guest: it is meaningless. what is compensated about the tesco are all the special rules and provisions and credits. we think there ought to be steeper productivity for the code. right now, someone making $350,000 pays the same tax rate as someone making $350 million. we think there are -- there is a lot of room for tax brackets. guest: it is a clear measure of there has been

improvement in that the guard. would be ao brackets further simplification. but you're right that we have software now and most people use turbotax and something like that. that is not the biggest sort -- source of complexity. biggest source is the stuff is mrs. have to put up with current that is arcane stuff like how many right off for your investments. over -- other complexity for individuals, the credits they received, the earned income tax very little understanding of that by the recipients. fraud in that of program as a result. qwest should it be maintained yaks --? --guest: should it be maintained? guest: no. there is 11 billion a year due

to improper payments. you make changes to it as far as businesses and how they are tax? the complexity there is many fold. labor cost in businesses, they write is off immediately. expenses,investment equipment, machines, computers, must be written off in years and decades. this is complex. i do not really think the fraud is driven by complexity. there is fraud in all levels of the tesco. tax is costingre the u.s. treasury about $150 billion a year. people cheating on the eit's the, they know their cheating.

just like those filing false returns in getting millions of dollars in refunds. the problem is the reinforcement from the irs to combat that people areake sure only taking the credits they are entitled to. you keep cutting the irs's budget while giving them more and more to do. it will unfortunately suffer. let's go to a call. republican line, go ahead. caller: thank you. do they tax all rich people the same? you failed to mention warren buffett. clinton andsident his wife hillary. these are very wealthy people. you only mentioned mitt romney. there are a lot of wealthy

people. do they all get taxed the same? they do not. you are working, you get a much higher rate. i is mitt romney because it was a recent example that was well-publicized. warren buffett pays the same rate as mitt romney. president obama pays a much higher rate because much of his income is earned income, like salary royalties instead of investment like dividends and capital gains. it does not matter how much you may, whether $20,000 or $100 million. if your income is from work, you will pay twice as much in contact many would for investment. guest: on twitter, it was just asked that it is dividends and gains. guest: i would agree the whole tesco needs a serious overhaul. tax dividends have been the case

since thel gains beginning of the tesco 100 years ago. that is the case in most countries, that there is a lower rate on the sources of income. there already tax once before on orbit income tax. whatever is left after that tax is distributed in shareholders. most companies have been reducing the corporate income tax era that is the source of a lot of jobs. and the source of a lot of investment. the u.s. has not performed the corporate tax code incorporations. we're left with the highest tax rate in the developed world. 60% left over for shareholders. host: what is president obama's

thought on changing that? out hishe president set framework for corporate tax reform which proposed bringing to 28%. down he proposed corporate tax reform be revenue neutral so it does not raise revenue. in order to bring the rate down, you need significant changes. a system butg to even slowing down and having businesses write out their investments over longer years. i would like to address the corporate paying tax first. since this is a test justice on a tax policy recently published a report where they looked at the fortune 500 for five years, 2008-2012, among that -- the companies consistently profitable over the five years, the average corporate income tax rate they paid was 19.4%. of 35%.r half the rate

there were 11 companies in that group that did not pay any tax in that one year. 26 of those corporations did not pay any income tax in any of those five years. earned $170, they billion. also, corporate stock, a lot of endowment funds, pension plans, and a lot of it is not being taxed at the corporate level at all. the double taxation argument does not really apply in a lot of instances. that is one measure of rates. you can look to economists for other measures. economist at oxford university. every year, they publish a comparison of corporate tax rate across the developed world. the u.s. comes up with the highest corporate tax rate.

after japan. statutorythe highest corporate tax rate. the u.s. overtook them when japan reduced their rate. rateok at effective studies and we have the highest tax rate on average in the developed world. variation across countries and effective issue is they are more or less profitable. you do not pay taxes and we have no office. half the countries have no problems in one year. the study rebekah is referring to was done in a very atypical time. losses written off over many years. you have to look at the economic studies.

caller: good morning. tax system issive not much more than this. we can think about it. corporations and business do not pay taxes. the progressives, they will take money from the rich and give it to the poor. you take money from the rich and tax the oil companies. corporation and mine go up. when you start talking about all this progressivism is great, maybe you ought to think about what socialism does across the ocean and tell people the truth

about these taxes. there is not much evidence that taxes influence rises. companies compete based on prices in the market. corporate income taxes are actually borne by shareholders. the people that own stock in the wealthy.re very research papers show about half of americans do not own any stock at all even in their retirement plans. when we think about competition between companies, we think about it as a good and because a bettercompetition is service at a lower price. think about competition. what does it mean? tax rates go down and down and the country with the lowest tax rate has the worst load, the

worst military, the least amount of health care, the worst public services. is that the kind of country we want to live in? if you want to live in a low country, you should move to small yet. --other examples of local local tax competent -- countries , the u.k. has a corporate tax a -- tax rate now. this is the average corporate tax rate in the developed world. it is 25%, compared to 40% in is the. very this developed world. they have health care. by many measures, the health care work better than ours. they have plenty of tax revenue. they get their tax revenue from other sources. we do not have to rely so taxes. on income the corporate income tax is self-defeating at a high rate.

the corporation found ways allowed -- around it. corporations are everyday, almost every day or every week, there are headlines of a reparations leaving the u.s.. just yesterday, walgreens was in the headlines for considering a move to switzerland. it is for tax purposes. the problem is not just that it causes a loss of tax revenue in is, it moves that some jobs and over time, it moves the whole company. you can destroy a company through taxation. that we willies mention, switzerland, ireland, they do well because they are parasites on the rest of the world. rates and tax

artificial shifting of tax rates and they propose tax rates i a lot of money. european countries that have a lower tax rate than we do, as an average, also have very stiff value added taxes. in france, the value added taxes now are 20%. every time you make a purchase, you pay an additional 20% in taxes. us going i cannot see to consumption tax area we have to figure out where we can tax. if the -- a study is published every year that shows where countries are and how much they collect in taxes as a percentage of your product. the u.s. is 33rd out of 35. fewer taxescollects as a percentage of their economy than the u.s. does.

john, you are on with our guest, our independent line. caller: the problem in the united states is that the filthy rich bloodsuckers on the high politicall offices in the states and in the nation. rich,ield for the filthy mr. mcbride, is just giving you the same old worked over complete ohlone. the cure for u.s. economic problem's is to tax the rich. they are getting away with murder. amen. >> we do tax the rich. the average rate is 25%. it is actually more than double the average income tax rate across taxpayers. the oecd and other organizations have already a very progressive

tax system, the most progressive in the developed world. we are shifting most of the tax or an to the high-end. the top one percent pays a greater shares than the bottom of the 90% combined. it has been increasing through every administration over the we continue to make the federal income tax code more and more progressive. so i think, like the corporate out ontax, we are maxed taxing the rich through the federal income tax. it is self-defeating. the rich find ways around it. it does not raise enough revenue. we have many problems with deficits resulting. tax evasion, avoidance, tax planning. say the rich find ways around a bit it goes to her point that even if you pay a top rate of 25 chances are you are

not paying the actual rate of 25% or so. ,uest: the actual rate is 39.6% so they bring it down through various ways. they can move their money around. that is the problem with an income tax, particularly one with high rates. they find ways around it. guest: i have to agree with a call on several points -- the real problem with tax reform not being done is the way campaigns are funded. one of my favorite bloggers last year said members of congress ought to wear a nascar uniform every day with a logo of corporate sponsors who support them on their uniforms. wealthy and corporations have a lot of influence in congress. they have a lot of power. they spent a lot of money library -- lobbying and they get the tax rules they want and they also can afford very high price tax lawyers to do planning to help them get around the rules.

