later, new york times senior economics correspondent on this weeks federal reserve meeting. ♪ while president obama continues to weigh his options in iraq, u.s. military leaders are warning of the difficulties connecting airstrikes against the militant uprising. congress continues to debate whether the benghazi suspect should be tried in a civil court or sent to guantánamo bay. only 7% of americans say they have a great deal of confidence in congress. 10% in 2013. good morning, everyone. we will kick off today's show

with open phones. he can call in now on any public policy issue. republicans, (202) 585-3881. democrats, (202) 585-3880. independents and all others, (202) 585-3882. .oin us on social media twitter, facebook and e-mail. front page of the washington post this morning is that the usc'sadministration -- risk in iraq hqi airstrikes. a bombing campaign would be fraught with complications and that iraq's political divisions need to be addressed first.

obama told them he was still reviewing his options but that he was primarily considering ways to bolster assistance for iraq's security forces. same time, obama told them he would not seek congress's formal approval should he decided that military force is necessary. military leaders were up on capitol hill yesterday. chuck hagel and general dempsey testifying over on the senate side. askedr coats from indiana the defense secretary if it was too late for the u.s. to regain what has been lost in iraq. >> you think it's too late? we lost blood and treasure and people lost limbs and died to save the cities. we've already lost it. it's like crimea. >> we did not lose anything.

the iraqi government -- >> in the national interest, we lost something. we turned a pretty tonificant situation over the iraqi people when we faced out of our military involvement in iraq. we have done everything we could to help them. it's up to them. they wanted to manage and govern their own country. i don't think we should assign the blame to the united states for this. we go back to who is responsible for this. this current government in iraq has never fulfilled the commitments it made to bring a gether.overnment to th

we have worked hard with them within the confines of our ability to help them do that. we can't dictate to them. host: chuck hagel up on capitol hill yesterday. take a look at the front page of the wall street journal. malikis signaling iraq's should go. ." the u.s. administration is indicating it wants iraq's political parties to form a new ikiernment without mr. mal as he tries to assemble a ruling coalition following elections this past april.

the story continues on -- the chairwoman of the senate intelligence committee, diane feinstein, told a congressional hearing yesterday that the miliki government has to go -- maliki government has to go. what are your thoughts? bertha in florida. democratic caller. caller: good morning. republicansts and understand -- what happens in this country is going to affect everybody. we know that the problem is that bush started this war and they have the prejudice to blame the president instead of admitting

what we should have never gone there. this is a tribal country. we will never solve their problems. our air, landtect and sea. host: in your opinion, we should do nothing? caller: we should protect our american people in baghdad. veterans thatany are out of work. of not make them part homeland security to protect our air, land and sea? we don't need to be in another country to protect this country. we have spent too much money, too many lives. we need to come home and protect our country. take a look at the reaction up on capitol hill on twitter yesterday. theator rand paul -- " president is wrong and i will oppose him. he needs to come to congress."

menendez -- "we must consider our national security interests in deciding how we s."nter isi bernie sanders -- "as someone who voted against military action in iraq and the first place, i remain opposed to sending u.s. troops back into iraq." come talking about the bush officials who have been in the press recently. "the only thing i want to hear from iraq war architects is an apology." john boehner said both congress and the pentagon have warned the president for months about the worsening situation in iraq. and water, maryland. independent caller. it's like the hypocrisy

of politicians -- when the social security crisis in the middle east and the arab spring's happened and all of these dictators fell and people rebels needed to arm the -- the government of syria is fighting terrorists, too. here we are with these terrorists running wild after we topple iraq and the whole middle east is divided this way and --t way and everybody keeps if we would have gotten involved again, it would probably be worse. syria, whose to say that wouldn't have been just as bad as iraq, if not

worse? host: what do you think should be done? i don't have a whole lot of ideas about it. to take care of our own house in stopping so hypocritical about every little thing. if it doesn't conform to what we think -- we need to start looking at ourselves and stop looking around the world and take care of our own house first. go to tina in mississippi. republican caller. i would just like to remind all the democrats out -- i am so sick and tired of hearing them blame everything on bush. i would like to remind them that the congress, the democratic

congress at that time ok'd and passed the bill for us to go to war. you are president just goes ahead and does whatever he wants without the congress's approval. it is getting old. you are making your own president look inept because you -- when are you going to get over this love of the president? he is just a man. it is sickening to hear you keep fault."s bush's a president has to be responsible when he is in office no matter what took place in the past. come on, people. grow up. on your point about the president seeking congressional authority, here is usa today. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell met with the president yesterday told reporters that obama said that he did not feel

he had any need for congressional authority for steps he might take. a few paragraphs down, administration officials will conduct closed-door briefings on iraq today with senators on the foreign relations and armed services committees. administration officials were up on capitol hill yesterday with house armed services and foreign affairs committees. raising iraq's disaster designation to top level. the emergency distinction, which is rarely assigned, underscores

how critical the crisis has become. that from the washington post this morning. unicef has raised their disaster designation to its top-level. democratic caller. go ahead. i'm calling in response to the young lady from mississippi. this is george bush's debacle. i'm a retired rain. -- i'm a retired rain. we never should have gotten involved in iraq in the first place. retired marine.

congress never would cooperate with obama. host: general petraeus has speech.london giving a the telegraph as this video of what he had to say on the situation in iraq. [video clip] >> there has to be a huge idea here and it has to be, if there is to be support for iraq, it has to be support for a government of iraq. a government of all the people and is representative of and responsive to all elements of iraq. president obama has been quite clear on this. this cannot be the united states being the air force for shia arabias or a shia on sunni fight. has to be a fight of all of iraq against extremists who happened to be sunni arabs.

extremists that are wreaking havoc on a country that really had an enormous opportunity back in 2011. has made progress in certain areas, but has certainly not capitalized on that enormous opportunity in the way we hoped. there has to be this outreach. there has to be a government that is trusted by all elements of society. , itmerica is to support would be in support of a governor against extremists. host: david petraeus in london yesterday. counterinsurgency strategy for the united states back in 2007 during the search. some thoughts on twitter this morning. "we need an investigation into the motives for mass immigration that never came from our majority or now under threat." ratingss's favorability

at 7%? shame." who says, "all of this could have happened before isis hit the border." "who are we to tell them how to run their country?" ethan in alabama. democratic caller. i want torst of all, tell you that i am a vietnam veteran. when president obama first e in office, the ba was already messed up. as soon as they got on the right track to catch up, the republicans shut down the government. when the government was shut work.the v.a. did not they went back to work and they

work for one year and it was about to catch up again and the republicans shut down the government again. when they shut the government down the second time, that put the v.a. back in trouble again. as soon as they do all this and get the v.a. all messed up, then you try to put it on president obama when the republicans were the ones who caused the v.a. to have such a big backlog. twitter -- the debate is still raging on in congress over what to do about this captured benghazi suspect who is on a u.s. ship on his way to the united states from libya. "the terrorist who led the killed fourack that americans belongs in gitmo." adam schiff who serves on the intelligence committee saying, "

the west criminal courts have proven far more successful in prosecuting terrorism suspects than the military tribunals at gitmo." story, it says the fbi interrogators probably acting in part under a public safety exception have not yet informed him of his miranda rights to silence and an attorney.

this stems from a 1984 case in which the supreme court ruled that law enforcement can engage limited unwarranted interrogation. a little background for you about this debate. about abu khattala. taking place on the opinion page of usa today. puts thehazi suspect focus where it belongs. this is what they say about punishment. republicans are already attacking the ministration for -- the administration for to try him as a criminal in a civilian court.

ed royce, the chairman of the foreign affairs committee writes the opposing view. he says i'm "don't grant legal rights to abu khattala." we go to charles in huntington wes, west virginia. we should not have been in iraq in the first place. we have to get every american out of their. how can we protect the country when we can't even protect our own borders here in the united states with all the illegals coming across? i just believe we've got too many problems at home. host: so do nothing about the situation there? caller: should pull every

american out of there. if they want freedom, they will fight for it. host: rick in iowa. republican caller. caller: good morning. a look at history and what we can learn from that. if we forget history, we will repeat it. remember back why we were in iraq or afghanistan. we had two planes that flew into our building here on american peopleilling 3000 of our . they were all americans. like all you people calling in saying "i served in the military." if we serve in the military, we serve the united states of america. that means all the way from minnesota down to texas.

let's not forget history and why we are there. we can't allow people to fly airplanes into our buildings, killing innocent people. the people who flew into our buildings, they are not here. we have to go over there and let them know that you are not going to continue to fly into our buildings. let's learn from history and not let it repeat itself and not continue what we are doing right now. to be ignorant. let's be an educated people and make educated decisions and do not repeat history. host: what do you think should be done? one, uphold the constitution. number two, all procedures have been put in place by our

forefathers to make sure that we are not making critical mistakes in our government. number three, become united. united we stand. divided we will fall. if we don't get things straightened out, we will become a third world nation. that was rick in iowa. republican caller. -- latermestic side this afternoon, on capitol hill, the republican conference will be meeting behind closed doors to elect their number two. to replacey leader eric cantor after he lost the primary race. and their number three, the majority whip. this is the washington times

with the headline that the majority leader long shot looks to shake things up. the number twoor spot signals unrest in gop. labradorpicture of rob . he was building momentum as vote watchers say he does not stand a chance against kevin mccarthy. he is seeking the promotion to the number two post. we will talk about this race and secret ballot coming up here in 10 minutes or so. to find out how this all happens and what you should be watching for. also on capitol hill, yesterday, this is the money section of usa today -- gm's ceo was back up their. congress told her that gm is not fixed yet. the general motors aceto -- the general motors

that they haded to handle a complex safety issue. "it looks like a lot more than 15 people should have been terminated. ." we covered that hearing. if you missed it, go to our website, www.c-span.org. the detroit free press out of michigan, gm's headquarters, "reporte the headline, ignitions doubted."

