you always need someone to analyze the data. that is what he was doing. he no longer has to walk, but he can still analyze the data using these tools. >> next question? >> i have heard about facebook's new ngo. and they want to provide internet signal everywhere. to remote places. what is the biggest challenge you see here for facebook, to provide internet with drones, internet signal? >> one of the big challenges is flying at such a high altitude. the way they are proposing doing this is with solar powered aircraft at 70,000 feet. the benefit is that controlled airspace ends at 60,000 feet. the challenging part is to actually get up to 70,000 feet

and operate, where there is very little air and where you need an incredibly light aircraft, which is in most cases not incredibly sturdy. but you have to fly through all the other layers of airspace to get up there. that is a difficult challenge. that is an altitude that is nearing space, so you have to harden the electronics and software to deal with things ike radiation. >> after dinner, you were talking about the fundamental technology. similar to the technology of atellites. >> one thing we think a lot about, are we competing with satellite? the microsats, between elon musk and planet labs, map box, just bought by google, we saw this before. 15 years ago it was satellite

phones versus cell phones. you put 64 satellites out there and cover the world. why would you put cell phone towers every three miles? that is crazy, so expensive. well, we saw how that ended up. it turned out the higher bandwidth and resolution of the terrestrial network beat the reach of the satellite network. right now, these things have 100 times better resolution than satellites. and they are under the clouds, the data is free, and you can get access to the skies. but satellites are getting better. they're getting cheaper. i think this will be one of those kind of epic battles, satellites versus drones. >> you can get consistent coverage with technology like that. >> one thing i want to answer, the question about facebook. getting social networks interested in flying things is phenomenal. it helps all of us.

just like the innovations that got everyone excited, helped everybody. i think that ambitious projects like that are fascinating. challenging? absolutely. a lot of the stories out there, specifically on that technology, i don't think -- none of it has been tested, necessarily, but at least we are thinking big. and i think that is huge, being able to get there. satellite companies -- i think that will happen. it is becoming easier and easier. flying under the clouds. t is just going to happen. >> next question. >> whether analyzing a field in agriculture or photography, what types of interactions do you guys see of drones with

nature? a bird landing on the drone, colliding with it? tell us about your xperience. >> i am smiling because i wrote an article that talked about my 15 friends that lost phantoms the month after i flew over water and had the video go viral. many protected areas have over flight restrictions. you are not supposed to fly over them at low altitude anyway, mostly for nesting birds and other wildlife. i have flown over a lot of wildlife. i find that for the most part these things are completely ignored. they don't know what they are. if it is a big animal, these things are small. if you are flying over a whale, which i have not done. a lot of people will be listening to this. there are a lot of rules against these things in areas. bird strikes are a factor.

if you can design these things so they are resistant to being struck by things. accidents can absolutely happen. >> regarding birds in particular, the copter is not a problem but the fixed-wings are perceived as intrusions into territorial spaces by birds of prey. hawks often attack planes. i can tell you, the hawks win. anything that flies will investigate these things. birds usually just fly away from these things. some elephants have been afraid of them because they sound like bees and elephants don't like ees. you have to look at each animal and see how it might respond, but mostly it is looking at where you are flying to determine if you should be lying there. >> we had a big company coming to us when we were basically saying we were about data.

multiple companies came to us asking -- it makes me believe this will be a massive space. this company basically wanted to hire us to dissuade birds away from these turbines. and the contract and the deal was enough for us to say, let's ry it out. we did a test. extremely challenging. you are trying to keep birds away from these turbines. birds get used to you. they get scared first, but they get used to you and go right past it. it is sort of -- as you put more of these things in the air i think birds are just going to get used to these things flying around. >> one last story.

the california condor is an endangered species. they have been attracted by anches, carcasses. the natural territory is down in baja. so people in charge of helping condor conservation want to encourage the condors to move down south. so they drop these cow carcasses on a breadcrumb trail down south. how do you tell a condor there is a dead cow 10 miles away? birds look for circling columns of other birds. you don't have a lot of time. you drop a dead cow, you want to get a bird over it. how do you circle? the answer is a drone. you get a drone to circle over a dead cow, and from a distance it looks like another bird of prey. keep doing it every 10 miles all the way to baja. >> wow. next question, please.

> way over here. you know, we have been talking a lot about drones as flying objects in terms of pound to pound, but as you said, they could become like dust. i'm wondering how you are interacting with clients, with the public like this, and thinking about the drone in our centerpiece tonight, able to listen to our conversation. while privacy was an aside, i don't think that was the case. how are you thinking about the evolution of drones in terms of embedded sensors? humans do not perhaps have the capacity to sense.

>> do you have a smart phone? because i have been recording you the whole time. no -- the sensors have been here he whole time. his space will catch up to the phone. more and more sensors are getting packed in, all the time. i don't know if it can sustain itself forever, but answering your question about drones everywhere, people are building drones for water monitoring. they navigate in the water, completely autonomous. so you will see a lot of innovation beyond flying hings. they just get the most attention. but there is innovation in robotics everywhere. mining, these trucks that are fully autonomous in australia. industries as a whole are looking for automation. when it comes to safety, remove the human from very dangerous places and put robots instead. that goes beyond just flying

hings. >> there has to be a privacy discussion, fundamentally, if you talk about miniature things that can move in space and record. we have to think about privacy is a fundamental issue. no matter what tool you use to violate someone's privacy, you still violated their privacy. so i would love to get the discussion away from drones and just tool sensors, and make policy around the entire class. > next question?

>> this question is in response to jonathan's statement about hardware becoming free. in the course of technology there has been the idea that software would become free. practically every new service i enroll in is with free software. you seem not so concerned about the trend. i am curious how the business model works around that. >> certainly a lot of web-based software begins as free and it is definitely the case that a lot of people, especially large enterprises paying for software -- i know i pay for a lot of software, our company pays for a lot of software. >> it is such -- some scenarios you are talking about using, driving significant volume, significant volume is at stake ere. >> i think about the drone industry today as having a lot of corollaries to the early computer industry. it is certainly the case that people started by building

hardware, building in their garage, where what you really bought was a big brick of hardware in which there was very little software available. and the emergence of things like the personal computer, where a lot of, initially you are buying hardware and then there is the emergence of operating systems. we saw dos and windows become the platform of choice for a number of decades, then software moved into the web and we began to see a model that was a lot more around software that is free, but data that is paid for. i would not be surprised if there was a similar progression in where a lot of value is in this space as well. >> i agree. our model, we give away all our

software, all open source. we make money by instantiating software and hardware. we get our share. i agree. ultimately the data will be where the value lies, and the services around the data. >> a lot of the services -- they are not free. you are, the product is you and you are paying in a different urrency. the data is most important. the other thing about hardware becoming free, there are consumables and all this stuff, the batteries. all the other stuff may it free, but the batteries you will have to replace and they will not be free. >> next question. >> you mentioned a few times that the drone is just a tool. we have heard how it is a tool

to collect data. but i'm curious about in the world of art and cinematography, whether it be a scorsese film, espn, the next "blue planet," what will the cinematographer be able to do that they have never been able to do in the past? >> there, the great thing about creative arenas is it's really p to the people out there with the tools. we think about these as cameras you can arbitrarily position. so it's mostly low altitude stuff. anything beyond reach is new territory. and we see now a mad rush for people to collect as much of that footage as possible because it is all new. he first video i had that went viral was just of surfers. no one had filmed surfers from 15 feet up a for and tracked them as they go down waves. it was not a particularly great video, but it captured the imagination of a lot of people. cameras that can stay in one place at low altitude creates all these new opportunities. there are significant challenges. these things make noise. they are big. they have the possibility of crashing.

