went back into the interrogation room. i felt confident that i had gotten rid of evidence that could possibly keep me there for a area long time. about five minutes later, the >> more with her, the director "the square." on sunday night at 8 p.m. ladies, featuring barbara bush. followed by a recent interview first lady. t onr tonight, evan faye liberals and the media. ♪ >> did i feel prepared?

yes. i did notice the difference between being the vice president's wife and the president's wife is huge because the vice president's wife can say anything and nobody cares. the minute you say one thing as the president's wife, you have made the news. >> barbara bush used the office of first lady to promote literacy and to raise awareness about aids and homelessness. she earned her way into the history books. she and abigail adams are the only women to be both a wife and mother of a president. welcome to "first ladies: influence and image." tonight is the story of barbara bush. for the next 90 minutes, to tell us more about her life and

influence are two guests. the barbara bush biographer, part of the series we have turned to so often. she is a first ladies scholar. jeffrey engel is the founding director of the center for presidential history at southern methodist university. he is the author of one book on george bush's foreign-policy. we heard barbara bush talk about the fact that when she became first lady, her words were much more attention getting. that trend continues. we will see clips of an interview that she gave to us in october. one of them has been bouncing all around the news networks for several days because she talked about presidential dynasties, political dynasties, and the potential for jeb bush's presidential aspirations.

barbara bush -- she had a reputation for a good quote and candid comments. >> she was always very aware of her public persona and i think she was always concerned about whether it would have political consequences for her husband. she also was very candid and sometimes a comment slipped out and she admonished herself or from time to time. >> the candid barbara bush had some pluses and minuses. >> she would really speak her mind and she was somebody who would speak her mind to the president, but not in a public way. she would tell him what she

really thought. >> as we are working our way through the biographies of these women, barbara bush is between two much more publicly active first ladies. nancy reagan, hillary clinton. barbara bush talks about her approach to the job. >> if you ever wanted to give advice or talk about policy with your husband, how would you do that? >> if i wanted to, i would just tell him. the truth is, i did not want to. he had great advisers. i never called his office to say, if i had something to say, i would say it to george bush. but i did not call jim baker.

i have never had an office except in the house. at the white house, i had an office, but i never went to it. i did not get into his office affairs. >> describe her approach. >> as she became first lady, she wanted to do something positive every day and she set out with her staff to do that. she looked up potential for her literacy project, some of the other thing she was interested in, and it was full speed ahead to try to do that one good thing every day. >> as you look through the documentary, where can you see through historical documents evidence of her influence on the

white house? >> very little evidence of her influencing policy. she believed her role was to set a proper standard for the white house. her impact upon the administration was really in portraying them as forthright and honest. we do not see any particular policies that come out of her influence. rather a general tone that the public took to. >> how is that different than the reagan years? >> mrs. reagan like to get her hands dirty in politics. she would frequently call up the office of the president admonishing them for one thing or another. mrs. bush never did that. she did not directly involve herself in policy.

she cared a lot about politics. she knew what was going on in washington. she made sure she knew the gossip, but she was not interested in changing the policy. >> during the campaign times, as she involved in strategy? >> less about strategy than being out in front for the campaign. she was much more popular than he was. many times the president would center out on the campaign trail and begin to answer questions with, barbara and i think. >> the subtitle of your biography is presidential matriarch and that is the next clip we will like to show you. let's listen in.

>> how do you develop that thick skin for politics? >> i am not good at it. most people do not dare criticize my children in front of me. the press, i do not pay any attention to. i do not like it, but i do not pay any attention to it. do not dare criticize george h.w. bush. ever. >> when she came to the white house, she told her press secretary that there were three areas where you'd better keep hands off -- her fellow, family, and her dogs. that followed through. she was very concerned and reacted sometimes very quickly if there was criticism of george bush.

and the children. >> we are going to invite you to participate in our discussion tonight. we have a conversation underway on our facebook page. you can join that. you can also tweet us. and you can call us. we have our lines divided geographically. we will try to get as many comments from as many different media as we can tonight. let's understand where she came from. she was was born in new york city in 1925. >> she was born in new york. at the time of her birth, her

father was on the staff of the president at the mccall's publishing company. her mother was a descendent of an ohio supreme court justice. the pierce family was related to president franklin pierce. the family moved to rye, new york, where barbara and her siblings grew up. it was a comfortable upbringing. they went to private schools. when barbara was old enough for high school, she was sent away to ashley hall, a boarding school in south carolina. home for christmas break of her junior year, she went to a country club dance and that is when she met george h.w. bush. >> they were very young people and they got married very young. what do you know about the attraction, early courtship?

