president for policy at the center for american policy. first time on "washington journal."

give us a taste of your background. the executive vice president at center for american progress. i help manage our policy work. we are a progressive thing ta -- think tank. we try to generate ideas for policymakers. in april of this year coming off a step as an assistant secretary at the department of education. the entire first term. prior to that i worked on capitol hill, in the senate for chairman kennedy when he was chairman of the health education labor and pensions committee. nt atars ago i had a sti the center for american progress. host: where did you grow up? guest: new york and new jersey. host: how did you end up getting

a masters degree at ut? and a jd? guest: i always knew i wanted to be a lawyer. , texased to law schools is a terrific school. i went there initially for law school and decided to get a masters degree. host: c-span covers a lot of events at the center for american progress. what kind of events? on keywe hold events policy issues facing the country. we do a lot of work and economic space, trying to help think of the best ideas for growing our economy. we have a team working on energy and climate issues. national security issues. health care, immigration, education. we cover the gamut of policy issues. ap's website says you are a nonpartisan organization with a progressive agenda. how can you be nonpartisan and have a progressive agenda?

guest: we support progressive ideas that are designed to help treat and economy that helps everyone, not just those at the top. promotes things like energy climatehat will stem change. national security to keep our nation safe. we believe in a progressive agenda and are open to anyone from any political affiliation embracing that. convince mission to people from all sides of the political spectrum that our ideas should be pursued. host: what is a progressive economic idea that you support? term, we the short need to raise minimum wage, extend unemployment insurance for people who have -- this will be unprecedented if we do not extend unemployment insurance 7%.n on employment is at

it will be good for the economy to do so. if their insurance is cut off, we will lose jobs. we need to invest in growth. washington dc has been overly focused on budgets and deficit. that made sense for years ago when we were facing unprecedented deficit levels. we put out a paper a couple months ago laying out the case that we have reduced the deficit , the debt trajectory has changed. we need to focus on investing in growth. cost 30 policies have not worked around the world -- austerity policies have not worked around the world. our focus is trying to inspire policy makers to invest in growth and create jobs. that the budget agreement patty murray and paul ryan came up with, what do you think of it? guest: it is good they were able to get past the crisis mode.

it is a positive thing and that our constant running to the creating the level of uncertainty in our economy, this has been a bad thing for the country and economy. it is good that they have come to a resolution. the deal is not as good as we would like. we think that if folks on the conservative side were willing to consider putting things like closing corporate tax loopholes on the table, we would be able to get a deal that would alleviate more of the cuts sequestration brought. we think it is good to have stability in terms of our budgeting. we are applauding both senator murray and congressman ryan's leadership and being able to get us to that point. we want to turn to the things that we need to focus on. things like immigration reform.

things that will really help to grow our economy. host: "the washington times" has an op-ed. peter with the national tax limitation foundation. the end of the progressive era. place them in up theter and turn heat. the frogs are unable to jump out and save themselves. that is what president obama and democrats have had in mind with obamacare, which they planned to leave -- which they planned would end up with socialized medicine. americans are reacting with reproach. it is progressivism and the democratic party that is getting burned.

issue withuld take just about everything you just read. i think the american people want to have access to good, affordable health care coverage. i think that is what the affordable care act is offering. there have been glitches in terms of implementation. that is a problem that needs to be addressed. the administration is working very hard to do that and to provide flexibility in the transition. these kinds of implementation problems are not unprecedented. they happened when medicare was established. -- whoople who dedicate benefit from medicare are very pleased with the program. when george bush expanded medicare for prescription drugs, there were glitches in the implementation. people need to focus on -- -- the of the aca

october november numbers shows that 680,000 have signed up through exchanges. 1.2 million people are benefiting from health care they did not have previously through expansion of medicaid. in california, we are seeing 15,000 people signing up every day. people want coverage. once this is implemented, you will see people with better health care coverage at lower costs. that is the right thing to do. host: tweeting in. we are $17.2 trillion in debt. you are going to have a hard time to convince me our problem is lack of investment. guest: there is a long-term issue about that. we need to look at long-term deficit reduction. i think there are ways to do that. in the short term, we need to grow the economy. theave brought down deficit.

