roles, we count will be think is long-term care and we collect $200 billion or something like that -- none of this is in the number. this brings me to my main point. i will say this as respectfully as i can. while this is a medicaid issue, none of this is in that number, none of it. to my mainngs me point. more of an issue for families in this situation. babyve lots of aging boomers. i was in charge of the medicaid budget, so i worry about medicaid. but i worry about the people facing economic insecurity as a result of this issue.

as a percentage of total medicaid spending we're spending less on long-term care than we past, not more. certainly i think governors are innovating to try to get a grasp on the amount of spending we basis, a per person because when you see a lot of people coming that's the one have is how much you're spending on a per person .asis so relative to the number of people who need long-term care, tore will be fewer dollars go around. and that's important because it real us focus on the is thatthe real problem this is an issue of economic insecurity for american families. mechanismhe right that with pay for that is the real solution. almost any american can be devastate bid this need. absent a requirement that we all share risk for this type of

event, here's what you're up against when you're looking for solutions. you have to use government fromy to create fearly scratch a market for public or private insurance that has value most americans. and you have to persuade them to it. and you have to persuade your act twaries that you're going to buy it. them to that's all necessary if you're going to do this in the context insurance.y the work we've done for the past seven years suggests that it's this act to get around you the aerial problem, but i remain hopeful. and i don't think this means that significant reform of the private market wouldn't help a lot of people, because i think it would. there is output from our modeling that suggests you could provide more security to a lot of people under low cost options. but what our research shows and i could be wrong, i've been so that theree, is aren't the people -- the people that would be helped people who not the

spend down medicaid. so if you want a shift from a safety net system to an haven't yetstem, i found a way to do that in a voluntary approach. but i look forward to working with much smarter people that are under taking this with the great hope that there are and i want to thank you all so much for taking up this issue. i am more hopeful today than i have been in a while. so thank you. >> thank you very much. first i'd like the thank the bipartisan policy center and the for inviting me to participate on this panel, i really appreciate it. begin by making a few observations to frame the discussion. first, americans are ill prepare forward the financial and thences of aging, risk of disability and meeting

long-term services. growing liabilities associated with long-term services and supports may crowd other policy initiatives. second, the lack of financial preparation for possible future functional impairments can force compromise their lifestyle if they become disabled. the expected cost of long-term and support would account for about 31% of the net age 65 toouseholds 74. most americans cannot be maintain consumption and save for these expected costs. private market for long-term care insurance has an important role to play in helping americans absorb the risk of needing long-term care. itever, the data suggests has played too small a role. achieved.t is under currently there are about 7 to 8 million americans with private insurance. roughly a quarter million people a year are buying policies with

the growing number buying combination products, which is life and long-term care. than 20e are fewer companies selling policies and most importantly there's a shrinking percentage of the class that is buying policies. yet, about one in six people age of 5 -- 65 with incomes greater than $20,000 have purchased a policy. there are both demand and supply unders that result in long-termn private insurance. i'll discuss those in a minute. want to talk about something that's central to addressing the challenge. long-term care is an insurable risk. insurance is the most efficient and reasonable way to protect against the risk. saving money to pay for premiums, whether private or public premiums, is sensible. saving to pay for future long-term care expenses less so.

it makes as much sense to save for long-term care expenses as a potentialave for car accident or a fire in your home. wee never do that. would always rely on insurance. so to ask middle class americans to save for long-term care expenses and posit that as a not practical and not a serious policy option. there are a number of challenges expanding the private long-term care insurance market which have resulted in too little insurance. in our discussion we can talk about ways to address these. side, first, consumers tend to miss perceive their own risk of needing care, the cost oftimate services, they don't understand the degree to which existing or do not offer coverage for long-term care. to rely ony prefer medicaid financed care. honestly, at the end of the day, you don't perceive there's a problem, why would you do anything to try and solve it?

second, decision making around private long-term care insurance can be complicated. people have difficulty considering the future choices,ons of today's especially when they are uncertain and frankly unpleasant. considering current products, consumers need to make policye decisions about configuration parameters. so confusion as well as the cost have contributed to relatively low numbers of insured individuals. consumers are often mistrustful of insurers and wary decisions that are very costly to reverse. on the supply side there are of issues.er first, the knowledge and sellingnding makes costs high in the individual market, which still accounts for sales.an 60% of second, insurers face unpredictable and uncontrollable that affect the pricing of policies, like cost increases in

rates,s, interest mortality, disability and so on. these risks are hard to scrap because they -- hard to ved because they are population.s the insurers have dealt with this by products and charging higher premiums. cumbersomeficult and regulatory environment has made the product more costly than it need be. do not know whether they'll be able to obtain rate assumptionsicing are not met. this keeps some out of the out companiesves who cannot earn adequate returns on their investments. seen an exodus of companies from the market, even as a growing number of people benefiting from their policies. annual claims incurred are now $8 billion, and the vast majority of people file claims payments.nce so a key question we need to

take tos, what would it significantly move the needle so that a majority of americans consider or be insure forward long-term care? current strategies have not well, in assuring broad consumer appeal. withoutense is that expanded public sector support andgned to spur demand supply, will not be able to protect the majority of middle class americans. we need to think through, and i hope we will over the next eight andhs, new models of public private mechanisms to maximize the number of insured americans. this means thinking beyond current partnership products and exploring more expansive views sharedic and private insurance models. thanks. [applause] everyone,ternoon, it's a pleasure to be here. guess i represent the insurance side of the argument

and i do want to first start off by saying i've spent a lot of time in washington working with the aisle and i can't think of a better group than senator daschle, senator thompson andor dr. rivlin who can bridge that bipartisan gap. think ultimately no, there's no way that the private insurance sector can cover everybody. there are 115 million people and 75,the ages of 40 that's the prime market. only 7.5 million people today have coverage, so there's a huge gap. of thatto get all financed and how do you improve of care.ery clearly with the entitlement programs particularly medicaid medicare under significant issues today, and that's before -- the oldest baby boomer is 68 this year, so that's before those 78 million people get to the age generally around 80

where the significant spike in need for this coverage. data base, we're the number one insurer in the we insure 1.8 billion people. thing you know the insurance industry generally, and you may all have your own in paying claims, but what's interesting about people to have long-term care h.h.s. just did a people whoe 97% of have long-term care insurance and have made a claim have been satisfied where how they were treated. said, theres have is not the ability of most people to afford coverage, although i think there's an opportunity for this group as well as the private and public sectors working together to come lower costs, it doesn't cadillac policy that covers 500,000 of care.

most people only about 16% actually need more than 100,000 of care. so there's a lot of innovation bring. there's been some comments, to aboutou some statistics the sight for care, when genworth started in 1974, the first year we issue a policy, so policiesago, all the were nursing home only. today 70% of care is provided in home. and the balance would be in assisted living and in nursing homes. do, we just published our care, soy on cost of we have around 400msa's around tellnited states, we can you how much i costs for inhome care, about 19 or $20 an hour, average living on 42,000 and nursing homes 87,600 extent that there is an ability -- right now medicaid primarily provides coverage, you have to be in an institutional setting.

so there is opportunity to the you can move more people into the home and people with i% preferring inhome care think there's an opportunity there. also inflation is a big issue. inflation last five years has gone up 4.3% per year, and it's the same for assisted living. inhome care is only growing a over 1%. so again, and you need to think if younflation, because picture the oldest baby boomer, needing care 15 years from now, but if you look project 25 years from today when the bulk of the baby boomers will be of the age need care, at the current rate of inflation for assistedome care, and living what today cost 87,600 to $200,000 ae year. on average people need three years of coverage. again, beyond the means of most americans.

