the. but what's striking is how much of our energy policy is still stuck back in the 1970s. like that tv show with ashton kutcher "that 0s show" that is the current federal government's approach to energy. we still have antiquated bans on exporting, crude, restrictions on lng. antiquated rules on building pipelines that enable a president who's being irresponsible to arbitrarily stand in the way, to behave as the energy secretary said, politically, to stop those tens of thousands of i might note union jobs that are not being created because the president doesn't want them. the rules and restrictions we have are for a different time, for a different era. we can, by simply allowing

entrepreneurs, allowing the private sector to do what it does best, we can continue this thank you. >> on the next "washington journal" we will talk to steve king about immigration, the debt ceiling, and health care. on thengle, who serves foreign affairs committee, will give an update on syria, afghanistan, iran. president hollande's visit to the u.s. this week and your phone calls any males and tweets on "washington journal." >> on our first lady series, a

look at the life and influence of michelle obama. then, the british house of commons on scottish independence. part of monday's heritage mit, and look at people of congress. ♪ >> you come into this house and there is so much to do. so much coming at you that there is no time to think or reflect. hi, everyone. we are here digging up soil because we are going to plant a garden. i will not be satisfied until every single veteran and military spouse who wants a job has one. at the end of the day, my most important title is still mom-in-chief. >> in 2008, barack obama was elected as our 44th president and he and first lady michelle obama went into the history

books as the first african-american first couple. one year into a second obama term, the first lady continues her focus on childhood obesity, support for military families, and access to education. good evening and welcome. tonight is the final installment in our year-long series, "first ladies: influence and image." we finish appropriately with the current first lady, michelle obama. we will learn more about her biography and how she has approached the job in her six years in the office so far. let me introduce you to our two guests who will be with us throughout that time. they are both journalists who have covered the first lady. liza mundy is a biographer of michelle obama. her 2008 book was called "michelle." krissah thompson is a washington post journalist who covers the first lady as her beat. we will start our program with a clip and this is from 2008. michelle obama in a campaign

speech talking about her own personal story. >> all my life i have confronted people who had a certain expectation of me. every step of the way there was somebody there telling me what i could not do. i applied to princeton -- cannot go there, your test scores are not high enough. i went and graduated with honors. wrong. [applause] then i was not supposed to go to harvard. i don't even know why they said that. i can go through every curve and twist and turn of my life and find somebody that was telling me to lower my expectations, set my sights low, i cannot do that. every time i push passed other people's limited expectations of me and reached for things i knew i could do and grabbed my seat at the table that others felt so entitled to, what i learned was

that there is no magic to these people who feel so much more ready than me. i was just as ready, always just as prepared as anyone at that table. >> we are going to talk about her biography but we chose that clip because that was before she went to the white house. both of you were observing her professionally. when you watch the 2008 michelle obama, the pre-white house michelle obama, and think about her today. how has she grown in the job? how has she changed her approach to the public from what we see in that clip? >> she has become more optimistic and positive. i have a hard time imagining her saying something quite like that today. she seems to be articulating in that clip something almost like -- there is something called imposter syndrome when people feel like they are not supposed to be where they are and it takes them a while to get over

that feeling. because maybe you came from a background where you're not expected to be at this place. if she felt any of that, she certainly has gotten over it. she seems very comfortable in where she is. >> she still is saying some of the same things. i think some of the rough edges have been polished off. when she is talking to young people, she is saying, people did not believe in me at different points in my life, but i showed them that i could overcome and i made these achievements anyway. this line that there is no magic to this. she says that often so that people know she can close this gap between where she came from and where she is. kids can do the same thing. >> in your book, you say early on that michelle obama once said of politics that sometimes it is like a waste of time and she has

become over time her husband's trusted political advisor. when did that transformation happen? >> she came from chicago which is a city of machine politics, a city that had not been politically just or fair towards african-american residents. she had a lot of reason to be skeptical of politics when she was growing up and her family was famously skeptical to the point where barack obama when he confessed to craig robinson that he wanted to be a politician, he said to keep that under his hat. she even described herself in 2007 as having been the last one to accept that barack obama was going to run for president. it must've come during the presidential campaign. >> do you agree? >> i do. there is this idea that she was a reluctant campaigner. i think that she was reluctant

to sign on in part because they had two young daughters at the time and thinking about this sort of sacrifices that would have to be made. she had been through a campaign for senate that took them all across the state and her mom had to step up in many ways and help with the daughters. when you think about taking that to the nation, there was a lot to consider. she counted the costs. then i am told once she signed on, she was all in. it was not that this reluctance continued throughout. >> what we started this series, we promised it would be from martha washington to michelle obama. obviously, this one is a challenge tonight because it is a sitting first lady and the story has not been told nor has there been some distance in time to judge her legacy and history. let's spend some time on her

biography and how she has used her six years in the white house. we do invite your calls along the way. here is how you can join in. you can do it by telephone -- you can find us on twitter -- @firstladies is our twitter address. facebook is another opportunity. there is already a conversation on facebook about michelle obama. we will go to her biography. she was born when and where? >> she was born in chicago in 1964. >> it was january 17. what was 1960 chicago like for the robinson family?

>> it was a very segregated city. she grew up on the south side of chicago. there were a lot of different neighborhoods, different immigrants, different ethnic neighborhoods. the city was just opening up a little bit so that her family when she was still pretty small was able to move into a neighborhood that had been a white neighborhood. craig has said that they remember the white families started moving away when families like the robinsons were moving in. they would've been aware of that. they would've been aware that opportunities were opening up for better neighborhoods, better schools, but at the same time, there was a white flight that was going on that they would've been aware of. >> father fraser robinson born in 1935 and died in 1991. and her mother, marian robinson, whom we all know because she lives at the white house. we don't see her too often but she is part of the first family. we have a clip about michelle

obama talking about her father. let's listen in. >> my father was a pump operator at the city water plant. he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis when my brother and i were young. even as a kid, i knew there were plenty of days when he was in pain. i knew there were plenty of mornings when it was a struggle for him to simply get out of bed. but every morning, i watched my father wake up with a smile. he grabbed his walker, prop himself up against the bathroom sink, and slowly shave and button his uniform. when he returned home after a long day's work, my brother and i would stand at the top of the stairs of our little apartment, patiently waiting to greet him, watching as he reached down to lift one leg and then the other to slowly climb his way into our arms.

despite these challenges, my dad hardly ever missed a day of work. he and my mom were determined to give me and my brother the kind of education they could only dream of. [applause] when my brother and i finally made it to college, nearly all of our tuition came from student loans and grants, but my dad still have to pay a tiny portion of that tuition himself. every semester, he was determined to pay that bill right on time, even taking out loans when he fell short. he was so proud to be sending his kids to college and he made sure we never missed a registration deadline because his check was late. you see, for my dad, that is what it meant to be a man. >> lots to follow up on but let's start with her father and

his influence on her life. if you look at the obamas as a couple, the interesting comparison is that barack obama did not know his father at all. it seems from what we can see there that for michelle obama, her father was a very important influence. >> her father was a central figure. really both of her parents. her brother describes their childhood as being a time when their parents that a lot of time with them, they were not leaving their kids with babysitters. they built the kids' self-esteem and made it seem like they were wonderful people to be around. that kind of confidence infused in their lives. they took family trips, played board games. they knew all their relatives, went to visit, and described a really warm, family-centered childhood. their dad was at the heart of that.

