what the affordable health care act would do, it is the absence of speaking the truth about where we are. >> where are we? >> we are now at a standard of living the same as what we had in 1988. we now have per family unfunded >> that needs to be spoken. the biggest problem i see with -- is the did now denial of reality. you can be a good person and deny reality. we all deny reality in some sense. we don't want to face them. the fact is, we haven't had the leadership in this country in a long time. i am talking presidential and congressional.

about the situation we find ourselves in. you can debate what caused it. i have my ideas. >> senator coburn on his career and reasons for his retirement, sunday night at 8:00. >> next, greenhouse gas emissions and epa regulations. a discussion hosted by the bipartisan policy center. the impact of new regulations on consumers and businesses. they talked for about an hour. >> that was very interesting. we have another panel. the

the bipartisan policy center is a city where there is partisan gridlock. this is an extraordinarily good place to be having these discussions. the reason this is quite full is twofold. in most cases in this town, the question is weather. whether they will do immigration, whether this, whether that. that is not the issue here. you just solve the epa administrator. the answer is yes. the question is how. how will it be done. there is considerable uncertainty around that. that is what board require a crowd to gather what it is being discussed. it is not the case that this is the first page of the novel how

this gets down. there is work in this area being done in the states for a long time. we have gathered three officials here today in states they're doing a lot of interesting in the center. jacobs.have libby resumes ontensive all of them. sufficient to say, they have spent a great deal of time in public service. they have very accomplished careers. i hope you get a chance to read into that as well. it is interesting to sit and ,isten to jason asked questions

when it was 30 minutes in before the two words federally enforceable were used. up until that time it was like tourism. this is going to be a controversial area. jason asked important questions. but me ask the question for the panel. the obvious one. epa are your hopes for the ru;lle when it is done? what are you expecting in line with the things you have done? >> i will start with that. i think, first of all, think you for being here. thank you for your continuing dialogue on this important topic. a special thank you to the epa. they have done a lot.

think we do need to take time and thank them. it is impressive to do that kind of outrage. what am i looking for? from -- if you have any sense of the unit and yang, that sums it up. we are hoping for flexibility. ,nderstanding that as we heard every state approaches this differently. every state is somewhere different on the continuum. we have to have flexibility to acknowledge that. the other piece that is important is time. standards these are that are going to be set at the federal level doesn't mean in the blink of an eye we can get everything approved at the state level. all of you know how slow it takes to get the rings -- did

things through the legislative process. the fastest route is 9-10 months. those are the kinds of things. it depends if it is an election year or not. the flexibility, and the tightening that is going to be critical for each of the states. there a things we have to implement double choir changes require changes. >> i want to mention, if you have questions, write them on a card and make sure you raise your hand. someone will gather them. i want this panel to have questions from the audience. thank you. the thankke to echo you to the bipartisan policy center for convening this form. and, to the epa for the listening sessions we have been engaged in.

we will continue to go forward as for the comets will suggest. the proof is in the pudding. we are waiting for the details to see how things will go forward. libbythe lines of what jacobs said, we are focused on the need for flexibility, allowing the states to develop extended compliance deadlines as necessary. there needs to be recognition that not everybody is coming from the same place. not every state. i would like to think that michigan is fairly well-positioned. we have been doing some of this ago.10 or more years considering things such as greenhouse gases, putting in have programs that we find been tremendously successful.

we also have an aging generation. thats been recognized michigan is potentially going to be capacity short around the time that these rules are expected to go into place. the challenges are significant. startingcognition that in the same place, and developing flexibility to develop the plans, perhaps something along the lines of a three-year horizon for developing, would be tremendously helpful. going to seee consistent theme over the course of the day. i'm from new jersey. it is different. we do need flexibility. was a regulator.

traded that she knows the difference. i am most concerned about my state and the impact. i took this job 12 years ago because of climate change. i was an economic regulator for 10 years. i took this job 12 years ago. i am happy with how the epa is working with the states. jersey, forike new 20 years we have been cutting back different initiatives. other emissions. i don't think new jersey will have much of an impact.