coming back to the public-private solutions, i think there was a lot of opportunity there to come up with insurance that's both public and private. sector needste more innovative products, lower cost products. but there is certainly a role for public insurance and public financing and i'm looking forward to working with the the loaders and other staff to lay out at least the multiple opportunities and options, different solutions, be somefully there can consensus here and in the states for picking some set of those to ball forward.the with that i'll turn it other to speaker. [applause] >> well, i'm very pleased to be here today and i think it's interesting that in this medicaid has gone last, since in long-term care medicaid is certainly first and really been the work horse of our long-term care services

system over years. in fact one could say it's actually been the developer of have today at both nursing home care, but especially home and community services. it's really nice to not have to be talking about expansion states versus nonexpansion states, but to be talking about something that's going on in all which is really been on theforefront of most of states' work because they know that the dollars they're their disability population and elderly population are the majority of in their budgets. so this is a critical issue. also very critical issue when we look at the future of thedistribution population and the fact that we don't say very much, and we're society in which many people are going to knee long-term services and supports theare not going to have resources and won't be able to live in some of the after fleubl

communities where there are villages like the one i live in that can take care of you. so we really need to look at what are our income guidelines that we're going to use. a programdicaid is that has very severe income eligibility levels, you have to meet severe disability tests to qualify on the basis of you're elderlyif the income level and the resource from assets are very limited. good estate planners have managed to transfer everything, we've never seen in all of our that there's a substantial enough number of people who have transferred assets. the reala part of problem, and in fact congress effectively gone future lookbacks. so i think what we are looking at is what lessons can it give how can we build on the innovation that states have put forward, especially in light of olmstead decision that requires more care in the community for those who elect to

be there. think with a we really see with the states is that they're learning more and more about not to provide long-term services and support, but especially on how to integrate those with acute care services and with the medical needs of the population. about two things as if the same person doesn't needs.th sets of so one of your challenges going forward is not only to look at androle that medicaid plays how to integrate those services, but to bring what's not on this the medicare program, into the middle and to really talk about how medicare can more effectively provide for some of the disability and elderly that depend on me care for their primary care and then need for integration of their acute and long-term care services through program.aid so i would put medicare firmly back on the table as one of the should look at in that intersection between medicare and medicaid as a

one.cal but i'd also say that the affordable care act has a lot in it for innovation and long-term care service and of the statesany have really embraced taking on and reduceays to try nursing home readmissions and back and forth to the hospital and look at better ways to provide behavioral health services. the thing no one ever really talks about in our managed care perhaps, we so carve out behavioral health services if you're going integratedg to more care coordination. we really need to look at how to provide for the behavioral services, we also need to think about the fact that as we face a population that may have and greater cognitive impairments unless we suddenly alzheimer'sution to that we're going to need to think about different kind of settings and different strategies for those settings. and the other piece that we have

housing,bout is because housing is the big impediment to being able to keep community.he so going forward i would be take back through to go everything medicaid does and doesn't do well or does do well, really say we need to look at these new options to beingt how care is delivered in the community. we need to look at integration insurance,vate public insurance, medicare and medicaid, so that the whole that people need to support them is integrated. looklly think we need to at a better care management, case management strategy within helpedicare program to manage people through the system, even if they're medicaid.ng with and as the long-term care commission put forth, we really a need some form of standardized assessment for who needs long-term care, how they we can matchat resources to people's needs.

have toe end i think we look through, and i know you will, what's medicaid doing how does it fit into the future, what are the limits of a tested program, how does that fit with medicare, how does that fit with private insurance. unfortunately, as when i worked on the pepper commission, it all comes down to who pays and how to finance and it how to deliver those services. so you have a broad challenge i know that you'll contribute a new level of understanding to this debate we really take care of the full range of health and needs that our population faces. thank you. [applause] >> all right. did a quick q and a here butwe'll start with ann, anyone else feel free to jump in. the big question is the one that

youall raised but none of answered which is how do you build a viable sustainable market here. one hasn't emerged yet. is this primarily a public policy challenge? is it about convincing peel to market and then preep annuals will go down on their own? there's a lot of approaches what are the key obstacles that we need to clear get that going? >> there's a lot of obstacles. a matter,ink it certainly education is an issue, itself will not get us to where we need to do. this is definitely a public solutionoblem and the that's required is, in my view, just a revamp of the entire private insurance marketplace. has written a paper on this, so i'm going to let him talk a little about his ideas, i think that's the level at which we have to intervene in order for this to actually work.

>> thanks, ann. ( laughter ). >> i do want to say one other thing. i do think that it's my view privatere's no insurance solution that will work without a public piece to it. we can do,has to be, even the awesome reforms that proposed, we can do those, but in order to get level we needthe it to be, there has to be a public piece to this. >> i'm going to learn from ann. tom is sitting on my left. no. a couplehere are things of i don't want to understill what ann said. aboutmy remarks talking the fact that we've got major demand side issues. lack of understanding and so on. actually needs to be a very targeted and focused effort americans know what stand before them. what are the risks that they they can begin to take certain actions. that being said, the critical

course is cost. that people cannot afford to pay for this. and there are a number of things be done to lower the cost of products. one of the biggest has to do with distribution. is this product distributed. if, for example, this was made panelf a standard benefit when you go to work, you sign up for health care and then there's long-term care sitting right there, or you change the choice peoplecture, so that don't opt into purchase them but they opt out. it's part of their package, say otherwise. one thing. regulatory reform. a lot of the insurance companies into this market believing that they were providing a product that is guarantee renewable. and they have found often that it'sve been treated as if noncancelable. meaning that they can never assumptionss when go sour for reasons outside of their control. i think that we really need to look at that, the cost

associated with trying to file accepted in 50 different insurance departments. it's a very costly proposition for companies. tom can talk more about that. other, i agree completely with what ann is saying. the industry has been unwilling to assume all of the risk, and primarily if you'll note over the last 10 years the number of lifetime coverage policies, are is verylicies, small. companies are no longer selling them. up the door for some sort of potential catastrophic protection on the public side that may then help people what their exposure is on the less catastrophic part. tom? >> what i would add to what ann and mark have said and not repeat, i do think that consumer awareness and education is critically important. a lot of surveys at genworth. but most americans think either

medicare or the a.c.a. covers doesn't. care, and it americans that don't have a policy, therefore then are their own safety net, and what they've saved. of studies out on what people have saved in 401-k saw, and ithe last i think this is in the white paper bbc just published, the average 65-year-old has $70,000, couple probe has $70,000 set aside and i just said today furthering hope costs are 87,600, the average stay a years. so to the extent that they need that 70,000 to live off of, if disabled, it a big issue. i do think it's been raised, management. and this bringing together, i think it was your point, medicare,ogether medicaid and how we manage

diseases. on 40 years and i think this will continue to be the case going forward that 51% claims are for cognitive issues. led by alzheimer's. theyet only about, i think research on cognitive disorder like alzheimer's is something like one tenth of the research spent on cancer. it's probably appropriate that it be less. but one tenth, probably doesn't make sense. sixth largest the cause of death. i think that we've gone from about 100 insurers in the a dozen.ector to about the reason for that is because it's been a very difficult and challenging regulatory environment. and i think there needs to be flexibility. but ultimately if insurance andanies, whether private, then even the public sector, are going to play a role, you have

legislation, so these proposals hopefully will help on that. regulatory system wherever it comes out that is it's somewhat predictable. and it's reasonable and it's a process you go through in terms of how you price and should be.emium >> i'm hearing two side of this. am hearing let's develop provide long-term care insurance market, from one side. and from medicaid you hear let's integrate long-term care into broadercare into systems so that we can take care of the whole person. and i think that's a real figure out as you go forward. do you really want a separate private insurance market or is it somehow necessary to merge that with what we do on the andth care side and to try go to more of a managed care even ifted care concept there are separate contracts out with different providers.

think, i'm so glad you said that, i'med in you made the remark, because i couldn't degree more. i think what we can do though, i itnk there is a way to do and what we can do, because long-term care is really this hybrid of disability insurance on the one hand and health care and health insurance other hand. when we look at medicare data at avalere, we see that somebody with five or more conditions, we take a person that has five or more compare them who ave five conditions and long-term need. they cost twice as much. thatl of the things medicare is doing around bundled payments, managed care, improving the contracts, is critical. and i like to say to providers,

if you're not focused on the population,re you're never going to get there. eventually you'll kull out out hanging fruit, but you won't get there. at the same time we are woefully under financed in long-term care, there's a tremendous lack of money to pay for the more basic services that the health care system is never going to pay for. empower consumers with more resources and then build a health care delivery case management and more coordinated services in work with them and to them. >> i actually want to reenforce that. important point is when i talk about thinking new ways about this, you could imagine health plans, assuming part of the risk for what been carvedy has out as long-term care. we do have some historic examples, we can learn a lot about how that care is managed, respect towith substitution between more costly

services versus supportive services. so i'm in agreement with that. >> let me jump in on that point, because right now you have such a gap between people who can all the way down to medicaid and people who can afor premium.ive is it feasible to just think that we can bring the cost all the way down to close that gap? or is that something where some sort of different public program or held plans or some other in that middleme area? >> i think what i said, let's talk about today, the average nursing home care around the country is high or low depending $87,600.ly is that's been growing the last five years at over 4%. so it's hard to imagine 25 or 30 won havem now that you a nursing home cost of double or today, that's is just the way inflation works.

