al qaeda and other jihadist groups are growing, not shrinking. as always, we will take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next. ♪ white house officials will brief officials next week about the prisoner exchange. also chuck hagel will appear before the house armed services committee. you can see that live on c-span three. go to our website or more information. the cia is now on twitter and facebook. good morning, it is june 7. with the release of yesterday cost job report that of yesterday's jobs report came reports that 9 million jobs that were lost in the recession have

now been replaced. perhaps you were directly affected by the recession and want to relay your experience. here is how you can do so. if you live in the eastern or central time zone you can also weigh in on our social media channels as well. address.s our twitter you can send us an e-mail too at journal@c-span.org. the numbers came out from the labor department yesterday. 217,000 jobs added in may. the unemployment rate staying the same at 6.3%. this related to a story we saw yesterday about the jobs report, but it also talks about those jobs lost in the recession,

saying -- perhaps you were one of those folks that lived through the recent recession. a.b. it changed your life somewhat. if you want to relive those experiences and how the recession impacted to you -- impact you -- as you are calling in we will get a look at these numbers. the senior business editor for npr joins us. specifics about the numbers. one of the things i read is that the suggest a goldilocks approach when it comes to battling the numbers of the economy. if the economy were

growing way too quickly, if you are unemployed that may sound great in the short term. over the long term that may prompt the federal reserve to raise interest rates more quickly. that would slow the economy down a little bit so inflation doesn't take hold pretty you --'t want a wage and price take hold. you don't want a wage and price spiral taking place. that is really where we are right now. a pretty good report in that we have had four straight months where jobs have increased more than -- increased by more than 200,000 in a month. having a four-month stretch like that for every month job growth is very solid, not too strong but a good, that hasn't happened since late 1999.

that is a pretty long stretch where we haven't seen that kind of growth so most economists thought this was a good report. host: to we see the ripple effects of that? jobs are the keys to the whole economy. if you are adding at a regular pace like this that is steady and reliable people can make plans for a life again. you really can't go out and buy a car or buy a home or anything if you don't have the ability to prove you have a steady paycheck. that right now, especially in the car dealerships here in washington. be lots ofere will to look atg out cars. very cold january and

february so there was some delayed buying there. now people are back in that market. cars are flying off the lots. that helps to ensure that we are -- it seems crazy to think of it this way. this makes it seem like we haven't lost momentum, we are rolling along pretty well for you that is all good. we always see the unemployment figure when it comes to categories, with at 8.6%, leisure and hospitality at 8.1%. you probably study these categories more than anyone else. tell us what is important to know about the specific jobs and what it means. month of may the

thing that was encouraging about this report is that the job growth was very dispersed. it was across a wide spectrum of jobs. we did see gains in manufacturing and construction. but also leisure and hospitality. it looks good for the summer tourism season. where the job losses were concentrated, it is a tough time to be a postal worker. a lot of federal jobs got cut. about 5000 federal jobs were lost and about half of those were with the postal service. there are some spots where there is trouble there. in the industry is changing and shifting. for the most part across the board this was a solid report. having said a bunch of good things about what is going on over the last four months, it is

important to step back and take a look at the big picture. have 9.8 million people who are unemployed. the unemployment rate is 6.3. that is not a great rate. we need to get the unemployment rate down to five percent over time. keep having these kinds of strong hiring sprees over periods of many many months to get back all the jobs we lost. we are at pre-recession levels of paychecks. a more and more people come out -- people are being born in this country at a faster rate than we are dying off. we are still missing about 7 million jobs.

we need to keep adding these jobs to absorb the 9.8 million people who don't have jobs and one third of those are long-term unemployed. they have been looking and looking for more than six months. is still a lot of healing that has to be done out there to get the economy back on its feet. these are the kinds of numbers you want to see to make sure you are heading in the right direction. host: she highlights what you talked about, the number of jobs that were brought back. then she asked what is happening with wages. hourlylast month at the wage was up about a nickel. overall wages are 2.1% higher this year than they were last year. likedoesn't exactly sound we are all running out to celebrate. don't like that cigar with a $100 bill just yet. it is better than inflation. it means the buying power is picking up.

it is still far below what they should be. wages have been depressed and that is a function of a lot of things but especially that there were just too many people looking for jobs. employers to need to ring these vested need to run these wages. now that the economy is tightening, you are seeing almost to labor markets. peoples the one where are low skilled and those wages are still really depressed and there's way too much slack in the wager -- in the labor department. jobshe really skilled there is a tremendous amount of competition and wages have been shooting way out. that havesome studies been out that show that if you have a degree in petroleum engineering, 22-year-olds just , theyting with a degree are getting salaries that are averaging more than $95,000 per year.

ask around, see if there are any petroleum engineers. that is somebody who can take you out to a nice dinner. there is a very uneven job market and wages are quite uneven depending on your skills. one can only hope it will start to drive up their wages a little bit. it. thank you for your time. he be were one of the folks that -- maybe you are one of the folks i got caught up in the recession. regionally.he lines

let's start off with charles outside of washington dc in alexandria, virginia. how are you? caller: i'm fine. i am starting a new job on wednesday. it is a telecommunications project with the national weather service. i have spent the last 10 years in iraq and afghanistan. i am a civilian contractor on different military projects. as the military work has been winding down consequently the civilian contract support work has been winding down as well. it is not impossible to locate a

slot in afghanistan but it is very difficult. open in thee measure d area so i jumped on it. host: did your life changed at all as far as your consistency of work or lifestyle changes? caller: as long as there was military action in iraq and afghanistan i was always able to find work very quickly. down, down, down with the number of work and the combat zone. so this job popped up. ring the last 10 years i worked almost constantly a broad. be interesting to get back on the beltway crawler again and go to work without a flak vest. for: joe is up next georgia. company. have a i got shook with this recession.

i didn't even sleep last night. hard to elect a governor. a we have to -- we have to elect more conservatives. the recession has energized me to work harder to elect a more conservatives like ted cruz. "takeover," you are going to hear a lot about it. be the numberl one best-selling book of all time for conservatives. this recession has made me more to term and to work hard and elect people like out here in georgia. i am energized to work harder. host: can off of facebook says -- -- can off of facebook says -- of facebook says --

again, for our first 45 minutes, you may be one of those people. facebook is available to you, twitter as well. ournal@c-span.org is e-mail. you can give us a call on the line. terry,ear from hagerstown, maryland. caller: i have done well during this obama recession thanks to economic policy for the past three years. i have been getting a lot of overtime. i work for one of the major mortgage servicers. and because of the massive increase in foreclosures, bankruptcies, short sales, our

department has more work than it can handle. i have done very well. i was able to purchase a brand-new car and last august i already have a third of the principal paid down. i am reading correspondence from people coming in, they can't find work. they are working multiple part-time jobs. they lost their health care coverage and got hit with a lot of medical bills. while i'm hoping this insanity of liberalism is put to a rest in this upcoming midterm 2016, thank you, mr. obama. your gross incompetence has done very well for me. host: this is john from pennsylvania. how the recession impacted my life is that i try to sell my house with a realtor. inost 125 thousand dollars equity. i can't even break even with my house right now.

i can't even get the down payment i put in, the $50,000 are put down on the house. because iy frustrated want to get out this house and the housing value in my area is going completely down. i won't be able to recoup anything. host: do you have people even considering it? caller: there are some new houses, brand-new construction, for $259,000. my house for 340 thousand dollars and can't even make a profit on the. the schemes that they play back then, the housing market -- divided the lines regionally. our next caller is from maine. caller: good morning. and the recession had impacted our family very severely.

the company i worked for, which manufactures luxury goods, came very close to folding. a good three or four years for the market was very tough. down, we lost most of our employees through layoffs. has been the last two years the company has had a substantial turnaround. we are about as busy as we have ever been. host: what do you attribute that to? caller: i think the economy has been growing steady for quite some time. for those that could of four luxury -- those that could afford luxury goods -- business is great for us.

host: how much do these cost? some that go as high as $5 million. host: steve is up next from georgia. good morning. i did fairly well. i paid off my mortgage right before the recession began, so i own my home clean -- my home free and clear. i am a job at the time, currently retired. i have no complaints. " and your lifestyle did not change during that time. host: and your lifestyle did not change during that time area bank -- time period? think the obama administration did a wonderful

job in protecting our country economically in the broad sense. host: jobs being replaced. about 9 million of them now replace. we are getting your thoughts on how that time affected you. 217,000 jobs added as well. the phone lines -- one of the people talking about the jobs numbers as today, it is the chairman of the economic advisory committee. hugh offered the aba's take on

the numbers. here is his thoughts. [video clip] picked one were to describe the mood in the room yesterday as we discussed our forecast and form the consensus view it would be optimism. we are optimistic that we will see solid growth going forward through the rest of this year and into next year. in the first quarter gdp growth fell one percent. of that was in part the weather. there was a global slowdown in activity during the first quarter that looks an awful lot like fairly violent inventory correction. bad news was confirmed this morning by the may and employment report -- may implement report.

-- may employment report. it is confirmation of our sense that we will not only have a decent balance of activity, we expect gdp growth will reach almost four percent in the second quarter of this year. and then we will settle into something like three percent growth going forward. host: a couple of tweets -- dorothy is up next from louisiana. caller: hi. i'm glad to hear things are going better.

old and i went having papers to buy food. i worked a swing shift at an airplane factory and all that. why this story is special is wet in the 80's or 90's moved to tulsa from denver and my friend called me, she had a friend and this man had been in the cow -- in doc how in poland wheredacau in poland the prisoners died. the general that was in charge released allt he p -- all the prisoners. they found huge amounts of

beautiful paintings and art fromazis had stolen people. he had previously been a conservator of art. host: bernard from philadelphia, pennsylvania. you are on. go ahead. caller: i am looking for a job right now. i'm going to start new job pretty soon. you're looking for a job but you ready to start a job? what is the work in? rj is up next from north carolina. my wife and i have both fared well in the recession. i keep calling -- i keep hearing

these collars blaming president .bama they forget it is the republicans who gave us the recession. the republicans fought tooth and nail to keep obama from recovering during the recession. it is bad policy all the way around. how did the recession specifically affect you? affected me somewhat but nothing devastating like it has other people. host: how so? our house, that is bought and paid for. our vehicles are bought and paid for. -- our college funds for our kids had to be put to other things but we managed to get through. franklin. is rj from you may have seen this already but the cia is joining twitter and facebook.

from "the financial times closed quote this morning -- -- "the financial times" this morning -- indy from new jersey, you are next. caller: good morning. , i am as the recession very fortunate that i am still working. i work in the health-care industry and it seems like the hospital situation -- there is not much hiring. is not sure if this nationwide but there are actually layoffs occurring in the hospitals. i am from the new york metro

area. hospitals are closing. staff that is remaining are doing two jobs. people are doubling up on work. of that goes to nursing, radiology employees. name it,partment and people are wearing two hats instead of one. payouts are now less to medicare and medicaid. we turning less payments. they're trying to make staff take on two positions, performing two jobs, instead of hiring that extra person. this affordable care act is actually burn out -- actually burning out hospital staff. they continue to do more work than is humanly possible. it is really not good for the health care industry.

