prime minister's questions will not be shown tonight. you can watch question time when it returns this wednesday live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span 2 or next sunday at 9:00 p.m. and 12:00 midnight eastern time on c-span. >> coming up next, c-span's american profile series featuring two interviews from capitol hill. north dakota senator heidi hike can and south dakota this -- south dakota senator john thune. then, a discussion about security at the olympic games. >> next a conversation with heidi heitkamp.

>> senator heidi heitkamp, a democrat from north dakota. i want to begin with one of your campaign ads. you describe your mom as a janitor, your dad as someone who never finished high school and you are one of seven. what was that like? >> we did not think it was all that rare. back then, a lot of people in the world war ii generation did not finish high school, who had to help out on the farm. an eighth grade education was considered the most you could ascribe to. for us, it was not odd. our dad was always a community leader and so we never thought about education as being what you learned in school. education was what you did and how you learned in real life. my dad was a community leader and my mom was the protector of the underadvantaged. the worst thing you could commit from my mother was to pick on another kid. when i was born, my mother had 4 kids and the oldest was 2 and

they had no twins. we came in rapid succession. by the time my mom was done, my brother, my youngest brother, joel, my mom had seven kids in nine years. and this was before disposable diapers. life was interesting. to give you a sense of our family, we did not have a lot. we knew that we were not going to college. in the 1960's, the program started becoming available not just for veterans, but for all kids. that has had a huge impact in my life, a huge impact in the life of my entire family. so we were taught -- education, education, education. when my mother was asked what she was most proud of, i thought it would be that we all went to college. she said no, the thing i am most proud of is that they are all each other's best friends. and that is still true today.

we are all very close. >> your dad passed away, but your mom is alive. what is she like? >> she unfortunately has advanced parkinson's, so she has had to live in a nursing home. that has been tough for someone who has been independent her whole life. she has given us so many values that we carry forward. one of those, for me, is the ability to stand among a group of people who do not at all agree with you and say things that are unpopular. my dad was much more of a crowd pleaser, much more of a sit back, listen, see how you can persuade quietly. my mom was full speed ahead. she never took a deep breath and never paused in telling someone what she believed. >> how many boys and how many girls? >> 2 boys, 4 sisters, five of us girls.

the advantage is, i was right in the middle. the other advantage is that i was not the same size as my sisters. as far as sharing close and who got to wear what, i escaped all of that. my sisters are all very accomplished and quite capable. to give you a story, and i know a lot of people do not believe this, but when i first introduced my husband, i brought him home for the weekend and we were dating. when we got into the car to leave, he said, if you would have told me you are the quietest person in your family, i would not have believed it. a very opinionated but fun-loving group. >> you described your husband as a shy farmboy. is he? >> absolutely. he just does not like the limelight. he does not like being out there. very shy and unwilling to put

himself out there. i will tell you this. one of the things that happened with my husband -- my husband is very bright. he could have probably done almost anything with his life and chose to go into family medicine rather than surgery or something where there may not have been as much interaction. i think in family medicine, over the years, i have seen him develop the personal skills that you need to be a family physician. i can tell you really honestly, his patients love him and one of the reasons he is not here is that we promised the patients that we would not be moving to washington dc if i won. >> where did you meet him? >> he was working as a researcher in a nutrition lab and i was finishing college. did not really like him the first time i met him. he was friends of my roommate's boyfriend.

they were playing cards and this piece of art, i thought it was quite lovely. it was like an off-loom weaving. he was playing cards and he said, are you the one doing that? and i said, yeah. he said, if you are going to put that much work into it, it should at least look good. that was it. i was done. i actually came here first semester and worked on the hill. when i came back, i had other friends who also knew him. got to know him a little bit better than that one experience. >> have you forgiven him from that line? >> well, it was true. [laughter] it was hard to feel really bad about it because it was not attractive. so he has a firm grasp of the obvious. but he could zip it up and not say it out loud i thought. >> two children children, a boy and a girl.