42,000, soving is growing over 4%. inhome care, depend where you but it's somewhere between 19 or $20 per hour. of the, on the previous panel talked about a is now beingare given by baby boomers to their parents. those baby boomers, though, are 65, 10,000 a day for the next 20 years plus. overhe number of 65 and will double in the next 40 years. the number of 85 and over, and real scary part, is going to triple the next 40 years. and because those baby boomers who are giving the care today shift to the millennials or whom ever and there around as ratio alsom, so that is going to be significant. family and friend are providing 450 billion of value,

you somehow want to keep that in the system. but you also don't want to put on them because while they are taking care of someone who is disabled they a job and someve have kids. that we can do disease management, managed we've done, you know, i started in the insurance and it was the 70's foren department it in fee service -- indemnite fee for service. it still costs more today than and that's going to go up. so i think we need today do as much as we can on trying to bring the cost down. we've got to be realistic though, pretty hard in this costs.o actually reduce it's more about controlling the growth. and on that, then when you look there's 115 million americans between 40 and 75,

who have saved something in 401-k plans, because there's no defined any more, onons average it's $07,000. so whether it the public sector it's a hugete, expense, and i've said over the years with the senators and senators and others on forces,titlement task calculateon how you interest rates, the unfunded entitlements today are 40 to know theon and we public debt is 17. so if you add those together, let call it at least $60 trillion that's already owed. it's a pay as you go system. so we have less than three every retiree. so whatever you do on bringing the cost down, this is a huge financial burden and again the private sector no way is it going to be able to cover anybody. going to do some medical underwriting to improve its pool.

have toic sector will be like it is today. today's medicaid the provider of last resort. but my view is there's 115 million people between 40 and 75 and there's 7.5 million that have policies today. it's 10 million or 20 million or 50 million, it takes a burden off of the and i hope programs as part of all this, recognizing that the private system or the its own can'ton solve it, that we were able to together, the private, public sector, washington, so we can do a better job than we have to date in financing what is i the biggest unfunded liabilities that we have in society. i think we forward have to look at the nursing home piece versus the home and community based services. basically we have not added a nursingeople to the home population over my career.

between 1.5 and 2 million. where the real growth is and is inthe real demand is home and community based services and in all the with that.that goes i do know from public opinion polling that we've done that most people when they hear the words long-term care or long-term care insurance think it's only for being in a nursing home. so i think you have a real public perception of what it is it is selling, and what you're marketing to people. and i think you need to think more a strategy that keeps in the community and doesn't get hung up on trying to figure out nursing homee care. point.more >> i think there's a consensus is that while everyone acknowledges that both sectors are going to need to play a the underpinning of that role should be insurance based versus welfare based.

extent possible we want to take a series of actions to move the needle so that at least more people, again, without prejudicing with respect to private insurance or public insurance and what pieces of risk, an insurance based approach. >> all right. in the audience? poplynn ancaroline attorney and physician, i came here to talk about the tie services,pport community based support services and medical expenses. don't provide the support services the medical expenses go up. said.hat you but mainly i need to tell you about my experience with long-term care insurance. left the federal government i was in my 60's. had hypertension, i went to talk to a broker.

that i was going to have to pay thousands of dollars a that could go up. i would have to pay every year, happened anding for a while i couldn't pay, i lost everything. lost 20 or 30 years at thousands of dollars a year. saved, nothing accumulated, nothing was left. this has nothing to do with denial. this is not a business model that most people will find very appealing. only had to pay for 25 or 30 years. some people pay for 50 years and and their insurance insurance companies, at least until recently, counted on that thisyou would pay all money and get nothing in return. think i should take that one. ( laughter ) you know, the traditional policy was what you said, it was designed to

andect premiums annually then pay a claim if someone was going to be disabled. different than homeowners or auto insurance. you pay with the hope you're not going to need to make a claim, but because part of the notncing mechanism is everybody is going to have to make a claim. don't want to defend that, the policies the way they are today. think there are people, as i said, 97% of the people have atually made a claim, long-term care policy are satisfied. but it may very well be that a care policy wasn't right for you, isn't right for everybody. innovativeew products that, life products, it does have a cash value, so you can take away at the end if you claim.ade a the value of the cash value. claim, part of a it can be used to pay the claims. so i agree with you that going

i think there are a lot of opportunities for new and different kinds of policies that negatives some of the that you say on what has been a policy.ditional if i were question) paying to cover this year it have been -- more. >> i hear all of you talk a outle about voluntary opt versus mandate. is it going to come down to if we're going to have something work for economically private insurance and medicaid, does it come down to that? as adly, where does cash benefit play into this and how psychologyhange the

of how people would plan for this personally? and third, if you were the king and queen of the world and a decision had to be made by 5:00 today whash would you these congress and president of the united states to do about this problem, because we have been talking about it longer than i've been alive, which is a little bit too long according to some. so how would you come out on it you had to make a decision today? to get back to, the remarks i was making earlier in response to what diane said, that cash is actually most likely the only way that we actually, if we're going to create a risk product, create an way that pool that the long-term care, for lack of a better word, behaves for people theirir lives and in homes and a way to support the services that they need in the integrate, theo last thing i think we need to do is create an insurance system

that pace for services that then have to be integrated with all the other services. i think families are the integrative service delivery system, so let put the power in their hand and let them more supportot from the health care system. then honestly, i made my views known i think fairly publicly now, but if you put a gun to my asked me opt out mandatory, i would say it's some piece of this. this has to be mandatory. it's just too challenging to get tough enrollment in order create enough of a risk pool to -- so the challenge is you have to premiums down in order to get people enrolled. it's this vicious circle, in get premiums down you have to get people enrolled. enrolling people, that gets the premiums automatically down. i haven't been able to figure another way to do it mathematically.

me in thanking an panel.nt, outstanding [applause] that does bring to its conclusion our presentations and discussion today. but i think this last panel especially introduced the challenges before us. the great excitement we have in large part in turning to you, many of whom have been involved this a long time. we do reach out for your ideas, your thoughts, we look forward to continued engagement, read the all of you to white paper, which is the foundation for which we will put together specific the comingions over months. again, thank both the former thankand this panel and all of you for being with us today. thank you very much. appreciate it again.

is founded ontion law and not on the whim of man. we are not ruled by kings or emperors and there is no divine right of presidents. an ordinaryis citizen, vested with the power to govern and sworn to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states. inherit in that oath is a withinibility to live its laws with no higher or lower expectations than the average citizen. just like ms. simms. president appeared at the deposition of ms. jones and secondly before the federal aand jury, he was sworn to second oath. to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth god.lp you this according to witnesses, to the judiciary committee before the special council, he did not do. for this, i will vote to impeach the president of the united states. ask that this case be considered by the united states

that other body of congress uphold their responsibility to render justice charges.most serious would the president, i say, sir, you have done great damage to this nation over this year. and while your defenders are contending that further proceedings would only pro tract and exacerbate ie damage to this country, say that you have the power to terminate that damage and heal the wounds that you have created. post.ir, may resign your shouting no). order.e will be in

