a program for apprenticeships in certain industries where people could learn different skills. it could be in the computer industry or high-tech wages. muchrtainly need to put more money toward education, especially towards those who may not have the opportunity to go to an advanced university. thank you for your suggestion. host: that is all the time we have for today. thank you so much for joining us this morning. guest: i have enjoyed it. thank you for having me. tomorrowwill be back at 7:00 eastern. have a great weekend. ♪ [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014]

>> house lawmakers begin their two-week holiday recess but not before owning yesterday to approve of the republican 2015 budget proposal. it balances the budget by making $5 trillion in spending cuts over the 10 years. party lines.along the senate is not expected to take up the measure. he said it does have a pre-session this afternoon at which point he reread will take up plans to judicial nominations. you can watch the senate today live at 4:00 eastern on c-span2. we will take you live to the white house this morning for a personnel announcement from president obama. he's expected to announce that sylvia burwell will replace

kathleen sebelius as health and human services secretary. for youhave that life at 11:00 eastern this morning and we will open up our phone lines to get your reaction afterward. and joe michelle obama biden host a white house event in support of military and veteran caregivers at the white house. also participating, elizabeth dole and former first lady roslyn carter. that is at noon eastern. coming up later, live remarks from jack lew. he will be holding a news conference following a meeting with g 20 finance ministers here in washington. we will have that for you live at 6:00 eastern. tonight, paul ryan headlined the iowa republican dinner in cedar rapids. he is one of a number of acres. that is naked under way at 8:00 eastern. we will have live coverage here on c-span. we would like to hear what you think.

you can use our facebook page or twitter. assembled today in federal hall we are reminded of the ones who served before us and those who served first. it is a humbling experience to stand on the site where the thet congress met, where first president was sworn, where the bill of rights was introduced. every member of the house and senate and member of this country can draw a straight line from the event in federal hall to the life we all know today. here,ongress convenes america was a nation of 4 million souls. -- the tallest was trinity church. included signers of the declaration of independence and men who had marched in george washington's army. from virginia still in their 30's served in

that congress. their names were madison and monroe. that greatbers knew responsibilities had come to then. as vice president john adams observed, a trust of the greatest magnitude is committed to this legislature in the eyes of the world. in their actions, the members of the first congress met that test. although this is the nation's capital for only a short time. have continued to be in new york. when you're go this great one showed itself to be a place of valor, generosity and grace. , were so many innocent lives were taken, the world saw acts of kindness and heroism that will be remembered forever. introducedent bush

them last september, it was as if the members of congress had recognize these two men that came directly off the battlefield. today congress gathers near that battlefield to honor the characters shown in the current show in new york these last 360 days. every innocent life taken in the attacks of september 11. >> find more highlights from 30 years.f -- 35 it was brought to you today as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. with taxi approaching next week, americans for tax reform grover norquist along with members of congress and

senator rand paul of kentucky held a press conference thursday forax policy and the need tax reform. this runs about one hour. >> thank you for coming. evenis our annual tax date press conference here at americans for tax reforms were he the tax and irs issue. before i turn it over to grover norquist, who will be the emcee of this event, i want to run through the handout you have on your seats. all of these can be found on atr.org whcih forget our hashtag ich is #taxday. people have committed to their

constituents that they will not any net tax increase as long as they are elected a member of congress. oped it i have is in have about why the irs should not be preparing people's taxes. i also have a package on the lowest learner affair which is very good information to have. with that i will turn it over to grover norquist. we have leaders who will be here speaking today about taxes. hold anoint out that we event like this april -- every april 15. do not worry if you have not figured taxes and. members will be back in their districts and states on april 15 here at this year is a little bit different than other tax years. we are in the discussion with

thick standards in the conversation about what fundamental tax reform we know is coming. what year will kick off is unclear. this will be formed. every april 15 only do these americane know the people have a certain amount of fear about the iraq'rs and the power. this is the first time the people who run the irs are beginning to have fear about the american people and how they have been treated by some of the leaders. today will beker the house majority leader erik cantor from the great state of virginia. >> thanks. withpleasure to be here americans for tax reform. has consistently been the

voice for the taxpayers of this country demanding reform of our tax system. is a lot of discussion right now going on in this building and throughout the country about the lack of confidence that people have in what is going on. central to that is the trust that the people of this country ande in their government the appropriate balance of that government in terms of whether it works for the people or the other way around. to the point that was made by grover in terms of confidence of angerd and the fear or of the people is essential. it essential to this notion of distrust. it is reprehensible to think that an administration would condone activity on the part of bureaucrats that employ the tools of a neutral instrument such as the tax agency toward

political ends. it is one thing when people are elected. members are elected. voters and citizens of america have a right to expect the individual selected will be promoting his are four philosophy or agenda. that aas it expect it president or his administration was going to use the mutual instrument like the tax election agency to further political ends . that is what is going on right now. the house has taken action. intent forounced the us. the ways and means committee took an extraordinary step in this criminal referral. we've got to get to the bottom

of it if we're going to restore the trust that is owed to the american people on the part of this government. on the other issue of april 15, it is a day we are all reminded much money the government takes from hard-working families. we are taxed enough already. democratswe got the right now as we speak. this is unacceptable. than that.etter we are pushing forward in terms of ideas, focus on how we reform our tax code. thank you very much.

>> we are joined by steve gillies, the chairman of the republican study committee. >> i want to thank grover for the leadership you provide. tax policyg what means to families across the country and how important it is to cut tax rate to get more people back to work. this is so important, especially today when we are voting on a house budget. really incredible debate on the house floor. our budgets are visions for the country. republica both of the budget get to

balance within a ten-year window. do all of that by putting americans back in charge of the government by getting washington out of the way. we balance the federal budget in the ten-year window without raising a dime in new taxes. important? it is important to contrast with the democrat budget. obama, five of the six-year he has missed the legal deadline to filing budget. -- two final a budget. -- to file a budget. he never missed a deadline. five of his six years as president missed the legal deadline to filing his budget. if you look at his budget you might see why he was ashamed to put it out there before the people. the priorities of

president obama and how they contrast? president obama actually calls a trillion dollars in new taxes on top of what erd pass in obamacare. the president says he wants to take more taxes out of the of the families. you would suggest maybe that is what he needs to get rebalance federal budget. maybe that is a priority. unfortunately, he never gets to balance. it is not a priority of president obama. he has made that clear. if you look at the debates we have here in washington, there are people on the liberal side of the aisle who say tax increases are what are needed to get the budget balance.

if you're not making money, the federal government will try to bill you out. this administration wants to go after you and punish you for your success. they say it is in the name of fiscal responsibility. when you look at your own budget, it proves the fact that higher taxes are not the answer to getting you to a balanced budget. higher taxes are the hallmark of president obama's budget. he never gets to balance, not in 10 or 20 or ever. in our budgets, we do not have a dime in new taxes. is zero dollars in new taxes. we both balance in the ten-year window. economic growth is what this country needs.

giving families more of their taxes back. that is what is going to get us back to prosperity for families who are struggling. budgets do layout those priorities. economic and our home state of louisiana. vote is going to cost louisiana families millions of dollars in new taxes. these policies have wrought impacts on families. that is why we are fighting to lower tax rate to put power back in the hands of all. thank you for the great work you do at atr. i look forward to continuing this fight. >> thank you. that is congressman steve gillies.

