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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  April 2, 2014 1:00am-3:01am EDT

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noncompliance means you did not meet the standards we have. havedefect means you may met the standards, but there were something wrong with the state -- vehicle. >> i thank you gentlemen. i ask for unanimous consent that the documents will be entered into the record. i also asked a binder been introduced into record and make appropriate redaction. without objection. objection, in conclusion, thank you to the witnesses and members that participated in today's hearings. they have 10 business days to submit questions for the record. please respond promptly to the questions. anything else? thank you. this hearing is adjourned.
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[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> before the hearing on the gm ignition switch problem, families of victims spoke with reporters for about 40 minutes. by awere joined administrator and several members of congress.
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>> good morning. we are here this morning to talk -- sorry.gm recall the gm recall of a number of vehicles that have defect it switches which has resulted in the death and injury of many people. we have with us the families of many of those who were killed. we're going to introduce all of them at the end. we would like to start off with our representatives and senators. i would like to call on edward from massachusetts. >> thank you so much. thank you to all of you for being here today, especially the families who have traveled so
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far and with such heavy hearts. 2007 chevy cobalt ignition switch. this is the same design that off thatedding shutting off and killing innocent victims. we know the difference between this switch and one that would have worked properly was life or death. do you know the other difference? two dollars. that is right. that is how little this ignition repair.ood have cost to just two dollars. two dollars that could have saved priceless lives of an 18-year-old named natasha. a 16 old named amber.
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a 19-year-old named sarah. and the lives of so many others. that was apparently two dollars too much for general motors. askdollars is too much to stalled andn ion they found the ignition switch had been worn out. two dollars too much to ask when gm received more reports of the car and jens turning off by themselves -- car engines turning off by themselves from 2004-2006. even after they found evidence of nine chevrolet cobalt crashes involving airbags that did not , their failure to act in the face of additional deaths injury, and complaints
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went on and on until just two months ago when he finally decided to recall these vehicles. it made lives and injuries short. it is not as enraging as gm's and the refusal to stop allowing companies to hide fatal defects from millions of car owners. with my i worked the early to create warning reporting system as part of the auto safety loss task to deal with a rollover defects that killed more than 200 atp old. when it came time for the bush administration to implement our
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they gave in to keep their vital information secret here at in 2010 when congress learned of the unintended acceleration defect, wrote an amendment to require automakers to automatically submit documents like accident report into the warning reporting system so consumers, safety experts -- early real worry me warning before a decade of death and deception past. automakers opposed by efforts to make more information public. the bill passed without those requirements. in 2012, the automakers also opposed another clinton make -- request to make information public.
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support the bill that introduced along with senator blumenthal to ensure tragedies like this never happen again. our bill would do four main things to protect our roads and families. one, require automakers to submit documents that first alerted them to fatal accidents involving their vehicles to the searchable early warning reporting systems. second, requires a -- sportation three, it would require transportation department to rate its databases to give consumers the tools that they need to protect themselves. the it would require transportation department to use the information that it has to better identify fatal defects before it claims more innocent lives. this is the least we could do
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for the lives that have and lost in the families that are still struggling for just this. isaiah.for ryan. kelly,hard, amy, michael, joshua. we can make sure this doesn't happen again. from a them, we must make sure that this doesn't happen again. you cannot allow the next chapter in this automobile safety tragedy to have sustained. you.ank we will have senator blumenthal of connecticut. .> thank you thank you for your leadership over many years.
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government, but for your service. thank you to the families who are here today. the loved ones whose courage and strength of being here today really is an inspiration. it is never easy to come forward and to speak truth to power as they are doing today to tell the story of their loved ones who deserve that are. they deserve better from gm products. richard daley, a man who served his country and who deserves and from gm whose products he used. this marine is the reason we are here today, as are the other families. we know from gm's experience that concealment can kill. business decision to
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hide the defects not only to avoid repairing it, but to conceal it. he concealed it not only from customers and from many of its employees, but concealed it from the united states government. gaining the justice system to obtain a complete immunityroad blanket on the legal defects that he concealed. today we have to correct that situation. can do the right thing in three specific ways. first of all, it could establish a fund to compensate these loved ones, the victims, innocent victims of gm's concealment of
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defect if products. that fund will consist of money. it will never fully compensate these loved ones for the loss of -- gmfamily members, but ought to issue a warning that matches the severity of danger that driver the wheel of these defective products. it has failed to warn sufficiently. these drivers of these particular models are unsafe at any speed behind that field. are prepared, they should not be jordan. they should be repaired right away so they can be driven. there are a limited number of models. dealers are doing the right thing and proactively reaching out to their customers and asking them to bring those retina gm hasur
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.ailed to warn sufficiently a key that is to add the can't stop a car and the airbags from deploying, what kind of car should be on endangering drivers and others? as it has been said, i call on have vacaville that we offered them establish accountability and reform the system so that defects are detected more quickly and disclosed more fully and fairly in a database that is available to everyone and i can guide consumers in making decisions about where and how to buy their products. know, we are here about a great american company. gm is an iconic company. brand should be
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reclaimed and restored. itself to dower the right thing despite the shielded from liability in the path it has been given, despite the business decision it made to conceal these defects, despite the harm that has been done. now is the time for gm to do the right thing on its own without prosecution and without the compulsion of the court. do the right name, gm. make this brown or the of the .reat company thank you. have the ranking member of the house commerce committee.
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he is one of the great congressman that has ever served the u.s. congress. >> thank you. we are here under tragic circumstances. today i will have the opportunity to talk to mary gm, and ask ceo of how and why the company took so long to inform the public about these defects and to recall the vehicles, vehicles that they knew were hazardous. now i want to acknowledge the families and some of those of the dems for joining us today and for speaking up about their loved ones will stop i know it is difficult that takes a great deal of courage to speak about what has happened.
