emissions by 2030. after that, chris smith remembers the 25th anniversary of the pro-democracy protests in tandem and square -- tiananmen square. >> in a few moments, discussion of baseball in american life, including comments from supreme court justice samuel alito. and in a little more than an hour, the administration announced the clean air plan to reduce carbon emissions from power plants. and in the heritage foundation recent supremeow court decision striking down limits on campaign contributions may have had -- may affect first amendment free-speech rights. >> c-span's new book "sundays at eight" features michael lewis. >> we are at the beginning

rather than the end. there are real structural problems. -- iwe will be living mean, i'm not an economic forecaster, but every thing i read suggest we will be living with unusually high levels of unemployment, a lot of pain from over indebtedness. over a quarter of the country is on food stamps. it is not a great depression. we are not repricing exactly what happened in the 1930's. but it is a version of that. >> read more of our conversation with michael lewis and other featured interviews from our footnotes and q&a programs from 8:00" nowsundays at -- sundays at eight now available at your favorite bookseller. at a stall and american life.

the discussion includes justice samuel alito and others. this is a little more than an hour. >> good afternoon. as belle allen used to greet his audiences, hello, everyone, and how nice to see you. how wonderful it is to see you to wonderful to welcome you the luncheon on the subject of baseball, america's game. .ome people seem confused

they actually think pro football is america's game, but it's not. game.ll is america's this is sponsored today in part by the boston red sox. i chair for the red sox. [applause] i chair for the red sox the great fenway park reuters series. this is an extension of that series. the red sox are the only team in professional sports that sponsors a literary series. i'm also president of the city club of san diego in the denver form -- and the denver for him, which are two american public collectively of 70 years and more than 2200 programs

presented in the public interest and the dialogue of democracy. this is our second washington event. more that lie ahead, you will help us make that decision. in many ways, if you are going to do a literary series, this is one of the great duties in which to do it. -- great cities in which to do it. there are a number of writers here today. carroll, who did the great book on clarence darrow and tip o'neill. he is right there. hello, jack. jane liddy did two of the books ever, one on mickey mantle, and the other on sandy koufax. and this levy is down -- ms. levy is down here. [applause] and to every writer in the room, we want particularly to tell you how much we appreciate you and the art form in which you are engaged, because there are very

few, if any, that are more important. i have several other introductions i would like to make. first, the former director of the federal bureau of investigations, the honorable william sessions. [applause] and the former council of the of united states, mr. george w bush, miss harriet miers. [applause] i also want you to meet the cochairs of the washington writers series, two extraordinary individuals, huge big successful -- hugely successful in the field of business. first, i field. ike, stand so we can greet you. [applause]

and greg -- greg rosenbaum. mr. rosenbaum is somewhere -- there he is. [applause] knowledget to read the president of one of the owners of the washington nationals, faye field. [applause] on the senior director for the ballpark experience of the nationals, maggie cussler. [applause] we have one book that is available for signing at the end. there are a few left. club leave the university without getting mr. will's book and having him sign it for you. introduce our panel. from the united

states supreme court, associate justice samuel alito. [applause] can -- come on up. times andthe new york cbs, david brooks. [applause] somebody who wrote a book entitled "is this a great game or what" which was the funniest book i ever read from espn, the one and only tim kurkjian. [applause] and one of my all-time favorites . to know her is to love her, from "usa today," christine brennan. [applause]

panel, the on the incomparable-- the george will. [applause] in the book is on the 100th anniversary of wrigley field, a nice little place on the north side. now it is my privilege to introduce our moderator, who has become a very great friend. you have a copy of one of his books. he has written to others, one on baseball, one on leon jaworski and james baker. he is an attorney from dallas, texas. an extraordinary fellow, he's here with his wonderful family. i would ask that you welcome please, talmage posten. [applause]

>> before we begin, i'm going to take a little personal privilege. you see the rangers cap here. at the front table, we have part of the ownership group and executive vice president from the rangers -- from the texas rangers, who have come to town this weekend to play a series. it's the first time that the texas rangers have played a game in the nations capital since they left town 41 years ago as the washington senators. [laughter] this is an historic occasion this weekend. as george will points out in his marvelous new book "years ago," a man who probably knew nothing about baseball, with sir winston churchill, spoke about parliamentary ideals using words we hope to achieve in the next hour. churchill said a good dialogue is quick, informal, and

conversational, and requires a very small space, and on great occasions there should be a sense of crowd and urgency. cap to sirof the winston, our esteemed panelists today are all people at the top of their field, and are quick conversational, particularly as it regards our national pastime. we have a good sense of the crowd and a clock that compels a sense of urgency, so let's talk baseball. the first topic of conversation, your initial passion for the game. bart giamatti once said "the appeal of baseball is intimately wrapped up with the place where you got to know it in your youth." the question for the panel, where did you first get wrapped up in baseball? and in that lace, briefly -- in describe theriefly

place the game takes up in your heart. justice alito, do you want to lead off? >> when i think about summers when i was young, they seem to have lasted forever. that is what my friends and i would do all summer. we played baseball. we collected baseball cards. unfortunately, my strategy then was not to collect a lot of mickey mantle cards or willie wouldars, -- cards, which now be valuable. i would trade my extra all-star cards for the card of some guy who played one game. [laughter] so i would have a complete series. and i remember going to games with my family. in those days, we would go to a doubleheader on sunday, i think, for under $15. we could drive to philadelphia park on the street, i tend to games, bring our own lunch. we had a special spot where he was almost an obstructed view seats, but not quite, so it was

a good bargain. and we tried to get into the two games before the sunday curfew in philadelphia. you could not in those days start naming -- start an inning sunday.:00 on but i'll be darned. -- >> i'll be darned. christine brennan, how about you? >> yes, there is always a toledo or two in the crowd. in any case, i grew up in the suburbs of toledo, ohio, and i'm the oldest of four kids. ix.d my own personal title my father, jim brennan, became the republican party chairman in 1988.county in ohio in a rockford republican and the biggest feminist i knew. anyway, here i am growing up in the 1960's and 1970's and i wanted to follow baseball and he encouraged that every step of the way, as did my mom and siblings. scoreboards those

-- score books, which i'm sure many of you had, and i listened by my radio and listened to the .oledo mud hens games not only were there very few girls keeping score of minor-league baseball at the age of 10, but i was. and it was encouraged in our household. to theseason tickets toledo mud hens. my dad arranged those for us. and we also went to a lot of detroit tigers games, because those of you that know baseball well know that the tigers have, except for a few years, been the triple-a team of the detroit targets -- detroit tigers. to follow oure favorites of the mud hens when they would be called up by the tigers and then go see them play at venerable tigers stadium. you, i also traded baseball cards. we would do something else. we would send the cards to the players and asked them to sign them, and every single time -- this is obviously a different time theyow -- every

did. and they send them back. but the good old days. senators manager. i have hank aaron's signature on a baseball, one of those all-time leader cards you may remember where it still said babe ruth, seven-14, and hank signature on it. i still have all of those and i'm not giving any of them up. [laughter] of her lovee know for the cubs. where did it all begin? >> i grew up midway between chicago and st. louis and age -- and at an age to tender to make major life decisions i had to choose between the cardinals and the cubs. becamemy friends cardinals fans and grew up cheerful and liberal. [laughter] i became a gloomy conservative. i played eightball all briefly and badly for a little league that had commercial

sponsors. my team was the middendorf funeral home panthers. [laughter] our color was black. baseball at that time, i think -- as christine mentioned the radio, baseball was literally in the air in central illinois. you had two teams with buddy brown and then two teams in chicago, and of course, the cardinals. i listened to a lot of baseball. and i think i became a cubs fan because i could not bear the cardinals announcer, who was harry carey. [laughter] who is now the statue outside wrigley field. no good deed goes unpunished. you, george'stell new book has a great little anecdote about harry carey, and i will leave it at that. but don't miss it. fans,brook, new york mets

how did baseball make a line drive into your heart first? >> in 1968, i was seven years old living in lower manhattan and i discover the new york mets. it was fine. they were not good. [laughter] , the skiesxt year opened up, got appeared with the -- and godire appeared with the pillar of fire. miracle of miracles, and may the most magical moment of my life and certainly the most magical year in the mets history, every miracle could happen -- that could happen happened. a black cat walked in front of chicago and the mets ed baltimore orioles -- beat the baltimore orioles. and it taught me my life lessons. basically, their goals will happen, and a ball will owe through dr.'s life another year. and you will be a sunny, optimistic conservative.

