of the ukrainian people. as i traveled to europe next week to meet with the g7 and other european and asian allies, i urge congress to pass legislation necessary to provide this assistance and do it right away. we hope to provide a significant package of support for kraineans. america's support for our nato allies is unwaivering. we are bound together by our pro found article five commitment to defend one another and a set of shared values so many generations sack cry faced for. we will continue to strengthen nato's collective defense and step up our cooperation with europe on economic and energy

issues as well. let me close by making a final point. diplomacy between the united states and russia continues. we've emphasized that russia still has a different path available, one that dees calates the situation and one that involves russia pursuing a diplomatic solution with the government in kive with the support of the international community. mr. putin needs to understand the ukraineans shouldn't have to choose between the west and russia. we want the ukranian people to determine their own destiny and to have good relations with the united states, with russia and europe, with anyone they choose. that can only happen if russia also recognize the rights of all the ukranian people to determine their future as free individuals nation, vovepbsovepb

rights that people around the world understand and support. thank you very much everybody. >> president obama announcing expanded sanctions against moscow for their an exexation of crimea. >> we're going to take you live to the heritage foundation. they are hosting the lieutenant governor of wisconsin. she'll be talking about her state's efforts to revive the economy and revive the education system. it's just getting started. >> outreach and communication both nationally and internationally to conservative public policy institutions, and policy activist. prior to joining heritage she served as secretary of natural resources as a senior official in the reagan administration, she served as the white house

deputy assistant to the president for presidential personnel and was special assistant to the president and director of his cabinet office. she became a senior special assistant to attorney general and went to the department of interior serving as deputy under secretary as well as an assistant secretary for fish, wildlife and parks. s. done lop currently serves for numerous public policy organizations. please welcome becky to the podium. >> [applause] . >> thank you so much, john. let me add my words of welcome to this impressive looking audience. i don't know how many of you are badgers or cheese heads but we love having leaders from the midwest come to the heritage foundation. we find that they are plain

spoken and winners. so we are happy to welcome our guest frs wisconsin today. -- guests from wisconsin today. as i was preparing to introduce the honorable rebecca kleefisch, i was thinking of one of the women i admire most in the world and that is margaret thatcher. so i went to the website aped pulled up some of margaret thatcher's quotes. why would i think of margaret thatcher and rebecca kleefisch? they are both women. both have been successful leaders. now rebecca kleefisch is a little younger than margaret thatcher was when she went to the prime ministership. but you start somewhere and you do the job that you are called to do with great success, with excellence. and then you are called to do

other jobs. and so as i was looking at some of margaret tratcher's quotes, it made me think of you rebecca. for instance, economics are the mess of the object to change the soul. rebecca is helping change the way people think in wisconsin. this may be a bit controversial. in politics if you want anything said, ask a man if you want anything done ask a woman. she's going to talk to us about some of the things she's done as a leader but part of a team in wisconsin. i've got a woman's ability to stick to a job and get on with it when everyone else walks off and leaves it. part of being a winner and being successful is to take on a task and stick tony:. i think that's one of the reasons why we are so pleased and honored to have the lieutenant governor of wisconsin with us today.

our title for today's program is advancing sound policy reforms. and as you know, that's what the heritage foundation is all about, advancing sound policy reforms. wisconsin has a success story. wouldn't it be wonderful if washington, d.c. had a success story? but wisconsin has one and there are lessons to be learned from our several states across the country and in particular today wisconsin. over the last few years, we've seen a transformation in wisconsin through tough but prudent structural policy reforms the state has balanced its budget without raising taxes, reduced government debt, increased job opportunities -- that's novel, isn't it? >> begun a revitalization of it's education systems and provided tax relief to its

citizens. policy makers at all levels and i might say particularly here in the national capitol of our country can learn much from the wisconsin example. we are here today to hear from someone who say partner with the governor of that great state and was asked by the governor of that great state to lead some of these key policy reforms. so without further ado i'd like to welcome the lieutenant governor of the great state of wisconsin, rebecca kleefisch. welcome. >> thank you. >> thank you everyone and thank you so much for having me hear today. i was wondering whether you were going to go there with that second one. my husband just got back from florida hunting and he brought me back a platter with that quote on it. he brought the girls bore teeth.

you know some of my more famous friends, paul ryan, you probably know the senator part of the pair that cancels each other out senatorial other pair ron johnson and our terrific governor scott walker. today you meet the rest of the family. i know that lieutenant fwove nors tend to be the lesser known of the partnerships in the executive brarge. i'm here for the governor's association meeting so this is something we talk about. however, i have the foreign of having that one day a couple of years ago when 800,000 people knew who i was. they all signed a petition to recall me from office. i am pretty sure it is the first

time in wisconsin history that 800,000 people knew who the lieutenant fwove nor was. but you all remember why that happened. when the governor and i were elected to office, we were facing problems from wisconsin' past. but we were also facing problems of sustainability coming at us from wisconsin' future. i have two little girls. there are sons and daughters who we are accountable to across wisconsin every single day. and so we knew we had to address all of those problems. the previous administration had left us with a $3.6 billion budget deficit and the fwove nor and i had just spent an entire campaign listening to people who said you can't raise taxes on us in the middle of the recovery of this very deep recession. we understood that. and so we made a smart choice

but at the time was a very controversial one. we didn't want our taxpayers, many of whom worked in the private sector to be paying for the benefits of folks they had determined to be the haves. so we asked our government employees to start paying 12.6% toward healthcare, about half the national average and 5.8% toward their own retirement. and we made changes to collective bargaining. to us and the rest of wisconsin collective bargaining was the process by which a bus driver was making $100,000 a year. collective bargaining was the process by which a volunteer school crossing guard, a retireee was relieved of the position because they wanted a paid union employee to do it. collective bargaining was the

process by which taxpayers and moms and dads like me weren't getting the best deal for their school districts, employees for healthcare because they weren't allowed to shop around for the best deal. there was already a health insurance company associated with the union that would do it. so we asked for some changes. some reasonable changes that we now identify as act 10. well, act 10 was what brought all of those protestors to madison wisconsin and all of us on to your nightly tv screens. but act 10 is also the proposal, the idea, the law that has now saved between state and local overnments wisconsin more than $2.2 billion. that's an extraordinary reform. and seriously addressed the problems we were facing both from the past and the future because we know that we want

wisconsin' sons and daughters to have an incredibly bright and prosperous future. we also know they need something to depend on. about this time last year the wall street urinal published an article that is my most quoted, uncertainty is the enemy of recovery it said. in it they said there are currently $261 billion in unspent investments in the american economy because of the uncertainty coming out of washington, d.c. and imagine for a second sh at least in the upper midwest the type of uncertainty that folks were facing. the incredible anxiety of a recession coupled with the difficulty of politicians just not getting along. the sequestration, the fiscal cliff, the government shutdown. one of our congressmen invented a milk cliff.