so there are challenges, but if you just do a youtube search on drone videos. you will find virtually every kind of low altitude imagery imaginable. some of it is incredibly reative.

a lot of it is just people having fun in their backyards. the whole spectrum. >> if you look at the rise of gopro being used professionally, one of the things that is amazing about gopro is it is kind of disposable. it can get damaged. when will drones be considered disposable in that context? >> we are sort of already there. they are similarly priced. this costs less than a high-end gopro. they don't cost very much, and i think about them as being tools that are essentially disposable. if you are working in imagery, you already spent a lot of money and time and gear on travel, and these are relatively inexpensive compared to all the other costs. the thing i am worried about when you talk about them being disposable is littering. you do not want to consider them to really be disposable. if you go to national parks now, see a beautiful arch, you will find phantom propeller parts all over it because everyone has tried to fly through it. the batteries can catch fire. there's potential for bad things to happen. one of the things we are working on with the scientific end is

disposable drones made out of biodegradable corn-based foam. you send 100 out, and none come back, but the data comes back. they did things in the arctic measuring temperature. when they don't have to come back it doubles the range. they land in the water, foam melts, a very small amount of etal floats to the bottom. the batteries are an issue. we have not resolved that. but we resolved the foam. >> on the create of elements, with the golden age of videography we have in our pockets the most extraordinary cameras and software, and a standard where we are able to tell her own stories, record our own lives in cinema quality. this is just one more of the tools. if you watch an nfl game, there are cameras on wires, you get these incredible aerial shots.

why shouldn't your kid's soccer game be recorded in the same fidelity? >> one more question. >> good evening. regarding the application of drones for delivering goods in rural or urban areas, where we have hundreds of drones flying, how do you consider the problem of air traffic? who's going to monitor and manage it? a public agency? >> we are working with nasa to explore options of building out what is considered a low altitude air traffic management system for very small uav's for this futuristic application of something like aerial delivery. some of the key elements of

that, connectivity, internet connectivity with the drones themselves so they can all be relaying in real time where they are positioned and coordinate like the robots in kiva systems, all communicating in real time so that what looks like a near-miss between two robots is actually a well-orchestrated system where they never could have hit each other. >> there is a standard called adsb, basically a transponder. aircraft carry this thing. it doesn't have to be a physical device. we already have a telemetry link. it can be a virtual signal by which the aircraft sends its position, broadcast by the adsb network that the faa may run.

our vehicles can already report heir position. >> like cars have registration and are tracked by cameras and police, i believe early days -- we are working on this thing called air highway. we talked to the city to see how they can benefit from these things flying around. focusing on how the city benefits, and from registration, toll payment, tracking every move so the cities benefit from this thing flying around, then we layer on top what the technology would be to lay out a ery ambitious project. 15 years from now. that's why i never did it. >> thanks. back to karen.

>> i want to say thank you to our speakers so much for being so sharing with your erspectives. really appreciate it. also to robin for guidance before and during the program, guiding the conversation. you did a wonderful job. we have a small gift for you. the speaker t-shirt of the churchill club. please wear that in good health. video should be available on our youtube channel, and you have been a very wonderful audience, as usual. thank you so much. we hope to see you next week. good night. national captioning institute] able satellite corp. 2014] >> more now on the safety of

drones in the u.s. from "washington journal," this is 40 minutes. >> craig is with the "washington post" focusing on national security, launched an investigation into the safety record of american drones. why you decided to look into this, what prompted you to do so? guest: drones are about counterterrorism strikes and privacy concerns, surveillance, but the congress passed a law that said essentially to the federal aviation administration that they needed to legalize the use of drones in the united states by next year and while the other subjects have gotten attention, there has been little scrutiny of the safety records of drones, are they safe to fly in the same airspace, is the

text noling up to snuff, how is it going to work. host: f.a.a. is looking at this. but they will miss the deadline to integrate it into u.s. skies. guest: there are a number of reasons and number of technology call and regulatory hurdles that the f.a.a. hasn't been able to set rules for, on how to keep he skies safe. host: inside the newspaper "when drones fall from the skies, i want to show this statistic that you write about, more than 400 large military drones crashed in accidents between 2001 and december, 2013. how did you find that information out?

guest: the reason we looked at the military record on this, they have more experience in flying drones. they have flying drones in iraq and afghanistan and many other parts of the world, but they they have used them in warfare and have the biggest record. so we went back to september 11, 2001, and with a number of freedom of information act requests with the air force, army, marine corps and we put together all the major crashes over certain thresholds over that period and tried to examine and determine the patterns to find out why these things were crashing, how often, what were the circumstances and what lessons has the military learned as the f.a.a. tries to figure out how to fly these things safely. host: why are they crashing, the

military drones? guest: we are talking about people talking about the predator drone and the reaper drone and drones that are the size of regular aircraft, not small tiny drones that you might see online. the reason they are crashing is because of pilot error. they require pilots to fly them from the ground and they were making misjudgments and getted heated data. ost: these are flying in afghanistan and they have a joystick eventually. guest: sometimes there are pilots flying by satellite link from thousands of miles away. and sitting in a ground control

station in nevada flying a drone in afghanistan but when they come in for landing they hand it off to a local crew that is in afghanistan or iraq and they can almost see the drones coming in and they'll take control remotely but maybe from a few miles away. but those are the two sets of pilots they would have. host: why are these remote drone pilots, what is causing them to push a wrong button or cause a drone to crash? guest: it isn't easy to fly. it is a complicated procedure that you have to get the landing just right. you have to make sure the dr. drone is coming in at the right speed. a regular pilot sitting in a cockpit and feel the wind and hear the vibrations. f you are doing this in remote

control. it isn't easy. there is a lag of a second or two between the satellite link. you are doing it with a slight time delay. imagine driving your car, you hit the brakes and you don't feel them go on for a second or two. host: has that led to many of these crashes? guest: the drone would come in for a landing, a wind gust comes in, something isn't quite right and in the space of the second or two between the pilot feels it or sees it, sometimes it's too late. host: are these drone pilots, do they sit in a simulator. one of the crashes you write about, the pilot didn't realize hey were flying upside down.