another story that many of you have probably heard about. a panel here in washington has canceled the trademark for the redskins name. impaction, which would six different trademarks, does not have any immediate effect cormorant nor does it barred the team from using the name. it allows federal court review of the t decision. declined to comment on the development after wednesday's meeting. the trademark attorney for the team said that they would appeal the decision. even with the team were to lose an appeal, the loss of the federal trademark is more a symbolic blow that a fatal one. the redskins trademarks would still be protected under common law and the team will be able to pursue legal action against anyone who used the logo or name without permission. the washington times does go on team'sthis -- if the

inability to protect the trademark and logo were to result in a revenue loss, the effects would be felt across the entire league thanks to profit-sharing agreements. l theirms poo merchandising revenue and then divide it. might feels compelled to pressure mr. snyder to address the situation. in new york. democratic caller. sound like ae to broken democrat record, but i believe bush, cheney and rumsfeld are to blame for the downfall of iraq. broke iraq.ons they broke it. murderer, ain, a tyrant, no question, but he kept

order in that country. asset.he was a u.s. perhaps this even applies to the president of syria. host: why do you say he was a u.s. asset? caller: he kept order in a are -- we could not bring -- we spent $1 trillion and, in a matter of on ford f1ch of bugs 50 pickup trucks with machine guns mounted rolled in and we spent trillions and they had a couple of used trucks with machine guns mounted and took over city after city. after 9/11, the democrats got behind george bush.

look at the way the republicans have beaten down obama since the beginning of his presidency. you what me show speaker john boehner had to say yesterday in the capital. [video clip] >> the government of iraq clearly is not the most effective government. in terms ofnges understanding how a free society -- having saidt that, it is nothing new. the president has been watching what we have been watching for over a year. the situation in iraq continues to be undermined. yet, nothing has happened to try to reverse it. host: the speaker of the house before he met with the president. the white house yesterday afternoon where the president said he was still weighing his

options about what to do in iraq. the chicago tribune this morning as a piece about obama's thinking on iraq. below the fold in the newspaper. kathleen hennessey reports --

a little bit in the chicago tribune. thinking going on in the white house over iraq. meanwhile, the financial times isorting that maliki fighting to survive. his rivals are seeking to topple him. onstruck a defiant tone state television comic using foreign powers of colluding with members of the late saddam hussein's party to take control of the second-largest city and unge the country into civil war. "it would only push them even closer to iran." william in north carolina.

independent caller. caller: hello. good morning to you. say, as itwanting to was written and as it was separation -- you whileve devolved following false knowledge. when god almighty sends his death angels to extract the living spirit from all of these false worshipers, these ministries, these governments and these religions, then come willose of us were left replenish what you all have destroyed in the last 150 years. host: jim from south carolina. republican caller. caller: good morning. for the democratic caller's, you should lay on your screen

somewhere a running clock that shows how long george bush has been out of office. they would help them out. when it comes to the v.a. problems, the democrats give obama a free pass. he has been beefing up government bureaucracy for five years, making it harder to fire them and were doing everything -- he is making it worse. obama is trying to make everything harder to address what is lacking in the government worker system. yet, the democrats want to act like he has not been in power for five years. what is it he does in the white house? , we shoulds to iraq not have gone in, but you can't

say -- he took the job five years ago knowing it was a mess. he has to be held responsible for how he is managing it. host: we will be talking to two members of congress about this situation. the ranking democrat on the foreign affairs committee. all of that coming up here. on the redskins issue, a couple more pieces to share with you. the editorial paper, the thatngton post weighing in the u.s. patent and trademark office's announcement wednesday that it was canceling the redskinsa washington trademark is a victory for tolerance. slurs don't deserve trademark protection. weighing in on the trademark protection agency's decision

here in washington. we go to tricia in indiana. go ahead. independent caller. --ler: i had a comment something said earlier stuck in a nerve with me. a man called in from iowa stating that the reason we were in iraq was because of the attack on the wind towers -- twin towers. that was done by afghanistan. whotaliban in afghanistan we were going to take care of, but then we turned around and oft back to iraq because "weapons of mass destruction" that they had. was awe later found out false accusation. those weapons do not exist. i'm very concerned that, even in our recent history, we are getting confused.

they are, are the way even in our recent past. we need to be very careful about that. understand what has gone on and why we are doing the things we're doing. i just don't understand going back into iraq. we are not going to change -- people were saying we are going to change hearts and minds there. we will not change anyone's bombsor mind with guns or or military force. that is not how you change people's hearts and minds. host: from the houston chronicle, the headline, "to texans charged with supporting -- two texans charged with supporting terrorists."

that coming out of the houston chronicle. also in the washington times this morning, a story that many of you follow on fast and furious, the program from the justice department. i suspect is in u.s. custody, coming from mexico in the . now at our news desk is the house leadership reporter with the national journal. here to talk to us about this election coming up on capitol hill. who is runningh for what position. the first will be forst a

the majority leader's position, which is being vacated by eric cantor. that race is between two members, kevin mccarthy is the current majority whip, seeking to jump up to the number two spot. he has a professional vote counting operation. roll labrador is from idaho. he is attempting to tap into the that is running rampant in the gop these days. he is making the case that he will transform the policymaking process from a top-down approach to a bottom-up approach. convince apting to lot of the new lawmakers that he will be their voice and get them more involved in the process. it's a good message. he stands very little chance of defeating mr. mccarthy.

if kevin mccarthy wins the first sense to thea majority leader's post, then there will be a second election to replace mccarthy as majority whip. that is a three horse race. alise, peter roskam and marlin stutzman. mr. scully's wins the outright majority of votes on the ballot, it will be a head to head matchup on the second ballot. i think his supporters are confident that they can and will win out right on this first ballot. i spent time with him last night in his office and he was

planning to be up until 2:00 a.m. making calls. he had the look in his eye of a guy who thought they were right on the cusp of getting to that magic number of either 116 or 117. it remains to be seen. has his way,ise it will be a clean victory and he will be the new house majority whip. if it goes to a second ballot, anything can happen. the significance of having a red state republican leadership? guest: the lack of a red state presence has been a source of tension within the house republican conference. a bit of a sore spot for the conservative members were arrived in this massive wave in 2010. many more who arrived in 2012. they feel they are ideologically underrepresented in the uppermost echelons, but also

geographically underrepresented. that has been the case that steve scully's has been making. not only am i a proven conservative, someone who chairs this 170 member organization which has been the conservative part b of the gop -- conservative heartbeat. with the goal state guys regularly. he says, look, not only do i bring these conservative ideas to the table, but i also understand these geographical concerns that many of our members of the house gop have. he wants to be there boys as well. that is an effective argument he has been able to make. i think that is why he finds himself heading into this contest as the front-runner. when describe for viewers

and where these elections take place. guest: there is a fabled meeting room in the basement of the house capital. onee are usually at least big meeting a week. there can be multiple meetings per day during times like these. members will gather behind closed doors, sometimes with a staff member or two. when they get behind closed doors am a that is where the balloting will take place. chairwoman will take a roll call in alphabetical order. labrador's name is red, ead, his supporters will read speeches.

the chairwoman will continue with the roll call and when they get to mr. mccarthy's name, the same process will repeat itself. somebody will stand to deliver a nominating speech for mr. mccarthy and there will be two seconding speeches. the house republicans leadership will hand out a ballot to every single voting member and that will be a blank ballot and that member will have to write in their choice. either labrador or mccarthy. the votes will be tallied by a handful of tally clerks who are members of the house republican conference with not been publicly supporting one candidate or another. they will double check the other tallies. once that tally is complete, she will share with the conference who the winner is. at that point, whoever emerges victorious will have the

opportunity to address the conference as the new house majority leader. the entire process will repeat itself if the whips races 's race is necessary. it's a secret ballot. that's what makes the whip's race so intriguing. each member claims to have a rough number of commitments. it is impossible to know how ironclad commitment is. it's not like a vote on the house floor where the house clerk will register each and every vote. this is a secret ballot. there is zero accountability for these votes. a lot of members could be telling multiple candidates the same thing. there is no way of really knowing. host: you have the current whip whose job is to be able to count

votes and predict how many votes they have. has a good solid 100 votes. you have these other three vying for that job. if they don't have the votes they predicted, what does that say? guest: that's a great point. one of the candidates, the chief told his colleagues, if i can't get enough votes to win this election on thursday, i don't deserve to be the whip. that is a pretty candid and refreshing take on this. this is a difficult process and it's conducted almost entirely behind closed doors. it's virtually impossible to know how many of these supposedly ironclad commitments are really ironclad. i do think this is a great exercise for all three of these gentlemen. up to of these guys are

the task of stepping into the -- the whip's office, this is the next one exercise -- an excellent exercise to see if they are up for the job. host: will we be able to see tweets coming out of the room? our members allowed to have re?ir phones in the guest: you will see tweets from reporters who are camped outside of the room. fallsg for any crumb that off the table. hopefully we might get a text message or two from a member in the room or a leadership official who is overseeing the proceedings. you should be following the great capitol hill reporters on twitter. if you are looking for capitol hill reporters, go to ar twitter page and we have

list of where you can find the congressional reporters and what they are reporting on. we appreciate you coming in and talking to us about this. guest: thank you for having me. will get two perspectives on how the west should respond to the instability in iraq. scott perry joins us next. later, we talk with eliot engel. we will be right back. ♪ >> the thesis of the book is

that there is a whole group of people in america that is being ignored, left behind, not included in the discussion. for either party. particularly the republican party. i called it the color conservatives. the folks out there who are working people, most of whom don't have college degrees. folks that really still understand the value of work and the importance of work and responsibility. who understand the importance of family and faith. i believe in freedom and love limited government. those are conservative republican voters. in many cases, they are not. a lot of them are not voting at all because they don't really see either party talking to them about the concerns they have and try to create an opportunity for them to live the american dream. argues thatorum

working americans have been abandoned by both parties and offers conservative answers to their problems. saturday night at 10:00 p.m. discussing "the forgotten man." start reading and join others to discuss the book in our chat room at otb.org. -- at book tv.org. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back with scott perry, republican of pennsylvania who sits on the homeland security committee. thank you for coming here and talking to our viewers. let's begin with what we are hearing from the military up on capitol hill yesterday. and general dempsey saying it's couple kid. -- it is fraught with complications. guest: it is fraught with

complications. i'm a helicopter pilot. things up in the air can end up on the ground very quickly and that really complicates the issue. even our technology, if one of the drones were to end up on the ground -- we saw that happen in iran and they got the technology is compromised.e from ic the tragedy for many of us who served in countries is, how are we at this place when so many of us saw it coming? let's do something before this occurs. have.secure the gains we now, it looks like that is all for nothing. 4500 souls gone. their sacrifice for the person next to them is meaningful. it absolutely appropriate. but, for the greater

