we as a task force is going to have to think through how to andte greater transparency take steps, in my opinion, to reduce many 68 million people in america are living with convictions, isn't that right? yes. >> 20 million have felony convictions which mathematically i gather would a leave of 8 million a with misdemeanors convictions. to look at this issue in terms of collateral consequences, has any work been done to look at the consequences associated with those convicted of felonies versus the consequences associated with those convicted of misdemeanors and is irrelevant for us to think through the issue in that fashion?

>> i think even looking at some of the legislation that is certainly, there always is this notion that, you know, first-time offenders, nonviolent misdemeanor are -- -- more often the subject of of legislation. but the fact of the matter is at some point, everybody is coming home. the vast majority of people are coming home. we need to be incorporating and prepared to embrace all of these folks. we all deserve a second chance. i would strongly suggest that as you think about how to set these guidelines and evaluate relevancy come a you include everybody including those 20 living folks who are with felony convictions. >> time has expired. the gentleman from georgia.

, mr. chairman. we need to reject wholesale divinization of every person who has a brush with the criminal law. hirsute who are released from whoon should be -- persons are released from prison should be given a sedative chance and enter into a new age of restoration and redemption. things that are in your conclusion. and i think those are very important ideals. that we should seek to live up to. ourselves aree overerpetrators of criminalization. certainly the legislators are responsible and certainly judges and prosecutors who both are

for,ed and are responsible you know, getting tough on crime and throwing the book at people and implementing the policies that we enshrined into law. , you arek you both both members of the bar. you are both attorneys. you are licensed to practice law. you know that when a person felony conviction and even a misdemeanor convictions in many states, they are barred from being able to be licensed to practice law. types believe that those of barriers which are collateral consequences, do you believe those should be removed from a

ability to get at law licensed? >> i think like any collateral sanction, they have to be looked at, the offense and offender. there are cases we have seen in ohio where the impediments have a been removed. somebody convicted of voluntary manslaughter or murder have become lawyers. we have seen with a lot lesser offenses. we have seen some cases where --ebody convicted of a safed theft or fraud was not a given the license in ohio. a parody also. a fairness and equity if we are going to have any collateral sanctions act all. >> you would be against blanket bans on all who have been convicted think in eligible to receive a license? >> i would think blanket bans do

not serve any public service. chris all right. that -- >> all right. -- i agree with you. >> mr. jones? agree. unless you can show me there is a safety benefit for a person to get a law license after they pass the bar, all lest there is a public safety benefit the ways of the individual being able to practice law, you should not ore that restriction mandatory ban. >> do you know of any initiatives by the aba or any state bar association to address that particular issue? either one of you? collateralproject of restrictions did not.

it was all the collateral consequences which as a monumental task. the particular issue you are talking about, i do not know of any. >> thank you. how did collateral consequences disproportionally impact communities of color and the poor? >> i think that just like we far, a disproportionate as as imprisonment is concerned. that goes along with it. collateral sanctions are attached to a conviction. i think that once you see the effect it has on the incarceration and imprisonment, you are going to see it on collateral sanctions. they have to do as it relates to employment and as a relates to having an income and housing really have an effect in that regard. >> the answer is profoundly. there are studies that show that

african-american man who have never been never had any trouble with the law at all or less likely to get a job in a similar situation with a white men with a similar conviction. african-american men are seven times more likely to be arrested for crimes particularly drug possession crimes in those communities as is the same. the impact of these consequences on african-american individuals, their families, and society is profound. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from tennessee. >> thank you, mr. chair. these issues affect my major way.s in a second chance opportunities is one of the things i hear most from constituents. somebody had a conviction sometime in the past and they cannot get a job. is the loss ofl

the right to vote. i did not know if it has been undressed extensive -- address extensively by you. do you know the history of that laws?ular those lost -- i was reading about civil death. that takes away your right to vote and everything else and "barbarous,bed as barbarism condemned by justice." we have these laws. does maryland have a law like that? >> i am not familiar with the maryland law. >> which states are you from? >> i am from ohio. >> i am sorry. they joined the big ten and i am confused. ohio does not have the law doesn't? >> no.

>> it is mostly southern states. the disenfranchisement of the right to vote, to me, it is so important in trumps everything. when you take someone's "does right to vote away and never give it back -- when you take someone's right to vote away and never give it back -- >> do you know the history of these? >> i have for my opinion. i do not know. by the history of disenfranchisement, by the time i get back to new york, i will know. >> i think that history goes back to jim crow. it was a southern thing. if you look at the states that they are thews, same states that justice roberts said no longer have to have preclearance because it is a wonderful world according to justice roberts.

fathom when you look at the history of discrimination in this country and look at in voting areas where you had preclearance and the states that put a scarlet letter on individuals who said, thou shalt not to vote. voting in my district, we had an election in may for clunky offices. very important. who weree people registered voters. my theory is if people who had convictions in the past were allowed to vote if they voted by their simple action of voting, that would show they were in the open -- upper 10% of the citizenry. analog inessee have was happy to sponsor and has that allows you to get your right to vote restored without going to court. house, ay in the

character put an amendment on the bill which passed and it's sad if you were behind in your child support you cannot get your right to -- and it said if you were behind in your child support, you cannot get your right to vote back. it had a disparate impact. that there are two states the task force ought to look like that allows individuals to vote while in prison and i think it is maine and vermont. believe that maine and vermont, somebody can correct me if it is wrong, those two states allow you to vote while in prison. that is right. >> which is the other states? >> maine. >> you have to eat a lobster or cheese at the same time.

[laughter] still have time to left. i will recognize myself for five minutes. hechtr. jones and mr. said we should repeal consequences that apply across the board. federal law prohibits anybody who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence from possessing a firearm. do you believe congress should repeal this law? >> as far as my position is concerned and gaba has not taken a position, we have to look again at the individual involved in the individual crime. for example, we have had cases of domestic violence that on my radar personally. something like child abuse, we take very seriously. when the domestic violence case,

we have to look if that person is an owner of guns? for did that person use a gun? umm, simple designation of somebody who owns a gun should never be them to own a gun needs to be looked at seriously. >> as opposed to using a gun and i have no problem with that person not allowed to use a gun. the current law which applies to misdemeanors as well as felonies is a good law? >> depending on the circumstance. it should not be across the board. >> it should not be across the board. >> mr. jones? across-the-board consequences should be rebuilt -- should be repealed. we should look at the denial of

opportunities to individual circumstances and individuals. it should not be across-the-board, automatic. ati am kind of surprised think the nra would agree with both of you on this. let me ask you another question. when i was first elected to congress, my wife and i owned a two family house that was across the street from the elementary school. and ie in one half of it rented out the other half. appliedbody came and and was a person who was a recognized minority applied to live in the other half and i found out that before leasing it to them that they were registered sex offenders. housing denial of because they were registered sex offenders, not because they were