>> alicia ruth, 28 years old, and mason dennis. they are both really active. great kids. both curly redheads and great personalities. they are fortunate that they have the sense of humor of my husband, which makes them interesting people, i think. >> your legal name is mary kathryn. how did you get heidi? >> i grew up in a very small catholic community. when i was growing up, the two classes, whether it was first and second, third or fourth, all in the same classroom. at that time, there was a small group of girls, and a lot of mary's. mary beth and she was betsy. mary ann, mary jo, and then there was a mary kathryn. my parents never call me mary. my name was kathy. but my best friend's name was

kathy. she decided in the third grade that she would rename me. she was a voracious reader and had already read hundreds of books and "heidi" was one of her favorite books and she gave me the name and it stuck. >> how did your parents change it from kathy to heidi? >> well, they resisted. i do not know that they adapted all that well even when i went to college. it was a matter of whether it would be kathryn or something easier to work with and it just stuck. i live in a small community where nicknames are really common. i could talk about the kids i went eyes go with and tell you that most of them, to this day, they would still be known by their nicknames and not their christian names. >> when did you first leave north dakota for vacation, a

trip, an internship? >> the first time was 1976. i came here to do an internship in congress and spent a semester here when i was a junior in college. >> when did you first think of a career in politics? >> i did not think a lot about a career in politics. what i was interested in was public policy. i was interested in how government worked, being the person who worked in government. so i worked here on capitol hill for something called the environmental study conference. i am sure some of your listeners would remember that name. back in the day, very moderate republican from new york, but very active in the environmental movement in the 1970's. i worked with that group then it was more of a think tank. they did a lot of research for members. back then, there were not as

many staff people so you had these study groups that would provide the expertise to members who joined the group. i worked for the environmental study conference and thought, ok, the federal government, i saw how it worked. this is pretty exciting. i went back to college and was encouraged to do an internship. i became a legislative intern in 1977. i saw for the first time that state politics actually provided a real avenue for discussion, a real avenue to get things done. and that it was important. i had a very influential professor who reminded me that there were three branches of government and state and local were very important as well. so i then realized that i probably wanted to work in state government, which is why, when i

moved back to north dakota after going to law school and spent a small time here, went to work for ken conrad, his attorney, and when he was elected to the senate, i was appointed. >> let me ask you about the race that you won, but first, the race that you lost. you ran for governor. what did you learn from losing? >> i have a whole list of things that i have learned through losing. a lot of folks may recall that i was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer in september of that race. after the race was over, i got a lot of invitations to come and talk about how cancer changed my life or what it was like having cancer. in the middle of a race. i said, that was not the thing that had a huge impact on me. what had a huge impact was losing a race. having a trajectory, thinking

this is the job i am going to be doing, and all of a sudden, you get up on january 1, which is when the transition happened, i was still attorney general until december, and you no longer have a place to go in the morning. the kind of introspection that happens as a result of all of that. first, i would tell you that i think politicians in general have a real need to be liked. with all due apologies to sally field, i used to call it the sally field syndrome. you like me, you really like me. at the end of the day, you have to like yourself. you have to believe in what you are saying. that maybe is not as important that everyone likes you. i used to win races by 66%. i would wake up the next morning and wonder why the other 34% is not like me. you get over that.

you have to take positions that people do not like. as long as you know why you are doing it, it is easier to live with yourself. i also learned that people are fundamentally good. during the race, i know that the majority of people in north dakota did not vote to send me to the statehouse, but they all prayed for me. i would not be here without those prayers. it has made me very appreciative for the goodness of people. >> let me ask you about your health. before the diagnosis, did you have any suspicions? >> not really. when you are in a campaign like that, you are not even paying attention. what is the next think? what do i need to know for this meeting?

what do i need to do that day? it was not until one night that i noticed a lump under my arm and said, whoa. went to the doctor and they said it was probably an infection. take some antibiotics and come back in a couple of weeks. i am not very good at routines. i would go a couple of days and realize i had not taken any antibiotics. i said, it is better to get a biopsy. even from the time i was wheeled in to get the biopsy done, i did not think i had cancer. it was kind of a shock. but i never, in the whole while that i was dealing with cancer, i never thought it was going to result or that it was terminal. my husband, who knows more than i do, said to me once, you know, you just need to know that you are in denial. you are in denial about how serious this is.

to which i said, so what? what do you want me to do, wake up in the morning and say this is serious and i have to -- you know, it just seemed like a better course to assume you are going to be ok. i think that i can tell very funny stories about going through chemotherapy and losing your hair in the middle of a campaign and what that means for poor staff, trying to manage that challenge as well as all of the other challenges of a very competitive governor's race. i just never looked at it as a real serious health challenge. because of that, i think i was able to just kind of put one foot in front of the other and actually survive the disease. been touched directly or indirectly by breast cancer. >> if you look at the trajectory

and see this massive increase in diagnoses, it is starting to plateau. what we are seeing in that diagnosis is more and more stage one and stage two breast cancer. these screenings are working. we are catching the disease much earlier. in the later stages, we still have a fairly high mortality rate. that is one thing we know, that the treatments are getting better and better. because we are catching earlier, i think we are seeing that huge increase and i think it will plateau. we also have to unlock the mystery of why we seem to see more and more cancer in our society. and we have to confront -- i include myself in this -- what being overweight means, what lifestyle means, what diet and habit means. all of those things are playing into effect. playing a role in the cancer rates.