>> and -- >> you resign. >> the house will be in order. only challenge you willingfashion if i am to heed my own words. to my colleagues, my friends and especially my wife and family, i have hurt you all deeply and i beg your forgiveness. i was prepared to lead our narrow majority as speaker and i do ave i had it in me to fine job. job. cannot do that or be the kind of leader that i would like to be under current circumstances. so i must set the example that i hope president clinton will follow. i will not stand for speaker of the house on january 6. at rather i shall remain as back bencher in this congress that i so dearly love for

approximately six months into the 106th congress whereupon i my seat and ask the governor to call a special election to take my place. for themy constituents opportunity to serve them, i hope they will not think badly leaving. i thank alan martin, my chief of staff, and all of my staff for on mytireless work behalf. and i thank my wife, most me.cially, for standing by i love her very much. .od bless america [applause] >> find more highlight from 5 years of house floor coverage on facebook page. c-span, created by america's companies 35 years ago and brought to you today as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. c-span isthis month, pleased to present our winning entries in this year's student documentary competition. student cam is c-span's annual

competition that en currents high school students to think critically about issues. students were asked to create their video based on the question, what's the most u.s.tant issue the congress should consider in 2014? martinat students connor and angelo tydings lynch from eastern middle school in silver spring entered their second congressunteer asking to fix the national debt. >> our national debt is a major weakness of the u.s. economy. of as never been as big problem in the past as countries have always been willing to buy u.s. debt. however, now that the u.s. has accumulated more and more debt, other countries may discontinue buying u.s. treasury bonds. >> the other reason it important is if it got too big at some point, no one know what is that point would be, you could have a gotation where our lenders nervous about our ability to repay, and then they stop lending us money. that would create a cascading

problems. and put into a debt crisis like countriesn some other like greece go through. >> in the current environment my weak demand isn't the greater concern? backk at consumers pulling on their spending because of high debt burdens, under water mortgages, businesses holding off on investing because of weak consumer demand. >> dear congress, the debt is country's greatest concern. the u.s. cope with its debt?cumulating began directly after the revolutionary war. america had borrowed mope from the neitherrer land to pay for the cost of the war.

the the next 10 years, with national debt at 43 million modern dollars, the u.s. created tax organization firms such as the department of finance, and department.asury the u.s. treasury department was created with the ability to torow money and was created keep the debt at a manageable level. the department of finance was created to manage different costs to americans to make sure high assts weren't so to raise the debt. the next milestone in the history of government debt came the 1861 civil war, which cost over $5 billion to fund. in 1862,top the debt the government passed a legal tender act which allowed the one, print paper money to help pay off the debt, $500 millionell worth of treasury bonds. in the early 20th century for world war i by raising taxes and selling more bonds. the u.s. debt was set at over $25 billion.

the great depression combined with the stock market crash drove the u.s. debt up even further. so, by world war ii the u.s. economy still had not come the grossurpassing domestic product of america. however, after the war the debt quintupled from $50 billion to $256 billion. >> we had a big debt after world ii, 100% of gdp. >> the large amount of debt that toughs had accumulated almost caused an economic collapse. onlyous donations were the thing that would prevent -- the debt situation has never been more dire. approaching the level which would be the worst we've ever had, the biggest debt we've had. >> we are worried that they're not going to get their hand around the dealt. greatestly one of the threat to toughs has been the threat of default. defought is the act of being national pay back the debt, which can lead to distrust in the nation as a whole,

further default would be horrific as the country would not be able to borrow the of money it need to keep itself running. defought could possibly mean the economy.much our >> we came relatively close to a place where the u.s. would have unable to pay its bills, and the reason for that is because we had a ceiling in the on how much we're allowed to borrow and unless that ceiling periodically, the treasury department runs out of ways to finance the debt that we have. so we came relatively close to that and that's happened several the last, you know, five years. >> thankfully, the different toties are being usualed work together to combat the national debt. thisain, the good news in round is that we hope any way our republican colleagues have learned the right lesson from the debacle we just went through, unnecessary pain imposed on the country for 16

days. that way.e to be and we're hoping that our down thes will put clubs and recognize that this negotiation should be between no one budgets and should try to gain advantage by threatening to shut down the default on our debt. the we can put down those clubs and have a serious conversation, can advance the ball. >> congress and the white house are working together to make the a thing of the past. >> the president has made that a which is why he submitted a series of budgets including budget compromises to using very targeted to reduce the debt as a share of our overall economy. president, i i'm will work with anyone in this chamber to build on this momentum. intend to fight obstruction with action and i will oppose any effort to return to the very same policies that brought on this economic crisis

place.first we getink that unless very serious about attacking thee issues, it can impact overall economic stability. >> the debt problem has been plaguing the united states for decade. due to the effort of political toures and the president balance is beginning the tip. america is beginning to lower the gross domestic product ratio and to create more jobs. >> in the six months before i lost nearly we 4 million jobs. and we lost another 4 million our policies were in full effect. facts.re the but so are these. the last 22 months, businesses have created more jobs. million [applause]

we'll see --hat >> i'm not chicken little. sober and smart about it, you have to find ways to reduce the deficit and the debt and you have to do it in the a balanced way. winningtch all of the videos and to learn more about go tompetition, c-span.org and click on student cam. tell us what you think about the issues these students want consider.o post your comment on student cam's facebook page or tweet us tag student cam. >> on the next "washington journal," ohio democrat congressman tim ryan discusses a debate over the federal budget hill.itol followed by senate republican johny committee chairman barasso on health care issues. timeslos angeles correspondent brian bennett will talk about white house

deportation policy under obama.nt "washington journal" has your tweets and facebook comments, at 7:00 a.m. eastern. coming up today, a few live events on the c-span networks. secretary of state john kerry will testify before the senate committee onions national security and foreign policy. you can join the conversation on and twitter, and watch it on c-span 3 at 10 al eastern. on c-span 2 at 1:30 we'll be covering a defense department briefing on u.s. strategy and operations in africa including and antiterrorism effort. an administration official ofently told members congress that an alarming number of countries provide little or stolen or lost passports to interpol.

is security secretary ellen burson. hour and a half.

mr. john wagner, excuse me, it's also been before the subcommittee for. we pressure his attendance today. is the deputy assistant director of the u.s. customs and border protection and brenda sprague to as the deputy assistant secretary for passport services at the department of state, and mr. shawn bray was the director of interpol washington. united states national central bureau. i will more formally introduce them in just a moment. but let me recognize myself for an opening statement here this morning. and first of all of course let me start by saying all of us must and prayers are with the families of those killed and wounded at fort hood, a terrible, terrible incident that them in in my ranking member's state of texas. and certainly as we begin the very to school -- difficult task of what went wrong with be mindful to support the men and women who wear the uniform not only been overseas but certainly when they get, when they return home as well.

this morning we're going to be talking about travel document security which is the cornerstone of the united states' effort to secure our homeland, it's integral to pushing our borders out, the building of terrorists and others who seek to do is harm hinges in large part on the building into trouble. if you make are for terrorists to cross our borders without being detected, future acts of terrorism hopefully can be prevented. and i want to begin a committing the department of homeland security of the department of state for the great progress made as we have strengthened the so-called out a ring of border security. today we conduct more vigorous vetting, early in the process. we stationed dhs personnel and high-risk countries to prevent persons of concern from boarding a plane are getting a visa and where using biometrics to detect visa fraud. and in the past three years is subcommittee has actually held six areas hearings on visa and

document security because we sorely understand the importance of the 9/11 commission's recommendations, and one of the conclusions actually as they said that for terrorists, travel documents are as important as weapons. vulnerabilities in our documents security can be exploited by those who would do us harm so we must have robust measures in place to deter and to ultimately detect those traveling on false documents. to that end we would certainly dismayed to from press reports that two of the passengers on the malaysian flight 370 bordered the aircraft using stolen passports, and while of course as been reported we don't have any reason to believe that these individuals were involved in an act of terrorism, it sort highlights the vulnerability in the aviation systems abroad. our thoughts and prayers go out to the families who are still waiting to learn what has happened to their loved ones and which would hope and pray that that plane will soon be found. in the united states for the work of the department of homeland security, we've made

the necessary changes to keep the flying public secure, and the building of passengers to board a flight bound for the united states with known, lost or stolen passport is very, very low. in the years after 2001 the international committee through interpol created a lost and stolen travel document database that is -- send information to a central repository and check against that database to make sure no one could enter a country or board a plane with a known, lost or stolen passport. unfortunately, only three countries in the world routinely check flight manifest against that database. the united states of course, the united kingdom and the united arab emirates. so there is no question that more countries should follow our lead, otherwise international travelers, including americans who travel internationally, are at risk. according to interpol, in 2013

