respect the culture of the world leader who you are entertaining. it was really fun to work on those and make all of those plans. he always did a tasting of the food that the chef had proposed. we would ask members of congress to come to the tasting and tell them they were guinea pigs for the state dinner they were hosting. of course, they would be very forthright and say, i do not think you should do this. this is not that tasty. they would be more forthcoming than our friends would be, who would just say, that is great, whatever you've got. that was fun, really. we would spread it out over a number of nights to do tastings and talk about what we would have. of course, we would try to get entertainment that represented the united states in a wonderful way, like the new orleans jazz

band that we invited to one of them. that was to show the heads of what supported us and what american music was important to us. we would usually travel the day after the state visit with the head of state. our very first state dinner was september 6, 2001. it was right before september 11 and it was with mexico, president fox and martin fox. relationship we expected to spend the most time on. we had a long border with mexico and it was of particular interest to us, all of the border issues. ie next day, marta fox and traveled to chicago. andent to a show

mexican-american art that was at the museum. we invited all of the artists to a luncheon afterwards. which was interesting, this chance to be able to show both art, but thatcan originated in her country, in mexico, to the first lady. jimenez, a favorite of mine, traveled to us and came to the state dinner. he could not come to the museum because he had worked in a show. -- he came to the museum because he had worked in that show. i forgot where george took next day.fox the when the prime minister from japan came, he happened to have a gray glove for elvis presley. and we knew that. for our state gift, we gave him

his own jukebox it was built with elvis presley 45's. that. thrilled to get the next day, we took him to graceland and priscilla presley was waiting on the front porch to welcome the prime minister. we never forgot that. it was so much fun. we wore gold framed elvis presley sunglasses and ate at the rendezvous afterwards, the famous restaurant there and had a little elvis impersonating band that the prime minister singh with -- sang with. it was really fun. >> besides barbara bush, what other first ladies have you studied and have adapted their style or not adapted their style? >> you really do study all of the first ladies when you live there. you live with their decorating

choices, their furniture, the effects of their lives at the white house. certainly, in times that are tough, like hours after september 11, you think about the other families and how they coped with what was happening then. certainly, lincoln is the one you think about the most, the worst time in our countries history, when brother fought against brother and mary todd lincoln was very unhappy. her brothers fought for the confederacy and she wished them dead and they did die. and then they lost a child while they lived there as well. you can imagine what it was like for her to have those tragedies and you knew what it was like for him as well. time when ourat a

country was at war with itself. things that is comforting about living there with all of the history that you live with is that you see how we have overcome, in our country, the challenges that we face. you think about the long years and eleanor ii roosevelt and other times in our history and how difficult it was for people and how we overcame those challenges. so there is a certain comfort in is not that, while peace forever, neither is war and we will be able to overcome these types of terrorism. time passes and things change. i do think, in our country, that things get better. that is a reassuring idea while you are living there. >> you write in "spoken from the heart" about growing up in the

era of civil rights. what was that like for you? >> it was very involved, really, at least emotionally. 1968duated from college in and i had to teach. , an i got a job in dallas institution in austin in inner-city schools, because i wanted to work in inner-city schools, because i thought african-american children were being left out. that is what i did in houston. i was a predominantly african-american school, almost that ihildren -- a style taught was african-american. i felt that was one way i could be involved in the civil rights movement. i also grew up in a town in texas that named their new high school that was new when i started, named it robert e lee.

i remember thinking that that was not appropriate to it never occurred to me to go to the school board and say anything. i was a child, i thought. i did not think i had that. at the time, i discussed it with my mother and she thought there was one school board member who wanted to name it robert e. lee. all of the other school that we went to when we were in elementary school were named for texas heroes. ie, samilly -- bow houston, davy crockett, heroes of the alamo, really. the junior schools were named for the battles. , thelamo, san jacinto battles of the texas revolution that led to texas being a country, the republic of texas, for 10 years and finally being annexed to the united states. somehow, i did not think robert

e. lee fit in that group of texas heroes, but who knows. , that is what my school was named. and we were segregated. george washington carver was the name of the high school. reunion, myed the high school reunion at the white -- not kids, kids they were six years old by then, -- they were 60 years old by high school and george washington carver. that was the first time we met the students that were our age. you when youprise first became first lady at the platform you are given and the voice you had? >> i knew that intellectually because i had seen my mother in

law and the platform that she had to talk about literacy, which was her interest. johnson andady bird how she influenced me at home in texas because of her interest in native plants. until it really know it made the presidential radio address in the fall of 2001 after the terrorist attack to talk about the way women and children were treated by the taliban in afghanistan. >> good morning. i am laura bush. i am delivering this week's radio address to kick off a to focus on the brutality against women and children by the al qaeda terrorist network and regina supports in afghanistan -- and regime it supports in afghanistan. the people of afghanistan, especially women, are rejoicing. they know through hard experience what the rest of the

world is discovering, the riddle oppression -- brutal oppression of women is a singular goal of the terrorists. >> right after that, i did the radio address from our ranch and austin, where jenna was a freshman at the university of texas. jenna went shopping at a department store and the ladies who sold cosmetics said, thank you so much, mrs. bush. thank you for speaking for the women of afghanistan. >> not only because our hearts break for the women and children in afghanistan, but because in afghanistan, we see the world the terrorists would like to impose on the rest of us. all of us have an obligation to speak out. we may come from different backgrounds and faiths, but parents the world over love their children. we respect our mothers and sisters and daughters. fighting brutality against women and children is not the

expression of a specific culture. it is the acceptance of our common humanity. >> that is the first time i realized that people hurt me -- heard me and that what i said, people listen to. i knew from then on -- although, i think you never really know until maybe after you leave and see what the platform is. but lady bird johnson had that saying that she had a podium and she was going to use it. and she did. >> do you think you used yours? >> i hope so. i tried to use it. i talked a lot about the women in afghanistan and i still do. i am worried now. i was there three times when george was president. i would like to go again. we i am worried that once draw our troops down, that their

rights, which are fragile, will be jeopardized. issue, literacy. you started the national book festival september 8, 2001. >> that fall was when i felt like what i was working on was getting going. dinner fortate mexico and the first national book festival. i started the texas book festival when george was governor. i thought it was just natural to have a national book festival off the big national mall, and it still goes on and still draws lots of april and is still hugely popular. and is stillople hugely popular. that was the weekend before the tuesday morning of september 11. even on that morning, i was on my way to capitol hill to brief the senate education committee

on early childhood education. i hosted a summit on early childhood education that summer and i was going to brief the committee on early childhood education, when i was getting into the car and my secret service agent leaned over to me and said, a plane has just flown into the world trade center. we went ahead to the capital, got in the car. he just assumed as we started driving that it was some strange accident. by the time we got to the capital, we knew the second plane had hit and we knew what it was. , thejoined senator kennedy chairman of the senate education .ommittee in his office in just a few minutes, senator judd gregg from new hampshire join me. he was the minority chairman of the committee. the three of us sat in senator kennedy's office.

he talked the whole time and told stories about things that were in his office. he showed me and laughed. framed thatt he had his brother, jack, had written to his mother. he thought that was funny. i often wondered if that was his reaction to something as shocking and horrible, because that was the way he had to deal with it. of course, he had many shocks in his life. or if he thought i would fall apart and he thought that the way he could keep things going andto keep small talk talking and keeping things going. anyway, in a few minutes, i left and went to a secure location. how did you leave? >> the secret service came to get me and said, it is time to