you see it internationally as well. it is absolutely critical that we continue to research. there is a huge study that involves hundreds of thousands of women. one of the challenges here is that we tend to think we have got to cut spending. we made all of this investment and all of this research. we are right at the point at which this research can actually reduce health care costs and then we quit funding. we have to push back against that lack of investment in health care research because it is absolutely critical and we have to put more onus so that we can live a healthier lifestyle. >> are you cancer free today? >> no one can ever say -- you do not know that you are cancer free. so i never say that i am cancer free.

i say that i am healthy and i have no reason to assume that the cancer has reoccurred in a way that would have to be treated. >> let me ask you about your brand of politics. how would you describe heidi heitkamp? >> i think i am straightforward. one of the reasons i am here, being from a state where the president lost by 22 points, i said, number one, i started out with a very high name id. most people know who i am and they know me from years of working in the state of north dakota. when the ads came, heidi heitkamp is this or that, people shrugged her shoulders and said, we know her. she is not that. in a state where there aren't a lot of voters and you have a chance to have a personal relationship, i think it is really hard for that tactic to win. >> one of those ads, you are at a batting cage with a wink at the end. what was that about?

>> we were just having fun. i am just getting started, right? >> did you play softball? >> i did. the whole family played softball. my dad started out coaching amateur baseball and we transitioned to softball, men's and women's. he had 4 daughters. girls in town with time on their hands and my dad picked up a bat and a ball and said get out, we are going to play softball. that started our softball team and we were very competitive and played four years. my sister holly is in the softball hall of fame for north dakota. >> you won by fewer than 3000 votes. besides the name id, what do you attribute your victory to? >> i would say that the message.

and the approach that i took to how i am going to do this job. people are tired of partisanship. they are tired of bickering. they are tired of people coming here to do politics and not fix things for the american public. what i promised is that i was never going to put ideology or politics ahead of the citizens of north dakota. i think people believed it and i would like to believe that same bipartisan attitude, the same belief that we are here for, the people that we represent, is the reason why i am enjoying the job and why i am here doing the job. >> if your dad were here today, would he be surprised or say, i think she is going to be in the u.s. senate? >> i will tell you a story about my dad. my dad never let you relax and pat you on the back.

it was always, what are you going to do next? this is a man with an eighth grade education -- we all have eighth grade education, but that was his terminal degree. when i went to law school, that was pretty amazing. when i was smaller and decided to go to law school, girls did not go to law school. that is one of the reasons why i went to law school because i was told i could not. i graduated from law school and i was expecting, way to go. he said, you still have that test you have to take, don't you? i am like, yeah, it is called the bar exam. he said, well, you really are not a lawyer yet. in north dakota, we have a great tradition. the clerk of court, a beautiful

woman, calls every person who passes the bar exam and tell them. after i had passed the bar exam, i called and told my dad. you could hear it in his voice, he was trying to figure out the next thing to tell me to do. he finally stepped back and said, congratulations. if he were here today, i think he would say you really have not fixed the fiscal -- getting here is not the accomplishment, doing things while you are here is the consummate. he would be excited to get the farm bill passed. he would want to know what we are going to do for veterans. he started the smallest chapter in the history of the vfw. he along with other veterans in his era. i think he would challenge me to do the job and not just be proud that i have the job. >> on the issue of the background checks, you came

under some criticism from bill daley, the former white house chief of staff. he contributed $2500 to your campaign. he was upset and said he wanted money back. what did you think? >> we sent the money back. when i campaigned -- and it goes back to what i was talking about. i did not fool anyone. i had an a rating with the nra. not to say this is about the nra. that vote was about what i thought would actually work. it is unfortunate, in this country, that we have not focused on the things that i think matter. number one, mental health and how we will get more help for people with mental health and people who do have episodes and have proven that they are dangerously mentally ill, get on a registry so that they are not able to get guns. that is a whole issue that we can talk about surrounding a lot of the shootings and have these

