everyone should have a voice, everyone should be able to come, everyone was welcome. >> as a closeout, we want to say thank you to our partners at the white house historical association for their help in telling the stories of the first ladies. we've been making available on i our websites, biographies of the white house. it's available at cost if you're interested. we have many more first ladies to go as the series continues. hope they'll read along with us and learn more about the interesting aspect on american history. a special thanks to our guest tonight. and to tim naphali for helping to tell her story. >> thank you very much. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] ♪

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>> over the past year our original first ladies series has look at the lives of the nation's first ladies. we'll show you highlights from our second season focusing on the 20th century. starting with edith roosevelt and finishing with rosalynn carter. that is at 9 p.m. eastern. a reminder, we will have new first lady's programs in the new year. starting with nancy reagan on monday, january 13 at nine eastern. followed by barbara bush, hillary clinton, laura bush, and michelle obama. each monday after that. live here on c-span and on c- span radio. with our partner the white house historical association, we will offer a special edition of the book first ladies of the united

states of america. providing a biography and portrait of each first lady. available for $12.95 plus products.at c-span.org/ up, a conversation on the future of television news. then author hedrick smith gives his take on the most important news stories of 2013. and later, the anniversary of akron posted a discussion on the national parties and the changing u.s. electorate. >> everything is new. the cloud is new, facebook is new and twitter is new. there is new programming languages. there is the play phase in the learn phase and the resting

phase afterwards. them at the same time. today, wemove so fast have to stay up-to-date. >> new year's day on c-span. as before on pm eastern and throughout the afternoon, ceo's and others on the future of robotics. tv.on book helped shape texas. , sharing memories of the civil rights era. news president ben sherwood and david barrett talk about the future of television news.

topics include new technology, investigative journalism, and copyright rules. in novembers held on the campus of the university of north carolina in chapel hill. [applause] >> thank you. it has been a delightful day. i got here from new york last evening and got up bright and early and we visited with the class and met some students created is the second time i have been on campus and i am impressed when i am here. he has been my lawyer and he willwhen i need you, that go anywhere that goes. he has been one of my most trusted business advisors. this has been on his mind for

years. we have talked about this over long nights. spoke a cigar and he bears with that and tells me about his vision for the university of north carolina. i am delighted to be here. i also want to give a shout out to hang price. i am not sure where he is but he is my colleague who runs wxii in winston-salem. i am glad that he is here. also a guy who is here who wore the hearst jersey. he came here for the closing chapter of his great career. he was an outstanding executive and made the company a lot of money. i am -- good to see jim again. i've been blessed to work with hearst for 30 years and i was a lucky guy who had an opportunity to run the radio station and i found a company to be a great

fit for what i was all about. ours is a company that was founded in 1887. we have been at this an awfully long time and we have been at the forefront of media as it has evolved over the last 126 years or so. first in newspapers and in magazines and radio and television and cable television. in thevery active digital media space. we will have an opportunity to talk about this tonight. mr. hearst was one of the true visionaries. early in his life as a newspaper publisher, he declared it is good business to be a good citizen and that citizenship has been a cornerstone value for our company for the last 126 years and one that resonates and all the stations where -- all the markets where we operate television stations. one quotation that is on my mind as i come here and meet students is one of teddy roosevelt who said far and away one of life's

hard privileges is to work and have a chance to work hard at work that matters. i do -- view journalism as occur that matters in this country and this in every community around this country. are aspiring to work in a business that matters, the stations and they are represented here it do work that matters in these communities and what of my abiding beliefs is that people care about what happens in their local towns and they want to hear about what has occurred in their local towns. they want to be plugged in. ben can talk well about national and international media. our business, our bread-and- butter is local media and will have an opportunity to talk about that tonight. another theme that i hope we have a chance to focus on is how culture is so important in any organization. it is particularly important in news organizations and notions

purpose and core values along the built to last theme. the notion of transparency and honesty and integrity in reporting. their values that transcend strategic changes and tactical changes that occur in media on a regular basis. those are lasting values. there was a great piece in the new york times by the public ontor, margaret sullivan october 26 that talked about values that injure and do not go out of style. one of the things that we as a company are very focused on is ethical decision-making in a digital world. we will chat about that a little bit. that is durably important. it has been a time of disruption. ours is a company that views this disruption as a time of opportunity. and williamame

randolph hearst was a gentleman who believed in innovation. we have tried to be innovative in the things we have done and the things that we have associated ourselves with. it often means taking risks and risks are a good part of what we do. -- yet acting responsibly the work we do is equally important. i love the quote from none other than bob dylan who says a hero is someone who understands the responsibility that goes with freedom. i think that ought to resonate .ith all of the journalists in recent times in the past year we have had experience with the boston bombing. we are -- our washington bureau has covered the washington shipyard shootings. there is all manner of the significant stories, some of which have been poorly handled by certain people in the media. i'm not here to criticize them and i hope we take away learnings from how people did things in the right way and how

they did things in the wrong way. there is an opportunity for us to be better as journalists. this is a great calling. i applaud the people who are engaged in pursuit of their journalism careers. they should be excited about what the future holds. as an old guy, i wish i had the opportunity to wind the clock back and have an opportunity to enter the media business at age 20 or 25. it is a great time of great opportunity. there are important careers available to people. i always think about how important the role of the storyteller and the editor is. i think about mr. hearst's farther -- father was part of the gold rush when he came across the country and there were not radio stations or television stations and there were a few newspapers but not as we know them. every night at the end of a day of long travel,

people sat around the campfire zen talk to one another. a few among us are very good storytellers. a few among us are good tellers of jokes. to me they were early journalists but i would say the same thing about armies of napoleon crossing the world. the gift that a storyteller has is very important to the people that we interact with. that is what you learn. there is a high priority on storytelling that is important to people. and the societies that we serve. there is an opportunity for us to pursue individual pieces of information and different heights of media, video, audio and the like but the motion -- notion of a media company that is an aggregator, i notion of immediate company that creates content and curates content is still very important. one bedrock principle of the