-- steve scalise. i mention the abuses ongoing in the investigation and the pushback by the american people and by congress. has andscussion that kicked off by a chairman of the ways and means committee, dave camp, congressman from michigan. he has taken the lead in drawing what the future can look like and how we move there. are going withwe tax extenders. if i can just say from a premarket perspective, the most make is toecision to maintain what is called bonus depreciation. all it really is is moving toward expensing. whoever called the bonus depreciation made it a mistake. actually less than full expensing which is where we ought to be on investment in the united states.

itntaining that an expanding to all investment is ultimately the right way to go. >> good morning. leadershipor all the that you provide. you have really helped us move this issue forward. there are a couple of things that americans are very concerned about. steve talked about some of them. we do not have the kind of growing economy that we really want to see. more kids are living at home than ever before. rather than starting out in their own livelihood and pursuing their own dreams. do have a lower worker participation rate than we had in the carter administration. people are not able to see the prosperity. incomes have been declining. the number one issue is jobs and

the economy. one way to adjust that is the comprehensive tax reform. country that really sees the dynamic growth in the revitalization of the american dream. many people feel the country is moving in the wrong direction. they do not think it will get any better. we have tried to have a code that really is progress. we do that by increasing standard deduction. that gets at the complexity of the tax code. how incredibly complicated our code is. it has put a wet blanket over the economic recovery. and 95% of people do not itemize, that means they will be filing a similar 1040. they will have less opportunity

for the irs to meddle in their affairs. it will be more straightforward. there will not be as much discretion in terms of the irs. there's probably nothing more frightening than having a letter in the mail and you home. we always come on friday night --and he always come on friday night, from the irs. we have an agency where there have been high-level officials to felt it was ok to target people based on their political elites. what is that? that is denying all their constitutional right to due process. matter.a serious the committee has been investigating this. if we had people that were forthcoming, we would not need to be going through line by line tens of thousands of pages of documents. i do not have all the e-mails and documents. i can assure you that we will be able to conclude this in a very expedited way.

and what we found so far really leaves me in the committee has not referred to the department of justice. the evidence we have uncovered that we believe there is reason to believe the lowest learner -- that lois lerner committed crimes. the key one is denying people their constitutional rights it is very important for the public to know this in the committee to vote this of the information will become public. behind theto hide american people not knowing would end. now we need to see whether he .ill hold theas a violation of potential release of confidential taxpayer information and really denying people the ability to express the constitutional rights.

these are all things that we felt needed to be looked at. looking for work we are the only country in the world that have the pieces that expire. we call those extended. we are looking forward a year. one of the things we're looking for is how we can take these extender packets. we continued telemarketing committee to see which ones make permanent.

it is really that uncertainty for people who are trying to plan on whether to build a plant or hire more people or even buy that piece of equipment. it makes a huge difference. i want to thank you for all of .he work that you do it really helps us as we continue to try to push these issues for it. thank you very much. thank you for your leadership. we are now joined i representative virginia foxx from north carolina. >> you probably should try to find out who it is you are going to follow.

imminent -- the preeminent x for in the area. most of us aspire to know just a knowsn of what dave camp about tax code and about budget and the issues we are dealing with. atr forant to thank what it does in educating the american people about the issues that we are facing. i talked a lot about the length of the tax code, 4 million words , and compared it to the bible. that is just the statute. when you add the 20 volumes and growing a regular and and the total comes in at well over or team million word, that is a lot

of words. the average american spends 13 hours to comply with our monstrous tax code. it really is a monstrosity. ofs includes reading pages rules, keeping receipts, gathering greco roots and often paying someone to do the rest. ipts and often paying someone to do the rest. would that we can't keep all of keep all --0 could of that in a productive economy. there are 200 pages it takes to explain just the 1040. it is bad enough that small business owners and those new to the workforce try to make sense of how the tax system applies to

them. now we learn that very likely some of those entrusted with enforcing the system in which a simple math air can devastate your budget likely weaponize the make life attempt to difficult for those they disagree with politically. this cannot be allowed to go unpunished. the tax code will never be popular. it should not be this complicated. it absolutely should not be partisan. it is genuinely puzzling to me that our colleagues across the aisle are not pursuing the irs with vigor. their entire vision of government requires massive bureaucracies to function. they should know the american people are unlikely to support a politicized bureaucracy. i support a simpler, fairer tax code. i want to thank atr for the work

that it does. i know we are going to miss dave camp and his expertise on the ways and means committee. i ain't you all for helping to is the word out about what happening here today. thank you very much. >> thank you. thank you. that several of the members have brought up on and some of the iraq, of our west on this cities the tax assessor is a political job and they punish people through the tax code who forget to contribute to the mayor. who thinksome people the abuses in the irs our politics as usual if you from chicago. they are not politics as usual at the national level.

we're joined by orrin hatch from utah, the ranking member of the senate committee on finance. and soon to be the chairman. orrin hatch. thanks, grover. i pre-should you being here today. this is an important discussion herehank you for being today. this is an important discussion. he fundamentally understands that the more we tax, the more government spends and the larger the government becomes. i have been really proud of you these years in standing so tall. we came here to celebrate tax day. let's face it. the clock ticks toward april

15. americans across the country are rushing to complete their tax returns. we all gonnual chore through. tax a reminds us all of how overly complex and burdensome the u.s. tax code really is. length,70,000 pages in our tax code is a labyrinth of red tape. it is counterproductive. it is stifling to american competitiveness. needlessly hassles individual americans and their families. we have not reformed our tax code in 28 years. it is a colossal mask. i know that dave camp is working hard over on the house side to overhaul the nation's broken code. he recently put forward a bold vision. for that he deserves tremendous credit. the goal of

remaking the tax code and getting this under control. it should be more efficient. competitive more for both our job quarters -- creators and middle-class families. any effort to advance comprehensive tax reform must not be turned into a revenue racing exercise. focus on spending reductions. it will be a real challenge to our friends on the other side of the aisle. ligety democrats in the house trying to push a budget that would hit the american people hike.1.5 trillion tax give me a break. we know that the democrats are hardwired to believe that the government money is not the people's money, it is their money. even the cbo has made it clear that we do not have a revenue problem in this country.