making the tax code simpler would actually help a lot -- not in terms of rate but in terms of rules, because when you have a special rule for a certain type of income or taxpayer, then people try to manipulate their transactions to fit within the special rules so they can get that low rate. while we look at averages, and sometimes they tell us something meaningful, a lot of times they don't. the average tax rate for the wealthy might be 25% but we know a lot of people are paying much less than that. there have been well-publicized cases. host: reggie from norristown, pennsylvania. democrats line. caller: can you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. caller: a couple of questions. you put up a graph on the state taxes on the last segment and you said pennsylvania was three percent.

there is also a county tax of 2.1% you pay on top of that. i don't think that is fair. a surrounding county two miles east of me that pays no tax -- and that is a rich area. i live in a blue-collar area and we have to pay an additional tax on top of the state tax, and another county next-door timmy pays no taxes on the county tax. and another question. overseas taxes and products. that companies that go overseas and make their products overseas -- or sell their products overseas do not pay taxes. -- from 1969other saying the irs, tax from companies outside the u.s. of

citizens. what happened between 1969 and today and how, we did not enforce that rule for people trying to evade taxes by going overseas? host: let's talk about the state income tax. we think about the total federal level but you have to think about state the local tax and how they contribute to the overall tax responsibility. mr. mick arrived. guest: we told what the taxes and their are states that the local income taxes. that is a whole layer of complexity that is unnecessary, that the caller is right about. it is very difficult to figure out these multiple layers of income taxes. whether some are written off against others, etc. base of income, the different definitions of income, it is very, very complex. itsincome tax is, by nature, very, very complex. it really shouldn't be at the local level. it is an absurd layer of complexity.

guest: i do agree with that. it is unfortunate how our tax system has developed and that there are so many different jurisdictions that impose tax. but the states that do impose an income tax tend to have much more fair systems. the states that rely instead on sales tax or property tax or tend to taxof taxes low income people at a much higher rate than they tax high income people. so the income tax is a way to make up for that. host: good morning. joining us from massachusetts on our independent line. go ahead, please. caller: good morning. like most viewers, i am totally before to buy all of these percentages and statistics being thrown around. i suspect it is deliberate. it sort of reminds me -- there are lies, damn lies and then statistics. felt they percent

were tax fairly -- 51% feel they are tech daily. if half of them are not paying tax at all should they even be counted as far as the survey is concerned? don't i don't know why we have a flat tax with no exemptions, no deductions, and let the chips fall where they may. thank you. host: ms. wilkins? guest: the problem with the flat tax is it makes the flat -- tax system even more regressive. as i talked about earlier, state tax systems tend to be very regressive and if the federal tax code was not progress in, you would have lower income people paying a much higher percentage of their income in taxes. focus on the federal income tax because for most of us, that is the biggest amount of tax that we pay. but low income people know a different story. a low income single mom goes to

the store to buy her kids school supplies and she has a $20 bill in her pocket. she knows she can't put $20 worth of stuff in her cart because she knows when she gets to the checkout stand there will 12% tax so10%, 11%, onlys careful to pay -- by $18 worth of stuff. we cannot just focus on the income tax because all americans pay taxes. it is impossible to live in america without paying any tax. you might not pay any income tax but you pay a lot of other taxes that everybody contributes. that is how it should be. host: the notion of a fair tax? guest: a flat tax it makes a lot of sense. it has been proposed by economists going back to the 1970's. the idea is basically to get a way of tracking of people's defined,s it has been particularly the taxing of their investment income.

so the big difference is, you tax wages, which are relatively easy to track and hard to escape taxation on wages, and then you don't tax what people do with those wages after that. you don't tax and additionally if they choose to write to buy groceries. you do not tax additionally if they choose to buy shares in a company. the current income tax double he taxes returns on those shares. that is the fundamental source of the double taxation of the income tax. host: what it the -- layered on by a sales tax? guest: a sales tax in addition to a flat tax would double he tax consumption so you have to do one or the other. a flat tax or a sales tax. host: if you put a flat tax at the federal level on top of the sales and use taxes we already have at the state it would be very, very regressive.

idea of fairness in "the washington post" talks about the marriage penalty. i married people treated differently tax wise than single and is it fair? guest: another feature of the income tax system. we have four if it filing options depending on your marital status. -- four different filing options. that is three too many. should be one. we have all sorts of special provisions depending on how many children you have an depending on your marital status. it is very complex and unnecessary. guest: there is a marriage penalty if both spouses work that if only one spouse works there is a bonus because you basically get to use your spouse's tax bracket. does trade working couples definitely than it treats people that have one spouse staying at home. host: washington, d.c. go ahead. democrats line. myler: thank you for taking call. i had a comment for both people. for the gentlemen, when you are

talking about the effective tax keep theneed to discussion on us. she was talking about effective tax rate that companies pay and your response was talking about the effective tax rate compared to other nations. for the lady, when you are talking about a flat tax, what in thence does it make percentages? you are not paying a larger percent of you and, to make more ,oney -- if the flat tax is 10% it is 10% of 100 million dollars or $10,000. you are paying the same percentage. in terms of having the sales tax with a flat tax, if i am buying groceries for $20 or buy groceries for whole foods for $1000, the six percent sales tax is the same amount so it is not really regressive. it is regressive because of low income people have to spend more of their income. spend more sales

tax as a percentage of their income. you know if he ever lived paycheck to paycheck which most of us have that one time of our spent all of our paycheck on things we need like groceries, clothing, gas, etc.. but high income people only spend a fraction of their incomes. you pair a flat tax with a sales tax it will be very aggressive -- regressive. guest: i would agree with that. you don't need to bank taxes on consumption, -- two taxes on consumption. but going to a that tax will be an improvement in taking off layers of double taxation on investment, particularly corporate investment. we double he tax corporations y tax.d will -- or triple

the additional layer, the third layer, is the corporate income tax which, again, is set very high and the u.s. this thatcher tory corporate rate is the highest in the developed world. there was a question about the effective rate. many studies were done by academics at places like oxford university of calgary, university of north carolina and they found the u.s. has one of the highest effect of corporate rate in the developed world and that is in the mid-20's. ok? mid-20's. that is down from the statutory corporate tax rate of about 40%, just like the individual side of things. people do bring their defect if ratesdown -- effective down. host: we have two guest talking about tax issues. you were just hearing from william mcbride, the tax foundation, and you were also

hearing from rebecca wilkins, citizens for tax justice, their senior counsel. joe from new york, independent line. caller: good morning. and you hear me? i would just like to tell bill and rebekah there is a basic principle that says the consumer ultimately pays all taxes. talking about not the consumer. in new york state among we worked beyond the fourth of july to get our independence pat taxes.about 60% of our that includes the jurisdictions of federal, state, and local. it includes the county. the school district. the city. and other special districts. that covers the income tax system, a property tax system, a sales tax system. all of new york state. i think you people, both of you, have not mentioned that the consumer ultimately pays all taxes.

and your example of the mother going down and buying milk and paying a sales tax of $.10 or whatever you said it was -- that is only part of it because the store pays property taxes and the owner of the distribution products, the tracking system, they pay taxes. that is in the price of the milk before you put taxes on taxes. host: let me later on his call, a thought from ron on twitter saying all americans should take for the share of government services, even state and municipal. guest: think about what our taxes by. we want a strong military. we want police and fire protection. we want good roads. we want a good education system and we want a good public health system. there's a lot of things we want government to do, and those things cost money. the issue is, should all of us contribute to that? of course, most of us think all of us should. while we can talk about averages, the problem that makes people upset and makes people

think the system is not fair is that they see well-publicized cases like ge or warren buffett who pay a different rate than the rest of us pay. that really rankles those people. it is amazing to me that the corporations especially, you know, when they decide where to locate, they want to be somewhere that has good infrastructure, roads that can move their products, an airport close by. they want an educated work force. i want a nice place for their employees to live. yet so many of them don't think they have any obligation to help pay for those things. get all thosehey things and places like canada, u.k., ireland, switzerland, and lots of european countries. and all of those countries, they pay a lower corporate tax rate than they do in the u.s. both in terms of the statutory corporate great and the effective corporate tax rate at the end of the day.