>> they were attracted from the start. they developed an intimate correspondence, which was typical for the times. george bush decides to join the navy. he becomes the youngest aviator in the pacific theater. their correspondence is emotional, intimate, when they could not be together in the same spot. when they could be together, it was electric. >> she began school at smith college. >> she was there for a year and she admitted that she was not the most dedicated of students. she was more interested in her boyfriend.

i believe she was rather active in athletics. she went back for the first semester of her sophomore year and then left school to marry george bush. >> as a young couple, when he went off as an aviator, he had some very close encounters. do you know the story of his being shot down in the pacific? >> it is a harrowing story. he was on a bombing run and he went in on the run, started to dive down, and was hit by enemy aircraft. he continued on his bombing mission and called back to his fellow crewmates and said, we will continue this mission. we will bail out. he thought they had already left the plane.

he discovered later that there was no chance for them to have survived. he was alone in the pacific and spent 4.5 hours bobbing up and down in the pacific before he was rescued. he spent another several weeks continuing with the submarine on their patrol mission. it was unclear for his parents what had happened to him. he was listed as missing in action. they made a decision not to tell barbara until they knew for certain. >> they missed their first wedding date because he was not back. finally, he was back. on january 6, two weeks after the original date, they were married. >> he served in the military until when? >> he served until 1945 until

the peace treaties were signed. he had many points accumulated so he was able to take an early out. he and barbara left for new haven and yale and the beginning of his long-delayed college career. george walker bush was born during that time. it was also at that point that george h.w. bush was playing varsity baseball at yale and barbara was the official scorer for the team. it was a happy time for them. >> they had six children. george, robin, jeb, neil, and

dorothy. i want you to tell the story about robin's death. it impacted both parents. >> robin was a little over two years old and woke up one morning. at this point, they were in texas. she said to barbara, i think i will stay in bed or maybe i will go out on the lawn and look at the clouds. that raised red flags. her daughter was very active. she took her daughter to the pediatrician and the pediatrician asked barbara and george to come back a little bit later that day. she said to them, your daughter has leukemia.

george bush said, what does that mean? at that point, who knew what it was? the doctor says it means she will not live very long. the doctor's recommendation was that robin be allowed to go home and enjoy things. one of george bush's relatives was a doctor in new york and robin was taken there to try some different treatment modalities to deal with the leukemia. they prolonged her life a little bit. >> they still talk about her today. the emotion is very visible. >> president bush spent his entire life writing letters. the most painful letters we have

in the archive are him writing about his daughter, talking about the pain, the thing that is missing. we do need a little girl in our lives. >> they did manage to recover to some degree and they had a big and bustling family. this next clip, barbara bush talks about her role as a parent. >> you have been referred to by some family members as the enforcer. >> i am not sure i am thrilled with laura saying that. i deserve it. george is so -- anything they do is all right. someone has to be sure the standards are kept. he leads by example, i lead by

denying some things. i am the enforcer, no question about it. do i like that role? no. >> any comments? >> her husband always called her miss frank. she has had his back all of her family members all these many years. if someone was critical, she was going to respond. there was a story that a reporter once told me that if you wrote something negative about bill clinton, maybe the clintons would forgive you and let you write another story. if you said something negative about george h.w. bush, you were done until the next administration.

>> what aspects of mrs. bush's personality might be seen in her son? >> both of them have long memories. barbara bush does not let go of criticism very easily and i am not sure that george walker bush does either. >> a similar question. are there any passions that a young barbara passed on to her children? >> to understand barbara bush, you need to appreciate that she was a product of her time. the passion was the fact that she had devoted her life to them, to raising a family and to being a good and loyal wife to her husband over the course of his varied careers.

he was an absentee father for many years because he was on the road as a salesman, and as a politician. she was there every night. for george w. bush, it formed a real bond between the two of them. >> some statistics, by the time they made it to the white house, they had been married for 43 years and had lived in 29 different houses in 17 cities. dave murdock wants to know, rumor has it that barbara's hair turned white after robin's death. >> i believe that is true. >> she took the death very deeply.

she went through a period of depression and it was only after she was so sad for so many months that she heard george outside saying to a young friend, i cannot come out and play today because i have to take care of my mother. she realized that was too much burden to put on a little boy. >> leroy is watching us in kentucky. >> did the bush family go by the scriptures? >> we do have a clip where barbara bush talks about her faith. were they church people? >> they always had very strong faith. i cannot really attest to how much church attendance was part of their lives, but i believe it

was considerable. >> they did go to church. president bush did give one speech about his own spirituality. i am a person of faith, but i am an episcopalian and we do not talk about these things. >> they moved to texas and into california for the oil business. how did they make the transition to politics? >> they came back to texas and they had a great deal of success. they moved to houston. george bush was asked to consider running for harris county republican chairman. that was his first campaign.

she really enjoyed it. she felt very competitive and they won that race. 189 precincts and they visited every one. >> we should also note that about that same time, george's father was involved in politics. >> he was a senator for the state of connecticut. one of dwight eisenhower's favorite golfing buddies. the senior bush was very competitive. eisenhower said, i like playing with him because he is one of the only people who would not let me win. when you're on the athletic field, or in any arena, you are there to win.