hearst corporation is we have to have a proposition for viewers and readers. you say you are a media company and you do not put something on the screen or on the page that resonates with viewers and readers are my you are not in the media business. it harkens to the line that sam nunn used to use from time to time that everyone who says they want to be a leader ought to look over their shoulder and be sure that there is someone behind the leader as he marches down the road. absent anybody behind you he said you are just out for a walk if you're not leading in all. it may be nice out for the walk but that is not what it is all about. we are going to have an opportunity tonight to chat about some things that i hope are on your mind. we will take some questions. i am delighted to be here with ben. it was good of him to come join us here. no one is busier than the president of news organizations. ben is a young guy. he is the dean of the network

news executives which tells you what a peerless job field he is in. he is a brilliant guy who has been a brilliant producer and he is about innovation in the work that he does. he has made abc news a better place and has offered a better product for the affiliates. we have become good friends and i am glad he is with us tonight. you will have an opportunity to hear his point of view about abc news and an important institution that matters in this country and this world. in the same way that the work that hank , thatn winston salem matters to those local communities. people care about their towns and the issues that occur there. it is important for us to be the storytellers in those communities. local journalism is job one for us. it defines commercial success

and makes us who we are in these markets where we have important businesses. i am one who feels it is an exciting time ahead. there's a great future for journalism. we are serving people on a lot of different platforms and we are adapting to how we produce and deliver our content but it is an exciting time. i believe the best is yet to come for this industry. we will have a chance to talk about that tonight. back and introduce ben. [applause] is -- theond speeder speaker is dan sherwood. he oversees abc news has radio,

online, and satellite services and he began his career while still a student at harvard college. in 1984 during a year off from college, he worked for the news and observer in raleigh. hoss -- theles time los angeles times's paris bureau. career his journalistic in earnest when he joined abc news in 1989. serving as an investigative associate producer and producer for abc news's prime live. after a brief stint at that network with the peacock he as executive004 producer of good morning america. it was not long thereafter that he was named president of abc's entire news division. abc news has been anything but complacent.

last year it launched a content partnership with yahoo! to create the number one news information network online. reaching nearly 100 million and serving up to half a billion 80 euros a month. abc news and univision launched fusion. i think it has been launched just recently. they stole one of my favorite and thato run it assures them of good legal advice. -- serve ande empower u.s. hispanics. the youngest and fastest growing demographic in america. he is also the author of two critically acclaimed best- selling novels. the death and life of charlie st. cloud which was adapted as a feature film. whichman who ate the 747 is also being developed as a major much in picture and a broadway musical. is a nonfiction expiration of the science and

secrets of who bounces back from everyday adversity and who does not. beats life-threatening diseases and to sitcoms and who triumphs after economic hardship and who surrenders. i see was some obvious parallels there with tonight's topic on the future of television news. please join me and work -- in welcoming and sure would. -- ben sherwood. [applause] we appreciate your warm welcome. congratulations on this great night, inaugural night erie it -- inaugural night.

we began to work together when i came back to abc news in this role. david has been a friend and mentor. usually when we sit next to each other it is in even more contentious board meetings at the abc television network. sometimes we sit next to each other and in the -- a new york knickerbockers ask a ball game. it is a privilege and honor to be here. i am looking forward to our discussion. what i look out tonight at this audience, i see a bunch of friends because as was mentioned, 29 years ago, i packed up my car in massachusetts and drove a beat- saab to north carolina

to start what was a formative experience. i began to work for the nuisance and disturb her -- the news and observer in raleigh. the editor was a beacon of great journalism. int i want to say introduction is very simple. i echo the observations that if i could do it all over again i wish that i could start right here and right now. i wish i could begin a career right now in this highly volatile, andghly highly uncertain media environment. i think the future of television news in the digital era is very bright. the future of news and information is extremely bright. i think this will give you a sense of what is to come in the

next 5, 10, or 50 years. if you think back to the beginning of two medications and storytelling and david put it best which is that news is essentially an fundamentally a social activity where cavemen once upon a time share news about where the woolly mammoths were and where the sabertooth tigers were. fundamentally, news is coming back to the hearth and saying do not hunt over there, hunter over there. news is still social in nature but it took thousands of years to go from the first stories that we are told -- that were told around the fire to the advent of being able to write things down on stone and then on paper and then being able to print them on a press. at the time between being a will to print them on a press and being able to create a radio recording was around 377 years. another 71 years until the advent of television. and then 40 years before the advent of the internet. and then 10 years before the advent of social and mobile phones.

some futurists predict the rate of change in the next 100 years would equal something like 20,000 years of change in human history. change in thef space of about 100 years. we know those disruptions are coming fast and furiously. news, we welcome those disruptions. we are excited about that change. we have begun to make the preparations to live in that new world. the new world of digital transformation, a new world of demographic transformation in the united states as this country becomes a majority, minority nation over the next 30 years and so the future is highly disrupted. that is one of the things i look forward to talking with david about tonight and it is also very bright. this is a thrilling moment for journalism. and an exciting moment to be here at chapel hill.

my job was to write the weather box. i was the first -- that was the first internship job. i occasionally would get an assignment to go out and mop up after the great rob christiansen and sometimes cover some of in some far-flung place where the beat reporters did not want to go and they would send an intern. i relished those chances. one of my jobs was to run around north carolina in my little car and go to every television station in the state and look in what is called the public file. and to see what the candidates were spending on political advertising. i like to think that i'm one of the few people in this room and perhaps in the state who has regularly visited every television stage -- station in the state. is where i fell in love with journalism and north carolina. and called my parents at the end of that internship and told them i would leave college for year and i would stay in north carolina to see that 1884 senate race to its conclusion.