cut back.amatically based on the requirements of the clean air act, we shut down for time. hopeful most of that will remain for quite a while. the administration is pushing hard for new natural gas clans. two percent of electricity capacity is sober. a 20% reduction of carbon by 2020. now it is at 17%. new jersey is far along.

it has been done over the last i don't know how many years. >> all three of these states are states that have taken early action. it leads to the question, what do you think is going to happen with respect to early action? >> we would like to see recognition. that is one of the key tenants of where the states are coming from. michigan, as i mentioned, we started taking a serious look at ,he context of our needs recognizing our aging generation fleet. also in terms of investment and development of a dozen years ago. policies thate .re tremendously successful

we reduced our greenhouse gas emissions by over 15%. ,he programs we have in place which we call energy , it has aon compounding effect. we are seeing additional benefits on an annual basis. we are meeting those standards ahead of time. with theen involved model we have on those standards , we anticipated greater cost and a much more difficult challenge of reaching these goals. every energy provider in our state is in compliance. we anticipate they all will be when the horizon meets those standards in place. we would like to see some recognition for those projects.

>> i want jean and libby to answer the question as well. and measuringng co2 reduction from insisting -- from existing programs. >> that is a controversial issue. the tools we have been using, there have been question as to how accurate those are. measurement and evaluation tools. they are up to challenge. but, based on what we have available, we feel confident. trackingrsey has been since 1998 all omissions. it now includes carbon.

it has to be at least 8-10 years now. we're pretty confident about that our utilities. companies have generations. >> your tracking is with another department as well. >> yes. i was in the same scenario. the i would apartment natural resources does track. it started tracking several years ago. specific by utility as well. about earlyquestion action, it wouldn't be a form on epa or iowa without mentioning wind. wind is a huge driver in iowa.

action. hope for early an example, in 2000 we had a little over 237 megawatts of wind in the state. 5100.2, next year, an additional 1050 megawatts of wind. we would like credit for some of that. i am not sure that same kind of growth is going to go forward. at the same time the carbon intensity from intellectual coal generation has gone down. .n 2000 it was over 2200 pounds in 2012 it was 1700. we are seeing that just the policies are tremendous. wind isn't bipartisan in iowa. everybody embraces it. it doesn't matter if you are rural or urban. you get everything from an

associate degree -- this is an economic driver. it is an environmental energy driver as well. we would like to have a lot of credit for that, obviously. >> if i could just quickly clarify the number, more than 15%. sectors that we are tracking as well. >> i expect action from the epa just because many states haven' t taken action for the last 15 years. so, questioning how is tricky.

you, we haveof three states are presented on this stage, all of whom would've taken significant -- you were adjusting -- you were boasting ind.t whe we are born leading to the northwest. in circumstances where you have that much early investment, if the epa would decide we have to develop a baseline to this that is somewhat reasonable, and we are not going to get credit for these works that are done, what is that going to do to individual states? >> we would be disappointed. that goes without saying. you bring up regional

cooperation. that is another key to the success that could possibly happen. a lot of states have been talking. there are all sorts of meetings that have been going on. tried to come up with a regional approach. when we heard from the epa, regional is something that is on their radar. the more we can talk about this issue, regional, the better off we will be. >> let's assume it is not usury. all 50 states are there. tell us what the mosaic is like there some are states and say, what is she? -- what issue? we don't expect all this to

happen. are there some states in that position? how sick is that? seeing a all of them clean energy technology as him and that is beneficial. it creates jobs. it is good for the economy. clean air is and just carbon emission. there are other issues. definitely some the double even as i do that humans had anything to do with climate change. i think the science is clearly there. people won't hear that. wind, in texas. it's a big issue. it's a lot of jobs. it produces a lot of electricity for them. >> it is interesting. .t almost is a blank slate

the upa minister today in response to jason was thoughtful about their willingness to find a way to work with individual states to make this a success. that at the end of the day, most of the states will be working alone? what is your sense of that? >> that was interesting. regulators were together. today there are a number of economic regulators who were environmental regulators in the states. they are very active.