>> tim, how did it start as a child? >> baseball is all we talked about in my house growing up. haddy, but nobody loved or a better feel for the game than my father. and he was a really good player in his day. i had two brothers in the baseball hall of fame at catholic university. this is all we did, all we talked about growing up. in the sixth grade, missed fevered, my teacher, stopped class at 1:30 p.m. so we could watch the world series games between the red sox and the cardinals. and for a young guy like me who was madly in love with the game at that point, to have a teacher say, we are not studying anymore , we are going to watch the world series here, that was really important to me. i went tof course, walter johnson high school, named after the greatest pitcher of all time. and i played baseball and basketball there, but i also wrote for "the pitch," the school paper. [laughter]

and i did some work for the yearbook, and that was called "line-up." i figured i went to a school and after the biggest pitcher ever. i figured i had to make a career move. baseball i better be a writer and here i am 35 years old and still a baseball writer. [applause] >> second topic, baseball heroes. bart giamatti said among all the men who play baseball, there is very occasionally a man of such qualities of heart, mind, and transcends even the great and glorious game. the question for the panel -- give us your perspective on the ballplayer who most has transcended the game. george, do you want to start? >> no. [laughter]

no, i hesitate, because transcending baseball would be a vice. i will just tell you who my favorite player was. how is that? in my 60 something years watching baseball, my favorite player is rickey henderson. baseball, unlike football where a quarterback gets hot or a running back or a shooting guard in basketball can take over the game, it is a game where you could not take over the game, except he could. he would get up there in that crowd with the strike zone the size of rhode island and he would get to first base and he would deal second and get heard a an infield out and score on fly field over. if you look at his numbers, you have to put him among the all-time greats. and if you put him together, as we all do in our spare time, the all-time team, you get to the outfield and you've got babe

ruth. and it seems to me, if you're , then inplay a game your all-time outfield is rickey henderson. >> great. tim? >> i have a few. eddie up here, so brinkman was a shortstop for the washington senators when i was a kid, and he was great. when i met him as a scout, told him what a great fan i was of him and he looks at me like he could not believe that anyone actually watch him play. [laughter] howard wasse, frank my hero here, because he hit home runs to places where they are still not hitting them today. and he had been there 50 years ago. during my prime as a kid, willie mays was the best player i've to this day he is still the greatest player i've ever seen. i learned more watching cal ripken as a baseball player come and as a basketball player and others than anyone. and the other day i -- this is

the beauty of the game, i sat next to that sampodria of the red sox, who is an inch and a half taller than i am. and trust me when i tell you big -- my hands, which are for a little guy, my hands are twice as big as his. and he is the m.v.p. in the league a few years ago and he's still one of the best players in the game. and he looks more like me than anybody. if you were sitting in his room and you did not know who he was, you would not know that is destined for drogheda. that is the beauty of this -- that is destined for drogheda pedroia. and that is the beauty of the [applause] game. little guys can play baseball. [applause] >> tommy, what about you? one guy that i still admire y was think played greatl dave madigan. he had a great swing.

the wall across the plate before he would begin his swing and he would still complete his swing somehow. just a short, beautiful little swing. it was just tranquil and serene. i am reminded of rickey henderson, which does treat -- teach you one truth about the game was up it is not a game that rewards thinking all the time. [laughter] got thisnow where i story, i think most of my stories come from tim's book, so this could be a repetition. story that ia would not trust in the paper without checking this out. he was given his big bonus come his first big bonus in the majors. and the team noticed he never cashed the check. and they said, why haven't you cash this check? and he said, i framed it. i wanted to keep it as a souvenir. [laughter] and the other rickey henderson story i know is that he was playing -- he came to the mets and was playing a first base than that were a helmet on his

head -- i hope this is from your book. >> it is, it is. >> ok, you tell it. >> is your story. >> you wrote it. i'm not stealing it. >> the first baseman was john orman and he had a brain aneurysm, so he wore a helmet in the field just to protect his head. rickey played with him in new york, and then they ended up together interop so in he sees john l root -- in toronto and he sees john l root in toronto and he says, you know, i used to play with a guy in new york that laid with a helmet on. and l root said, ricky, that was me. [laughter] collect the check, by the way, was for $1 million. it was an expensive -- >> the check, by the way, was for $1 million. it was an expensive framed artifact. when ricky was with the yankees, he got on the team bus one day and team rules vary from team to team. he sat down in the front seat and someone said, that is for

people with tenure. and he said, tenure? i've got 16 years. [laughter] later in his career he called kevin -- kevin towers, then the general manager of the padres and left the following message on his voicemail. rickey, kt, this is calling about ricky. ricky wants to play baseball. that is why he is my hero. >> justice alito, who is the person who most transcended the great and glorious game echo >> i think without -- glorious game ? >> i think without question, the person who most transcended the game was jackie robinson. he was a figure of his stark importance beyond baseball. my favorite player growing up was richie ashburn. why i picked them, i don't know. he was a great player. i also don't know why i picked

the phillies. my situation was similar to george's. i lived in trenton, which was halfway between new york and philadelphia. and in the 1950's, the yankees won the world series practically every year. the phillies had never won a world series, so naturally i chose the phillies. [laughter] and i do think it has an effect on your thinking. but richie was a great lawyer. he was kind of a money ballplayer before his time. he almost never hit a home run, .ut he had a great eye he walked a lot. and he could foul off pitches almost indefinitely. greatminded me of a richie story as we were walking in. he would foul off. he was a left-handed hitter, so he would file off these line drives -- foul off these line drives into the seats. and on one occasion, the ball hit a woman and she was hurt. they were carrying her out, maybe in a stretcher. but they were carrying her out, and the next pitch is in and

richie hits another foul ball, hit the same woman on the -- [laughter] all right, christine. >> these guys are a tough act to follow. however, in terms of transcendent can absolutely jackie robinson. i think we all would agree. i also have to just throw out a name i mentioned a bit ago, babe ruth. i bet you there are kids today playing baseball, hopefully just for fun in their yard, boys and girls. demanding to be babe ruth today. that transcends everything by decades, centuries, what have you. ruthtainly think babe lives on in many ways in all of us, and for the best reasons. again, my childhood favorites were the toledo mud hens who went up to the detroit tigers. and i do have a night brown. -- ike brown.

