to make her aggressive. days, withll knowledge of basic truths. religious freedom is human freedom. that is why i am especially proud to be joined today by president obama's newly minted nominee as our next ambassador at large, for international religious freedom, rabbi david sapperstein. when it comes to the work of protecting religious freedom -- >> >> we will leave secretary of state john kerry here. you can to the rest of his results on c-span.org. there are 16 suspension built on the agenda and house today. speaker. the clerk: the speaker's room, washington, d.c., july 28, 2014. i hereby appoint the honorable

george holding to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to the order of the house of january 7, 2014, the chair will now recognize members from lists submitted by the majority and minority leaders for morning hour ebate. the chair will alternate recognition between the parties with each party limited to one hour and each member other than the majority and minority leaders and the minority whip each, to five minutes but in no event shall debate continue beyond 1:50 p.m. the chair recognizes the gentleman from oregon, mr. blumenauer, for five minutes. mr. blumenauer: yesterday, "the new york times" produced a carefully balanced rationale for ending the federal ban on marijuana. in more that 40 years, this failed attempt at prohibition has been hopelessly out of step. the "times" editorial said marching toward criminalization, adult use while the federal government

maintains its schizophrenic posture, pretending marijuana is as dangerous -- is more dangerous than heroin or l.s.d., worse than cocaine or methamphetamine. while the current administration has been somewhat tolerant of the actions taking place in 3/4 of our states that are acting to decriminalize, authorize medical marijuana and more recently in colorado and washington state, to legalize adult use, there's no guarantee that future administration also have a lighter touch. that's wrong. as "the times" and others pointed out, there are significant financial costs and huge human costs of this failed experiment in prohibition which, as i said, falls disproportionately on young men of color, especially african-americans. "the times" readily acknowledged this issue has troubling aspects. we have all struggled as a society to deal with drugs, legal and illegal.

addiction to cigarettes and alcohol, prescription drugs and narcotics extracts a heavy toll. we are all deeply concerned about the impact that marijuana and other dangerous substances have on young people. this is particularly a problem dealing with the development of the young brain being affected by marijuana use. while this clearly can have serious consequences, so, too, there are horrific costs associated with alcohol, tobacco, to say nothing of other illegal drugs. we as a society have struggled with these challenges but we've actually had some measure of success with controlling use of cigarettes and alcohol. the use by adults of tobacco has declined 2/3 in a generation. there's no reason to think we can't do the same for marijuana if we act rationally. as a practical matter, the current system doesn't accomplish keeping it out of

the hands of children while it does inflict that real damage on casual users and those young men of color. currently there is a vast illegal network that supplies the public and children with marijuana. no one checks i.d. there's no business license to use. for those of us working to reform our flawed marijuana law, "the times" editorial marks a significant milestone, joining other publications and organizations arguing for a new approach. it comes while we in oregon, which was the first state to decriminalize marijuana, will vote this fall to become the third straight to legalize adult use. "the times" editorial and the promise of more discussion in the paper joins with other editorial pages across the country. "the portland oregonian" had a particularly thoughtful and very positive editorial on

saturday, the 26th of july, talking about the opportunities in our state for legalization. the nation's editorial pages are playing a constructive role in having a careful discussion about the marijuana poll circumstances its failure and the alternatives. we're seeing growing awareness among significant floor action that slightly reduces the illogical discussions. we need to keep pace for what's going on with the nation's he had norial writers and the march towards rational policy that's going on in states across america. it's not too late for this congress to make constructive contributions. we have several opportunities. the cultivation of industrial hemp. we don't force illegal marijuana businesses to be all cash. tax equity and protecting medical marijuana from

heavy-handed federal interference. the recent positive votes in congress suggests that more progress is possible before we adjourn. the speaker pro tempore: the chair recognizes the gentleman from virginia, mr. wolf, for five minutes. mr. wolf: i thank you, mr. speaker. another sunday has come and gone without mass being set in mosul. there's no doubt about it, religious cleansing is continuing to occur in iraq. the churches have been seized, and some turned into mosques. every trace of christianity is being eradicated in iraq. the christian property has been seized, looted and given to others. the vicker of the only anglican church in baghdad recently stated, quote, things are so desperate, our people are disappearing, we have had our people massacred, their heads chopped off.

are we seeing the end of christianity? we are committed, he said, come what may, we will keep going to the end but it looks as though the end could be near, end of quote. vicker white continuing said, quote, the christians are in grave danger. they are literally living in the desert and on the street. they have nowhere to go, end of quote. the question remains, what should the world be doing to help the christians and other religious minorities in iraq? the administration has taken a small step, although it needs to do much more. the president of the united states needs to speak out on this issue. this morning after a nine-month vacancy, the white house announced the nomination of rabbi david sapperstein to be for mbassador at large

religion. he's been engaged on this issue for a long time. i welcome this nomination. it is a good nomination and i ask the senate to confirm rabbi sapperstein quickly. on friday the house passed legislation that creates the position of special envoy for religious minorities in the middle east and south central asia. this was a bipartisan legislation that was introduced with congressman anna eshoo and myself. our office worked closely with our former colleague, senator roy blunt. i ask our president to sign this bill quickly and to fill this position as quickly as possible. time is of the essence. we cannot afford to wait any longer. christianity, as we now know it, is being wiped out before our very eyes in iraq. the speaker pro tempore: the chair recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. gallego, for five minutes. mr. allego: thank you,