when you are the state with the cow and corn, the visual for a milk scliff creepy in wisconsin. so our folks and we think americans were looking for stability. and so what we do in wisconsin, what we urge other states to import is some certainty, stability, predictability and that's what we're doing in our state. some of the good pro growth reforms we've instituted over the last several years have led to good numbers are in our economy. we instituted a manufacturers and agriculture's tax credit, something that's going to take tax liability down to nearly nothing allowing them to hire more people in what are the industries not only of wisconsin's history but also the industries of wisconsin's future. we changed our commerce department into a public private

partnership. we call it the wisconsin economic development cooperation. it allows us to work faster and better and be more creative when it comes to job retention and investments and organic job fwroth that will continue our recovery from this recession. and that good progrowth tax reform has been able to continue because we've seen our personal income growth go up as well. over the last several years we've seen good strategies implemented by a good governor. last year good policy allowed wisconsin to post a $759 million surplus, the governor knew where that money should go. it should go back to the taxpayers who earned it. so we did a big property tax cut and a big income tax cut, important things when you

consider that when people keep more of their own money, they can infuse it into the economy in the way they choose, something powerful and something that will eventually lead revenue back to government and produce another surplus this year. but last year in our budget we invested in work force development as well which was tremendously important. $100 million to address wisconsin' skills gap to stay ahead of the curve so we could be globally competitive. we did tax adjustments. we had five income tax rates. we dropped them into four and lowered every single one of those income tax rates and when we realized more money was coming in we did $100 million in property tax cuts last october. after ten years of property taxes going up 27%, it was welcome relief for the people of wisconsin.

when you consider that this year property taxes are actually going to be lower than the year in which we took office, that is significant. but unfortunately it's still not enough. we know we need to continue to implement good progrowth tax reform which we know that even the senate finances committee chair acknowledged the other day, says you must score as revenue positive. we've known that in wisconsin for a good long time. $911.9why when we have a million surplus this year, we're doing the same thing. giving that relief back to taxpayers. we like to equate it going into a grocery store. if you pay with a $20 for $15 worth of food. you don't let the cashier hold on to the $5 and decide who to

distribute it to. you get your change back. governor scott walker gets that. he knows taxpayers deserve their change. and that's why it's going. the average property taxpayer is going to end up with $101 out of property tax relief out of what we call the blueprint for prosperity. that's the median value home of $150,000. yes, virginia there are homes that are worth $150,000. they are in all of your home states, just so you know. the income tax relief for serve going to be $58. and then you couple that with the $322.6 million in with holding changes. so the amount that government sweeps off the top of your paycheck to give its a short term loan is changing. starting in april the average family is going to see about $57.90 back in their paychecks.

their own money, money they can count on starting next month. so april through december you add that up and add that to your $58 and add that to your $101 and you see an average wisconsin family getting about $681 of their own dollars that they can start budgetting for. it's their money. and they deserve that $681 to end it in a way they choose, on 189 gallons of gas, would have been more last week. you could buy 227 fancy coffees with $681. you could buy one night in a washington, d.c. hotel room that is not a super 8. $681 is a significant chunk of change. it is real tax relief and it is

the path that wisconsin is now on. i say that because the governor has said that every single year we are in office, he is committed to lowering the overall tax burden. and he is so committed to that he asked me to travel the state and engage our small business owners and veterans and working moms and dads, even our students and retireees in a conversation about long-term progrowth tax reform. we is it around these round tables and ironically call them round tables and we talk about tax reform. and we've gotten a lot of really terrific ideas. but we need these good ideas and we need them to come from the citizens of wisconsin. right now we're on the top ten of a bad list. wisconsin is the 10th worth taxed state in the entire country. we don't want to be there. but we're looking to our people to give us advice. the sound council we want and we

need in order to be more economically competitive. though we've chipped away at the tax burden, the governor has signed $1.5 billion tax relief into law. it's going to be $2 billion tax relief into law. we know we need to continue to chip away at that number year after year after year. and the people around these tables are fascinated by some really interesting statistics coming out of wisconsin. we're number 10 in the nation for property tax. a full 26% above the national average. we're number 12 in income tax, 28% above. but we're 35 in our sales tax. as you might imagine there have been quite a few people who have suggested that in order to lower the overall tax burden, we turn up the dial on sales tax and turn down the dial on property or income tax.

we have others, particularly our students who suggested that wisconsin switch to a flat tax system. we are the birth place of the progressive income tax. and so it was fascinating for us to hear the next generation of wisconsin people talk about a very big change. this is something two of our neighbors, both illinois and michigan already have the constitutional flat tax. we're looking for the thouth leaders and wave makers when it comes to tax reform. progrowth tax policy is what is going to keep wisconsin and america globally competitive. we get global competitiveness because we have more manufacturers per capita than anyone else in the country. we need to keep our export rates up. and we do that by assuring folks are globally competitive. we do that with good tax policy. we're going to continue to

travel the state of wisconsin in order to get people's great ideas on tax reform. but in the meantime, we're also spreading some good news. because exports actually are up 5% year over year led by 9% in growth in agricultural exports led by 41% in darey alone. but you -- dairy alone. in addition to our export numbers going up, we are putting together other wins. analysts want to see the charts. they want to see the arrows going in the right direction. in wisconsin our arrows are going in the right direction. unemployment is down. that arrow has gone from a high of 9.2% during the middle of the deep recession to today's 6.1%. initial unemployment claims are also going down in our state

month over month and year over year. and more people we know are entering the work force. the arrows you want to go up are going that way too. in addition to exports, we promised in 2010 when we were elected we wanted to see the eation of 10,000 new small businesses. they create between 60 and 80% of new jobs. in wisconsin it's not 10,000. it's more than 17,000 new small businesses because of good policy anyone tives. in addition to our small business numbers going up and unemployment going down, jobs in general is a good story as well. we've created more than 100,000 new jobs in our state after losing 133,000 during the previous administration. we're moving in the right direction. the news is all good. but it could be better. and we're looking for ways every

day that we can make it better. we know that ben franklin once said that the only two things that can be certain in life are death and taxes. we just don't want to kill you with our tax policy. we will leave that to illinois. ing thank you all so much for having me here. if you have any questions, i would be happy to take them. [applause] >> we are going to open the floor to questions. we have two microphones in the room. i'd like for to you wait for the mic to arrive and stand up and introduce yourself to the governor. if you are associated with an organization let us know who that is and then ask your question. what wants to be first?

>> it's great when we have a speaker who answers all the questions. >> good morning. mike from the heritage foundation. wisconsin has had a lot of successes recently, what do you think are the one or two lessons that other governors and lieutenant governors in the nation could learn from wisconsin and take back to their states? >> it is a good question and i think some of our successes come from bold leadership. the governor is unafraid of controversy when he knows he's standing on principle and good values that are going to lead us up the right path, the path to prosperity. i think that's why we saw him consistent and standing strong on act 106789 wisconsin is the only fully funded pension system in america. we stand alone when it comes to the argument we can make to investors, c.f.o.'s who are

considering potential relocations, those job creators considering how to grow organically within wisconsin when we can say we will not be coming after your bottom line because we're not going to have to figure out a way real quick to pay for politicians in the past making bad promises. we're fully fuppeded. one of the things we guaranteed with act 10 is that is sustainable. the direction of our leadership and the willingness to stand behind good decision making is number one. the other thing i didn't really talk much about and that is what wisconsin is doing to address dress our skills gap. we are a heavy manufacturing, heavy ag based economy. we have a full 20% of g.d.p. that comes from ffering. when we address our skills gap, we address these industries but also the ones we imagine will continue to create jobs in the

future. what we did in our 13 to 15 budget was create wisconsin fast forward. it established a labor market information system that gives us real time data to communicate with plorse and employees about the needs each group has to build a bridge over that skills gap. are also allowing for the employers themselves to access grant money to train those new and incumbent workers. we have training grants to access some of these training dollars. had to hook up with an organization to train workers. most of the time it was to train workers you already had. as you grow, you want to hire more folks. the expectation coming out of any sort of educational institution, be it a technical college, a high school or