we watched him catch a ball barehanded over the outfield fence. he reached out and caught it barehanded and then through the runner out at second. you don't see that very often. and a fellow named tom timmermann. you might remove that name. he played for the tigers when they were not very good. -- you might remember that name. he played for the tigers when they were not very good. the mud hens,rom the clubhouse and the deck out were not sick -- dugout were not together. the players had to walk through the sand. and tom timmermann would say, you again? and it was, us again, as we got another autograph. he became a pretty good pitcher for the tigers during their lean years. those were my favorites. >> favorite teams. our giamatti grew up in

massachusetts and his favorite was the red sox, 15 years before the curse of the bambino ended. he said "the red sox are an affliction. the annually reenact the fall of ." ankind that is what used to be. "more than anything they re-create the aspiration, inspiration, and the declining into exile." as george points out in his new book, the poet robert frost talks about the love affair that people have with their team, but they also have lovers quarrel. what is the worst lovers quarrel you've ever had with your favorite beloved team? who wants to go first? echo -- nouarrel and lovers quarrel? we've got some rangers stories. [laughter]

in -- >> i will jump in. aguess it would not be baseball conversation if i did not mention the dreaded word cerro and performance-enhancing drugs. johnnie perl to last year for the tigers was suspended as part of the bs drug bust in baseball history to stop -- biggest drug bust in baseball history. i think we can all agree that is a good thing. and in the tigers had him come back and play in the postseason. i did a column and i thought that was just awful that he could come back. his suspension was up, but it seemed wrong to me. as someone who follows the steroids era in the olympics and in baseball, it's such a huge story and remained a huge story in many ways because of the lesson it teaches our children. we want that scrawny shortstop, boy or girl, and one third of steroid users in high school according to statistics are girls. boy who was girl a

a sophomore in high school who thinks if they get a little bigger and try something different they will be like their heroes. we want them to get the message by having these adults who are there "role models" tossed out of the game. i think it is a terrible thing for the tigers to do, to let him the joy oft him have being in the postseason. as you know, major league baseball has now come up with the role come to be known as the rule, that if you are suspended, you cannot reap the benefits of the postseason, even if your suspension is up, which was the case with her all last yearithperalta for the >> george, your book cover this. butler yates said life is a long preparation for something that never happens. [laughter] basically, any experience of being a cubs fan, there are some any low light.

the most important thing that ever happen in wrigley field it turns out didn't happen. the called shot was a myth that as we say in journalism, was too good to check. [laughter] this with some trepidation in front of my tent -- my friends from the texas rangers, because i was at game six in 2011, which i'm sorry. i was at the bartman game in chicago when the poor devil did what any fan would do, and indeed would a dozen other fans around him were doing, which was reaching for a foul ball that was in the stands. it was not an interference. and if moises had not had a little tantrum, which to this day he regrets, bartman would not be in the witness protection program, wherever he is. [laughter] leaving that night, this is game six, and we were walking down the ramps and someone shouted

"mr. will, we will get him tomorrow." and i said, "not a chance." when the cubs were in the postseason in 1984, they were playing the padres. this is the first two games of wrigley field, the best-of-five. the cubs won the first two games and would play three if necessary and sundry go -- in san diego. i'm walking out of the ballpark with another broadcaster who was a pitcher. and he said, now do you cubs fan believes -- now do you cubs fans believe? and i said, every cubs fan believes it is the best-of-five. the ball went through the legs of the first baseman durham. tim.l right, >> i guess my quarrel was with oral weaver of the orioles, who was with one of the three greatest managers of all time, a guy learned so much from. the first time i met him was in

1979. i was going to be the backup baseball writer at the washington star, and dan johnson introduced me to earl. i was a little nervous about all this. he said, earl, this is tim, and he will cover the team and help me out a little bit this year. and earl looks at me and says tim" and walks away, and that was it. [laughter] but he taught me so much. [laughter] he made me laugh so many times. and the only stroll -- story that you need to know about earl is that while he was managing one of his outfielders, pat kelly decided to join the ministry while he is playing in the major leaks. -- the major league's. pat waits for the moment to tell his manager of this really big step in his life. he finally finds a perfect moment and he goes to earl and he said, "earl, i'm going to

walk with the lord" and earl says, "i would rather you walk with the bases loaded." [laughter] funny,s last story isn't but tells you an awful lot about earl, and a lot about buck showalter. i was at a simulated game, which tells you what kind of life i lead. [laughter] buck -- and i'm sitting with earl weaver at a simulated game. there are four people there and we are sitting next to the dugout. but calls me over and i know him really well. don't start me on him either, and because we will be here all day. run says, we are going to the pickoff play that he famously invented in the 1960's. buck knows that earl invented this. so he ran it during this simulated game. he said, don't tell earl. buck did that for earl, runs the -- smacksarl snacks

me on the shoulder and says, that is my pickoff play. meaning, out of respect for earl, they ran this pickoff play. and am a 60 years later, earl recognized it and recognized, hey, they are doing this for me. that told me a lot about earl, and even more about buck showalter. alito, did you ever have a lovers quarrel with the phillies? >> o, yeah, quite a few. [laughter] without question, the biggest was in 1964. the phillies were, after having a horrible team, some of the worst teams ever in baseball in the early 1960's, somehow very improbably they were in first place with i think 12 games to ahead. games it was almost impossible to blow that. they were going to go to the world series. it was incredible for me, having suffered through those years. this ability to break your heart. i don't know if there's any other game that can do it quite

the same way. because there are these moments when something happens -- and the ball through buckner's legs, or there is a decision someone makes an years later, you wonder if it was the right decision. , geneillies manager locke, decided he did not have confidence in the number three and ever for starters. in those days, they had a four-pitcher rotation. chris short pitched everyday for the rest of the year and they lost. they went on a losing streak. the cardinals went on a big the worldreak and series came around and the phillies were not in the world series. -- myeally scarred my use youth. [laughter] >> david? >> jim bunning was exactly the same kind of senator as he was a pitcher. [laughter] was at game six with

you that night. it was in dallas at a big ballroom and we watched the game on a big screen. . spoke it was probably the least attended speech i've ever given. and then six through nine, and pride it was before the fall. because the rangers were winning. ira member people saying, six more outs, 5 -- ira member people saying -- actually, outs, fiveix more more outs. it was terrifying for me, because thomas was going to drive me home. [laughter] the champagne turn to harder stuff as the game slipped away. [laughter] fortunately, the better half of the family whispered to me, don't worry, i will take you home. my -- with mets fans, there are many feuds. trading nolan ryan was a really good idea. [laughter] call the guy called

me and said, you should really invest for this guide madoff. -- this guy, madoff. [laughter] reporters,estion for i've always tried hard to stay away from the team for fear it would affect my love. get ifss passes used to you work for the newspaper. i've done it a couple of times and i've felt acutely uncomfortable in the locker room. i love watching these guys play. i don't want to see them need not chose. [laughter] to maintain aied distance, but you guys have kept the love of the game even while still implement with them. -- intimate with them. >> right, cheating. ask of cheating are secretive, covert acts that seek to undermine the basic foundation of any contest and your -- destroy faith in the game's integrity and fairness. rusher had another perspective on cheating.

he said, i believe in rules, because if there were any rules, how could you break them? question. how does cheating affect your engagement with baseball? who wants to go first? but there are two kinds of cheating. are two kinds of cheating. the cheating with performance enhancing drugs is intolerable because it changes the playing field and requires people either to put their health at risk or their careers at risk. and therefore has been met with proper sanctions. and i think although we are in an ending competition between the good chemist and the bad chemist, the bad chemist producing drugs and the good chemist finding ways to test for them. it is probably correct her to say we can close the steroid parentheses in baseball, i think we are getting there. as far as cheating -- a great guy in broadcasting said, the only way to lewinsky --tulowi

tzki can be playing like this is if he is stealing signs. i say, get better signs. [laughter] for those of you who have not read it, there is an essay about as long as war and peace on the unwritten rules of baseball. don't steal if you are five runs ahead in the seventh inning, dumb stuff like that. it's a hilarious insight into what baseball considers if not cheating, at least bad manners. >> cheating, tim? >> cheat -- people have been cheating in baseball whether you like it for the last 130 years. interestingly, i have bobby valentine once -- bobby knows an awful lot about baseball. i asked him, is sticking a needle in your butts and doing steroids, is that cheating? and he said, is -- of course that is.