speaker. i ask unanimous consent to revise and extend. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. thank you, mr. speaker. today i'd like to continue the journey through the 23rd district of texas and talk about kermit. kermit, texas, which many people know as being one of the communities in the center of all of the action with respect to the energy economy in texas, but i know it as the home of the yellow jackets. the yellowjackets who for years have been a formidable foe for my own alpine bucks. kermit started life -- the town started as a local trading and supply company, trading and supply depot for the ranches that dotted the west texas landscape. kermit gets its landscape not from a notable green frog, the first frog to communicate with humans, but instead it gets its name from kermit roosevelt, the

only place in the united states that is named for the son of a former u.s. president, teddy roosevelt. kermit, texas, became the county seat of winkler county city like was a many of the other rural communities in texas that had a challenge staying alive. small towns have always had a particular challenge, and in kermit's case, they were devastated by a drought that struck the area in 1916 that forced many homesteaders and ranchers to leave. rmit ran dry by 1924 and the ernd baird family was the sole house with a single school and a lone courthouse. the whole town nearly evaporated into the air until that sea of oil was discovered below the surface, and in 1926, kermit, texas, became a boomtown. that boomtown continued into the 1960's and through the

boom, the town has seen tremendous growth. during the rapid expansion of the city, flooding actually became a problem and as with small towns that are scattered throughout rural texas, they worked through that problem to a solution. they constructed crown streets and the city kept growing and building additional infrastructure to support the oil boom and the growing needs of their county. kermit, texas, although small in size, has displayed that same attitude reflected in many of the successes of our great nation. they work through tough situations with creativity and resolve and as a result we as a nation greatly benefit from their willingness to stick through it. kermit, texas, and those who worked and lived and raised families there, they've all contributed to our energy security. they've all contributed to the energy security of our entire country. without them it would have been difficult to meet the energy demands of world war ii and

after the war, the economic boom that the u.s. would experience. even today, kermit is a main stay of the west texas economy, an active chamber, an active community, a wonderful place to live and to raise kids and, of course, the ever-proud yellowjackets. if you find yourself near kermit, texas, i invite you to visit the small and historic town that has contributed so much, so greatly to our texas values, our texas history and our texas success. kermit, texas. thank you, mr. speaker, and i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the chair recognizes the gentleman from north carolina, mr. holding, for five minutes. i holding: mr. speaker, rise today to recognize north carolina representative dr. jim fulgim, who recently passed away after a brief but courageous battle with cancer. a life-long resident of

raleigh, he married his high school sweetheart, mary susan. they both received their medical degrees at chapel hill and mary susan continues to serve the raleigh community as a doctor, as jim did for so many years. i want to commemorate jim for all he contributed to the field of medicine, the city of raleigh, north carolina, and our country. jim was a world renowned neurosurgeon, served his country in the gulf war and later went on to serve in the north carolina state legislature. jim was truly a great american, a good friend of mine and a mentor to me and so many others that he came in touch and contact with. as a member of the north carolina house of representatives, jim was an exemplary statesman on behalf of his constituents. he was compassionate man and touched the lives of many. throughout jim's life, he tirelessly offered his service to his community. he was involved in numerous organizations in the state, including united methodist

church, where he was active throughout his life. mr. speaker, north carolina mourns his passing. my thoughts and prayers are with jim's wife, 47 years, mary susan, and the rest of his family, emily, molly, patrick, jim and sisters, peggy, mary ann, ruth and two grandchildren, margaret and kurt. thank you, mr. speaker. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to clause 12-a of rule 1, the chair declares the house in recess until put nbc has tweeted out that the republican aide to the committee is drafting a bill

that could be filed today. and a debate on the resolution suing the president for failing to implement the health care law. the senate is in at 2:00 eastern. later in the day, at 5:30. also on the agenda, a bill for highway and mass transit projects in a vote on the nomination of robert mcdonald is the next federal affairs secretary. you can see that live on c-span when they return and the senate on c-span2. for more on what is coming up, as members per pair to leave for break, we spoke with a reporter earlier today. as aining us on the phone congressional reporter with politico. the house has its own a bill. the senate has a version as well. house take up their legislation? >> you could see it happening this week. there is a lot of contention

about this bill. is there enough for border security? we will see john boehner and kevin mccarthy and the republican leadership really working this week before they schedule a vote to ensure that they have the ability to pass it. democrats will not be joining in the efforts. host: they will not be able to count on democratic votes? guest: there are a few reasons for that. opposedlosi is really to changing that anti-trafficking law in conjunction with the supplemental. she is doing it as a process of legislation and having that change go through the normal order. she does not want it tied to supplemental. that is really meant to address an emergency.