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i know they are experiencing the continuing pain that they have been feeling with lost family members and losing them in an accident that might have been prevented had gm taken action sooner. we owe it to you to find out the facts. investigation -- we began our investigation several weeks ago. the reveals a disturbing pattern, and pattern were again and again, gm discovers over stalled -- told these problems with their vehicles and the company did nothing. this morning i'm releasing the new analysis that has ever been released of the gm warranty claims. gm has received
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warranty claims from drivers and technicians who experienced and identify the defects. brushing the ignition switch with their knees, the comments in these reports are chilling given what we now know. i want to give some examples. "bumping the ignition switch area, the vehicle shut off." "vehicle died at highway speeds." off ring heavy, shutting admission." "vehicle shut off
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intermittently." quit running while driving at about 70 miles per hour after hitting a bump in the highway." gm knew about these problems. thank god for these quotes and information. it took them more than a decade to recall the vehicles. you must find out what went wrong inside the company. in introducing a safety accor -- in introducing a safety act in 2014, it will make more
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information on defects available to the public. funding andease civil penalties for manufacturers and companies like gm failed to comply with the law. we must improve the law to prevent the next auto safety tragedy. next i would like to introduce a congresswoman. she's a ranking member of the subcommittee that is holding a hearing today. >> thank you. i will be helping lead the investigative hearing this afternoon but congressman tim murphy. i wanted to come here this
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leting because i wanted to the others know that congress is interested and cares deeply and wants to make sure that this never happens again. i must say that i have been in congress for a want now. see one of these tragic situations come as a mother it makes my heart break. i know how difficult it is. i want to assure them that as we continue with the investigation and as we continue with the lives that were lost will not be forgotten. we will act. you have heard from my colleagues that gm knew about these defects in the ignition system for over 10 years. yet they did not recall these cars. these event recall though they knew that the cars could turn off well going at
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highway speeds. i have been thinking about this this weekend. i haven't think about driving on the highways at 60 miles an hour and turning around because you're cute as the backseat crying and -- because your child is in the backseat crying and your car turns off. that is what happened to many families who are standing here today. people have made more than a financial commitment to these cars when they purchase them from gm. interested themselves and their loved ones to what they believe to be a safe and reliable vehicle. gm owe them that much. week,was in denver last when i found out this information, when i found out there are more than 2.5 million vehicles that were part of this
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recall, i had one message -- if you own one of these vehicles, park it immediately and take it to your dealer and get it fixed. i wouldn't let my children drive this and i wouldn't drive it myself. key and youtake the drive with that, you will be ok. i went into my purse and i got out my key. these are the keys of every mother in america today. these are the keys that are hanging from the ignition of these cars. if you're going to say to people you cannot use these keys, you need to fix it to. it is not realistic to tell people that they cannot use their keys to drive the car. in thisove forward
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investigation, the number one priority needs to be safety. what we will be looking at today for when jim knew the information and why they didn't tell the american public and why the federal agency in charge of -- that is what we are going to find out. i want to say to the families thank you for coming. i want to say to gm that you need to cooperate with congress as we investigate this important issue. let us know why this happened and what you will do to .econcile the situation thank you. >> we will have several family speak now. >> i was your typical
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20-year-old. i had a beautiful red global. it was great on -- and a beautiful red cobalt. it was great. luckily i had a trustworthy car or so i thought. i was driving down the highway when all the sudden my car went from fortify maoists -- 45 miles an hour to zero. i started to cry hysterically. luckily two men helped push my car off the road. backi shut the car off and on, it was perfectly fine. the same situation happened. this time i was visiting my friend in tennessee. as i was driving down the offering, the same thing happened. luckily the car behind me was alert and swerve around me and cursed at me and took off.
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with shaky hands and a racing eyes cometear filled i turned it in danish mutts again and the car was good to go. -- and i turned the key in the ignition again, the car was good to go. carr 10 days of testing the , they said they found the problem. informed that maybe mickey ring was slightly enlarged and if it hit the bottom, it would shut down. which is the key chain and the single initiate emi house key, a few months later, the situation happened for the third time. carmehow escaped a four pile up. i had a pacemaker. dave for me any sign of stress could set off the divide -- the doctors told me any sign of stress could set off the device. car was like playing a game of russian roulette with my safety and that
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of my friends. you cannot even explain the fear and confusion that comes over you. my hope is that the horror stops right now. to beot want any others affected because of this troubled. drivers like me were kept in the dark. i would like to quote my mother's letter to general motors years ago, "this is a safety recall issue if there ever was one. i shouldn't have to list the safety issues that might happen such as accidents or deaths. this needs to be recalled. hank you." talkxt we will have two together. >> good afternoon.
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outelp our daughter pick our daughter chevy cobalt. it had a highly rated safety feature. we know gm was aware the fact that there were problems with the ignition switch before the car was even available to the public and that the problem of the airbags not complying and saving her. gm needs to be held accountable for the debbie and tragic consequences allowing these deadly statistics that deadly issues to be used. they wanted to determine if .here were's culpability by gm it is my sincere hope there'll be changes made to the lot to prevent other families from experiencing our tragedy. is onlyear gm
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consummate the bottom line and not the safety of loved ones. >> my name is laura. i'm the birth mother of amber. it is the first known fatality of the defects. at first it was one and then we were a few. we are now many. there are still more. this is the tip of the iceberg boast that we are the people who were left behind when a loved one got into what was supposed car. a safe car, a gm a car that they knew for years was dangerous and effect if. daughters, sons, sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, lost. and husbands corporate executives made a decision that hiding a problem with easier and cheaper than fixing a problem.
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we need to make sure everyone is aware of the defects. cars have been resold and effective notices will not be sold to them. see the inaught to effect this small message about the recalls that was replaced after about seven seconds. it is a say anything about 13 people who have been killed because of this defect. the language doesn't show the urgency of the message. people with these vehicles should get their cars off the roads until the ignition has been prepared to protect themselves and everyone sharing the roads with them. the second part of my mission is to reform the way gm and other
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car manufacturers do their business. now is the time for congress to act and pass legislation, but will give the public access to life and information. give them the enforcement tools they need to give a warning that this is not acceptable and will not be tolerated. gettingonse will for resources to get the job done. immediate reaction to get them more additional funding. lease help us protect our children pass legislation to make sure it doesn't happen help us protect our children pass legislation to make sure it doesn't happen again. have ken fromg to wisconsin. >> thank you.
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i'm here before you today as a voice of my step daughter, natasha. she was 18. and her friend, 16. they lost their voice and their whole life october 24, 2006 while riding with another friend in a chevy cobalt. it was supposed to be simple shopping excursion that turned into a death trap that her vehicle without awarding lost warning lostout power. when this happened, the car followed a path off the road and went airborne and tragically collided with trees. mark whiskey, altar girls miraculously,l -- all three girls were survived -- all-girls altra the girls three girlsall
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survived. one had to be on life support before being announced brain-dead. survives, but still suffers mental ailments at being the sole survivor. natasha was an only child. jitters and no children for the taucher or grandchildren. -- for natasha or grandchildren. just a hole in her heart for the daughter that she loved. the speed was not a factor. whether wasn't a factor. -- notion -- the ignition none of this had to happen. it could have been addressed and corrected.
