" is next and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. host: good morning. welcome to "washington journal." john kerry expected to appear before the house foreign affairs committee. look for coverage on c-span 3 at 1:30. he will fly to london to meet with his russian counterpart for last-ditch attempt at a diplomatic solution. yesterday, president obama's meeting with ukraine's interim prime minister in washington warned russia of a cost of the country continues to intervene in ukraine. we will begin there this morning with your thoughts.

join the conversation on twitter http://twitter.com/cspanwj or on facebook. you can e-mail us at journal@c-span.org. join us on the phone is david jackson who covers the white house for usa today. david, what is the white house mulling over when it comes to russia paying a cost for the continued intervention in ukraine? guest: they're trying to get their other countries to participate in sanctions against russia, which is proving to be did more difficult than expected . they're having a tough time with a global approach, if you will, toward making russia pay economically. they have already instituted or begun the process of instituting

domestic sanctions, putting visa restrictions on russians who are deemed to have been involved in the incursion into crimea. there've also gone about the process of identifying russians who been involved in trying to freeze our assets and taking other economic actions against them. there's the talk about trying to cut off you his business with russian companies who may have some connections to what is going on in crimea and ukraine. host: what about the legislation approved yesterday, and aid bill to ukraine? what is the administration saying? guest: president obama propose that last week and basically $1 billion package of loan guarantees to ukraine. reticular lee in terms of energy because there's concern -- particularly in terms of energy because there are concerns. it is something the proposed

recently by the president and congress is acting on it. i suspect they will approve it by the end of the month. russia is supposed to host the g-8 summit in june in sochi of all places. there's considerable doubt about whether that will take place because the other countries are talking about boycotting it. host: when it comes to the situation here and now in the vote will take place on sunday in crimea, has the white house given up? the line you hit the last 24 hours, 48 hours, the crimea is gone. host: i would not say they have given up. i think will be tough to stop the referendum. i suspect that most people in crimea will go ahead and vote to secede from ukraine and rejoin russia but i think what they're trying to do now is basically dispute or challenge the legitimacy of the vote saying it was slapped together at the last minute. that you can't really have a free vote with russian troops

running around. the people are intimidated. i think you'll see the white house question the legitimacy of the boat, and that is why it should not be honored. there are doing it is illegal under the craning constitution. you mentioned secretary kerry traveling today to meet with his russian counterpart. there is a last-ditch effort to get the russians or try to get that crimean to delay this referendum on sunday by saying let's have negotiations and talk about having a more structured referendum, but i don't think that is going to work. host: reports in the papers today about the relationship with europe and russia, but specifically the german chancellor's relationship with president putin. it talks about how much she has reached out to the president in his recent days over the situation. what about the united states and its relationship with germany.

has the white house let you in on our relationship with europe and what is going on there? guest: the president is making a series of phone calls to leaders throughout the world and one has been to the german chancellor angela merkel. he is also spoke to japan and leaders in the middle east, the usual suspects. he is making an array of calls to a variety of world leaders. i think the feeling is with angela merkel, she is the best relationship with putin. i think a lot of u.s. counterparts are talking to germantown to talk -- counterparts about his conversations. host: what is next on this, david jackson, over the next 24 to 48 hours? guest: we are going to brace for the -- kerry will be talking to his russian counterpart try to delay the referendum, but that is considered a long shot. i think most people in the white

house are bracing for the sunday referendum. they suspect it will go russia's way and will try to operate in that new universe. meanwhile, the ukrainian prime minister was at the white house yesterday. he talked to president obama about a strategy moving forward. he also talked about trying to compromise with the russians on ukraine and china set up a more -- trying to allay the concerns and keep ukraine together as one country. i also think the white house will continue to pursue what it calls an avenue toward peace in terms of trying to get the russian troops to withdraw their troops from crimea and go back to pre-existing bases in the region. i don't know if the russians will go for that. all we know right now is the referendum will probably take place on sunday and will change the dynamics of the talks. host: david jackson, thank you. we want our viewers to weigh in on that. before we let you go, domestically, there is one more issue i would like you to talk

about because the president today is going to sign an executive order on overtime pay. what would this do? guest: he will basically direct his department to look at the rules for how businesses pay their employees overtime. this stems from the concern many employers are exempting too many employees from the overtime rules, which really haven't been changed since the 1970's. they declare certain employees to be administrative types of employees, which means they are not eligible for overtime pay. there is concern in the administration these rules are being abused and people are not being paid fairly. the labor department will review these rules over the next several months and come up with some new ones. the aim is to make more people eligible for overtime pay when they work more than 40 hours a week. the business community says it will lead to less jobs and less overtime pay. but that is a dispute that will play out the next several months. host: who would be getting the

overtime pay? guest: well, basically people deemed "professional or administrative" but wind up working 50 or 60 it hours a week but paid on a 40 hour scale. we could be talking several hundred thousand people or even millions of people who are in that category. host: david jackson, white house reporter for "usa today," thank you. the situation in ukraine tensions between russia, the u.s., and europe. president obama met yesterday with the interim prime minister of ukraine, and he talks about the situation in ukraine and his warning to russia. take a look. >> we have been very clear that we consider the russian move into crimea positivists basis to be a violation of international law, of international agreements which russia is a signatory, and

a violation of territorial integrity and sovereignty of ukraine. we have been very firm in saying we will stand with ukraine and the ukrainian people ensuring that sovereignty is maintained. i think we all recognize there are historic ties between russia and ukraine and i think the prime minister would be the first one to it knowledge that. i think the prime minister and the current government in kiev has recognized into medicated directly to the russian federation their desire to try and manage through this process diplomatically. but what the prime minister is right on, they cannot have a country outside of ukraine dictate to them how they should arrange their affairs.

and there is a constitutional process in place and a set of elections that they can move forward on, that in fact, could lead to different arrangements over time with the crimean region. but that is not something that should be done with the barrel of a gun pointed at you. and so secretary kerry is into medications with the russian government -- is in communications with the russian government and has offered to try to explore with his counterparts, foreign minister lavrov eight diplomatic solution to this crisis. we will continue to say to the russian government that if it continues on the path that it is on, then not only us, but the international community, the

european union, and others will be forced to apply a cost to russia's violations of international law. host: president obama at the white house yesterday sitting down with the interim prime minister of ukraine, saying to russia there will be a cost if they continue on this path. this comes as he has sent secretary of state john kerry to london to meet with his russian counterpart to come up with some sort of diplomatic solution to what people are calling an 11th hour step from a effort before sunday's vote in crimea. here is the " kiev post." this was posted yesterday. martin dempsey has claimed in the case of an escalation of unrest in crimea, u.s. army is

ready to back up ukraine and its allies in europe with military action. according to the website of the atlantic council, dempsey said he has been talking to his military counterparts in russia but also sending a clear message to ukraine and members of nato that the u.s. military will respond militarily if necessary. we turn to you this morning to get your take on this. john is first from california independent caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think this is incredible you have neoconservatives meddling in ukraine. president obama was supposed to be different from the neocon administration of george w. bush. obviously, he is not. we are taking this to the brink of world war iii. the neoconservatives can't stand russia because they did not go along with the wars against syria and iran. america better wake up to the near jacking -- to the

neoconservatives hijacking our country. host: we go to pennsylvania republican. caller: this is what i've got to say. john was pretty much right on. the only thing i would say a little bit differently is, our government needs to distract us. first, it was the terrorist bombings of the world trade center which led to the last 10 years of worrying about al qaeda and all this other stuff. and now we go over there and we essentially whip up a civil war in the ukraine. this is what i have to ask the other viewers. who is this guy with the blue tie and heavy glasses and the bald head sitting in the white house talking to president obama? by what right is he the new leader of the ukraine? were there elections? is he the elected prime minister?

and then we support these guys because, really, what we need is the -- the eu is looking to take the ukraine and tournament to the serbs of the eu, which is really the serbs of the west. then we send this guy kerry, who i'm going to big-name him as the voice with no name. he goes over there and all he can do is pray. these guys are a joke. host: bloomberg has the story posted yesterday. russia calls u.s. aid to ukraine illegal amid standoff for stepping off what bill had to say, russia stood by to post ukrainian president yanukovych and called possible aid illegal.

russia considers the ouster of moscow-backed.co which a coup, an assertion rejected by the u.s. here are some tweets -- we are having you weigh in about what to think. president obama warning russia there will be a cost from the u.s. and our european partners. let's go next to carl, democrat in oxford, massachusetts. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i would like to say the united states, if it wants to do

something for possibly offer humanitarian aid in case of refugees or whatever, in case it escalates. we should leave them alone. those people have a checkered past. there's nothing we can do. they have to figure out things for themselves. i think they will. like i said, unless the united states has economic interests there, but humanitarian aid for the stay out of it politically and militarily. those people understand each other. they will figure something out. thank you. host: the senate foreign relations committee out of the committee yesterday past and aid bill to ukraine. your is peter baker's piece in "the new york times." the democratic led foreign relations committee passed by 14-3 vote an alternative version .

the administration and its allies contend the imf changes would raise loan limits for countries like ukraine while house republicans maintain they would weaken the american influence of the organization and expose taxpayers to more risks. the department has redoubled its efforts, arguing the country standing in the imf and the funds standing in the world are estate. those two issues tied together yesterday when the senate foreign relations committee voted on the legislation out of that committee. it is a little bit different than what the house passed. they will have to reconcile those two pieces of legislation. about the vote yesterday in the

senate foreign relations committee, we covered it, so you can go to c-span.org if you missed it. josh rogan who covers the issues for "the daily beast" tweeted this that the committee approved ukraine's bill 14-3. senator marco rubio is critical of this aid bill and there are quotes in that -- posts in the papers today. marco rubio tweeted -- that is why he was not at the committee yesterday for that vote. back to our calls. north carolina, republican caller. go ahead. caller: i would wonder when the united states would learn. i am an old man. we went to korea and lost 57,000 people. then we went to vietnam. from there we went to iraq and

then libya boast of bill clinton bombed kosovo. we keep sticking our nose where we have no business that. time after time. we never accomplish nothing but the lives of americans. thank you. host: steve, illinois independent caller. caller: i have been watching this fan out for four weeks. we already sent -- spent $2 billion in aid three weeks ago. two armored cars came in with the ambassador with -- host: where did you hear that? caller: our tv. host: which network? caller: our tv. russian tv. these guys are wearing masks. they are shooting. we have to stay out of this.

mccain doesn't have a clue. our senators and congressmen just want to put our boys into harm. our young men and women into harm. they don't care nothing about our country, whatsoever. host: tim, arkansas, democratic caller. caller: we need to stay out of this conflict because we can't afford another war. if we go to war again, we would be so we after fighting russia. we might win the war, but we would be so weak that mexico would be tinted to invade his and take the land we took from them. as far as profiting wall street and industrial electric complex i'm totally against giving them enough money -- we've given them enough money in the last decade. host: here's a tweet --

you can join the conversation on twitter. you can post your comments on facebook as well. the front page of the financial times this morning has this headline -- it says the u.s. has announced the first test sale of oil from the strategic petroleum reserve since iraq invaded kuwait in 1990, in a move that underlines its ability to respond to any energy market turmoil as a result of the ukrainian crisis.

the department of energy described a planned release of up to 5 million perils of oil less than one big percent of the six hundred 96 million in reserves is intended to access the systems capabilities in the events of it to structured. the white house would not associate the release with the crimean crisis. the energy department says the sale has long been planned for the time of year when refineries stock up for the summer driving season. analysts adjusted the announcement of the first test sale in 24 years within the signal to russia following its move into crimea. the timing of this makes it seem like a warning shot across the bow toward the russians. that in "the financial times." also on lifting the export on gas sales overseas. here's the headline in "the wall street journal" --

infrastructure there a problem from "the wall street journal." let's hear from james, maryland, republican caller. caller: good morning. we don't need to be in the ukraine. what is the teachable moment here, that we're going to try to negotiate and lose? we need to change our paradigm. if we want to give our armed

forces a war to win, then let them fight the drug war in south america. we need to be building alliances with canada, brazil, mexico and our own in the sphere, and realize that is the foreign policy we need to be pursuing. not going into these countries were there is no return on investment. like the other viewers ideas on that. host: we will hear from another james in silver lake, indiana, independent caller. caller: good morning, c-span. i'm glad to talk to you on this good, bright morning. i believe ukraine could be helped somewhat, but i've got another question. how come we are letting 10 million to 15 million illegals come into the united states and we do nothing about it? this is like a tidal wave that is hitting ukraine. i would like to hear democrats

views on this subject. host: peter is a democrat in bethesda, maryland. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: we can. caller: i disagree with my neighbor who just called about two colors ago who says we should be focusing on the drug wars. that is a war that has been shown we cannot win. there's no point to go to south america. i completely disagree with him. that being said, on ukraine and putin and russia and the former soviet republics, this is a defining moment in our relationship with russia, nato and the u.s./russia, vis-à-vis russia. putin wrote the op-ed piece and it stopped the world from acting to stop genocide in syria. this is a man who sides with our enemies. he sides with israel.