persons of color or protective minority, be an offense in a fair housing complaint? >> not in ohio. they would not be allowed to live there. you lived across from a school? >> that is right. >> mp/-- no. there has been going on, and increasing in feet where a live.ted sex offender may it started out within so many feet of a school, of a bus stop, a daycare, so many feet of where children will be. that has become more broad. however, in the specific instance you mentioned, no. under ohio law am a that would not be permitted to live there. we have had cases like that. ordered people to move. and have gotten even action notices for people and orders to have to move out because of the

close proximity to schools. >> if i were accused of denying housing under state or federal fair housing law because i denied them the least because i lived across the street from the school in ohio, i could go to the district attorney and have to represent me against the complaint? ohio law, we cannot represent a ball we would stand right next to you from the standpoint. >> mr. jones? >> let me say two things about this issue. if you look in our report, you will see that not only prosecuting attorneys who work in the area and individuals responsible for administering registry's say the same things. the first is a new one is more

likely to be abused in that manner by someone within the four corners -- the four walls of their house in standby someone delivering the mail or cutting the grass. you are more likely to be molested or abused in some way by somebody under your roof. secondly, the majority of arrests and these types of cases are by first off-center spot stop the number of people who are sexual predators or serial offenders is very small. -- by first-time offenders. these prosecutors and people who run the registry's, what did they say are the folks do not make sense and are counterproductive because you are more likely to have a withem with uncle sam than the guy who is delivering your mail. >> my time has expired.

i want to thank all of the witnesses for your testimony and good answers to questions. thank the members for participating. does anybody wish to put a printed material into the record? gentleman from alabama? mic, please. >> i am sorry. i asked the permission to submit testimony from mr. jesse will on behalf of the fellowship. a ministry which offers his perspective on the challenges of reentering society after he served a sentence for a criminal offense. >> without objection. the gentleman from virginia. robert fony from kennedy center for justice and human rights. bernard carrick, lamont, carrey, anthony pleasant and the

innocence project. disenfranchisement of the united states, 2012. a lifetime of punishment and drug ban will be placed in the record. >> without objection. if there is no further business before the task force, the task force stands adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> e-house hearing on the influx of immigrants who received -- who came to the border. &a." "q live at 7:00, washington journal.

>> federal regulators are starting to focus attention on the rapidly growing e-cigarette industry. today, c-span will air portions from a recent senate hearings where democratic lawmakers accused the industry of marketing their products to kids. at the same year and, republicans said regulators should be mindful. here are some the comments of the comments by was verging you senator -- by west virginia senator rockefeller. thing isk this whole than it is all about the money. i think it is uncreative. i think it is nasty. it is like pornography in my mind. what is to pick from one or the other? maybe what you are doing is much more dangerous.

i am ashamed of you. i do not know how you go to sleep at night. i did not know what gets get you to work in the morning. except the color green of dollars. i have never said anything like that before, but i have never in my 30 years on this committee, have i ever heard testimony such as given by you sold to you and by you, sir. i want to send you to the middle east because you said we get good people together. you should go to the middle east and several that in a come back and talk to us more realistically. for you to, you are what is wrong with this country. is a good.fit motive is aimed atit something which is for the general benefit of the public

and that could be stretched a little bit. the public likes to be entertained. i cannot say professional basketball is necessary for democracy but people like it. let's go ahead. in your case, you do not have that be way. it is a matter of the dollars. the money you break -- rake in. the increase in advertising and you say it is only for the old dolls and not the children. everything that has come out of the hearing says otherwise. i think it is dreadful. >> we will explore proposed fda regulations on e-cig's with an ap reporter. today beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> you can keep in touch with current events from the nation's capital using any phone, any

time. simply call the number on your screen. and every weekday, listen to a recap of the events on washington today. you can hear audio of the networks beginning sundays at noon. -626-8888. housewednesday, a committee examined the search of unaccompanied migrant children. crossing the mexico border into the u.s. members of the house judiciary heard from federal officials about their response to the situation. witnesses including a representative from immigration and customs enforcement, homeland security board deputy priest.tholic

this is about one hour and 35 minutes. >> a good afternoon and we come. i will recognize myself. there is a tsunami of minors and adults traveling with minors arriving in unprecedented numbers. central american minors are making a perilous journey through mexico and walking miles across a hostile border environment assisted by smugglers and, to the united states in violation of the law. ,ccording to ronald vitiello who will testify today, to talk

to the department of homeland security and expects to the port 90,000 miners this year. 'se estimated numbers of uam 38%ained represents a 1 increase since 2011. in the apprehensions in 2015 represent a 2000%. arriving.just uam's it is also on dolls. familyber of apprehended 42,000as increased to four this year as of june 16. taking into account half of this undere have seen a one 43% increase in families apprehended at the border. increase in families

apprehended at the border. the administration said they are coming because of discord in their country. these factors have always played a role. andubtedly, seeing strife disadvantage countries along with seeing impoverished women and children showing up at our doorstep arouses the deepest of sympathies. however, the factors causing the unprecedented surge are very different than those claimed by the administration. a rio grande valley sector intelligence report tells a story that is strikingly different than the claimed humanitarian crisis the administration panes as responsible. the report summarized interviews conducted with hundreds of apprehended central american minors and quite frankly paints a very different picture of the situation. according to the report, when of

these individuals were asked why they made the journey to the united states, 90 5% indicated the main reason was to take advantage of the new eu as a law that grants a free pass or permit referred to as permissos two women traveling with children and unaccompanied minors. been enacted, this administration has altered immigration enforcement policy for stop the timing of change correlates closely to the uptake of individuals showing up at the border. word has gotten out at once encountered by agents and process thanks to the administration's last enforcement policies, one will likely never be removed. americasspread to the and beyond that if the obama administration has taken unprecedented and most loved unconstitutional steps in order to shut down the enforcement of

our immigration laws for unlawful and criminal aliens not consider high enough priority especially minors and adults with minors. the world seems to know that dhs refuses to enforce the law under the guise of prosecutorial discrimination. policies included many thousands of aliens who have been arrested by state and local law enforcement or convicted criminals but in removal proceedings and who dhs simply let back out onto our streets. these beneficiaries include those of minors and families who continued to arrive at our borders and the administration ushers in via a 100% refers -- into the united states and most are released into the hands that paid smugglers to bring them here in the first place. in addition, simply not pursuing removal, dhs has been granting

hundreds of thousand of these individuals administrative legalization and work authorization. dhs does is under many guises. under deferred action and parole in place. the effect has been described by "amer ice acting director as run-of-the-mill immigrant here illegally, your odds of getting department -- deport or close to zero." those arriving now know that. the director of a migrant shelter in mexico told news outlets and the children and families are encouraged to cross into the u.s. illegally because they think they will be given amnesty. "i remembersm said a little boy of nine years old and i asked if he was going to meet someone and he said, no, i will hand myself over because i hear they help kids." , a 13 year, robin

