impracticality of sending everybody home should be obvious to everybody. what are other choices? our other choices,, with a system that doesn't offend make somebody admit they have broken the law, that they deserve to pay a fine. put them on probation for a time. and then let them have a chance to live a regular life and be a productive citizen of our country. , we helpeconomically our selves so much by doing that. in the process, we stopped and put an end to the failed system that we have now. if i didn't know anything else, i know that anything is better than what we got. what we got is a failure.

it is against everybody's interest. there are three good reasons that you could do this in a responsible way. the requirements ought to be rigorous. i think the people that are advocates of immigration reform recognize that the requirements ought to be rigorous. the people that have come here -- we need them to stay. >> do you feel that on capitol hill right now that those people that are taking a hard line, particularly when it comes to what to do when those people were living in the shadows, how strong is the block of the people who do believe in nasty board patient -- deportation? is that the holdup was the holdup elsewhere along the line? i think the people that think will send a living people -- 11 million people off is few and far between.

that is not going to happen. isn't that many people that say that. whose argumente is we should not reward people for breaking the laws. vast majority of americans, vast majority of republicans, vast majority of conservatives do not believe in deportation of 11 million people. they just don't. as i said earlier, cost is an issue that people -- that have to be confronted. we talk about breaking the law and border security -- people have to understand gun rights -- and this is actually good for the treasury of the united states. you hear a lot about that. the last thing you hear is will they enforce the law? i like president obama, that is not the issue.

he is not going to be president anymore by the time this gets going so let's talk about the real issues we need to deal with. i assume the law will be enforced. >> one of the things we saw was bits of news over the weekend which i think are worth talking about today as we look forward. one related to the potential candidacy of jeb bush. talking very specifically about immigration. the presidential library in college station. as other news that came out the lead editorial on the new york times on sunday was the fact that the obama has nowtration is n surpassed the mark of 2 million deportations to perhaps get tough and ameliorate concenrs rns from the right. are you comfortable with that?

are you comfortable with the level of deportation? is that something that needs to be done to bring people into the tent or is there another way to go about that issue? -- thatpe is that you the administration will go about it a different way. i am not comfortable with the number of deportations. andnew york times article other articles have focused on the fact that folks with relatively minor criminal records instead of the significant criminal records, the felonies that have been spoken about, have actually been deported. >> traffic violations. >> things that anybody will not argument that our concerns to the safety of the kit -- of the community or national security. my hope is that the president will find ways that are within his power that our constitutional -- are constitutional to ease the level of deportation. >> governor barbour, to go back

to the issue of governor bush. he wrote a book about immigration which did not provide a pathway to citizenship. one of the things that was pulled out of his speech on sunday was that he was taking a far more moderate view. ways refer to it as an act of love. essentially, those people that are coming to this country are doing so primarily in an effort to improve the economic stability of their lives and the economic stability of their families. is that the right message for your party going forward as we move into the next presidential election cycle or what is the tone you would like to see from whomever the next candidate will be for the republican party on the topic of immigration? >> i thought it was interesting in the 2012 campaign rick perry and newt gingrich were very whitete, open, closer to

-- to what i considered them my mitt romney who was the least conservative candidate that saw fit to get over to the right of them, if you want to describe it that way. i think it hurt him terribly in the election. i think it was a very bad strategic mistake. what people want to do is tell the truth. if jeb feels that way about it, it reminds me of my old boss ronald reagan. ronald reagan used to say when the blame america first crowd gets out of hand, you need to apply the gates test. what is the gates test? he says the gates test. see which way people run. they run to america. that is what jeb is saying to me. this is the place for good reason.

we ought to be proud of it. when you apply the gates test and people want to come here. and that is what is good about --s and i don't find that that message has the benefit of being true. whether everybody will take that same view, is neither here or there. it is very similar to what ronald reagan.. >> is that the right direction for the party? >> i think for economic policy, for legal policy, for national security policy, and for immigration policy as well as being the shining city on the hill, every one of those -- we ought to have good immigration reform. >> as you get into the 20 16th cycle, you are going to have more republicans than not that are closer to the jeb bush position. with that view who gets into the general election and makes it more competitive

general election against the democrats. >> and you have a particular window? we are around the magazine sitting around thinking that we are going to have to legitimate contenders for the republican nomination which is good for texas monthly to be able to write about senator ted cruz and run -- and governor rick perry. it is interesting when you pull that moment out of the campaign in 2012, governor perry took a lot of heat about the comment that you don't have park if you don't support the fact that people are living here, whether they are here legally or not, if they had been here for a long time, should not have access to in-state tuition to our public and diversity's. -- our public universities. california followed quickly behind. was that something that is well received on your end? as you are talking about civil rights opponents of this what

you were also talking about an economic component. is that the tone that you think is the right one for the party to be striking? >> again, what i think people want to hear from candidates is what they really think. rick perry was obviously saying what he really thinks. his record matched what he thought. people should have been sticking their finger in the air and what the people want me to say? --what we you are for be what you are for and the second rule is tolerate people who disagree with you. people can disagree with me at all sorts of things. what is the magic way to talk about immigration? you get people who are becoming contrived and not useful. >> fair enough. we are down to a few minutes.

i like to thank both of you for being here today. could solve, if you one problem related to this issue or talk to one person about this issue would have the opportunity to change somebody's mind who maybe disagrees with you, what would it be? if you are able to break through on one aspect of it, what would you most like that to be? >> that is a broad question and a narrow question. i would say to look at the history of our nation and to understand that we have had the challenges throughout the history of our nation with peoples who have come from divination throughout the world. every single time we have been able to surmount those challenges and welcome those it is in because of it, keeping with our tradition as americans to welcome new immigrants and to find a way to have their brain power, their energy, and their talent to make

america stronger. in this century, we are competing for investment, brainpower, for economic development on a global basis. we need them as much as they need us. >> governor barbour, do you have a follow-up? >> i don't think there is a single silver bullet. i can't resist talking about one subject we haven't talked about which i think is really important. today it was announced that the united states government is going to quit taking applications for h-1b visas. these are the visas for their very specially skilled -- we only have 65,000 of them plus another 20,000 for people with more than a bachelor's degree, a doctorate or masters degree. this is the