if you look at the targets, bipartisan targets of the simpson-bowles commission. we have met those targets. it does not mean that there is not more to be done. thing -- ifortant we grow our economy, that will reduce debt. we will bring in greater tax revenues and that will reduce debt. it is not that that is no longer an issue that is off the table. we need a short-term plan and a long-term plan. in the short term we need job creation. talking with carmel martin, executive vice president for policy at the center for american progress. 585-3881 for republicans. four democrats. caller: good morning. comee state of the union,

to -- good ways maybe nancy and harry could sing to him. have you got any better ideas? i am sure the leaders will take your advice to mind. we are going to be focused on ideas that the president can support in the state of the union. host: tweet in. i do not think she agrees with you. how do you feel about the redistribution of wealth? the fraud on global warming. two different questions. we have the greatest level of income inequality in this country that we have had since we have been collecting

data on the issue. and this economic recovery, the people at the top are recovering. ceos salaries are that two. session -- ceos salaries are back to prerecession levels. incomes are stagnant for average americans. it is hard to argue that a good way for us to proceed as a nation. the u.s. has been known for its commitment to mobility. destiny is not determined by where they start in life and that they have the ability to do better than their parents. we are seeing a trend moving away from that. we think it is time to re-examine things like the tax and notit is more fair focused on benefits for those at the top. but also looking at the broad majority of people.

we need to grow our economy from the middle out and so the top down. host: john, tampa, independent line. caller: good morning. i am being very serious. why don't we raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour? the reason you do not want to do that is because it would be disruptive to the economy. just like the affordable health care act, instead of helping people, you are destroying lives. progressive policies are bad for america. the establishment in washington does not seem to understand not. -- understand that. that is why we voted for tea party candidates to stop the agenda. we could not stop the health care act and look what it has done to america. thank you. guest: i respect your point of view but i disagree with you. the majority of americans believe we should raise minimum wage. it is not fair that a ceo salary

is going up exponentially. the average american salary is in real terms the same as it was 30 years ago. in terms of health care i have totion -- respectfully disagree. i think the millions of people who did not have health insurance prior to the affordable care act will now have to -- have it. they would also disagree. healthople who have insurance, there are a lot of parents that are happy their children can stay on their health care plans. there are 3.1 million individuals who will benefit from that. 129 million individuals will benefit from the changes around pre-existing conditions. big problemsally for average americans. they wanted a solution.

i am open to hearing that the affordable care act is not perfect. we need to address the problems with it but not scrap it. this is something that people do want. they want support for health care. is a carmel martin, this column in "the wall street journal," it is called the prozac presidency. he is talking about a speech the president gave on income distribution. guest: we hosted that speech. host: the president's thoughts thdeserve comment. it said a lot about mr. obama's idea of america. the speech, by my reading, was a wallow and presidential pessimism. he believes the debt has been stacked against individuals. those are his words. work,tter how hard they

the deck is stacked against them." thinks america must be reeducated to belief they inhabit a country that is unfair. guest: i take issue with the characterization of the speech. i think the reality is that for many americans, need to feel like the deck is stacked against them. we see that in surveys of what people think. i think it is the job of the nation's leaders to ensure that one of the things that makes america great is the sense of mobility. i am the daughter of immigrant and i benefit from that sense of coming in working hard and being able to provide to your children something better than you had. we need to make sure -- college is getting more and more unaffordable. they have make sure

the ability to go to college. the ability to get a good job and support their families. if you look at the stagnation of toes and people's inability make ends meet, it is something that is appropriate for the president and other leaders to be able to tackle. host: one more paragraph from the column. speech reflects yingobama's habit of bur everyone in listening distance be need guilt -- beneath guilt. it is done to distract from obamacare. this president has a reductionist view of the u.s. system in place for nearly 200 years before he graduated high school. no basis foris that. what the president called for not callinge was

for hopelessness. he was calling for a renewed effort to help the vast majority of americans. by ensuring they have access to andth care and education skills and training. so that they can advance. he called for a very important priority for the center for american progress, investment in preschool. he was calling for investing in our people. that is a positive thing. he pointed out that instead of putting our focus on helping corporations and those at the of the economic spectrum, we need to help those who are struggling to make ends meet. and struggling to advance in the economy. host: that speech can be watched at c-span.org. i am sure at the center for american progress's website as well. howard, california, republican

line. caller: good morning. i am just about worn out. i am 73 years old and have lived through a caller: my first one was barry goldwater. i went through the great society and the war. i have lived with $17 trillion in debt. the one question i would like to that reducing taxes fine. we have to concentrate on job creation. what i think she means is that that areo create jobs available. she wants to stimulate the job

