that is unthinkable. not just for our children, but for the citizens of the world who need america to be a strong, successful, constant beacon of hope for what their lives can be. so, let us resolve together to confront these problems with honesty, integrity, and with the spirit of togetherness. if we do that, i believe in my heart that the citizens of our state will reward us economic ,rowth, opportunity, freedom and prosperity like we have never seen before, and then, when we put our heads on the pillow at night, we'll be able to say we have done our jobs, and when our time on the earth is over we will be able to pass

the torch on to the next generation and say to them honestly, we did our job, now it is your turn. if you are in for that flight, i am in for that right. if you care that much about our state, so do i. together, we can do this. let's resolve to fix our problems honestly and fairly, and let's make this a better base for our children and grandchildren. thank you all very much. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [applause]

>> in a moment, we'll be live on pending- iraq's elections. we plan to bring you that to you surely with the exception that the u.s. ambassador to iraq is a little bit delayed. will get to that shortly. also coming up tonight, from the vail symposium, a discussion on genetically modified food. i will have an eastern right here on c-span -- that will at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on c-span. and here is a look at the symposium. >> of all independent scientists i have interviewed him and they

all agree, whether they are orinst gm all's -- gmo's against them, they agree that they were released before the science is ready. the process itself, i do not agree is irrelevant, because the process causes metal -- massive collateral damage, mutations up and down the dna, far more than conventional breeding, -- breeding, and they do not in any way. some scientists look at monsanto after it was on the market and found that a gene was switched on that produces an allergen. you might have an allergic reaction, or someone you know might die from eating the corn that is genetically engineered, but the process created a switch on of the dormant gene and a change of 43 other genes. , here are the

organizations -- the world health organization, no problem .ith gmo's are always part of a conspiracy? if that is not enough for you, here are a bunch of organizations, and they do not have scientific sounding names. these are real medical and protective organizations. in europe, australia, all over the world. , which we pay attention to when it comes to global warming or something like that, they say -- would not pose unreasonable risk to human health and the environment. i could come up with dozens of these. australia and new zealand food safety group, we have identified no safety concerns for any of assessed.ds we have

is this reasonable that something that is such an extraordinary poison it is fear mongering, and all of these organizations are ignoring? >> once again, we're live this afternoon for a discussion on pending elections had to happen again that this month on april 30. prime minister nouri al-maliki will be seeking a third term care at the discussion will 's ambassador to the u.s. and could touch on a parliamentary vote that could legalize marriage for girls as young as nine years old. the center for shortages and international studies is the host. --expected to get underway the center for strategic and international studies is the host. we expect it to get underway in just a few moments here on c-span.

>> good afternoon. i am ahead of the program here tocsis, and i am delighted welcome lukman faily here, ambassador to iraq to talk about the election -- about the parliamentary elections to take place on april 30. prior to this, he served as iraq 's ambassador to japan, and spent many years in the u.k.

studying to be an engineer when it was not safe to be in iraq. speaking of not safe, ambassador lukman faily is a veteran. he ran the boston marathon two days ago, and he completed the boston marathon two days ago, so when he comes up, please give him extra time to make it up the stairs. he will make it up, and we are delighted and look forward to what he has to say. after he talks, he and i will have a discussion for about 15 minutes that we will open it to the group for discussions. please join me in welcoming ambassador look him failing -- lukman faily. [applause] >> thank you very much. this is yours. ok. thank you very much, john.

i was expecting a disability access route, but thank you for your concentration, and for allowing us to have an opportunity to chat among friends about the situation in iraq. i will talk for about 10, 15 minutes, if that is ok. that we will have the q and a session. to start with, let me say that i am privileged to be here today. first, because of the new, magnificent facility and that csishat guy -- has acquired, and to be talking that might an area not have been talked about for some time in d.c. following the troop withdrawal, but i think it is important that we provide an opportunity to discuss among friends what is taking place in iraq, the region, and more

importantly, where does the united states see itself as a .ey player and partner in iraq within that context, the csis has played an important role, and john, thank you for chairing that part of the program. all of you guys are in safe hands. ago, i ran the boston marathon in support of the victims of terrorism from baghdad to boston. i am proud that i finished. relieved that i am finished as well, and i have tremendous respect and appreciation for those that completed the race following last year's tragic terroristic act. journey to democracy is also a marathon.

today,e week from actually, on april 30, the iraqi parliamentary election will mark and it is attributed to the sacrifices of so many iraqis and americans, and other countries. this will be the fourth parliamentary election since the overthrow of saddam hussein back first since the u.s. withdrawal of troops at the end of 2011. amidst regional turmoil and election offers us opportunity to consolidate democracy, nurture greater stability, and strengthen national unity. democracy means that the people can elect leaders on their own choosing.

in the selection, iraqis will be 9000to choose among candidates from 117,000 -- from 117 political entities. let me repeat that. 9000 candidates. 107 political parties or entities, and 328 seats. we want the composition of the parliament to represent the diversity of the people. 25% of the seats in parliament are allocated to women. christians and other minorities are guaranteed a certain number ensures in order to their representation in parliament. 60% of the 21.5 million eligible out,s are expected to turn around 60%. out of country voting will take place in 19 nations.

in the united states there'll be polling stations in illinois, california, she can, arizona, virginia, and tennessee. we are doing everything we can to make sure elections are free and fair. the process is being administered by an independent group of nine commissioners nominated and approved by the parliament. throughout the nation, only 15 brought byhave been the commission. there has been much less controversy than in past elections about excluding candidates and declassification. to ensure accountability and transparency, electronic voting cards are being used to eliminate or reduce voting fraud. 650 credentials have

been issued to foreign monitors. these improvements help to explain why 75% of iraqis are more enthusiastic about this election than earlier elections, according to a recent home commissioned by ndi, the national democratic institute. as the campaign enters its closing week, americans would've found some -- would find some features familiar. better organized and more professional than in the past, reflecting increasing numbers of iraqis that are online. candidates are making greater use of social media to reach out to constituents and debate core issues. what are the issues? well, i have heard the famous american slogan, it is the economy, stupid. iraq,ct the economy -- in

the economy is one of four over rising concerns. believe i canst improve if iraqis are better armed and trained. regarding the economy, surprisingly, most iraqis did not see the oil sector as the major driver for growth and prosperity. instead, iraqis believe the two things our nations need -- our nation needs is loans for small businesses and sentences -- and incentives for small business owners to hire more employees. iraqis want to rebuild the education and health care system. now, it is not because the election is being held amongst rising threat of terrorism. that is why it is more important

