it may not be, but it will not until you start talking. and i will say that again, for me, this hearing is beginning that process up here, and i appreciate it. >> let me ask you, what concerns do you have about advertising to children? and how has the emergence of the tobacco companies in the e-cigarette field... changed the changed the market or the perceptions of the advertising? >> some of the things that i have seen bother me as a hotel person. i do not think banning advertising is the route to go because at the same time we need to be providing truthful and accurate aberration to the 40 million smokers about these products and how they can be used. that is where we need to go. monitor this,d to which is what i said earlier. there are things that give me heartburn about what i see in

the marketplace. i think we need to deal with them upfront, in a very honest manner. what are your companies doing to restrict advertising to children? weas i mentioned briefly, adopted a policy that we got from the pope -- tobacco control act that the audience be at least 85% adult. >> we also self regulate. in the years that has led up to this regulation we only advertise programming that would have a predominant adult audience, whether that be on television or in print. >> thank you. >> you're going to be a very

good person, as you are anyway. she is committee chair, and she is here. >> thank you. >> you're a very optimistic man. you talk about sitting around the table and resolving these things. we tried it with the tobacco companies. they all sat across 30 different , raise their hands, swore to tell the truth, and then lies. everyone turned and every thing began to make reference at that point. i do not want to say we asked , wele to raise their hand

just want to talk about what is true. this is the greatest invention ever to get people off of cigarettes. we will put this in the record. here is the deal. it is pretty well peer-reviewed. and they say health plans and claims of efficacy for quitting smoking are unsupported by the scientific evidence to date. these are leading scientists. you ought to get a look at this. i do not think your actor in she were accurate in response. i have to go on, i do not have time, and i have to make responses. you believe that nicotine is dangerous to adolescents? >> i do. that theu are aware

u.s. surgeon general says that nicotine exposure during affluence may have lasting adverse consequences for brain arelopment, and that they particularly vulnerable to this kind of drug. you areyou said that working to get adults off cigarettes, that is your goal and your mission, have you ever had a conversation in your company, informally, formulae, with another executive beut how this product could marketed to non-smokers? >> i have not had that conversation. >> did anyone in your company ever? >> not that i am aware of. >> what is in your cigarettes? nicotine, glycerin,

lychol.ngs, and g >> are you aware that there was some formaldehyde found in the cigarettes? >> yes. where tested our products and there's no formaldehyde in the ingredients. >> how often do you test? >> pretty frequently. >> so this formaldehyde had nothing to do with your company? >> not from mine. >> not for yours? they did not find any? >> new york times was not testing our products, no. >> it is unequivocal that you do not market to kids. here's my question. products in cherry crush and vanilla flavors. cherry crush. yet your parent company has a youth smoking prevention website

that says that kids may be vulnerable to trying e-cigarettes due to an abundance of fun flavors like cherry, vanilla, piña colada. how could he sit here and say you're not marketing to children? >> it is a good question. >> what is the answer? cherryaverage age of a smoker is in the high 40's. we have also found that flavors decrease the ability and possibility of adult smokers who use e-cigarettes switching back because they do not want to -- >> weight. -- wait. your parent company say that kids may be particularly vulnerable to trying e-cigarettes due to an abundance of fun flavors, and you sell them in three of those flavors? are you marketing to children? >> no i am not. >> so who is attracted to

cherry, barry, vanilla? >> adult smokers. >> they are? that is interesting. even though your parent company called you out on it. your company previously llmmitted to not se e-cigarettes and flavors. now wall street investors report you're going to be selling them in 10 flavors with more to come. , scotch, we are not offering cotton candy or gummy bear. >> what are you offering? do you have your list? >> i do not have them listed. i can remember them. addition, there is a vanilla

there is alsoa, -- time,ce i do not have would you make that available before the end of the day? >> yes. >> i want to show the flavors that we see in these cigarettes. i do not know the flavors he is coming up with since he said before he was not going to. i'm going to ask our advocacy think on candy is something that is attractive to children or adults? >> cotton candy would be attractive to children. what about gummy bears? >> the evidence shows it to be the case for children. for e-cigarettes as an industry to proclaim that they are not advertising to kids and they are choosing these flavors,

and we do not know yet these new flavors and we know that sherry and barry even though your parent company say they attract kids, you do not think they attract kids. you are wrong. you are wrong. let's look at some of the advertising. these are cartoons. they are not by your companies. i want to say to my children advocacy people, do they look like they are aimed at children or adults? urf,hat would be papa sm and that would be an appealing to children as there are movies that are for kids. >> the biggest movie now is frozen, and the biggest song is let it go, and one of the e-cigarettes has a logo let it glow.

i am saying to my chairman, whom i adore, whether it is his birthday or not -- [laughter] that i share his views on this. you can sit and say whatever you want from you can call yourself into thinking this. we do not know if this product gets people off cigarettes. it is not proven. do not think you are doing some great mission, and say that you really care about kids when you go against your own parent ce and start using these flavors. have some of these flavors here, and i am not supposed to touch them because they are like poison. spot.bear pink rocket pop. cotton candy. repeat, and wee

in this committee get it. i am just saying that i have a lot of other questions that it will put forward for the record. i think all of this is very important, and i'd know the people in the industry, you can talk yourselves into everything. when i was a young woman, doctors said that you should cigaretteoking because it will calm you down. thank you god my mom said not on your life. you will regret it. >> senator blumenthal. >> thank you mr. chairman . i am tremendously respectful, not going as so far as to say i am adoring, but we love you, happy birthday. like all of our children, they are a better generation. i also want to thank your staff

for the excellent work they've have done in putting together this are family important hearing. it does have a very haunting feel. the only difference between your testimony today and the testimony of the tobacco executives is that you're not under oath. testimony a sense of denial that i cannot credibly accept. the reason is that it is defied by the numbers. the latest report by the legacy foundation shows that 18 million print and exposed to tv ads within a six-month time frame alone. ads reachhat enjoy 3 million teens. there is a legal principle that

people are responsible for the natural and logical effects of what they do, because they know those affects. you know that you are reaching children and teenagers. have seen this movie before. it is called big nicotine comes to children near you. you are using the same kinds of tactics, promotions, and ads that were used by big tobacco and proved so effective. i want to show you one example. you can see our old friend, joe camel. who was mr.friend, cool. anyone recognize mr. cool? >> i do.

are you here denying that mr. ol appeals to teenagers and children? >> that particular illustration was not a commercial. it was placed on our website for our consumers. it was an education piece. >> and education piece on your website. >> yes sewer. -- sir. >> not to represent your company? >> what i am saying is that was not a commercial. it had an education piece that was specifically aimed at our consumers. becausetaken it down when i had objections and people said to me i think this is an appropriate, while i disagree that the messaging was not aimed at children -- >> but the tactics you

substituted are equally so. you're one step ahead of your critics. let's look at the next visual. recognize him? >> yes. pattinson. he has an electronic cigarette. >> he looks like mr. cool. >> he is an adult smoker. >> do you deny in your testimony today that this ad, the use of is to appeal to children and teenagers? >> i do. he is a 20-year-old adult smoker. >> your testimony is that untold role mobile'-- adult role mild dels have no effect on

underage children? adult targeted to reach smokers. and for adult smokers to see those that they admire using an alternative to a toxic cigarette is a good thing. >> these are designed to appeal to children. they are not only reminiscent, ofy are really depicted the tactics used by big tobacco. you have taken their playbook and modified it to a noncombustible nicotine delivery mechanism. this hearing is not so much contents of e-cigarettes or their potential i find itects, which

somewhat difficult to accept on the evidence we have so far, it is about the marketing and promotion tactics. the use of celebrities like robert pattinson, and images like mr. cool, and others that i hope perhaps we can reach on a second round of questioning, in my view the evidence is undeniable that you are seeking not only to re-normalize, but to re-glamorized tobacco use. , for manyucts children and teenagers, will be a clear path and gateway to combustible tobacco use, otherwise known as cigarettes. my time is up. i hope we can hear more response. >> you have been doing this a long time. >> thank you.

