talks about the affordability of plants under the health-care law federal exchanges. then a discussion about a federal program aimed at providing heating assistance to low income households. mark wolf with the national energy assistance to -- association joins us. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] washingtonme to the journal this january 20, 2014. it is martin luther king, jr., day, and in washington, a wreath laying ceremony planned at the mlk memorial. live coverage on www.c-span.org at 8:00 a.m.. is secretaryttend of interior, d c and congresswoman eleanor holmes norton. vice president joe biden will be at the national action network annual teen day breakfast. civil rights leaders and cabinet members will join reverend al sharpton. coverage at 8:30 as well on www.c-span.org.

yesterday on the sunday shows lawmakers and suggested russia may have helped edward snowden get a hold of the intelligence documents and leave the country. we want to begin with those developments. democrats -- the li host: also, join the conversation on twitter or post a comment on facebook. and you can also e-mail us -- host: the headline in "the new .ork times" this morning leaders on the sunday shows saying edward snowden may have gotten help from the spy services while he at the national

security agency building -- excuse me, facility is the word i am looking for -- in hawaii before he leaked the document. i want to show you what my grog -- mike rogers had to say, republican who sits on the house intelligence committee. chairman of the committee. he was on "mid-the press -- "meet the press." was ast of all, if it privacy concern he had, he did not look for information on the privacy side for americans, he was feeling information with pat -- that had to do with how we operated overseas to collect information to keep americans safe. that begs a question. and some of the things he did were beyond his technical capabilities. it raises more questions. how we arrange travel before he left. how he was ready to go. he had a go bag, if you will. >> how high level, do you think? >> let me say this. i believe there is a reason he ended up in the loving arms of a

fsb agent and mosque up it i don't think it is a coincidence. >> you think the russians helped edward snowden? what's i think there are questions to be answered. i do not think it was a geewhiz lucky event he ended up in moscow under the handling of the fsb. \ >> a significant development. >> we have questions that have to be answered that as someone who does investigation some of the things we are finding we would call clues that would certainly indicate to me that he had some help and he still think that had nothing to do with privacy. host: mike rogers on the sunday show yesterday "meet the press" suggesting that russia had helped edward snowden with linking -- leaking the documents and travel to russia. "the new york times" pi ece this morning --

host: we want to get your take on it this morning. alan in new orleans. independent color. what do you think? waser: i think mr. snowden someone who was basically a land -- lance, and anytime there was information to be ciphered out of their and put in other folks hands, he readily grant -- granted and left. i think that is disturbing -- i served in the military and

worked in intelligence -- i have not seen or heard of anything that somebody could be so careless as far as an operation where anybody could walk out of there with that type of information, and especially the amount that he had stolen. to it has been hard understand why everybody is so hard on the process trying to get this thing corrected. something we don't do different, we will have to walk around here with gas mask for the rest of our lives because we have people out here who really want to hurt us as americans. and i wish the media people who are ready to do things and say things in order for readings, taken to consideration that you are putting us in harms way when you go out and start putting off out there that is last of five and should stay classified. host: do you believe what these lawmakers are saying, that he had help? to have help. i agree that how could he all of a sudden the wind up in russia,

and they say the sky is in the airport but they are not going to let him's a there are and how do we know he was thinking in the airport? obvious that he had to have somebody behind him in order to get out of the country with that type of material. and how did he get them all to them, these thousands of pages? it seems a little odd to go on an airplane and go through customs or whatever and have all of those documents and nobody sees it. his whole travel arrangements already have been made. host: by the way, you met -- mention the amount of documents. "the new york times" reports mike rogers, house intelligence chairman, but did add 1.7 million intelligence files that concern vital operations of the united states army, navy, marine corps, and air force. caller: as a military person who work in an intelligence field, there is absolutely no way one individual could go to all brands of the service and the

only thing left out was a coast guard. if he has coast guard operational plan just in case they freeze the waters. i just hope as a country we get together and try and look at what would be in the best interest of us. he is a traitor, period. host: glenn greenwald who broke some of the news related to hasrd snowden's documents been in contact with edward snowden. he works for "the guardian." he tweeted this out. host: in reaction to the lawmakers on the sunday shows saying that edward snowden, suggesting that edward snowden got help from the russian spy services. by the way, you heard rogers

referred to the spy services as the federal security service, fss, russian state security organization that succeeded the kgb. then glenn greenwald also tweeted this out. of panic and desperation from official washington is suffocating. and he quotes the piece saying they lawmakers offered no pacific evidence. they and feinstein, the chairwoman of the senate intelligence committee was on "meet the press" with mike rogers and she was also asked about the connection. [video clip] >> he may well have. we don't know at this stage. what i think to glorify this act is really to set sort of a new level of dishonor. to where this metadata goes. because the nsa are professionals. they are limited in number, to 2

2, who have access to the data. two of them are supervisors. are are vetted, they carefully supervise. the data goes anywhere else -- how do you provide that level? >> is a critical than to get to the bottom and will be investigating might have been involved and whether there was any link to the russians? >> absolutely. absolutely. the chair leaders of the senate and house intelligence committees on nbc's "meet the press" yesterday saying they are investigating a possible connection between edward snowden and russia. those one point 7 million intelligence files and to help him leave hawaii when he was working for the national security agency through a contractor. jonathan turley, the legal scholar here in washington who has represented many whistleblowers tweeted this out

-- host: bob from minnesota. democratic caller. what do you think? i think he did have help from the russians. and i think he's -- he should be prosecuted if ever we get access to him. it was treasonous what he did. and i also think the media should be a lot more careful when they are talking about situations like this. novak mentioned a story that he never should have -- that outed valerie country att put the risk for political reasons.

i think the media needs to be a lot more responsible, too. in mississippi. democratic caller. caller: how are you doing? host: good morning. caller: you know, honestly -- you know, i think he is a traitor. to asku know, you have how did he know about the documents question mark -- documents? i am watching the show right now. host: you've got to turn on your tv. let's go to jamie in michigan. democratic caller. caller: thanks for c-span, first of all. i think that the media should be more careful. there's been information out there already that has caused our country a lot of trouble. people jumping to conclusions.

why can't this be postponed until we are sure? bush,e i know president he caused a lot of trouble when he was talking about acts of evil. i think we should wait to see if it is true or not and go from there. host: but who should be more careful about making this type of accusation, these lawmakers? newspapers,media, our representatives. i am a constituent of mike rogers. and i think he should wait and try to be quiet. he's got a responsible job now and he shouldn't be on "meet the press" or anywhere else. he should keep it quiet until they are sure. host: democrat from clarkston, michigan, she says she is a constituent of mike rogers,

republican of that state. bill from west virginia. democratic caller. what do you think? you are on the air. go ahead. caller: i would like to comment on what i saw last week on c-span. of about fivenel people. michael hayden was one of them. when the man next to him began to offer suggestions regarding the power that the nsa has, michael hayden turned his chair perpendicular to this man. the is a former head of nsa, intimidating someone who does not agree with nsa apology. -- policy. on international tv. i am amazed he had that kind of nerve. that is about all i have to say. host: a viewer says this about what the lawmakers said on the sunday shows --

they will try anything to get the blame off of them. look at recent polls. here is one from "the washington post." say edwardans snowden's leak harmed national security. a poll from november. "the huffington post" had this americans still can't decide whether edward snowden is a traitor or a hero. you toturning to all of get reaction to what intelligence leaders had to say on the sunday shows yesterday, saying that they believed there might be a connection between russia and edward snowden, that he may have gotten help from its secret services. "his is "the washington post this morning with their piece. they say this --

host: william, huntsville, alabama. independent caller. caller: i am from huntsville, alabama, center of intelligence and stuff. host: what do you mean the center of intelligence? very strongcia is here. they planted somebody in my office. he is a cia agent. i was just personally going on in my normal life -- i notice how they persecute christians. a sent somebody into our office 1978, 1976 to-

spy on us because we were doing well and they eventually sunk a business. carry from new jersey. democratic caller. my first point in evaluating edward snowden would life. has given up his he can never see his mother and father again because he could never come on u.s. soil again. his gainful up employment. from what i gathered, he made quite a lucrative salary doing this job in hawaii. so, his reasoning, just to be able to inform us as u.s. citizens that our privacy is no longer private. exactly what nsa is doing. us,preciate him giving figuratively speaking, heads up. nsa does in fact need to be

reformed. i can appreciate the fact that the basis of nsa thomas from national security, is to monitor anything terroristic. delveen you divulge or into millions of americans e-mail, text messages, phone calls, we are all not terrorists. thus, our question, why? so when edward snowden said in his first message that was delivered to the united states citizens, he said, when a gathers your information, it is for marketing purposes. but when the government gathers your information and puts together a profile, that is dangerous. but is not him verbatim that is what he said in so many

words. so, i question that. i ponder what he is saying. legitimacy ofhe what the nsa is currently doing. says "the new york times" this about whether or not russia and china have this information. intelligence officials say they have no doubt that russian or chinese intelligence -- host: by the way, you heard from president obama on friday talking about what reforms he would like to the national security agency surveillance program. at the justice

department, he talked about scaling back how they go about getting that information. to also called on congress weigh in on about who stores it. the president was profiled in "the new yorker's" edition coming up. you can see the piece online. yorker"ords where "new writer who also wrote a book about the president, traveled with the president, had one-on-one interviews with him for this profile piece. the president did talk about nsa. and he said this -- the