than ever that the elections are held on time. one day participate in the election, the voters will take ae -- will be striking powerful blow against the terrorists that are trying to fraction us away from the polling places in order to prevent the console edition of .emocracy in iraq making no mistake, every vote is cast will be a vote for hope and ballots, not bullets, democracy, not dictatorship or divisiveness. when the final results are released, we should expected it to be by the end of may, democratic process will continue. that no is possible single party gained a majority, conversations will continue about how the competing parties can come together to form a

coalition government. an inclusive government will keep iraq moving forward toward stability, security, and democracy, and we want all three. andng been ruled by one man one party under the saddam hussein regime, iraqis understand that no single faction, whether political, religious,ional, or should control or can control their country. when everybody has a voice and no community feels excluded, the new government will gain legitimacy. when every segment has a voice and no community feels excluded, the new government will gain legitimacy. this will deny the extremists the political support they need for their violent tactics, and inclusiveness is not only the best way to build democracy, but also the best and only way to

beat terrorism. holdingcceed at elections and forming a new government, we will be better security,ke our, political, and economic fronts. the provinces there have been in therted issues southern provinces. in the western issues, improve security -- provinces, improve security will depend on the speed of the process of forming a new government. despite the current difficulties in anwar province, the government is committed to a strong turnout. displaced nurses will be able to cast their votes at secure sites. bedisplaced persons will able to cast their votes at secure sites.

reach withwill be key segments of our society, such as the kurds over the oil revenue, and the scope of federalism, among other issues. we are hopeful that following the elections the odds will improve form raking that deadlock. -- breaking that deadlock. pave the way, will for greater focus on trade and investment. on the diplomatic front, successful elections will include -- improve the iraqi standings in the international community, allow us to play a role in the region as a force for motivation. forcing -- forming a new legitimizewill also the strategic agreement signed between the united states and iraq. we want to build what president

obama has called a partnership of equals. as part of that endeavor, our embassy will continue efforts to promote the institutional and people-to-people exchange between iraqis and americans. when you visit iraqi will find an energetic people committed to building a democracy, stabilizing our region and rebuilding our roads, highways, railroads, restoring our water, and electrical systems, and improving our education and health care. we work with american partnership, friendship, and investment. the marathon that we are running is long, but we are determined to cross the finish line despite the challenges we face. let me thank you again for giving me the opportunity to be here, and i would be more than appy to take any q and

questions. to i very much. [applause] -- thank you very much. [applause] >> to i very much, mr. ambassador. -- thank you very much, mr. ambassador. one of the things that is curious in the u.s. watching these elections is i have not seen any coverage of alternatives to prime minister nouri al-maliki waiting -- winning. there do not seem to be political movements that have a reasonable chance of winning a morality. could you help us -- a morality -- a plurality. could you help us understand -- we all know prime minister nouri .l-maliki who are some other candidates that are likely to be serious contenders or likely to be the ones whose decisions will shape

the consequences of the elections? >> ok. in iraq we have somewhat of a strange system of government. we are not like the british system in the sense that a member of parliament will come prime minister, keep the parliamentary seats, and every party puts their candidates forward. that is not the case. we also have a jewish and in which the dynamic of selecting a prime minister -- we also have a situation in which the dynamic of selecting a prime minister is different than electing a member of parliament. are the parliamentarians there, the formation of the government is on who is best able to let the votes of the parliamentarians, not the people. we have two different dynamics altogether. for the prime are to be elected than for the proletarian to be elected.

you have also a -- parliamentarian to be elected. there are also very few red lines that block us. it makes us a bit complicated for the formation of the government, a prolonged process, and more importantly, candidacy will not be forward until the election is complete. i am not aware of anybody putting a name forward and saying this is my candidacy, although they have said we will secure or we will endeavor to gain the prime minister, or lead the formation. it did think they will on -- they think they will undermine their candidacy by revealing the name between now and the election, primarily for

technical reasons. >> one way to read that would be ift putting a name forward, they think that the prime minister is likely to be reelected, they would rather be in the coalition rather than against it. >> that was the same scenario in 2009. a clear runner who nourire seats than the candidacy, but he did not win. >> that is my point. forming the government is more difficult than electing a prime minister. the challenge each party has is gather votes, entice other groups to form a coalition to form a government. >> speaking politically, it

seems to me that that gives tremendous advantage to incumbency because the incumbent prime minister would have tremendous tools at his disposal to build a coalition, and the dynamic outside of that coalition would be how do i get in rather than how do i assemble an alternative coalition? >> i think you are right, however we also have the issue -- no premiership is secure. lastalfway through the government there was a challenge to the prime minister. a no-confidence vote. in a way, that is what the democratic process of iraq is. people have talked about moving onto a presidential situation. i think we are far from the. historicallyhave been used to the presidential

system, so you have a cultural issue as well. the prime minister's position is head of the cabinet, and his vote is one. no authority for laying people off, whether they are cabinet members or others. he has to go to the prom and. his power -- parliament. his power is different because people who wrote the constitution were sure about separating the powers in a way. is oneme minister's vote among many. he has no veto, no extra weight or anything else. dynamic ande a new this is the issue that i hope people appreciate. >> the article in the new "new

yorker," -- >> which i am yet to finish. may give away the ending. the ending -- let me give away the ending. sky to say that -- theme minister should prime ministership is too strong. other say it is too weak. >> let me project my analysis. you have a new political process forming and iraq. you have a new dynamic taking place. nothave a culture that is known to democracy. you have three or four generations of the militarization of society. the issue of perceived

power versus actual power is very important. the issue of symbolism in iraq is very important. for example, people were saved -- saying the president is no longer there because of his illness. -- should it be a kurd because the previous president was a kurd? no, the previous president had the personality and ability to bring in everyone, and that is why he was unique. the personality is important. it is not just the actual power authority. it is a personality issue. you are trying to move away from that, to safeguard those and this is what i was talking about. the clerical establishment in iraq has traditionally urged

people to vote, and traditionally try to keep the shia community unified to protect shia interests. it has not been active in this round of elections. in your judgment, is this a good thing or a bad thing? >> they have been very active in their weekly sermons, and in which they focus primarily on the caliber of the candidacy, the displeasure of services provided to the people. they have tried to keep away from personalizing the issue because there were labels they convened in the first government and therefore they felt they should not take the baggage of that any longer and disassociate themselves. historically, they have never been involved in politics. situation,he 2003

