koch brothers. frederick koch is the oldest and this is really the tale of a historic industrial dynasty. i thought in the 2010, 2011 time frame you see charles koch a caricature of who these guys were. and once i started to peel back the layers of that a little bit look into their family background i said, wow, this is a really politics may be that's the least interesting thing about this family. in my mind i see them in the

mold of the rockefellers and the carnegies in the sense that their legacy will extend in so many ways beyond our lifetime. >> are they alive? >> yes. >> i want to show the cover of the book and ask you a little bit about each one of the four. as we look at the book cover we see fred who is 80-year-old born august 6, 1933. what you can say? >> he was the eldest and not interested in the family business. he has been a patron of the arts and he spent a lot of his life rehabilitating a series historic homes around the world including this former wall worth mention

-- former wall worth mention -- woolworth mention and he was kind enough to give me a tour of this home that he doesn't live in. he's got an apartment that he lives in. this is his private museum where he has all this phenomenal artwork. he also spent a lot of his life collecting what you might call artistic efeminae. henry miller's first manuscript drafts of "tropic of cancer" these sorts of things that are really give you a lot of insight into the artistic process extra lot of these are collected at yale's library. >> you wrote near the end of the book, he lures himself into an arm chair in a second room sitting room. he has not spoken to the press in 25 years since the british descended on him like a pack -- i'll get it here. like a pack of wolves. even before that he refused all interviews as his younger

brothers savaged one another. shall we delve into the koch world he asks. but first a formality. he withdraws a crisp document. it requires all writing pertaining to frederick r. koch including personal subject matter be submitted for his approval. that is you he's talking to. >> yes. >> what was your reaction when that happened? i think my heart stopped for a few moments because this had come after a lengthy -- we had spoken by phone. we had -- had given me a lengthy tour of his home and of course this wasn't something that i was going to be able to sign. essentially what happened was we had a little bit more back and forth and could not come to an arrangement that he was comfortable with. so that's more or less where our

communication stopped although he did respond to my fact checking questions when it came to that part of the process. >> how involved is he in the whole koch world? >> you know, he's kind of always been somewhat on the outskirts of his family. he went to boarding school. all the brothers went to boarding school but he went to one at an early age. he went to hackley in new york and he would come back on school breaks and things like that, but he never got involved with the family company. the other three brothers did and so he was a bit of an outlier and in his father's eyes he was a disappointment. frederick had stolen from his father on a come of occasions including once forging charles's name on the charge account.

>> you quote saying he's gay and then a parenthetical expression you say frederick says he's not. >> right. >> why is that an issue? >> he says he's not gay. people that are close to the family say certainly say differently and it's been reported elsewhere that he is. but i just think frederick should have the last word on that if he says he's not gay then that's what he says about the matter. >> he didn't get any money from his dad? >> he did. he in fact -- two trusts were created for him in the 19 sixties and he ended up with about 14% of koch stock in what would be koch industries. the other brothers shared about 20% stake. each have a 20% stake in the company. but frederick was cutout their father's will.

>> in the end how much money did he get? >> he ended up -- when he ended up selling his shares in the company he got $330 million. >> let's go back to the cover of the book. which one on this cover is charles? >> charles is upper right. >> and he was born in 1935. he's 78 years old and went to m.i.t. >> yeah. charles goes to m.i.t. and gets two advanced degrees including one in nuclear engineering. he is a budding libertarian at this point and decides that working in the nuclear sector means he's going to be under the thumb of government for his career. and he bocks at that notion. he grew up in his father's shadow and always the air apparent and went to work for a consulting firm in boston and really enjoys being out on his own and making his own career and making his own way.

their father in the sixties is sort of poor health and had heart problems and this is something that runs on their side of the family. his mom had died of congestive heart failure. and fred wants to hand over the company to one of his sons -- >> fred is the father. >> and calls charles several times to come home and take a job with the company. charles says no at first and finally basically his dad makes him an offer he can't refuse. he says i'm going to sell the company and start working here. so he does that. and he really makes growing koch industries at the time it was called something else, but after their father dies in 1967, charles renames the company in his honor. and he really makes his full focus growing this company.