that was the of the aisle between senator jesse helms and governor jim hunt. at the time, the most expensive senate rate -- race in the united states history. it galvanized national attention. and at a time will -- when i went on to write an honors theme about the changing role of race in north carolina politics going back to 1898 and 1900 with a white supremacist campaigns to 1950 when senator frank graham ran against willis smith in the democratic i marry and then a runoff and then the 1980 four race. all fodder for conversation later. let the games begin and i will join david for the discussion. thank you very much. [applause] >> to get the first question. -- you get the first question. the former,

executive editor describes this as a golden age for journalism and in particular, a golden age for international reporting. my question for you is looking at where we are right now today and looking ahead, is this a golden age for television news or is this a bronze age or silver age? what age is it in terms of television news? >> i lean more toward being a golden age. there is a world of opportunity out there or us to tell stories and all kinds of different platforms. i believe people gravitate to the best available screen. that is an opportunity for people to engage with journalism and engage with storytelling. that is very profound. willompany this year generate 5 billion page views on our website.

stations cover 18% of u.s. tv households. 10 billion ad impressions. 60% of those ad impressions are on smart phones and tablets. the migration to mobile is really extraordinary. i knew that is a great opportunity. also on each of these markets where we have tv theions, we strive to have leading source of local information on traditional television. , 80% of ourts newscasts are rated number one or number two. we have go to television stations. i think there is a world of opportunity out there. it is not contracting. hearst is involved in the newspaper business. i see that business as contracting. our business is expanding. ofause of the proliferation all these new devices and all

these new places to view video. the world is interested in video and that is what we do for living. -- for a living. >> do you think that -- some people would say that the number of people who are watching television, studies that come out periodically, people are asked to my young people in particular are asked did you watch television news? ago, people years under 30 said they watched television news yesterday. that number as of the most recent statistics is somewhere around 33%. there is the sense that there is a declining audience particularly among young people. how do you feel about the changing demographics of the television audience? >> you who are -- people are migrating to different places. if we have to do right by our viewers we have to be there on these different devices. they will consume our media. it is very important that we have established brands.

i talked briefly about the value of the editor, the value of the storyteller. best and, wcvb is the that market. it is a great television station. we saw when the bombings occurred around the marathon that people posse viewership -- people's viewership increased. they migrated to a known trusted source for information. our audiences were typically greater than our two or three largest competitors combined. eventmes it takes a big in oklahoma city when there are tornadoes in that market. demographic patterns change, younger people do gravitate to locallocal news and information. it is a challenge to remain relevant. if you say to me what am i worried about in the next four

or five years, it is maintaining that relevancy. we have to stay invested in the business. we have to recruit the best and brightest people out of institutions like this and find a people -- a place for them and put resources in this business in a proactive way so we remain relative -- relevant and create reasons to watch our stations and read our publications. >> the title of this onversation could, building what david said, could be slightly modified. we both share the belief that the word television news is one questionable relevance. stationshat david's create and what abc news creates, we create audio storytelling that can exist on a television station. it can also exist on an ipad or iphone or any smart phone. the question is what is the future of video journalism in a digital age? all the content

creators and all the students who are here tonight who are journalism,evision you're going to go into a profession that is a profession that is video journalism. telling stories with pictures that will then be projected to all kinds of screens. some of them will be television screens. some will be the ones in your laps that one can watch on a watch application or on a wallet think the future is very bright and very robust. there is clear evidence that more and more people are consuming more and more video journalism, not just on television, but on all kinds of devices. adapting your story telling your production for different devices? gma, to dohing to do diane's show at 6:00, 6:30 in

the evening. how do you view the need to adapt productive and -- adapt production techniques? >> once upon a time, when the web was bolted onto the side of news organizations and digital was literally strapped on to these broadcast organizations, the theory was to simply take the creations of dollars in shows and put them out on the web and maybe make them a little bit shorter. noti think that it is profound or a result to know that the web requires and these devices require their own content give we simply can't take what works on television and put it on a mobile phone or a tablet. we have to customize it. our teamt example, took the abc news ipad app,

which was one of the first in this space -- you made recall the spinning blue globe -- and they decided to look at how people use and consume the information on the ipad, which is different from the way they consume it on a television set. they realize that, in the morning, a watch short bursts of information. so we created day parting on the news app. so they get one expense of the morning which is short. at lunchtime, when people like to snack more, we created a different format for the lunchtime period. and then that, people like to curl up with their laps -- with their apps and we created three different expenses that are customized for this particular kind of device. one size does not fit all. we cannot take television and put it on the web. for eacheating content of the different experiences. >> social media is a spectacularly interesting tool.

news organizations are trying to figure out how to use it in a responsible way. it is fraught with opportunities and also enormous challenges and risks. how do you manage your newsroom? what kind of conversations do you have about using social media and sources and the like? to get thatin order paragraph of whether copy into the news and observer with a circulation of a couple hundred thousand readers, it had to go through to editors. that was running the goblet of two editors who seemed to believe the fierce and ferocious and would rewrite all 75 words because they were not up to stuff. .- up to snuff today, some of our young people right out of school who are social media editors have access with the flick of a twitter switch.

they can communicate with literally millions of people -- directy editorial editorial oversight or editing because they are the social media interaction with the audience. a million people at world news. million plus at abc world america. these are the things we think about a lot. there are so few filters and editing writers over that social media interaction. but because it is branded abc news, it has the same stamp. it has the same importance as abc news so we think about that a lot. >> how about at the stations? importance relative of social media and getting your anchors and correspondents and your television stations engaged in the audience? tool, butn important it requires real responsibility and how we use that tool.

we are very mindful of outsourcing and using facebook, for instance, as a source. it carries a real risk with it. i ask you to raise your hand if you believe that your two pagest friends' facebook 100% accurate on what everything -- on everything that is portrayed on the page and nobody raises her hand. and people are in the country, people go to that faced the page and use it as a source. it is a conversation that has to happen in every newsroom. hasjob of the news director always been critically important, but it carries with it a lot more responsibility than it ever has before. be duringmed as can the marathon bombing and the aftermath, the hours that followed with the random reckless nature of social media posting accusations and implicating individuals who had nothing to do with what occurred

in boston. there was a posting on the web of an eight-year-old girl wearing a number as though she had run in the boston marathon, which of course he hadn't, and it more and her death. and --s -- and it more death.mou mourned her and a lot news organizations ran with it. the apprehension of the bombers, they implicated a fellow at brown university who was convicted in no way with the same. "the new york daily news" ready picture on the front page, if you have seen these people, and they were the people involved in the bombing -- directly this this -- the recklessness of it was frightening. >> we have committed to an entire program that we call abc, which is for accuracy and balance and credibility.