following the lack of visible leaders, the dynamics and the challenges of iraq, people asked them to promote. i think they have played a positive role. they have been mature. opposite end, they have been a very good player. in this election, they have been advocating for participation and the caliber of the parliamentarian and kept away from personal issues. i think that is a very nice position, a healthy position for religious -- i cannot even call it a cultural institution to promote. of the troubling things

we have seen in the last six violence it seems is picking up again. thousands of deaths this year. can you paint a picture of an electoral result that addresses some of the secretary divisions, or is it outside of the consequences? is there a way that the election -- that this could or will likely lead to a decrease in secretary and tension and violence? is the reboot button for resolving in re energizing society. the election is marginal. for the serious discourse and discussion to take

place after the election. to address core issues. the power of provinces, the budget, oil, and so on. andelection will provide us will re-energize us and having that discussion. a fresh view with people given the mandate by the vote of the people. is -- no aspect of it single party is saying i need to dominate or i need to have the full authority of the government at the cabinet level or other representation issue. everybody is saying we need to get the majority. if you are looking at it from that line. we need to get the majority of risk livers -- of religious

establishment or we need to get the professional involved in the government. they are talking about the ministers saying we need to move away from the parties being there on minister. we need to get professional people involved. we need to bring people in that can work with each other and they need to have a bit more power or site in who his team should be. it have to do with -- it should have to do with election and government. the election is the only way we are approaching it. party saying -- to form the government. >> you have some that feel excluded from the process. >> they have representation in the government. they want to have representation in the cabinet.

let me re-adjust the issue. re-address the issue. you do not have the scenario of 2005, 2 thousand six, or 2008. you do not have the ethnic cleansing you had before. you have people that believe in rule of law and to say the process is not working. this is a key issue. stood with theat government, who was elected, by the way, and he is as sunni as anybody can be. him or others should have a say in governing in future iraq. we welcome that. no one is expecting to dominate. it will not work. the constitution will not allow it.

it is 60%, or 63%, because of the presidency requirement for the government -- for the process to kick in. you need to select the president. two thirds of the parliament have to agree. two thirds of the parliament have to agree to start the process again. have an easier time getting two thirds of your parliament to agree that we do in congress. a report was put out that i am sure you have glanced at. numbers uprising front. the world bank ranks iraq as having low quality governance. 178 in the world. 182nd in government

effectiveness. 205th in the quality of rule of law. 189th in the quality of government regulations. 193rd in the control of corruption. tell us straight. i am interested in your explanation of why that set of numbers can exist alongside with the fact that we see a prime minister that most people think will be reelected. process is a democratic and everybody is looking for inclusion, no one knows how it will come out, how does that set not create the sense that there's going to be any alternative to the current government rather than despite these numbers, the prime minister seems likely -- >> these are elite numbers.

democracy is about the populace. we provide full access for those numbers to be known. the minister of oil and ounces every month how much oil we have sold and to whom. issue.t have an we said to the world bank -- please give us more numbers, tell us where we are getting robbed. the prime minister issue has to do with the populace who they think is the right person. people have been telling us that iraq will be decided and is

going through all kinds of troubles. third point, which i fully agree with -- we are trying to do that effectively. we have a coalition government. there is no opposition party. if you have five or seven parliamentarians, you are eligible for minister or senior officials or one of the high commissions and for your part of that. that is not very effective. was even called inefficient. that is a system that has choice. we are trying to say let's be more effective and not get --.ybody that is where we are going with it.

suspect the individual iraqis look at this election as was the only issue of importance to them . what are the issues of importance? one issue that has to do with -- with the security for example. they see a prime minister who is focused on security. whether that is right or wrong, that is for historians to tell. we have to expect and accept these democratic processes. it may be painful, but that is what we are choosing. before a ghostn audience. i was reading up on all of the press on iraq and the elections. get such athink you

hard treatment in the press? why did people that seem to know inq seems so disappointed what is happening. as far as democracy is ofcerned, for the last part 2003, the last constitution we had was there. --er that, we had constitution. we are new and have a new social contract. iraq, andx of the of forgive me for saying that. i doubt a lot of people can understand it. thes complicated because of line.

having two big neighbors who are next-door. it is difficult to understand. key theme of the people, where pride is important. time is irrelevant. people try to pigeonhole us and say how can a formation of government take nine months? we don't work based on the american concept of a project, which has to do with time, resources, and spoke. these are the three elements you always have in mind. we do not have those correlations in a similar manner and we are complicated and sometimes we are contradictory to our character. that is why people are somewhat disappointed.

look at the theme over the last 10 years. we have evolved. those who are in a position are saying we need to be open to the political process. we need to be involved in this democratic process. nobody is advocating dictatorship and a longer. is an issue.ive even the prime minister, accused --dictatorship, is saying for the budgets so that we decentralize more. you see the complex of the of that? that is something people have to appreciate. we are not binary. >> says the engineer.

>> the mathematician, actually. tohappy to open it up questions. introduce yourself and ask one question until everyone has had a chance to ask. >> thank you, mr. ambassador. i am dan to bono -- dan tavano. to follow-up up with the comments on the numbers in the , for the first , an attempt by members of congress to condition assistance on progress on meeting some of these indicators. can you tell us more about how the government viewed that efforts and maybe how it has responded to some of those impulses so far?

to keep talking and communicating with our american friends. the discussion has been between the white house and the government. role, we work with the white house along with congress and others because we think there is a need for it. that was the key issue. that is what the prime minister's to act with them. the representatives of the work with needed to the embassy, to strengthen our relationship with the stakeholders of the united states. the united states's decision making is not a single party or person. .e need to have institutions based on that, the security issue became clear to all the

people in the united states. the safe haven will be a significant risk to the u.s. as much as it is to rack and regional instability. o iraq and regional instability. we may have our own politics to discuss with them. we are willing to do that. to make it conditional, they know that we need urgent assistance and we would be getting that and we are thinking we are on the right track. clicks phoebe. phoebe, independent scholar. i would like to get back to the election if i may and follow-up

on things you said about the inclusiveness of it. not heard much about how the election is going to be ron in areas that are presumably almost at war. falluja and so on. assess -- how is the government doing in terms of keeping security they are for the election. how would you assess the ability of the sunni population to participate in this election? >> that is a key challenge. we have responsibility of government to provide elections an opportunity for people to participate. people in of the

falluja and not using indiscriminate -- or being dong .o -- gung ho not in our nature. with the military are doing now is a lot of urging for them to go in, especially after it was tried -- after they tried to close it down. that was a challenge. there is an obligation on government to provide safe environment for democratic, to take place -- for democracy to take place. what we have been trying to do displaced, ande

others, there are significant numbers for them to be able to vote. coming to each province votes for their own provinces. it a weekking on before the election. there will be representation and we are eager not to go to the 2005 scenario where the community is not excluded. that is not in issue for us -- that is not an issue for us.