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it interned rather -- rather than fixing the problem, they continue to produce the cobalt. fixing it would have saved lives. that be ableheld to hide behind a break up see accept the responsibility and liability of these young lives? no. please help us and stand up for what is right. gm knew it was wrong. if they hit it during the bankruptcy proceedings. gm is liable. conger should take action and pass legislation with tough penalties so the cover-up stop. an easy fix is available. deaths will not
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be forgotten. stop the corporate coverups. congress should act now. the taucher and amy will not be forgotten. amy will not be forgotten. we must protect other families. >> these kinds of statements are victims of these terrible tragedies. i would like to quickly say thank you to advocates who have been a stalwart in helping the victims get here and organizing the best conference. i will quickly read the names of everybody. please hold up your pictures while i do. you can do it all at once . samantha, nancy, shannon,
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laura, darrell, david, monica, rosie, renee, lindsay, phil, don, andn, jane, randolph.
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finally, i would like to the head of the center for auto safety. he has done remarkable work on this issue. >> thank you. center of auto safety. general motors hid the issue for years. there are obvious warning signs. people died in crashes because of defective decision-making at general motors and the government. failure ofomplete the recall system. we must change them all to reform that system. thegood engineer testing it is would realize easy to change the switch from
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the on position to the accessor position. gm engineers recognize this. the recommended a different switch to be put in production. theynagement rejected it rejected it.- gm they recommended a fix and gm said no. lost the started happening. what did gm do? they settled lawsuits of confidentiality agreements by concealed the defects. for them to say they do not know is an advanced manufacture in competency from the agency.
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furthermore in 2007, engineers recommended an investigation based on 29 complaints, 29 -- 29res, 29 injuries crashes, 29 injuries, 29 deaths. estate management began in 2008 to open -- instead comment management began in 2000 and --ht to open -- 2008 to open cash inmarcus sunroof aftermarket sunroof -- and calling -- installing sunroofs, they could've had
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recalls. twosies by small man converters. of opening an investigation into the technician switch where people -- ignition switch where people die, they initiated investigations into after market sunroof is dollars where there killed.one known person that is a failure of the recall system. we call on congress to change wet recall system because cannot afford another ignition switch. fordw years ago in explorer and toyota. only changing the law will
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change the system to save lives. thank you. >> thank you, everybody. if any of the families want to be interviewed, you can interview them here as we finish or you can talk to beth whose t elephone number -- she can handle the press for us on all of this. you everyone knew came. we are intent in getting legislation passed so this won't happen again. is afailure to do a recall i criminal violation. any executive who is responsible for that could go to jail. until the corporations know that they could go to jail if they harm people, this issue will never be fully resolved.
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legislation onr transparency, openness, and fixing the recall system and what you heard today. thank you for coming. we appreciate it. if anyone has any questions anyre we brineak -- questions? ok. mercy for coming. -- thank you for coming. >> this year's winning entries in the c-span studentcam documentary competition. thinkourages students to critically about issues. students were asked to create documentaries based on the question -- what is the most important issue the u.s. congress should consider in 2014? natalie, alix, and max are the second prize middle school
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winners. >> the overwhelming judgment of science tells us that climate change is real and that human activities are feeling that change and we must take action to avoid the most devastating consequences of climate change. >> global warming, climate change, this problem goes by many names. one thing is certain -- it is hurting the planet. changes that are happening in the polar regions seem to be quite far away. you might wonder whether those have fx here in the united states. they do. the state of alaska is part of that. there are many citizens of the united states who leave in the arctic region. more than that, the changes that are happening in the polar
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regions are actually transferred to the rest of the world. >> as these changes become more obvious, and unless action is taken, the problem will worsen. unfortunately, not everyone believes there is a problem to fix. >> the percentage of democrats leaving in, change with from 83% in march to 87% amid the high heat and drought of the summer of 2012. and even among republicans, the number of believers who alleged that climate change was real went from 45% to 53%. the party whose hallmark in congress is denial of climate change. >> any people in congress, particularly republicans, who don't have the luxury right now with the economy the way it is to close down coal-fired power plants that are still working
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and heating our schools or cooling our schools depending on the time of year, that keep the lights on. they think that is more important because that is what people need right now. >> global warming is an issue that definitely needs to be addressed. rising sea levels will affect the united states as well as every other country in the world. >> over the last 100 years, sea level has risen by about 20 centimeters. we expect this to accelerate over the next 100 years. sea level rise may continue to rise by 40 to 60 centimeters over the next 100 years. that would primarily impact coastal regions. the coastal areas around the united states could be impacted by sea level rise. >> if you go out around the chesapeake bay, you will find amenities are flooding. farmers are finding that water is intruding on their fields a
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row or two a year. the other one is going to be extreme weather. drenching rain that is being seen on all the contents of the world. you get more water vapor in the atmosphere. that is the energy that drives storms. when you get rain occurring, you get flooding rains and they can cause a lot of problems. >> the sea level rise, that is exactly right. there has been an acceleration over the last few decades. there are a number of reasons why this is happening. the primary reason is the earth is getting warmer. as we warm up the atmosphere, we also warm up the ocean. when you warm the ocean, it expands. >> when you talk about climate change, as the global climate is changing, but when you talk about impact, it usually occurs and starts a local level. how is it going to affect you or your community or your state or your region?
