>> senator coburn announced to retire at the end of next year. >> time we could borrow money

against the future of our kids. it's time we quit mortgaging their future. it's time we start taking responsibility for the actions of the federal government. >> does that happen? >> no. >> why not? >> it's human nature. if you're going to do that, if you're going to actually really solve the problems, you have to go against your own political best judgment for being here. which means you put at risk as a politician what you desire to continue. which is being a u.s. senator. being a u.s. congressman. i find it really counterintuitive when i talk to people in oklahoma who don't agree with me a lot but trust me. that's what's happened. you see this real low approval

rating of congress. it's because they don't trust us. because we haven't given them reason to trust us. we haven't been honest to them about the real problems. pain is coming. the question is, do we manage the pain and the difficulties or do we ignore them until their here and suffer greater pain. >> if you had to pin the tail on the donkey, when did this start in this country in the last 50 years? >> probably as we've had supreme court rulings that have widened and expanded the commerce clause and the general welfare clause. it fed into the nature of politicians to always want to be there. to do something to make it right. the motions of politicians are good. generally they're excellent. they want to do good things.

they don't always want to do the hard right thing. >> has that changed any of the last few years compared to the first 200 years? >> i don't think so. people who are here are different than originally than the first 50 years of our country. the first 50 years of our country, people varied and large amounts of experience in life. now we have limited experience in the political realm, that concentrate the vast majority of people with experience who are here. it's noble to do that but it comes with limitations because you lack exposure and judgment and ability to discern proper values in terms of the long term

viewpoint versus short term view point. >> you talk about in the opening thing, about you ripped up credit card then you talked about the good people. here's another clip of you back when we talked in 2007 when you had just come back to the senate. let's watch this. [video clip] i'm sure with certain senators on certain times these are great people. i have no problem with the greatness and the desire of most of the people here. the people in the senate and congress are great people. we fall to the pressures. ours are just magnified because we're in the spot light. >> you talked about human nature and these are great people. how could they be great people if they're mortgaging their lives and their grandchildren and grandchildren's grandchildren? >> they don't have a perspective. >> why not? >> because they don't have the life experiences to have it.

when you take the vast majority of members of congress who never done anything in their lives but politics. they don't get the texture and granularity of difficulties, consequences and actions. they miss that. their poor judgment becomes limited. i don't fault them for that. that's not their fault they don't have judgment. that's always i said the way you fix washington is change it here. now you bring a significant repertoire of life experiences that are much different than the career politician to make those critical judgments about the future. most americans would not fall for short term gain with aggravated long term losses. that's what we do everyday in washington. we've done it in the past.

we continue to do it this year. it's disappointing that we think about the short term political scenario and never look at the underlying cause of the problems. we fix the symptoms but we don't dress the underlying cause. to a fault, we do that on almost everything that comes before us. we want to put fires out rather than prevent the next fire. >> elected three times to the u.s. house. twice in the u.s. senate. both times you put own term limits on you. this time around you will resign at the end of this year. why? >> well, i made a lot of decisions. what i really come to know is my reaction and my fitting and the situation i'm in and when it's

time for me to do something different it becomes very obvious to me. i say my patience is wearing thin with the way congress works. i'm not leaving to just leave. i'm going to work very hard on trying to get a convention of the state. i'm actually convinced that the only way we really repair what was originally intended is to have a convention in the state. i'm bowing out of the senate but i'm not bowing out of the debate >> back in 2003 when you had a book, you weren't in congress at the time. here's something you to say about your own personal condition. [video clip] >> was was the year you got your cancer? >> actually i had two. first year was 1976 or 1977. >> what kind was it? >> it was melanoma.

i had complete recovery in from that. >> how old were you? >> i was 26 or 27. it had a big impact on life. it changed my perspective. actually eventually led me into going into medicine. i got interested in inocular lenses. when i found out you can do everything, i didn't want to be an on -- >> there you were with melanoma and then you had prostate cancer. >> i made this condition about four months after i had recurrence. the recurrence of the cancer

didn't have anything to do with my decision >> what's it like to be a doctor and know so much about the body and find yourself going through throw different cancers on one return? >> oh, i don't think being a doctor really -- you understand the pathology and the physiology of it. you understand the scientific journals and the possible outcomes probablily better. i think that would work into my faith more than it works into my knowledge as a physician. i'm a fighter. i'm going to take every advantage of every tool i can. i'll whip this present situation. i have full confidence that i'll do that. it will take me some time to do it. it's kind of another hiccup along the road. it's also a confirming thing that said you made the right decision in terms of leaving congress. because i can apply more effort to getting that taken care of