so we have a corporate tax system that is too punitive and pushing companies outside the u.s.. we have fewer corporations in the u.s. now than we have had at any time since the 1970's. a are finding ways outside of the corporate tax regime and moving to the individual code. most businesses in the u.s. file under the individual code. that can change because taxes on that side have been raised. it is a very punitive system or business production of income. host: a viewer says on twitter -- hell us about the decline of real wages in the middle class and the texas compound the problem? guest: definitely taxes compound the problem. the preview caller mentioned this. the tax freedom day report that just came out. we do total out all the taxes and we do it by state. we count the local income taxes and the property taxes. in taxy do result freedom days going into april,

may, and june in some cases. there are a lot of taxes out there. the biggest one is the federal income tax by far. guest: the federal income tax of the biggest for a lot of people but for a lot of people it is not the biggest one. they have to contend with all the other taxes as well. when we compare the u.s. system with the countries in europe, we have to remember that all of those countries depend on a very consumption tax. i just don't see that happening here. host: in our last segment we something called tax extenders. talk about what they are and what they do on the budget and your perspective on this process we are seeing on capitol hill. ms. wilkins? guest: there is the biggest budget buster you never heard of, tax extenders are 55 provisions of the tax code that would just temporary when they

were and acted and every year or so they extend those for another year or two. collectively they cost about $50 billion a year. the 10-year estimate for those is 700 billion dollars. they are huge. most of them benefit businesses. two of them especially benefit profitses who shift overseas. they should not be extended. if we think they are good tax policy they ought to be made permanent and they ought to be paid for. if they are not good tax policy, the expire at the end of december, we should let them die. guest: i agree with almost all of that. bere is -- they should not temporary. no aspect of the tax code or the laws should be temporary. we should determine which are the useful provisions, the ones that are beneficial in terms of generally agreed-upon terms. investment, economic growth, hiring, etc., etc. attempted, anden

they are having hearings right now in both the house and senate to determine the merit of these different provisions, so we will see what shakes out. but some of them are very important, particularly bonus depreciation -- expensing investment for business rather than the complicated process of writing off for decades. there are other provisions that benefit is missed. active financing is a very arcane sounding thing. compete the banks abroad, puts them on a level playing field with other banks operating abroad. so these are temporary provisions that matter a lot for businesses. host: should they be incorporated in the tax code altogether rather than piecemeal extending it? guest: there is disagreement about them, which is why they are always passed piecemeal. we need to come to some sort of

agreement as to which meet merit and which don't and pass those which have merit on a permanent basis. host: what about merit for some of these extenders? guest: there might be a few that all to be made permanent but we think they would be very few. art of the problem is congress is trying to influence behavior through the tax code and it is not a very efficient or effective way to do that. and a lot of cases, a spending program would be a lot more efficient and effective meeting the goal they want to meet. the most egregious part of this whole process right now is that the senate finance committee just reported the extender's bill out of committee without any pay for, so there is no revenue offset. on the other hand, they can't pass the unemployment insurance extension because they can't find a way to pay for it. but they are willing to extend $50 billion a year in primarily corporate tax breaks without any revenue. harbor,thony from palm

florida. democrats line. caller: first, i want to thank rebecca --can you hear me? host: if you are listening to your television, speak on the phone. caller: it is on need. justice is onex of my go to websites. you give great information and i appreciate you on the show today. great facts. i think if you listen to the gentleman, i just think that you keep talking about this burden on corporations and this tax burden and the high tax. corporations don't pay this high tax. very few of them pay the 35%, if any. 2008ffective tax rate in on average i understand for fortune 500 companies was 4.7%, last year, 12.7%. your listeners need to understand that you can throw

35% up there and put a spotlight on it but no one is paying that. i just want to thank citizens for tax justice for doing the right thing and educating theyone about the fact that working poor and the middle class our work -- paying more as a percentage of income than the wealthy. guest: those are wrong numbers. the effective corporate tax rate that you cited four percent or 12%, those are flat wrong. again, i will refer you to academic studies on this published every year, they compare the u.s. to other countries. the u.s. generally has a corporate effective tax rate of about 25%. year after that way year. it has gone down recently because of the massive financial crisis and the massive losses that occurred over the last five years, causing write-offs going forward. 20's bys still in the every reasonable measure

according to irs data and data that is -- the bureau of economic analysis data, according to financial statement data looking at individual corporations as a citizens were tax justice does. what citizens for tax justice is emphasizing that the variation and a looking at some companies -- yes, and some years they don't pay any income tax. a lot of those companies are not paying corporate income tax because they do not have profited that year and they are not legally supposed to pay taxes on non-profits. it is a profit tax. a lot of other issues with their analysis. i would refer you to the academic studies that do this in a more holistic way using various data sets to find a corporate effective rate of about 20 five percent. guest: our corporate tax study excludes companies that have losses because we know they don't pay tax rate would look about -- fortune 500 and we

included only companies often will all five years of the study and we found a lot were not paying tax. while we have been going through recessions, we have been doing and thedy since 1984 corporate effective tax rate has never been much over half of the statutory rate. the problem is the outliers. retailers, for example, are paying pretty close to the 35% rate while high-tech is playing -- paying in the single digits. utilities are paying negative tax rate and transportation to paying higher. because of the special tax breaks in the code. because the way the rules are written where some types of income is taxed differently and some types of businesses get bigger deductions, there are credits that in effect certain types of activity, all the competitions in the tax code. guest: i would refer you to irs data -- it is on their website,

easily accessible. you can look at the total number,and the average and it will not show you returned by return data. you have to get financial statements from companies to look at that. here have been studies and they say using financial statements on average operations pay 25%. some companies do not pay that every year in and year out. some pay way more than 35%. so there is massive variation. there is the profit issue. inre were massive losses 2000 7, 2008, 2009 and they wrote those offer years and years and continue to write them off in some cases. there is the foreign profit issue. this is not counting taxes on foreign profits abroad. is -- are many studies out there doing this in a very open

and transparent way and i refer you to the academic studies. host: let's go to peter in st. petersburg, florida, on the republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am really enjoying the program. you guys are definitely covering a lot of things that have been really bothering me lately. i have been reading articles on the white house. an old article, increasing taxes on the middle class -- consumer spending. also on cnn that got an article called how america is rigged for the rich. i think a caller from new york hit on a lot of these topics. benefit america if the taxes for the rich and how how doesso sheltered, our government to believe that lowering their taxes so they can keep reinvesting in the economy and that is the way our economy is setting up right now -- however, i don't see any

benefit? i just see me and my family, our taxes is going up and our income is going down, on everything. guest: that is really the problem with our current system, is that the rules are so complicated and there are so many special tax breaks for different types of income and different types of taxpayers that a lot of wealthy people and a lot of big corporations are able to really aggressively lower their tax bill, maybe not a terribly legally, and pay lower rates than a lot of middle or low income people are paying. i think that is why people don't think the taxes them is fair, they are right. guest: the tax system is not fair. people are right about that. effective rates for corporations are very high, though, as i said, 25% on average. and on average for individuals it is about 10%. one caller mentioned another of the, about 50% population does not pay the federal income tax, the personal income tax. so it is very skewed to the high the with the rich paying

vast majority of it. the top 10% pay about 70% of the federal income taxes. skewed, and ivery think this creates a lot of complexity. that is one source of the complexity. we need to get to a flatter system where everyone is treated equally. the out the complexity of deductions, the various special treatment features, for sure, but the income tax is inherently complex. we need to get away from an income tax. host: do you think we will ever see a major change -- change to the tax code as we know it? guest: are to predict. hundred years. it started out as a tax on the one percent. it was a very small tax. it did not raise a lot of revenue. since then, it has become the major dominant source of revenue

for the federal government. and it has become more and more progressive and shifted the burden more and more to the high end and a source of major redistribution in the federal code. guest: the income set -- tax, the highest source of revenue and the individual income tax and payroll taxes make up 82% of the federal government's revenue. corporations only contribute 12% in the most recent years we had numbers for. work fork people that a living have every right to be upset. host: on this tax day, joined by two people who follow the issue closely. you heard from rebecca wilkins, citizens for tax justice and you [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> tomorrow on "washington

journal," -- lee goodman will discuss how the agency has been affected by the recent supreme court decision on campaign contributions and kate johnson, senior reporter with "foreign policy," on relations between russia and europe. live on c-span everyday at 7:00 a.m. eastern. join the conversation on facebook and twitter. tuesday was the anniversary of the bombings of the boston marathon. up next, two journalists talk about the book they are working on that examines the attack that they are working on from the past year. markingur, the ceremony the anniversary than a former secretary henry paulson on the chinese economy.

