>> this week on "q&a" our guest who discusses his career in political activism and , "unstoppable: the emerging left-right alliance to dismantle the corporate state". ost: ralph nader, in your new book you start off the book and introduction by saying when of king about the genesis this back i remember the days working in my family's restaurant. you start that way? guest: because we were opposite of these opec style factories and down the street

with e county courthouse the jurors and a lot of sales people going through town and up in my dad's strapbrestaurant. they talked. they talked about sports, ankees, red sox, local factory situations or politics in general. even though they would always answer whether they ere republican or democrat or neither, that isn't the way they talked. hey talked in terms of what people react to when they work and live in a community. it was not ideological. i began it realize that they with labels, red state, blue state mentality. hey just came in talking about things on the ground. nd when you go from the abstraction of ideological clashes which the manipulators to divide and rule us down to where people live on the grounds it is a different type

conversation. host: how long did you work for your dad in the restaurant and your age? guest: i was in high school. princeton.ers from law n summers from harvard school until the great flood destroyed the main street in 1955 and my dad's restaurant. host: is the town still in up ecticut where you grew still there? guest: yes, winston, connecticut. the factories are pretty much closed. it is a bedroom commuting hartford and rd aterbury but it has a nice community college that my rear veered big brother started. sebcond smallest town in america with a college. connecticut st community college. remember who first influenced you to think about

about government? guest: it feels my father and mother. in a book how they raised the four children, two a factory o girls in town in new england. it was conversation around the dinner table. at tv or no looking listening to radio or looking like this. we talked. challenged us. in a nice way. they asked us questions and need manied us and -- need many joked with and always. you can't just say i want freedom. people think they are free because they are personally free. hey can buy their own clothes, make their own friends, go wherever they want, listen to eat whatever , they want. that doesn't mean they are civically free. you have to engage in democracy. don't used to say if you use your rights you are going to lose your rights.

pick anotherhad to country in the world, only if you had to where would you find country that would maybe do it better than us? holland, ll, possibly scandinavia, canada. think our democracy is being depleted, it is weaker now in so many ways. in the centrated power hands of a few against the many. and nment snooping corporations playing with our count jobs and xporting industry and all of the fine print that we have to sign on line and the poverty is increasing. competitive any more when it comes to justice. we are not the standard. australia. australia has a minimum wage. guess this. f you are over 20 it is $15.90 and the australian dollar is roughly equal. if you are under 20 it is either

$13 an hour or $11. lower y have a unemployment rate. and you have to vote in federal elections. they have 98% turnout and no time andn has to spend money begging people to vote. host: should that be a this country? guest: i think we should have a debate on it. they just accept it. if you have an excuse it is ok to 98% vote. if you violate it they fine you and put it in the electoral fund. sydney a cab once in and i wanted to have a conversation with the cab driver. a country they force you to vote. he gave me this most disgusted like it is a civic duty, mate. you talk about in your introduction you used to be a

hitchhike hitchhiker. guest: yes. host: tell us about when that happened and why is it relevant this book? guest: i found travel tedious adventure.hiking was you don't know who is going to pick you up and you don't fall up.eep when they pick you you talk to them. everyone picks you up. pearexpertise. one knows about cutting timber, weupblgidgets.ing learned a lot from the drivers. we came before a scene of a and emergency vehicles. that made an impact. screaming and silence and mangled cars. me interested t in doing a law paper at school automobile design. no seat belts, no padded panels,

latches. door in those days were bouncing like pottery r with the dash panel being like a knives.l of you could get killed in a collision.hour i lost a lot of friends. everybody did in those days far from serious injuries in high school, college. so i got angry. i learned about how the in detroit were suppressing their own engineers, world war i re in airplanes it keep the pilot from out.ing i really got angry. host: how many copies of "unsafe did you sell? guest: well, in hard copy probably close to 100,000. when it went to did you paper . ost: is it still in circulation? guest: yes, you can still get it.

