specifically concerning our children and the private rehoming. they are such serious problems. they are taking place right now, right here in our communities and in our country all across every state, and obviously to our children. so i want to also thank the many groups and the many individuals who contributed their experience and their expertise to this hearing. in particular, i want to thank the north carolina coalition against sexual assault, the on eagles wings ministry in charlotte, salvation army in raleigh, st. joseph's school in brooklyn, new york, and the alliance to end slavery and trafficking. and the victims, obviously, the victims of both trafficking and rehoming that have been interviewed by my staff. this is, these are serious issues. i do think there are, that numerous examples of what our states are doing to combat these issues and to work best within

our current agencies to help not only the parents, but obviously the victims and then the coordination between the schools, the health care professionals and our law enforcement, to bring to justice the individuals who are committing these trafficking acts, then to really treat the young people who are being trafficked as victims and not criminals. this hearing will remain open for ten business days after today for any other senators to submit questions to you, to submit statements for the record. once again, i appreciate everybody's time and attention to this very important issue. this meeting is adjourned.

>> more from the national governors association summer meeting in nashville this afternoon, with a discussion on strategies for helping veterans find employment. andrnors of missouri michigan believed that discussion. they served as the chair and vice chair of the nga homeland security and public safety committee. we will have that live at 3:45 eastern, about an hour from now. to afghanistan and secretary john kerry's visit there, the headline in the "new ink times" -- kerry afghanistan seeks deal to ease vote crisis. the secretary of state is going between the top two presidential contenders in the afghan runoff election, trying to come to an agreement on how to audit the recent elections and prevent the

first of may credit transfer of power from collapsing. both the former foreign minister and former finance minister are claiming victory. mr. abdulla won the first round of elections. asof this taking place aclear talks with iran critical juncture. secretary kerry is expected to be involved in those talks as well. with currentuch events using any phone, anytime with c-span radio on audio now. call 20 2-66-8888. every weekday, listen to a recap of the day's events at 5:00 p.m. eastern on "washington today." hear audio of the sunday public affairs programs beginning sunday at noon eastern. 202-266-8888. long-distance or phone charges

may apply. >> next, the new york city police commissioner talks about his experience in prison and his views on the criminal justice system. this is about an hour. studio is us from our the former new york city police commissioner, former nominee to be the head of the department of homeland security. what happened? nomination, iy withdrew my name for consideration and advised president bush and his administration that i had hired an illegal immigrant as a nanny and failed to pay payroll tax. i went through a five-year investigation.

in november of 2009 i pled guilty to eight felonies, most of which were related to my children's nanny. i was sentenced to 48 months in the federal prison and i spent three years and 11 days in a minimal security federal prison camp in maryland. host: what was that experience like for you? guest: it is like -- it is the same as it is for anyone else that has been in jail over prison. -- or prison. the deprivation of freedom is more profound than anyone knows, especially for someone who has been a law-abiding citizen, someone in my position who has been a law-enforcement officer for -- i had a 30, 35-year

pretty much impeccable career up until that point. then, to be sent to prison, to have your freedom taken from you, to lose your civil and constitutional rights. to lose your children, pretty much for any period of time, is more profound than you could imagine. it was extremely difficult. it was difficult then. it is probably equally as difficult today as it was then with the collateral consequence of the felony conviction, and it is something that no one wants to go through. no one. host: commissioner kerik, what are some of those collateral consequences that you talk about? guest: well i think -- first and foremost, i do not think the general public, and even congress, who makes these laws,

i do not think they understand the consequence of a conviction, of a felony conviction and what it does to an individual, their families, their children. you know, we live in a world where we promote or say that america is the land of second chances. if you are convicted of a felony, regardless of what that felony is, there is pretty much no second chance. you are a convicted felon for the rest of your natural life. i was with men in prison -- very young men that were first-time, nonviolent, low-level drug offenders, they were sentenced to 10 years. 15 years for five grams of cocaine in a conspiracy. if they live to be 120 and never

have another problem as long as they live, they will be a convicted felon and will suffer the loss of civil and constitutional rights, the loss of the right to bear arms. they will have difficulties, probably a 70% to 80% of faculty -- difficulty in retaining a real job. they will not be able to rent apartments. they will not be able to get educational assistance. recently, the american bar association and the national association of criminal defense lawyers put together a three-year study on collateral consequences throughout the united states for a convicted felon, and i think the total number in all was about 45,000 different collateral consequences.