i am a former prosecutor, and i like to look at the facts. the first fact that senator blumenthal mentioned is that a recent study found that almost 2 million kids have tried these e-cigarette, and that is a problem right there. and then i look -- any but that picture? have you gone to those movies? have you been in those theaters? i have with my daughter. the peopleyou that in those theaters for the most part our kids. the people who read those books for the most part our girls. times as i this many have had to be up at 2:00 a.m. in the morning when they do the premiers and all of the girls go to see the movies. birthday toppy robert pattinson. do you think this appeals to us to wish him happy birthday? >> i will repeat what i said

earlier that he is an adult smoker, and we are trying to appeal to adult smokers. i do not understand why when cannot haverettes flavors, they have been banned from having flavors, why were they banned? banned because congress determined after substantial evidence that they mostly appeal to young people. >> so i do not understand why you do not have your product without flavors? view every decision we make through the lens of what is going to help us a publisher are mission to obsolete cigarettes. because we are only interested in adult smokers, we had not yet sold any products that contain any flavors. we still of today do not,

because it is in a responsible company prior to offering flavors. we did research to ensure that to the greatest degree possible we would not appeal to non-smoking youth with the flavors we would provide. we are trying to understand who uses our products with the goal of appealing to adult smokers without appealing to minors. we were satisfied with the results of that research which we would be happy to submit for the record. was conducted by the doctor who was here today, and is happy to answer questions. >> i have to tell you, just because they have out called names on them, they think they are cool. that thention the ones other senator mentioned. that you said was just on an absent -- on a

website. i know how social media works. i understand a study out this month shows that they are being heavily marketed on twitter. relatedre 70,000 tweets to e-cigarette, nearly 90% of the tweets were from e-cigarette companies, at all of these included a website link. i also understand that when people sign up for the twitter ad they have to say they are over 18. the social media sites have age verification or certification processes that we install. >> their public tweets, so anyone can get on twitter accounts, so anyone can get on youtube. none of the videos are age restricted. i would just have to think that my in-laws, i do not think they use twitter, but i know that all

of my daughters use twitter and facebook, and they are very adept on social media. thiso i would think that kind of marketing would be particularly appealing to kids. i wondered if you wanted to comment on that. >> i think you're completely correct. using social media is a particularly adept way of you we aging on people -- reaching young people. say overtes, right now 18, you say yes, and you are in. yess far easier to just say and you can get right in, rather than double verification. i believe the protections to use are relatively weak. it is very powerful. >> i completely agree. it is not the 70-year-old who

are looking at twitter or the youtube videos. we looked at the age verification on the e-cigarette -- and there is no standard like that of cigarettes. conclude, whatto you have here is 2 million kids and growing, you have marketing of flavors which we know from the past with regular cigarettes, that is the very reason why we banned laboring's and regular cigarettes -- flavorings in regular cigarettes. and now we know that we have a heavy use of social media that is targeted to youth. it is a great way to reach youth, and one of the only ways -- to reach tha youth at times. and then we have our celebrity

models, which i have to tell you that most people over 50 are not going to know who robert pattinson is as much as you would like to think it. just because he is 28 years old and has 28 candles, justin bieber is over 818 as well. and if someone put out an ad for him, i do not think anyone is going to think that that is marketed to adults. this is my exhibit d. i think that when you look at all of these facts, there is heavy-duty marketing going on to youth, and the last thing is for us to see them get dependent when we are starting to see success. you said that you are a smoker? >> yes. >> how many years? am 40tarted at 23, and i now.

a fair amount of time. >> you are using e-cigarettes to help you get rid of your cigarettes? hear about how it is working. how long have you been doing it? what do you notice? i think you're all talking into the clouds in terms of facts. you're disingenuously trying to say something which you should not be saying. to your credit, you're trying to get off of tobacco. how is the e-cigarette helping you do that? speak to myays personal story, i was smoking a pack and a half of cigarettes a day. five just i will smoke i loto cigarettes a week, of times nine. it makes it very difficult for me as an e-cig smoker, it was

, being that it does not taste or remind you of tobacco and it is difficult to go back to tobacco. have you been distributing free samples to kids? >> we get to distribute free samples to 18-year-old or over verified smokers. >> how do you know? theiry have to provide state drivers licenses, it is wiped to be verified, and then the first question they are asked is are they a smoker? if they say no, their spirits with us and. if they say yes, what about the product and then they can acquire a sample. virtuous,nk that is a

civic duty or performing? we should be responsible when handing the product to someone. >> senator nelson. mr. chairman, as usual, you have picked a hearing on an important topic of the day. thank you very much. doctorto ask tanski, you testified that there was a recent instance of nicotine poisoning in young children. are these children getting into the refill vials of liquid nicotine? or are you seeing the poisoning disposablethe e-cigarettes? level ofnot have that detail but we know that the trajectory of the number of calls has been increasing for

electronic cigarette and nicotine devices right rapidly -- very drab and late. rapidly.s very >> you also note that there are currently no standards for governing childproof packaging for these liquid nicotine bottles. , mr. chairman, if this has not already been entered into the record, it is a photograph of a number of these liquid flavors. split, cotton candy, kool-aid, great him a skittles about sweet tarts, gummy bear, froot loops, rocket pop. hawaiian punch.

would you support giving either the consumer product commission -- fda express authority to enforce childproof packaging for toxic or harmful s on those subject liquid nicotine containers? >> absolutely. everything else in your home that is toxic pretty much have a child cave safed on the -- have a child safe cap on them. it gives that extra times and that parents can be there so they do not have a toxic exposure. i asked for help, and we believe the fda has regulatory authority over the packaging, although it has not been commented on. i would encourage the committee to help us.

