>> and one last point. the building leverage is critical. that's what we've got to be looking for all the time. the aid doesn't -- i agree. the aid doesn't make a big difference to these guys. but it does make a big difference to the people of south sudan and to the building of institutions in the long run. pulling that away now would really undermine the long-term stability of the place. our leverage i think should focus on individual culpability. the targeting sanctions, prosecution of people who are found to be committing or planning atrocities and patterns of atrocities. the additional leverage comes if we work much more closely and transpare transparently. collectively pressure the parties when there are key point moments that there needs to be a push. again, i just view a very high level white house to state house

in beijing engagement in south sudan to be a critical thing to do right now in order to show that united front internationally to the parties that we're really going to be pushing for peace, and those that undermine peace are going to have some kind of particular sanction. >> is it your assessment that china is willing to step up to the plate in that regard? >> not as publicly as us. but their interests are much deeper in terms of national security than ours are, and so let's figure out -- and i think that the good news is that our interests in terms of what the end game is line up very clearly with china. so let's take advantage of that moment. it doesn't happen off globally and figure out how we can more deeply work with them. >> thank you. >> thank you. one last question on that issue that mr. pendergast mentioned about looking for leverage and targeting sanctions of those human rights violations, since you've been intimately involved

until very krecently. do you view that as among others a good leverage point? >> i think it's going to be extremely important in another way. i think personally in the process over the next few years of writing a new constitution and laying a new foundation, that that creates the basis for eliminating from future power a lot of people who are responsible, so whether it's in the process of prosecution or some other kind of commission, a lot of people who are very guilty of the kind of terrible violations should not be part of a new government after 2015. and i think that is one of the outcomes that we should see. >> well, with the thanks of the committee for your invaluable

testimony, i expect that the african subcommittee as well as the full committee will lend continuing attention to the challenges in south sudan, and the leaders on all sides need to recognize that reality, not a singular hearing at a singular moment. the attention of that committee will be focused on them continuously. the record will be open until the close of business tomorrow, >> today on c-span, "washington journal." >> and at 10:00 a.m., newsmakers, represent hoyer. plus chris christie at 10:35

a.m. >> so to my young friends out there, life can be great but not when you can't see it. so open your eyes to life to see it in the vivid colors god gave us as a precious gift to his children, to enjoy life to the fullest and to make it count. say yes to your life and when it comes to drugs and alcohol, just say no. >> first lady nancy reagan, as our original series, "first returns fluence and" on c-span and c-span3, also on c-span radio and c-span.org. >> in a moment, your calls and today's newspaper headlines followed by republican and democratic strategist rich galen and maria cardona and talk about the 2014 and 2016 elections and the year ahead in congress. then we'll look at the legacy

of president lyndon b. johnson's war on poverty. we're joined by michael tanner of the cato institute and melissa botaik with the center of american progress. "washington journal" is next. . host: good morning. this marks the start of old be a busy week here in washington. congress is back tomorrow. at the supreme court, justices will hear a case on the president's right for recess appointment. one of the critics is mitch mcconnell. he is expected to be inside the court. otherssident meets with tomorrow. he traveled to raleigh, north carolina on wednesday. he will deliver his speech on the nsa eve strapping.