don't get me wrong, i need people to understand there are people that belong in prison. there are people that belong there a long time. some may belong there for life. but we put people in prison today, many of which did not need to go to prison, number one, to learn their lesson. they could have been punished by some alternative sentence or alternative means, be it home confinement, house arrest, a community service, a fine, a severe penalty, but we send them to prison. once we send them to prison and they come home, the collateral consequence of their imprisonment and their condition -- conviction will last forever and i do not think anyone understands that. host: did you ever have these

thoughts when you are new york police commissioner or head of the department of corrections? guest: no. you know, what happens as a law-enforcement official or a commissioner, you have a job. your job is to take bad guys off the street and you do not think about what will happen to them in the long run. don't get me wrong, i have put people in prison for a long time, some for life, but these were bad people. they tried to kill me, shoot my partners, but then i went to prison and met people that were sent to 10 or 15 years because there were -- they were commercial fishers who had caught too many fish.

i met young men trying to buy their first home who enhanced their income on a mortgage application. i never realized, never even thought about those types of circumstances. we have evolved into a society where we now take a number of the regulatory issues and turn them into crimes, turn that conduct into criminal conduct, and i'm not saying these people should not be held accountable for their actions, but a commercial fisher that catches too many fish, fine him, penalize him some way, but to make him a convicted felon, to take his license away -- i was with the man that had been fishing since he was 17, 18 years old. he was now 55. he owned his own business for the last 40 years.

he lost his business. he lost his life. he lost his license. his family was on public assistance because he caught too many fish. fine him. you turned him into a convicted felon. the guy's in the prime years of his life. he now can't work. cannot get a job. has no business. cannot pay taxes. i do not see that as just. there is a way to address those issues without turning these people into felons and having them and the economy, most importantly the economy, suffer eternally. i do not get it. host: what would you like to see done -- pardon me -- and at what level of government?

guest: first and foremost the mandatory minimums in the guidelines have to be addressed. either repealed or overhauled completely. i think -- i am not the only one saying this. the attorney general himself has said it. former attorney general's have said. it is not a democratic or republican issue. this is coming from both sides of the house, where, you know, the legal profession is basically saying these things have to be addressed -- the punishments are too severe, the sentences are too long. they are destroying families. they are crippling our economy. the mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines -- i think they have to be addressed. i think we also have to look at alternatives for incarceration.

as i said earlier, home confinement and house arrest, fines and penalties, community service, we put a number of professionals in prison that could be serving their community in ways that we really need it. you have doctors that have been arrested and charged with -- or convicted of some kind of financial crime relating to either insurance or taxes, but overall they are phenomenal doctors. put them in communities where they are needed. you have professors and teachers -- we have people with phd's and master's degrees that could be teaching at community colleges for nothing. give them 15 hours a week, 20 hours a week, make them go teaching a community college for nothing.

we have kids in these communities that really need an education and they do not have the money to get it. have people teach them. there are a number of things you can do alternatively to punish people without putting them in prison. the cost of incarceration runs about $28,000 a year to house a federal inmate, but the reality if that the guy is making $150,000 a year and you stick him in prison for three years because he caught too many fish, it is a cost to you, the taxpayer, of about $600,000 for his stint in prison. why not fine him? fine him 150,000. suspend him. to make him a convicted felon

and lose his contribution to society forever, i think it is absurd. host: 202 is the area code for all numbers and we have set aside our last number four former inmates. we would like to hear from you. let's hear from our callers. commissioner kerik, from columbus, georgia, on our let's hear from our callers. commissioner kerik, from columbus, georgia, on our democrats line. caller: i am calling because i feel like once the person is put into prison, and they do their time, they are convicted the rest of their life for their crimes. i feel like that is double jeopardy. they should be able to get a job and get back into society and be able to work and take care of their families. once they do their time, they are still a convicted felon the rest of their life and it is hard for them to get a job.