>> thank you for your presentation. a following on the reference to how the media treats iraq, covers iraq negatively. there is a sentiment in the united states -- a strong desire to see iraq succeed. americans may feel some responsibility for success in iraq, understanding that we pulled back and now it is your responsibility. we spent a decade there and we want to know that it was worth it for u.s. objectives and for iraqis themselves. it to you to have the u.s. intervention? was it worth it to the average

iraqi citizen? >> as you may appreciate, when you evaluate the story in evaluating situations, they tried to move away from the binary element of it. was it worth it or not worth it? there are mirrors of issues which iraqis went through prior to 2003. the popular slogan at that time -- to the iraqis, that is a different perspective. is one aspect of it. the other aspect of it is that people used to have pride in the country. alienated,e nate -- chapter seven and everything

else. the middle-class is no longer there. it is operated the middle-class. operated -- evaporated the middle-class. the question is more for americans historians than iraqis to answer that question. for the iraqis, we have an opportunity for democracy. .e have challenges no one is underestimating those challenges. we have a big project ahead of us. project aheadous of us. to achieve that, people want to do it in their lifetime. i think it will take generations. that is because the legacy to generations. it is harder to build than demolish.

sense, we are provided with opportunity. i think for iraqis, we have a chance. we have a reality we have to work with. also, the legacy does not help us to sustain. saying --people are let me give you an example. the best case scenario is we need to be more effective. let's have a just dictator. the dictator they have, they want him to be just. that is impossible to do. -- people are somewhat educated better and we're going through that process.

>> thank you. i wonder if i could ask you to solve a problem for me. you have emphasized inclusivity as the outcome of the election. the prime minister has made no secret of his desire for what he y --s a majorit majoritarian government. it is very heavily focused on an appeal to shia. there will be very few sunni and kurd he -- kurdish votes for the prime minister. reconcile what you

have emphasized here, which is the importance of inclusivity? the end of the day, he is a politician and he wants to be voted into power. any contradiction or anomaly. he is aware that the formation of the government, you have to have the inclusivity. he is coming from that direction as well. you also have a situation in which people are saying we need of taste better sense for decision-making. let me give you the anomaly. you have a cabinet which is more at the same time, a mirror image of that cabinet of the parliament, which is

dysfunctional. at the end of the day, the system depends on parliament for legislation and monitoring. if that is dysfunctional, how would the government the effective? the prime minister is coming from that point. i have not seen anybody who says we need to have a government in andh every segment of iraq no opposition party should be forming. nobody is calling for that again. everybody knows that they need to get more votes so that they have more power so they can become more effective in governing. question for now, we have tried to be inclusive and also not to have anyone exclusive. now we are saying this is not working for us.

because of the challenges, because of the pace, the decision-making, and so on. we need to be more effective in our governing. can he form the government on his own block alone? i doubt if you would promote that. moreaying we need to get parties, we need to get some of the kurdish parties and some of others,inces parties or as much as i need to get parties from -- to be involved. this is where he is coming from. if you look at this from a binary way, it will not work. stages,ook at it as two i think a can result in --. can.t's pick up if i one of the goals of the united

in 2004, 2005, was bringing people together. from your lastke comment is if there is less sunnirity in the shia and and kurdish community, that may mean better outcomes. that goes to what you were saying with the party formation. there has to be people in opposition. is one of the outcomes that we should hope for is not that people come together into blocks, but that none of the blocks proves sustainable and there is a process by which people of all variety come together. there are a lot of shia in opposition. post secretary tarianganization -- secre

organization. >> it is necessary to involve into one. that -- let me tell you the reasons behind that. teamwork, is or peopleore concept of our , because of various other reasons. government, in bringing everyone -- that is what we call --. i will not work. we have tried it. it was a painful process for it. it may have been an unnecessary process for us. for us to be more effective in governing and address the core issues, or providing better

services, country is rich. .e need to move away people are realizing that. >> you have a busy week ahead. a tiring week behind you. we wish you luck and we appreciate you coming to join us. we look forward to hearing more in years to come. >> thank you very much. [applause]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

place,u's elections take an asd there may be a 3rd

consequtive term. the atla.m. eastern, himntic him council and the fou cs on andukr aain.e ukraine. yesterday, the supreme court ban.g on the michigan host: richard, give us the background. guest: thank you for having me. the last set of major cases are this came in 2003, both out of michigan.

one of which said that the university of michigan undergraduate school could not use quotas, racial preference quotas. the other one said the law school could use race among other factors. that said opponents of racial preferences to get a constitutional minute passed, passed.ment they succeeded in 2006. it has been the subject of legal efforts. the case finally gets to the supreme court after the lower court ruled one way. the supreme court yesterday, after oral arguments in october, the supreme court took six months to come up with this decision and in a 6-2 decision said it was not for them to overrule what state voters wanted vis-à-vis preferences at universities. host: who were the judges that

joined together and what do they say about their rationale. guest: technically, they did not band together, but i won't get into that. there was a plurality. anthony kennedy is frequently the swing vote and wrote the plurality opinion with chief justice roberts and justice alito joining him. as a quick aside, three others concurred and ruled for the state to have the ban, but for different reasons. those were justices scalia, thomas, and justice breyer, who is more frequently aligned with the liberals. he wrote a third opinion. reasons,fferent those 6 justices, they said the

ban is upheld. on the flip side, justice sotomayor or and justice ginsburg wrote the dissent. justice elena kagan was recused, from this case. was 6-2.hy it that does not add up to 9. presumably, she was involved in this case to some level when she was solicitor general. host: let's look at what justice kennedy had to say. this is not about how racial preferences should be resolved, it is about who should resolve it. there is no authority for the judiciary to set aside michigan laws that commit this to the voters. what is he saying? guest: this case was not about -- and this was clear,ng he made

reading, giving a summation of his 18 page opinion when he spoke from the bench. this is not about whether universities can have affirmative action policies, they can. that court has ruled that they can, although the majority very tenuous.ery, this is about whether states can choose or a government body can choose, sure they can but we are going to have a referendum in our state to decide whether they can. if the voters say they cannot , then that becomes law. if voters decide that, they have overruled what the court has said universities can do. and the voters can do that. it is not so much over affirmative action policies over what political action can be taken at what level of government. and so he was saying this action by the voters of

michigan can be taken and it is not for us to overrule them. precedent did they set with this decision? guest: none, what i mentioned before, there were three justices -- there was no majority for a reason. ad that is very important for reason. the supreme court decided yesterday that the state could do this but they did not decide why. picture another state, say the state of maine decides we are going to ban racial preferences and they do it, and they get taken to court. the lower courts in that state or circuit are not bound. this decision was not decided based on any one thing.