old said his mother believes the administration had quietly changed its policy about unaccompanied minors and he made it across he would have a better shot. in the meantime, central america media has an open door to the u.s. for minors and families based on information the committee has received, it seems the administration has known about the problem for some time. served on theo white house immigration advisory panel agrees. the fast-growing migration crisis from the media because they are trying to pass a very unpopular immigration rewrite." she indicated "that is the goal. they dids not do anything publicly and now they are in a stage where they

are failing we have to figure out a strategy." what is the that is administration is most afraid of is that the border surge will derail any talk of reform of the immigration laws. show thetements administration has made a fundamental miscalculation was a is failure to secure our borders, mitigate threats to national security or enforce immigration laws undermine congress' ability to reform immigration laws. it was easy to predict that people and south and central america and mexico would recognize a veiled invitation from the administration to send their children and families with little chance of deportation. these individuals know the administration policy of non-enforcement of our immigration laws is a golden opportunity for unaccompanied minors and families with minors to come to the united states most likely to be released with very little chance of ever being

removed. the administration's message is tragic because of the journey the administration encourages it is so dangerous and result in death and harm to so many miners along the way. -- it seemssaid our bordersiddles while they implode. i look forward from find out from the witnesses at what is the obama administration plans to do about the crisis and what solutions could work to end it. all witnesses many who are career law enforcement professionals for taking the time to testify. to recognize ake ranking member from michigan. mr. conyers. hoped we could have a balanced discussion about the root causes of this humanitarian crisis we are seeing play out along the south was border and

also begin to identify solutions to this pressing issue. some have already made their conclusions before even hearing the facts. about the surmises are made of. the name of the hearing seems to say it all. and administration made a disaster is to south texas border surge of unaccompanied alien minors. more strongly with the misleading titles such as this. by the arguments

just presented. my concern is not just the title unfairly attacked the president of the united states or that it presupposes a conclusion without substantial evidence of but that it also dangerously mischaracterizes the issue at hand. the increase and unaccompanied children apprehended along our southwest border in recent years is evidence of a humanitarian crisis unfolding in our region. support simply do not the claim that this administration's actions have somehow led to the current situation. flow of children across our south was borders is the symptom of the real

humanitarian crisis that is going on every day in the honduras, el salvador, and guatemala where most of these children come from. , thech of these countries level of violence is sky high and the ability to govern to protect its most abominable citizens-- vulnerable is terribly low. honduras has the highest murder rate in the world. and have had it for the last four years. el salvador and guatemala are close behind at fourth and fifth. even warnsepartment american citizens not to travel to the honduras and el salvador because of the level of crime and violence is critically high. and as a result, many people are fleeing to ask for protection of

broad. ifis important to note that they are not just heading to the united states. 2008, mexico, nicaragua, belize, panama, and costa rica % increase in12 asylum request. the number of children we are respect to the rule of law. our obligation to protect people fleeing persecution and that is a test that we must not fail. i cannot help but think of how we have responded when tens of thousands of haitians took to the seas in small boats and dangerous conditions after the c

oup that ousted the president. abodes andse returned people to face persecution without a fair asylum hearing. let's not repeat the mistakes of the past. situationhe current poses a greater challenge to our department of homeland security, health and human services, we must rise to meet the challenge and demonstrate our continuing support for the will of law. let us not forget the urgent issue in the background. we need to fix our broken immigration system. year since the a senate had a bipartisan,

comprehensive immigration reform that would bring much-needed relief to american families, businesses, and communities. am -- i just want to conclude by pointing out in the 12 months since the senate passed a bill, the house version hr 15 has gained the support of 200 cosponsors. the congressional budget office has reported that in these bills would jumpstart our economy and 00 decrease the deficit by $9 billion over 20 years. and public sentiment remains decidedly in favor of comprehensive reform. june andat the end of

haveer work period, we done nothing to achieve needed reform. what are we waiting for? i am ready to take a vote now. if that happened, i am willing a majority oft members of the house of representatives would vote right along with me. but the leadership in the house still blames their inaction on saying he cannot be trusted. the needed to fix our broken immigration system, thousands of children's flooding across our borders, humanitarian crises right in our backyard. these are difficult issues that cannot be explained, let alone solved by this simplistic

accusation and recycling of political sound bites. i am very discouraged. i will not stop. now is the time to lay down our legislative armor in political theatrics and do something simple because it is the right thing to do. and of course, if the house and fails to act, i supported the president doing what he can under current law to improve our broken system. either way, america is waiting. and i conclude my remarks on that note. >> chair thanks the gentleman and will turn to the chairman of subcommittee on immigration, the gentleman from south carolina. >> it is my pleasure to yield to

the chairman of the national security subcommittee on oversight and government reform. who has to done work on this issue as well as fraud in the asylum process. the gentleman from utah, mr. checketts. the onset, the obama administration has made it clear that classes of unlawful immigrants when not to be deported if caught. it created an atmosphere rash ofe to the current thousands of miners some coming with family members and many unaccompanied intervu from south of the border into the united states. -- ther to deal, the all obama administration said customs enforcement, ice, will expand the number of detention beds and will send lawyers and judges to the border to address those entering the u.s. illegally. the administration's plan to deal with it by failure of their

inaction will do little to solve the problem. many of the children and teenagers and of those are able to gain assistance or asylum because of the obama administration has severely weakened them. all of the administration plans to do will get adjudicated more quickly and miners and of those will be put on the fast track to be remaining in the u.s. unaccompanied alien minors are not subject to removal under current law and many if not a majority of them are eligible for relief. many of the miners and families arriving at so borders are claiming asylum. these miners can apply and will likely receive a asylum because it is just as easy. a reportttee obtained which showed that at least 70%

of the 70% off asylum cases have proven or possible fraud. in addition, approval rates are skyrocketing. members of gangs who renounce their membership allegedly are getting asylum. lastly, non-detained aliens who are denied our not likely successfully deported. they will first apply with a u.s. officer. approval rates of by a silo officers have dazzled by a asylum offices have increased. by asylum officers have increased. approved, it will be given to a judge. 51% to 74%.ved from combining these bytes of the apple, the vast majority of april -- the vast majority of aliens can seek asylum.

units caughtfamily at ports of entry can claim a credible fear of persecution to seek a hearing before a judge and receive work authorization while their case is pending. credible fear claims have been granted at ever-growing rates under the obama administration. data provided by the department of homeland security shows leadership and services makes positive, credible fear findings in 92% of all cases. credible fear claims have increased 580%. out of the gotten virtual rubberstamping of the application. it is more troubling because we have received reports of drug cartels and using asylum to bypass checks to get into the country.