even able to not find a job and health care. health care employees are working into their late 60's. the affordable care act is not really helping me. it has impacted my life because now i am forced to work twice as hard for the same salary. thank you, mr. obama. of host: as part of the day celebrations in france, world leaders gathering for that and russian president vladimir putin becoming a central figure in stories relating to that, such as in "the new york times" this morning --

this shows that you six second first street it shows president assad hooting and obama at least -- shows president putin and obama at least talking. chris from buffalo, new york. we are talking about how the recession impacted folks who are

calling in. how did it impact you? caller: i have been the lucky one. old, neverrs collected a check of unemployment in my life. basically two jobs my whole life, working in the restaurant business and for one of the largest printers in the 431 years. i also did building maintenance for seven of those years. have a wide range of experience in different fields you are always going to find work. presently i am unemployed and i am calling for another job tomorrow. i have been unemployed for only two weeks. there are jobs out there if you are willing to work. that is about it.

host: are the jobs you are looking for making the kinds of wages you have earned in the past? are they lower or higher? caller: i am making more money in restaurant work than i used to make. it is comparable to factory work created -- to factory work. i work for one of the world's largest printers at one time. down union and they moved south and got rid of our union. it put an end to the printing business in buffalo. thank god there is the cooking because i am a professional seafood chef. it i just got -- i just got a job today that i should be starting next week. host: a story about an american being held by north korea.

this says -- tony is in iowa city, iowa. been tough i have been working since 2005 but then it has been kind of spotty. the economy isn't great but there are still jobs here. there is a lot of competition. i went back to driving cabs our

time. i want to comment what somebody said earlier about the recession, it is a 9/11 recession. andhould understand that tried to prepare for it so i am going to try to relocate and find work somewhere else. states are you looking at relocating to? texas, it looks like there are a lot of jobs there. i'm too old to join the military. i wonder how many people fall into that? i don't want to see all these kids huffing over these hills without somebody to back them up. host: that is tony in iowa city, iowa. the green they press gazette has a story this -- green bay press gazette has a story this morning.

marie from reno, nevada, good morning. the recession impacted me in a couple of ways. i am in my early 20's and i cannot find a job. they asked me if i have experience. i don't have any experience, i am just getting out in the work field. i can't find a mediocre job for nothing. the first thing they tell me is i need experience forward.

i am running around in circles unable to find a job. what is going to happen? host: what kind of jobs are you looking for and what is your educational background? a high school diploma. i am looking to do physical labor like stocking, anything to get my life started and my foot in the door. jobsoblem is for mediocre i have to have some type of experience. it is the same excuse i keep getting over and over again. host: will you continue education as a part of that, is that part of your plan? caller: it is a 50-50 shot. either you need experience or it is too expensive. don't need 40,000 in debt. to a certain point i am running in circles. , --: if you're joining yes joining us, how did the

recession impact you? reports about those 9 million jobs that were lost during the recession has been replaced. input.getting your people are sharing their thoughts on the phones and on our social media. has atroit free press story taking a look at what is going on with gm. they writes --

victor, good morning, silver spring, maryland. call, i am in my 60's. i recently retired and already the recession is hurting me and ie i like my meat went to get some hamburger the other day, it was over $7.50 per pound. i turn on my radio and i am listening to mark levin and the guy substituting for him last night said there was in a confrontation between cattle ranchers and the government. mexicome it is in new and the government wants to shut areathat particular because of a field mouse. because of that my price of meat is going up.

this guy was saying there will be a war out west between the --ironment oh black coats environment tell -- environmental wackos. in "theere is a story new york times" this morning taking a look at the state department's decision process when it comes to the keystone xl --ps -- keystone x low keystone xl pipeline. the study noted --

carol davenport goes on to say -- jonathan from georgia. hello there. caller: i am 50 years old. i was always taught growing up that if you work hard you get the rewards. my wife and i worked really hard, we established a business. we were fortunate enough to sell it in our mid-30's. we acquired a bunch of rental property. now most of our rental property sits empty because businesses -- they come in, they close.

now we went from working our tails off to back to work to to try to- to just hang on to what we built when we were younger. old guy now. jobve been able to find a but the unfortunate thing is we are back to check the check, it even though -- the check, even though we have all these properties. what makes it harder is the fact that the local government is coming up with new ways to tax us on these properties. the percentage that we are throwing at these properties is going up every year. that is just a real head scratcher for us. host: how much money do you have tied up in your properties?

have about $600,000. every year we have to pay $14,000 just in property tax. then we have to pay our liability insurance, we have to pay -- everything we do we have to keep paying out, paying out. we tried to subdivide the none of them seem to be hanging on. there's less and less money to go around for everybody. stateformer secretary of hillary clinton's book comes out on tuesday. , from "the new york times," writes --

jack from lakewood, ohio. the recession has only reiterated what many americans see going on in our country today. there is no integrity. we are putting people in office that have the money to get into office but don't have the integrity to be in office. is iay it has affected me was told it was time to retire and get out of the workforce. i have been a productive member for close to 50 years.

host: was it private industry or public? caller: private industry. retired. why would i want to be my head against the wall? the big issue people are missing is the election coming up. this election is going to be the turning point for this country. had -- when we have this election later this year, if republicans take over the senate and they have the house and senate you know what is going to happen. impeach going to try to this president and that is when our country would totally fall apart. there are commenters like myself. -- commoners like

myself. watch what happens in this next election. most comments here from jim in new jersey. hello. hear from jim in new jersey. hello. these calls of paint a rosy picture but it is very rocky out there. i have been out of work since august of last year. retail has been decimated. storesre closings of that were planning to be open. it is very hard out there. i see what congress is doing with the unemployment extension and they are playing with people's lives. i just had this five-month extension bill die in the house.

what they were doing was hanged this caret over long-term unemployment. -- was hanged this caret over long-term unemployment. carrot over long-term unemployment. you have an entire segment of the population that is not even being counted. this rosy picture when unemployment rate stays the same two months in a row, that is not a good thing. host: what kind of work did you do? all, i was mid-level, call, ivel region -- was mid-level, upper-level regional manager. i was mid-level, upper-level regional manager. people do not have any money to go out and move their -- and move the economy a. if i do hope congress passes this on appointment extension bill preowned i know it is not

popular and to them it will seem like a step backward but it would help these invisible people that are off on the sidelines. it would help them pay their to anhones, get them interview, put casts -- put gas in their car. of i am on the -- i am on the internet every day and i read the stories. it is very hard out there. it is very very rough out there. we need temporary help from the government. and i predict this economy will roll along. we need the unemployment benefits now. it'll help somebody people. isler: this is -- host: this roger from illinois. go ahead. caller: i am in the i.t. field. when the gentleman talks about , i.t. has affected this

economy quite a bit. you have things like amazon, from on theirp mobile phone. what i think needs to be done is basically -- training has to be .nvolved we need to get to a higher standard of education where we don't have to keep outsourcing. he we can -- we can start in sourcing our i.t.. he looked at the -- look at the 1980's. nowadays the whole economy has changed. feel sorry for people in their 50's. the changes are difficult.

we have to understand we are living in a very different automated economy pre--- automated economy. the middle management will be hurt. host: we will continue on in our conversation about the economy, especially in light of those numbers that came out yesterday. nancy cook will talk about the unemployment numbers and what it means for the economy. later on we will hear from damien paletta from the wall street journal. he writes about the problems that about other problems, the facilities -- writes about other problems. on our newsmaker program tomorrow, republican policy committee chair. here's a preview of the exchange that took place between reporters and senator barrasso.

[video clip] to know about the classified briefing both earlier and the administration said health was a concern but now there are reports indicating that there is a different reason. there was a death threat involved in that is why they could not inform congress within 30 days. is that a credible excuse? >> and no, i think that the senate briefing -- there was basically stonewalling of the session. i heard this from both sides of the aisle. republicans and democrats were equally skeptical of the stories that were being told. the white house continues to seem to change its story. it is interesting today. out, "moree came kidnappings to come," after the deal. they released five hard and

--rorists -- five hard and hardened terrorists. these five go back to afghanistan, go back into the fight as rock stars. sides many of us on both of the aisle, this was a terrible deal. if the president had gone to republicans and democrats in the senate and intelligence committee they would have heard the sound of "no." >> there are americans in custody around the world and some senators are indicating maybe others could be released. if that happens, if we see a similar type of person swap, should impeachment be on the table? >> i'm not going to go to that at this time. what i will say is the administration needs to follow the law. what i think the at menstruation did here with the release of these five absolute hardened

terrorists that will go into the fight, i did not hear anything in a classified briefing that would change my opinion on that read i think it was a mistake in the president needs to follow the law in terms of coming to congress. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us is nanticoke with washington journal. she is there fiscal correspondent. as far as the numbers that came out yesterday, what are some other things that we should know behind the numbers about what is going on with jobs and the economy? guest: a lot of people thought these numbers were great. it was one of the consecutive months where we had a job growth. these are all great headlines. underneath the headlines there are some worrisome things. a couple of key takeaways from that is if you have a college degree you are much less likely to be unemployed than anybody with a high school agree. that is a big problem.

the other problem is how the unemployment rate actually breaks down among different people. there are still a really high unemployment rate for teenagers, still for african-americans. the final concern is the quality of jobs being added. this recovery has been marked by a lot of lower wage jobs rather than jobs in the professional business services. we have seen huge losses in manufacturing, construction, and government jobs are typically jobs that pay better. a lot of jobs that have been added are in food service, which haven't been enough for people to support their families on. host: we had a tweet that maybe you can relay some information on as well. difference -- workforce participation different than what we have seen in unemployment numbers? workers participation rate hasn't gone up and hasn't

gone down. it is remaining low. the question is as the economy continues to add jobs and get better and we are seeing this of growth,eady rate are people coming back to the workforce or have we seen a permanent drop in that number? that is something we do not know yet, although we do know it is lower than it should be. host: these are the people that stopped looking for work altogether? guest: it could be a number of different things. baby boomers are starting to retire, so people are leaving the workforce en masse. could be people, particularly those who are unemployed for six months to a year, they just dropped out of the labor force because they felt frustrated by this. the question is once the economy does get better and the unemployment rate does continue to take down over the next several months, will they rejoined the labor force? host: to we get anything to suggest these trends will happen as far as these jobs we are seeing over the last four months?

these economists put out forecasts before the jobs numbers come out, saying this is how many jobs we think they will add. their forecasts were on par this month as opposed to other months. winter is harder to protect because of the weather. it seems like we are in this steady but slow recovery. month by month things are starting to look better. i think we will continue to see that pace through the fall, which will have political implications because we have the midterm elections at that point. host: what do they see in these numbers and is there more confidence among those folks as far as the ability of making the jobs that people hopefully get? guest: i think for them it is still a great scenario. if you are an employer or job creator there are a lot of qualified people for the most part. also wages have not gone up. it is not like you have to pay people more.

you have a big labor force and still have your pick up employees. people are starting to leave jobs more quickly. it is still a buyers market. host: one of the descriptions of job creators, my stomach is still nervous. guest: you see people are still trying toous, still geek more productivity out of existing workers they have. , similar to the labor force participation rate, to be start to see a more competitive labor market? do you see their wages go up over time? host: do we see changes in spending habits? i would think spending by people are an indicator of their competency.