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and so each region around the country is different. in the 1990's, we did the first assessment or scientific report of impacts around the united states. we divided the united states in 20 different regions. we had them each a think about what the most important issues were. it turned out the one that was common among all of them was water. what is going to happen to water resources. it was very different -- talking about water, the pacific northwest where it is very wet or down in texas where it is very dry, a dry area they're concerned about having enough water and if it's very wet, they're concerned about is it going to come as rain instead of snow or get downpours that cause floods? >> other say, no, we need to worry about it is a global problem. the first thought is, if we do
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something here in silver spring, maryland or even in the united states, that is one thing, but global warming is global, so that includes china, india, and other major countries that have increasing levels of pollution and development. even if we do something here, it may not be enough to help globally. >> the world has suffered many effects of climate change. this animated sequence shows what would happen of all of the ice in antarctica noted, causing the sea level to rise -- melted, causing the sea levels to rise. >> we have an increase in sea level rise where the melting of the greenland ice is contriving to sea level going up. that will have an impact around the coastlines of the united states. >> it can be disastrous. congress seems to address this issue immediately. if we delay any longer, there might not be enough of the world
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to save. >> to watch all of the winning videos and learn more about our competition, go to c-span.org and click on studentcam. tell us what issues you think congress should consider. post your comments. >> in a few moments, president obama the marks on the affordable care act. in half an hour, a preview of the elections in afghanistan. and edward snowden's revelation on the nsa program. >> house budget committee will markup chairman paul ryan's budget plan tomorrow in a session that will expect -- expected to last late into the evening. coverage begins wednesday at 10:30 a.m. eastern. announcednt obama
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more than 7 million people have signed up for insurance under the new health care law. midnight monday was the deadline for consumers to sign up for the affordable care act to avoid paying a penalty. this is 20 minutes. >> ladies and gentlemen, the president and vice president of the united states. [applause] >> thank you. thank you. seat. have a thank you so much. welcome to the white house. six months ago today a big part of the affordable care act kicked in. healthcaret.gov -- healthcare.gov went live.
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millions of americans had a chance to buy health care and peace of mind that comes with it . last night was the first open enrollment period came to an end. several lost weeks because the websites, 7.1 million americans have signed up for private insurance plans through the marketplaces. [applause]
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the truth is, more folks want to sign up here at anyone stuck in line because of the huge surge of demand can still go back and finish the enrollment. top oflion, that is on more than 3 million young adults who gained insurance under this law i staying on their families plan -- by staying on their family's plan. coveragefordable available to all americans come including those with pre-existing conditions is now .n important goal of this law in the first six months, we have taken a big step forward. just as important, this law is bringing greater security to americans who have coverage.
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because of the affordable care act, 100 million americans have gained free preventive care like mammograms and contraceptive care under the existing plans. [applause] because of this law, nearly a million seniors have saved almost $10 million on the medicine because we have closed a gaping hole in medicare's prescription drug plans. we are closing the doughnut hole will stop -- doughnut hole. [applause] because of this law, a lot of families will not be driven into bankruptcy by a serious illness. affordable care act prevents your insurer from placing dollar limits on the coverage that they provide. these are all benefits that would have been taking place for a lot of families out there. many do not realize that they
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have received these benefits. the bottom line is this -- under americansthe share of is up and the cost is down. that is good for the fiscal future. [applause] that doesn't mean that all the problems in health care have been solved forever. premiums are still rising for families who have insurance whether you get it through your employer or you buy it on your own. that has been true every year for decades. so far, those premiums have risen more slowly than at any time in the past 50 years. despiteso true that many americans remain uncovered in part because governors in politicals for
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reasons have deliberately refuse to expand coverage under this law. we're going to work on that. we will work to get more americans covered with each passing year. it remains true that you also have to change your coverage as you graduate from college are turned 26 are move for switch just likeve a child, you did before the affordable care act was passed, you can go v and easy toe.go enroll when circumstances in your life change6. -- life change. this law has made the health care system a lot better. a lot better. [applause]
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all told, millions of fellow citizens know the economic security of health insurance. they didn't a few years ago. that is something to be proud of. arerdless of your politics your feelings about me or your feelings about this law, that is something that is good for the economy. it is good for the country. there's no good reason to go back. let me give you a sense of what this change has meant for millions of fellow americans. i'll give a few examples. a person from solana beach, california majored to get his family coverage. existing medical conditions meant his was over $30,000. the affordable care act change that. if you have a pre-existing condition like being a cancer
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survivor or suffer from chronic train -- paint them -- paint from a job, you cannot be charged more than anyone else. premiums will fall from over $30,000 to under $9,000. [applause] i know this because he wrote me a letter. offsetings will almost the cost of his daughter's first year in college. in thisig believer legislation. it has removed a lot of complexity and fear from my life. please keep on fighting. that is what he had to say. there is a are tender. -- bartender. -- for years,der
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she went uninsured or underinsured. often getting health care through her parents. in november she bought a plan on the rocket place. in january, in illness sent her to the hospital. because a new plan covered a cat scan, she would not have been otherwise able to afford, her doctors discovered she also had ovarian cancer and gave her a chance to beat it. she wrote me a letter. ae said it is going to be long road to kill this cancer, that i can walk the road knowing that insurance is not an issue. i will not be refused care. she sent a letter that she's free and clear of the disease. until then, i will be fighting just as you have been fighting for my life as a working citizen.
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under new insurance plan, a woman from colorado shared with me what it meant for her. after using my new insurance for the first time, you probably heard my sigh of relief from the white house. i felt like a human being again. i felt like i had value. that is what the affordable care act or obamacare is all about. and alle that all of us of our fellow citizens can count on the security of health care when we get sick. that the work in the dignity of every person is acknowledged and affirmed. the newly insured deserve the dignity. working americans deserve that economic security.