you know, today he's grown it so much beyond what his father would even recognize.

on the same compound where he grew up. >> and he is 78. let's go back to recover.

nan now the twins. each one on this cover is built? >> bill is bottom right corner. >> can you tell us about him? he is 74 years old. bill got a phd in engineering from m.i.t.. he ends up joining the family company in 1974. always been sort of a awkward, and he had some childhood resentment against his brothers, david, and especially charles. this derived in part from the fact that charles and david were always quite close, and bill a third and lesser wheel. >> and he is a twin. >> he is the paternal twin of david, and he felt growing up have a lots used to

of resentment and hostility between the twins and provoke fights between them. when they were growing up they got into some real battles. some of them were so fierce that they had a property foreman that used to carry around boxing gloves with them and when these guys got into it you would put their boxing gloves on and so they did not injure each other. >> where does bill live and what did he do for a living? >> bill lives in palm beach and he has created a successful energy company. this was after he was ousted after anfamily company attempt to take over the board of coke industries. of kochhe have the -- industries. he and david were able to bury the hatchet after many years of what has to be one of the most brutal family feuds in history.

>> we will get to that in a minute. here is video of bill talking about what his company does. >> i am in a business where we make real money. we have some gas drilling. petroleum, thell waste product from refineries, some sulfur. we do business, 100 different countries, and we have 40 different offices in 40 different countries. $3 sales are about between billion and $4 billion, and our compound annual growth rate since 1984 has been 26% are year. >> what are his politics? >> the interesting thing about bill is he can often be associated with his brothers politics. he did give quite a bit of money to mitt romney in the 2012 campaign, but i would not

pigeonhole him as a republican or as a libertarian. he once considered running for senate as a democrat in kansas. democrats andn to republicans over the years. david, the twin brother -- on the cover, where is he? >> in the upper left-hand corner. >> tell us about david. >> he was really a gifted athlete. theet records at m.i.t. on m.i.t. basketball squad that were only broken in recent years. goes to work outside the family company after graduating from school. he wanted to prove himself and learn in another chemical engineering company. he goes to work for coke industries -- for koch

industries in 1970 for what was called koch engineering. david for many years had a reputation as a bit of a playboy grade he did not get married until well into his 50's. but he has the reputation as an affable guy, sociable guy, and partner in charles' growing this massive company over the past decades. >> he was a candidate for vice president on what ticket in what year? >> in 1980. >> how active is he in politics? >> in terms of that campaign, he looked back on that experience fondly, but you will never see him running for high office again. in terms of his political activities, he is a prolific donor to a range of conservative causes and is also on the board

of directors of the americans for prosperity foundation. americans for prosperity is the advocacy group at the koch brothers founded. >> here he is in 2009 talking about the american prosperity group. what's what. >> americans for prosperity is , and that is essential at a time when the very foundations of our nation are being challenged. have seen bothe political parties come up short and make disastrous mistakes. now more than ever, we need a strong, principled freedom movement to hold political parties accountable, and that is what americans for prosperity is doing. >> do you agree with a nonpartisan label? >> they certainly target democrats more than they do republicans, but you have to say there is a situation right now in detroit where americans for

prosperity has come out against a plan to fund the pension system there to the tune of 190 million dollars, and americans for prosperity is saying if you vote for this, we will target you for defeat. so in some instances they go after republicans as well, republican moderates as well. >> how much money have they given to politics in the last 20, 25 years? >> that is hard to quantify because it is certainly well into the millions. but a lot of their money does not flow to the political system directly. they have spent a lot of money to influence the political culture through a variety of think tanks and educational institutions. a lot of charles koch's money has gone to the mercator center. he founded the cato institute.