travelers bordered international flights more than a billion times without having to passport numbers checked against the database. tools are in place to determine if the passport has been reported missing, and we should use every avenue at our disposal to encourage countries to do the right thing, including offering technical assistance where appropriate. in addition to not consistently checking the lost or stolen passport database most countries are not consistently sharing lost and stolen passport information with the interpol database. the overwhelming majority of the 40 million records in the lost and stolen database comes from visa waiver program countries. in large part because it is condition for visa free travel to the united states. however those countries do not routinely check their flight manifest against the database. and as a result i will be exploring and introducing legislation and legislative solutions to encourage countries within the visa waiver program to do so. because without time reporting

of lost or stolen travel documents become straight difficult for cbp through the advanced targeting system to determine if someone is lying on a false document before they present themselves to a customs officer at an airport. if a terrorist is intent to hijack an airplane, it might be duly. and even though the united states has a robust screening in vetting process for travelers, it doesn't mean our work in this area is done. i understand cbp just recently began to check passengers on outbound flights against the lost and stolen database. we certainly are interested in hanging from our witnesses today why that wasn't done before. finally, i want to get an update on the work that the department of homeland security and cbp and the state department, and interpol, done since 9/11 to prevent those with lost, stolen and fraudulent passports from getting on a plane bound for the united states. while americans should be confident that teach-ins is doing good work vetting all of the appropriate databases, we

can and should work with our international partners to strengthen aviation security for americans who travel abroad. this subcommittee stands ready to assist in any way that we can. and the chair would not recognize my ranking member, on the subcommittee, a gently from texas, ms. jackson lee for her opening statement. >> thank you very much, madam chair. good morning to the witnesses. thank you so very much for your presence here today, and thank you again, madam chair, for reminding us as i intended to do of the tragedy that occurred in my home state, my neighbors at fort hood, texas, and to again offer to those men and women who have been brave enough to put on the nation's uniform to fight in faraway places, our deepest concern and sympathy, certainty for the families have lost their loved ones who, as i indicated, are willing to serve in the united states military, and certainly those who were injured. this is the second time that

this tragedy occurred at fort hood, and second time that we've had to embrace those who, as i said, are our neighbors. i mourned with them in 2009 and will continue to do so now. i hope this committee will have an opportunity to address the question of protecting even as this is a military issue, protecting our men and women while they're on domestic soil, and view it as a cause for zero tolerance for these kinds of incidents on the nation's domestic military bases. again, my sympathy do not only the men and women at fort hood and the leadership, but also to the people of the state of texas. this is another tragedy that we are facing, trying to find solutions, and i would make mention that even as this has gone into many, many days, that we still express our concern for

the families of the passengers of malaysia airlines flight 370. i hope that it will not be their final and as there's been no determination as to what occurred to that particular flight. but today i am appreciative that we are holding this hearing as i spoke to the chairwoman in the immediacy of the hours of determining that there were passengers on that flight that have fraudulent passports. survey there have been continuing investigations and whether not we have concluded that there was no connection, we do know that passengers traveled with fraudulent passport. and as well but american citizens were on that flight. while many questions remain unanswered regarding the tragic disappearance of flight 370, we do not know as i indicated what connection those two passengers may have had. to its demise, if any. to iranian nationals were allowed to come using italian and an australian passport -- posturing passports had been

injured in interpol stoler a lost passport database. reports suggest that these individuals were not criminals or terrorists but rather a asylum-seekers hoping to reach your. nevertheless, the fact that at least in certain countries travelers can readily board aircraft using passports that do not belong to them is a cause for concern. if a couple of asylum-seekers can do it, so can terrorists or criminals. and after 9/11 and even in other countries before that, we know that we live in a different territory with different actors and different reasons for their actions. in fact, they are known examples of terrorist comment on fraudulent documents. according to interpol, master money the 1993 world trade center bombing in new york committed his crimes after traveling internationally on a stolen passport. also the so-called white widow of a london july 2005 suicide

bomber is wanted in kenya and currently at large with aliases linked to a fraudulent passport and a passport reported stolen. evidence that this is a problem. it is my understanding that the u.s. is ahead of most of the rest of the when it comes to preventing individual talent a loss, stone or fraudulent doctors. department of homeland security systematically checks all travelers documents against appropriate lost and stolen database. these checks yield results. for example, in fiscal year 2013 u. fiscal year 2013 u.s. customs and border protection, cbp, reviewed 17,710 possible hits against lost and stolen databases resulted in 496 individuals being denied from boarding planes to the u.s. already in fiscal year 2014, cbp has reviewed 10,806 possible hits resulting in 159 individuals in denied boarding

but i also want to thank homeland security and the various agencies relevant to the issue of our border security for the extended perimeters and improved security that we've had post-9/11. we are clearly, as i've often said, in a better place than we were. thank them again for the service at what we've been able to benefit from. since flight 370 incident, not just arriving passengers but also those departing this country. while overdue, this step should post our remaining -- should close the remaining loophole applied to or from this country. hope to hear from our dhs witnesses debate about why the party passengers had not really been included in their checks and whether any analysis have been done such going to determine whether passengers have been departing the u.s. on documents that do not belong to them. i also hope that we will be able to embrace and declared the airline industry as we move

forward on a number of ways to ensure the safety and security of the traveling public. hope to here from all over what this is about how we can encourage our international partners to follow the lead of you as an handful of other countries that regularly check travel documents against intervals database. it is my understanding that traveling on loss, still are otherwise fraudulent travel documents has already come place in certain parts of the world. doing so is made possible because fewer than 20 of interpol's 190 countries systematically check passports against s. ltd. although the flight 37 incident has focused attention on the vulnerability was already known to interpol. in fact, speak at the seventh annual world summit in february just before flight 370 incident, interpol secretary-general noble lamented that only a handful of countries are systematically using sltd to screen travelers.

when that technology and device is available, leaving our global security apparatus vulnerable, exploitation by criminals and terrorists. the world is getting smaller. traveled from all over the world to all over the world, this is simply unacceptable. helped her from her witnesses debate about how we can encourage other countries, particularly those would work closely with on aviation security matters to begin regular screening passengers or doctors against interpol's the database. it is in that then i will be looking to draft legislation dealing with the enforcement aspect of this particular aspect of aviation travel. the security of the traveling public including u.s. citizens traveling between foreign countries can well be at stake as well as those traveling from foreign countries to the united states as well as americans leaving our soil and traveling elsewhere around the world. again i think chairwoman miller for holding today's hearing, and

the witnesses for joining us. at this time i ask unanimous consent to allow mr. swallow, a member of the full committee, to sit and question the witnesses at today's hearing. >> without objection. >> i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman. other members of the committee are reminded that helping statement might be submitted for the record. we are pleased today to have as an agent for very distinguished witnesses joining us today spent allow me to indicate that i am called to be part of a quorum in a market and i'll be away for just a moment. i think the chairwoman for her courtesy. >> certainly. a busy morning here on the hill and we will be having votes a little after 10 so we will move a long. mr. alan bersin is the assistant secretary for national affairs and chief diplomatic officer for the department of homeland security. previously mr. bersin service commission for u.s. customs and

border protection. mr. john wagner is acting deputy assistant commissioner for the office of field operations in u.s. border protection. mr. wagner from serve as executive director and passenger programs was responsible for all travelers admissibility related policies and programs. ms. brenda sprague served as deputy assistant secretary of state for passport services in the bureau of consular affairs, a position she held since july of 2008. and in this capacity this break oversees a network of 28 agencies and centers that are responsible for the exception -- adjudication and issuance of u.s. task force. mr. chabot is the director of interpol washington, the nsa's national central bureau, a position he has held since 2012. as director the xml for the attorney general as the official u.s. represents to interpol. mr. bray has been focused on improving partnerships between the other 189 interpol member countries and the u.s. a

federal, state and local tribal law enforcement counterparts. careful statements about what is will appear in the record and the turn of recognizes mr. bersin for his statement. >> thank you, madam chair, ranking member of the, i appreciate this opportunity on this subject. the international criminal police organization or interpol is the world's largest transnational police association with 190 member countries today. each member country as a national central bureau to conduct interval activities and could make its services within its national territory. on the service is interpol provides to the law enforcement entities of every member country is access to its sltd, stolen and lost travel document database. this database contains over 49 records provided by nearly 170 of the organization's members. on march 9, interpol confirmed