host: there goes back it 1960. if you have ever seen this before. it features jimmy dean. a minute and 20 seconds. [video clip] state that a to state fair is fun. have fun to see what texas tkodone or the prizes they haven at this state fair ribbon will be going corvair.evrolet that ir, that is the car is getting all the stares everywhere in goes. there is a reason. gives you more advantages and more appeal than any other compact car on the road today. you take room for instance. in e is room for six adults this car. you saw there member, pop, and five kids. another thing. when you ride to the fair in

is going to, nobody have their knees up under their chin because there is lots of room. that floor is practically flat. is in the rear. the chevrolet people put it the best ive you performing compact car on the road today. a real performer. you practically anywhere. host: your reaction. before. never saw that well, there are a few things more ut like you got carbon monoxide than you could tolerate. see it.t smell it or the steering column was rammed driver in a left front collision because it was positioned to be exposed to that. danced on you when you turned a corner. it could go out of control and roll over. it was a pretty car but it was a deadly car.

like -- i did it feel really don't like the question but what was your reaction when you found that you were having impact when you wrote that book? i know it was only chapter one corvair.about the guest: the rest was about the uppression of safety to go including emission control by the auto companies. they had a lot of scientists and who could have given us terrific merotor vehicles. have an impact at the beginning because you couldn't get on tv in those days or radio mention a car by make and model critically. toronto, cbc to will a program called "this hour and beamed ys" through windsor into detroit and with auto company spokesperson and when i came back it washington i started calls to go on tv. this was in 1965. he book came out november 30, 1965, almost the 50th

anniversary. general of orney iowa had hearings in des moines hauled theety and he brass from detroit to there. they didn't like it. then "new york times" wrote it up and down here in washington rib by cough, he was my connecticut he said to his aide we have to get going on this. being upstaged by an attorney general in iowa. so he had hearings. meantime g.m. was following me. get hired detectives to dirt on me and followed me around the country. ven interviewed some of my classmates from law school. a this all went public and robert kennedy and fred harris were on the committee and they hauled the unheard of in detective and the

that they hired who was like out of a damon runyon novel for a hearing. anyway, the outrage resulted in the passage of the motor vehicle highway safety laws of 1966 signed by lyndon johnson. white housee to the for the signing ceremony. over a million lives and millions of injuries diminished. an impact on car imports because they had to meet u.s. higher.s that were host: back to this book you saw out that george will an accident outside of his house, walked outside, saw there was somebody deceased from the and endorsed the air bag. what relevance did that have to book? guest: it makes my point. he auto safety law was passed unanimously in the house of representatives. republicans and democrats. when you get down to people live and talk about death and jump

and crashes and lost of loved the ideology tends to dissipate. writing, he as writes his columns and there was a crash in front of his home and saw a woman dead on the street and came back and said these pitiless -- ractions -- nice phrase the government should mandate seat belts. campaigned against them in michigan saying they inhibited freedom. by a detroit reporter and i said i agree with mr. reagan. freedom from our going through a windshield. host: where did you get the idea need of seat belts and air bags? guest: i did a paper at harvard school, third-year paper which i turned into the pwaopbo it was at any speed" and the pentagon who spent $4 funding o $5 million some harvard school public

helmet and cornell medical study what happens in a crash. the so-called second collision. is you lit llision an abutment or truck. the second is when you are in you go through the windshield or you are ejected. this?d they do because they were losing more air force men on the highways in in the korean war. those studies came to my attention. i was very absorbed by them. and ided to write articles i decided to interview on the q.t. engineers from the auto companies. e would go around the detroit metropolitan airport in a cab plain y would give me tphfrpls and i turned it -- envelopes and i turned it into got wind and .m. hired private detectives. what i learned is when you about safety and who didn't have a story of somebody