mission of securing that region and the world, all gone, like that. host: who is to blame? guest: there has been a lot of mistakes made. for me, the president had opportunities here. we should have had a status agreement and say that maliki was nonresponsive. karzai has been nonresponsive but we have been able to work through that. iki would not have had a country to lead if not for us. we were in a position to do something about that. let's say we cannot get the status forces agreement done. we have seen this slow march of

isis, cross. work through falluja. we have seen this violence escalate since 2009. sit back attitude. you can't have it. host: should those minimum terms apply now before the united states goes back in with any sort of military airstrikes or otherwise? guest: the united states has to be protected. if he wants the united states in any shape or form, we are in a place to dictate forms. and unwillingable to put a coalition together to make sure this does not happen. that was a given and that was onerstood and that is of the major reasons the united states should have maintained a presence in iraq. to make sure the pressure was to secure the games america wanted and paid for and

that the world was relying on. we walked away and let him do that on his own and he was unprepared and unwilling. when the united states went in in 2003, part of the demand was to set up a democratic government. they did so. maliki was democratically elected. can we say now, you have to go? guest: he can't say no. we are not in a position from where we are to force anybody to do anything. we were in a position at some point. we have lost that standing. practically speaking, we can get with partners around the world put the pressure on because we that he understands that his approach has not worked. nothing will change at this point. he has lost the confidence of the people that he leads. host: what is worse? or theia led government

sunni led government by saddam hussein? will: unfortunately, we have to let it play out to know which one is worse. they are both obviously bad. one that is potentially contained by be better. hen if saddam hussein -- gassed his own people and used weapons of mass destruction against his own people. he is no better. that cannot be accepted and abided either. folks,urrent group of we know what we will get with them. can't put up a wall around the country and contain them in their. -- in there.

americans have to get our brains wrapped around the fact that we will have to deal with this whether we like to or not. host: one administration official on the ground in iraq voted this morning, "if you push too hard on this issue, you will push them right into the arms of iran." has a fairink that amount of merit. however, if we stand back and do -- if youe will allow are the insurgents -- they understand real politics and combat. all they have to do is surround the city of baghdad and weight. host: remind our viewers of when you served. guest: in 2009, i served as the task force commander of 800 and souls.

i flew missions myself with the folks out there. host: you were part of the national guard. guest: yes. i am. host: could you be called again? guest: yes. i just got moved to a new position. it is possible, but unlikely. host: would you serve again in iraq? made a commitment. if they called me, i would be duty bound to go. host: do you think come over the do you thinkaq -- it was worth it? it was worth it. is it looking like it was worth it at this moment, it is hard to quantify. for the family, the parent, the wife, the husband who lost their loved one in iraq, it would be

hard to look them in the face , what was that for? it was for the person standing next to them who would not be here otherwise. , butght for our country we also fight for the person next to us. the greater mission has been compromised. president need to come to congress for any additional action in iraq? that is unclear right now because i'm not sure what our status is, if we still have a status on the previous agreement. i asked that yesterday and not gotten an answer yet. if we have a current status based on our occupancy, i would say no. it would also be the right thing to do from the standpoint of

trust and collaboratively working together and understanding that the people speak through their own apresentatives -- we did it poll last night and there is very little support for having boots on the ground. if he is going to take that action, he will be there on his own. host: let's get to phone calls here. george is up first. republican caller. caller: as an aside before i get that, asi have to say a retired marine, your tie is a little askew. i agree with you, the greater mission has been compromised.

for better or worse, a newly elected president assumes all for the actions of the former. .t is time we stop blaming bush obama needs to start taking responsibility because he is the president. the agreement -- i have heard the disparity because we could not get a agreement. aliki refused. the number he requested has been different from what this was going to give and therefore the agreement was not signed and done that way. i would like somebody to get up to the public and give the figures or find out the reason why the agreement was not done. if it was, iraq would not have fallen the way it is. guest: i would agree.

the first statement -- this is an imperfect world. we change presidents every 4-8 years. the president sometimes gets things they don't want. you have to deal with the situation at hand. i would agree with that assessment. think the agreement -- that is an excellent point. we need to know how that went. for me, it was too convenient for political narrative to not stay in iraq. , we were in ae position to dictate a certain amount of those terms. would not be in the position he is in now if it were not for the united states. there is a certain responsibility that goes with that. you get that agreement. force -- this is america and we provided that position for freedom and a democratic government.

that was provided courtesy of the united states of america. you make sure that you don't leave without setting those terms. anything less than that is failure of completing the mission. role of thebout the administration, going in in the first place. many people think that without a us-led invasion, you would not have the insurgencies we have seen over the years. because the u.s. government forced members of the baath party out. said, previous color saddam hussein kept that country in order. and the region in order. someone saysr, that we gave iraw tq to iran. time to take it back. guest: there are certain

criticisms of how the war was executed and they are appropriate. this is an attempt for effect -- an imperfect war. based on intelligence and what we think is the right thing to do, it is flawed. there is no doubt that purging all of the baath party and the military has been seen over as a mistake of the operation. said, we having been do not appreciate north korea and their actions. the only reason that we let them continue to do what they're doing is that they are contained. we do not approve of it. even though the president at the time made these decisions and some of the more imperfect -- we did stabilize iraq. it was a successful mission at the end of his term. nextd lay success on the president. he did hand off a successful

product. successfully managed. just like a person who gets a company handed to them from their father, you can either run it into bankruptcy or continue the success. it is been your responsibility. i think there has been a failure here. host: jamie, democratic color, -- caller. caller: i want to recognize representative terry for his service -- perry for his service. i hope and pray that he does not have to go back. i have a son and think in this he is healthy right now. i want to know why the parties -- and i blame the parties, i do not blame the people. why can't the parties come out with facts, truths, and understanding? what is going on in our country

is not healthy. d our country is going to fall one of these days. i am 71 years old. things that are going on right now, i have never seen in my life. congress the refused to negotiate, compromise, and shuts the government out. host: we will have the congressman respond. guest: i think there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides. jamie makes a point about failed negotiations on behalf of the congress and some were tractability. i also lay some of the blame -- when congress has to pull information that it seems would be valid. we understand that people make mistakes. we are human. let's own up to mistakes and figure out how we can not do that again. but, what happens is we breed this mistrust when the

information is not for thcoming. -- irs situation or when congress, the attorney general is held in contempt of congress. this is a circumstance of ms. trust -- mistrust. host: we're talking with congressman scott. t perry. he is on the foreign affairs committee. we have a fourth line and aside for iraq war veterans this morning. we want to hear from you too. as a member of the foreign affairs committee, you had a closed-door briefing yesterday with the administration. what did you learn? guest: not closed-door, but classified. we learned some more depth about the situation. i cannot give specifics. we have questions about the staff there and timelines.

you get a better feel for the situation on the ground and to some of the actors are. and what are the key points that would equate to another key point. so, probably the members of congress there are looking for -- looking at the situation a little differently. your average viewer has not had the briefing. host: it cost $1 billion to build? why would it need reinforcement? guest: even at its size and formidable structure and service, anything can be held under siege. you have to get supplies in and out of it. encircled, the enemy only has to wait. they have taken -- gr ground to air missiles.

they have artillery. the supplied by air is in jeopardy once the insurgents get close enough. at some point, you can hold out, but you cannot live on nothing. unit food and water and fueld. once those things are compromised, it is too late. we would have to pull out before we get to that point. you have to get out before then. host: we will go to the line for independence. caller: hi. i wanted to talk about iraq. the united states is a great country. i feel that there is a tendency for everyone to ignore the middle east. that is causing the troubles. in saudi arabia, the militants there are allies --

now, the same militants are attacking monarchies. so, for the saudi arabia embassy -- it is alive. that same mistakes happen to years ago with afghanistan against saudi arabia. the taliban insurgents increased. same thing is happening in iraq and syria. people should start addressing this issue and it would be more open. telling people to stop doing this. host: let me just add to this. the wall street journal -- more allies are pressing the white house to pull the support. what about the world/ ? great hussein makes a

point. the shows how confiscated this has become. americans need to be aware of the different alliances that are involved and have been involved for some time. that ghost my other point. we're at and past the point of having a lot of great options. this is why the president should have been engaged. directly very early on. probleserious even had a m. these are not new occurrences. these are not eventualities. course, it is easy to monday morning quarterback. there have been many who have said this is coming. we should get engaged, we should do something. this pullback strategy and let things happen -- we are actors in the world. either we decide to pull ourselves out completely or we have to participate. now we have no option.

very few good options. host: a republican in tennessee, go ahead. caller: good morning. i look at the situation we have in iraq. bad thisnd me of how president is. before long, if baghdad falls, we will have a big problem. some of our allies like saudi arabia -- i woulde president, already have the 101st airborne division parachuting in. i am a veteran, so i know what is wrong. you end up losing like we did in vietnam. host: congressman, talk about the military strategy. there are challenges. guest: there are huge challenges.

they do exceptional damage and can persuade the enemy to stop doing what it is doing. you have to get the 101st -- there is the logistic tail. and there is public support. i appreciate what he wants to accomplish. we have already done that. we have already paid credibility. we have one this victory. why must we with our sons and daughters, go back in and do it again to account for politicians in washington? the military is an extension of our public and diplomatic policy. it is an extension on the continuum. there is a time and a place to use it. right now, i do not think that the public supports what -- i don't support that either. we have two good options. host: to be clear, when do you say yes for a military strategy?

what needs to be laid out? guest: i do support drone strikes. they will have to be court made it with ground forces. they do not have to be american ground forces. they should be from the neighbors there with the u.s. involvement. to make sure that today than she shiites --sunnis and so that we can have a conversation to get that country back where was a few years ago. host: there is an iraq veteran in garden city, new york. caller: good morning, hi. how are you? i'm quite interested, as a veteran and a medic -- that is what i do for a living today. i have a great fan of late-night tv. my good friends on all these television shows --

they are watching what is going on in the middle east. like many people, it seems like it is chaos. cooler heads need to prevail. it is very complicated. it is an emerging situation. i think that we have the communications. we have the capacity to try to figure out, without making it worse, how to make it better quickly. and to keep our people safe at the embassy and to think about the refugees who are lining up and the heat right now. in the heat, without tents and water. whether they are coming from syria or they are coming from the north of iraq. it is a humanitarian disaster. it is an ecological disaster. host: we will take a point. you said that this is an emergency. guest: it certainly is a humanitarian emergency.