, iinclude their oversight know that tobacco products are , they need to be regulated -- >> the gummy bear actually has a ofture of the repairs -- gummy bears on the label. you have stated that there should not be restrictions on responsible advertising of the cigarettes or other types of these nicotine vapor products. tell us what is responsible and what is irresponsible advertising in your industry? >> responsible advertising is trying to reach the more than 40 million adult smokers in this country, almost 500,000 of whom

died prematurely from tobacco related illness. trying to reach those people and get them off of the toxic parts they are using is the responsible thing to do. irresponsible would be the use ofcartoon characters or images, trying to target children, him advertising during programming that appeals to children and things of that sort. >> is it responsible to show and e-cigarette that looks almost exactly like a combustion cigarette in a television ad, is that responsible? >> i believe that it is. for most smokers if you ask them

what an electronic cigarette is they think it is a complicated device with a lot of wires and it was important to communicate there could be as close as possible to the product they were currently using and that would make it easy as possible to transition to a new habit. >> for an adult who knew that. for a kid who is looking at that tv advertisement is in the message sent to that kid that does not know the sophistication of what you just said that it is ok to have either one? >> that is why we have our message, friends do not let friends smoke which is our ad campaign we did earlier this year. that is the kind of ad campaign the public health community should support. >> that is where you are going to run into some problems. in the public sector, we have been through this with tobacco and children. we have seen how tobacco

companies have tried to hook children through this and that is advertisements on nicotine because once they get to them as a child it will be tough all through their life as an adult to get off of it. and i think you're going to have some significant pushback. on lending and blurring the two. >> thank you. >> senator markey, would you forgive me, the power structure has arrived. the power structure is here with coffee. black coffee, no sugar. he was doing something that required the use of power. would you yield for moment? >> you have a right to remain silent. [laughter] i spoke on the house floor on the durbin amendment.

the first amendment brought out on the house and senate for two ban smoking on flights less than two hours. we are here with a historic figure. i'm sure it is a historic presentation. >> i want to thank the chairman for his kind remarks and also my colleagues. thank you for your patience. i will submit my statement for the record. and acknowledge the presence of matt myers. we have been in the struggle for long-term trying to save and spare kids from tobacco. and what it does to them. we know when addictions start, they start in your adolescence. if you can sell an addictive product to an adolescent, you have got them. you may have them for life. that is why a lot of marketing is done for children. back in the day it was just bald-faced marketing. joe camel and everything you can

imagine. the kids were wearing t-shirts and hats and sadly becoming addicted to products that would be the end of their healthy lives if they were not careful. and now we have this argument by the e-cigarette industry that is -- it is an accident that your advertising and marketing is appealing to so many kids. it is hard to understand. i think it is hard to believe. e-cigarette use is on the rise. cdc released a study showing one year the percentage of middle and high school students who used e-cigarettes more than doubled. they would have you believe it is an accident. we know better. the same study found one in five middle school students who reported using e-cigarettes had never tried a conventional cigarette. this was not about finding a way off of smoking. this suggests for many young people e-cigarettes was a

gateway to nicotine addiction and smoking. the new study goes even further. middle and high school students who use cigarettes less likely to quit smoking and more likely to try tobacco cigarettes. according to the surgeon general report, 2100 go on to become smokers. it harkens me back to an era that you will remember well. it was 30 years ago if you can recall this time when those seven tobacco company executives appeared in the house of representatives and took an oath that cigarettes and tobacco were not addictive. now one of the executives of the company is back are doing do not

market to kids. between 2011 and 2013, exposure to e-cigarette marketing by children aged 12-17 rose 256%. 24 million kids saw these ads. that is no accident. the blu cigarette accounted for much of this. it is the same battle. we have been at it before. they want to addict these kids, this time to an e-cigarette which has a chemical that is addictive. we know what it leads to. it leads to tobacco addiction, disease, and death. i do not believe there is a case to be made for e-cigarettes thing sold to children. i hope this committee feels the same way. >> it does. >> thank you, senator durbin. senator markey.

>> thank you, mr. chairman. going back to dick durbin, that was a historic debate on the house floor. that was the beginning of the banning of smoking on airplanes in the united states. we are in your debt for that day. it changed the whole course of history. my father died from lung cancer. he smoked two packs of camels a day. he told me at age 12, he said he knew i would be starting to smoke very soon, he said to me at age 12. that is when he started to smoke and he knew i would. he was urging me not too as was my mother. my father knew then that when he started smoking maybe in 1930 at the same thing would be true when i was a boy and the same thing is true today for boys and girls. that is when the temptation is greatest and why we have to be most aware.

the marketing to them is what makes it seductive and then once you got them got them for life. that is why we're having this hearing because the marketing of this, the allure of this is so superficially attractive that we know all of history tells us it is targeted at young people, at kids, and it has always been that way. i miss my father and i wish he had never smoked two packs of camels day but he could not break the habit once he was -- once you're on, you're on. we know the technology is a very good thing. we have transformed rotary phones into iphones and turned sunlight and wind into energy and plants into certain drugs. there are certain things that do not need to be reinvented. items that serve no societal benefit. the cigarette is one of them. new cigarettes have exploded into the marketplace known as

everything from e-cigs to vaporizers. these products are designed to appeal to youth, and they are more accessible and explicitly marketed to youth. we are focused on a revisitation of the history books. we know what happened in the past. we know what is happening right now. after more than four decades of research there are several incontrovertable facts. nicotine is addictive. in combination with tobacco it claims millions of lives. big tobacco denied the facts. today e-cigarette sales in the

u.s. alone tops $1 billion. use of e-cigarettes by high school students doubled in just one year. in middle school kids typically aged 12-15 had never smoked a traditional cigarette. this data is not at all surprising when one considers the ways these products market particularly to youth and how these products are available in a myriad of flavors from cotton candy to kool-aid grape. they claimed they were the best for you. today white cloud e-cigarettes promises the gift of fresh air. in the 1940's philip morris promised their product would provide freedom from throat irritation and virginia slims , another company advertised cigarettes as touches of freedom that equated smoking with women's rights. today blu cigarettes has a campaign called take back your freedom.

in the 1970's executives suggested walking a fine line in packaging design to ensure that packaging was geared to attract the youthful eye. not the ever watchful eye of the federal government. today's electronic cigarettes are no better than the marlboros of the 1950's. cotton candy flavored vape liquid can contain just as much nicotine as a regular cigarette. they pose the same risks as joe camels of the 1970's. the flavors attract young people. the younger a person is when they start the more difficult it is to stop. we know that if kid has not started to smoke by the age of 19 they are not going to start.

we just know that is a rule. you got to get them before 19. because all the social pressure is no longer effective. just a rule. you have to market younger. that is the way it works. you have to find replacement customers for those who have died. if you could give me a yes or no is the nicotine that is present in e-cigarettes and vape-liquid any less addictive than nicotine in traditional cigarettes? >> it is no less addictive. >> do you agree with the doctor that your products are just as addictive as traditional cigarettes? >> i agree they contain nicotine and we do acknowledge nicotine is addictive. >> you agree. do you agree with that? >> yes. >> let's go back to you.

if that is the case in they are addictive, what possible argument can they make to keep these products on the market or targeted to children? >> it is the reason we are concerned about the kind of marketing we have seen and the use of flavors that appeal to children. >> for many the thought of santa clause brings back nostalgia. most children would not think of santa needing an e-cigarette despite the social media promotion to the contrary. other examples including images of cartoons like mr. cool bring back flash backs of similar strategies used by traditional tobacco companies. do think there's a chance that these images could appeal particularly to young consumers? >> i think there no question about that. our concern is it is a generation of consumers who have been protected from this kind of advertising and so it is the first time they will see them. >> is it a coincidence that it is called "cool" in the same way "kool" cigarettes in the 1950's it would be a softer entry for

the kid to go cool first and move on to the harder cigarette? >> it requires a level of disbelief to believe it is a coincidence. >> each time it is trying to get the young kid into the pattern of smoking cigarettes. do you agree with dr. myers about that, that is what the attention is, to entice a kid in to do something that is cool that will lead to real health consequences for that in person? >> absolutely not. our product is intended for adult smokers and i can understand the opinion if smoking was not and we created smoking, we did not. we created our product to get smokers away from combustion cigarettes. >> in your testimonial and materials presented to the