regions work together closely. they have narrowed it before. they have nine different regions. there is a number of different regions. this is one of the issues that most are working on. >> is iowa involved? >> certainly. in parts of the country, michigan is a good example. we are part of regional organizations. michigan is in both the and the rto. we are also involved with midwest power sector the onlytive's, which

criticism i have is that there is not enough states involved. we would love to get iowa, indiana, ohio in their as well. spending a lotre of time working with our colleagues and our counterparts we do have to focus on our state . one of the things that i would epa is theyr to the have to recognize that whatever these rules in doing, they cannot but one region at a disadvantage over another. not everybody is coming from the same place. there will be challenges along those lines. it is important those rules

recognize that. i see a combination of efforts we are undertaking at the state level, along with the cooperative work at the regional level. >> they have routine meetings for the last couple of years. , thatate air regulators is done on a fairly regular basis. >> it puts a lot of responsibility in the lap of the regulators. it indicates that you have a responsibility to coordinate with other state agencies. are the governors of the three ?tates are actively involved

if we had them on the stage with a be the person? this is not just about you. have other that you state agencies involved. >> we been meeting with the governor's office, the department of natural resources on a regular basis. we do every other month conference call. already had ongoing meetings with the utilities board and the department of up a notchources, we . transition 101. the concept of what reliability is and how this works. as jean was talking about.

we try to bring individuals along. governorsstern association has conversations as well. >> if i could, it is my understanding i'm a substitute for governor snyder who was invited and couldn't attend. absolutely, governor granholm put in a lot of the policies , and governorace snyder has picked up on those. we have been undergoing a review process in 2013. continue with the idea that we will take a hard look at what we can do to expand those policies in the 2015 time frame. i absolutely give governor granholm, governor snyder a lot of credit for recognizing the value of these initiatives, and

sing them as an opportunity not only for good environment to policy, but for good economic policy as well. >> while i am a democrat governor christie is not, we have a requirement for 30 years to have an energy master plan. the head of the utility commission is the chair of that. we had a change in the economy at the end of 2008. it takes and consideration all that. -- juster plan recently, a proposal for resiliency back in new jersey. that is being discussed broadly ,round the state, which would based on the extreme weather events, focus on critical areas in the state joining us.

>> what are the chances in new jersey will reengage and reggie? [laughter] interesting. new jersey is an environmental state. ofer the economic collapse 2008, the recession, the governor pulled out the reggie about four years ago. the rationale was that it wasn't really doing its job. the legislature has been trying to get them back into reggie. i don't see that happening. >> i want to ask about the nrdc, when they talked

about new rate designs that break the link between cost .ecovery and commodity sales what is your sense of that? ,> i was just at a meeting where there was a discussion about that. the world of electricity generation is changing. natural gas has had a lot to do with that. people in new jersey and new university, some of the other state universities, they went green. they are inverters now. resiliency proposal butd have micro-grids,

princeton kept the major structures going. that is the type of thing that i think people are focusing on in new jersey. >> i was going to say the old , necessity is the mother of invention. we are seeing such a tremendous , beingin this industry driven only by the resource needs and availability, but by the technological developments. gene mention micro-grace. there are so many things that are happening. review.cessitating that taking a look at how we incentivize and ensure reliability and affordability in the power sector. encouraged by the initiative . we'll be engaged. i don't want to throw out a

blanket endorsement. it is him and think about a lot. -- it is something we think about a lot. >> a question from the audience. iowa has an open docket on this to better -- on distributor generation compliance plans. >> thank you for that. we opened up an inquiry. the timing was interesting for a couple of reasons. we did have and i on the conversations. we wanted to try to have all the players in the room. this isn't just energy and environment. we are bringing in the cities and the counties. everybody under the sun to talk about it. we want to be able to help craft policy that makes sense.