folks legally got guns. there was not one background check that would have changed outcomes. the other thing i would say is that i believe that i was sent to represent the people of north dakota. in spite of what national groups would say about what the attitudes are of the people of north dakota, they do not think that a majority of people should be burdened because of the bad actions of a few. we continue to hear about the vote and i continue to believe it was the right vote. we continue to have ongoing dialogue. i do challenge people and ask them, the department of justice, just a few days after that vote, came out with a report. they do it periodically. they asked people in state penitentiaries and prisons where

they got their guns. less than 1% got there gun from a gun show. they get it because they steal it or using straw purchases having someone else purchases it for them. and that trafficking and straw purchase bill is one i supported. >> why is heidi heitkamp a democrat? >> at the end of the day, i believe that the democratic party has the better solution for the economic future of the vast majority of our citizens. by that i mean you look at social security. to illustrate it the best, if you look at the ryan budget, and i have no reason to doubt that people are very principled with that budget, but there is very little in the ryan budget that i can support. reductions in infrastructure, reductions in research. you take a look at vouchering or doing a different way with

medicare expenditures. overall, it is not in the budget, but a push towards privatization of social security. that is the blueprint. measured against that blueprint, that is not an agenda that i can support. >> north dakota is a state that many americans have never been to. how would you describe your state? >> stunningly beautiful. and it is full of people who believe that there is not anything they cannot college if they work together. i say that is the biggest difference that i see. here, if you tell somebody an idea and you think you can work, they will say, that is a good idea but that cannot happen. i do not think that will happen. in north dakota, if you have a good idea and a lot of enthusiasm behind it, it seems manageable. we can get it done.

even if you are sitting at the coffee table with democrats and republicans, vikings fans and green bay packers fans, lutherans and catholics, they may not agree on the issues of the day, but they figure out how to get the christmas lights up at christmas and the roof on the fire hall, and how to solve problems that people at the very heart of it depend on everyday. that is north dakota. >> a couple of pictures in this room of your two children. what do your kids think about you being in the senate? >> from the time they were little, i was tax commissioner, right after ally was born almost. nathan, except for the 12 years that i was not serving in public life. so there early experience in life, i was an elected official. i think they see this not from the standpoint of being in the

senate, but mom is off doing that work again, whether it was tax commissioner or attorney general, trying to serve the public. >> one of your colleagues described you as strong as battery acid, he said that as a compliment. >> he is an amazing colleague. i have not always agreed with senator corker. he is fighting every day to change the dialogue to we got to get it done. i have enormous respect for him. >> those watching this interview may see that picture right behind us. what is it? >> you can't see it? it is the sweetheart of the rodeo. see his boots? >> i do. >> he is riding a bucking horse.

it is done by an artist who comes from a ranch family, rodeo family in north dakota. he made a name for himself doing amazing art. he is a very dear friend. it has meaning beyond that, though. this picture started out in byron dorgan's office. he was walking to minot state campus where walter peele works. he saw it in the library and some place on campus and announced it should be hanging in the halls of his office, and congress and so byron brought it here. he inherited it. and i inherited it after camp's retirement. this is a wonderful painting done by a wonderful, hard-working north dakotan who,

that has been hanging. and every day when i look at it, i think not only of walter and his values, i think of the values of the west and i think of camp and byron. >> what is this like coming to washington? >> frustrating. people get into how is the rarefied air? i did not come here to be a senator. i came here to do a job. it has been frustrating at times. the low point had to be when we went to the brink on the debt limit extension in october. i was shocked that people who should've known better were saying that it would not matter if we failed to meet our obligations. i think that changed the discussion, as you see today, being able to fairly easily extend the debt limit. but i remain frustrated a lot of

days that things that should be easy, that everybody can agree on are hard to do because of the super power of minorities here. >> some already have said that you may have higher aspirations. >> forget it. this is as high as it goes. you know, i'm 58 years old. when i decided to do this i thought, ok, do you know how much energy you have for this? and where do you go from here and what is the goal? kent conrad did something that every day he would get to the office and he would write down what he hoped to accomplish. and what is great about what kent did, if he did not write pass the farm bill or talk to so and so today. he wrote, fix the debt. it was always the big things. improve education in america. for me, this is a place where you can participate in that discussion in a very privileged

way. we need to be worthy of the privileges given. and i hope that as we continue to build a solid core of people that want to get things done, that we will move towards results. i tell people all the time, did you hear what so-and-so said about you? and is usually something on the 24-hour news network. ironically, it is usually somebody on msnbc and not fox. did you hear what they said about you? i care more about they will say about me in 24 years than what they say about me every 24 hours. we've got to take the long view of moving this country in the right direction. >> idle question. what do your siblings say about you? when do you fill in for your brother on radio? >> i used to do a lot of talk radio.