in justices' minds, it was different reasons. host: some justices said this is about race, what did we hear from them? guest: that was the most interesting part of this case. the vehemence of justice sotomayor. since she came on the court in spoken, well,ever she has never read a dissent from the bench, which is a fairly unusual occurrence. justice ginsburg did it four or five times in the last term. she wrote a 58-page dissent, an extraordinary length, she was very vehement in reading a portion of her dissent from the bench yesterday. basically, she is accusing the other justices or at least several of them of being naïve. it comes back to justice

roberts. justice roberts said the way to stop discriminating on the basis of race is the way to stop discriminating, just stop discriminating rather than coming up with new court decisions. her dissent basically said that is naïve. there is still racial injustice and a need to overcome racial injustice. the policy that michigan and enacted by a constitutional amendment sets back racial minorities beside the others. that is the key to this case. from the point of view of those who oppose the ban at from the point of view of justice sotomayor and justice ginsburg, what this amendment does, the amendment is worded very neutrally. if you read it, it is a very short amendment. you would think, what is wrong with that? againstt discriminate anybody.

what justice sotomayor said in her dissent is as a result of this, if you are a student with a legacy status, one of your parents went to the school, or if you are a star athlete, you can continue to try to get into the public universities in michigan by going to the school board and going to university officials and trying to get in through the normal admissions channels. but if you are a racial minority, the only way you can do that is to try to overturn the state constitution. host: other states have bans on affirmative action. what has been the result of those bans? and did that evidence come into play here? guest: the evidence came into play from the opponents and from justice sotomayor. seven other states have similar bans, including california and florida. some of them have had far more success than others in having the ban, which one could argue is a good thing to try to do, without upsetting the percentages of minorities that get into the state's most

prestigious schools. florida has had notable success in coming up with other ways to continue to attract and admit minority students. california and michigan have not. their enrollments of minority students, blacks and hispanics in particular, have declined due in part or due in full to having these bans. that was part of justice sotomayor's dissent. she even had bar graphs in her 58-page dissent showing those declines at the top schools in california and the university of michigan ann arbor. i should mention, this has been going on in michigan because, since the ban was passed in 2006, it was struck down. it was overturned and allowed, back and forth by the district and the circuit courts. but it has been allowed to stay in

effect while being challenged. both in california and in michigan, there has been a notable decline in the percentage of minority students states' best schools. host: we will get our viewers to weigh in. i want you to talk about another piece you have in the paper today on oral arguments before the spring court yesterday. the justices will be deciding how you watch television. what is this case? what did you make of the oral arguments? guest: it is a fascinating case. very briefly, it has to do with an internet startup named aereo that operates in a bunch of cities around the country. they are not nationwide yet but certainly hope to be. they can stream live broadcast television into your home with dime-sized antennas, each antenna goes to one home. by doing that, they claim they are not a public performance, they are a private performance. therefore, they do not have to pay retransmission fees to the broadcast networks. it came to the court, there was a lot of thought that the court would look with disdain upon

this business model and say this is ridiculous, you only have dime sized antennas sitting and circuit boards on rooftops in various cities to get around copyright laws. and there was certainly a lot of rhetoric along those lines. if you look back at the oral arguments for the best quotes, all of them tend to be justices being very skeptical of this business model. it is not totally clear that the court will rule against aereo, that is why it is interesting case. if they do not rule against aereo, it could change things for the broadcast network companies because they rely very heavily on retransmission fees from cable companies. if aereo can get around paying those fees, lots of others will try. host: richard wolf, supreme court reporter for "usa today." appreciate your time. guest: anytime, greta. you give, yesterday, justices heard the case involving aereo

involving miniature antennas and whether it affected retransmission without copyright fees. you can hear the argument from the attorneys on friday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> during this month, c-span is pleased to present our winning entries in this year's student cam video documentary competition. student cam is the annual competition that encourages middle and high school students to think critically about issues. students were asked to create their documentary based on the question-what is the most important issue the u.s. congress should consider in 2014? the first prize winners are -- eighth-graders at eastern middle school in silver spring, maryland. they want congress to improve the nsa data collecting and

surveillance program. >> edward snowden, thank you, thank you for bringing to the attention of the world the fact that the u.s. government, the nsa, is engaged in massive information gathering. 125 billion cell phone conversations per month. >> there has been a lot in the media about the situation, some right and a lot wrong. >> the examples i gave you and how important they have been, the first core al qaeda plot to attack the united states post-9/11, we used one of these programs. another plot to bomb the new york stock exchange, we used these programs. now here we are talking about this in front of the world. >> to repeat something incredibly important, the nsa is prohibited from listing the phone calls or reading e-mails of america's without a court order, and of story. -- period, end of story. testimony.

>> the nsa, what is it and what does it do? it was hard to answer these questions before edward snowden leaked thousands of detailed classified documents to the public. these documents show the full extent of the nsa surveillance on americans. >> the nsa is doing bulk data collection on american e-mails. it is not limited in scope to terrorists, two spies, two -- to spies, to people they have probable cause to believe that they are committing some type of crime. it is a bulk collection of data of american's e-mails. >> that is just one side of the story. many people believe the nsa is doing the right thing under a law called fisa. >> what the nsa is doing is trying to implement something called the foreign intelligence surveillance act, fisa, which is designed to try to capture communications and information from foreigners who are believed to be trying to do harm to

americans or the united states. >> i thinkfisa has a lot of problems. i have repeatedly, during my tenure in congress, voted to rein in and redefine the fisa courts and responsibilities. i think we have more work to do. if anything, all of the news we have all endured over these last months about the national security agency really tells us in a deep way that there are things we have to do to rein in and provide oversight as members of congress in what the responsibilities of the nsa are. >> the nsa's method is changed over time with the advancement of technology. >> the change in technology, the technology back then [indiscernible]

telegrams,ccaional but not much more than that. the nsa is pretty limited on on.they can eavesdrop >> edward snowden released thousands of documents that revealed the true nature of the nsa to everybody, not just the american public. >> i don't think what he has done is ethical and right. i don't consider him to be a traitor because i don't think his intent or his purpose was to harm his country.