expanding their operations in the united states. members engage in the sima violence fuse that caused them to flee mexico and other countries in the first place. information provided by dhs also details cartel members who enter after claiming they feared violence when they fell on grace with her "employers." families involved in job -- in drug trafficking came to the united states and begin targeting each other once here. dangerous criminals are getting in when they have often been perpetrators of the violence. administration wants to enforce the problem, they should enforce the immigration laws already on the book and work with congress on targeted fixes. i think the chairman. >> recognize that the ranking member of the subcommittee, the

gentlewoman from california. >> thank you. today's hearing is on a serious topic and it deserves a serious discussion. unfortunately, as mr. connors said, the title looks like some have made up their minds and if turn intod plan to another partisan attack. will be able to guess give this topic the consideration it deserves. in thes indeed a fight number of unaccompanied minor children apprehended along the southwest border although the 2011.se began in the rate of apprehension has increased sharply. we may apprehend as many as 90,000 kids during the current year and they have overwhelmed our resources to cope with it

down. in the past, the majority of kids coming alone came from mexico and they tended to be older. 16, 17-year-old boys. that is no longer the case. the current fight is driven almost entirely by children from three countries and what a chart here and you can see. the source of these children areng to the united states el salvador, guatemala, and honduras. hascurrent population changed as well. we do not have it on the chart. it contains a lot more girls and younger children than have a clue my in the past. it has been pointed out and all of us will agree, the journey to the united states is extremely dangerous and along the way, these children could be raped, killed, maimed, become victims of trafficking, extortion.

many of them know the dangers that they will face so we need to understand what it is knowing what to they face is causing them to come anyway. what is so horrible that is youg on in those countries would risk potentially be raped or traffic? refugee committee has taken a look of what is going on in these three countries and violencert a spike in by transnational criminal organizations. that news report indicates that officials in el salvador recently discovered a massive grave with the remains of children killed and dismembered elsewhere. in honduras, the public house report shows that children are on the rise. report ondepartment

guatemala, many hundreds of women and girls are killed each year. "in mostt notes killings, sexual assault, torture, and mutilation were evident. only 1%-2% resulted in convictions the bank -- convictions." the only country experiencing an increase a young people fling from these countries seeking protection as mr. collier mentioned. % increasebeen an 112 in asylum applications in mexico and belize. it is significant that there is no measurable increase of any source from children coming from these other countries. look at nick or walk well. there is no fight there. .- look at nicaragua

they are poorer than honduras and el salvador. there is no spike from these other countries. the majority is correct, there is somehow a change in policy which there has not been that has encouraged people to come to the united states, why only from three countries? why not the poor countries? in --k also that they you which is the most experience in dealing with refugee matters interviewed these unaccompanied children and they found out that 58% of them spoke of serious harm. remember last year we had a hearing on so-called asylum and chairman goodlatte asked whether it really had been a situation where things had gotten more dangerous in recent years.

it is obvious when it comes to honduras and the answer is yes. unfortunately, some tried to politicize the situation. the have argued administration is responsible for this humanitarian crisis and indeed the title is conclusion every in that respect. that ife the fact is the obama administration has set records in terms of deportation. i think we need to know that nothing has changed in terms of the law. looking back at the state of the order first97 court established that children should be released into the least restrictive environment because at the time, little children were being housed in the prisons with adults. we found out in the course found it unconstitutional and wrong.

introducedcolleague the homeland security act of codified the court settlement and said that unaccompanied children must be released into the least restrictive environment. the protection act that we all championed here cosponsored by mr. berman, our former colleague also signedd ileana into law by george bush and that ruling that will not put children into shackles. it is true that the government is not using expedited removal to support these children without an immigration hearing. why is that? the law prohibits it. they are followed what the law said they must do. ais is the law signed into

law when george bush was president and a republican congress. the original humanitarian crisis requires a regional solution. i am hopeful that some of the staff announced last week to theurage in the demand government of guatemala, el salvador, and honduras to take action to prevent the violence against the children. be lookingoing to closely at how we detained families. havehairman is correct, we a surge of families with young we know and we are as opening of additional facilities for those families to be housed. i am sure will recall, and the refugee act of 1980 as well as the reform and responsibility act of 1996 authored by congressman smith of texas, it is required that each

case to be reviewed closely and on a case-by-case basis and no person or child be returned to persecution or torture abroad. this crisis poses an enormous challenge that will not help us if we do not face it by suggesting that when we follow the law, we are somehow making up a new policy. in fact, we are following the policies that have guided us in treating children since 1997 and i hope will not play partisan games with this dangerous situation and i yield back. statementsr opening will be made a part of the record. we welcome our distinguished tamil today. , i willould all arise swear in the witnesses. you swear each of that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole

truth, and nothing but the truth? they all responded in the affirmative. i will introduce the witnesses. mr. thomas homan is the associate director for removal operations for u.s. customs enforcement and the department of homeland security. he has direct oversight of critical ice programs and operations to identify and arrest and attain and remove illegal aliens from the united states. he is a 30 year veteran of a law enforcement and has 27 years of immigration enforcement with a bachelors degree in law enforcement. he began his career as a police officer. mr. ronald vitiello is the deputy chief of the u.s. a border patrol. officer,ief operating he is responsible for daily operations of the border patrol and routinely reports to and assist the chief border patrol

in planning and directing enforcement and operations. deputy chief vitiello entered the border patrol in 1985 at the laredo station where he also served as a supervisory board agent and has been with border patrol cents. mr. chris crane serves as the president of the national immigration and customs 8 ofrcement counsel 11 federal employees. he has worked as an agent for the u.s. immigration and customs enforcement at the u.s. department of homeland security since 2003. prior, he served for 11 years and the united states marine corps. is an agent and serves as president of the national council serving 17,000 agents and support staff. in 1997, he brings with him more than 17 years of experience as an agent.

he was first elected president of the border patrol local in l centro, california in 2001 and was elected president of the tucson, arizona in 2010 where he served a two-year term. mr. judd is currently a border patrol agent station in maine. reverend mark j seitz was the popep of el paso by francis. he began his formation in 1972 at the holy trinity seminary in irving, texas and was ordained to the presumed by the diocese of dallas in 1980. he holds a bachelors of arts in philosophy and a masters degree in divinity and a master of arts degree in theology from the university of dallas. received a masters

in liturgical studies from st. john's. we welcome all of you and i ask that each witness summarize his testimony in five minutes or less. there is a timing light on your table and if the light switches to yellow, you have one minute to conclude. if it turns red, it is into. new york time is up. we welcome you again. we'll start with you mr. homan. >> good afternoon. the opportunity to testify today about u.s. immigration and customs enforcement role in addressing the influx of unaccompanied children along our south was a border, mainly the rio grande valley. we are determined to address the situation in a manner that is comprehensive, coordinated, and humane. there's a level four condition of readiness which was the first resources to bear.