when joel was serving his term in the legislature, i did it for three months. it is something every politician should have to do. not just answer the questions, but host a show where you have a very direct relationship with the listeners and the constituents, because occasionally you learn something if you keep your ears open. occasionally, you get your ideas challenged in ways that move you in a different direction. and so i'm grateful for that opportunity but my siblings remain my best friends. they are an amazing group of people. i could brag on and on about what everyone of them do. brag on and on about how proud i am. i have a sister who, give you an example -- i was in the state house one day and i ran into a guy that i knew pretty well and he came running to us and he said, i want to tell you.

you get, you are politician. you did something he really agrees with. and he said, your sister saved my family. she is a family therapist. she does a lot of work with kids who are troubled, trying to put families back together. she has done some very creative programming to keep kids out of the system with intensive family therapy. i have a sister who runs parks and recreation and is incredibly creative and organized. i have a sister who is one of the greatest mothers and grandmothers. i have a sister who chairs the social work department at und. and every place i go in north dakota when i run into her students they tell me how she changed their lives. and so, it is a privilege to be here and important to be here, but what my siblings do every day is important. and i am proud of them. >> senator heidi heitkamp. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> next, is a conversation with republican senator john thune.

he is part of the gop leadership. he talks about how he got involved in politics, his family and his interest outside of washington. >> senator john thune, republican of south dakota, do you remember the first time he came to washington dc? >> i do, actually. i was in college and at that time, there was a member of congress from the state of south dakota, jim abner, who i had gotten to know when i was in high school. and he had me come out here and spend a week over one of the periods when congress was in session and just got acquainted with the town and with congress and sort of politics in general. and that was one of the first times i guess i can remember actually starting to get a little bit interested in politics. >> what were your impressions back then? >> it was really daunting.

like you said, i have never been here before. you've seen pictures of these things. you have studied it, obviously. but actually coming here and seeing up close and personal washington dc and seeing all the history, it is so rich with history. it was just very, you know, it was really an inspiring experience. >> did you grow up in a political family? >> i did not. my parents were in education. my dad started out in the hardware business but then sold that, when backing got his teaching degree. he taught high school. he was the athletic director, he coached. and he drove a school bus. my mom was a school librarian. that was not any where i could go to get away from my parents in high school. politics is not something we talked about. they were very conscientious in terms of voting and very respectful of people in public life and public office, but it was only because of an

experience i had when it was a freshman in high school when i really sort of started to get interested. i mentioned jim abner earlier, but i was playing basketball in a tournament that we have in my home town every year. and i was getting varsity time. so i got into the game on a friday night. and i got six attempts at the free-throw. i made five them. the next afternoon, we're playing again, and i was in the department store in my hometown of south dakota -- murdough, south dakota. as i was in the checkout line, somebody behind me tapped my shoulder and he said, i noticed you missed one last night. i was like, who was the smart alec? i'm a freshman and i made five out of six. he introduced himself as congressman jim abner. and he sort of followed my sports career, and i started to get interested in his political career, but that was my first exposure really to a political figure. and so that sparked my interest at least initially. i have never contemplated doing this as a career path until later in life.

and that also was related to then senator abner. but growing up it was not something that was really part of our daily conversation and certainly anything that i aspired to do at the time. >> where is murdough, south dakota? >> it is at the intersection of interstate 90 and highway 83. we always thought it was the center of the universe growing up, but 500 people. when i was growing up, it was about 800 people. great place to grow up, but when i was growing up, my life began and ended at the city limits. nowadays kids have access to so many different things. travel is easier. and with the internet, you can have the whole world at your fingertips, at your disposal. but i would not trade it for anything. like you said, i went to a small school. had just a very normal upbringing and in a really great community. and a place i try to stay attached to.