>> to the national stage, how'd that happen? >> there were two terms in congress. a senate try that did not work. two terms in congress. another try for the senate that did not work. and then there was -- mr. bush was asked to be republican national committee chairman during watergate. >> between that time, he was united nations ambassador. he is coming from texas, a texas that is transforming itself. when he runs in 1964, he is hopeful of winning, but no

republican was going to win in 1964. richard nixon encourages him in 1970 to run again. he thinks he is going to run the exact same campaign portraying his incumbent as a liberal. a terrible thing happened. a more conservative man at the democratic nomination. his entire strategy went out in the wash. this is still a democratic state. texas will always take the democrat. that has changed, of course. richard nixon tells him, i will take care of you and you can become a united nations ambassador. >> where was his foreign policy

at that point? >> he did not have any. he would be the first one to admit it. this is one of the reasons nixon chose him. ultimately, what nixon and henry kissinger wanted was somebody who would be loyal. the less the person knew the better. he was very good at that. he was very loyal. he liked being with other diplomats. he did something very unusual. his predecessors gave him advice before he showed up. you are the ambassador from the most powerful country in the world, let them come to you. he said, i will go visit other people. he went to all of the different nations in their offices. something an american ambassador

had never done before. >> barbara bush enjoyed those u.n. years. >> she had not gone outside the country. her first time going outside the country was when they were in china. in new york, they had a suite in the waldorf towers where they entertained. they entertained constantly. for both of them, there was an understanding, comprehension of the importance of personal diplomacy. >> let's get the sequencing right. first, there was the u.n. position. >> head of the republican national committee. this was during watergate.

he has the unenviable job of going out every day and defending the president. he feels it is his duty. no matter what. he refers to this period as being in the eye of the storm. >> with the rnc position being a social one, this town was so full of tension. >> she wondered how he was soldiering on. mr. bush has to go to president nixon and say to him, it looks like most hope is lost.

>> our next questioner is from quincy, massachusetts. are you there? >> hello? i am in quincy, massachusetts, the birthplace of john adams. i have a question and a comment. you mentioned earlier that mrs. bush is the only first lady after abigail adams who was the mother of a president. is it also true that she is the only first lady after abigail adams who was the wife of a president and a vice president? >> pat nixon.

>> but not the mother of a president. thank you for your call. from watergate, chief of the republican party, to china. >> this is a great story. watergate occurs. president nixon resigns. george bush is considered very strongly to be one of the potential vice presidential picks for gerald ford. you have been a loyal soldier and i would like to get all of the people involved in watergate out of the limelight. what would you like to do? where would you like to go? i can offer you paris, london.

george bush says, i would like to go to china. gerald ford says, would you like to go to london or paris? bush says, china is going to be the future. it is an exciting place. this is really key. china is a lot cheaper than london or paris. the ambassador is expected to supplement the social budget. george bush had five kids to put through college. he wanted to go somewhere that was a little bit affordable. how wonderful it was to live in a place that was so inexpensive. >> barbara bush loved china. she said it was her favorite place to be. the kids were not there. >> but the dog went with them.

>> she had george bush to herself. the two of them took advantage of the many possibilities that china offered. they learn to speak some chinese. they were able to enjoy going out into the countryside. we did not have a full consulate there. >> we did not establish relations until 1979. it was an unofficial-official post. >> there with a little more freedom that came with that. she was very unhappy when they had to leave. >> it seems like it was on the cusp of change. >> it was a world away. no telephone connection that was reliable. you could feel like you were getting away from it all. he felt after watergate that he was exhausted.

he needed a sabbatical. he would say, the phone does not ring on my desk. it was dark at night. it is not the vibrant and exciting-smog filled beijing that we know today. >> barbara bush must've been quite of interest to the chinese. a woman with white hair. not very many westerners. did she write about that experience? >> she wrote some columns for newspapers that were sent home. she found so many things to be unique about the experience. >> barbara bush was a scrapbook and the collections have catalogued all of these. we will visit the bush library next.

>> mrs. bush began scrapbooking shortly after she and george bush became engaged. it is a hobby that she continued throughout george bush's entire family career. over a hundred in the collection. they go throughout his time in congress, his time at the united nations, the rnc, china. president bush at the rnc. when ford became president, he asked him where he would like to go. he had just reopened our relationship with china. president bush told president

ford that he would like to go to china. there was no u.s. ambassador to china, only a u.s. liaison. no huge staff, like a typical u.s. embassy. this was just a u.s. liaison office. they were there for about a year. they got out among the public. he was going to get out and they did get out. they got out on their bicycles and bicycled around beijing. enamored themselves with the chinese people and the public, president bush took chinese lessons and was able to learn enough chinese to carry on conversations.

they would invite people over to play tennis. mrs. bush has hundreds of photos that she took of her travels around china. she has often said that of all the jobs president bush had during his career, this is one of her most favorite because they did get to spend so much time together because of the fact there was no staff. it was the two of them. >> from all of the intriguing china, the next stop was back in washington at the cia. these were more challenging years for barbara bush. >> she was not happy to return to washington, particularly not for her husband to become the

director of the cia. it meant that he could not tell her anything that was going on in his workplace. this was a relationship where the two of them had discussed everything. the kids were gone. the beginning of the women's liberation movement was starting and barbara bush plunged into depression. those were difficult times for her. her husband suggested that she get professional help, but perhaps with yankee self-reliance, she felt that she could handle it. if someone says to her, i am depressed, she says, i'm sorry to hear that, get help. she has come full circle.