guest: that is a good question, too. the way we see the consumer spending confidence jump up is typically the number of people who have full-time work. work, that full-time means you are feeling more comfortable buying a car, a dishwasher, things like that. that does translate to more consumer confidence. i would say people are spending more while they are buying second homes. in there is a sense with the -- the economy added more jobs, which is great. then there's is the perception of the economy. that there is a perception the economy is not great. the perception can really trump the actual reality of the numbers. host: nanticoke joining us to talk about the unemployment numbers, the condition of the economy.

you can ask your questions on the lines this morning. for those of you who are collecting unemployment or are unemployed -- how has the white has taken these numbers and what is the reaction from republicans on the same front? republicans continue to say this recovery has not been robust enough. the obama white house has not done enough to create jobs, that has been there talking point. they are right in some ways, it is not necessarily the fault of one party or another. the recovery has been slow. it just shows you the depth of the recession we were actually in. house, the the white white house always applauds any time the economy added jobs. this is the fifth consecutive

month we have added over 200,000 jobs in a month. to the white house that is a great headline going into the midterm when there are a number of democrats going into the senate. of numbers like this help overcome the of the political obstacles, like the rollout of the affordable care act. host: i suspect there will be get things for them. guest: people open up their and seeing over 200,000 jobs. we are back to the number of jobs we had before the recession. bill is from spartanburg, south carolina on the republican line. caller: i can't believe the recession is over when 36 million people are getting food stamps area host: the number of people -- food stamps area host:

-- food stamps. t: the number of people,m unemployed that has dropped by about 2 million people over the last 12 months. i still think there are a ton of people hurting out there. people who don't have a high school or college degree, that is where you see this to track recovery. the recession seems like something in their rear view window. a people working lower wage jobs, this economic recovery has been hard. host: the unemployment rate for those with less than a high 9.1%. degree is guest: those are startling numbers. articlese been so many about the boom and the number of

student loans people are taking out and this idea of potentially a student loan bubble and what is the value of college. i think these numbers fair out that having a college degree not only doubles your earnings but also ensures that you are much less likely to be unemployed. host: the president set to make an announcement next week taking a look at college cost and things of that matter. next call is from louisville, kentucky. this is frank. good morning. let's try franklin more time. ron, minnesota, independent line. caller: good morning. back in the 50's, the government -- i could provide for myself and my family. now, it is used for tossing the word job around. i need three of them to provide for my family. what is the true definition of a

job? thank you very much. guest: that is a great point. what you're bringing up disappointed a lot of people feel. a job should be something where you have enough money to support a family. maybe you get health insurance. both have a savings account. that is something that has eluded a lot of people. particularly in low-wage jobs. they have to decide between buying food and paying their rent. wages just have not risen for them. that is why, politically, you see so many cities thinking about raising the minimum wage. there's a big fight coming over that. exactly what the color -- caller brough up. people cannot pay their bills and that is frustrating. host: people in seattle just voted on an increase.

guest: what is fascinating is that what is happening is that the state and city level, there are these laboratories for what policies will play out. seattle will have a $15 minimum wage. that will be an amazing experience and. -- experiment. what kind of job offers will that lead to? it is very similar to the way a lot of policies are enacted. medical care and things like that. we are host: able to see with a looks like. host: host: let's try frank again from louisville, kentucky. caller: i have a very big concern. my wife was a director of nursing. i will not mention which state. she graduated from the university. she thnen -- we moved to another state.

she got a job, an inferior job to what she was doing. it was not a managerial job. she was just a nurse. the abuse and there was unbelievable. she was working from 5:00 in the morning to 11:00 at night for a salary that -- like $1400, it was every two weeks. --y gave her some kind of there were two managers that left there. the organization, she applied for a managerial job. the people most likely got scared. highly qualified for the job. they use it as an excuse that she abandoned a patient. and they fired her.

it is incredible what is going on. it took her five months. guest: i think the caller makes a great point. the crux of it is that workers have a hard time. the number of people in unions has fallen. they do not have the same protections. wages have not risen. and chooseto pick what kind of worker they will hire, fire. people are reluctant to add people to the payroll, even though these job numbers are getting better. for workers, it has been very hard. host: in an economy like ours, it is not easy to think about going to another job. into howhat factors the picture works. guest: it depends where you live in the country. if you live in rhode island, there is a high unemployment rate. you may not think about moving there because of that.

if you lose your job, it will take you a long time to find a new one. there's just not a lot of jobs being created there. host: back to the previous caller -- in the snapshot, what is the hours worked, things like that. guest: full-time work would be 35 or 40 hours. part-time work -- people who may want full-time work and are seeking more work -- then there are definitions like the unemployed, long-term unemployed. so, those are how the bureau does these measures. timesthe new york highlights this hidden unemployment category. the rate was 7.3% per day. guest: that is still a big number. was ait is someone who nurse, who was laid off or fired and wants another professional job like that, where he or she can put their skills to work.

they may end up working at crate and barrel or a retail job because that is the only thing available. those are the types of people who would be classified under that. host: john boehner is weighing in as well. he says if we get government out of the way, we will see the economy return to real growth and prosperity. he talks about the regulatory aspect of the government, when it comes to employers. guest: the republicans in the house have a philosophy that a much smaller government, with lower tax rates, less services, would stimulate economic growth. that has been the party position for the last several months. one interesting fight that has happened over the last few months has been the extension of the emergency unemployment benefits. though stopped some time this winter. there are millions of people who have not been able to get unemployment benefits. these are benefits for people who have been out of work for a long time.

republicans, particularly in the house, have blocked that. host: president obama weighing in as well. he says good news, there are 15,000 private sector jobs. does the president have any options under executive authority as far as job creation and veterans? the white house really tried in february a few things to boost a few things. they increase the minimum wage for federal workers. wouldof the money that it take to stimulate the economy really has to come through congress. congress still controls the spending. has wanted toe spend more money on infrastructure project, which is a really easy way to fix the country's crumbling infrastructure and also get more people back to work. congress really has not wanted to spend that kind of money. same thing with the emergency unemployment benefit.

a lot of democrats want to see that happen. that has not gone through, either. host: next call is from mark in morgantown, north carolina on the democrats line. caller: good morning. i cannot believe all of the rhetoric i am hearing on the news about everything getting better. everyone knows it is not. the figures are skewed. they only go on to who it applies, and that sort of thing. what we're seeing in the south and the appalachians is all of this is a result of the regulations in the southeastern region. everyone is migrating to mexico and china. it has left all of the engineer and support industry, that were built around supporting the major industries, textiles, it has left them all bankrupt.

and we are seeing jobs that 10 years ago paid $10 per hour. now they are talking about what a good job it is and they are paying $11 or $12. we have college-educated engineering people like myself fighting over that job. manyality, there are qualified for each job. the whole thing about the recession getting better's ridiculous. the only thing bringing this country back is to bring down the free trade and what they promote. host: let's get your response. labor market jobs offer a snapshot of where we are. but they really do not get out what the caller is talking about. the economy has fundamentally changed over the last five years. so, for people who may be working blue-collar industries,

people in different areas of the country, they have been decimated. manufacturing, construction. they're not coming back, necessarily. i think with the color is getting at -- where are you going to plug in all of these workers who may have these good technical skills, either in manufacturing or this person who is calling for engineering? where do you love them back into the economy at wages that are livable? host: the washington post has this headline. the economy has reached a milestone, no thanks to the housing sector. and labor housing market has really been the last piece of the puzzle of the recovery. the housing market remains sort of flailing a little bit. part of that is because a lot of first-time homebuyers have been locked out of the housing market because the requirements to take out a mortgage are much stricter. what we're seeing is that housing prices are starting to

go up in big cities like new york and washington, d.c. it is very expensive to buy a house here nowadays. seeing a lot of first-time homebuyers -- they typically risk present 40%. they actually can get loans. because of that, the housing sector has fallen behind. host: what about foreclosures? guest: those aren't necessarily as on pace as they were. that is not really the issue. the issue is more of the lending. host: next up is boston, massachusetts on the independent line. caller: hello. calling in regards to people like in their 50's or up. everybody seems to be focusing in on the younger people. i understand that. but people like me -- i lost my job in 2008. to i have not even been able

get a job working in walgreens or anything. because they will not hire somebody at my age, when they can hire a younger kid to do the same thing. so, i would like to speak to something regarding that. i never hear anybody talking about people in their 40's and 50's, who have lost their jobs. we have been out of work now for seven years. i cannot find anything. and i never probably well. so, i would just like nancy to speak to that. thank you very much. guest: thank you for calling. i am sorry to hear you have had a hard time. i think this is very common, actually. a lot of people in their 30's and 40's, who are laid off -- have faced terrible

discrimination in getting a new job. it is very common for the older worker to not necessarily be able to get back into the labor market. even a retail job or a much lower paying job and they had. that is the biggest inconsistency we have seen. the white house has talked about measures to reduce discrimination. discrimination is a very slippery thing. it is hard to enforce that. we have seen that trend. the scary thing is, what will sustain these workers? a lot of people may take social security sooner. we have seen the people on disabilities skyrocket. think that some of these people may be going into disability because they cannot find work. it does not benefit them financially to take social security earlier. are people in their late 40's and 50's now considered older?

guest: it is strange, but yes. maybe not late 40's, but definitely 50's and 60's. people have had a really hard time finding work. employers would rather hire somebody who they see as much younger, much cheaper. maybe more tech savvy. i am saying that these are stereotypes, not necessarily accurate portrayals. that is the going rate here. do you combat discrimination against older workers when it is something that is hard to prove? host: bay city, michigan is where marge lives. she is calling on the republican line. caller: good morning. i have been in this industry for a number of years. tryingnline job forum, to find a good job in this industry. for the last 17 years. there's absolutely no shortage of jobs in either sector. even internal jobs, within the

trucking company's management area or just answering a phone. i don't understand. where are the people? as almost as not matter, long as they have had the physical and qualify in that respect. host: what got you interested in the trucking industry? caller: my uncle owned a small trucking company. he would take us for a ride in his truck. i also met and married another operator. he got me into the business. i work for one of the largest companies in the country. would be the internet the next big thing, so i found my drivers online. i quite naturally fell into my own job force. host: re: finding a lot of women in the trucking industry? caller: in fact, i have found the women in trucking organization seven years ago. we have seen an increase, not

just because of us, but in our efforts to get women interested in driving trucks. but, just a lot of things have happened to encourage women to apply. a lot of times we're finding that women make -- i hate to say better drivers than men, but more detail minded and on time drivers. they care more about the job. whyas been a puzzle to me the government does not encourage women and men to get into trucking industries. especially since there is almost no age barrier and the industry will train them for free. guest: i was actually down in tennessee nine or 10 months ago doing some economic stories. i did attend a class with a bunch of people -- they were becoming truckers. they were going through the training process too.