that is also a projection the amount being spent is really much less than the president had asked for. by and large, they're not going to come in and do but the democratic party has done when a speaker boehner has not been able to call enough republican votes and get those votes to pass. host: the headline, from your is that the house gop faces a big test on this bill. why? where is that coming from? various parts of the gop. you see those conservative most,s who believed that if not all spending, should be offset. when you have border states who want to see more border security

measures put in their, then you have those who disagree generally with how the government is handling the immigration crisis. they want to see much more there. it is an interesting group that is opposing this. they could lead up to trouble for the gop. story on have another your website. cornin is pushing a bill. they have come together. piece, here is a quote from senator cornyn. there wings of the democratic party and the republican party that are willing to do nothing on this? if they do not see what they want -- spending offsets for the republicans. guest: there absolutely is. that is a real feeler.

the democrats feel that they have been the leading voice on immigration reform. they do not think they will be punished by voters. they wanted to see it done. people called it shameful. they advocated their duties. stronge standing separate from the 2008 trafficking law. republican lot -- party has a split. we are going to be punished by increasingly difficult populations in the latino voters. them do not see it as as big of us threat. you will hear that throughout the week. host: what about the senate side? they have their own legislation. they want to spend their own money. is it a slamdunk? that is hard in the

senate. here's all of the action over amendments and how poorly the senate majority leader, harry work and get they along. it is more likely they will pass something. is it something the house could pass? that is highly unlikely. do the two bodies have to go into conference committee? can they do it before friday which is when the senate leaves for a five-week break? some say of course we should keep working and stay. some say would be against the law to stay past the august recess. host: why is that? guest: it is some procedural archaic rules in the house bylaws and say they have to recess by august. it would be archaic. nobody would be going to jail. those who really stick to the

letter of bylaws are talking about that. host: that is a question for our viewers. should congress finish this before they leave for the five-week rate? there was a deal reached between the house and senate on the veterans affairs health care bill. can this get past the wings of a both parties by friday? >> this is much more likely. we really thought it was falling apart. the summit democratics were criticizing. it looked like they were walking away from negotiations. they accused each other of giving up. we are hearing that bernie sanders and jeff miller have reached a deal and come much closer.

they're going to unveil their proposal for how to fix it. that could actually get past and sent to the president before the august recess. host: we will have coverage of that news conference. this is a $15 billion price tag. beyond that, what are some of the highlights? >> you are going to see an ability for veterans who have been waiting for medical care to leave the v.a. system and take care privately at the v.a.'s expense. if they live far from a va hospital, 40 miles is the agreed-upon distance, you will also see the v.a. secretary the

ability to fire senior managers accused of mismanagement. they can obviously fire those who are ill performing. it takes a very long time because of federal rules about letting employees go and their process to appeal. this was one of the reasons the controversy started in the first place. host: more to come on this v.a. deal in the house and senate. lauren french, thank you for your time this morning. >> again, see the house live at 2:00 eastern. on c-span2, the senate will be on the same time.

about a proposal finalized over the weekend, threatening mismanagement and delays of veteran health care facilities. the news conference will be at 1:30 eastern today, live on c-span2. earlier today, john kerry gave the opening remarks at the young african leaders summit here in washington. he talked about the important relationship between the u.s. and african nations and opportunities for africa when their countries embrace democracy and allow women to become full participants in the political process. ♪ >> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome secretary of state, joh n kerry. [applause]

>> thank you. wow, what a great group. we sit down -- please sit down. so good to see you all. are you having fun? glad to hear it. just beginning. the president will get a chance to speak with you all before long and that will be great. looking forward to it. i'm really excited to see you all here. i hope you are excited to be here. [applause] i cannot thank all the leaders, all across the state department, and across the administration -- people worked really hard to get here. leaders on campuses, college campuses all across the country, all of them have come together to help make this possible. and i am particularly grateful

to the bureau of education on cultural affairs, the bureau of african affairs, the bureau of international information and programs, usaid, u.s. african development foundation, ngo, and academci post20 universities. that is a big group of people who helped make this happen. [applause] importantly, i want to thank you. excited, asred and you can tell, i think. i hope you can tell. to welcome you all here -- it is such a pleasure to welcome so many young african leaders to washington. and, as you know, the leaders of countries will be coming here in just a few days for a first ever summit of all the african

leaders. we are very excited about that. the president is personally very focused on it. right now, we have 500 and fellows from all 49 countries in sub-saharan africa. this is really remarkable. this is a first. presence ofthe real a kind of excitement, a hopefulness, a sense of possibility, that is accompanying and defining this meeting -- i can almost feel my hair growing a brown again. [laughter] actually had a chance to meet a few of you. i don't know where you all are in the group here. how many of you met me along the way in the last journey? handwaving over here and here. anybody over here? nice to see you, thank you. and that is what gave me such a

great relief in this. when i was in africa in may this in africa and maine. i will never forget the story haleone young woman named ta giday -- [cheers and applause] stand up. theta graduated from one of best schools in ethiopia. she could pick any job she wanted to do. believe me. she had a chance to do the most lucrative job there as. make a lot of money, go into the corporate world and literally do anything. you know what? instead, she chose to represent women and children who were the victims of violence. saw how many widows went bankrupt after the loss of

their husbands, she began a campaign to educate women about their legal and financial rights. she has already lived a remarkable life. morehat is even remarkable is that she is not alone. she is one of many young african leaders who are taking on some of the toughest challenges. all of you. we are here today because the united states and countries across africa are natural partners. and it is time to take our partnership to the next level by investing in the continent's greatest natural resource of all -- its people. [applause] and that is what the young african leaders initiative is all about, investing in your ours -- bynd engaging in the promise of a new generation of great leaders in every single field of endeavor.