>> she described him as a pump operator but he was also part of the precinct -- democratic precinct in the city of chicago. what was his job and how did that influence the families? >> he was a precinct captain. he would go around -- in some ways, he was a community organizer like barack obama. neighbors said that he was a joking man and had a great sense of humor. it may be that he genuinely enjoyed being a precinct captain. it may also be that it was necessary to be a precinct captain in order to get that pump operator job because that was the way you would get a city job. the other thought i had about both of her parents is -- having a good city job meant for them

that michelle obama's mom could stay home with the children in a way that many women were not able to do so. african-american women have a longer tradition of having to go out to work. i think when she had children, she asked herself, should i be home with my daughters the way my mom was home with me? i think it probably made her father's job seem all the more valuable to have. >> i think that is an important point about her mom. she was a stay-at-home mom but she had a couple of years of teachers college so she was able to homeschool school her children before homeschooling was popular in the way that we think about it. both of them skipped early grades in elementary school. you see some things happening in this family really early that are different. >> both children went to princeton and michelle went to harvard law school. where did the emphasis of

education come from? >> her parents. they were really clear this was the road to get ahead. her brother in his book writes about his mom teaching them to read at home and doing math tables and that kind of thing. when they got to school even as early as first and second grade, they were already steps ahead of everyone else and that continues along with their own hard work through high school. they're excelling really early on. >> when michelle obama got into a magnet school that was in a completely different part of chicago, she had to take several modes of transportation to get to her high school and leave really early in the morning. >> an hour-long bus to school in each direction. during the 2008 -- your newspaper wrote a big story about the genealogy of michelle obama's family, tracing it back

to a slave in georgetown in south carolina. a question for both of you. the arc of the robinson family life is the arc of black history in america in ways that barack obama's life is not. can you comment on that and what we see in the robinson family and part of the great migration in the 1940's and 1950's and how we should understand their experience? >> do you want to go first? >> you can go, liza, you may know a little more about the family from south carolina onto chicago and just that arc. we do know that for african-americans, the fact that her story is rooted in relatives that were enslaved has been a very important and connective to her relationship with the community in general.

when you look back to 2008, there were some questions early on about is barack obama black enough? you never heard that sort of thing about michelle obama and i think part of that is rooted in the more traditional african-american experience. that way she kind of serves as a validator for him in many ways. >> she definitely did. >> that was important. >> what do you want to add about the robinson family history? >> her family's history is quintessential in that some of her family stayed in georgetown and she has relatives who are still there. there was a train depot very close to town. at least one of her male ancestors, i think it would've been -- her great-grandfather traveled to chicago because that is where the trains went. he was able to settle in the

south side where there was the meatpacking plants and all that industrial labor. there were still a lot of racism and different wage scales for black men and white men but it was better than the south. the robinson family was able to establish a very broad and rooted family in chicago so that when she and barack obama were first going out, that was a real up epiphany for him. an experience to be in such a rooted family where your uncles were coming around and people were visiting with each other, it was a different family life than he experienced. >> adrienne on twitter asks, mrs. obama is into having children exercise more. i wonder if she played any sports when she was younger. >> she did ballet in high school so she danced. her brother writes a little bit about this in his book describing his sister as being very competitive.

she wanted to win board games and foot races and that kind of thing. if my recollection is right, it is part of the reason she did not continue -- let me pause. she said she didn't do many sports in high school and beyond because she was taking the bus back and forth that would've kept her at school too late to be able to do some of those afterschool programs. >> craig went to a different high school where he was able to play basketball. i thought she said at one point she resisted playing basketball because she was tall and people thought she would be likely to play basketball. >> and not being able to beat her brother at it, too. >> the first lady is 5'11". do we know when she reached that height? >> i have a photo of her in ballet and she looked pretty tall. >> we will take a couple of calls and then learn about her days in princeton and then law school and then meeting the future president.

cathy is in colorado. >> good evening. i have been watching the program since martha washington until now. my comment is that i am a romantic. i see some of the presidents and their wives seemed to show a lot of love. for instance, pat and richard nixon -- i think he loved her but he did not show it. i can see it with michelle and president obama that they really do love one another. i think they really do care for one another and they enjoy each other's company. that was my comment. i think this is so important for the people of the united states to say these two people love one another and i don't care if you're a republican or democrat, i think it is important that they do show that they do care and don't put on a show. >> also, since we have been moving through history with this

series, has society's standards changed where we are more welcoming to seeing the personal emotional side of the people of the white house? >> i think so because of reality television, if nothing else. we are so intimately involved with people that we don't know. in some ways, people feel like they know the obamas because it is on public display. we catch wind when they are on date night. we know they had an early valentine's day dinner. the fact that is out in public and people see them warmly touching each other and hugging. even his campaign at one point sent out a photo of them together hugging one another, both embracing one another and that went viral. there were pieces in newspapers thinking about what it means to

see a kind of modern marriage in the white house and considering those ideas. >> a modern marriage in the white house and an african-american couple. you write in one of your articles that valerie was been with the first lady since her early days says they are cognizant of this role model importance that they have. would you comment on how much of this is a conscious effort? >> i think it is very conscious, not just for young people who have been a focus of both the president and first lady, but also for families. there were so much talk now about how you do family well in this country. they understand that people are hungry for that information. how do you raise well-adjusted teenagers and to have a woman doing that in the white house and giving parenting tips. she gave some parenting tips the

justin bieber's mother the other day. people want that kind of information and i think it provides us some of that personal connection that this white house has done i would save very well in helping people feel the white house is the people's house and this is a family that could be the family next door that you could relate to. >> it is really the first fully social media white house. they have advantages on social media that path president did not so we have seen a lot of them in lots of different forms. john is in houston. >> this show is great and i called during the helen taft show. after they killed osama bin laden, when they saw the pictures, what was his reaction and her reaction and will they ever release them? >> thank you.

either of you know whether or not she had a reaction about osama? >> if i remembering correctly, that night -- she went out to dinner with his sister, maybe. we don't know anything about their private reactions to those photos. we do know they were not in the white house. >> keith in illinois. hi. >> thank you for taking my call. it is obvious that michelle and barack obama are really good parents. i was appalled with that ad campaign that came out this last election that was talking about that their kids were getting special treatment and this and that. they should have, they are the president's children. how did that affect michelle and

how did she maintain and not just go viral on tv after that was done? >> i think i know what he is referring to. i believe it was the nra -- it could've been another organization when we were in the midst of the gun rights debate. i think it was a web ad and not an ad for television asking questions about the president's daughters being guarded by secret service and men that were carrying guns and why shouldn't other young people have armed guards in their schools. i think the president reacted and did not think those sort of ads were appropriate. this brings up an interesting point on just how protected this white house has been of the obama daughters. you do see some very fine lines. there were some companies that tried to create some dolls named after the daughters early on in the white house quickly shut that down.