-- at first, they wanted to take me back to the white house. they had to figure out where i should go because obviously, the people at the white house, the staff at the white house was getting word to run. people in my office who worked for me were kicking off their high heels and running from the white house. i know they expected to have glamorous, really interesting jobs at the white house. no one ever thought they would have to run from the white house like they did. anyway, the secret service came to get me and senator gregg and senator kennedy walked me out the door and then i drove to where i went with the secret , the building that had been reinforced after the terrorist attacks on our embassies.

after the oklahoma city bombing, a lot of the federal buildings had been reinforced and that one had been, so that is where i went and spent the day. >> have you talk to your husband -- had you talked to your husband? remember.t i have the laws to the day to remember, but i did talk to george once i got there and the girls, and of course, my mother was the one i really wanted to call. i wanted my mother to say everything is going to be all right. of course, i called her and said, everything is going to be all right. i wanted her to say, certainly. >> you had been first lady about seven months when 9/11 happened. could you describe how, here in dallas, 50 years ago, jfk was shot in the city. what do you remember about jackie kennedy? roberts in my class at e. lee high school.

i was in a philosophy class and you had to have certain scores and grades to be able to take. it was just one class that a history professor taught. us thatin and told president kennedy had been shot. i went home from lunch that day and i went home to where my parents were. i was with them then. after that, the funeral that followed, i remember just lying on the couch with my mother and that.nd we were watching i was amazed, really, at her strength. she was very young, really young. i think she was only 32, if i am not mistaken. she really had such strength. not only did she have the strength to be able to withstand it with such race and poise --

grace and poise, but she was also able to plan a state dinner after the most unexpected thing that could ever happen to a first lady, in a way. i think our whole country was so beautifully and so memorably land that i think it helped in a lot of ways, everyone in our country, as he watched. and she did too with her strength. >> did you find yourself becoming a role model or somebody that people look at after 9/11? >> i do not know that, really. i guess so. i get letters that said that from people. i did not expect to do that. like,ure it was just well, she did not expect to be a role model. you did not expect that people would watch you do that. you might expect that people would look at your clothes or

how you entertained. i did not think it occurred to first ladies that you would be a role model in that way, the grace you have, strength you have, to be able to handle and lived through in a way that gives other people strength, the shocks that come in our history. >> you write in "spoken from the heart" about a difficult period, november of 1963, and a loss of faith, your faith. why? >> i was in a car wreck that i wrote about extensively in my book. the whole time, i was in the .ospital not injured really i mean, i had a cut on my leg and a broken ankle. i was praying that the other person in the car would be ok and the other person in the car

was one of my best friends, which i did not know. i did not really recognize that at the time of the crash. his father came up. they lived just past where the corner where the car wreck was and i recognized his father, but i did not understand that that was mike that was there. because i prayed over and over for him to be ok and he was not, i thought, nobody listened. god was not listening. my prayer was not answered. i went through a very long time of not believing and not believing that prayers could be answered. time and a me a long lot of growing up to come back to faith. you recovered your faith? >> i have recovered my faith. my faith is very helpful to me in those years. george and me.

we lived in the white house. i cannot imagine living there without a strong faith. faith in the goodness of the lord and live. that was the quote that i used in the christmas card that first year. it was in the lectionary the weekend that we went. .veryone came the cabinet was there with us as well. they were all there that we can. chaplin, whodavid happened to be a methodist "i shall had chosen see the goodness of the lord in the land of the living." that was the little program for

camp david that we can. -- that weekend. so i use that for our bible verse in our first christmas card, because that is what i think we saw. we saw americans lined up to give of themselves by lining up to give blood after september 11. >> how do you think you grew or changed in the role of first lady after 9/11? >> i guess what happens to a lot of people is you grow just because you are strong. you already were strong. and i was and george is. i did not know that, maybe. i did not know the kind of emotional strength i had and physical, really. physical strength that i had, the stamina that i had that i knew george had, but i was not so sure i had. grew is theway i

way that i found out that i had that strength and that i could go on. not only go on, but go on and help any way i could, the people that were around me and the people that were affected, the families that lost somebody on september 11 or our whole country as we came to terms with the idea that we were vulnerable , that we could have this kind of attack that we did not expect. that was the shock for us. we never had anything on our homeland like that, except for pearl harbor. and that seemed remote to us because ite -- then was world war ii, a long time ago. that is the big adjustment for all of us in our country, to imagine that that could happen to us. >> you talked about stamina. were their days at the white house when you are so tired that

you wanted to quit, you wanted to say no more? >> no. there really were not many. there were days when i was physically and emotionally tired many of thoseter occasions, the times when we met with the families of the fallen, the troops who had died. we met them over and over for the whole time we lived in the white house. i never thought i wanted to quit. i wanted to thought quit. i know george did not either. also, we go to bed early. intuitively have known how to take care of our health. we love to go to bed early and get up early, we worked out. george exercises. we do all of the things that i think are what you need to do for emotional health as well as for your physical health.

>> did you work out in the white house? >> i had a trainer that came to the gym upstairs at the white house and my sister-in-law, margaret, came and worked out with me. at the very end, the last couple of years, i had a yoga instructor, and that is what i do now. >> you do yoga here in dallas? at a class? >> i have an instructor who comes to my house. >> makes it easier? >> yes. have been involved in education as an issue, no child left behind. has that been a successful program? >> i think it has been really successful. the important part is the it is really at civil rights issue. the kids who do get left behind are the ones who are in the poorest parts of town.

the ones whose parents do not speaking was. -- speak english. they are the ones that get shuffled through. that is why it is very important to know how every child is doing. that is the part that a lot of people complain about, the testing. but you have to have that. how else would you diagnose any problems? you would never go to your doctor and say you cannot do a test on me to find out what is the matter with me. you have to have accountability. forink it is very important school districts and teachers and principals and states who design the curriculum and the programs that they want their children to have in their state to realize that accountability is a very important part of it. one of the things you can tell if you do testing is which

schools are successful and which are not. a lot of times, you find out the ones that are not are the ones in the poorest parts of town. and you need to address that. school districts and parents need to be an advocate for their children and make sure that every single one is successful and every child in the united states gets a great education. it is our obligation as adults in the united states to make sure that every child does get a great education and we know it and we know all of the results, we are reading them right now about how american students are 20 biggest the economies in math and science. we need to change that. and we can change that. we can make sure that students get a really good education. how many hands did you shake as first lady? >> i do not know.

lots. how many pictures did i take? millions. >> you had a full-time photographer. all first ladies do. did you get used to having your picture snapped at all times? so. guess there were probably a million terrible pictures of me out there, but it is just all a part of it. it,really do get used to but you know all of those people very well. the photographers that traveled with me, i know them and i know their children and their lives. you aret so much like with strangers all the time. you are with people that you know very well, that you like, that you remain friends with. some of those people have come with us here and work at the bush institute and the bush center. i stay in touch with many others all around the country. when we just had the dedication of the bush library last april,