market by adding more debt. since that of giving industry -- opportunity the app instead of giving industry the opportunity to expand. abilityhem to have the to move this economy. as they have done forever. i would ask one more question. what has government for produced -- ever produced to create a profit and create a better living standard for this country? host: we got your points. we appreciate your call. guest: first of all, when i talked about job creation, i do not think that means creating progress. you are referring to the recovery act. it was effective in jumpstarting the economy when we were at a

low point in the recession. i can think of a lot of ways that we could support job creation and industry in creating those jobs. for example, raising the minimum wage. that would lead to job creation. spend,have more money to you could create consumer demand. we expect that the corporate world would be responsive to that. we are not advocating like it tax increases. we are talking about having a tax system that is more fair to the average american. there are a lot of loopholes. for example, we have a corporate loophole that supports executives in the corporate world. that money would be better spent with tax reductions for middle income families. people would create consumer

demand. host: by the way, this just came out. harry reid's statement from this morning. he is not feeling well. as a precaution, he has decided to go to the hospital. everything is normal. he is resting and feeling better. doctors have asked that he remain in the hospital for observation. he will not be working today. that is a statement that could affect what will happen with the schedule that we talked about earlier this morning. keep your eye on the senate for the next day or days. greg in sioux falls, republican. he e-mails in. spendy he sees things, we dirty $500 a year and bring home $2900 per year. if you add nine zeros, you have

idiotder who the in dash was who gave this money away. if you add nine zeros, you have to wonder who the idiot was who gave this money away. host: -- guest: we have put forth ideas for reform. we could reduce spending. we put forth a plan that would reduce government spending by $400 billion in terms of cuts to medicare. that would be cuts that are targeted at what we think are unnecessary expenditures. without cutting benefits to recipients. i would just urge the person e- mailing to take a look at the website. we do have a lot of ideas in terms of how to spend money effectively. who: here is a twitter-er

is responding to the last caller from california. he says caller, you are old enough to know that it is not the governments job to produce a profit. the next call comes from scott in deep river, minnesota. democrat. caller: hi. river, minnesota. i think you are doing a good inc. here. a lot of progressive ideas. leader and majority the president speaking on a lot of these issues that you are proposing right now. i also think that, as far as difficult to very get much done. -- the last colors

caller was 73 years old. democratic. thinks that the democrats put up programs and do not realize that -- that is the stimulus to. without that going out to the communities, like small communities, it would be very devastating if privatization of social security or volunteers for medicare. these are the things that progressive stands for. thee also stimulate economy. even though many progressive ideas do not get out, i think that the mere fact that we have a president and a majority leader -- a lot of things that would have been enacted do not get enacted.

i think that is progress in and of itself. host: thank you. guest: thank you for those comments. i do agree. i share your frustration about things not getting done. i hope that will change. perhaps this will help to create the momentum. there are a lot of ideas that are good for the country and good for people in this country. they do have bipartisan support. i would point to immigration reform is one of those. the bill has not been perfect from any vantage point. the senate did produce a bipartisan bill that had leadership on both sides of the aisle. that should be able to move forward. i also hope that there are a lot of ideas around in the long- term. investing in education for children. that is no investment for which there is good data that every dollar we invest gets seven dollars back. that is something that many governors at the state level

have embraced. i share the frustrations and the lack of progress. i do think there is reason to believe that future progress is possible. tweet -- if we want higher wages, we need more workers. that will raise prices for the poor. another says that inequality is the greatest moral issue of our day. even the pope agrees. -- anothernomic, and economic comment -- three comments via twitter. we have an e-mail as well. i read about the dude -- the difficulties stem from loss of

manufacturing jobs. i agree that we need to invest in manufacturing. i do think that there is reason to believe that we can bring back jobs. they have been taken out of the country and brought in. that is important thing to focus on. comment,of the other the point about minimum wage is good. we're not asking for to be raised. we are asking for parity. balancedairly initiative. there is recent polling that shows that most americans agree with that. it is the right thing to do and it will increase consumer demand and help to stimulate the economy. --t: correlation tweets in progress is curing cancer and putting a man on mars. nothing to do with taxes.