>> how did your family end up there, and where does the name thune come from? >> my grandfather and great uncle came over from norway in 1906. when they got to ellis island, they did not know english of -- with the exception of apple pie and coffee which they learned on the way over, but they were asked by immigration to change their name because they thought it would be too difficult to spell and pronounce. their name in norway was g-j-e-l-s-v-i-k. when they got to ellis island, they picked the name of the farm where they lived near bergen, norway. the thune farm. my grandfather became nick thune. they got through ellis island and then they got a sponsor in south dakota and they came out to work on the railroads. learned english, save some money and in due time bought a small merchandising store which eventually became the hardware

business. and that is kind of how we got to south dakota. >> brothers, sisters? >> i have three brothers and a sister and one younger brother. two families. two older brothers and a sister. then i came along later in life and my younger brother. >> your dad is still alive. 93 years old. part of the greatest generation. >> he is. my dad was one of those guys that grew up in the middle of the depression. my grandfather, as i mentioned, nick, came from norway. when they moved to my hometown, you know, it was a hard time. and going to the depression really shaped that generation, but they had a real sense of sort of public duty and very conscientious about things. he became a very accomplished basketball player. so much so that he got an opportunity to play at the university of minnesota, where he was a three-year starter. and most valuable player his junior season. so got away from my hometown. went there for a while.

and after he graduated, of course world war ii had broken out. so he decided to sign up, became a naval aviator. went through flight training and got assigned to the pacific theater of the war, and was involved in the second battle of the philippine seas. where he flew combat missions off intrepid. he flew the hellcat. shot down four enemy aircraft, for which she was awarded distinguished flying cross. an interesting story about that. i did not make this connection and till i had read john mccain's book. but it turns out, i went back and checked this because the dates and the times and the places matched up. the distinguished flying cross that my dad received was issued by admiral john mccain, who was john mccain's grandfather. he was the commander of the fleet that my dad was involved with. >> do you talk to him, or did you talk to him about what that

was like, what he experienced? >> probably not as much as i should have. we always knew it and my mom would tell us about it. my dad like most guys of that generation was very quiet. he had to be prompted to talk about it. so he's 93 today. to this day, he still is -- you kind of have to ask the questions, but i tried to do that, and there is a project called the veteran history project that the library of congress put on a few years ago. probably still has going on. but they encourage you to talk to world war ii veterans and veterans from other conflicts in our history. so we got -- sat my dad down and i asked him a lot of questions. for four hours got a lot of that stuff on the record. and so many of the details and things that you just did not know about. and it is really fascinating. that generation was, they were just a remarkable group of people. to this day, we all owe them an incredible debt of gratitude. >> but you used the word humble,

and that seems to transcend all who served in world war ii. what was it about that time and those primarily men but also women who served to try to help support the troops? >> you talk to my dad and even my mom before she passed away, and they always just talked about the common purpose, the sense of purpose america had at the time. the way everybody came together. people back here shared it. people who wore uniforms were very committed to it. i think when your country is attacked, you have an increased intensity to want to protect everything you love. but there is just something -- it really is -- it is in the dna of that generation. it is not unique to my dad. i talked to people all the time. and those guys that are still around, those world war ii vets, you really do -- they just, they went, they did their duty. they came home, they married

their childhood sweethearts and they went about raising their families and trying to build a better future. it's a quality that's just really unique in american history and culture. you know, something that i guess i was always grateful for. my dad, every year in high school they would get them to come over and share the story. but that is really the only time he ever talked about it. >> you mentioned your mom who has passed away. describe her. >> my mom was an incredibly sweet lady and very outgoing, loved life, always had a smile on her face. very chirpy. my dad had that scandinavian gene, and he tended to be more of a realist. they were a good match. they met when my dad was at the university of minnesota playing basketball. she was working at a soda fountain close to campus. she said she always gave him bigger malts when he came in. they met that way.

when he went to join the service, they got married right before he shipped off. so they were apart for a long time, but when he came home, they ended up going out and settling down in my hometown which was a real adjustment for my mom. she was kind of a city girl. she grew up in minneapolis-st. paul and was sort of a custom to many of the things you have been a more populated area of the country. at that time, my hometown had dirt main street. so i think she was taking the train back to minnesota to visit family on a regular basis, but she got to where she loved it there. and she raised me and my siblings there. she was very family oriented. and really kind of a softer side of the family. you know, us boys always wanted to play sports. we loved all the sports. anytime there was a ball around, we wanted to be out there tossing it and shooting it or whatever. you know, my mom ensured that we all understood other things. we all took piano lessons.