getting a degree, is your worker will be 80% trained and you hope the employer will train up the last 20% because they've obviously got some worker specific tasks that people need to be taught on. what we're doing with wisconsin fast forward program is allowing out of the box players to access that grant money. the employers themselves and technical colleges, but good groups that will continue to move our work force forward. then we are doing $35 million in a blueprint for prosperity. that's going to address three different issues in wisconsin' skills gap. the first one is the technical colleges that i just talked about. we are strong with our technical training in wisconsin but we have high needs industries that have a number of classes that have waiting lists across our state. we're going to try and eliminate those waiting lists for things

like welding and that type of thing. we're also going to dig deep on dual enrollment and youth apresent isship getting young people into the careers that actually exist in wisconsin and will provide good and bright future. the average manufacturing employee in wisconsin makes about more than 10% more than the average employee in wisconsin. finally the year of the bottom line. the governor rolled this out in the state of the state address. he talked about folks with disabilities having tremendous power to move an economy and community forward when they have the power of a paycheck but also how it is helpful for the employers themselves to hire folks with disabilities because the employee retention rate is significantly higher than the average worker. it's called the year of the better bottom line because it is better if the employee and employer, the funding will go to

vocational rehabilitation so folks can get the training they need.to >> thank you. regard rightn is to work. i know wisconsin has been a front runner, and michigan just past it. would you speak to that? >> your lieutenant governor texted me from the senate floor, so i was aware they were going before, perhaps many others were, at least journalists. right to work is a hot-button issue, as it is among many other states. we have lot of folks who are pro-right to work. i do not see an appetite in the

legislature right now to pass it. we are having our last day of session for the state assembly today. right to work is not on the docket. there has not been a build drive to -- drafted on right work for this session. i cannot predict what they are going to take up after this year. folks will go to act to their districts. people will be listening. i can tell you this -- i am the daughter of the vice president of sales and marketing for an factuer. marketinnu we talk about wisconsin manufacturing. we look at the last 20 years for envelope manufacturing. happy birthday, envelope. i watched my father struggled through years of trying to determine where his plants were going to go. he managed toledo ohio and

kentucky operations before moving to wisconsin. my perspective is unique because my father works in an industry in the new and fascinating ways with every development we now hold in our hands. i have traveled the state talking with their small-business owners, what we call our small is this roundtable series, and i have done dozens of them over the last several years. this is an issue that is being raised by our small manufacturers and our small job and i imagine our legislators will hear that as well. right now we have not honestly been hearing a lot about it. weill say this -- the time hear about it is when we are trying to entice someone considering a relocation to wisconsin. the way we overcome that we are

not right to work is through our workforce. we have one of the finest, most ethical, most educated workforces in america, and we are well known for that. we have the lowest workers c omp costs. if you to earn to an article midway through in a magazine, there is a quotation talking about two fullerton manufacturing companies that because,d to wisconsin of some of the reforms put in place. we remain competitive in all sorts of ways. we are waiting to hear any demand for any new legislation. as we do for any legislation. we are hopeful that the people will dictate what their representatives do as opposed to the other way around. >> it is always wonderful to hear leaders from the several

states talk about competitive ideas. aen you come from conservative think tank, you always think we have the principles and we have the right way of thinking about things, but ronald reagan used to talk about the american people. and one of the things he loved about the idea of federalism was that there would be different ideas to bring up in different states, and it would be the people who would determine how a state would go, and that would create a competitive atmosphere that would raise all the votes. that was a terrific response. yes, next in the center. i would heritage. this is a perfect segue to your comment, achy, because at this and otherar wisconsin states are pursuing real or firm. we are laboring over the most regulatory administration there

has ever been in united states. i would like you to speak to this idea of this continuous preemption of states' regulatory matters by the feds. >> sure, as soon as you said becky, i thought you were talking about me. thank you for that question. it is traffic, because wisconsin has just gone-- we have a republican majority in both houses, so we have partners in our legislature who really understand that our goal here is to grow our way out of the recession. one of the ways we do that is whichh writing the rules, is one of the projects our legislature undertook. they have gone through thousands stateousands of regulations and rules in order to strip from books the ones are archaic, unnecessary,

no longer useful, no longer wanted by industries that perhaps requested that decades ago. from a wisconsin standpoint, we are aggressively going after the red tape that just should not be there. we are a manufacturing state, but do not want to be the red tape manufacturing facility in the state capital. our legislature finally gets that. very helpful. our federal government does not get that is unhelpful. to some sortwant of collaboration, some sort of cooperation when it comes to setting our job creators free to create jobs. toare still struggling recover from this recession. it was not over overnight. it was not a blip on the radar. all of those arrows i talked about going in the right direction, that is hard-won progress. unfortunately, the federal government is not making that progress is your. my advice would be to look to

wisconsin. i think we have a very nice blueprint there, a blueprint or prosperity. >> thank you, ok, let's move across the room here. see anyonei cannot with a microphone, so -- lara truman, heritage foundation. i promise you everyone here is not from heritage. the next questioner will not be from heritage. then we will go back to whomever has a question. since the last election, there has been a lot of discussion about women and conservatives and the republican party. so i was wondering if you could give some thought about how you get women moret involved and running for office and whether it is the platforms we have, the cultivation of

candidates, the messaging, interested in your perspective. >> thank you, it is a good question, and i am a woman -- [laughter] so i get asked it a lot. the reason i actually wish i was asked this question is i am a former journalist, and after my career in journalism, i had a small media and marketing company. as both a journalist and a marketing guy come i was a storyteller. some of the best messengers in politics are folks who get storytelling. that is one of the things unfortunately i think the republican party often fails to do. we talk in millions and billions. the talk and budgets. we talk and acronyms. we talk in legalese. i am not a lawyer, so i do not speak native legalese. i was sworn in, there was still a lot for me to learn.

before we actually even introduced our budget, before our swearing-in ceremony, i would drive back and forth to madison in my minivan and i would quiz myself on acronyms, because that is how people were talking. that makes politics inaccessible for the average mom. when you are talking a different language, speaking in millions and billions, and moms and dads, we budget in 20's and 50's and s, it is above the family budget had. it is difficult for people to understand, and it helps people stay away from something that they find would cause them to have to sit and get a tutor. that is unfortunate. that is why when i was telling you about tax relief i was $101, and i about

could've also told you if you were in wisconsin you could've bought 337 packages of butter at the quick trip butter sale, but the limit is 5 -- [laughter] way toou are on your wisconsin, but no one would ever say to you. are the ways we need to talk to people. we need to meet people where they are instead of where we live. we live in acronym land. there's no way to really change that overnight. in the meantime, when we are messaging to people, let's talk like real people. also, let's not insult women by assuming they are one-issue voters. someone asked me the other day, today actually, someone asked me, well, why do you think democrats are doing so well with women? why do you think they are succeeding with this great

marketing campaign, the alliteration that they have going on, and i said, women are sophisticated. we are independent minds. the last time, perhaps, we got together to agree on one subject was 95 years ago when wisconsin became the first state in the country to ratify the 19th amendment. we all can vote. you're welcome, gentlemen. [laughter] if we cannot treat women as they are single-issue voters, because since that moment when we voted on all one thing, we have developed families and issues that we are passionate about. partythink the democrat assumes we are all single-issue voters. and we are not. i think it is very insulting that they are assuming we are. i think this may well be the year that women stand up and ask for our due respect to treat us