on june 1, president obama pursuant to the homeland security act -- and to assure them ordination. this group includes the dhs and all of the components and health and human services, and the general service. secretary johnson has designated federal management, few gay to serve.- fugate to cbp begins the interview process to review documentation and determine if the child is accompanied by a parent or legal guardian. under the trafficking victims reauthorization act we refer to as tpra, and unaccompanied child may be permitted to withdraw his or her application or admission if they reprint shake -- repatriate immediately.

that is not true for the majority of children. according to the act they are required to be upon determining that an unaccompanied child, then notify the department of health and human services office of refugee resettlement. ice transports unaccompanied children. up safe to speed transportation, ice has additional aircraft.

ice is also using reverse escorting for unaccompanied children. parts of the other country are assisting transportation needs in the rio grande valley. this offers some relief to those officers that are working at an incredible pace. have primary and backup juvenile coordinator's who receive annual specialized trading -- training. has detailed more than 91 officers for their -- for the rio grande valley. ice continues to ensure that we have the resources we need to address the situation.

unifiedeveraging all groups to address the needs of these children. i thank you for this opportunity to testify. i look forward to answering your questions. >> thank you. welcome. members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today to discuss border protection in addressing the influx of unaccompanied children. the rio grande valley area of texas has experienced a rise of ofrease -- an increase illegal immigrant children. the recent germanic increases in unaccompanied -- dramatic increases in unaccompanied children is difficult to deal

with. are just over 2700 unaccompanied children and custody. the border patrol's rio grande sector has expanded. detailedident and personnel services. allowing the sector the flexibility needed to gain more effectiveness, situational awareness, and increase its footprint within its area of operation. these children are especially vulnerable population. arecompanied children generally separated from unrelated adults. they provided drinking water and medical assistance and food. designed orere not

services not in place to a comet a large volumes for large. of time -- to accommodate large volumes for large period of time. we are working with ice, hhs, fema, and other federal partners to improve conditions through the utilization of all three facilities to temporarily detain stagestage -- detain, unaccompanied children. public health screenings are being conducted. for all incoming adult and child the trainees, fema has destroyed -- deployed field coordinators.

to assist with the day-to-day care and recreation of the unaccompanied children pending transfer to hhs. i must commend the work fema has done. the fema team has greatly improved the conditions for our workforce and our children. assistance from nongovernmental and charity organizations is that a big impact on the need. the additional support in the support forprovided the lawmakers and caretakers. employees are absolutely committed to making sure these children are treated in the most respectful and humane way possible under the present circumstance. agents have stepped up to work with this problem with

dedication and professionalism and are to be commended. patrol continues to work around-the-clock the clock to address the humanitarian situation. i thank you for this opportunity to testify today and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you. >> good afternoon. before congress discusses changes to immigration law related to legalization, it must first ensure that the appropriate enforcement safeguards are in place. that is the lesson that must relearn from the humanitarian crisis taking place on our border. corroborate that the majority of an eventual's illegally entering the united states are motivated more by rumors of amnesty than the situation in their respective

countries. many reporters have confirmed this information through their own interviews. if the administration continues current policies, it can expect the crisis to escalate and other problems to emerge. people in impoverished countries don't read our laws or policies. heed to note -- pay no cut off dates. without appropriate law enforcement safeguards in place will continue to draw millions like a magnet at our southern border. the most humane thing we can do to deter crises like this one is to consistently enforce our nation's immigration laws. since the crisis started over a year ago, ice employees have been overwhelmed. ice leadership attended to adjust, but due to limited manpower, it had limited effect. as a result, employees have worked day and night since the

early stages of the situation. , otherseverity increases facilities are now existing and experiencing similar -- assisting and experiencing similar workloads. ice officers are transferring hundreds of children, family childrend adults and to points across the nation. , borderice officers operations in the rio grande valley would have quickly broken down. ice transport planes have been so heavily used that two additional planes have been leased. 60-120 officers from around the commercial aircraft daily, escorting groups of children for placement with the office of refugee ice officers are scrambling to

process, transport, and provide space and response to the crisis and support border patrol operations. this crisis is placing a tremendous strain. transferredanently some officers to the border and temporarily detailed others. ro iss crisis robbins, e experiencing manpower losses. , the newample detention center established this week in new mexico will be managed by ice officers from other locations within the u.s. officers in other programs, such

as the criminal alien program and secure communities, our poll daily from the public safety dailyns -- are pulled from their public safety missions. since 9/11, the border patrol erotripled in size while has become smaller. is responsible for the detention, transportation, and removal of aliens apprehended by ae border patrol making ero critical border patrol asset. it struggles to perform its mission as it is undermanned. isnow the border security important to every member of congress and i hope that my testimony today regarding helpfuls mission is in clarifying the issue.

ro cannot continue in its current state, drastically understaffed with morale plummeting. , funding hasme been recommended for single officer position at ero. in doing so, the appropriations committee has taken a first step in proving the law enforcement effectiveness of ero. thank you and that concludes my testimony. i testify before you today from a law enforcement perspective. in my 17 years in the border patrol, i have seen how policy can directly affect board up security -- border security. this crisis is the culmination of a variety of errors,

including but not limited to the catch and release program -- this program is bad policy and encourages people to enter the united states illegally. this policy, individuals know they will be released if apprehended. the result is that no one is afraid of breaking the law. 90% of unaccompanied minors are being placed with a family member or close family friend, many of whom are in this country illegally themselves. although unaccompanied minors are still subject to deportation, we have to be honest with ourselves. most will never honor the notice to appear and face deportation. under sequestration, border patrol manpower was decreased by 5%. means thatfe impact we effectively lost about 1100 agents. decrease did not go

unnoticed for those trying to enter the country illegally. time to try. third, organized crime's ability .o quickly adapt to changes our borders are always under attack from drug cartels. they are very skilled at exploding our weaknesses. many of the same cartels responsible for the violence in central america are making hundreds of millions of dollars smuggling unaccompanied minors across the border. if efficiency and safety were the goal, it would make more sense for the it cartels to transport unaccompanied minors hrough the u.s.

the cartels purposefully cross toween points of entry facilitate other lines of business, such as drug smuggling and smuggling of known criminals and the united states. business for the cartels. it has been reported that nearly 40% of our manpower is being pulled from the field to process and care for those in our custody. this decrease has stressed our workforce to the breaking point and makes it nearly impossible to effectively patrol the border and fight against organized crime. the question is what we need to do to address the crisis. and the catch and release policy. nd the catch and release policy.

we know from experience that once released into the community , the chance for minors to appear in court a small. we need to follow through enforcing the laws of the nations of the breaking the law carries consequences. do not grant special status. be crystal clear that they will not be rewarded for breaking the law after being arrested. oureed to knowledge that immigration policies over the last 30 years have been inconsistent. if we're to stop this latest crisis, we have to change the cost-benefit analysis. address manpower shortfall immediately.