i feel like what you're saying is true. host: thank you. let's get a response. guest: there is -- i agree totally with what you just said. here is the problem. you never finish paying your debt to society. we, as american people, the press, congress, the people that make these laws, they will stand before an audience and talk about how a person has to be held accountable and pay their debt to society. nce and talk about how a person has to be held accountable and pay their debt to society. at what point does that that --debt end? it does not. you pay that debt for the rest of your life. there is no time where you say you have now been made whole, you have done your prison time, your probation time, you

might've gone beyond that and are now a model citizen, we will now expunge your record. we will give you back your life. we will give you back your constitutional and civil rights. that does not happen. there is no -- it does not happen. the problem is you pay that debt forever, and that is not just. the punishment is supposed to fit the crime, and i am confident this is not what our founding fathers wanted when the constitution -- the personal and professional annihilation of someone that made a mistake, and i have to agree with her. bob, winchester, california. republican line. go ahead. is right on.guest i was a priest -- a prison minister and a priest for 15 --rs, and i hope set up the

i cannot think of it anymore -- the freedom fund. about. what it is prisons are now a cottage industry. they are built a company that bids on the prisoners, and then they stuff full of prisoners. is 2.7% of the world's 25% ofion, and we have the world's prisoners. your guest is so right on. see, it is about getting them into the system. once a young man gets into the system, and unless you are smart, like i was, i saved my son -- you cannot get them out.

-- for forgiving this this for myforgive son. he was one of the first 17 that landed in afghanistan. president clinton gave me , but your guest is so right -- they want you to be there. they want you to get in prison. man, they getng caught, they get in the system, and there is no way out. bob. let's get a response, let's hear from bernard kerik. guest: peter, here is the thing -- two issues. one, it is an $80 billion a year industry, so there are a lot of lobbyists out there. oute is a lot of industry

there that wants as many people in prison as physically possible , but i agree with your caller on this one point. that is these young men and ,omen that come into the system you are creating, in my opinion -- you are creating an enormous amount of recidivism where they will come back into prison and here is why. you take those young men that i was talking about earlier -- 19 aars old, gets arrested for conspiracy, five grams of cocaine, you sentence him, 10 years of prison. he does 8.5. , heng that 8.5-year period gets no life improvement skills. he is physically in a prison. foron is a training ground commonality -- you learn how to lie, cheat, steal, manipulate,

gamble, and flight. your disagreements -- flight. .- fight you disagreements are usually in extreme verbal confrontations or physical confrontations. so, that is your education in prison, and then we let them out to go back into society. they cannot get a job. they cannot get public assistance for education. they cannot find an apartment. they cannot get a place to live unless they have somebody on the outside that is going to take care of them. at what point do they basically give up? at some point they give up and they have to revert to crime or they have to go do something stupid to take care of themselves or take care of their families, and that puts them right back into the system. they need in education -- a real education, and they need real programs. we put tons of people in prison

today for addiction. people that aren't it did to -- people that are addicted to drugs need treatment. they do not need prison. they need treatment. we put mentally ill in prison. they belong in treatment centers. they need to be taken care of by clinicians, not sitting in a jail cell, a prison cell. all of this stuff leads to enhanced recidivism, and the numbers continue to turn over. one last thing on your caller's description, i think we are about 5% of the world's population, but we are 25% of -- we hold 25%ns of the world prisoners. how is that possible? how is it possible we have more prisoners than russia or china?