who aree many iraqis not interested in this fighting and would like to live in a peaceful, stable nation. you think about the children of these folks. a child as a child the matter where they are born or where they exist. this is horrific to us. should that americans and can participate in the humanitarian relief effort, and, as patricia said, the heat of iraq. it is oppressive. outthings that will be born of that crisis will then just add to the sooner we can get to that. it should not be america alone once again. have a close vested interest in finding a solution. host: let's go to rest in connecticut. independent caller. caller: my question is this. congress is investigating the --

i understand that this was a disaster. iraq.are that to i remember all of the promises that were made to the american people and to the world by the bush administration. i remember phrases like shock and awe. the opposition was going to be so overwhelmed by american fighters that they would never even consider doing anything like we're saying -- seeing now. i remember vice president cheney saying that we would get in, get rid of the administration, and get out. that would be it. we have spent $1.7 trillion. this was supposed to be a model democracy. we were supposed to leave and show the middle east how to run a good come a stable democracy. why aren't we investigating that?

why is there no congressional investigation? host: congressman? guest: quite honestly, i think we would be throwing good money after bad. i think the jury is in on that. those were assumptions and mistakes that we could get in and get out quickly. i think history obviously shows those facts are what they are. there's is a certain amount of criticism that is invalid. regardingigation those remarks -- those are opinions based on what they thought would happen or what advisers told them. they are flawed. that speaks to itself. ain, even though the criticism is valid -- the president left the situation in iraq that was better than when it had started. with saddam in there and a state sponsor of terrorism.

people say there were no weapons of mass destruction. there were weapons of mass destruction. same substances we were going into syria about. the situation was improved. i think that there is some criticism of the obama-clinton strategy for iraq and the greater region moving forward. we are not investigating that at this point. we are seeing -- we are reaping what that policy has sown. just like the former president's policy. host: let's get an e-mail from joe in york, pennsylvania. i want to know what the consequences will be for this conflict in iraq? will it be gas prices? guest: it absolutely is going to be gas prices.

there is uncertainty on the world market. those are the immediate domestic consequences. what we do not know and what we will hopefully find out -- the fact that people are equating this with the southern border. if there is some opportunity associated with this -- we do not know that at this time. we hope that it does not happen. i am not implying that it is going to. the immediate consequences domestically is fuel. and in an economy that is contracting. host: let's go to robert in arizona. republican caller. caller: i think that we should be in iraq big-time. we are already there. we have to set up a program, you better program to sell to the world. and to enforce human rights. and set a good example for the

future. host: ok. congressman? guest: excellent point. the one of the things that america stands for. you also have to have the willingness of the community of the nation that you are hoping to have them come around to that. the culture they're obviously does not really provide for that. that is a long-term process which goes to my point that we should not have less. shouldn't have left the stabilization force there to make sure that malik he did the right thing. so that the coalition government included the terms and included some of that, incident having him thrown in jail. that is what has been squandered. over time, you can look at the cultural aspects. we have lost that opportunity now. we ask the american people to give their lives for their sons and daughters, once again. andpreciate the question

the assertion, but there has to be a great conversation. the clock is ticking and the insurgents are moving. twitter --e on it is not our right to determine who or what kind of government they have. and in e-mail says that the u.s. iki must that mal go, but what do the people want? guest: it depends on what neighborhood you are in. if you are a fan, obviously you want him to stay. there's a huge portion of the population that does not agree. that is why there's so much support for this insurgency. host: phil says my son called this morning. he says heaq vet and would go back in a heartbeat. bonnie, you are up. caller: hello. i remember a lot of reasons that we were given for invading and occupying iraq.

one of them was aluminum tubes and mushroom clouds. there were u.n. inspectors on the ground. you're right. there were no threats of nuclear weapons. we knew that there were chemical weapons because donald rumsfeld made in exchange with saddam hussein and gave him those weapons. the u.n. inspectors were there saying that those were destroyed as well. the real reason i am convinced was the contract for a new american century. they were waiting for a catastrophe and 9/11 was our catastrophe. most of the people responsible were saudi said. -- saudis. and there was someone from the united arab emirates too. iraq had nothing to do with it. they were no threat. we have depleted uranium and phosphorus bombs to kill hundreds of thousands of people.

it was not a humanitarian reason for us to occupy this nation. at the end of president bush's last term, he signed an agreement with maliki. we recognize them as a sovereign state. to stay on,ot want and we withdrew troops. blaming it on the current administration is not factual and it is a lie. host: i think he is referring to a 2008 agreement, the bush administration summit, saying we would be out by 2011. guest: they also let the prospect open for the new it ministration so it did not tie the hands of the new administration to administer the future. that is well known as well. i think that certainly there is plenty of blame to go around for the previous administration for all the reasons stated. it has completely absolved

the current administration and that is wacky as well. host: independent caller, lumberton, new jersey. from 2009 toved november 2010. guest: thank you for your service. caller: thank you. i heard you say that you -- that president bush handed off a win to president obama. i would like to know what they won? don't say stability. and do not say we got rid of saddam. thousands of lives and displaced people -- what did we win? guest: we won an iraq that was headed for democracy. certainly, it was stable entered -- tyrander tierney. ny.

that was not good for the people that lived there or for the new world. there is no doubt that if it suited his purposes, he would have been happy to do that. while we live in the world, we must be prepared to deal with those things. if you want to deal with them after the fact -- i guess that is one approach. most americans would rather the attacks not happen. it is all fine site. luxury that we have the of all the fact after the fact. at the time, the intelligent showed what it showed. it was congress and the coalition forces that agreed to go and do what we did. maybe that was flawed. everybody agreed based on what they knew at the time. and intelligence has always been based that way. it will always be lacking unless you have somebody on the inside who can say these are the facts without any reservation whatsoever. we do not have that luxury.

host: grant, are you still there? caller: [indiscernible] host: we will go to robert next in georgia. you're on the air. caller: yes. i am in georgia. a suburb of atlanta. my question was -- not any talk of impeachment? bill clinton, there was talk of impeachment for sexual relations. we had early day, nondisclosure of this trade deal that we just didn't, with five of the worst of the worst. i wonder why impeachment talks have not been entered? host: go ahead. guest: there have been talks, of course. certainly, constituents ask their representatives on

occasion and feel the same way you do. our founders left us a political solution, not a legal solution. for the trade that was made, the 501 trade, and the lack of the 30 day notice -- that would codify the law signed by the president. there is some conjecture that that is not constitutional. this trade happened before such time as the administration could contend in court that that is not a constitution -- that that law is not constitutional. if this sounds like politics, it is confiscated. we have been left with a political solution which is not a finite, black-and-white solution. that we on e-mails and obama had no intention of negotiating an agreement. not only was the number two spot to be effective, but it was

ratified by an open vote by the iraqi parliament rather than by the u.s. and the prime minister's. obama was bent on getting out. a couple of tweets on money. are we ever going to ask the american people to pay for a continued prosecution of war? there is that side of the argu ment. and then someone else wants to know, do we have the money today? past, duringthe the iraq and afghanistan wars, we borrowed the money. not only are americans in the past paying for it, but americans in the future will pay for the wars of the past. i think it is a great point. and policyng to war is galvanizing public support, including the cost of the war. we literally cannot afford to do these things. that is the circumstance.

that is why our debt and deficit is a national security issue. we cannot afford to do the same things that we want to do i need to do to keep our nation safe. host: another viewer asks. doesn't this whole situation in iraq seem like one more reason to be energy independent? what is the hold up? on that point, the washington times is reporting that congress, the senate -- hasby mary landrieu, proposed a bill with republicans that cuts the president out of the keystone decision. tweeting out that this means we need more energy independence. we will go to jeff in lancaster, pennsylvania. also in iraq veteran. caller: thank you for having me. guest: thank you for your service. caller: congressman, i heard

-- that bush left iraq in a place where it was handed it over stable to barack obama. it was given to him screwed up. how it is president obama's fault when it was the george bush administration allied. they said there was weapons of mass destruction from the beginning when there was not. went over there on the premise of weapons of mass destruction and not democracy. host: would you go back? caller: no, i would not go back. i do not think it was worth it. at the went there on false pretenses. guest: let's just say that he is correct.

let's say all that is correct. the bottom line is that eight there.ater, we were the situation is the situation at hand as you receive the presidency. not think that jeff can justify this statement with any fact. was stable when bush left office, certainly compared to years before that, when the search occurred. the violence was at its lowest point for a period of time. shortly after, the violence continued. it escalated and continued to escalate out of proportion to where it was today. the fact do not bear out. i understand jeff's dismay. maybe he disagrees. soldiers do not get to choose why. they get to go. we understand that. saying that this is unjustified has no connection.

the president handed over the circumstance. it is stable and we are not losing american lives. we have a relatively stable government and a place to operate from. that was the circumstance, like it or not. back. is the only thing that you can do is say that there was some mismanagement between that and where we are now. host: part of the job was to train the iraq you military. yesterday, general dempsey was testifying. about what is going on with the iraqi forces. i want to show that and get your take. [video clip] >> in your estimation, why did the iraqi security forces perform so badly? what does this portend for afghanistan? >> date is not universally perform badly.

they performed badly in the north, in and around mosul where isil had gained a foothold in convinced some of the sunni elements. >> that was just a few of them. it was tens of thousands. >> isil turned their leaders. in the absence of leaders of the military formation, the soldiers will not stick around and wait to see what happens. collect some of the leaders of those divisions. i will tell you that when i was there from 2005 to 2007, several things were clear to me. we could equip them to fight. it would be harder to give them the logistics architectures. but we did. the hardest thing of all, as i say now, is to build leaders and have those leaders supported by central government is working on behalf of all of the people. that is why those units in the

north collapsed. there are still many of the iraqi forces -- not just one sector, who are still standing and fighting. the entire enterprise is at risk, as long as this political situation is in such flux. host: what do you make of that? guest: i think with the general is saying is that they had the skill set to fight and be successful. if you do not have the will, will cannot be trained. you have to be impassioned. signing up is not for everybody. it comes with that something bigger. if the believe is there because you do not have faith in her leadership, all of the training in the world will not make a difference. if you do not have the will, it does not matter. host: if there is a lack of will, what about the argument of defining iraq into sunni, shiite, kurd?