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, the sick, survivors, deserve fair treatment in the health care system. it makes a constant politics around this law befuddling. like every major piece of legislation from social security to medicare, the loss of perfect. we have had to make adjustments along the way, especially the website. it has had its share of problems. we know that. yes come at times it has been contentious and confusing. it has had its share of critics. as per what change looks like in a democracy. change is hard. fixing what is broken is hard. overcoming skepticism and fear
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is hard. the devild prefer they know to the devil they don't. but it is working. critics try to scare people or undermine the law repeal the law . it is hard to understand. i did not get it. why are folks working hard? are they so mad about the idea of folks having health insurance? many of the tall tales that have been told about this law have been debunked. no --are still
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armageddon has not arrived. in the coming years, it will help millions more. i said before i will always work with anyone who is willing to make this law work even better. but the debate over repealing this law is over. [applause] the affordable care act is here to stay. and those who have based their
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entire political agenda on toealing it have to explain the countrywide genie should go back to being uninsured. sean andld explain why his family should go back to more. thousands they have to explain why we should go back when seniors pay more for their prescriptions or woman have to pay more than men for coverage. --k to the days when america americans with pre-existing conditions were out of luck. that is exactly what would happen if we repeal this law. millions of people who now have health insurance would not have it. gotten who have discounts on prescription drugs would have to pay more. young people would not have
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health insurance. in the end, history is not kind. to those who would deny americans basic economic security. nobody remembers well those who stand in the way of america's progress or our people. that is what the affordable care act present. as messy as it has been sometimes it is progress. is making sure we are not the only advanced country on earth who does not make sure everybody has basic health care. [applause] and that is thanks in part to leaders like nancy pelosi and dick durbin and all the members of conduct -- congress who were here today. they -- we could not do it without them and they should be proud of what they have done. [applause]
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and it is also thanks to the often unheralded work of countless americans who fought tirelessly to pass this law. crazyo organize like these past few months to help their fellow citizens just get the information they needed to get covered. that is why we are here today. folkss why 7.1 million have health insurance because people got the word out. make a hard sell. we did not have billions of dollars of commercials like some critics did. was for it --id look for yourself. see if it is good for your
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family. and a whole lot of people decided it was. so i want to thank everybody who worked so hard to make sure that we arrived at this point today. i want to make sure everybody understands in the months and years ahead, i guarantee you there will be additional challenges to implement thing this law. there will be days when the website stumbles. i guarantee it. so press, i want you to someipate, there will be moment when the website is down and i know it will be on all your front pages. it is going to happen. it will not be news. lawe will be parts of the that will still need to be improved. stopf we could start -- refighting old battles the keep is gridlocked then we could make the long working -- law working
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better for everybody. we are excited about the prospect of doing that. we are game to do it. but today should remind us that the goal we set for ourselves, that no american should go without the health care that they need, that no family should be bankrupt because somebody in that family gets sick, because no parent should have to be worried about whether they can afford treatment because they're worried that they do not have to to burden their children, the idea that everybody in this country can get decent health care, that goal is achievable. are on our way. have thel of us courage and the wisdom to keep another,ot against one not to scare each other, but for one another, then we will not just make progress on health
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care. we will make progress in all the other work that remains to create new opportunity for everybody who works for it, and to make sure that this country that we love lives up to its highest ideals. that is what today is about. that is what all the days that come as long as i am president are going to be about. that is what we are going to be working towards. everybody.ery much, god bless you. god bless america. [applause] thank you. ♪ >> the chair would like to ask my distinguished republican
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college if he would take the chair. [applause]
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>> you have to put the question on the resolution. [laughter] >> would you prefer that i do that before you speak on behalf of your own resolution, mr. speaker? >> it is always better to get the resolution passed before the speech. >> without objection, the resolution is passed. [laughter] [applause] >> thank you.
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>> i want to say that it is a great pleasure for me to address you, mr. speaker. and to say that all of you have said and my good friend said has been a very touching thing for me. particularly to be here on this last day of the 103rd congress with so many of my colleagues and you have a chance to say to you, all of you, republicans and democrats what an honor it has been for me to serve with you. and also to all of my colleagues, past and present who have honored me by allowing me to serve with them.
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this institution is a great institution. it is unfortunately not always seen in its full and proper dimensions by our fellow citizens. i think that is a great tragedy because of all the institutions of our public life, it is in the congress and particularly in the house of representatives where this country's judgment and hopes and concerns and ambitions and decisions are made for the future. we have a task i think all of us, those in public life and those who leave it to ensure that the true dimensions of the work that is done here is understood and appreciated. havese other countries president and courts and magistrates but it is this institution which for so many of the people of the world is represented, the congress, the
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place we come together to speak the voice of american democracy. it is that voice that is found to echo and resounding through the world. the american democracy has been a symbol of liberty and freedom for so many hundreds of millions of people. responsibilityal to ensure that our own citizens do not fail to understand the value and importance of this, there house of representatives. capn leaving, i thank you -- and i salute you and i wish you all and those of you who aren't leaving with me and those -- who are living with me and those who will be part of the 104th congress, every success in the future. all who follow in this great responsibility that
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they will have some of the same satisfactions and some of the great opportunities which i have had and for which i will always be deeply grateful. thank you and goodbye. [applause] >> speaker, if i might exercise the prerogative of the chair for just a moment. dearhat is to say to my colleagues on both sides of the mr. speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to wield this gavel at least one time and actually sit in the chair. it was something to behold. [applause]
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but more important, the speaker just spoke with with great insight into this institution, what we do here as a body. i just want to say to all the members on both sides of the thee how much i appreciate camera at her he and -- -- i havee and enjoyed and all those wonderful good things that have happened and yours past year knowledge men from time to time gets overwhelming. ,nd i just want you all to know some of us chose to leave voluntarily, some obviously did not. but that is the way the system works. the more important thing is i guess, those memories that we take away from this body,
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hopefully they will always be cherished ones of those wonderful days we spent as a member of the u.s. congress. thank you, each and every one, and i yield back. to the distinguished speaker. >> thank you. [applause] from 35more highlights years of house for coverage on our facebook page. created by cable companies 35 years ago and that you today by your local cable or satellite rider. >> on the next "washington guests include representative tim griffin from arkansas. budget proposal. we will focus on ukraine with senator ben cardin. the foreigner of relations committee. and abigail jones, a senior writer for "newsweek" who will
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join us to discuss her article on alzheimer's disease and predictions that 60 million americans will have the disease by 2050. is live on journal" c-span every day at 7 a.m. eastern and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. >> up next, a preview of this weekend's presidential elections in afghanistan. the alliance in support of the afghan people posted a panel that included former officials from the obama and george w. bush administrations. this is one hour. rexam happy to be here to discuss this election in
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afghanistan. e-day inoing to be afghanistan. enthusiasm ining the population across the board, not just in one area or another. even in the south and eastern part of the country, much more enthusiasm than fear or trepidation. something that a few weeks ago people were mostly concerned about. e taliban have demonstrated anen ability and willingness to target the election process overall. and attacking soft targets mostly. and the reaction of the afghan people overall and those who express themselves through the media or rallies or gatherings in afghanistan, there are many
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of those these days because of elections. it is one of defiance. which to me is a very positive sign to see the afghan people give a very strong message to the taliban and their backers. you see more hope in what people are saying about the election process. they are looking forward to change, in my opinion. they're looking forward to better governments. they're looking forward to more rule of law, for example, less corruption. andmore unified country they're looking forward to a more unified government and a stronger government that could represent them and that could then deal with challenges that afghanistan is facing. not everything is rosy in afghanistan. this is a country that has had a very troubled history. and a country that is facing many challenges on many fronts. despite the amazing improvements
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basis inee on a daily afghanistan for those of you who know the country. for someone who joined the new government in december of 2001 and was a witness to what we inherited from the taliban until today. the glasse clear that is half-full full. that there has been tremendous change. most of it positive. but as i mentioned, there is still a lot of work to be done and people are looking for a government that can tackle those issues in the future. there is much more optimism in the country today than cynicism. that for the past couple of years have preoccupied many people especially in the west because the focus has been mostly on the relationship between the u.s. and mr. karzai. the focusing has been on one person instead of the country overall, society overall,
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developments, changes, reforms, and so on and so forth. we are listening to the afghan people. this whole campaign and election process has been an occasion of opportunity for the afghan people to express themselves and for the afghan people to come one candidate or another. come out and make demands. come out and challenge them and say what is your plan? these are the problems we're facing. tell us what to do. this is absolutely very healthy. i think the media has played an incredible role in all of this. we are also seeing a generational shift in the sense that more and more young people who have grown up during the past 13 years and are now young men and women looking forward to and at an agetan to vote on one hand. also their participating.