,lthough the first ladies staff on and off during those eight years, came and we had a big party for the first lady staff so i could see everybody and i actually have a book that one person made of all of the babies that had been born since 2001, since that first staff, all of the first lady children that they have had since i first met them. >> you also had two teenage family.d a large bush how do you keep the public and the private separate? >> upstairs at the white house is your private space, the private apartment. i did not bring furniture because i knew there was wonderful furniture to choose from to decorate with and use upstairs. i did bring one chest of

battles for sentimental reasons. their, -- we got to that was for sentimental reasons. there, -- andgot as soon as we got there, we went and picked out everything and tried them out in spots to see if you wanted to keep them at see if they wanted to be recovered and we got things recovered. money.s private money that goes in the white house historical association. it is a big foundation. it was started by jackie kennedy. it has raised money for the white house historical association. so that you are not spending government money when you recover a chair for the white house. floor,e second and third

all of the bedrooms, a lot of little bedrooms and the solarium that we all love. the sunroom that is up there. it is added maybe in 1927. that is where the girls would have parties. the first two rooms i did for the girls bedrooms. bedrooms right down the hall from the president's bedroom. other children would've used. clintonong to chelsea and little john kennedy and caroline kennedy had he used and glendon and lucy johnson had used. they were perfect for barbara and jenna. beds so theyuble can invite a girl so eight girls could stay in those suite of rooms. that happened a lot. they were freshmen in college.

they never really lifted their almond they stated their -- never really lived there, and they stayed there. their friends would come to visit or for weekends or holidays. renovations did you initiate at the white house? >> we worked on the lincoln bedroom which was so much fun and so interesting and i worked with the white house historical association advisory board which is art curators and furniture experts and wallpaper experts. historians. that is how i got to know bud. he is the director of the new african-american smithsonian oneum is going up right now the mall in washington. that's was really great to know

him like i did working on all of those rooms. i know he loved working on the lincoln bedroom. the lincoln bedroom when he lived at the white house was actually his office. until teddy roosevelt built the west wing which he just a dead to get out of the house -- which he just did to get out of the house because yet the wild kids upstairs, the president's office on the second floor at the far end of the hallway from the president's bedroom. when the lincoln a lifted their, the room -- lived there, the room was his office. the room he signed the emancipation proclamation and after truman restored, he moved all of the furniture associated with lincoln, the big bed. and the other pieces of furniture that mary todd lincoln had ordered. he moved them to that space which been lincoln's bedroom.

we redid it. we had a little square about this big of wallpaper that have been in the room when it was his office. we reproduce it. we knew we had the bill of sale of the carpet that had been bought at the time that lincoln lived there. we went to the same place in england which done in the carpet for him and we do not know for sure which of the patterns they had sold. we do not really have a picture of it. but we knew on the bill of sale, whichsaid ga which -- go the curator thought meant green and oak. we went and had that done. not know about the first lady and her role you think the american public should know? sees the first

lady and glamorous circumstances, state dinners and a beautiful down. a speech where the heads in suits are whatever. what they may not imagine looking at the white house from the outside is it is actually a very normal life upstairs on those two floors that are the white house residence. --st light is probably, i first ladies probably and i would lie on the couch and read books. my cats would curl up next to me . they great palladium the window associated with the west side of the white house. the one you see. it is wonderful to sick at the window and though -- it is wonderful to sit at the window and the late afternoon when i was waiting for george to come home from work. is a nice couch to lie on.

>> mrs. bush, there was a speech on april of2005 2005 you are well known for. as a price to everybody. how long was that in the planet -- in the planning? >> george always said he is delighted to come to these president nurse, baloney. [laughter] >> the famous dinnerware georgia said everybody comes in and make -- the famous dinnerware george to everybody comes in and makes fun of the president and he came and made fun of himself. he is very fine he. he has been very funny and everyone one of those corresponded dinners. -- he is very funny. dinner and gridiron alfalfa dinner and lots of dinners for the president's. he has to have a funny speech and make fun of himself. year, he said, i cannot,

with another joke. why don't you do it? >> did you say ok right away? >> ok. i knew i would work with the joke writers. it was funny and shocking to people. i remember i was sitting next to the president of the white house respondents who obviously did not know i was quick to spring that. georgia stands up -- george stats up and tries to make a lame joke and i jump up and say, no. when i did it, the people were sitting by me gasped. they were shocked. something was wrong that i was jumping up like that to the podium. it was fun. that is when i called myself a desperate housewife. roastody knows that is a

at that is what everybody at the white house correspondents dinners are like. make it for the president. the people from overseas were shocked. would we would travel overseas, some world leader would say, are you a desperate housewife? >> i am married to the president of the united states adheres our typical evening. [laughter] 9:00, mr. excitement is sound asleep. [laughter] it i am watching "desperate housewives." [laughter] [applause] with lynn cheney. [laughter] gentlemen, i am a desperate housewife. [laughter]

on thatf those women show think they are desperate, they ought to be with george. [laughter] >> you compare your mother in law to -- [laughter] >> exactly. you have to ask her. [laughter] >> you talked about the first lady being seen glamorous and etc., are we too obsessed with your hair and makeup and clothing? >> yes. for sure. i do not think to get around it. maybe what we've have a first gentleman -- maybe when we have a first gentleman. critique the way they look all the time. their choice in tie where their hairstyle or whatever. eight.be there wi what is your advice for the first gentleman? >> be quiet. it would be interesting when it happens with the first gentleman. i hope that will take on men's

health. you call this a parlor game. if you have disagreement on policy with the president, how'd you get that across or would you? >> i would not. i would tell him, the parlor game part is to find out, the press try to know, what did you think about it and how does that differ from your husband? my answer was always, i am not the one, you did not elect me. i do not have to tell you what i think about an issue. on the other hand, there's plenty of debate on all the issues. i do not have to be one of the people debating the president. and i think that is really the case, very few times do you see a spouse of the president, you know, making public

disagreements with the president. >> you do write your memoir before the election season, i talked to george about not making gay marriage a significant issue. >> i did. i did not tell anyone at the time. shouldn't the first lady receive a salary? >> i do not think so. there are plenty of perks, believe me. a chef. that was really great. i miss the chef. i do not think so. i think the interesting question really is not should they receive a salary but should they be a will to work for a salary at their job that they might have already happened. i think that is what will have you come to terms with. certainly, a first gentleman mike continue to work -- a

gentleman mike continue to work or whatever he did. that is really the question we should ask. should she have a career during those years her husband is president? in addition to serving as first lady. >> were you ready to leave washington? >> not really. i loved it. i loved living and the white house. it was a privilege. so interesting to live there. a history lesson every single day. it is so beautiful. you might not know this but the white house has a magnificent art collection. today with live with that kind of art, it was a pleasure. i loved that. on the other hand, you know that for years later, the term is up. there's a certain acceptance that comes with that that made me anticipate a normal life again.

and a life back in dallas where we had lived when george was elected governor. i started coming down here looking for houses to buy before we left the white house. i started to anticipate what to that house would be like and what it would be like to live there and furnished in all of the things i would like to do. and started think about building this. the presidential library. i invited all of the hats of the libraries -- heads of the libraries to camp david and not of them had ever been there. they do not know the president holds library they work in -- whose a library they work in. ,nly the most recent presidents did they actually know the president. had of the foundation heads ever been to camp david. i invited them to come to our camp to see what it was like. the first presidential library

as freckled roosevelt. he was the one who first used cap david. the first presidential library was franklin roosevelt. if they sought cap david and we had lunch -- if they saw camp david and we have lunch together and they see the lodge where you s, theyl of the meal will be forthcoming. i said to give me advice. they had a lot of advice. they talked about what you would need to do to get things in your archives. and how you can help nar. own and administer all of the papers of the president. youwhat you could do when are building the library to make sure you do not have to go back and retrofit because of the rules at nar. that was fun. it made below afford to building a working on that.