it was always people who had worked in various industries. some had worked at walmart, some had been at amazon for film and center. they were being retrained because they thought that this was potentially a bright area where they could control their hours more. i have seen some state retraining programs. host: a couple of tweets. one asks about the economy and how it changes the future. what is technology like with robotics? guest: that remains to be seen. there are not a lot of cashiers. there is the self-serve checkout. i think we will see more things like that. technology has been great for the workforce. that means that you do not always have to be at your desk or e-mail anywhere. it is great for people in these professional office jobs. i think in blue-collar jobs, it has been trickier.

the jobs there are very high skilled. they require people who have a lot of technical skills and are able to run machinery. so, technology has been great for the economy. it is great for these huge companies, which has been great job creators. at the same time, it has decimated some sectors. question, if you could compare the disparity of jobs in the public sector versus private -- guest: sure. the one thing that we have seen as the government jobs have really gone down. the federal government and washington, d.c. has been shedding jobs for the last year. more of the much job growth in the private sector. jobs inof those are professional business services. a lot are retail or behind the counter at mcdonald's. host: four nancy cook, this is susan from pennsylvania. independent line. caller: i am glad that you are

answering questions. i am amazed that nobody is holding these companies accountable for what they are doing. i have been out of work, not because i do not want to work. but because i felt sick. i cannot work a full day shift. i work for one of the biggest companies. sayingay, i get a call that if you do not go back full-time, we cannot accommodate you anymore. i want to work. i go out every day for the four hours that i have to. i am compelled not to. i think that the hold companies accountable. now i will be out of a job. i am trying not to be out of a job. instead of accommodating me, they're pushing me out of the workforce. i think people are getting fed up and walking away. they're walking away because they cannot stand this pressure.

that companies put on them. they have a family to support. food put on the table. we are trying so hard to make it. even when you have to walk with a cane and a wheelchair. you still put in the effort. every day you go to work and they cannot accommodate you anymore. guest: i think the caller is representing a great viewpoint. workers have had such a hard time. if you think about it, workers and companies have different goals. workers want the best wage. they want good working conditions and flexibility when they get sick. they want to be able to take time off. they want temporary disability. they want companies to care for them. companies, the goal of companies is the bottom line, ultimately. it is making money and making money for shareholders. that is really the goal of major companies. so, sometimes those goals are at odds with one another. i think that we have seen that in the recession.

workers and companies do not always agree on what the outcome should be. the relation between numbers that come up in the role of the federal reserve. the wall street journal says that the job support will intensify debate on rate hikes. what is happening now? host: -- guest: the federal reserve will meet later this month. the 17th and 18th. there are two debates happening. one is that they pumped a lot of money into the economy to keep it growing. they have started to withdraw that money slowly, month by month. so, i think these job numbers and the fact that the economy is getting better will encourage them to stand that trajectory. the other piece of the puzzle is, when will interest rates rise? keyfederal reserve is the institution that has dealt with a lot of the economy. typically, they focus on monetary policy.

they have also played a huge role in economic recovery in this quiet way. that is the debate they will have in mid to late june as they talk about how all should interest rates rise? when should this go up? that is a tricky conversation to have. host: there are connections between what they do and what we see in employment and housing? guest: sure. if you raise the interest rates, it means that you will pay more interest on something like your mortgage. if people are having a hard time getting a mortgage, you do not want to raise interest rates, which would further incentivize people to buy houses. host: i know that the chairwoman has said that -- that initiallygs was looked at was the unemployment rate in making these decisions. it goes further than that. guest: yeah. within the last year, the federal reserve has decided that

the unemployment rate is not necessarily the best loan metric. just because it has gone up and down. screwy numbers in the winter, which were hard to predict and understand. because of the weather, people were not necessarily looking for jobs. yellen, the first female chair of the federal reserve -- this is a huge deal. she is a great economist, who has focused a lot on unemployment. she said we want a wider dashboard. to help us think about the health of the economy, not just stick with a one low number. it does not necessarily pay the full picture. host: our next caller is from vermont. good morning. caller: good morning. i tried to give my comments regarding employment. my first comment is about president obama. a very human,a is people.rt genius of

he worked hard to improve the job situation. women's rights. health. encourage people to exercise, think about health, think about everything. the problem is back at con gress. these, give this gentleman a chance. see what he has to prove his plans. anything he brings to congress -- host: i think we lost her. guest: i think what the color is getting at is the stalemate in washington. it is a terrible levels. we have not seen this level of partisanship in a while. really, now that we're in the we havet's second term, the president and congress not agreeing on anything.

in a lot of ways, even though there are all of these headlines and they have tried to do executive orders, there is not a lot of policy being made. housess and the white can't agree. also, we have an election coming up. people do not want to make a lot of move straight before that. policy, of economic there is not a lot happening. even though the economy remain such a critical issue. host: so issues like the unemployment insurance bill -- that probably will not be resolved this year? guest: ueyeah. infrastructure spending is not going anywhere. the unemployment insurance debate -- these are for emergency benefits and people who have been out of work for much longer. that debate has really been raging since january. now we are in june. that has been going on for five months. host: here is richard in tennessee. republican line.

caller: yes, sir. i am somewhat of an honesty. i may unionize republican. i was just wanting to make the comment that the administration but ato talk about jobs, job is not a job just because you say it is a job, it is not a sustaining job. one of the issues that i have also is the minimum wage. it seems like we're willing to give up and say the minimum wage is our new standard now. we need to raise the bottom up and this is the best that we can do. i think america can do that are. host: ok. good: i think that is a point. i think a lot of workers feel

like that. particularly those that are working full-time and making minimum wage. $10 per hour or $11 per hour. there is a sense that they cannot pay their bills on time, they may be in debt. there's this frustration. how much does it take to support a family? is it $15 per hour. ? i think we will continue to see this debate rage on as they weight whether they should raise the minimum wage. and as we see with the result has been of this low wage recovery. most of the jobs being added back are low-wage ones. what does that mean in the long term? in an anecdotal way, are places that a living wage is working? guest: yeah. i think that we have to wait and

see what happens in places like seattle, where it is a lot higher. minnesota and wisconsin have different minimum wages. they are right next to each other. a, the new york times wrote great piece a little while ago, looking at what that meant. there is a trade-off for workers. you have a little more money in your pocket. that is good because you are more likely to spend money. for employers, you need a higher salary. that may mean that if a bar, maybe leaves a you do not replace that dishwasher. economists are debating, what is the balance there? indianapolis, indiana. democrats line. caller: look at the small government. here we go talking about small government again.

when the government shutdown happened, we had a lot of government and ploys living off of credit cards. they were not counted in the unemployment census whatsoever. i am tired of hearing republicans a small business, small government. the unemployment rate would be a lot higher than it is. yeah, so i think that the workers are talking about what would happen with smaller government. we are seeing smaller government. that is happening. people are not necessarily agreeing to a huge new spending projects like infrastructure. they are shedding jobs. it is not as small a government as republicans would like. it is moving to a smaller overall footprint. host: last call is from georgia. this is david. caller: i would like to thank

you for letting me on. i want to go to a little bit of history and that how things have worked in the past and basic economics. late 1800s, we had to go outside the gate just to get a pay raise. inside the gate, they just worked the best. that goes back to basic 101. when you give the working man the dollar -- they spend those dollars in this community those dollars go six times, as opposed to giving it to a wealthy person who puts it in the bank and forgets about it. it just makes him more money. just as a typical american -- you are working ourselves out of a job. they're not taking that money and turning it back to an economy that changes every 20 years to some kind of new business model. thisare not stepping into

new role to help them make more money. host: -- guest: i think that they're talking about the benefits of ensuring people who have good full-time jobs. making sure that older workers can get back into the labor market and making sure that people have a living wage. there are economic benefits so that people have more money to spend. you're more likely to buy a car. more likely to buy coffee on the way to work. consumer spending is a key way that the economy gets better. when people have full-time work, when they feel confident about their economic prospects, that is helpful to the strength of the economy. ast: what is next as far numbers from the federal government to determine how we are economically? guest: i think the next big thing will be the federal reserve meeting. the federal reserve is debating whether or not to raise interest rates. these jobless numbers come out the first friday of every month. it is like a festival for econ

geeks like myself. i think we will see that. and going into the midterm elections, will be interesting to see is can we continue this consecutive job growth of over $200,000 -- 200,000 jobs per month? host: nancy cook with national journal, thank you for your time. coming up, we will take at least look at a recent story from the wall street journal that looks at ba hospitals. we have heard about wait times. damian paletta will be up next. ater on, seth green on jihad nd groups. we are highlighting salt lake city utah this weekend on book tv and american history tv. these are vehicles that travel the country to highlight literary and historical features

of the cities. this piece on salt lake city will take a look at the city library and how it was designed by internationally acclaimed architects. >> we wanted to build a very iconic structure for the city since we were anchoring part of the downtown area. because other city blocks are smaller, this building would not fit in other urban areas, just because it is very wide and that crescent wall sweeps around and

it's very elegant, but also very large. and very eye-catching. and just the openness, the facility -- and, it is just a great place to be. one thing that we like about the design is that he combined different geometric features. we have the triangular main part of the building. we have a round auditorium on the side of the building. a rectangular structure on the left side that we call be bar. and then the crescent wall that hugs the library on the north and east side. and all of these different geometric features are bridged together with skylights. so, light flows through the buildings at all levels. we have a total 360 degree view of our surroundings, the city, the mountains, and the area we are in. joseph smith was the founding

prophet of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. the account that we have of his first vision is from a book that he began writing in 1832. in the front part of the book, he wrote a personal history about his life at that point. and he describes his vision that he had 12 years earlier. he himself did not write a lot of things personally. he had clerks writing for him. altogether, in printed form. we will have about 200 print ed volumes of about 500 pages a piece. the literary life of salt lake city, utah, this weekend on book tv and american history tv. >> "washington journal" continues. joining us now, we are

going to take a look at veterans affairs. a lot of people reported on veterans affairs these days. what are you reporting on? guest: this does not get a lot of attention until something bad happens. secretary of the v.a. resigned a week ago because of this vague candle that had to do with the waiting times. people had to have waiting times at these facilities. now we are reporting that the quality of the care at some of these hospitals is not as good as people expected. there's actually a big disparity. some hospitals are quite good, like the one in boston. in some hospitals, the quality of care is quite poor. the one in phoenix has been getting a lot of attention. they have much higher rates of fromtion and deaths infections. this is not something that the v.a. has disclosed. it is opening up a whole new chapter in the scrutiny of the agency. it is one thing for people to wait a long time for an appointment, but it is another to have the quality of care in

question. that is something that could potentially lead to more scrutiny. host: one of the disparities that you mentioned is that this concerns bloodstream infections. guest: that is right. a lot of our veterans, we go back to iraq and afghanistan. the majority are actually much older. the largest group is vietnam veterans. there are about seven millions of them. they will need ivs for fluid, or whatever. when you get infections, that can be quite serious. i could even lead to death. we're talking about a low rate of this happening. anything higher than the average is not good. in some places, it is much higher than average. was 11n phoenix, it times higher than the top v.a. hospitals. if you go to boston, it is 63% below average. guest: we have a lot more data on the v.a. then on uother hospitals. when you have a uniform system like the v.a., there should be

more consistency than we are staying here. one of the other issues is that the public does not know that much information about how these hospitals compared to each other. there is some information, but not a tremendous amount. host: where do you get your information to make this analysis? been kind ofe aggressive in trying to get to the bottom of what is going on at these hospitals. the v.a. -- host: does the v.a. keep their own statistics? guest: v.a. does keep a tremendous amount of information. some of it is made public, but not the information that we obtain. it is a new metric that they have called sail. they keep that information confidential. congress has been trying to get their hands on it since last year. the v.a. has not turned it over. this creates a one star to five star metric. to determine the overall ranking. it is about 10 or 12 one star

hospitals. 10 or 12 five-star hospitals. when someone walks into one of these clinics, they have no idea what they're dealing with. that thatsaid information is held by the v.a. but not released to congress? guest: the v.a. says it is a work in progress. kind of an untested methodology how they do this. it is sort of an internal benchmarking. congress says that these are public hospitals and we have a right to know. i think the v.a. is still testing it out. we'll have to see when a new secretary is nominated and confirmed, whether they feel that they have to bend to the will of congress. host: back to the disparity issues. when you look at the mortality rates -- the information we get from your reporting is that we look at phoenix and it is 32% higher. higher than what? guest: the average of the top v.a. facilities.