>> i would like to share a story. i worked at a banquet facility in connecticut and barbara bush came to connecticut for the governor. they allowed two children to come from each class. she got out of the suv herself, went over to the children. they were so excited to be in the presence of her. a little girl threw up. barbara bush turned around pick the child up and she comforted the girl, she kissed the girl.

she told her it was all right. she continued on her day. she was extremely gracious. >> thank you very much for sharing the story. >> she became a very good campaigner. she worked a crowd very well. that action with that young girl would not have surprised me at all. >> i have two statements to make. i am a democrat and out of all of the presidents' wives, barbara bush is one that i respected greatly for her frankness. i had a great respect for her

husband, although i did not vote for him. what he did in the gulf war by organizing and getting out. when he was confronted, and i do not agree with what clinton did, he was confronted. i am not getting into that. i was wondering what barbara's position in reference to the clinton affair. >> do we know? >> it occurred during the 1992 presidential campaign. she tried not to talk about it. she would say to the press, aren't there other things you can talk about? this is speculation.

she tried to stay above it. >> we have to get back into presidential politics. 1980, a highly competitive year. would you tell us about their decision to run for the white house? how they joined the ticket with the reagans? >> i do not think it was much of a decision. he is telling visitors that he intends to run for the white house as early as china. he wanted to stay at the cia after president carter took over. he is laying the groundwork for his ultimate campaign. he does surprisingly well against ronald reagan. ronald reagan was suspected to

win the nomination in 1980, but george bush hits the ground running and takes iowa. at that point, the reagans steamrolled them. george bush goes to the republican convention thinking that was it. reagan comes up with a very unusual plan that he will bring back gerald ford and they would be copresidents. that was never going to work. reagan turned to george bush and offered him the ticket. >> what was her role during the 1980 campaign? >> she was someone who listened to her husband speeches and reacted.

>> did she campaign herself? >> absolutely. this is the first time we hear about literacy interest and project because she says if we go to the white house, my focus is going to be on people learning how to read. >> where did that come from? >> one of the bush's sons was dyslexic. there was not a lot known about it. barbara worked with him, hired tutors, and helped him to learn to read. many people believe that it was personal interest that sparked her activity. she said that that was not true. instead, it came from her own love of reading and the fact that she had these wonderful memories of childhood.

her family all reading together. she believed parents were first teachers. maybe it falls somewhere right in the center. >> next up is michael watching us in washington, d.c. >> did barbara bush stay friends with nancy reagan? did she have any of the first ladies back to the white house? >> they were on the ticket together, but most of your readings suggest it was not the warmest of relationships. >> they were very adamant that they wanted to be friends with the reagans. making friends and social connections by melding politics and friendship. the reagans were a very isolated couple.

they liked each other's company and not a lot of other people. they never reciprocated the overtures. especially nancy and mrs. bush. >> they were only invited to the family quarters a few times. they were certainly at the white house many times. there was a level of tension between the two of them. >> what about between the first and second ladies? >> i think they worked pretty well together. they were working towards the same goal. they also have very divergent interests. nancy reagan was talking about anti-drug measures. barbara bush was focusing on literacy.

>> besides family, did she rely on anyone special? >> she did count on lee atwater who had been the head of the republican national committee for a while and was the chairman of the republican national committee when george bush ran for president in 1980. he was a confidant. i'm trying to think if she had others. she has a network of good friends and relied on those people as well. >> john henry has this question -- can you talk about the whereabouts on the day he almost assumed the presidency? the attempted assassination?

>> this helps solidify his relationship with president reagan. vice president bush was back in texas when reagan was shot and got on a plane and flew back. the communication technology was not as good. air force 2 had no way to directly communicate with the ground. president bush did not know entirely what had happened to president reagan. by the time he landed at andrews air force base, it was clear the president survived the shooting and was in surgery. he went to the white house, but made an important distinction and decision. i will not take a helicopter to the white house because only the president lands on the south lawn. i will take my limo and drive up that way as the vice president would.

at the very moment alexander haig is running around the white house saying, i am in charge, and offending nancy reagan, the vice president bush was being the more respectful man of the president. this left a lasting impression on reagan. >> what was mrs. bush's experience like during the aftermath of the assassination attempt? >> there is not much written about it. >> we will move on. >> what was barbara bush's opinion of the clintons during the 1992 campaign? i was in high school back then.

it was such a dramatic shift in first ladies. it reminded me of mamie eisenhower and jacqueline kennedy. >> barbara bush had trouble understanding how anyone could elect bill clinton. she felt her husband deserved reelection and along came the governor of arkansas. she could not understand how people would elect him. as far as hillary clinton went, she thought she was bright. she thought she was sharp. barbara bush did not know how to deal with her because she was someone different. there was a certain level of discomfort with both of them.