-- it made me look forward to building and working on this. the dean of yale architecture school and would pick our other architect who is the architect i -do ofent for the re pennsylvania avenue. it was closed when we moved in. it was already closed. when president clinton was president, we were getting ready to open back up when september 11 opened. -- weupus of a avenue knew that pennsylvania avenue would stay closed. i knew of a project he had worked on wellesley. i knew that is what i wanted to do on the grounds. i already started working each of those committees. the decide committee for the -- designed committee

for the library and the other directors and foundations members. i started to anticipate what the next part of my life would be like. i say in speeches that are now with our living the afterlife and the state george calls the promised land. that is what texas is to us. we love it here. it is great to be back home. >> your been very active in the library, and the answer to and getting started. what about when you are invited to speak or contribute to political cost? -- cause? >> i do speak. i am of the speaker circuit. i speak all over. i had a speech in germany last year. a lot of people from all parts of the world as well. i choose which groups to speak to. we are doing a really great job

in a speak to a lot of foundations of various types. this week i spoke in fort worth withgroup that does work abused and neglected children that were with the cps and other law enforcement to help children. and so i speak to all different types of groups that i have not really entered the political fray at all and i did host a romany. for ann that was private. it was not in the press. it was reported in the press that i had the luncheon is not a press event. both, as you know, he has chosen not to speak up politically because he does not want -- he does not think it is great for former presidents to

the choicesessing that they president is making. >> three final questions. africa. a choice you made to continue your activity. >> and that is right. through the bush institute we have chosen to work on the policy areas the most important to us when he was president. , the economy.ion george is working on a free market trying to promote free enterprise and a free-market economy. local health. startedief that georgia when he was president. he has a special program to support the men and women of the united states military and i am chairman of the women's initiative and we have done really terrific fellowship programs to bring women from arab spring's countries to the

united states to work on leadership skills and to be paired with an american woman that is in their same profession. with the idea of how you build a civil society that you needed to support a democracy. ideaserited all of the that support our democracy and ortitutions like free press independent judiciary. all of these countries do not have that. it takes a very long time to build those types of institutions that allow you to support a democracy and allow democracy to flourish. that is one of the things we are doing with the women's initiative. our global health initiative is pink ribbon, red ribbon. with added -- with added the treatment for cervical and breast cancer to the a's

platformthat -- aids that was launched all over africa. many people in africa are hiv-positive and are taking ugs face to the generosity of the american people. they are living with aids. women are dying for cervical cancer which is the leading cancer death of women in africa. areical cancers preventable. there's a vaccine for the virus that causes cervical cancer. the united states, you rarely hear of cervical cancer because when found early, it is easy to remove cervical lesions by scraping. was. webadditive that been to africa three times since we have been home. we will go again i am sure this summer. -- we have been to africa three times since we have been home.

women are getting tested for cervical cancer because they know somebody who has died from cervical cancer. that has been very interesting. a good way to spread a great work of the aids platform that george started. >> you met with michelle obama. but that is right. we hosted a luncheon -- a conference full. that happen to be with the obamas were there which was great. ,t is also very important worldwide for people around the world to see our presidents together. that is what they saw here when all of the presidents came for the opening of the library. george and i were beating with that ethiopian health minister right after we came home. that night we were in washington because all the presidents were common to pay tribute to president bush for his points of

light foundation. the last big fundraiser. and so i told the ethiopian prime minister that we were going to be there and president obama was quick to send a video. he said, you do not know. you do not know what that means to the rest of the world. would you see all of the american presidents together. -- when you see all of the american presidents together, it is a solidarity. the unity, the idea. i think is a good example for the rest of the world for stock that is what it was. that is when michelle obama could come and be with us for the first ladies conference and also when president bush and president obama laid the wreath together. >> d.phil. a sorority with the other first ladies -- do you feel a sorority with the other

first ladies? >> absolutely. we talk about how our girls are doing. and what you have worked on. also when i am with hillary clinton or any of the other first ladies. >> you mentioned a meeting of michelle obama. what is the first lady initiative? to work with first ladies around the world to talk about the way first ladies can use their platforms worldwide. we have had for a number of years and the united states, you active andis, very involved first ladies who support their husbands and their policies they are working on. cases, they have their own initiatives. often times to help women and children. and what we want the first

ladies from around the world to know is that they can also do that. there is a role for first ladies to have. to talk about especially women's issues and especially issues that have to do with children. we started this first ladies initiative and we began with first ladies from africa with a conference we hosted. then we invited all of the african first ladies to a luncheon in new york when they were all there with their husbands for the united nations general assembly. came for thate luncheon. we just talked about two programs after that luncheon was just to have a festive and friendly luncheon, but we had wendy who founded teach for america. she talked about teach for all of which is her international program. and then we had our daughter, barbara, talk about her

nonprofit, global health court. -- health core. she gotten the idea from teach for america. she recruit young graduates to work in the health field. she partners with safe and secure and stable health organizations in africa and the united states. they write a job description and she recruits young americans who partner with the young people from other parts of the world. fellows. she has two young architects in rwanda who are constructing a ventilation system. not just young health workers, but also young people who can set up the technology or a clinic. young people who can help organizations build. we had this fun a luncheon.

.ven when president came she did not have a first lady to center so she joined us. that was a thrill for me. i've been able to go to her inauguration and a library of beriashe was -- in li when she was nominated. >> the series is called "first ladies: image and influence," and what did you think your legacy was? >> the things i know will last and will last for a long time to things like the national book festival which was this last month in washington. the texas book festival which is this weekend in austin. those are both great and i hope they will continue long after i am gone to entertain people and introduce people to their favorite authors and introduce people to love reading. and so i ain't that will stay

for a long time. that will stay for a long time. and no cello -- and no child -- strongd, strung by bipartisan support. i hope the principles of accountability and responsibility we have to every student in the united states both to our own children but to all children. i hope those will last. hope -- and then, i strength and compassion i was able to bring after september 11 will be something that other people will both want to emulate and also convert people for a long time. >> laura bush. thank you

>> next week, michelle obama. we'll look at the causes and she has taken on including supported military families and childhood obesity. that is next monday on c-span, c-span3 and c-span radio. >> our website has more about the first ladies including a special section called welcome to the white house produced by our partners. it chronicles life in the executive mansion during the tenure of each of the first ladies. www.c-span.org you can find out more onwww.c-span.org -- you can find out more on www.c-span.org /fuiirstladies. we are also offering a book.

and portraitraphy of each first lady. you can find this for $12.95 at www.c-span.org under shop. >> c-span, we bring events from washington directly to you putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white ande events, briefings, coverage of gavel-to-gavel. we are c-span, created by the cable industry 35 years ago and funded by your local our satellite providers. watch as in hd and like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. >> of the next washington journal, we would discuss the raising of the debt ceiling. republican will take your questions about

security at the winter olympics in sochi. he chairs the foreign affairs subcommittee. and we'll look at president obama's executive order to raise the minimum wage for federal contractors.