this is the benchmark for the agency's top-tier hospitals. there are other hospitals too. in this category of hospitals, they probably get more attention. host: does that mean that these different hospitals, as far as the quality of the staff -- is that different? or are there other factors? guest: we're trying to get to the bottom of that. a lot of doctors at the v.a. are also doctors at other hospitals. or symbol, we talk about boston. there are great teaching hospitals in boston. some of those doctors might work at world famous hospitals and also at the v.a. bench in a great boston to use. phoenix has a lot of problems. a lot of people have been fired because of the scandal. the question is, do the v.a .'s around the country, do they have a good network and resource

of doctors and nurses that they have access to? host: one more statistic then. when you look at the lowest ranks facilities, phoenix is on that list. there's also atlanta, houston, and dublin, georgia. guest: that is right. one of the other documents we have obtained says that there are four or five hospitals that have been one star hospitals for several years. they have had several really bad years. what has the v.a. done to get these hospitals moving up the ladder? that is a question we do not have answers to. host: if you look at the top performing facilities, you go to places like boston, cleveland, indianapolis. guest: we have the cleveland clinic in cleveland, the mayo clinic -- i think there is some and xm between the overlap between those hospitals and the v.a. there.

a lot of the hospitals attract. host: how did they take a look at these figures and what did they do to improve? guest: clearly, the reason you have a benchmark scoring metric like this is so you can determine which hospital people can learn from. theseave only been doing budgets for a few years, so we do not know how they are using these numbers to change behaviors. if you have a hospital like the one in phoenix that was underperforming, this is not a minor thing. that is the sort of stuff that you expect to see changes in. host: was this a brainchild of eric shinseki? guest: i don't think so. it may have started at the staff level and worked its way up. host: what kind of attention have you gone from this article? guest: lots of e-mails from veterans who have concerns and want to know how their house that'll ranks. -- hospital ranks.

it is a very scary thing for anybody when you go on the hospital. you want to know the quality kerry were receiving. metric, itave this can be a great resource for people. host: is there congressional oversight on these areas and have there been reactions? guest: absolutely. the chairman of the house, jeff miller, he has requested this information a year ago. i expect him to push for more information. hasd scott, from georgia, also told the v.a. that he wants this information. we have a bipartisan push for the stuff to be disclosed. how does the v.a. do it? and do it in a way to protect patient confidentiality? jeff miller, we will hear from him in just a second. if you want to ask damian about this information you have heard about, here are the numbers to call.

our guest mentioned jeff miller. here is his statement. [video clip] >> americans are a grateful people. we reject the idea of letting our own people down. all of this deception and incompetence at the v.a. with no accountability and no action, it is more than just a shame. it is a national disgrace. this week, we ask the president to take three immediate steps. first, we ask the president to support a bill that house has already passed, that makes it easier to fire senior v.a. executives who refuse to do their jobs. no more slaps on the wrist. whoonly write those contribute it should have is the right to be shown the door.

second, we asked the president to order the v.a. to fully cooperate with the committees investigating this matter. the v.a. is currently sitting on 111 requests from our committee alone. it has become a case study in how to stonewall the public and this has to change. third, we asked the president to back reforms that would ask the president to offer reforms to private care to any veteran faced with unacceptable waits for treatment. host: those are general statements, but what you glean from those? this is not like the farm bill or a transportation bill. people have a tremendous amount of affection for veterans. wasaw that the president just in normandy on the 70th anniversary of d-day. both of my grandparents were in world war ii. people identify with the military and veterans. obviously, there are 22 million veterans in this country. this is something that people

deal attached to. it is a nightmare scenario for anything bad to happen to our veterans. probably worse for the democrats because they control the white house. they have to figure out how to straighten this out, because it would be a political disaster, november with the midterm elections for there to be some sort of crisis with the health care of veterans. host: he said 111 requests for information? guest: they go back at least a year. is this committee overwhelming with questions? or is the v.a. not cooperating at all with these requests? they do not have a secretary now. someone who was nominated for a senior role, taking care of the hospitals, they rescinded their nomination this week. is this a place that we will get top quality people to go to? that is a really important question. some changes will be considered. host: one of those changes

coming as far as new leadership is concerned is the head of the cleveland clinic? guest: that is right. a doctor, he leaves one of the most famous hospital systems in the country. he has been at the cleveland clinic since 1970. he is about 73 years old. he gave money to mitt romney, so does not like he is a big white house ally. he gave some semi-positive statements about the affordable care act. nothing that will disqualify him from nomination. we know that the white house is looking at him closely. he is the kind of person who has gotten republican support. the republican from ohio, where cleveland is, has said positive things. and john mccain from arizona has also said positive things. economician reports on issues. first call is from georgia. republican line, good morning. caller: good morning, how are

you? why is it that we keep talking about world war ii veterans? veterans, the unum noerans, afghan veterans, mention ever about korean veterans. and also, i would like to comment on the table in georgia forest service. my brother is a vietnam veteran. , seven months ago, they told him that he did not have a podiatrist. they would set him up an appointment with a podiatrist outside the v.a. facility. well, when all of this broke -- let me back up. in another case, blood was discovered in his stool. when all of this broke, lo and behold, they had it but i trust. they called him and set up an

appointment for a podiatrist. and at the same time to see a cardiologist. well, now he has to have some kind of echo exam. and a stress test. then they will look at doing a colonoscopy. host: we will let our guest respond. guest: one of the things that is. and challenging in the v.a. there were 170 hospitals. the big challenges you have a big population of americans from the korean war and vietnam. they are heavily concentrated in certain parts of the country. we're seeing none places like arizona and florida. there are afghan and iraq war veterans in different parts of the country. we need to have a hospital system that is tailored to where the vets are. so, it is very hard to close these hospitals for it even if

they are not being utilized. lawmakers will kick and scream to prevent hospital from in close. there are some great hospitals that people are not getting enough care in and there are hospitals that are overwhelmed with demand. it is not like moving about all should. it is moving a hospital. that is very difficult to do. host: information from the v.a. tells us about protected veteran population of about 21 billion. . last year.of 7.3 million come from the vietnam era. 5.5 during peacetime. for worldmillion plus war ii vets. down from 26s million veterans a few years ago. the number of veterans is falling. but the number of veteran seeking health care is rising. and the number of veterans applying for disability benefits. sadly, there are fewer veterans to care for. on the other hand, those that are remaining are requiring more

services. host: in different types of services deal with ptsd. guest: absolutely. the numbers coming from iraq and afghanistan with dramatic brain injuries is shocking. and the number of americans with severe traumatic brain injuries is in the thousands. six or 7000. or 600,000are 500 veterans who are getting benefits. there are more women veterans now. that is changing how we care for them as well. host: this is henry from michigan. democrats line. go ahead, please. obviously the wall street journal does not want to do due diligence. it is part of this orchestrated scandal against our president. all of these facilities are in the deep south. they are in red states.

the administrators of the v.a. in these red states are obviously politically connected to the treasonous republican confederacy. these people are doing this on purpose, just like the governors of the states that take the money to take the economy down. these people are taking our veterans and using them for political purposes to hurt barack obama, as everything else has been for the last six years that he has been president. guest: thank you for your call. that thedoubt hospitals that are having the most problems are all in the deep south. one of the problems is that we do not have the full slate of scores for all 150 hospitals. i imagine that there are challenges around the country. hopefully, when we get more information about how the rank, we will have a clearer picture. host: from twitter, a viewer asks if you can speak to the

replies goals-against whistleblowers? page, from the federal saying there's a probe looking at retaliation against them. guest: there are so many investigations going on, it shows you the severity of what went wrong. there are 300,000 employees. a lot of people realize that something was going wrong. you have a number of people, dozens of them, who were blowing the whistle. it were saying this is wrong, we should not be doing this. it is terrible that these people are having to wait so long. some of these people are oreging that they were fired did not get promoted or were retaliated against. the inspector general is looking into whether that happened and sort of the cover-up of the c rime, in some respects. host: here is gary from minnesota. independent mind, hi there. you are on, go ahead. caller: i just got out of the

hospital two days ago. i was over in fargo. i started out in my home town here and had an emergency. i just want to say, i am hearing so much negative. our hospital appear was fantastic. good doctors, great nurses. extremely clean. three years ago, i moved back here from st. petersburg. that hospital was congested. and a large hospital. but i got tremendous treatment there also. i just want to give a positive note. why can't we just turn some of these hospitals that are doing great and kind of do what they are doing? guest: i'm really glad that he called. that is the point is really important to make. the v.a. system, about 20 years ago, they made a bunch of changes. a lot of people consider the quality of care at the majority of va hospital to be as good or

better than other hospitals. they really figured out a lot. some of the hospitals in minnesota, cleveland, and boston provide care that will compare with any other great hospital in the country. the question is, why is the service that other hospitals not as good? if we have such great va hospital elsewhere? that is the sort of thing that people will try to get to. i don't mean to discourage people from going to the v.a. there are va hospital's that provide tremendous health care. says, how didter congress let this happen while watching? guest: there has been so much of the last few years. the one place there has not been any budget battle is the v.a. the budget tripled. congress is very concerned with all of these veterans coming back from the wars. they want to make sure they have all the service they need. we had a big uproar over walter

reed. it is not a veterans hospital, the cares for people who come back from the war. that was probably 10 years ago. a lot of people do not want to be seen as holding the purse strings. how much scrutiny was there? we saw congressman miller. he says we sent 111 request for information. maybe there was no back and forth between the v.a. and congress. host: much of the recent issues that we solved all of management. could that be attributed to hospitals performing poorly? guest: possibly. one of the bizarre things about the v.a. is, there is a power structure in washington. there are all of these different zones essentially that run utonomously. the v.a. does not have as much control as you would think. what we're finding out is that some regions were possibly way more out of control than others.