if there's a regulatory site, there is a business model sites, there is a legislative site. thatre most concerned there will be patchwork approaches. we think it is an opportune time as we look at what we can mean -- what may be coming down the line to get the all industry on all levels engaged in conversation. we would anticipate we have had one round of comments. then offering up some sort of report them indicate legislative rulemaking. on, they have helped the together the critical consumer issues forum. chicago, 17-18 consumer advocates. maybe 20 utility people. i can't tell you exactly what we talked about. -- on the other hand

>> give us a hint. -- just b did in energy to be to energy resources. what was exciting was there was a lot of consent. -- they are working with the states on this. it wasn't just new jersey type of states. there was wyoming. very diverse groups. different ways of people. wish, wouldd your you expect and hope that the epa rule will allow credit for reduction outside of par production? do you expect that? >> i haven't asked the epa about

that. i expect that to be the case. >> that is a critical component of where we can see reductions. , thee low hanging fruit energy efficiency hanging side. we have picked some of that fruit. we are not looking hard at the multiyear initiatives. some of the deeper investments. i think it is critical that we look at those areas when we are talking about it. >> they went way beyond reggie. they take in the carbon. the whole the carbon. it is critical. i knew the energy master plan. those type of things are critical. ask, are there

tensions at the state level between those who regulate air, and those who regulate power? in many areas, they are in different agencies. i assume those that have been involved in the air study environment, they been the people involved in the discussion. all of a sudden, you're the kingpins. does that give rise to tension? logical tensions, because we are charged with a different approach. we have already worked with the department of natural resources. we will have a meeting set up in july to talk about next steps. how do we help with the information that might be needed. i would say our air policy is more nervous.

at our point we have good open dialogue. check with the back of the end of july. at this point it is good. we are trying to focus on what is right for our state. , on the contrary, we are working closely with air regulators. i mentioned the midwest. that is a collaborative of the air regulators and the public utilities commissions. they were coming to us and say we need you to be involved in this. we arere making sure contributing. >> we have different jurisdictional requirements. i can tell you that one of the

jobs of the governor's office is to make sure the environment of regulators understand implications to businesses and to customers. gene understands that. governors are very useful in that. >> the question from the audience. how specifically do you see a role as a regulator changing or expanding these of the rate making, etc.? who wants to answer that? >> i will try to be as specific as i can. bulka conversation, the rests in the environmental [indiscernible] that will continue to be strong

between her agencies. since 2002 in place principles which were first introduced with the traditional generation and then expanded for alternate energy. which gives the industry advanced rate making the for the generation is bill. built. i am not sure that needs to be changed. from that standpoint we have been ahead of the curve on those things. i do think there'll be conversation with the utilities on changing business models. it is just the flow of how things are going. from our standpoint, we have the regulatory things in place. open.keeping those things >> one of the challenges of being specific is the fact that

we are still confining the question. as we continue to look and mention that some of these mechanisms that we have used are still working, we recognize it is [indiscernible] we don't want it back until it is too late to discover that we are not incentivizing the right investments. the initiative. whatthe time to figure out is the right question, had we go about answering that. >> how should epa standards for new and modified sources be integrated into section 111 thd. >> news sources is a tricky issue. amendments under

george bush the first. it is been almost 20 years, i guess. i was there in the early 90's. were inllutions that the 90's. .cid rain it worked. -- it is a tricky issue. working together we can get our hands on it is not easy. from ther question audience. because wind is intermittent it, there's is a problem mashing it. how do you handle that?

say they have done a fine job of how to integrate went into the system. when the newest wind farm comes online next year, 40% of the electorate generational come from wind. warren buffett thanks it has gone that way. that is part of the conversation. what do you do, and how do you manage that? >> i think that is an excellent question, and one we have not given enough focus on. we live in a world of markets. have those markets are working, whether or not they are properly valuing resources is a critical question.