and when 65% of africa's population is under the age of 35, let me tell you, we don't have a moment to waste. the fact is that we have reached an inflection point for the new africa. place where and a all of you have the great opportunity of a lifetime to of historyc towards change, not stagnation. it towards peace and prosperity, not conflict and richard bijan. africa -- not conflict and retribution. this is not an, exaggeration, is ultimately up to you, the next generation of leaders who will seize the future and become the next generation of ceos and community and political leaders will stop the national leaders. you will define the future. when i look at this audience, i

am not kidding when i say the promise of the future. [applause] human faces behind the story of just how far africa has come. just consider what all of you have witnessed over the course of your young lives. you have seen real incomes across africa increased more reversing two decades of decline. you have seen african trade with the rest of the world increased 200%, excuse me. you've seen 35 peaceful transitions of power. 35 peaceful transitions of power. number of democracies has more than tripled. that is a continent on the move. and you have seen hiv infections declined by nearly 40% in malaria deaths among children declined by 50%.

lookinge on the cusp of at the first generation of children who may be borne aids free as a result of the efforts that we are making. [applause] so, this really is a moment of great opportunity for africa. but make no mistake. it is not automatic. it is also a moment of great decision. the choices that african leaders make, the choices that you make, the choices that you push the political systems of your the choices make, that you help to debate and put on the table and make part of the dialogue of your countries would of that determine the future. you will decide whether or not a decade of progress leads to an era of african prosperity and

stability, or whether you're countries tragically fall back into th cycle after cycle of aagic violence and mark governance that is weak and stifles the promise of a com continent for too long. your promise, the promise each and every one of you bring here to washington. the promise that motivates you every single day as you pursue an education or begin to work as professionals and go out into the world. whether it is in the private sector or the public sector. all of you are committed to try to change the future. you have the ability to do that. that is precisely what president to empowerhed yali, you with new skills, new resources, new networks. so that you can not just demand action, you can go out and act on your own dreams and hopes and

visions for the future. your brief experiences here in the united states are just the start of what we hope will be lasting relationships between , but also with us. we are investing in you so that you can invest in your countries and in the u.s.-africa partnership. u.s.'sbodies the continuing commitment to that vision. and i am very, very proud you are not just heeding the call, you are leading the charge. [applause] i am also inspired by the story of hashim pondeza. hashim, where are you? [cheers and applause] hashim, stand up. is from to -- hashim tanzania. tois leading the charge

strengthen democratic institutions. that is never easy work, it can carry risks in some places. he has worked on child protection issues for save the children and for zanzibar's ministry of labour. but today, he is working to strengthen civil society and democratic institutions at the local level across tanzania. hashim knows that promoting good governance is not just about whether you can work well on your side, it is about working side-by-side. , "the biggest challenge is trying to get many factions to cooperate and reach the same aim." as me tell you something, somebody who is in the middle of trying to get some people who just get seven days of a cease-fire in the middle east, i know what you are talking about, hashim. [applause] it is never easy. .ut that does not mean you stop

that does not mean you turn away. you have to keep doing it. remember what nelson mandela said, "it always seems impossible until it is done." and that is what we have to have as our guide. [applause] so i am proud that the future of our partnership is in hashim's hanscom in your hands. i am also inspired by aichatou tamba. where's aichatou? aichatou is from ethiopia, she is leading the charge to promote peace and security. too often, and into many countries, borders become a barrier. a barrier not just to communication but to trade, to the movement of talent, to the movement of technology. ou has been working to

turn those barriers into opportunities. she has partnered with a dozen african states to prevent -- to provoke conflict prevention. she is working with the african union border program in ethiopia to make a difference on the ground. i am proud that the future of our partnership is also in aichatou's hands. and i am inspired by zandile lambu from zimbabwe. where is zandile? raise your hand. she is leading the charge to promote inclusive economic growth. and zandile hasn't just spoken words about shared prosperity. she has walked the walk. she's used her position at services to create new trade opportunities for mobile money products in africa. she has partnered with businesses to provide mobile money services to local

communities. you know how hard it is to get money into people's hands or moving or control it. well, there is a way to do that now in this mobile, technological world that we all live in. he's being creative and grabbing the best of that. she has volunteered to teach other young women how to design and develop mobile apps. she is not in this business to make money. she is in it to make a difference. and i am proud that the future of this partnership is also in zandile's hands. [applause] now, we live in a very complicated world today. full of close calls that can go either way. but i know this -- when you promote democratic change, when you transform borders of conflict into bastions of peace, when you empower women to

realize their aspirations, you create a better future. not for some, but for all. win thisno way to battle in countries where women are left behind. you cannot leave half your team off the field and win the game. i want you to know that the obama administration is inspired by the work that hashim and aichatou and zandile are all doing. all of you are doing. and that is why we are so committed to the young african leaders initiative for the long haul, not just for this meeting, for the long haul. when you leave here, i hope you will leave here with a renewed sense of purpose, with a renewed sense of hope, with a renewed commitment, a renewed understanding of what is possible. i hope you will take these connections you have made here and make the change that you