flex of the duke administrators who were not lawyers gave the kids bad legal advice which was, essentially, don't tell your parents, don't get lawyers, cooperate with the police, and basically this will go away. duke thought they had legal exposure because of that. that, there was the desire to make this go away, protect the duke brand, make that much of is decided these kids were innocent that the last thing duke wanted was to then litigate about all of what had happened. the easiest course of action was & give this $20 million nondisclosure and non-disparagement agreements that you explains why they have not talked to me or anybody since they settled.

it's not exactly clear why duke felt the need to pay these kids. get, unfortunately, wrongly convicted all the time and there are places like the innocence project to defend tose kinds of people and try reverse the judgments that were made. examples of people wrongly convicted for murder who spent getears in prison and $20,000 in payments per year as a result. hour than the arraignment or two, they spent no time in jail, no time in prison, and got $20 million. " the price of silence," looking at the duke lacrosse scandal. >> now on the bombings from last

year's boston marathon. the book is based on their investigation of the attack and what has happened in the years since. i spoke at fisher college for one hour. -- they spoke at fisher college. [applause] >> thank you. first, i would like to say thank you to our interns from fisher college. we have a group of really dedicated students that have been working with dave and i over the past several months to transcribe interviews, talk about the timeline of the bombing, timeline about some of the secondary stories that came out of the aftermath to this. some of the secondary stories that came out of the aftermath to this. i want to thank them. i want to thank jan courtney for this incredible opportunity, especially the fact that dave and i are sitting down. i am very short so when i stand next to him i look like his son. i have written about the best of the human condition. i have also written about the

worst of the human condition. with "boston strong" we found a little bit of both. once this happened, some publishers started to approach me and ask if i would write a book about the tragedy. at first, i didn't want to. i wanted to stay far away because a writer like myself, i need that his store coal -- that his store coal -- that histori cal perspective because that is very viable. this event was happening in real time. it is so complex, large. i had a different angle on how i wanted to approach the story so i asked my editor, let me ask you a question. ofyears after the events 9/11, can you name two of the hijackers that flew those planes? he couldn't do that. you can name one which a lot of us can name but he couldn't name anyone else. that is exactly right. nobody cares about them.

they committed an atrocity against humankind, but the stories that resonate from 9/11 are the stories of heroism and survival. when i decided to start working on this book, i reached out to my good friend dave wedge. he has been the boots on the ground lead writer for the boston herald for much of the marathon aftermath and such. >> yeah. since been at the herald 1999. my job on the day of the marathon was to report city hall. we have a pretty small staff so whenever a major breaking news story happens it is all hands on deck. that day i was on my way over to city hall when the alms went off. - - bombs went off. i was thrust into action to start covering the story and i remained as one of the lead reporters for the next week. when the watertown situation

unfolded, i was sent out in the middle of the night and i was sent to watertown and i got there shortly after the bullets stopped flying. i was there in the midst of that chaos. i stayed there right through they caught dzhokhar tsarnaev. after that happened, a couple months went by and it was still a big part of my job to cover what happened and the fallout from the whole tragedy. talking to a lot of the victims and survivors and such. casey reached out to me and he was looking for his next book project. we have been friends for a long time. such a big it is story that really requires two people to telik properly. it was a perfect match. >> our deadline is late may so we wanted to take this story through the first anniversary. that is really the only way to

tell it. we wish we had more time because it is so massive. we know some of the statistics from the marathon bombing. over 260 people wounded, three people on-site killed. m.i.t. police officer executed days later. why those reasons numbers are so huge -- one of the reasons why the death toll was relatively low for something like this was because of these and other numbers. overg the boston marathon, 800 boston police officers were assigned to the route. over 400 volunteers working the street that day. 13 and villages were on standby. another 17 were rushed the boylston street after the bombings happened. workact that we live and

in the greatest medical city in the world, all of the responding hospitals were trainingn trauma one certainly kept those numbers low. any of the survivors and victims that were brought to any of the hospitals after the boston marathon, they all lived. that is an incredible testament to the incredible work that was done on boylston street by ordinary people. the incredible testament to the work that was done in the hospitals that day and several days afterwards. there were two bombing suspects into locations -- in two loca tions. this was the first location on boylston street. lks you would fo hear about little more as a woman named michelle. i will show you michelle in this

picture. this is michelle right here. believe, is in this general area over here. that picture was taken a few minutes before the bombs exploded. see atbers -- you can least 500 people are there. people are moving back and forth as if this is happening. in my opinion, everyone down there is a survivor. everyone in the picture is a survivor. you're about the numbers casey is talking about -- 260 people injured, four killed. what we have learned their injuries you cannot see. they maybe didn't lose a limb or have physical injuries, they are severely traumatized. a lot of ptsd and a lot of them have dramatic brain injuries which we will talk about another

person and are broke that experience that. >> the second location was right in front of the restaurant. this photo you can see one of the suspects in the middle of the photograph. that is dzhokhar tsarnaev, dubbed white hat by the fbi because they didn't know his identity but they had seen him during the course of the week on several videos and several surveillance photos. his actions were unlike any of the actions from anybody that was either running away from the scene or running towards the survivors and the wounded. he was very launcelot -- nonchalant. he got out of there pretty quickly. to the right of him, you can see the family of martin richard. you see jean richard, martin staring straight ahead in front of his father. we are going to talk more about them as we move on here. the suspect themselves, black hat and white cat.

tamerlan tsarnaev and dzhokhar ans whov, two chechy moved to massachusetts in the early 2000's. their parents had left turmoil in chechnya. they lived in cambridge. their father was a mechanic. their mother did odd jobs as well. a student however he was an incredible athlete and a -- and an amateur boxer with a -- with olympic aspirations. his younger brother was an athlete as well and both of these young men were deemed as the bright lights in their families. they had two older or middle-aged sisters i got into some trouble over the years as well. over the course of time, tamerlan tsarnaev and his father and his mother got disillusioned

with their lives in america. they began to really become radicalized in local mosques and on the internet. he got hiser, brother involved as well. this is what they've talked about. the explosion in front of marathon sports. >> this explosion was the first one. it went up about 30 feet roughly, the shrapnel and the damage to the building. if you're out on boylston street after that bomb went off, you can look up at the buildings above and the windows were blown out up three stories. at this site, michelle was there. this was where -- krystle campbell was there. >> she was one of the fatal

victims in this attack. this is a shot of emts working on the body of krystle campbell. >> this picture here was taken by a woman who we interviewed for the book who was at the mandarin oriental. event a big, very swank that day with a lot of politicians, celebrities, business men and women. the the bombs went off, windows of the mandarin oriental literally shook. the woman who took this picture, megan johnson, a writer for people magazine, she was the one who took this picture right after that. tragedy fora double the family of krystle campbell. her parents had been told that she survived. they rushed to mass general hospital where they were looking for. all -- her daughter.

they went into the recovery room and they were shown this woman lying on the bed and it was not her daughter -- their daughter. it was crystal's friend. the mixup there and all of that phone anden had a krystle campbell's drivers license. way staffersly write in a fine the victims at that point. you can imagine the elation of hearing that your daughter andive the massive attack then just the utter horror. this is michelle. >> michelle is 39. she is originally from maine. she was an equestrian student in college. should competitive horseback riding from the time she was a little girl.