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this whole sense of participating and dividing your welle and expressing you are what we are seeing over the last few weeks. i think elections are going to take place unless something catastrophic or unpredictable happens over the next 72 hours or so. which i hope it is not. to not beon is going without challenges or problems. let me go likely over the challenges facing elections. going to be as big turnout from all indications. the first afghan election in 2004, we saw over 70% participation which is pretty incredible. aere is by all accounts
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momentum building up toward that kind of figure right now of 60% to 70% probable turnout. including many women and the youth participation as well. seeingly, we are also long lines of people after today -- up to today, this moment and across afghanistan, of people to get a voter card. despite when he won or 22 million voter cards floating around in a country with 11 to voters,on eligible there are still long lines of men and women in kabul and other cities who want to have access to a voter card which is an indication of the building up of enthusiasm among the population.
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there is a question of how many people do they represent. overall, it does show a trend. thatpeople are engaged and there are front runners. i am not going to go and actually decipher that because it is very complex. fraud, obviously everyone is anticipating fraud. but no one desires industrial scale fraud
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in afghanistan. i think that what we are looking is an election process that can have credible results acceptable to most afghans and not leading to any type of -- resulting in any type of crisis. there may be some people the satisfied. withently that is the norm elections. there will be some people who are unhappy with the results. for all candidates to at some point come to terms about -- with the results and the anticipation is for the election process and institutions to play their role according to the laws and regulations of the country. the burden of proof and the responsibility lies on the shoulders of the election institutions.
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-- they have a responsibility to make sure that the results of this election are as fraud-free as possible. spend one moment by telling you what in my view would define and constitute a successful election. versus a failed election. that of all i think barring any surprises between now and election day, the level of turnout is going to be very critical. the larger the turnout am a the better it is for elections. the better the afghan security forces plus international forces andcontain the attacks trying to disrupt the election
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process, obviously the better results we will get. the afghan forces have tried and at a very good job so far of repulsing the of taliban attacks. just this morning there was a very interesting piece of news that said the taliban suicide explosivesnated his within a taliban leadership 26 leaders whog were appearing for major attacks. this person was either dissatisfied or something happened. i do not know any details but it does show that on one hand they are planning heavily and on the other hand there is within the taliban some tension and people who want to disagree with what they do. what else can make this election
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successful, there is the issue of fraud is the issue of fraud as a mentioned. the more we can mitigate fraud, the more we can control fraud. credible results. what would make results credible and acceptable to the afghan people and what would make credible results to the international community who is on standby keeping a low profile. that is also going to be very important. at the end of the day i think if these elections can result in better governance, a leadership that is more unified and further unified the country and can deal with the challenges facing the country, including restoring relationships with the national community and the u.s. in particular. signing the bsa and keep
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following up on the promises made at the summit in chicago and tokyo and in bonn. the relationship that afghanistan will have with the international community. i think that these are if we can have a good election, these are the results that we will see over the next year with the new government. the reverse of all of this of course is going to probably result in failure of elections or postponement of elections or delay in the results coming out of elections and probably in a crisis. i do not personally see a conflict entering situation. i do not see civil war erupting. i do see local -- a political crisis in case large
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constituencies of afghans aren't happy with the results of elections. .2 all indications today relatively successful election happening on april 5. moving to a second the 50% nobody gets plus one required by the constitution. and also most horribly and i will and on this note. there would be many attempts made, many backdoor, backroom deals made over post-round one consensus onth a election leadership. meaning that there will be attempts made by the lead candidates to reform the government with national unity act: russian government that ofld strengthen the pillars
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governance in the future. i will stop here and hopefully you'll have questions later. i will turn the floor to mr. hadley. >> good morning. i want to talk about three things. election monitors, i want to talk about what we can hope for out of this electoral process and i am worried about how we are -- how we got to where we are. first, the issue of international election observers. been somebviously recent violence. it has caused some of the international organizations who plan to send lection observers not to do so. there has been suggestions in ise media reports that this a real blow to the credibility of the elections and i think that is a misunderstanding of the situation. it is true that the national
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democratic institute and democracy international have scaled back their observer missions. and that is a blow. andy i was going to provide about 120 of what was expected to be two hundred international observers from five therezations. that said, still will be international observers on the ground. democracy international still has a specialized long-term observers that are in the country and will remain in the country. osceuropean union and the also have observers that will be present. ,he numbers will not be great but that is not unusual. pakistan recently had an election which was widely viewed as successful. it is a country of 180 million.
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there were only i am told 60 international election observers at that election. afghanistan is a country of about 30 million people, proportionately, it will have more international elections -- election observers. but more importantly, the international observers will be working with approximately 15,000 national afghan observers. deployed around the country by two afghan observation groups, the largest one is the free and fair election foundation which 2004 and hasn observed every afghan election since. they currently have 10,000 observers registered. afghan observers have been trained and funded by the international community. they will be the real eyes and
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ears on the ground and they will be sharing the information and their observations with the international observers. and will be part of the foundation for the conclusions that the international observers will separately reach on the elections. in addition, each of the major candidates has their own election observers so this is going to be tens of thousands more. and finally the afghan media has gained significant capacity for recent years as many of you well now. they will be following the elections as they have been following the campaign. the most critical part of the electoral process is the tabulation of the result. the inserting of the vote counts from each of the polling stations into the central computer system. the will take place at
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independent election commission headquarters in kabul and it will be observed by the international technical teams as well as afghan observers. the absence of the international observers or what i should say is a drawdown in the number of international observers that will be present. psychological effect and it will have an impact on the international -- how the international trinity views it. i am not trying to gloss over that fact. going to is it is not make a huge difference. there are enough international observers there to do their job and the real story here is this is an afghan election. being undertaken pursuant to afghan institutions. goingghan observers are to be the first-line of defense in ensuring a good election.