seek. the challenges may be real -- no, they are real. we all know that. but guess what? so are the opportunities. africa can be a beacon for the world. dramatic transformations are possible. africa will be the place of great growth in this century. to will be the witnesses remarkable transformation. but how you transform -- who benefits, what you become, what whats you protect, opportunities you create and guarantee -- that will write the real history. each of you has an incredible opportunity to change thliv es for the better. -- you cando define your nations in the doing of that. it is tough work. it requires sober commitment and a clear vision of a better future. but i have every confidence, and president obama is more than

convinced, which is why he convened this, you'll rise to the challenge and lift up and inspire citizens in your own countries, all of whom you know are hoping desperately for change. i want to leave you with a thought from the man who inspired me when i was growing up. a younger brother of the youngest man ever elected america's president, a man who had a vision in his own right and went to south africa in 1968 and laid it out to people at a time when it was still difficult, robert kennedy. he said, "few will have the greatness to bend history itself. but each of us can work to change a small portion of events. and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation." he went onto say that each time a man or a woman works to strike out against injustice or change the lot of others, he or she sends forth a tiny ripple of hope.

and crossing each other for a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples can build a current that will sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. is your moments to write the history of africa for the next generation. you have the will. you have the drive. you have the intelligence. you have the vision. you have the ability. you have the courage to stand up and say loudly and clearly, "i will be responsible." and that is leadership. that is the future that we can build together. and we are convinced that the future begins now. here, with these meetings and in the work that you will take back with you, and in our partnership over these next years. thank you all, and god bless. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014]

♪ bejohn kerry will also speaking at an event this afternoon highlighting u.s.-india relations. c-span3 will carry it live beginning at one: 30 eastern, host by the center for american progress. the chairs of the house and senate veterans affairs committee will hold a briefing talking about the proposal addressing mismanagement in veterans health care facilities. that is scheduled for 1:30 eastern. c-span2 will have it. up , remarks from russian churkin.r vitaly

this is a view from the u.n. come we will have his remarks shortly. of guatemala,ers howuras talked about leaders are responding. we will show you as much as we can until the russian ambassador speaks. >> good morning. morning, it is a pleasure to have all of you here. a special welcome to the foreign minister of honduras. we will be joined in about two minutes by the other two foreign ministers. ofcome to the investor

honduras and to his colleagues, who will join us in a moment. speaking spanish] it is great to have you here. today, the wilson center is very the three host foreign ministers of watermark on the el salvador, and honduras. speaking in advance of a meeting tomorrow at the white house between the presidents of the three countries and president obama. they will be discussing the situation of young people migrating in unprecedented the u.s. to the situation is a human tragedy and has aroused well-deserved concern in all of our countries. both push and full factors -- both push and pull factors are involved. on the one hand, the lure of a better life in the u.s.. in many cases, the opportunity to be reunited with family members already living here. there is the desperation of poverty and the fear for

personal safety because of violence that drive people to undertake a several thousand mile trek norfork. in the short term, a number of measures can be taken. the government of the three countries have already taken a number of these steps. the longer-term challenges are going to require sustained efforts. to invest in education, jobs, and institutions for rule of law. these are things that primarily has to be done in each country and led by the governments of their societies. since this is an issue that really binds us together, there are some opportunities to do things together across the region. from central america to north america. our colleagues at the wilson center have been covering this issue extensively. wilson, andn, chris others have been speaking about this. they've been speaking to

congress and other leaders. this is a strong commitment of hours, both to central america, and also migration is a major concern for many of us around the wilson staff. a few months ago, we did a report with the migration policy institute. what we called a regional migration study group. we looked at central america, the three countries here, honduras, automall, and el salvador. as well as mexico in the u.s., what we should be doing in terms of managing migration and regional competitiveness. so we could begin to deal with long-term concerns. there was a report that cannot -- there was a report that came out that had people from the five countries involved. before this became a news story, there are some ideas thinking in terms of our long-term competitiveness and security in

the five countries and what binds us together and why we all benefit by working together. the wilson center's president is not with us today. she is at the aspen institute co-convening, cochairing an advisory group to the homeland security secretary, jeh johnson. she spoke with the secretary and one of the things he pointed out that the migration flows are decreasing noticeably. the foreign minister has pointed this out as well. about a 50% drop over the past 15 days. this is heartening. it is a sign that something to dissuade the flow is working. this should allow us to work on the root causes going forward. that is of interest of not only el salvador, guatemala, and honduras, but also the u.s. and mexico. welcome to the foreign ministers of el salvador and guatemala. and good to have the ambassadors here. 's latinon center

america program is proud to be a trusted space where issues can be discussed. i am very pleased to turn it over to dr. cindy aronson, director of the latin american program at the woodrow wilson center. [applause] thank you very much. welcome to everyone. thank you for your patience and especially to the ambassadors of el salvador and honduras. and then the three distinguished .martinez hugo our company minors has given rise to a debate in the u.s., not only in congress, but also in the cities and towns across the u.s. that have been asked to shelter large numbers of children pending the review