guest: it looks like it may be happening anyhow. just by sitting back and doing nothing, that might be what occurs anyhow. derek is up next here in washington, d.c. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm grateful to have the ability to talk to congress people. i just want to make a comment. i really think that we should be other when it comes to promoting democracy around the world. the world is looking at us. we are trying to promote democracy there. we do business with communists. they just don't like us. there is no playing around.

they just a like this. north korea, they have nuclear weapons. and, i am more worried about north korea and the chinese than i am about the middle east. small armaments and mortars, whatever. guest: he makes a great point. it does seem disjointed to stand back and watch. andcan we pick this cause not this issue which seems horrific? this horrible thing is happening around the globe. the united states has finite resources. we have to go where the hotspots are. we have to gain victories, whether human rights or necessity of military invention to stop terrorism. so, unfortunately, it is a lot of wack-a-mole. we do not like what is happening in north korea.

is it affecting us directly? i would say for the largest part, no. when you have terrorism and terrorist organizations able,king or being having the ability to attack america's interests -- we are forced into dealing with that. we hope to deal with north korea. unfortunately we have a 50 meter target. we have to let the thousand meter target sit there for a while and deal with this one. host: we appreciate your time this morning. thank you. we will continue the conversation. onnext, the top democrats the foreign affairs committee. later, a new york times correspondent will give us a readout of yesterday's defense meeting. all that after this news update. >> virginia republican congressional candidate, david

blat, will hold a news conference in richmond, worried we he will announce his platform. over ericupset win cantor. jack trammell is set to face david blat in the general election. both teacher randolph macon college. republicans will hold their leadership elections this afternoon. if the current majority winner is chosen, members will then choose a new whip. the government releases its unemployment claims numbers today. also, the leading economic indicators for may. and freddie mac will issue its weekly mortgage rate survey. a thirdlly, in vienna, day of talks is planned between iran and the six world powers. diplomats say that two days of discussion so far have failed to narrow differences ahead of a

july 20 target for a nuclear deal. this centers on uranium enrichment. some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> an app on transparency and freedom of information. my colleagues would give a similar grade, whether liberal or conservative. the freedom of information process has become a joke. it was already well on its way prior to the obama administration. this administration has forestalled and delayed. and really, it is shocking. i feel very strongly about the information they are withholding. it belongs to the public. there is no sense of that when you ask for it. they act as if they are a corporation, defending their trade secrets. what they hold as information they have gathered on our behalf. attkisson on the

changing face of network news and her career. for over 35 years, c-span brings public affairs events from washington directly to you. putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings, and conferences. in offering complete gavel to gavel coverage of the u.s. house. i'll let the public service of private industry. by thec-span, created cable tv industry 35 years ago. brontë was a public service by your cable or satellite provider. watch us in hd, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> "washington journal" continues. host: congressman eliot angle -- top democrat on the foreign affairs committee, thank you for being here. what do you think should happen in iraq? guest: it is such a mess. i think the president is doing it just about right now.

he is listening to what people are thinking. not making any quick or rational decisions. making a very difficult situation -- unfortunately, there are no good choice. we have to take the least worse of what we see. i do not think we can drop bombs sort drones. what we do has to be cordon aided. i think the president is doing it just right. the situation in iraq is terrible. to runot allow isis a nont in iraq and have man's land there where they can plot attacks against the united states. that is what happened in afghanistan when the russians were thrown out. we did not fill the vacuum. as a result, afghanistan became a no man's land. the result was september 11, 2001. we just cannot walk away and

pretend it does not exist. we have to do something. what do we do? there are no easy answers at all. host: would you support airstrikes? guest: i think airstrikes would probably be what we should do once we identify the objective. manned andones is unmanned airstrikes. these are things that we could use to slow down isis. ultimately, we have to have some allies in iraq. we have to have our allies. things have been very quiet in other countries. this cannot be the united states. obviously, we have a stake in it. so do other countries as well. europe is a lot closer than the united states is. participation is ultimately our friends and allies. host: what countries could go in

and help? guest: we of course always work with the u.k. very closely. and with france and our allies in nato. i think those are important. also, we need to consult and work with our allies in the region. uae and saudi arabia. those countries could help us to shape what happens in iraq. we need to coordinate with them. they are our friends and allies. and they are certainly very much affected by it. i think that those are the things that we have to do. host: the united states could possibly coordinate with iran. john boehner was asked about this yesterday. lindsay graham has said that we should consider that option. here's what the speaker said. [video clip] >> absolutely not. i can just imagine what our friends in the region and allies will be thinking. by reaching out to iran, at a

time when they continue to pay for terrorists. lebanon,in syria and but in israel as well. host: congressman? guest: i agree with speaker boehner. we should not have any kind of deal or alliance with iran. this war in iraq -- could spill over into a civil war in syria. iran has been a bad player in syria. they have allowed their terrorist cells to come into syria and fight on the side of the assad government. that is why they seem to have the upper hand. iran is the leading sponsor of terrorism. i do not think that you go to them. we are now negotiating with them about a program. i do not think you can mix apples and oranges. it will be tough with the nuclear program. you have to make sure that this

can never happen. you can be opposed to working with iran. i think that ultimately that would come back to bite us. host: if this is due to what is happening in syria, was the mistake for the obama administration, not to go into syria. do we prevent that situation from evolving? guest: i think it was a mistake. 1.5 years ago, i called for the arming of the free syria army. aey wanted to turn syria into democracy. we should have been aiding them. if we had, they would be the preeminent opposition. as a result, we did not help them. they came to me in opposition to assad. this war -- gas toses bombs and

murder his own people. it was inevitable that it would spill into neighboring iraq. , with syria and iraq. this is a result of our inaction in trying to stem the tide in syria. >> here is a quote from the chairman of the foreign affairs committee. they are always linked -- they are always thinking about, and considering options. guest: well -- she is a good friend of mine and we have worked together on so may things. i think i disagree with her on this one. you have to -- you cannot shoot from the hip. you have to listen and make a decision, in terms of what is best. i think it was a mistake not to

army.e free syria talk about iraq. who got us into iraq in the first place? george bush and dick cheney and that whole crew. marching into iraq on a live. were weaponshere of mass destruction here when there were not. we sell faulty intelligence. 4400 americans killed. trillions spent. a lot of this stems from that war and iraq, which was not paid for. you cannot blame this president, who inherited the war in iraq. host: we heard from a previous guest here. scott perry said the president knew what he was getting when he signed up for the job. heer he became president, has been driving up the last 3.5 years.

he could not force maliki to sign an agreement in 2011. it did not happen. it did not have an on his watch. guest: there is an element of truth in them. the president inherited it. the president wanted to leave american troops there. maliki would not sign a waiver of immunity. we have gotten that agreement in afghanistan, which is why we leave troops there. we have a combat mission that is over. could not have done that and iraq. maliki would not indemnify our soldiers. obama had no choice. based on what i have seen, the iranians put pressure on maliki, not to send this agreement. know, had refuge

in iraq. malikihe shiite power, and the majority -- he is essentially a uranium -- iranian puppet. i think they are about players. host: does he need to go? guest: i think he needs to go. he has been elected, someone democratic election. i do not think that iraq can move on with him as the leader. we need to find a way to bring them up and stop the extermists. as long as you have the sunnis and shiites -- this group is doing well. many shiites might not like them. we have to provide some kind of able tor sunnis to be

latch onto that we can have a multi ethnic community in iraw. q. is the that maliki problem, not the solution. host: on twitter, why did you go to give establish the authority? guest: that was the worst vote, the biggest mistake i made in congress. when i went upstairs and the capital, the intelligence was either faulty or an outright lie. we were told that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction and he was going to use them. that was a lie. we read that. september 11 had just happened. a lot of us were very concerned about that. it turned out to be a lie. if i could have one vote back,

that would be it. host: you have voted against surges or for surges? guest: i take them as i see them. i'm not automatically for or against anything. i opposed putting u.s. boots on the ground. i know the president sent summary and. -- some marines. i do not want to go down that road again and iraq. we will be sucked in and i do s onwant any u.s. soldier the ground. people are saying that we should get a negotiating agreement. i do not want to start. i think that is a slippery slope. host: let's get to calls. we have a fourth line for iraq war veterans. first in louisiana. republican caller. caller: i would like to make a

small point and come to a second one. first, i hear all of this about faulty intelligence. i think the american people and politicians conveniently forget that george bush made natural -- national address is times to get saddam hussein to avoid war. 3 times. we gave him plenty of opportunities. have failed as much as the bush administration. has put this new president of gm in front of congress, to hold her accountable for the mistakes made by previous ceos. that should relate to the presidency as well. once brought obama took the oath and took office, he owns everything. he has never once assumed any responsibility. it has been george bush's fault or maliki's fault. i would like for the congressman to tell us --

if you cannot lead and get results, should he just blame everybody else? guest: i do not think it is quite that simple. i do not think the president is blaming everybody else. he is saying that he inherited two wars. and the bad economy. you are right in saying that he is president now and it is his baby. he has to take responsibility for what he does or does not do. the circumstances that got us into iraq -- that we came to war on a lie. i think that is not in dispute. we have heard that there were weapons of mass destruction when there were not. plain and simple. that is why we were told we had to go to war. host: democratic collar in alabama. caller: hello. host: go ahead, you're on the air. caller: good morning.

i would just like to know -- one thing. it is one thing to start a war and another to inherit one. democrats and republicans going to stop. it brings us nothing but chaos. host: cover spent? guest: i do not think it is imperialism. frankly, i think that you have a phenomenal -- you have these radical islamists, who think nothing of killing people. and leaving carnage in their path. we have seen situations in the people weree 1700 murdered in cold blood. for their philosophies or -- they have no respect for human life. i am a new yorker.

i saw what september 11 did. if we do not stop some of these people, they will do it again. we have an absolute say in what goes on in iraq. it is self-preservation. host: the previous caller mentioned president bush giving primetime addresses on iraq. does the president need to do a primetime address? guest: yes he does. and i think you will in a think he should. host: does he need to go to congress for more authority on military action? guest: i do not believe so. i was one of the people who urged him to strike syria. and ultimately not to do it. i felt he did not have to go to congress for more power. has at least 60 days to act on his own before he goes to congress -- i thought the president said so publicly. he should have acted in syria. assad is a bad player. he should have acted there.