i am a liberal democrat. this is a man who is an autocrat. he is a dictator. a former kgb man. he sides with hezbollah, iran and syria. look what he is doing in ukraine. we need to get involved and help the ukrainians. this is not an issue of entering ukrainian religion etc. this isp trying to get the old ussr back into russia. host: on this military option, this is "the washington post" and it says --

that is what the united states looks like. a new poll echoing what a lot of you are saying, calling it today and on twitter, most say the u.s. should not get involved in the ukraine situation. take a look at the poll -- that from pew research, echoing

what a lot of you are saying. the interim prime minister not only met with president obama yesterday, he also went over to the state department and was up on capitol hill knitting with congressional leaders there. senator bob corker, the top republican on the senate foreign relations committee tweeted -- he also met with robert menendez as well as others. today he will be up in new york to address the united nations. here is a little bit of what the ukrainian prime minister had to say yesterday when he was asked about the situation in russia and the actions by russia on the situation in ukraine and crimea. [video clip]

>> this is not the crisis between ukraine and russia. it is worse. this is the global crisis. in case russia moves further this would definitely undermine the entire mobile security. and i am wondering about the goals of russia to draw the new lines, to revise the outcomes of the second world war, to restore the soviet union, or to preserve peace and stability in the region? and to stick to its international obligations? host: ukrainian prime minister arseniy yatsenyuk talking about the situation. he met with the president yesterday and the state department and will be in new york today to address the united nations. some other headlines this morning. "arizona republic" has --

the governor will not seek another term in arizona. that on the front page of "arizona republic." "wall street journal" has the missing airplane from malaysia on the front page am a flu on for hours after it was -- from page flew on for hours after it was lost from radar. a follow-up to a topic we discussed recently with the former chairman of the federal energy regulatory commission. he was talking about the power grids in this country and how they are vulnerable to sabotage. rebecca smith has this follow-up story in "the wall street journal" this morning.

this on the front page of "the wall street journal" this morning. many of you might be seeing these ads in your papers. this ad has been running in the papers here in washington this week. 35 years ago on march 19, u.s. house went live on c-span.

the u.s. house opened its sessions to live television cameras as a public service credit by american cable companies. c-span was there. we continue to televise every house debate live gavel-to-gavel and commercial-free. coming up on our 35 year anniversary here at c-span. back to our topic for you this morning. that is the situation in crimea. we will hear from walter, independent. caller: good morning, c-span. good morning, america. we need a check up. we could lose power from the high winds we are suffering right here in washington. we don't need to worry about terrorism or anything else. my lights are flashing just from the high windss alone. i love c-span. host: if i could stop you there to get people perspective, this is a tweet sent out --

this is what it looked like last night at 8:30 p.m. back to our topic. caller: the crimean peninsula. hundreds of thousands of russians were killed from world war ii and it was not that long ago, that we continue to forget the historical nature of these areas. these people, not just the majority of russians -- hundreds of thousands were killed in world war ii -- to retake the crimea peninsula from the germans. when we take a look at that and look at the fact we have no attachment there. as your article said, we are not prepared to step in there and become the russian daddy or uncle sam that they need over there. they need to negotiate with them, not with us. i pray to god that some of these

chicken hawks -- a chicken hawk is someone who always wants to go to war, or they've never been or won't go themselves. i think for us to continually hop on the military expense expedition, it is something that we went through in iraq and did not win that one. we have not one afghanistan. we must not go in there with guns blazing, ships firing. if we can help them out logistically, then do so, that we must not give lead or treasure anymore to these expeditions. host: you mention history. there's a piece in "the new york times" -- she writes --

it goes on to say german news media has given prominent play to report that 12 extra f-16 fighter jets were sent to: whose air force already has 48 such a jets after six f-15's were sent to the baltic states last week and reconnaissance planes were deployed to poland and romania. that issue being played up in germany as the chancellor there continues to try to broker some sort of diplomatic situation between the two countries.

peter baker wrote in a piece for "the new york times" about the situation and the tensions there between europe and the united states as well. he writes this in "the new york times" that was posted yesterday -- he said we cannot launch a military operation in crimea as we would expose the eastern border and ukraine would not be protected. noting russia has significant tank units near the border. the russians seemed uninterested because i to say to diplomatic solution to the crummy issue -- it goes on to say to diplomatic solution to the crimea issue. more than 80,000 soldiers, up to 270 tanks, 370 artillery assistance, up to 140 combat

aircraft, and up to 40 helicopters and a to 19 combat ships and boats. as the u.s. put some of its military assets over in that region, that gives you an idea of what russia has as well. let's hear from david from california, republican. caller: good morning. my concern is, we have a statue of liberty in new york. if it wasn't for france getting involved in our search for freedom and independence, we might not be free today. i don't think we should jump into a war with russia, but we should stand up and at least be there for those people, and let them know independence and freedom still matters. host: what do you think we should do? be ready to respond militarily if needed? caller: just making the

statement, just standing up and saying we are for the western part of ukraine's freedom. i know the eastern side sides with russia, but we should stand for those people. they want their independence. thank you. host: let's hear from chris tennessee, democratic caller. caller: this concerns that no one has mentioned china made their first default and how that affects russia's money how their dependencies are going to affect our economy. get stuck with real estate somebody is not going to pay for. this kind of faded -- evaded and

nobody is really looking at global economic. thank you. host: you mentioned china. "the washington post" column today -- he theorizes vladimir putin may wind crimea, but will lose the world writing -- that in "the washington post" today if you're interested. more about germany's relationship with russia specifically, angela merkel's relationship with vladimir

putin. this is the headline in " today's paper. you can see that on the graphic. it says her central role has captivated the german public used to london handling to politics. the government's approval rating while the tabloid

is soft and low voice when speaking in her mother tongue, sometimes reminded her of a man of the stasi. hartford, connecticut, independent color. caller: good morning. i really feel strongly we should give more support primarily monetarily, to the ukraine. people do have their memories failed when they remember what stalin did to these people. i think over 13 million people died for him. so we can forget history. i think what bothers me most is the continue to give the liens

of dollars to israel -- billions of dollars to israel who is the 11th or 12th richest country in the world, and we don't expect anything from them. they continue to build settlements. they do what they want. yet we continue year after year to give them billions of dollars. yet here we have a struggling important country that would love to be part of the west. i mean, what we went through with the cold war all those years, you know, this is a big country. this would be so important to bring them over to us and to a democratic, decent society. they need help. we need to give them a lot more money to get them on their situation. host: on twitter -- caller: hello.

how are you doing today? frankly, i am on the other side of the question for most of your collars. i look at the long history of the ukraine and i remember the time when the ukrainians were starved to death by the russians, by taking all of the food out of the country after world war ii. i remember the time when the russians came down and took the crimea of the people to the sword in order to plant the russian flag in the crimea. i look at that historical picture, and i can't see as assisting putin in doing something like that again. if they wanted to have an honest referendum in the crimea, the duo put a question that says, do you want to leave the crimea and join russia or stay with ukraine or do you want to become an independent country? but that is not the ballot they

have got. the ballot gives them the option to stay in the ukraine. host: all right. a follow-up on yesterday's topic for all of you in our first 45 minutes, we talked about senator dianne feinstein's speech on the senate floor alleging the cia had been snooping into a computer network set up for senate staffers on the intelligence committee. they were investigating through an investigation into the cia's torture techniques under the bush administration. this is the headline in "the washington times" this morning -- he came to the floor yesterday, and this is what he had to say about the accusations. [video clip] >> allegations in the past 48 hours have been discussed rampantly in the halls of congress and in the press. based on press reports today

yesterday, and even last week allegations have been made regarding the central intelligence agency's actions toward the committee as well as staff and members actions on the senate intelligence committee towards the cia. the reason i feel compelled to speak on this matter is the following: although people speak as though we know all the pertinent facts surrounding this matter, the truth is, we do not. the republican committee members on the senate intelligence committee and staff were not involved in the underlying investigation of the detainee and interrogation report. we do not know the actual facts concerning the cia's alleged actions or all of the specific details about the actions of the committee staff regarding the draft of what is now referred to as the panetta internal review

document. both parties have made allegations against one another and even speculated as to each other's actions but there are still a lot of unanswered questions that must be addressed. host: if you want to hear all of his speech, you can go to c-span.org if you missed senator dianne feinstein speech, the whole thing is there as well on c-span.org. on this accusation by the senate intelligence chairman, this is "usa today" headline -- so that in "usa today" this morning. also, their opinion page, editorial-page weighing in on this.

the papers view coming conflict with conflict cia has a lot of explaining to do but the opposing view this morning is written by dean boyd, who said, we believe in strong oversight. he is the director of cia office of public affairs and he writes -- if you're interested in that, the debate goes on "usa today" has those two opinions. coming up, we will have two members of congress's perspective on the situation in ukraine. up first representative vicky hartzler and later, marcy kaptur

. we will be right back. >> it is time to create new jobs , to build and rebuild industry and give the american people room to do what they do best. and that can only be done with a tax program which provides incentive to increase productivity for both workers and industry. our proposal is for a 10% across-the-board cut every year for three years in the tax rates for all individual income taxpayers for making a total cut in tax rates of 30%. this three-year reduction will also apply to the tax on unearned income, leading toward an eventual elimination of the present differential between the tax unearned and earned income.

now, i would hope we could be retroactive with this. but as it stands, the effective starting date for these 10% personal income tax rate reductions will all four as of july 1 of this year -- will call four as of july 1 this year. let me remind you while this 30% reduction will leave the taxpayers with $500 billion more in their pockets over the next five years it is actually only a reduction in the tax increase already built into the system. unlike some past "tax reforms post quote this is not merely a shift of wealth between different sets of taxpayers. >> for highlights from 35 years of house coverage on our facebook page. >> "washington journal"

continues. host: vicky hartzler republican from missouri, welcome back. thank you for being here. let's begin with the situation in ukraine. in your opinion, what is the best approach? guest: i think we have to be decisive firm, and fast with our response and come down hard on the economic sanctions that have been put forward are the president. we need to freeze the assets of russian citizens. we need to withhold their visas. we need to certainly not participate in the g-8 summit. we need to try to remove russia as a member of the g-8. i think we need to let them know there will be consequences on the international stage, and they will not have the same platform or standing they currently have now. host: we have read in the papers our military is preparing moving assets over to the region , additional assets over to the region. should our strategy include the option of a military response?

