. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back author richard norton smith. a pleasure to have you. thanked for being with us. guest: my pleasure host: taking a look back 50 years ago, nomination of barry goldwater which would rock the gop convention. lee edwards called him the most consequential loser in american politics.

it all began 50 years ago today in san francisco. let's take a look back at one of the news reels reflect okay what happened in california. >> the man who came from san francisco expecting to win in a walk appears heading that direction. barry goldwater is claiming more than he needs to win on the first ballot. when he addresses the platform committee, he appears to be a man who exudes confidence. he gives the committee at preview of his campaign tactic. he calls for less government at home. a rear guard, william scranton attempted a floor fight over the seating of a negro delegate from tennessee. he was defeated in a voice vote and his followers girded for another battle. meanwhile, former president dwight ice en hour arrives by

train for the convention, mum on his choice. he says the g.o.p. platform need not have a plank condemn, the extreme. >> the largest civil rights demonstration since the march on washington last summer is assembled before the san francisco city hall. 40,000 people, half negros demonstrate against goldwater and hear from henry cabbot lodge and other anti-goldwater leaders. >> that takes us back 50 years ago and sets up our conversation. how significant was this convention? guest: you cannot over emphasize how important it was. it really was a defining -- i would argue the defining moment in the modern republican party. there had been this right/left, conservative/liberal, northeast/western battle for a long time. there had been strong conservative forces behind bob

taft, for example, of ohio. but what happened in 1964, it's one of those rare moments in history where you can really, really see and the television audience did. this is the first real television convention as well. >> that's important. you could see the page being turned. it wasn't simply that barry goldwater and his forces took over the republican party. it's the old eastern establishment that had dominated and rallied around rockefeller and scranton were permanently relegated to a minority status tom wicker who wrote about this july keepth, 1964 described as a complete state of exhaustion for more than eight hours for those not old enough to remember. this is when conventions really matter. >> platted platforms mattered. the out-voted liberals, we will

call them, the eastern establishment, if you will, rallied behind a pro-civil rights plank. but, also, nelson rockefeller who had fought goldwater in epic contests through that spring was the main speaker for a proposed amendment on tuesday night at the convention that would specifically denounce extremism. an issue we are grappling with 50 years later. it explicitly mentioned the communist party of america, the ku klux klan and the exclusion of the birch society who made it could troversial among many supporters. >> this was a headline. tom wicker from 1964, goldwater backers vote down the plank and his rights on an atom bomb plan.

>> as i say, it was -- it was a transforming convention. the party redefined itself. remember, here is the great i n iro irony. we are meeting in san francisco. eight years earlier, the same party met in the cal palace in san francisco to renominate eisenhower who was the embodiment of consensus politics, slightly right of center but, you know, eight years later, the eisenhower party was being laid to rest. it was a party that would be ronald reagan's party, newt gingrich's party and i would argue, in many ways, it's the tea party. there is a philosophical, funneled mental break it was no

longer a party raising questions about how government functioned. it was a libertarian way about the role of government in our lives. they would government was too intrusive and laid down markers that 50 years later, very cloeft to t to the heart of mod he were republicanism. >> we will hear from governor rockefeller in a moment and senator barry goldwater. this is a fascinating look back 50 years ago. he had to endure the full ho hostillery. you are coming out with a few book "on his own terms: the life of nelson rockefeller." talk about this. >> it opens with this scene, the defining moment in the history of the party and it certainly is a defining moment in the life of nelson rockefeller. this is history with the a face on it.

this is nelson rockefeller, the man that the right loved to hate, in effect, taunting the majority in at a time cal palace over this particular issue of the force of the republican party on the issue of political extremism. remember, this is on national t.v. managers punched it out. it was out of prime time in the east. but they knew what the consequences could be in terms of demonstrating to viewers the meaning of extremism in this scene. host: 50 years ago tomorrow, governor nelson rockefeller of new york. >> precisely one year ago today,

on july 14th, 1963, he warned the republican party is in real danger of subversion by a radical, well-financed, highly disciplined charge [applause.] it is we predict. the honest republican

liberalism. with the accommodating the mainstream of republican principles. july 14th. those weren't cheers. those were jeers. the goldwater manager who had the nomination walked out and the platform, they had the nomination. the one thing they wanted to guard against was some kind of unperceived incident that would damage their chances, which were already, you know, a locking shot going in to the fall campaign, cliff white sitting his trailer, the mastermind behind goldwater recognized this

is what they were afraid of he tried to shut it down. mohegan sun were too strong. >> our guest is richard norton smith coming out with a new book on nelson rockefeller. it will be released this fall. until researching this lengthy biography, if he were alive today, would he recognize the current republican party? >> i think he would recognize it, but i think he would also be warning against what he saw as extremism. you know, rockefeller came from a tradition of theodore roosevelt tradition as a boy in new york. he sat on it. r's lap and this did a chat. he saw himself in the lincoln tradition, in the ice en hour

tradition he had a strong civil rights record. he was appalled that the republican party was being recast as the white man's party. that was not his version of the party of lincoln. and yet more recently, john mccain viewed as a moderate, mitt romney viewed as a moderate. >> that's who the republicans turn to as their party's no, ma'am knee. >> the fascination thing is in some ways, they are almost pa parallel to the wilkes and the deweys. they were candidates somewhat reluctantly nominated by a party whose heart belonged elsewhere. conservatives in the 40s and the 50s, and i would argue many more recently feel that they have had these candidates theft upon them, that the party