we have a spending problem. given today's $17.5 trillion exceeds our-- nations economic output. a lot of people do not realize that. we're just spending ourselves into bankruptcy. it is clear we have a debt problem in this country. with all of the talks about the redistribution of wealth and making sure the rich pay their share, or clock? squat toot going to do reignite our struggling economy to provide better jobs and bigger paychecks for american workers. if we're serious about taking on economic challenges facing our reforming then tax code, we need to rebuild a system that will spur economic growth, jumpstart job creation, and restore prosperity to the american people.

we've got to get to work. the near future we sell get to work on the sp matters. we have got to strain out this colossal mess. for you young people, your being put right down the drain. all the answers they have for this kind of bundling is "we need more taxes." be. may they are not going to solve our problems here it if you took every dime the so-called millionaires make it would not take care of the budget. find some way of creating jobs and getting this economy back on track. to that degree, i really appreciate what grover in the people who back him, and i am due to put his on the right track. sorry to take so long. orrin hatch from utah.

we are now joined by senator pat roberts of rum kansas who's a member of the senate finance committee and has been a leader on taxpayer issues for a number of years. senator roberts. >> thank you. good morning. anybody out there? good morning. let's try again. >> good morning. >> this is the first amendment rights. if this keeps up in the irs comes in here, you will not even be able to say good morning. good morning. >> good morning. >> good morning. i appreciate it. i made a personal vow. that says i amio a journalist. it means i am an unemployed newspaperman. we have the right to free speech. i made a personal vow, like many

house, toate and the keep pushing the administration until we understand the recent targetedhat have been conservative 501(c) fours. tuesday i took the opportunity to question the new commissioner . be on any shadow of doubt, let there be no shadow of doubt, the irs has been targeting conservative groups during the exams in the application process. it looks like it is doing it even as i speak. by the waysactions and means committee really confirms this. ways and means committee to the dedication to get to the bottom of this mess. is going on is a deliberate abuse of federal enforcement powers for purely political

purposes. they are changing the outcome of elections. when i go back home to the town hall meetings or when people come to my office, and invariably they will bring up the issues they are concerned about, there's always someone in the back who says "what about my free speech rights, what about the first amendment?" it takes a rather lengthy explanation. there are those of us that are committed to do that. that is why they are frustrated and concerned and angry. that is why they think the american they have grown up in and profited from it they want to lead to their kids and grandkids that they cannot even get up and say what is on their mind or take part in the political process. this is an attack.

to put the way we have it. it is an attack on the first amendment rights of our citizens are just because they dared to differ from this administration and the president. i cannot think of anything more going toible. i am not stand idly by when the administration tries to dodge and weave its way out of this. has beene commissioner a little crafty with his remarks. tuesday.e remarks last it is a verbal somersault to downgrade the problem. i specifically asked him whether he would put a stop to the regulations he has been detailed to implement, the regulations that would enshrine the stifling of free speech. inleast until we are done the ways and means committee.

at least until we are done in the finance committee. at any rate, he dodged. he ducked. he told us several times not to worry. these and not be finalized until after the election. what. oops. "until after the election." it with thist put being regards to political, i do not know what will. i'm not sure that is what he wanted to say. by telling me not to worry, it will not be dental after november. to control the battle space of the election. them to keep ducking and dodging.

we are offering legislation to stop the iressa from preceding the new rules until we have answers and we have finished our investigation. stop to this so we can preserve the rights of all citizens to engage in the political process. -- i deviated and i asked the new commissioner. i sit here is the deal. chickena fox in the coop. you know what they do. the are not only denying right to free speech to the chickens but they are away a lot of other things as well. what you are telling me is to not worry about it. we have investigations to determine how the fox got into the chicken coop. more importantly, how do we get the dam fox out of the chicken

two. he indicated not to worry. at least wait until the end of the investigation he should do with it anyway. he would not give me that commitment. he kept dodging around the issue. i said it the fox out of the damp kitchen coop. determine who put what in. i cannot tell you how much this affects people who will stop and think about this in terms of their free speech and their rights to free speech. firstody thinks amendment, newspapers, etc. members of the media, the press. .t is everybody, folks any group that wants to express

themselves in the political process. it is absolutely a sick to our rights. we are determined to do that. we had 40 sponsors. we're working on it. we had several covert democrats. if we ever got to a vote we could pass it. we are not giving up. i appreciate being here. and key. >> he makes the point that this administration does not have a lot of interest in the first amendment but they are conversing with the fifth amendment. they seem to understand it. the obama administration started off by saying i am outraged by the abuses in the irs. he is going to get to the bottom of the. then he decided he was not outraged anymore.

he wanted to codify into law a number of those so they would be legal to do. when hundred 50,000 americans -- 150 thousand americans sent in comments on the regulations. out a got pointed irs comments on this attack on the first amendment and all the other proposed regulations added together. most regulations are about taking more or less the people's money and more or less of their time. i would have thought that would have given many comments. it is a very healthy sign that people got more exercise at the irs for going after their free speech rights than their money

over the years. that i thought was extremely powerful by the american people as to what this about and their priority. >> i and executive director of digital liberty. i wanted to point to a narrow area tax policies. one of the things a lot of people do not know is that there is legislation that prevents them from taxing access to internet. it is just basic getting online. their watch legislation introduced to produce -- prevent states from doing that. there were a few states that had arty tax to the internet. that has been going on.

it has been three times since the internet tax freedom forever act has been reauthorized. we now have two bills, house and we also have the internet tax freedom forever act sponsored by widen in soon -- wyden and thune. it would not allow state to have been doing that to do such things. that is great for our economy and economic growth. it also prevents states from taxing sales that occur online or e-commerce differently from traditional market sales. that way they could not be taxed higher. it is important to keep this consistent. internetcess to the and to get to jobs and to

further themselves and the way we think is valuable, especially internet freedom. thank you. >> we are now joined by the center from kentucky, rand paul. i am glad to be here today to discuss a little of the problems we have and to associate myself with the americans for tax reform. for 20 years in kentucky i ran a group called kentucky taxpayers united and we were associated with the projects and policies for americans for tax reform. americans forhe tax or form. the think we need to remember about is on tax day is that we need to think about how taxes prevent us from creating jobs. right now we have a tax code

that scares jobs overseas. everyone moment jobs going overseas. but if you want them to stay at home you need to make money more welcome here. it leaves and goes to where it is welcome. have a corporate income tax of 35% i. we wonder why people are going overseas. he wanted to come home. it is not coming home at 35%. we have a bill to bring it home at 35%. taxes.n reduce we do not want revenue neutral tax reform. it is a waste of time. if you want jobs, you've got to lower the tax burden. we have also talked about economic freedom zones were below are it to economically depressed areas. if you want to fix poverty, lower taxes. today to to be here

associate myself with americans for tax reform and their push for reasonable taxes to help create more jobs. >> he was a leader of the kentucky taxpayer movement. by senator robed portman from ohio who also serves on the finance committee. >> and happy to be here at today -- i am happy to be here today. the president has already -- one $.6raised taxes trillion. he would like to raise them another $1.3 trillion. we have democrats would like to raise taxes above what they are.