when i'm not in congress. >> can you tell us what you have to do to take care of it? >> well, it's complicated because i have a fairly rare type of prostate cancer. it's going to involve ultimately surgeries and chemical therapy. i'm undergoing some of that now. i'm moving along. it doesn't knock me back. >> when do you have to have the surgeries? >> depends on numbers. probably this spring. >> before you leave? >> yes. >> after that, you have to go to chemoteam again? -- chemotherapy again. >> it depends on the numbers. we have wonderful therapies that

can prolong life for a great long period of time and multitude if doesn't work, you got another shot at another drug. we have combination of radiation therapy and chemotherapy. and i'm in great hands. i'm at m.d. anderson. got one of the leading oncologist in the world. i'm a pretty good patient and follow what they say to do. >> will it slow you down? >> the surgery will for a while. after that, no. >> if i remember correctly, you've been married for over 45 years. >> i have. >> you got three daughters. of >> three grown daughters pip got a grand daughter graduating high school. i got them from 18 years of age and 18 months. of >> what's the family's reaction to you? all the activities you're involved in, being a senator and now fighting this other battle. >> oh, one it's sometimes hard to be a senator. grandchild on child, you get hit with people who don't like what

i do or how do i it. the other side, i think they have a lot of confidence that i'm pretty honest about where i am and what i'm going to do. i think that's reassuring. real comfortable where i am. >> i don't think you're quitting because of the cancer. >> i can't send reports back out what you said to your story isn't true. it's not true. i told the minority leader in march or april of last year that i was leaving. >> is it for you as far as public office? >> i think so. there's a lot of things i want to do. i want to allocate better times to things that are more important personally in terms of my wife, my children and grandchildren. i want to ail educate more time

to actually loving people. actually trying to make a difference in other people's lives one on one. there's a lot of reward that comes from that when you reach down and help somebody. i'm anxious to walk through any door that i'm supposed to walk through. regardless of the consequences or the costs, i can't wait to get to the next door. i'm kind of excited about leaving and seeing what life has for me after i leave here. >> is there something you want to accomplish here before you leave? >> there's a lot of things i like to accomplish. it will depend on whether we can get them in bills. lot of reforms starting to happen. stuff i've been working on for six or eight years. we'll see if we get some of those things done. my hope would be that we do. working across the aisle pretty hard on a lot of those things. >> back to 2007 again when you

were here, you were a united states senator and you were talking about federal funding and accountability transparency act in 2006. [video clip] >> probably the most important thing that happened in the last two years, is the transparency and accountability act. which is is going to expose every american how we spend our money. with you will follow down to subcontractors and grantees and individual american will know where earmarks go and who got the money and who sponsored them and where all the money goes. what defense contractor. all the way down, we will be able to know that. >> when? >> the first part starts in january 2008. subcontractors will be 2008, nine months later. everything will be online and finished by october of 2008. >> has that been signed by the president? >> yes, sir. it has been signed. of >> that was your bill?

>> that was my bill. >> who was on it with you? >> barack obama. >> is it there? >> not where we want it to be. needs to be improved. the compliance with the agencies is a real problem. the accuracy of the data is a real problem. but there's couple of things coming that are going to make that better. my hope will be those will come through this year. we'll not only where the money is spent, -- most of the agencies don't know they're programs. don't know how many programs they have and whether or not they're making a difference. the combination of those together ultimately will make a difference. we can't fix this here.