just to throughout a simple the assistance secretary of nuclear energy pointed out that given the economic situation, we could be shutting down one a five percent of our nuclear reactors in the if we are going to be losing our largest source of non-emitting generation. we're going to have a challenge. we need to get the markets right. i think that is such a critical component of the iso. that is a focus we have spent a lot of time on. we need to spend even more time to ensure we are not losing some of these sources.

we have a matter, whether it is baseline, contributing to climate change, we want to make sure we have those market rules correct. >> i agree. , wind and solar, depending on where you are, solar facilities are great. new jersey is been successful and solar. backup, there's a small .ompany expensive electricity in the summers for electricity. those batteries, which should be , that is exciting.

there are some variables like wave action that is not as intermittent as wind or solar. that is where i'm hopeful we will have more research. there are some companies that are doing. technologies in the atlantic and the northwest. that is pretty confident. technologies, i think we need to have more money available for that type of critical research. >> there are ways to firm up when power. and also geographic redistribution of wind power. another question from the audience. if the epa allows flexibility in states choose different options, how will states prevent leakage. issue.age was the

pennsylvania did not join reggie. new jersey was a leakage state. topic whenhuge reggie was being negotiated. it will always be an issue. >> i was a state elected official for a fair amount of time. rules,r we saw federal legislation, we were always sort of direct and didn't sleep well. i would like to ask the three of you. what is nirvana in terms of what the epa does, and what is the nightmare? that your short of breath from time to time because this is a big set of issues delivered to your lap unlike any

that have ever been delivered before in public service. you spent a lot of time thinking what if. you also, because you're from states that of the remarkable things, you feel kind of comfortable that the epa will almost certainly want to recognize that. tell me about your nirvana moments and your nightmare moments. >> nightmare first. with concern ourselves resource adequacy. reliability. and affordability. some of these rules don't necessarily fit neatly. some of the things we spend time i've been be down a little bit. -- concerned

really, i apply the epa for their outreach efforts. they are saying all the right things. i am concerned. i'm waiting for the details. i am just hoping that they will give us the flexibility to work within our states to come up with a plan that will allow us to meet those objectives whilst making sure we keep the lights on and maintain that level of affordability necessary for our economy and our citizens well-being. >> nerve on a would be the smorgasbord of options we could choose from and will give us the .lexibility

the nightmare is public utility commissions are the only answers that are statutorily charged. looking out for the consumer, looking up with a financial viability of the industry. the company can't afford to keep the lights on, that's not good. if you can keep the lights on, that's not good. my nightmare is that one or two of those will be chopped off and then i do not know what we will do. >> i am fairly optimistic. well.g it pretty i think we will -- the details will be there. they will have to be worked out.

i am hopeful that we will get it right. for instance, with the generation, you have large facilities.o have it makes sense, carbon is worldwide. it makes sense that if a large states,ng company in 13 if it is cheaper to reduce in one state than another, let them do that. it is about carbon, which can be anywhere. that makes the most sense. i am hopeful that the utility generating industry gets it, understands it, and what except that. i don't know if they will. i think they should.

that also goes to cooperation. >> yes. it makes a lot of sense. there isn't any reason we shouldn't do that. i would do it for a company. is that this is going to be ending up in court forever for small reasons are economic reasons for some of these larger companies, which is not good for the world or the country. >> we are about out of time. we are not going to get to all of the questions. energy storage. are there additional policies states can look to to encourage storage? >> yes. >> it's exciting. there is a company in georgia

that has an environmentally friendly battery. we give them stood up money initially. california has all kinds of things going. storage with renewables makes complete sense. it is there. my one regret is to put a lot of money into smart meters. we should have put into inergy storage. that is the holy grail. >> storage is the holy grail. it should be a national imperative that we spend as much effort as we possibly can, perhaps additional leadership of the federal level on promoting r&d in the area. it will solve a lot of problems. it will help us move to the clean energy economy, and even , it than nuclear energy will assist in the more