people in washington did not have any sense of what was going on. host: here is homer. he is a veteran from louisiana on the democrats line. caller: yes, sir. good morning, first. i have so much trouble with the buildings. i have some insurance. i am 72 years old. i have medicare, and i have blue cross blue shield on the side. i still get a bill. lastlooking at $244 for my two visits. i don't understand, why am i getting billed? that is one of my biggest gripe. host: bills from the v.a.? caller: yea. we got one this week. i won't call their name, but anyway -- i am getting billed.

i am a vietnam veteran. six-year obligation. i did six years. i'm getting bills, double. i do have to pay a co-pay. host: thank you. guest: one of the interesting and challenging things going forward -- the budget is about $250 billion. about $50 billion is for medical services. when you have people, vietnam and korean war era, the american public feels a great obligation that they continue to provide health care is of all that they have sacrificed. congress has not reconciled, how do you continue doing that when you have so many aging veterans and this new crop of veterans with a whole different number of health care needs? whether it is brain damage or mental health problems. will they have to change the

tri-care benefit that they provide to people? will they have to change the other benefit? an economic policy reporter for the wall street journal here to talk about his look at the recent mva information. a new twist to the story on the congressional side. a deal between bernie sanders from vermont and john mccain, taking a look at the v.a.. what is the deal and what spurred it? guest: the house passed a bill, very quickly, a bipartisan bill, that would make it much easier for the head of the v.a. to punish and get rid of people who did not -- who behaved improperly. one of the points we heard is that there are these people who allegedly created these secret waiting lists. it was very hard for the v.a. to fire them. something,had to do in the eyes of democrats.

bernie sanders chairs the veterans affairs committee in the senate. and john mccain is connected to veterans issues. also, his home state of arizona is kind of ground zero for this whole scandal. he was very involved in the deal. could see a vote very soon, that would make it easier for the heads of the a to get rid of that performers. with some protocol to make sure that people were not fired. but also give money to doctors and nurses. it would also make it easier for people who are on this long the waiting list, or who have had to wait a long time, it will make it easier for them to go to another hospital to receive care or schedule appointments. a broad scope, considering how quickly can together. if it passes in the senate, which is hard to imagine -- what will the house do?

or will they go along just to get this over with? host: one of the initial concerns came from the union and their concerns about retribution and being able to fire at will. guest: that is right. say they they they passed this law now and it is used to fire people associated with the scandal. in 10there be a secretary years use the law to fire whoever they want? unions argue the pendulum is swinging too far. this is hashed out so quickly, and bernie sanders is not known to mandate the unions by any stretch. they are going to force the unions to accept this deal. ont: senator sanders will be this program next tuesday to discuss that and other v.a. related issues. from west virginia, on the veterans -- the independent line. caller: this concerns me.

retired and they give me no insurance. i decided i would go to the v.a. , and see if i could get some coverage because i had no insurance. first, theyd me at ask you a bunch of questions. i put on there that i had some exposure, but that was because of the radar that i worked on. they excepted me and took me in. but then, he looked at it and well, we can't have that. they kicked me out. everything i up had, my money that i had saved , i had therement give that up so i could go back to the v.a..

shot orause i wasn't injured in the vietnam war, i couldn't go to the bea -- the v.a. someone who got her can go, but i can't. there is nothing more complicated than health care, and nothing more important in people's lives than their access to health care. the ability to get some sort of treatment. based -- has faced a lot of pressure on how it treats veterans. they made it a policy change to make it easier for people who were exposed to agent orange to receive health care. -- the v.a. there has had a hard time figuring out how to treat people who weren't shot or injured.

all the other people who served ,n and had a secondary exposure how to deal with them. host: if i understand the sanders bill, he would sign more leases for facilities. would more places be added on in the future? just: initially, it won't be new leases. they will be able to go to private hospitals as long as they accept medicare. they cleared that government threshold of being qualified enough. as long as the hospital accepts medicare, they will be able to go to those hospitals and receive treatment. host: vincent from california, go ahead please. caller: i wanted to speak a little bit about congress. i think everyone agrees we should help the veterans, they should get off their tails and

get it done rather than wait for a year or two. they should give the regional areas responsibility for deciding who can and can't get care, without going all the way to a veterans hospital. in my case, there is a mountain pass that is not passable to get to the closest v.a. outpatient clinic. it's 38 miles away. i suggest they let the regional areas decide who gets to go to a more local facility then who asked to go to a v.a. facility. guest: there is 150 v.a. hospitals, but there are 1700 different facilities that people can receive treatment from. was thehe criticisms regional parts of the v.a. had too much upon me. -- autonomy.

i think that will be a big part of this playing out. how much power the regional parts of the v.a. have, how much of it will be centralized in washington. host: we have seen the interim report on care, when will we see a full report? guest: on waiting lists? i think that will be soon. i think the white house is going to turn around quickly to get this nominee in for the v.a. secretary. this is an agency that can kind of go on autopilot for a few months. the issues he to be addressed immediately. two of the thousand world war ii vets will die this year. i think they will try and get someone in quickly, and get quick bipartisan report to make reforms internally. host: from florida, here's eric, republican line. caller: good morning.

say, if you get congress involved, we are ready have a messed with the v.a.. if you get congress involved, forget about it. they will just mess it up worse. i have been to good hospitals and that hospitals. the v.a. as far as i was -- in the past was a lot worse. it is getting a lot better. since 1978,going the vietnam war era. these to be horrible. you had to wait in line, i would bring a book with me. i could finish a book by the time i got to see somebody. now, with the employment that i if you get yourself a doctor and you get injured, you can get in and out of the v.a. within an hour. havenly problem i really

is getting my prescriptions. i tell them to mail them to me. guest: one of the issues with the scandal is that there are a lot of variation from one va hospital to the next. it's great that a lot of these v.a.'s have improved the quality of their care. -- for example, there used to be a 30 day limit on how long someone would have to wait for an appointment. the obama administration change that to 14 days. thinking this will be a good way to get people into see a doctor. that was impossible for some hospitals to do this, so they couldn't get their act together. they had a secret waiting list to try and get around those rules. clearlypitals participated, the president himself even said that. some hospitals didn't. idea when they

were dealing with this what was going on. host: when you find information like this mortality rate, is the v.a. actively looking at these issues and changing things? guest: the v.a. has told us that when they see a hospital that is off the spectrum, that really is a laggard or falling behind its peers -- if that happens for several years, they have protocol that they direct the hospital to do to make changes. how hard is it to get a hospital bed is a one star hospital to become a three-star hospital? i don't know. if you have chronic infections from intravenous fluids, is that something you send someone in who is an expert to fix it? i don't get is that easy to do. some of these hospitals have been five years, the lowest rated that you can be. it will take more changes than they are currently doing to change that. host: l.a. up next, from new

york. democrats line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i have been listening since the v.a. scandal started. i want to know why we don't hold our congressmen and our senators responsible for their states? how may people in those states of called the senators? what are they done? john mccain has been in the senate for 40 years, he is a war hero. everyone respects that. what has he done? for phoenix? they talk a good story, but it's all about money. it's all about power. they really are so full of themselves. they do nothing, and they blame everything on president obama. i have been interviewing members of congress for about 10 years on a variety of issues.

i financial crisis, debt ceiling, all sorts of things. i have not heard lawmakers as passionate about anything as they are about this. one, they feel, responsible to help you care for these veterans. also, they are politically scared to death of the consequences that they are being seen to not do something to ameliorate the situation. fromlowback they could get sitting on their hands and not getting these veterans help. host: shirley from missouri, on our independents line. caller: i am so happy to be able to express this. i have been sitting here screaming at my television. guest: not at c-span, i hope. help,: congress cannot shinseki could not help, the problem is -- i have the answer. it is the civil service regulation.

the staff of the va hospital suffers from the same evils that teachers unions, construction workers, post office workers, auto workers -- any time an administrator, whether it is the ofd nurse or the secretary v.a. affairs does not have the ability to reassign percentile , or to terminate personnel, you cannot control the quality of work that these people do. and if you look -- i'm a nurse. i have never worked in the v.a. system. but i had a cousin that worked there all of her life. byzantine civil service regulations are terrible. i don't know if they have a rubber room or whatever the

teachers union calls at. -- whenever the teacher union calls it. fair, it's notbe like the v.a. is trying to fire all these people for years. these firings we have only been hearing about since the scandal has come out. the v.a. says we want to get rid of people, but it is not so easy. there were clearly a lot of people that were going along with this whole thing. they are going to fire a bunch of managers or lower-level people, that remains to be seen. but it's not like we heard the v.a. is going to remove a lot of people, and weren't able to because a lot of civil services. this bill would make it a lot easier for the v.a. to jettison employees who were involved in things like this. the house has their version, the senate has their version. is that workable? guest: the senate bill creates a

totle more expedited review make sure people are being fired arbitrarily. it does provide more money for doctors and nurses. it lets people go for health her outside the system as well. it's a broader scope, but the premises about the same. host: we have an e-mail saying wire veterans particularly being treated for conditions that are not service related? guest: i'm still trying to understand exactly how the v.a. system works. one millionout veterans who are perceived disability that -- disability benefits. half of them are from vietnam. these are people who have health issues for years, they are just now starting to get those disability benefits. that population of veterans are still immature -- a major part of our v.a. system. host: mrs. henry, from oklahoma. democrats line.

i have been dealing with the v.a. sense 1960. i have met with different va hospital's, in oklahoma and kansas. the culture of corruption has existed since i was with the v.a.. i have no problems with them now. i have a severe heart condition, i have waited more than 30 days to see a cardiologist. this goes on through the system. thenhose that would go and visit with employees and veterans the lower levels in the va hospital's, if you can talk to them without fear retaliation, they will talk to you. they say that once the veteran

gets into the health care system , they like them. that is not true all. guest: if we had a program that was just about hospitals in general, we would get a good diversity of callers saying -- all sorts of different opinions. the v.a. is held to a higher standard because of the people they are caring for. when you hear horror stories, but also stories of concern. eranam era and korean war veterans, even from iraqi and -- these are people who deserve care. how much cared we give them? how much do we redesign? host: what you expect to see from the next head of the v.a.? guest: i expect to see some people get fired. the big thing to watch is whether they're going to redesign this whole reasonable system toregional

consolidate more power in washington, to give them more scrutiny and the ability to replace managers and make there is more consistency. hereer is going to come in will be the kind of person who is going to break some china. the system has gotten to a place where major changes needed. host: from the wall street journal, damian paletta joins us. coming up, our next guest believes usc's to change its security strategy. seth jones from rand corporation will join us next for the discussion, as washington journal continues after this. ♪ >> the reason we are trying to focus on the speaker is because it is the speaker with the full majesty and weight of his position, who yesterday made certain allegations, which at

this point he is not answered to. i will yield to you. >> you have an audience, you don't normally have this on the 26 hours you have presented this case to the public. the interesting fact is the whole tenor of your marks going back to 1970 and 1972, taken out of context. you were there for one purpose alone. that was to imply that members of your side were un-american in their activities. waited, you motioned. would you respond. you knew that there was nobody here. >> cap scam. put those two men from your perspective. >> speaker o'neill was really a giant. he knew the politics of the house. he knew the politics of the house and he kept much of it to himself.