guest: i think i would say they curing cancer and putting men on mars cost money. it is not that i think that we rich, unfairly tax the but our current tax code is an equitable. we should bring more balance to it. rather than giving corporate ceos deductions for their corporate jets, we should be investing in things like research and development that could lead to curing cancer are reporting a man on mars. that is a rational choice for us to make. host: a call from farmington, new mexico. republican line. caller: this is fantastic. i have been wanting to talk to a progressive for a very long time. i do not think we get a conversation going. until anever have known

couple of years ago. you were interviewing a gal named ebony. she had written a book called "the forgotten man." saying shehillary wanted to be known as a progressive. the progressives back then were card-carrying members of the communist party. obama -- telling you that he had a stimulus plan. he admitted to it. he said it. the jobs were not as ready as he thought they would be. every time the government tries to get in the business of manufacturing jobs, whether with , might as well be

$15 per hour. if someone is not putting out a product or service that is worth $10 per hour, he will not hire that person. you end up not having jobs. you have congress sold on your program. even though it is ego and terry and to raise the minimum wage, they will not create jobs with it. the reason you'll not is because employers will not hire somebody who is not making them a profit. unless they are trained to do something. host: hang on. let's have carmel martin respond. guest: i guess i would say as a progressive that i am not a communist. i believe strongly in a democratic government. in terms of minimum wage, i think there is good evidence that when we have raised minimum wage in the past, states are doing it. it does not lead to reduction in

jobs. it does increase consumer demand. i think that it is a good strategy for helping the average american. it also helps to build the economy. i think there are other things that we should be doing to help promote the economy. that includes research and development and the building of infrastructure. therek that it is time -- is room for debate, but we have not had that debate. the focus has been on x close of has beending cuts -- exclusively on spending cuts. congress will help us get past that and have a healthy debate about what are the best ways to support the economy. host: response to that. caller: i would prefer the guest to use numbers and statistics.

they are available to anybody. when you raise the minimum wage, you reduce unemployment. people cannot afford to hire people at minimum wage. it is called the invisible effect. you cannot see somebody who did not get a job. the employer could not pay them the amount of money that you want them to pay. there is nobody saying i did not get that job because you raised the minimum wage to high. that is what happened. host: thank you. we will leave it there. any final comments? guest: take a look at our website. we have information about the impact on the minimum wage. we look at unemployment data. it does not lead to large increases in him and pointed. host: you call it middle economics. am i saying that right? guest: the idea behind it is

that for decades, there has been a push for trickle-down economics. if we help the people at the top, they will help to grow the economy. if you look at the times in our history when that has been the prevailing policy, that has not been the case. we believe that the way you grow the economy is from the middle out. have people move into it and stay in it. that is the way to generate growth. it makes sense. people are doing well and have enough money to support their families. they are able to buy things in the market. that is helpful to the economy. host: we have a another tweet. i will let you explain. the center for american progress is up by billionaire brothers. i forgot their names. that is what they say. i think they might be thinking

about the koch brothers. guest: yes. i do not know what the relationship is. i would assume that is what they are talking about. we have no relationship with them. they are not likely to be considered supporters, cents our policy is different. ant: recently, there was article in the washington post that said you took corporate how else to get funding? guest: 50% of our money comes from individuals and 50% is from foundations. we have a very small amount of funding that comes from corporations. about six percent of the total budget. i can assure you that the funders have no direction for what we worked on. we're very focused on what is the best idea out there.

we're happy to get support. we needed to keep operating. we are fiercely independent. that -- i know firsthand the donations do not drive the work we do. host: john is going back to the white house. guest: he is. host: he is one of the founders, right? guest: it is a sad day for the center for american progress, but we are thrilled that he is going to push progressive ideas for the president. we think the president is very lucky to have him. he has tremendous strategic and subsystem policy -- substantive policy decisions. host: democrat in illinois. hello. caller: hi. i am very much progressive. i think that is the only way to move the country forward. the status quo has not been this anywhere. i do not see much change.

all i see is the neighborhood crumbling. high rates are going up. sickness and everything else. domestic violence -- everything goes up. on a collective society. when we are better off, guess what? take a bucket of water and get the desert what. i am throwing it in the ocean. if i get the desert wet, i will throw that water on the desert. we can use the policy correctly. that puts us against third world nations. they expect us to compete. we were already a lucrative economy. already against people who are not as advanced as we are. host: we're going to leave it

there. response to that call? guest: i think what people want is a country that provides opportunity for them. where they are determining their own destiny and the government will help. we need to focus on making sure our youngest children have access to preschool education. make sure that families can afford to send their children to college. make sure that we invest in research and development to help spur innovation. we support people in terms of offering them health care. i think that these are all positive goals. i think there is room for support from all sides. i think that is what we really need to stay focused on. kevin isumbus, ohio,