if so, what type of response? guest: i think we have to keep all options on the table and project we are serious about this. but i don't think at this time we need to advocate for any particular military operation certainly, we would hope putin would see it is not in his best interest and is long-term trade interest, is long-term economic interest, or his standing on international world stage to continue in the same path. that is where i think we should stand right now. host: are we obligated to respond to protect ukraine after 1994 the ukrainian president wrote yesterday that ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear weapons in exchange for the guarantee from the u.s., russia and britain, that it sovereignty would be protected? guest: it was a political agreement. it was not an official agreement such as like nato that was

approved, so there is a little bit of a difference there. we don't have legally the same obligations that we would to a fellow nato country, but certainly, it was an agreement they made in good faith. we should stand by them as much as we can, and look strong like we're doing, and change our relationship as russia -- with russia as a result of their actions. host: do you agree with the actions the president has taken so far? guest: yes. host: what else should we see him do? guest: we need to take steps to remove russia from the g-8 group and certainly stop any further negotiations with them as far as trade agreements. i think that makes sense. host: what will be the impact on the u.s., do you think, if we go ahead with economic sanctions? will we feel it here in the u.s.? guest: i don't think so as perhaps as much as russia would

feel it from us. and certainly of the european union joined with this, they have more trade agreements and we do in some ways, some direct implications there. but that is where i think we need to expand our sales of exports of natural gas and other resources to help ukraine as well as the countries in europe to have another source for their energy. host: i want to show you what rand paul had to say yesterday. here's his argument. [video clip] >> i support the sanctions on the russians. i support the military and technical assistance. but i have trouble with the loan is since -- assistance in the sense that i believe it will be a gift and a benefit to russia. ukrainians owe about $20 billion to $30 billion to the russians.

bailing out russian indemnity to the ukraine, i don't think is a way to punish the ukraine. or the way to punish russia. i think it sends the wrong signal. there are other questions you might ask if you're going to loan money to ukraine. i would ask for a show of hands of those who would personally i ukrainian debt. ukrainian debt is rated triple c minus. not one person in this room would buy it. there is no expectation they can pay it back. ukraine is rated as one of the least transparent nations in the world and one of the most corrupt nations. what senator mccain has pointed out with corruption is precisely why the imf quit sending money to the ukraine. i think while we are in a big rush to send russia a signal, i think sending russia or sending ukraine loan money that will go to russia's not a great signal. guest: he has a lot of good points, but i think would be up

to ukraine and whether they would choose to use it to pay russia or to i more energy from us. it behooves them to give them some financial tools that they could use to give them some flexibility during this very critical time. host: the house approved a $1 billion loan guarantee recently. did you go yes on that? guest: i did. just to clarify, that is not new money. it was simply add ukraine to the countries that the state department has where they can give assistance to nations. that pot of money is already there. ukraine wasn't among the nations listed that could receive help from our state department. now it is. host: let's get to phone calls. oxford, connecticut, republican caller. caller: the biggest threat to our national security is america's collective fear of facing difficult realities and the inability of congress to a knowledge the sudden, straight of instruction of the third power of 9/11 is impossible

unless primitive explosives are used. -- preemptive explosives are used. would you meet with building experts in finding out what really brought down holding seven? host: he is part of a group that calls in the this program were skeptical of investigation that was done by congress. you are fairly new to congress, but do you support -- have you looked into it? guest: i've not heard that. i am a member of the armed services committee and agricultural committee and budget committee. if he wants to send information to us, we will look into that. but i would disagree. i think one of our main concerns we have as far as a country and there being threats, a lot of it is our national debt, as was stated by admiral mike mullen chairman of the joint chiefs of staff several years ago. that is why we have to stand strong for reducing spending

smartly to make government more efficient and effective. but while getting our priorities right. i have a lot of concerns about the defense cuts that have been proposed and believe we need to get our priorities back as a country, and provide for the common defense according to the constitution. that is where i think we need to focus our priorities here in congress. host: on the defense budget, the cuts that were proposed, what impact would that have on your district? you have military installations there. what would be the economic impact? guest: it has a lot because we have in air force base in their proposing to divest a fleet of aircraft that is housed partly at whiteman. we also -- they want to move the apache helicopter, take it away from the national guard units to active duty. that would also impact the air force base. in drawing on the troops will have an impact.

we have a lot of army personnel there. overall, it will have a very real and significant impact. host: "the washington times" headline -- what have you heard from your constituents? guest: they're just starting to her about this. we're just starting to get feedback. obviously, it is concerning. it is an all volunteer force. we have to keep that in mind. people don't have to sign up and put their life on the line and served his country. when they do and you start drawing back benefits, it jeopardizes, i think, the future of and all volunteer force. host: here is a tweet -- guest: absolutely. you have other countries that have aircraft and we have to be able to meet those challenges.

host: in "the new york times" there is a piece democrat from california, let the military run drone warfare. he says the cia should work on gathering intelligence, not operating drone warfare. where do you come down on this issue? guest: i haven't really thought about that particular thing, but certainly, the military does it well. that is their specialty. that makes sense to allow the military to take the lead on running aircraft or any other military piece of equipment. host: rachel, california, independent caller. caller: i went to back a caller that called in in the first segment. this is true. this is a project for the new american standard agenda sinus for israel.

we will not support a war in syria. what that is all about, they want to push the war in syria because they want us to get as into a war with iran. this is going to be very dangerous. we should stay out of it. i am a syrian-american. i am also a russian. putin is a very good leader. let him do with russia when he wants to do with russia. george washington warned us to stay out of foreign entanglement and we are playing a dangerous game if we get into world war iii. ushijacked.com. >>host: rachel, is that where you're getting the information? caller: i'm getting it from there and also "the guardian" and also rt and also al jazeera. host: rachel in california. any response to what she had to say? guest: not really. i think there's a lot of

separate issues should talk about from iran to syria to russia. host: any connection between what we're doing in russia and the situation in syria and israel and iran? guest: there is a connection obviously, and that we have been working with putin to alleviate the chemical warfare situation chemical weapons in syria. and certainly there is some potential implications and how we deal with syria and iran if we sever relationships with putin as a result of ukraine. that is something to consider in the whole scheme of the situation. host: cameron, south carolina independent caller. caller: yeah, how are you doing? i know a little bit about the region. i spent 15 years they're putting in the infrastructure in the eastern europe -- ukraine, romania, those countries.

i'm not an actual expert, but i know what itis going on. i have friends there who did me words from the street, crimea and all that good the biggest question i have is i don't understand -- after watching the news from all of europe -- the bbc, reuters -- they are scared to death about this new government in kiev. the reason they are scared to death is they are extreme fascists, and they don't know what is going to happen. host: ok. congresswoman, what do you know about this new interim government in ukraine? guest: the only thing i do know an effort is that the new president is a baptist pastor from evangelical pastor, so i have heard good things about him . so this is interesting news that the caller had.

we will have to look into it. host: south carolina, democratic caller bank at, walter, you are on the air. caller: hello. good morning. i just want to remind america that we keep saying we don't want more and we can't afford another war, but we keep electing people that's going to send us to war. when we keep electing republicans -- you listen to john mccain and all those republicans. if we keep electing republicans come we are going to be another war. host: ok. you want to respond to that, congresswoman? guest: the president is the commander in chief and he is of course a democrat who is negotiating with us and come as he should come as the leader of our country, and i know that anyone wants to go to war -- i don't think anyone wants to go to war and i don't know anyone who is calling for a good but we need to be strong with economic

sanctions and let putin know that we are going to be strong for freedom and standby others in the world, democracies want freedom as well. host: what you read from this whole from pew research? most say that the united states should not get too involved in ukraine situation. 29% said take a firm stand against russian actions. guest: i think it is just, you know, confusion about what are the options, what should we do what could we do. i think most people feel for the people of ukraine. we recognize it is not right to have a country just come in and more or less takeover your streets, your military installations, your airports, just to be surrounded by soldiers and guns, people who didn't do anything.

like our last caller, most people have war fatigue after being at war in afghanistan for 13 years. we need to try to look at other options if possible to avert a large-scale war. host: livingnolimits tweets in guest: a good start is what we passed yesterday, allowing up to a billion dollars of the part of money that the state department has available for other countries in need to give some financial assistance to ukraine to help them during this crisis. so that is a good start. we will have to go from there. a lot of it will depend on the reaction of putin and what happens in the future. host: bill is next in pennsylvania, republican caller. caller: yes, good morning gang. so nice to hear from you, you are wonderful.

congresswoman, i just came from europe among -- came from europe, and i want to tell you something. the woman who called you before the russian woman, she explained to you what can happen. i don't think you should be smiling. i think you should be crying. i've been there, i was there for a month, i know what is going on. everybody is scared. everybody is waiting for the united states to come and get us. i don't know if -- i don't care if you are republicans and democrats, all the same, no difference between you. i want to explain to you one thing, ok? you are going to send money over there. you're going to put sanctions over there. you did it to iraq, you did it to other countries. what did you accomplish for america and the american people? zero, nothing. host: all right, let's get a response. guest: well, we certainly have

done a lot for america in the meantime, but it is most important, our involvement in afghanistan prevented more terrorists coming to this country. that is where the terror camps were, that is where the attacks on 9/11 were conceived. we have a vital security interest to get involved over there. it has been a tough conflict. but we haven't had another attack on our land since that because of the service and second rise of german women and the investment we have made here. that is worth a lot -- service and sacrifice of our men and women and the investment we have made here. that is worth a lot. we need to get the economy going and jobs created and make sure that people have affordable health care, and there are any other things i'm focused on and others are focused on here that we need to address, including becoming energy independent. we have a full plate of things here to work on on behalf of the american people. i am proud to do it, certainly

making sure that our nationstates safe if one of our highest -- is one of our highest and most important priorities. host: the papers this morning talking about the struggles the united states faces to ease the gas situation between russia and europe, if sections were to go through. the impact on europe, especially germany, would be tough for those countries. the headline in "the wall street journal," "are postal to export natural gas faces snags." many have been calling on the administration to lift the ban but even if they did, it would not impact the situation. guest: we need to act quickly to encourage the building of infrastructure so that we can export more liquefied natural gas. this administration has put up roadblocks to doing that. we need to push back on that as quickly as possible. host: "financial times"

reporting that the u.s. will release oil stocks and what they call a test of ability to cope with the crimea crisis disruption. 5 million barrels of oil, less than one percent of the 696 million in the strategic petroleum reserve that will be tapped as a test, according to the "financial times." renée in mississippi independent caller. caller: how are you doing? i want to ask the congresswoman do you know that monsanto, the gm of company, the company that dropped agent orange all over vietnam and contaminated organic farmers' fields, have an ukraine but blackwater -- but blackwater cash b -- bought blackwater. they have basically become an army for the kiev regime. host: renée, where did you learn that? caller: i looked it up online.

just look up "monsanto bought blackwater." host: what website did it bring you to? caller: just google it, look it up in the search engine, you can find it. host: ok, all right. congresswoman? guest: i will have to look into that. it's the first i heard about it. host: i want to ask your reaction to another "washington post" story this on a banq -- this morning. "key lawmaker favors ending nsa data suweeps." "dutch ropers berger is proposing to end the nsa collection of phone data with the system in which phone companies would provide the agency with daily alerts on numbers suspected of terrorist activity.

significantly, it would not call for a requirement that companies hold the data longer than they do now." would you support this legislation? guest: well, we have to look into that. the phone companies have not wanted to keep any data up to 5 years, which the nsa does currently. that is one of the reasons the nsa has said for security reasons it would be good to have access to 5 years of back all information -- back call information. we have to balance our national security certainly with the private interests of companies. if we can achieve the capability to protect our citizens and be able to figure out who terrorists are calling and what they're doing in this country another way, i'm looking -- i'm open to looking at that. host: carl in madison virginia. caller: how are you all doing today? first, let me say i'm opposed to

the u.s. getting involved in any kind of military option in ukraine. economically, i think your representative there said very smart things. i don't agree with her drone comments she made several minutes ago. i have a question for her. i would like her to make a comparison between the united states and russia, formerly soviet union. when something occurs internationally, for some reason, it seems to me both countries are similar in the fact that we like to think with their military first and diplomatic options last. and i'm done. thank you. host: ok, carl. guest: i think in this conflict you see its opposite in that russia has just gone in and did the military first and they didn't try to do any economic negotiations with ukraine. they just took over the area. we are advancing economic

sanction ideas, diplomatic sanctions but i think there is a difference in leadership here. host: john, you are next in massachusetts. republican caller. caller: good morning, everybody. how are you today? host: good. caller: hello? host: you are on the air, go ahead. caller: i would like to ask -- step back a second and ask a question. do you believe that this country as a rule of law, and that the rule of law should be obeyed? we are kind of in the middle of an information age, and when we see the israeli post -- you can read it in the newspapers -- master soldiers supporting regime change in the ukraine and we are meddling in these foreign things, and i have relatives in poland, and the

absolutely have to be -- none of them is married to someone that came out of kosovo. this foreign policy that we have is a disaster. and in the information age, if we have a rule of law, there is going to be some consequences pay for this. i believe there is going to be consequences paid for this. host: john, what do you mean? what are the consequences? caller: first of all, we have done some intervention and some things in the information age where we have been caught in various different operations, going back to the bush administration with the first bush, them encouraging saddam hussein to cross into kuwait and then dms to start throwing

babies out of incubators -- ambassadors daughter throwing babies out a ping to and nsa and cia -- host: yeah, john, think we got your point. are the consequences to us doing what we're doing right now, the united states taking these steps, economic sanctions and otherwise? guest: i don't think so. this goes back to the 1994 political agreement, but an important agreement with ukraine where after the fall of the soviet union where the new countries were being formed and the ukraine had been part of the soviet union and had nuclear weapons, and they agreed to give those up in exchange for they could be a free and sovereign nation and russia agreed to that and the united states agreed to that and several countries agreed to that. russia is going back on that by invading, more or less, their country and taking it over.