the insanity of the system is unsustainable and it has to change. the congress, our legislatures have to address it at some point. it will cripple our society. it will cripple our economy. host: bernard kerik this is a tweet that we have gotten, and -- it is funny how opinions change when the shoe is on the other foot. guest: that is right. that is exactly right. basically, it is an education. it is an education. here is the issue. one of the reasons i'm talking i you, one of the reasons testified before the congress, one of the reasons i talk about this constantly is because the general public does not understand the damage that the system does. if you have not experienced it firsthand, if you have not been there, if you have not dealt

with it through some personal discourse -- a family member, friend, or otherwise, you have no idea, and the reason i know that is because i was in the system. ran two the largest -- i two the largest law enforcement agencies in the country, and i did not know half of what i know today than. so, you are right. or theyan criticize, can agree, but the bottom line is i have now seen the system. " the -- i have now seen the circle, and i think a system is broken. we have flaws and failures that are crippling society, crippling the economy, devastating families, and crucifying children. we have to do something about it. host: the prison policy initiative group put out this chart -- 2 million people are

currently locked up on a day-to-day basis in the u.s.. state prisons contain the most. here are federal prisons. local . group also policy says about 12 million people a year siphon through the u.s. prison system. calvin. newark, delaware. independent line. go ahead. .aller: good morning, mr. kerik i want to first thank you for coming on and sharing your story and trying to make a change. i want to say that. i am from new york. i want to say thank you for that. -- imment is there are read somewhere where they spend about $40,000 per inmate -- either the taxpayers, the government, or both, and as for

children in the education system, it is only 8000. now, it seems like there is an incentive for these prisons to keep being built when it is paying $40,000 per inmate. that is a lot of money per inmate and it gives them incentive to keep locking up more and more people. that is my first comment. my second comment -- i was diagnosed with a mental illness. ever since being diagnosed with a mental illness, i have had to do with the criminal justice system, and since having it, i have dealt with several charges because of the mental illness. to speak on that, i believe that drug users need treatment, people with mental illness need treatment, not jail, like you said. for having me. host: -- thank you for having me. host: thank you, calvin.

bernard kerik. guest: i understand what he is saying. back to the financial issue, the economic issue, you run -- depending where you are at, and depending on the system, you could say that an inmate costs $100,000 a year depending on where they are being held. the bottom line is state government across the country, it cannot sustain these costs. that is why you see a lot of state governments across the united states that are looking at alternatives to incarceration. they are looking at criminal justice reform. they are looking at reducing mandatory minimums. they are looking at the overall criminal justice systems in an intent to reduce bed space, prison population, and i have to give credit to the state of

, some ofvernor perry -- other states out west right on time states -- crime states that are really addressing criminal justice reform. for whatever reason, a lot of this has to do with economics. you cannot sustain these budgets. you only have so much money in the budget and once you run out of money, no one is coming to your aid, so you have to do something about it. in the federal system -- in 1980, there were 25,000 prisoners in the united states federal system. it is 216,000, i think it is 218,000. not one year since 1980 has there been a reduction in the bed space. it has increased every year

right up to this year. the federal government prints money. they keep putting money into it, and at some point the american people have to realize it is an economic cost that is written in them, therdening american taxpayer, and i do not see this being sustained. i think at some point in time it has to be addressed. i give the attorney general and in tryingent credit to do something about it. i just hope the members of congress will get on board, cut across partyion, lines, and do what has to be done. right now you have senator booker from the state of new jersey, rand paul, and a number of others that are truly looking at criminal justice and prison reform.