calling on the independent line. caller: good morning. first time calling in. thank you for taking my call. basically, earlier i heard some calls about the health care act. a quick comment on health care. i do think it is a good idea. i do not support everything that is going into this. i do not think anyone should before it. even if you're forced to buy something, like car insurance, you do not necessarily want to use it. a lot of people complain about obamacare. you cannot make someone go to a doctor. i think that what the president is trying to do is good for the country, but i do not support everything that he has done. i spent a few years working in the health care industry. one of the things that i remember -- they supported

ss plan, where you had a choice of doctors and paid for services. the doctor charges a fee and you go for your primary care doctor to see a specialist. knee problem, you go to the best knee guy. health care reform -- it seems like there are a bunch of agendas out there. just to make sure that the president is doing what he wants to do. has he made some mistakes? absolutely. i think that congress needs to work together to get this thing fixed. thingsre a bunch of where people have petitions to sign to stop affordable health care. even someone in a wheelchair. he was not on the health plan. my question was, would you buy this wheelchair? his answer was

no. host: can you wrap this up? caller: his answer was i have medicare. that is a government health plan. host: carmel martin. guest: he brings up good points. the existing flaws may not be perfect. it does provide a much-needed insurance. one of the things that we do not get enough focus on his the missed opportunities. there are governors that are choosing not to take advantage of the medicaid. we wouldere to do so, have 4.8 million americans with access to health care. that is something that people talk about. how can we move forward in those places? by and large, this provides people with a much-needed opportunity. it is not a single-payer system.

it is a market based system. it was based on ideas that were generated by the heritage foundation. that is a conservative policy think tank in d.c. it was championed in massachusetts. is -- what people need to focus on is how we improve upon it. make sure that people are able to hold onto their health care. host: wanda in evanston, illinois. democrat. you have the last word. caller: hello. i am with this lady. i am 70 years old. when i got out of high school, my parents could not afford to send me to a state university. i do not understand what is so obvious. can you see that there has

already been a redistribution of wealth? you can't see that? less than five are sent own 90% of everything? come on. as long as i worked, i have never worked for $7.25. they cannot afford to pay. they can write off fines. give me a break. host: that is wanda. guest: thank you for those comments. i think that you are absolutely right. we need to work on college affordability. again, to give people an opportunity to get what they need to be productive members of the economy. historically, that is much more within the average middle-class reach. it is moving further out of reach.

institutions like the one that you attended -- that is another issue that we can hopefully get past. there is a constant threat of crisis. we can have discussions about what we can do as a country. 13,hildren are only 10 and but college will be affordable for them. same for all americans. host: we have been talking with our first time guest, carmel martin at the center for american progress. these come back. one more segment left in our show this morning. this will be america by the numbers. we will be looking at how american students stacked up internationally. that is as "washington journal" continues. ♪

>> she was everyone's full sister. everyone that -- thought they knew her. she laid her life out for everyone to see. she told us what life was like in suburbia. for women in the 1960s through

the 1990s. one of the wonderful things about her was that she wrote humor. it was humor that was accessible to everyone. because it was humor that happened in everyone's lives. they might not recognize this until they saw it written on the page. things happen all the time. we have to be on the lookout for them. she was the one who focused our attention on the funny things that happened in the family. certain things that seem like craziness and driving you nuts. when you look back at them, you say that was really funny. that is a gift. that is a literary gift. bomife and times of erma

beck. saturday at noon on c-span two. -- we bring public affairs of and from washington direct it to you. we put you in the room at congressional hearings, white house event, briefings, and conferences. complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the house. created by the cable tv industry before -- 34 years ago. you can watch us in hd. journal"ngton continues. host: this is our by the numbers segment. we will look at how american students stack up internationally. we will talk about that in just a minute. we have robert rothman and jack buckley, who is the

commissioner of the national center or education statistics. he has been on this show before. we're talking about a program for international student assessment. pisa, what is it? thet: it is court mated by organization for economic cooperation and development. they have tested 65 different countries or educational systems. in reading, mathematics, and science. host: how often is the study done? guest: every three years. it is always expanding and problem solving. they looked at financial literacy this time around. host: how is it done? what techniques do they use? guest: it would be impossible to sample all of the kids. they take a sample, a representative sample from each country. they get extensive assessments. not every kid gets every

question. everything inred reading, math, and science. we had to take the whole thing. host: how long has this been going on? guest: thing goes back to 2000. some subjects were added along the way. host: here is a summary of the u.s. pisa. the u.s. ranked higher in reading. particularly poor results in mathematics. we were below the average of industrialized countries. higher percentage with low proficiency. lower percentage with high proficiency. there are a lot of words bear. what does this mean? with: one a and helps us has been -- performance has been

flat for the past decade. there has been virtually no change. other countries, meanwhile, have gone up over time. the relative rankings have declined. we have ended up in reading around the average for industrialized countries. in science, slightly below, and did not, well below. host: the education systems that were used -- guest: the organization for economic development -- host: what is a partner economy? guest: countries that are not us or germany or france. host: they did the whole u.s. and three states. connecticut, florida, and massachusetts. guest: they elected to to participate.