it is important for us to have our word means something when in 1994 we agreed we would support them. it makes sense for us to economically push back on russia's violation of the agreement. host: "russia calls aid ukraine illegal amid standoff." "the russian president called possible u.s. aid to the new government in kiev illegal. financial support sought by the u.s. for ukraine's interim leadership would violate american law barring it to any regime that uses force to take over, the russian foreign ministry said." guest: well, i disagree with that. host: why? guest: well, because the people spoke on that regard, and there

was a violation of the former president hurting the people in the country, killing them when they try to very quietly disagree with some of the decisions that were made their. i think he lost his right to remain in power when you turn your forces on your own people. host: jerry in rhode island. caller: i would like you make a point without saying isolationist or anything because i think diplomacy with these foreign leaders from different countries is very important in that there's more educated people that study international relations and international politics that can understand the different idiosyncrasies that people have. the other point that i wanted to make is that we need to be more secure in our own country.

for instance, the american bombing. one of the students was involved in a marathon bombing and i don't think we have the right security in this country to protect ourselves from terrorists. also with the plane disappearing recently, going over towards vietnam and so forth, should we be more involved with some of these larger countries like china and russia? because i think terrorism is affecting all of the larger countries. that's my point and i was waiting for a comment from vicki, please. guest: sure. well i think you are right diplomacy is very important and we need do everything we can to work with other countries to come up with a peaceful solution to challenges we have. terrorism is an international concern.

that doesn't obligate issues certainly now with russia, when we didn't have -- that does come look at certainly now with russia, when we had them warning us of the boston mamas at a time working with us in that regard. that is why we might to settle this as diplomatically as possible and encourage vladimir pridgen did -- vladimir putin to do the right thing and withdraw from crimea and to allow the people to continue to be part of ukraine and for it to be a free and sovereign state. host: tom, frankfort, kentucky. democratic caller. caller: good morning. i hope you will give me time did i want to talk about the welfare of the nation first and then i want to talk about my own welfare. if the american people are ready to see tens of thousands of casualties in their ground troops, go on into russia and fight and see what is going to

happen when we lose that many people. we got tired of losing people in vietnam. we lost 58,000. that is nothing compared to what is going to happen over there. secondly i am next marine -- i am an ex-marine. i served in the 1950's. the water that we marines drank and based in a tank platoon -- at camp lejeune was contaminated with agent orange and other chemicals. i am dying from ischemic heart disease. the veterans administration won't do anything for me. there is a lawsuit before the supreme court right now where a large electronics manufacturer contaminated the soil around their area, shut their factory down, moved away, sold the property to unsuspecting people who are coming down with cancer.

if they lose that case, it is under the same law in north carolina that the federal government is denying. we marines, our lawsuits and our medical care will go down the drain, and obama has instructed his justice department to back the electronics company. we marines are dying, and nobody cares. and i hope everybody that's watching c-span hears me today because if we can't take care of our marines, we shouldn't be over there trying to take care of the ukrainians. thank you very much. host: that was tom in frankfort kentucky. guest: first of all, thank you for your service to our nation could i'm very sorry to hear about your health problems and what has happened and the allegations of what happened down at camp lejeune.

i'm sure that your congressional representatives from north carolina would be very interested in helping you and looking into this and i would be happy to support them as a member of the armed services committee, because it is important that our men and women in uniform who sign up and volunteer for service, that they are taken care of and they are protected. i wish you well on that and look forward to working with my colleagues to help you in that regard. as far as going in to ukraine to my don't think anybody is proposing right now a military engagement of any kind to because of the concerns you outlined. host: kathy in middletown connecticut trade independent caller. caller: first of all, congresswoman, you said that putin chose military action instead of working

economically with the ukrainians. not true. putin offered $15 billion to ukraine. also, you said you supported the ukrainian leader because he is an evangelical. it was an evangelical, bush, who lied us into a war that killed half a million iraqis, but i guess they don't count because they weren't born again. host: let's get a response from the congresswoman. guest: i think all life is valuable good eye not on the foreign services committee, but i've been reading about ukraine as much as everybody else, and that is the only information i had to answer that earlier question on the leadership. from what i have heard, he is a good man, somebody that is worthy of supporting. host: jacob in tennessee, republican. hi, jacob. oh, sorry, i have to punch. sorry about that. you are on the air now. caller: ok, ms. congresswoman i'm looking for a slight bit of

clarification. earlier in the segment, you said there had not been another terrorist attack on u.s. soil since 9/11. would you clarify the boston bombing as a terrorist attack? guest: that's a good point. i would. that is a homegrown terrorist attack. i was meaning from an outside group coming in, like the people that took over the airplanes. but good point. host: robbie, iowa. independent caller. caller: hi. this agreement they reached in 1994 where ukraine agreed to give up their nuclear weapons and so the united states -- you think it is our job to take care -- why didn't the united states and russia and israel have to give up theirs? why are we making every other country not have nuclear weapons when we are the 2 biggest holders of them? guest: that's a good question.

i wasn't involved in that and wasn't in office at that point. but i see your point. host: republican from missouri serving your second term represents the fourth district of missouri, on the armed services committee and the budget committee. we will go to steve in pittsburgh, democratic caller. hi, steve. steve, my apologies. you are on the air. caller: good morning. i wanted to comment on this state of the balkan states near the russian border. this all started with george bush, the invasion of georgia and then also with the invasion of ukraine. i think this all starts with peace through strength but i think there is a lack of leadership. this president is very weak as far as giving flexibility to the russian government and also withdrawing the anti-defense

missiles from poland and the czech republic. i wanted to know your comment on that, rappers ended. guest: i agree. i think the president's foreign policy has been fixed at best, and his lack of priority for our defense and defense budget is coming back to haunt us. i think vladimir putin smells weakness. you are correct. i disagree with the president and that when he changed his missile defense policy in poland and backed off from the commitment there to allow them to have a more advanced system of missile defense that had been promised to them, and i think that the new start treaty was wrong. we end up losing a lot more than we gain in that in that we are having to draw down our nuclear arsenal and russia do not have that large of an arsenal to begin with and doesn't have to draw down hardly any of theirs.

we are weakening ourselves at the expense, i think, of what is going on over there. with this defense budget that has been proposed a couple of weeks ago, we are going to be reducing our defense budget 1/5 over the course of 10 years, and you have china doubling their military budget, and the russians military budget going up 30%. they are prioritizing and building up their military at the same time we are drawing down. i think it is wrong and that is why we will continue to fight to replace these defense cuts. host: john in california, republican hoping -- republican caller. caller: thanks for the opportunity. congressman hartzler i can't believe what you are saying could you want to spend $1 billion going to ukraine, and here i am, republican out of work needing to extend benefits

and you can't find money to take care of us but you can find money to protect corporate investments, tank of america general motors and russia. american companies that choose to do work there rather than build american products, probably because of epa regulations on and you can't find a way to communicate to the senate that they need to take care of americans first. callers all across the country are talking about the misled priorities and stuffed it as a former military guy, i know that we purposely gave saddam hussein new weapons and he ended up using them on his people. this idea that bush lied is an idiotic thing and i continue to hear about these people call about the tower blowing up and they have that going and not the voice of take care of her megan jobs come i can't believe it, and i wish you would talk to your senator for me and let her

know that we need to vote extended benefits and find a way of paying for american stuff first. don't touch social security, cut government spending. when you think about every time -- host: i'm going to leave it there, because i will have the congresswoman respond. guest: you brought up a lot of good points there. we need to get our economy going and the jobs of the way to do it is to back off on a lot of the negative policies that are hurting job creation. you talked about the epa. there is a lot of regulation about agencies hampering job creation in our communities. that needs to be -- that needs to end and we need to be more business friendly. we need to have health care that is accessible and affordable. that means replacing obamacare which is hurting job creation.

there are things we need you to unleash our economy and get a growing again and have people have jobs again. that is what i am working on. host: robert in toledo, ohio. independent caller. caller: hello? host: morning, you are on the air. caller: a few brief points. i've been following this for months. if she would listen to victoria nuland's taped conversation from the u.s. state department, she would understand that neo-nazis are involved in this. the government of united states has been well aware coup we are backing. we have spent -- who we are backing could spend $5 billion on the orange revolution. they are a neo-nazi organization. it is a simple fact. you can watch john mccain

meeting with their later, and it is amazing how often john mccain meets with terrorists. host: robert, where did you see that? caller: you can look at it on many sources on the internet. the internet is delete -- the only place to get information anymore. media is useless. guest:. guest: have not heard of that before. host: what are you watching closely on the situation in ukraine? guest: we are going to watch what happens on sunday with the vote. there is a lot of coercion and pressure going on on the people in crimea. and then there will be a referendum in moscow, that they will have to vote on, whether to accept and have crimea become part of their country. in the meantime we will continue to let putin know that he will

have consequences for doing this and that is not the right thing to do. he needs to respect the '94 agreement, he needs to respect ukraine's right to sovereignty and to be a free and independent country. host: this topical, but for the health affairs committee when secretary of state this this topic will come up before the foreign affairs committee when secretary of state john kerry testifies this happening. thank you from talking to our viewers. we will go next to marcy kaptur, congresswoman from ohio, democrat, ukrainian caucus founder and cochair. and later, the role of corporate money in washington with a "new york times" reporter. all that after an update from c-span radio. >> an update on the missing relationship from "the wall street journal." -- missing malaysian jet from "the wall street journal." the report that the airliner may have kept flying for hours has

been denied. there is still no sign of the plane. laura diamond reporting finds that, in her words, "the u.s. has less than five percent of the was published but 25% of the world's incarcerated publishing." -- population." the prison population has increased 700% in the last 10 years. they account for a full quarter of the department of justice's budget could have been made are serving time for drug-related offenses, the majority of which are marijuana. while the number of incarcerated persons has skyrocketed over the past few decades, the amount of prison space has not expanded to accommodate it. this story from laura diamond. attorney general eric holder will be weighing in on the present operation today.