i took six years of piano lessons. that was at my mom's insistence. she wanted to have an appreciation for music and culture. and she was a big reader. she read all the time. she would make us come in in the middle of the afternoon during the summer when we were not in school and read a book for an hour. so just a really, really special and neat lady. and they were, like i said, good for each other. >> graduated from high school. you end up in los angeles at the bible institute of l.a., viola. >> viola university. it started out as a bible college and became a fully accredited liberal arts christian university. i had a couple of brothers that went out there. my oldest brother had wanted to get a christian liberal arts education. and my dad had a high school classmate who had moved to california. and they had stayed in close contact, and he said, you know,

if wants to come out here, he said, my son howard is going to the school called viola. he can stay with us. if he likes it, great. if he doesn't, he can come back. my older brother and sister got undergraduate degrees out there. my mom and dad liked the way they turned out. they were encouraged -- they encouraged me to attend there. it was a great experience. getting away from your comfort zone, from your support system can be a good thing. and california is very different from south dakota. and i certainly am a you know, was exposed to some things, learned some things out there. obviously got a great education -- christian liberal arts education -- and then came back to the university of south dakota where i got my mba. i then decided after having lived in california that i really wanted to settle down in the midwest and south dakota. i just never got it out of my system. and loved everything about it. so i came back to get my mba in south dakota, assuming i would end up working financial services or some field like that. and ended up on this career

path. >> culture shock from south dakota to los angeles? >> very much so. i'm sure i sort of looks like somebody -- when i got to california, maybe a little bit of a hayseed. when i got there, because it is, it is a very different culture. you do have, i think, a transitional period when you make a big change like that. i was young, and came from a really good, solid upbringing and background. so pretty well grounded, but just an entirely different way of life. climate was nice, easy to get used to. but the traffic, the congestion, all the things you have in the big city were things that, in the end, i kind of decided i wanted to back to wide-open spaces of south dakota. where did you meet your wife kimberly? >> i met her at viola. she is from south dakota. she grew up on a farm.

i grew up more towards the western part of the state. we did not know each other. she had been attending college in kansas. and then had decided that she wanted to transfer and had been looking at different schools and found out that viola had a good communications department. so she decided to come out there. she was a transferred junior when i met her. and we met at a new student reception. and we got introduced by a guy. they're not that many kids at viola from south dakota. so he said, you do you want to meet this girl from south dakota? he told her, do you want to meet this guy from south dakota? >> when you came back to south dakota, you said you wanted to get involved in finance, and yet you worked for congressman and senator abner, correct? how did that come about? >> after i got out of grad school, i was working for a

short time for the state of south dakota. i got a job working in the department of transportation they're doing some things, some financial stuff at that time. they were looking at trying to privatize the state owned railroad. they asked me to come up and work on financing options. it was a fun job. and i enjoyed it, but a couple of months into that, i get this call from jim abner's chief of staff in washington, d.c. and said we got this opening. would you like to come out? i was like, eh. it really was not something i planned on. my wife and i were engaged, planning to get married toward the end of december and they said, can you come out and start a job in january? so we talked a lot about it, consulted our family. and made it a matter of prayer and decided at the end that maybe it is a good thing to do. do it for a couple of years. check the box. get some great experience in learning a little bit more about how government works. so we came out here in january, 1985. and that was -- i think, i very much, sort of a life-changing

event in the sense that it sparked my interest in politics and having worked out here, i sort of decided that if the timing and the opportunity were ever right that i might want to try to run for elective office myself. but had it not been for that door opening and that opportunity coming along, i would probably be doing something in the financial services field in south dakota. >> that was the senate, correct? >> correct. >> you ran for the house in 1996. why? >> you know, i just decided it was something -- i did not want to get into my 50's and look back and say i really wish i would have tried it. i felt like i had had some opportunities that had prepared me for it. i could do -- having been on here i thought perhaps i had an aptitude for this kind of work. saw it as an opportunity to really make a difference. so my wife and i again at that time did not have any personal or family wealth.

kind of, it was a bootstraps campaign, grassroots campaign, but decided to give it a whirl. we sort of proceeded down that path. started going to the dinners and getting around state, trying to get acquainted. and jim abner was very helpful. he was a great retail politician. in south dakota, that really matters. >> you were the underdog? >> currently. what happened was tim johnson vacated his house seat to run for the senate. so it was an open seat. so in our stated does not come along very often. there is a lot of interest in it. a lot of people got into that primary initially. then our lieutenant governor decides to get in the race and that cleared the field, except for me and i guess one other guy. and so we went into that campaign, in fact, i remember there was a poll published in roll call in april, 1996, that