that two of the passports used by passengers that boarded malaysia and fought through some have been recorded and installed a lost travel documents a base. as noted by the ranking member, interpol secretary-general ronald noble noted to the surprise of many that very few countries systematically query the sltd database for the purpose of verifying whether a passport has been reported as lost and stolen. even more troubling is the miniscule rate at which countries outside of europe, canada and the united states visa waiver countries our country bidding information to the database. madam chair, as you noted since 9/11, the united states government and the american people have addressed the security vulnerabilities exposed so tragically on that day. in the 12 years since any thoroughly bipartisan fashion in which this committee has play significant role, we have

together constructed a multilayer, fully automated, in agency approach to homeland security. as additional vulnerabilities have been revealed, and are revealed, we examine and respond to them properly in concert with the concert. -- congress. eveas we do so to in the contexf lost and stolen passports. when an individual seeking admission to the united states presents a foreign passport, whether he or she seeks admission by land, by commercial air or by sea, that passport to screen against the sltd database prior to admission. in fact, many cases on multiple occasions. doubt as mr. wagner will explain we screen outbound passports in a way. most countries in the interpol committee do not screen travelers against the database as thoroughly as we did in the united states. meaning not at all. the alarming number of countries that report very few and in some cases no lost or stolen passport

data to the sltd database. as a condition for participation as the chair noted, these a waiver countries are required to do so. the united states, canada and europe as those of the other the deputy partners according have provided a vast majority of the 49 records in the slt database. some of the most populous countries in the world note of it including china, india and indonesia have contributed few if any records to the database. despite the remarkable department of the database, 49 records added in the past 12 years, the lack of data provided by many interpol member countries remains significant. i have had the honor of serving on the interpol executive committee, and as vice president of the americas since novembe november 2012, and i've been urging the organization to prioritize the sltd program and other border security efforts as core functions of interpol.

to be sure, madam chair, congressmen, there are real and current challenges to this vision. despite the fact that dhs and the united states national central bureau have worked to incorporate recommendations for data reporting and response times into interpol's standard operating procedures, many countries have not been able to connect their agencies and interpol does not require them to do so. the task ahead is encouraging our partners to more fully utilize the sltd database and to engage in these kinds of border screening and security efforts. this can only add to this that from a standpoint of american security. i look forward to exploring with you how we may best approach this latest challenge. it will not be the last, madam chair, and congressmen, but i take from our past experience that we can forge and resolve this matter in a satisfactorily cost-effective way.

thank you for this opportunity again, and i look forward to responding to your questions. >> thank you very much, mr. bersin. mr. wagner. >> chairman miller, ranking member lee and testing which members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to appear today and to discuss our u.s. passports are good for appreciate the opportunity to join my colleague conspicuously important issue supports the core mission of cbp. today i would like to discuss the sources of information of able to see bp, how we query this information as well as operational responses in a different travelers are desperate to deliver cbp officers to access real-time and reliable information on all travis seeking admission to the estateestates is critical for antiterrorism and anti-fraud efforts. however, secure modern document may be today, cbp must ensure that a traveler isn't fraudulent presenting another individuals valid passport or other travel

documents with the dog is stolen or intentionally provided to enter the united states. cbp uses interpol stolen a lost travel document database, and department of state called through lost and stolen passport and support systems in the air land and sea environments to verify the validity and status of travel documents. cbp also uses the sltd data on a citizen of a visa waiver program country applies for travel authorization through the electronic system for traveler authorization also known as esta. cbs tonight over 98,000 s. does since 2008 for lost and stolen records. and all travel environment air, land, and sea, cbp officers were troubled it was against tax which is our primary database that includes access to many enforcement systems including lost and stolen test -- and edit it in the air and see if i'm cbp as extra advantage of receiving airline travel information prior

to departure from the foreign location to this enables cbp to address potential risk factors and admissible issues prior to boarding the aircraft. cbp will coordinate our national targeting center and our assets overseas in immigration advisory program or in preclearance oma cornet directly with the airline to prevent boarding in cases where the esta has been denied for the traveler does not have a replacement document to the one reported lost or stolen. cbp has recommended over 650 no board recommendations to carriers in the last 18 months. in all environments cbp chordates with interpol when matches are returned from the sltd. many of the cases are actually travelers with no malice i think it. there simply travelers headed for a lost document, but later founded and are trying out to use it for travel. in ms. casey bp will verify the person's identity and if the passport is a u.s. passport we will allow the traveler to proceed but will seize the

passport and returned to the department of state. in other cases the travel will have a valid replacement document for the lost and stolen one and cbp will verify that they are the to bear and about the traveler to proceed. this often occurs in the air environment when the traveler hasn't updated their airline profile with an airline and the old passport data has been transmitted to us. if the travelers found to be present a lost or stolen passport as an impostor or is altered and tempered with a passport in any form, cbp will take appropriate law enforcement action against that traveler. in the last 18 months see pscs over 300 lost and stolen documents using attempt to enter the united states fraudulently. to enhance passport security operations, cbp has developed a carrier liaison program which provides training to airlines and security companies and identifying improperly documented passengers destined to the united states. cop keating provides airline personal hands-on instruction fraudulent document identification or passenger

assessment, posture identification and traveler document verification. to date the clp has trained 33,600 airline security personnel. winters encountered a lost or stolen document, clp training instructs teachers to contact the regional carrier liaison groups that are 20 for seven operations maintained at airports in new york, miami and honolulu. the rcl just respond in real-time to carry increased concern to plenty of the total document presented. after a determinadetermina tion a loss of some travel docket has been made, they will make the recommendation to board the passenger or denied boarding. so in concert with a part of cbp strive to ensure that travelers who present a risk are abruptly interviewed or vetted before boarding a flight bound for the united states in any document his address before traveling to give. cbs place opposite the strategic airports overseas to work with carriers and host nation

authorities and has built strong liaisons with airline represents improve our ability to address threats as early as possible and effectively expand our security efforts beyond the physical port abuse but these efforts seek to keep our transportation sector safe and prevent threats from ever reaching the united states. these efforts also enhanced efficiency and create savings for the us government and the private sector by preventing inadmissible travelers from traveling to the united states. and for the opportunity to testify today and i'm happy to answer your questions. >> think you very much, mr. wagner. the chair recognizes mr. sprague for her testimony. >> chairman miller, distinguish most of the committee to thank you for the opportunity to testify today about the many things the department of state does to promote the security of u.s. passport and to deter passport for appreciate your focus on this important topic. we at the department of state believe to prevent passport fraud we need to focus on five areas. a sophisticated document with

technic advanced security features, a robust and vigorous education system, real-time sharing of data, a proactive anti-fraud program, and outraged u.s. citizens to educate them -- i'm sorry. to educate them about the important form of identification. because of the access of passport provides, we spend years creating products with high-tech security features in photo biometric and secure limiting micro-printed, color shifting ink enhanced electronics that render these documents virtually impossible to counterfeit. but it's the sophistication of u.s. passport increases, so did efforts of those attempting to commit passport fraud. today's passport fraud most often involves fraudulent birth certificates, fake identities and the look-alike photos. passport adjudicative spend hours annually in mandated trained to make certain that they have the skills to identify there is types of fraud.

we also integrate several real-time fron front-end databae checks into our education system. but this is not enough. as recent events have shown, even a well-designed, well educated passport still if on ability in the wrong hands. domestically we counter this by reporting lost, stolen and revoked passports detected, the system and custom border protection used to screen arriving passengers at u.s. ports of entry. in turn cbp transcends us u.s. passport its season at u.s. borders so that we can identify patterns and determine whether the better submits a fraudulent passport application internationally we lead the way in reporting lost, stolen and revoked passport data to the interpol lost and stolen travel document. we provide interpol with real-time data including the passport number and date of issue so it is accessible to member law enforcement authorities worldwide. we also require all countries in our visa waiver program to

report lost and stolen data to interpol if they wish to maintain vwp status. the departments of state and homeland security use the sltd to that visa applicants inbound flights and doesn't manifest and people crossing mentors at all u.s. ports of entry. if you this is about international law and border enforcement agencies, the sltd effectively prevents impostors and is lost or stolen passports they bought or obtained fraudulently for travel. though i would our documents and systems are strong, there is never time to rest on our laurels. the u.s. passport is one of those sought after documents in the world. not only is it an international can't document it is also a legal form of identification and might be used to determine eligibility or endowment benefits, to apply for driver's license, to confirm employment eligibility, to qualify for a mortgage or to open a bank account. this means we must continually