i hope others jump on board and do it needs to be done to get the laws changed. 9:00 a.m. this morning, c-span will be covering the hearing by the house judiciary over-criminalization task force live on c-span three today and it is about the need for criminal code reform and the over federal is a in federal criminal law. 9:00 a.m., c-span3. next is mark from fort lauderdale, florida calling in. hi, mark. caller: hi, how are you doing? host: good. caller: thank you for c-span and mr. kerik for bringing this to the front. i called and the inmate -- called in on the inmate line because i served some time myself. you had a tweet that stole my thunder -- the shoe is on the

other foot. mr. kerik, as you are climbing the ladder, and even when you reached the top of the food chain, you always thought that permitted -- prisoners and criminals as earth more time, that they were getting off to easy -- deserved more time, and they were getting off too easy, and now i like to see that you see how rough things can be for people that fall into the system. when i was in the bureau of prisons, i met some fallen politicians, some judges, and they all say the same thing, if only i knew then what i knew now. host: why were you in prison? --ler: bank fraud and host: bank fraud. host: were you guilty? caller: i thought i was not, but the judge told me i was.

host: thank you. bernard kerik. guest: if someone told me before you willrison that meet great men, great fathers, great businessman, good professionals, doctors, lawyers, that are really good people, honestly, i would , thataughed -- whatever are really good people, honestly, i would have laughed. at all.not have agreed i have to say i went to prison. i was house with lawyers. i was housed with doctors. i was housed with other professionals that make mistakes , and i want to go back to your caller. when you asked him was he guilty, he did not think he was, the judge thought he was. there are people in prison today that had no criminal intent.

evenw men that did not know they did anything wrong. the days of criminal intent are pretty much over. toyou not have to intend commit a crime in the federal system, and you can wind up in federal systems, which is pretty scary. at the end of the day, they made a mistake. they did something wrong, but they paid the price. they are good family people. workers.rd i met some really, really hard workers. all i am saying is once they have done their time, once they have paid their price, and paid theiro society, -- paid debt to society, give them back their constitutional and civil rights. make them whole again. that is all i am asking because today as it stands, it does not happen. also apply to

violent criminals who have paid their debt to society -- should that also apply to violent criminals who have also paid their debt to society? guest: i think they have to be looked at. like i said earlier, there are people that do bad things that belong in prison. somebody pays their debt to society. at some point in time, when does that debt end? for violence, you know, it is something that has to be looked at. my biggest concern is the nonviolent prisoners. today, well, as of int year, you had 27,000 men minimum security prison camps in the federal system. that means they are not violent, because they could not be there if they were, and they are doing under 10 years in prison.

these men can go back into society. they can work. they can pay taxes. they can take care of their families, but in reality we prevent them from doing that, and that is one of my principal concerns. rake is calling from new jersey on our democrat line -- is calling from new jersey on our democrat line. go ahead. .aller: good morning mr. kerik i appreciate you. i am pretty sure you are rehabilitated and are a cool dude. askedstion was actually by that tweet. -- if i hadtion basically the power to become president of the united states, and i would give you back your

position, would you look into other cases right now, especially talking about the case -- 13 years ago about a young man named dominick suter who basically ran an israeli moving system company out of new jersey, and look into his businesses as well? would you, as commissioner, reopen that case? they were held in a new york city prison for a couple of months. does that ring a bell to you. -- to you? host: commissioner? guest: no. the name does not signed -- sound familiar. host: let's take the question and broaden it a little bit -- have you talk to your former colleagues about your reform

efforts, and have you met any of the people that you put in jail since you have been out? guest: no. i have not met anyone that i put in prison, but i have talked to a number of my colleagues, and peter, i have to tell you, initially, when we have these somersations, and i think of my best conversations, actually, were in prison. a number of my former colleagues, people that worked for me -- keep in mind, in the new york city police department i had 55,000 men and women that worked for me, and in the new york city department of corrections i had 13,000. so, it is a pretty big group of people, many of which came to prison to see me, and during the course of our conversation, when we talked about the criminal justice system, i thought initially they thought i was losing my mind until we sit around that visiting room and we

look around the room and i start identifying people and what they have done. this guy, is a commercial fisherman and he caught too many fish. they see him with his kids, his , andchildren, his family then they get to talk to his family when they leave. they see a young man, 19, 20 10, 15ld, who is doing years, for a low-level drug offense, and they talk to his family and they get to understand the devastation that it is caused his family. or, they see a businessman or an doingey that is in prison a year and a day -- a 75-year-old attorney doing a year and a day. he is 75 years old. what is the sense in sentencing him? put him in home confinement.