as the independent minds we are. we make it a five percent of consumer household decisions. we make 89% of inking decisions. 92% of vacation decisions, and 93% of food decisions. and we know you are what you eat. and so i really think that we need to start treating women with respect in a way we message, in the way we meet them where they are and speak the language of the average american, and that is one of the things i can help ring to the table, is i am a regular parent. i made the cookies at my kids' concession stand for the little mermaid jr. areuld tell you how people people who are selling tickets to little mermaid junior would have had a sellout on

opening night. families first, not policy decisions made in madison or washington, d c, that may or a not affect us. we want to know how to access. if you're not telling us, then it is hard to get passionate about politics. >> all right, let's go to the front row. >> madison coalition. there are some people who say what women make better team builders than men. you just came from a meeting of the national lieutenant governors association. my question is, who in your mind are some of the other outstanding lieutenant governors around the country, and what kinds of things are you and your other defendant governors are talking about to do together to help the old the right policy choices for the country? >> thank you. what a great question. thank you. first of all, i love the opportunity to talk to mike

collects, particularly from the upper wouldn't that -- midwest. did you know that the governors of wisconsin, illinois, indiana, iowa, and ohio are all women? good for that. republicans, so when i talk about the stars, i will pick them. but it is because i really see great pro-growth policies coming out of their state. i have the honor of chairing the right women right now initiative through the republican state leadership committee, and our goal is to recruit and train two hundred women to run for office as conservatives in the next election cycle. art of what we need to do is continue to identify women who are willing to get into the fray and fight for their kids. and fight for their families and agingfor their urgin --

parents. this is what is happening in america, and we need to join the fight. we are the majority. one of the interesting points about the great opportunity project, and we celebrated its one-year item -- one year anniversary, when we have 53% of the electorate, we are the majority of the voters, the majority of those pursuing baccalaureate degrees, the majority of the population in wisconsin. we are the majority, so we need to get folks from the majority to run for office. but it is challenging, right, and we need to assure women across the country that you can have it all. you just cannot necessarily have it all at once. and just like anything else, running for public office is about prioritizing. but we will help you with that. the stars i think in the upper midwest come across the country, is kim reynolds from iowa.

i can tell you honestly she will be the next governor of iowa. a leader ontic and stem education, which is the future of manufacturing. science, technology, engineering, and math are where schools need to go in order to remain competitive. and you look at international eests scores and you s the united states below the international average, we need to focus on our strengths. one of our strengths is our pride or spear -- our high and your spirit, and one of the best ways you can bring that in american kids is to science, technology, engineering, and math. it is also the future of our country. .t., biomedical, agriculture, we need to make sure we are focused on stem. kim reynolds is focused on stem. the lieutenant governor of indiana is a wonderful colic and

a wonderful harder to her governor. she is one woman you would never have expected to end up in politics. she is an engineer. but is an amazing leader. after a short stint in her legislature, was willing to step up to the plate and lead. today she is a scholar and she is one of the women who is leading the charge for the right women right now initiative. i can count on both of those women to help recruit young women in their own state to run for office, but also be great leaders and examples across the country. fantastic. ok, let's move across here. all right, you want to bring that down to this gentleman here? >> from occupied wall street. >> what is your name? >> [indiscernible] street?y wall

thees, i wanted you to know amount of time that it goes from the creation of the 10,000 to 17,000 jobs. >> thank you. >> one of our proudest of, one of our seeing -- proudest accomplishments was seeing the growth in small businesses, because the 1099 moms, those who start businesses in the service industry, or the manufacturing entrepreneurs like harley davidson who started in their garages are the future of our country, right? it has been he net number, just for they -- it has been a net number just for the last three years. those numbers come out of the department of financial services, and is a special number to us, because those are the job creators that will be hiring their friends and their neighbors. our promise was 10,000, but we

have created 17,000-plus in just 3 1/2 years. i cannot tell you they all have 300 employees, but hopefully they're all on the way. >> thank you very much. ok, who else? the german in the back. >> -- the gentleman in the back. >> i question is, you had mentioned k-12 and send education. what direction is wisconsin taking in k-12 education reform, and what is your opinion of the school choice movement and charter schools? >> for them, for them. wisconsin is the birthplace of modern school choice as we know it. the reforms under governor tommy thompson we think kind of let the way for the rest of the country. and so we did a statewide expansion of school choice in this last budget that we are

proud of. i have girls who go to public schools. wentovernor's kids to k-12 schools. ot every school has -- geography should not determine the outcome of someone tossed ability to get on the ladder to the american dream. our little ones should be able to start climbing that ladder as soon as they graduate from high school. whether they choose to pursue a technical college degree, a baccalaureate agree, or something beyond that, it should be a choice made by moms and dads and the students themselves as how they succeed, not only in k -- 12, but also moving forward. that is they -- that is what school choice does. what charterwith

schools do. school inred a washington. every day we are looking at and for new opportunities to afford parents the choices that they want for their kids. every child learns a little bit differently, and no one knows better than their moms and dads. child's is his or her first teacher, and we know that in wisconsin, with statewide expansion and with the tuition tax credit for those who choose to send their kids to private school. >> very good, ok, let's go over here then. >> good afternoon. my name is todd wiggins. i am a local videographer. >> very good, thank you. >> my question is, you may have gone over to this prior, but what is the approach towards the

growing hispanic and minority populations as far as not only the educational aspect, but the general policy aspects that you have addressed? and what is the ratio of diversity in wisconsin in your areas? >> thank you, and then we will move to the later behind you. >> thank you for your question. we have 5.7 million people in 6.5% african american. over the last several years, we have really invested in both the hispanic and african-american and among chambers of commerce. we think one of the best ways to target minority unemployment is entrepreneurship, because we know particularly in minority communities entrepreneurs start up companies, hire their friends and neighbors. i just got a call of a personal friend that is the head of our african-american chamber, and i

just got a call from her the other day. they are implementing and using a lot of our programs for entrepreneurs. we have a core door in metro no walkie, so we are and old manufacturing city can and a love of manufacturing jobs tend to shift out of city centers into the suburbs and some even offshore. we have had areas that have become naked. unfortunately, for a lot of people in our city centers, that has left a scar on an employment. one of the best ways we can help is by identifying those high-needs car doors -- cor ridors and investing in them. we have the transform the walkie ee project,milwauk and we have invested so that manufacturing facilities and other great start up businesses can move in, but also we are providing the resources to train workers who live in the area.