i don't think that was his intent or it but he clearly violated the law. there are clearly, in my view, better ways for him to have proceeded. >> a lot of people have very different feelings of what edward snowden did. some people consider him a hero and some consider him a traitor. the most important and that edward snowden did is start a conversation. he started a conversation about what our government is doing and how they are spying on us. it's a conversation that america needs to have because people need to talk about where the balance should be. before edward snowden, all we had to go on was the government saying no, we are not collecting our data. we know that is not true. he started a very important conversation. >> the nsa is very controversial and the only way to resolve that conflict is it congress puts this as their number one issue in 2014.

>> since 1975, it is causing enormous damage around the world. -- the winningall of videos, go to c-span.org and click on studentcam. post your comment on studentcam's facebook page or tweet us.

>> for over 35 years, c-span brings public affairs events to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, readings and conferences and offering gavel-to-gavel ripped -- coverage as a service of private industry. we are created by the cable tv industry 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service. hd, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. the fbi says there is a cyber element to just about every crime. cyber crime is one of the biggest threats to national security. officials talk about this issue at the second annual cybercrime symposium.

>> good morning, everyone. i am the vice president here at pace university. is a privilege for me to welcome you to our symposium. bob mueller once said that there are only two types of companies -- those that had been hacked and those that will be. shortly thereafter, he had to amend that because of the growth in cybercrime. now, according to him, there are only two types of the bunnies. those that have been hacked and those that are being hacked again. there is no question that cybercrime is one of the biggest threats to our nation's security. in 2012, cyber criminals victimized people all around the world. consumers lost $110 billion.

as opportunity grows, it will only get worse. 120 million people in the united states now own smartphones. the tablet is the fastest-growing electronic device ever created. smart phones and tablets account for 13% of all internet page views. i would like to thank the association of chartered certified accountants to help us raise the visibility of this critical issue. we have grown dependent on our digital world. it has created prosperity, transparency and freedoms that we could not have imagined a few years ago. it has also created threats that we could not imagine earlier. these require an army of experts to defend us. in a speech at california berkeley a couple of years ago, secretary of homeland security, janet napolitano, talked about how the department was recruiting college students to focus on cyber security.

she said her division nearly 2009ed its workforce in and a double that number in 2010. demandill be a growing for engineers, scientists, an analyst that study cyber security. alumni work at the cia, we think. the fbi, and at the manhattan district attorney's office. our students are interning with the department of homeland security and transportation, with government trough -- contractors, such as lockheed martin. they will be busy over the next few years. i wish there were more of them. are notately, there enough qualified cyber experts to stop all the threats against us. huger education can play a role in the war against cybercrime. they can provide these experts our school is creating a

model for training and educating them. and department of homeland security have designated pace as a national inter of academic excellence 2004 and it is a distinction that we retain today. it is also one of an elite group of schools that receive federal funding to support students studying cyber security. two scholarships revised pace students with full tuition, fees and job opportunities. the national science foundation selected for universities -- four universities for program. pace was one of them. our moderator today, jonathan hill, one of our associate deans , is an expert in american security threats.

darren hayes, an associate professor of information technology released his study on skimmer fraud with a cca funding. cohost anute to important discussion like this. introduceke to another leader on the war on cybercrime. when david was the chief of the cybercrime and theft of euros -- theft bureau, they chased them all straight out of a james bond movie. in one case, they convicted 15 defendants for identity theft and money laundering. the ringleader operated out of the ukraine and before david's group shut them down, they stole more than 95,000 credit card numbers, resulting in more than $5 million in credit card fraud.

this is one in a number of investigations achieved by david's office. it is a pleasure to welcome him, our panelists, and i'll do here today at pace. thank you very much. you here today at pace. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you for that introduction. i will be discussing the case in a minute or two. panelistsall of our today. i was on the panel last year. i am thankful to be here with the acca again. the manhattan district attorney's office -- we are ofnly aware of the value prosecuting and investigating

cyber crime. nearly every case handled by our office has a cybercrime element. think about that, it has changed dramatically over the last 10 years. every rape, homicide, burglary has a cyber element to it. even talkbefore you about the true cybercrime cases ,f hacking, intrusion, malware peer to peer crimes. as technology becomes more sophisticated, so do the criminals that use it. they take advantage of unsuspecting victims in so many ways. i love the introductory line where you have been said you have been hacked and have been hacked again. it happens on a regular basis. we all know that. what is fascinating is that we have seen a plunge in violent crime. it is attributed to the new york city police department, the district attorney's offices. we have not seen a decrease in

crime and identity theft. that is the fastest growing that exists in the country. about 200 to 300 new identity theft cases per month. when the da took over, he created the bureau to deal with this challenge. they have ada's that are specialty focused on this. we have made a commitment because this is where the problem lies in crime today. there is one case, the one that judge keating mentioned. these are numbers that are eight years old at this point. at the time of this case -- and i can only talk about closed cases. theseoes typify what

cases look like. i am not like our fbi counterpart who has a more global reach. i am a local prosecutor's office, but i still have to deal with this problem. minuted to spend a taking you through the case that we refer to as western express. this case shows the international aspect of cybercrime. it shows how someone who is sitting in a ukraine can impact new york city. it shows how someone in the czech republic can impact new york city. to prosecute that, we need to very unique resources and very unique abilities and capabilities. in its essence, this is a ring.c organized crime internationalst

crime of this magnitude to be prosecuted by a local das office. it was eight years of investigating. to theas an appeal luck court of appeals that came down and we tried the case. defendants with 12 and guilty pleas from 12 and we convicted three defendants after trial. served as aess money mover or money exchanger for this entire ring. -- you maynt or ceo have seen him on the cover of "the post." paid people to fly a banner outside the courthouse, claiming he was not getting a speedy trial, when most of the speedy trial issues were his own because he appealed to the court of appeals. often -- off of every transaction that existed as currency conversion. the buyers, as you can see, put