i do not think that -- i believe that the same situation in iraq, the war powers act permits him to act. come back to congress within 60 days and that is important. host: is the military power imminent? guest: i think the united states has to do something. there are no good choices left in iraq. i think of all the years i have been in congress. on the foreign affairs committee. this is one that really can stump you in terms of what should be done. there is no clear solution, no immediate solution. no good solution. i think the worst choice is to do nothing. i think that there needs to be a response. you need to have a response that makes sense, not just a response that says we have done something and can feel good about it. something that will slow down

isis and change the situation on the ground. we cannot allow iraq to be controlled. host: we will talk with steve next in maine, independent caller. caller: hi. i agree with you totally about maliki's presence. both presidents dropped the ball on him on that we do need to do something. in our benefit. host: what do you think that is? caller: i think it is securing the oil. that we should not listen to anybody talk u s --push us around. wewe won that country, should have developed the

government. we did not want to. and i think we have just got to go for our benefits right now and let it go from there. host: congressman, what do you think? guest: i think we have to have some kind of stability in iraq. it will not be easy. we have to not allow isis to control territory. we have to bring the coalition between the sunnis and shiites. maliki is not the person to do that. we have to find someone to do that and hope that it works. drones, targeted attacks -- these are the options the president is considering now. i think that we cannot afford to do less. host: the government has forced s, put in people who are not as competent. is this shiite led

government any better, any different than the saddam hussein led government? guest: i do not think so. we made a lot of mistakes in iraq when we toppled saddam hussein. we made sure that anybody from his baath party could not get jobs, it was a colossal error. we turned a lot of people against us as a result of that. i do not think that this regime is any better than saddam hussein. we are looking for some kind of happy medium. i do not know if it exists, but we will try to find it. canwhere moderate shiites work together to build a new iraq. saddam hussein was a brutal the crater, -- dictator and he deserved to go. what we're seeing now is no better. host: an iraq veteran in texas, hello. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: yes --

try not to cut me off, ok. i have been trying to get through for the past 20 years or so. host: go ahead then. caller: i hate to see country being torn apart by this bickering, back and forth. mainly coming from one party. the president had an opposition party in power that was willing to work with him, we would not be in some of this mess that we are in. anytime you have a service member that is being held in captivity, in another country -- may have walked off his post. he should have a trial or investigation. that should determine that. guilty, he isund

presumed innocent. and the whole party, political party, stands before cameras, stands before pundits, to tear this man down. what will give a young person or a family of a young person -- how would they feel about their family members? they do not want to join america's armed forces. host: let's let the compass minerals bond. guest: thank you for the service. we appreciate all of the men and women who have served in the military and keep us safe. i agree with your sentiments. i agree with everything you said. it is time to stop the blame game. it is time to work together. we have the foreign affairs committee and we have done that. we have the most bipartisan committee in congress, under the leadership of chairman royce and and myself. we work very hard because we

think that the american people are very tired of the fighting in the blame game. we are americans and we share a lot. are americans. we share a lot in common. we need to work together. is entitled tol the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. if he is proven guilty, he will be court-martialed and dealt with accordingly. i am for bringing every soldier home. that is important. ultimately, his innocence or guilt will be determined. about theou agree captured benghazi suspects? don't grant legal rights to catawba -- two ahmed abu khattala. need to be interrogating him and getting as much intelligence as possible. say put him inns

guantánamo bay. >> i agree with the sentiments. there are bad guys at guantánamo. they need to be incarcerated. a country of law. we pride ourselves on having a justice system. with keeping him in prison without being charged indefinitely. i do not think that is something we should be proud of. ultimately, guantánamo has to close. these are bad people and we cannot just release them. we need to charge them, try them, and convict them. host: in the case of ahmed abu thetala, this he deserve legal protections granted americans?

guest: i would say he does not deserve it. i have not decided whether he should be tried and in what kind of court. give the president some credit. nobody wants to give the president credit. laden, we got him. this is under president obama's direction that we got osama bin laden. who got benghazi -- who started the benghazi stuff, also under this president. the criticism would be more palpable if the people who criticized also praised when , as they have in many instances. host: great falls, virginia. go ahead. caller: i have been following the situation in iraq.

fiasco as the fault of the american government and the intelligence community because of what they did in iraq and what they are doing in syria. syria was a prosperous country before the situation. [indiscernible] of the american government. hundreds of thousands of people are in turkey. they become beggars. we go back to air rack. he was a puppet. he lived in iran. again, american government brought this guy to power. election, but it could have been eliminated. it was a big mistake to bring him to power. separatedoing to be

into three different countries. the south, north, and kurdish. the kurdish is going to propose this. don't you guysy try to do a better job? guest: i agree with most of what you said. i think the situation is a mess. ofhink there were a lot foulups. we can go back into the past. it is not helpful. we have to deal with the situation that we have today. these countries were artificially created by occupying powers years ago and maybe your rack should break up. i have never understood why they the kurds arehy

not entitled to self-determination. i don't understand why they are denied the right to self-determination. on the other hand, if we want to have a situation where the radicals like isis do not have a foothold in your rack, then we're going to need all of the other people in the country. they will have to work together to try to elect a democratic leader so that isis does not take old. we may need them to try to stabilize air rack. forhat would that mean iran? wouldn't that trigger -- some people are saying that could trigger a regional war. it could have some sort of regional war. guest: you could say that.

essentially, the kurds in iraq are operating with their own government. for all intents and purposes, they are governing themselves. iran would resist. turkey would resist. others would resist. entitledhe kurds are to the same self-determination others are. caller also brought up intelligence. paul bremmer, he told the washington journal that we did find chemical weapons and documents about saddam's nuclear plans. the beginning, we were told he had more than that. he had weapons of mass destruction. he was going to use it. we were told of the whole thing.

we will never know if it was an outright, deliberate lie to congress or a faulty u.s. intelligence information. we can't speculate, but it does not matter. we started that war based on a false premise. i regret that. not givef you do correct information, we cannot make good judgments based on faulty information. caller: my opinion on this is we have spent enough resources and human lives, those that are dead and those that lives have been .hanged people,me for the iraqi forget about the oil. it is time for them to step up and put their big point -- big

boy pants on and time for them to take control and do in their country what they need to do. they are not ignorant people. our country is suffering and nobody seems to care about that. we have people hungry and in need over here. then, we have to be saddled with this. let those people decide what they want to do. guest: it will have a flashback effect. if that does, we do not need a terrorist group like isis the ability to launch strikes. this happened on september 11, 2001 when radicals, under the protection of the mainland.

it is not simply a matter of us being able to go home and shut out the rest of the world. we live in a world that is shrink -- shrinking. in one place, what happens there, it affects us. do not agree,e but i think u.s. foreign aid is important because we do have -- we need to shape the future. we cannot put our heads under our pillow and become isolated. it will come back to haunt us. joseph, hello. caller: good morning. i served in vietnam. i served in the first gulf war. i served in bosnia. i listen to these people: i think, personally, we should

stay out of iraq. let these people be separated in their own sections of the world. i am originally from croatia. croatia, we separated. we have our own little country. does the sameaine way. let iraq b iraq. let them deal with their own section of people. it would save our lives, our that this many griefs country is going through with illegal immigrants. we should not get involved with every terrorist in the world because if you are going to do that, then you have to start in africa now and get the bad guys out. at rightchance to get away, the first month we were there with the 82nd airborne. all of this political excuses are just getting overwhelmed. think you. guest: thank you for your

service. i do not think we can get involved in every fight across the world. nor should we. believe we should. there are certain fights that affect us. i believe what happens in iraq affects us. as i mentioned before, you have this terrorist group waiting to plot and plan for attacks against the u.s. mainland. we need to disrupt them. we need to ensure that they do not have the upper hand in that they do not have a terrorist sanctuary in iraq just like they had in iran -- in afghanistan. host: where's the evidence that isis wants to attack the united states and not just have their own sunni led government country? guest: it is alleged the leader

of isis said see you in new york. i was not there. i do not know for a fact. it was reported that is what he said. it is clear that these groups use terror as a weapon. one of the things that they are doing now is they want to documented and video do everything they did, these videos of the slaughter of people. retaliation.a they want to see iraq erupt in a what bath. it serves their purposes. we know who these people are. they are bad guys and we just cannot put our heads in the sand like ostriches. host: you had a briefing on capitol hill. tell usou cannot specifics, but were you given evidence that there is a threat here, directly to the united states? guest: i think the and -- the

assumption is that it is a threat to the united states. my bottom line is what is good for the united states? i agree with the bull who say we cannot be the police of the world. we cannot. we should not. we cannot do that. we need to pick and choose situations that definitely affect us and this definitely does. host: what is the difference between presuming saddam hussein had weapons of mass deception -- mass destruction and proving that isis wants to harm the united states. we were wrong then. i hope we are not wrong now. i think it is pretty clear what isis is all about. we can take a look and see how they acted in syria with the syrian population. hundreds of thousands of people were being killed with all kinds of things. these are bad people. they want to hurt us. that is why we have a stake in

it. i think we can put our heads under the covers at pretend all is well, but all will not be well if we do not disrupt these people. host: caffe, louisiana, independent color. in iraqthis situation is not about freedom. it is not about the local people. it is not about american interests. it is about an islamic faith. these people are going to attack america. they are going to attack anyone at any cost and do anything to establish their islamic state. i understand the iraq people need to stand up for their own freedom, but you're talking over 1000 years of entrenched ideology. it was not a good thing for us to go over there and take saddam out. we need a presence over there. we have people in d.c. who are

plagued with indecision. people that cannot even or will depend on israel, the only other ally in the region. to have to protect ourselves against these people. they are coming after us. guest: i think she is right. to a great degree. these people want to come after us. their whole philosophy is anti-west. iran called us the great satan called israel the little satan. these are people who do not like western democracies and do not like the things we hold dear. that is why i am saying we have to listen and react carefully to what is happening in iraq. doing nothing is not an option. repeating-- i am

myself, but i want to emphasize this -- we cannot put our heads under our pillows and say who cares what happens? it will affect us. post think steve, republican color. host: steve, republican caller. going: as long as you are to deal with religious whack jobs, we're going to have these kinds of problems forever. it does not matter what country it is in. if you do not have the separation between church and state, you're asking for trouble. it is hard to overcome a history like the mideast has, but it is something we can tie our aid to an arrangement where we would try to sideline the powerful

religious interest from the political field. out probably did not come the way i wanted. i will let you carry on. thank you. guest: a gets back to what i said about syria. notink we made a mistake eating the free -- not aiding the free syrian army. i think u.s. foreign policy should be to build up those countries and those movements in those countries that practice democracy. a double-edged sword. we do not want to get involved in every country, nor should we, nor can we. what we need to do is to make sure that those movements that represent a threat to our homeland are stopped. i think that is what we tried to do. it is imperfect. we are going to make mistakes.