i do not think anyone comprehends time. this is prosecutors, judges, cops, me -- nobody understands what it is like to live by a clock that is standing still. no one. until you have done it. me, and they have said, especially the press -- they love to jazz this, just this up in the media. you went to a minimum-security fed. a country club, club my answer is find the finest hotel you can find. in manhattan you have the saint regis, four seasons. take one of those hotels, walk into their finest suite, go into the bathroom, lock yourself in

that bathroom for a year and tell me how luxurious it is. the deprivation of freedom is not luxurious, and i do not give a dam where you are at. i do not care what situation you are housed under. i do not care what your facility is like. you cannot talk your kids in and not, say prayers with them, visit them at school, or take them to a school event -- then it is pretty horrific, especially for someone that for their entire life has abided by the law. it is horrifying. -- for my think colleagues, they did not get it. they did not understand it until they were physically there and got to see it, and a number of them today look at it very differently. host: person. california. you are on with bernard kerik. caller: thank you, commissioner

kerik. i appreciate your valuable input into the country via c-span. guest: thank you. and as i was arrested had -- and as a private investigator for 23 years, i was arrested for a nonviolent -- or according to what the laws were at the time, serve five years -- served five years of a sentence. i was plea bargained. the reality is we have to understand these problems begin attorneylocal district and their efforts to make convictions, whether they are valid or not. unfortunately, we have a local police force and district

attorney who are looking at would like you to give me some input, or give the nation some input on the problems we are experiencing with the efforts to prosecute at the lowest level, table i. -- thank you. host: carson, what were you convicted of, and were you guilty? caller: i was convicted in a plea bargain of assault with fidelity -- deadly weapon on a police officer. host: do you think you are guilty? caller: i absolutely was not guilty, but by the dynamics of our local system as commissioner kerik knows, we have a necessity to plea bargain. i was originally arrested for nine felonies and three

pleameanors, but had to bargain as they were throwing up 25 years in my face. bear in mind that had never been arrested in my entire life until i was 52 years of age. host: how did that change your life? caller: it changed it profoundly, as commissioner kerik indicated. you are not done once you have served your sentence. you have a permanent stigma attached to you, and even at age 60 now, it is impossible for me to get meaningful employment. host: thank you, sir. bernard kerik? i -- listen, i understand what he is saying. this system has to be fixed.

i want to touch on the prosecutor thing and the law enforcement thing in general. nobody is more pro-law enforcement than i am, even with all i have been through. people violate the law, they need to be held accountable. flawed.system is on the prosecutorial lens, i have worked -- personally, i have worked with, i think, some of the most incredible, phenomenal prosecutors, both at county level, and a federal level. i was assigned to the new york force.k i think i worked with some of the best prosecutors in this country, but you have to keep in mind, whether it is a local county prosecutor or a federal prosecutor, their performance evaluation is based on three

things. one, the conviction rate. two, the amount of time someone is sentenced. three, the positive press they bring to their office. those are the things a are judged on -- their performance evaluations are they still on the. that has a lot to -- on that. that has a lot to do with fairness and prosecution. a public defender -- a federal public defender is not based in judged on their acquittals. they are judged by how many cases they can get off of the desk. the system is flawed. we need to have oversight of prosecutors who violate the laws . real oversight. they need to be held accountable. it is not all of them. them, butmost of