drawn breaking legislation will change the efficiency while also saving money. -- groundbreaking legislation will change the efficiency will also saving money. we have already discussed or lack of consequences has encouraged a new flood of illegal immigration. by the same token, it is lack of consequences is encouraging illegal immigration. we already have laws on the books that will stem the flow. onlyer, these laws are good as a deterrent if they are consistently enforced. solution, butngle i believe a fix is well within our reach. real.manitarian crisis is many agents try to contribute in their own way and spend our own

money in the end, the current crisis needs to be addressed with consistent enforcement of the laws we are ready have enter adequate manpower at the border. we must change the cost benefit analysis so that the rewards and incentives are less appealing. i want to thank you for the opportunity to testify and i look forward to answering any of your questions. >> thank you. >> good afternoon. thank you for the opportunity to testify on unaccompanied children entering the united states. i have been called to serve the church is a bishop of a diocese on the border. my challenge is to apply the gospel teaching of jesus to present-day situations. in visiting with his children -- these children, i witnessed the human consequences of the

violence they have endured. tests the moral character of our nation. it is a test we must not fail. other nations are watching how we handle this matter. our moral authority in the world is at stake. let me say up front that the u.s. catholic the ships support the right of our nation to control her borders and to enforce the rule of law. shouldon to our country be orderly, safe, and controlled , consistent with the common good. this is why the u.s. bishops have supported the reform of our immigration system so that the laws can be restored in a humanitarian manner. the current challenge we are

facing is driven by factors in central america and mexico, most specifically the rise of violence against children allnted by organist come in my, including drug cartels. impunity,ith threatening children and forcing them. there are more young children arriving, many more young girls, 13 or younger. while there are a variety of ongoing factors including poverty and family reunification, violence is the straw that stirs the drink. unlikely wet is would see such large numbers of unaccompanied children on our doorstep. , there mustg-term be a concerted effort to address the root causes of this exodus, specifically the rampant violence in the region.

of this effort, humane reintegration practices and prevention programs would complement antiviolence efforts. for the short-term response, we recommend the following. unaccompanied children should be expeditiously placed in child friendly shelters and not warehouse to in border facilities. families should not be detained and restricted, but placed an alternative community settings. legal proceedings should not be short-circuited and undermined due process. unaccompanied children should be appointed counsel so they can navigate a complex legal process. case management support should should be provided to children for their safety and to ensure they appear at the legal proceedings. sufficient funding should be provided to care for these

children so that federal agencies to not have to raise other budgets, such as the refugee budget. pastoral services should be provided for the children and families, including visitation by priests, ministers, and other religious. i would like to relay one story of why children are fleeing their homes. in november, i led a delegation of the u.s. conference of catholic bishops to visit el salvador, guatemala, and mexico to look at this phenomenon. we been many children who told us their stories. detaineenter for children in mexico, we met two 17 who were5 and clean-cut and respectful. they had recently arrived from under us, a city with the highest murder rate in the world , higher than kabul, afghanistan or damascus, syria. organized crime members had attempted to recruit them and

had told them that they and their families would be killed if they did not cooperate. the family consisted -- insisted that they leave. they said they would try again. any risks they faced seemed like a better option than returning to their home. this is typical of many of the children coming north. it also shows the decisions faced by parents and families unable to put act their homes and communities. this is brought home to me by a mother who told us, i would rather my child die on the journey seeking safety in the united states than on my front doorstep. ask you toon, i consider the individual stories of these vulnerable children

migrants and open your minds and wasts to their plight seeking meaningful and long-term solutions. to theou to respond needs of these children, not to turn them away or ostracize them. americans are compassionate people. we should not turn our back on these children. i would like to enter into the record the following documents. five e-mails from ice removal operations regarding 100% reverse escort, unaccompanied minor runaway cases, issuance of notices to appear, and unaccompanied minor daily reporting broadcast message. a fema senior leadership brief, a dhs unaccompanied minor fact and the four charts resented today. -- iwould -- to your right

would like to ask unanimous consent to include in the record that e-mails sent to all members of congress and their staffs on a congressional tour to the temporary shelter at the naval whichn ventura county in it says no recording devices, no in thens, no interaction photography. >> without objection, that e-mails will be made part of the record. unanimous like to ask consent to place the following ,tatements into the record statements from the first focus campaign, human rights first u.s. committee for refugees and immigrants, the romans refugee commission, the episcopal church , the american immigration lawyers association, the chart showing the various numbers of children coming from various

central american companies -- countries. first of all, i would ask unanimous consent to include into the record statements from united nations high commission for refugees, children on the run. i would like to put into the record a letter to president mentions.ma that >> those documents will be made part of the record. i will begin the questioning and i will direct the first question to mr. patel oh and mr. judd. yesterday, the white house press secretary challenged republicans

saying that we should back for comprehensive immigration reform package that passed the senate last year and is strongly supported by president obama. unfortunately, these statements show the administration's lack of understanding of the issue. the failed to secure the border mitigates threats or enforce immigration laws only undermine congress ability. the senate bill does not contain any provisions that address the problems in current law that would allow us to address the current surge at the southern border. we can line border patrol agent's sole shoulder to shoulder and it would not matter due to this policy. if the point is to apprehend aliens to ensure the return to home countries not provide them a golden ticket into the united states, i will start with you. and then go to mr. judd. the question is, isn't the point to ensure that the

return to their home country, not provide them a golden ticket into the united states? >> the work is to interdict people at the point of entry. >> the question needs to be asked, why are they entering between the point of entry, why are they going to the points of entry? it would be easier. it would be a lot less dangerous. if we line our border and were arresting these people and taking our manpower, we are opening up holes for criminal cartels. that is what we are doing. commitment toged border security is irrelevant because the way the laws are written and because of the administration's credible fear of persecution and asylum policies, the more border patrol agent we send to the border, the more possibilities agents have to turn themselves over to them so that they can then be released into the country on the promise of appearing at an immigration court hearing your

stone the road. is that an accurate summary of the situation? >> our agents are arresting these individuals and we turn them over and what happens from there -- we are seeing what is happening, but again, from an enforcement standpoint if we arrest them and we are letting them go, we will continue to see more. 47,000 unaccompanied alien minors have arrived in the first six months of this year, it is not just unaccompanied alien minors who are arriving. adults taking the long minors are also coming. number of family units has increased from 13,000 to 42,000. inhave seen a 143% increase family separate handed at the border since 2012.