editors, asal media i mentioned earlier, will have to go through strict and rigid rules about what they can send out and what they can't throw the different reporting, the priority is to get it right. in our business, it is always to try to be first-in to be right. but in this age, the value of being first has declined rapidly and the importance of being right has never been more significant. one of the things that we noticed during the attacks in kenya in the shopping mall was that, very quickly, parity twitter feeds began to -- thaty twitter feeds began al-shabaab had claimed responsibility. there's all kinds of valuable information that we can gather and can collect from social media about what is happening. everyone can send in pictures and see what is happening.

at the same time, there are all kinds of prices under the type to -- types who jump in there and try to have fun and cause mischief. receiving end of trying to filter all that information and trying to figure out what is real and what is not real and to have checks and balances in being able to check out all of these different accounts, we have a whole social media team the mobilizes in these instances to begin to try to digest that information and check out what is verifiable and what is not verifiable. >> there is an obsession with being first. you said it is better to be right than first. i certainly agree with that. talk about election night in 2012 when ohio was up for grabs. everyone was clamoring to be the first one to declare president obama reelected. york at the new election center was monitoring the results coming in from ohio.

>> we had to challenges. right around 7:00 p.m., we suffered a massive power outage at our studio. team was literally sitting in the dark for 20 minutes. there were no lights. it was because we had plugged in some heaters from the outside to keep some of our team warm in times square and they had been stuck into a wall. heaters plugged in some and blew out the entire system. the electrical team ran from the basement in times where up to the cable to plug us back in to keep us on the air. this is our network. [laughter] >> david knows the story. the second thing that happened that night was that we know what

happened in a previous presidential election when major news organizations did not call the election correctly. we have said to our election team and our projection specialists do we have to be right. we just have to be right. so there was a gap between abc news coverage and projection of ohio and some of the other networks somewhere between eight to 15 minutes. that is an agonizing time because one sees other networks proclaiming that president obama has been reelected president and abc news is not there. in fact, on some of the scree's -- some of the screens behind the varioust election headquarters, the crowds are going crazy because others have reported and abc news is not there. our job is to get it right. and if we get it wrong, we lose credibility and trust. so sometimes it will take us a little bit longer. in other elections, in other

situations, we have been ahead of other people. so we have great trust in our team and we cannot push the team. we have to let them come to that in their own way. >> was abc news damaged in any way because it was not first that night? >> i don't know the answer to that. i think it would have been much more damaged if we had gotten something wrong. i don't think abc news was. today i bring it up. i remember it. but i don't think people remember who was first or second or third on the air. but the consequences of being wrong are much more embarrassing and much more damaging. >> can i just interrupt? you've talked about in the past about the importance of winning. can you define winning? most people think that winning in television or some people might think that adding in television is defined by ratings. how do you define winning on

election night and on all other nights? >> winning for hearst television is about conducting yourselves with integrity, about ruby tatian. it's about -- with integrity. it's about ruby tatian. reputation.t top profitability that allows us to reinvest in the business to provide the kind of service that needs to be provided and employ the people that we employ and fulfill our mission as broadcasters. so it is a lot more than just ratings. think there are some people with a narrow point of view that at whatever win cost, it is worth of the wind. we will put our name -- we don't want to put our name on a win that came with the loss of integrity. we don't want to damage our

reputation. ratings are critically important and revenue generation is important and profitability is important. these are very competitive businesses. we have been in business in the television space since the very first days in 1948 and we have said,n business, as i since 1887. one's ability to stay in any business that long depends upon successful operation of the commercial enterprise. way.ave to do in the right and we're pretty greedy. jim hefner and hank price will attest to this that we have pretty high standards in terms of wanting it all, but wanting it all with the right responsible way to conduct ourselves as a business enterprise. >> in that context for the the students center here, what are you looking for when you're hiring someone for hearst? among thehe qualities

young people who you are bringing into your organization? >> not necessarily in this order -- passion is really important. love what you do. i don't think you can be successful in any endeavor unless you've got passion for what that is. i think the people that we hire are smart, curious people. curiosity is something that i like to see when we checked with people and interview people. there are skills that can be developed if there is a lot of skill development at this institution. but passion and curiosity and a sense of urgency are really important. i think sense of humor is really important. i think that eisenhower said that sense of humor is one of the most important qualities a leader can have. i look for that in people that we talked to. i think the people who are most successful in any endeavor have a passion for what they are

doing and they bring with it a whole package of skills that are required. writing is important. eye, if people are photographers. importantaught me how and how elusive judgment is for people. it is a quality that is hard to tell or to show people, educate people about how to have good judgment. but it is terribly important. we are in the newsroom. you have someone you has to make a decision about whether they go to air with a story. judgment is really, really important. so those are the kinds of qualities that we are looking for. >> i would add one quality, go,h is sort of that inner which is the story that lewis mumford described it, the fire from inside, lit up from inside, self-starter. >> absolutely.

>> just driven, that inner go in that inner drive to get things done, to make a difference. how does a newsroom learn from and respond to mistakes? think of the navy yard shooting in d.c. last mother a few weeks back and two of your competitors misidentified who the shooter was. andkly or not so quickly, had to go on and retracted the name that they had put out over the airways. how do you do with mistakes? how much is management involved in the control room or the breaking news and permit? -- news environment? >> first of all, we take the trust that you described. that is paramount. we know that the trust of the audience and our integrity is primary. we also know that mistakes happen.

so we have elaborate systems in place to protect against making mistakes. we train and drill for every kind of scenario so that we make very few mistakes. happen know that they do and, when they do happen, we try to correct them as quickly as we possibly can, as clearly as we can, and then set out to learn from them and not make them again. i think that one of the things that we know from our friends in thatapers and magazines is there is that little spot in the newspaper where the corrections appear and mistakes happen in journalism. it is just part of the process that we want to reduce as much as we possibly can -- there are many good systems and many good people in training and we try every civil day to make sure that we are, as we talked about, being right among not just first.