with the interview first lady in dallas at 10:30. journal"ll street health care policy reporter louise radnofsky talks about an effort by republicans to replace the affordable care act. who is behind this proposal and how it is -- how is it different from others offered by congressional republicans? guest: over on the senate side, senators tom coburn and orrin hatch and richard byrd say they to startueprint conversation particularly among senate republicans. on the house side, there have been repeal and replace measures floated. what they did have was dozens of for placement ideas, none of which i've really got a consensus among the caucus around that -- none of which have really got a consensus in the caucus around them. the senate is kickstarting a

debate which means there could be one gop repeal and replacement plan. the affordability and responsibility empowering act. this looks to keep several inponents of obamacare existence after it goes through. what is in and what is out? guest: it does. it feels a lot at least at first you like the federal health law. fe crafters at sunset and immediately try to tell people what is different about it. continue subsidies for people to buy private insurance. have adoesn't requirement for individuals to buy insurance or pay a penalty, he doesn't have a requirement that employers offer insurance

or pay a penalty, which are forral t -- 2 key revisions of the affordable care act. a large number of people getting coverage. it doesn't have explicit requirements that insurance companies have everybody regrows of medical history and price the coverage -- regardless of medical history and price the coverage the same. after a one-time enrollment period, as long as they keep coverage, that is the real incentive to do it, then they will continue to offer what they are getting. what it is not an explicit requirement on companies to do not an expose is a requirement on companies to do that and some people say that might be inadequate. host: what is out in terms of obamacare? you talk a little bit about it. how are republican selling this to their colleagues? three republican senators .ropose this it isn't as obvious as it

might seem. there's certainly been a lot of political thinking in particular that once republicans offer and here the specific ideas, the opposition can shift to everything that is wrong with that. it is not an unreasonable thing to want to do but the political balance is whether they want to continue to be attacked by the president, for example, for not having alternative ideas, or if they want to start a debate around the ideas they have. host: this came out right before the president costs did of the union address. here is what he said about the publicans attacking the formal care act. [video clip] i know the american people are not interested in refighting old battles. if you have specific plans to cut costs, cover more people, increased choice, tell america

what you would do differently. let's see if the numbers add up. but let's not have another 40-something votes to repeal a law that is already helping millions of americans like amanda. host: president obama and his state of the union address last week. we are talking about this new proposal by a trio of republican senators to repeal and replace obamacare. louise radnofsky joins us from "the wall street journal." we are taking your comments and questions on the phone lines are open. ms. radnofsky, as folks are dialing in, so much -- how much momentum has this plan gotten in the past week? guest: right now the focus has been on the state of the union and a quiet time to roll it out

but as you said, perhaps intended to preempt the president and what he would like to say. house republicans at their retreat asked week were throwing out some ideas for what they might be putting on the table in replacement vision of their own. not a lot of detail about that that it intends, by the sound of it, to involve the things we heard about -- malpractice reform, selling across state lines, savings accounts, and that sort of thing. some of them might be fleshed out in more detail and some of them might be fought over. host: this proposal from a trio for public and senators was the subject of a lead editorial in "the new york times" over the weekend. fallsn called a milestone far short of what the health-care law already provides," is with the editorial board of "the new york times" writes. to insurance companies and

insurance commissioners who have based plans on existing lines been substantial money carrying them out. instead of trying to replace the health reform law with an inferior version, the publicans should work to meet the current law better, perhaps by encouraging more states to expand medicaid programs and intensify and reach to the the editorial board of "the new york times." jim is in akron, ohio, on our line for democrats. caller: hi, how are you doing this morning? host: good. your thoughts on the plan from these republican senators? caller: the problem i see is getting people to enroll. how are they going to get enough enrollees if it is not mandatory to pay for the folks who have the medical problems?

i don't see how it would work if it isn't mandatory. host: louise radnofsky, they talk about this in the proposal. guest: the argument is that without being excluded based on existing conditions, everybody might want to come in and might need to be on the safe side and this is a great opportunity to do it. the intended coverage benefit is intended to take place at the mandate. there is a robust debate over which is more effective. the requirement that people have coverage or pay penalty is relatively low in the initial year, which also has some people wondering that it might not be a sufficient incentive. there is a lot of conversation about incentives. both plans do seem to at least acknowledge that at some point if you're going to require insurance companies to take everybody, it is something you have to do to balance it out. under the senators plan,

if you don't have continuous coverage, your rates can go up as determined by insurance companies. guest: and you might continue to au --nsured, too, the the other sort of effect that the health care act was intended to avoid. host: a break in your coverage? guest: they might be able to exclude you from are choosing altogether. host: the patient choice affordability, responsibility, and empowerment act was rolled out last week. john is waiting in michigan on our line for independents. john, good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. host: go ahead. you are on "washington journal," john. caller: for the first time they say the affordable care act is not working, for the first time in 23 years, i've finally have health care. because i am a senior citizen, and it cost me $10 a month and

then i have got to pay the taxes on it, is not much. it is law. i don't believe for a minute is going to stay that low. i had hoped to buy into medicare early. it doesn't matter. i finally have health care. i had a white the died of cancer about five years ago -- i had a wife who died of cancer about five years ago. we didn't have health insurance. it was an absolute nightmare. repealing this law is not an option. it is something -- health is no good if it is not affordable. at this point, instead of for killing the law, we need to do -- hospitals are charging way too much, the doctors are charging way too much. we need to get our costs contained and then i think we will be in good shape. i will take your answer off-line. host: ms. radnofsky, any

thoughts on his comments? guest: well, there seem to be 2 different ideas between democrats and republicans about what to do about the law. the president says that if you have ideas, make it better. the republicans are proposing essentially to rip out huge parts of it and start again. it isn't tinkering at the edges so much as going and key provisions and reconstructing them. it sounds as though the caller from michigan has been one of the beneficiaries of the law, and basically because older people, it will nearing medicare age but not yet 65 and eligible probably gain the most of anybody from the age rating requirements of the health law, that the companies cannot charge older people three times as much as they charge younger people. the publicans would allow -- republicans would allow them to set their own -- many states have a five to one. it has been a big benefit for some people who are coming up to that age but are still in the private insurance markets trying to navigate it. burr-coburn-hatch

bill, how do they propose paying for the changes? guest: that is a good question. host: they zero out the taxes in obamacare. guest: they pretty much zero although taxes and are pleased with that is one of the planks. it goes through all the unpopular stuff -- taxes and mandates. what they proposed is potentially very unpopular. they want to put a tax on the mark spencer plans -- on the more expensive plans that millions in the market who are getting insurance from their employer pay. it would be a surcharge of 35% of the cost of the plan deemed to be about average. what is interesting -- host: the cost of what the employer is paying? guest: the premiums overall for the plan. as your viewers probably know, employers to pay a large portion of premiums for most people to

get their insurance on the job. host: they think they can make enough doing that to make up for what is lost in the taxes under obama care? guest: right, and if they were to make enough doing that they would be affecting a large number of people. it doesn't affect a large number of people because it has the desired effect of bringing down premiums and encouraging everybody to go to their employer and saying "you need to give me cheaper health insurance ," and still producers serious subsidies, although not as generous as the ones under the health care law in effect. host: mississippi, our line for democrats. caller: good morning. how are you this morning? host: good, go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. your previous guest on the air was saying that they hated obama so if obama take care of some of the -- he agree to some of the proposals that the republicans

put into play, do you think they would still put those plans in place because obama agreed to it? thank you. host: comments from mississippi. a little bit on that subject, are there any pieces of this hatch act received well by democrats or the white house? are they willing to work on any aspect of it? guest: there are pieces of key parts of the health law, to delete provisions like a lemming children of an old age -- up to age 26 to say under pressure to stay on their parents plan. republicans want removed certain things and democrats say that if you do that you will remove the rest of the law and this is, for -- this has come up in budget .egotiations