intermittent resources and allow them to be following much for closely. >> what opportunities do you see electric buyers, large retailers to get credit in an 11-the framework? >> fingers crossed. [inaudible] >> there were a lot of companies like that. generatorsa lot of that have been doing it for the last 10-15 years. they should get something for doing that. are there additional policies where incentives the state can develop to encourage energy storage question the >> more r&d money at this point. feasible at a is

reasonable cost. i'm not a people are looking at germany. i think we need to figure it out nationally. >> [indiscernible] they have been doing that for a number of years. extremeof sandy and weather events, people are looking for that. , recommending grid centered approach to cutting emissions. >> go-ahead. mix. is part of the as everybody knows, you are balancing is what is critical. i try to emphasize that an earlier comments. it has to be a combination approach. we have responsibilities for states. it is critical we be given the ability to address issues that

are specific to our state. however, we live in a global community. you can't necessarily put borders up. we don't want to do that. there are tremendous opportunities at the regional level. we should try to capitalize on most of the extent possible while ensuring that we are not atcluding good alternatives the state and local level. >> last question. the benefits of combined heat and power ensuring reliability. how will this feed into compliance? jersey, we are working on micro-grid and being approved by the federal government. extremeed into the weather event and all that.

i think that is the way to go. especially in addition to extreme weather. you had in cyber security and tourism. put those things together, that is the way you move forward in the smaller scale. >> that is an example of the previous question. customers can contribute to this mission. we see tremendous potential. we have some, but not nearly as much. it is cost-efficient, it is clean. -- we havesome received a grant to study the issue further. the challenge is the cost. it is not economic for the manufacturers who are using it. it is part of the conversation.

it is focused on everything. a conversation needs to be incorporated in all of this. >> they use it to combine powers. they could go off-line. they did the market analysis of what electricity is used at times. >> having served in the state capital, i know that work in the state agencies is enormously rewarding. you can decide to do things and measure the effectiveness of that. wanted to have a panel that is success stories. where badw in a city news travels first-class. we wanted to at least give a bit

of attention to the fact that there are states out there that are doing interesting, unique things. they will not be surprised by what is happening with respect to the epa. they have been working on their own in exactly the right direction. we commend the folks in iowa and michigan and new jersey. i appreciate your coming to washington to be part of this. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] 14] on washington journal,

look ahead to the midterm elections and the 2016 presidential race. we will examine the developments in the ukraine with kurt volker. letting. is kelly washington journal airs live every morning at 7:00 eastern. >> he is interviewed on the question of integration of baseball. he said, it is interesting. all of the accounts of what he actually said, it is clear to me that he had doubts about the integration of baseball. because what will happen is, what they want, they want our fans.

they want our fan base. we're outgrowing the major leagues. we are packing them in. that is a wee think. they want our fans. if you want to integrate, take teams. another point, if they were interested in increasing the talent of their team they will not just maybe take one or two players. we have bunches of players who are good enough to play in the major league. >> integrating professional baseball, tonight at 8:00 eastern on american history tv on c-span 3. >> there is no question that don't speaktinely the truth to the american public. it is not just about

inaccuracies on terms of what the affordable health care act would be. it is the absence of speaking the truth about where we are. where are we? we are now at a standard of living and what we were at 1988. -- thatave her family needs to be spoken. the biggest problem that i see with congress's the denial of reality. you can still be a good person and deny reality. we deny realities in some sense in our lives every day because we do not want to face them. the fact is, we haven't had leadership in this country in a long time. i am talking presidential and congressional.

you can debate what caused it. i have my idea of what caused it. >> senator coburn on his career and reasons for his retirement from the senate, sunday at 8:00 on c-span q&a. >> coming up the conservative freedom summit. then he look at the economic arguments for and against pay inequality. >> for over 35 years, c-span brings public affairs to you, putting you in the room at