had us down i want to say 69-15. it was a june primary, but you know, we had just started to get our message out, started to get on television. and we were able to pull out a win in the primary and ultimately in the general election. >> you ran for the senate in 2002. you lost by how many votes? >> 524. >> what was that like? >> it is hard losing. you always play to win. i remember, although i remember sitting in my living room after that election and it -- a very hard fought campaign. it is hard in a small state because you know so many people. and these campaigns can really take on a personal flavor. but, you know, i think you learn lessons from losing. and sometimes the adversity that you have come along in your life teaches you a lot more than some of the successes and the victories. but i remember having a

conversation with my wife in our living room in sioux falls after that election. and she looked at me and said, i am not going through another campaign unless god himself comes to the door and says he -- you have to run. over time, you process it and have an opportunity to get a little bit of perspective and we were having a similar conversation several months later. this would probably be the spring or summer of 2003. and she looked at me and said, you know, i finally concluded and realized that what we went through in that campaign last year was not just about the winning. it was about the race. for me, it was about the winning. i was in it to win. you always are. but i think she made a really important observation, and that is that it is important to be in the arena, to be out there fighting for the things you believe in. and yes, your goal is to win but you need to be out there. you know, it was a process to come around to decide to get back on the horse and run again.

but we did. fortunately, the second time around it turned out differently. >> but in the race in 2004, you ran against the senate democratic leader. and a party leader had not lost since 1952. so what were you thinking? >> we thought it was a long shot. we really did. we sat down. i tell a story around the kitchen table because we always did this. by 2004, our girls were older, at least old enough to have involved in this discussion. we talked a lot about it, but -- so we had a family vote. secret ballot. should i run for the senate again or not? the vote came back 3 to one, and i was the no vote. the family was ok with moving forward. we were prepared going into that

campaign have lost once, we knew how it felt and we survived it. you go on. prepared either way for how it was going to come out. it just felt like it was something we needed to do and that was not anybody else out there. it would have been, probably, an uncontested or noncompetitive race. so we decided to take another shot at it, and it was a very, another long, hard campaign, but you know, it was nice to win it. and obviously, you know, as i look back on it now, if i had to do it over again, i always wonder what i'd move forward with that again knowing now -- if i had known what i know now? >> let me ask you about your brand of republican politics. how would you describe yourself politically, ideologically? >> i am a conservative. if you look at how you come up, and i was very influenced by jim abner, but also by ronald reagan. my dad in my coming up, my dad was a new deal democrat. he grew up in the 1930's and a

very tough time for the country. he liked harry truman. he eventually became a republican later in life. so i kind of have that heritage, but i was just really impressed when ronald reagan came on the political scene about the time i was coming of age politically. i liked the way he talked about the issues. i like the optimism and the sense of purpose he had. vision for the country. the way he talked about our country. it was a combination of ronald reagan and jim abner who shaped the way i look at things and drew a political lens. i am a right of center conservative, i realized that you have to be able to get things done. you have to have a record of accomplishment. to, in order have to make that possible, work with people that you may not agree with. there is always a give and take

in politics. that is something that i am certainly learning as a staffer out here and something that i have tried to bring to my time in office. >> i will make three statements and i want you to finish how you feel. first of all, the state of congress today is what? think some people describe it as broken. -- it is ais just little divided, a little filled with conflict. we have got a divided government. people come here with very different points of view about how to solve very hard problems. survivedur democracy through various periods in history and i think that we can use the time that we are in right now to do some good things for the country if people will be willing to come together. >> the state of the republican

party? >> it is evolving. [laughter] is,ink the republican party in terms of our principles, we are in the right place. the american people -- if we are able to articulate the things that we are for, they are very much on the same wavelength. people instinctively believe in a limited role for the government. they believe in personal freedom coupled with individual responsibility. those are american traits. that if you're going to keep the country safe, you have to stay strong. those are core republican values, principles that to me are timeless and transcendent. oftentimes, we don't do a good job of making our argument to the american people or explaining to them what it is that we are for. i think that we have got to do a much better job of that. if we are going to be a governing much -- governing

party in the future. there is a lot of change in the country and you have to be able to adapt to that. that doesn't mean you have to compromise your principles but you have to figure out how you can communicate in a more say this isy, to the direction i want to go and this is the set of values and principles that i want to have lead us forward. >> and the state of the country is? >> the country -- i think we have big decisions to make as a country about what kind of country we want to be. that sort of bears on the whole question, too, about the role of government, how much government do we want in our lives? what do we want our government to do? how much do we want to pay for it? and do we want to be the exceptional nation that i think our forefathers gave us.