so that they are not dependent on some of the unfortunate transportation situations that would take them 30 minutes, 40 minutes out into the suburbs in an independent vehicle all, because we know there are a lot of folks who do not have independent transportation. we're largely reliant on that in wisconsin. one of the other ways we are investing, particularly in our minority populations, is to make task force i chair, the force ons task minority and unemployment. one of the things we focus on now is helping folks in minority communities, and milwaukee is an example of where we need to. about 50% of the african-american men in milwau kee are unemployed. we think about the number of a lot, and another number. today in our transportation logistics industry, in one company, our largest one, in

this industry, they need 1200 over the road drivers. if we simply get folks the skills they need in order to take the jobs they want, then we have afforded them an opportunity to have the power of a paycheck. we need to get folks the skills they need, and it goes back to the question about workforce development. we want to make sure that people are in the training programs that they want to be in in order to pursue great families- sustaining wage careers. that is one of the ways we are investing in the african -american and hispanic communities. obviously, school choice and educational opportunity lay a big role in that, but even after high school we need to be invested, because wisconsin has a skills gap. free day, and are totally there are -- between 40,000 and 60,000 open

jobs, and yet we still have people on unemployment. the average person says, why don't you just simply match up those two numbers? in one day, you got all those new jobs you can post. of course, the folks who are posting their resumes on job center of wisconsin, which is a requirement in order to receive unemployment insurance, do not necessarily have the skills that those employers are looking for. what we need to do, i responsibly and government as the safety net that won't bounce people back into the workforce is to make sure that people get the skills they want in order to get the jobs they need. do you see a significant difference in the strategy between yourself and your democratic colleagues in your basic approach to how you implement this kind of campaign, if you will, to educate people as to what they need to do to find roll my own bills -- to

find role models? >> not a lot of difference when it comes to worker training. at a something in wisconsin we are pretty unified about, and both democrats and republicans have championed our technical colleges, tool and roll months enrollments, to get people into careers that exist in our state, and that is one of the highlights i think of our partnership with democrats. we agree there is a skills gap. there's no denying it. we see that as a way we can work together. there is some disagreement on school choice, but ultimately, we know, moms and dads should be picking the best education options for their kids. why force someone to send their child to a failing school when there is another opportunity waiting for that child to help them succeed? we owe that to the future of our state. let's go to this lady

here. sorry for another question that focuses on being a woman and a mom. a nine month old but i work in politics, but do you have practical advice in balancing career demands and mom demands? >> i do. i have been there. congratulations on your baby. boy, girl? what his name? >> [indiscernible] congratulations. that is not easy. happy that you have made a really good choice for you. not everyone makes that choice. that is one of the things about a bitin general that is unfortunate, that sometimes -- and pop culture promotes this --

we see people judging us for decisions we make, right? moms, women in the room? it is the stay-at-home moms versus the working moms, and it is the democrats versus the republicans. there is a lot we have in common, and we should spend more ine supporting each other each other's decisions than we do, and one of the things i hope intoill be able to lean your female collects on. especially the older ones, because they have been there before. seek their advice and counsel. that ice is something said earlier on. you can have it all, you just cannot have it all at once. we were raised as american authors to believe that -- daughters that we could do anything. you can go out there and you can get them. that is true, but the things they do not tell you is that you do not need to a calm push everything in your life on your

first day out the door at the moment you graduate. they do not tell you that there is nothing written in law or blood that says that you have to be earning $100,000 by there are no requirements injury mean the american shame. everyone looks different. we need to spend less time judging what others american dreams look like. when you pursue your career and you pursue being a mom, know that you can view your life today through a special lens. imagine yourself 10 years down the road. imagine yourself 10 years down the road looking at yourself today and the decision you are about to make, whatever it is. not decisions like what you will make for dinner, but big life decisions. road,0 years down the

will you regret the decision you are about to make or would you be pleased with yourself? i can look back at the decision i made to quit my job as a new a -- news anchor and stay home with my kids as one of the best decisions i ever made. in the same right, i can tell contrary orback now and say my decision to run for political office as my daughter went to kindergarten, the year i was imagined going back to work, it was one of the best decisions i ever made. i like to live without regret. as women, we have guilty streaks. you spend feeling guilty about decisions you are making, the more time you have to spend appreciating him and your family and doing good things for the world, contributing to your community

and country. spend time and country. spend time doing that and not being guilty. view yourself through a different lens and understand you could have it all and you do not need to do it all at once. good luck. >> ok. anymore questions? this has been wonderful. i will ask the last question. i served as secretary of national resources, in the commonwealth of virginia, the most pivotal state in the country. wisconsin is pretty nice. i wonder if you could share a little bit about the policies your administration pursued, making the natural resources of the great state of wisconsin available for people. and what kinds of federal lands you have in the state and what it looks like for a growing economy and improving environment. >> that is a great question and a big question. i could filibuster on this. how much time do you have.

outside is extraordinary in our state. i will touch on a few things. our business climate, our department of natural resources, and tourism. let me start with our economy. corporation is helping businesses come along in the right direction protecting our environment. through the economic development corporation there, they are partnering with our department of natural resources for our -- program selection. program, we are basically able to tell our job creators that all the mitigation has been done and all the hoops have been jump through. permits are there. come on in and start your business.

one of the reasons we attract businesses to wisconsin is --ause of our national natural resources. we made news for several weeks a couple weeks: we have the deep freeze. you could walk across lake superior to witness the ice caves. they had needlelike icicle structures that were fabulous. saw in the national news. 15,000 inland lakes. michigan coast and the mississippi river coast. we can say, coast to coast, we just meet in wisconsin. forne who depends on water shipping or making their products find a happy home in wisconsin. the global freshwater research center is in milwaukee, wisconsin. our university of wisconsin,

milwaukee, is leading the way. we are tremendously proud of the strives we are making developing good policies for our department. let's talk about the department of natural resources. if our goal is job creation, we know this can actually play a part in that. one of the things we're doing is .ffering our services typically may have been viewed as a regulatory agency. these regulations in place. we want to help counsel you along the way so we can meet our common goals. in government, as in life, there is always a scale. you have to protect people but also have to make progress. what you want to do is achieve

the balance. our office of business support sustainability aims to achieve the perfect balance. ourre also making sure program through our department of natural resources is successful. , whong up our job creators are willing to go the extra mile when it comes to protecting the environment, and making sure they have opportunities to do things with their companies, as long as they're making great strides to protect our environment. it leads to our final tourism. hunting is a billion-dollar industry in wisconsin. we have the finest boom in the young nation in wisconsin. it is not just deer hunting. we brought a tremendous amount of committed -- competitive fishing tournaments. i just got my turkey permit two

days ago. hunting andrkey providing thanksgiving dinner a little early. hunting is a huge part of our tradition and fishing is a huge part. we're also seeing a growing number of people enjoy our hiking and some of our personal water sports. a cross-country ski event is held in wisconsin every year. who could forget snowmobiling? folks had ample opportunity to do that this year. tourism is the one taxpaying dollar item that is your best dang for your buck in our state. it gets you 6-1 return on our investments. where can put your money you will get six dollars back, why not do that? natural resources, our

environment, and the tourist climate in our state, one of the best wildlife opportunities around, it all exists in wisconsin. why don't you all come and join us? [laughter] [applause] >> that was marvelous. i was so delighted as he responded to the last question that the first point you made is that people are the most important and valuable precious resource. that is what we believe as well. i will present you with a little gift here. it is from the heritage foundation. one of my colleagues is the author, margaret thatcher on leadership. lessons for american conservatives today. thank you for being here. [applause] we are all dismissed. >> thank you.