and i said, is nothing a baseball cheating? is scuffing a baseball cheating? and he said, of course it is. i said, is sticking a needle in your butts more cheating than scuffing a baseball? and he said, absolute not. the pitchers who are really good at scuffing a baseball are prettygood at it and can much guarantee success. whereas sticking a needle in your but does not guarantee anything. he's dealing guy i've heard put it that way. -- he is the only guy i've heard put it that way. dieterears ago, derek pretended to get hit by a pitch. isk cheater -- derekjeter our best guy. is however you multiply, he is our best. however, he got hit in the bat right here and he pretended like he got hit on the hand and he fakes like he got hurt and he ran to first base and got away

from the pitch. and people were outraged. how could derek jeter do this? and i had to defend him in baseball terms that this is what they are taught from the day they get to baseball in high school, if not before. everyone out there is taught as a professional player, you've got to get on, no matter what. forting is a little tricky me. i'm not sure i understand exactly what it is, but i know that for 130 years people have been cheating in baseball. and as tom always told me, if you are not cheating, you are not trying. [laughter] >> justice alito, where do you weigh in on cheating? [laughter] >> i'm going to defend cheating. [laughter] think the steroids were a real

black mark on baseball. baseball is based or -- baseball is a sport where statistics matter. everybody remembers who hit the most home runs, r.b.i.'s. statistics are any more missed part of the game -- an enormous part of the game. steroids should be disregarded, certainly for those who have admitted that they have taken steroids. you have to be suspicious of a lot of the statistics that have been compiled during that era. i think it really hurt the game a lot. tim makes an interesting point about the types of cheating that are accepted in baseball. certainly, pretending to be hit i a pitch is one of them. or tending to catch a ball that was trapped is another one. that just seems to be accepted. it is interesting, why baseball's approach to those things is different from other sports.

of course, there are aristocratic sports like golf and tennis, if you did anything comparable to that, it would be a scandal. but even in stocker -- in soccer, you get a penalty for -- in in and in-hockey ice hockey you get a penalty for diving. i guess the only explanation for that is, if the canadian sport. [laughter] -- it is a canadian sport. [laughter] >> christine? >> i would repost you that we are still in the steroid area. having is, sorry. -- i would propose to you that we are still in the steroid area. happy news, sorry. as a journalist, you are presented the news as it unfolds in front of you and you go with it. we are in the steroid era of sports. 100 years from now, when students are studying holograms or ridding the wallpaper, or whatever they are doing to study history, it will be known, this

time, as the steroid era. and that includes performance-enhancing drugs, what have you. the olympics started drug testing in 1972. and the olympics, of course, still have a performance enhancing drug problem. asy still catch cheaters, the lance armstrong solder a couple of years ago was unpleasant for everybody, certainly the cancer community and the rest of us. it was a sport strategy on many levels. it is also good that we caught him and he was brought to justice. if you think about it, the limbic started -- the olympics started that in 1972 and there are still cheaters in the elliptic. baseball started in 1984 was up -- started in 2004. baseball is 30 years behind the old games. if we look at the olympics as our guide -- and i'm sorry for

throwing cold water on the conversation, but if we look at the olympics as our guide, we know that at times are ahead. -- bad times are ahead. the bad chemist will try to stay ahead of the good chemist. i do think there will be designer drugs and new ways to do things and new ways to deal with genes. and when there is so much money out there, and there is way more money in baseball than the olympics, michael phelps would just be an average employee in the baseball locker room with his salary. inre is so much money baseball. my sense is that they are looking for new ways to do this. i hope i'm wrong, but i think felix shows us we have some years to go here -- the olympics shows us we have some years to go here. >> david? >> i'm just thinking about the difference between scuffing and steroids. i think the reason we are not scuffing -- bothered by scuffing

is that it is somewhat mitigated by cleverness. that is part of it. i think justice alito makes a decision -- the distinction that in golf, you don't cheat. is a democratic game, baseball. it doesn't have some of the affectations of the upper-class ast and finally, it's just game. and for all we love it, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. it matters in our hearts, but not in the war and peace terms for the i totally admire the staffers. -- not in war and peace terms. i totally admire the ball scoffers. .- scuffers in some ways, the showboating part of the game has offended me more than the scuffing. googling ryan sandberg and hall of fame speech, the speech he

gave at the hall of fame several years ago now was among the best hall of fame speeches ever given. he talked about how to play the game -- how he tried to play the game in order to live up to the standards of those who came before and was not about showboating. it was a beautiful moral speech about how to behave with the craft. >> next topic, instant replay. george will once said, "sport should be the triumph of character, openly tested, not of technology here cap -- of technology." what is your reaction to instant replay? >>. to. i was on the committee that came up with instant replay. although the heavy lifting was the committee.

i was slow to learn and resistant to all change, until joe torre said, you go to a ballpark and there are 40,000 people there. the people in this week have television and they see the replay. the people getting a hot dog in the concourse have televisions and they see the replay. too poor toone is have a device in their hands and to the replay. with 40,000 people in the ballpark and four people want to know what happened. they are called umpires. [laughter] they have to learn how to spell bluetooth. so people don't have to walk over and put on headphones. that is so 20th century. it will get a little quicker. and it will be tweaked and refined. the other day, the pirates won a game on a walkoff replay call. in the curmudgeons said, it was a walkoff committee meeting.

yes, but it was better than a walkoff mistake. i have come to like it. >> justice alito? a very goodt's idea. chief justice roberts famously said a few years ago that judges are like umpires. i think that is true. the umpires on the field are like the trial judges. and we know they get things wrong sometimes, so you have to have an appeal to the umpires in new york, who review the replay. the only thing that is wrong with the system is it only has two levels. [laughter] you need somebody to keep the umpires in new york in line. [laughter] >> anybody want to add to the subject of what has been discussed? ok, next question. the speed, or lack thereof, in baseball.

last week in the "wall street journal" there was a article that rattle off these facts. in 1954, ball was put in play every two minutes and 29 seconds and wages every three minutes 30 seconds. is 13 minutes014 longer than it was in 2010. baseball requires more patience from a society that has less of it. it might have something to do with the fact that between 20 -- 2009 and 2012, the number of children playing baseball in america between the ages of 7-17 fell by 18%. successor bud selig's as commissioner of baseball, do you do anything to address this issue of the games increasingly slower pace? word -- youight used the right word. it is the pace of the game, not the length of the game. people complain about the pace of the game to the sportswriters. the pace of the game matters, because tom or gucci has demonstrated that by now, only

81% of the pitches are put in play. the idea of going deep into the count where the starting pitcher will get into the middle relief, which is supposedly where mediocrity is in baseball, and then you win the game. the per -- the trouble with the middle relief now is he a 6'4" and 195 and you don't get anything from this. what we are doing, however is having six or seven pitching changes in the game, and they take time was up -- and they take time. the guy who was warming up in the bullpen comes in and warms up again with eight pitches on the mound, ostensibly because there might be a difference between the bullpen mound and the pitching mound and the field of play, when in fact in almost no ballpark is there a difference. if i could ban batting gloves -- [laughter] it is them believable. everybody has garcia parra disease. [laughter] watchedler noll on a go

-- not long ago watched kinescope of game 7, 1963 world series. -dodgers. he said, not once did either a out ofor a dodger step the batters balks once he got in. the culture of baseball has changed. -- varg talked about a bat thatd about was 10 minutes because the batter would step out and the pitcher would step off and the whole nature of baseball has changed, starting in the minor leagues. you tell them that their livelihood depends on a younger, more energetic, more impatient generation of americans wanting to see more energy on the field. >> and one way we can do that if we can have guys swing the bat a little more often, which is kind of what george is talking about. adam dunn, a few years ago, struck out looking 72 times in one season.