"the newyou go to yorker" website, there it is on your screen, you can read the profile piece. the president was also asking about whether or not there should be clemency for edward snowden. he talked about that a little bit and he said it is not a yes or no answer. again, if you are interested, go website, 18er" pages on the website, it will, january 27. he talks about a lot of different things in that piece. -- inr news this morning other news this money, from page of "the star-ledger," --

host: met with the u.s. attorney's office yesterday baird and we are expected to hear from the lieutenant about that.ay "washington post" french paid -- from page this morning, chris christie, and rarely add that he had when he ran for office in 1990 four. the claims he made in the ad apparently -- the headline, ad to tougher jersey." below the fold in "the washington post," continuing on for 2016, about hillary clinton, she is writing her memoir. a battle to define clinton. state department legacy heats up. the book him a to be published by the summer, has a chance to showcase her leadership role in

several events across the world whence she served as secretary of state. christiealso in other news this morning, a piece in "usa today." democrats in new jersey planning more on the role he played in distribution of sandy really fun. "the new york times" this divorce-- msnbc, messy lays out in full public view. host: but now, the governor has said this about msnbc --

a partisan network almost gleeful in the attack of him. a feeding frenzy. they report that the coverage of msnbc is nearly twice as much as cnn and fox news as well. that about the chris christie story continuing. back to your phone calls. getting your take this morning about what lawmakers had to say on the sunday talk shows, intelligence lawmakers, saying that they think or the accused -- clues suggest that russia may have helped edward snowden. phoenix, arizona. harry, thanks for waiting on the line. go-ahead. caller: there has been a lot of discussion on the internet discussion about the only practical way snowden will come back here is to give him immunity and bring him back

to testify. one obvious interpretation of what congressman rogers is up to thatis trying to deflect -- as a russian spy. interpretation is they are trying to deflect attention from how their security was. if he had outside help, it looked better. possible conclusions from what is visible. from what congressman rogers has not admitting to any facts, either. those are just conclusions he is drawn. so there it is. host: what do you make of him saying those conclusions out loud? caller: i assume he's got an agenda. a couple of possible agendas are the ones i just mentioned. want to donl go from greenville, ohio. independent caller.

caller: about mr. snowden, i really think that he isn't any worse than george washington and -- president all to think about getting him amnesty and coming back to the country and really finding out what is going on. because, you know, our government is full of insider lying, gun runners, taxi meters. evaders. i think they will try to make them look bad no matter what. that is my opinion. from ohio.el republican caller. caller: two things to say. first, about the nsa. people on thef call-in saying they can listen to me all they want because i'm not doing nothing. what about the nsa?

coveringhey so anything up if they have not done anything wrong. the other thing i am about to say, building number seven, the so manynter, there are people calling in about this. why don't you have a discussion it be drawn toet an end. host: all right, got your point. james. akron, ohio pretty democratic caller. --ler: wow, there's so much i just listened to the guy talking about the insider trading, that's a problem. i think the republican party has there is aery time republican regime in they try to privatize everything, and the more you privatize everything the more you have these problems. the united states. anytime there is a whistleblower it comes from the united states.

other countries don't tolerate that. so, if you want to call a whistleblower a traitor. once you commit, you go to the military, you have an old. just like a doctor. , just like an oath doctor. if you violate the oath, you can be propagator -- prosecuted. i don't know this guy access to them, but he spent his time to do everything you could to access things to hurt the united states. thes just as bad as congressmen not allowing us to have a jobs bill in this country. they should all be prosecuted. host: do you believe the lawmaker that edward snowden had help from russia question the if he haddon't know to have help from russia because we are so privatizing the country that you would be surprised who is running these private organizations that are getting our information anyway. we have stuff from russia and everything else.

just kind of solidified what they already thought. i don't think he could give up much. these people calling so upset about their privacy -- you know, if you really take a look at it, your next-door neighbor and the people of the street know as as these other private organizations. there are no secrets. people talk about the guy down the street is losing himself, talking about the guy next door whose taxes are behind, the guy four blocks down who they cut their water bill off, gas off, electric off. they know. we don't have all of this privacy. have not had it for many years. as long as the government continues, and the republican party are the ones -- they want everything to be privatized and when something happens they are the first open arms.

this -- iewer tweets we heard from congressman -- congressman mike rogers on "meet the press" saying they had clues to suggest there is a tie between the russian secret services and edward snowden. also, the lawmakers on the sunday shows talked about security in russia during the olympic games. just days away. front page of "usa today" -- host: and "the wall street journal" has a follow-up story on their website this morning saying that the u.s. is going to send relatively few security -- to sochi, ais smaller footprint, despite warnings of a possible terrorist attacks. the united states not sending as many security officials.

the mackall, chairman of house homeland security committee, republican of texas said on abc with george stephanopoulos that he plans to travel to sochi today to confer with security officials, in part to study plans for evacuations in the event of an attack. eric in middletown, new york. independent caller. caller: i got to acknowledge harry in arizona. he pretty much nailed it. intelligence officials, they appear -- as well as just a regular elected officials, representatives -- they have to say something. their own agenda is always going to be part of it regardless of what the truth is. the fact that americans are willing to believe what is told to them now when they -- watergate era, the stuff j edgar hoover did, and on and on.

the lies about vietnam. they have to change the narrative. they want to try to shape it to do exactly what harry said, to deflect away from themselves. because there's a whole bunch of less than flattering discussion for them. host: all right, eric. we will keep taking your calls and getting your take on intelligence lawmakers on the sunday shows are saying there could be connection between russia and edward snowden, that russia may have helped him steal those documents and go to russia. but in washington today, many events to mark martin luther king, jr., day. at the memorial here on the national mall, there will be a wreathlaying ceremony at 8:00 a.m. eastern time. we are covering it here on c-span. if you go to www.c-span.org you can watch it there. "the washington times" says the national park service says 3.2 million people visited the monument last year, the 50th

anniversary of the march on washington. the figure was down about 14% from 2012 when 3.7 million people saw the memorial in the first full year it was open. they're on the national mall, a live shot this morning from the mlk memorial. margaret from rockford, illinois. independent caller. go ahead. what are your thoughts this intelligenceat leaders up on capitol hill had to say yesterday about a possible connection between russia and edward snowden? i'll echo my gut reaction is that -- caller: my gut reaction is that, i am not sure i believe it. it does not sound like. the only perspective -- conclusion i have come to on the american that media is failing the american people. they are doing such a poor job that edward snowden had to do it for them. host: what do you mean? media, theyamerican

don't report the truth about anything really. .hey give us a slanted view they don't ever get to the bottom of what is really going on. and the american people are kept in the dark about most real issues today. that is how i feel. and i just feel snowden ended up doing the job the media should have done. as far as the surveillance, i am a law-abiding citizen. there is no reason to survey me. -- surveil they know who the troublemakers are. i don't know why they think they need to surveil all the american people. and why is this all coming up now? the damage is already done. host: sandy from south dakota. democratic caller. believe that snowden is a traitor.

if he was only concerned about the nsa, why did he take all of the military secrets with him? if people don't think that other otheries are in -- countries are in here trying to get our secrets, they are not thinking right. host: edward from mississippi. democratic caller. what is your opinion? caller: i would like to know when will our politicians and the news media -- every conversation that they say always starts with the word, i think. when i we going to get some "i knows"? thank you. host: "orange county register" in arizona, the headline that iran eerily awaits relief. this is monday's paper. one day before a nuclear deal between iran and world powers take effect, iranian officials

signaled sunday they are serious about keeping their end of the bargain. tweetingiated press this out this morning, the first day of the deal. says it has of iran started implementing a nuclear deal. that is the associated press tweeting that out. front page here -- the u.n. invited iran to serious talks that raised objections from the united states is saying iran has not agreed to the one stipulation for an invitation, and that is that president bashar al-assad must leave office. that mr. obama did with "the new yorker" he also talked about iran and that as well, saying this.

the nuclear negotiations in side, were from obama's based on a series of strategic calculations that he acknowledges may not work out. weapon wouldclear be a violation of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty and a threat to the entire region. armsuld spark a nuclear race reaching saudi arabia, egypt, and turkey. but the white house is prepared to accept civilian nuclear capacity in iran with strict oversight while the israelis and the gulf states regard any iranian nuclear technology at all as unacceptable. yahoo! andold nan republican senators that the absolutist benchmark is not achievable. members of obama's team believe the leaders of egypt, israel, jordan, and the gulf states who are now allied as never before what the u.s. to be there proxy for struggle not merely deed nuclearization of iran but regime change, and that is not

on the administration's agenda except perhaps as a hope did that is from the profile in "the new yorker." 17,000 word profile piece that will run in "the new yorker" janeway 27th. sheila, independent caller. of the you make on -- possible connection between russia and snowden? caller: good morning. i have to say i will not believe either one of the senators unfortunately. i have to say the lady from illinois hit it right on the head. geton't get news, we just opinions and entertainment. cheap ones at that. have been saying the same thing for a number of this issue,garding when president bush was in office and now president obama. song has not changed.

as far as i'm concerned with the is a whistleblower. he is trying to inform us. how would take the information and what we do with it, it is up to us, the people. note, in alighter reliable source inside the style section of "the washington post" they talk about michelle obama's 50th birthday bash it was ended. bill and hillary clinton, opera king, magic johnson and others. quote from laura bush in an interview she did here on c-span. "maybe we should be that way about the first gentleman" really critique about the way they look at all times. referring to the scrutiny so often heaped on the first espouses who have all been women.

part of the first lady's series, laura bush will appear february 3. tonight first latest -- and first lady's features barbara bush, 9:00 p.m. eastern time here on c-span. on februaryra bush 3. and between them will be hillary clinton. nick from baltimore, maryland. democratic caller. caller: good morning. i want to comment on the snowden situation. it is pretty obvious now to mow -- and now,closure with the disclosure that he accessed military operations, secrets from all four branches of the military, that plus the sheer quantity of information he was able to access, it is obvious to me that not only he is a traitor but it is also obvious that he had to had help both inside and outside.

from canton, illinois. independent caller. caller: good morning, c-span. one thing i would like to know is, recently the president was given three pinocchios for 3 millione u.s. -- people who got on -- gosh darn it --it was only 380,000 that got on medicare. but anyway, what i would like to say is, i would like to see some of our allies call in and see buyingey think about us on them, and why are we spying on our allies? i think that is disgusting. and that is my comment. host: all right, bill, canton, illinois. thetoday reporting that army is planning to cut 100,000 soldiers. the army would be/i nearly 100 by 2019 under budget

plans are set to be unveiled next month. a number far below army leaders said they would meet to ensure they can fight another major war. it is downsizing because of fiscal pressure of the winding down of wars and the iraq and afghanistan. the army now has 528,000 soldiers and was scheduled to by 2019.90,000 troops begins on, debate surveillance challenges. they have a graphic, if you're interested. forward andoing what roles lawmakers will play and all the different aspects that go into this nsa surveillance program. here, ther topic intelligence leaders on the sunday talk shows said there is a possible connection, there are clues out there that suggests russia helped edward snowden.