committee you repeatedly state that your target audience are adults and we continue to hear it right now. will your company's commit to not using these materials that could be expected to appeal to children? would you agree not to use that kind of advertising. it was used when i was a boy. we know why young kids said they will smoke kools first. >> we have removed at least a year ago. we commit to never using that again, correct. >> will you commit to using any kinds of cartoons in the future? >> i will agree to that. >> no cartoons in the future. >> correct. will you commit to going through

your social media sites to erase past images such as those that appeal to those who are young kids? >> absolutely. we rigorously go through and continue to do so. >> blu already has. >> several brands use advertising to create the impression that e-cigarettes are a way to eliminate traditional cigarette use altogether. this has been acknowledged by the american legacy foundation who in a recent report stated that some brands focused their message more responsibly on smokers to quit combustible use. let's briefly view a recent television ad by finn e-cigarettes. a brand that has recently surged in popularity. >> to the land of the free. ♪ to the pursuit of happiness. to independence. to freedom of choice. to equality. there was a time when no one was

offended by it. the time has come again. finn's. electronic cigarettes. rewrite the rules. >> to repeat the closing line there was a time when no one was offended by it. just smoking amongst other people, indifferent to how it might impact on them but that time has come again. says the ad. the message seems to be promoting smoking is a new past time for young, attractive consumers. based on your review of marketing messages, do you have concerns that these products are glamorizing smoking in general? >> i do. it is clear that many of these images are quite glamorous and quite attractive. they really are taking a lesson from the 1950's playbook of the tobacco companies and that is of significant concern. i want to make a point that when young people see these ads or see people who are using

electronic cigarettes or the vaping devices it is hard to pick a distinction between someone who is smoking and someone who is vaping. my kids are pretty savvy and i have shown them pictures and they say they are smoking a cigarette. it is difficult for kids to understand that there is a difference. and so we really are saying i fear a re-normalization of that image and behavior. it is glamorous and sexy. they have cute models who are vaping and our kids do not recognize the difference. it is a concern. >> is the tagline encouraging continued nicotine and tobacco use by those who would otherwise quit altogether? >> that is a significant concern that we are getting people to do

dual use rather than getting them to quit combustible products. >> do you collect information about the demographics of your customers? >> we do. >> could you provide the age demographics and other information about your current users of your products to the committee? >> yes, i could. our average is 51. we could give you the total data. >> would you do the same? >> yes. >> i thank you so much. we know what is going on here. you do not have to be dick tracy to figure this out. we understand the advertising. you have to get someone under 19 to start smoking otherwise you have lost the most likely customer. i thank you for this hearing. i am fortunate i never had a cigarette in my life but that was just because my father knew he had made a big mistake and he made it, along with my mother, a very strong admonition to me. this was an avoidable

catastrophe. and we just have to make sure that other young people who were not protected the way i was are not actually made vulnerable by the marketing of these companies because otherwise, it is another gateway like kool cigarette used to be into the worst that can happen to someone from health perspective. >> we will have a second round because senator blumenthal requested -- >> i would respectfully request a second round. >> this is all about the money.

it is uncreative. it is nasty. it is like pornography in my mind. maybe what you're doing is much more dangerous. i am ashamed of you. i do not know how you go to sleep at night. i do not know what gets you to work in the morning. except the color green of dollars. i never said anything like that before but i never have heard testimony such as given you two, and by you, sir come out what i want to do is send you to the middle east. we could get good people together and settle everything. you can come back and talk to us more realistically. but for you two, you are what is wrong with this country.

the profit motive is good but only if it is aimed at something which is for the general benefit of the public and that could be stretched little bit. because the public likes to be entertained. i cannot say professional basketball is necessary for democracy but people like it. so let's go ahead. in your case you do not have that leeway. it simply a matter of the dollars. the money that you rake in. the 256% increase in two years and you say it is for adults, not for children. when everything that has come out in this hearing says otherwise. i think it is dreadful. i yield to senator blumenthal. >> thank you and thank you for giving us a second round and thank you for holding this hearing. i want to begin by joining

senator durbin in thanking that myers for his long-standing heroic efforts in this that go back decades. we work together for a couple of decades on the nicotine addiction and tobacco use which are a continuing problem in this country. let us never forget despite the fact that this hearing is on e-cigarettes that the evil of tobacco and cigarette use remains as a primary cause of death and addiction in this country. if there is a redeeming fact about your product, it is the possibility that it offers quick mechanisms yet unproven, but at least perhaps a glimmer of hope. it is the advertising and promotion and the pitches that bring us here today. so let me begin the second round of questioning on sort of a positive note.

in the war against big tobacco, so-called, i was privileged to help lead the effort close to 20 years ago with a lawsuit that eventually led to settlement. that produced great advances. it took an act of congress and the tobacco control act to take another step and we still have more steps to go in the battle to redeem public health in that area. let me ask you, would you be willing to come together to my to sit down, to commit to reaching a settlement, an agreement, a protocol that stops any possible ads and pitches that appeal to children and

teenagers? >> we are committed, we do not want to attract anyone who is not an adult smoker. we committed to fda regulation. we have been long supporters for the category. >> i am asking you to commit to something more specific. which is to join in talks, specific discussions involving others in the industry, the major players just as happened in the tobacco area that would produce protocols and agreements for example, to avoid use of tv, avoid use of cartoon characters, to require identification of point of sale, similar to what was done. >> we would be willing to have conversations. i would not be willing to

restrict television advertising because it is an effective means of communication. >> of course it is. it is an attractive means to reach children. i am asking you to join in conversations that would involve others in your industry and i am asking this question to both of you that would at least consider what has been true of the tobacco industry, its avoidance of the use of tv ads. >> i would welcome the ability to sit down and discuss it as i said earlier. it is not my intention to sell this to children. i am not averse to sitting down. >> we're not talking about content. intent.

we discovered when we brought lawsuits that showed despite other claims under oath, they had studies showing that their marketing tactics were aimed at children, had the effect of reaching children and appealing to children. i know you are a lot smarter. you do not have the studies in your file. this hearing is not about what you say your intentions are. it is what the effects are. of your marketing strategies, your promotion, your use of celebrity. let me show you just to complete some of the tableau. i am sure you recognize this individual. >> that is jenny mccarthy. >> do you know what product she is using? >> blu. >> would you deny that this kind of promotion appeals to teenagers and children? >> i would deny that. >> you would? even though she is a celebrity,

even though she is in an obviously suggestive pose, you would deny it has any appeal to teenagers and children. >> i would deny that. >> would you say she's smoking in this promotion? >> she is vaping. >> you do not see any confusion between smoking and vaping. >> of course there is some confusion but to defeat tobacco and cigarettes we have to appeal to smokers. >> let me show you another official document from your company that is on your website. as part of what you have called the smoking prevention program. you recognize it? >> i am here to represent blu. i do not know what you are

showing. >> could i have all these documents made part of the official record? you recognize that document? >> it is from the site that they sponsor but they are not responsible for the messaging. i am here to speak for blu. >> if it is a lorelard document you are saying they are not responsible for it? >> this is not on the website. >> it is not part of real parents, real answers. >> i assume it is.

you have never seen it before? which i have never looked at the site in depth. >> you have never looked at the site in depth. you are here representing blu, are you not? >> correct. >> let me ask you as someone who has ever seen it before. it says for the first time in 43 years smoking ads are returning to tv with advertising. you have to accept my representation that this is part of a presentation called real parents, real answers. it says that smoking ads are returning to tv. are those your ads? >> our ads would be some of them. >> kids may be vulnerable to trying e-cigarettes due to an abundance of fun flavors such as cherry vanilla, piña colada, and

very. that is a warning about flavors. >> that is an opinion of the person that created the site. >> it might be that company but you have not seen it before. >> i know of it and the business behind it. at the bottom it states -- cites the opinion of the dr.. >> let me show you a couple of charts on flavors. would you say that this kind of promotion or add appeals to children? rex completely inappropriate and i would agree with you. >> it is part of what the industry does. yes or no?