guest: that illuminated the kind of mistakes that can be made. they train on those constantly. but in this case, the pilot who was flying a drone in afghanistan had been warned by other crew members, don't press that button, because if you do, the plane will fly upside down and she thought they were kidding. the plane was going upside and i befuddled andjust she didn't realize it was flying upside down and she thought they were joking. host: where are most of these crashes taking place and what has been the impact of them? guest: more than half of them were in iraq and afghanistan which is what you would expect

given the wars going on there. almost a quarter were in the united states which surprised us a bit. we found almost 49 took place in the united states on training missions since 2001 and then increasingly as drones have been used in africa, we are seeing more. host: africa, gentleman beauty. the drone program for the ilitary is run by what agency? guest: air force by far has the most drones and they have the most experience. second is the army. they have their own fleet of drones, some of them smaller, but they fly them under different conditions, different pilots. the navy has a much smaller fleet and the least is the marine corps. host: what about the c.i.a.? guest: that is classified and we were able to get records from

the military nothing by the c.i.a. host: first part of this series, taking a look at the military guest: we found a lot of patterns whether it is government agencies. one major problem that has not been resolved is the links between the radio transmissions between the pilot on the ground with the joystick trying to control the aired craft -- aircraft. it is like a wireless control. most of the time those links hold up pretty well but it is common for the links to become lost, to go down. imagine your gps with your car if it went out for a few seconds or minutes. prettyuld happen frequently is these links would be disrupted and the pilots

would lose control. it is only a second or two and it is in midair what if this goes on for several seconds, a couple of minutes, even longer, then you have real problems area that is something the faa has had trouble figuring out how to we fix that for when drones become common. independent color, good morning. caller: good morning. my question is since the supreme said that money is speech for the first amendment, how is outlaw throughot the fourth amendment fourth search and seizure, patriot act, national state registry and homeland security spying on citizens in the united states, etc.? thank you for c-span. you bring up a couple of

really good issues. our newspaper has filed a legal brief on behalf of a young man who has been flying drones for commercial purposes and the fda -- faa had find him. our newspaper as well as many others filed a legal brief singing the faa in french on the news gathering rights of the country by banning drones. a lot of news organizations get use them to footage of crowns. fairly inexpensive way. how does the first amendment factor into this and how do you balance that with safety how will they: deal that with security? presidential candidates and the crowds that gather around there and news organizations or otherwise with their drones above them. good: that is a really

question. right now is the guide is you are not supposed to fly them around crowds or airports and cities but as they become more legalized, that is exactly the scenario. how will that work? who will be flying bees and will they be well-trained or will people on the ground going to be safe? the caller brings up fourth amendment search and seizure and to what degree can may be used for surveillance? if you are in your backyard and you have a reasonable expectation of privacy there and someone wants to fly a camera drone overhead and take pictures of you, who was in the right and who was in the wrong their? guest: it may have been answered already. these are not that easy to land. wouldn't that stand to reason that maybe it is easier for them

to hit a target also? they might not be so easy to control. what did you find out? caller: that is another good question. the use gps coordinates to pinpoint very specific locations to file a missile. he haven't found any missiles going off course in that way. you can argue that people being targeted, in afghanistan or iraq or places like that, by and large the missiles go where the crews portland to go. host: bill is in florida. caller: i would like to thank the gentleman for his words. an indifference to collateral damage that occurs with these drones.

from theof coverage news organizations such as fox -- host: let me take those two points. the connection with you is not good. four the washington post, we have devoted a lot of ink and coverage to who is being targeted in counterterrorism strikes with drones. it is not an easy subject to get information about. it is an important one. news organizations should and do -- devote a lot of attention to it. focused on safety. that has gotten less attention. host: when you focus on the military in part one, the military has flown 4 million hours. how does that compare with domestic use?

guest: the vast majority of that has been overseas. more and more, is happening in the united states as the wars have ended. afghanistan, that is drawing down and more drones are coming back for training purposes in the united states. the military has been applying for more hermits. in shared airspace with civilian traffic, there has been a significant increase in that. the pentagon says that will go up up. we will see more drones in civilian airspace. host: what does that mean for possible crashes or other accidents? guest: that is good question. the military says they take every precaution and they are extremely careful. they say they have more experience than everybody else. we will not fly them in certain

aircraft or overpopulated areas. we will take care with this. at the same time we have found that there is a number of crashes taking place, including in areas where you would not expect a military drone. will give you an example. armyril, there was an drone the weighs about 400 pounds. it is still pretty big. it was flown from pennsylvania. it crashed. it crashed right next to an elementary school in pennsylvania. the drone came in over the treetops and over the playground. it crashed right in front of the school. it was 30 minutes after the kids had gone home for the day. you can imagine how that made people in that community feel about the interaction and the proximity they have to these kinds of aircraft. host: we are talking with craig

whitlock. we are talking about the safety records of american drones. we just showed you the map of the united states. let me explain this. the faa is creating rules for drone use in the united states. diamonds are accidents involving faa approved drones since 2009. the black circles are close calls involving rogue drones from only 12 to the present. this is part three of his series. we have an independent caller in maryland. caller: good morning. i am complaining about these aircraft in the airspace in baltimore. aircraft overese

, i amand shopping centers a freelance reporter. i have put several articles about-face -- on facebook about it. you can see them coming toward you on highways. it is unsettling. host: are we seeing many more in u.s. skies? onet: i haven't heard's of -- heard of one's around baltimore so much. you hear about small drones that maybe you are just between five and 20 pounds that people can buy online for several hundred dollars. without much training you can fly those. aircraft.ike model they're pretty harmless. they are so easy to fly and can go up to significant heights, people are flying them in places they should not be. this is something we found the third part of our series.