eing injured or their being injured or killed in a car ideology idea dissipated. to do to right thing like the ective cars g.m. scandal with the chevrolet cobalt and other models. it impressed me. bookis the genesis of this "unstoppable: the emerging left-right alliance to dismantle the corporate state." to specifics own the sense of fair play comes in. the golden rule philosophy comes in. corporatist ideology. or democrat >> convergence. you use that word throughout the book. it mean? guest: throughout the country there is a convergence of agreement on very important things that is being

corporatist y the group on both the democratic and republican party and their leaders. start direction with public opinion around the country. doesn't matter they are upset the patriot act on privacy, simple liberty and free speech. like subsidies, handouts and give aways to backs of ns on the taxpayers especially the wall bail out type why nobody was put in jail. crackdown on corporate crime. they think big business gets away with a lot of stuff. main street versus wall street. they don't like empire. don't like they empire. they don't like us pushing all over the world and into losing our d soldiers and they come back traumatized and wasting all ions of dollars while of these people around the

country see crumbling public works. repair and we are blowing it up overseas with trillions of dollars and not repairing. that is a convergence issue. hey don't like the pulldown trade agreements. nafta and w.t.o. obama will not get through that trans-pacific agreement if he ever negotiates the asian countries because it is a left-right convergence in the house of against fast s tracking this agreement through with limited debate and no amendments. so, there's now an operating convergence in state on juvenile justice crime reform. legislatures. and dodge ross who is -- donald oss who is leading this says that he couldn't get the bills through without a left-right alliance. is beginning it happen in rethinking the war on sentences forlong possession, say, of marijuana.

and ave newt gingrich others starting a group called right on crime. convergences which can have a complete new realignment to get things done in this country, to ut these solutions on the ground that are on the shelf unused while we wallow in our discouraged get about our country and withdraw from civic engagement and don't out and vote and don't try to get more choices on the ballot parties, et cetera. so, this is what this book is about. say this is pie in the sky. it is not pie in the sky. the auto safety bill was a convergence victory 1983 there was a right-left convergence to defeat boondoggle clinch river breeder reactor in tennessee unstoppablensidered because it had senator howard

ronald hind it and reagan and we got together right nd left groups and beat it 56 to 40. bill,t the whistle blowing the false claims act of 1986 that was senator grassley congressman d berman democrat that got that opposed by theas corporations. the more recent whistle blowing government fraud and corporate fraud on the taxpayer, left-right alliance. tried to find our first appearance on this network. 22, we found was november 19 what not sure but here is you were saying then. [video clip] >> people are looking at current consumer issues. the observation can be made all he big battles have been fought, some won, some lost but fights lie the small ahead. >> that is not true.

there are a great many problems. schools.in a lot of unfinished business worthy.cars more crash safer pharmaceutical products. dri rinking water that is relatively pure. there is a lot left to be done. today?what would you say this is 28 years laters 29 years later. almost 30 years. what is left? debit credit card and card economy that is full of gouging interest rates and fine penalties and overcharges. people are hooked into the whole out.em and can't get we have a whole project called completelycts.org to servitude contract that we are in. freedom of our contract. cars are safer. food is better labeled. people are eating more nutritious food.

areas is in many cleaner. the air is cleaner. on the other hand, i have a lot of hospital induced infections preventable and maybe americans die every day the c.d.c. terms us from that. medical negligence that is not being controlled. school of public health estimates that about -- or arvard medical school as well as maybe 100,000 deaths a kwraoyear. technologies and regulators being firsted to job, did forked to sleep -- forced to sleep on the play.he mice will that is what we have seen in the recent g.m. situation. the other thing that is more and more giant corporate mergers. merge g companies are being, communication companies,

cable, time warner. fewer and fewer corporations they will throw their power around. it is in their d.n.a. that is called predictability by the corporate executives, strategic planning. but it is not good for competition and innovation. host: is that a partisan issue, right, left, republican, democrat, the bringing together of these large corporations? guest: you know, when you see federalllon against the communications commission loosening the restrictions on tv, radio or newspapers can be owned by one company in area, it was left-right. they got the house of to vote to ves overrule it. it was left-right. n.r.a. apnd kevin cross. you want to think more than that? i think the whole realignment in .ur country is ready but, as i say in this book, and