>> the difference is crucial because there is a cultural shift at this time. barbara bush was from a generation where a traditional woman's role was to stay home and raise the kids and support her husband's career. hillary clinton did not come from that model. barbara bush waded into this transformation in american society when it became a politicized issue. being confronted with a woman who had taken other choices. it left the two of them at odds ideologically. >> 1988 campaign, highly competitive. it was a very difficult campaign.

the bush campaign -- some history books suggest that barbara bush was very much involved and supportive in the strategy. >> there are sources that say both she and george w. bush had gone to george h.w. bush and said, if you do not toughen up, you will not win this race. go ahead with the willie horton ad. >> ultimately successful. we are doing this program live on the 20th of january, 2014.

today is the 25th anniversary of the bushs coming into the white house. we have a still of the important things that happened during those years in the white house. they include his no new taxes pledge, the savings and loan crisis. of course, the first iraq war, known as desert storm, tiananmen square happened during that time. the end of the cold war happened during the bush years. what was happening domestically? >> a lot of social upheaval. jeffrey alluded to it with the changes in society and the role of women. hillary clinton becomes the

first lady later. she had gone to graduate school. a very different time. >> did barbara bush get involved in any of the debates over the changing in society? abortion, gays, gender equality? >> she stayed away from the abortion issue. many years later, in a televised interview, she came forth and pretty much came out and said she has been pro-choice all along. she stayed away from it. when george bush became the vice presidential candidate, barbara and george had had to take a few steps back from their positions with regard to family planning.

she felt that gays should have rights. she was sympathetic to what was happening with the aids holocaust. she was not verbal about it. she was talking about it, but participation was muted. >> i do not think we should let her role in the aids crisis go unmentioned. she did a dramatic thing, she went to an aids orphanage and held an aids baby. the picture of the first lady holding an infant with aids quite shocking. people thought people with aids should be shunned.

this human loving moment for her of holding a baby, holding somebody who needed help, it really helps people understand better that aids was not just a death warrant, not something that people needed to be shunned for. >> i am in florida. >> welcome to the program. what is your question? >> i had recalled when barbara bush had attended ryan white's funeral. i do recall that she put candles in the window of the white house. i was wondering if you could explain to me why they did not

visit. >> thank you for your call. >> i think it was a political decision. it was the first few weeks of the administration. i am not sure if they knew what their position was yet. she felt strongly about showing some support and that led to her action putting the candle in the windows. the very symbolic act of going to mother's place and holding the aids baby at a time when people were not sure about the transmission of the disease. >> she was always very good at making solid political statements quietly. holding a baby, putting a candle in the window. her rationale of explaining that

she was pro-choice was that she was not in favor of abortion, but she thought it was something that should be between a mother and a father and a doctor. she was keen to set boundaries to where the government should intervene and she wanted to take a moral stance without interfering in her husband's career. >> we are talking about domestic issues. since today is martin luther king day in the united states, can you ask if barbara dealt with any race issues? >> not to my knowledge. >> ok. next is dennis in wisconsin. >> how are you? thank you so much for having this series.

during the 1980 campaign, i had a political radio show in california and i got to interview george and barbara bush. i asked her what her relationship was with the reagans. she said they were friends, good friends. what was their relationship once they got into the vice presidency? did she encourage her kids to go into politics? >> we covered this a little bit earlier. they had a cordial relationship, but not a warm relationship. it was a working relationship. i think george bush and ronald reagan were closer than nancy reagan and barbara bush. barbara bush did not recommend that her children go into politics. when george w. bush came to his parents and told them he was going to run for the

governorship of texas, barbara tried to talk him out of it. the same thing happened when he decided to make a run for the presidency. i think we will discuss barbara has been not a particular fan of jeb running in 2016. >> barbara bush became the public face of the administration. she spent a lot of time on the road. was that time spent talking about literacy? how did she use her time on the road? >> she becomes more popular in terms of public perception. her political role increases as her popularity does as well. >> what was the source of her popularity? >> i think people could relate to her.

that looks like somebody i know. there is a wonderful advertisement for a furniture sale where someone says, get nancy reagan furniture at barbara bush prices. barbara bush was a rich woman. she had this image of being the average woman. >> people felt they could sit down and have a cup of coffee with her. this was either an innate political fact or innate in herself. said she needed to lose weight and die her hair. loseaid you cannot make me weight or die my hair. the public responded to that. what was the dynamic with that? >> people could relate to her

because she was not a size to like nancy reagan. but maybed nicely, not in the same high style. she just seemed like someone you could talk to. she also had the kind of demeanor, and i think that worked well. >> and speak frankly, as well. there is the wonderful incident where her husband does not like broccoli, and this becomes an issue. consequently, broccoli growers of america send several hundred pounds around washington, but also to the white house. she says, that is a wonderful gift. that is very nice. he is not going to eat it. >> not without controversy, you had several pages. -- several pages in your

biography talking about her invitation to speak at wellesley college. what was the source of controversy? >> she was invited to be speaker in june of 1990. a few weeks after she accepted, 150 of the seniors who are graduating sent a petition saying they felt she was an inappropriate speaker because anything she had achieved in life was because of who she was married to. there was a short time when mrs. bush thought this was not a great idea. she sort of finessed it and said, i was 21 once myself, and i question things. she let them know she was going to give the speech. she invited the wife of premier gorbachev, who would be visiting at the same time, and the two of them went up to wellesley. >> we have a clip of her address to the right awaiting class of