this sort of thing that the daughters are off-limits, it has been pretty true to form. alonge to move the story with farther back in history, there were some president to fully embrace having the makingn be available, advertisements out of them so that has been another storyline as our series has progressed. ladies have handed down a device like jackie kennedy heading down advice to hillary clinton. she is a successful student at princeton at a time where there were about 90 african-americans there. one of the things that have stayed with her in politics is her thesis because she was associate legitimate or -- she was a sociology major.

talk about that the system and how it evolved into a political tool for the opposition. >> as someone who was there on the same time the road of thesis -- that thought it would end up in the public view and use against her sort of boggles the mind. she was on the campus at a very interesting time. it had opened up to women and african-american students to a more diverse student body, but there was definitely resistance and backlash against that. it was a time where a lot of students do not have a lot of experience, having traveled a lot so they were coming to campus and made aware of their difference in the way they had never been made aware of before. her thesis, talking about the fact for the first time on the campus of princeton she realize she was black seems completely

unsurprising to me and yet -- it is interesting, it was an experiment where she was writing , did you feeling more comfortable with why people are black people? what kind of results ability do you have towards the lower income black community? she was working on all these changes and questions that you was asking yourself in the way that seem to be so normal. so many other students of different gender or racial groups or ethnic groups would also be asking themselves on this campus exposed to a lot of different people. whatu have to figure out is class and what that looks like it means. how do i stay connected to where i come from a which is very important to me and also move into these opportunities that are ahead of me? is anything fair game for the

highest office in the land? she moves from princeton to harvard to study law. what took her in that direction? -- ifhink part of it was you weren't quite sure what you did, you would go to law school. at thatfor many people point, you thought the civil rights act was not that old. you thought you would change the world. there was a pretty strong conformist sort of push to law school at that time. i did interview an administrator who knew her very well who try to talk her out of going to law school. hersaid michelle did call and said she was probably right. >> she chose to go to chicago and get a job at a corporate law firm that special intellect medications. -- that special to in

telecommunications. >> getting back to what do i oh my gosh and he, --getting back to what i could do for my community, she did have the opportunity to get into corporate america work for and have law firm access to this kind of a job that the way your parents did not. take advantage of that opportunity now or should i go back and work on behalf of my community and where i came from? that is something she has wrestled with ever since. >> we will take a telephone call. lisa is in portland, oregon. craig lives here in oregon and i was wondering if you are certain that she and the president will return to chicago? -- we arenow beginning to talk about that. >> we don't know where they will eventually end up. they talked about perhaps staying in washington right

becauses terms ends his youngest daughter will still love couple of years in high school. after coming here, as the president said to build his dream, that some other members of the family will come first and deciding where they go next. i think we can look for their youngest daughter sasha to have quite a bit of input into where they end up in where they will make their way to -- back to chicago or hawaii or any number of places, we cannot be sure. >> ora from geriorgia. >> hi. 2008e lived in indiana in and michelle obama came to speak. for obama.oup of us about 150 of us. andspoke at a high school

everyone in that room had tears. she was amazing. she is amazing. i really enjoyed the series. i've wanted ever since martha washington and thank you so much. >> thank you for your call. at a big lawob firm in chicago and it was a fateful decision because she meets a young summer law intern from harvard. tell the story of how the two of them met. >> he was a summer associate and she was his boss. probably like modern work place laws would not allow this to develop. in fact, he was taken with her. her colleagues that i interviewed became aware in the late afternoon that they would walk by her office and he would be on her desk and they could tell that something was developing.

it did not take too long before they were going out and were smitten with each other. that is right. he was -- he had to go back to law school. she was in chicago. he was going back to harvard law. there were several years where they were not necessarily living in the same town. and she does tell a funny story where she began to pressure him. and they were going out to dinner in chicago and she sort of started in on when are we going to get married. for a while, he would say marriage is just a word. then a ring was delivered with the dessert. she tells the story. that did shut her up. >> they were married in 1992.

michelle obama's church which would become a part of the political story. the pastor there, reverend jeremiah wright. how did his story -- their story together become important? >> it becomes an important part of the 2008 campaign. it really speaks to in so many ways this kind of latent question that was always out there. is america ready for african-americans in the white house and is america ready for a black president? in some ways, jeremiah wright stands in as a kind of charge point for that question. he comes out of a kind of strain of african-american pastors and thinking black liberation and theology where there were many radical sermons which were excerpted and lines were taken from them which became a huge

political problem for the obamas. he was also a man for a time had quite a bit of influence on them. president obama -- when he is in the u.s. senate, takes the title of his second book "audacity to hope," comes from one of the sermons. reverend wright talked about this idea of not having very much, but hoping and holding on to hope. these are some of the kind of ideas that connected them to him in the church. when this breaks open in the campaign, there is really a large sort of national conversation about race that began. >> they were married in 1992. malia did not arrive until 1998. what was life like for the early couple? >> they were working very hard. barack obama helped persuade

michelle that she could leave corporate law. and she could do something less conventional and more interesting. she did not have to follow a really kind of predictable path. i think that is one thing he did for her. at the same time, she gave him a rooted family. a sense of belonging. he gave her a sense of the possible. what was possible for her. she took a job in the city government and then a nonprofit called public allies. for that time, he was teaching at the law school and getting involved in politics and they were working very hard and intensely. >> is it true in addition to her community oriented jobs, she was also serving on corporate boards? i read she served on several corporate boards. >> she was on some boards. one was a dance company. i am not sure.

>> it would be important in her development. when barack obama starts to move from community organizing into elective politics, how supportive was michelle? >> i have a quote from his book where he was talking about how after sasha was born, michelle would say you only think of yourself. i never thought i would have to raise a family alone. it was a classic america argument that happened repeatedly during this time. she was shouldering so much of the weight of raising a family. >> and supporting the family. >> this is a difficult point in their marriage. and kind of what he is going to do with his life. >> and not the first time in the history of first ladies where the political wife is left to really raise the family.

a real commitment on the part to pursue. >> there have been first ladies who are prayed for their husbands' defeat. >> it was not elections in that camp. >> not quite. >> hi, sandy. >> hello. i want to commend you for doing an excellent series. the question i have is probably twofold. the main one is the presidential library. i know that the first lady in their service, will it be in honolulu or chicago? >> you would be more likely to know. >> no one knows. we know they have formed a committee to begin to think about the library and where it will be.

they will begin soliciting, i guess you would call them bids, from cities. chicago is on the list. i hear new york. president obama spent time at columbia. hawaii will put in a bid and there will be other cities that they pass through. there is a sense that chicago makes sense in part because the political start was there and they got to their roots. at this point, it doesn't seem settled. in chicago, there are different locations they hope will eventually get the library. >> we will fast-forward. the bid for the u.s. senate and coming to washington. the decision to start running for president. how much a part of that decision was michelle obama? was that something the two together strategized? >> he had to convince her according to the way her brother tells the story.