assess the passport security features and design for potential vulnerabilities and incorporate new measures as technology advances. through our website, travel top state.gov after committee outreach by our 29 passport agencies, we remind you citizens of the importance of safeguarding their passport and provide guidance for reporting to us if the documentation is lost or stolen. we continually review our methods to improve our passport issuance system and fraud detection capabilities. and look for new ways to partner with other agencies to educate the public and strengthen existing procedures. we welcome opportunities to expand the efforts with federal, state, local and international agencies to protect our citizens and promote safe, secure and legal travel throughout the world. thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today. i'm happy to answer any questions you may have. >> thank you very much,

mr. sprague. mr. sprague. thatcher never get jesus mr. bray for his testimony. >> thank you, chairman miller, ranking member jackson lee and distinguished members of the subcommittee. it is an honor to be today to provide you with an overview of interpol stole the lost travel document database or sltd. dashing stl p. before this i'd like to echo the previous statement of the pen regarding the tragedies there's a malaysia airlines flight 370. our thoughts and prayers remain with the families and loved ones of the flight passenger and crew. this incident servicers to underscore the need for coordination and collaboration across international borders great a safer, more secure world for us all. as you're aware the international criminal police organization commonly known as interpol is the largest police organization in the world. membership is comprised of the national police the first from 190 member companies. all of which participate in the organization on a voluntary basis to interpol exist to

ensure and promote the widest possible you to assistance between these police authorities. in order to achieve this high level of cooperation each interpol never should country is required to establish and maintain a national central bureau. interval washington is that national central bureau for the united states. a component of the department of justice were unique in that we are also omitted by the department of homeland security. enough for six year of operation interpol washington is or but a multisector workforce consisting of a full-time staff from the department of justice and an additional senior personnel represent more than 30 years law enforcement agencies. simply stated our mission is to visit the international police cooperation, communication and investigations through interpol on behalf of the united states. we support and heavily utilize interpol's database and resources, it's global, secure global complete situation in the i-20 47 and what to publish this nation. it is the it would force him that connects the uc berkeley with interpol which with resources but also correctly with our 189 other member

country partners. the use of its databases are governed by interpol tools in the processing of data. it is these rules allow interpol washington to extend the service and data including sltd to u.s. law enforcement. in accordance with our internal information sharing session interpol washington is next and the ability to query sltd to all authorities to existing u.s. law enforcement data systems. the sltd itself is essentially a search of a positive stolen and lost passport, visa and attended document information designed to prevent illicit international travel and false impersonation by criminals and terrorists. a query against the database to which there' there is a naturalt in the return of only information about the suspect document itself but will not include personally identifiable information about the document holder. although stronger encouraged by interpol, participation in sltd is voluntary and does very country by country the u.s. has

embraced as a pd in its efforts as the critical point of its persecuting and transportation strategy. in the united states the bureau of consular affairs at the department of state as a designated target and source for the stove and lost passport data that is popular into the stove and last travel database. the u.s. making over 39th of the more than 49 records contained in the sltd. u.s. participation in sltd is managed at interpol washington by our operations and command center. working on a 24 by seven basis recorded the entry of that data into the u.s. passport data into the sltd, and also verify and result in matches against the database by either for or domestic authorities. in 2013, u.s. law enforcement border security and council authorities already sop in more than 238 million times. accounted for proximate 30% of all query activity worldwide. these queries result in more than 25,000 matches against the

database, the of 100 of which were resolved administratively. small number of these hits, however, represent a series potential concern and were referred to appropriate law enforcement authorities for further investigation. as you can see, interpol washington is aggressively pursued the use of sltd to enhance and support on national security investigation. we will also continue to explore additional applications for sobt to further assist our law enforcement can be to ensure the safety of the american people. chairman miller, ranking member jackson lee, and distinguished of the subcommittee i appreciate the opportunity to testify about our role and support program and i've be pleased at any questions you have at this time. >> thank you very much, nestled appreciate all of the witnesses your it's been very, very informative. i think they're interesting issue and something that i think the united states congress needs to be looking at a bit more. because really the purpose of this hearing, first of all, we have a great story to tell, as

has been mentioned here this money. the united states has a great story to tell about how significantly we have ratcheted up our security, our document security, et cetera, for our american citizens, particularly flying domestically here since 9/11. it really is a remarkable achievement by our nation i think. and so i think, i want to make sure that our united states systems do recognize and take a high degree can't have high degree of confidence and comfort level in the fact of what is happening with our various government agencies when our citizens are traveling domestically here. but as we are very aware now, and i think the american citizens are much more aware, because of the tragic of the malaysian flight 370, that if you are an american citizen and you are traveling internationally, particularly from one international country to another, they don't have the

same type of security with their data documentation that we do. and suppose we know that, but yet we need to look at what types of things we could do perhaps to incentivize others to improve a bit, particularly when they see in the malaysian flight 370 there were american citizens traveling on that aircraft. and so since that has happened, the world continues to search for that flight, we decided to have this hearing this morning really to look into this issue a bit and explore what kinds of options we might have. and certainly one that comes to mind immediately and has been mentioned here of course extensively, and there's a testament today in our opening comments, both myself and the ranking member, i mean, we have 38 countries, a list of 38 countries that do, these are our friends.

these are our allies, these nations that are under the visa free travel, the vwp program. and this is a program that the united states started back in the '80s really as a way to expedite travel from our allied countries into the united states and for tourism, for commerce, et cetera. and since 9/11 we have had great success with them. certainly checking, or giving us information, if there is a lost or stolen passport. so that is all good. however, it is interesting and it really comes like i think because of the malaysian flight that these same countries are not really checking as they could for the potential stolen or lost passport under database when people are getting on their

flights. and so again these are other nations, and i think the united states obviously they are our friends, allies consider but we do this particular program with them, and i'm just wondering, i mentioned in my opening statement, it's my intention we are looking at introducing legislation that would require them as a participant in this program to really not only just regulate submit information on lost and stolen passports, but really for these countries also to routinely check the database for passengers who are boarding these flights. and i mean, you look at the list of the countries here. as i say, these are our friends and allies, closest allies in the world. look at france and germany and greece, ireland, italy, et cetera. this information is available, and in some ways it would seem to me that many of these

countries don't need to incentivize by the united states. perhaps they will start doing it on their own at what has come to light with malaysia's flight. i guess i would throw the question out, maybe start with mr. bersin. what is your thought about actually legislation about something like that and what you think would be the reaction of our allied countries for something like that? would they consider it an intrusion? what would you you about the on something like that? >> madam chair, so of course you recognize that pending the submission of legislation this is, which the department would have a formal review process, this is in good faith response to your -- >> at i appreciate that. there has not been legislation introduced by as i said it is my intent to do so. >> is looking at. >> is looking at the what and which visa waiver countries operate now, we do require them to pipe of the database so that every time someone comes -- populate -- on the way to the

united states we have been queried the database, maintained by interpol operate as ms. sprague indicated and find lost and stolen documents, and the number is great because of the requirement. also when you get on a foreign airline and they come, someone is coming on a foreign airline from those countries, we get the same benefit because the advanced passenger information requirement of games to any flight from any country, whether visa waiver or else coming to the united states. the question you raised which is whether as a condition of protecting into visa waiver program they ought to be compelled to scream against the database with regard to all flights, regardless of whether the coming towards us are going elsewhere, poses an interesting policy question. it does address the issue that we see highlighted by malaysian airline or flight 370 and the

two iranians using the lost or stolen passport issued in italy and austria. is a legitimate issue. i believe though that we are going to have to assess whether of all the things that we would require that do not have a direct impact on us, whether that would be one of them, i think it's an open question. ..