we got results from their states. we looked at the united states on average and other countries. massachusetts was about average. connecticut was as well. florida was below. host: when you hear that we have been steady for the last 13 years, are you pleased with that? guest: no. we have been undergoing a lot of educational reforms. in almost every state. to see no improvement in performance is disturbing. it is consistent with other results. this is ministered periodically to 12 graders. there are slightly different forms. they have fallen flat. information that we

have, it is concerning that performance has not improved at a time when there is a need for higher academic performance. host: we have divided the phone lines for this segment. they are on the screen right now. parents, teachers, administrators. we want to talk to school related people. if you are a student, feel free to call and on any line. we will be glad to talk to as well. please go ahead and start dialing and. you can send a comment on twitter or e-mail as well. you worked for the national center for educational statistics. guest: we try to measure

anything that has to do with education around the country. host: do you have an opinion on the u.s. standings here in these most recent numbers? guest: i have thoughts and opinions. in general, it is our job. we're reporting the facts and letting others draw conclusions. we pay a lot of attention to make sure they are accurate. host: he said that other countries have been going up. why have they been going up? guest: i think it is important to note that some countries have declined as well. maybe a lot of folks are not happy that we have not seen improvement, but we have also not been slipping. countries like finland, for example, are often held up as exemplary's. they do score well. but their scores have been falling.

you have to be careful about including why and look at all of these. host: let's go through the top 10. who won and who did not? that are the countries beat the u.s. in math. you can see the score here of 613. a new country called shanghai- china. there followed by ingapore and hong kong-china. assume these are capital cities. guest: there is not much else. it is important to note that they are not countries. that is why we label them that way. singlei is just a province of china and not representative of the country as a whole. host: what is special about

shanghai? guest: well, there has been a lot of speculation. guest: one thing that shanghai -- maybe the united states is moving towards this -- emphasizing what they expect students to know. to drive home facts, but to understand concepts and have opportunities to apply knowledge to real problems. it is not a test of what you have done in school, it is how well you can apply what you have learned to real world problems. we're moving in that direction with state standards. they have adopted these and placed emphasis on solving problems.

they're using knowledge to think critically. host: why again shanghai? are they special? to elite students go there to study? guest: there was controversy about that. i do not know all the facts. there are a number of migrant students who come in to work in shanghai. they do not live there. there was question about whether they were included or not. host: the whole nation was not tested as a whole? guest: we're always trying to expand and bring in more. we will get a lot more 2015. shanghai, singapore, hong then, japan,-- etc.tenstein, netherlands, the averages for 94.

the u.s. is at 481. queer in the same category as norway, portugal. lithuania, sweden, and hungry. massachusetts scores at the same level as germany. connecticut is at the same level as austria. interpret this when it comes to that. guest: the united states has less wealth and math. pisa found was an emphasis on mathematics. there was more detail on what students know and what their school experiences. one thing is that students actually performs better than average on relatively easy questions. a number in a table, for example.

they did a lot less well on problems where they had to model mathematics. they took actual situations to figure out equations. then solve it. those are the kinds of areas that other countries do much better on. host: science. interpret these numbers for us. guest: science is somewhat more optimistic than mathematics. the u.s. is tied with industrialized nations. we come in right around the same. a couple of our states participated. they outscored us on average. similarly, they placed among the leading systems. florida is lower than us on the averages well. four asian countries right at the top. finland, estonia, korea,

vietnam, etc. is there any difference when you measure the u.s. as a whole? often, we hear about how diverse we are. these other countries are not diverse. is that still true? guest: there's certainly some truth to that. we have a complex mix of all different kinds of kids living in all different sorts of school districts. they're educated in different conditions. some of these countries are more homogeneous. think about singapore. they do have low income students. we have to realize that many of the challenges that we face are faced in most of the other countries. i would not want over claim that. guest: if you look at overall, the united states is at the same level of economic diversity as the average. there are more immigrant

students. host: have you seen an impact of no child left hind? -- behind? guest: it is hard to draw a correlation. tests are given periodically. these correspond to the. period before and there has been no improvement. it is hard to see with that might've been. host: are they going up or down? guest: we do not have any 15- year-old assessments internationally. we do have a longer-term series of assessments that we look at. we look at 17-year-old and 13- year-olds. the 17-year-olds have been flat for decades. kids,look at the younger we have seen steady improvements over the longer term. even over 20 years. they have made an improvement, especially in math.