>> when we make mistakes, we try to correct those. first, you have technology made the mistake. that means there can't be a sense of this additional arrogance in any station. but we try to address the mistakes as quickly as we can and in the same spot that we made the mistake. get out in front of that and that is the advice of good lawyers, but it is also just a matter of common sense. that is the right way to go. i think that helps us preserve the trust the people have for the station. you can't make excuses about the mistakes you made. i had one experience that is ugly to tell, but one of our -- thes some years ago station was doing a story about pedophile priests. there was a priest arrested. to the seminary yearbook and did a story on this fellow and they selected the photograph

.f father o'flaherty and next to father o'flaherty was father o'flynn and it was father o'flynn had a problem, not father o'flaherty. and a viewer called the television station and said you got the wrong guy. saidur station at the time we know what we are doing. we don't make those kinds of mistakes. and we went with the story at 6:00 and we want the story at 11:00 and it was a dastardly mistake. correct and made it contributed to that we had toe -- one correct and made a contribution to that archdiocese. [laughter] people come to a station in these kinds of circumstances. you can't be -- you can't have such a high sense of certitude that i can't be wrong because this is what i do for a living. i fear certitude wherever i see it to -- see it.

it is never created. it is never thoughtful. and people have that sense of certitude, beware. that, thankake goodness, we haven't repeated in our universe. but it is a nostra to problem -- it is an ostrich of -- but it is an ostrative problem. with strained or limited resources, it is affecting journalism. >> i think it is important as newspapers diminish investigative reporting and pullback resources. i don't think we do enough of it. have haduebeard's, we workshops for our reporters about how to do -- the last couple of years, we have had

workshops for our reporters about had to do investigative reporting. there is so much competition out there and so much cost competition. starve good news organizations and good news television stations. in five years come in many markets, there won't as many stations doing the kind of news that we do and we have a responsibility to our viewers and a responsibility to our shareholders to do everything we can to make these businesses and dotive and grow things that the audience wants from us. the country, the society benefits from investigative journalism. are not us if we allocating resources to do that. we are a company that believes it. we did an investigative piece

for wba otb a few years back --t resulted -- four w ball we did an investigative piece tv.wbal notrry about newspapers staying the course and doing the job they do. a friend of mine from detroit had a cover station where he would observe that the correctness, the corruption in the mayor's office, which was somewhat legendary, wouldn't have been uncovered without the enterprising work of the newspaper there. i'm not sure that the tv stations would have devoted the resources over a long time to identify the kind of corruption. and i think we, as a society, need to be sure that that is happening. >> go back to your mention of baltimore because i think that, especially for an audience of a

lot of students in people ,hinking about careers in media you have not arrived where you are without taking some risks and had some wins and not wins. do you care to tell us any stories about your moments of taking big risks, taking big swings and how those turned out? and what you learn from them? >> i imagine you're referring to -- this is 1985 or 1986. i arrived at wbal radio as a manager. had thethe 1950s, they orioles games. then we lost the orioles games to a high bid gave one of my objectives when i got there was to try to repatriate the orioles . then and now, the rights fees on these things are really staggering. thingsard to run things -- run these things and a

profit. we hope to create a halo effect and the overall effect of having the games that illuminates the whole station. i had in my mind. so i went up to new york and sold my pants off to my boss to the ceo of the hearst corporation. they liked my enthusiasm and my passion and they put me through the hoops, every business model thing. i had an answer for everything. i went back home and we made a deal with the orioles and i thought now we will really get it going. year that the orioles started to 0-22. [laughter] and i was dying. i was dying. we couldn't sell advertising to anybody. there was this morbid curiosity about the team that all they did was lose. jim hefner was in the company at that time.

the young radio guy down there thought he was hot stuff. he signed up the orioles. there was a lesson there. bennettaway and frank teasing me but never be me up. they supported the decision. i.refore the grace of god go but it was a formative kind of decision. i lived to tell about it in the hearst corporation. it is funny 28 years later. [laughter] so we have about another half hour and i am wondering whether you think it is time to open it up. >> yeah, let's take some questions. >> because we are recording this, we need to get the c.estions on mi

>> once you get the first question rolling, then it goes really well in my experience. you bothof all, thank so much for being here. i am a journalism major here. he mentioned your fear of what to long-term investigative journalism with the decline of newspapers. asanted to know what you see role.sion's changing >> i think good televisions will develop more resources for investigative journalism. we will train our people to do that kind of work. we are a company that is demonstrably doing that. we have some very talented investigative reporters. we will have to learn to be more patient and the newspaper people can remind us that the time

required for really great investigative journalism pieces is longer than it is typically the case for the television reporting that we do. so we will have to be more patient. we will have to train people. and we will have to put resources to it. that think you will see the best tv stations in the country do that. every year, i go to the peabody awards and we have been lucky to win a number of those awards almost every year. by theressed investigative pieces that renowned tv stations around the country are doing. we need to fill that void. i don't think the newspapers will go entirely away. i don't mean to be so negative about the newspaper industry. we own "the houston conical, and all those

newspapers are profitable this year. they are reshaping their business. they are creating more digital products and they are working hard at the work before them. their ad bases contracting. but they are finding efficiencies. i think we need to treat -- we need newspapers to survive at some form or another going forward. and treat -- our company is continuing to invest in newspaper resources so they can continue to do that kind of work. >> i would add that i think it is a very exciting time to be an investigative journalist. i started in 1989 on an investigative team. today, there are some in a different ways to pursue investigative journalism. there is television, print, all kinds of digital ventures that are doing invest it at work in all kinds of new partnerships between nonprofit organizations, online, and broadcasters. so there's all kinds of cross-

fertilization in the investigative space. just this past week, abc news teamed up with the center for public integrity in washington to do an investigative piece about the diagnosis of black lung disease at johns hopkins university. and we partner with all kinds of different outfits to make areas versus go further and to dig deeper into the very thing that david was describing, which is an important part of our mission, which is serious thattigative journalism sheds light where otherwise we can shine the light. >> it matters. that's important stuff. >> and i would say come about north carolina, one of my 1984,st memories from there was a great investigative pat was a dog in -- was investigative reporter who made all kinds of change through good old-fashioned reporting.