of their cases. for all the hardships that have been suffered by these young people and all the divisions here about how to respond, i see one very thin silver lining. focus renewedhis attention on the insecurity and lack of opportunity that affect millions in central america. i can recall, there are some inerans of previous eras u.s. relations with the region, i can recall the time since the central american wars of the 1980's when so much u.s. media and policy attention has been paid to the region. we may have differing opinions on what is responsible for the surge in the minors, there should be little dispute over the conditions from which they come. according to our own department of homeland security, "i was -- "the children come

from violent regions, where they probably perceive that the risk of traveling alone to the u.s. is preferable to remaining at home. poverty levels have gone down since the 1990's, but it is still the case that approximately 45% of sal vadoreans, 50% of guatemalans, and 67% of hundreondurans are poor. with theis possible right leadership, sufficient active civic participation, and adherence to the principles of transparency and accountability. a critical ingredient for policies to be successful is political will and leadership from the region itself. i believe that a long-term solution depends not only on what the u.s. government is prepared to commit over the long-term, but also what responsibility central american

actors in and out of government are willing to assume to transform their own countries. , centralmistic americans came together with the international community to end fratricidal wars two decades ago. a similar effort can be made to convert this current crisis into an opportunity for building more inclusive and democratic societies. i would like to thank associate director of the latin american program erik paulsen. and half of the interns and is building for all their assistance in putting the event today to get her. i would like to turn the program over to the distinguished host fromorning edition" national public radio, steve inskeep. it is an honor to have you here

as it is an honor to host these foreign ministers. >> thank you. gracias. "distinguished," i thought she was referring to someone else. it is an honor to meet you all. and to share this that form with you. hear a much discussed american news story from the perspectives of other countries that are so clearly affected. i am speaking here with three diplomats. i do understand that. i wish to begin with an undiplomatic question. we have heard the problem described, whose fault is it? [laughter] would you like to begin? >> thank you. i think this is, can i speak in spanish?

i'm going to speak in spanish. it is more comfortable for me. this question, however important it may be, doesn't get to the point. this isn't a matter of finding guilty parties or finger-pointing. it is a matter of sharing responsibility. we have been speaking to central america from the standpoint of challenges. citizens challenges. we have this responsibility that we see as a shared one. that is differentiated. we have to, in the case of drug trafficking, we have to look at it from the standpoint of the producing countries on the one hand, and consuming countries.

hondurans, our belief is, that the lack of opportunities, the levels of violence, of cultural exclusion that we see in honduras, and have seen, are not only the responsibility of hondurans. this is a problem that is all encompassing. it ties into the tragedy of our country being a transit country, which has led us to situation of a war being waged in our country. clicks it is not my intention to keep you here for lunch. i was told you are too lazy to move from this place to the stakeout.

comments on two subjects. toare pleased we are able adopt a policy on syria and iraq. that is a long-standing concern of the russian federation. that such trade can be used to finance terrorist institutions. i hope that those who are engaged in this kind of practice of the security council. that this amounts to very serious transgressions. call nota more general to finance terrorist organizations through donations or otherwise subsidizing the activities of the terrorist organizations operating in syria and iraq. this is an important statement

from the security council. the second issue, is that investigation of the malaysian , the disaster which happened on july 17. the security counsel past eight resolution on the investigation of that disaster. impartialr international investigation. we have very strongly stood behind that resolution. it was on the assistance of the russian delegation that the objective international investigation was included in that resolution. one of the clauses of the resolution provided for immediate end of fighting in the area of the conflict. unfortunately, this is not what we have seen happen. the fighting continued. poroshenkodent

promised there would be no ukrainianf the military within the radius of 40 kilometers. that date continue and that fighting did not allow international investigators and those who are supposed to accompany them for the purposes of protection to reach the crash site. all this is extremely disturbing. statements bye ukrainian security officials that it was their intention to take over the site, militarily, that would amount to a direct 21-66.on of resolution i was encouraged to hear minutes thehat the dutch and -- foreign minister of the netherlands and australia, they have had a meeting with president poroshenko. finally, the dutch were able to sign their agreement with the kiev authorities on the presence

of the investigators at the crash site. the combination of the signing of that agreement and the promise which we understand once again it was given to them on the end of fighting in the area that would allow the investigators to come to the site as quickly as possible. it would allow them to take care of the bodies, which remain there. and would allow them to collect the pieces and to launch the next stage of this very important investigation. churkin, thank you very much for the briefing. from cbs. there were u.s. intelligence that has shown information about rockets from russia going into the last few days.

they report president obama was going to share with the ukrainian government. information about the surface to air missiles. you have complained that there has not been, on the malaysian flight, there has not been any intelligence sharing. has there been? >> not we're are very open as he indicated. -- observers to the order crossings controlled by russia. after some procrastination from the ukrainians, and americans, the british, we see they are coming. we would be open to oecd using various technical the rest of the border in the investigation. contrast inrastic

the mode of operation. -- ourosing your operatives went public going giving all of the information we have. scrubbing out -- describing the operations are military had on the 17th of july. we are listing specific things that should be looked into in the course of the investigation. our ministry of defense listed 10 questions which need to be addressed. is in charge of investigations, and has enormous experience in that kind of investigation. whileing the experience they were investigating the 2001 incident when a russian airliner was shot down by ukrainian air force. areas which need to be looked into, for investigation. the one that we see from our

american colleagues is just the accusations and the conclusions without the sharing of evidence. we have seen that before, we will see that again. some unnamed people from u.s. intelligence community's show up and basically say that they know nothing. and the people who are there at the briefing, they do not give their names, they do not show their faces. they don't given him information except conclusions. your colleagues who emerge from that briefing completely bewildered about what kind of information of united states is relying on. while making these accusations. i'm not here to make any accusations, i'm here similar to reiterate that we want to have full and impartial international investigation. our experts are ready to participate, and i encourage that some of them are going to be included in that investigation.