first, barack obama went to michelle's brother and had a conversation with him. i think this is the opportunity and i should do this. he says, have you talked to your wife? and barack obama said, i thought you could help me with that. craig robinson met with his mother and sister and had this idea -- it was described as paving the way and as a family, they make a decision that this is something they would do. >> we will go back to the 2008 wisconsin speech. michelle obama out on the campaign trail. because another part of the

speech contains a section that has stayed with her throughout her tenure in office. let's listen. [video clip] >> what we have learned over the year is that hope is making a comeback. it is making a comeback. [applause] let me tell you something -- for the first time in my adult lifetime, i am really proud of my country. [applause] not just because barack has done well but because i think people are hungry for change. and i have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction. and not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. i have seen people who are hungry to be unified around some basic issues and it made me proud. >> tonight on our facebook page, people were quoting that line years later. talking about her view of american society.

has she talked about what she was saying and what she was trying to say? >> i think she did. she did soon after talk about that. in fact, at the time, she had said and expressed things in different ways. what happened in that moment was the political press had not been paying much attention to her. she was out mostly speaking to grassroots and supporters. i saw her a couple times on the campaign trail. people enjoyed hearing her in part because, unlike the candidates, she was not so strictly message. she spoke from her heart without a lot of notes. at that time, the democratic grassroots found that refreshing. then comes this moment where this one line is taken from this speech. it begins to define her.

the campaign has to immediately snap into action and begin to create a different story around her because one emerges that is not favorable. >> any comments on that narrative and how it's defined her and the opposition used it to create a narrative about the president? >> it lined up with they would -- reverend wright and all sorts of used as evidence that she was unhappy with america. she was talking a lot about that time and she would talk about racial division. she was say there are white students here and black students here and i know what that is like. you need to come together. she will talk about america being isolated. people fighting a war. people at home are going shopping. a sense that there was a coming together that still needed to happen.

that is where that was coming from. the campaign kicked into gear after that. that was not another episode like that. >> during the primary, hillary clinton was the rival of barack obama. will you comment about this interesting relationship of the former first lady and ultimately, she is defeated by this opponent and goes on to serve as his secretary of state and has a first lady that she can give guidance to? how did the relationship work out between the two women? >> it is interesting because during the 2008 primary, it becomes a dogfight toward the end. they are grasping. it got ugly at some point. you had two really defined camps within the democratic party.

the clintonites and obamaites. the quetion of whether everybody was going to be able to come together in a very natural way. and this idea that hillary clinton would serve as secretary of state in terms of mending those bridges. early on in obama's term, michelle obama goes over to the state department. they have some interaction. they are very warm to each other publicly. that was another moment of coming together. michelle obama has been a different kind of first lady. in many ways, she relied on laura bush giving her guidance on how things would operate in the east wing. hillary clinton has an office in the west wing which was different. >> after the reverend wright controversy, michelle and barack went to nbc and talked to the "today show" about the issue.

we got a chance to see them interacting. we will show a short clip and talk about how they used the national media to present a portrait of themselves. [video clip] >> you never sit in there and get upset about these? >> i never get upset. no. >> she gets -- >> cool and calm. >> i take the paper and ball it up and throw it in the corner. of course. there are frustrations. [laughter] >> she gets protective of me. >> i love my husband. you do not want anybody to talk poorly about the people that you love. quite frankly, i think he has handled this stuff. you know, i am so proud of how

he has maintained his dignity and his cool and honor. i know you're trying to cut me off talking nicely about you. >> i get embarrassed. [laughter] >> but -- i know. i appreciate that. >> what can we take away from that? >> it is always interesting to see them interacting with each other. the sort of playfulness. the way they sometimes pick at each other and joke with each other. they genuinely enjoy being with each other. that more than anything, the idea of family. and this relationship in addition to president obama addressing some of the issues around reverend wright controversy and the speech that he gave on race did much to toss that issue out of the window. >> john mccain chose sarah

as his vice presidential pick. i wonder if that engendered a national discussion about women in politics. >> yes, but not a very coherent conversation. what struck me about michelle obama is she did define herself as mom-in-chief. that had a big effect on changing her image. one thing you saw was before the election, her polls were high with the democrats. after the election and the inauguration, her favorable polls with conservative women. presented herself as a mother did a lot to change her image. and it is something that women of hillary clinton's generation could not say of themselves.

you cannot have a photo of your children if you wanted to be seen as a credible working woman. >> too soft. >> you are not supposed to do that and you were supposed be all there at the workplace. i felt that was like a generational difference between the two women. >> we will look at the convention where people of both parties who watched and sized up the candidates. they had a chance to see michelle obama before this national audience. [video clip] >> what struck me when i met barack was even though he had a funny name and even though he had grown up across the continent in hawaii, his family was so much like mine. he was raised by grandparents who were working class folks just like my parents. and by a single mother who struggled to pay the bills just like we did. and like my family, they saved so he could have opportunities that they never had for themselves. barack and i were raised with so many of the same values. like you work hard for what you want in life.

your word is your bond and you do what you say you are going to do. [applause] you treat people with dignity and respect even if you do not know them and even if you do not agree with them. >> what was she doing there? >> introducing herself and her husband to the american public. the guy with the funny name. and really -- she did a lot of that early on during the campaign. the role of the first lady in the modern campaign has been to humanize the candidate to help people connect with who he is as a person. what he is about and what he is like at home. in her campaign -- some speech

she would talk about he leaves his socks out sometimes and he snores. he is a real guy. and talking about him as a man. >> i think it was more important because she was also americanizing him, she was confirming he has a funny name. i thought he had a funny name when i first heard of him. and then when i met him, i realized he was just as american. i think she walked the audience through that process. >> david is watching from utah. >> thank you. first off, thank you c-span and the white house association for this series. i have learned a lot. my question is, i know one of the issues michelle obama has

been interested in is military families. do the panelists know where the issue originated from and how she has influenced military families today? >> yes, she got involved with the issue of military families really early on during the campaign, she talks about having met, in many cases, women who were raising their families without their husbands who were away at war and being moved by their sacrifices. and wanting to do something for not only the veterans, but their families who were left behind and realizing that like herself, most americans do not have a relative who is serving in the military. she along with joe biden and joe biden's wife, who had children who have joined armed forces,

they have done more than visit families and go to bases. she went to the business roundtable and spoke to ceos of top companies about the need to hire more veterans and their families. and some companies have signed pledges to say how many they would hire. it is a program that is multifaceted. she said she plans to continue it throughout her time in the white house. >> 2008, election night. the obamas are victorious. we have one of the iconic pictures of the two of them. can you comment about the significance of that night? >> well, you know, they were going to be in history books regardless because they are firsts.

it comes the moment when that history is made and you see in the photos the jubilation amongst their supporters there. a very divided electorate. you heard afterwards, many people on both sides of the aisle, who took pride in the country for having at least eclipsed that barrier. and as the president himself said, he thinks people were excited about that. he said something like for about five minutes and then they want to know what you are going to do. they faced that pretty quickly this idea that they do not only wanted to be history making for having achieved this really remarkable you know, of being the first but to leave a legacy that is greater than that.