[indiscernible] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> you will be able to see this event again later today in our video library on c-span.org.

midday, president obama slaps more economic sanctions on in the administration targeting 20 individuals inside and outside the government, as well as a russian bank and shortly after that in response, russia issued visa bans on john .oehner, harry reid the hill writes a total of nine u.s. officials will be denied entry into the russian federation, and among those, that includes chairman menendez of the foreign relations committee and white house advisor danncluding pfizer. john boehner welcome the move and his spokesman is saying the speaker is proud to be included among most of those willing to stand against wooten's aggression. responding on twitter, john mccain tweeted "i am proud to be sanctioned --

afternoon, the president us his focus on women in the economy. about an hour and 20 minutes away. the focus on syria this afternoon with the former ambassador to syria, robert ford, speaking at the wilson center at 4:00 p.m. eastern. tonight, bill gates talks about on foundation and its work education, poverty, and global help. here is a preview. >> you offer incredible positions. no say there will be almost poor countries remaining. what do you -- what do you mean

by that? >> the primary measure, which has all sorts of challenges, is gdp per person. we do not have a substitute measure. if you do take that, world bank classifies countries with over , moving person per year into a middle income bracket. from low income to milling company or we have today 45 countries still in that low income category. i am saying by 2035, there should be less than 10 and they will mostly be in places like where you have a political system that basically creates poverty, or landlocked where theuntries geography, the disease burden,

disparate ethnicities, mean they have not been able to bring termser a government in of education, infrastructure, even the most minimum things for that. tide notthe rising recognize. hows overwhelming prosperity is spread around the world, from 1960 where there were very few rich country -- now, most and countries are middle income countries. the countries are much smaller. just saying they will all move up past the threshold does not mean they will have poor people within their countries. it does not mean their governments will be fantastic. it will be a lot better, on average, than it is today. >> watch all of the conversation tonight here on c-span. >> to the families of my

smith,l friends, mike krista, and greg jarvis. grace and i extend to you our at the time prayers of this hour of your loss and .ur shared grief it will continue to be so in the future, as long as man has a

thirst for knowledge, we will continue to press outward. in the process, there is risk. the risk is taken by each one of and that risk is understood by all the members of a crew that climb into a loaded spaceship. my concluding remarks would be, as we reflect upon the tragedy, it tragedy the whole nation grieves in, let's remember the remarks by someone who knew something about risk, a gallant lady named helen keller, when she spoke of risk and security. this is what she said. security is mostly a superstition.

nature, norexist in do the children of men as a whole experience it third avoiding the danger is no safer in the long run than out right exposure. listen to what she ends with. "life is either a daring adventure or nothing." god bless, and be with and keep in the palm of his hand our departed brothers and sisters, daring adventurers, and god bless and comfort their families and friends. >> find more highlights from 35 years of house floor coverage on our facebook page. c-span, created by america's cable companies 35 years ago and brought to you today as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider.

>> some of the government's top legal officials wednesday said -- non-us abroad in accordance with section 702 of the foreign intelligence surveillance act. speakers include the nsa's top lawyer, who said the value of surveillance cannot be judged by how many plots a single program may have stopped. the remarks came during this established to investigate the government surveillance programs. >> good morning. welcome to the privacy and civil liberties oversight board hearing. is 9:05 a.m. on march 19, 2014. we are in the brand -- the grand ballroom located in washington, d.c.

this hearing was . all in favor of opening, please say i. to thank the many panelists participating in today's hearing. i also want to thank the board for their efforts in making the event possible. it was agreed to provide the president public support -- the u.s. patriot act. the report on the 215 program was on generate 23rd, 2000 14. our focus today will be on the

section 702 program. the purpose of this hearing is to foster a public discussion of legal, constitutional, and policy issues related to the program. a few ground rules. we expect the discussion will be based on unclassified were declassified information. some of the discussion will inevitably touch on leaked documents or media reports of classified information. in order to promote a robust speakers may choose to references information but they may keep in mind that in some cases, this may be classified. while discussing them, the board members or speakers in a position to do so will confirm the validity -- the validity of the documents. three panels will be today. the second panel will consist of academics and advocates who will focus on legal issues, including

statutory and constitutional issues. after the first two panels, we will take a lunch break and the final panel will consist of a mix of academics, advocates, and representatives, and will focus on transnational and policy issues. board members will pose questions during each panel with question rounds for each board member. panel a star urged to keep their responses brief. the program is being reported deaths recorded and transcript will be posted. written comments remember the public are welcome and may be until march 28. today's hearing will focus on communication -- pursuant to section 202 of the surveillance act. foreignion to acquire intelligence -- non-us persons,

someone not a citizen, located outside the united states without -- retaining a specific warrant. we will turn to our first panel. i understand bob will make an opening statement for the panel. >> thank you. thank you for the opportunity to appear on behalf of the whole group and talk about section 702. i would like to give a brief overview to set the stage. we would be glad to fill out some of the points made here to -- in response of the questions. --you noted, the sections of 702 enables us to robustly protect privacy rights. court approves annual certification submitted by the attorney general and the national intelligence. identified categories of foreign intelligence may be collected.

we target selectors that will anduce foreign intelligence scope of certifications. the court also has to review and improve targeting procedures. targeting procedures ensure we only have non-us citizens believed to be outside the united states, that we do not intentionally intercept domestic medications and we do not target any person outside the united states. the minimum -- the minimization procedures ensure we minimize the acquisition and retention of nonpublicly information available and that we prohibit the dissemination of such information. i want to make a couple of important overview points. there is either a misconception or a mischaracterization of sevenly repeated section

bulk collection. collection based on collectors and e-mail addresses, where there is reason section 702 is not a collective program. from a legal point of view, persons not u.s. persons and are outside of the united states do not have rights under the fourth amendments of the constitution does not require individualized warrants to target him. the type of intelligence covered by section 70 two, targeting foreigners outside united states, has systematically been viewed as part of the president posses inherent constitutional authority. i am not aware of any other country that brings this kind of collection under this sort of judicial process. third, we can explain the

oversight in more detail later. it includes reporting of all compliance incidents to the foreign intelligence surveillance report. andcument we see classified released cleared. the foreign intelligence surveillance report carefully scrutinized under the session. there have been a number of compliance issues over the years. the court never found anything intentional in section 702. the fax communications of u.s. persons may be intercepted is tother unexpected nor unique section 702 collection. the statute itself with the requirement procedures and the legislative history made completely clear country new --

countries knew full well when it passed the section that collections of u.s. persons would occur when their communication with valid foreign targets. it is important to note this kind of incidental collection occurs all the time in other contexts. wiretaps, wect will likely intercept medications of persons who are not targets. when we seize someone's computer, we may find communications with persons who are not targets. , provedder section 702 as consistent, are designed to protect the privacy of the person's while still allowing the use of information lawfully enforcementr law purposes. i want to close by emphasizing section seven 02 is one of the .ost valuable we have many specific achievements have to remain classified so we do

not reveal exactly who we are targeting and what we are collecting. it is one of our most important sources of information. >> thank you. i want to start off and make clear at the end of the program, even though the target may be a non-us person, there will be times when the conversation by e-mail or telephone, will be a u.s. person. my question to the panel is whether because you are gathering communications of that u.s. persons, if indicates fourth amendment concerns, if so, do you believe there is a foreign intelligence conception to the first amendment and if not, how is warrantless collection of information of u.s. persons permissible. follow-up on the comment, is

there a distinction here where, on a traditional wiretap, there has been a judicial determination of the put ticket were collection, whereas there andnly broad court approval not approval of the specific collection? thedly speaking, address first amendment. >> i will take that. this is collection targeting nonuse persons overseas who do not enjoy for -- first amendment rights. that affects the fourth in a -- a fourth amendment analysis. not to say that u.s. persons whose information and whose communications are collected incidentally, does not trigger a fourth amendment reveal. it does. they still have fourth amendment rights. said that thee

minimization procedures in place render that collection reasonable from a fourth amendment perspective. we think there is an exception to the requirement. in thefisa was enacted 1970's, a number of courts held in a number of different circuits that there is a foreign intelligence exception to the requirement under the fourth amendment in light of the special needs of the government privacyhed against the of u.s. persons, concluded you do not need a warrant so then the only remaining question is, is it reasonable under the fourth amendment to collect information on persons and what the fisa courts have held is that it is reasonable in light wethe targeting procedures have in place. i do not know if that answers your question. the requirement is not applicable and was so have a requirement with

it -- which infant -- it is reasonable to ensure we are targeting non-us persons. >> why the minimization procedures may get reasonable? >> the targeting procedures address the acquisition retention and u.s. person information. those procedures are designed to protect u.s. persons that might be incidentally elected. there can only be dissemination about a u.s. person if it is foreign intelligence necessary to understand foreign intelligence or as evidence of a crime. and ine retention rules some cases, a five-year retention limit on how long the information can be retained. these procedures the courts have found protect against u.s. privacy and make the collection reasonable. >> under the minimization

procedures, the nsa, fbi, have their own procedures and they are the same of each other? why that address should not be a concern that information is not being subjected to the same minimization standards. >> they each have their own and the court produces each of those for the cia, fbi, and nsa, and it found them all reasonable for each different agency. they are slightly different for each needs but similar. >> would it make more sense to have the same applied across-the-board? >> i do not think so. to contract the fbi and nsa, if latitude fbi has more in terms of criminal activity thanvidence of a crime does not have that.