fort pierce, florida. democratic caller. what do you think? caller: my comment on the nsa is that i snowden don't mind about the listening to my conversation to keep us safe, because i am not a terrorist trying to plot to kill my neighbors. withlly don't understand the american people -- that the nsa is unnecessary. , they are terrorists constantly upgrading their information and technology and if we do not use it all we will just be let the foreign companies over there, blowing up a bus here, an airplane there. i will not even fly on a plane anymore. that guy has roland us. snowden has really -- that i has roland us. my mom always told me, if you got something to say, don't say it on the phone. -- that i has ruined us.

host: mike rogers also saying that terrorist groups have changed the way they communicate because of the information put out by edward snowden. providence, rhode island. independent caller. our last. caller: i think it is entirely possible that snowden and had help, but i don't think he knew that it ha -- that he did have help, if he did. and i also think if they are going to make accusations like that they need to provide evidence. host: one other quick headline for you, in "the washington times" this morning, they continue the coverage of what happened benghazi, libya, september 11, 2012. that on the front page of "the washington times" this morning. when we come back, we will talk about the 2014 agenda for

governors and state legislatures and then we will talk with the jane o'donnell, consumer reporter with "usa today" to talk about the cost of health care as we continue this january 20, 2014. martin luther king, jr., day here in washington. a memorial service starting in 15 minutes at the mlk memorial in washington. tune into www.c-span.org if you want to watch at -- that. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> because i know truthfully that every single problem in america would be better if more people could read, write, and comprehend. i just know that.

we would be able to compete with the rest of the world. we wouldn't have these children who are committing crimes because their families don't have jobs. they don't have jobs because they can't read. they can't write. they don't understand. and i think every thinking american is coming to that conclusion. we have got to educate our children. and we've got to educate their parents. come it isust a whim a necessity if we are going to compete in this world. bushrst lady barbara tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern live on c-span and c-span3 and also c-span radio land www.c-span.org. think without question the communications act at this point is not keeping pace with where the marketplaces. as a general principle, what i tried to advocate for my own purchase the fcc is the fcc to

do what he can to calibrate regulations to fit the times that of a statute requires us to do the contrary we are essentially stopped. i think we have reached the point, given the intermodal competition we see, that the fcc needs to be able to take actions to bring its regulations into the 21st-century, to reduce the silos, for example, that require ando to telephone companies cable companies and wireless companies differently even though they are competing to provide the same service. i think an update would be very useful and i have worked closely with my colleagues in congress for the success. >> republican fcc commissioner pai tonight on "the communicators." " continues.journal host: back with a reid wilson, senior political policy blogger for washington post gov beat talking about the 2014 agenda for governors and state

legislatures. i want to begin with the national governors association, the head of the, mary fallin, republican governor for oklahoma. out in washington last week talking to the media, but also had a meeting with president obama. i want to show our viewers what she had to say about how governors are viewing washington at this point. [video clip] >> as governors, we have to make government work. we do not have the luxury of in action. we have to lead our states while also balancing our budget. we are now midway through the 113th congress and governors are frustrated. despite the recent budget agreement, partisan gridlock continues to prevent long-term policy solutions. now, we are doing our part as governors to create jobs and address the challenges facing our state and this country, but we also believe that now it is time for the federal partners to

do their part and to take action. host: reid wilson? guest: that sense of frustration is something i hear from governors all over. i was out in california last week and i heard it from governor jerry brown. i was in north carolina earlier this year and i heard it from governor pat mccoury. one democrat, wrote one republican. so many states, 49 states, have balanced budget requirements. they must balance the budget and the 50th state does balance its budget of the year. are forced into action, because him and him. things are happening outside of washington. they are happening outside the beltway. while there is an action on capitol hill, the laboratories of democracy are going on in experiment. >> the governors really expect washington to be creating jobs? >> i think one of the things we learned from this recession is neither the president nor a

governor really has a that much impact on a globalized economy, on an economy that depends more on whether or not the banking system in greece is going to be coherent or if a global market is going to collapse or survive. the actions of one specific governor in the state, even the state of california with 35 million people, they don't really have that much impact. the president doesn't, either. i think that is one of the things we have learned. there is this notion that governors create jobs, and democrats and republicans will argue about who is creating more jobs as we go into this election cycle. but i think the difference we have seen over the last couple of years is that one side -- democrats are creating jobs that pay better, republicans are creating more jobs. this is something we have seen over and over. i should say in states led by democrats and states led by

republicans. host: how are they doing that? guest: the unemployment rate has come down more and republican-led eight, the number of jobs created has been higher in republican led states but median incomes have on a much more and democrat led eight, so it tells a little bit about who is creating the better jobs, the jobs paying more than just minimum wage. it differs adoing lot by states. in some states, it has to do with offering incentives to the companies tuesday. boeing, for example, was just offered the largest corporate tax rate in history to keep the triple seven airliner in the state of washington. that will mean 40,000-50,000 jobs and about $20 billion annually economic activity the next 20 or 30 years. beyond that, republicans are offering tax breaks to companies to come to their states. democrats offering incentives like creating more educational opportunities, they would say,

to create jobs for the future. the approach to how they create jobs is a lot different and it differs by state, even among the two parties. and the results are different as well. host: there are themes going on. as the state legislatures come back into office, i think we have seen pretty obvious themes. on the one hand, democrats are going to want to increase the minimum wage. we have seen this in state after state. president obama as well has called for raising the minimum --e to $10 and $.10 an hour $10.10 an hour. and raising taxes -- over the last year and this form as well, aiming to cut specifically the income tax and corporate income taxes across the country. host: are they succeeding? guest: they certainly are. the reason these two sides are succeeding other goals is because the vast majority of states are controlled by one

party. if you take a look at the legislatures, only a handful, only about five states have divided legislatures. have republicans controlling one chamber and democrats controlling the other. washington, iowa, kentucky, new hampshire, virginia now with terry mcauliffe as governor. really allows the two sides to push their agenda. we hear all the time that if we follow a democratic agenda or republican agenda that everything would be going perfectly. here we have the opportunity to do so, to sort of test those theories because the two sides control so many states. there really are very few divided state. host: talking about what happened in your state, the agenda for your governor and state legislatures with a reid wilson, senior policy blogger of washington post gov beat and if you go to "the washington post" you can see all the stories that reid wilson and others have been writing about what is happening across the 50 states. let's talk about the dem

governors and democratic state legislatures. have they made progress on minimum wage? you hear that from the democrats hearing in washington. guest: they have, and a number of states. washington have raised it, california has raised the minimum wage. a number of state legislatures and state parties this year trying to advance minimum wage issues because they see it as a good way to drive a wedge between republicans and the sort of the working class. democrats want to make the point that they are the party of the 99%, if you will, and republicans are the party of big business. you want -- you're going to see it in new mexico where you have or republican governor and democratic legislature. the legislature will push or a constitutional amendment to time minimum wage to inflation in the future and increase it now. you will see ballot initiatives to raise the minimum wage in arkansas and south dakota, to places where republicans are in control and democrats are in

deep minorities but they think this is the way they could come back and actually improve their chances at the ballot box. states, number of other either initiatives to the people or through the legislature to try to increase the minimum wage. there has been some success in state legislatures controlled by democrats where the governor is a democrat, and the democratic party thinks that increasing the minimum wage is good for them politically, too. is from berkeley, california great democratic caller. early morning to you. go ahead. caller: my governor is governor brown. i think governor brown is doing a wonderful job. i would like to see people back him in reference to the high-speed rail. guest: that is one of the really interesting budget challenges that governors face. and actually they are in this very bizarre positions right -- position right now.

governors have a lot of money to spend. the economy is coming back. tax revenues are way up. almost every state has a budget surplus to deal with. one of the things jerry brown wants to do is create a high-speed rail system between san francisco and los angeles. that is going to cost a lot of money, billions of dollars over a very long period of time. jerry brown is thinking big. he is thinking legacy projects right now. canal system and tunnels he is trying to build to improve the state water conditions, which is in real dire circumstances. this rail project will be under construction long after he has left the governor's mansion. that is a big issue i think we will see over the next 10 or 20 years. not this governor of california -- but the next 1, 2o. they have a lot of money to play with right now. host: why did they have a lot of money to play with? guest: tax revenues are up now that the recession is coming

back. almost every state has a budget surplus they're having to deal with. in a lot of cases, they are trying to deal with it in certain ways. -- one tonors 12 restore some of the cuts they had to make during the recession and others want to save it. there is this mythology of jerry brown i am fascinated by. everybody thinks he is the the liberal bogeyman governor -- remember governor moonbeam when he ran for president in 1992 -- the -- but the budget he released is a very conservative budget. it saves about one point $6 billion, which is not that much money in the grand scheme of california's budget, but he saves about $1.6 billion for a rainy day fund instead of pouring a money back into education or high-speed rail or anything like that. it is more of a conservative budget i think people -- has not lowered taxes on millionaires. guest: no lowering of taxes and the raising of cap is.

taxes.ing of resisting calls to raise taxes or spend money on something that has been cut during the recession. host: massachusetts, independent caller. going back toer: one issue that was a big flare up last year and the taxing of internet sales. it hurt states that have sales taxes, of course. not only sales taxes, but it hurts a lot of small businessmen and communities because as the small stores go out of business the real estate taxes loss. i thought they were going to, with a level playing field for some kind of standardized internet tax, and they were going to work with congress. is it falling apart? of statedre are a lot that has to very sales taxes on internet sales. notfederal government has done so, congress has not done so, even though the national conference of state legislatures has come out here and lobby -- actually their offices are in

this old and where sitting in right now. it may have come out here and lobby congress. the publicans, democrats, both sides of aisle have come here to lobby congress to pass the sales tax -- republicans, democrats, both sides. amazon has even come out in support of it. now we have seen a number of states passed that kind of legislation. just has not moved through the federal government yet. host: let's talk about the affordable health care law. how are governors are reacting to that, and state legislatures? guest: the vast majority of democratic led states have expanded medicaid, have run their own exchanges, have fully embraced the law. even a lot of states where democrats own governorship but -- have been able to do things by executive fiat, in kentucky, for example, where republicans control one chamber of the state legislature but the democratic governor was able to fully embrace the exchange and medicaid expansion.