it is this way they sought to influence the political system, not just through the funding of campaigns. they were said to have spent $400 million on the last election. a very small percentage of that was probably their money, but what they were able to do was bring together these resources from a variety of contributors and harness a lot of that money. that is why they have been so powerful politically. >> your book has a lot of personal information in it about the four men. let's start with fred. has he been married and does he have any children? >> no let's start with fred. has he been married and does he have any children? >> no. fred never married and he has no children. >> what about charles? >> charles is married -- he's been married for decades to a woman named liz and they have two kids. >> are they involved in the

company? >> charles's son chase is involved in the company. and he is actually -- he was actually promoted not too long ago to president of i believe it was the company's fertilizer division. and he also i think is on the board of directors in the company. he's being groomed for bigger and better things there. although the topic of succession is always a touchy one and charles never fully answers that question. basically his response is often we have such a great range of leaders within the company, if i'm no longer here there's any number of people that could take over. >> how many times has he been married? >> only once. >> and what about bill? >> bill has i think five children by four different women. he's been married three times. and his kids range in age from i think late twenties to -- i think he has a toddler. >> they're not involved with

coke industries? >> no, not at all. >> what about his twin brother, david? >> david has only been married once. his wife's name is julia. she hails from arkansas, i believe and was a former assistant to the fashion designer when he met her. they have three kids and their eldest is in their teens. >> david lives in new york and you say his wife had trouble when they first got married getting along with some new york city. >> david travelled in high circles and his wife was not -- she's -- by all accounts she's a down to earth person and not a society lady. and when you all of a sudden go from having to chair the met gala there's a bit of a learning curve and there is certainly some caddiness at the upper echelon of new york society. she was certainly on the receiving end of that. there were some nasty anonymous

sniping in the gossip pages and things like that and i think she was pretty hurt by that. >> other than fred, did any of the others talk to you? >> no. no. but i was able to talk to a number of people who know them pretty well including very close friends of the brothers, the godfather of david's eldest son. people of that nature. >> did they have to get the approval of the coke brothers for them to do that? >> i think some of them probably called the cokes and said, hey, i'm going to talk to this guy, is that okay. others just talked. >> back in 1993, harry reid said this on the floor of the senate -- [video clip] >> who is this so-called non partisan grassroots group that calls it citizens for a sound economy? i'd like to point out a few facts about this group.

this group has as its top officials a family by the name of coke. these officers, these coke family members are known for their ultra and i stress ultra right wing conservativism and i think even this statement gives conservative. a bad name which it doesn't deserve. >> that was 1993. he's been beating this drum a lot longer than i realized i suppose. >> that's the first one we could find. just to jump ahead here, the washington "free beacon" which is owned by a foundation the senator for american freedom,

has put together a video. you might have seen it that shows mr. reed on the floor of the senate mentioning the coke brothers 134 times. we'll run this for a little bit of this. this is recent that they put this together this year. let's watch. (repeats: "coke brothers")

(repeats: "coke brothers") these two brothers are trying to buy america. >> what's going on? >> you know, in terms of why people see harry reid and other democrats running against the coke brothers in these midterm elections is that i think because their advocacy group americans for prosperity have been out there hitting it early and often. and it's having an effect. and i think the democrats see the name coke as a good fundraising tool. they know it rallies the left. and i think that's part of the strategy on the senator floor when senator reid is denouncing it left and right.

i think it's a bit of a dicy strategy when you say things as senator reid has and you call them un-american and things of that nature which i think would rub most people the wrong way. >> here's ted cruz on the floor of the senate having another view of this. [video clip] >> with the majority leader stood on the floor and said this is all because of the nefarious coke brothers, set aside the impropriety of the majority leader of the united states senate taking two private citizens individual who are engaged in political speech standing up for what they believe. and the majority leader using his position of political power to landblast them to target. interestingly enough the majority leader does not seem to have a problem with the california billionaire who is publicly pledged to put $1 million behind democrats to press them to pass climate change legislation that would cost millions of jobs across the