>> it is one brand in particular. it is not what i do. >> wouldn't you agree that as a responsible marketer and you are in the business of promoting and selling these products that an industrywide agreement to ban those kinds of cartoon characters would be a good thing? rex bening cartoon characters, and the use of advertising, i would agree. >> would you agree to come together and reach another master settlement agreement that provides for a ban on this type of inappropriate marketing, the use of people like jenny mccarthy, sports and rock concert sponsorship, all of these kinds of same protocols and agreements with the result of the tobacco industry coming to the table, would you agree to do it? >> i would agree to sit down to discuss how we effectively eliminated tobacco but i would not sit down to discuss how i

relinquish my first amendment rights and lose focus of the big picture that we could eliminate tobacco here. >> may i suggest respectfully that i would have more respect for all of the answers you have given today knowing that you are the messenger, you do not make the policy. if your company's would commit to help lead and make yourself part of the solution, not the problem. the problem here is not your product. i am not passing judgment on your product. there is not enough science to draw conclusions. i view it skeptically as a means of quitting or cessation. i am not passing judgment on the

product. i'm passing judgment on the marketing and promotion which creates a clear and present danger of addicting another generation, addicting another generation to nicotine which is among the most powerfully addictive drugs known to man. and it is in fact the ingredient in cigarettes that makes him so pernicious and insidious because it evokes the user to a device that kills them. cigarettes kill people. and if your products are a gateway to cigarette use, they are aiding and abetting that killing. i hope you will rethink some of your answers. i hope that we will have another

form where we can revisit some of these issues and we can move constructively toward some kind of solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> earlier in my comments i noted the toxicity of that concentrated nicotine in e-cigarette refill liquid. let me ask the two derailment. in addition to the nicotine what are the other ingredients in the liquid nicotine? >> speaking to the blu product they are glycerin, vegetable glycerin, distilled water, nicotine, and natural and artificial flavors. >> in our product it is propylene by call, glycerin, and flavoring.

>> are any of those other than the nicotine harmful substances? >> we have tested our products and we support the fda house testing for these products. we are submitting our results to the fda and we are comfortable with the results of they are orders of factors safer. >> as to the substance being harmful or not i did not understand your answer. that the substances are generally regarded as safe and foods. they have not been tested in terms of epidemiological studies and inhalation in humans over large periods of time. >> do you make a complete

listing of all these substances in the e-cigarette liquid available to the public? >> we do. it is on the website. rex yes, sir. >> i would just note for the record and ask that it be inserted. it has been brought to my attention, here is a billboard at christmas time. a picture of what appears to be a santa claus like figure. i do not always vape but when i do i choose vapor [inaudible] you are utilizing the seasons of the year. i would add this to the record. very attractive models, all promoting these products. >> thank you.

>> thank you all. the hearing is adjourned. >> thank you. >> one of the recent senate >> one of the recent senate hearings on the e-cigarette industry.

we will continue the discussion about how the government should regulate e-cigarettes. we're going to do something we do not often get a chance to do, show you some props of the industry itself. the smokers or the tank system. we have a couple of them here. these are pretty heavy. this weighs like a couple of cell phones. cell phones. you about the flavors. this is jameson's as in the irish whiskey. and you probably can't read that is cappuccino flavor. we will open up discussion for your thoughts and comments. we want to ask you what you industry should betr regulated. here is how to join the conversation --

an e-cigarette smoker a special line for you as well. the twitter hashtag. michael whod by covers the tobacco industry for the associated press and joins us from richmond. thanks for being with us. >> glad to be here. saw part of a hearing that dealt a lot with the targeting e-cigarettesg of towards children and teenagers in particular. there?h truth is what is moan about how the industry is -- what is known about how the indusry is terms of marketing campaigns? >> i think it is difficult to industry would be marketing directly towards children or teens. i think that what some of

the things that are definitely senateaised in that hearing did raise concerns among howe at the hearing about those are being marketed. or as far as quantifiable anything of that nature, that is determined. >> it seems like the e-cigarette exploded.y has -- industry has exploded. why is it growing so fast? it started back in probably around 2006, late 2006 was a small growing user base for electronic cigarettes and has grown to million worldwide. the last estimate is that the e-cigarette industry will top $2.5 billion this we are. closed in on $2 billion last we are. for customers and juicers that

reached -- users that reached out to me, they are using it as traditionalve to cigarettes. some have been smoking for 20 plus years. dollar figures, the last year the e-cigarette a $2 billionly business and projected growth looks like this. for 2014,value $2.75 billion. 2015, $3.2 billion. there are 1500 e-liquid makers brandsu.s. with 450 online and 7,700 flavors. anseems like that that is awful lot of manufacturers out there. tobacco industry involved in the different manufacturers? industrythe tobacco itself is a small fraction. companiesree tobacco now have brands that are or will be within the next month or so in in national distribution

the u.s. some of them have acquired some overseas e-cigarette companies as well. majority is independent of willself.o industry i >> we ever talking about michael asking you about regulation of the e-cigarette industry. on thisht hearings somehow is because the f.d.a. is considering what sort of issue onns to e-cigarettes. what gives the f.d.a. the to regulate e-cigarettes? >> well, in 2009 president obama passed a law that gave the f.d.a. authority to tobacco products and after that they went through a process recently where they proposed in april what they call givesg regulations which them the authority or proposing to give them the authority to

regulate electronic cigarette tobaccor nontraditional products as tobacco products under the f.d.a. jurisdiction. to min minors.de des claims made without hard scientific evidence. wouldn't prestrict flavors or advertise. that is something they would a leg up on the regular tobacco indusry? lots of are certainly different restrictions that the traditional cigarette and industry have when it comes to marketing and advertising and flavoring as well. in my discussions with the f.d.a. on this topic they made it clear that the deeming regulations were merely foundational. give them the ability to go further and regulate other industry if they

deem it necessary. that could include flavors and marketing. areas that have raised concerns among those at the f.d.a. as well as public leaders and senators and congressmen. >> and the f.d.a. has extended that comment period on proposed regulations to august 8. and if you want to take a look comments so far. regulations.gov and viewers and listeners can take a look at the page. this wantts of folks to talk about the issue. evening.ogood how should the e-cigarette regulated? >> i wouldn't want to see children smoking the the nicotine.ith

you have vape the e-cigarettes without getting nicotine. i'm 59 years old and i know a group people in my age and in that 45 and older who in tryingunsuccessful to quit cigarettes. success ratea 95% now among that age group of long-term smokers where other things did not work. advertisinggs and goes on to help you quit but not everybody can highthat or it is in too of a dose. >> is it working for you? an e-cigarette smokeer? trying to become an e-cigarette smoker right now. cartridges are more expensive than right now i make comes cigarettes and it

out to $6 a carton which is not i would have had a better reason for quitting if it expensive.e more honestly i'm in the situation where there aren't any other wouldatives for me and i like to become an e-cigarette smoker and i believe that tried one of the tisdaldisposables. >> michael you are writing about that today. the associated press headline says for smokers can e-cigarettes save money. what did you find? >> in calculating the numbers the e-cigarettes industry if you are a regular e-cigarettes would save, you know, anywhere between hundreds and thousands of a year for most smokers. a primeu think that is motivation for people wanting to over?