what we are going to see this year is republican governors trying to expand medicaid. it is not going to be easy. they are to take a lot of heat for it. and a lot of governors have taken heat for it. governor jan brewer, republican of arizona, rick snyder of michigan, have pushed a medicaid expansion that is not quite made it. do governor of iowa tried to a public-private partnership that is a clever way to advance this. so, what we are going to see now is a lot of republican governors trying to expand medicaid and take advantage of the billions of dollars at the federal level and they could get, republican state legislatures either pushing back or having a given -- different take on things. trying to do it in a different way. and arkansas you have the democratic governor who has been pushing for a medicaid expansion for a long time. what the state legislature is trying to do instead -- or the proposal with some republican

support is to create a system by which the medicaid money pays for private insurance instead of expanding medicaid. this would be =-- a way to give them an out in the future. other states are looking at the arkansas model. a special election in jonesboro. a republican won back the seat. what we will see this year on the affordable care act is republicans trying to take advantage of the billions of dollars that has been set aside before that money goes to other states. host: we are talking with reid wilson, the senior policy "the washington

post." give us a call. democrats, 202-585-3880. republicans, 202-585-3881. independents, 202-585-3882. what about social policy? we saw from previous agendas, gun control in colorado. marijuana put on the ballot. guest: we haven't gotten controversial enough with the affordable care act. social policy has played a big role in the wake of the 2010 elections. whatf the overlooked -- went overlooked is that republicans won more than 600 seats in state legislatures across the country.

they took total control of places where they had not been in control for a long time. abortion,icy, election rights, voting rights. this time around, we have seen a divide. john edwards was saying there is not a red or blue american. president obama said that in the 2014 convention speech. there really are two americas. gays are allowed to get married and abortion laws are open to all. illegal and is abortion rights are being rolled back. focus on social issues in state legislatures trying to make that point.

the gay marriage issue is off the table for the moment. every democratic legislature onept oregon has moved same-sex marriage. side, you havean seen a ban on abortion after 20 weeks. it has gone through the courts. it was just struck down in arizona. you will probably see them try to reinstate some version again. that has passed in 11 states. abortion, gay rights remained the focus of a number of efforts. marijuana is going to be a small issue this year. passed aer has legalization of marijuana.

everything else has gone through the ballot boxes. the new hampshire statehouse. the senate is not going to take that till up. legalization will have to go through ballot issues rather than to the state legislatures. no state senator wants to vote for legalization of marijuana. .ost: puaul is next good morning. you are on with reid wilson of "the washington post." caller: you asked a question about how you create jobs. i never heard anybody talk about it. theink it is caused by government reducing the interest rate on government securities, and forcing people who live off the interest to buy more stocks. to createuse people

more jobs. host: ok. we will take that comment. guest: there is an interesting debate about this. corporationsarge -- there are always going to be jobs at the local starbucks or mcdonald's. it is not like you can do your job by moving to virginia. tople are not going to move virginia because there are lower waged jobs there. when people talk about creating jobs, they talk about these megacorporations like boeing or ibm or intel. they said they would move a big egon to arizona from or

. boeing just got a tax relief, tax credit from the state of washington from now until 2040. that $8.7 billion is a drop in the bucket of the corporate profits that boeing is going to reap in the next 25 years. boeing is not making a big decision on where to locate % ofr jobs based on 1% or 2 their bottom line. they are basing their decision on more than just tax credits. the government does something small to create jobs but not that much. every governor running for reelection will talk about how many jobs were created since they were elected in 2010, which is a little bit misleading.

host: zach in wyoming, democratic caller. morning. wondering, has the government given up on unemployment? people are depending on that money. guest: that is more of a federal issue. there was a big debate last week. it was blocked in the senate. cost of thehe extended unemployment benefits. i think we might see it come back. democrats are talking about paying for extended unemployment insurance. they think this is an election year issue. i am not sure is going to pass. the house does not seem interested in taking that up.

host: the debate is letting federal long-term unemployment insurance expire. people are still allowed to get unemployment insurance on the state level. guest: the federal issue is for people who have been unemployed over the long term. the money for short-term unemployment comes from state budgets through federal grants. the amounts of money the government is spending on states has gone up dramatically over the last 20 or 30 years. states are spending less of their own money. they are still spending more because they are getting money from the federal government. feds,ney comes from the goes to the states. they give out unemployment benefits.

most states continued to do so. host: francisco in arlington, virginia. caller: good morning. one promising idea is the development of social enterprises at the state level. instead of giving people an employment checks -- it can be a chain of clinics. it can the franchised. all of the tax benefits are already in place. why we don't talk about social enterprises? guest: good question. different governors are talking about different things. dc councilton members have a fund from which they can give money to local groups. sometimes as in the case of harry thomas junior, the money

goes into their own pockets or the pockets of their friends. giving grants to small organization does not exist in every state. host: we are talking about your governors and legislatures. call us up. phone numbers on your screen. reid wilson is with us from "the washington post." we have this tweet. guest: there are that many minimum wage jobs in the u.s. we talk about the minimum wage increasing. most people make more than the minimum wage. it will cause prices to go up for a lot of people -- it will cause wages to go out, i should

say.l i specific example where we thought we could test this. a mcdonald's in eastern washington state and a mcdonald's about six miles away in idaho. in washington state, the minimum wage is about nine dollars and $.10. in idaho, the minimum wages $7.25. there is no difference in the price of a value meal or anything like that between the stores. that is one tiny example. there have been plenty of samples. a study about fast food workers and the relative absence of price changes. run increasing the minimum wage does not affect that many people. host: you can find several

stories about what is happening in your states. here is one headline. more thanto research, 6 million households have households worth more than $1 million. all three states more than seven percent have households worth of figures.f seven guest: the exceptions are hawaii and alaska. host: what does it mean for public housing? guest: we love maps and trying to explain who we are as a country through maps. has an application on who pays taxes. i will use the state of

california as an example. they have a huge budget surplus right now. they passed an initiative, proposition 30, that would tax capital gains. when the stock market does well, their tax revenue shoots up. when the stock market doesn't do as well, the tax revenue shrinks. money,have that kind of you are putting it in the stock market and that is how you grow the money. it changes on whom the tax burden is based. if you have a state that is poorer, you are probably relying on some other way of getting money. the way states base structure their tax base is fascinating.

i keep going back to washington state. there is no income tax. they are one of seven states that do not have an income tax. tax, one ofo sales four states. their tax structures are completely different. onen a recession comes, oreg got hit really hard in the recession. people stopped buying goods and services when they lose their jobs. washington got hit harder over the long run because incomes went down. the sales tax states at least somewhat there because people have to buy something. then they pay taxes on that something. it is a fascinating difference when you structure your tax base

in different ways. host: susan is next from florida. caller: hi, sir. i was in the coin-op laundry business. i own them up until 10 years ago. i started out 18 years prior with those. the problem was the graduated wage for people that were making more than minimum wage. up.d bumped those people wages was a big part of the business. do not save the law was applicable to me because i employed less than 50. they had to present well to the general public. they could be easily hired at mcdonald's. businesses. you get more employees working

there that pay state taxes. then your state has less unemployment. if you leave me on the line so i can make a counterpoint -- guest: that is one of the leading argument you'll hear from republicans. lowering taxes creates more jobs, which then boosts the tax base and leads to more revenue down the line. what governors are doing these days is they are making long-term arguments. what happens when they implement a policy, that policy when up he felt in the state's economy or in their local -- it just when not be felt while they are in office. they will be retired for 10 years by the time a tax cut shows up, the revenue gain shows

up in the state budget. it is funny that the guys running for reelection now are running for reelection on it that assessor's a compos mentis --on their predecessor's accomplishments. it is funny to see these big differences between governors as they talk about the future. they are suggesting the state economic climate has something to do with their leadership when in large cases it doesn't. they all brag about jobs that come to the state. there is a press release any time a company says they will be new jobs. she has sent out press releases when 10 jobs come to a state from an elevator company.