at wellesley class that year. >> now i know. your first choice was alice walker. i know. known for the color purple. instead you got me. known for the color of my hair. for over 50 years it was said the winner would be the first to get married. now they say the winner will be the first to become a ceo, but both of those stereotypes show too little for those who want to know where the mermaids stand. [applause]

i want to offer a new one. the winner of the race will be the first to recognize her dream, not society's dream. her own personal dream. [applause] who knows? there might be someone who may one day follow in my footsteps. preside in the white house as the president's spouse. i wish him well. [applause] >> i don't want to spend too much time on this, but in your book you wrote about how this is classic barbara bush. she won over the crowd, but it was somewhat of a missed opportunity.

>> i think she is a chance to raise some other issues in that speech, and certainly some things are important. reading to your children, establishing personal relationships, but possibly she could have gone further. she certainly had the audience and the interest. her speech and the comments are on page one the next morning. >> maria is in miami and on the air. how are you? >> i currently work with the barbara bush foundation, so aside from literacy, what would you say her biggest legacy was? >> what is the barbara bush foundation do? does it remote literacy? -- promote literacy? >> it fund literacy all over the country. >> is there something to her legacy in addition? >> she would say not only does

she have two sons who went into politics, but she ducked about -- talks about all of her children, and george bush famously said, you'd are doing something right because the kids keep coming home. she looks at them as her life's work, and their accomplishments are her accomplishments. >> let's listen to the interview she gave us talking about her interest in literacy. >> because i know truthfully that every single problem in america would be better if more people could read, write, and comprehend. i just know that. we would be able to compete with the rest of the world. we wouldn't have these children committing crimes because the families don't have jobs. they don't have jobs because they can't read. they can't write. they don't understand.

that was such an easy project to pick. i admit it took half a year to pick it, because i always volunteered in hospitals, but there is no question in my mind. i think we are coming to that conclusion. we have got to educate our children, and we have got to educate their parents. it is not just a whim. it is a necessity if we're going to compete in this world. >> one of the avenues during the white house years, she wrote a book about her beloved dog millie. that book generated over one million dollars for charity. it led to the literacy act. how important was that? >> it is tremendously important. it helps fund programs that were important not only for schools but adult literacy programs and helping people who would otherwise go through their

entire life without this crucial skill. >> you had a point you wanted to make about literacy? >> about her legacy. she encouraged volunteerism. she was such an advocate for it. i think she would say she encouraged the generation of people to go into public service, than she would have been successful. >> you mentioned the broccoli. we have a clip to play. to show how the relationship with the press sometimes seems focused on things that do not become important, let's watch. >> to help focus attention on the need of every american being literate. >> don't do think it is setting a bad example for the children?

>> tell them to eat broccoli. >> in addition to the 10,000 pound it is going to be donated to the people in need in the washington area, we're also giving several boxes of the product for use in the white house, along with some very good new recipes, which you might use, which you just might convince the president to take the plunge into the world of broccoli. >> i am going to be honest. the president is never going to eat broccoli. if i had done it the other day i might have spoken to him first. >> of the student of the white house, what is your reaction when the press corps gets caught up in these stories? >> this is what people want to know about. they are not only non-stories

because the press is looking for something to write about that because people want to know what is going on behind the scenes, and it really gives an insight into the human beings. these people do have ups and downs. they have debts and their family. they have marriages. they have birth and their family. -- in their family. human interest can trump what the policy maker is really trying to say, which is, let's focus on something we can change. not what is just interesting. >> from a family dynamic the bush white house was always filled with children and grandchildren and great grandchildren. it was really a family oriented place. occasionally there were stories. some of the viewers remember rumors of the president having

an affair with someone named denna for fitzgerald. we have gotten several tweets about it. i am wondering how that played out for the couple, in particular, the first lady. >> jennifer fitzgerald had been an assistant to george bush when he was in china, and she was also an executive assistant when he was vice president. rumors did circulate that possibly there was an affair going on between the two of them. in my own research i found two possibilities. i think i am going to him down on one a little more strongly than the other, and that is jennifer fitzgerald played the role of office wife. she was the kind of woman found in the upper echelons of corporate america or maybe corporations around the world

who did some of the dirty work for the boss and made some it may be personnel decisions he didn't want to have to step into, and then there is the possibility maybe there was an affair. the historians i have spoken to feel that after the many years there is no absolute proof of it, and therefore, i would say i had many others would probably concur with the image of jennifer as office wife more than anything else. >> also during the white house years mrs. bush got diagnosed with a thyroid problem, and the president himself was diagnosed with a similar affliction and the first dog. so much so that the government actually did testing of the water inside the white house and at camp david. what do you know about that? >> it is very unusual for people to develop this autoimmune disease at the same time, two people and the dog to get it.