there havet out, been 15 dangerous encounters between small illicit drones being flown over airports and airliners or other private pilots trying to land at an airport. that is something that gives safety advocates and the faa and others nightmares. even though it is a small drone, it can cause a lot of damage when it is flying at 3000 or 5000 feet at a high rate of with af that collides passenger plane. that is a nightmare scenario. to new yorkl go next. caller: has he done any research on the use of xbox in desensitizing the youth. to see if is used

they would be good at being a drone operator. i have a son who's friend applied for the air force. he is a college dropout. he does not have much going for him. addict. xbox they put him on a list grade they gave him money to join. they put them at the top of the list for special training. xbox -- they have statistics about how they're using xbox's. they probably do. they said he just about everything. there is a huge demand for drone pilots in that sort of service. i don't know of xbox as a good experience. i don't know if you should put that on your resume. i am sure hand to eye coordination assented to do with it. pilots need good eyesight and response time. a factor that is

translates to different skills like that. host: we will go to a democratic caller in brooklyn, new york. is what isquestion the public reaction to drones? some withre have been amazon. public opinion is unsettled. surveys finding that the majority of the american public has concerns about the legalization of civilian drones and united states. there are a lot of people who see potential in drones. they can do tasks that would be too expensive or complicated for irregular pilot to do. amazon thing.e he is been very public about

using drones to deliver small farmers with large-scale agricultural operations might want to use drones to apply fertilizer. filmmakers would like to use drones to film movies instead of having helicopters or manned aircraft. there is an endless list of martial potential to use drones. aloft much longer than regular planes. you don't have to have a pilot on board. they are much safer in some ways. you're not risking a highlight in the plane. the question we try to answer is, that sounds good. but what when they are flying the same airspace as everybody else. ? drones beingl allowed in airspace, 63% believed it would be a change for the worse. changeieve it will be a for the better. americans support the use of

drones to target extremists. 61% say they support the strikes. you can see how that compares with other countries. the number of people who disapprove grows in different countries. there seems to be widespread operation outside the united states and israel when it comes to military strikes. guest: i think that is right. there is a disconnect in america. you're more likely to support drone strikes overseas, where people might do you harm or your country harm. when it comes to should they be home,hat -- flown at 's concerns tend to grow. host: what is the chance of someone crashing a drone on purpose as an act of terror? not wantedakers have

to talk about that very openly. it's that is a risk. tore is a big difference between a small drone that weighs five pounds and a predator drone that has a missile on board. i think most people understand that the chances of a terrorist causing trouble getting on a predator drone is remote. if they wanted to find a 20 pound drone and fly around an airport and crash into something, there's not much to prevent that from happening. democraticve a caller in utah. caller: there was drone training in the neighborhood where i live. one of the pilots was bringing a drone to earth level. see how that would affect somebody's heart rate.

he was not a medical person. he thought that was ok. guest: i am not too familiar with the circumstances with that. we see a lot of training for military drones out west. host: what about crashes? guest: we see a lot, particularly in nevada. if you are flying over a in nevada, there are not very many people and it is not a concern. they are seeking more permits from the faa to fly in shared airspace. they have so many that they need more room to do training. host: matt is an independent caller from baltimore. caller: hello. dronesbeen involved with for quite a while. i helped develop the navy runs.

-- drones. you can get a lot of information from operations of drones. that is the technical organization. the principal thing that we have been looking at was jamming and traffic. that theyevident would be wonderful as traffic surveyors.ners -- with multiple news agencies flying, the traffic in the air serious rash problems. good points.ose are i am familiar with your organization. i am not a member. the navy has developed a helicopter drone call the fire scout that takes off from ships.

it looks like a regular helicopter but there is no pilot on board. hacking in jamming and the congestion in the air is a concern. how will the faa can's -- handle that? of newset a lot organizations over washington wanted to get views of traffic on the beltway, there have to be rules of the sky to keep them from running into each other. host: we are talking with craig whitlock who wrote a three-part series about drones. the safetyng at record of american drones. it is a year-long investigation. liz is in a maryland. caller: i guess i got cut off. thesebeen seen drones. i complained. in the woodlawn area.

they do, on the highway. do come up on you on the highway. i have complained to organizations like the department of homeland security. faa and thested the for ad border patrol response. i have not gotten a response. i want to ask mr. whitlock what his position is on people complaining or critics complain about them? people have concerns about what is going on over the homes. they should have a right to complain. it is frustrating to figure out who is flying the aircraft. that is certainly not a new problem with drones. host: what is going on with the faa? ?

guest: congress told them to integrate drones into the airspace by september of next year. at the same time they are under statutory obligation to make sure that this is done safely. that is what they are all about. they need to make sure these guys are safe. safety rate of passenger air traffic is amazing. if you get on an airliner, you are not worried that you're going to crash. that has been very, very rare. how do they incorporate drones into that equation? host: the disconnect seems to be the faa control towers can talk to the pilot of a manned aircraft. how can they talk to the pilot of a drone? to.t: they will be able they do this now with the military. if they are trying to land a drone in afghanistan, they take

a from the same airport as a military jet. whoever is flying the drone has radio contract -- contact with the tower. host: the faa will require the smaller drones to be online with some? guest: if you are a hobbyist and you just want to fly one, that is ok as long to keep it under 400 feet. if you get above 400 feet, that is where you can get into problems. it is ok if you keep away from airports and from urban areas where there are crowds of people. if you want to go to a field somewhere and fly your drone under 400 feet and it is just a hobby, the faa says you're not a danger to anybody else. once you start going higher than that are going over urban areas or airports, problem's and

concert -- problems can occur. ask hisi would like to opinion about the situation with the nsa and the irs and a lot of politicians on the left mainly accusing people of anarchy and terrorism. it would be unsettling for those people to see drones flying all around. if anybody in this country --osed the government host: the cultural aspect of it. guest: there is an interesting political mix in this. you have conservatives and liberals on both ends of the spectrum. they are concerned about government intrusion and civil liberties.

the revolutionary aspect of drones is going to be their ability to conduct surveillance. it is not just that you have a remote controlled airplane. the cameras are very powerful. these are amazing technological advances. they can zoom in very closely. that is a technology that is going to be affordable for anybody in the marketplace. that is going to shake things up as we know it in terms of conducting surveillance for the government and for rival individuals. host: gary is in kentucky. said something that very much concerned me about these private drones. if they can fly 400 feet, birds can bring down a jetliner. are they good enough to fly a drone into a jetliner engine?

they have mandated that they have to do this. homegrown have terrorists. they can get these drones online. we've got your point. guest: i think it would be difficult to aim a drone and a jetliner engine. it is coming in very fast. i don't think they're worried about intentional targeting. it is the accidental targeting by a drone flying overhead, they move slowly. what if an airliner can't see the drone. this is a we found in a number of cases. date can't really see it, it is too small to show up on radar or traffic collision systems. a jetliner can be going several hundred miles per hour. the drone goes much lower.