they brag a lot about the jobs. host: do you have a follow-up? forer: it is a huge expense a small service business like i had. it is one of those things. every time i was hoping they did not raise it as i had to bump everybody up. keep in mind the time i went into business. it would be $600,000 in today's money. that was a lot of money i had to put down. i was taking a huge gamble. the employees that work for you do not take that gamble. guest: that is true. the minimum wage has a big impact on employers and small business. the people making eight dollars

an hour. those people will get lumped up -- bumped up, too. host: stephen is next from maine. this guy is way off line. for 37been in unions years. the governors are doing what they ran on. hoping the statehouse will run their agenda. then they run a different agenda. nobody is running on the stuff they are doing today. 50% of [indiscernible] this guy here should not be on and talking. host: ok. guest: i am not going to comment

on that. these governors are running for reelection this year on the platform of having created jobs and taking the state out of the recession. they deserve about as much credit for getting their states out of recession as the previous governors for getting their state into a recession. the governor of florida or california may be a powerful person but don't have much influence over the economy, the euro zone or the collapse of lehman brothers. translatingevents down to the states. they get credit for creating jobs. one of the states that stands the states have come back but the governors are in serious political trouble. in maine, the governor won

office with something like 37% of the vote because an independent candidate who captured about 34% of the vote. there was a combative style. they fought with the unions over a mural in the state capital that depicted the contributions of labor to the state of maine. the governor wanted that moved and there was a big brouhaha. he is a very competitive guy. inis trailing significantly the independent and democrat. the governor of pennsylvania is in serious trouble despite the fact that jobs had been created during his tenure. he doesn't deserve a lot of credit for that. ng of here is a sampli

local projects approved. states thatist of got the most. alaska -- d.c. nobody wants to talk about federal spending. they lovego home, bragging about spending. they love what the budget did for their home state. alaska got $10 billion. these members go home and send out less releases bragging about what they got for their project. it reminds me of the people who got reelected based on your marks -- earmarks. senator needs to brag about that and to make a

point he is bringing home federal dollars to his state. you see this a lot in press releases they go to state media. aboutthe state will get $10 million with almost all of that to go to grants to offset high energy costs. next call from beaver, a ohio. caller: hello. i was calling about the extensions affecting the union workers that worked construction and why it is that way. guest: could you be more specific? union construction workers. caller: my husband is a bricklayer. he will not be called back to work until april. i do not understand why his

federal unemployment extension was cut until he could go back to work. guest: it is caused by the inaction on capitol hill. democrats made that a big priority. it was the first thing that harry reid introduced in the new year. had five or six republicans working with him but he was the lead republican working to figure out ways to pay for that extension for a couple of months at a cost of $6 billion. those negotiations fell apart. they will go back to the drawing board and try something new. host: david from seattle, washington. caller: hello, ma'am. foris it so difficult

democrats and republicans across the caucus in the state proveators to basically what they say going into their elective measures of getting elected? why is it so difficult for them to put what they say going into elections and keep them throughout the elections and bring the promises that they allow, that they take to the general public? guest: governing is difficult. you you get into office, promise a lot of things that turn out not to be terribly doable. take a state like washington state. there are more democrats than republicans in the state senate.

two democrats are caucusing with republicans and give republicans virtual control of the senate. anybody who ran as a democrat will not be able to pass their agenda. any republican will not be able to pass their more aggressive agenda because those democrats are going to put on the brakes. governing is a coalition game. you have to build those coalitions as you go and that can be ready tough. host: let's talk about new jersey and chris christie. given everything happening around him. guest: it is pretty strong. he has always had a good relationship with a democrat named steve sweeney. the bridge gate scandal is going to lessen that relationship over

the short term. just after he was reelected, chris christie tried to give tom boot becausehe tom kane did not work well with stephen sweeney. chris christie need the democrat to pass the rest of his agenda before he decides to run for president. aris christie has always had pretty good relationship with the democrats. in new jersey, people scratch each other's back. statemore of a bipartisan than we think. you see that tension between chris christie and the democrats. host: the lieutenant governor will be responding to claims from the hoboken mayor that the lieutenant mayor pressured her

on sending relief funds and expected to make some kind of remark today. guest: they just passed a measure after the previous themnor that instituted running on a ticket together. before this, the president of the senate would succeed any governor who quit. there have been about six temporary governors or governors who stand in for other governors who have quit. this lieutenant governor is in fact the first the 10 a governor of new jersey. host: you have a story about a trio once voting laws back under federal watch. what did the lawmakers oppose? how do that impact states? guest: this goes back to the

voting rights act of 1965. 1964. one section made a number of different states that have had histories with preventing people from voting. it put them under federal jurisdiction. they have to ask permission to change any aspect of their election law. the supreme court ruled that protection is antiquated. those states now no longer under federal jurisdiction. a number of states passed things like voter id laws, cutting the number of early voting days, making it harder to get an absentee ballot, measures that would change the way people vote. a number of democrats want to reverse that and want to see

those states be back under federal jurisdiction. it wasn't just southern states. there were several counties in south dakota. there were parts of new underire that were protection from the voting rights act. it is not just southern states. the states who have moved most aggressively on voting reform have all been in the south. host: joe in california. caller: greetings. read an article --$1.4 trillion. let's go to san bernadino. 70% of the budget is for police pensions and police salaries.

detroit went bankrupt. has anyone noticed the fact the extent unemployment benefits have brought down crime rates? here is another thing. how come these pension managers are not sharing a cell with bernie made off? $1.4 trillion in unfunded mandates -- i think that is low. it is some more around $3 trillion. several states are dealing with it seriously. illinois just passed a big pension reform bill. you are going to see pension reform, in dozens of states. just about every state has huge pension liabilities to its

teachers, police, and firefighters, government employees who have been around for a long time. they were passed in the 1950's and the 1960's and now they're coming home to roost and it is costing state governments a lot more than they thought it was. caller.hn, a republican caller: both houses have been control but republicans. the first thing they did when governor schneider was elected was create a pension tax, raise other taxes on the citizens. that theeach budget governor has proposed, each have involved increased spending on both corporate and social welfare programs. regarding the state economy, vice president biden was

visiting the detroit auto show last week. he touted the fact that what he believed was the obama administration's policies that have saved the state. the governor gave his state of the state address. he said it was his policies that have saved our state. i have to believe more that it is the cyclical nature of our business cycle and the policies set forth by our federal reserve that have done more to help our economy than any one of our elected officials. guest: i think you are exactly right, john. it has more to do with what is happening on wall street or in the euro zone than anything that governor schneider or president obama has done. schneider is an hd example about

what happened to these governors. he ran on a platform of calling himself one tough nerd. he is not ideological. he is a republican. i get the feeling he would be more comfortable without any party label. i asked him about redistricting in his state. he looked at me like i was speaking a different language. he had no idea what i was talking about. a lot of governors came in not trying to be ideological. state legislators are more partisan. guys have been there for 20 years that essentially fight with each other. ways infused a lot of new blood in state legislatures as well. in a lot of states like michigan

and florida and north carolina and ohio, very partisan legislatures pass some very aggressive laws that go along with their ideologies. the governors a much more moderate. they do not want to stir up the hornet's nest. they do not want to veto them or pass them. they would not have brought them up on their own. that is why scott walker got recalled. he was not pushing the union reforms in the first place. he just took up the task when he signed the bill. we saw that with john kasich in ohio. jan brewer in arizona to some extent.

it is fascinating to watch the dynamic. relationship to tweak congress and the white house in miniature. host: you can follow reid wilson at "the washington post." and also on twitter. thank you very much. we will talk about the affordable care act and the impact it is having on the cost of health care in this country. jayne o'donnell will join us next for that cover station. --for that conversation. but first a news update from c-span radio. seven bomb explosions killed 26 people in the iraq capital today. this happened around the western cities of falluja.

no group claimed responsibility for the blast. insurgents are widely blamed for violence in the past year. government isthe supposed to sit down with their opponents face to face this week for the first time. the negotiations are up in the air as a new indication extended to iran is probably a threat from the opposition to pull out of the meeting. bashar al-assad says he might seek another term in office. a service member died when a suicide bomber attacked a coalition base in southern afghanistan. all nine insurgents were killed. the group were coalition uniforms. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio.

>> i think without question the communications act at this point is not keeping pace with where the market place is. as a general principle, when i tried to advocate for my own purchase the fcc is the fcc to do what it can to calibrate regulations to fit the times that of a statute requires us to do the contrary we are essentially stuck. i think we have reached the point, given the intermodal competition we see, that the fcc needs to be able to take actions to bring its regulations into the 21st century, to reduce the silos, for example, that require us to do telephone companies and cable companies and wireless companies differently even though they are competing to provide the same service. i think an update would be very useful and i have worked closely with my colleagues in congress for the success. >> republican fcc commissioner pai tonight on "the communicators." 8:00 eastern on c-span2. >> c-span.

we bring public affairs events from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings, and conferences, and offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house, all as a public service of private industry. we're c-span, created by the cable tv industry 35 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. you can watch us in hd. "washington journal" continues. is here to o'donnell talk about the health-care law. i want to begin with your most recent story. it will be a smaller amount. the main thing the affordable care act prevents is these enormous -- some people have million dollar debts. they are going into bankruptcy

because their plans were tapped. so now it is kind of reversed. the affordable care act caps what an individual family has to pay. some of these deductibles are so large. is average family -- there often separate deductibles for prescription drugs. it could be close to $10,000 you pay out of pocket. host: before your insurance kicks in, you have to pay premiums and deductibles. guest: you have your premiums, which can be quite high. these deductibles are really high. you and i have employer provided insurance.

the ayrshire dr. boll is about $1000 -- the average deductible is about $1000. we were just analyzing the healthcare.gov. that is pretty high for most people. host: how does that compare to what we have seen before the affordable care act? some major surgery where they do not have insurance and the cost a lot of money. lawst: it could cost -- the is trying to bring down health care costs. one of the reasons we are paying so much for an x-ray or an at ann or an injection emergency room is because there haven't to treat so many people who do not have insurance. hopefully it will bring some health-care costs down. if you get into a car accident,

it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. at $6,350.cap now that is the most have to pay out of pocket. for a family it is about $12,000. host: can you lower your out-of-pocket costs depending which plan you pick? guest: if you sign up for the affordable care act, there is the bronze, gold, silver, platinum plans. host: can you pick a cheaper plan? guest: yes. the people with the least money to spend will have the bronze plans. they are saving in premiums. if they get sick, they will pay 60% of the cost of their health care needs.

80, ande it is 60, 70, 90. if you can't afford a platinum plan, you will only pay 10% of your out-of-pocket. the people that buy a bronze plan, 40% incurred will be out of their own pocket. host: average insurance deductibles for an individual, $5,000 deductible on the bronze plan. you have silver about $3000 for an individual and a little over $6,000 for the family. host: what does that tell you? guest: it is a lot of money. peopleare one of the

that has a subsidized plan -- if you make up to 400 times the federal poverty level, which can be $80,000, which doesn't go very far in a place where we live. if you are a middle class family making $50,000 a year, an individual, you are not getting a subsidized plan and you'll pay in full. host: how do you judge affordability? guest: that was one of the problems we have. we asked for people to write in. such a politically charged issue. you do not want to believe -- someone says it is not affordable. i do not want to be the one to say whether it is affordable.