another way of adjusting between insurance companies. democrats cds as nonstarters and they are relatively small parts of the laws of there's not a lot of room for agreement. host: let's go to our republican line. and he is witty can help me, louisiana. albany, is waiting in louisiana. caller: good morning. we realize that after his way out of line but you know there are a lot of clinics and doctors who want to go back to the old where the costs are significant to cheaper. there has to be a reason, and i think the reason is the government involved in that market, that he keeps pushing the prices up. one other point i wanted to make. the fact that that man who said that his wife had cancer -- i was really sympathetic to that because my daughter-in-law had breast cancer and while she was

having treatment, the lady sitting next to her, she was in her 70's and she was on medicare and she was denied treatment because she had a type of cancer that she said -- they said was and in five years she probably wouldn't recover and it would come back. medicare wouldn't pay for it. she had to put a mortgage on her pay for it.to if they are making decisions like that for medicare, don't you think they're going to be making decisions like that for the affordable health care act that some of us are going to get treatment and some of us aren't? host: louise radnofsky? guest: it is helpful to think about the payers in health care being 3 organizations. one is the government, one is private insurance company, one is individuals. when individuals are paying on their own they are able to negotiate prices with their providers more directly and sometimes they are on the hook

for very inflated costs and they find it difficult to pay them. it is a big debate about whether the government or private company's do a better job of driving down prices that they pay for health care and of other kinds of decisions that they make on behalf of patients and what they think is effective. i think there are a number of people out there who think that the decisions of private insurance companies made on their behalf are once they disagree with and there's no shortage of people who think that the government's decisions on what they will and won't pay for on medicare, how much they will pay -- certainly the physicians have a robust debate around that -- it is very much an issue, too. again, it is the sort of thing that you can expect to hear more conversation about. the plans being sold through insurance exchanges under the federal health law are privately administered so that in that case it is more the insurance company making the decisions. "the louise radnofsky of wall street journal" is here to

ch-coburnthis burr-hat proposal. "the new york times" was very critical of the proposal. "the weekly standard" was very supportive of the plan. here is a bit of what "the weekly standard" had to say. "polls continue to show that far more americans disapprove of obama care than approve of it. but that does not mean americans want to go back to the pre-obamacare status quo. what the public wants is real reform, the kind that washes all the public and have been present for many years in american health care, without the baggage of obamacare. burn-hatch plan demonstrates conclusively that such a plan exists and could be passed by commerce under the political circumstances. getting the word out about this realistic plan to save the country from obamacare might be the most important thing conservatives to do in the 2014 election cycle."

how much this is your become part of the midterm elections -- is this issue become part of the midterm elections? guest: the polling on obamacare is interesting. a majority said they don't like it and a majority say they disapprove of republican plans to repeal it, which is why the president talks over and over again about republicans having 40-plus votes. most want republicans to work constructively to fix it. what that means is that the alternative proposals, minor tweaks, the 2014 elections could flesh out. i think the proposers of the senate idea in particular are not necessarily seeing it as something that would be in effect after 2014. the elections are over and they realize that the occupant of the white house is likely to be somebody else and they might think of it as 2016 or thereafter. they're putting an idea of the table -- on the table that is more designed to make sure that

republicans are involved in the debate. that debate continuing on sunday shows yesterday. house majority leader eric cantor was on cbs' "face the nation" and he talked about the republican plan. here's what he had to say. [video clip] >> that is what we talked about this week on our retreat. i believe firmly we will have a vote on alternative for health care system that works. i believe you will have it this year. we will have it this year. major, is that obama care is on on borrowed time. >> no more repeal votes? >> obamacare is on borrowed time. we want health care system that works for all americans. we have a proposal -- the president continues to say we didn't have solutions. we put a solution forward in 2009 when obamacare was passed. any of the provisions in that proposal will be in our proposal going forward -- many of the

provisions in that proposal will be in our proposal going forward. >> when will we see it? >> first of all, let me talk about what is in it. those going to deal with pre-existing conditions. we don't want them to go without coverage. we just deal with it in a way that provides high risk pools so that we can limit the increasing costs for everybody else and do it in a much more cost-effective manner. we say that folks on a half a choice of their -- ought to have a choice of their entrance committees and let them bridges across state lines and help bring out prices. we ought to have patient -centered care, not care dictated by washington, which is why we want to promote health savings accounts. these are the kinds of things in our proposal. host: louise radnofsky of "the ,"all street journal eric cantor talking about the discussions of the republican retreat last week, different from the proposal by the three senators. guest: he is talking about several things already in effect and what he would want to do with them. high-risk pools are the sort of things that long exist in many

states. some states are running them down now. they cover people who are basically considered to be uninsurable through the private market. there is a federal program being extended partially machination of the difficulties the insurance exchanges had when they were rolling out. they want to keep them going and the way that would work would depend on what else the landscape was, if we are talking about a variation on legislation that democrats have passed, or in some new vision. republicans have essentially written up and started from scratch. host -- ripped it up and started from scratch. host: richard is waiting in florida on our line for independents. caller: i'm so happy you have ms. radnofsky on this money could i would ask her, number one, if she is aware that every health insurance company in the united states enjoys exemption from antitrust regulations, and , she canr her contacts

make inquiries, because despite my written inquiries to my congressman and senator marco, it is amazing to me -- how can they talk about competition without all the insurance companies losing this exemption from antitrust? it has nothing to do with best practices. it has to do with the ceo of the company a calls the ceo of "hey, how much are you charging for mri these days?" you cannot have the competition without the repeal of this exemption for antitrust. i hope the reporter will take this to people in congress and get a direct response. they won't even address -- because if you write them they won't even address it and i think it has to do with the insurance lobby that provides people a lot of money. the democrats won't touch this. that is why i am putting this on republicans and she is talking about a proposal from republicans in the u.s. senate. i hope she will address that

with someone and maybe we will get a response. -- i willse radnofsky let louise radnofsky jump in, richard. into: i would have to look the antitrust aspect in a little bit more detail but i'm glad you brought it up. we're talking about competition among health insurance companies and there is a couple of different things going on. one is the prices they're willing to pay for certain products. it is somewhat shrouded in secrecy. what is someone interesting is that it makes the prices they charge consumers in premiums more transparent. everybody is going to be saying that -- paying the same price based on their age and where they live rather than these other things that you couldn't note. you can stack prices of against each other more clearly than you could before, like e-health, because you did not know that everybody could buy the product they're pretty will be interesting to see what happens when insurance to be going forward. supporters of the law say that

in effect that will drive down prices. insurance committees have been all over the map. some of them have been aggressively low with premiums designed to bring in people, and some of them have been betting they will not get as many healthy people as they thought. what will -- what we will see in the next few years is you is right in those -- who was right in those bets. the dynamic of competition among insurance committees is certainly changing and we will look into what indicates that. host: ted in new york, new york on outline for rugrats -- on our line for democrats. caller: good money, and thank you for c-span. that caller with that statement about the antitrust was very interesting to me. i would love to know more about it on c-span at some point in the future. you played eric cantor. he is -- if he is not one of the

most disingenuous members of congress -- the democrats wanted this copper of buying across state lines and the republicans blocked it. to beats wanted medicare able to bargain for the cost of pharmaceutical drugs. republicans blocked it. now all of a sudden they are the good guys. i'm easily was able to get obamacare -- i recently was able to get obamacare. i know it is the afford will care act. -- it took a couple of weeks of doing. eligible for any subsidy. the a fortune of money -- earn a fortune of money. i just squeaked by. i bought a very good plan for

myself, $600 per month. i consider that a lot of money every month. prior to the affordable care act, that same policy was $1000 per month for an individual. it you are a republican or democrat, if you will burn less than $46,000 per year as an , youidual, which i don't would be eligible for a subsidy. arelieve the numbers $90,000 or year or less for a married couple. obamacare worked for me. you wrote down quite a bit during his phone call. i will let you jump in. great to hear and

are certainly a large number of people who have benefited in -- -- there are a certainly there are certainly a large number of people who have benefited. something that $600 is going to be -- something like $600 is going to be much better. where $600 is a significant increase. they were known by their insurance company to be a very good that. the increase is obviously a personal hit. there is a broader conversation about whether any of that was there to start with and what should be the case and if other people should be given a break on their insurance premium based on their luck or personal responsibility and having good health. interesting debate. now the insurance exchanges are working.