money in dollars into western express. in return, the buyer received de-gold -- e-gold. everyone is talking about bitcoin. e-gold was one of the first virtual coins. the buyer would take that and use it to buy stolen credit card information. they used the stolen information to manufacture new credit cards, which they used to purchase merchandise online and in stores, which they fenced for profit. the vendors needed to convert e-gold, so they used western express to convert it into dollars. you cannot buy a new car using cash., you need the you need to cash out of the system. it was the money laundering

vehicle used by this ring. defendants, her was sitting behind a computer terminal and the ukraine and he theght -- bought and sold personal identifying information. every time your accounts are compromised -- how many people have had their credit card accounts compromised. virtually everyone. when i was a young prosecutor, picking juries in 1997, everyone was talking about pickpocketing. identity theft. everyone has been a victim. nearly the identities of 100 thousand victims from the united states. he earned millions in selling this information. what we did in prosecuting this case was put this together. you could see how this worked. you can see how the money

laundering stages worked. the criminal activity generated proceeds. they placed those into a financial system, you have to layer it, disguise it, and integrated. enter, committee criminal activity, and then there is an output out of the system. that is what happened here. it is just the tools and the way they are using it are using emerging technology that you will hear about today. in two indictments and guilty pleas that i discussed with you. it was a successful effort to bring this case to justice. what is significant is the judge is our understanding the significance of what is happening to our victims who are being manipulated by technology. one of our defendants in this case got upwards of 44 years in

state prison as a result of the effort here that occurred. that is groundbreaking to hear a number like that. while my job is not solely to put people behind bars, there is a deterrent value that we need arehow, to show that if you committing fraud elsewhere, or in the united states, that you will be brought to justice. the local prosecutor's office has the capability to do that. we cannot do these cases alone. we rely on partnership. who aree folks here valued partners of our office. there are banks and businesses here and others that we work with. we cannot do this work without true collaboration. we're always looking for that in the manhattan's das office. this is a threat we are facing together. move into introduction of the panel. our moderator is jonathan hill. he is the assistant da for

special programs and projects. he has 20 years of college teaching experience, but also managerial experience. he has done 15 years and a , in addition to the teaching responsibilities here, he oversees the work of the web media lab, which provides web consulting to nonprofit and corporate partners. it includes microsoft, verizon, hp, and apple. aey have received presidential grant from pace university. a special agent agent with the federal bureau of investigation. he is currently the acting assistant special agent in charge of the intelligence division in the new york office of the fbi. he has spent nearly 15 years in that office, counterintelligence, focusing on counterintelligence, town or and economic espionage matters.

-- counter economic espionage matters. he keeps us safe. we also have someone who has worked in the incident response team at citigroup. she was pivotal in the implementation of north america, europe, and middle east and africa universities. lab andges the e crime received certification for the forensic examination of hard drive. brings moreoley than four to five years of securitye from i.t.

risk and compliance. he has held senior positions in architecture and engineering. he has served as global chief information security officer where he managed the information security programs. he holds a doctorate from pace university in information technology. vincent is a senior technical manager. partner in a managing accounting consulting firm in the netherlands. postgraduate program in the university of amsterdam. he is a qualified professional accountant and member of the dutch institute of registered accountants. welcome to our moderator and our panelists. have fun. [applause]

you for the wonderful introductions and that case study. we are going to have a moderated followation and we will it with an opportunity for the audience to ask questions. there are a lot of interesting contributions that you will have to make to our line of questioning for this fabulous panel. cca forto thank mthe a making this event possible. this is the second year, last year i got to sit in the comfy seats there. i did not sleep well the night after because there were a lot of things that came up in that conversation that are sobering

for academic and for anybody that uses mobile devices to transport and send sensitive information. of not sleeping well at night, we have this wonderful panel of high-level government and corporate and academic folks here this morning. what is keeping you up at night when you wake up in those wee small hours and you thinking about your work? charles? >> i am pleased to be here. i think what makes me not sleep at night is the -- everything is global and instantaneous. we have the ability to communicate in fractions of seconds and if somebody says something, does something, it is out on the net and we cannot pull it back in.

it does the same thing in corporate america. o one thing, send one e-mail, you cannot pull it back in. get an e-mail, open up an attachment and you get a problem. the ease with which people can penetrate your system -- it is very sobering. be vigilant every second of the day. you get an e-mail from a friend and you open it up, you don't even think about it. it is something that can happen -- has happened to everybody. that is something that bothers me. >> bernadette, when you work for bank,orous international you do not have to lose any sleep?

>> of course we do. the thing that keeps me awake at night is the ability of the -- -- ability to brinh do bring down a network. we have seen it happen. >> we will be hearing more about that this morning. robert? and thenot sleep well reason is because i am worried about a number of things. one is -- retaining and recruiting people to help us protect our corporation. -- there are people out there right now and everybody is vying for the same people. the unknown, we do not know what we do not know. things are happening and that sometimes it is to the point where we think about what was said earlier about those that do know they were breached, those

that do not know they were breached. thirdly, it is the obligation to protect your clients. thing, like i said, i do not sleep well, it is the technology that allows bad things to happen quickly and in large numbers. the breaches of the past, where maybe a thousand records would be excellent traded, now can be millions. that keeps me up at night. it is all about risk. >> you are representing a fairly diverse group of folks. does that mean you do not sleep at all? >> i sleep very well, thank you for that. one of the main points i am wondering about is us and them or black-and-white. when i was attending this conference last year, i noticed that we were talking about the

good guys and the bad guys and forgot about the large gray area in the middle where people can turn from good guys and bad guys. how -- whoesting actually are the bad guys and good guys can turn into bad guys and is similarly, i think with a little bit of effort, because we need those specialists, they be we can turn bad guys into good guys. within corporations and organizations, it looks like the normal workers and the i.t. guys that have to fix this problem. i do not think that is the right way of approaching this. neednk we do not cybercrime specialists in our organization. all become cybercrime specialists because it will protect us all. those are the two points.