quote the obstacles. a i say, it requires realization that there is a big majority here that can be put left right on very important redirections for our country. have you many years lived in washington? guest: since about 1963. it here?you like guest: i have to like it here because that is where the federal government is. i like the idea that there are not skyscrapers. card? do you have a credit guest: no. never. host: how do you travel? bureau and i use cash. i don't believe in impulse invading privacy. there is a lot of control you credit when you have card and debit cards. unfortunately they are forcing do it like try to rent a car with cash and more and more from ercion is pushing cash. even in taxi occasion.

host: do you own a car? guest: no. host: have you ever owned a car? guest: yes. host: did you buy american or foreign? it was a 1949 studebaker. host: that is the last car you had? guest: yes. host: why don't you own a car? guest: it is a pain in the neck. and you live in the city you have good transportation and i don't want to look for parking space. nuisance. i try to control my time. e-mail. why i don't have i have a colleague who has between e-mail and everything else it is noon. you haven't gotten anything done. you can lose a lot of time that way. host: you have been on this years.80 do you feel it? guest: no. host: do you work every day? course.yes, of it is a joy to work. host: what kind of hours do you keep? uest: i pretty much work all the time. once in a while i take in a

movie. in a ballgame but and it love your work is citizen work. it is fighting for justice as i see it. you live in a country that gives you a collapse to do that and do that and you see doors closing in congress and elsewhere you have to keep your generations to come. host: do you own a television set? a television iven set but it is not quite working with the arithmetic antenna. right antenna but i listen to c-span radio. host: do you watch television at ever? guest: once in a rare while. f there is a champion game in sports or "60 minutes" once in a while i do. read a , of all -- you lot about conservatives -- you conservatives.out which one have you worked the most with? guest: well, i worked on some

issues with pat buchanan on trade. grover nordqvist on corporate welfare. competition. he's the competitive enterprise person. capitol hill you get your alls returned quicker from conservatives than liberals these days. it is sad to see. once visited senator grassley and he saeid look what the democrats are up to. a hearing my at committee and i was against this carried interest for wall street venture capital and john kerry nd charles schumer were supporting wall street. so, here is the point. there is convergence on the that has been running the country into the ground. t is called the corporate liberal represented by the clintons and the corporate

represented by the know. we all they are the ones who got rid of glass gulation and stegall and any chance to dearrive activist. hey are the ones that concentrat concentrating a georgia business more and tell communications and and drug companies more gave us nafta and the world trade organization. votes that lican helped clinton get those through. something ing about new on the people's side in the of convergence but corruption of both parties with money and other attractions has on for a long time. ost: in 1989 here you are testifying on something that is a constant issue. [video clip] >> ralph nader do you think

ongress deserves a 350% salary increa increase? >> not at all they got a $14,500 increase 23 months ago. they have increased it 48% since to the present. they get generous pension and life ive health insurance, $3,000 housing deduction and list of perks the so i think train that they are now in the top 1% of ncome in the u.s., 99% the people get to earn less. the deficit in washington, if you look at the scandals that are not corrected srfling the executive -- involving the executive branch nd all the program cutbacks in head start and health and safety and education and low income housing and the rest, this is the time to raise these income? >> what about the issue if you paid them more they wouldn't need the money from outside and they get from lobbying

groups? guest: they will always need the to get campaign contributions because that is going sky high. ersonally, i think they get about $170,000 plus benefits. would like that. host: did you ever stop a pay increase? yes, using talk radio and just roaring back. bipartisan effort to raise their pay. believe how hung up they are on this. in one area the speaker of the wright and his michael rt congressman from illinois had a press conference and they said anybody running on our ticket for pay ess who raises the increase negatively we will cut off. fellow e was a challenging newt gingrich and he was going to beat newt gingrich pay grab issuehe in georgia and they cut him off