>> remembering they came in during the 2008 financial crisis. people were wanting them to get to work. we had an interview at c-span with first lady in 2009. she talked about her approach to it. >> i think every first lady brings a unique perspective to this job. if you did not, you could not live through it. to the extent that it feels natural to me at any level and i never would have thought living in the white house and being first lady would feel natural. it is because i try to make it me. i try to bring a little bit of michelle obama into this. at the same time, respecting and valuing the tradition that is america. >> they reached out to laura bush for ways in which they might emulate the approach she took to the role of first lady. >> lean onto some of that

knowledge. it is a significant -- michelle obama had not been a governor's wife. she did not have the experience of setting up shop in that way. she had to figure out how to do that. she got help there. nancy reagan came in and they had lunch. i am told some of nancy reagan's advice was to have a lot of state dinners. she talks to those who knows as she prepares for this role. >> she went out to visit cabinet agencies which was an unusual thing for first ladies to do and homeless shelters and meeting with local officials. we have an article that you wrote about another thing she did which was unusual was that she really lived in washington, d.c. you have a story called "michelle obama's washington,"

over the course of her first term. all of the areas that she visited and went out to work in and made speeches and went to restaurants. how does that differ from other first families in this town? >> it was interesting because she made this place home. i was able to talk to her. she visited the agencies and went out to restaurants with girlfriends and her daughters being in school here. she's at soccer games and catching shows at the local theaters. getting to know the place outside of politics. that is not only rare for first families but for political families in washington in general where you folks jetting back to their home states every weekend. the idea of spending time in washington is almost like bad

for your political life. she made a concerted effort to get to know this place and this city and town. as i was putting the list together of all of the places she had been, i had colleagues saying she has been to more restaurants in town than i have. she has not allowed the white house to be as martha washington said something like a prison. the idea that you cannot get outside this bubble. she found ways to do it. >> including visiting places like target in the suburbs. is she alone in doing things like that? are they able to sneak away? >> i -- sometimes, for her in terms of being alone with her family, it means leaving washington. going to camp david or someplace where she can walk around and not to be the target of people.

>> other modern first ladies have done similar things. laura bush went antiquing and would check out the shops. the idea that you have to find some way to maintain a life outside of just the structures of the white house. >> bill clinton would go running. not so much hillary clinton. i felt like the clintons had a presence in washington as well. >> the media really has covered the first lady extensively. we have graphics of the number of magazine covers that have been done on her. you wrote a book. there were lots of books coming out about michelle obama in various parts of her life. is there something special about this first lady?

>> there is intense interest at the beginning. i think a willingness to engage the public outside of the traditional press corps. and the magazine covers are one example of that.the magazine coe example of that. ue" to "ng from "vog amtrak magazine" to essence. you are speaking to them in a personal way, in the same way that she is on urban radio and directly. people derek cl bothe thing i want to ask of you, this is pretty tough stuff, the covers of women's magazines, and social media, you

are both journalists who want to cover this woman and white house , how helpful have they been to you? >> part of that is bypassing the traditional media. , they was writing my book were not accessible. they were being very careful about her public image. it was after the, does she like her country? episode. they were being careful and not making her accessible. i had to find other ways to report the story. >> here's another clip that demonstrates the obama administration's approach to the entertainment media to help leave us with a impression of the first family. [applause] >> thank you.

welcome to the white house, everyone. i am honored to introduce this yours nominees for best picture. >> this is my midlife crisis. i could not get a sports car. they would not let me bungee jump. >> you went for the hair. [laughter] ♪ >> woooo! [applause] >> take it from me, eating the right foods can help make you a better athlete. i was wondering if you can do more push-ups than i can do. >> it depends on how your back is. i know you've got these back issues. [applause]

15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22.21. >> it has been fascinating, since television arrived in the late 1950's, you mentioned jacqueline kennedy and her tour , to watch howouse the political campaigns have used this medium to communicate with the public and portray and image. how is this white house doing? how is the public receiving it? >> it is fascinating to look at the way that she is collapse the space between pop culture and politics in the public in the way that she is operated in that, creating videos that go viral on youtube. she is on instagram.

she is not just on instagram, but she is posting photos and really engaging in a way that captures kind of the public imagination. that through the filter of the mainstream press. you're constantly cultivating an image and being very present in the lives of everyday people. and she is a popular figure. i don't know everyone's phone numbers now. but she is one of the most popular figures in the democratic party. to have her be such a public presence, with a team like the miami heat, and the basketball thing that got shared around so much, is a interesting and strategic way to look at her public image. >> i want to do two things. i want to look at some of the key events that have happened during the president's terms of

our. we also have a graphic that compares the president and the first ladies. let's take a look at key events in this presidency, which included the 2008 financial crisis and all the fermentations thereof. and afghanistan wars. the 2010 election, which brought the republicans in. so many aspects to that story, including the closing of the government, and the debt ceiling. osama bin laden's killing. trackedhow research has the president and first lady's approval rating. the president story has been one of coming down over time.

the first lady has been higher and consistent along the way. obama 68%, 66%, fairly consistent. to what do we owe that? >> the management and intending of her public image. the approach to the media. the fact that the family does seem to be flourishing. it is and remains a very appealing family tableau. and the issues that she has chosen. they are not hard issues. let's move campaign. with literacyines and traditional first lady's issues like that. >> the question i have for you

is regarding mrs. obama and dr. biden. it seems they work so well together. do mrs. obama and mrs. i then go out and socialize together? >> that is an interesting question. >> i wrote a piece about dr. campaign,ng the 2012 and so got to talk to some of her staff and see her. she made the point that they work well together. they are friendly, but they both have very busy lives, and so the idea that they are sort of socializing and hanging out there regularly, that just does not happen. in addition to being the vice president's wife with comes with some official duties, she teaches at a local community college.

she is an english professor. often when she was traveling during the campaign, she would be grading papers and that kind of thing. idea that they are just enjoying one another's company does not happen very often. she was able to continue to pursue her career, but that is so far something the first lady has not been able to do. you mentioned that she chose noncontroversial issues, including eating well and the let's move campaign. >> someone argue with you about that. >> from facebook comments, it it is controversial. we have clips of her talking to young people at the white house. these were students brought in from washington dc, and it'll happen happened with a c-span event from a competition.

one of the students did a documentary about let's move, and mrs. obama met with students. let's watch a little bit of that. >> the platform of the white house is really helpful in getting attention to stuff. when i do something, camera show up and people tend to watch and write about it. sometimes they write about more than what i am wearing. i think that it is my job to help shine the light on things that are already working. that is one of the reasons why i chose this is my initiative. i also think that one of the reasons -- the way that i think we can move this effort -- one of the reasons i think we can be successful is that it does not require, i don't believe, and others may have struggled more, it does not require whole scale changes in your life.

the beauty about kids is that you are young. ,our metabolisms are healthy which essentially means that want to start moving and eating right, you guys change really quickly. you are growing. and everything is working right. if we make some little changes, anchor you guys moving more. on little less tv. we take out sugary drinks. we make school lunches better. we get you guys educated about what to eat. these are things we can get under control. and does not take a whole lot of legislation to get it done. rely onot have to people passing stuff to move this along. >> the sugary drinks were a problem for people and the school lunches. >> a lot of money is tied up in the food industry. there is also some shouted g and how you address these issues.