us and them. the gray area in between. >> clearly sometimes us is them. all of us here this morning are concerned about who the bad guys and a bad girls are. photos of organized criminals and read about the successfully prosecuted cases in the paper. that is what you do day to day. what should we know about who the bad guys are and how we of our ownsers systems protect ourselves and prepare ourselves? said.e david this is a partnership. the fbi needs to work closely with corporate america to develop a program where folks feel comfortable with their own employees. is insider focus on threat. there are folks inside the

corporation that are going along fine and there is a problem and they become a bad guy. they are damaging your corporation. we have some vulnerabilities that we like to highlight to get the message out there. if one of your employees is exhibiting some of the signs, some of these things, that may be something you can take a look change thatully behavior and not come to the critical point of having a theft inside the office. personalolks that have problems, financial problems, they ask questions that they have no reason to know. say -- i wasike to a former local police officer. the first people inside your company will know the most about your company. if your employees say this point -- this person is not acting the

way he has acted, he is asking some weird questions, he is sitting at my computer yesterday and he never does that, those are the clues. shouldre the things you talk to your security office about. you should say -- you know what, i don't know if this means anything, but they were at my computer and he never was before. let's take a look at that and see what that is. there may be something that is completely harmless or it may be a problem. folks in your company are going out, traveling to other companies, you are vulnerable to people trying to steal trade secrets. you may think that you are working for a company that does not have trade secrets or -- anythingvalue

that has economic value as a trade secret. if you work for an accounting firm and you are traveling overseas to meet with another a joint venture, you may have the plans for the widget or the new corporate -- the new thing that they are going to produce. you may have that with you on your laptop. you are vulnerable to be approached and have this information stolen. you may not think that because you are not the president of the company, but you have the information with you. it is easy to transmit this information and we talk about business of folks traveling abroad. there are things we would like you to do, things we would like you to avoid. those are the things we like to talk about. >> you have internal threats and in the external, espionage type situations. are there common characteristics

to cybercrime that you see from your standpoint that distinguish it from other types of crime? >> not really. is cibert every crime involved. -involved. not try to call back in and do work while you're overseas. you cannot protect your system and you are asking for a potential -- there's a lot of risk right there. we try to explain that and have a plan before you go out. when you come back, to have a debrief, to see if there is -- hey, my laptop was out of my booth.

i was not with it for two days. maybe your i.t. folks can take a look at the laptop to make sure nothing was done with it. that is the kind of thing we look at in terms of trying to protect our folks when they go overseas. it does not have to be foreign government. , many be a competitor different people that would try to steal trade secrets. >> hopefully we will get to talk about corporate versus state issues like that. bernadette, who are your bad guys and bad girls? >> we have the insider threat, too. intoing cell phones office, the smartphones, picture taking abilities, taking pictures of screens, customer accounts, that is a very real mitigated.has to be when you bring your own advice, you are allowing people to bring their own computers onto the network. if they are infected, that is an

issue. also, when you use your laptop at home, you're not doing it for company business and your connecting it to your router and you're going out and doing whatever, who knows if you have been infected. you come back to work and you infect the network. usb devices, just because you don't have access to it, does not mean that you cannot read up from it. that can be affected. like charles was saying about when you go overseas and they hand you a usb device and say here you go and it is infected. it starts downloading your company information. it is a very real threat. >> what is your practical solution? is it behavior management with the employees? >> it is awareness. training awareness has to be

ongoing. it does not stop when you first come in and get the briefing on the first day and then you forget about it. it has to be continuous. theave to make sure employees know there are threats out there and what the threats are and that they understand the code of conduct that you are using our equipment. you should not be using it for personal use. to talk about the do's and don'ts so the employees know and they are aware. >> between the hardware and software and the different wi-fi areas, how do you deal with that? to say that the weakest part of any security program is people. the --nk about who are what are the agents that i worry about the most. i have heard malicious insiders.

i think about the accidental insiders. that is someone who sends a bunch of pii to the wrong address. i worry about the have to cktivist. there are many reasons that one of these threat agencies will target a company or an agency. they target in many ways. the weakest link is people. security awareness is the strongest tool in a consistent and continuous program, so that when someone does travel with the device overseas or to some where theychina, monitor everything, they know what they are in for. continuous awareness, continuous updating of that awareness, continuous training. people are the achilles heels of corporate training. they will make that mistake or

they will be a malicious insider. the malicious insider, there are controls around access management, things like that. smart people can get around that. once that happens, the most important thing is good, strong, quick incident response. >> vincent, you have this diverse membership of accounts that you represent. are some of them the bad guys or are they being asked to monitor in their individual circumstances incidents? most of them are people like you and me and we make the same mistakes and we have the same issues. in accounting firms it is important. if you talk about target risk

with people, it is good to give them a baseline understanding and continued to emphasize that -- when people talk about risk, they separate risk and risk management. for 50 this meeting minutes and the last five minutes we talk about risk. risk should be an integral part of decision-making in everything you do. it is like driving a car. if you are driving a car, it is an issue all the time you're driving. you need to be constantly aware of the safety issues while you're driving a car. with riskpplies management and taking care of cyber risk. it is not something that you do on the friday afternoon when you have a cyber risk meeting. it is something you need to integrate into the 40 or 60 hours that you're working a week. every position you take you should take into account what are the sources of risk that

keep me from achieving what i want to do and how do i mitigate those? i would advise not to set risk -- just like more driving a car. he needs to be there 24 hours a day. >> it sounds like risk manageable -- management is a teachable skill. we are embarking together in a new i.t. risk strategy and attempting to combine programs. we are quite excited about it. what would students in that program -- what would you wanted to know before they came to work with you? >> i agree with you that risk management is a teachable skill. interesting enough, when people start, it seems to -- it has a

worse effect bet -- rather than a better effect. until the moment it realizes that it is not supposed to swim and then the baby sinks. ante a few people learn from early age on that risk management is something that is in every part of daily life. risk management is a natural part of what people do. in businesses, we introduce risk management and separate risk management from the daily things. we have separate risk management meeting. dangerous because all of a sudden, risk and risk management are separated from what i am doing. then it should be teachable after it is silo, we

need to go to the next place where risk management and risk awareness again forms an integral part in what we are doing. i agree with you that risk management is teachable and i think we should emphasize risk management. klees let us emphasize risk the topic ofd today as part of what we do on a daily basis. are you going to devise a graduate course on risk management? what would you want these folks to work on? believe none of our jobs would exist if it were not for risk management. -- if there is no risk. when i look at candidates for my say the they do not word risk in business in the

interview, i do not -- they failed the first screening. it is all about risk management. we are all risk managers. we do different things around risk management, but that's a key. so how would you build a program around risk management. you start off by ensuring they understand it's about business and risks to the business. too many firms, not firms, but too many organizations, the people that are in those organizations think that i.t. risk is an i.t. problem, but it's a risk to their business. so if there was some i.t. issue with the program or something that my excellent trade customer information, are we risking the program, we are risking the business?