it is important to have differences between agencies in terms of having the information. >> the practice that all information collected is subject to the minimization procedures, some questions have been raised and comments were submitted as to whether address books or other information will be considered communication does n. it is important to have differences between agencies in terms of having the information. . >> all personal information is subject to it. >> thanks for all of you for being here. we appreciate you taking your time and making yourselves available. i want to continue on the fourth amendment is russian. could one of you explain the process both inside the executive branch and with the court of conducting the fourth amendment analysis and seeking the court's approval, the fourth amendment analysis, and what kinds of opinions on the fourth that you you have had can talk about it and help us understand how that works. >> the fisa court operates

differently than the regular court. only the government is there. there is not a party on the other side. other than that, we are briefing the legal issues in much the same way we would in a regular proceeding where there is a party on the other side. we have an obligation to persuade the court that the collection is lawful, it complies with the fourth amendment, and as i just explained to the chair, that the procedures comply with the fourth amendment. we would brief the issue, explain he fourth amendment procedures in the court issued opinions and have issued opinions going to the fourth amendment analysis and finding seven 02 collection including immunization targeting procedures meets the fourth amendment standards. it is a regular legal briefing on that. >> if i could just add something to that. in matters that involve the collection of evidence for these proceedings

to be conducted ex parte. wiretap research or applications are all done ex parte, even if they happen to present significant legal issues. this is nothing novel in terms of the approach taken there. >> if i can at one point, in addition to what brad was articulating, as you all know, the 702 process requires an annual certification as part of that process. every year, the targeting procedures for the various agencies are submitted. >> the fourth amendment analysis is once a year of the program overall. >> the court has consistent jurisdiction all year over the program. by statute, the court is required to do a fourth thedment analysis of procedures submitted annually. >> it gets evaluated at least once a year.

>> can you elaborate? what would there be in addition to that one see your analysis? a variety ofd be factors. it could be a need to change procedures a year. donenot believe we have that. there could be a variety of compliance matters. in which case, the court may want to do a review cycle. we were not presented, it would only have to be once a year. a minimum, it needs to be once a year. notob, you talked about being bulk collection. i would like to delve into that more. it is not bulk collection. you talked about selectors. we need to elaborate on that a little bit. what is it? >> it is probably helpful to talk about what bulk collection is. the presidents policy directive, there is a definition i do not have in essentially bulk

collection is collection of communications without relying on a discriminant to make sure you are targeting particular collections to ensure you are viewed more informally. it is getting a whole bunch of communications and then figuring out what you want later. this is not that. it is a situation where we figure out what we want and we get that specifically. that is why it is targeted collection rather than bulk collection. >> i would like to get more into what you are getting. >> certainly. au can probably talk to us little better than i can. >> let me step back and talk about the different types of collection, which i think is necessary to understand how collection occurs. there are two types of collection. targeted, which means, they're are both selector-based. i will get into more detail

about what that means. selectors are things like phone numbers and e-mail addresses. both are conducted with the of electronic communication service providers. both are subject to the same statutory standards. the first type has been known as prison collection. this type of collection, communications to or from specific selectors, things like phone numbers or e-mails, are provided with the assistance of iep's. collection is upstream collection. refers to collection from the internet act bone rather than internet service providers. it is also selector-based, based on particular phone numbers or e-mails. this is collection, too, from,

this is notlectors collection based on keywords. of collection filled a particular gap of allowing us to -- given the nature, there are different procedures that apply to get to the question earlier. the reason procedures are not always the same is that there are both different initiatives. >> my time is up. we talked about the invocations of the collection. we also talked about the fact

that the information collected can subsequently be queried. do you consider that subsequent herbsry a search for the as of the amendment and if not, why not? >> no. the search occurs at the time the collection occurs. when the information from a acquired, selector is that is the time at which the search occurs. i do not think there are any context in general in which a warrant was already in your custody. quest following on that, some have suggested whether as a caner of fourth amendment

you talk a little bit about what the inspirational impact of what a rip -- such a requirement might be? >> this is something so my colleagues could talk about the impact. in general, with other types of collection, whether collection under title i, your regular collection and you have gone to the court and already got approval to target a particular agent in the united states, or moving over to the criminal which youe iii, under are conducting surveillance organized crime or in a drug case of an individual. in all contexts, we collect information and once we have collected it, we have gone the necessary court approvals. we have artie gotten the

conclusion that it is legal to collected. quiten imagine it is burdensome. nsa address it. class a couple of points and then i will turn it to my colleagues at the bureau. a basic point. we have talked and i articulate the two points of collection. to clarify,. queries are not allowed under what i described is upstream. there may be different reasons to have minimization procedures for different types of collection. such are not allowed for upstream. adding to breath point about information collected, once it is collected pursuant to 702, the government can and often will review what it needs to.

that information is under disposal. such a query, when we are talking about collection, it would likely require intelligence -- in order to disseminate any personal beormation, it has to .ecessary couple of comments. you have to think about the fact you are creating a special

.ategory we will normally query that and look through that and look through our collective materials . we look at our collected materials and try to figure out what we have and then move forward. a newuld be creating category of information that would be off-limits from the normal type of collection we do. i do not pretend to fully understand all of the implications that would have. the couple that come to mind would be delayed. additional process you have to go through. you have to think about and factor in the reality he will be introducing into the system. then, as also, result, create a gap, several types of gaps. there are ba disinclination for people because they either do not have the facts fax or it is too hard or whatever to go and

pursue that information. there must be some cut type of connection between what we have and other types of material. -- you would also have to think about, i think, the technical complexity of what it is you are suggesting. it has to be treated differently and that could lead to training issues, technical costs, and you have to actually do it in a different way. quest one brief point is over ae last decade or decade and half, there have been a number of commissions set up to .nvestigate 9/11, ford hood, the underwear bomber, and so on.

consistently, every one of those commissions has found we need to eliminate barriers to making use of the information lawfully in our possession in order to better protect the nation. type ofuiring some additional process before we can query the information, directly contrary to all of those. >> thank you. my time is up. i never had a chance to introduce the panel. for the benefit of the audience, we have jim baker, the general counsel of death fbi, general counsel of asset -- nsa, the director of national intelligence, and the deputy assistant attorney general in the justice department. >> thanks. to the witnesses for being here.