we have seen people with a positive affect and negative affect. several comments on our twitter page. ron writes -- guest: that gets back to this idea that some people were able to get coverage that works for them because they were very healthy and did not need much. they are being charged essentially because they are subsidizing the risk of other people. they are subsidizing the risk of the unknown or because they are paying for things like maternity coverage.

there is a big shift in the way insurance is being seen now. insurance stopped being a thing where you think you are able to .et away with very little the would take a while to shake out but certainly it is what people are starting to see. people are starting to ask why am i paying for a subsidies benefit, i did not need that butuse i only got insurance there's needs that. -- i did not need that. i only got insurance because i was worried i would be in a car accident. caller: this is so complicated to be convoluted as

unintelligible to the average individual. the only outcome seems to be ing a safe population to the companies. the only outcome is to put off what is absolutely necessary, which is national healthcare. in the final analysis people are going to say we couldn't even do it with obamacare. we are the only civilized nation in the world that does not have a national healthcare program. weighingtch mothers whether they are going to pay for the rent or buy food for their children versus taking the child to the doctor, it is absolutely unacceptable. my partner looked into the for obamacare, 600 dollars per month. she makes $10,000 per year.

that is unacceptable. on a fallacious const -- concepts, all the young people are going to pay for this. it seems to me this has been a lie on the beginning from both the republican and democratic side. the idea of national health insurance and where that might be. guest: we certainly have a hybrid health policy proposal that tries to marry the government paying for some health insurance for some people , employers paying for some coverage for some people. there are certainly supporters out there of the idea that the government should pay for everything. there are people on the other

end of the spectrum who believed enterprises or individuals should pay for absolutely everything. they are both two competing visions that do not meet in the middle. it is one of the factors that makes it exceedingly complicated we have 10 minutes radnofsky.adlofouise this proposal was put on table -- on the table by a trio of republican senators. go to daryl waiting in birmingham, alabama on our line for democrats. caller: thanks for taking my call. i am disappointed conservatives and republicans did not address health care themselves severally years ago. now we are going to pay for it.

one of the problems in our communication is our language. we just heard "the government pays." the government never pays for anything. they take our money and use it. this is one of the way democrats and liberals are able to hack themselves on the back end project is that to pat themselves on the back and project themselves as -- able to pat themselves on the back and generous.emselves as health care and health insurance are not the same thing. we use the language on the show. everyone in britain has health insurance. their care is rationed.

friends in britain can't just go to the doctor any time and get anything done. all bends towards the democrats and the liberals favor. radnofsky, i'm sure as you have written about health care, the importance of language has come up to you guest: there is -- come up. we use a system for which individuals pay taxes to the government, the governmetnt distributes the money equally. health care dollars flow. health insurance dollars flow in ways that are complicated.

the shorthand does have meaning behind it. host: before we get away from the proposal, one other piece of that is medicaid and what happens to medicaid under that plan as opposed to what happens under the affordable care act. one of the complicated things potentially for the sponsors, the trio of senators is that they do have a promise that if you like your health plan you can keep it. at the same time they don't and visited -- don't envisage the kind of fund the that will encourage that kind of funding that will encourage them to expand -- the kind of funding that will encourage them to expand. does -- medicaid discussion is really interesting right now.

exactly 25 states have opted into the extension are you -- extension. there has been an idea among opponents of the extension that at 25 oran keep it more, ultimately over time the will feelf the states like they are subsidizing from other states. put pressure on them over time. if they can just get to 30 pressurehe momentum or will, on the others to come in. -- there will be momentum or pressure on the others to come and. -- to come in. host: we go to pat on our line for democrats. good morning. it and if we don't fix go to an alternative, we're never going to see one again. the republicans want to talk

about this and it needs an alternative. immigration, you'll never get them on board with that. all we're hearing is jibber-jabber. about anant to ask you observation made by one of your fellow health policy writers. as she was writing about the wrote -- she guest: i think that is one fair

way some of the elements were not new and not the unitof looking at it. unique to democrats. it has become extremely divergent poll arise because there has been a law on the stancesople take firm for or against. you have some people who like some parts of it but don't like others. exampleolic church, for . they have different parts that matter to them in different oppose -- that they parts that they oppose. host: richard is waiting in new york on our line for republicans. the morning. -- good morning. i would like to give

packed in new york city a heads up that he purchased -- a heads up on the insurance he purchased on the new york exchange. acceptedhe plans are by the cancer center in new york. notre as hell hope he does get cancer. she seems to feel the same way n billobamacare because i o'reilly's interview yesterday, 6 million people have been added to medicaid. do you have any idea how much an orthopedic surgeon is paid for the surgical services of a total -- total knee replacement. host: they would say they are paid their -- paid very little. there are a large number of physicians in general and it may be did -- maybe different with the specialties.

a think the volume of patients they are able to get through to significant. it is possible to get physicians that will accept medicaid in certain areas. seeing doctors scaling back -- we are not seeing a large number of doctors opting out of medicare. .here are some who are doing medicare pays more than medicaid. physicians pay that physicians complain about how little medicaid pays. -- physicians complain about how little medicaid pays. we have been talking about the patient choice responsibility and affordability act. the short name is the patient care act.

recognizes the gentlewoman from florida, ms. ros-lehtinen, stations.

the subject has generated an enormous amount of interest. i am very appreciative of both panels. in the first panel, we will be hearing from the deputy special agent in charge of secret

service's criminal investigation division, cyber operations, and 's ciberees the servicej' portfolio. he has over 20 years of government experience here at he has done transnational fraud negotiations. welcome. ms. jessica rich is the director of the bureau of consumer protection at the ftc pg has held a number of senior positions, including associate director in charge of the division of financial practices and assistant director of the division of privacy. she joined the ftc staff more than 20 years ago. welcome. this is a subject that has garnered a lot of public attention recently, and i think

a longerdy who spent career in technology than i have in government, this is an area that i think is going to -- we're going to see an exponential rise in consumer interest, ands others as we try to get our arms around a challenge that is only going to grow in terms of our -- all of our lives. we have heard of massive data weeks atin recent target, neiman marcus, michael's, and other retailers. at target alone, more than 40 million cards were compromised. up to an additional 70 million other consumer information was taken. not only were the card sticking, but if the cards were not taken, data was compromised as well. we had to make clear that while we're talking about specific retailers, this is not a

witchhunt about any particular retailer's actions or in actions. ,onestly, i think we will see and i know from my role in the intel community, this is a crime that have instantly to financial institutions, retailers, at a level that most americans would find rather confounding. i at one point had a much longer statement, but there are three areas i think we need to focus on. as we sort through this issue, we need to understand that we don't need another -- i do not need, at least, long-term fight between the bankers, retailers, and the card industry. many of us up here have gone through these challenges, rightfully felt, around the interchange bottles, but a repeat of that kind of delay in getting a solution serves no one