eighth graders are just starting to show an improvement in reading. it is somewhere along that 15- year-old and 17-year-old brightpoint where we do not see any growth. host: you are with the alliance for excellent education. tell us what that is and why use ink that is. stymied at 15 and 17. guest: we are a policy and advocacy organization. we began in 2001. we focus on policy for secondary schools. time,ognize that, at the there was interest in high schools. we have been working since then to try to solve more resources for high schools.

that really directly affects high school students and for fills their unique needs. they are not represented in policies that are more general. host: let's take some calls. we have a few statistics out there. albany, oregon -- a parent. question or comment? caller: good morning. i thank you for showing up. a couple of quick comments. number one, the amount of money that the government spends on education is not adequate for the amount of children in america. number two, standardized teaching, what it does is say that there is only one way to teach and that is the only way to teach. children are not one-way teachable. you have to have teachers that have the ability to teach more than one. i am 60 now. i did not get long division.

my teacher said let's try this. we tried three or four different types of long division. i finally got it. i understand that way. this was something that the teacher had to know. nowadays, we teach teachers one dimension and nothing else. we have a problem there. host: do your kids go to public or private schools? caller: they are out of school. they are in their 20s and they were left behind. host: comment for darrell. guest: one thing about looking at the practices of high- performing countries is that they place more emphasis on preparing teachers effectively so that they are ready to go in classrooms and teach all students well. they are more selective in who becomes the teacher and they make sure that all teacher candidates go through rigorous preparation programs.

they provide a lot of support once they are in classroom. there is a lot more variability in that. the programs are less selective. not all teachers go through the same preparation. in a lot of cases, they are left on their own. they place a lot of emphasis on trying to adjust that and improve the perforation of teachers. buckley?missioner guest: i understand where you're coming from among division. the point about standardized teaching is very different. i would like to clarify what bob said about standards. you can have content standards and want kids to learn these things. these things are high bar. that does not necessarily help teachers learn how to do that.

the point is that states are trying to ratchet up standards. they say it is not acceptable for you to leave and not in a long division. you have to be taught it by this great. we will not tell you how to do it. most states do not either. it is left up to local autonomy. host: james is calling from auburn hills, michigan. he is a teacher. what do you teach? caller: i teach sixth grade. i teach in a suburban school district. host: public? caller: yes. it seems like every time we have these test results, there is a lot of conversation that occurs outside of the classroom. i have two questions. they may have just touch on them. one is the correlation of poverty to performance. i have seen statistics that says that the united states has a very high rate that correlates to a lower ranking.

question i have a about the premise of free and appropriate public education. if that same standard throughout the rest of the world and other countries that were tested -- one comment that was brought up, in michigan, we have elections on the back end once teachers are in the classroom. we should be more selective on the front end. that is what we see happening here in michigan. guest: i want to address the poverty issue. correct me if i am wrong. a found that there was relatively high correlation andeen economic status other countries with lower correlations. that means that they are performing -- their lower

economic students performed better. also, based on perception, because the united states has a relatively high poverty index, there are low income students. if you look at the performance of students by income quartile, the top quartile of american at 26ts still perform among industrialized countries. our top income students are not doing well either. host: anything to add to that? guest: there are a lot of ways to look at the question. --re are some questions countries where the correlation between poverty and academic outcomes is higher. that is not universal.