if they cannot see each other, there might be an accident. that is what they are concerned about. host: william is in texas. caller: if people thought this way when cars were invented and ify was killing people, these drones that are talking to had a dronening over their neighborhood and felt secure with it, it only happens when you get here house invaded and then he would say thank god for the drone. drones bring a lot of capabilities and technological advances that we did not have before. -- changes are going to be it is hard to get your mind around how much this could change aviation. there are technological processes. when cars were invented, people

worried about how this would affect the horse and buggy. there have been a lot of safety improvements in a cars. we have airbags. traffic accident deaths come down. people recognize the capabilities of these advances. how do you do it safely? host: where is the studying and being done on drones and why? sixt: the faa has set up test sites around the country. they are in different locations in states where they will start gathering data by doing experimental flights and feed this data into the faa to say we used this drone in this weather in this condition. here is how they responded. ,his is going to help the faa with rules. these are rules for certifying

the airworthiness of different kinds of drones. you won't be able to build one in your backyard and fly it over and airport. certain drones will have certification for being airworthy. they will have rules for certifying pilots. altitudes be certain that they must be trained for. what will the standards be and how many hours? these are the kinds of things that the faa is sorting out. other than the military, not that many people have experienced trying these things. dead -- entire show was dedicated to the test sites. if you missed that, you can go to www.c-span.org. areer: if the drones getting legalized, what is

stopping citizens from weaponize in them to protect their own a property? the drone as part of their property. technicality the for doing that? guest: it would be easy to buy a drone that has a camera. it would be easy to buy when they can fly 500 feet. to have someone read it with a weapon and fired from remote control, that is a military grade weapon. just like people in the united states can't buy tanks, cap by fighter jets, there would be restrictions on that. this is not the kind of thing that someone would be able to cook up in the garage. i am sure the authorities would have concerned about anybody flying a weaponize drone. there would be a stop put to that very quickly. by the end ofid this year they will introduce

proposed rules for flying small drones. they mean it five pounds or less. -- they mean 55 pounds or less. this is where the burst in market will be. they don't need to fly at high altitudes. aircraft youind of can fly. here is where you can fly them. here is who can fly them. it will take another year or so to take them public comment and finalize the rules. that will be the first days that we will see in the next one to two years. host: we will see more about consumer drones. tonight we will cover the churchill love of california. p.m. east coast time. we are talking with craig whitlock. it we have a caller from lexington, nebraska. caller: sorry.

host: go ahead with your question. how are these powered? guest: that is a good question. .ome have batteries the larger ones that we see the military fly use jet fuel or diesel fuel. , there these things fly isn't a big technological advance in the aircraft. it is how they are operated with these remote control links. they figure out where they are flying and they navigate by gps just like you would if you had a car with gps navigator. they fly of the same thing. that is the technological advancement. it is not the aircraft so much. it is the remote control operations and navigation. host: what is that technology

like? guest: it has come a long way. just like your car can figure out where it is based on gps, it is the same way with drones. tois telling the drone how move in certain directions and slow down or speed up. it can make adjustments. it is just staring at by remote control. it depends on how big the aircraft is. these are things that must be done right. i have to be tested. we are talking about aircraft that range from something they can fit in your hand to something that is as big as a regional jet. you can imagine the range. they all have to be controlled by remote control. host: what is on these military drones? what do people mean when they say payload? guest: what kind of equipment

are they carrying? we are talking about the military, they call them censors but they are cameras. they can take full motion video. they have infrared cameras so they can see at night. sensorse classified that have not been made public. they can listen. they can do all sorts of pretty amazing things from a military standpoint. you also have some military drones that can be armed. it could be missiles or munitions. that is used on the battlefield. host: what is the reaction to your story? guest: the commercial industry rapidly was not thrilled. they thought we were focusing too much on risks and not enough on the rewards. we quoted theme, number of people. they are concerned about this lack of rules and the lack of

rules in the sky. -- a collision would set things back. that there are problems that need to be resolved. the faa has to step in. craigyou can follow whitlock's reporting. him there.low he is a writer >> on the next "washington journal" edward klein talks about blood feud. on what economists will be looking at in the jobs report. and the ongoing negotiations in a trade agreement between the u.s. and the european union. a deal that would create a

market of 800 million people. we will be joined by the editor of the "national journal". discussing the new design and its recent addition on the -- edition on the residential race. seven a.m. on c-span. iraq's ambassador to the u.s. says they need more military assistance. in a date on the role of the group isys in syria. isis in syria. mr. sterling.r i coached the clippers and the year 2000. he invited me to his daughter's wedding. i had no idea exactly what was going on but i also because of my association i know alison behler and i know what he was complaining about. i was confused not knowing

mr.tly which set of facts sterling stood behind. and then when his words came out it was obvious and shocking. disgusting,ing -- all those things wrapped in one but the surprise of it to find that type of sentiment in someone who relies on black americans for so much of his success and public profile, it was amazing. i could not believe that someone could have that much bigotry inside and think that it was ok. >> july 4 on c-span. a look at racism in sports after 11 a.m. eastern. exploring the red planet with mars probe engineers and senior nasa officials getting at 3:40 p.m. and later at 8:30 p.m. eastern, discussions on gun rights and the personal recovery of former arizona congresswoman

gabrielle giffords. iraq's ambassador to the u.s. says his country needs more american military assistance. faily said if there is no additional support from the u.s. direct -- iraq would accept health from iran and russia. this is a little more than an hour. >> good morning. i want to thank you for joining us for this important discussion of the future of the iraq and the continuing conflict that you are witnessing with the islamic state of iraq.

know isys has been advancing through most of -- most of western iraq including mosul.pture of muzzle -- declared a new islamic state and ushering in a new era of international jihad. leaders asing their liph of the newca state. this puts melekeok and her intense pressure to form a new government as soon as possible. hopefully that will include representation from the sunnis and the kurds in order to give the government additional

credibility in its fight against isys -- isis. by the discussion to form a new government as well as the struggle against isis. julytor has served since 2013. prior to this he served as iraq's ambassador to to japan from 2010-2013. ambassador faily lived in the united kingdom for 20 years working in the information technology sector. we have a common background. and serving in senior management positions for two major transnational companies. thank you again for joining us today. let me remind everyone that the ambassador has asked to speak briefly for 10 minutes in order

to allow the opportunity for you to ask as many questions as possible. he will have to leave at 11:30 a.m. so i would appreciate it if we can remain seated while the ambassador leaves. welcome. [applause] >> good morning, everybody. first of all, thank you very unity to talk at this place.gious as my country is coming back a focal point in d.c.

as you mentioned in the ntroduction, the people -- the iraqi people are under direct are lt by people who committed to terrorism. respect any viable rule of law and targets anybody brothers many muslims and sisters who does not swear to their extremist views. there was another level in which sis declared themselves as the only rule in iraq which provides the region and the globe. sist minister nderstand that can't be solved military but can only be stopped and economicalal reforms.