president bush joked that we would not have that problem if we stop drinking out of the dog's bowl. they tested everything. they tried to figure out why this could be. no one was able to determine any particular environment a link as to why this happened. it did affect the president in his last year in office because he had lost weight. some of his aides have commented as he went forward into his second bid for the white house in 92, he didn't seem to have the energy. that is mostly because of the medication he was taking to deal with the affliction. >> we have talked about the 1992 campaign. there was another factor with ross perot getting into the race and ultimately having a double- digit showing. how did that dynamic change the race? this was bush's reaction to having a fellow texan get into

the race? what can you tell us about that? >> she was annoyed. she thought her husband had been a superb president, and she had already started to focus on bill clinton, and then perot said he was going to enter the race because he didn't think either candidate was particularly good. she was annoyed by it. then that annoyance really moved to concern. >> her personal popularity didn't translate into enough votes for george bush. why not? >> both perot and clinton had a singular line of attack against president bush, and that was he was more focused on foreign affairs than the mastech. i got to tell you for the most part the president was concerned about foreign affairs. there was a lot going on at the time. there was the berlin wall, tiananmen square. the president even rights, i

really do like foreign affairs better than domestic. clinton said we are going to focus on the economy. ross perot said we are going to focus on the budget. both of which opened a flank for the president's reelection, and i think ultimately it did him in. >> how do they use the white house to entertain to achieve their goals? >> i think they use it effectively. they are considered to be tremendous hosts and hostesses. they already entered a time when decisions had to be made about which state dinners to hold, but apparently, whatever they chose, they chose wisely. >> in our 15 minutes left we have to move on to post white house. the question from one of our viewers sets the stage.

how did mrs. bush switchgears in to post white house life? this is from brian watkins. >> part of her was really relieved. she wouldn't have been unhappy if they had left politics in 1980 when he lost the republican nomination to ronald reagan, but i think she slipped into it very gracefully. she wrote her autobiography, her first. she was enjoying seeing her family and the children. they were back in texas. she was back with friends and on more familiar ground, and then george w. bush decided he was going to run for governor. they were back in it again.

but she also stayed on the election circuit and made some money. >> she did. >> she was bringing in some income. when did they begin work on the library? >> immediately. most administrations like to work on them in the second turn. they began working on most immediately after losing their reelection bid, and this really became one of the focal points for the post presidency is a place where they felt comfortable. he is often asked why he chose there instead of bl. he said, -- instead of yale. he said, would you want to go to a place where people having you

in effigy? this didn't happen in texas. you would see them at games. you would see them walking around. it is really a place they came to frequently. >> lynn, what is your question? >> the question is we are on dr. king's anniversary of his birth. the bushes were big opponents of dr. kings birthday celebration. i wonder if you want to talk about the fact that reagan didn't want to sign the legislation, but the bushes were in favor of it and were there throughout the presidency, even the vice presidency, showing up at the king center. i want to talk about the fact that they were involved in commemorating dr. king. >> thanks very much. >> president bush came up in texas politics at a time when segregation was a crucial issue, but he was not from texas.

this is something his critics would never let him forget. he was from connecticut and had a different sense of racial politics and racial morality than many of his fellow southern republicans at the time, and he famously as a congressman went off to vietnam and came back and began working for equal housing legislation, which is really a third rail for texas politics at the time. he simply said, i saw black men and brown men and white men fighting. how could that change when they come home? >> the eldest son became involved in politics. he made it to the white house in the year 2000, and we have a clip of george w. bush talking about this historic role barbara assumed as being both wife of a president and the mother of a president. let's listen.

this is from 2001. >> as you can tell, my dad has been calling me 43. i call him 41. it is a shorthand we have in our family. we have a nickname for mother as well. to show you where she stands in the power structure, we call her number one. [applause] so i am going to turn the stage back to number one and then give remarks of my own. it is great to be back in houston and to return wearing the proudest title ever given to me, son of barbara and george bush. >> will you comment about her relationship with the younger bushes when they were in the

white house, how they approached those eight years? >> she tried to maintain lines of communication, and she always thought one of the great achievements was the children always came home. i think she really worked to try to make sure the children -- that things were as normal as they could be. >> did she eventually get involved in politics herself? for example, sarah palin. what has been happening politically? >> she is more willing than ever to speak her mind. she was always interested in speaking her mind. i think she feels there is very little filter she needs.

i suspect she is uncomfortable, and one reason is it is very hard to imagine george bush senior getting elected by today's republican party. it is very difficult to imagine him even thinking of himself as a republican. that has caused a lot of discomfort among modern republican circles. >> someone wrote, i would like to know about the relationship with the clintons. are they friendly? >> they are friendly. particularly, clinton and h w bush are good buddies. they have partnered on a number of projects, but certainly, the relationship between barbara bush and hillary clinton has seem to be cordial. they have shown up at some of the same meetings together. it is the polar opposite of