country from hard working americans that billionaire in the majorities view is perfectly fine to spend $1 million in the election but the coke brothers -- $100 million -- because the two of them have expressed their views are subject to vilification and personal attack. >> comment. >> what's interesting to me about all of this is that i have somewhat of a theory that the democrats have helped to build the coke brothers into what they are politically today by demonizing or villainizing them. they really aren't republicans they're libertarians and there is quite a difference between the two philosophies. they've long had an unceasely relationship with the republican party. now you have the cokes being embraced by a lot of people on

the right largely because they have come under such withering attack by the left. >> you delve into all these organizations including the magazine you represent through these connections and drown in all these connections and help us out here. to start with, why aren't people upset about george -- he's not left. george soros who is not on the left -- who is on the left. there's an open secret, they have a big piece about the kind of money he spent which is tremendous amount. >> sure. you have a situation right now where speech -- money can equal speech and i think that's a problem on both sides of the aisle where more money you have the more democracy you can buy. in terms of folks like george,

george soros. he was extraordinarily politically active in the 2004 election. you haven't seen him as active in recent cycles. the other difference that i see between george and the cokes and people bring this up often and it's a very question is the cokes i think have been a bit more methodical in their efforts to change the political culture and to build a political network. this has been a process that has been going on for 50 years where they've been working at this in order to mainstream some of their libertarian views. >> if you go back to what we saw earlier the secret meeting in colorado. a multibillionaire was in the group and he also owns the examiner newspapers and owns the weekly standard and the washington and

-- free beacon has on its word bill crystal. when we go to your magazine "mother jones" this are all kinds of connections. did people come after you from the right when you started writing this book because you're associated with "mother jones"? >> not too much. there was a story -- i'm trying it remember it was in news max and it said something -- >> which is a very conservative magazine. >> yes and it basically new book to target, the coke dynasty brought up my "mother jones" affiliation and implied this was going to be some sort of an attack. but i think what you see is a lot of the reviews saying this is actually -- people are kind of shocked that this is just a pretty straightforward even handed look at the cokes. and i really wanted this to be a book that both republicans or democrats could read this book and both learn something from it. >> you spend a lot of time on this book not on how they spend their money but on back ground.

when did you decide to do that. >> it went back to early research when i was realizing that like i said, i wanted to understand the origins of this family and their ideology, but they also have this really riveting and really dramatic sometimes tragic family drama that took place. i was just interested -- i was just so interested by it >> what did do you if you didn't have the transcripts of coke v coke and tell us what that is. >> coke v. coke is this lawsuit that played out between the four coke brothers, charles and david on one side and bill and frederick and other shareholders of coke industries on the other. and basically what happens is in the late 19 seventies, bill coke is working in the family company with his brothers charles and david. this was at a time when coke under scrutiny by a number of

regulators by the department of energy and then it gets hit by a set of indictments by trying to fix a federal oil lottery. bill and other shareholders, most of them family members are concerned with the direction the company is heading in. bill attributes some of the stuff that is befalling to the company to charles anti-government philosophy. another issue is this is a very closely held private company and charles is really driven to build this company. he's plowing all of their profits back into growing the company and you have bill and other shareholders that have other interests. bill's an extraordinarily wealthy man but only on paper and he wants to buy a home but he has to take out a mortgage for it which he views that as kind of ridiculous.

this culminates in a board room showdown that charles ends up thwarting. this would have ended up deposing charles as the chairman and they would have taken a greater role in the direction of the company. the end result is bill is tossed out of the company -- >> by his brothers. >> by his brothers. and there's a really dramatic moment in the book where the board has to sit down and decide bill's fate. and david who is really feels like a powerful kinship with his brother of course -- >> twins. >> twins. grew up sharing the same room and they could pinch each other at night, that he how close they slept. so, he's torn apart between loyalty to his twin and his older brother who is running the family company.