have stated ister that they are committed to building a national unity that embraces and empowers all seg segments of the society regardless of religious ethnicity and backgrounds. i'll talk about three primary topics. formation of the government, second is security ssues and third is a support from the united states and elationship with the united states. the prime minister has rejected of forming a governme overnment -- there has been a lot of call for us to have a salvation government and other of government. establishing a government process he political would undercut votes cast by further of iraqis and

destabilize the country. it would promote the same thing trying to s perpetrate. iraq's uld undermine democracy, and erode confidence and e elected governments shouldmessage grievances be resolved with bullets and not ballots. the process of forming a new is underway ich must not be derailed by the terrorist gains otherwise t means nothing and violence means everything. the newly elected parliament met earlier today will start the formation of the iraq is working to uild the institutions of government that can serve all of the people. underway and s

must not be undermined. are hile the iraqi people under an immediate and direct threat and immediate and direct the terrorist and the terrorist threat must be defeated. on the national -- on the aspects, the national security team are working to the current threat to iraq and its people. we need united states assistance to turn the tide. counter terrorist experts support our armed forces. however, the institutions on the rapidly is ter developing devote -- the situation on the developing rapidly.

terrorists are the common enemy of the iraqi people, our eighbors and our american allies. and we must work in common must work commonly to that. >> therefore we believe that immediate and increased military targeted aircluded strikes are crucial to defeat threat.owing time is not on our side. our neighbor's side side.ited states further delay benefits only the terrorists. our relationship with the have chosen we united states as our partner of choice. our relationship is governed by the strategic agreement which we have with any other country. naturally we have always sought ositive relations with other

countries as well. decline ficult for us from any other country who shares our perceived danger. hey have offered us to provide military assistance. e have always tried to resist that however the situation on the ground may push us to from from any our t neighbor. example is that iraq has purchased a number of aircraft from russia. buy irst choice was to american made f-sixteens but the jetsss of delivering those do not meet the immediate threat we face. rest assured, we will never choose to replace the the ership we have with united states with any other country. my government has purchased more

$10 billion worth of ecessary military equipment from the united states. more.e are planning to buy our countries are forever tie because of the lives we lost and the treasures e spent in both countries for the last decade and our common fight against terrorism. finally, i cannot under score the fact enough that people of being threatened and ntimidated and killed by terrorists that are only committed to maming as many nnocent people as possible regardless of their religion, an icity, identity and in effort to advance the terrorist goals. a threat to st iraq. this threatens the entire region not beyond. things, it will rise

if the situation isn't resolved. consolidate the gains further, isis will have a haven in the heart of the middle east spanning western from which they can train fighters and launch eattacks against people and beyond. opportunity the and i'll look forward to your questions. applause] very much, ambassador. let me start the discussion. you started your talk by mphasizing that the problem cannot be solved military but i cannot help but notice most of speech has been devoted to talking about military issues. you have not given us a clear political process

is envisioned in the country to crisis. out of this today many people fear the state, not raq as a also ecause of isis but because of the the declared or intention to separate from the iraqi state. e are talking about the situation in which the very concept of iraq as we know it be in danger. moree you can enlighten us about this and what political would do you see that onvince all the sides, the sunnis and kurds and shiites that their future lies in a unified iraq. first of all, when i talked support, the tary immediate one which we need to terrain on the ground

needs to be changed effectively fast. we need to have a political process alongside the military development. however, the military support was from the united states which agreement trategic which talks about the integrity and protection of the democratic of iraq and that's why i emphasized it. iraq is tion in developing rapidly. when i talk about the integrity risk i do e being at mean that. a q has never faced such challenge for over -- since its foundation of the state in the 19 twenties. the reason is that the -- there you number of you a -- as mentioned there are a number of layers behind that. is social cohesion and the other is the aftermath of its impact on d the society. it destroyed the middle class

the social fabric of the society and most different it gave segments of the society a ifferent vision to what it means to be an iraqi. the kurds consider themselves a class or third class. he sunnis said they were marginalized and so on. over the last ten years the process has tried to bring and bridge those narratives those into a cohesive effective government. and we have challenged that. of the mentation political processes in iraq are all challenges and all that for people to know. nobody's denying that. a ever, what we face now is different level all together does not believe in any social cohesion and the

does not expect other to but submit to it. key threat. grown.t is not home it's transnational which means t it will have certainly an impact if not already on the region and the globe. this is where we are coming from. and the united states others can help. iraqis have their own domestic yes.enges back home, the process is not smooth of we step forward and two step forwards, we do that and a new natural for democracy. it will take time. the balance is the part of the agreement then i'm okay with that. an immediate ave

thre the region n damage and the globe. this is what we are talking about now. issue of the the kurds have their talk ons and the sunnis about marginalization, these be resolved in due time provided everybody will political process. having such society effect on a society and elections taking place it's sign that people want freedom and democracy. the threat we face are immediate to us and the region and this is what has to be

rather than today the other political issues which will take significant time. disregarding it b. make things clear because isis has having happened within an environment felt marginalized and traded and not necessarily isis of manipulating power. isisiraq see the defeat of as an necessary first step efore a political process is established or do you see it -- do you see the two working together? >> the political parties are more or less acknowledging or back on their lack of evelopment or the challenges they face and services. on they're effecting back that. we need have to a political military ongside the

process. however, the issue is not that they are on trucks. manageable. the issue is that the opposition which was the government we don't have that capability. have challenges in our own that we which meant have to modernize the people. we don't allenges and have air supremacy. cannot cope with the organization. the same game on their rules on that situation. they go in residential areas. do we do? areas? ard those there has been talk about a town which we had issues last few days. e were able to clear up the university. our forces have reluctantsy

because of booby traps and other things which means that houses and places of and others are booby trapped and it will more or less anyone who gets near there. of type of culture destruction we cannot match. that as a state we cannot match that. challenges. we need technology and capabilities and better intelligence gathering and so on. we talked about the air supremacy. take priority to address the immediate threat now but the political process has to alongside it. to mature? yes. would they do? change a ime to culture it does take time. do we ignore everything because process i think it's possible as a government other regions. >> let me ask you a question

be unfair to answer from an ambassador standpoint. process that you are talking about if it becomes and i'm saying if, that person will stand in the way of unity ical or a national government. scenario where would you still respect the elections the party or some coalition would agree on a different prime minister and not different -- not of course but ing there is elections in the interest of preserving the iraqi state, would you a scenario or is the question of prime minister's --e something that >> no, to be honest i'm not aware of any agreement who be the next prime minister.

about the ot talked naming yet because they want to wait until the parliament is in candidacy from the peaker, the presidency and the nation. will he get the votes? 700,000 votes because he has 300 on parliament. it's likely he can become prime minister. it is certain? no. that's democracy. we'll have to wait for the and take share. him? ere a rob with i would say. the challenges we have are not of the personnel it's fundamental issues. the political class they are new democracy and governing and they need time and they are learn and i time to would say that the issue should personalized.