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second, good election. obviously we would all like the process to be as free and fair and without fraud. elections are hard to run. we have been added 200 years in our country and we still generate a fairmont of controversy. we cannot have too high a standard here for days afghan elections. the bottom line is going to be whether the elections process gives a result. representatived segment of the afghan people believes to be credible. part of that will be the electoral process. and how much fraud people feel is there. but the real question is whether this electoral process, flog though it will be, will produce a legitimate outcome. an outcome accepted by the afghan people as legitimate and will produce a government that
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,he afghan people will support for which the afghan security forces will fight and with which hopefully at least some of the taliban will be willing to negotiate. i think for the comments that the ambassador made, there is a pretty good chance that this process will produce that kind of outcome. finally and then i will turn it over to michelle. let's not forget our fertile we have come. a lot of ago there was discussion about the political transition that we are now in the midst of. you are -- may remember all the speculation at that time. there will not be an election because karzai does not want one. he wants to stay in power after 2014. the election law will not be signed. the independent electoral commission will not be fleshed out, will not be ready to operate. the people will not be engaged.
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they will not -- they will not be crippled candidates. a lot of skepticism and whether violence would make the election possible really at all. we can all agree that we are at a place, much better place than most of us would have expected two years ago. and we may actually have a pleasant surprise here sunday and monday. >> thank you. i want to make three quick points before we open it it -- up to questions. just to reinforce what has been said about how we judge the outcome. i come at this from a u.s. policy perspective. what kind of outcome should we itlooking for and i do think has already been said. the key issue is does this election process writ large
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ultimately result in a government that is seen as credib a seen as credible a legitimate in the eyes of the afg.. there may well be some fraud, there may be some violent. we hope not. at the end of the day when all is said and done, do the afghan is ae feel that this credible and legitimate outcome. if the answer is yes, that a number of implications for u.s. policy but theink we should not judge afghan elections by the same standards that we judge our own elections. we have had 200 years of democratic evolution. this is a democracy in its infancy. if this election does produce a credible result it will be the first peaceful handoff of power in afghanistan history. we want to be careful not to rush to judgment ahead of the
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afghan people. it is their judgment to make whether the ultimate outcome is legitimate and credible. i do not think we want to be second-guessing that issue at every step along the way. i think it is very important to out. theprocess play other thing that is clear is u.s. officials from a western from many isaf countries have had multiple discussions with all of the candidates. i think they have had a very clear message. there are a lot of stakes involved here. election outcome is legitimate and credible. afghanistan can expect the international community to lensesy follow up on its of its continued assistance and
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that assistance is critical to the ultimate success of the next afghan government. contrast, there is rampant fraud. there is a failure to negotiate etc.epresentative outcome, you could see the political report in the united states and other countries for continuing to provide assistance to afghanistan. you can see that support plummet. there are s that would put whatever government ultimately in a crisis situation and fighting for its arrival. and so i think we have been very clear about the stakes involved. i think all of the candidates understand that and hopefully, theirill influence choices and how they approach this contest.
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theecond key point is that results of this election will post-karzai time of u.s.-afghan relations. it will be a very important turning of the page. it will be the start of a new relationship. one where i hope we can get onend focusing so much on personality and the challenging aspects of that personality. to a relationship that is based on a number of profoundly shared strategic interests, strategic objectives and so forth. i think if we do get a legitimate outcome, there will be a lot of -- there will be a to note opportunity
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start fresh because we obviously have a lot of engagement and history with afghanistan but in the chapter that i think we can rejuvenate the relationship in some very positive ways. lastly i want to say word about the potential impact on the post-2014 military posture. been --ll know, we have the u.s. has negotiated with afghanistan the terms of bilateral security agreement that would allow for u.s. and to stay beyond 2014 to assist and advise and train the afghan forces and to counterterrorism operations. this is very important as a foundation for afghanistan's up kerry and stability going forward. i think if the elections go off
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successfully, i think the likelihood is we would find ourselves in the second route. we could see a new government coming in in the summer perhaps. maybe as late as the fall. all of the candidates have pledged that they are interested. sign a bsa.to the relationship with the u.s. is very important to afghanistan's future. i think we could see that moving forward but my main point here is that no matter the time delay, we have to make our decisions about our future security investment in afghanistan. according to our strategic interests. the timelines associated with our planning or our logistics. it may will be harder and more thenvenient to reshape
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a 2014two 24 at -- posture. the more and more delays, it will certainly be more difficult. that does not mean that we should not do it. even though it is incredibly difficult. we have a stake in the stability of afghanistan and the stability of this region. and while the afghans have -- should be greatly applied for having stepped up to be in charge of security, they still need our help in terms of training and equipping and advising. and to support any government that is legitimate and credible that rises from this process.
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let me stop there. >> let me follow up on that issue. saying thator was the u.s. has played a little profile. you haveecause confidence that whoever comes next will sign the bsa? >> my reading is that the u.s. has not wanted to be a party to the elections in the sense of skewing the results in any way or putting his thumb on the scales. they want to make it very clear that this is the choice of the afghan people and as long as there is a legitimate, credible outcome, the u.s. will be supportive of that afghan government. that is as it should be. [indiscernible] only in terms of what is perceived. is there going to be a perception issue or is there some threshold that officials
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will be looking to? >> again, i cannot speak for the administration but my own view is that certainly the first metric is how is the outcome viewed by a broad based representative sampling of afghan society and is seen as credible and legitimate? it may take some degree of negotiations to get to something that looks like a national unity government. i think that is the first and most important thing. think theviously i u.s. will also look at issues like the degree of fraud. like the degree of violence. the degree of effort friday and so forth. the number one and most heavily weighted metric in my view should be how does -- how do the afghan people see this election and outcome? >> am i picking up that you think you might be very adds
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even go to a funeral but haven't between the two top vote getters? you have a judgment as to which will produce a more credible government. a true run off a negotiated settlement of that. not obviously for us to decide. effortas been a real among the 11 candidates. over the last year. to try to develop a common program for post-election afghanistan to which many, if not all the candidates are the least rhetorically committed to providing foundation for a kind of national unity government coming out of the election. whether it goes one round or two rounds, i think that is a positive indication of what they think the afghan people want.