sports, was at marathon she was there watching her boyfriend who was running the marathon. just before the bombs went off, her boyfriend had come by, slow down where she was, told her that he loved her and he finished the marathon. he went to grab his bag off the bus, took a shower. in that time, the bomb went off and you didn't hear from michelle after that. he didn't know what was going on. michelle suffered pretty serious injuries. a large chunk of the back every five was brought off -- blown off. her bicep was torn off and she lost 50% of her hearing. she never fell down. that is one of the things that casey and i -- why we focus on her because she is just a strong person that you get to know her. she is an amazing woman. she never fell down. she walked into marathon sports

and she kind of stumbled her way into their. re. she said she didn't feel any pain. the folks in there realized how badly she was hurt. she was basically -- her life was saved by four just regular citizens. three people that work at marathon sports and another civilian that was there. they tied tourniquets on her arm and leg. the doctors have told her that they not only saved her life but they probably saved her limbs. today, michelle is back running. on is doing a 5k race saturday and she has been back skiing. she is going to be horseback riding again for the first time in a few weeks. >> what we love a michelle is she is the daughter of a maine firefighter. one of the houses adopted her so to speak while she was recovering. every day while she was at the

hospital, there was a firefighter assigned to visit her, to bring her things, etc. she has a family well beyond her little home town in maine. , everypoint in the book time i look at it and when we wrote it we laughed because michelle had such a great spirit. as she was being lifted into the amulet and as the amulet was en route to the hospital -- ambulance was en route to the hospital, a cap hitting -- it kept hitting the potholes. she kept focusing on the bleeping potholes on the road. mary daniel is also incredibly inspirational survivor. you hate to call these people victims because they are survivors. mary daniel lost her leg in the bombing. mary daniel was a medical student. she was working on her medical board the day of the marathon. she was an immigrant from haiti.

came over from the united states -- to the united states, went to umass, medical school. she never had really been to the marathon before. she had only been once in her life. she was studying. she was getting a little stir crazy because it was a tough winter for all of us. it was a beautiful spring day. she wanted to enjoy it. mary also has a five-year-old daughter and she wanted to get outside. mary thought it was a great opportunity to go to the marathon. tiara is this five-year-old ball of rubber and she bounces off every wall in her apartment. she's a high-energy little girl. she might lose her daughter in a crowd that size so at the last moment, mary made a decision to leave her daughter home with her husband. merry gets the boylston street and within seconds the bomb goes off. mary is medically trained.

mary can see the wounds of that she has experienced. the leg that was taken from her, she didn't think that would be the leg it would envy take. her up -- they would amputate. as a she is lying on boylston street, lying next to jeff, allher cvictim, and seeing the carnage around her, two things are going through her mind -- am i going to die? god, i didn't bring my daughter. she is incredibly resilient woman. they talked about michelle training and running again. mary is going to be running in the marathon. she is going to be peddling. aling. she is not going to let this tragedy impact the way she lives her life. also at marathon sports that day, jeff bowman, who has become

one of the symbols of the boston marathon tragedy. rlos are going to be commencement speakers here at fisher college in may which is a fantastic because you folks are going to really understand jeff's story. we spent a lot of time with them. >> we will get to the france trip. this picture i actually took. it was taken at the state house right across the street a few months ago. was given an award named after one of the stewardesses on one of the flake -- one of the flights of 9/11. it was a state euro award they give every year and they give it to carlos that day. that is the thing you will see when you hear carlos and jeff speak. they have become inseparable. they become almost a father and son like bond that we were able

to see firsthand. we since became friendly with them. it is really an incredible thing to see how they help each other and how much they mean to each other. it is very genuine. carlos, i don't know how much you know about him, he lost his sons. one of his sons died in iraq. his other son committed suicide in 2011. this is carlos here. might've a lot of you sought on tv, carlos was wheeling jeff to safety and is credited for saving his life. they have been next to each other side. >> despite catastrophic injuries jeff suffered, he was still able to help the fbi identify the bombing suspects. tamerlan tsarnaev, he saw him

before the bombs went off. he thought they looked suspicious and one of his friends motioned him for something else and he turned his head, when he turned it back tamerlan was gone. the very next day, jeff asked for a pen or pencil i should say and he scribbled i saw them. carlos, his caregiver and hero, carlos was considered a suspect by the fbi in the hours after the bombing. as david mentioned, carlos lost both of his sons in the 2000's. when he was first notified of his son's death in iraq, carlos had a breakdown. he tried to commit suicide and it was captured on local television in florida. it was a highly publicized event. when the fbi saw pictures of carlos on boylston street that day, they became suspicious and they questioned him.

he gave them all the information that they needed. he gave them photographs taken from his camera. he gave them his sneakers and the close he wore -- clothes he wore. the people that are coming to him wereccopmpanied incredulous to the fact that carlos could ever do something to another human being because he does -- you bring such light to other people's lives. he says it was divine intervention that led him to boylston street that day. thisecond bombing site -- bomb literally ignited seconds after the first bombing ignited. when tamerlan tsarnaev visited 2012, ave country in year before the bombings, he got in touch with possibly three people, including one young jihadist who had just pulled off

a very similar suicide bombing. two detonations that were triggered within seconds of each other. the first detonation, the first bomb is to kill the people in the vicinity. the second bomb is always detonated to kill first responders. that is a common practice by terrorists across the world. we believe that is one of the lessons that tamerlan tsarnaev did learn while he was there. this bomb killed two people. gzi yu and eight-year-old martin richard. this is the richard family. the opportunity to spend a lot of time with a lot of the close friends to talk about how they have been impacted by what happened. how they have been moving

forward over the past year. >> they actually happen to live not far from me. they live in dorchester. bill richard is a very well known guy. he is a democratic activist. he worked on governor patrick's campaign. his wife denise worked at the marian manor which is a well-known senior citizens center in south boston. then worked on congressman stephen lynch his campaign -- lnyynch's campaign. they chose to live in that section of dorchester because they know the importance of community. they took this old house and it resources,ut all the all the money into it to make it a really nice house. their thinking is, if we stay here, we are one more nice

family and maybe that will help make the city more vibrant. it is become a gathering place where on christmas bill would have open houses and the whole neighborhood would come in. it is a really nice family. are actually doing a lot better than people might think they are. they are heartbroken and devastated by the loss of martin, but they are just as inspired the way jane who lost her leg, the little girl, has bounced back and the way she has shown incredible resilience and getting back to being a little kid. >> the richard family had a decision to make -- that they can either go to the marathon or go hiking. they chose the marathon. when they were in this position at forum when the first bomb went off, bill richard knew it was a bomb. a lot of spectators we talk to, a lot of first responders

thought it could've been a transformer fire, a cannon that was used as part of the pageantry of -- a manhole fire. bill richard knew it was a bomb and he knew he had to get his family away from there as quickly as possible. bill richard jumped the barricade and got on to boylston street because he thought his family would be much safer on the street than they would on the sidewalk. >> they were at the second bombing. they heard the first one and bill reached over the fence and grabbed henry, the oldest boy. >> he was directly in front of bill. as he was pulling henry to safety, he was reaching to his next child, martin, and that is when the bomb went off. we learned that dzhokhar tsarnaev, the bombing suspect, had chosen that family. he targeted that family. there is fbi surveillance film that shows him casing that

family, going back and forth behind them before he drops that backpack. how do you rip the heart out of america? you choose an all-american family and that is what he did. alive after the bombing for a few seconds. the only words he ever uttered were, "where is jane?" jane is his younger sister. jane was almost torn apart. she lost her leg. her life was saved by first responders. their mother suffered severe injuries to her eye and other parts of her body. one of the things that we found out in the course of writing this book was that the day of the bombing, as martin richard's body was -- remained on boylston street because it was part of the crime scene and the fbi would not remove it -- his body