a thing or twome about spitting in his cup next to his desk. there were cups all over his desk with his habit for tobacco. and he taught me a lot about the importance of the time it takes to do one good investigative project. pat took months and months on every single one of those projects. >> thank you so much for your great insightful talk. can you elaborate on your position regarding [indiscernible] nailave been trying to them in courts for quite a while. ran they watch out which is what area does, which is popular. how good was the model?

what is your general sense on the? >> we are a litigation with them in boston. over the past three or four weeks, we applied to the court injunction to have them cease service until this thing could be heard by the court. that has been the case in a number of different markets. we view that matter as an infringement of our copyright. , copyrightedntent content. and we think that they are not in compliance with the copyright statutes and we think that is a problem. is a numbere broadcasters who are happy to license our content to them in the same way that we license content to telco and satellite and two cable. it feels that they have a scheme that allows them to have access to the content. we disagree with that.

ultimately, it may be a matter that goes to the supreme court to be resolved. the watch apps are a very different story. it is abc's content and they are making that available. wcvb's content and put content.app, it is our we can do with it what we want. but this is the case of someone in is taking our content violation of the copyright statute. so there is innovation there, but part of the challenge that we have as an industry is are people going to be willing to pay for the content that is generated by great journalists in this room and elsewhere? that is a challenge for the industry. there are a lot of people who feel that they can have free access to all of this content. we will be in a world that cannot sustain itself if we don't get paid for the content that we generate. station, 80% of the

revenues we generate come from advertising revenues. meaningfulgenerating fees from cable, the retransmission consent fees from cable and satellite and telco. by newspapers and magazines, everybody has an issue. we all love content, but are you willing to pay for that? last week, i met a woman named carol cousy who was a photographer at "the washington post." she has won four pulitzer prizes . i have seen her photos but i was unfamiliar with her. she did a presentation at another university and showed the most compelling photos, different themes, a number different sets of themes. hertruck me as i watched brilliance. it is a resource that the

newspapers will want to hold onto as best they can. we are going to miss out on brilliant storytelling from still photographers who were geniuses if there are too many cutbacks. we will go back and shoot the stuff that is remarkable? i also have the impression that people would be less inclined to steal her photographs and use it for themselves -- she and i talked about this -- and people would be more inclined to take their video clips off our television coverage and go out and try to market it. it is a more sacred medium in some respects, still photography. so there is a disconnect for me how there is more respect paid to carol's still photography then there would be for the video that hank price shoots over at winston-salem. people will ultimately have to pay for content. >> that think the david answered

that question perfectly. [laughter] >> thanks again for being here. my first question and i would like a follow-up is whether edward snowden has contacted your organization. secondly, how is it that you are talking to your reporter, your news executives about what i think is essentially the year of the whistleblower? how do you think about dealing with whistleblowers in an environment where government information can be shared so easily, corporate a -- corporate information can be shared so easily? how do you advise your managers and your reporters? >> snowden hasn't contacted us. >> we are trying to contact snowden. [laughter] thisld like to take opportunity through c-span2 and got -- through c-span to invite

mr. snowden to do an interview with abc news. >> the whistleblower point? >> the year the whistleblower. for as long as journalists have been practicing a particularly the kind of investigative work, it is always the year of the whistleblower. we depend, as news organizations, on whistleblowers of all different kinds. i think that there is a technical term for what a whistleblower is under statute. but we depend on people of conscience standing up and telling us what is really going on. sometimes anonymously. sometimes on the record. and i will even try this to debate patriotism and violations of different laws. newspapers in raleigh, north carolina, television stations in the great state of north carolina and journalist's all across the nation always count

on whistleblowers. so we got all her teens when it comes to whistleblowers to ask all the questions, check out bona fides, ascertain whether they have a particular interest in sharing this information, what is their agenda or motive. we go through all of the basics that you teach in journalism school to try to understand why this person wants to say this . as a young investigative producer, came to north carolina to do a story about the tobacco industry with one of the early whistleblowers who worked at r.j. reynolds and who wanted to talk about what was going on in what was then known as the mouse house, which was the lab that r.j. reynolds tobacco company where they were looking at the effect of tar and nicotine on mice. and he wanted to blow the whistle. when we got into it, we discovered that he had all kinds of conflicting agendas and interests that related to r.j. reynolds and r.j. reynolds came forward with all kinds of evidence that this person had a -- had mixed motives in coming forward.

all of us who practice ournalism no that -- journalism know that it is always the year of whistleblowing. daviden there is what discussed, our judgment come over whether we publish -- our judgment, over whether we publish and whether it is in the public interest or it is in the national interest. >> in the case of the local station, i would add that, where we may have less experienced people, it is him orton for management, news management and rup's to be involved in these kinds of stories. it is important for management, news management and to be involved in these kinds of stories. >> let me be the fourth to thank

you for being here. may great conversation. phd student year here at journalism school. as someone who is interested in sort of teaching the next generation of journalists, i was wondering if there is anything that you think we should be teaching our students that maybe we are not at this point, something to prepare them for the future? >> i admire what is going on here and that a lot of other institutions, the interdisciplinary approach. it is notable to me that, when we interview younger people, they have a very broad set of tolls and i think i continue encourage that to be the case. mediatersection between law and practicing journalism is very important. that is an initiative that needs to continue to blossom in a

significant way. i think nowadays people have to understand technology. they have to understand -- they have to have deep subject matter expertise. i would encourage this university and other universities to be sure that people are trained with depth, not just shallow knowledge that -- that is pejorative, i shouldn't say that -- limited knowledge of subject matter which sometimes whitewashed tv reporters. we need more subject matter expertise. i think there's room for a lot more of that. something simple to offer in response. which is a we can think about technology and its restrictions and we can think about subject matter expertise, but something that is one of the prerequisites and then is quickly gone after an introductory course is storytelling.