. china,kers in russia, ukraine, throughout the world, are not waiting for america to get its act together on this issue. they are continuing to strike as everyday. to better protect consumers, our financial institutions, networks, and merchants should work together to continue to innovate on anti-fraud technology. as i said, the public cannot multiple yearsr of legislative battles like we saw over interchange fees. every minute of every day, the hackers and the cyber thieves are attacking our vulnerabilities. second, somebody who spent a career in technology, in many ways this is fundamentally a technology problem. and technology can provide part of the solution. you have already seen data that shows that the card protection system used in europe, so-called system, is much

more effective than what we have presently in the united states in terms of the swipe system in terms of riveting fraud at point-of-sale. but we should not assume that any single technology is a silver bullet solution. technology, as we know, what continue to evolve on a weekly, monthly, basis, and we have to to continue to stay ahead. we have seen in europe that while the chip and pin system dramatically decrease, for example, in the u.k., the amount of fraud and tiber theft at point-of-sale, we saw a dramatic increase then in online fraud and cyber attacks. discusse we are able to technology solutions, not just ship and pin,, but as we look at the online issue, there is this emerging field which can provide a more encrypted solutions sets,

not just for point of sale, but .or other solutions again, we are not here to endorse any specific technology products or services. but i think this is an area where we need great collaboration. to play.t as a role industry has a role to play. but as consumers, we need to be more vigilant as well. consumer financial exposure is more limited with credit cards. here is my personal debit card. i will try to pull the numbers back a little bit. but until a few weeks ago, i did not realize that my debit card protections are not as great as my credit card protections. i will let my record show that i do not show the numbers on either side. but even with the debit card protections, there are -- with this challenge, we have got to look at perhaps raising those

standards to equaling credit cards. debit card use has been growing like mad. sincections tripling 2003. again, i think about my kids who have got debit cards and large portions of the underserved community use debit cards, and that will be a fact of life and we have to figure out a way to act swiftly. finally, as we talk about one of the most frightening things that i heard as i sorted through this, thinking about cards and protecting consumer privacy, in many ways we have focused so far on the challenge around protecting credit cards and debit cards am a but the real potential exposure we have is that people can actually get onliner bank accounts or transactions that we all do more and more online banking and other services. that offers an area where there are very few protections at this point and almost unlimited

liability for consumers. so one of the challenges we had is, yes, we have a role for industry and for government, but we all have a role as americans to make sure you take that extra protection to occasionally makee your pin number and sure you never reveal your bank account information number, that you constantly report if you feel like there has been an instance of fraud. this is a role that all americans will have to play, continued vigilance and. with that, i will ask for comments from senator kirk. just. chairman, i would put a face to this crime we're talking about. -- albert dollars gonzales was convicted in 2010 of stealing 40 million credit card records. he made so much money off of this that he even bought his own italian island off the profits. now serving 20 years in prison. that is in line with the legislation i will be

introducing that calls for a 25-year federal minimum this kind of theft or just to say goodbye, you are off to prison for a significant torsion of your life. i am looking for bipartisan cosponsors. >> i think the question of enforcement has got to be an area we focus on. i think there will be bipartisan support. all right, with that, i look forward to an exciting and robust discussion. >> good afternoon, chairman, ranking member, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the department of homeland security

regarding the exploitation of cyberspace to obtain sensitive and financial identity information to defraud our nation's payment systems. our modern financial system depends heavily on information technology for convenience and efficiency. accordingly, criminals motivated by greed have adapted their methods and are increasingly using cyberspace to exploit our nation's financial payment systems to engage in fraud and other illicit activities. the widely reported data breaches of target and neiman marcus are just recent examples of this trend. the secret services investigating the recent breaches, and we are confident we will bring these criminals responsible to justice. however, data breaches like the recent events are part of a long trend. in 1980 four, congress recognized the risks posed by increasing use of information technology and established eight and 1030.ections 1029

these statutes define device fraud and misuse of computers as federal crime and assign the secret service authorities to investigate these crimes. in support of the mission to safeguard cyberspace, the secret crimee investigates cyber through our highly trained special agents in the work of a growing network of 33 electronic crimes task force is which congress has assigned the detecting preventing, , and investigating various forms of electronic crimes. crimeesult of our cyber investigations, over the past four years, the secret service has arrested nearly 5000 cyber criminals. in total, these criminals were risk route -- were responsible for over $1 billion in fraud losses. over -- we have prevented $11 billion in fraud losses. data breaches like the recently reported occurrences are just one part of a complex scheme executed by organized cyber crime.

these criminal groups are using increasingly sophisticated technologies to conduct a criminal conspiracy consisting of five parts. accessining unauthorized to computer systems carrying valuable project and. two, employing specialized malware to capture this data. three, distributing or selling the sensitive data to criminal associates. four, engaging in sophisticated -- distributive frauds using the sensitive information. five, laundering the proceeds of their illicit activity. all five of these activities or criminal violations in and of themselves. -- thisducted, they are scheme has yielded hundreds of millions of dollars in illicit proceeds. the secret service is committed to protecting our nation from this threat. we disrupt every step of their five-part numeral scheme through proactive criminal investigations.

the defeat of these transnational cyber criminals through arrest and seizure of assets. foundational to these efforts are private industry partners, as well as close partnerships with state, local, federal, and international law enforcement. theseesult of partnerships, we are able to prevent many cyber crimes by sharing criminal intelligence. and minimizing financial losses i stopping the cyber criminal schemes. through the department national cyber security and communications integration center, the secret service also quickly shares technical cyber security information while protecting civil rights and civil liberties to allow organizations to reduce their cyber risks by mitigating technical vulnerabilities do it we also partner with the private sector and academia to research cyber threats and look for trends to reports like the insider threat study, the verizon data breach

investigation report, and the global security report. the secret service has a long history of protecting our nation's financial system from threats. in 1865, the threat we were was connectedress currency. as our financial payment system has evolved from paper to plastic, now digital information, so has our investigative mission. the secret service is committed to protecting our nation's financial system even as criminals increasingly exploit it to cyberspace. through the dedicated effort of taskforces and by working with the department of justice, the criminal division and the global u.s. attorneys offices, the secret service will continue to bring cyber criminals that perpetrate major data breaches to justice. tonk you for the opportunity testify on this important topic, and we're looking forward to your questions. >> chairman warner, ranking

member kirk, and members of the subcommittee, i am jessica rich, director of the bureau of consumer protection at the federal trade commission. i appreciate this opportunity to present the commission's testimony on data security. in today's interconnected world, personal information is collected from consumers wherever they go. from the workplace to shopping for groceries, from our smartphones to browsing the web at home, virtually every action we take involves the collection of information, some of it very sensitive. many of these data uses have clear benefits, but the recent state of data breaches ours -- are a strong reminder that they also create risks for consumers. hackers seek to exploit vulnerability to obtain and misuse consumer personal information. all of this takes place in the backdrop of the threat of identity theft, a pernicious crime that harms both consumers and businesses. the bureau of justice statistics estimates that over 16 million people were victims of