was lying under a sheet. the boston police were outraged. they wanted those victims off that street. they one of those victims reunited with their families wherever they were. one boston police officer said that -- i am not going to leave biscuit, not tonight. i am going to stay with them. i want his parents to know that he was never left alone. that is heroism. those of the stories we have learned over the course of the past year and they still choke us up because it is incredible what so many people did in the wake of this on for sick aboard tragedy -- unforsakable tragedy. this is the fourth victim. this is the m.i.t. police officer. dave and i never met him while he was alive but we feel like we know him intimately now because we spent a lot of time with his

family and we learned about what an incredible young man sean was. >> he really was. he was an officer with the m.i.t. police department. he was just about to get on the somerville police. classmates and roommates with richard donahue who was the officer who ended up being shot at watertown. sean was just on patrol, a routine patrol. he knew the suspects were at large, like every other member of the law enforcement community, but he had no reason to believe they were in cambridge tonight. he had plans to meet a friend after he was done with his shift. one of the last texts he sent from his phone was to a girl who

was a friend of his, and said, let's meet up later on. hime guys came up behind and executed him in cold blood from behind. he never saw them, never had a chance. another thing caught on surveillance video, and they tried to get his gun. they could not get his gun, because m.i.t. had recently given their officers new holsters with a specialized way you have to push it down and turn it to get it out. it is a safety lock. decisive for this sort of situation. so that is what happened to sean. >> that was thursday, april 8, three days after the bombings. president obama came for and interfaith healing service in boston. later that afternoon, the fbi held a news briefing. that is where they shared their surveillance pictures of black hat and white hat. right before sean had gone on his shift that night, he shared their surveillance pictures on

his facebook page. he know several hours later he would be seeing them in real life, and they would take his life. sean has a large extended family. it is like the brady bunch. and a older sisters younger brother, and they are a blended family, and a very loving family. when dave and i sat down with them, we said, we want to learn about sean the brother, the son. we want to learn what music you like. if he was a pain in neck, tell us about it. no brother is perfect. tois our job as writers paint a full picture of this young man. it was interesting because the as we were up to us

leaving and said, we want to thank you. we said, we want to thank you. this has been an incredibly inspiring and humbling experience for us. i said, why do you want to thank us? the family said, over the past several months, we have never had the time and spend the time to sit around and talk about sean. we have had to honor him and various events. we never sit around the dining room table and share these stories about our brother. they thanked us for that. it was an incredible honor. tohave such a responsibility the family of all the survivors. we have a responsibility to the families and victims to tell their story right. a lot of life in those years. a young man who did a lot in the civic community. time he was 15 years

old, he started raising money for the jimmy fund. he saw the telethons on tv and heard them on sports radio. he literally would collect money from his neighbors in his neighborhood. he did that right up until he passed away. that gives anct image of what kind of a person he was is, he wasn't m.i.t. police officer. he wanted to join another department, a city department. he had an opportunity before he started with m.i.t. to go to another town. the town of lincoln. he had already told m.i.t. he was going to become a police officer. yes, i accept the job. at the time, lincoln had offered him a job. he would rather have worked in a town than at the college. but he made a commitment to m.i.t., and he went to the chief. he said, i have an opportunity to take this job at lincoln, but

i want to work for you. the chief said, do what is best for you. he said, i gave you my word. i am going to work for you. he probably should have never been there. but commitment meant everything to him. >> that photo is pretty funny. it shows sean collier cooking. his sister told us he never cooked. he ate takeout for much of his adult life. to showthat photo was them that he could cook if you needed to. what an incredible young man he was. to hourse getting later, the day after the lockdown in the city, which many locked ine probably your apartments or in your homes. dave, you were out there. >> after sean collier was brothers the two

carjacked the guy. they drove to watertown. when they escaped stopped for gas or snacks or something. tracked by the police through gps to watertown. he gets to watertown, and the watertown police are alerted, it is in your neighborhood. officer reynolds from watertown picks up the vehicles emcees, i have it. at the time, they did not know it was related to the marathon, or even the killing of sean collier. they just know they got a 911 call from a carjacking victim. the officers in watertown were prepared for what was about to unfold. kidsought it was some punk who carjacked somebody in cambridge and were going to run into the woods. what ended up happening is what you all know and saw on tv, and it ended up being an incredible should out will stop amazing

examples of heroism. these officers, reynolds, mcclellan, and a couple other watertown officers got into a toe to toe firefight with tamerlan tsarnaev and his brother. and they were able to take down tamerlan and the younger brother escaped in the suv, tried to run down the cops as he sped away, and actually ran over his own brother. hit a couple of cruisers, dumped the other car, and hit in the boat you see there. officersown police were not trained for armed combat. that is basically what this was. this was a battle in the middle of the street. save their own lives, but the lives of so many others as well. >> they made a lot of gut decisions that might that save not only their lives, but

probably the lives of their brother officers and other folks as well. officerhat shoot out, donahue, mbta police officer -- once the bullets started flying, police from all over the region came in. boston, cambridge, somerville, arlington, lexington, mbta, state police. donahue was shot by aaron from fire during that shooting. he severed his femoral artery and nearly died on the street. of quickother example actions. they tied candidates on his leg. he was brought to mount auburn hospital. they saved his life. >> his heart had actually stopped. the incredible staff at mount auburn literally got his pulse back. when his wife reached the hospital, that is when they told her that he should not be here. but he is for now.

he is doing well today, which is amazing. >> i will explain the shootout. tsarnaevdzhokhar escapes from the scene, dumps the suv, ran off on foot, one of the biggest manhunts that has ever happened in this nation's history unfolded. the boston police took control of the scene. it became clear it was the marathon suspects. they cordoned off a 20 block perimeter of the neighborhood. they started going grade by grade. i was out in the middle of that. as soon as sean collier was shot, i flew right to watertown. i got in there, and the car ended up getting close into the perimeter, and it was there until the duration. i was there through the whole thing and watched this unfold.

there was armed swat teams from all over the region. there were tanks. it was a world scene. at the time, no one knew where he was. he could have gotten on a train. he could've carjacked somebody again. he could have fallen in the charles river. there was speculation maybe he swum across the river. for roughly 20 hours, there was no trace of the guy. there were a couple of hits on his blog. wherethere at one house the dogs hit on his blood. he had ran through that backyard and they had lost the scent. there were so many people running back and forth and so many police officers that the dogs were thrown off. they could not follow the scent. a lot of people say, why didn't you find him? that is why. they could not track him. gottenere reports he had

on a bus, gotten on a train, and made his way to connecticut. this was happening overnight. at some point overnight, the mayor or governor decided, we cannot let the train start running. we have to shut down the transportation system and find this guy. obviously, it was a lockdown situation for several hours. i thought this was the biggest citizens arrest in american history, because it was not only law enforcement that track this guy. these were grandmothers. these were kids pushing their mugs out on social media. whatbody in this city -- makes boston strong is because we are incredibly resilient. we might have our disagreements, but when the foreign invader enters our area, we all band together. that is exactly what happened. the one funny aside during this entire thing -- when the

lockdown was lifted and governor patrick was on his way home, he called his wife, and he was hungry. he had not eaten much that day. diane was hungry. she asks him to pick up some type food at a local place they love in quincy. when he is at the restaurant, he is getting the thai food. he gets the call they have a suspect in the boat. he has a carton of type food. what is he going to do? he has to feed his family. he calls his wife. get you yourll dinner, but i have to go back and find the suspect. that is what he did. >> it is pretty unbelievable. ad the way he was found -- neighbor, the guy who lived at the house went out for a cigarette. in violation of the lockdown, i might add. the guy wanted a cigarette.

a little bitat was uncovered and he said, that looks weird. he went over to pull it, and he noticed blood on it. he lifted up, and he saw the kid in there. called 911. that is how the whole thing came down. >> a month later, dave and i were the only journalists invited on a healing cruise to the south of france, with over 100 survivors of the boston marathon bombing. it was an incredible nine days we were writing about. we also wrote about it for esquire magazine as well. if you search our names in esquire, you will get to read the very impactful, powerful article. we really looked into the eyes of the survivors, and sought incredible resilience. to tell theirr story in our book, "boston strong." thank you very much. [applause]