8% or 9%, theeen premiums, it is considered unaffordable, and you do not have to buy insurance. we looked at affordability. there were so many plans the government would not consider affordable. $50,000 ale making year, about half the counties do not have a plan considered affordable. that is a lot. host: what does the affordable care act say about that? guest: what the administration says -- i do not have a position on this. there is some validity to what they say. this was designed to make

insurance affordable for the people who are uninsured, not necessarily the people who had a private plan and needed to stay insured. the goal is to get the uninsured insured. those are the people who are happy. i hear from them occasionally. ore are paying $50 a month $100 a month in premiums. they are thrilled. we look at the negative as journalists. you respond to readers. people were just jarred by the prices. some of the people that were strong advocates of the law were saying once everything was kicked off october 1 and there were so many problems, they would say to me, "wait until people can get on this site.

the other issue is going to drop." it took a little while. host: here are the five largest counties where plans maybe unaffordable -- philadelphia county in pennsylvania. host: we are talking with jayne o'donnell, a consumer reporter for "usa today." first. tennessee is up caller: good morning. you mentioned that bronze plan with the high deductible. isn't that $10,000 deductible -- less than if lot

you did not have insurance at all. guest: sure. many people were not paying for their insurance. they could not afford it. they were ending up in medical debt or bankruptcy. decidedly it is better. things are better than it was. problems are persisting for a lot of people. host: are you still there? do you have a follow-up? caller: we have had to spend decades with taxpayers paying for people whoed do not have insurance. guest: go ahead, i was interrupting. host: that taxpayers have had it paid for, those without insurance. guest: that is the discussion i get into. they say, why do we have to pay

for those people? i say, you already are. that is the point. you pay when you go to the emergency room or dr. and things cost so much. so many people are not able to pay for the health care. emergency rooms have to take anybody. host: will there be less for the consumer? guest: one hopes so. that is the goal here. host: we have this tweet. anotherhat is the goal, one of the goals for the law. we thought about that a lot in my family. when you only have to pay $20 out-of-pocket, if that is affordable. you do go if you think there

might be, even an flu. a lot of the stuff can be treated at home. that is the goal, to get people to think about why they go to the doctor. white plains, new york, michael. caller: i am there. are you there? host: we are listening. caller: we need a national health plan like they have in canada. anybody who has the money, should be able to buy five at health insurance if they want it. -- will be ablen to be private as well as medicare. they will get a certain amount

of pay, like they do. the private patients. 85% national sales tax -- a five percent national sales tax. host: all right, michael. jayne o'donnell? guest: this is what the administration was able to get past. anything that goes any farther would remain a real question. look at how my efforts are underway to get it repealed altogether. we have to be happy with what we have. there are going to be tweaks around the edges. host: ted in new hampshire. caller: yes. hello? mentionedn is, she $6,000.

i think that was for the most they could charge you. is that per procedure? if you had to go three times a year, is it $6,000 every time, or is it cap at a one-time charge? guest: that would be the most you would pay out of pocket a year. if he stayedng, overnight in hospital, you would get $6,000. youthe rest of the year, would not have to pay more out-of-pocket. host: is that different in which plan you choose? guest: that is what the government says is the cap. depending onower, what plan you have. that is the maximum. as you are shopping, if you don't have insurance, the

maximum out of pocket is one thing to look at. host: how do you tell people to shop among the plans? guest: we were saying take your time. people had more time than they realize because it was harder to get on. i have recommended that it is so complicated. you really isn't as easy as buying an airline ticket on orbitz. it is important to sit down with somebody who could help you understand what you are likely to pay and to balance out. if you take a number of prescription drugs, it might make sense to pay a higher premium. it is really jarring. even group insurance, people have to pay $100 every time they

or a job until it hits $3000 $6,000. it is fairly common, or becoming more common. there is a chance that the insurance will be able to do that if there is an outside company managing the benefit. they can charge a separate benefit for that. i know plenty of companies that have done that, and people are not happy. host: john, republican caller. caller: young people are not going to be buying into this. how long do you project it will be before the roof caves in? guest: i will not make any rejections. i do not know the roof is going to cave in. that is something the republicans say is going to happen fairly soon.

it is hard to say. we have been analyzing the data on healthcare.gov since early november. some of the plans in some counties -- there is such a wide range. there are exceptions that would surprise you in both directions. the insurers were being pretty cautious. they do not know what they were going. they didn't know how many young people they were going to get. they aren't getting as many as they need. that is worrisome. the premiums and the deductibles can be so high in certain parts of the country. the hope is it is going to get better. they didn't know who their customers were. they estimated up supposedly.

maybe it will get better. host: what are you hearing about cost now that people can start using these plans. people who bought into the exchanges could start using these different plans. guest: i have not talked to anyone yet who has used a plan. so many people have not gotten their cards yet. i do not know what the costs are. if anything, it is going to continue. your health care costs are growing at a much slower rate than they were. host: we are talking with jayne o'donnell. the impact the health care law is having on medical costs. george, democratic caller. caller: i think the insurance companies are trying to rip people off. you can keep your

insurance if you want, as obama said. -- they can get more people to come into the firm. guest: i do not know that insurance companies are dropping people. if the person had a plan that did not meet the criteria of the affordable care act, they put them into another plan. most of those people ended up in a much more expensive plan because they had to cover a lot more. you might at that happy because it would cover maternity care. if you're a 16-year-old couple, they weren't happy --60-year-old company. the insurance companies are still trying to make money. i do not know i would agree with the caller.

they are being cautious and are waiting to see how this shapes out and how heart of a hit they're going to take to meet all these provisions. host: walter in north carolina. caller: hi. i had a cook story of what happened here in north carolina. three months ago they tried to implement the affordable care act into the computer systems, and this was testified in front of our state legislature last week, it crashed our food stamp system. north carolina has been without food stamps since november. guest: i have not heard that. that is a shame. that is perhaps one of the most drastic things i have heard outside of problems -- we are located in maryland. they did their own -- they have

their own exchange and it was considered competitive but they are having a lot of problems, too. do continue. i hope the situation in north carolina was rectified. host: you look at the federal exchange. exchangesat to stay affordability. is it better if a state set up their own? guest: that is so time-consuming. a consulting firm did an analysis and we had them look at what we did to help us make sense of what we were seeing. their average deductible was a little lower. they did a scattershot survey of states and the federal exchanges. $4000.more like still really high.

it just depends how many -- generally speaking they are better off. the insurance companies felt comfortable going into the states. if you wish did -- it pretty much depended on what the president says. he might think the prices would be higher. it is a fairly competitive state. they hadt was because one or more insurance companies that were already doing business in the rural areas. still whereeas are it is hard to find hospitals. many insurers do not want to

have their plans there because they cannot put together the network. bridging is pretty competitive. host: we'll go to arlington texas, democratic caller. caller: i actually have a plan. ppo fromsilver plan blue cross, blue shield. i am in arlington, texas. my plan is $370 per month. it is much better than what might employer had -- what my employer had given me. plan did not cover anything and had 47 things it did not cover. it would not even cover routine care. i am not going to subsidize because i make too much money. this program was not in place i would not even be allowed to have it because i have a condition.

even my medication is covered under my employer plan -- is covered. my employer plan only covers generic medicine. people who do not want this plan in place need to have their head examines. anyone wouldwhy want to stop anyone from getting routine health care. i don't look at this as government insurance, it is civil rights. you cannot be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition. it is so nice to hear these stories.

exactly what the law, this is one of the things the law was designed to address. sad but the number of people i hear from, it is weighted to the ones complaining. the ones who are the happiest are people who have pre-existing conditions and cannot get insurance. that is probably the biggest thing. if people cannot get insurance, we are all going to be paying for it anyway. gentlemanreat that a like this could get affordable health care and get things covered? these different costs are going up and while they are trying to get us to not go to the doctor every time we have a cold, they are going to pay for our physicals or our physicals will be paid in full. proceduresinds of

that we used to have to pay a certain percentage out-of-pocket . how much do people think that will save in medical costs? not actually sure. do you mean out-of-pocket for the general person? general costs. if you catch something early enough. if it is the federal government you will probably save aliens. philadelphia was one of the first stories -- save millions. philadelphia was one of the first stories i worked on. hospital, i in the have known her for three months. twice i have called her she had just gotten out of the hospital for a full week. she cannot pay the bill.

people just have to keep saying sorry to the bill collectors. if she had been getting regular doctor visits and had affordable drugs and could go to the doctor and had these things treated, she ended up having to choose between which ailment she is going to address. issue going to get coverage under the affordable care act? -- is she going to get covered under the affordable care act? works too. and she ironically she works at a health clinic. host: which plan did she choose? guest: she haven't chosen it yet when i talked to her. she was paying far more out-of- pocket every month. independent caller from georgia, hello. my question is regarding

why to be still pay three to five times as much for, -- for pharmaceuticals as anybody else in the industrialized world? the same thing happens with drugs that are marketed and distributed out of japan. how much has your investigative , do you look at the amount of lobbying money from the pharmacy companies and insurance companies? is something i have personally written on. i am aware the pharmaceutical industry is one of the top industries. the former chair the committee and commerce went on. one of the things i have covered over the years, i have covered the federal trade commission and

they have worked very hard on patent deals they gone on between the brand name countries and generic companies. sometimes the generic companies are getting paid off to stay off the market. that is one thing that leads to these high drug costs. that is one of the factors. i cannot really address all of the other factors. fill in oklahoma city, a republican. one of the things i want to say about health insurance is that when you pick a plan, you want to pick one your doctor is in. there are 15 different networks per plan. at the network first and then pick a plan -- there are lots of people that are rejected from the health insurance. if they are never given a reason. they don't tell them why they are rejected.