we would like to make our expert input into such an investigation as possible. and we don't want anybody to interfere in that investigation. of course, he continued military activity by ukrainian forces in the area in the vicinity of the crash site is clearly not compatible with the resolution which the security council adopted on the 21st of august. generally speak, i hope you are following the news. ukrainian military activity in the area has exceeded all humanly imaginable limits. they are shelling with long-range artillery populated areas. civilians are dying by the dozen. you recall when their operation started we were assured by some members of the security council that they are going to act with restraint. i wonder what kind of definition of restraint they were guided by

? because what we see they were going after the civilian population, which justifies our description of the reaction as a punitive operation against the population. other than gauging whether other hopes might be in the area. this all amounts to a very ugly mode of operation, and very to the so-called peace plan of president poroshenko, and his assurances that the ukrainian military will not be engaging the civilian population. they are directly targeting the civilian population. populated areas, apartment buildings, hospitals, parks. the territory integrity of the country is not about the territory. it's about the people. if this is the mode of operation, in which give once to reunite ash -- which kiev wants

to you reignite -- reunite ukraine, as is going to have serious long-term, that -- concourses. >> thanks for the briefing. i wanted ask you, with this talk of the netherlands and australia deploying either unarmed or armed -- they keep changing. would this require some kind of action from the security council to authorize -- i wanted ask you this. there was a readout from the state department between the the call between kerry and surrey lavrov. they said there was a mutual cease-fire. what is your understanding -- did the u.s. supported cease-fire? what their messages in private to the ukrainians, it's a different story. what we've observed in the course of this crisis -- every time they have a visit from some american official or high-level

contacts, the ukrainians are intensifying the situation. last time, there was a phone conversation reported in the media and between vice president biden and president poroshenko. they went up another stage in escalating the conflict after that immediately. that watching tv coverage, and today they announced their calculation is that well over 1100 civilians have been killed in the conflict. but they will understand, finally. this is an extremely dangerous crisis, and extremely dangerous course of action. and they will give a proper kievl to the give -- authorities, they will have to listen. we know how much they depend on the advice of the united states and their political support.

on this other question -- we understand what the dutch and australians and malaysians are trying to do. we were supported from the outset, the moment they told us their intention was to send policeman along with the experts on the ground. we really supported that. to the extent that we told them we are prepared to pass the security council resolution right away. establishing such steps by the dutch and australians. they told us they first wanted to negotiate an agreement with the kiev authorities, which has logic behind it. but then in my view, the ukrainian started procrastinating. was it because their idea was to try and take over the site militarily? i don't know. it was only minutes ago that the dutch were able to sign this

agreement with ukrainians. and then, bizarrely, the kiev authorities told them we also need to ratify those agreements. you know what is happening in ukraine, the parliament was dissolved. are they going to reconvene the parliaments? i understand they're hoping to do that on thursday. quorumd have required for this kind of boat. to me it looks quite suspicious. kievt took so long for the authorities to negotiate this agreement with the dutch, and the dutch were trying extremely hard, along with australians. their foreign ministry was always somewhere on the ground negotiating with some ukrainian authorities. why does it have to take under such extruder circumstances, days to negotiate this agreement? i decided only after your and toents already --

sign it after only your parliament had artie been resolved -- already been resolved. to use any strong words, but it looks quite suspicious. your literary talent you will find the proper words to describe this behavior. i would really keep my judgments myself. >> thank you, ambassador. two questions. civilian planes fly over ukrainian territory before this week? and while the ukrainians are certainly messing up the next investigation on the crash site, why did not the separatists secure the crash site area, perhaps calling russia next -- experts to help them rather than to allow grave robbers to run all over the place? -- the messcured

that occurred before the security council would like let me say this. it is extremely emotional and tragic. is extremely emotional and tragic. let's not make it worse. i challenge you to give one example of grave robbers on the site. i think some of that isn't happening. i think this is not professional, speaking for journalists or even politicians. to resort to this type of language, especially in a situation where it is grave and tragic enough. why didn't they do that, why didn't they do this? so those may be very good questions. things happen under normal circumstances, people know how to deal with it. -- they haveurals procedures, the teams of people who are trained to do that. that was not the situation then. they did not have those experienced people.

they had people which were completely taken aback by circumstances. if there were some transgressions, that was their fault. they could have made better judgment of what to do, and what to do about the situation. they were told first not to touch the bodies or any thing else. the next day, they got complaints as to why the bodies were there on the ground. again, it may well be that many things were done wrong by some people. and we agreed, we accepted rather strong language in that resolution. on the other hand, let me remind you the return of the black boxes intact. and i have yet to see any proof of tampering of any evidence. goingin, i hope there is to be objective reporting of what is happening. and what may have happened on the ground. and why they invited or did not invite the russians?