and economy that is faltering. take-home pay is going on and yet they want to tax people more. they want to take it higher. the argument has made that we are somehow undertaxed. that is not true. one thing atr has done well is lay out the historical perspective here. a situation that without the tax increases they the burden on the economy will increase. want to raise them to reduce the deficit and debt. attack -- under under-taxes. d. we are spending too much. tax make it -- taxes make it harder for us to get this economy back on track. i am for tax reform.

this we sure when we do are not doing the out this it. we're spending too much. we had to get this under control first. >> thank you. thank you very much. we are talking about the tax reform. there are three sides to a triangle of actual ones. one is to take the tax rate down. ready five percent corporate at 15.s tax rates are

it is not where we want to be on tax policy. rate down. take the it is not good enough to go to 25%. we have about 4.8 or 5% state taxes. when you talk about american taxes, it was a lot more in california. we are competing with candidate 15 in europe with an average of 25. taking that radon is very important. we have long depreciation schedules. maybe a thousand pages of how we handle issues in terms of depreciation schedules. let's take these down to expensing so when you spend money to buy a piece of equipment you expensive that

year. the third one was just reference by rob portman and rand paul. that is going to a territorial system. if you earn money in france, we tax to on top of what the french did. we take some. you can take it back to france. that encourages reprieves she and -- reprieves shish and -- repratiation. introduce kevin brady. >> thank you. >> thanks very much for your leadership on limiting the size of government in creating a program of tax code.

the biggest problem facing our country is the federal government letting the arms our means. spending cuts fingers back to a balanced budget. we need a much longer economy. our broken tax code is a real on america's economy. it is too costly. it is unfair to america that we are no longer competitive around the world. that isa tax code simpler, fairer, flatter. there is a top to bottom rewrite. a discussion draft on progrowth tax code. it has some strong topline increasing economic growth by more than $3 trillion,

creating almost 2 million new jobs. simplifying code by about a quarter in allowing nine out of 10 americans to pfeil their taxes on the front and back of a piece of taper. it is a good, solid start. every day without to make it more progrowth. are having deeper discussions on tax reform than on the years i've been in congress here at it is long overdue. i am a strong supporter of lowering rates for families. i'm a strong supporter of cost recovery as well. it is important we get all of these elements right. i will conclude with this. you never had a love-hate relationship until you done tax reform. there is part of that draft that i love them part i hate. that is probably the case from

everybody who is working on it or looking at it. that is the point of tax reform, to have that discussion. unlike those who assembled the affordable care act in secrecy and passed it through congress, we took the opposite approach. we laid out a discussion draft for all of america to see and analyze and determine what is right and help to shape it in the future. we have taken the most important step in 30 years. we will work hard to advance tax reform at every step of the way. hoping the senate will join us and ultimately be president. whether they do or not, we are going to advance progrowth tax reform. thank you for your leadership on all of these issues. >> thank you.

we have talked about tax reform. we have talked about the abuses , bureaucrats and political appointees who brought the ethics of chicago to the irs were they do not belong. they jump along in chicago either. you cannot leave the iressa. .- the irs they will follow you. that needs to stay away from the internal revenue service and the laws that we all live in. there is a discussion going on in the 50 states. when you look at the states here, while there is gridlock in , the democrats. run the senate.

-- >> we're going to take you live to the rose garden of the rose garden where president obama about to announce a new secretary of human health and human services. live coverage here on c-span. [applause] >> hey. [applause] all right. everybody have a seat. good morning. >> good morning.

office, iixth year in am extraordinarily grateful to have so many aides and advisers who have in their since the you have been-- there since the earliest days. it is bittersweet when they leave for new endeavors even the successor is wonderful. kathleen sebelius told me she would be moving on want the first open enrollment period under the affordable care act came to an end. after five years of extraordinary service to our country, and a 7.5 million americans at signed up for health coverage -- [applause]

i will miss her advice. i will miss her friendship. i will miss her wit. i am proud to nominate someone you hold the same traits in abundance, sylvia matthews are burwell. just a couple of things about kathleen. when i nominated kathleen about five years ago, i gotten to know kathleen when she was governor in kansas and has shown extraordinary skills there, was a great advisor and supporter during my presidential campaign. i knew she was up for a tough job. i mentioned to her one of her many responsibilities at hhs is

to make sure they were ready for a pandemic lieu outbreak. i do not know at the time that it would literally be her first task. nobody remembers that now, but it was. it gives you a sense of the source of daily challenges that kathleen has handled often without fanfare. she has fought to improve children's health from birth to kindergarten, expanded maternal health care, reduced rachel -- racial and ethnic disparities, firstt us closer to the aids free generation. what kathleen will go down in history for its serving as the secretary of health and human services when the united states of america finally declared the quality affordable -- that

quality affordable health care is not a privilege but a right of every citizen in the united states of america. [applause] >> have been has been here through the long fight to pass the affordable care act. she helped guide the implementation even when it got rough. she has bombs. i have bombs. bruises. we did it because we knew of all the people that we have met all losts the country who have home and have put off care.

we've been families to solve the children suffer because of the uncertainty of health care. we are committed to get this done. that is what we have done. that is what kathleen has done. lost the first quarter of open enrollment with the problems with healthcare.gov. the were problems. her leadership her team turned the got it fixed, and the final score speaks for itself. most of it because of the woman standing here next to me today.

it is a historic accomplishment. [applause] >> in the meantime, alongside 7.5 million people being enrolled, health-care costs under kathleen's leadership are growing at their slowest rate in 50 years. folks keep saying, they're not doing anything about cost, except -- what do they mean? fromh records are moving dogeared paper to high-tech systems. with thepartnered department of justice to progressively pursue health care fraud and return billions of dollars, record sums for the medicare trust fund.

kathleen's work will benefit our families in this country for decades to come. we want to thank kathleen's husband, gary, first dude of kansas. two outstanding sons, ned and john, who have been willing to share their mom with us these past five years. kathleen, your dad served as governor of ohio and inspired you to pursue public service and he passed away last year. he would've been so proud of you today. we want to thank you once again for your service to our country. [applause]