>> that is not what i hear from most of the users have that reached out to me. majority of them are looking for it as an alternative to traditional tobacco cigarettes that he have been smoking for said, 20 plus years. >> i just want to make sure that at also the number of teens using. we talked about advertising aimed at teens. the c.d.c., the centers for disease control says that the usage of e-cigarettes is 10% high school students in 2012, up from 5%. byhas been tried 1.78 million middle and high whool students and most troyed e-cigarette teenagers cigarettes.egular we will hear from mitch in citrus heights california. an e-cigarette smoker, right? >> i am. not had aars i have single regular cigarette. wasve been smoking since i

24. i'm now 43. and for two years i have been smoking e-cigarettes. desireave not had any whatsoever to return to regular cigarettes. oust displaytrage hears. it illustrated everything wrong with our political system. it gave them the opportunity to express outrage and to express they knew on which very little. and i feel ashamed as an american citizen who has benefited after so many failures smoking by e-cigarettes. >> okay, mitch. michael, what did you hear in his comments about when saw at hearing?e >> well, i mean as far as his certainly hiss opinion. that the senators

were raising issues that were and that willem either be addressed through other congressional matters or they choose tot pass through congress. have to wait for the f.d.a. to look at the science and decide how best to e-cigarettes. >> one of the officials testifying was the executive witenjoi. bruno mar mars invests in the theany and started using product for his mom. this is robert in california. your television. i will put you on hold for a second. beachad with palm gardens. samuel in florida. go ahead. in palmamuel and i live beach gardens and i am partly

opposed to e-cigs. honestly say one thing that just within a short drive there is ai live shopping plaza that sells e-cigs and i see a lot of children walking past that. just i'm just opposed to it. beeel that if children would tempted they sew adults -- see stores andg into the i think that it sends the wrong message. i really -- i don't see anything that would be positive be said about e-cigs. to hang up now, but i really think these regulatory agencies node to look at -- need to look at who they are marketing and how they are

marketing it. thank you. felberbaummichael how have states regulated in the absence of federal regulation? >> seven val states already passed regulation that limit age of purchase to 18. them have also placed e-cigarette within the regular smoking ban. that is one of the area that a of electronic cigarette makers advertise that the products can be used in places cigarettes areal not allowed and a lot of states are interpreting or passing now to include electronic cigarette in the smoking bans to some additionally started tax them at a higher rate as they would other toe back owe products. show -- tobacco products. >> up next a couple of minutes from the senate health committee. they heard from the heads of the tobacco projects both with the

c.d.c. and the f.d.a., the will betion that charged with regulating e-cigarettes. some of what they sad to hey and we will come back with more phone calls and comments on to regulate e-cigarettes. >> 50 years ago, half of the men win in the of the country smoked cigarettes. couldo companies advertise everywhere including tv and school children carried much boxes with significant coat logos. smoking was common in public places. isay the landscape different. adult cigarette smoking hags down torom 42% in 1965 18% today and tobacco prevention saved eightmeasures million lives over the last 50 years. to, half of the states prohibit smoking in work sites, bars and on tv consequencesal

with hard hitting ads showing real people fighting sorous and disability from smoking. to makeled 1.6 million a quit attempt and over 100,000 to quit for good. every day, children smoke their first cigarette. deaths half ad million a we are in the united states and another 16 million from smokingfer related disease. tobacco epidemic was initiated and sustained by the aggressive strategies of the tobacco industry which deliberately misled the public of smoking. in addition to making the products powerfully addictive nearly a million dollars an hour on promotions and develop products such as the fruit and candy flavored little cigars and electronic cigarettes. cigars appeal even more to youth than adults because of prices.ors and lower

responses to the survey showed nonhispanicong black students in 2012 nearly 2009. the rate in cigarette used surged in recent levelsn 12th grades to we have not seen in a decade. e-cigarettes are heavily and radio and some proves unproven health claims. as a result, nearly 1.8 million students reported trying a cigarette in two of. 2012. that look like device.es to a tank f.d.a. deeming proposal would establish important regulatory allow for mored comprehensive protections as we move forward. alone is. regulation insufficient and the process will take time. states and many cities are folding them into clean indoor air policies and

enacting bans on sales to minors. existct that e-cigarette and are being market by some tobacco companies as being the as signatur cigarettes but safs shift.tic they could be beneficial if they are completely substituted for tobacco and could assist in a rapid transition to a society of burntle or no use tobacco products. products are overwhelmingly responsible for andcco related death disease. cigarettes appeal to children time userslf of long and are addictive by tee second base. continue, rates 5.6 million american children will die early pause of smoking. is we know what works and we a regulatory frame work to accelerate progress. is we aren't doing enough of what works like 100% smoke free policies, higher

prices, access to cessation treatments, hard hitting media tobacco control programs. notedogress including as from companies bike c.v.s. which selling tobacco products in october. we can help americans live healthier lives and prevent one this three ander is economyave our $300 billion annually and prevent half a million premature a year. thank you for the committee attention to this important to answer i'm happy any important questions you may have. >> thank you very much. mr. zeller, please proceed. >> thank you, chairman hark win sanderking member alex and senator burr. i'm mitch zeller director of the the for tobacco products or c.t.p. i'm honored to be here to activities ind.a. implementing the family smoke act.ntion and control

next month marks the five year the tobaccoof control act. allo that gave f.d.a. comprehensive tools to protect .he public since the act became law, in 2009, we have made significant establishing a comprehensive effective and sustainable frame work for tobacco product regulation. our first priority was the center for the tobacco products. the first new center at f.d.a. in 21 years. c.t.p. has grown from a handful of employ wees in the fall of -- employees to nearly 500 today. during the startup phase even as was establishing itself and creating infrastructure and hiring personnel we were required by law to meet more mandatory statutory deadlines and assess user fees,

the scientific sad risery committee and refer initial issues for consideration all of center met nearly deadlines.dee developing the science base for enforcing thetion law issuing regulations and industry and educating the public about the risks associated with tobacco use c.t.p. is committed carefully and reviewing all tobacco product submissions. established performance measures that include time frames for review wemany of the submissions receive. as a regulatory agency, we can only go as far as the regulatory science will take us. uses researchnd to better understand tobacco differences ine

products change the behavior of users and nonusers and how to best reduce the harm from the products. partner as well with f.d.a.'s own national center for toxicological research. enforcement of the act and implementing regulations is through tobacco retail compliance check inspections, inspections of domestic manufacturers and imported tobacco products and review of promotions, advertising and labeling. c.t.p. provides compliance education and training to regulated industry. in february, we launched a national public education the real cost to prevent youth tobacco use and of teens whomber become regular smokers. facts andmpelling vivid imagery designed to change over timed behaviors

and educate youth about the dangers and to encourage them to be tobacco free. some challenges in the five years since c.t.p. was including the growing pains inherent in building a body from the ground up. we worked through the qualified, hiring staff, developing the processes procedures and even the toicated i.t. resources carry out c.t.p. important functions. regulating tobacco products is otherly different from products traditionally regulated by f.d.a. our responsibility is unprecedented. has tasked atry regulatory agency to evaluate new tobacco products before base on public health criteria and we also had to retaila tobacco compliance program unique even within f.d.a. we intend to sustain the momentum needed to achieve our harms andducing the

risks associated with tobacco use.ct >> calm of the key government thecials involved on research were asking you how e-cigarette should be regulated. by michaeled fauberbaum. remind us of the deadline for the f.d.a. a deadline coming up in august. what happens after ha? >> after the public comment period that ends the beginning august they can take as long as they feel necessary to review draft theents and they haven'tish somehowed a time table yet but there is a lot of pressure on from theou have seen two recent senate hearings to passing some -- swiftly on passing some sort of regulatory frame work. regulations.gov for the comments there. comments at c-span chat.