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from an american standpoint, that would be a very good out -- outcome. whether it emerges after the first round or after the second round but an outcome where the candidates accept the results of the election. that the broad segments of all elements of afghan society seem to accept ae outcome and it leads to national unity government committed to a common program. that is a pretty good outcome. >> a delicate dropped out saying it would not be a fair second round. -- it settledle on karzai but it was not any kind of resolution or agreement
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that this was a credible outcome. >> i will make a comment over to the two of you. i do not see that likely. what you may see after the first round if there are two contenders is they may decide to form a unity government right there. for aviate the need second round. not because one of the candidates has taken their marbles and gone home but because they have agreed on a common program for the country. that is one of the things people are talking about. that is for the candidates and the afghan people to decide. >> i just want to say that first absolutely crucial to have elections take place and to have the first round. that theo, i believe example of 2009 is not going to that theed. i think
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likeliest scenario is for the two top contenders in the second round to try to come up with a formula that is acceptable. not only to those two camps but also could maybe incorporate other contenders who have lost to the extent it is possible. trying to come up with the government of national unity in afghanistan is a complex situation given the social and status of the country. therefore, it would require more than just two contenders in my withon, trying to come up the national unity government. it might involve others as well. a lot of it will take political tact and foresight and come upk to be able to
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with such a solution and the afghan people, after having voted in the first round would probably support such a scenario. emerging. >> i have nothing to add. is there any danger that we would end up with a mishmash of government under no clear leadership? ofthe top two will have sort a mandate. againa question of representing afghanistan's diversity. appealing to all stakeholders. but not in a way that we have seen, not in the fashion we have seen over the last 13 years bonn conference
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in 2001, certain positions have been allocated to certain strongmen. think this time around you will see more professionalism, a different set of criteria forming a new government. thanks for being here today. we are talking about afghanistan being on the cusp of a political transition. at the same time there is a lot of skepticism about whether it will be up true political transition and whether karzai will retain some degree of power after the election. especially given his ability to control state resources during the election. the campaign period and the iac and ecc. i want to ask how confident you are that karzai will actually -- in anr over a non- authentic way or this is a real possibility that he will
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continue especially if there is [indiscernible] whether he will continue to wield power in a meaningful way. >> please jump in whenever you want. is -- this is a real concern. it is a valid point on the mind of all afghans as to what extent is mr. karzai going to try to influence the outcome of elections and whether he has a preference which to some extent is now visible. he may have a preference in one of the candidates. to what extent is he going to use his position in the government institutions to boost and bolster that particular team. i do not have an answer for you because we have to wait until elections take place and we see the results and how this is
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going to unfold. afghans, whonds of want their vote to count on that day, it would be very disrespectful i think to every afghan citizen if they feel that their vote did not have the weight it is supposed to have. acutely concerned about his legacy and about his place in history, that he will refrain from manipulating the elections. as i said, a certain level of manipulation is expected. we are just talking about the level of manipulation that is going to be difficult to swallow. and for afghans especially. and so in that case, i think that he will damage his own standing with the afghan people and it will not help the process
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and it will not help anyone. it will probably lead to some kind of crisis. >> if that manipulation was on a grand scale to the point of -- outcomee outcome, of the election and if that were to become known, i think that onld have a serious impact the ability to muster the political support for continued assistance to afghanistan long-term. the stakes are very high. and pursuing a strategy like that would really be playing with fire in terms of the risk that you would actually undermine long-term international support. >> i also think -- let's look where we are. his due.him many people thought he would not step down. that he would not respect the constitution. he would find some way to hold onto power.
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that has not happened. many people thought he would try to ensure the election process was chaotic so he could -- people would turn to him and ask him. try people thought he would to add 19 his successor. maybe even a family member. that is also not happening. explicitlys not endorsed any candidate. we will see. he has performed at her than a lot of people feared and understande will that his best legacy is to say firste presided over the peaceful transition of power through elections in afghanistan's history and that will cause him to stay away from any manipulation of the process. >> thank you.
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on onyour sense based ca on at oid candidatleading that there's a d chance that relatively -- a relatively moderate person could end up bleeding afghanistan as the next leader? there were many fears early on of warlords and radicals competing. --you feel like this is these are fairly moderate folks who are going to lead? think if, the apparent front-runners, they could all be seen as not only moderates but people who understand that to govern effectively and legitimately, they will have to whatever the equivalent reaching across the aisle among reaching across many miles. they'll have to bring in supporters from other camps. negotiatedis not a
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national unity government between two candidates. even if it is one clear winner to really be credible and legitimate. their cabinet is going to have to be highly inclusive and representative to be able to govern effectively and in the eyes of the afghan people. i think all three of the top contenders understand that as a fundamental principle. top three, we all know them well. we have all worked with them well. i would be comfortable with any of them. mentioned that we are seeing a new chapter in u.s.-afghan relations. i was wondering if you could expound on what you think the u.s. policy should be going forward. let's say that the election goes well. that there is a new government down the road and the bsa is
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signed. how should the u.s. move forward with its policy and how could it improve relations? with afghanistan because they are at a low right now. toi do think that we need root our policy in our strategic interests as i said which is ensuring that afghanistan does not slide back into civil war and does not once again become a safe haven for terrorism and so forth. ensuring that afghanistan does become unstable itself and destabilize the region and so forth. ensuring that the tremendous investment and sacrifice we have made and the progress that we have seen as a result of that is not just thrown away. forward theg relationship is going to change because the nature of our mission in afghanistan has
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already changed and we are already, the u.s. and nato are out of the combat role. that happened last year. andre stepping back into advise and assist role in terms of the security realm. the afghan forces have been in the lead and will continue to be in the lead. they have done a very good job being in the lead and it will only get that are as time progresses but they do need our help in advising them and continuing to build specialized capabilities, continuing to equip and train them and so forth. they need several years of that to be truly independent over time. so i think we want to stay the course in my view. also, that should include our economic assistance. both are coming down from the peak of the war period.
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continuing with the hummus as we have made in tokyo, and before, ,hat is important to give a new credible legitimate government the chance at success. a chance at of developing the economy, the society, their own natural resources to the point they can be even more independent in the future. view.t's my own i think we are moving towards a more normal relations, where it's got to be based on respect for the sovereignty of afghanistan, for and free choices of the government and so forth. yes, we always try to influence country's choices, but i don't think we should be meddling
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inside