it's an easier solution to blame somebody for it and say it was problem. one out.the easiest i would say even unachievable in of in a society that person should not have a chance putting his name forward. i think we need to go through process. it may result in the prime not.ter becoming or it may we leave that to the democratic rocess and i would say that personalizing it will not benefit anybody. the easy to blame and way out and i think that's unrealistic and unfair. more question and then we'll open it up. iraqi ent yesterday, the parliament met yesterday to irst agree on a speaker which did not happen. later on i would imagine

to iament will also need agree on a president for the republic. what we are seeing from iraq rds to withdraw from as a state do you still envision that parliament would agree on, kurdish president and would they go along with that even with what many believe intention to withdraw from the iraqi state and declared back to what t go they used to be before the crisis? when we agreed as iraqis on the constitution, that the kurds. if i remember -- if my memory around e right, it was 95% of the kurds saying we agree to this constitution. a new constitution is talked about, then the current

mean that the kurds will play a significant political role and that the have agreed for the and dency to be occurred for the speaker to be a sunni arab. that's still on going. yesterday or this morning ctually there were talks supposed to agree on a person sunni-arab blocks and they disagreed at the last moment. have saidther parties or eachallow each block entity to select that person. if they do not they say we have for the presidency or 2 or 3 or the premiership or speaker. it's a halfway solution. that's on going. he kurds have already made it

public before and president of federal kurdish -- the .resident has said t's still in the constitution until a new social contract is defined we expect the kurds to role as a positive play haer in the development of the political process and in the iraq.ty of that's an obligation on every iraq who believes in a constitution and believes in a political process. that's still on going. can they get their own state? that up to time. it has its own challenges. geopolitical as well as other type of challenges. iraqis? nd as we'll leave that.

not, then we if displplay their o respected role. >> let's open it up. many questions and many people indulging. short keep your questions and identify yourself and ask question, please. expert in the russian language internet. hat is the ultimate objective of isis? are they looking to take baghdad? concern?n immediate there. he back over i could.estions if the first is, there's been a lot negative press in the

united states on the russian fighter jets sent to iraq. i'd like it if you could please to my that deal which understanding was made back in question, e second many in the united states has said this is fundamentally an solved at has to be regionally and not just within iraq. do with thegoing to regional partners that we have as h include states such ran, saudi arabia, the gulf monarchies who according to the to general pet temporaryious said some of these little bit of a terrorism. -- how do we ave regional cooperation out

of that mix? >> okay. yes, please. the question is, do you think compare the to situation together with the army ence that the french or any other western army is not solve your e to problems? this set of we take questions, please. and others are a gists.ational anybody who is different to them elieves in their strict understanding of islam. they are the way, onsidered they are too on the fringes and they are the corepresentative of islam.

that sense, baghdad or the whole globe is their objective. -- to be honest i think even outside the globe think they have to go above that. they think they are represented by god and nobody else. fortunately they cannot cokheuft them.others or with as to the question regarding russia we have already asked again and again the to provide us with apache helicopters and that was some time ago. it was stuck in the congress. we, as a state, we're stuck between the white house and the congress and who makes the and what are the on.promises and so we never wanted to be part this ave u.s. discourse as to the

provision of weapons to iraq. owever, unfortunately that was the result. what we see now is one of the to rmath of the responses iraq.ituation of we need immediate help and if can't provide us with capabilities you do it and we'll all the legal and things.gistical nfortunately that was not adhered to or was not received positively until the situation in the last few weeks. all lost that e opportunity. there were no l

collateral damage and it was bad guys are. the as far as the russian -- the from russia, as i said before and as public as ossible, as vocal as possible saying that we don't have choices. the ground are pushing and telling us to choose. we are aware that there are rocesses within the united states institutions for approval and there are a lot of stakeholders who have to approve, yes. yes, we respect that. to we also accept the other respect our own choices. the choice is primary from need rather than from the desire. e have a long list of requirements and i can assure you nobody would want to go it a fighter plains if you can get the best. and others oneens

us. but they will not help >> regional solutions. >> we know for a fact and we've saying it for a while we've been the victims of terrorism we the last ten years and know the majority of those terrorists are not from iraq. until recently none were iraqis recently. they were primary from arabs and arabs. with the situation in syria it became a global phenomena. the jihadists have a tourism promote which they destination. victim of that. foreigners from chechnya and others and

been states there have cases where they got people efore they went to syria and iraq of the we know that this is a global phenomena and requires we have solution and said to our neighbors no one is immune from it. repeat that. no one is in our region, not turkey, saudi arabia is immune from it. this is a global disease and we found a treatment. >> please. you mentioned that if iraq get the support that needs from the united states reachoing to be forced to out to other partners such as of of the what sort additional support might iraq it battles itsas insurgency. >> okay. the woman in the

middle. >> hi. jennifer from the middle east institute. isis is primarily a transnational threat but they they're reported -- eportedly working with ex bathists. would you consider including hese officials in any process.iatio reconciliation >> hi. actually does come in and take over, would they be the military equipment that now exists in neighboring countries? as far as i know isis are are very destructive. any capability they have they'll highest level of

destruction. whatever capability they have, chemical, whether it's -- they talked about actual other weapons they have they'll utilize elsewhere. to them it's considered as a up.rd blowing themselves in essence it's a danger and any they have that has to taken.ously as far as the purchase from ran, we are aware that international norms and rules purchases or dealing with iran in the military way and we have not. iranians have the threat hemselves next to their neighbor and specifically the rovince in iraq and to the iranians they consider them as

of the national security. and we understand that. we also understand as much as by mecca is a part of ational security of every muslim. and the shrines are considered that as well. said that we do acquire any r some iranian assistance if we have he choice of the united states or any other. as far as most of the is on their now expeed 80-sevens in dealing with isis and others and we have welcomed it. n a sense we are aware of international norms and we do not want to break or breech any convention or any type of the united nations iran, but at nst he same time any areas of corporation we can do with them and we cannot get elsewhere we

both o that because we face a common threat. and there neighbors are borders between us and we common thread. >> any reconciliation process involved. change there has been dramatic discussion inside inside the political entities as to who we who do we not. the common conclusion that has ome up -- this is still developing by the way. entity will oreign not be -- we cannot accept them discourse. owever, home grown resistance -- i'm talking about ideology we're accepting that we can have that discussion with those who say we disagree

the government or disagree with whom ever we're okay with not as long as they have used weapons against the state of not killed iraqis innocently. those not involved in the bloodshed we'll have the discussion with them. are, i'm afraid we cannot accept that and i think that as well. at f i may interject also this point. a lot of people are concerned thatthis is the first time n organization like radical terrorist organization has control over such territory. in afghanistan this has not happened where an organization ike this has this swap of territory across syria and iraq. you that this re is a temporary situation and ablethe iraqi army will be to gain control of the territory are are to we expect a long term