jake is saying he is 61 years old. packs a day and now vapes exclusively. sara says it is great to hear the success stories i'm proud of tobacco andquitting speaking up. this one say is parents must actionsponsibility for of their own children. parent of smoking children should be jailed for abuse. allison says scientists should be scientists and activists activists. and we welcome your comments, too. go back to calls. robert, evening. doing?are you >> fine, thank you. pick up your phone instead of the speaker we would hear you better. >> okay, fine. >> that would be good. now?ay >> well, go ahead, robert with your comment. >> okay. i cant know too much how answer your question but i'm 85 years old. veteran.

i wore a badge, i have been a cop for 39 years. around a lot.n now when you come to the smoking stuff i refer to something like i was in the military hospital. you go in the hospital and they will have cigarettes in there but now -- they don't have cigarettes but now the advantage cigarettes. they won't contaminate nobody else. in a bar.smoking we have to go in there and do a job we don't have time for. hey, look, these nice thing, are a people can smoke. then we go into the home. in there andildren parents in there. what i found out in the home, i notice they smoke. the mother will smoke outside so she doesn't contaminate the husband smokes outside and when they go back thede they smoke e-cigarette and i thought that was a night thing. >> let me ask michael about the the smokeresence of

for those who aren't e-cigarette familiar or smokers. when you walk into a room full of people and you covered this since 2005. room alamoke-filled tobacco?like >> it is different atmosphere. i attended a convention that held here in richmond a couple of years ago and in a lot walk in and you will see some clouds of smoke because there were a lot of the room that were using e-cigarettes and obviously smoke, itnecessarily is vapor. is not the same thing for when you look at it comparatively. on as far as the science whether the vapor from e-cigarettes have any impact on users, you know, similar

to traditional second hand smoke there is still a lot of work being done out there to determine that. montana.go to montana.n chateau, go ahead. >> this is barbara. thei was really shocked at senate hearing that senator rockefeller chaired that these e-cigarettes have flavors and advertisements are cartoon advertisements. flavors like bubble gum. to attractt set up adults. that is set up to attract young children. and words like cool versus the 1940's and 1950's. there should be regulations e-cigarettehe manufacturers from using flavors that are primarily attractive to people.g

>> michael fauberbaum would the regulations deal with flavors in any way? >> they don't explicitly teal flavors. -- deal with flavors. the regulations themselves as they are proposed right now establish a framework in order to allow the f.d.a. to do regulations town the line if they deem it necessary. to look at science whether flavors children or are only being used to attract children or if the product is being used by adults and that will be something that they will determine down the line. is caroline in east haven, connecticut. user?e an e-cigarette >> hi, how are you? >> i'm doing fine. so you use e-cigarettes? do.es, i >> go ahead with your comments. >> my concerns are that there

haven't really been any studies about the effects of other people. have a son in high school and they are smoking them in school. they -- i mean who take care of the regulations? >> the high school hasn't stopped them from smoking? >> no. and it's in a lot of different towns. >> are localities like her case of a high school not a-- allowing kids to smoke, what is the situation in localities? are they many of them encountering the same sort of thing? >> a lot of states are including these in their indoor smoking bans. localities as well have explicitly stated that these products are prohibited for use inside schools and that various from locality from locality. but there are a growing number

of these areas and school districts that are placing restrictions on e-cigarettes inside their property. >> in general, most employers these days have a smoking area outside. you can't smoke inside the building. what has been your experience of what you have seen so far? >> as far as i know, i haven't heard explicitly one way or another whether companies are prohibiting e-cigarettes. seems to be a case-by-case basis from the folks i have spoken to. some are looking at those types of policies from folks that i have spoken with, but i couldn't say for sure whether there are current prohibitions or encouragements in place in different workplaces. >> chevy chase, maryland. how should the government

regulate e-cigarettes? >> it is a complicated issue. but in general, we need more regulations and laws. as a young person i'm appalled at the fact that the companies are focusing on flavors. it is all about money. as a young person, i have seen on my facebook, i have seen ads, advertising these e-cigarettes and advertising the different flavors. i just can't believe it. we need more regulation. no more flavors. much more restrictive in terms of who you are marketing this to. but in general, more regulation. right now they have free rein and i agree with senator boxer, we can't go back to the old tobacco. it is happening all over again. >> ben, in chevy chase,

maryland. michael is here. we recently -- you mentioned a moment ago this convention of people who like to smoke and the people who sell their wares and we got a video from one of the conventions in tampa, florida and we will give you a taste of what that convention was like. >> i'm here and totally wicked. this is brian. and brian, how long have you been doing this? >> i have been with the company for a couple of years now. originally the manager for the tampa store and now designing our new stores. we have a brand new store that opened just two days ago in st. pete beach. [laughter] >> and tons of people, awesome. >> the first e-cigarette that i

er used was totally wicked blueberry. >> and that is totally wicked. >> are you a vapor yourself? >> smoked for 30 years and i actually quit in about two weeks after i started using this product and that's what turned me on to totally wicked. >> which one is your favorite? >> that's a hard wup. there are so many. we have 150 flavors to choose from. i like the tobaccos. some of the more savory flavors. i go back and forth. >> you are wavering. >> i'll pick one for you. blueberry. you eberry-blackberry, have to try that. >> this is what he was going to say. welcome to the favorite booth at

the event. it's fuzzy and furry, it's pink. very feminine right up dimitri's alley. >> that's where we saw you last with lush vapor. tell us a little bit. what is up with lush vapor? >> trying to reach the east coast. and we want to gain more exposure out here. we do get a lot of following from across the nation, but we don't make appearances as much. >> pleasure to have you here and i wish more west coast companies could do that. the people on the east coast want to have the west coast stuff. any new flavors you are going to be releasing? >> belly dancer series because we are known for our belly dancers. we have great flavors. the grape flavors, the grape,

apple, cherry, watermelon. >> you have done a wonderful job. >> when i asked one of the beautiful girls if they knew who she was, there she is. look at her. they definitely know who she is. lisa, thanks so much. best of luck with your company. >> i'm here with mike. and obviously, we have to say first, look at your -- >> it's been a big hit. positive feedback about our pump system. and a way to provide success tom blends in a quick manner as well for all of voring our line. >> you mean from the top, obviously. >> we can set our pumps to any content that we need. e set ours for three milly

liters. make your own custom blend. >> that is really cool. what is the most popular one that you have? >> a lot of our tobaccos, banana is popular, watermelon. we uzbekistan organic ingredients and close to fruits and desserts that we represent. we wanted something consistent. >> how long have you been doing this? >> we have been in the brick and mortar industry for three, four months. and we met a lot of headway. we are the first company to sponsor. we are doing a lot of big things. i started off as a user watching you guys' show and now i'm rubbing elbows with you guys and

it's a beautiful thing. take care you guys. >> that's some video from a industry. there is a whole lot going on there rather than going to the seven-11, a whole theme going on. >> there is a cult following that goes along with a lot of these products. most of the folks that attend conferences like that from the folks i have spoken with, they'll use this tank systems where they can fill custom-flavored liquid nicotine into their e-cigarettes. >> we are asking you how should e-cigarettes be regulated. oin us by phone or facebook or #cspan.