strategy and how you address these issues. a part of the is nanny state and telling kids what she cannot eat. in the video she talks about not needing to pass legislation. but she was supportive of the legislation that changed school lunches, which in some corners has been a bit controversial. , asideere big changes teenagers making videos about not having as much junk food, people are trying to figure out how to implement these things. there is support in some corners, and not so much in others. -- we havephotograph a photograph.

this is part of the white house grounds. >> as the first lady wrote her "ardening book, which made the list,rk times" bestseller the proceeds of the book are going to a foundation that is supportive of the garden. will be money there for it even after the obama's are gone. >> there used to be animals grazing. >> right. i think that was the wilson administration. don'ther part that we see, the influence she had on the president, what is known about how she has been able to move him in a direction on causes that matter to her, from a public aspect of? progressive.tty

ed aboutmily talk same-sex marriage before he came out in support of it. she was for it. inwas a family conversation the stump speech before the the president came out for same-sex marriage. about notlking discriminating against people because of who they love. that line was in her speech. it did not generate a lot of headlines. she has made it clear where she has been on that issue. during her time in the white house, it was this moment where she was with the first lady of mexico, they were in the school -- i think they were in the suburbs -- and there is a young girl who was in the audience. they were having a conversation about something related to healthy eating. she raised her hands and said, what should i do?

my mom does not have papers? that was a gripping moment. it is hard to imagine that there weren't conversations back at the white house about this encounter. >> liz from delaware. >> thank you for the program. i have been enjoying it. i would like to ask how michelle obama interacted or felt about her in-laws. i know family tends to be important to them. i was wondering how much they met with each other. >> thank you so much. on twitter, they asked the same question. >> that is a really good question. and i cannot answer it at length. they did meet. she would not have met barack obama's father. >> we have a picture there.

>> i do not know a great deal about the relationship. i do not think it was close. deal? -- do you? >> i do not. about how much time they had to spend together. >> tomorrow night they were be a state dinner at the white house. we have asked in each program about being a steward of the white house. how has mrs. obama approach life in the white house? what has she done for the mention, and how has she done it differently? >> we talked about the garden a bit. that has been a signature. it seems to be the part that she is most excited about. we see her regularly going out for this kind of ceremonial planting, harvesting, and being

out there with children, but also using the house. she referred to it as the people's house. this idea that people who have never been to the white house should be welcomed in, and what are ways to do that? the kind of bring in a people who have never been there before. you see school children coming through for workshops. celebrity giving a musical performance, there will be a workshop earlier in the day with students from local schools, so this idea that you can use it as a third spates, or in some ways, a community center , i think is a little fresh and different. >> for number of years, in the beginning of it the administration it was closed because of the initial downturn. restrictions were happening. interface thannt previous administrations.

we have only 15 minutes left. you mentioned that after the , sheion, once it was won spoke about issues she would be more involved in. one of those is clearly going to be education. we have a clip from an historically black college where the first lady talks about education is important. >> in many parts of this country it was illegal for black people to get an education. or writinght reading could be eaten within an inch of their lives. anyone, black or white, who dared to teach them could be fined or thrown into jail. yet, two years after the emancipation proclamation was signed, the school was founded to educate african-americans and

teach them how to educate others. it was in many ways an act of defiance, and eloquent rebuttal of the idea that black people could not or should not be educated. than 150 years after the emancipation proclamation, more than 50 years after the end of separate but equal, when it toos to getting education, many of our young people cannot be bothered. miles instead of walking to school, they are sitting on couches for hours playing video games and watching tv, instead of dreaming of being a teacher, lawyer, or business leader, they are fantasizing about being a baller or a rapper. >> what can we expect in the years ahead? >> i was there when she gave that speech. i don't know if you could hear the applause clearly there. it was very well received.

in addition to the healthy eating and military families, there was connectivity that you could see that she had with these audiences where she was talking about issues around education. it became clear to her staff, so they planned to develop this issue of education as one that mostill be focused on, closely on the students, working with the department of education. high school students, particularly those who are early in their high school years, they need to be preparing themselves for college. going through the minute shot of it. just last week she was at a seminar where they were talking about financial aid forms. where shene a video shared some of her experience when she first got the princeton. she did not have shoes long enough for her bed.

these kinds of things, the idea that she knows what it feels like not to be completely prepared for the process, but that you can go through it anyway, that you can be successful, and really, again, this idea of role modeling these things, and saying there is no magic here. that is the message. >> portland, oregon. you are on. >> i want to say to the host and guests, that my family and my mother are really enjoying the show. i have a quick question. former texas governor ann richards and barbara jordan said that women have a double standard. obamak that michelle example vice going about her own purpose. i want to say this is a great show. is there possible consideration for a hillary clinton and michelle obama ticket in 2016?

>> they wonder whether or not the first lady has political ambitions of her own. >> they often asked that. they draw the parallel between her and hillary clinton because they're both lawyers. i am interested to hear what you think. i do not think she will run for office. hillary clinton had a passion for policy early on. >> it is interesting. manyas said emphatically times that this is not something she is interested in. some politicians say that, and you know in the back of their mind that they will run. but she is expensive about it. she says she doesn't have the personality for it, that she is too impatient for running for office. especially innse, the way that we are talking about messaging, and the way that she enjoys connecting,

going through the rigors of dealing with the political press would not be something she would enjoy. i think that she will be making an impact after the white house. >> she will stand public life somehow. >> definitely. know twitter they want to how is she changing the role of first lady that first ladies will emulate or model? >> the way that she is engaged with entertainment and pop-culture has been, in some ways, ground breaking. as a reporter who covers her, when i saw her at the oscars, it was like a head turning kind of moment. what is the first lady doing on the oscars? her staff talk about it later. she loves the movies. and the idea that you could do it. and that there was an invitation. inbe some of these folks hollywood would come and support her programs to help give.

so really getting out side of the strictures of politics. i think that that is a trail that she has blazed that may be there for other first ladies. >> we looked at the approval ratings. high 60's. but she has had some criticism. she has used some phrases, as a surrogate for her husband. about howour comments she is approach that? comment aboute a sometimes they write about something other than what i'm wearing. but she has cultivated the public image of being fashionable. she is quite interested in her close, as well. then,k, every now and there has been a misstep in

terms of taking expensive vacations at a time when someone is really suffering. much toas not had to do animate folks who don't like or. her. we looked at the poll numbers earlier. the favorable and unfavorable rate have been steady. about one quarter of the american public does not like the first lady. that is not uncommon. you hear from them on issues like the healthy eating. ,hen she shows up on the oscars there are folks who are, why is she everywhere? universal been a lovefest. that is for sure. >> you write in your book, and this is sort of the

behind-the-scenes, and how she organizes the staff around her, she has had some turnover. you write that she is a better boss and employee. she likes to be in charge, and she doesn't like pretend to be wasted. think, i don't think that would surprise anybody. we don't see that person a lot, but it'll think it would surprise anybody. she does have a forceful and charismatic personality. when she was in high school, she was terrified for public speaking. she had to work on the courage to give public speeches when she was running for office. boy, she has really grown into a role where she is so comfortable having fun and giving speeches. she has found the spotlight. >> let's take a call from jackie who is watching us in texas. >> thank you so much for taking my phone call.