they are well-known for us. we havey should realize now spent many days with these gentlemen and with many of their colleagues at all of their agencies going through the information. and delving deeply into this. there has been a huge amount of time on the part of the agencies to make sure we have everything we ask for and to make sure all of our questions are answered. all of the board members appreciate the amount of time you have dedicated to talking with us. beis very important here to 100% clear. there has been a lot of misunderstanding about the 702 program. i see issues with the program and things we're are talking about. it is very important to narrow the subjects of controversy or

discussion or concern. i am afraid roger may have partly reinserted a problem here. when you said the u.s. person selectors were not used for upstream collection or for upstream searches, they are not used at all at the collection stage. you were saying u.s. person identifiers or selectors are not acquiredearch the database of communications otherwise acquired on a particular basis under the upstream program. quest correct. i would deftly not preferred to introduce more ambiguity. let me be absolutely clear. section 702 collection of any , is onlypstream targeting non-us persons reasonably believed to be

located abroad. the topic i was discussing was in the realm of the lawfully collected targeted information, wanted in the government's possession, the issue we were discussing was whether those searches can be identifiersing within the lawfully collected data. the answer to the question is no with respect to upstream collection. quest when you are talking about ,earch and collect and acquire all of those terms you're using sense, in a colloquial when the government collects, obtains, puts into its database, acquires, you are not parsing those words 4702 purposes. there is not a distinction between the search, the acquisition, you are using all

of the things to refer to the same activities. quest there are some theories out there that when government receives data, that is in collect -- incorrect. the term search is a different term. it means searching information already lawfully required -- acquired or collected. now we have two meanings. it is so hard to be clear on this. brad was explaining a search collect or we first acquire. that is the fourth amendment search. clancy was speaking to the use of the term in the fourth amendment. querying, there is a second use of search in that weird you query your database. quest right. that is the term we typically use.

search inery is not a that case. briefly, talk about this 51% theory. there may have been some slides somewhere where this came from, at some notion of that, it is 51% likelihood, therefore 49% of the time, we might be wrong the person is not outside united aids, and that prison is permitted under 702, can you comment? sure. the bigger picture question is how things are made, that you are in fact targeting a person reasonably believed to be located abroad. sorry for repeating this but for clarity, the statute does not

allow the government to target anybody within the u.s.. it does not allow for reverse targeting or for the intentional collection of domestic communication. as to how we establish a reasonable belief the target is in fact a non-us person located there is no 51% rule that if you are 51% sure, that is sufficient. that is not the rule. i do not know where the misperception us come from. the determination, shorthand to referring to the determination it is a non-us person located abroad, is made and based on a totality of the circumstances. what does that mean? it means an analyst must take into account all available information, an analyst cannot ignore any contrary information to suggest that is not the correct status of the person. it also means any such determination is very fact

specific. i did checking. in our internal training ourrials at nsa, we asked analysts a question along the lines of, if you have questioned pieces of information that suggests a prison abroad and ais the suggest the prison is mistake, given that the score is the is that sufficient? correct answer to that is no because it is not a majority test. it is a totality of the circumstances test. one must take into account the strength and credibility and import of all relevant information. just to add on to the bigger point about that it -- that determination, they have an obligation to reassess. it is not a once and done situation. determinations must be documented before collection occurs.

the documentation is reviewed and every determination is toiewed in increments determine if they agree with that determination. finally, the targeting procedures are reviewed annually by the surveillance court and approved to be consistent. quest can i just add, we review all those determinations and we found an error rate of less than one percent -- less than .1%. it equates to essentially one and 1000 cases in which we're finding the nsa is making erroneous determinations. quest thank you again. said andhe nsa has some of its information that the

information about u.s. persons is collected incidental to a 702 search targeted on a non-us person and the incidental information about u.s. persons was found not to have any foreign intelligence. it will be purged. can you explain exactly what purging means? does that mean he can subsequently not be used at all or it can be subsequently use to retain for some purposes? and finally, at one point and by of notth this decision intelligence value be made? a lot of some questions. >> sure. let me step back for a moment. his information is determined -- please speak a candidate letter. i'm at the tail -- a tiny bit louder. i met the tail end of the table. >> sure. is removedg means

from nsa'systems in a way it cannot be used. there are extensive requirements we have gone through with the foreign intelligence toveillance court to ensure the best extension possible that nsa'technical system can in fact purged data as required by both our minimization is ages and the foreign intelligence surveillance were. -- court. experience, is that to purge or not to purge decision made early in the or is it kept in there until the analysts or whoever has a chance to do some more hunting around and see whether or not other things may suggest that does have intelligence? in other words, if there is such a concern as there is in outside

groups, u.s. incidental since -- information, in the files and later possibility of being queried, i wonder how extensive the purging operation really is. >> to purge or not to purge, that is the question. require aures determination about foreign intelligence be made as early as possible in what one in the technical sense calls a process cycle. it is not something that can be ignored by default. class who makes that? bythe assessment is made foreign intelligence analysts. quest the analysts working. quest correct. they have the one -- they have the most relevant information. it goes to a bigger point as to the nature of intelligence analysis. you all would appreciate it is difficult to determine without contacts the value of any particular piece affirmation. that is why intelligence annuities is also -- often

encouraged of connecting the dots. we would hope and expect analysts make the determination about foreign intelligence within the context of all available information. to your point as to if information is not reviewed, what is the default, this is a large reason why we have default retention times for data. for nsa, the default for prison collection is a five-year retention time. that isso why adjustable or at least is tailored to the specific nature of the question. for upstream collection, the retention time is two years. ofognizing the nature upstream collection and that it may have a greater implication for privacy interests. >> ok. require in his january directive that went to

215 that, at least temporarily, questioning the databank of u.s. telephone calls metadata had to be improved -- approved by the fisa court. why would a similar requirement for seven to be appropriate in the case where u.s. indicators are used to search the databases? what big differences do you see their? theoretical perspective, it is the difference between a targeted question -- the messagehink actually has got the content. >> the second point is going to make is that the operational murdered in the context of 702 would be far greater. if you recall, the number of actual telephone numbers as to a reasonable suspicion

determination was made under section 215, was very small. querieder of times we the 702 database for information is considerably larger. i suspect the foreign intelligence surveillance court would be extremely unhappy if they were required to approve. quest the ultimate question for us is whether or not the oronvenience to the agencies even the unhappiness of the fisa court would be criteria. >> it is more of a question of practicability. if i could at one point that, one must also look at the underlying nature of the collective program at issue. we should be clear not to conflate the 215 program with come onerogram and

deals with metadata and one deals with content. the important point is that the latter is directed at targeting non-us persons located abroad, where is 215 program, although it deals with metadata, does not have it. quest it did have a collective. less your time is expired. we will have an opportunity in another round to continue that discussion. i want to shift to a different topic, about searches and queries. i am happy to have you explain it. my understanding is basically you are looking for other aople's discussion of particular term. i would like to get back to definitions here. there are terms here that would be helpful to understand your view of. what is a target? what is a selector? what is a director? if you could explain those terms.

i want to shift to how those terms might apply in the context. press i could take a stab at that. a target -- maybe we should start with selector. the is the operative term others build on. a selector with the abn e-mail that your phone number are targeting. so you get the terrorist at google.com, whatever, that's the address you have information about, you have reason to believe that person is a terrorist and you'd like to collect foreign intelligence information flowing on that person's account. when you go up on that selector, we say go up on, or target that selector, that means we are collecting information, going to the provider, and getting information related to that person's account. we are selecting real time that particular account. that's what we mean by targeting a selector. you are using that selector. providing that to the company, the provider, to get