this is one from ian who says let's not regulate something for once. not to politician regulate. >> i tried to quit and my doctor told me to quit. the first time i tried, i quit and never looked back. and not giving you a hard time but smart people never start smoking. glad you quit. let's go to an e-cigarette smoker in san antonio, texas, kathy. >> i would like to say something about the e-cigarettes. i have been smoking since i was 16. i'm now 56. i have been smoke-free for a year because of the e-cigarette. i have tried patches,

everything. and went back. and i don't know about other stores, but here in san antonio, all the product is behind the counter. you cannot buy it if you are under 18. >> do you feel healthier, kathy? >> i walk all day. i used to not be able to walk and i would get tired within five to 10 minutes. >> michael is there any data out there on people using e-cigarettes to quit and whether it's working? >> there is certainly studies that are ongoing about who is using electronic cigarettes. like i mentioned earlier and from what we have heard during this program today, there certainly seem to be a large number of smokers who are using these products for that reason. the difficulty with f.d.a. is that these companies are not permitted to market them in that way unless they want to be

marketed as a smoking cessation device similar to a nicotine patch or nicotine gum. the companies have to be very careful how they market these products. but as we have heard from plenty of people today, this is an option that they seem to be seeking out. >> why do they have to be so careful in that definition? >> the way the f.d.a. framework was set up, if they are making a therapeutic claim, you have to go through the center for drug delivery devices, which is a separate entity from the center for tobacco products. and that would take clinical trials in order to prove the effectiveness of the product, similar to, as i said, something like nicotine gum or patches. >> seems like in the senate hearing we heard earlier, that

was the reason behind their company was to get people to stop smoking. did the senators seem to buy that? >> well, i can't speculate as to whether they seem to buy that or not. but as you have pointed out, you did hear from two of the companies in that senate hearing, craig being one of them and in my discussions with him has said yes, their goal is to, as he likes to call it obsolete cigarettes. but that's not necessarily a cessation claim. that's their goal and that's the way that they -- the way they frame it. >> aaron in hollywood, florida. how should the government regulate e-cigarettes? >> hi, how are you doing? one thing is, yes, the f.d.a. should regulate it, but not to the point to what they are trying to regulate as.

my father-in-law is choking and he has been smoking for 60 years and has all sorts of health issues. if they put regulations that will kill the mom and pop stores that one it's going to hurt the economy and not have the outreach with people in his age. they shouldn't market this stuff to children and needs to be in some kind of ads where it is a cessation tool. i have smoked since i was 13 years old. i have parents that never taught me, parents that never told me the ins and outs of smoking and i picked them up and smoked away. i'm 35 years old now. i have quit smoking cigarettes or year and a half and saved $2,800. i feel better. my taste and sense of smell has come back.

better balance and more energy than what i did when i was smoking. >> does the f.d.a. take into account these comments that we are hearing tonight and the comments that they see online? will they really drive that decision? >> well, it's certainly a public comment period where various people from within the industry and average consumers can voice their opinion. how that impacts their ultimate decision, i cannot say. but i do know from previous areas where they've had public comment periods within the tobacco realm, they do cite some of those public comments in terms of how they chose to regulate different products. >> more of your calls and comments coming up in just a bit. we wanted to show you the questioning with the f.d.a. and c.d.c. and senator alexander,

republican from tennessee. >> where do you come on this difference of opinion on e-cigarettes? david adams at the legacy foundation. make the cigarette obsolete. many kids are starting out with e-cigarettes and going on to smoke conventional cigarettes. do we know enough what the impact of e significance relates is? >> i need to answer as a regulator. we have proposed to extend our jurisdiction over electronic cigarettes that meet the statutory definition of a tobacco product. we are funding literally dozens of studies to answer all of the questions we have about e cigarettes and we have far more questions about what is in the product and what's in the vapor. we have questions about who is using the products and how they are being used.

>> so you don't come down on either side yet as to whether it's a tool for more important as a tool toll help those who already smoke cigarettes to stop smoking or more dangerous, as a tool to encourage kids to start smoking. >> the only appropriate position for f.d.a. is they have the potential to do good and potential to do harm and we need answers to questions. >> don't you have to have -- well, when will you have enough answers to make the kind of decisions that you are expected to make here? >> we don't need the answers to those questions to complete the deeming rule-making that we launched several weeks ago. in terms of going forward to figure out what approaches should be applied to e-cigarettes when they come within our regulatory reach, we need answers to those questions. let me give you an example.

we are spending a lot of money on what is called the longitudinal study. called the population assessment of tobacco and health and following tens of thousands of adolescents and adults and over time, studies like that will begin to give us information that answers some of the behavioral questions, who is using the products, how they are being used. we need additional information on the products themselves. there are liquid nicotine products and exposure to the liquid nicotine products. when we have answers, we can use the regulatory tools to figure out a framework to regulate e-cigarettes but starts with the authority to regulate them which is the deeming proposal is all about. >> senator burr?

>> thank you, mr. chairman. irector zeller, do you believe that some tobacco products present greater risk to individuals than other products? >> yes. >> ok. the -- do you believe noncombustible products are likely to reduce harm for individuals that otherwise would be using a conventional significance rett? >> it -- cigarette? >> you can take any noncombusting product, whether it's a smokeless tobacco product, e-cigarette and depends who is using them and how they are being used. if we look at a subset of

smokers, they are going to continue to smoke. half of them will die prematurely later in life from that decision. if we could get all of those people to completely switch all of their cigarettes for one of these products, that would be good for public health. our job is to figure out what is going on at the population level and includes the much larger group of smockers, not like the first group i defined, a much larger group of smokers who are concerned about their health and interested in quitting and what happens instead of those people completely substituting with a noncombustible product they start using both and then we would say that might not be good for public health and our job is to figure out what the net of those possible behaviors including any nigs which would not be good for public health policy. regulatory

>> so much for the adults that chose the gum five years ago and chewed the gum and had a cigarette and couldn't smoke at work and does that mean that nicorette is not a useful tool for that individual? only a useful tool if that individual uses it to quit? >> i would concede that any of these products at an individual level can do good. what is challenging for all of us giving us the law is the decisions we have to make are not going to be made about what might be good for the theoretical individual. we have to have regulatory science to support decisions that inform what is happening at a population level. we have to look at all possible behaviors. >> if your trend line is this way, then the public health effect is better. you have less people using

combustible products. you have more of those individuals who need to quit or gone to a reduced-harm product. t me say for the record, c.v.s. still sells nicorette gum, probably all of the products that aid in eliminating or reducing the rate of smoking. it's not like they threw out the whole category. the retailer that reduced a large amount of sales, they still believe that risk reduction is an important thing for them to endorse, would you agree? >> i would answer it in this way, senator, the products that you are referring to have been approved by f.d.a. as safe and effective medications and have been on the market for over 30 years. there is a robust evidencee