i have two questions. which first lady do you think michelle obama is most similar to? if youond question is could arrange for michelle obama to have dinner with any of the first ladies, which one would it be and why? >> those are great comments, as we close the michelle obama program and close up the series. do you have a response is for? >> she gets compared to hillary clinton. i do not think she is like hillary clinton. she gets compared to jackie onassis. i think in some ways the glimmer and the harnessing of culture i would make more of a comparison there. you can kind of compare them because there is some jackie nessus and the cultivation of the image and family. and you can see a little bit of laura bush and being able to maintain the popularity, being

popular with the base. she was also popular fundraiser with her party. hillary clinton is a more difficult comparison. i think that michelle obama is ambitious in her own way, just as hillary clinton clearly is. you can take slices of the modern first ladies. i think the show obama told c-span that it is the modern first ladies that she related to much more than some of the other first ladies who seemed sort of like pages of a history book. >> let's listen to the first lady talk about the role. this is from our 2009 interview. >> it is an evolutionary process. you grow into this role. my sense is that you never get comfortable if you are always pushing for change and growth, not just in yourself, but in the issues that you care about. your never done.

there is never a point time were you feel like, i am now here, and i can do this the same way all the time. it is always changing. what it is going to be one day to the next. you have to be flexible and fluid, and open to evolve. >> and on the evolution again, we are kind of coming full circle on her time that she has left, what can we expect? initiative ison going to be paramount. it is interesting because i do think that 2013 felt like a continuation of the first term, so this idea of whether things will be much different in the next few years, you have a ready seen her be busy about building this new program. but she has also said she is going to continue what she has been doing.

-- have seeny see the michelle obama that we are going to see. i do not think she was stray very far. be thee will also sending of a daughter to college, which i think will be significant, as a family. i don't know if we will see much of that. earlier.e talking to be 16, the earlier daughter this year. how you learn to drive in the white house as a teenager? it would be interesting to watch. reported about her life after the white house. >> she is representative of very women.

women's trajectories are different than men's. their careers may peak later because of the child rearing time. she has been in an intensive she will reenter the workforce in a very significant way. >> this marriage is about taking turns. maybe we bush see her turn come up. from martha washington to michelle obama, one of our early colors mentioned the white house association. they have written the biographies of all of the first ladies and helped make this special edition available to you throughout the year. they also provided the materials and research that we did to produce this series. i want to say thank you to them and to some folks along the way. those interested in preserving american history.

tonight, thankts you for helping us understand more about the life of michelle obama. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> next monday on presidents' day, we will conclude first

ladies: influence and image with a special look back at the series, from martha watch intend to michelle obama. we will look at how the role of first lady has evolved. that is starting at 9:00 p.m. on c-span radio, and c-span.org. we are offering a special edition of the book, "first ladies of the united states of america" offering a biography of each lady. it is available for the discounted price of $12.95 plus shipping. our website has more about the first ladies including a special section, welcome to the white house. it chronicles the life in the executive mansion during the tenure of each of the first ladies. you can learn more at c-span.org/firstladies. a looktson joins us for

at what is going on in congress. the house republicans had a special meeting to talk strategy on the debt limit. >> the decisions have not been made yet. john boehner presented a plan to the caucus. whipe trying to get a count on it. the plan is to raise the debt ceiling for about a year. to have a cost of living adjustment change that was made in december. basically, congress cut the future military pension by $6 billion and that caused a serious backlash. the way it would be paid for is by extending cuts to medicare. inside the meeting, some

conservatives expressed disappointment with this idea. -- they aret the trying to assess whether they can get enough votes to pass this. it remains to be seen. the one test will be to see if they can get 218 votes. the democrats have been insisting on the clean debt ceiling increase. need the majority of the republicans on board. does theind of support republican support expect from house democrats and even some republicans? >> house republicans basically said that they were looking for something that would get them aquatic support. -- democratic support.

senate just voted to proceed to a bill that endorsed the cut. it is something that as a policy matter should appeal to a large number of democrats. should go from their line of no negotiation on the debt ceiling. >> what is the timeline on the house floor? could we see a timeline that was set by the treasury secretary? >> everybody agrees that we pretty much have to. it is what they call a lax one -- black swan event. that's still a possibility. been democrats have

leaving for their annual retreat in maryland. it is happening across the day in maryland on wednesday night. next week, there is a presidents' day recess here. that is two days before the 27th deadline of the house comes back. >> where do you think the senate will take up the debt limit? passes,ther plan because of the urgency and the white house concern over it. >> americans for tax reform have already had a few group sign on. what concerns might they have? is veryr norquist influential on tax matters. this is a spending matter.

basically, most republicans have signed the no new taxes ledge. he still retains other influence on spending matters. thes important including national taxpayers union. it remains to be seen how large it will be. there were a large number of conservatives from jim jordan, matt harriman, saying that they cannot support this plan. wasson, thanks for joining us. >> thanks so much. >> the new c-span.org website gives you access to an incredible library of lyrical events with more added each day through c-span's nonstop coverage of politics, history, and nonfiction books.

hours more than 200,000 of archived c-span video. everything c-span has covered since 1980 seven. our video is all searchable and viewable on your desktop computer, tablet, or smartphone. c-span.org makes it easy to watch what is happening today in washington and find people and events from the past 25 years. it is the most comprehensive video library in politics. >> janet yellen will testify before congress as the new head of the federal reserve tomorrow morning. she will take hutchins from members of the house financial services committee about financial policy and next month's jobs report. coverage at 10:00 a.m. on c-span3. you can join the conversation on

facebook and twitter. later in the day, more coverage of the white house state and therefore french president hollande. hollande was elected president in 2012, defeating nicolas sarkozy. september, scotland will vote on whether it should be independent from the united income. last week, members of the british house of commons took up that referendum. here is part of that debate. >> thank you. >> can i also congratulate the honorable member for this important and all too short debate today. i think it is only fair to the people watching this program

that they get the opportunity -- >> order, order. >> can you confirm that next tuesday afternoon the scottish national party are in control of that -- national business and they have not tabled a motion to discuss independence for scotland? >> it is on the record . it does not need my confirmation. ce, for anhan opportunity. on september 18 of this year, we can make the choice once again to become a self-governing nation. the national self-respect and dignity like all normal, independent nations do. being responsible for ourselves. what is the most exciting thing for me is that our independence

will release and ignite energy, creativity, and imagination as we get about building and creating our new independent nation. a new independent nation according to scottish priorities builds on our sense of community. we vote for pursuing the agenda that we want. of course they will run an independent scotland better for one key and very important fact. we care more about scotland. of course we do. that is why we will run it better. never again will we have a tory government without a democratic consent. no more of senate he said. -- obsenties.

no more illegal wars. of masstories destruction, destroying our beautiful country. >> order. a little calm. it has been a goodhearted debate so far. nobody wants to spoil the harmony. >> thank you very much. secure ay after we do new nation, it will be pretty much like the day before. something remarkable will have happened. all of the sudden, this will be hours to shape and determine. it could change, because we have the power. we have the power of independent. our nation will be the home for us for the first time in 300 years.