the fair credit reporting act requires people with turndowns to get a letter. why can't we have a fair health report act? what are the reasons for being rejected from health care? with higherpeople incomes being rejected. it is not all income. there must be a lot of reasons why they were rejected. >> we will leave it there. >> going back to the doctors, that is another thing i have reported on. novemberprobably mid- when i was talking to doctors. i know it is still the case. some of the doctors don't even know what plans they are on. of the obvious things one people tell -- one of the obvious things people tell thers is -- there were different rules for the different insurance companies. the of them would put

doctor automatically on the exchange plan. there really was no rhyme or reason and because the system has been screwed up and the it can be difficult. it is a perfect point to be made. you need to check because a lot of times the provider networks have been reduced. new hampshire was one area where they have been very unhappy. they have these people going to boston to get what they considered the real quality care. as to why people were rejected, i hope this law solves a lot of that because there are so many more choices now. they certainly cannot be rejected because of pre-existing conditions. i am not sure how that is going to be affected. matthew in pennsylvania, a republican caller.

areer: my question is how the veterans of the v.a. going to be affected? guest: you are in good shape. veterans can still do that. the if there was some problem i suppose you could consider looking into something on the exchange. you should be completely fine and unaffected by this. host: gloria in indianapolis, democratic caller. i am confused about something you're guest said. pay au say you have to $6,000 deductible before the insurance even kicks in? guest: exactly. caller: does that -- that leads me to another confusion.

if you're out-of-pocket is another amount, you're saying you have to pay another deductible and now you are -- ng out-of-pocket guest: as i mentioned the out- of-pocket limit -- think of that is everything you have to pay, which includes your deductible. you wouldn't have to pay much want to hit your deductible. was 3600 and 50 you would only have to pay another 350. -- 3650 you would only have to pay another 350. foundation says they did a study on medical debt and said the average family really only has $3000 they can put their hands on. even getting up to the deductible is going to send them

into bankruptcy echo unlikely. sign up for one of these plans, when are you opening up your wallets to pay for health care? you are going to own your premium pretty quick. your monthly bill is your premium. doctor,as you go to the unless you have a platinum plan does not have co-pays, you are going to be paying a cope -- a co-pay. if it's for your physical, you are golden. deductibles, is that right? you will get as many colds, flu's, broken ankles, your $3000 deductible is met. then you will be paying a percentage of the cost of your health care. if you have a bronze plan, it is going to cover 60% and you are

going to be covering 40% of your health care. sonja is next, anaheim, california. the craddick caller. -- democratic caller. my name is sonia and i live out here in california. i have been trying to apply to the affordable care act. then when i get to medi-cal, medi-cal tells me i don't qualify. i call back to the affordable and they tell me that i slipped in between the crack's. i cannot get health insurance from this or that way. i would have to go to a clinic. who do i believe? that does not make sense

because i believe california expanded medicaid. when you say you into the affordable care act, you call the california exchange? caller: exactly. guest: i would be in calling -- be calling an insurance broker or navigator. is i would view suggest finding an insurance broker that will not cost you any more than a navigator. the navigators are very good in california. search for california and look for help. it will give you a list of organizations. you're being told the wrong thing, this idea that you have to go to a clinic. everybody can get health insurance, it is just a matter of what price they pay. kerry from georgia,

independent caller. with they question is , withbeing democratic them still being able to be covered under their parents plan and many of them being married and still covered under their parents plan, how are we going to stimulate the youth to be able to want to be a part of this program when they are arty being covered under their parents insurance? additionally there seems to be many doctors that are opting out and are not going to accept the ach plan whatever. obviously that is a two- part question and it they concern. to get a lot more young people. there are a lot of people -- a lot of young people that are still on their parents plans. i can only do that until they're 26.

there are people that work for these navigator groups, hanging outside of bars at 2:00 in the morning. there are these extreme but funny ads that reminds people that the kind of risks they take makes them a perfect candidate for health insurance. they really have to get that that is the big challenge. you hit the nail on the head there. that is a big concern. i have not personally looked into how much less the doctors are getting. i know doctors are insulted by what medicaid pays. one doctor says he prefers not to get paid. some of these plans pay comparable amounts to medicaid. reason that you really have to check to make sure the doctor you want to go to is on the plan. eddie in massachusetts,

republican caller. general motors said they paid more for health insurance than they do for steel. a with higher premiums, how are they going to compete in the future? won't their insurance rates go up? as you probably know -- guest: as you probably know the company has a one-year delay. they will raise rates for people on their insurance and pretty much everybody that has employer-provided insurance knows that the deductibles have been going up, the pentiums have been going up and the number of options have been shrinking. be betterill going to off if you have employer- provided insurance.

it will not be as good. that is how they are going to compete. our last call will be from caroline in florida, democratic caller. caller: i appreciate your program. point.wanted to make a i recently got on medicare and i was on insurance through my company for many many years. the premiums on those policies went up every single year over the 28 years i worked for that company. originally our insurance was for european over the years we paid more and more and more because they could not afford it. at the end are premiums were $380 per month for our insurance . this is private insurance through private company. i don't see where things are that much higher.

my coverage got dropped and my deductible went up every year while my premiums were going up. my out-of-pocket went up every year. the problem is the cost of insurance and the insurance companies. i recently had cancer for a second time. they wanted to give me the shots they gave me last time i had cancer. this shot cost $4000. i am on medicare now. that is the kind of thing we need to be looking at. why do i need the shock every week at this time when i had the exact same treatment before and they did not give it to me until my blood count was superlow? i am glad you brought that up.

there is so much criticism of this law that i think people do forget that insurance has been going up every year. it went up five years ago and it wasn't the affordable care act. it has been jarring for people. $380 sounds like a lot to a lot of us. i am hearing $800 per month, $1200 per month. i am from connecticut and the rates are very high up there. it certainly isn't just the affordable care act that is making rates go up by any means. be such an informed consumer and ask somebody questions. it sounds like the caller did ask her doctor about that. they often do ask for care.

you really have to be a smart consumer. >> what are you watching for next? in the short term we just want to see the data on the deductibles -- the data on the deductibles last month when up more. hopefully we can take a look at the big states. it will be interesting to see what happens next year. maybe it will go down, maybe the insurance companies about who they are going to be covering or maybe they are not going to get enough of the young people and rates will go even higher. it will be interesting. host: james tweets -- [laughter] he says the affordability question of -- raises a good point.

i don't know the answer to that. can get fairly good rates. they are subsidizing older people to a certain extent but the rates are pretty good. been talking to small businesses and midsize businesses. they all need a young people to offset it but the rates are better. you can follow her online at usa.com or on twitter at jayne o'donnell. thank you very much. up next, our weekly your money segment continues with a look at how your tax dollars are being spent to help americans with their heating bills. first a news update from c-span radio. >> the united nations nuclear agency is confirming iran has halted its bus and sent that its

most sensitive uranium and enrichment work. a report by the international atomic agency says iran stopped its 20% uranium enrichment process. it is just steps away from bomb making capabilities. an american missionary detained in north korea was under guard today when he appeared before reporters to apologize for committing what he says are antigovernment act's. he also appealed to the u.s. government to do its best to secure his release. he was arrested in november of 2012 while leading a tour group. he was accused of crimes against the state and sentenced to 15 years of hard labor. the opening of postal service retail centers and staple stores around the country is being met with threats of protests and boycotts by the agency's unions. the new outlets are staffed by staples employees, not postal workers.

patrick donahoe says the program has nothing to do with privatization and everything to do with customer service and driving up demand for the agency's products. the union says it is not asking to shut down the program. it wants the counters to be run by postal employees, not workers hired by staples. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> i know that every single problem in america would be better if more people could read, write, and comprehend. we would be able to compete with the rest of the world. we would not have these children who are committing crimes. they don't have jobs because they cannot read, they cannot write. they do not understand. i think every thinking american

is coming to that conclusion. got to educate our children and we have to educate the parents. just a whim, it is a necessity. 9:00rbara bush tonight at eastern live on c-span and c- span three, also on c-span radio and c-span.org. >> without question the communications act at this point is not keeping pace with where the marketplace is. as a general principle, what i try to advocate is the fcc should do what it can to calibrate its regulations to fit the times. if the statute requires us to do the contrary the are essentially stop. the fcc needs to be able to take actions to bring its regulations , to requirecentury us to treat telephone and cable

companies and wireless companies differently, even providing the same service. an update would be very useful and i have worked closely with our colleagues in congress. commissioner tonight on the communicators. >> c-span, we bring public affairs events from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, readings and conferences, and offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house, all as a public service of private industry. there c-span, created by cable tv industry 35 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. >> "washington journal" continues. we take a look at how your

taxpayer dollars are being spent. federal program. here to talk about that is mark woolf, the executive director of the national energy directors association here in washington dc. who qualifies? thank you for inviting me. the program as the primary federal program that helps families pay their heating and cooling bills. they receive about $3.4 billion per year. it is available in every state of the country. of qualifications are based on income. four them expected a 5000 per year would qualify. the state set the beautiful eligibility. 10% higher in some cases.

that is the basic eligibility for the program. host: the annual spending is $2.5 billion in 2013. in 2012.n that number has been higher in past years. inreached about $5 billion 2010. >> and allowed us to reach about 8 million households. only about one out of five eligible families. been 2010 our funding has cut from $1.5 billion to $3.3 billion. what does it mean? we are not an entitlement like medicaid or medicare or if you meet the eligibility requirements then it just keeps printing money so you can keep doing benefits. the money runs out, the program ends. congress has funded the program to reach about 8 million

families in -- 8 million families. we cannot reach all the families that need help. we also have cut the average benefits. that means the amount of money a family can receive, $500 to $400 , that worked when energy prices were going down. it was sort of ok. what congress cap to was basically taking all of the spare capacity of the program. when prices are going up faster than we expected -- at the beginning of the year the energy administration projected about $1000 to heat a home. as $1200be as high this winter because of the unexpected cold snap.