he is expected to formally endorse shorter sentencing guidelines for nonviolent drug crimes. he will appear before the u.s. sentencing commission. that idea suggested the action -- the panel initially suggested action. general holder says that harsh penalties should be for the worst offenses. the commission isn't expected to vote until at least april. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> c-span -- we bring public affairs events from washington directly to you, putting it in the room at commercial hearings, white house event, briefings and conferences, and complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house. c-span, created by the cable tv industry 35 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. watch us in hd, like us on facebook, and follow us on twitter. >> "washington journal" continues. host: congresswoman marcy captor

is back on our table, democrat from ohio, sits on the appropriations committee founder and cochair of the congressional ukrainian caucus. i want to begin with your personal ties to ukraine. why did you found this caucus, when did you do that, and what is the goal? guest: first of all, i'm a founding member of the caucus. congressman sander levin of michigan and former congressman bob schaffer, now congressman jim girl lack, we all worked to create a presence inside our congress to relate to the newly elected parliament of ukraine after 1991. i have a very long history with ukraine. i'm a polish america -- i am of polish american heritage, but our grandmother and grandfather came from there, fled from thei re before world war i -- host: fled from ukraine? guest: it was a czarist territory than come but the

bolsheviks were taking over. our grandmother came here at 17. because their one cow was taken away. when that was done by the bolsheviks, they couldn't feed themselves, so they came here with nothing. and now i 2 generations later i'm a member of the commerce of the united states. his is such a great country, and only because of the liberty that we have a mileage of stress my opinion on behalf of the people ever present, and also u.s. a member of the free press. this is so precious. this cannot happen in russia. cannot happen still. we hope for a. historian severin about what president -- historians who have written about what president putin has done have been fired from their jobs in russia. our nation is the standardbearer for liberty globally and let's never forget that. host: how do you view vladimir

putin? guest: unfortunately -- [laughter] as someone who is caught in a time warp in the past. we have to keep our hand extended to the president in russia, because russian is a european country. her alphabet is cyrillic, as is the alphabetic ukraine. so would polls sou -- so it polls south -- pull south pulls to greece and turkey. but it has never known the liberty. there isn't a mindset for liberty inside the country among its leadership. some is developing, but after the thaw that came after the fall of the soviet union, you don't learn the behavior of liberty in one generation. you hope for it, but you realize the mindset of those who want complete power and control is still there. it is all she has ever known. and so it is important for us to

listen to the demonstrators in maidan in ukraine, led by the young people, the new generation . it was students that led those demonstrations. ukrainian soldiers who fought in afghanistan joined. and just ordinary people who know there can be a better way of life. i traveled to ukraine -- not at government expense him and my own -- more than any other country in the world. my mother drove there in 1973 to find the remnants of our family. my, what we learn. i feel an obligation to inform. i don't think most americans know, because stalin was our ally during world war ii, that no place in the world suffered more deaths than ukraine and

belarus. that region we are talking about. 14 million people in the 20th century, civilian people were starved to death. they were killed by stalin, the secret police. that continues today. that infiltration across the region -- the poles understand it well. our country was dismantled. we have to be mindful that the russians have always wanted to expand, and we have to make sure that the borders of nations are respected, and that they just can't plunder them. host: what is the extent of the united states obligation, in your opinion? guest: first of all, diplomatically and i commend president obama for everything he is doing -- we have to be a constructive force for democracy globally, and we have to play a leading role among the nations

of the world. one of the complexities of the situation is that at the united nations, where the united states and russia and france and china are permanent members of the security council, russia can veto anything we try to do. the president in one sense is blocked because the u.n. can't fully act. but i do believe that the nations that belong to the united nations, that have large numbers of people who have fled or survived the carnage inside ukraine, need to gather. argentina, italy, portugal australia, canada, certainly the united states, poland, keswick stand these countries have people in them, hundreds of thousands of people who understand what happened inside ukraine, and there are more ukrainians living outside ukraine today then inside because of the terror that the people faced there. morally, the world does this region of the world.

host: what about the 1994 political agreement? ukraine gave up its weapons in a change for sovereignty and that recognition from the united states, russia, and britain. guest: yes, the budapest accord where our country was part of an agreement, as you stated, to remove thousands of nuclear weapons from ukraine. it left ukraine defenseless. i can guarantee you the people of ukraine of how to fight, they know how to survive. as one of my relations said to me last july and it was so sad as i left him in the village of our grandparents, and he held his grandchild and he looked at me and said, "marcy, all we do is survive." we need to make sure our voices are heard by citizens like that. his grandson can lead a better life then he is meeting today.

in the ukrainian countryside under this government that is just and deposed officially they were charging farmers, that crept government charges farmers and 19% interest rate. -- that core wrappe -- that corrupt government charges farmers a 19% interest rate. defense of the deposed president -- defense of the deposed president, 12%. the ordinary farmer cannot survive. their spirit is being crushed. the west has to see that, and we can do that the politically as their first approach -- diplomatically as our first approach and then with sanctions and militarily, we have to maintain our edge through nato to make sure that poland and

lithuania, i'm so proud of them they are standing up. there was remarkable -- that was remarkable. liberty is on the march and we have to help her. host: "washington post" on gradients fleeing the country great is the united states accepting ukrainians that are trying to get out? guest: i think that knowing some of those borders, they can escape in many directions. how sad, but ukraine has had a hemorrhage, as has russia, of young people. they don't want to live there. everybody wants to come to the united states because of this great, great country. but they are afraid. they know their history. the sad thing is, the poor, the old women i see begging in the streets when i go there eking out a living, feeding the country, the older women are feeding the country. nobody sees them. it is so sad.

but the united states would be one country that would grant political asylum, i'm sure. canada, the countries that i mentioned that understand. it is important for ukraine to fight for their country. the new generation to fight. but how are they going to fight? they were left to defenseless largely. there is a military, but it can't compare to russia. host: what was your grandparents's native tongue? did they speak it to you? guest: they spoke polish. polish catholics, there were many jews in those immunities, ukrainians, they got along. ordinary people got along. but the government was horrendous. and they killed, and the soviet polls -- i would have been dead, and the church our grandmother was married in, 168 poles were killed by stalin's forces in that church. i first went into that church in

1975 and it is remodeled, but there is a long history to what is happened there. host: derek is the first baltimore. democratic caller. caller: good morning to you represented a chapter. you know what, what really aggravates me is republicans -- they're just perennial backseat drivers. ronald reagan left a $6 trillion debt. bill clinton came in and pay down the debt. george bush came in, $7 trillion. let me tell you something, i'm retired from northrop grumman. i know defense. putin just got finished signing a bill that would allow the military for russia to spend $779 billion in the next 10 years in defense. the united states spends over

$600 billion a year in defense and military, we have 12 aircraft carriers all around the world. host: derek, i'm going to jump and ask you to get your point. caller: my point is that she is exactly right. they keep talking about how the united states is drop. -- is strong. guest: as a member of the defense committee, i can guarantee you that this nation is the strongest military power in the world, and we guard our liberty with huge sacrifices by the american people and those who serve us and the weapon systems and the defense that we have built over the history of our country. today before a subcommittee secretary hagel is going to

testify on the budget for 2015 and many of the difficult choices that we have to make in order to ring down our deficit but maintain -- and bring down our deficit but maintain the strongest defense of the world because america does have enemies. you should know, having worked for northrop grumman, you know them well. we have to be prepared. we have to be eternally vigilant in order to preserve the liberties that have been so hard won. some of the veterans calling it today, but over many generations, your relatives, my relatives, have given to this great country. host: on the energy issue guest: well, i'll tell you what, from the state of ohio, we have had a huge gaas boom -- gas boom in the utica shale, pennsylvania and so forth, we have access gas.

there are huge discoveries in north dakota. first of a, we need to protect our homeland and make sure that competitive rising or mains in this country -- competitive racing remains in this country. and i'm a member of the energy subcommittee. if our executive branch can find ways to ease the pressure on europe through natural gas exports, and it is good business for us, then i say absolutely. host: kim in california republican. caller: thanks for taking my copy i have a son in the military, and i've got to educate the congress woman. i'm a republican but i'm about ready to leave the party. it is too neocon for me. i'm going to register independent. i would like to educate your congresswoman there. does she know about the project for the new american century and how victoria nuland, who is in obama's state department, was working for dick cheney, the godfather of neoconservatives,

and she was meddling in ukraine for these neoconservatives who have had the agenda in russia forever? i heard the website mentioned ushijacked.com -- host: so you think this is an effort by so-called neocons to go to war with russia? caller: of course it is! host: then let's have the congresswoman respond. guest: i have been working with the state department and assistant secretary nuland to find diplomatic means to mobilize the nations of the world. i found her very responsive. and on that front, secretary kerry is working overtime on that very effort. i think that war with russia would not be in russia's interest, nor in the interest of our country. we have to be judicious, we have to be wise, and we have to be strong. and we have to be progressive in what we do. the world community is shocked

at what the president of russia has done. we need to isolate him global ly. nations are catching up to that. at the u.n., in their own spheres of influence and so forth, russia is showing herself at this moment to be living in the past. i understand president putin's concerned about unstable states, but russia has a terrible history of the elimination of minorities. one of my concerns in the current invasion of russia into ukraine is how the cap tars will be treated in crimea. they say -- the president of russia says he is going to have an election, he has mandated an election this sunday in crimea. how would you vote if you had a gun at your head? who can say that is a free election?

observers on the ground, monitors on the ground, they are not allowed in. it is a closed iron door. they cannot get in. it is important for the world community diplomatically economically, to make themselves felt. it is going to take a while to wind up, but remember, we engaged in the cold war for over half a century and we ultimately won. host: i misspoke earlier -- i said it was the ukrainians thing, but it was the tatars in the crimean region fleeing according to "the washington post." what do you make of that? guest: well, they know their own history. joseph stalin slaughtered them. he relocated them. many of them are muslims. and again, minorities are persecuted. some of the bravest moments at the maidan in kiev when you saw the people just coming up to demonstrate in ukraine that

took such courage. i'm not sure the american people fully understand when the priests from the orthodox church , the jewish leaders, the catholic church, the baptists when mr. there on the square -- when they stood there on the square, for them to do that they were fully prepared to be shot. and then you saw later, a few days later, you saw over 100 people shot. where did the bullets come from? where were the snipers? you are dealing with a situation that is unfree. it looks free on the surface a little bit but the deeper you get into it you see how controlled environment remains. and the president who fled president yanukovych they called ukraine a cut have received -- kupchak receded he not only to people's liberty, he took the money.

one of our jobs is to track down where the money is and get it back. host: a new pew research poll us shows that 56% says to not get too involved in the situation in ukraine and here is a tweet that echoes that sediment. guest: i completely agree about nation building in the united states. that is why i first ran for congress. that is why we now see the automotive industry recovering and we see america becoming more energy independent and home. we have a sliding agricultural system. that is not happen by -- we have a thriving agricultural system. that does not happen by accident. we are hoping in the energy sector that new jobs in states like my own will help to advance our economy and make it stronger . i think every member of congress, republican and democrat -- i am a democrat but i work on a bipartisan basis as

much as i can -- has a focus on the economy. everybody is try to make it better here at home. in terms of meeting our obligations to nato, however we have within the regular budget our commitment to liberty lovers around the world, and america can't just stand by and not meet those commitments. i think our first pushes diplomatic, and we're not finished with that yet. economic sanctions that we approve this week, as those begin to lock in with our allies around the world, it won't happen overnight, but over time, we will make ourselves felt and russia will note that what she has done is not in her own best interest. we have to keep a door open to russia. if i could say word about ukraine, ukraine is a great borderland nation. she will pull west because that is part of her heritage, but she will also pull south and east. she is a great crossroads for europe and for asia, and we need to see her that way. we need to understand, her

potential has been capped all these years. she is the bread basket for europe. she is that important a country. this is her century could she will writes, she wi -- this is her century. she will rise, sehhe will. host: go ahead, james. caller: go on the internet and google "ukraine neo-nazi," and there is many, many articles about the neo-nazis that have taken over the government and taken over -- they had a guy become the head of the military, another neo-nazi head of the justice department. these are neo-nazis that have the swastikas and hitler salutes and everything. it looks just horrible. i can't understand why the media hasn't been reporting this and the commerce people don't -- congress people aren't really explain this. guest: first of all, please understand that there is a great deal of russian propaganda that is paid for.

the russian government does skew stories. i actually am as i've spoken out for ukraine, i have watched sometimes how they have skewed my words. there is a downdraft of propaganda. that is all part of the struggle that the situation involves. there is a party that is called -- that is in ukraine, and some of the individuals who have been associated with it you could say our right of center in the sense that they are intolerant of other people's religions, other people's points of view, and some have been banished from the country, actually. the party has been made part of the governing coalition that the parliament of the ukraine is trying to hold the country together right now. trying to conduct free and fair elections in may which of the

world community must monitor good many of the nations i talk about should take a leadership role in that not just the united states, but countries across the world, so that there can be free and fair elections inside ukraine. there are bad apples in every barrel, but i think to call the situation in ukraine neo-nazi -- i mean, that country suffered so much under the nazis. if you go to ukraine and you talk to the people, the nazis turned our grandmother's church into a stable after they invaded . if you go to ukraine and you go to the river and look at the monument in central kiev to the soldiers in ukraine who fought against the nazis come it is one of the most powerful, most elegant sculptures that i've ever seen. i don't believe that that type of political movement can be successful in ukraine because of

what she suffered under the nazis. so that is propaganda, and think about it, from the russian point of view, if you can twist something to talk about nazis and make not cease the enemy -- and make nazis the enemy, the ukrainian people would fight against it because they severed at the hands of the nazis. so it is a clever lyrical ploy, propaganda, but i reckon eyes there are some who have some points of view inside the country, but overall that is not what the ukrainian people are made of. host: do you still have family in ukraine? guest: many, many have died. some were starved to death under stalin. some were killed. the ones who are closest, one was a great uncle of ours who we discovered in 1973 as we drove into ukraine -- we were the only car on the road from poland to a town on the western side.