had williams never struck out 72 times in any season, swinging or looking. joe dimaggio struck out 39 times. that was his career high. adam dunn struck out looking 72 times. mike trout is the best player in and hee, hands down, went a one-year timeframe and struck out looking 53 times. i'm telling you, it's an epidemic in the game that we are also preoccupied with on-base percentage. hey, a walk is better than a hit. first off, a walk is never better than a hit. it is good. i love them. we have a generation of layered now who are saying, let's walk a hit. let's work a deep count was at let's get it to 2-2. we get to 2-2 and we have not even swung the bat yet. rink robbins told me years ago that he's never seen so many fastballs right down the middle of the plate that people do not swing at. what is going on? this was eight years ago. and it gets worse every single year to the point now where the

strike zone is as big as a license plate and the hitters are taking advantage of that and saying, well, i'm going to swing what i want to swing. if i strike out, fine. me, deepo always tells that that, if you strike out on a 3-2 count, that is not a good at-bad. if you struck out, you think. at-bat.is not a good if you struck out, you stinl. [laughter] >> yesterday at the white house we were talking about concussions. and a lot of parents are saying to their kids, especially boys, i do want you playing football. and of course, the concussion rate for ice hockey for boys and for women and girls soccer are also huge. we see potentially parents saying -- not tomorrow, but maybe in the next 10, 15, 20 years, you know, baseball.

obviously, there is a threat of injury and trouble for a child in any sport. every time you walk out of your house, there's a chance you could get hurt or injured or what have you. will we see parents want to start directing their kids back to baseball from football? i don't know what the future holds. but this concussion story is going to be fascinating to watch how that plays out over the next few decades. likewise, one of the things that i have actually talked to the is,issioner bud selig about you referred to have in the world series on in the afternoon and be able to watch on tv. how many of us had friends that would bring the transistor radio in to listen to the world series on an afternoon while we were in school. of course, no child today or for the last 20 years has been able to talk about that or say that, much less say what happened beyond what the third or fourth inning of any world series game is, because they have gone to bed. how many kids are we losing because they don't get a chance to watch it? and one last thought. that is obviously concerned.

one last thought, i'm actually glad that baseball is a little slower than other sports. and again, how many times i have taken kids to games and watch them enjoy it, watch them talk about it with their parents, maybe teach them how to keep score. use a pen and a piece of paper. it is a welcome relief from the computer and video games. i certainly hope the game doesn't start to try to attract those kids -- yes, video games are important, but just the joy of watching a game with a game with the child, there is still nothing better than that. [applause] with the needgree to speed up a little bit, but the mitigating factor is still the same and is well-known, which is that football is an action game and baseball is a drama game. a lot of the excitement of baseball is the excitement -- is the stuff that happens between the pages. and they do a good job of the cutaway shots to people and the tension of what is about to happen, like so much in life, is

more satisfying than what actually does happen. point -- that is a comment on my romantic life. [laughter] no, it's not. i don't know where that came from. i just realized i'm on c-span. fantastic. [laughter] i just want to say one thing about the youth a small -- baseball -- let's move on, folks. [laughter] that is, for the last 20 years, my baseball experience has been about 80% youth baseball analyst one percent professional baseball. -- and only 20% professional baseball. in my view, the reason youth baseball is dropping off is in part a cousin of the float as of the game, but also the falling off of coaching at the early levels -- is in part because of the slowness of the game, but also the falling off of the coaching at early levels.

tojustice alito, do you want weigh in on the pace of the game? >> i would like to see it sped up. -- thee between pitches pitchers bear part of the fall. the batters bear part of the fault for stepping out. and the television between innings. i think that is probably a factor in the problem that baseball has with young people. but i don't know whether -- i don't know how important it is. i will occasionally record a football game. in can watch an nfl game probably 15 minutes. i might be exaggerating. because the time when something is actually happening is very short and the rest of it is time between plays. acquired taste. it is not a sport that is appealing to people who don't have a background in baseball. somebody comes here from europe, for example, and you take them to a baseball game come and they don't know what is going on. it is not as interesting to them

as it is -- it is about as interesting to them as it would be for us if we went to a cricket match. but something is definitely happening. i will tell you this little story. my son and i went to a game last year and sitting behind us was a young man with a date. i could not help hearing what they were saying. he was definitely trying to impress her with how much he knew about baseball. she didn't know much about baseball because she wanted to know whether a ball was a fair ball or a foul ball if it started out in the air over fair tears tory and landed -- over fair territory and landed in foul territory, so she was not going to call him on anything he said. she said, what is the batting average? he said, that is the percentage of pitches that the batter hits with his bat. [laughter] and i thought, this is the biggest sign of cultural decay in the united states. [laughter]

. .

>> at the same time, detroit was a blaze. so many of our cities were dealing with the aftermath of the martin luther king assassination. to this day people in detroit and even people around michigan the great coach of michigan state mens basketball team. we remember hearing about the tigers and how they were unifying that city even the city defying unity. there were three african-american players who played major role for that team.

even as the community was erupting and the issues that were present in detroit, were same issues that were present in some many cities, you had the african-american population of detroit rallying around their tigers. because of those three african-american players. i think that's kind of a nice story. >> george, you got at story? >> i think democracy is served because -- because there's so much losing in a 162 game season. everything goes to -- they play the whole year to sort out the game. if you win 10 out of 20, your definition is mediocre.

it's a game in which -- just as democracy the system of a half loaf. no one gets everything they want. baseball is the sport of half loaf. >> speaking of losing, talmadge, i covered the 1988 orioles. no team come close to doing that. frank robinson the manager takes the writers out to eat after minneapolis lost. he said the president called me today. frank was a big kidder. finally he said look, the president of the united states called me today. i said frank what did he say. frank, i know what you're going through. frank said, mr. president, you got no idea what i'm going

through. >> baseball opened up a friendship or door for you? >> i never been out of harmony with other people. it cements friendship. we do this show on fridays. our segment is called shields and brooks. we want to call it brookshields. on the air we talk politics. off the air we just talk sports. we're never out of hormoneny. just to have that facility to talk sports, just constantly cementing joyful unselfish conscious way to spend time together. two things, civility requires

self-restraint. one of the great books of philosophy i've read is a book buy a guy called the mental of abc pitching. it's a book about how to control your mind. pitching is about controlling what you paying attention to. one of his recommendations for pitchers -- first of all, he's always for offense. just go after the hitter. do not waste a pitch. just go forward. very simple. if you're on the mound, you should have two things on your mind, pitch selection and location. if there's something else on your mind get off the mound. i recalling a conversation he said he had with greg maddux. he said to him, how did it go today. maddux said, 73 out of 87. what he meant by that was the ball left my fingers correctly

73 times out of 87 pitches. after your ball leaves your fingers, you have no control. it's about focusing on what you control and limiting your own thought process to what you can do. the final thing i'll say is, i'm always resistant to mix baseball with the rest of life. the rest of life is messy and unpleasant. to me basketball is a -- baseball is a hobby. during the bush years, i was invited to have lunch with the president. i drove down to southern virginia where my son was playing baseball. across the field, one of the players from the other team from a town from around pittsburgh, was jim leeland's son. he was sitting across, i remember thinking, i am so thrilled to see that guy. thrilled to see leeland.