there are examples to the contrary. it is true for the first time and we have seen data here, that the gap between the performance -- thehighest quartile 25% and the bottom 25% is the same. as you break things down, there is not as much inequity in the u.s. at all. host: -- guest: we did an analysis looking at the top performers. student to perform at the top levels. states, although

the average has been relatively flat, the performance has been declining. the gap closing might be part of the result on down. you have to draw a distinction between kids. it is measured by sales. host: here's an e-mail from steve. the wall street journal said in an editorial that only 30% of china's students are allowed to go on to high school. why do we attempt direct comparison to china or other countries that limit admission to high school and higher education? guest: what is interesting about the studies is that every one of these countries is very different from each other. i could find a ton of reasons. why do we look at any system that does not have a federal system like ours? the u.s. is unique, why do we

compare ourselves to anyone? if you go down that road, it is all valid points. we have to step back and say maybe we should think about those factors as well. the selectivity and the funnel within the country. that shapes their outcomes. all of these things. they are not reasons to throw out comparisons. their reasons to understand what is going on. host: elizabeth e-mails -- how do we know other countries do not choose the best students to take the test while we test all 15-year-olds? guest: we spend a lot of time and i used to be on a international advisories. we look at the sampling plans and also go in and see who they picked and check them against the demographics. think about inspection visits.

a lot of time and money is spent on making sure that the data is good. marianne is calling from massachusetts on the parent line. how are your kids and where do they go to school? caller: my kids are 20 and 25. what i am calling -- host: did they go to public or private schools? caller: public. host: in massachusetts? caller: yes. especially in junior high, it was too much of a zoo. i really think that. know, i will never forget 10 years ago that i sold a car to a family from vietnam. they had been in the country for less than two years and they have very small children. they spoke broken english. i asked her how they liked

living in the united states. i will never forget the father saying how shocked he was. they had small children, like kindergarten. they were shocked at how far behind our schools were. were so fareir kids advanced, especially in map. i asked him to show me and he took out paper and was showing me the kinds of math that their kids from vietnam were able to do. host: we will have to leave it there. comparison to vietnam. guest: vietnam was one of the surprises in these results. their performance was higher than average. higher than the united states. particularly related to the question about party -- poverty. be worth investigating to see what exactly they have been doing to try to produce

these results. what foreignabout students see in the united a couplee had a friend of weeks ago -- we had a panel of students who were studying in the united states. they said schools here were much easier. anecdotal.otal, -- host: there is an op-ed in the washington post. she is the founder and director project, an yang afterschool program. is asia's on this academic obsession. they kicked american butt, academically, that is.

we have been talking about -- this goes on to write about the mom." she overheard parents talking about their sons. in said that she found him his room, not doing anything. the other gasped, shook his head -- shook her head. their sons are six years old. as a hong kong educator, she does not view their stellar results as an indicator of success. it is a sign that the education system is out of control. likewise, she urges american parents to not take the results as an indication of the feet. -- defeat. i guess the point is that americans think about what else

is out there. would you like to start? guest: it may be true that there is not session with academic success in asian countries. that does not explain canada or poland or estonia. well ono did quite these. maybe there is a middle ground. i think that you made a very important point there at the end. we spend a lot of time looking at the education results and we are very concerned in measuring something precisely. that does not mean we are measuring everything. if people get jobs and are able to develop their capital, that is one thing. i do think it is true that the united states as a whole is

generally a global powerhouse. it is not working out for everybody. education is one way that you can get a share of the american dream. we need to make sure that we provided for everybody. even if the country on average is doing well, there are a lot of problems. host: mark from new jersey, a school administrator. what is your profession? caller: i'm a child educator and i have a private business. host: education oriented? caller: not now. it was at one time. i worked in local and regional, for the national center at one time. to doestion i have has with the topic right now. it has to do with how we move so quickly up the app -- latter. it is my opinion that the countries at the top have an obsession.

they have also developed support for their children. it has overcome the obstacles. we should do the same thing. in places like detroit or east st. louis. places in the country where we are up against a very poor score. very poor scores all along. it has to do with the wealth of the parents. not enough support for the parents in the community. one person in 20 has had a successful relationship with their schools. about one person in 20 has the answer. host: we are out of time. final comments. support is important.

depends on what type of support is provided. the united states has a fair amount of activism. these things are not related to academics. there is a lesson that we can martin. host: jack buckley? guest: there are models of robust parent communities. there are also economic models were parents have worked with educators to make sure they get the education they need. we do not need to fly around the world to find examples. host: here are the line numbers that are available. .ed.gov. the u.s. in mathematics -- here are the numbers. massachusetts and connecticut are here. florida is over here. top line numbers in science. massachusetts, connecticut,

florida -- you see a trend here. finally, reading, u.s. is on average. you see massachusetts over here and connecticut over here. florida over here. aack worked for five years as nuclear reactor engineer and worked in the intelligence community and got his undergrad at harvard. -- mastersster and and phd. thert roffman is with center for alliance for excellent education.