isolationism is not an option. host: will read a, good morning. , good morning. when the united states won their freedom from great britain, it was because every man, child, and woman had a fire in their belly for their freedom. if the countries in the middle east do not have that fire, it is never going to work. the defense that people tore off their uniforms i thought, it is all over again. to settle their own problems.

guest: these were american trained iraqi forces. wereis what we did when we in iraq. something is wrong. it is not working. people,set of many particularly in the middle east, is not the mindset of us in the united states. breedsntalism fanaticism. there is a lot of religious fanaticism in that part of the world. i think it is something that is alien to us and do something that i do not think we can ignore. i think it is a very real problem. host: thank you for talking to our viewers. we are going to switch gears into a domestic issue.

up on capitol hill yesterday, ceo, mary barra was testifying before congress about the ignition switch problem with the vehicles. showing us is michael fletcher on the phone. he is a reporter. gm's mary barra returns to the hill for a grilling on the ignition switch report. what was the hearing like? guest: it was marked by skepticism. it was not as intense as the first round of hearings she was subjected to back in april. out foren, gm has come an internal report, looking at the how and why of this ignition switch problem. she is may be expecting a less skeptical reception, but lawmakers were highly skeptical. as to why gmious

would not consider a running stall to be a safety problem, which is problem -- part of what they said about the ignition switch problem. she faced a lot of skepticism and tough questions. host: who did this report and what did it say? guest: the report was done by anton valukas. he is a formal attorney. he did reports like this for the lehman brothers. he interviewed a couple hundred , what they came up with was that the ignition switch problem really grew out ofthe dysfunctional kind culture of gm. it was not an orchestrated cover-up, but instead, it was a case of negligence and incompetence in many ways. the engineers who were looking at the problem did not realize it wouldt switched off

disable the airbags. that was a crucial link missed for a long time. furthermore, one of the engineers in charge of the project back in 2000 six, he changed the design of the ignition switch and that was not documented. there was no new part number. that was his doing, according to the report. it was not something that was ordered from above. whoecame these individuals basically blocked gm from solving this problem and there was no sense of urgency because they did not see this as a safety problem, which lawmakers found to be incredible. host: it sounds like they were skeptical, but why? guest: it feels like common sense if you have a car that you could be running at highway speed and the ignition switch gets jostled because it hits a bump or your knee hits the steering column and turns the

ignition off in the car, the power brakes and power steering do not work. you have to have the presence of mind to shift the car into neutral and restart it, they say how can that not be a safety issue? think there was some skepticism about whether mary barra is going to get at the problem. she is taking dramatic steps. she has fired 15 people and made clear that safety has to be number one. same time, gm ordered another recall of some cars for very similar problems. thats revealed yesterday he first complained about that problem came up in 2000 five. host: we cover the hearing yesterday. i want to show the viewers what mary barra had to say about the results of this audit.

[video clip] restructured our decision-making process, addressing a key point in the reports that critical information was kept from senior management. under the new system, this should never happen again. we are conducting what i believe is the most exhaustive comprehensive safety review in the history of our company. we are leaving no stone unturned and devoting whatever resources it takes to identify potential safety issues in all of our current vehicles and on vehicles no longer in production. our responsibility is to set a new norm and industry-standard on safety and quality. i have told employees it is not enough to simply fix the problem. we need to create a new standard and we will create a new norm. barra on capitol hill, testifying about the internal audit.

with theletcher is washington post, talking to us on the phone. she said they have fired 15 people and they are getting fresh blood into the con the knee -- into the company. they have more than 200,000 employees worldwide. there was this kind of skepticism about whether getting rid of 15 people gets to the root of the problem. this is a long-standing problem. talk aboutlot of gm's dysfunctional culture five years ago during the auto bailout. bureaucracy and that gm has inside the company that was responsible for the company's downfall. that is what you hear from the auto task force. there is a sense of here we are again, talking about gm's internal problems. they were really pushing mary been a gmay you have

4 -- been at gm for over 30 years, are you the one to fix the problem. there is a lot of question about what the company needs. host: let's listen to an exchange between the subcommittee chairman questioning mary barra about the culture. [video clip] >> you have been with the company for 30 years. how has someone who has spent an -- re you mentioned 15 employees were fired. that is 99.999% if my math is right. if you have not changed the people, how do you change the culture? >> the people not with the company are the people that did not take action they should or did not work urgently enough to rectify this matter.

they are no longer part of this company. that was a strong signal to send within the company. it is important that we create the right environment where every engineer and everyone is able to come to work everyday and do their best work, be supported, and that is the culture we are working to create. those are the programs we have put into place. barra ont was mary capitol hill talking about the by tim of gm, questioned murphy. we covered it. if you missed it, go to c-span.org. that mary barra was on capitol hill before the subcommittee, she referred to the old gm and the new gm. why? did she repeat that this time around? guest: she did not talk as much in those terms.

the old gm was the pre-bankruptcy, pre-restructuring gm. in her last appearance on the hill, she talked about the old gm being more cost conscious and less focused on the customer and she tried to contrast that with the new gm. at that time, she had to deflect many questions. that frustrated lawmakers. she kept referring to the valuk as reports because they were not -- the facts were not in from those reports. frame andless of that more focus on things that were in the report and more importantly, the steps she is cultureo shed the old from the new gm. host: is congress doing its own investigation? guest: they are.

they're looking at that. it has more of a focus on nhtsa as well. they are doing their own investigation. the valukas investigation is done. what they found tracks what mr. valukas found so far. fletcher with the. we appreciate your time. bying up, we will be joined neil r one. -- neil irwin. soughtr americans unemployment benefits last week. the number of people collecting jobless aid fell to its lowest level in more than six years. weekly applications for unemployment benefits fell 6000 6000.fell

it is the lowest total since october 2007. about two months before the recession began. says itral government is tightening its current fingerprint policy for migrant children detained at the border. people other than parents who stepped forward to care for the children will be fingerprinted amid concerns by immigrant advocates. only parents emily bogart and will be exempt. parents willonly be exempt. a lawsuit over eagles. conservatorybird will sue the obama administration that allows wind energy companies to seek approval to kill or injure eagles for 30 years without prosecution. argentina threatened to default on its debt today.

it's government called it impossible to pay bond service due on june 30. officials cite a u.s. court decision that increased pressure ailingeconomic company -- country. >> the idea behind two 50/250, instead of trying to tell the entire history of st. louis, we would miss vital he important things. instead of trying to do that and failing, we decided, what if we gave snapshots of st. louis' history that would give people a glimpse of all the things that happened and they can use it their imaginations to fill in the rest.

we tried to choose the most diverse selection we could. this is what most people would call the real history. this is where the object is right in front of you. such a huge part of st. louis' history. the most famous became anheuser-busch. anheuser-busch, talking about millions of barrels produced each year, we think they are producing so much beer, this is an era when things were simple. it is fun to show people this object and gauge their response. they had cans or bottle caps. they put corks may topple bottles and somebody had to sit on this and do it by hand. it has foot pedals on the bottom. the operator would push down to give the court enough force --

the cork enough force to going to the bottle. >> the history and literary life of st. louis. on c-span two book tv. >> washington journal continues. neil our next guest is irwin. --is the author of the book the author of a book. thank you for joining us. reserve wrapped up its meeting yesterday. what did they decide to do? guest: they continue keeping low interest rate policies in place to keep pumping money into the u.s. economy and to slow down the rate at which they pumped money into the economy. they reduced from $45 billion a

month to $35 billion a month. down so is to wind maybe by the end of the year they will no longer be in the business of printing money to buy bonds. host: can you tell us about the stimulus program? inst: it was launched back 2012. the economy has been subpar. inflation is too low. we are going to do something to try and combat that. they started a program of creating new money to buy treasury bonds and other securities to pump money into the financial system. what they're doing now is saying we think the economy is roughly on track so we are going to try to withdraw that and get out of that progress him -- that program. host: we have a clip of janet

yellen discussing her outlook for the economy. we will listen to it and get your reaction. [video clip] >> economic activity is rebounding. it will continue to expand at a moderate pace thereafter. overall, the committee continues to see sufficient underlying strength in the economy to support ongoing improvement in the labor market. is running below the 2% objective. the committee remains mindful that inflation running below its objective could pose a risk to economic performance. host: what was she trying to say? keeps growingnomy and maybe we would like it to grow a little faster. the labor market is improving and the job market is getting better. there is progress. down thelling to slow

kind of interventions that we do. way is the central bankers of saying everything is not fixed, but we are on the right path. meeting, theys release a forecast of what they expect the economy to do. in that forecast, they revised down their estimate of how much gdp is going to grow. we had a rough winter. a lot of bad weather that disrupted output in the first quarter. it looks like the first quarter of the u.s. economy shrank. most forecasters think that has rebounded nicely. because of the weak force -- , it looks more like 2.1% or 2.3%.

host: what is the picture for the longer-term? into: where five years this recovery. it started back in a summer of 2009. to a lot of americans, does not feel that way. they say the economy is not fixed, this is not a recovery. things are miserable. even though growth returns in the summer of 2009, it has been a very slow pace of growth. not the kind of improvement you feel in the form of higher wages or lower unemployment. until that changes and you have an economy where people are getting raises and people feel like they can get their job easily, things will not feel slowly healed. us on thecan call republican line. republicans, (202) 585-3881. democrats, (202) 585-3880. independents, (202) 585-3882.