>> we are going to open it up now. i can try to run the might to you, but it might be easier if you could step up. >> i think the tv cameras are scaring people today. we can talk a little bit more about that incredible cruise. this is a shot of carlos arredondo and some of the other survivors on the deck of the ship. this was an incredible donation by a local boston company, that spent half $1 million to take all of these survivors, all-inclusive trip 49 days to france. fat is some of them in lyon, rance. an interesting picture. this is carlos and the father of lingzi lu. know him ai got to

little bit on the cruise. he and his wife had traveled there from beijing. they could not speak english. they had a translator who could barely speak english. they were in so much pain. you could see it in their faces. you could see it on the shoulders of this dad who lost his daughter. and the person that got him out of his shell, so to speak, was carlos. carlos also suffered loss of his sons. here are two man who talked in a language all their own. sorrow, andguage of it was a language of strength as well. over the course of those days, we started to see a smile form on the lips of that dad. it was amazing. >> the way the trip came together is a pretty incredible story. hank lewis, the owner of the company, had done a trip for the families of fallen soldiers.

carlos was one of them who was invited on a previous trip to the wounded warriors. owner of the cruise company new carlos from that trip. when hank saw the marathon tragedy unfold on tv, he saw carlos. he said, that is the guy. we took him on a trip once. on, hank andwent his wife said, how can we help? .e want to do something he decided, let's donate a cruise to these people. carlos is the first person they reached out to. >> carlos has been so giving over the past year. the compassion and generosity of not only people in boston, but people all over the world that have extended donations to these survivors. the survivor is bill white. -- fighterfighting pilot in vietnam.

survived several combat missions, only to have his legs taken from him on boylston street. 71 years old, and he has to learn how to walk again. he did. it was not an easy trip. he took excursions all over these winding streets on -- wending streets. he was part of just about everything. this was a great photo. they became friends, and now they are almost best friends because of this trip. the whenas in front of the bomb detonated. suffered brain injury, and it has been hard for her to even do her job. they became fast friends in france. cluny, france.

all of a sudden, we see a very bird shirt. that photo personifies and exemplifies the friendship not only between sabrina and michelle, for the friendships that were made over the course of those 12 days, including many people dave and i met. not only because we are writing about them. friends and we want to make sure we get the story right. >> i read right after it happened that watertown -- was it a destination, or were they passing through? >> they were just passing through, because he had stolen or carjacked a mercedes suv in brighton. windednd did -- they their way through watertown, where they had dzhokhar tsarnaev

's honda civic parked on a side street. they were literally taking out parts of their arsenal. remember, their ultimate plan was to get to times square in new york city for this incredibly bloody crescendo to the past week. fortunately, that did not happen. >> there may be some ties to the winter neighborhood. in cambridge was not far from that area. there is some speculation as to whether they might have gone to someone's house in that neighborhood as well. -- iagree that early on heard early on there was a cell. we live very close, so that was a personal concern. i heard there was a cell and he had been there. they had identified him as being in the watertown area. i never heard anything else. >> the other people who were charged with three friends from umass dartmouth. -- dzhokharme tsarnaev had some roommates that were accused of lying to the fbi

and withholding evidence. there was some dumb power and fireworks authority to leave -- authorities believed were used to build the bombs. they were found in his dorm room. his friends hid those from the fbi when they were initially questioned. allegedly. those three kids are charged. other conspirators, that is a no. >> was recommended to the murder in waltham? happened on september 11, 2012. >> 2011. >> three men were -- three --ish men were >> were executed. >> they had marijuana strangled on their bodies. lamb -- tamerlan tsarnaev and his friend were suspects in that murder. i was the thing that happened in florida, were told to shove --

todashev was being questioned and was killed in a confrontation with the police down there. according to the most recent report by the fbi, todashev cop ped to the murders and was signing a confession. >> there are so many questions to be answered that may not even be answered in our lifetimes. young man, do you have a question in the back? >> my name is daniel masten. the guy who went outside to smoke a cigarette was in violation. but he found the bombers. was he just let off the hook for that? >> i was joking about that. literally, you were not supposed to leave your house. but he was just in his yard having a cigarette. it was not a big deal. outside,had seen him they would have said, get back to my house. ands standing out there, the media, and we were moved from area to area. anybody who came out of their

house were forcibly said, go back inside. it, hisuck would have need for a cigarette found the kid. >> everything happens for a reason. >> there was also a photo that went viral that showed a boston police officer with two cartons of milk he had gotten for a family that could not violate the lockdown order, but this mother had children that needed morning cereal, and they had no milk. that was just one of those little vignettes that are so meaningful. yes, sir. >> thank you for a very enlightening presentation. there is this debate, or controversy, going on right now as to whether to charge tsarnaev with the death penalty. i am wondering if you have any insight to share as to how the survivors feel about that issue.

>> the decision has been made to put the death penalty on the table. that will be a decision the jury will make once they convict, if they convict. that will be part of the sentencing phase. they can decide life or give the death penalty. in our conversations with the folks on the ship in france, as with the general public, it ranges. some of them say, get rid of him. he has no right to breathe our air. others say, he should sit in jail and think about what he did, and that is a worse punishment, to think about martin richard and krystle campbell and lingzi lu for the rest of his life. the opinions really range among the survivors. some thatdefinitely are really angry, though, and yes, give him the death penalty. >> another question? >> i have a question.

i have got some friends down on the west coast who were local to boston, over a decade now. some of the facebook chatter was, maybe the real terrorist is the law enforcement who put watertown and the local community in this lock down with swat teams and machine guns, and that military-style response. did any of the folks you speak feeling as sort of that, they felt regarding as opposed to being here and knowing this one person was still at large, as compared to these folks who are so far removed, seeing what looked like a military invasion of 20 square blocks? >> there is definitely a controversy. the aclu expressed concerns about the lockdown. it was unconventional and unpopular.

at the end of the day, having been a crime reporter 20 years, it was the right decision. these kids were throwing bombs of the police. not firecrackers, bombs. they had already killed a cop. they had already shot another police officer that was bleeding out. it is easy for somebody in l.a. to say, 1200 cops have to lock down a city to catch one kid. they were doing a lot terror, and you had to do something to stop him. what if they did not lock down the city and the kid throws one of those bombs on the red line and blows it up? >> that is where the decision began earlier that morning. the second bombing suspect was looking to escape. how do you cut off his escape route? you shut down buses. you shut down the mbta. it grew from there. at the end of the day, we think it was the right decision to make. if you second guess -- if

somebody else was killed and you second guess that, we have seen a lot of the crime scene photos. we have seen families who have lost their loved ones. to think and overreach or overextension of police power save somebody's life that day -- we will take that any day. >> i have spoken to people through the course of my reporting, though, that live in that area that think it was excessive, and are not -- they do not want it to become a precedent-setting matter, where police can log down an entire city anytime they want. in my opinion, 20 years of covering crime, this was an extremely, extremely intense, rare scenario, that we will never hopefully see again in our lifetime. i do not think we are at any risk of police starting to lockdown neighborhoods just or look for guys. >> you just mentioned how you

have been on the journalistic side for 20 years. do you think social media played a huge aspect? you said positively, the more negatively, when it came to the manhunt aspect. so many people were following it will stop do you think maybe they saw that everyone else knew what they were doing, and it fueled the fire? >> there were a couple of things that happened with social media during the manhunt. there is a whole thing on reddit . that it had a hole for him -- re whole- reddit had a forum of photos taken before and after the bombings. people were analyzing the pictures and circle i think people they ought -- circling people they thought looked suspicious. --se would be detectives that was damaging. it ended up in "the new york post." it put kids on the front page of "the new york post," circled in

red. it said "bagmen." there was a memo sent to police. it turned out those guys had nothing to do with it all stop it might be fun for people to try to solve a crime in their house. it was not productive to law enforcement. the other thing is, the night of the shootout, there was a kid, alex, the neighbor -- clients berg or something. he was live tweeting the shootout. his pictures have become evidence. he was taking pictures out his window. those are evidence in the federal trial, which is important. oftreated those out, kind real-time, but that was productive. victors.e have those this is tamerlan tsarnaev, this is dzhokhar tsarnaev, this is the car, the license plate, the bombs. citizent was not only

journalists making mistakes. "the boston globe" made mistakes in the need to get information out there quickly. there was a report later that week that a suspect was in custody and was being arraigned at the federal courthouse. there was no suspect in courthouse -- in custody and nobody was being arraigned, but it brought the world media to the federal courthouse for several hours, while they were trying to figure out what was misinformation. age, one of the challenges dave and i had writing this book is, what is true? what is misinformation? what do you go with? that week, journalists did an incredible job, but also did themselves a disservice in many ways, just for trying to get that story out there as quickly as they could. >> i am pretty active on twitter. that day, i was live tweeting from the lockout, the lockdown.