in terms of other members. he obviously received a great amount of intelligence all day long from members, what was going on in different places. he always believed that the politics was the art of the possible. that nobody got their way all the time. he was a broker within the democratic caucus, and within the house. what you saw was newt gingrich, who made a conscious decision that they would always be in the minority because they worked with the majority. he started attacking bob michael , the leader, and john rhodes, and everybody on that side. because he just said, the only avenue to the majority is through confrontation. and we're going to take them down. this was an argument about the misuse of tv now coming to the floor, where he would ask these rhetorical questions and make these charges. he knew the chamber was empty.

but at that time, the camera was tight on the speaker. the rule came to show that the chamber either had to be shown or empty. the changes the whole dynamics. that was a process that any years later has torn this institution apart. it has paralyzed the institution. miller,essman george sunday night at 8:00 on c-span's q&a. >> washington journal continues. host: our final guest is seth jones with rand corporation. international security and defense policy center director. you make the assertion that there has been a 50% increase in the number of jihadist groups worldwide. how do you come to that figure? guest: we put together a database of the number of you hottest group since 1988.

we look to the number of groups each year that were existing worldwide ash salafi-jihadist groups. we counted every year to see where the trends went. we found an increase over the 's existence.qaeda there was a 58% increase. host: is this the same al qaeda we heard about the whole time? hostguest: the vast majority ofs group is very different. different local goals, they may buy into a different jihadist propaganda. they may not want to target civilians. it is a much more decentralized structure than we have ever seen. host: as far as the group to highlight, what would be of most concern for our viewers? guest: what we found was the groups that continued to plot

attacks against the u.s. homeland are very small in number. what we are really talking about is the group in yemen that has been involved in multiple plots to take down airliners. second is the core al qaeda in pakistan area which has been weakened, but still has some ability. inrd are some of the groups syria, which appear to be a little more interested in external operations. group of nebulous inspired individuals like what we saw in boston. people who are reading social media and becoming radicalized. host: most of those groups are in hot spots of the world currently. does this add to what is going on? guest: it certainly does. the fact we have an ongoing fight in syria right now, then actual multiple insurgencies in yemen -- gingerly with the syrian front, they are attracting people to,.

we saw a bomber come from florida and blow himself up. host: you mentioned a group called salafi-jihadist. what is that? were lookingpes we at our sunni organizations, tose tom -- whose goal is try and return to the prophet mohammed, an established an extreme version of islamic. are generally known as salafi-jihadist. they are a small number of extremist individuals, really the hijacking the religion. host: if these groups are present, and they are growing, what is that mean as far as the u.s. is concerned when it comes to security matters? guest: as i said earlier, we do see threats to the u.s. homeland

from a small number of these groups. where we see the u.s. should probably be concerned is in areas like north africa and the middle east, where some of these ,roups will be plotting attacks kidnapping americans overseas, or plotting attacks against u.s. embassies. some additional countries include libya. host: when it comes to the u.s. posture then, could it be a direct engagement, she would work with other countries? guest: it depends on several factors. the degree of threat posed to the u.s. homeland, and to the u.s. overseas. it also depends on the governance capacity in the countries we are talking about. in cases where there is a direct imminent threat to the u.s. homeland, what we found is a clandestine presence -- u.s. intelligence and special operations forces may be needed to work with locals to conduct missions against these kinds of organizations.

others, we are working with local allies. seth jones, works on national security and defense issues. he is here to talk about jihadist rubes and the increased worldwide. talking about u.s. action. republicans, call (202) 585-3881 , democrats, call (202) 585-3880, independents, call (202) 585-3882. you can tweet us or send us e-mail at journal@c-span.org. reaction from congress -- what is the reaction to things like this? guest: i testified for congress seven or eight times this last year. the response has been politicized in a few occasions. republican senator uses for purposes to critique the president.

done responsibly, this is objective analysis. it is not meant to be left or right leaning. it simply is meant to look at data. the best issue that we can hope for is a sustained debate about what you do about it, that is where the most useful congressional testimony has been. what do you do then, in response to this data? host: there are a couple of headlines that relate. this is from the financial times. it says guest: we have not seen this level of fighters coming to serious since the 1980's. on a trip through europe, i

found it most european governments deeply concerned about home-grown individuals in germany and the united kingdom, and france, and spain, and italy traveling to syria to conduct jihadist activities. a lot of them are using turkey as their primary interest -- entry point. they are going to syria. the question for western intelligence agencies is what do they do afterwards? do they die, do they go to other jihadist battlefronts? do they come back to the west and regain -- remain engaged in terrorism? serious so close to key areas of importance to them, like jerusalem. syria is in the heart of the arab world in ways that afghanistan is not. second, it is a fight right now against the shia in parts. this is been a big focal point

for some of these sunni jihadist groups. they have what they view as a sunni oppressive regime in syria. a regime that has suppressed and repressed sunni. that's the assad regime. majorve a number of clerics across the world that have issued religious edicts for people to go fight in syria. there is been religious justification to. as current action in syria president assad just won reelection. you still have fighting against rebel groups. does that pay into -- does that play into the rise of these groups? guest: it does. assad remains in power, i would say if you were to weigh the balance of the war right now, of the offensive actions by the syrian government -- the assad

regime is roughly winning. jihadist are on the offensive -- the defense of right now. it may indicate a weakening of this area as a jihadist battlefield. serious not so clear. host: first call is from leo, bronx, new york. democrat line. c-span,i had seen on michael sawyer, a retired cia analyst. he said that saudi arabia is funding jihadist groups in pakistan. in the most extreme bottomless groups around the world. if saudi arabia is our ally, and these groups are attacking allied forces in afghanistan, how we get out of this dilemma? guest: that's a good question. i would differentiate saudi government from individuals --

not just in saudi arabia but in the persian gulf and other locations, that have provided assistance to some of these salafi-jihadist groups. saudi arabia has faced a pretty serious threat from al qaeda throughout the 2000. attacks on the peninsula. the saudi government has been the focus of a lot of violence including any mm. -- in yemen. wealthy individuals in saudi arabia are providing assistance. that i think means better efforts by our treasury department, and other u.s. agencies, in trying to stop the flow of funds to jihadist groups. host: what exactly do jihadist want? guest: that's a great question. it depends on which group we are talking about. we found a lot of variation. virtually all of these organizations want to extend bush aced the extreme -- want to

establish extreme islamic climate. they differ quite a bit though, someone to be part of a broader global organization. someone to kill civilians, particularly non-muslims. it depends on who we are talking about. the al qaeda individuals, particularly their leader, ayman al-zawahiri, seem to have a global view. but we have a lot of differences in what these groups want. some are very parochial. host: how is recruitment done? guest: it can be done in a range of ways. one of the more interesting ways we have seen crewmen involved is through social media. virtually every single salafi-jihadist group we looked at is on twitter.

has a twitter account. actually, has multiple twitter accounts. they are on facebook. they post videos, including the groups like those in syria post videos on youtube. they are present on social media, that is part of the way they are either recruiting individuals to come into the organization, or at least trying to inspire them. host: that means a lot of younger individuals being recruited, or is the age agnostic? ofst: the vast majority people who appear to be recruited and moving from simply radicalize to violence do appear to be on the underside. but we see people radicalize that are older as well. host: brian up next from iowa, independents line. caller: good morning mr. jones. -- good morning, mr. jones. administrationma

came into power with the arab spring, and former secretary of there,linton being in sideways. went i think the cia controls these networks. an arm of the cia, it's all due to oil, and that is my opinion. can you respond to that? guest: if you look at the flow of jihadist groups in number, size, number of attacks over the past several years -- they have come in waves. we see a notable increase over the past three or four years now, but we did see -- that has been in part cents the last election. -- since the last election. we saw big jump by the war in iraq. big jump0 4, 2005, a

because of the war in iraq. butjust because of cia, these groups get their funding from several sources. we talked about golf assistance earlier, they get it from areas they control and tax. the opposite, the cia has been targeted in places like afghanistan. -- attack thect cia and other organizations. they are doing everything in their power to stop these organizations. i have a statement first, and then a question. i wanted to say that first of all, i was passionately against the war in iraq. several times, and basically said that if the united states attacked iraq, we would be bringing death, destruction, and chaos to that country. it would cause the spread of terrorism throughout the islamic world.

it would be seen as an attack on islam. they came to pass, and even worse than what i had thought. when i had people obsessing about five men being released from guantánamo, i wonder why isn't more said about the deep and far-reaching impact of our attacking iraq? i watched how they showed one of the channels busloads of foreign fighters among and from other countries. we are going to fight the americans. and when they had that uprising 2005,nce, in october of it exploded across the scene, now we are going to iraq to fight the americans. i think the war in iraq did more to spread terrorism throughout the world than anything else. i would like your comment on that please. guest: a couple of points. i would just highlight that these jihadist groups, including al qaeda, have been in

existence since the late 1980's. even well before the war in iraq, we saw these kinds of organizations conducting attacks against u.s. embassies in africa. obviously, based out of afghanistan. the cells the germinated were attacked -- were then attacking 9/11. these organizations were intent on striking the u.s. homeland, u.s. interests overseas. i have written about this in my most recent trade book, hunting the shadows. -- war in iraq didn't fear did appear to increase radicalization and most hilarious. it contributed to those individuals involved in the london bombings in 2005 and 2006, the transatlantic plotters. it inspired others. warner rock did appear -- the war in iraq did appear to

contribute, but it was not the only factor. al qaeda in iraq were seriously weekend in 2008. we have seen other battlefields in syria that have now taken over iraq as important jihadist fronts. host: this is max, baton rouge, louisiana. independents line. caller: steven found out about a ship that went turkey, with a boatload of weapons that they had put on their. from benghazi. someone told them that they were fighting for these weapons between the syrian free army and al qaeda. and al qaeda won control of the arms. housents went to the intelligence committee, and had a closed meeting with them.