>> now, we know there is still more work to do at hhs. to do tomore work implement the affordable care act, there's another enrollment there is ang up, whole array of responsibilities to meet over at this large and very important agency. i could choose no manager as experienced and confident as my current director of the office of management and budget, sylvia . [applause] sylvia is from a small town in

west virginia. thatrings the common sense you see in small towns. she brings the values of caring about your neighbor and ordinary folks to some of the biggest and most complex challenges of her time. she is a proven manager who has demonstrated her ability to feel the great teams, forge strong relationships, and deliver results at the highest level in the public and private sectors. o.o. and later president of global development at the gates foundation, she worked on the cutting edge of the world's most pressing health challenges. as head of the walmart foundation, she gained first-hand experience into how insurance markets work and how they can work better for businesses and families. here as my budget director at

the white house, she has already delivered results. in the years since she arrived, the deficit has plunged by more than $400 billion. i'm just saying. [laughter] [applause] when the government was forced to shut down last october and even as most of her own team was barred from reporting the work, handa was a rock, a steady on the wheel who helped navigate the country through very challenging time. once the government was allowed to reopen, sylvia was vital to winning the two-year budget agreement that put an end to these manufactured crises we have seen in washington so we can keep our full focus on growing the economy and creating new jobs and expanding opportunity for everybody who is seeking opportunity. helped while, she has advance important initiatives to bring the government into the

21st century, including efforts to speed up job creation by dramatically speeding up the permitting process for big infrastructure projects. andia is a proven manager, she knows how to deliver results. and she will need to be a proven manager, because these are tough tasks. from covering more families with economic security that health insurance provides to ensuring the safety of our food and drug supply to protecting the country from outbreaks or bioterror attacks, to keeping america at the forefront of job creating medical research, all of us rely on the dedicated servants and scientists, the researchers at hhs and the fda and cdc and nni h. all of them are in next ordinary team, and sometimes the american people take them for granted, the incredible network of outstanding public service that

we have that is helping to keep us healthy and improve our lives every single day. i want to thank stephen. husband, and matthew, and helene, for sharing wife and mom with us a little bit longer. you arounds seeing the white house, but i know you will do an outstanding job as america's secretary of health and human services. i hope the senate confirms sylvia without delay. she's going to do great. last time she was confirmed unanimously. i'm assuming not that much has changed since that time. with that, i want to give them both an opportunity to say a few words, starting with kathleen. [applause] thank you.

i want to start by thanking you, mr. president and mr. vice president, for giving me the opportunity of a lifetime to serve in this cabinet. i want to thank my hhs family, many of whom are here, at least the health leaders are here, for their incredible work. and my personal family, represented today by our oldest son ned. my husband gary is on the bench in kansas today, doing multiple hearings, which he does each and every day. our youngest son is inadequate or, but they are with us in spirit. -- in ecuador, but they are with us in spirit. is an amazing department, full of bright and talented and hard-working people who believe strongly in our important mission, providing health care and essential human services to all americans. inscribed on the walls of the humphrey building where your

office will be are the words of the namesake. hubert humphrey said, the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life -- the children -- those are who in the twilight of life -- the elderly -- and those who are in the shadow of life. do atescribes what we hhs. our employees help their friends and neighbors every day. the researcher is in nih labs and scientists working to improve new drugs and devices are helping change the face of humanity by advancing new cures, research, and innovation. we are advancing public health in the u.s. and around the globe, with anti-smoking efforts and child health. finally, behavioral health and physical health issues will be ofsidered both part

essential treatment, and that's a big step forward. our workers look out for a safe and secure food and drug supply in a global market. our smart diplomacy, sharing health expertise and advances, win the hearts and minds of nations across the globe. we have done transformational work in communities across this country. at any point in our history, that mission would be highly rewarding and some of the most important work anybody could do. had an additional amazing opportunity. no one has had this before. i got to be a leader of hhs during these most historic times. we are in the front lines of a long overdue national change, fixing a broken health system. this is the most meaningful work i have ever been a part of. it has been the cause of my

life. a reason that no earlier president was successful in passing health reform, despite decades of attempts. throughout the legislative battles, the supreme court challenge, contentious reelection and years of votes to turn back the clock, we are making progress, tremendous progress. critics and supporters alike are benefiting from this law. my professional work as a legislator and insurance commissioner and governor have been tremendously helpful in navigating the policy and politics of this historic change. at the end of the day, health is personal. it's personal to all of us. family illnesses and personal health challenges touch us to our core. i spent time as a daughter, navigating care for ill parents. as a mother and now grandmother,

i have experienced and worried about prenatal care and healthy babies. we have had family health challenges, as all of us have, and finding the right care can be difficult even with the best contacts and the right resources. the personal reward for me at the end of the day are the folks who approach me, the strangers who approach me at a meeting or pass me a note on a plane or hand me a phone with someone on the other end saying thank you. their stories are so heartening about finally feeling secure in knowing they can take care of themselves and their families. unfortunately, a page is missing. [laughter] just grateful for having had this wonderful opportunity. the president was in austin yesterday at the lbj library, commemorating 50 years in the civil rights efforts led by

lyndon johnson. 50 years ago, my father was part of that historic congress. he served in the congress with the passage of medicare and medicaid, with head start. those programs are now in the agency i have had the honor to lead. it seems like a wonderful passing of the baton. the affordable care act is the most significant social change in this country in that 50 year period of time. i'm so grateful to have had this opportunity. i appreciate all of the effort and support. i think my cabinet colleagues who are here on the front row, and not only are they here today, but they have been part of an all hands on deck effort making sure that seven and a half million people were able to sign up for affordable health care. thank you, mr. president. is a trustedylvia and valued friend, a great

partner. i know she will be a terrific leader for hhs. [applause] >> first i like to thank you, mr. president and mr. vice president for the trust you placed in me in my role at omb and your confidence in nominating me for this new role. kathleen'sonor accomplishments today, i also want to personally thank her for her support and friendship through this year. i want to express my heartfelt thanks to the team at the office of management and budget and to our congressional counterparts with whom i've had the privilege to work closely throughout this year. is an extraordinary

institution. it's a credit to the professionalism and commitment of omb's people that we have been able to meaningfully improve our nation's fiscal policy over the past year. i want to thank my family, especially my husband, stephen. i'm humbled and honored and excited for the opportunity to build on the achievement that kathleen, the president, and so many others have put in place. the senate, iy look forward to carrying on the important work of ensuring that children, families, and seniors have the building blocks of healthy and productive lives, whether it's through implementing the affordable care act, supporting affordable childcare, or finding new frontiers to prevent and treat disease. thank you, mr. president. [applause]

>> give these extraordinary women one more round of applause. thank you, sylvia and kathleen, for your service. [applause] >> there you see the president and vice president, the outgoing secretary of health and human services and the president's nominee walking back into the white house. it is cherry blossom season in washington, d.c. we want to know what you think your reaction is to today's news. you can see the numbers on your screen.