its not fixable with members of congress and the executive branch. it rares some changes to the constitution to reestablish the balance of power between the branches. the executive branch has all the power and we can write in bills, you will do this and there's no consequences if they don't. we're totally out of balance in terms of what our founders thought we should have. some things and constitutional convention would be, giving congress the power to say you're going to issue all of these regulations that's going to have a great impact on the economy. it doesn't match what our intention was. we got a right to veto that. rebalance the power so if you have a hundred million dollars in the economy, maybe congress ought to bless that and say no and that's not the way to go. part of that is congress' problem because we don't write bills specific enough. we don't direct. we lazy, we write bills with an intention and then allow administration to figure it out. which tell you that we don't know enough about what we're talking about if we can't write

the details. of >> i got on an omb website trying to fiend the accountability act information. its no more on the page. is it data.gov. >> you can go to u.s.a. spending.gov. >> there were 92,000 data points on the website. >> what does that tell you? >> let me read to you what i also found on the omb website, accountable government initiative, the obama administration's campaign to improve results, june 2011. here's the first couple sentences. all across america families and businesses are finding ways to live within their means. eliminating waste and expenses but some ways desirable but not

essential. the federal government is doing the same thing. focusing on how we can cut waste, get the most from taxpayer dollars and reform how the government works so the american people get the best possible service. >> i give credit to the obama administration. they have put in multitude of their budgets ideas that are good ideas. things we've been proposing for years. totally ignored by congress. i would also say that people at omb that the director and her assistant, management, are the real deal. we finally have some real professional business people with real experience in the real world working for the obama administration. >> tell us what the omb is? how does that fit? >> they have power. they write the budgets. they have authority over the

agencies for compliance and transparency and also reporting. they have -- if you're a president, your key area besides your cabinet, is having the strongest person possible in at omb. that's where the teeth are for the administration that cause agencies to become compliant with what the administration would will. >> you say she's the real deal? give us a reason why. >> number one is, she's transparent. she's not a turf protector. burrwell is here name. she communicates. there's nothing about her other than what you see is what you get. you have -- she and beth coburt

who is the management secretary and director, are a team who have great experience outside of government in private sector. what they're doing is applying that private sector technology and knowledge and organization and structure to the office of management and budget. my complicates to the president for his judgment in the selecting those two individuals. i think it's going to make a big difference >> here's another sentence. this is from the omb. reforming how washington works is ongoing effort to demand dim -- diligence and leadership. the president asked the vice president to take the reins to reform efforts and hunt down misspent tax dollars through the government. has the vice president done that? >> i don't know. i can't comment on what he has

or hasn't done. what i can tell you is, here's what the gao says, we're wasting $200 billion >> stop again, gao. >> government accountability office. >> who does that answer to? >> they answer to congress. they are congress' arm to look at everything. four years ago i put in one of the debt limit increases a mandate that the gao had to spend and identify duplication. this month, the report will come out and they show all of these different areas where we have multitude of programs doing exactly the same thing. layered over, job training is one where we have 47 programs spending $18 billion and all three do exactly the same thing. they overlap with no metrics to measure whether or not they're

effective. gao built up this list. you got $200 billion worth of duplicating programs, that congress hasn't acted on. there's skilling a where they put job training programs and put them into one and sent it back to the states. states run job training programs far better than the federal government. and much more effectively. we have not done one major thing in congress to address what gao has raised. which goes back to our first conversation, why not. if there's $200 billion there and we're borrowing every year from our kids, why don't we lessen that by streamlining those programs? >> why not? >> because congress is lazy. because all of those program have a constituency.

>> you told me and us they're great people. >> well, they are. because they like to see what they're doing. they're blinding by their own ambition. >> i will stop just a question to ask you what a great person is? >> i'm not questioning their motives, i'm questioning their lack of experience. you have people no real experience and no difficulty and no success of life outside of politics, you will continue to get the same results. that's why we need a constitutional convention that will put term limits. once you put term limits you will eliminate a lot of the careers. the other thing it will open up a lot more seats for people who have real world experience to be competitive. but that's only one part you can do to fix the government. you're not going to fix it in washington today.

i'm convinced of that. i would have spent 16 years in congress and i continue to be disappointed everyday at the lack of forsight, the lack of judgment, the lack of long term thinking and the lack of critical decision-making that occurs in congress. >> if you had to do over again, i know you don't, would you go to congress or the senate? >> i've been tremendously blessed by some friendships that have come out of that. just the long time life friends, it's been worth it. it's been a tremendous sacrifice in terms of earning power outside of here. it's really a different level in terms of it's taking 16 years out of the most productive areas in the time of my life. has made a big difference in terms of my future.