forhe didn't have any money a single tv ad and annuity was re-elected, came back, dumped im wright as the speaker and touched tom foley and took over the house of representatives in 1994. host: so the parties were going to cut the money off on anybody that issue? . yes host: in chapter five you have suggestions of convergence. first is brought up a lot. one.s your first get the department of defense to audit its budget. department had to audit its budget? guest: because it would be too embarrassing. it slain why -- in the why $9 billion first few months of the invasion of iraq disappeared. the first term of the obama state department can't account for t. you are not talking about peanuts

here. biggest business in the united states, the pentagon, of the lion, half federal government's discretionary budget and we have and it is iet union still humming along and isn't even audited. accountant would ever, ever operate that way? what business would ever be able operate that way. host: why hasn't the g.a.o. them?ed guest: they can't. every year they put their report to congress on the pentagon and say sorry we y don't have the data availablor the pentagon to have an audit. so, i think that once you audit the pentagon then you know where it is ey is and where going and where it is misspent. bama and hillary clinton attacked libya, they didn't even a congress.oney from they got $1.35 billion somewhere in the pentagon budget. where left-right

supported. industrial tary complex that eisenhower warned s approximately control the political heights in congress so you will have john boehner. he doesn't want it and you have mcconley. he doesn't want it. the democratic counterparts they re not speaking up much about it. host: why do not a secretary of audit? want an the ones that go in and talk about cutting back, wasn't that do it?asy way to . they are all promising. second of defense said we are on an audit. the latest deadline is 2017. election.r the host: what do you do in order to bring this issue up other than here?n it have you ever done anything publicly to get an audit of 9 pentagon? column atave a weekly made are.org -- nader.org. about it on capitol hill. i talk about it with conservatives who want the audit. but, you know, as i say,

eisenhower warned by the industrial complex. ou see the enormous waste and enormous giveaway contracts to k.b.r. and la salle burton and -- and haliburton and look and martin and boeing raytheon. people think there is waste. they have no idea what is going tax dollars. own there is a great convergence of eft-right on that which has to emerge. host: has this president done anything about this? talk i have heard him about -- it is now a lip service issue. the pentagon. the government accountability g.a.o., they have been told by the pentagon that they by have data for an audit 2017. we have heard that song before. hey don't even know where billions of spare parts are sometimes. they have to buy new spare parts. all over the f world.

barney by ron paul and frank formed a caucus in 2010, ibertarian and massachusetts liberal democrat to cut the bloated pentagon budget. host: why has not the big media covered things like this? they?ve guest: they have covered it very little. walter pincus a little. foreignrage of military policy other than independent media is ditto coverage. the same no it matter whether different newspapers. nce in a while there is investigative work from the "washington post," insurance and large this doesn couldn't occur if the media was it day after day. you would have to have public hearings. in 2013 you showed a side of yourself that we don't often i want you to -- this

has something to do with the funniest celebrity chemica contest. [video clip] people think i t o don't laugh. saw you on "saturday night live". ive times and i didn't see you laugh. and that hurt me. three ave chosen different laughs and i'm going .o audition them and i hope by your reaction i one.pick because if you are going to be a current personality you have to how to life and hide the all.ty of it so, the first laugh. one from al franken. like this.

second laugh is inspired by great human the rights leader. it is like this. hee, hee, hee, hee. call ird laugh is when i the wall street authority laugh. ho, ho. host: where did you get this? found it. guest: i was in the clip. into doing lked you that? guest: grover nordqvist. too.s competing the tax cutter now turned into antiunion. don't think he should get into that area. but he's also against corporate subsidies andrate bailouts. years ago.d now he is give of ohio and