a couple of stories in the news on this announcement today. reportingngton post" that according to federal health officials, kathleen sebelius approach the president in early march and told him with the insurance enrollment period ending that month, the time had come for new leadership at hhs, the government's largest domestic agency. the white house official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations said that sebelius told the president she felt confident in the trajectory for enrollment. we want to know what you think on facebook. your comments there. let's start out with michigan, calling. what do you think? housing going today? --

how's it going today? >> hello? we will move onto another caller. the affordable care act will be here when everyone listening passes away. it needs to be improved. it needs to be in some spots fixed. party tohe republican do everything imaginable, imaginable, republicans are on their road to either total extinction or, if

they are smart -- and the theylican party is not -- will have to simply change their name. the word republican is slowly "n" wordnto the newest . >> we will move on to gainesville, texas. you see the secretary greeting some folks there. hello. the only comment i would make is that it seems this came pretty abruptly. [inaudible] beforery sebelius off

the election, to eliminate the baggage of the impact that aca will have on our health care, particularly rates we are going to be paying. that it seemedg like it happened out of nowhere, unless i'm unaware of some suggestion that she was going to be resigning. "> the "washington post reporting that secretary sebelius approach the president in march read -- march. hi there. sebelius, she could not even resign right. she's missing some of her speech. that's the democrats for you. thank you. >> all right, from georgia, you are on c-span. to knowi want everybody

that i think ms. kathleen has done a wonderful job. went through a lot of trials and everything else, but she came through for all of us and as far as the democrats, they're doing a good job and she is showing what a democrat can do. they just told through everything. we are getting your reaction to the resignation of kathleen the nomination or soon-to-be nomination of the omb director lew to take her place -- director to take her place. a caller from los angeles. is that oncencern again, the secretary of health and human services is not an md or nurse. there has not been one since louis sullivan, who was under the bush administration. the problems in president obama's plan and this whole

country's plan in health care is directly related to the lack of md and rn leadership in these important decisions. what the problem was with the affordable care act. there were not enough physicians in the planning. i'm sure she's a confident, wonderful woman, but managing finance is not taking care of 360 million americans. it is a very unfortunate choice with respect to that. i have to put the responsibility at the leadership in health care , who does not fight for us to have an m.d. or rn at the top. if a non-lawyer was appointed to the attorney general position, there would be outrage in this country. we have become passive and except the people leading health care do not come from health-care life experience and

do not have the lifetime of knowledge needed to run this incredible branch properly. i hope the next secretary when appointed is an m.d. or rn. theou can see that is sylvia mathews, talking there in the rose garden. says, she's judy probably sick and tired of being bullied. she sure had to put up with nastiness. obamale writes, president used her to implement his disaster health care law but does not recognize her. he's a bad leader. let's go to george in west virginia. i agree with the last caller 100%. mrs. sebelius probably saw the .riting on the wall,

she's being held in contempt now. mrs. sebelius probably got shook up on all the hearings she went through and did not tell mostly all the truth and everything. i think she sees the writing on the wall because she might be called up again and be held on contempt and go to jail, just like the other lady might be going to jail. >> you are on c-span. caller: i think kathleen sebelius is resigning because she was bullied very much. i felt sorry for her, because she took her advice from the top, that's all. it was the top guy that gave her the orders, and she had to say what they wanted her to say. i think obama care is a waste of time.

it was only passed by democrats. she's doing the right thing. alexandria? hello? [indiscernible] i think she did a good job. she does not need to be an m.d. or rn. where thea state governor is taking the program and tried to restore it [indiscernible] closing hospitals and not taking the funds for the program. i think we will be in deep trouble. the country as a whole will probably be much better based on having everyone available to have health care. i think mrs. sebelius will go

as one who did a great job. >> you see a bit of a replay on your screen of the event that place 15 minutes or so ago in the white house rose garden. some of the members of cabinet you may have seen, secretary of state john kerry among others. hi, you are on c-span. i would like to make thestatemg to protects there those in the dawn of life in the twilight of life and in the shadow of life. herrneath her reign, current department put out a publication stating that pregnancy itself was actually a disease and because of the disease, it needed to be handled by the hhs mandate as such. i do not see it is protecting those in the dawn of life.

her department has also authorized and had supported euthanasia, which does not seem to be protecting the twilight of life either. futureing that in the this new one coming in will actually do what the hhs mandate is there to do, and not to go against what it was actually made for. >> some more comments from you on facebook. jane says, i felt sorry for sebelius. there you see our facebook address. you thereear from anytime. let's go to chris in long beach, california. maybe it's time for some

new, young blood in office. [indiscernible] let's go to las vegas. i want to make a comment in reference to the affordable care act. all of the discussion about the affordable care act is moot. it has been passed by congress. no need to talk about the validity of it. it is law now. ien it comes to sebelius, think she has done a wonderful job. or not the person holding that office needs to be an m.d. or nurse, i disagree with that totally.

what they need to be is an excellent administrator. you don't have to be an m.d. or nurse to fulfill that obligation. >> thanks. we will squeeze in a couple more calls here. new work, new jersey. -- newark, new jersey. bertha, are you here? looking at the tv set, i'm happy that our countries able to stand together like we should be as the united states of america. i think we're moving forth in a positive position. is done for our elderly, and especially for a woman.ing she is moving on and passing the torch to someone who is younger and can carry us even further. it's a good thing we are moving forth.

let's talk about the negative criticism. we will never achieve if we don't start believing in who we are as americans. >> we have time for one more this time around. tyrone from philadelphia. i would just like to say that i think sebelius has done a wonderful job. it's a disgrace that we are a nation that is falling apart because of the racial implications to the president and a health care law that gives something to young people, give something to old people. i'm a senior, and has helped me. and i have good insurance. it has helped me and brought my insurance down. i'm saying, what is wrong with us? what has happened to america? is this a nation we are? we do not want to see people with health insurance? we are worried about the legacy of this president, that he put this through?