1992. >> someone asked earlier about her faith. we promised we would talk about that. here is a recent interview talking about the role of faith in her life. >> in your memoir you talk about faith, family, and friends. what about your faith? >> it is very private, and i am a huge believer in loving god. george and i pray every night out loud. i have no fear of death, which is a huge comfort, because we are getting darn close, and i don't have a fear of death for my precious george or for myself, as i know there is a

great god, and i am not worried about that. i don't like it for young people, but i know we will see robin again, one way or another, and our families. i have no fear in death. i have a great faith. it sounds so arrogant. >> why? >> i do have a faith in god. i don't question it. >> mrs. bush is 88 years old. how do she and the president's been their time? >> they spend about half the year in houston and half the year in kennebunkport. president bush was just at a duke basketball game over the weekend.

to see them as people who enjoy their life. >> you are on the air. >> susan, i haven't heard any mention of vice president dan quayle. i was wondering, what contribution if any comments the first lady and the president had involving the election. keep up the good work. >> dan quayle and marilyn quayle. >> i think of that as a place where we see a real tension. he is above all things a gentle man and wouldn't want to say ill things about people who work with him and for him, but i think the president has alluded to this from time to time -- would agree that is not a

helpful choice. there is a lot of discussion of whether quayle should be dumped from the campaign in 1992. he was not bringing anything. president bush said, that would be the wrong thing to do, especially as a former vice president. this was an area he didn't want to revisit while he was in the presidency. historians look back and have to shake your head a little bit over that decision. >> paul from boston, you are on. >> i would like to know, is there a public school named after barbara bush? >> thank you very much. is there one in kennebunkport? >> if not there, there are other schools. >> what does kennebunkport mean for the family? >> it is tallest, it is quiet. it is family. it has a long history going back

to bush's grandparents. they watched their children grow up their and their grandchildren and now there are a few great- grandchildren and another on the way. it is really the center of perhaps the bush universe. >> what has been the continuing legacy for the family in terms of policy? how about the next generation, the grandchildren's generation? >> i think jeb's son is running for office. i don't know that i have heard much about the other bush grandchildren, but stay tuned. >> next is tom, who is in philadelphia. tom, you are on.

welcome to our discussion about barbara bush. >> good evening. i would like to say the clintons and the bushes, i find them to be -- i am a bipartisan person. the clintons and the bushes i believe they are very close friends. for the last 14 or 15 years i watched from behind the scenes, and i find them to be very close friends, so when the library opened, his wife actually said, my husband george and bill had more conversations on the telephone in the second part of his election. that turned out to be very true. it is a shame that more reporters don't say the truth today, which it is. >> that is a crucial thing about understanding the presidency more broadly in that this is a job unlike any other. the pressures of this job are multiplied beyond which many people could fathom.

people who have experienced that pressure know what it is like to be in the room. there is only a small handful of men alive today who know what it is like to live in the white house and sent troops into combat and deal with congress and deal with the entire attitude of the nation, and they consult with each other. they talk with each other. he know what it is like, and they can confide in each other and received advice from each other. they know how to keep quiet as well. >> we have a little bit of time left, but i want to put both of your books on screen and talk a little bit about what we would learn from barbara bush tonight that is in your book. >> i think she is an american classic.

she is someone who is still tremendously possible, and she is wise, and she is smart, and she brought that commonsense approach to the white house. i think she is also -- as many of us, has been through a great deal. the death of a child and the many losses of living all over the country. i think what we would learn from her is the importance of flexibility, and she is someone to be admired. >> this is jeffrey's book. you are working on another. what is that? >> i am working on a study of george bush at the end of the cold war. i would argue more happened during the four years in office and he was confronted with more difficult decisions than any other president with the possible exception of franklin roosevelt during the height of world war ii, and these are issues that look similar in

retro spec. the end of the cold war looks determined, and the gulf war seems accomplished. at the time we didn't know how those were going to turn out. president bush adopted a strategy of hippocratic diplomacy. you no harm. behind the scenes the entire time was barbara bush, whom in a time of great turmoil spent every day trying to calm international tensions. she was behind the scenes trying to keep him calm. >> and this has changed or expanded the role of first lady. would you say she did in any way? >> i think she solidified it. i think she did a marvelous job of establishing the presidency was about more than just the man. it was about family. she allowed the american people to see her family while having respectful distance. >> i want to say thanks to both of you.

>> we are going to close with barbara bush herself when we asked her the question of what she would like her legacy to be. you will hear the family theme come in strongly. thanks tonight, and thanks for your interesting questions and comments. here is barbara bush on her legacy. >> i hope it will be that her children are her legacy and her grandchildren and now great- grandchildren. i hope family. family is crucial, and i would like to see the american family, back strong. we had a great family. my dad said to me once, there are only three things you can give your children. you can give them the best education. that doesn't mean stanford or

yale or princeton. that means just the best education you could find. and to set a good example, that is very important. and all of the love in the world. i hope we have given that to our children. i know george w -- i heard him say several times his dad has given him unconditional love. that is true. all of this baloney about george competing with his father, it's just ridiculous. they are devoted to each other, and there was never any competition, and my george is putty in their hands, i must confess, but i think they feel loved, and i hope if i have a legacy other than being the enforcer that it would be that i raised a great family along with george. [captioning performed by

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