>> first time around in congress, you said you didn't take in benefits? >> i participated in the thrift savings plan of >> why? >> because i needed it. i needed some type of retirement program. >> you delivered over 4000 babies in your life. would have been better off if you stayed doing that? >> i don't know. that's a hard question for me. i guess somebody would have to answer that after i'm gone. the question really comes down can you assess and did you make a difference. i think i elevated the debate and raised the question. the question then comes has any action come out of that. and i don't know. >> are you going to go back to practicing medicine? >> no. >> why not? >> practicing medicine today in the environment we have, the joy of medicine is gone. i talked to my partners all the

time pip they're struggling with mandate to the federal government. the mandates of the insurance industry. the pleasure of being able to take care of somebody and having the judgment to know what needs to be done >> here you are in 2013. [video clip] >> which brings us back to the integrity of the statement of the president. what is that? you seen all sorts of rationalization. if you like your insurance you got, you can keep it. that's a lie. right now for 5,800,000 and soon to be 15 million americans, that isn't true. they knew it wasn't true when they said it. but it sounded good.

second deceitful thing. if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, period. oh really? >> deceitful. >> it is. >> but that's your friend, president obama. >> yes. >> he's not perfect. i'm not perfect. nobody is perfect. when it came to this law -- their motivations to fix healthcare, i don't doubt were pure. what we had was a mess. the problem is they went the wrong direction.

now we have a bigger mess. when you look at some of the surveys of our best doctors, those are in their late 40's and early 50's, survey them, you will see tons of retirement. we went the other way. what we should have gone is -- done gone in the same way and created safety nets and done it to we have market forces allocating resources. consequently, we had over 5 million people lose their insurance about 1.8 million of those resigned up at a higher cost, three quarters at a higher coast. we put a lot of people on medicaid. i think we went the wrong direction. i don't question their motives but the politics behind it were pretty rough and pretty inaccurate. it was untrue. >> i don't mean to beat this drum, great people, here we are governments according to you and

others, lying to us. members of congress and the senate and thexb administration lying. not telling the truth and the trust in government is way down as you know every poll you see. when do we slap something on them other than great? >> you hung up on my word. what i'm talking about -- i don't think they're necessarily stellar individuals. they're great human beings. there's no question that congress routinely and administration routinely don't speak the truth to the american public. it's not just about inaccuracies on terms of what the affordable healthcare act would do, it's absence speaking of truth where where -- where are we. we are now at a standard of living the same we had in 1998.

we now have per family unfunded obligation and pure death $1.1 million per family. that needs to be spoken so we can build the context because the tough things are going to come. the biggest problem that i see with congress is denial of reality. you can still be a good person and deny reality. we all have flaws and we all deny realities on some sense in our lives everyday because we don't want to face him -- them. the fact is we haven't had the leadership, that would stand up and tell the truth about the situation we find ourselves in. you can debate what caused it. i pretty well have my idea what caused it. in terms of careers and getting elected. what we've done, we've lost

legitimacy. we're not legitimate. we're ill legitimate because we fail to speak the truth about where we find ourselves. >> where do you put the blame on that? something had to happen. we haven't been this way for 250 years. >> no. we've lacked some great leadership. >> why? do you blame the public? >> i think there's a cultural decline in our country? >> why? >> i'm in the a sociologist. i can't give you the answer. i can tell you my observation. more and more walked away some kind of faith. whether it's a set of rule or parameters in which you lived your life by. i think that makes it easier to walk away from valued principles that would speak. >> politicians wrapped themselves in the faith issue, god. on both sides. >> well, it isn't about what you

say. it's about what you do. it's like i rather see someone to live than spoken everyday. the truth is in how you live your life. people get that. the american voter is not stupid. the question is, they have limited choices. they have a choice of a career republican or a career democrat most of the time. i got into politics never have been in it before. which means you can do it but it's difficult and so that's why i think term limits will change. again that's not the answer. the answer is really the ship, speaking the real truth. the american people know, they don't have the focus on the details. they don't trust because we haven't earned their trust. they don't trust us because

we've been exspeed -- expedient as we dealt with them. most people will vote for somebody even though they disagree with them, if they trust them and think they trying to do the right thing. >> what is the status of your friendship with barack obama? >> i think it's fine. i either talk to him or write him a note or he writes me a note or we communicate couple of times a month. it's been rough. i have significant disagreements with the president and his policies. i've tried to be respectful of the office and at the same time supporting him when i can. i do a lot. when he does good things, try to praise him. >> what was the source of your friendship in the first place? >> we kind of fell together as

we've came into the senate. . he was kind of one. we sat down and started this. we did a little bit as we came through orientation together. but then we talked. i talked to him when he was planning his run for the presidency. we just continued. i personally very much like the man. i disagree with his policies. he's a very likeable guy when you get to know him. that's side most conservatives never seen. the question is can you dislike the policies and like the man. the question is. there's a lot of nice guys in the senate but abhor what they speak and stand for.