about how theyd can stop this president from going in history as being able to give americans health care. and i thank you, sir. >> your comments are welcome anytime on facebook. you can let us know what you think. we have a video library, if you would like to see the hearings that secretary sibelius took heart in. we willp in 30 minutes, be live again with first lady at a white house event supporting military and veteran caregivers. also participating, elizabeth dole and rosalyn carter. we will have live coverage right here on c-span at 12:00 noon. assembled today in federal hall. we are reminded of the ones who served before us, and those who served first. it's a humbling experience to

stand on the site where the first congress met, where the wherepresident was sworn, the bill of rights was introduced. every member of the house and senate and every citizen of this country can draw a straight line from the events in federal hall to the life we all know today. ,hen congress convened here america was a nation of scarcely 4 million souls. the tallest structure in the city was trinity church, which still stands at broadway and wall street. that firstl of congress included signers of the declaration of independence and men who had marched in george washington's army. virginiaeman from still in their 30's served in the congress, madison and munro. all the members knew that great responsibilities had come to them. the vice president john adams had preserved, the trust of the greatest magnitude is assigned

to this legislature and the eyes of the world are upon you. the members of the first congress met that test. although the city was the nation's capital for a short time, from those early days, the eyes of the world have continued to be on new york. ago, this great center of history, enterprise and creativity suffered the gravest of cruelties and showed itself to be a place of valor and generosity and grace. many innocent lives were suddenly taken, the world saw acts of kindness and heroism that will be remembered forever. when president bush introduced mayor giuliani and governor pataki at the joint session last september, it was as if the members of congress had recognized these two men had come directly off the battlefield. today congress gathers near that

battlefield to honor the character shown and the courage shown in new york these last 360 days, and to remember every innocent life taken in the attacks of september 11. >> find more highlights from 35 years of house floor coverage on our facebook page. c-span, created by america's cable companies 35 years ago and brought to you today as a public service by your local cable or satellite provider. coming up at 12:00 noon eastern, we will be live back at the white house with first lady michelle obama. until then, a portion of this morning's "washington journal." malcolm,st is john senior legal fellow of the heritage foundation. host: the house oversight and government or from committee voted to hold the person and

contempt. guest: it was a straight partyline vote. ms. lerner who was at the irs , she is atr of years the middle of this scandal involving the targeting of conservative organizations who would apply for tax exempt status. she has appeared a couple of times in front of congress. she asserted her fifth amendment right. the other time, she gave a statement about her background. she then vociferously proclaimed her innocence. and then she asserted her fifth amendment right. the position taken that by asserting her innocence and making certain statements, that she had waived her right to refuse to answer questions. another thing that happened is that her own attorney, who is

seasoned council, made statements that ms. lerner has given extensive statements to the u.s. government in connection with this investigation, and it is the house majority's opinion that by making those statements to the government, at least with respect to the statement she made to the government, she has to answer questions about that. explain how we got to this point. there is an oversight investigation into alleged wrongdoing at the irs. that aegations are number of conservative organizations applied for tax exempt status either under or 501(c) four3) of the irs code, which is for social welfare organizations, and that they were singled out of progressive or 912

project, and they were subject to extra scrutiny. all sorts of information of an intrusive nature was required to be produced by these organizations, with the idea of delaying their applications. confidential tax information from conservative organizations was leaked to certain liberal organizations that published that information. center of was at the the storm by being in charge of the organization that affected the irs that was doing this would like to get questions answered from her. host: there'll issa talked about this action yesterday and said it is not one that he takes lightly. let's see what he had to say. [video clip] convened aittee has

business meeting to consider a resolution recommending contempt of congress for a farmer i amrs -- former irs executive, mrs. lerner. for almost a year since lois lerner leaked information from the inspector general's report, the committee has been trying to get to the bottom of irs targeting. lerner's testimony to complete our oversight work, to bring the truth to the american people. why did she do certain things, and who else was involved. it is important to review how we arrived at this resolution today. ms. lerner appeared before this committee last may and made an entirely voluntary opening statement in which she professed her innocence. said she did nothing wrong, broke no laws, and did not

violate any irs rules. oath, widender ranging claims of innocence, ms. lerner answered some additional -- ms.ns, then refused lerner asserted her fifth amendment right, then answered some additional questions after asserting the fifth. host: tell us what we heard there. lerner appeared a couple of times before this committee, and on one of those occasions, she, rather than coming in and saying i decline , she madequestions voluntary statements and then answered certain questions. if you were in a criminal or and you told your

the of the story to subject veracity of that statement to the crucible of cross examination -- no, i told my side of the story, i'm going to refuse to answer those questions, a court would say, you have waived the privilege. whether she made enough statements to waive the privilege is something a court will determine. she has provided statements to the department of justice, and into certain laws that apply to the federal courts here in d.c. guest: if you like to join our conversation -- host: if you would like to join our conversation, the numbers are on your screen. the first caller for the segment comes from houston, texas.

i looked at all of the coverage on c-span yesterday. the a shame the way republicans -- i won't say senators, but congressman treat the witnesses. i don't blame ms. lerner. i would not appear before them at all. her appearance with the justice department is something entirely different. to go to the justice department and make her case, that is one thing. thoseear before all of congressmen, who have already decided that she's guilty, and to assert her fifth amendment right, that is right.

all she said was that she had not broken any laws. i saw that portion. i do not think that in itself bars her fifth amendment right. guest: i certainly respect the opinion of the caller. much choicehave about appearing before congress. she had been subpoenaed. you cannot refuse to appear before congress because you think you will be treated rudely. it is true that congressmen sometimes do treat witnesses rudely on both sides of the political aisle. reason not tot a appear in front of the committee . the committee is entitled to ask you questions. you are entitled to invoke your right against self-incrimination if you believe the statements you're going to make might incriminate you.

what you are not entitled to do is to give your side of the then refused to answer questions that would test the veracity of your side of the story. with respect to going to the department of justice, here's why that is significant. you can assert your fifth amendment privilege if you think it might incriminate you with respect to criminal wrongdoing. it's the department of justice that actually prosecutes people for criminal wrongdoing. if he or your going to assert your fifth amendment right, doing it before the department of justice is the place where you would do that. if she has either been granted immunity of some sort so that her statements cannot be used against her or she has waived her fifth amendment privilege by providing voluntary statements through the department of justice, under d.c. circuit law, she has waived the privilege with respect to the breadth of

the statements that the government already knows came out of her mouth. she would only be able to assert the privilege and any additional statements -- if any additional statements would incriminate her. in this case she admitted she had spoken to the government and has refused to provide any information to the committee, including the information she has already voluntarily or otherwise provided to the government, and which could conceivably be used as a basis for prosecuting her. host: john malcolm, what could her punishment be? guest: what is happened at the moment is there is a voting of this committee. the contempt citation will the decided by the full house. if the full house votes to hold her in contempt, then a referral will be made to the department of justice seeking to have her tried for criminal intent by refusing to answer these questions. that has happened. it has happened, but it is rare.

if she's is convicted it is a misdemeanor offense, and she could conceivably go to prison for up to a year. if the department of justice refuses to do that, then the house could hire its own attorneys and try to go to court and get her help in civil contempt. if she's held in civil contempt, then a judge could conceivably put her in jail until she purges herself of the contempt by agreeing to testify. host: also on thursday, we heard from the ranking member of the house oversight committee. let's take a look into that. [video clip] >> i would like to be clear. i really would love to hear testimony. i would love to hear even some of the answers to the things that my good friend mr. gaudi presented. they are legitimate questions, questions that will allow this

committee to do its work most effectively and efficiently. i think we all deserve to hear those answers. there comes a point in time when certain things trump other things. in this instance, the idea that there are rights that one can research not to incriminate to incriminate oneself, i think we have to deal with that first. as i said in my opening statement, it is not about -- is bigger than us. it is bigger than this moment, it is bigger than ms. lerner. host: john malcolm, your thoughts.