ct do that. some of them do it in a varying degrees and then the ability to run that data against the different databases that are there for that government to access becomes a technology and resource issue for a lot of the governments to do. in the cases where we've had our closest partners develop these types of systems we've also brokered some arrangements to help them targeted information and help them review it and exchange information and located personnel on the ground to work with their authorities to help them adjudicate a lot of the manifests. we have officers in camelot and mexico. it's an extension of the advisory program. but we can work with travelers moving towards the government to

identify travelers in the countries to help them identify that. we've had some success with stolen documents entering pamelor in mexico to do that so people continue to push certain countries to expand on those really on those capabilities. >> following up with mr. wagner because it was in your testimony or one of you that testified at the cbp was going to be just starting a screening for lost in the store when passports and i know you've been doing that on the in-bomb flights. can you tell us what we are doing and why we are doing that and how it advantages us from the security risk standpoint? >> we get 100% of the passengers departing the united states manifests. historically we have screened them for some of our top threats that we face the terrorist

screening, no-fly hit with some of the targeting and analysis. we've recently added to the lost and stolen database to the manifests and screaming. we are looking now i want to see 60 to 80 hits a day total. we are looking to program the systems to be able to see if we can administratively reconcile so we are not chasing down administrative actions. the old database person is interred. as we've seen on the inbound the majority are reconciled in the administrative manner cause they have a replacement document and they lost and found the document

so we see ways we can help them pinpoint the ones that are with qualified intent and depart the u.s. on the stove and document. and we are working to see if they can build and prohibiting printing the boarding pass when they get the hits to reconcile the information and respond. it is properly credentialed the person leverages a lot of that as well. even though we are talking about peace and passports activity i think interpol is an interesting organization and you mentioned all of the members countries.

for instance if you had germany got on an aircraft flying into the united states would they be sharing that information with us? not just other threats. so i understand how the information sharing works in the organization. >> it can be received from germany and other countries. we routinely receive information regarding traveling sex offenders from a generally registered offenders in many countries that have a registry for that but for the countries that may be notifying us. we communicate that information immediately to the determination can bthatdetermination can be me disability in the united states but that's one story.

there is information regarding criminals, terrorists that are chain-smoking on a daily basis. at the command center is 24 by seven, 365 s 365 so they procesd over 30,000 messages to and from the law enforcement community. this is the work we do every day into vs ltd has been a component of the work we do to enhance u.s. security. as we spoke about it is a department of justice concern. there are no officers there. it is law enforcement and tools to help us overcome linguistic and sometimes cheap traffic barriers with other foreign countries. as you said it's been a success story we will be able to build upon in the future.

>> as indicated that we can receive information on the criminal records and in fact it is the vehicle that they can communicate and there are sex offender registered but that information was not come unless there is a specific case or law enforcement inquiry. unless that sex offender or murderer unless that record is in the fbi database we had no routine insight into what is in the data records of other countries. that's the issue.

if there is a specific case or inquiry they would receive that information but the point is it's not a routine data exchange because we don't have routine access to german criminal records anymor any more than the routine access unless there is a case towards the criminal records. >> of the subcommittee and the full committee is interested in pursuing legislation in regards to biometrics etc. and that is the only sure fire wa surefire f verifying somebody's identity in this case we are only talking about foreign travelers into the united states. they are an important tool for something like that perhaps from the department. do we have a comment on that?

>> i would never pretend to be an expert but as you know they provide ten fingerprints and of course those can be verified at the entry so the most reliable biometric accepted his fingerprints and they are already collected. >> one of the requirement requit congress imposed is that we enter into something called the preventing and combating serious crime agreements. there's also a national security agreement that's required that would facilitate the exchange of information and we do have with the 38 countries in agreement and in fact with some countries that are not members we have those agreements. but we are at the very dawn of creating the exchange and one of

them is biometric we can inquiry each other's fingerprint databases and if ther there's ad light alert to call the police authority to say what is that about. >> certainly the information is power. such a critical component of the security that we appreciate that and the chair recognizes the ranking member. >> let me thank the chairwoman and the witnesses again. in my opening statement i mentioned it to individuals and i'm going to mention them again because in the present

circumstances of the malaysian flight 370, the investigation initially has not pointed to the individuals having criminal intent to bring the plane down. what is attributed to these individuals in false passports is a benign but important issue of a desperation added that the bike drop and 50 and sympathy. i don't want that determination to cloud how serious this hearing is and how crucial that we have a construct that will let the world know this is a very serious issue and the witnesses already know that in actuality he was convicted of masterminding not just a

traveling soldier standing by the wayside about masterminding the world trade center bombing and many have made note of the fact that it's something that didn't wake america up. it was so unusual we didn't attribute it to the beginning change in the psyche of those that want to do america harm but he was traveling internationally on a stolen passport and of the widothewidow that is now wantedn kenya is linked to fraudulent passport. we must leave here with the idea that solutions are possible and i would like to put on the record that interpol has taken note travelers have boarded

flights more than 1 billion times without having their passports checked against the lost travel documents. that is very much a wake-up call so i would ask you what impediments with respect to technology privacy concerns that are blocking or keeping countries and what is your view of how the u.s. might be able to be hopeful to these countries? you are correct with the observation on the 1 billion -- >> that is a large number. >> very large. you indicate some of the difficulties the countries have. these include not only resource free strains in terms of lacking the money and priority of a

budget decision. it also involves the lack of technological know-how to set up the kind of sophisticated information technology systems that are required to create this kind of automated checking. it also involves as you indicated the invisible requirements or constraints of privacy and the lack of coordination between immigration authorities and police authorities of the provincial levels in foreign countries. all of those together within institutional, create an institutional capacity to operate the kind of automated vending systems that we have. having said that, we have to have a strategy with regard to those countries that are critical to our security to ensure at the very least they populate the stolen and lost travel document database. the important requirement for us

in the near term is that we have the data to be able to see who may be traveling to the united states. the second requirement is to figure out again based on flow of passengers what strategic capacity building efforts we ought to engage in to help countries build up the kind of technological and capital requirements to build up the systems and while we do that, to some extent we don't, for example, at the department of homeland security have capacity buildinbuilding fund and fundine sector funding in which to do that. so when we go out to do that they grant from the state department or the defense department we have to do that so-called aldehyde which we regularly do. >> that you have no budget line items that would allow you to dip into the funds and be

engaged in that kind of capacity building? >> that's correct. >> when the secretary went to visit with countries dealing with tsa responsibilities in foreign countries, what outreach was that? >> with regard to tsa because of the responsibilities for the screening and airport security has a limited separate line budget with regards to providing technical assistance on airport security no other component to my knowledge has a separate line item that would permit the kind of capacity building. >> let me quickly pursue this very briefly. you said that despite the fact they work to incorporate

recommendations on response times and the standard operating procedure they do not require member countries to implement them. do you have recommendations on this? >> as i said in response to the chairs question requiring other countries to screen the database is an issue we need to debate but populating it has a direct and immediate impact on our security so if we go down that route and mandates or capacity building efforts i would focus on getting data into the database that we could screen. whether we could cooperate with interpol and other organizations such as the civil aviation

organization is one we also need to explore as we move forward. >> but there is a question with mr. wagner. cbp has screamed arriving passengers. you haven't screamed departing pax to the passengers i think you started after malaysia 370. mr. bersin said he doesn't believe any other agency have capacity building. i need a yes or no on that and then whether this indicates our ability in the human trafficking issue because i would imagine that that is also a possibility

for individuals being smuggled todathey may be on a fraudulent passport as well but the question is you just started giving the exiting passengers. why haven't you done it and then what about the impact getting our hands around the passports on human smuggling? >> we've recently added to the lost and stolen documents to the outbound manifest screening that we do. we will focus primarily on the terrorist screening database is and other types of national security. but we will call out some of the administrative heads. >> we will be working to come up with a better -- >> do you believe in issues dealing with human smuggling and trafficking? >> and assuring people that are properly credentialed.

as far as the capacity building i don't think we have a line item for it but we do put a lot of resources into doing that and work with the department of state to fund those activities and like i mentioned before helping the governments build these advanced passenger information systems to get the manifests, to do the targeting and analysis and helping ex- change that information is critical to a lot of our priorities. i have questions i will put in the record and ask for a response from the committee and i will ask about how you discern the possible hits but do you do if a possible hit is discerned. now the chair recognizes the gentleman from mississippi.

>> in an effort to share information to the passports as a criteria in the visa waiver program countries must sign agreements with united states regarding the sharing of lost and stolen passports. through participation in the program that nations have agreed to share the lost and stolen passport information. doctor bersin, do the countries routinely share information on lost and stolen passports in interpol backs >> yesterday due into there was regular checking that we do to see that that requirement is met that would be a preview of how many entries have been made by the countries and if th that problem arises we will remedy that. >> are there any countries that are