the president, they come and go. >> justice alito. we'll let you close. anything in baseball helped you? >> mixing baseball with the rest of life. i think for fans what baseball does, is to channel natural aggression and trivial instincts which people have. david and i are sitting here with a phillies hat and a mets hat but we're very civil. i guarantee you, now that the price of a ticket has gotten higher and things have changed, but back in the not so old day, if i went to the stadium with a phillies hat and the phillies were winning or if david came to -- we were sitting in the cheap

seats and he was cheering for the met. in the vet, they had a lock up in the stadium. it channeled people's natural tendency to fight with each other into something that isn't really important as opposed to fighting about something that is. >> i want to turn the program over to george >> let me just quickly first thank c-span in my lifetime, 46 years in politics. no more significant thing happened than c-span. if you believe in a necessity of government and the process of government, c-span has just been so extraordinary in what they've done. we're grateful that c-span

decided to share this time with us today and will share it with the nation. i want to acknowledge the president. he's presence, the homeland security assistant. are you here allen? my appreciation tonight wonderful friend from texas talmadge boston. my very great appreciation mr. tim, mr. brooks, just alito, ms. brannan and mr. will. to all of you. let's do the appropriate things and thank this extraordinary panel. [applause] >> in a few moments, the administration announces its plan to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from power plants. hear a foundation discussion and

a recent supreme court decision striking down limits on campaign contributions. the role treasury department plays in national security. several live events to tell you about tomorrow morning. the center for international studies hosted a discussion on a talented national security. that's on c-span 3 at 9:00 eastern. also on c-span 3, at 10:00, a environment subcommittee holds a hearing on impact on climate change. here on c-span, in response to recent supreme court decision on campaign finance, the senate judiciary committee will consider a constitutional amendment that would allow congress and the states the authority to set limits on raising and spending money in political campaigns. you can see that at 10:00 to

a.m. eastern. >> we wanted a building that was accessible to the community. it needed to be able to incorporate a future that we didn't -- we can't predict the future. part of the problem the old library, we would tap out on as many computers and wiring we can fit into that structure. our new building needed to have a lot of flexibility and movement into the future. he combined different geometric features. we have a round auditorium. a rectangular structure.

then a crescent wall that hugs the library. all of these different geometric features are bridged together with sky lights. >> i think it is vitual for community to have a library that brings people together. in this particular space was geared in bringing the community together. it's an opportunity for people to remember that the things that hold the city together, the public safety officers, the mayor and his various departments and library all really work together. i like that we have physically done that with our architecture. >> this weekend, learn about the rich history and literary life of salt lake city, utah.

saturday on c-span 2 book tv and sunday at 5:00 p.m. or american history tv. >> under the headline, split is reporting that the epa proposed climate regulation quickly became campaign fodder. underscoring the perils for some democratic candidate. with photo there of senator --

>> it is great to be here. thanks everybody. bob thank you for accompanying me in and all the leadership you bring to this agency. i wanted to begin by telling you a little bit of a story about a month ago, i took a trip to the cleveland clinic.

i met a lot of really great people. but one person stood out even if he needed to have a stand in a chair to make himself seen while he was talking. he's ten years old. he struggled with severe asthma. his mom said that despite his challenges, he's a tough active kid and a really good hockey player. sometimes she said, the air is too dangerous for him to play outside. in the yates of america, no parent should ever have to have that worry. that's why epa exists. that's our job. we are directed by our laws and it is reaffirmed by the court that we are here to protect public health in the environment. today, climate change that

fueled by carbon pollution is super charging risks. not just to our health but to our communities, to our economy and to our way of life. that's what epa -- that is where epa is delivering oan vital piece of president obama's climate action plan. i want to thank janet mccabe who is our acting assistant administrator. and all of the entire team and teams across epa who worked so hard to deliver this proposal. they should be incredibled proud of their hard work. i know i am incredibly proud of it. but today, today pape -- epa is

proposing a clean power plant that will cut carbon pollution but using clean energy source. although we limit pollutants like mercury, sulfur, currently there are no limits on carbon pollution on power plants. for the sake of our family's health and for our kids future, we have a moral obligation to act on climate. when we do, we'll turn risks of climate into business opportunities. we'll spur innovation in investment and we'll build a world leading clean energy economy. the science is clear, the risks are clear and the high cost of climate and action keep piling up. rising temperatures bring more smog, more asthma, longer allergy seasons. if your kid doesn't use an

inhaler, you should consider yourself a lucky parent. one in ten kids in the u.s. suffers from asthma. power pollutions from power plants comes packed with dangerous pollutants. they put our children and our families at even more risk. climate inaction is costing us more money in more places more often. 2012 was the second most expensive year in u.s. history for natural disasters. even the larger sectors of our economy buckle under the pressures of a changing climate. when they give way so the businesses that support them and local economies that depend on them. as our seas rise so do insurane

and property taxes and food prices. if we do nothing, temperatures can rise ten degrees and seas can rise four feet. climate change will continue to affect credit risk worldwide. this is not just about disappearing polar bears, although i like polar bears, this is about protecting our health and it is protecting our homes. this is about protecting local economies and it's about protecting jobs. the time to act is now. that's why president obama laid out a climate action plan to cut carbon pollution. to build a more resilient nation and to lead the world in the global fight against climate. today's proposed clean power plan is a critical step forward.

before we put pen to paper, we ask for your advice. our plans were built on that advice from states, cities, businesses, utilities and thousands of people who provided us comment. i want to thank you for that comment. you will see that those comments made a difference. today is about kicking off what he see as a second phase of critical engagement. shaped by public input by present trends by technologies as well as a healthy dose of common sense, our plan aims to cut energy waste and leverage cleaner energy sources by doing two things. first, by setting achievable and enforceable state goals to cut carbon pollution per mega watt hour. second, it's laying out a

national framework that give states the flexibility to chart their own path on how they meet their goals. in 2030 when the states meet their final goals our proposal will result in 30% less carbon pollution from the power sector across the united states in comparison to 2005 level. just to put that in perspective, that's as if we are canceled ot the annual carbon pollution from two thirds of carbon trucks in america. if you add up what we actually avoid before 2030 even comes, it's more than double the carbon

pollution from every power plant in america in 2012. it double what every power plant in america generated in terms of plosion in -- pollution in 2012. in 2013 we'll cut pollution significantly that causes smog and soot by 25% or more than if we didn't have this rule in place. that's a great added bonus. all of that means it's going to result in lower medical bills, fewer trips to the emergency room, especially for those most vulnerable. those kids, especially those kids that have asthma. our elderly. this is also about environmental justice. because lower income families and communities of color are at

hit. let me get into the details of the proposal. this plan is all about flexibility. that's what makes it ambitious but also achievable. that's how we keep our energy affordable and reliable. the glue that holds this plan together and the key to making it work is that each state's goal is tailored to its own circumstances. states have the flexibility to reach their goal in whatever way works best for them. to craft state goals. we looked at where states are today and we formed and looked at where they are heading. teach state is different so each goal and each path can be different. the goal springs from smart and sensely opportunities that states and businesses are taking advantage of now. let me tell you about the kind of opportunities that i'm talking about. we know that coal and natural

gas they play a significant role today in a diverse energy mix. that this plan does not change that. it recognizes that there are opportunities to modernize aging plants to increase efficiency and to lower pollution. that part of an all of the above strategy. states also have the opportunity to shift their alliance to more efficient and less polluting plans. instead, low carbon sources. there's always the opportunity to shift to no carbon sources. like nuclear, like wind and solar. since 2009, wind energy in america has tripled. solar energy has grown ten-fold.

home grown clean energy is posting record revenues and creating jobs that cannot be shipped overseas. those are all opportunities. what about the plug? existing technologies can squeeze the most out of every electron. helping us use electricity more efficiently in our homes and businesses. more efficiency means that we need less electricity to cool our refrigerators or to charge our phones. for the fuel we burn, let's get the biggest bang for our buck. all of these options are not now ideas. in fact, they're based on proven technology, proven approaches and they're part of the ongoing story of energy progress in the united states of america. our plan doesn't prescribe, it propels already technologies that are available in the

progress that is under way. like i said, there is no one size fits all solution. states can pick from a portfolio of options to meet regional, state and community needs from one dimension in any combination they choose. it's up to states to mix and match to get their goals. if states don't want to go it alone, they can hang out with other states. we can do multistate market based programs. we're doing them today. or, they can be creative and make new ones. more players means more flexibility. when you look at the proposal, you'll see more flexibility means lower costs. state have flexibility not just in the means and the method but in the time line too.