nothing could be more exciting and transformative than that. it's all down to this choice. no, this is as good as it gets. to signal a contentment with westminster rule and the ability to deliver for scotland. >> my honorable friend will referendum the first and979, he said, vote no, you will get more power. you remember what happened. we got absolutely nothing. >> we have warm memories. be saying no, we will

that we approve of western-style government and whatever the rest of the u.k. decides for us. i don't like it a lot. one was last week's appalling immigration bill. visitors to our country fees for health care. sty, pernicious, rotten bill designed to counter a threat. yet, we will get this bill because this government took it through. beingct to my country dragged into this monstrous race to the bottom between this

government. thosen be the hardest on that want to live in my country? scotland is better than this. it ascended to the house of lords, who defeated it. party placement, cronies, and donors. then they also have the affront to defile the memory and insult the many brave people that have served this country because they support independence for our nation. get, --g that we will unelected chamber from scottish life. our nation will be much better for that. we believe scotland is so much better than that. we know if we gained control of our own resources, there is

nothing to stop us from becoming an economic powerhouse. that is what we look forward to. is pu honorable member tting an emotional case for independence, but he is not taking on the wise words from the bank of england about the illusion of independence if you keep the pound and sterling in an independent scotland. you will take away the voice of scotland in a very core monetary policy. works it is a choice for negativity or positivity. >> order. i want to hear the honorable gentleman. i want to hear the speech.

it is a possibility to listen to the other side. that is know who thinks at an attractive proposition. it is a choice between negativity and positivity. no other country has done what we are about to do. as an exercise in democracy, this is huge. this is scotland's great choice. as good asde if this it gets or we could decide to do something much bigger. to take control of ourselves. to put the nation in the hands of the scottish people. this is probably a once in a generation chance to do this. vote yes in overwhelming numbers in the course of this debate and we go to the polls in

september, we will vote yes for a country of our own. you, mr. deputy speaker. i am very honored for this opportunity to contribute to this important debate very i congratulate the members of glouchester northeast. i want to make principally an emotional argument. the 18th of september is my birthday. ofant to celebrate the 18th september for many years to come probably with a glass or two of malt celebrating my country. i do not want it to be a permanent reminder of the day my country was lost. my nationality is british. my country is the united kingdom. i want to speak up for my constituents and everybody on my

side of the border who feel the same way. >> resisted. thinkort of point do you the people of scotland would like to give the mp on the 18th of september? >> there are some very good distilleries. i would be very happy to send them a list. perhaps you could find me one. we have over 300 years of a forced special identity. the does not diminish importance of the history or culture of the constituent parts of the united kingdom. this is initially a marriage where you have two separate families coming together. over the centuries, those two families forged something unique to gather through the generations. a shared identity comes about. throughthat, going

disaster, adversity, or opportunity, something special is created. we dismantle that at our peril. the second point i make is the fundamental flaw at the heart of the mp's position. it is not a proposal i agree with. there is a logical part of the argument. scotland as a separate nation should become independent , shape its own future. apart from the huge emotional , there are many uncertainties and other costs that would flow. i understand the emotional appeal and the logic that goes behind it. what is not logical is to go through all that pain, all that cost, all that uncertainty, only

to argue that this new independent, sovereign country, nothing would change here it the honorable gentleman admits to this himself. the day after, it would be the same. why go through all of that? particularly on the point of currency union. i do not agree with jim, the former member of this house and the former deputy leader and the one-time ally. timesticle in "the sunday " was spot on. a currency is a badge of sovereignty printed by a sovereign government. that will be the badge of the united kingdom. get sovereignty, you transfer it and you lose it. that is what would happen with a separate scotland.

should independence happened, scotland, england, the rest of the united kingdom would survive. i do not subscribe to the. that we would be reduced to some economic wasteland. this does not permit me to go into all of the arguments on the practicality. the strength of the union is greater than the sum of its parts. if we split up, we are all diminished. >> i thank the honorable gentleman for allowing me to speak. can i point out that the influence of scotland is enormous? there are three stewards on this side. scotland has huge influence in the united kingdom and should remain with united kingdom. >> my fellow klansman proves the point eloquently.

england does this by being part of the united kingdom. we are stronger together. devolution is a dynamic process. that was the intention when the initial scotland act was passed. in 2012 we passed a further scotland act which contains within it a substantial transfer of powers. bringing fiscal powers from this place. it is a transfer that contains huge implications, particularly for businesses in scotland as they reach out to the new fiscal arrangements. i support that. it makes them more responsible for the money that they spend. that is much welcome in my constituency in england, as i know it does in scotland. the sensible way is to let that

major change happen. then we can see if there are further practical changes that can be introduced so that we have the optimal arrangement between scotland, england, and the rest of the united and him. -- united kingdom. ofes vote on the 18th september would represent. i want to conclude by returning to my principal point. whatever the economic argument, the strategic argument, the practical argument about scotland remaining a part of the united kingdom, for me, the principal point is an emotional one. this is my country. i will not rest until we see a no vote on the 18th of september.

i do not want to swap my country were having some dual citizenship or whatever arrangement would come about. i am british. i want to stay british. i will fight with every fiber in my body to keep us british. such a vocalfor contribution. i want to speak about the reasons why scotland is stronger when we scare -- share our resources as a united and him. it is about the things that we will never change. the second is about things that will not change. what has become apparent is that from thenalist plan -- negotiation boxx into the box -- of things that would not change.

it is pretty clear that the motivation for that move is to create an atmosphere where the people of scotland feel the separation. i feel like the campaign changed the strategy. that is based on a deceit. many people have made their views known. most recently, the governor of the bank of england. make positive contributions to the argument on both sides. , this hasce on record been abused by those in power. the weight of the paper i have document that would answer all of the questions on independence. and it doesn't. government must explain why taxpayer money was

used to create this document. the cabinet office and the head of the civil service should explain why the impartiality of the service has been compromised. at me give you two examples. has aottish government range. cutwestminster government the coalition of conservative parties and the westminster parliament -- what do you take from those statements? it does not mention the united kingdom parliament. the westminster parliament and the westminster government, they do not exist. it is fundamentally incorrect. why would this be published at the taxpayers expense? it does not end there. each page is filled with

similar, half designed comments. there is one example that really makes my blood boil. one that the honorable member mentioned moments ago. abolition of the tax, which will save 82,500 households in householdsnd 15,500 with children, an average of 30 pounds per month. what could be more despicable and reprehensible than people preying on the fears and the concerns of the most vulnerable people in scotland? designed to create the impression that scottish parliament could not remove this with independence. this week, i their own actions

-- honorable friend is making a very, very powerful speech. also seeing that the powers of the scottish government can be used. do you think the people of the scottish government will be asking serious questions from the government? >> absolutely. there are many more examples. each page of that document is filled with deceit. it is not fair that the people of scotland, when they should be relying on informative documents -- scotland is part of the most successful political and economic union that i have ever seen. if people vote no. >> it's also the case that the

u.k. has not been invaded by a foreign body for over 750 years. shouldn't that in itself demonstrate just how successful the union has been? he is correct. thele vote no in referendum. they can we get knowing they will keep it down knowing that we will remain members of the united kingdom and retain the european union membership and they will know that brave men and women are looking after their national security and much more. tose are not subject negotiation.