in the end he can't bring himself to vote against bill. the motion carries without him but he's glad he doesn't have to vote against bill because in his mind you're not just voting him out of the company, you're severing him from your life. so, what ends up playing out a few years later in 1983 they are able to come to a settlement where charles and david buy out the shareholders for $1.1 billion of which frederick gets 330 million and bill gets 470 million and the rest goes to other family members. a couple of years later bill believes that they've been cheated on how much they received for their shares. they think that the company obscured assets and they actually end up selling the price at a far too low price. this ignites litigation that goes on for another 15 years and

it wasn't just this one lawsuit. there were a number of lawsuits that followed that. bill was -- to say he was obsessed might be under stating it. he went after his brothers with a vengeance. >> where is fred in all this? >> frederick remained on the sidelines at first. their mother was of course devastated. >> mary. >> mary coke she was just devastated by what was taking place between her sons. she felt helpless. she reached out to frederick on a number of occasions and -- she didn't want him getting involved.

but eventually his lawyers met with bill's lawyers and he was sufficiently convinced that he had been essentially defrauded, and he ended up joining this suit. >> you have frederick and bill against charles and david. >> yep. >> when was the trial? when was the big trial if >> the big trial was in 1998. and the out come of this trial is that the jury found that there had been misrepresentations that were made during the negotiations, but these misrepresentations were not material, meaning that frederick and bill would not be entitled to the damages they were seeking. >> in your book, you're right -- this is about bill but then he expounded on it and that went back to childhood. his absentee parents and poor self image and bullying of an older brother that instigated fights, and every time shoved him roughly to the ground. that's minor things they said about each other. >> oh, yeah. basically -- what i was getting

at there bill was trying to position this as a poorly business dispute but that was impossible because these brothers were trading the most acrimonious of charges. at one point charles accused their brother of being mentally unstable and things like. that both sides hired private detectives to dig into each other's personal lives. at one point private eyes working for bill were bribing janitors of trash of the lawyers and things of that. they thought they infiltrated his offices. at one point they actually created a dummy document, left it out in plain sight and according to bill and his lawyers this document eventually surfaces in a legal filing by coke industries basically proving their assertion that someone had been infiltrating their offices.

>> how deeply were the wounds? you say brother bill and david got back together. >> it's hard to imagine that these wounds could go any deeper. in addition to this case, bill was also pursuing a whistle blower case against his brothers alleging that coke industries had stolen oil from federal lands. essentially branding his brothers as criminals, so that cuts pretty deep. amazingly bill and david are able to reforge their relationship. according to family friends part of this had to do with their wives who were both the same age were quite helpful at kind of helping them restore their bond. they both have kids that are the same age. they own homes that are

basically two miles apart in palm beach. owned homes near each other in aspen. they started getting together and it was a very slow process, but they are now consider themselves quite close. >> you have some video on their website we'll just run a little bit of this showing the twins when they were how old? there they are boxing. >> yeah. >> this is pretty vicious here. where did you get this? >> interestingly some of the family's most private moments played out in courtrooms. this was part of a videotape that was entered into evidence in one of the legal cases. this one actually had to do with their mother's will when bill and frederick contested their mother's will. charles and david submitted this to show their mother was in fact

fine mental shape because she narrated parts this have video. this is a small clip of what was a compilation of family footage. but this shows you some of the boxing battles took place. this one was a very good natured one. some apparently weren't as much so. but fred coke their dad was a college boxer and tough guy and taught them how to fight. >> how much was their father in the creation of the society? >> he was present in the room when robert laid out the vision for this group. after that he became one of its national leaders. you know, when you drive into wichita in the 19 sixties on the edge of town there was the impeach earl warren billboard classic and wichita was essentially one of the hot spots

of organizing largely thanks to coke. >> he joins the john birch society it was of his dad because he seemed taken by the john birch society. he created one of the goals of the birch society was to create a series of christian science-like reading rooms around the country. they called them american opinion book stores. charles and a family friend started an american opinion bookstore in wichita. i also heard an entertaining story how deep their anti-communism ran in the coke household which is that family friend comes to the door of the house carrying a copy of ernest hemingway's the "sun also rises" and there is a hesitance there and the charles responds politely, you got to leave the book outside and this is because