i was basically tweeting where i was, what was going on. the swat team searched the house. i got calls from law enforcement that asked me to stop tweeting my location, because it was jeopardizing everybody that was there. if they did have a cell they were working with, maybe they would monitor a journalist's twitter, and they can call and say, they are in that house. get out. or they are on their way to that house. it was intense. >> one more question. >> i wanted to start off for doingou guys this. it's been very enlightening. i think a lot of us are learning pieces of the puzzle that we didn't previously know so i really appreciate you guys being here. >> thank you. my question is, it's sort of something i have been wondering for the last year. of stories a lot from survivors. we've heard from the families of

victims. we've heard a lot from law enforcement, people who were on the scene but it seems like one of the people we haven't really from, or heard any widow ofhas been the tamerlan tsarnaev. he's sort of been hidden from view. it's been very sort of vague as to what she knew, what she know. the i think a lot of people are left with -- >> that's where the status is right now. of unansweredt questions and misteries surrounding this case. involvement or lack of involvement is one of the biggest mysteries that still be solved and unlocked. thus far, she has not been charged with anything in relation to the bombings but still working that angle to the story and even though if learn later her role or lack thereof, we'll can.e the book when we >> you should look, i believe it

news" it a story on sunday about her and the mystery surrounding her. she's a free citizen. she's living with her family, i of statesomewhere out and the one thing that is important to know about her is houseearched the obviously and they found all sorts of bomb making materials allegedly at the house and none of her d.n.a. or fingerprints up on any of these materials so that's the presumption of innocence there with her. for beingou guys here. [applause] [captions performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014]

a little more -- this is a little more than an hour. [applause] >> thank you. thank you very much. biden, colonel patrick, mayor walsh. [laughter] some things change. afternoon. i am so glad to

see so many people. so many of you here today. i'm very blessed to be here. we know that this day will always be hard. never be easy to be close to that place. our eyes are part. for allalways be hard of us. who wish we were someplace else. we long to to be anywhere but here in this moment. 365 days in our after hate and violence disrupted a beautiful april day. tearsmories still bring to our eyes and heart aches, it is still a comfort to be here with family and friends who got us through that tragic day. it is an honor to thank the firstresponders --

responders who carried some of you to safety. they stop the bleeding and close your ones. the center lives in you are here with us. world a better place. i know that many of you don't you have you are and struggled to get through the know,ays and the bad, i as so many of you have told me year of firsts. first birthday without your beloved son. your holiday without daughter. thefirst july 4 where fireworks scared you, the first firstn a new leg, the sleep without a nightmare, the first day when you believed you a waylive your life in that corresponded with your dreams. us haverds so many of

used to describe a year of grief resilience,, courage and strength. those words have even greater meaning now because of what you have endured, what you have survived brings truth to words, "the world breaks for everyone and at therds make us strong broken places." for the family and friends who will always miss your loved ones, you are strong at this broken place. the victims and their long journey towards healing has just this, you are strong at broken place. to those that ran toward the and struggled with the sights and sounds of that day, you, too, are strong at this place. that strength thrives even in the heartaches of today because because of the compassion that took hold of the generosity

resides in our people, it's the boston, it's a mighty force. hour, a new p.o. everyom 50 countries and state 195,000 people gave. no one had to ask. call. had to make a phone no one had to explain the life-long care you would need. to give.re ready helped us stand. there were bake sales and pizza parties. people gave to a tip jar from a in pittsburgh. they prayed for you. they wrote notes like terry alaska,from juneau, said it best. she wrote, "boston's people are and thebeautiful, kind best. you, we, can make it through hard times." now i know that some of you can't hear me very well.

not just because of the fancy way i talk. huh.guys, [laughter] some ofause you lost your hearing that day. maybe it's a little bit of both. have to because i want you to hear the solemn promise. when lights dim and cameras go away, know that i support and love for you will never waver. whatever you have to do to on, know thatrry the people of boston, are right by your side. one year ago, you came to the city and stood along a 26.2 mile route to cheer for your loved ones, to applaud your friends, as strangers ran pushing wheelchairs, stride by side, the blind. celebrate theo strength of spirit, you admired

the resilience as they crossed line.llow and blue you will do all of that and more. you, rememberwith with you, will never forget what this day means to you. i will never forget and long races areown great finished, the people who followed us will look to you as much as they admire the runners pounding down our beloved streets, they'll remember what courage and how your it one ofsity make the strongest and most hallowed grounds here on earth. this day will always be hard. this place will always be strong because we gather here today with memories, our grief, our glorious resolve to stand for the people in a city we love our hearts. thank you very much.

[applause] >> a year ago today we chose to run towards smoke and danger.

we chose to utilize our belts createse straps to tourniquets. we chose to hold the injured in our arms. we chose to offer our hearts to oure in despair and treasures to those in need. hashose to love and that made all the difference. in the days that followed, we continued to express profound sowing the threads of community. safe again,city gave blood, performed and underwent countless surgeries began the long journey of psychological and physical rehabilitation. our hospitals showed why they are the best in the world, not through their clinical expertise but by their enormous compassion. us heree many of

struggled to heal within those hospital walls, a movement coalesced throughout our city, state and country, boston with a a simple phrase not-so-simple meaning, became our uniting call. it symbolizing our communal determination to spread compassion, generosity, unity and pride. is the firefighter running toward danger and the police officer ensuring our safety. moments,also the quiet individual snapshots of grace. the countless hours our our bedsides, by sometimes in silence as they offered their love by their alone.e it's the fellow survivor offering her hospital room to a married couple to reunite. it is a private visit from a

wounded warrior telling us and showing us that we'll get better. is the movers volunteering their time to help the newly new home.ransfer to a it's the department store clothingsearching for to accommodate medical devices. sees ae passer-by who prosthetic leg and nods in strength. and it's the ribbons proudly our cruisers, ladder trucks, buses and cars when a bandtainly of bearded brothers brings home a championship to a beloved fans.rk and its [applause] within oure heroes families. a devoted brother who drove for the day of the marathon with a caring friend to be by his brother's side and serve as

his chief of staff. a loving sister who moved across care for hero family. parents stricken with fear and sadness who found a way to spend day after day in hospitals with hopes of willing their children back to health. extended family giving all they to support those they love, and couples, both wed and unwed, who stay by each other's sides through the emotional someone youching love suffer and the beauty of knowing that you'll get through this together, in sickness and in health. soer has that vow felt tangible. we would never wish the havetation and pain we experienced on any of you. ofever, we do wish that all you at some point in your lives feltas loved as we have over this last year. it has been the most humbling of our lives.

we hope you feel all the emotion say thank you. to our fellow survivor would we dohat without each other? thisould have never met way but we are so grateful for each other. despair,hared our sense of loss and challenges as gratitude andpe, triumphs. we have been there for each other and we will continue to be there to pick each other up and celebrate milestones for years to come. most of all, we will cherish the friendships our families have of mutualh bonds admiration. those who continue to struggle through despair, theing medical care and prospect of heartwrenching forgetl decisions, don't for a second that we will be there