struggle between the army and such an organization? we think that the support that we had externally plus the international international -- and others we're looking into a prolonged process. we had difficult 2s controlling syria.rder with until we do that we cannot contain it. already have a supply line across the other side. their safe have hae havens across the other side. as one to look at both theatre. we are looking at that and until border, then e unfortunately this will be a long process. -- just ot be a small kicking them out of provinces.wns or

iraq -- the americans had challenges themselves at the this is a long process and we had been saying support need such immediately. whoever is committing has to as a long process to be able to sustain and defeat and resolve the core issues which is to do with their inside iraq. i think going back to the there was talked -- a question. in the different geopolitics of it and the ichness and with all due respect, iraq is considered as important country in relation to oil and in relation to culture and in relation to history. in a way these are all a role in ch play

looking at iraq not issue. an internal we ourself does not look at it issue inernal domestic iraq. we have an international perspective we need to provide a narrative to the world that this place cannot be occupied or destroyed. bearing in mind another issue they have controlled and they've churches.christian they've destroyed cemeteries and on in addition to heritage sites. for them they do not believe in the history. is an important part. >> you've talked about borders, g the ambassador. do you view this as a military

bordersn to control the or do you view this as a or tical process that might that must include regional countries as well. historically, even -- times and before, the reliance e always had on local tribes and others to support the state. well.as historical as because the vastness of society and so on. the er, until we control border we need a military objective until we have a -- we preempt rather than situations. then unfortunately this bleeding we know fore of the a fact we have to work on local tribes. local to work on the political entities and the standards. entice them into a political process and working with the

government but at the same time need to have a strong military capability. a >> all right. l thank you very much. ou were talking about the funding. it's well reported they sell oil to the assad rejim. iraqire anything that the government can do in the funding contradiction a there and what's the current level of discussion between your two governments, thank you. in iraq -- tion sorry. >> let's take a couple more questions. yes, please. can you explain what your iews are on the future implications on oil both iraqi

kurdish. > my question and it's kind of been brought up already is i want to bring up the topic of the kurds. if the kurds do go and declare independence you mentioned that they still at the moment should constitutional framework they agreed upon. question is whether would you find that the eye kraeubg state militarily with an independent kurdish state to fight the terrorist that exist in iraq or is hat kind of cooperation not really something that an iraqi ever agree to. >> currently the majority if not alled kurdish government with the rest of iraq

buffers are controlled by i and the kurds know more than anybody else they're not immuned from it. as a central government have always said work more so with ur own citizens and our own kurdish communities. e talked about future states and i think we'll leave that to the future discussion to see how it manifested it. will be a chance of a kurdish state during the

region. i think the kurdish leadership knows it. we're going back to the this is what we are sticking to. their participation in the assi a sign that they have to work in the framework of state. i they thrive on anomalies and hey thrive -- they do think outside the box. whether it's a refinery or so on that will have the detriment on the region. are transnational which means that they do not think to the primary job is provide services to the local people, no, that's not their objective. objective is to create in

they'll thrive on and say, well, you see, we sunnis.about we are the champions of the sunnis and we'll do that. narrative.r ultimate even yesterday more destruction to this shia shrine to bring civil war in iraq. that is the ultimate objective. in that sense, yes, we will work with syria, with others to try to stifle their capabilities and financial capabilities so they will ultimately be defeated. and? -- you're in next question?

>> on assad and isis. >> contradictions and anomalies exist within iraq and the region. for us, the threat we have is in iraq. we know we cannot resolve the situation in syria. but at the same time, if we can work with the syrian government to control our side of the border and to help us in the fight against isil, we will do that, because we have a common threat. whether we have a relationship beyond that, that will be up to others to convince us of that relationship. >> ok, next one. lees, sir. sir.ease, >> mr. ambassador, you have repeatedly mentioned the need for unity and inclusion on the new iraqi government. all that being said, do you have any comments on the recent amnesty international reports

suggesting dozens of revenge killing of sunni muslims at the hand of government forces? >> ok. yes, sir. am a christian dough from the institute for foreign affairs. prime minister maliki has accused saudi arabia of not only financial support, but actual weapons support. i just wonder what kind of evidence exists and why there is not more condemnation internationally. >> yes. the woman with the glasses. i, thank you, ambassador. i just wanted to touch on something that was shared on the question about the areas that are being captured and if they are already marginalized. i have been reading reports that

the first goal of isis is to isil is to capture established social services, benefits for the poor and things like that. i wonder if there is anyone on the ground to mites regard isis favorably because of these services? in the captured areas, is it always violent? or is there a sense in some areas that captured -- illegitimately, of course, but it is favorable because some of these areas were already marginalized because of the lack of these services? >> let's take one more question please. yes? >> michael crowley with time. there were reports that mortars landed very near the shrine in samarra. can you talk about the situation there, the threat to the shrine, how close that is, how well defended it may be, and your concerns about it? >> the question of samarra was

that they had control of the place. it wasn't. we cleansed all of samarra and have moved to tikrit. the used mortar. they used mortar. some people were killed. that is the situation. outside of the human rights .ecord is concerned, yes we are immediately concerned terrorist situation. minorities of any type will be the first victims. we have brought out the kurdish government to help secure some of their minorities, whether they are talking about

shia or others, to protect them. in the current violence in iraq, the minorities would be the first victims. unfortunately that is the case elsewhere as well. that is why we have been trying to say, we need to control that and we need to focus on the minorities. most of the heavy fights were in areas where minorities were. i take your point. reports ofbeen prisoners executed. we are looking into that situation. i think the situation is much more complicated and i have aware, unfortunately -- people were left in a very bad situation. these situation on the ground as

much more complicated than the >> narrative of sunni and shia. talk about the sunnis, are you talking about the kurds or not? are you talking about the ministers? the arabs? what is marginalization? i would say, please look beyond narrative of sunni/shia. it is a bit more complicated. nice question there. i would say that we know for fact saudi arabia did not pull their weight and protecting our border. fact we have worked to minimize the others going in.

and we have said to saudi arabia, we will work with you. we will walk -- we will work with iran. we will work with all of the region to bring some disability to the sectarian narrative. these issues in the region will not help anybody. no one is immune from it. neither jordan nor saudi arabia nor others. and we have been saying to them, please, pull your weight so we can all work together. this is where the prime minister was coming from. iraq countries bordering can control their part of the border and reduce the flow of the smuggling of weapons, etc., into iraq. >> would you include jordan. -- jordan? >> let's speak about jordan. the risk we have -- we have found this to be