establishment has shoved them down their throats they were told they were the only electable candidate and what emerged in the early '60s and particularly with the tea party is wait a second. let's step back. let's nominate a real conservative. let's nominate someone who fu fundamentally disagrees with the direction of american government over the last half century and try our chances with someone who we really believe in. >> we are taking calls and comments in just a moment as we look back 50 years ago when the it nominated barry goldwater, the impact the nomination had on the republican party and its relevance today to the tea party within the g.o.p. phone lines are open. >> we will get to your calls in just a moment. here is barry goldwater july, 1964: >> let our republicanism, is it

so focused and so dedicated not to be made futile by unthinking and stupid labels. i would remind you that extremism is liberty, people

remember what he said. >> absolutely. a defined campaign, for many defined modern conserve testimony. goldwater more than once in later years had an attitude that i told you so as he saw his brand of conservatism embraced by the prior to as ronald reagan became a dominant politic figure in the '80s and beyond. it is one of those electrifying moments. >> conventions used to produce.

george wills talks about this. he said basically thatraps won in 196 fire. it took 16 years for the results to come in i would expect conservatives would be the first to question the intervening years when it was puric. >> you are traveling out to california, speaking with ronald reagan as part of a tour of presidents and patriots. the website is presiden presidentsandpatriots.com to learn about the influence of california on party politics. >> yeah. a day at the reagan ranch, a picnic up there. sam simeon, ex-president of the hoover institution in san

francisco where warren harding died. it's an 8-day california experience. i guess we got the information up on the scene. >> the website is there. >> let me give you a phone number if people want to talk to a real life human being, they can call 202-657-7444. >> we will come back to the number in just a moment. why did the republicans choose san francisco as its convention city? >> that's a great question. ironically because there was a sense the republican party was really growing in the west. we think back to the '60s and the 'seventies and obviously, it was a party that had the historically had its grounding in many ways in the midwest. and that was changing in the '60s. the south came into play after the civil rights act. for example, the state of georgia had never voted for a republican in 1964, it voted for

barry goldwater. it was no accident that that was the year of the civil rights bill the other side of the coin is the state of ver mott had never voted for a democrat in modern history. it voted for lyndon johnson. '64 was a realining year. part of that was thevan party was shifting. >> a northeast ten midwestern party to ausouthern and western party and picking san francisco as the host city for the con convention was a recognition of that. >> steve makes his point. my reference to calling mccain and romney, quote, moderates, professor smith did not blink. romney called himself an intense conservative. i think he used the word "extreme conservative." >> the same thing, you get the dichotomy. that the makes my point. both mccain and romney felt the need to, in effect, convince the core of the party, the bates of

the party that they were more conservative than perhaps their voting record or administrative record let me on. >> let's go to bill joining us from illinois with richard norton smith. good morning. >> with gary bold water today, would he still be in the republican party, or do you think he might be a libertarian? >> i think he would -- i think, you know, it's an impossible question to answer. i thought it was possible to be both. what you are referring to in later years as some of the social issues came to the fore, goldwater for example famously told jerry falwell to kiss his post there are. we know senator goldwater was a

champ upon. >> what was the line? i don't care if they are gay or straight as long as they shoot straight? >> exactly but those were not issues in 1964. i w he was a libertarian in his approach to the overall role, function, cost of government. which he wanted to keep as small as possible. it's over the next years that came to involve issues of government in the bedroom this is with laura saying i want to go on vacation with richard norton smith. the cal palace is no longer there. where was it located? >> it is still there? >> it's still there? >> yeah. >> where is it. >> in daley city outside of san

francisco. it's a big -- it was built it's not particularly scenic? >>. >> the september tour, this is the headline from today corbservatives 0 much. democrats line. good morning caller: how are you doing? mr. smith i would like to ask you about strom thurman and jessie helm and what influence did they have on the conservative wing of the they

were the per sonification of dixiecrats who in the wake of the civil rights movement and particularly the package. simple rights act and the voting rights act in '65 switched parties the political realignment. it's important of what congress did, the civil rights act, what the two parties did at the con convention, what the voters did new england, whennists growing up was rock-ribbed republican except for massachusetts and maybe rhode island. new england has become the most reliably democratic bastion in the country. but the deep south, almost the

solid south, which meant the solid democratic south is now the solid republican south. one of the photos courtesy of the smith sewnian.com. tracy from minneapolis. good morning. caller: good morning, guys, richard. how come the word extreme has changed? all of the compression and the control and the power but mention anything about controlling spending or getting the government out of our lives is seen as someone that is bad. the whole country was built on the fact that we fought this type of power but now, it's blended down to if you even

question anything p you are fringe. he i think they have worked this over. is that true? >> it's an interesting viewpoint. you could argue for 50 years, american politics has revolved around the argument of what is extreme. the right would have one dwef nix. the left would have another definition. part of that, of course, is the rise in 64, dwight eisen mower is appealing for unity and he has this throw away life in which he talks about sensation seeking columnists and comment ate orders who couldn't care less about the good of our party and the place explodes, down

with walter whitman. down with walter whitman. i would argue fox news, much of the internet, the whole counter journalistic enterprise that goes by the name of conservety media is an out quote of the emotions that first found voice in that convention at that moment. >> the cal palace opened back in 1941. there is a body art convention taking place there later this summer let's go to leo in mount larrel maryland. >> i am on the air? >> you are. caller: i would like to request mr. smith. you showed earlier the speech of rockefeller and the goldwater delegates booing him. didn't he do that