he had to secretly go from the county that he lived in to meet us there, and we had written letters and everything. yet imprisoned by stallard for 20 years in the gulags -- he had been imprisoned by stallard and for 20 -- fightby stalin for 20 years in the gulag. his brother died in one of those camps at the hands of the soviets. there is a book by timothy snyder a great american scholar ideal university, called "-- scholar at yale university, called "bloodlands." i recommend it to everyone. it is just encyclopedic. it is a great book. host: why did your great uncle have to go into secrecy in 1973? guest: he had been held by

stalin in the gulags for 20 years and so he was viewed an enemy of the state. they made him carry a card. if you travel by train from where he lived to try -- we did not know if anybody was left. we wanted to find out. relatives in poland, they rode and he finally found this in a hotel, the hotel that was monitored -- we were the only guests in this so-called hotel. he through a fortune teller who came to the hotel, and she was told that nobody was here. they lied for three days. finally my mother heard them talking one morning and she said, wait a minute, they are talking about us. i flew down the stairs. the hotel is now called the st. george hotel. we went with this fortuneteller, wound our way through the back

streets until we went into her little apartment and we walked through these beaded door hangers into a tiny little kitchen and there stood this man -- it's hard to even tell you. it was unbelievable. 100 years of history came together in one moment and i knew he was our relative because he held his hands like our grandmother. unbelievable. but to have a government tear families apart, to create such carnage this is a moment for liberty that the free world has to seize, first diplomatically and then economically. no family -- and i am a survivor , two generations hence. how fortunate. but i look at people there who look like me and want to be free. and this is their moment.

host: chesapeake, virginia. democratic caller. caller: yes. first, i want to say that i think president obama is the best president ever. and the second thing i want to ask a question about, i have two nephews serving in the military. one of them e-mails me about the republicans calling the president of the united states lawless, weak on national tv and they are disgracing america. are they trying to send us to war? guest: you know, there are some people who always pick war as the first option. and the american people really are not that kind of people. i think we will be patient. i think we will be strong. and we will work with our allies around the world. don't forget, we don't live alone on this earth.

and when the president of russia invades another country, you think the other countries don't notice? what about greece? what about turkey? it shares the black sea, by the way, with russia and other countries in that region. the world is paying attention. so the united states and president obama -- i think president obama has handled this with such aplomb and he has a few other things on his plate by the way. i am proud of our congress. we did not sit there in stumps back in december in concert -- contrast with other countries. we passed a resolution that stood with the people who are standing up for their liberty in kiev and across that country. we did that in our country. we stood up for liberty here. and then this week we passed a resolution that would allow us to place additional sanctions on many of those individuals who

violated the interests of the own country in stealing from it and using that money -- moving that money to save havens. usually in the west, by the way, so we can track those dollars. and the united states will be on the hunt with our allies for those who rob from the own people to restore those dollars back and help ukraine build her own country. it will take us time, but we will get the job done. host: richard klein tweets in -- do the ukraine people feel safe now? guest: know, the ukraine people do not feel safe now. they are fearful, the airfields -- fearful for their families. those who practice in minority religions i am sure are praying very hard right now because they simply don't know what will happen. the poorest, the weakest would not be able to leave.

and i'm sure they are with trepidation, knowing the history of their own country. that's why i say to americans, what can you do? you can get on the internet. you can try to send e-mail messages. you can read, you can tweak -- tweet. through your churches you can link to other churches who are trying to help, the synagogues. whether the denomination is baptist, whether it is ukrainian orthodox whether it is roman catholic, whether it is greek -- all of these faiths are very predominant in ukraine. one of the ideas i had because easter and passover is such a huge celebration, both the fasting and the celebration of the resurrection for those who are christian, it is a huge

moment in ukraine. and i hope that the world's religious communities will have the most giant procession in world history and invite the world community to come to ukraine. come to ukraine this year at easter time. ansd stand with the people there, profess for -- with the people, regardless of your denomination, and give them spirit. right now they need spirit to withstand their fears and realize their hope. host: are you going back anytime soon? guest: senator mccain took a delegation of senators. i am proud of senator mccain and the senators who went with him. i have the opportunity to join but i decided i did not want to go with eight male senators. i will wait for the house. [laughter] i am trying to get the word out that i think the religious leaders of ukraine, with the bravery they have demonstrated,

should invite the world community to pray in ukraine at this easter season. what a challenge that the world could meet. and let's come across all borders. let poland help. let hungary help. let greece help. let lithuania help, estonia, latvia. all of these countries that understand, and certainly the united states of america. people would go on their own accord. host: tallahassee, florida. republican. caller: i think the congress lady is right on target. we've got to deal with bullies and dictators with power. it is obvious the only thing they understand. i was in strategic air command for over 20 years, starting in january of 1950, and i can assure you that the motto of our profession was correct -- peace

is our profession. we have the strongest nuclear force in the world and it was defective. the only thing i have to disagree with her about is obama. i think obama is a weak leader. he's not focusing on the key issues. i think he's got his plate full on a lot of minor insignificant things but we got to focus on the main thing. and right now it is russia. and again, i think the lady is doing a fine job of we are lucky to have her on the committee. she knows what she's talking about. guest: thank you for serving in the strategic air command. i represent an f-16 facility in my own district. and the work that our military does -- the discipline, the patriotism, the self-sacrifice both individual and the military and their entire family. i have a young cousin who is married to a marine and he has

been deployed several times. we are so proud of you. we are just so proud of you. host: we will go on to dan in georgetown, massachusetts. caller: good morning. i just want to talk a minute about the use of soft power in the united states. it seems like we have made a shift from using hard power in places like iraq and afghanistan, where we have walked into sovereign nations and basically overthrew their governments. and now we are turning to the soft power thing where we cause unrest in countries and the sovereign leaders are overthrown. we don't call it a coup, and then we support the new leaders that have been installed after a forceful takeover come a support

them with our money. a question i have is, is the congresswoman aware of the recent fcc filing against the company archer daniels midland and then i have a question if i can hear a response. guest: i am afraid i am not aware of it but i'm happy to look into it. why don't you explain it to us. it caller: archer daniels midland company, there was a lawsuit with the fcc, where they were meddling with paying off leaders in the ukraine and venezuela. in the ukraine, they were adding money to a vat tax. you had mentioned how the people there were being charged too much money for their good. -- food. the sec filed a lawsuit.

they were paying off millions of dollars of elected officials in ukraine and venezuela and they settled out of court so no facts would come out. like peanuts, $140 million. this just happened in december of 2013. and then we heard all of the callers talking about a high official in the state department, she in -- she actually in a phone conversation with you told me eu to fu -- to the eu, and in the common faith and she is laying out the preferred new leader of ukraine who happens to be in power now who we give the title of prime minister to when indeed it was a forceful takeover. host: i will leave it there, the sec has this on their website from december 2013. sec today charged archer daniels midland company for failing to

prevent illicit payments made by foreign subsidiaries to ukrainian government officials in violation of the foreign corrupt practices act. guest: thank you for calling in. i will become more familiar with that case, but in general ukraine has been called a clip copper see -- cleptocracy under the former regime where it was not a transparent form of doing business. i mentioned how much farmers were being charged by the economic system inside the ukraine, 19% interest rates. they were forced to sell their land and the land was being unmasked by certain oligarchs and set the country. it is a very messy situation economically. and there are a lot of forces at work to control ukrainian farmland because it is globally pristine. farmers don't have the equipment like we have here.

they don't have the best seed. and there were forces at work to control again this global asset that is so precious as world population increases. ukraine is already the third largest exporter of grain on the face of the earth, despite the horrendous economic system. i must say in terms of the government of ukraine now, what has happened under the constitution of the country their parliament by vast majority vote supported the new government of ukraine. and they actually voted and the party that president jan a quote which -- yanukovich, the corrupt one, they fled. even some of those who left, those who stayed inside the country, voted for the new government of ukraine. so, under their constitution, just as in our country, if

something were to happen to the president our constitution provides for succession and it provides for congress to vote the legislative branch has his own power. the same is true for ukraine, and that is what happened. so the current government has been a firm. there will be votes that come in may to have a ticket, to have people run inside that country. and this is where the world community -- you talk about soft power, a very important point. the world community has to be there. the organization for security and cooperation in europe has to be there to help monitor the elections and the united nations, frankly, i think should be selling -- setting -- sending delegates. but of russia or china blocks it -- they have not been open societies in the sense of wanting free elections -- we need to guarantee the elections are free and fair and the world community can help do that. host: james, you are next in charleston, west virginia. democratic caller. caller: a couple of points. one thing -- ukrainian to need

to fight for ukraine. not just americans. and also, for the congresswoman campaign finance reform. someone from another state should not be giving money to another congressman and another state that is representing people. like in ohio, where you are at, there should not be someone from texas sending money in there to beat you when they are not representing people in texas. but this has been our modus operandi for some time and it seems like we are a more divided country than we have ever been in our recent history. guest: you hit the nail on the head. you hit the nail on the head. that is exactly what is wrong inside the country -- inside congress. it has become like to political parties instead of a congress.

we need to do what canada does, we need to do with england does, we need to get the big money out. in my last election there was money from texas that was put against me. i said, who are these people? they never met me. they don't know what i've done. it is frightening. and you feel like a duck in a shooting gallery if the big money comes in against you and you can't afford to buy the ads and so forth. a lot of americans wouldn't want this job because what you have to put up with in terms of those dollars. we are capable of reforming this system but none of those bills to do campaign finance reform has been even allowed to be voted on in the congress of the united states. and the ones that came up years ago that were supposed to be reformed, look at what happened. even more money poured in. so we need disclosure. i am all for disclosure. but we need to control the amount of money that are coming into the political process. we can do better in this country.

host: congresswoman, you are also part of the congressional automotive caucus. i want to get your take on the gm story. the latest headline is that gm says the problem arose in 2001. documents revealed showed gm acknowledged that they first heard in 2001 it might have a problem with the ignition switches, now linked to 12 deaths. guest: i think that the industry, whether it is domestic or the global auto industry, has been trying to meet new standards, reduce the weight of the cars and there has been a lot of new technology that has been added. and it is all in the engineering. and with the electronic systems being installed and sensors to a level we never had back in the last century, there have been serious problems with

acceleration, for example. rapid acceleration that you can't stop in the car. or this particular problem. it is not just the us-made vehicles but this is happening in other places because of the -- because of the fuel standard and so forth. i actually think what we need, and we have not been able to pass this yet, is we need to have a place in our country where we work with the industry to have failsafe backup mechanisms in the electronic systems on vehicles. and we don't really have that right now. there are singular chips that control different -- for instance, on the accelerator, if you really get into the electronics of it, they are not failsafe. and i think we need to move to that and help the industry transition. i can't speak to gm's particular situation but overall, the amount of electronics. think yourself on vehicles --

automatic door openers now an automatic locks and all the electronic components, every one of them can have faults. we need backup systems with each vehicle and do it in a cost-effective manner. host: democrat from ohio, appreciate your time. guest: great to live in a country where people can call in and someone from the press can speak freely and throw questions at us. this was achieved at a very great price and we love this country. let's make it stronger. a few -- host: thank you. coming up next, we will talk to michael smith from -- michael schmidt from "the new york times" talking about corporate money in washington but first a news update from c-span radio. >> war on the situation in ukraine from the organization for economic cooperation and development -- more on the situation in ukraine. members are halting membership talk with russia for the time

being. the group hasn't given an explanation for the decision but many see it as a direct response to russia's intervention in ukraine's crimean peninsula. oecd promotes good governance and economic policy initiatives among the 34 mainly rich world members. here in the united states, jobless numbers are in and they show weekly application for the benefits dropped by 9000 last week to a seasonally adjusted 315,000, a sign the job market is picking up after a slump. the labor department says the four-week average of applications decreased to the lowest since early december. declined indicate companies are confident enough about the economy to keep their staff. as for consumer spending, retail sales rose in february after a decline in january. the commerce department says cnet -- seasonally adjusted retail sales rose 0.3% in february, suggesting consumer

spending has parted to recover after being tempered by snowstorms and freezing temperatures that blanketed much of the country. and those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> i think what happens to hoover as the depression deepens -- and people did not know it was a great depression on day one. they thought it was probably a typical cyclical events. but when that pattern did not hold and when the depression deepened, hoover then found himself facing increasing pressure from the left or greater and greater expenditures, greater intervention in the economy. and he started to hold the line against that and became very much a fiscal conservative balance the budget, save the gold standard republican in the last year or two of his life. and that perceived rigidity on that part is part of the reason why he got attacked as supposedly not doing anything. he was quite activist before his time.