just the simple art of telling a great story. for all the students here and for all the professors and for all the practitioners, i think that we all know that, as long as a person entering this business knows how to tell a story and knows the structure of story depends on the story itself, that there are different ways to tell story, people will always have work. there will always be a need for storytellers. it doesn't matter how or what screen it is on. it doesn't matter what device. in may even be the chip implanted in our head. there will always be a need for storytelling and a desire for storytelling. there are books and studies about how we, just as a species, relate to and resonate with good stories. we want stories. it is a gift. it's an art.

and it's a craft. i look at some of the artists with storytelling and i read and i think i could never range the words in that way to tell that story that way. era ands also a craft that craft can be mastered by most. and that is the part -- and the art we can all reach for it, but for the craft can be taught. it is taught very well here and at other places. the craft of storytelling. >> i teach medical and science journalism, but i have a question not related to that. both for thank you your insight in sharing with us what you have today. mr. sherwood, you mentioned at -- beginning killers thisning keller's article

morning. he talked about the dark side as well, which is that freelancers are assuming a lot of the burden of international reporting as major news or in positions cut back end freelancers who are hurt me not have insurance, who are of ducted, as -- who are abducted, as in syria, may not have networks to help them. what is the responsibility of major news organizations in terms of utilizing freelancers rather than hiring people for full-time jobs with all the and the strength of the news or news nation behind them? all, let me acknowledge that one of your first students was our health editor at abc news who was a great contributor and great colleague. dan is a reflection of the qandil students that you put out into the world, abc news is

fortunate for what you do every single day. i read the piece and i know very well these very public aided issues about freelancing. on the one hand, these freelancers, the news organizations have depended on them for a very long time -- it is not a new thing -- we have depended on freelancers around the world for a very long time. they provide a vital role in helping us do the work all over the place to the farthest reaches of the globe to and there are also some major responsibilities that come with them. i would say that, when i saw the peas come i shouted to a number of our colleagues. there are all kinds of initiatives and movements of that are afoot to give more protections to our freelancers. we work with a cadre of freelancers and we work with them for a very long time. but i think that the responsibility is great. and we said this earlier today to some of my colleagues, the sleepless nights in our business

have to do when we have sent people into harm's way. ,nd there are people freelancers and full-time employees, around the world tonight who are in danger spots because we are try to fulfill our mission, our important public service mission. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> ima media law professor -- i am a media law professor. the 50th anniversary year of "new york times" versus 11 and yet libel cases against havenstitutional press been in decades. i was wondering if that was also your experience on the broadcast side, both nationally and on the local level. if that is so, why do you think that might be? >> you try that. >> go ahead. i defer to you on that one. in the subject of 300

plus subpoenas every year, pursuing your stories. we have a lot of legal help. a lot of these deals, these issues are settled in progress, a lot of these libel stories. think everyone takes a more cautious and measured approach to how we are trying to respond to such matters as they come up. i guess i am seeing a little bit less of this occurring. i don't know that if -- i don't an opinion ofve the top of my head. too,, to come i am -- me, i'm willing to think about it some more. but not off the top of my head. >> are you conceding -- when i is a poll like you and i talk to

a lot of people like you -- when you ask them about young people, what will they do to bring young people to broadcast journalism, they talk about mobile apps and streaming and getting to the phones. but what are you doing to bring young people to the actual broadcast? i don't see a lot of innovation, neither a the network level or the local level in just the format of the news goo. we are using the same format that we used 30 years ago. can you react to that? >> i think the morning format is done in a different way. the new things we try, the escalations we try occur on the weekends and in the morning news block. i think this is an evolving circumstance. any way thatde in next-generation people won't watch our news. >> would you concede they are not watching it now?

>> i think they are watching it in fewer will -- in fewer numbers. i think nielsen has a very hard time capturing viewership of younger demographics. smallw that the sample is . that the ratings samples are very unstable. i don't kid myself, but there are fewer people of younger generations watching our news products. but i don't concede that they don't watch it. we know that when there is big breaking news events, storms or shootings at the navy yard or the boston marathon bombing, those people tune in. i think people grow into the kind of news that we do. there is a bit of a generational factor and i observed that in a lot of different places. inhink that we have to write a different way. we have to shoot video in a different way. it is often about story selection. it is about taste of shows didn't -- it is about pace of

shows. part of it is hooking people in on mobile devices and other notion and fostering the of how powerful our brands are in the marketplace, how we can be trusted, and it may be that come instead of the tv station news casting, the first place -- and it may be, instead of the tv station newscast being the first place they go, it is the third place they go. thatnk it is a challenge the industry has. i don't concede in any way that we need to give up on the next generation viewership. >> not only do we not give up on it, but last week in miami, abc news in partnership with univision launched a brand-new multiservice platform called purposeith the express of appealing to a younger latinoe, specifically a

and hispanic lineal audience, but really a diverse multicultural audience of young people in this country. so the entire philosophy of this new fusion network is aimed at younger people with different filters for the programs, different lenses for the programs. it is aimed to bring them both socially, mobley, digitally and also to watch on a traditional cable television screen. the entire philosophy of this new multiservice platform is extremely exciting. and what we will do there -- we have deployed several dozen of our very best of abc news and they will come back from these deployments to fusion in miami where they are helping get this network launched. it is a very soft start. it is starting in a smaller number of homes. over the next five years, it will grow in the number of

subscribers to about 60 million in its fifth year. we will be doing a lot of experimenting and testing the question that you are asking, which is how do we get young people, younger people to engage in use information and lifestyle programming. and we will bring some of those ideas back abc news and try to infuse some of the abc news programming with some of those lessons. and an important -- leadershipimportant characteristic is to value diversity. it is about contrast. we are putting different people in different stations that reflect the community and reflected the demographic that they are serving. we have a better opportunity to attract your peer groups into viewership at the stations. that is the challenge that the industry has. >> thank you. >> we have been given the signal.

maybe one more. yes, sir, go ahead. >> i am a first year law student. i have an open-ended question. i'm wondering if you could talk user-generated content and how you are incorporating that into your overall platform, whether it is growing in importance for you and how you pick out the best user-generated content so you keep your credibility. >> it is important to us. it is growing. we spend a lot of time curating that content. but i think we had seen in all of these breaking new situations that there is great value in getting the video from the users and the people in the field and it adds dimension to the broadcast that we have. but it needs to be curated in a very careful way.