>> here's the president at the national press talking about you. [video clip] >> there is one colleague of mine who is missing today. a great friend of mine who came into the senate with, senator tom coburn. tom is going through some tough times right now. but i love him dearly even though we're from different parties. he's a little closer to political perspective than mine. he is a good man and i'm keeping him and his family in my prayers all the time. so just a shot out to my good friend tom coburn. >> you know he did that? >> i knew it after the fact, yes. >> again, people outside of washington don't understand. they don't get how all of you can be friends and you can stand up in the floor of the senate and say people aren't telling the truth.

you can accuse this president of not telling the truth when it comes to the healthcare bill. do you think he said, you can keep your healthcare plan and keep your doctor on -- >> i don't know. i don't know the detail about it of. i can tell he was poorly advised if he didn't. that's the whole point. in politics you get wrapped up in what you believe. that's why it's important to have people around you who will challenge your perspective and your thought. >> nobody lost their job in this administration and this town over anything. >> i think it's atrocious. people in my staff lost their job. it's a different way of running things. i think what the american people are looking for is

culpabilitity. it's about power. how do you utilize power as a reflection of your character of who you are. one of my biggest digs with the president, i think our country right now more than anything in the past needs a leader that brings us together rather than accentuates our division. >> he would say to republicans -- >> i understand. >> everybody points fingers. >> i don't care what people think about me. what my job is to bring people together to solve problems. >> have you ever gone to mitch mcconnell and say you need to help bring this together?

>> oh yes. >> what does he think? >> the times i've done it, part of that personal. i won't reveal that conversation. >> what happens behind the scenes when there's a personal difference where people don't like each other, same party, same caucus? >> i don't know. i think it's probably like any other group dynamic. it's kind of like when you have a fight with your brother, he's still your brother. the deal is, the one thing that i've learned in life and it was written in 1890 andy christian wrote this, he said when you forgive somebody, you set somebody tree and the person you set free is yourself. the idea of holding a grudge or

not letting it go and not reconciling the people is making this work. very little of that happens. most of it gets swallowed. what really has to do, you need a leader what says we will reck seal our -- reconcile our problems. most of the times when people are feel aggrieved or injured, they have tension to it. whereas in my life what i found when i've gone to reconcile with people, there's no movie or intention most of the people. communication, life runs on communication. that's why that skill is so important in terms of communicating and pushing towards reconciliation. even if it's not possible.

behind the scenes, there's times things get rough. people get the feeling. most of the time it gets soft. >> what's the worse thing that has been done? i don't know this sounds maybe the wrong way to ask. been done to you because people didn't like what you were doing behind the scenes request of >> i don't know, i don't keep track of that. >> let's watch this clip of you and another senator, deceased senator on the floor. [video clip] >> all i want to do is put the senate on notice. i've been asked several times would i agree with this version or that version. no! no i will not. unless it treats all the states the same way. praise god i have the energy to do what i have to do so prove the senate of oklahoma i mean what i say. it's wrong to do this any state.

it's never been done to another state, never. this is not the time to start this process. i ask my friend from oklahoma to reconsider this. reconsider what he's getting us into. the amendment may pass but if it does, the bill will never pass. it it does, i will be taken out of here on a stretch per >> that was in 2005. was that the real thing? >> was he the real thing? yes. he was speaking on what he believed. that congress gets the goodies and send them home. the very bill -- the amendment didn't pass because we got rid of earmarks. of that was what started the american people just absolute rejection of this political game

playing where we spending everybody's money to make the politicians look good. following up on reconciliation, i reconciled with ted stephens after that. i bought him a box of cigars. he was very angry but i reconciled that. we had a great relationship. >> what do you think what happened to him. he was indicted and convicted in the court of law. you say wrongly. >> the prosecutorial malfeasant in that, it was wrong. it was political in nature. >> political on the part of who? >> of the prosecutors. the question is, ted stevens was a character. he was part of an institution. he did a lot of great things for this country. even though he had different