on the other hand he was valiantly struggling against a total statist turn, such as esau coming in the new deal. >> editor george nash on the missing link in herbert hoover's memoirs, saturday night at 10:00 p.m. eastern and sunday at 9:00 p.m. on after wards. in a few weeks, military strategist and former assistant defense secretary will take your calls, comments, e-mails and tweets on the middle east and the wars in iraq and afghanistan. live from noon until 3:00 p.m. eastern. this month on booktv's book clubs, join the discussion on camille joseph's new biography of stokely carmichael. washington just -- "washington journal" continues. host: michael schmidt is a new york times correspondent -- talking about corporate influence in washington. he wrote a piece with these

colleagues, hedge funds holding the leverage of power -- that in the herbalife will fail and lobbying to bring it down. who is william ackman and why is he the center of the story? guest: mr. ackman is a big-time hedge fund manager out of new york and made the billion-dollar bet herbalife is a fraud. and he argued it is a peer amid scheme and regulators need to crack down on it. not only regulators here but regulators in the state. and he has come here to make that argument in the hopes that this doc will go to zero and he will make a lot of money. that is sort of the background. host: he has come here to washington to make that story. howell hit -- did how did he bet the $1 billion? guest: he started shorting the stock in 2012. it took them several months to do this. by december he went public

and said i am shorting the stock, and this is a great thing for america i am shorting the stock because this company is so damaging, it is so awful and it creates so much harm in the economy that if i am able to put it out of business, and i am able to get regulators to stop this country, it will be a patriotic thing for the united states. at what his argument. this is not just a bit to make money. this is something to help america. host: what is herbalife and what is their response to his charges? guest: it is a company that sells shakes and vitamins and different nutritional supplements through a network of distributors, which is a little different than selling them in stores, so that is why a lot of people may not know herbalife. the response is that we are not a peer amid scheme and would make a lot of profit and we are fairly transparent. and they push back on him and they invest a lot of money to make their argument to regulators and members of congress that they are above

board and they are not what mr. ackman says. host: both sides are hiring lobbyists. what does mr. ackman wants and what does verbally at -- herbalife want through the lobbyists? guest: what mr. ackman once is what happened yesterday, an announcement that there is an investigation into the company. he wants the regulators to put as much pressure on the company as possible to provide more information about their sales more information about how they operate. what he believes will happen is the company he believes that has covered up so much, that as they do that, more and more will come out and it will show that a company is not what it says it is. herbalife says a we obviously don't want this to happen. we want to make our argument to legislatures and the regulators about how this is not true and how we are a fully functioning company, and mr. ackman is wrong. but what happened is they have

both kind of going to congress and mr. ackman has been lobbying members of congress to write these letters to regulators saying you should really look into this. and the most drastic example of this came in december when senator ed markey sent a letter to the ftc and the sec about herbalife after being lobbied -- after his office was lobbied. he was not lobbied himself. but he said these letters on the stock went down 15% in less than an hour on the day he sent it. these were simply letters and called for these regulators to look into it. mr. markey does not have the power to look into it. but there is so much attention and so much uncertainty about this stock and about what is going on, that it totally tanked the stock in a short period of time. there is a lot going on, a lot moving. as we have seen, congress can

have very, very big power on these stocks. host: from "the new york times" this morning, your colleagues who wrote the story. "the news prompted a selloff of the stock." guest: yesterday he would say it was a very good day because it shows regulators are interested in looking into what he said they should be looking into. for mr. ackman to win, there is a widespread belief the stock basically have to go to zero. so, yes, yesterday was a good day for him in a sense, but for him to win in the long term, which could take several years they have to go out of business. host: when you say "when" what does he get beside the victory saying this company is a pyramid in? guest: is billion-dollar investment will become a lot more money. i don't know exactly how much money he will make, but he will be doubling, tripling, whatever

his money, from that. host: it is his money? guest: his hedge funds money. they manage $11 billion and they made -- made a billion-dollar bet on this and they manage the structure of what it is. there is not a lot of transparency from them about that. but they stand to make a lot of money. but as mr. ackman says, this is not just about the money. this is about america and about helping people and about saving people. host: how much money has mr. ackman spent on getting congress to prompt regulators to look into herbalife? guest: he claims he has been out spent about 10 to one by herbalife. he says his campaign with congress and that has not been that expensive. what we don't really know from mr. ackman is how much money they spent elsewhere on other things. because they have been paying nonprofit groups for their help in this. and they have been going around

the country meeting with attorneys general to encourage them to look at this as well. so, there is a lot of this in the donations they made. they made donations to nonprofit organizations that we simply don't know about. we only know a sliver. host: why did mr. ackman go to these nonprofit groups, largely hispanic groups? what is their role? guest: he needs not only to book pressure himself on the regulators, but he needs to have the tums -- he needs to have the dem -- victims and people themselves putting pressure on the regulators which means he need average citizens the right letters to the state attorneys general. he needs to have these victims people who have been harmed, able to connect to the regulators and show the regulators how they have been hard. so these organizations help in that movement. host: why hispanics specifically?

guest: well, there is a large percentage of the people that use herbalife who are hispanic. and these hispanic organizations here in washington say that they advocate for hispanics who have been harmed and advocate for hispanic causes. so he needs them to help get the victims and help mobilize against the company across the country. the issue is that mr. ackman says there are all these victims of the company am a but if you start to -- talk to state regulators they have not heard from the victims themselves. they say if this isn't a problem, why haven't we heard of it? mr. ackman says hold on, we have victims to make the argument to say, look at these people, look at what happened to them. we talked to some state attorney generals, and they said even when they brought the victims to us, the victims have not had strong cases and it has been hard to prove their claims and such.

so it is hard to sort of understand, if there are so many victims of this country, why mr. ackman has struggled to get the victims. host: victims of what? guest: of the peer amid scheme. people who invested to become distributors of herbalife and went on to lose substantial amounts of money chasing larger sales and the company. as we looked at it in our story we were not looking at whether herbalife was a pyramid game -- scheme. we were looking at the narrow issue of how mr. ackman has mobilized in washington and across the country to do this. is herbalife a peer amid scheme -- pyramid scheme, but what we wanted to look into is what was going on here, which has not received a lot of attention, and that is the narrow avenue we used to going. host: is this something new corporate influence in

washington? guest: of course not. that is not a new issue. what we find interesting and what is different is that it is a hedge fund that has a short position on a company. what we see a lot in washington is companies, big and small, who come here and say hey, this regulatory issue would really hurt us, or this law or these tax laws would really hurt us. but this is a guy who made a bet against a company who is not coming here to try to get regulators to bring down that company. and washington saw this with the for-profit universities that hedge funds were selling short on a few years ago, that they came here and worked through the department of education to crack down on it. but on this scale, and how far-reaching mr. ackman has done this i don't know if the word unprecedented is the most accurate, but it certainly is rare. host: are companies doing this

now -- hedge fund companies, i should say, betting short on a company and then coming to washington? is this a new pattern? guest: i think this is fairly new and i think what mr. ackman is doing is probably the boldest and most aggressive. we don't know many other examples of hedge funds that have done this and we certainly don't know of anyone who has done it at the scale he has. host: this ftc inquiry, how long will it take? guest: it could take months, if not years, to get to the bottom of it. will the ftc shut down the company or will the ftc come to the company and come to some understanding that they have to disclose more information, that they have to restructure how they do business? i think the idea that an ftc investigation will totally wipe out this company ice -- i find it hard to believe. host: herbalife said we welcome the investigation.

guest: i don't know what else they will say at this point. it's good you know how much business they do in the united states? guest: this is a global company in a lot of different countries. it significant portion of the businesses here but not all of it. there are in china, asia elsewhere. even if they are shut down in the united states, what does it mean from -- for what they are doing elsewhere? that is why some say mr. ackman is in a tough position because even if the regulators here crack down on them, are they going to put them out of business here question mark a lot of people don't think that will happen. and even if that happens, is the company able to go elsewhere? host: you mentioned senator markey writing a letter, his often. congresswoman linda sanchez writing a letter. talk about the role of these members of congress have played and have they had a big influence? guest: congresswoman sanchez what you have is she sent a letter, she says them -- she

says, june 5 asking them to investigate herbalife. she did not make it public. on june 6, mr. ackman was at a midtown manhattan steakhouse and he was with other hedge fund managers and he was making the argument to them that they along with him should short herbalife and he said part of the reason why they should do that is because ms. sanchez sent a letter to the ftc saying they should crack down and investigate herbalife. the ftc had not received the letter yet and it was not public but you had mr. ackman in midtown manhattan making arguments to other people with significant experience host: investors? guest: hedge fund managers. not people invested with him but people managing other people's money. the letter is not public. the ftc has not even received it. and then when it comes out later that month, it is reported later that month -- still not out

there publicly. on july 3, nearly a month after mr. ackman first discussed the letter, ms. sanchez put a copy of the letter in a press release on her website saying they send a letter to the ftc which indicated the press release june 5. even though it was july 3 they were putting it on the website. she backdated her own press release. host: the response from her office? guest: they said that when they sent the letter to the ftc on june 5 or june 6, they set by doing that they made it a public document. to us, that is not our interpretation of public. and the ftc hat even received it at the time. but they said we made it a public document, we can share it with whoever we wanted to. host: does the congresswoman stand by her request for an investigation, and if so, why?

why would she make the investigation -- democrat from california? guest: she says her constituents, hispanics, are being harmed by the company. she said it is something the ftc should look at and that is why i called for them to investigate it. they have not retreated on anything they did. and as we learned, it is kind of a common practice in washington that if you are lobbying a member of congress, you can then get a copy of a letter that they are sending to an organization. the question is here, why is it that mr. ackman who stood to profit substantially from that letter was allowed to have access to that when the rest of the market didn't. but based on what we look at -- the question of whether it was legal or not -- it is legal. host: it is legal and it is a common practice for lawmakers to give a letter ahead of time or take language from a suggested letter?

guest: mr. ackman told us they did provide members of congress with information about herbalife that they could use when talking to are sending letters to regulators. a letter from ms. sanchez was not very detailed. it did not have the specific that mr. markey's letter had but it did the most important thing for mr. ackman, calling for the ftc to investigate. host: cindy is from lincoln rhode island. independent. caller: my question is no airplane struck building seven on 9/11 but it came down -- host: i will move on because that is not our topic. mary and sarasota, florida. independent. caller: it seems really frightening from what i am hearing -- and i will certainly read up on it -- that our federal government is colluding and can even been -- be

corrupted when a private hedge fund can attack a company for profit and use the federal government to be the frontperson. congress should investigate and the house and the senate should really investigate sanchez and markey for being a party to this. as far as losing money in a company like herbalife -- which i have never been involved with -- but certainly i sold avon when i was in my teens and i learned that i was not a saleswoman. i think some people are made for selling and some people aren't and you can't really blame that on a company like herbalife or avon or mary kay. host: i got your point. let's just take the first part of your comment. congressional reaction to your story and the pressure that mr. ackman is putting on regulators. guest: there has not been a lot

of congressional reaction to it. i think it speaks to this is sort of how business is done on capitol hill. and we reached out to senators who we thought would perhaps find it -- would question this and they said they really don't want to talk to us about it. so we haven't heard a lot from capitol hill. host: is william ackman a republican or democrat? guest: i think he is a democrat. he is very close to cory booker and has given cory booker money over the years and talked about his friendship with him. and he did give money to the democratic senatorial reelection campaign commission on the day that mr. markey won the nomination for mr. kerry's senate seat about a year ago but mr. ackman says it is just a coincidence that that donation was made the same day that mr. markey won the nomination. host: talking about corporate money's influence in washington. cap, alabama. republican caller.