we will go to our first caller, diane. i was wondering how you can say that jobs are being created in this country when t here is a job created it is minimum wage or less and these people are on public assistance in some fashion and that the participation rate of the people in this country are like 60%. people have dropped out. the jobless rate is bogus, created by the white house to make us think they are doing something for us other than wall street. that is all that is going on. as bad as theare republicans with going after big money. they care nothing about the country. guest: there is some truth in

that. here is where there is some truth. growth.s been job there are more jobs than there were a year ago or two years ago. may, we hit the pre-crisis peaked. all the jobs that were lost in 2008 and 2009 have been filled. wages have been coming under pressure. a lot of the areas with the highgest job growth are retail. it is not creating a strong wages the people want to see. as the labor market gets tighter, employees have -- employers have no choice but to give employees reasons to keep them. if you look at the average hourly pay for american workers

from may to may, it is up about 2%. it is the case that even as jobs return, wageto growth is not what you want to see because of the types of jobs that have been created. host: have is the federal reserve take this into account? tools are about interest rates and the money markets. they cannot find tune things in the economy and the job market. they can look at the aggregate and the overall numbers and try to set the right policies. wages are one of the important things for the federal reserve to pay attention to in trying to assess the health of the job market. it does not matter if the unemployment rate falls.

wages are stagnant or falling, that is not a healthy labor market, even if the unemployment labor market falls. this is something janet yellen takes seriously. host: mary, kentucky, republican line. i wanted to ask about the united states savings bonds. the other was, they have this war chest they have built up to real like himself. why do they not buy back america with part of that war chest? put out to each american, send the dollar, by your country back. , you start out low, you discipline yourself to live on the means you have and

person deceived, potato, a bag of dirt, and to teach them how to grow, how to can, they will never go hungry. also, work ethic. be proud of the job you have done. just because you went to college does not mean you know how to do something if you're going to go smart for i am too that and i am not going to get my hands dirty. i can bush hog, i can cut trees down, you name it, i can do it. host: thank you for your comments. she wrought up an interesting point about saving. we are trying to save money in a tough economy. important point about how we got into this mess. we had a long period in which was spending more than it saved. money was coming in from overseas, borrowing it, using it

to build houses. that collapsed. learned is that we cannot be a debt driven economy. we need to have consumption in line with our output. if you are a farm wife, you cannot indefinitely live better than whatever you are growing. the same applies broadly throughout the economy. line up in theo long run, even if you can borrow money temporarily. it is about finding a sustainable balance of spending, investment, and consumption. host: is this change in behavior towards consumers about less spending and more saving? guest: the last few years is trying to reduce household debt. household debt relative to the size of the economy grew

continuously from the 1980's to the 2000. a reversed in 2008. to say i want to pay down my debt and increase my saving, but if we all do it at cansame time, the economy grind to a halt. my spending is your income. if you start saving more and do not consume, the people who make those things, they do not have a job or income. anwere trying to do adjustment where everyone was trying to save more and once. when that happens, the economy can live -- end up in a bad shape. we want to do it in a gradual way where we do not have a deep downturn in the economy. elizabeth, fort lauderdale florida. first of all, whenever i

hear everyone talking about the jobs, whether there is job loss or job creation, they never get into specifics. i live in florida. there are a lot of small businesses down here. republicans classifies small businesses 500 people or above. most of the jobs down here are , service sector, i am an editor. i went to college. i disagree with the last caller. i did try getting my hands dirty all of that back to back. this is the worst economy i have ever seen or dreamed of. when i was a kid, i never thought i would have this kind of dilemma and nothing is being

done about it. these immigrants that come here, they are not picking tomatoes anymore. they are taking jobs. host: are you employed? caller: i am a part-time worker. guest: that is an interesting trend. it is such a big issue for people. the economy may be creating jobs, it is not creating the good jobs people want to see. as long as that is the case, a lot of people will feel like elizabeth does. the economy is not right and it is not working for them. --need good economic product policy at of the federal reserve. people can not only find a job, but something that pays more than seven dollars an hour at your local store. aboutjanet yellen spoke this issue yesterday.

here is her outlook. [video clip] >> a portion of the decline we reflects arobably kind of shadow unemployment, a cyclical product of labor force participation. if that is correct, we may see that as the economy picks up steam and we see further recovery in the labor market, there is discouraged workers. they will return to unemployment or to employment and as labor force anticipation begins to stabilize, the on point and rate will come down less quickly. host: who were these discouraged workers? on a first friday of every month, the labor department puts on -- put out

its numbers. the first thing i look at is not just what happened to the unemployment rate or how many jobs were on american payrolls, but what was the composition in the change of unemployment. did it fall because more people peoples or because more counted themselves as part of the labor force and said they are looking for jobs? it is an important question. at just the unemployment rate does not give you the whole picture. janet yellen's point is that millions of americans have dropped out of the labor force and have said they are not looking for a job. i am sitting on the sidelines of the labor market, maybe they retire a little early or they live at home with their parents. they run the demographic gamut. what happens is the economy gets better and how many people are out of the job market entirely and how many will come back in? how many people, if they are in

their 40's or 50's, they are staying at home -- how many people are saying there are opportunities? they will look again. that will drive the unemployment rate up. it is an important point. all of us who care about the economy need to pay close attention to this. ist: one of the big debates how much power it has over some of these labor markets. what do you think the correct balance is between the fed's focus on unemployment and responsibility? we have gotten used to the federal reserve and other central banks having this vast power over society. in 2000 eight,is ben bernanke was coming up with a new program to try and fix the

banking system and try and stop the credit crisis that was happening. it has maybe created a distorted view on what their powers are and what they can really do. they control the supply of money the -- the economy. ultimately, their power is not to figure out the fix everything that is wrong in the labor market. they are trying to maintain full employment. they try to do that by tweaking these small dials. they are trying hard. we will hear from gregory in dayton, ohio. caller: hello.

i had two points. thatve to understand whatever the federal reserve , it does not or will not have an effect on the economy for we do not protect the middle class. if you eliminate the middle class, you have only the rich and the poor. this is definitely not good for america. , livingis getting jobs wage jobs, not worrying about this issue concerning minimum wage. that is an entry-level job. we need sustainable paying jobs familyle can feed their on. it does not matter what kind of formula or strategy the federal reserve comes up with. the monetary policy

that the federal reserve uses, a can be disrupted at any time. the country is living on ious anyway. if there is an issue that develops in the middle east, one issue can disrupt the entire economy of the world. right now, that oil is going to be the greatest disruption of the economies around the world once the islamic group gets control over the oil. that throws any policy or program in america out of whack. just like it did in 1974. host: thank you for your comments. a couple of important points. the turmoil in the middle east, what that means for oil prices, that is absolutely true. it would be damaging for the u.s. economy. it happened in the 1970's.

there is no question that will hurt. upestic energy production is and rising rapidly. there is no question -- if oil prices were to double or something, that would be damaging for the u.s. economy. the financial markets, they are not expecting that. people are expecting oil prices to remain stable. that is something to watch closely. on the other point that we need middle-class jobs, i think everybody would agree with that. this is one of the hurdles of having a recovery that is so dependent on policy out of the federal reserve. a limited set of powers and they have been using them as much as they can. those powers work through financial markets. doing this easing and buying all this money, is to drive up stock and asset prices. that is great if you own stocks.

you have had a great one the last five years. middle class, lower income americans tend to not have that kind of wealth. it had benefits for the overall economy, but those benefits are concentrated among the wealthy. this is an unfortunate side effect of a recovery driven by central banking activism. host: are there any ways you see federal reserve policy trickling down? guest: the effects are just not as powerful. when the stock market rises, businesses will be more confident and more likely to invest, build a new factory. that means hiring. anybody who has stock holdings may be more inclined to buy more stuff it a have that wealth. low mortgage rates have helped more americans. how many people do you know have been able to refinance your mortgage because these interest rates are low? that is because of fed policy.

that is a big deal for a lot of american families. policyre ways that the has been helping ordinary americans, the effects just have not been as powerful as we hope and if they had been, we would have a stronger recovery now. host: i want about turnover at the fed. janet yellen took over this year. there are new members as well. has she made her mark yet? guest: that is to come. to say she became the fed chair at the beginning of february, couple of new governors is now the number two. a former treasury official is also a former governor. they both just started. the federal reserve's policies have been on a course that was lasteder ben bernanke december. they decided to taper bond

buying and do about $10 billion by every meeting. by the end of 2014, we will be done. janet yellen has followed that plan. they have not converged. theyuestion is -- what did do next year? under janet yellen, when did they raise interest rates? not be fixed,y but we are ready to raise interest rates to get policy back to normal. that is the biggest decision she will make in her first term as fed chair. ton is it time to start withdraw and raise interest rates. people and markets think it will be sometime in 2015. that is the big test for janet yellen, getting the timing right. host: we will try to get in one final question. jim, louisville, kentucky. i would like to hear

your comment regarding the fact that housing has normally let us the previous recessions. it seems that we have young people today graduating with so much stupid debt -- so much student debt that it almost makes family formation and how spying an imposter -- and house buying an impossibility. debt whenhat level of i graduated, i would never have afforded a house. and pay that debt off as well. considering the fact that i had a good paying job when i got out of college. today's college kids are graduating with -- essentially into a low-paying environment and with a lot of debt.

you also have the kids that are going four years, dropping out, then they have debt and no degree. that is absolutely right. i did a piece a couple of months ago looking at why the housing market has not recovered and why home construction is way below its historical levels. is answer is what the caller talking about. a young adults are not forming households. there living with parents, roommates, they are not setting out and buying a home at the levels and rates they are used to. what jim refers to, the student debt overhang, is really a part of that story. ago, college was cheaper. if you had to take on debt, it was lower-level debt. student debt is a factor in this formation. fixing that is one of the keys to getting the housing market to strengthen and recover.

it is a real issue. people in washington are starting to pay attention to it. islizing that student debt more than just an issue that is on the micro level. it is also a macro issue. it affects the overall economy. tose young adults are key forming new households. if they are sitting on debt before they start out, that is a challenging situation. joining us you for today. that concludes today's show. we will see you tomorrow. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014]

>> it is election day. house republicans pick a new leader. eric cantor is stepping down at the end of july. the current republican kevin mccarthy is running against raul labrador. republican study committee chairman steve scilly, peter rossman and marlin stutzman of indiana. we will have results this afternoon. we have cameras on capitol hill. the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's room,