there are prosecutors in this violatetoday that do the laws to enforce them, and a to be held accountable. real accountability. i think if we had that, we would see less of those problems. from mineral wells, texas, on our public line -- republican line. , did i mr. kerik understand your crime was not paying social security taxes on an illegal alien that you had hired? guest: yes, sir. some of them, yeah. that is amazing that that could be a felony. i never would have believed that it guest: -- believed that. guest: take my word for it. caller: it sounds like somebody

up in our had a personal grudge against you to prosecute you for that when there are politicians taking bribes that are never prosecuted. for example, senator robert torres celli took bribes. the person who bribed him, i understand, was prosecuted, but the senator got off. so, somebody wanted to take care of him, but the criminal was briber, the brider -- not the person bribed. host: let's leave it there. bernard kerik, do politics play a role in conviction? guest: they are not supposed to, but the reality is they do. there are selective prosecutions all of the time in this country, and you would have to be blind

to say there is not. there is. be it politically selective, personally selective, it happens. it is human nature, almost. it should not happen, but it does, and that is another arena of accountability that should be looked at. -- that isut it is the way we operate. you know, it happens. to,know, it is not supposed but it does, and anyone that says it does not, or anyone who thinks it does not, open your eyes and take another look. host: just another few minutes with our guest. derek from their moronic, new area --from new york new york. waser: about 22 years ago i beat up by police, charged with

reckless endangerment. i had money and was able to do my stuff out and i was the witness to a murderer, and due to the fact i was a witness to a murder they ended up dropping some of these charges, but i still have the felony on my record. new york city for this, was awarded six figures, but the police were never put in jail for what they had done to me. police lie. i do not understand why this goes on. police lie and they do not get charge. over six paid me figures for what happened -- new york city paid me over six figures for what happened to me, but nothing happened to the police. host: bernard kerik, can you speak to that issue in general? guest: i cannot speak to that specific case because i do not

know about it, but to say police are not held accountable -- that is not true. they are held accountable in many circumstances. i cannot talk to his specific issue, but if you pick up "the new york post," or "the new york daily news," several times a month there are police officers that are held accountable for either ethical breaches or some in activity -- whether it is assault, a drug-related issue, no matter what the case is, police are held accountable. in new york city, in general, you have the manhattan d.a. office, or the local district attorney's office that looks at these issues. you have the civilian complaint review board that will look at an assault issue like that. then, quite often, you have the federal government that will come in and look at an incident like that where an officer is involved in assault to see if

there is any federal civil violations. do things slip through the >>? -- through the cracks? of course, the police are held accountable when they are caught. host: mark, alaska. go ahead. caller: thank you. thank you to the guest for his honesty and taking this cause up because it is a scourge on our nation, and it is an embarrassment. first of all, he has made some excellent points. the prison lobby is getting built up because of the private prison industry. that is one of the first things we need to eliminate. tois our duty as citizens incarcerate people, and it is not something that we can farm out to a corporation.

once that happens, we have a lobby, and we know how powerful the lobby industry is. i would also like to say that the presumptive, one mandatory -- or mandatory sentencing, came about in the 1980's, when we -- i guess we lacked a way to manipulate the voting base, so politicians would talk about being tough on crime, and that byhow they got elected instilling all of us with fear. host: mark, we are running out of time. let's get a comment from commissioner kerik on the privatization issue. guest: privatization is doable in certain circumstances, in lower-level facilities, but i would not -- i would never sign a contract with a private corrections company that had a

mandate to have that contract for 20 years and i would have to guarantee them a 90% occupancy rate. this is not a hotel. anyone that would sign a contract guaranteeing an occupancy rate in the facility -- you would have to be doing something illegal, unconstitutional to sign that contract. would sign a private contract with a private organization if they could guarantee me a reduction in recidivism -- create programs, have programs that reduces recidivism. guarantee me that, and i will think about signing the contract. your view on the death penalty, and has a changed? my view on the death penalty is the same as it was before -- someone who kills someone with malice, and they are convicted, personally, i have no objection to the death