under our proposal, states have to design plans now and they have to start reducing so they can on a trajectory to meet their final goals in 2030. that kind of flexibility means a smooth transition to a cleaner power that doesn't leave any investment opportunities behind. the flexibility of our clean power plant affords the choices that lead them to a healthier future. choices that levels the playing field and keep options on the table. doesn't take them off the table. choices that reflect where they are today and that look to seize the opportunities that are here for us tomorrow. choices that are focused on building up not on shutting down. so we can raise the common denominator for a cleaner, low carbon economy that will fuel growth for decades to come.

what's special about the flexibility of our plan? it doesn't just give states more options. it gives entrepreneurs and investors more options to play too. it will deliver the certainty that private investment is looking for that will unleash market forces, that will drive even deeper reductions through innovation and investment. it will spur cleaner technologies and power of all sorts. so that we can bring new low carbon technologies to the table. our plan will pull private investment off the shelves and into our clean energy revolution and send it in every direction not just the one or two that we

know about today. because the opportunities are endless. the good news is, state, cities and businesses, already blazed this trail. we are not doing cutting edge work here folks. we are just opening up the door for cutting edge to happen. our clean energy revolution has been unfolding in front of us. just in the past few weeks, i went to salt lake city with a mayor and the utilities are teaming up on building efficiency. i went to st. paul where there was a science center that is recycling energy waste, saving money and it's actually teaching kids what we adults are just beginning to learn. i've seen fortune 500 companies revamp strategies by meeting the demands of a carbon constrained future. i want to give a shot out to all of the local officials, all of

the rural co-ops, all of the public power operators and investor owned utilities that have been leading the charge on climate change. you know who you are. i thank you. it's clear that you act not just because it's reasonable but because it's the right thing to do for the people that you serve. governors and mayors of all stripes are leaning into climate action. they see it not as a partisan obstacle but as a powerful opportunity. we know that successful breads success. those of us who works in states and local governments have seen healthy competition. push states to share ideas and expertise. that is how everybody ends up winning. epa has had a long standing partnership with states to protect public health. we set goals and states are

always in the driver seat to meet them. so releasing the clean power plan actually shifts much of the conversation to the states. if you're a teacher, a scientists, a mechanic, a business person, or just someone who has a good idea, share your thoughts with your state leaders. help them see that they can build a plan that will better all of our futures. i know people are wondering, can we cut pollution while keeping our energy affordable and reliable? sure we can. we can and we will. critics claim that your energy bills will skyrocket. well, they're wrong. any small short term change in electricity prices would be with

a normal fluctuations, the power sector has already dealt with for years. any small price increase that we see is about the price of a gallon of milk a month. it's dwarfed by the huge benefit. this is an investment in better health and in a better future for our kids. just like these kids here. are they girl scouts? just hanging out? in 2030, the clean power plan will deliver climate and health benefits of up to $90 billion. for soot and smog reduction alone, that means that for every dollar we invest in this plan, families will see seven dollars in direct health benefit. if states are smart about taking advantage of efficiency opportunities and i know they are, when the effects of this

plan are in place in 2030, average electricity bills will be 8% cheaper. that is how you write a rule. this plan is a down payment we know to be a more 21st century power system. it will cut energy waste, cut pollution and cut cost. think about it like this, we set historic efficiency standards that will double the distance cars go on a gallon of gas. many of you were engaged in that wonderful rule making with d.o.t. that meant you fill up less often and you saved more money.

in the auto industry, that's what it will do for you in the power sector. given the astronomical price that we pay, the thing we can do is nothing. the most costly thing that we can do is to do nothing. the critics are wrong about reliability too. for decades, power plants have met pollution limits without risking reliability. if anything we're threatening reliability and causing blackouts is the devastating extreme weather that we're going to see that is fueled by climate change. i'm a little tired of people pointing to the wall of vortex as the reason not to act on climate. it's exactly the opposite. it is a wake up call. climate change heightens risk from stream coal that freezes our power grids.

super storms that drown our power plants and heat waves that strip our power supply. it turns out efficiency upgrades that slow climate change actually helped cities insulate themselves against blackouts. that's how it works. we know it, they know it. despite all that, i will still for sure see special interest skeptics who are cry that the sky is falling, who will deliberating over estimate the cost and deliberating undervalue the benefits. the facts are clear. for other four decades, epa has cut air pollution by 70% and the economy has now more than tripled. all the while providing the power we need to keep america strong.

climate action doesn't actually dull america's competitive edge it sharpens it. it spurs ingenuity in innovation and investment. in 2011 we exploited more than 30% more cars than we did in 2009. that is the clear sign of a competitive industry. our fuel efficiency standards helped to make that happen. companies like best buy are investing in low carbon operations. bank of america pays its employees to cut carbon pollution because investors see climate risk as business opportunities. this is good news. any business will tell you, eliminating waste, means more money for other things. like hiring employees, corporate climate action is not bells and whistles.

its an all hands on deck call. even without national standards, the energy sector sees the handwriting on the wall. businesses like spectra energy are investing billions of dollars in clean energy. all of this means more jobs, not less. we'll need thousands of american workers in construction, transmission and more to make cleaner power a reality. you've heard me say this before but it is worth reiterating again. the bottom line is, we have never have to choose between a healthy economy and a healthy environment.

there's a reason why empty allegations from critics sounda little bit like a broken record. it's because it's the same tired play. from the same special interest play brook that they've been using for decades. in the 1960's, you remember the 1960's, some of you do when smog choked our cities, critics cried wolf said epa action to put the brakes on the auto production. they were wrong. instead our air got cleaner and our kids got healthier and we sold more cars. thank you to the folks at epa. in the 1990's, critics cried wolf and said fighting acid rain will make electricity go up and our light go out. they said industry would, i i quote, die a quiet death. they were wrong again.

industry is alive and well. our lights are still on and we have dramatically reduced acid rain. so time after time when science pointed to health risk, special interests cried wolf to protect their own agenda. not the agenda of the american people. time after time, we followed the science, we protected the american people and the doomsday prediction never came true. now climate change is calling our number. right on to the same critics, once again scare tactic it -- tactics and to meet our moral obligation as stewards of our natural resources. their claims that scientific actions that protect families will somehow flies in the face of history in shows and decided

lack of faith in american ingenuity and entrepreneurship. i don't accept that premise. the president of the united states doesn't accept that premise. we should not accept that premise. we can lead this fight. we can north our way -- north our -- north -- innovate our a better future. that's what america does best. yes, our climate crisis is a global problem and it demands a global solution. there is no hail mary play we can call on to reverse its effects. we can act today to advance the ball. we can limit the dangers of punting this problem to our own children. it's no accident that our

proposal is a key piece of president obama's climate action plan and key to america's leadership in this global climate fight. although there's still more work to be done, i am hopeful. i'm hopeful when i see the progress that was made. i'm hopeful because i see the patent of perseverance that defines america. from the light bulb from excels to your cell phones, america has always turned small step into giant leaps. we've cured diseases. we have explored the stars. because when critics say it can't be done, we say, you watch us. that's what america is made of. we don't settle. we lead. that's how we'll confront this climate crisis. when it comes to our plan, we

may not agree on the details of how we do it but i sure do hope we can all agree on why we do it. when our kids ask us, if we did everything we could to leave them a safer and cleaner world. we all want to say yes we did. when we think of our children, it's easy to see why we have to be compelled to act. as governors, mayors and ceo's, school teacher, nurses, factory workers and most of all as parents and in mom who are here, we have a moral obligation to ensure that the world we leave behind is safe, healthy and vibrant. just like the one we inherited. our clean power plan is a huge

step towards delivering on that promise. thank you very much. i have some signing to do. this is the opening of our second round of engagement. i'm looking forward to it. whoever said the -- the sword is mightier than the pen. thank you very much.