the local -- caller: how much has mr. ackman donated in total to various democratic politicians particular mr. markey and ms. sanchez? i will take your answer off the phone. guest: as i was saying, he gave money to the democratic senatorial campaign committee on the day that mr. markey won the nomination. he has given money to mr. booker. he has given money to some republicans. he has not given money directly to mr. markey or to ms. sanchez. his sister did make a donation, a small donation, to mr. markey. but besides that, there is not a ton of donations that he has made. host: a viewer wants to know -- why doesn't the hedge fund manager's activity violate fcc rules against market manipulation? guest: a question -- harvey pitt has great questions about market

minimization -- manipulation. it is a complicated matter that includes having to so -- show that the person was trying to manipulate the market knowingly and willingly did that. that would be a difficult thing to show, experts say. host: who are the regulators that are overseeing herbalife and those types of companies? guest: the sec would regulate it as a publicly held company and the ftc would regulate the function of the company and whether it was operating a pyramid scheme, and that is why the ftc looking into this is such a significant thing for mr. ackman because they are the ones who could take the action against the company. host: who oversees hedge fund managers? guest: that is a good question. host: ron in vermont. emma craddock caller. caller: -- democratic caller. caller: i don't know when it

was, but isn't congress, they can't be prosecuted for dealing in the stock market? but you know, people say fascism could never come to america. guess what? this is fascism. this is private industry using government to enhance themselves. and, you know, my take is, my money is coming out of the stock market. because the whole thing is corrupt. the whole thing is games. host: all right. guest: what mr. ackman says is that he is doing something good for the united states. that he not only stands to profit, but he is doing something that will help the average person and will help ring down a company that has created such harm. so that allows him to make sort of a broader argument that i am not just here for myself i am here for everyone else. host: will he stand to personally gain financially if this company fails? guest: yes, totally.

host: he said he will take the money? guest: he said he will donate all the money he personally makes -- his personal profits -- to charity. he has talked to perhaps giving it to victims causes or educational causes that help prevent people from getting ensnared in pyramid games. host: roger green wants to know who is investigating ackman's motives. exactly what is wrong with wall street, the same greed that caused the recession. guest: we don't know of any law enforcement or regulatory body that is looking at mr. ackman right now. host: talk about the history of pursuing this type of agenda. he has done it before. guest: he did it about a decade ago and he -- it took a very long time to play out and he was ultimately right and vindicated and he ultimately made a lot of

money. i think that a difference here is he has been so public about this. he has had these public presentations. he has gone on cnbc a lot to talk about it. he has come to washington. he has websites that he has created to discredit the company. he has become such a public face against the company in a way that we very rarely see. that has made a germanic, in a sense. you have a hedge fund guy from new york against a company that is based out of los angeles. you have another hedge fund guy in new york, carl icahn, who has taken it -- taking the other side of the trade. you have a germanic background that you don't always have that makes it an interesting story -- dramatic background that you don't always have. it is something that is going on on wall street, across the country. herbalife in china and asia. i think part of that was something that really intrigued

-- intrigued us. host: a viewer tweets in --the case of legalized bribery. we should be mad at the elected official selling government favorite not those buying it. when did mr. ackman decide to pursue this? guest: to that point, short sellers -- i think short sellers are demonized. it is not necessarily fair. if you had been a short seller on enron and was coming to the government and you figured out that bernie made off -- bernie m adoff was a fraud and you were able to bring it to regulators and they were able to expose that and crackdown on it before more people were harmed by them, that is not a bad thing. sometimes that gets demonized. if indeed herbalife is a pyrmanamid game and he is bringing it to light, that is not a bad thing.

the questions people have about him coming in is how he is going about that. is he simply bringing the information to regulators saying, look this is a problem. or is he doing things around the edges in the system and trying to use the lobbying system to do things that maybe he shouldn't be doing? guest: greg is next from georgia. independent caller. caller: one comment is, if you look back at history, you can see where that during the spanish-american war, the sugar was the main thing and cuba we were trying to get at. we bombed the spanish fleet in philippines. here comes ike and he kills the shawl of iraq -- host: how does it deal with the topic?

caller: corporate america and the government -- not the real government but the people running it in the shadows is coming up with these schemes to get all of this money, and they believe they are protected within the beltway. you have all of these people, these lobbyists, doing things for certain people, and you don't never hear where the money is going. host: ok. michael schmidt? go ahead. guest: it raises the interesting questions about lobbying members of congress that are age-old questions and are things that "the times" has looked at for many years and many people look at. one thing a call or raise before was about members of congress trading on this information. there has been a lot of attention given to the issue a few years ago about how members of congress were trading off the information they had and then there was a real movement to create legislation to stop that but it ultimately stalled and it did not change. "60 minutes" did a whole piece

about the members have the information and they would trade on it, and there was nothing wrong with that legally. then they try to change it but nothing ever came of it. host: does the fact that it exists, there are financial analysts trying to read between the lines of what congress is saying and make sales based on that? guest: yes, the political intelligence farms here in washington who can get information from members of congress, from staff members about things that are bound to happen, they can pass that money onto hedge funds and to banks and others who have interest in that and they can trade off of that information. that is part of what is legal here in washington. host: a viewer wants to know -- stupid question, but can you give us a fuller description of selling short and how money is made through selling short? guest: it is a bit located but basically instead -- complicated, but instead of

buying a stock and you borrow shares and you agree to sell it back at a certain point if it goes lower. mr. ackman sort of provided us with a lecture on this at one point about it because he said it is not necessarily an investment, it is more of a position and more of a that. but at a very basic level it is buying a stock say, at $100, and the lower it goes the more money that you can make as opposed to buying the stock at $100 in a additional sense and having it go higher and you making money as a goes higher. host: those that fell short on a company, do they have a history of identifying companies that are doing things wrong? guest: there are research firms, and this is how this all started. there are research firms -- generally the research firms look for stocks that are good to buy but they -- there are also research firms that look for stocks to sell short. some say spotting a fraud is

easier to spot than a company that will make tons of money. this is how it all kind of started with mr. ackman. someone he had known who had been a reporter, he had become an analyst look at these things and brothers idea to him and said, look at this company. we think this is not operating above board. we think it is a fraud and not worth what they say it is. and that is sort of how this all got started. host: alexandria, virginia. republican caller. caller: the conversation is actually greater than what your guest is limiting it to, and i am sure he will look to the future to expand. congress passed what is called a retail investor protection act in 2013. as grand as the name sounded, it was actually nothing about that. it was just limiting to address something the sec was going to work on. but there are the practices of the pumpers and the dumpers, so

many who take the data and are paid to raise interest in an item up and then they just suck out all the money. then the regulatory problem which began around 2009 when something called expungement was opposed to be implemented for special cases only within finra by the sec but has -- but it has become the arbitrator's new tool to go to the industry saying do you want to expunge this? expungement is really important for the listeners and the ones who say they think the system is gamed to understand. finra worse for the sec and the sec is lot a fortress, keeping a lot of people out from gaining data. what expungement is, the history of an industry person, and industry entity, it can be wiped completely off their slate. if someone calls up finra and

goes to broker check to see if there are complaints about their broker-dealer or their advisor that history can have been wiped completely away so multiple people will use that same investor who has a history. there is a group that in a recent press release saying that one broker-dealer advisor had 40 complaints against them. 35 of which were expunged. so had this hedge fund had complaints against them or had related advisers or broker-dealers had complaints possibly involving past behaviors or even on this entity, there is a good chance that the trusting public going to a finra to try to do diligence the research is not getting the real story. host: what you do for a living? caller: i was a journalist.

i now run my own e-zines and a focus on intellectual property and copyright, and the second one is focused on faith. guest: i think the question about congress doing anything in terms of regulatory-wise in the industry or for investors, i think the time for that has probably past in terms of the mood and the public support for that. coming out of the financial crisis that we did, i think we saw as much as what congress is going to do and probably congress would not do anything more unless there was something else that drastically pushed them to do that. another massive event in the market. i just don't see the temperature there being one that would leave that to happen now. host: a viewer tweets in --a clear demonstration of the wall street casino. another says it is based on

capitalism -- based on bribery robbery, looting, plundering. got to get rid of this criminal, evil system. i don't know if we got to this -- you did, when mr. ackman decided he would pursue this. it was based off of a suggestion from an analyst. guest: he received information about this company, and they started -- because they were buying so much to sell short, it took them several months to do this and then i believe in october 2012, he is on cnbc and he says "i have a new patriotic short position." he doesn't reveal what the company is but he says it is a patriotic position and he will be revealing its own and it will be very inefficient -- beneficial for the country. it is then in december that he makes this public, and the stock takes a big hit as he makes his presentation that day. host: today's news on this is

the front page of "the financial times" as well as other papers come a herbalife hit by u.s. pyramid probe. ftc scrutinizes nutrition group structure. kansas, independent caller. caller: mr. schmidt was asked earlier how much of the sky gave to the democratic party. we should also ask whether this -- he was also asked whether the guy was republican or democrat. he works for "the new york times" and it is obvious that he knows this guy is a democrat. the other caller asked homim how much he gave to the politicians and he never answered the question. host: all gone because i think he did answer the question. he said he also has given to ash guest: he has given to both. i don't have it all in front of

me, but the most recent thing that was on there was this donation to the democratic senatorial campaign committee on the day that mr. markey had one. roughly for about $50,000. he has given to mr. booker, he has given to republicans. i believe he has been asked by senator schumer in new york to give money. i don't have it all in front of me. host: you did right and this story about democratic strategists going to california to talk to hispanic groups. who was the person? what was she doing? guest: what happened was mr. ackman has hired consultants in washington and around the country to help mobilize their it in this instance, what happened was that the messages were sent out to local organizations in los angeles that there would be this meeting him and this woman would be

there to discuss an important matter. but it was not explicitly said it was herbalife. then when these people showed up at the meeting, it was all about herbalife and the damages this company has done and why people needed to take action against it. host: who did they hear from? and who is she? guest: she is a former clinton administration official who was recently tied into this campaign finance case, the federal case in washington that was part of a 2008 effort to raise money for hillary clinton. host: issue now a lobbyist? guest: i think she is a registered lobbyist. and she works for this organization that helped mr. ackman reach out to different latino organizations and other groups across the country. host: bill is next in marietta, georgia. democratic caller. caller: great guest. should have had kerry as a

co-guest. i don't know why people continue to do this democrat-republican thing. it is all about corruption. here in georgia, there was a judge running uncontested. he designs and his next day his daughter registers to be the candidate who wants for his office -- he resigns. i would hate to be in front of that judge ever in the state of georgia. it is all about corruption. it is not about democrats or republicans or the aca. it is about people just being selfish and they are corrupt and they needed to be accountable. guest: if we had the resources to look at everything across the country, i think we would find a number of amazing and striking stories. i guess we're all limited by the resources and time we have. host: jacksonville, florida. republican caller. caller: thanks for digging into

this story. i may believe herbalife might change its practices a little bit. i am very upset with ackman. if ackman's stockholders in the hedge fund makes a billion, who pays? i would guess if you look into herbalife's open market stockholders, you will see 401k 's, pension funds. selling short should be banned from the free market. this is not a free market situation. host: i have to let you know because the house is about to come in and gavel in. we have to leave it there. that will be your final thought. michael schmidt, thank you very much for talking to our viewers about your story. it can be found on new york times.com. appreciate it. and now, live coverage of the house as they gavel in this morning. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] 2014.