hemingway, they considered him to be a communist. even that type of literature was not allowed inside the house. >> one of the people back in the back of all your source notes you tell us who you talked to and interviewed, one of the people you interviewed was a name michael oliver. who was he? >> he was an artist in wichita, kansas. he meets mary coke in the 1980s and really becomes her very close companion in her final years of life is spending day and night with her during these times and they travel together and that sort of thing. so that's basically who he is. >> why did he talk to you? >> michael just loved mary to death, and he -- i think he felt as if her story could become

overshadowed in the broader tale of these, you know, powerful, important guys. he really wanted to talk about, you know, things like -- because mary coke was a really fascinating woman in that she was elegant but also she was a crack shot. she wore fur but it would also not strange at all to see her in fishing waiters fly fishing in a stream in the hills of kansas or things like that >> when did her husband fred die? >> he died in 1967. >> when did she die? >> 1990. >> how old was she? >> i think she was 83. >> you say that michael at that time was 45. >> yeah, i think he was a couple years younger than david at that point. >> what happened about that romance in wichita? >> there were certainly a lot of

whisper that's he was a gold digger and a gigolo, these sorts of things. but these were just two people that by all accounts just enjoyed each other's company and i think the brothers were wary, although she had a lot of younger companions in the years prior to that who would escort her around so perhaps they got a bit used to it. but i think they were weary at first, who is this guy and why is he taking such an interest in our mother. but eventually according to michael, they warmed to him and he and david would play tennis and things of that nature. >> how much control did she have over where the money had gone before she died? >> her estate was smaller. she didn't -- we're talking a few million dollars really as

opposed to what fred coke had what p what his sons had. we're not talking about a huge amount of money. she put a -- he i should qualify that. not a huge amount of money to guys who already had a massive amount of money. she inserted a clause in her will basically saying if any of my sons are involved in litigation against each other at the time of my death, they will be disinherited. she hoped this would carry enough of a sting to end the lawsuit that frederick and bill had been waging against their brothers, about really it it only ignited another round of litigation. >> when you read the transcript from coke v. coke, where did you find it and how long did it take to you read it? >> you know, i was -- i got transcripts and court records from a variety of lawsuits. interestingly, the coke v. coke a lot of the documents associated with that are stored

in a literal salt mine in kansas somewhere. we were able to -- i had a great assistant who was able to help me track them down and then we had to figure out the logistics of getting them transported to a place where they would allow me to look at them. they ended up allowing me to look at them in a courthouse in wichita, kansas. i was all over the country tracking down documents, including -- i found a lot of letters that fred coke had written during his society days at a variety of archives around the country, including the hoover institutions archives. i even got documents from a russian archive showing some of the work that fred work had done in the soviet union in the 19 thirties, so i was looking for anything i could get my hands on.

>> there's a quote that i wrote down, it's from a man by the name of -- oh, goodness, where is it. lipshitz. >> so that was fred coke's minder when he traveled to the soviet union in the 19 thirties. this was a formative experience because he, a, his work in the soviet union formed the seeds of the family fortune. he had been sue in the u.s. and forced to look for work outside the u.s. and ends up getting a $5 million contract with his partner to modernize refineries throughout the soviet union. when he travel there's to oversee the work an old bolshevik is his minder who takes him around the country. according to fred he tells him the plans that the communists have to subvert the

united states, things like we're going to make you rotten to the core. when he sees fred off at the train station he basically shakes his fist at him and says to him, i'll see you in the u.s. sooner than you the or something like that. so this is an image that haunts fred. here he is, he's helped to modernize the soviet oil industry which had been decimated at that point, helps to industrialize the soviet union and empower the soviet union and returns home vowing to do everything he can to fight back against this communist menace and you really see that in his work with the john birch society and this forms some of the ideology of his family and sons. >> you were born where? >> i was born in new york city. >> where did you go to college? >> i went to college in boston. i went to emerson. >> what did you study? >> i studied writing, literature