corporate welfare and not doing anything about it. it is a tough thing to break through. book i show how to break through here. revolutionary re committees of correspondents of patriots? they start with committees of correspondence in people in your left, right. joke about it, get together and ake your needs known to your members of congress and your state legislature. the media starts saying hey, this is bubbling up. it.be away ought it poll if they poll it like corporate welfare or patriot act or enforcement, e then what might happen is the media starts covering it. think tanks and academic world put out reports up on the les election scene. the problem with all of these 25 left-right re of convergence is they are off the

table. on the table when republicans and democrats run for election. when they are not on the table you can't get to first base. bottom up that i just described and plus maybe billionaire or two who might support it on a bigger scale, table.ut it on the once it is on the election table there's no stopping it. second one is establish rigorous procedures to valuate the claims of businesses looking for a government landout that with end bailouts.rate three restore efficiency in government procurement. lengthy minimum wage within inflation. uest: that is going operational. left-right almost 80% support restore minimum wage to 1968 levels adjusted for inflation be $11.uld that is operational.

atiation reform. to fail the two big banks. guest: that comes in almost 90% of the polls. into the moved political arena or electoral banks own it the place as storr durbin said. redirect contributions to charity. -- if president to, a spoke as i urged him to leaders of citizen groups, charitable groups, religious charity charities, in washington as did, urging them to give more money to tell, it with create more jobs. the private fund sector, the huge job ctor, is a producer and if the president

or 15 billion 10 more a year you would get hundreds of thousands of new working to help young hildren in need or to clean up the environment. they would expand all of these groups.it host: how big is the nader operation these days compared to the most?ere doing guest: well, you know, i spin off groups. not a control streak. we have probably created close groups directly and indirectly all over the country. the student public interest groups which i hope the -- ring tongues will foundation will write up. we have the pension rights spin them off. public citizen the bpweubiggest. i don't believe in controlling. our nader people do raid

raider reports they were the authors. i wrote the introduction. they were the authors. age 21, 22. so when you ask that question it is a ripple effect throughout the country. don't know what it amounts to in terms of budgets. $50on't know, $40 million or million a year. host: who pays for it now? it is small f contributions, foundation grants. some publication sales. of it is the usual traditional giving. ost: what would you say to somebody that -- and it would be interesting to know what young think of you today, whether they have any idea what you have been involved in -- want to omebody said i be the next ralph nader. in would they need to do order to know what you know? guest: i will say you are going a very gratifying life. justice is a use great work of human beings on earth. you can't have liberty or

freedom without justice. hen i would get down to specifics apropos your question. ne is you have to share the credit. you can't have eagle question because - ego control you minimize yourself. the second is you have got to what i call civic personality. that is, you can't be burn out.d and you are going to lose a lot of battles. you win some but you will lose so you have to have a built-in resiliency. when the doctor goes to a day he doesn't expect only healthy people there. e expects people who need the doctor's help. so, you have to have a resilient si. that is very important. the third thing is you have to keep up to date. a don't want to sound like tired tire. you have to keep up to date and yourself. host: what did you read that we think about to stay up with what is going on inside the

government? is good to leave through the congressional record various congressional reports. it is very important to read the business press. i read often baron's financial weekly, "wall street journal" every day. "washington post," "new york times". i read ometimes i look at what the patents are being issued and say patents.ergy corpora court depositions. good material t out of tort litigation. we saw that in the asbestos area tobacco area. that is what got "60 minutes" media interesting. host: do you pay any attention internet? do you have a computer on your desk? guest: no. why would i have a computer? an underwood typewriter. when the lights go out due to working.l storm i'm host: you are not on the

internet? whot: no, but i have people and they internet give me reams of material, sometimes too much. is no information retrieval problem here. putting the information on knowledge, to judgment, to experience and to wisdom. a lot of young people today ever get past the information button. they are overwhelmed by bits of information. host: do you think it is worse when you started this? guest: in a way. i find young people today know history than 20, 30, 40 years ago. don't know prominent people. they have people who don't know donohue. he was one of the best anyone in the country 20 years ago. host: was he your running made or campaign manager? no, no. host: but he was on your side.