viewpoints on how we should not use earmarks to feed our own nest to make us look good and we can take this money and do a better job. he benefited the country great deal while he was here. what they did was -- i don't believe it was just. if you look at the testimony, if you take in the balance of the prosecutorial malfeasant, he didn't do anything. >> here's another moment and your career in the united states senate. [video clip] >> if you want to ask why the senate didn't work, there's one reason, it's called harry reid. incompetent and incapable of carrying on the tradition of the

senate. >> i don't apologize for my frustration of this place. but occasionally my words are harsh and inaccurate. this past week i used words that were inappropriate in describing his actions in the senate. for that i offer a public apology. i do not apologize for how i think the senate is being run and the damage that i think is being done to the country. but as an individual, he has a difficult time and i understand that and to him i ask his forgiveness. z as an individual, you have a date time. >> being majority leader is a tough time. pols of your caucus which is divided. the pols of the president who has an agenda that he has to try to shepard.

you're in the midst of it. my criticisms have been really in terms of protecting the institution and allowing the institution to function. i addressed most of that to what he's required to do politically rather than policy wise. but the damage to the institution. why did we have a dicamral legislation. they didn't want two houses. they wanted a house that was responsible for the citizenship. they wanted another house where you protect the right of minorities. you also had long term thinking, and less politics in nature. we've gotten away from that. we almost have two houses of representatives now. which in the long term will be a detriment to the country.

the senate was to make it really hard for us to make major changes in the country so we could do this. i don't think he's been a great sheparder of the senate. >> what would you say -- do you think of mitch mcconnell, harry reid democratic leader in the senate, john boehner in the house and nancy pelosi, how did they get to be leaders? >> i have never spent any time thinking about that. >> what does it take to be a leader in thinks -- these body and institutions? >> well, being there long time is one. number two, creating indebtedness. number three, sometimes speaking a vision. i don't see much of that

anywhere. >> can you remember the moment you said, tell us who you said it to, i'm getting out? >> i started talking to my wife and one of my best friends back home in oklahoma. >> what triggered it? >> a recognition of the limits of what i thought i could accomplish and could i accomplish more. in other words, you and i aren't exactly the same age. we're definitely in the down portion of our slope. you start measuring how do i make the biggest influence. how do i do the most good. how do i accomplish the greatest benefit for the most people. you combine that questioning that with your level of frustration. really it's more disappointment. it's less frustration and more disappointment in the actions of

people who know better but choose to make a political decision that is good for them may not necessarily be good for the country. but it fits their personal plan. >> what was your wife's reaction? >> my wife was happy about it. being gone, i go home on thursday and friday and come back on monday morning. i have done it for nine plus years in the senate. so being gone it really falls on your spouse and your family for a lot of things. i will never forget when i came home from the house. it's a real adjustment because your wife takes over a lot of things you don't even think about. you want to get back into that decision-making mode. all of a sudden, there's a potential for conflict there. we worked it out fine.

it ran smoothly. the point is, one of the things, great people do make sacrifices. when you're in the senate you sacrifice your family. there is no question about it. you are putting them second. one of the things i hope to do is to remedy some of that. >> there wasn't a moment where you said this is i t? >> no. i'm so glad i'm not going to be a part of failing to be straightforward with the american people. >> one of the subjects you talk about and this is just recently in march. you made this commenten the senate floor talking about the doc fix. let's watch. [video clip] >> the bill we had on the floor is one of the reasons why i'm leaving congress at the end of this year. because here's why the american

people are disgusted with us. we're going to put off tomorrow what we should be doing today. we should be picking this problem instead of delaying the problem. i concur a lot what my colleague from virginia said. the fact is there's to courage. there's no guts. there's no intention to actions to do what is the best thing in the long term for this country and this body angle. >> what are you talking about? how do you explain it? this has gone on for 16 years? >> what i'm talking about is -- aisle put -- i'll put in

medicine analogy. if you're sick and you got a cough and a fever, i can give you something to take the fever away. i can give you something to fix the cough and alleviate the pain. i will would have treated your symptoms. but then the cause is, you have a ammonia. until i give you antibiotics, treating the symptoms is creates the problems. of that's what congress does. it's sickening. they refuse to recognizes and discern what the underlying problem is. they treat the symptoms and this will be back this 13 months. >> what is it? >> standard growth rate formula is a formula how we pay doctors. they were getting ready to have a big cap because they started 1997 as way to control medicare cost. we continue to not control