and publishing >> and you got a masters degrees >> colorado colombia. >> my wife was getting a masters where she works. i mostly live in cambridge, massachusetts. >> what do you do full-time? >> i'm a senior editor at "mother jones." >> i'll wade through a little more research i did on "mother jones" and there is a coke website that's cokefacts.com and a website that david brooks runs. then on "mother jones" who i guess was a socialist -- >> she was a turn of the century labor leader who led campaigns against child labor in mines and things of that nature. >> i want to ask you how you as a journalist stay independent. it's owned by americans for

prosperity, the foundation i believe. >> no. the foundation that runs is called the foundation for national progress. >> my mistake. i did see that there's contributions through barbara streisand and david and lucy yell packard fund. bill moyers. there are a lot of politics in all of this. how do you stay independent? >> what's so interesting is that when you're bringing up some of these names saying to myself, streisand funds mother jones? honestly some of this i'm not even aware of. i don't know. there's never been anyone else telling us what we should or shouldn't cover. "mother jones" has a reputation as a fiercely independent muck raking magazine. >> corn run the washington bureau and --

>> david broke the 47% video which is certainly one of the biggest scoops of what has been a very illustrious career and the whole -- >> in your book anybody disappointed? >> i've received some in the social media world i've gotten some critiques from the left from people who said we're upset that i essentially humanized them too much but that's what my goal was to do. these guys had become these two-dimensional characters and i wanted to paint a full portrait of who these guys are. there are certain people who believe that they're evil and matter what and they're entitled

to their opinion. but i certainly didn't come away with that notion at all. so, but no. i think the response to the book has been overwhelmingly good, better than i could have expected. >> did you ever get the sense that you were being investigated while were you doing your research? by the coke family? >> no. i got the sense that they were tracking the things that i was doing quite carefully. one thing that i do recall is that i interviewed one of their friends out in wichita and i recorded the interview and i asked if i could record it. this gentleman said sure, but would you give me a copy of the interview. once i returned home i sent him a disk with the interview on it and i followed up a couple of days later to make sure he received it. got his secretary on the line and she said to me, oh, so and so from coke just came by to pick it up and this was a pause

and she just realized she shouldn't have said that to me. but that was the sort of thing. they clearly wanted to know what i was up to. at one point their communications director and general counsel flew out to new york to meet with the editor who is working on my book. they really wanted to be sure that this was going to be a fair-minded account. >> daniel schulman author of sons of wichita. we thank you very much for joining us. >> been my pleasure. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program visit us at q&a.org. also available as podcasts. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014]

>> next, live, your calls and comments on "washington journal." discuss issues from early childhood to post secondary education. live at 4 p.m., the chilean president talks about reform efforts in her country. you had broadcasting and then cable came along and then satellite. what if satellite had said we are different than cable would have a different technology so we will take that and i consider ourselves to be responsible. satellite did not do that. come up with aeo different technology and say we

don't have to negotiate for copyrighted material? we have said from the beginning this is not about being opposed to technology. they're still a technology there at aereo and maybe a business model but that does not mean you can even aid the law to run a business. >> more about the supreme court decision against aereo with the head of the national association of broadcasters, gordon smith, tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span two. morning, linda robinson discusses u.s. military options in iraq. then john gabel from the university of chicago's national opinion research center examines the impact of the health care law so far on insurance plans including pricing. later, the former republican llaas congressman henry boni talks about the group's

recommendation to break the lyrical gridlock in washington. as always, we will take your calls and you can join the conversation at facebook and twitter. ♪ good morning. welcome to "washington journal ." you are looking at live footage outside the supreme court. case will beby decided today. the court is meeting today for a final time to release decisions in this and one of the case before they take off for the summer. we want to hear from you on your thathts on this case included a contraception mandate. our phone lines are open.