dhs has less than 100 beds for family detention. these families are usually released. youthsmembers of these who arrived earlier may have received prosecutorial discretion and work authorization. to what extent do you think this has caused families to come to the united states in violation ?f the law to what extent do you think that the families who have arrived earlier may have received prosecutorial discretion and work authorization have caused families to come to the united states in violation of the law? >> i can't speculate on why everybody's entering the country. to border patrol because they do the interview and they are processing them. i don'tnow what i read have the direct contact with the aliens. they do enter, you

only have 100 beds for them. >> i have 96 beds. 42,000 people. that's kind of cramped, isn't it? six -- 96nine the family beds is all i have. >> thank you. >> i would say that it is ridiculous. way to enforce the laws of the united states if we don't have bed space to hold the families that we apprehend. >> and a standard you're a career law enforcement official. we are just trying to understand the operational realities associated with poor policy decisions. part of the white house' mantra is that everybody is being put into removal proceedings. yet, as reported by the new york times, that doesn't mean much when some will wait years for the first court date. then there will be procedural

moving and posturing that will last years, even if the aliens show up for their court date, which many will not. but the time a removal order is issued, what these individuals be so low on the totem pole for removal that ice has stated priorities that they will never actually be under the stated priorities of ice that they will never actually be removed -- is that the case? >> every unaccompanied child and family and a member are served with and scheduled to be put in front of an immigration judge. they have their proceeding scheduled, but it is years out. there was a lack of immigration judges. it can take two years, it can take five years. >> isn't it true that ice has been able to remove less than 2000 unaccompanied alien minors 2011, as we have seen the surge taking place? when we looked at all of the

unaccompanied alien children in the last five years, 87% of them are still in proceedings. we have nonfinal orders. >> as we have listened to the story unfold, many, including some of the witnesses today say that we can only stop the migration flow by changing the cost benefit analysis made by these children. off with you,art o and askief patelli might it nottion,

that the possibility of coming to this country is motivated by a huge fear of that many ofdeath these children have in their , an attitudes shared by their parents as well frequently? seen,the reporting i have there are several factors, violence and conditions at home as a mun of one of the top, correct. -- among one of the correct -- one of the top, correct. do you have any reason to

believe that your organization well, thel -- as enforcement and removal operations are all working in good faith with homeland inurity to do their best terms of an incredibly dangerous situation? >> so we have done quite a bit to improve conditions on the help and helpma's from the coast guard and office of health affairs. we are doing the best we can given the situational space. >> is there any assurance that you will be getting even further assistance? >> we have gotten quite a bit of help from fema and the interagency coordination directive and the national response framework continues. increased transportation, detention, and

increased places for placement. reports that the number of unaccompanied children from nicaragua that have been apprehended by border patrol for this fiscal year is 164. does that comport with your records or knowledge? >> i don't have that number in front of me, but i know that the number from nicaragua is small in comparison to the other three. >> thank you. how do we deal with a problem of these huge, vulnerable populations from these three

countries, el salvador, guatemala, and honduras, and have to recognize that from other countries around come we don't have the same numbers? doesn't that seem like some kind of discrepancy to you or an anomaly that mean -- we might want to inquire into? >> yes, mr. conyers. you begin by asking how do we deal with an issue so large? be ad deal of prayer would good idea is my first answer. it is a huge challenge that we face. i think it is so interesting that when you look at the countries that nicaragua is involved in -- it is the one thing we can distinguish that is different in nicaragua from those other three is the presence of pervasive violence

within those countries. part of the response has to be ,hat we need to do what we can both church and our government to try to bolster the ability of these governments and communities to deal with the ,ncredible levels of violence unimaginable levels of violence that these families are facing. yourwant to thank you for comments. i also want to thank the entire for the seriousness with which they approach the gravity of this incredible circumstance of young people who are risking and are exposed to all kinds of unimaginable dangers in terms of a risk of

trying to get to this country. -- do youservation have any information that our government could in any way be aiding or encouraging them to come to this country? we will allow a brief answer. >> i don't have any answer right now. >> if they have answers, the consummate them in any time. -- they cancognize submit them at any time. the chair recognizes the gentleman from north carolina. what consequences specifically would you like to see put in place to stem the flow of unlawful aliens into the entire country? >> i think the consequences

matter. when we were struggling with levels of illegal migration in tucson, we did a lot of work to classify people as they were being opryland did -- apprehended. >> these were juveniles? >> the problem into some was much different, these were adults and mostly from mexico. what we are working on together in the interagency specifically with ice's help us to increase attention for family units. the bishop's suggestion is always in order. prayer should not be cast aside. i want to ask you this. we have been reading a lot about these juveniles coming to the border. when did this start? >> i think we have seen an

increase over the last several years. this year is much different than anything we have seen previously. typically in the last several , the high levels of traffic would have leveled off, if you will, in the spring. this year, it has not. has enforcement been relaxed during this time -- >> has enforcement been relaxed during this time? >> it has not. >> let me ask you this, i'm not sure how to phrase this, whoever can answer this, to what extent has the benin increase in gang entry been an increase in gang entry be the juveniles are adults? >> that is always a concern for law enforcement and agents in the field. a markedot seen increase in the number of people who are gang affiliated or with criminal records during this

influx. know much of mexico is gang infested. i didn't know how much there may have been. does anybody else want to put into these waters? >> what we have to look at is that most of these unaccompanied minors are coming across in giving themselves up. the gang members to not come across and give themselves up. we're seeing an influx in unaccompanied minors. there could be an increase in gang members, but because our workforce is so stressed and we are creating the holes, it is becoming much easier to smuggle those that would do harm to our country through the holes that are being created. the questions have to be asked. why are they presenting themselves at ports of entry, at secure locations, instead of going through dangerous desert terrain across rivers, over fences? they could easily go to the ports of entry and present

themselves there, ask for asylum, and receive the exact same thing that they would be getting through going through the desert. but they are not going to that. they're stressing our resources. >> i'm wondering if the parents were told, send your kids to america and we will take care of them and they relied upon this to their detriment. does anybody know any more details about that? what they were told, when they were told, if they were told? bishop? that some folks, coyotes, have been building up that possibility. there is no question about that. again, from what we have seen and heard, the main reason that they are deciding to leave and still face the tremendous dangers that they face on the

journey is because they don't feel they have any other choice because of the violence. >> i yield back. >> the gentleman from new york. >> before i start my questions, let me first express my dismay at the title of this hearing. this is a farce. you announced the conclusion before the inquiry. we are here presumably to find out what is going on and why we had this urge at the border. but the conclusion is announced in the title. the conclusion i believe is wrong. nonetheless, a proper title should be -- might be a disaster or a problem at the border. instead of saying it is the administration's fault. maybe it is.