with the problem there is that there is no spare capacity. flexibilityave more to reach out to families at greater risks. but they do not create a that is what we are concerned about. the situation could have been far worse. the second sequester could have really hurt the programs. what that means is you are only able to reach those at a great risk. you cannot reach families who are suddenly moved into poverty. some of those families will be at greater risks. we still have services, resources. that really concerns us. this tweet it out about

the $1.1 billion spending bill. 160 $9 million over last year's out location. is it mostly the cold states that family -- more families live? this is a national program that reaches all states. there is more press attention when a family cannot afford to buy the next tanker load of fuel. the cold tends to generate more press stories. more warm weather conditions are equally concerned. arizona was 110 degrees in the be have large pockets of poverty in the south. and arkansasabama

area. the problem there are some are cooling. the program barely has enough money to run those programs. senator schumer was right. when we were looking at appropriations, it was pretty grim -- pretty grim. the problem is it sounds like those aree big deal? real people. today's topic is home heating assistance. it is the low-energy heating assistance program. margaret since the directors on

the state level. what we used -- mark represents the directors on the state levels. what would you say they represent the echo -- they represent? ira present the managers of the program. the: what happens when federal government gives $3.5 billion for 2014? where does the money go from there? it goes to nonprofit agencies. once they are approved the funds go to wrigley to the vendor. in most cases the funds never go to the recipient directly. they get their bill and it won't say how much energy they consume for that month -$500?

the averages $400. it used to be about $500 or half the cost of home heating. now we are going down the $400 or 40%. what are the qualifications and is that vary from state to state? there are is some flexibility in spending eligibility. it is about $35,000 for a family of four. jefferies first, independent, from connecticut. caller: good morning. i live up in plainfield, connecticut. there is not any kind of heating

assistance with a quiet corner. they do not service this area. how would i go about getting that type of assistance? guest: if you have any questions, you can go to our there is a list of state contacts there. lisa from north carolina, republican caller. caller: i think i just got the answer. neda.org? -- www.neada.org?

i have a neighbor who handed me her gas bill. i help her pay all her bills. she now thinks- they are going to pay her bills. i said i want to actually help her keep her house. she has two kids. she lost her job and her unemployment ran out a while ago. she gets child support from a guy who pays for it adequately. i pay her bills just because she's my kid. does the carolina help people pay bills -- does carolina help

people pay the bills and winter? even though the program has been cut we still have resources. programs in most states have just started. i would go encourage you to talk to your local agency. most states do not have asset test's, unlike food stamps and medicaid. we have to move a lot of people very quickly through the program. asset tests can slow the process down greatly. many elderly families are very to show how much money they have in the banks. is someur concerns families who clearly need help, maybe it wouldn't apply. the point is to make this as easy as possible to sign up for

and primarily focus on income. a history -- a comment on the history of the program -- this program started in the early 80's -- in the early 1980s during the energy price spike. like many programs it was public cold weather states pay for heating oil. at $2 billionzed for a long time, i merely focused on cold-weather states. since then it has become of the social safety net. our program is not a broad-based program. our program's focuses on those that great risks.

in some ways our program has a very strong public health aspect to it. the government accountability office looked into a program in 2010. at that time this was at risk of fraud. how has that been addressed yet -- addressed? guest: what was driving those errors? some of our best run programs -- what it looked like it was paperwork errors. whose spousemily

has died for the bill was in their name, they sometimes are reluctant to change the name. that was an incorrect payment. there were two people instead of one. with the fraud, that is an open question. families would be asked what the size of their family was. a spouse may have died or is possibly in prison. they would give the foreword to the people and it wasn't correct. we are now in the second year of that effort. there is a lot to help make the programs more efficient. it is not fraud but at the same time we have the same amount of money.

we have been working on this page congress actually set aside money. i work back in the 80s when it first started. people who are living in public housing were not eligible. i cannot remember why the section eight people were excluded. allowance utility built into their budget. they allow a certain amount for utilities. at the time the excluded people in public housing from getting lahea.- getting

go to the communications agencies and get themselves. my question is what was the reasoning for opening it up to the people and public houses on section 8? checks.them get utility i also work in public housing. what was the reasoning behind whoing it up to people already get a utility check? it is really at the discretion of the state. the utility allowance is built into their rent and how much they can pay for rent. is --f their rent

includes energy costs. housingtes allow public residents to apply. it is because we have on limited funds. we don't have entitlements so we have to limit payments so we can and --s many families families. host: from twitter -- robert in oklahoma, republican caller. most states municipalities have a lifeline of energy use at the lowest cost. some counties and some states do not. does your agency work with that

or work with congress getting these heating and air- conditioning companies to increase that amount of lifeline energy use per family? guest: about 20 states have supplemental programs that have discounts coming through the regulatory system or direct payments on top of the payment you received. that makes a big difference. there are also shut off prevention rules. i think there is about $2 billion. on top of the $3.4 billion through the federal fund, they're doing $2 billion that comes through natural gas, about $150 million the comes from charity.

the combined effort is probably about $6 billion between utility discounts. there are a couple of states that provide supplemental funding. those families are in really tough shape. are reading about natural gas prices coming down, that is true. for those using heating oil, you could be looking at $2400. host: here are the projected changes in home heating costs from last winter. homes heatede for

primarily with natural gas. two percent lower for heating oil. we are looking at the beginning of the winter heating season. prices are expected to go up. we are looking at a very tough situation for families. i think the additional funding we got really helps. oit is certainly not enough. you put together the purchasing power consumers have. talk to us about these numbers

for heating oil, natural gas, electricity, and fuels. what we have tried to do is what can you buy with the liheap. multiple -- are volatile. families can't really prepare for spikes in energy costs. costs about $2300 to heat your home with heating oil. this year it is predicted to be $2400. wascost of natural gas $7,400 to your home. that was $724 to heat your home. -- was $724 to heat your home.

the question was what can we do with that? what can we buy? been tracking closely what does the average one purchase? this year it is down to 17%. that is a conglomerate of all energy costs. that was a pretty reasonable benefit. it was reasonable to ask -- to cover half the cost. the averagele that can drop 35% based on the colder -- host: independent color and indiana. i don't mind helping people pay bills if they are cold.

guy was waiting in line for heating assistance, smoking a cigarette. does that mean we pay his heating bill and he can afford five dollars for a pack of cigarettes? guest: our focus is on the family income, not how much they spend that income. if half the families do not have any other source of income. that check does not adjust based on what happens in winter. elderly,ies that are the check will go up $200. they're losing on income. studies show that when families do not have enough money to pay their energy bill, it is a public health issue. they cut back on medicine, on

food, on essential clothing. that is our real concern. have you help families stay connected? how do you help families stay connected? population paye their heating bills. it was designed to keep that 10% of the population connected. what has happened since then is the number of families that have little in the way of resources has grown considerably since the recession. utilities have to think about 20% struggling to pay their bills. like heat was not designed to -- was not designed to serve that population. to $5 billion up

per year partly because of this growing recognition that it is not 10% of the population that struggles, it is 20% now. a republican caller in virginia is up next. how much oversight is on this program? guest: there is considerable oversight. first, state managers, their reviewibility is to local agencies and audit them. of than the federal government through the light heap program program.h the liheap be heavy-o not much handed but in order to understand how to help them work better, how to make sure that funds get to the right families. funds go tothe

admittance. -- to admittance -- to admins. about $400,vel was -- most of the problems have been paperwork problems. ontend to focus heavily those families at greatest risk. host: william in pittsburgh, independent color. -- independent caller. caller: i heard the gentleman earlier asking about the way money was spent. crew that rents a woman's home and she was claiming they did not get to her in time. she said it was the only room they could afford to heat. she had a 56 inch plasma,

playstation, stereos three -- stereos. people use taxpayers to pay all their bills so they can spend the money elsewhere. some of these people have taken a whole life. the means to be more checks and balances. most families have very little in the way of resources. a family making $35,000 per year has very little in the way of resources. there are always exceptions. you can always find families where it is puzzling how they can afford a plasma tv. the families have very little in the way of resources.

the average family over 85 years old has a median income of $15,000. is cable tv ok? they never get out, of course they have cable. is -- large what we find we checked income very carefully . we checked against families in prison, against death rates. we check for fraud and those sorts of issues. there is always going to be an exception. our main point is to help families get through this very tough winter payment cycle or summer cooling cycle. host: what are the income requirements? guest: for a family of four making about $35,000 per year,

that is the same of a family of two at $23,000 per year. that is right near the poverty level. it can go up to 60% of state medium, which can be a little bit higher. a family of four making about $35,000 -- for -- are on eligible >> they are family of four. host: democratic caller from georgia. i am elderly and disabled are you my sole income is social security. i live on $9,000. her. $9,000 per year.

it doesn't seem to be able to get together for people like me. car and i live in kind of a role area. goes down to the place where they are taking the applications. the community center, where they are taking the applications is a high crime area. the first 175 people in line. this --a walk but mothers with children are getting in line at 3:30 in the morning. until 7:30.n't open guest: that sounds very

difficult. i'm not sure about george in particular. him they will actually go to your home to help you sign up. our priority our families and the elderly. it --nds like your income tim cook clearly fits. -- income clearly fits. i would call the state agency and ask them about this. to reach families like yourself who are in need. it sounds like getting to the agency is difficult. to thinkes have tried this process through rather than make you go on -- make you go to the agency. it is not practical to stand in line. john in jacksonville,

florida, a democratic caller. caller: i am an executive director of the community action agency here in florida. we do operate the program and we have been operating since its inception. what we try to do is prioritize our services to people with disabilities, just like the lady from georgia who called. she is a high priority person for us here in jacksonville florida. host: how do you reach out to people like betty e caller: -- like that? caller: we outreach. we do advertising and then they call in and tell us. and then we take applications for them. do that with disabilities, people like this lady who was calling from georgia, who is on walker and

things like that. the final point i would like to make is that we serve about 8000 households. thisst got cut from program starts in april here in florida. we are taking about a million dollar cut in our allocations. obviously it will be drastically reduced. those are good comments. the other thing is important is provided, hhss has not been the allocations yet. we will be getting additional funding probably in a month. it takes about three to five weeks to calculate and get the funds out.

saw,of the cuts you hopefully there will be a story. they allocated 90% of the money we received last year. tore's is probably close $300 million they will be able to release here sorely -- release here shortly. there will be more money available. and thehave been cut program has been cut to the bone but we still have resources. we have about $3.5 billion in total. that should allow us to at least restore some of the cuts from last year and probably serve about 7 million households. not the 8-9,000,000 we were serving and we will have to turn people away and we kw