guest: phil donohue is the greatest exponent of the first practice in the 20th century in america. times and he had falwell on 32 times. he had people on he disagreed with and he gave them air time. that is when you know he in the first amendment. 2000 you are in the campaign for president. [video clip] >> i hope that those of you have talking with others who are wavering on the least of the lesser of two evils of rome will remind them roosevelt in dell knano said each citizen is equal to citizen in the ballot and where privacy reigns

they can only answer to their conscience. and a vote for conscience, a hopes, a vote for your dreams, a vote for a higher what our n level of country can become to what it can mean to the world, those are votes that you need to regist of two , not the lesser evils where at the end of the day you are still left with each. ost: what did you get out of the three times you ran for president? guest: we demonstrated that it two-party tyranny and doesn't tolerate competition. it doesn't like more voices an for the voters even though the voters poll that they want more voices an choices. and we fought them in the courts victories in the courts on ballot access, for example. that people are very demoralized and their worst giving up on themselves.

can't fight you big hall that is the problem today. that ple realize that constitution starts with we the people, not we the corporation. it never mentioned corporation in the constitution. the power y realized that they have that is what this book is all about. alliance of left-right on one area after another. they could have stopped and started they would not recognize our country in a lot of the world. people still mad at you in the democratic party? uest: yeah, they have a residual. not the average democratic voter liberal t i call the intel general sa. for gore everybody else being equal if you got tennessee you won. steal it in t florida they would have won. if he got clinton's arkansas he won. have he doesn't blame the green party.

but it is easy to blame the part for these things. because they feel a little that they couldn't beat a bumbling governor from texas who had an awful record that was not paraded around the country by the democratic party during that campai campaign. host: why didn't you keep last time? guest: in 2012 i ran three times officially. 2002, 2004, 2008. it is almost impossible unless a billionaire to fight two parties squeezing out of debates. the majority of people wanted me debate ebate but the commission was created and controlled by the republican and they atic parties and squeeze you off the ballot and you try to get back on. it is labor day by the time you off and you are exhausted. you have no money and you have eight-week campaign.

the media is ignoring you because you can't win. i keep telling people who say why support a third party you can't win. say aren't you glad the liberty party existed against votery or women's right to or farmer progressive parties they never won but they are put n the table the redirections that were eventually picked up by one or two of the major parties. hope thatyou have any that can be changed where the loosen their control of the system? a letter , i put out to 20 billionaires who have somen lightened activity -- some enlightened urging them to throw as an at in the ring independent just to break up the that is tyranny turning so many voters off that if itre not going to vote is that tedious repetitious day s or the news of the all kinds of issues off the

table. website in 2008 open issues taken 18 off the table by republicans and democrats, not discussible on my website. hey include things like majority support for medicare. everybody in. efficient and humane. living wage, cracking down on corporate crime. back from empire, getting rid of the corporate toured tax code and putting in something much better productive.le and public works investments. on and on and on. they don't want to talk about it. republicans and democrats. so you end up with two or three four repetitive issues and they assail each other than and bored every day it is the same they are looking for a gaffe in order it break tedium. this is what we deserve in this

country? that is absurd. we are better than that. to think of each other as individuals locking these areas.on or liberal vatives relies might find it interesting at the end of the back you have special gments and thanks to intercollegiate new es for keeping a declaration of independence co-edited by allen tate and agar and so many other works by thaufpl people where these books.ll of why are you throwing them a bone in this? uest: they reprinted a book written by people in the 1930's during the depression, owns ses, poets, who america and they called themselves decentralists and there is a chapter. they couldn't be fooled by wall street or the two parties. couldn't be fooled by even the new deal.