i don't think so. but that is the conclusion. it is wrong to have a hearing with the conclusion announced before you start the testimony. you have talked about the dismaying violence. we have heard that the immigration policy is responsible for the recent wave of unaccompanied alien children entering the united states, that these kids are making a sophisticated cost-benefit analysis and they're determining that if i get into the united aates, i probably won't have hearing for a few years, you probably will be in a bed somewhere, i might as well truck across the desert and come here. how would you respond to the assertion that what is causing

this urge and kids coming your unaccompanied is the administration policy, deferred action for childhood arrival, as opposed to the violence in these countries that we hear about? >> from what i have sinned, there hasn't been a significant change in recent months in administration policy. , there what i have seen hasn't been a significant change in recent months in administration policy. what has changed is the violence on the ground in these countries. honduras,ris, -- in the population is something like 8 million. the number of children being killed each month has been in the last couple of years around 70 children. in the month of may, it was 102. gangs andhat

narcotraffickers are choosing to to pullhildren and try them into the gangs to cooperate. >> are we seeing an increase their similar increase -- in unaccompanied youth fleeing to other countries? >> that is what one would expect if it were owing to poverty and administration invitation. as i mentioned and what others did as well, nicaragua come which is poorer than those other countries has not seen a change. >> you misunderstood my question. in the three countries where the violence is, have we seen an increase in kids fleeing their for places other than the united states? >> yes, we have. we have seen huge increases.

the chart that was up earlier shows that, the countries that are receiving -- such as panama, belize, nicaragua itself a receiving many more asylum seekers. 400 some percent. >> this would be consistent with the conclusion that the increase in kids coming here and other places is because of violence, not because of administration policy. , would you say anything to disagree with what the bishop was just discussing? whyhere any evidence -- should we not reach a conclusion that the increase in kids, unaccompanied kids coming to the border and presenting themselves , why should we not

believe that this is because of the violence and that it is because of some administration policy? theiolence is one of contribute in factors, but there has been some confusion reported by the media in these locations. it is important to recognize that the secretary did write an opinion piece for an editorial to the families of people in these countries to tell them that there isn't this benefit that may be smugglers and the media is promoting that don't exist. >> is there any real evidence -- >> time has expired. >> finish the question. that thestion is entire purpose of this hearing

is that it is administration policy on deferred action for childhood arrivals. are you aware of any evidence that it is that as opposed to violence? in the ascending countries? >> i work for the border patrol. we are the ones that arrest them up front. would we have to do is we have to interview these individuals that we arrest. one of the things we have to ask , we have to ask what is the credible fear. tell usmes, they will that they're coming here to be reunited with her family or they have been told that they will be released if they come. , thein the interviews initial interviews that take place with the agents and those people that we arrest, they are telling us that they're coming here because the radio is telling them that if they come they will be released, the churches are telling them the same, other organizations are telling and advertising. these are the initial interviews

that are taking place. they are documented. they are documented. they are a matter of record. >> the time has expired. chair announces that there is a series of votes on the floor of the committee. the committee will reconvene following the votes. the chair will now recognize the gentleman from alabama. >> bishop, i have worked very closely with the catholic church on debt relief and had the debt relief bill and the house. i have spoken out for milliontion of 12 immigrants that are here. i have spoken out for the need to have some pathway to citizenship for our dreamers. i have criticized the alabama

of the was probably one only public officials the criticized it as being an overreach. establishedve an immigrant friendly position. with thech sympathize fact that we are a country of immigrants. i am curious. from children are coming honduras, guatemala, el salvador -- some from axa co. -- -- mexico -- but the catholic church and the think you all -- i think your statement, you the largest refugee resettlement is thein the world -- church undertaking any effort to discourage these children from

taking these long journeys? are you speaking out in these countries, the church, the bishops, the fathers? >> very much so. during a mission to central america, we spoke to many groups that are working with the children and the youth in these areas. their universal message is don't go. that is personally a message that i have conveyed when i have been there, speaking to young people. to do what we can to stabilize their situation. believe itprogram, i is organized by catholic release -- relief services, which is working directly to help children who are at risk. they have been very successful. >> i think even speaking out against the jug trafficking, the

would be the church very effective in doing that. pro-immigration, anti-immigration, you don't want these children being sent unaccompanied. even with the governments, i don't know if the catholic church in countries like mexico, these countries, they have quite a bit of political clout. even going to the president of mexico and saying, you are allowing trains to come here, freight trains with children offing off them, hanging the tops. that could be stopped. i would think a minimal government effort could stop a lot of that. i cannot imagine the mexican government not being able to stop children on their border. aknow some of this is just force and a demographic.

>> we certainly don't encourage them to make the journey. at the same time, i think we have to recognize that if these children feel that their life is in danger, they may well feel -- >> are there ways to offer those children a place of refuge within those countries? where the catholic church has a large presence? ,nd conference -- in convents and places -- we have boys and girls ranches here, places of that nature. >> we have a large presence but limited resources. we are trying to do the best we can with the resources that we have. what i am saying. wouldn't it be safer if they stayed? i wish the church and i am not speaking -- i wish we all would say, is there a way to stabilize

the situation there. -- if they make it to the united states, you offer them shelter and refuge. that almost, in a way, and i know it is not your intention, but does that create somewhat of a magnet? >> when they arrive in the united states, i don't think we can say, i'm not going to show you compassion. i'm going to leave you on the street because i don't want to encourage anyone else. we have to care for the situation as it is. encourage yout because they going to continue to do so, that their least be an effort -- i'm speaking to the choir. >> thank you, gentlemen. >> i would ask unanimous consent to submit for the record from

escort services for unaccompanied alien children noting that they are expecting 65,000 unaccompanied children in the months ahead. this was in january of this year. objection, it will be made a part of the record and the committee will stand in recess after the camus the -- after the votes. make yourself comfortable to vote to rid -- vote. we will reconvene probably close to 4:00-430. the committee will stand in recess. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] cracks up next -- >> up next, q

and a with daniel shulman. calls and comments on "washington journal." i learned as secretary of state to expect the unexpected. nobody expected the so-called arab spring until it was upon us. we have to learn to be agile and ready for the unexpected. while we try to build the world we want, especially for our children, and now for my future grandchild. we have got to be aware of the fact that all of these other countries, all of these billions of people, they are making hard choices every single day. we have to be ready for that. because i am absolutely convinced that we have to

continue to lead the world into the kind of future that we want. we can't sit on the sidelines. we can't retreat. we are going to have setbacks and disappointments. story hasime, our become the dominant story. it represents the hopes and aspirations of people everywhere. that is what i want americans to understand and the main reason why i wrote this book, i know there's a big debate going on about our role in the world and we have some real unfortunate consequences still to deal with from prior decisions and the like, but we cannot abdicate our responsibility. how we define it, how we execute it will be the stuff of political debate. but the world needs us, america matters to the world. the world matters to america, for our prosperity and our security and our democracy. clinton spoke with us

about her decision-making process and the perceptions of the united states around the globe and some of the decisions she had to make as secretary of state. the full interview airs on book tv. ♪ this week, daniel schulman, author of "sons of wichita. koch >> a lot of people

associate the koch brothers. frederick koch is the oldest and this is really the tale of a historic industrial dynasty. i thought in the 2010, 2011 time frame you see charles koch a caricature of who these guys were. and once i started to peel back the layers of that a little bit look into their family background i said, wow, this is a really politics may be that's the least interesting thing about this family. in my mind i see them in the