guest: we do have constitutional rights. they are there for very important reasons. however, as with all of our constitutional rights, one can waive them. so the question becomes whether ms. lerner, either by purchasing her innocence before the house committee or to the statements that she gave to the department of justice, whether she has waived them or not, that is a legal question. there is a genuine disagreement, it seems, assuming the person -- partisan politics -- we will see what a court of law has to say about it. i don't think his comments are frivolous. host: zach is online for republicans. caller: i have a couple of quick questions and comments. i was a democrat back in the

1980's and then i became a republican. what really concerns me is i am of the moderate side of the republican party. i am kind of horrified at what the republican party is doing and it is absolutely making me rethink where i stand. i'm thinking of becoming independent. the actual polarization in this action. [indiscernible] you are talking constitutional rights. we are talking about this issue with lois lerner. honestly, i understand that everybody has a right to free speech. but as to the actual law that was written, the supreme court altered the verbiage of the law.

[inaudible] have been broken with the republicans and the democrats using outside groups. we are wasting time and wasting money rather than working towards real problems in this country, concerning unemployment, concerning the major issues that face our country today. host: your take. guest: the irs is a very powerful organization that has the potential to be very intrusive into our lives. clearly through its actions or inactions chill freedom of association, freedom of speech,

some fear the irs for good reasons. i worked at a law form -- law firm with randolph thrower who was commissioner of the iris from 1969 to 1971. when the nixon white house contacted the irs and said, look, we want the tax returns of people who are our enemies, people we want to look at, randolph thrower has the fortitude to say, no, i am not going to give you that information. it is being done for political purposes. he got fired by john ehrlichman for that. and when articles of impeachment were drawn up against president nixon, one of the articles was that he attempted to get information to go against political enemies at the irs. that is what we are talking about here.

so the allegations are that after the citizens united of 2010, the democrats were very upset. corporations could now spend in political campaigns and they could contribute to 501(c)4 organizations that participate in political activity. and this was a partisan attempt to stop conservative social welfare organizations from engaging in this activity because they view them as a threat politically and to the president's reelection efforts. that imposes on our right of freedom to association, freedom of speech, administering very powerful laws in a partisan fashion. that is at least the allegations that this commission to investigate. -- committee is tryin tg to investigate.

the nsa and unemployment rate are very important issues. this is as well. host: next caller is ronnie for democrats. caller: first let me make a statement. from what i understand, these tea party groups who were just formed in 2008, why were these groups not supposed to be investigated by the irs? why are they just supposed to be automatically be given the 501(c)4 or that any investigation? that seems hypocritical. you can investigate democratic parties, but not these? i would like to hear your answer on that. guest: 501(c)4 organizations are social organizations that are allowed to participate in political activities along is that is not there main purpose.

there are tea party organizations. there is the sierra club and the a.c.l.u. and organizations on the left that are 501(c)4 organizations. that means that the money they receive is not considered income by the organizations that receive them. indeed, these organizations should be scrutinized when it is appropriate to do so. the allegations is that the irs was pushing through all of the applications by the left-leaning social welfare organizations but was putting the stoplight asking all kinds of intrusive questions about training material, membership lists, issues that they espouse and were denying

applications in an improper -- in an improper partisan manner. host: let's go to e-mail now. guest: the answer to that is maybe. if you think that the answers you are going to give might incriminate you and involve you in an investigation of criminal wrongdoing, it is your right and it is an absolute right and it is yours to assert your fifth amendment privilege. that is a constitutional right that we all enjoyed and it is a chair strike and should be upheld. -- cherished right and should be upheld. if on the other hand you decide

to assert a frivolously or if you have waived that privilege, then it would be an improper invocation. host: our next caller comes from michigan. caller: i am all for this lois lerner as far as her getting investigated. she shouldn't have to take the fifth and the millions of dollars that it will cost -- go back to taxpayers. if you go back to the previous when you guys are talking about, syllabus having retired over obamacare and everything, i want -- i watched c-span yesterday and they are asking for $21.2 billion to help other countries . we have a lot of organizations in the united states that have to go through, like salvation army -- host: do you have a question about lois lerner this morning?

caller: right, i think she should be prosecuted. guest: i was a prosecutor for 10 years in my career. i have a lot of respect for federal prosecutors, for the department of justice and i certainly hope the facts do come out. and if people have broken the law, the people are prosecuted to the full extent of those laws. host: max is on the line for republicans. caller: he stated that he was asked by constituents to investigate true to the vote for some reason. he denied the chairman any knowledge of its investigation -- of his investigation. we find out yesterday that there is e-mails that stated that he

was investigating information from irs and he came back and stated that he was only looking for public information. but a lot of the documents that were redacted. he also wanted to bring out all the documentation on interviews. i wonder if he included the information he received from the irs to see if it was public or if there was private information he wasn't privy to. also, we got to make the investigation open, all the information, all of peoples testimonies. that gives a heads up to everybody that they are investigating. there are still a lot more witnesses that they still have to question. guest: i am delighted to see

congressman cummings said that he is interested in these questions. earlier in these proceedings, he had called it case closed. the true to vote organization is an organization founded by catherine engelbrecht who was very upset at voter fraud. so her organization has been involved in trying to protect voter integrity, purging rolls of people were convicted felons or moved onto other states, who have been deceased, and is also advocating for voter id laws. voter id laws are somewhat controversial. some people view them as necessary to voter integrity and others believe voter id laws are an attempt to suppress the votes of minority organizations. so she applied for 501(c)4 status for true the vote and

received a whole slew of letters from the irs asking for incredibly detailed and intrusive information that no 501(c)4 organization in the past had ever been asked to disclose. what is involved with congressman cummings are two things. in 2012, ms. engelbrecht received a series of letters from the irs asking for increasingly more and more and more information. and fairly closely on the heels of those letters which asked for the on information on the software they use, the training that they get to people, the vendors that they use, ms. engelbrecht also received three letters on different occasions from congressman cummings asking for very, very similar, if not identical information. cueto mitchell, an attorney that represents true the vote had a hearing this past february who said that it seems more than coincidence up to her and she

would get to the bottom of this. and ms. engelbrecht has filed ethics charges against congressman cummings. the similarity between the request being made by the irs and being made by congressman cummings and said, gee, maybe there is some improper coordination going on between the irs and congressman cummings staff. there is no question in january of 2003rd scene he did contact the irs. did requested. is provided by a deputy of lois lerner.