in is how basic they were terms of connecting freedom and property tion of ownership including share ownership. conservatives, they are really most of them are masquerading as conservatives who refer to adam smith and frederick hayek and i read tease d hilosophers, smith was hated giant combines. he wanted public works and living wage. he was fearful of government regulati by lation being taken over business. this is 1775, 1776. hayek the bikini guru or paul ryan, he was against medicare and medicaid because it was not universal. he wanted universal health insurance. he wanted a living wage. he had a safety net for the impoverished. even though he was very much

against socialist planning of the economy. so they are distorting these icons for their own purpose. host: you say in the book really only 10% of the voter change or have to be convinced to go one side or the minute.t the last 10% only? guest: yes because most of them voters and will vote republican or democrat ecause of their grandparents and parents. host: so they spend $10 billion 10%.s only for guest: they would be lucky. host: about six million. could swing. host: more than that. 10% going the other way you could get a huge landslide. what we have to focus on it is within our hands to bubble left-right alliances on one issue after another and onnect them to the state legislatures and congress and

they goe campaigns when into your area to put these issues on the table. ronald reagan once and he agreed with me against corporate welfare. my business friends not to put their hands in the washington trough. elected re he was president. i debated milton friedman. e was against licensing for doctors. i said what about barbers saying they are doctors and surgeons. said people would figure it out but i got him on pollution. you have to have either taxing pollution or regulation of pollution. host: which liberal in history put at the top on the pedestal and which conservative? fighting bob debs.ette and eugene reporter said to debs what do you most regret fighting for working people. under our egret that constitution the american people can have almost anything they

want but it just seems they that much at all. wow! see. to control people is keep their expectation level down. host: what about a conservative? obviously edmund burke is conservative. ut even on some areas even robert taft from ohio he opposed america.rnment of geez he was the only one in congress. host: the only person? guest: the only person. he was for a living wage. was for public housing. wanted assistance to the poor. he believed in public works. passed the taft hartley bill against working people and in realized he er he tipped the balance too much in favor of corporations and he it.ted to reform this is -- he would be driven he of the party today by t republicans in congress.

e have a huge breaking ground for justice and forward looking. this is why i wrote the book. book.a short host: it is. pages.bout 215 what happens if all of a sudden -- 'm not suggesting this ralph nader can't do what he does any more? movement?ns to your guest: they are roaring away. that is the key thing. principle llowed the purpose leadership is to produce more leaders not more followers. tried to do that. i have got young people being access it books, media, start their own groups. me johnny l appleseed. host: if ump not doing what you would be your profession. guest: a satirist. humor ills. if there is total justice you can say the purpose of life is laughter. is so insightful.

you: how unusual was it for to do the humor on that clip we showed? day you kocome to so injustices ces and it is hard to go down to onnecticut avenue and do humor but you have to switch once in a while. on "saturday night live" five times but not since the 2000 campaign. you know who hink is in charge. democrats, of course. you want toomething pleasure before you quit all of this if you ever do? what would that be? whether is number one on the list? two number are ones. number one is getting youngsters learning civic skills in their connecting with adult supervision and learning how runs, how it ty isn't run, how to improve it,

right where they live. they will emerge high school and college as stalwart and leaders and activists building civic institutions, which is what our democracy has to have. here a letter in to billionaire. why? money.justice needs the abolitionists in 19th slavery were t supported by rich bostonians. supported by rich widows or spouses. rights movement the money came from the courier and stern family in substantial degree. so, this movement, this alliance it dismantle the corporate state are what conservatives call crony needs money. and we have a lot of billionaires and all we need are i'm in my to say 70's's and 80's's. i don't like where our country and world is going. i want to help this effort to

revive our country. host: who thought of the name of this book? guest: i did. once you put those two together. it is unstoppable. t is unstoppable in congress, unstoppable in legislature. once you get that public opinion into political and electoral arena it is unstoppable. whistle decorate blowing law in congress protecting government whistle corporate fraud and government waste. unstoppable. huge majorities. even though the corporations and military and industrial complex didn't want it. that is what this book is all about. it puts the tools in your hands, folks. it takes away your excuses. ost: ralph nader our guest, "unstoppable: the emerging left-right alliance to dismantle the corporate state." you very much. tahank you.

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