[indiscernible] an hour later, he was hit. i was just wondering, did somebody in the house committee tell somebody like clinton that he was objecting to them selling -- giving weapons to al qaeda? guest: i don't know the specifics of what you are referring to. i would say more broadly, two points. libya in general has been a source of weapons. the overthrow of the gaddafi regime allowed a number of jihadist groups to get access two weapons caches, small arms, in some cases larger amount of warmth. there were concerns about chemical weapons as well. libya recently, a lot of those groups have increasingly taken control of parts of cities like benghazi.

in addition, we see flows of those weapons from libya into places like syria. the exact areas you are talking about. lines, point along these it has become clear over time that a number of these jihadist groups were involved in the death of ambassador stephens. groups like sharia in libya. qaeda all of all -- all involved in that attack at the operative level. a number of these groups do present at least a threat to the u.s. in the regions where they are operating. host: we are they getting -- where are they getting their money and weapons? guest: a lot of these groups are involved in both illicit and legal operations. smuggling is a source of

entrepreneurial business revenue. they tax the local populations, they control roadways. if you are driving a truck, you have to get through a checkpoint and pay a bribe. third, kidnapping. we have seen it with the boko haram schoolgirls in nigeria. this is not -- this should not be surprising. as is how a lot of these groups make millions of dollars, kidnapping and getting these prisoners released. individuals from places like the persian gulf providing assistance. host: there's a story in the new york times talking about the state department backing a nigerian television station to provide soft policy to that part of the world. the state department is expected to finance the channel for two years. what you think about this approach? guest: i have talked to some people involved, my view is this a war of ideas between extremism and moderation. i believe it is useful to push

back against the extremist views of jihadist groups, like boko haram. the challenges, something that is so overtly identified as being the u.s. government may actually be counterproductive. it may cause people to question the objectivity in places like nigeria. everybody is going to know that this television station is at least partially funded by the state department. i wonder how objectively it will be viewed, how many people watch. host: are these programs in other parts of the world, when it comes to what is out there? guest: that is my understanding. it will be dealing with nigerian seems, it will be dealing with nigerian issues in local language. it will be geared towards a very specific audience. being associated directly with the united states government has some benefits. it also has some downsides. host: mario from connecticut. democrat line.

caller: i have two points. first point, companies like exxon mobil, they go into countries like africa -- disrupt communities, cause damages, and they bury their damages. they don't accept responsibility. rubes like this are -- groups like this are fermented out of that framework. second point, actually a question. ,sn't it true that bush senior according to the factoids on the internet, bush senior funded terrorism? the al qaeda when they fought against the russians? guest: on the question of which , by far- bush senior the best book on this is ghost wars. arguesok unequivocally

based on massive amounts of research that the u.s. government, including the cia, did provide assistance to afghan fighters through pakistan's intelligence service. but he did not fund the mind appears to be no evidence it has funded, the foreign fighters. particularly individuals like osama bin laden. gulf points-- thomas it does appear to be the case more recently that it is less these companies themselves, and more the weakening of governance caused by the arab uprising. in libya, one example. the qaddafi regime falls, and in its place we get a very weak central government that has challenges controlling law and order in major cities. that leaves a vacuum in place in libya that a lot of these groups have used for providing century. guest: presidential election currently going on in

afghanistan, what is the future under its new leadership? seemsnow, abdul abdullah to be the leading candidate right now, and could possibly emerge as the new president. upside -- he, he survived an assassination attempt. it looks like for the moment, afghanistan has made it through an election process and the first major chamber president, and done a pretty well. the election so far has been with minimal violence. most afghans so far came out to vote. larger numbers than in 2009. the future of this country actually looks better than it did a few years ago, with the caveat that the u.s. departure by 2016 does add serious risk. host: such as? guest: such as insurgents --ups, primarily the taliban

they are based on a pakistan. that is where its sanctuaries are. the government or by the limited assistance to some of these insurgent groups. with the u.s. removal from afghanistan, at least for military forces, what it may do is provide some incentive an additional power to some of these insurgent groups. will theyto watch is, control more ground over the course of 2015, 2016, 2017. if they do, al qaeda oh would be able to use this territory to attack the u.s.. jihadist camp coming up in afghanistan or pakistan? guest: what do you think about the prisoner exchange story? support inuld always general any american soldier coming home. i think it is great for his family, i think it is great for his town.

i think it is great for the united states. the way this happened, i would question to some degree. there is debate about the wisdom of trading five seat -- senior-level taliban. aree of them in particular quite senior. it is very clear over the next year, the a role in the taliban will be limited. after year, we will see. there are other issues that need to be looked at very carefully. i was in afghanistan with u.s. special operations command in 2009. conditionsing at the about his departure from his base -- did he desert, did he leave, and what should the military do about that? military needs to look very carefully at this case, and figure out what they want to do. it is wonderful we have an american back. host: do you think that assurances could be made to the point that the five that were released don't get put back into terrorist activity? guest: i think it is easier to

do in the next six months to 12 months. after that, i think a lot of editing is possible. fromve seen individuals guantanamo bay be released. in that case, he was released to the afghan government, then put in prison for a. period of time. when he was able to go back into afghanistan, he moved into pakistan and became the head of the taliban's military committee and one of the highest-ranking individuals. several of these individuals that that kind of category. host: here is ronnie, from alabama. he is on our republican line. taller: isn't it true tha jihadist groups have increased because of obama's weakness around the world? i would say there are a couple of factors that we looked at in this report that rick reis

-- that increased jihadist activity. one of them was the era uprising -- the arab uprising, that we get a number of governments. egypt from a. of time, yemen that has seen difficulties. has nothing to do with the u.s., but their weakening governments. second is we have seen a number of battlefields like libya and iraq. and even afghanistan, individuals that have been trained in these locations and moved to to places like syria and libya are right now. so the transnational movement of foreign fighters appears to be another factor that is exhibiting. -- contributing. could the u.s. government have dealt more specifically with some of these organizations, these jihadist groups? conducted training in countries like libya?

perhaps. i don't think it has been the major point. i don't think the u.s. would have faced a very serious problem from collapsed governments in the middle east. host: robert up next, joining us from indiana on our independents line. caller: i just wanted to say i feel like a lot of these jihadist groups are rising from our committee in the middle east. [indiscernible] activity hask our potentially contributed to it. numbersargue that large of americans deployed is generally unhelpful, counterproductive in creating this sort of rally around the flag effect. creating an easier

time for these jihadist groups to paint the u.s. as a foreign occupier. i think where we are fighting the u.s. is better posture to overseas is having a small presence, law enforcement, state department, intelligence, special operations. like theganizations national development can help deal with rude causes. causes. we need a presence that is not advertised. the cases we have had of large presence is not helpful. in those cases, the u.s. has hurt its case rather than helped it. host: reuters had a story taking look at responses to countered terrorism.

guest: i think there is no question we need partners to fight alongside us. the challenges severalfold. some governments are better able to do this than others. countries like yemen have struggled to fight against al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. nigeria struggles in northeastern parts. allies are useful, but that's not in and of itself an answer. some governments are more capable than others. if we were to get an attack against the u.s. homeland from some of these groups operating in a specific country, it would be a lot of explanation government officials would have to make to the american public about why it did not do more to target these groups were trying to kill americans in the u.s. homeland.

i think there are locations where we see act of plotting. the u.s. needs to take steps to deal with individuals, including capturing them. evenn some cases, thinking more about individuals were plotting attacks against the u.s. homeland. host: the president laid out a $5 billion counterterrorism program. putting money behind building these partnerships, and he thoughts on that? guest: we are waiting to see what the specifics are of the plan. it is not entirely clear to me which government agencies it is going to. which programs it is going to fund. the big challenge with the ending of the wars in iraq and afghanistan is a lot of funding has gone to fight terrorist groups through congressional yearly funding. overseas contingency funding. that will likely end. moneys may boost as that

comes down to deal with counterterrorism. at this point, it is unclear what that is going to be used for. i would just reinforce a point i made earlier, but this has to be more than military and civilian efforts. it also has to deal with this war of ideas. host: massachusetts is where steve is, go ahead. really helping to create islamic terrorism over the world? who can forget in the 1970's and , people going over there and praying with what became al qaeda because of the soviet incursion. to fight the soviets. the cia was involved in that. so when the united states wages a secularist jihad against iraq, iran, and other islamic countries -- is that anyone are that we see blowback? guest: i think again, the u.s. overade it some mistakes

the past several decades. -- again i would say that the facts indicate that these jihadist groups, particularly al qaeda, was funded by bin laden's own fortune and wealthy ghost -- gulf donors. they were willing to attack the united states with no u.s. presence in afghanistan, no u.s. presence in pakistan, limited u.s. presence in other areas of the middle east. but even if a lot of these steps had been taken, these groups still would have attacked the u.s. and other western places the cause our vision of freedom and democracy and our religious views are different. head of-zawahiri, the al qaeda, has said that the

markers he is deeply problematic, and he will fight against it. it goes against religion being the guiding principle of the state. these groups are going to be opposed to the u.s. regardless of what the u.s. does overseas. host: our guest is seth jones from rand corporation, this is jim it from florida. caller: good morning. i had a couple of things i wanted to say. you had an earlier caller mention funding from the u.s. government. war, theseafghan tribal warlords were actually in place to protect the heroin crops. i just read a great book, charlie wilson's war. it talks about how he was a congressman and ended up on the defense appropriations committee. he single-handedly through the cia, in conduction with them, provided all kinds of weapons. is aboution i had

syria. i have not become friends with, but i have met a lot of syrians here in the united states. almost every one of them speaks highly of assad. they say he is a good man, a christian man. he takes care of his people. they may be from the upper classes but i don't understand -- it is paradoxical about what we hear on the news. guest: sure. those are good comments. on afghanistan, i would just highlight that the u.s. assistance, including that supported by charlie wilson -- that was a good movie, not just a book. that went to the afghan fighters. afghans, and rituals or fighting the soviet union in afghanistan.

individuals like bin laden were based largely on pakistan, they were small in number, and received literally none of the funding that the u.s. pakistan saudi's and others were providing. i think it is important to distinguish between those kinds of organizations. it is a competent picture. issue, there are a range of views among and rituals within syria. within syria. sunnis have risen up against assad. he is particularly unpopular with sunnis, which are a majority of the population in syria. again, i'm just highlighting there are various views. it is probably worth noting that the bigger state picture wisteria right now is the assad government has direct assistance from iran. reportedly been

supporting them. they have some western companies -- countries to. that it looks like the assad governments is winning right now. i don't know if that is because of popularity or because it has gotten more military power. you mentioned hezbollah, they sent a message to the united states regarding syria. to be ad states wants part of the solution, they will have to stop supporting the rebels. guest: hezbollah is fighting on the side of the assad government, of course it is going to say that. it wants to win. it is winning right now in a war that has gone back and forth. the bigger point is, as itricans -- if aid stopped,

wouldn't make much of a difference. it is so limited. the bulk of foreign support two rebel groups in syria are coming from neighboring states like turkey and jordan. and from the persian gulf. those of the big backers. what the u.s. does or doesn't do -- they will not change the direction of the war. the u.s. could stop all of its funding and i don't think you would see any difference on the battlefield. host: seth jones from the rand corporation, thanks for your time. next wednesday they will be a hearing with chuck hagel about the prison or exchange before the house armed services committee. you can see that live on wednesday. that starts at 10:00. , and newr joining us edition comes to you tomorrow at 7:00. we will see then. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] ♪

relevant -- they look at the results at the european union relaxed and -- election, and what it could mean for the european union. the treasury department's role in national security affairs. >> c-span's new book sundays at eight includes gretchen mortenson. >> what role should the government play in how we finance? if you want to subsidize housing in this country, and we want to talk about it in the populace agrees, it's something we should subsidize, then put on the balance sheet. make it clear. make it evident. make everyone aware of how much it is costing.

when you deliver it through third-party enterprises, when you deliver the subsidies through a public company with private shareholders and executives who can extract a lot of that subsidy for themselves, that is not a very good way of subsidizing homeownership. >> read more of our conversation with gretchen morgenstern and other featured interviews from our booknotes and q&a programs. >> the a discussion on russian politics. the featured speaker is the only russian lawmaker to vote against the annexation of crimea. he talked about what led to his decision and how the situation in ukraine is being framed by vladimir putin. this is little more than one hour.