medicare cause to not -- we've delayed fixing the real problem 16 times. >> should doctors have medicare expenses to them? >> what doctors should have a say in how we go forward to control the cost of medicare. the point i made in that speech on the floor, we pay doctors wrongly for care. we them by code. what we've done is decreased the quality of medicine because we won't allow doctors to spend the amount of time with you to find out who's going on. they got to see so many people to get enough code to pay their over head and salary. rather than -- if you would listen to your patient, they will tell what you is wrong with

them. that takes time. when the average time before a patient interrupted by a doctor six seconds in this country, you can see we're missing out. >> explain that one. >> when you come in to see the doctor. they'll say why are you here today. they're sitting there looking at the chart what the nurse wrote down. you start into it six seconds after that, they start asking you questions. the reason they're asking you questions because they need to hurry up to finish so they can get to the next patient. what we've done is incentivized them not to practice -- the reason we know this is true, if you take kaiser permanente. they spend more time with patients. they order whole lot of fewer tests. the time to correct diagnosis is

shorter. we're not even looking at it. we're still stuck because there's no leadership and there's no forward think being what is the real problem. we've known this was coming up for a year. but there's no leadership to fix it. that's the kind of thing that -- you have the authority as a committee chairman to actually make a difference and you don't carry out the assets given you as a committee chairman, that's disappointing. >> you stepped outside the town and look at the whole town both republicans and democrat, you will see congress and senate and house spending a third of their time supposedly raising must be for their next campaign. you see the president of the united states getting on a 747

and flying over the united states doing the same thing. why don't everybody stay put and figure out away to deal with it? >> leadership. nobody has the confidence -- what i would tell you, we lack character centered leadership in this country that says it's okay to lose if we're doing the best things for the country. because we're so divided politically from a policy standpoint that we haven't had the character come forward and lead our country that says, whatever happens, every american is going to take part in it. therefore we ought to have the leadership that brings us together that is honest about what our difficulties are, that puts forward and plan that says let's work this together. >> how much of this is the

media's fault? >> media typically wants to see a fight. they exaggerate it. people talk to me all the time about what's going on in the senate. i'd say my relationships across the aisle is good or better. people in the senate -- the story line you hear is very different what's actually going ton. >> if you listen to the conservative radio shows, no matter what president obama does, these are your friends -- >> i'm not sure they're my friend. >> they come out right after -- every single time he does anything, he's wrong. >> nobody is wrong all the time. number two is both sides exaggerate the differences. again what it takes is a real leader. i was criticized by saying one time you can't believe everything fox news says.

>> you can't? >> no you can't. the point is if you want to balance, you needs to listen to both ends. if you want input and knowledge and hear the whole story, that's one of the reasons sometimes on an issue, i'll have both sides come in and so i can hear both sides. >> what issue have you changed your mind on? >> there's a lot of things i've given on. i think that's more trying to get something accomplished. i can't have my way. my way isn't the right way. it's just my way. something to less than that is good. as long as we're thinking long term instead of short term. >> what is going to be your last day in the senate? >> whenever our last day in session is. it could be january 3rd, it could be in december. >> they're electing a new senator --

>> yes, for got years remaining. >> what's the first thing you will do when you're no longer attached to this town? >> well december or january, probably sneak off to colorado in the snow, mountains. and start really planning what i want to do. >> write a book? >> if i do, it won't be a political based book. it will be more faith based book. i'm think being writing a book about anxiety, worry and depression. seen a lot of that. see it up here. see how it affects people. see how faith can intercept with that. >> lot of times you'll hear people say -- you've had melanoma, colon and prostate cancer. three different cancers. cancer is often caused by stress. is that possible and if it is, is your stress level too high? >> i don't think your stress level is too high.

i don't believe that. we all have cancers in us everyday that -- i just don't have really good genes. i don't think it has anything to do with stress. i don't have long life expectancy on my side of the family. >> when did your father die? >> 62. >> of what? >> of a combination of things. >> on that note, we are out of time. senator tom coburn, thank you for joining us. >> for free transcripts or to give us your comment about this program, visit us at q&a.org.