>> thank you. >> this has been a remarkable evening. audience had a chance to hear a candid exchange between one of the a3 in broadcast -- one of thes big three in broadcast television news. wade, congratulations to you. packer.lations to kathy relative codirectors for the center media law and policy. thank you david barrett. thank you ben sherwood for this animated discussion. i have to make a few closing remarks. i told david already i thought i signimply recite the

outlines of radio and television news broadcasters over the last 75 years and sit down. [laughter] , i in taking my own idea began this past week and to review what is really an astonishingly short history of broadcast news or whatever it might yield. the first truly national radio on air 75 views ago in 1938 when the legendary bob trout of cbs news created an anchorman's role in radio new york, bringing on the scene live reports in the aftermath of the ominous union between expanding nazi germany and a relatively helpless austria. at the other end of august routes live broadcast from new --k were too young legends were two young legends in training. edward armour road -- edward r

murrow. team were erice separate and gerald collingswood. the national appetite for their live news broadcasts grew steadily during the horrors of world war ii. nothing was really more memorable to many during the war then edward ria moreau's nightly report for cbs radio. the voice that got -- with a voice that god might have lead, he ended each broadcast with this, "this is london." he would then close his broadcast with a ocular parting phrase shared among londoners in

1940 wooden door the night of nazi bombardment -- "good night and good luck/" they sharedwar ii, their emerging infant technology to television. they had to turn to douglas edwards of oklahoma to host the first regular television news broadcast from 1948 to 1962. i found no characteristic closing line from edwards. but his replacement, someone who became the most trusted man in america according to a national poll, developed perhaps the most well-known signoff line during his many years at cbs news. walter cronkite was everyone's dutch uncle. the face and voice that announced the assassination of john f. kennedy, who told america of nasa's expanding

space program, chronicled the escalation of the war in vietnam, brought news of the assassinations in one year. or martin luther king and presidential candidate robert kennedy. through it all, walter cronkite ended each broadcast with the memorable son of phrase -- and that's the way it is. americans everywhere trusted that walter had indeed told them the way it is. cronkite was followed at cbs by dan rather who had been a 32- year-old reporter in dallas in 1963 when president kennedy had been shot. reported that he was an assistant of cronkite for many years and became the anchor in 1982. he turned to a more modest posing, saying only that is a part of our world tonight. london" to "that's

that is at is" to " part of our world tonight," from claims of omniscience to claims of implicit acknowledgment that television news was at best partial, limited, a part of the world tonight. a similar tone of honesty characterized tom brokaw. boyish south dakota 42-year- old ended each of his television broadcasts as nbc's anchor with a simple statement -- that's nightly news this wednesday night may 1 or whatever. long before brokaw, the nbc network interviewed one very important earlier element. nbc pioneered the

--ctice of a dual banker, dual anchor. they ended their broadcast with a personal exchange -- good night, david. good night, jeff. the closing could not help viewers nightly the wayy were expending it was. the broadcasters were themselves human. they inevitably work in a collaborative journey with others. his ironic tone, his individual takes on the news were another

important step in transformation of the genre. that national broadcasting toward the highly individualized style in many of today's cable and alternative new shows. in many of today's cable news shows. abc is a network of our guest and it arose relatively late in the network news party. it ran a third-place finish until the 1970s. sports focused on abc news. what came forth was a series of a ideas and inventions. in the broadcast race for real. moderatedings, he longer than any other broadcaster except for dan rather. , "ie sawyer closed with

will see you right back here tomorrow night." a god-likeless of certainty. is a broadcast news product and market share is crucial. getting the viewers right back here tomorrow night is a concern. closing remarks and broadcasting. -- tedner cost cnn news turner's cnn news began a profound change of 24 hours of coverage every day. cnn found themselves in a hotel in baghdad as america launched operation: hazard storm. -- desert storm. reported live

missile rounds of an air bombardment around him. broadcast news expanded overnight and edward armour oh offered live coverage of german -- 50gs and, 50-year years later, he reported incoming american missiles. two final observations i will leave with this audience. many of you are young journalism students here in capitol hill. you'rest is obvious, been drawn to a profession and a craft that relies -- as you have heard tonight -- on storing telling -- storytelling. yet, your profession must serve stories that are on printable and there are rapidly changing technologies in the modern era. no one, not even need

journalists onstage or in this foresee the format and delivery systems for narratives you want to share. idea that we the could link journalists in london, madrid, and new york at the same time was unthinkable. the seasoned war correspondents thought it was foolish to abandon radio for the dubious flickering black-and-white child that was black-and-white television. the 24 hour news coverage began. cbs, but not from abc, from a loudmouth, erstwhile playboy, ted turner.

he thought there was money to be made in audiences to be w on. whatever is over the horizon, it will take you and all of us i .ad -- ahead i agree that it will be an extraordinary adventure. my final observation is that it .6-charles collingwood, year-old, eric, it was edward edward, davidglas brinkley, who struck out to make radio and television history. the years ahead belong to you students. investment banking can seem to be an area in which family and

college connections can play a huge role. everyone of the broadcasting greats i mentioned were tied by connections to no one in the trade. they were from north dakota, south dakota, kansas, and montana. brinkley was from north carolina. they are great broadcast journalists. each of you who is a journalism student tonight is receiving and an inestimable gift. it will change over lifetime in ways that will confound all of your elders that are gathered here today. i have a feeling that there is theing, nothing under circumstances that would please dean king, ben sherwood, or david barrett