[applause] done. >> after the announcement of the proposed clean air rules the

chairman of the house energy and commerce committee represented fred upton of michigan, despite presidents focus on income equality, this is a plan to make the poor, poorer. the leading democrat on the energy committee, representative henry waxman of california, the proposal is a major step forward. to protect public health and slow global warming. on facebook, we're asking should the epa cut carbon emissions? those responding included victoria who said, this is so wrong and it will iran the economy. rachael wrote, you don't have an economy if you kill the planet. among those who responded to the administration's proposal was republican senator john barrasso of wyoming, a member of the today the obama administration

released its new plan intended to shut down american power plants. instead of celebrating his policies in the rose ga garden, president obama relegated the bad news to the environmental protection agency. make no mistake about it, what they are announcing today is another step in the president's plan to make electricity rates -- quote -- "necessarily skyrocket." unquote. remember, mr. president, that's what the president promised americans when he was running for president the first time, 2008. now, of course, when he was elected, congress said no. no to his radical plan. even when the democrats controlled the house of representatives, nancy pelosi was speaker of the house, the democrats had 60 members of the senate, even with a complete democratic domination in both houses of congress, congress still said, no, mr. president,

this is a bad idea. so the president decided that he knew better than the american people, the elected representatives, he decided to go around congress and go around the american people. so i turned to the front page of today's "wyoming front page eagle hrert, cheyenne wyoming," and the headline is obama lets the administration do his dirty work. the subheadlines, the president's charge to limit emissions has caused so much criticism that he is no longer leading the pack. they go on to say on the front page of the wyoming tribune eagle when the obama administration unveils its program to curb power plant emissions, this cornerstone of the president's climate change policy, the most significant environmental regulation of his term, will not be declared in a sunbathed rose garden news conference or even from behind

the lectern in a major speech. they go on to say it will not be announced by the president at all, but instead by his head of the e.p.a., the environmental protection agency, while president obama adds his comments in an off-camera conference call. talk about something that's unpopular with the american people, it's this. about a year ago the president put out rules limiting carbon dioxide emission s from new power plants, power plants that were being constructed. but today, today his environmental protection agency is applying tight new limits on the emissions of existing power plants, power plants that are already there producing energy. the administration said it's going to allow states, they describe flexibility in how they meet the new limits. well, i believe that any of the

flexibility that's being offered is just an illusion. states will have a severely limited number of options for what they can do to meet the standards. every one of those options are going to raise the cost of energy for american families. that means consumers won't even get the illusion of flexibility. they'll get higher energy costs. now, businesses are going to have to find ways to pay for their own higher bills because it's not just going to be families when they turn on the light switch that are going to get a higher electric bill. as the president said electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket. but businesses are going to have to find ways to pay for their higher energy costs, which will mean higher and fewer people laying people off passing on the cost to others. that is why the u.s. chamber of commerce says that an aggressive policy targeting coal-fired power plants will lead to higher, less disposable incomes for families.

and thousands of jobs lost. so, families will have less disposable income, thousands of jobs lost. we just learned last week our economy shrank by 1% in the last quarter. the united states economy shrank. this is the first time in years the economy actually shrank by 1% in the last quarter. the first time it happened since 2011. our labor force participation rate was at the same level it was when jimmy carter was president of the united states. now the obama administration wants to put more americans out of work. the action that they are taking today is the height of irresponsibility and, really, mr. president, it tone-deaf leadership. the obama administration is going to try to defend their extreme regulations by saying once again that these changes will help save lives and keep families healthy. the fact is that they're totally

ignoring the undeniable fact that when americans lose their jobs, their health and health of their children suffers. there's an enormous public health threat from high unemployment, specifically chronic high unemployment. it increases the likelihood of hospital visits, illness and premature death. it hurts children's health and the well-being of families. it influences mental illness, suicide, alcohol abuse, spouse abuse. it's an important risk factor in stroke and high blood pressure and heart disease. major things that impact a family, raise the cost of care. i saw it in my days of medical training and medical practice. and the white house knows it too. you say how does the white house know? "the new york times" actually ran an article on this in november of 2011. november 17, to be exact. the headline of the article was "policy and politics collide as obama enters campaign mode."

"policy and politics collide as obama enters campaign mode." the article says a meeting occurred in the white house between the american lung association and white house chief of staff william daley. and the meeting was about the environmental protection agency's proposed ozone regulations. in that white house meeting, white house chief of staff daley asked a simple question when confronted with the argument that additional clean air act regulations would improve public health. daley asks what are the health impacts of unemployment? i have just gone over them with you, mr. president. those are the health impacts of unemployment. so the white house knows about it, totally aware about it. so when the environmental protection agency announced these new rules today, the president himself was reportedly talking off camera, conference call, on the phone with the american lung association.

someone in that room should be talking about the disastrous public health effects of the unemployment that these rules are causing. the fact is that more regulation from washington is not what america needs right now. states already have flexibility in how they approach environmental stewardship, and many of them have come up with creative solutions. last month the senate and congressional western caucuses issued a report called "washington gets it wrong: states get it right." the report showed how regulations imposed by washington are undermined -- undermining the work being done at the state level to manage our lands, to manage our natural resources, and to protect our air and our water. it gave success stories, discuss stories where the work being done -- success stories where the work being done by states is more reasonable, more effective and it's less heavy-handed than

the rules ordered by washington. america doesn't need washington to pay lip service to flexibility while mandating huge price increases in energy. america wants washington to stop the overreaching regulations and the mandates and actually allow the states to get it right. thousands of americans who already lost their jobs because of washington's expensive and excessive regulations. now the president is putting more jobs on the chopping block. that's why i've written legislation that would stop president obama's massive increase in the nation's electric bill. i offered this as an amendment last fall. democrats in the senate blocked it. i plan to offer it again, and to keep making the point that the president should not have the power and authority to impose these burdens on the american economy and on american families. my amendment blocks the issuance of new carbon standards for new

and existing power plants. it would actually require the approval of congress -- imagine that -- the approval of congress, the elected representatives of the people, require the approval of congress for regulations that increase america's energy bills like these new rules proposed by the obama administration today. congress should act on an affordable energy plan. but these kinds of decisions should for congress to make, not for the president to make on his own. it's true whether the president is a democrat or a republican. mr. president, we all know we need to make america's energy as clean as we can as fast as we can. it's critically important, though, that we do this without hurting our economy, a struggling economy, an economy where people continue to sacrifice, and do this in ways that don't cost hundreds of thousands of middle-class families their jobs.

we should look to the states that have come up with ways to balance our energy needs, the health of our economy, and our environment. president obama is taking the wrong approach. these new regulations are going to hurt our economy. it's an economy that's already shrinking. it's astonishing, our economy is shrinking, and it's because of the president's other failed policies. the policies introduced today will hurt middle-class families who are struggling to find work or to keep the jobs that they have now. they will harm the health of many americans. the president needs to change course. and if he won't do it on his own, congress must do it for him. so today once again, mr. president, we see the headline "obama lets e.p.a. do his dirty work: the president's charge to limit emissions has caused him so much criticism that he is no longer leading the

pack." instead he's hiding. the president today is hiding. if this is something the president was proud of, he should have been at the white house in the rose garden in front of the cameras making an announcement, not asking his e.p.a. administrator to make it so he could be on a conference call because he was ashamed to show his face to the american people because of the impact these regulations are going to have on families all across america. america. >> for over 35 years c-span bring public affairs event from washington directly to you. putting you in the room of congressional hearings, briefings and conferences and offering them complete gavel to gavel coverage of the u.s. house all at the public service of private industry. we're c-span created by the cable tv industry.

watch us in hd, like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. >> a look at how recent supreme court decision striking down limits on campaign contribution may affect first amendment free speech right. the role the treasury department plays on national security. then a discussion on baseball and american life. including comments from supreme court justice samuel alito. ....