penalty. what i do have an issue with today, and i would feel and -- extremely uncomfortable with -- i would have to see incredible, incredible evidence to prove the person was guilty. we have seen way too many cases where there has been -- there have been prosecutorial misconduct in some of these cases that have been overturned, and that scares me. i am for the death penalty, but i think there has to be guarantees within the system that where there is oversight on the prosecutors that prosecute these cases -- to ensure that convicted of a death penalty case that they are really guilty. >> what is your advice for what is yourhost: advice for ex-felons that do not

have your resources or felons that do not have your resources? guest: i could tell you, peter, i have tremendous resources, and i am not doing tremendously better than any of them. they have to stay focused, trying to get beyond all of the negativity and all of the stigma , and, you know, do whatever they have to do to stay out of prison. do not go back. and it is not as easy as it sounds. especially for -- go ahead. host: go ahead and finish, sir. guest: it is not as easy as it sounds, especially for guys that are uneducated and we have people that come out of prison that are uneducated, illiterate, and they will have an enormous problem finding jobs -- basic,

low-level jobs. it is an extremely difficult circumstance. host: if people are interested in following you in this work, where's the best place for them to go? guest: bernard kerik on "washingtonave more journal" tomorrow morning. voteresident of rock the talks about the relaunch of her organization, its new mission, and its goal to register 1.5 million new voters before the midterm elections. richard norton smith gives an overview of political conventions on the 50th anniversary of the 1964 republican nomination, the nomination of barry goldwater, and the year that marked the

split in the gop that continues today. we will be looking for your calls and comments tomorrow starting at 7:00 eastern time. baseball does strike me as a good sport to be the national past of a democratic nation because democracy is about compromise and settling. you don't get everything you want. baseball is like that. there's a lot of losing in baseball. every team that goes to spring training knows it is going to win 60 games, lose 60 games. you play the whole season to sort out the middle 42. win 11 out of 20 games, you have a good chance to play in october. it is the sport of the half loaf, as is democracy. >> george will on his latest book and baseball and wrigley

field and the latest controversy surrounding one of his columns. years, c-span brings public affairs events from washington directly to you putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefing's, and conferences, and offering complete coverage of the u.s. house, all as a public service of private industry. we are c-span created by the cable-tv industry 35 years ago and brought to you as a public service by your local provider. live ine back nashville, tennessee, for the national governors association summer conference. the next session will focus on getting veterans back to work and the governors in charge of this committee are jay nixon of missouri and rick snyder of michigan.

as we wait for the governors to set up for the next session on veterans, we are going to look back at an earlier discussion from today on education and job training. this is with the head of north american operations for an international consulting company. he is introduced by the chair of the nga, oklahoma governor mary fallin. >> i would like to introduce steve. he is the executive of north america [indiscernible] he is responsible for the overseeing of business in the united states, the company's largest market and also in canada. he works to ensure the company remains well-positioned for continuous growth in important markets which means ensuring he

has the right employees with the right skill set to fill those jobs. prior to assuming his current position, steve served for five years as the chief executive of the help and public service operating group. under his leadership, they delivered double-digit revenue currency ine local the fiscal years 2012 and 2013. between 2004 and 2009, he served as the chief operating officer leading the company's business strategy and geographic operations ensuring companywide operational excellence. we used to be lieutenant governors. we are governors now. we are fortunate to have someone who not only experiences what we have been talking about all year long, that is building a thatger educated workforce has to work in the private

sector. we are fortunate to have steve well for us -- steve with us. please give a warm welcome to steve. >> thank you. i appreciate it very much. i am from austin, texas. we pride ourselves on our live music. but after last night's show, i know who is the king. there is no doubt where hundred music is centered. thank you, governor,, hospitality. there is no doubt where country music is centered. i'm here to talk with you about one of the most critical issues we face as a nation. that is the battle for talent. thank you for your leadership on gae in g-8 initiative -- n initiative and congratulations on the progress you have made in a coma -- in oklahoma.