if they did invite, then immediately there would be complaints that russia's tampering with evidence. you didn't ask you question yet, please go ahead. , mr. ambassador. i wanted to ask you something about the presidential statement. almostred whether in the months since you first circulated this, whether you have seen any evidence of i selling oil to finance their terrorist activities, either in syria or iraq. and as a second sort of minor question, i was just wondering why in the press statement the resolution 2044?

the resolution regarding the action in libya in march, condemning the illicit export of crude oil from libya and authorizing u.n. states to board suspect vessels. why was that taken out -- it was in the original statement and it was dropped? >> first of all, we had evidence before we compose that draft. trade of oil,d in that was one of the sources of their financing. to your last question, i will give you a frank answer. that's what took so long to produce this p.r.c.. discussions with united states. it was best to water it down. we would have preferred broader stronger statements, but for their own reasons, they were trying to water it down. this is what we came up with. even as it is, we think that

this is a good text. it is worthwhile for the security council to make that statement. please. >> ambassador, you have information about the and oilent of isis trade with partners. do you know any of these partners? >> i'm not prepared to talk about it now. >> i just want to follow-up on pam's -- >> once you grab the mic, go ahead. i wanted to follow up on pam's question regarding the reports and videos of shelling coming from the russian side of the border into ukraine. whether russia categorically denies those reports, and whether reports of preparations to possibly send it more across thessiles

border -- >> you have heard the statement coming from moscow. but i personally -- i wonder what i hear some of those accusations from some of our western colleagues. we hadber the last year, a treaty on the transfer and sales of conventional weapons, adopted here in new york. delegation inn the course of the negotiations was insisting on including a clause which would ban the supply of weapons to nonstate actors. that proposal was rejected by our western colleagues. why? they do it all the time it. they provide weapons to whoever they believe is a good recipient of those weapons for print -- political considerations of theirs, including syria. emotionally so

laming russia for doing things they themselves did not allow us to prohibit in an international treaty. on the specifics of it, you heard again the statements which are made in this regard. i have nothing to add. then, i urge you to look up press conference of sergei lavrov today, where he described ,t the proposals we are making and the possibilities we are open to come in terms of control by oec of whether or not there is arms flow between russia and ukraine. >> the french president just recently announced over a phone conversation, u.k., u.s., france, germany will take further measures against russia over the ukraine crisis. you have a reaction to that? >> we think it is wrong. russiawondering, given

's role in the middle eastern quartet, if you have any response -- or if you are reset aside -- satisfied with the response of tony blair and how he has responded to the crisis in gaza? and also you think the palestinians call for an international monitoring force in gaza? >> i'm not aware what kind of response tony blair came up with. he is not one of the key players under the circumstances. let me tell you that of course, we are disappointed with the kind of response the our national community was able to provide. we were able to adopt a document that i hope is useful. to my liking, it was too little too late. they could've come up with a stronger and better articulated response from the security council, even sooner.

russia was trying to make the work of the quartet more active. under the circumstances, we failed again for obvious reasons. for a long time, the united states has decided to go it quartetnd to keep the somewhere in the back of the room. to some extent, we are reaping the consequences of that policy. there's no talk about the disruption out of the united nations. dysfunctionality of the united states security council. the finger blankets pointed at the russians for obstructionism. the bending international laws for things like the annexation of crimea. >> i have to go to lunch. think every much. -- thank you very much.

>> also at the united nations in new york city today, u.s. secretary general ban ki-moon. he updated reporters about his middle east trip. he calls for israel and hamas to agree to a cease-fire. >> ladies and on, the secretary-general. gentlemen, the secretary-general. >> good morning. i'm about to brief the security council on the vital role of the regional delegation on the peacekeeping operations. before i do, i just wanted to update the current situation in the middle east. let me begin by reinforcing last night's call of the security council. calling for an immediate unconditional humanitarian

cease-fire. as you know, i issued a statement yesterday calling for a 24 hour extension of the humanitarian cease-fire. i did this morning, early this morning. for an immediate, unconditional humanitarian cease-fire in the name of humanity. the violence must stop. i just returned from the region. days, i course of six have extensive consultations with the leaders in the region in eight countries in the middle east. as well as u.s. secretary of state, john kerry. tirelessly working and valiantly to end the fighting. since my return during the weekend, i have continued with a

number of calls to world leaders, including prime netanyahu of israel. i had a long talk with him, urging him to stop this violence and agree in honor of the international community's common anort, and call for unconditional humanitarian cease-fire. gaza is in critical condition. missiles have pummeled gaza. hamas rockets have randomly struck israel. no country would accept the andat of rockets from above tunnels from below. at the same time, all occupying powers have an international legal obligation to protect civilians. i was equally disappointed that dangerous hostilities resumed on sunday, but since monday

evening, a relative and very hasile calm underground been established. pause in fighting brought a brief rest by two civilians. it also shows how much this is devastated the lives of people in gaza. we saw seemed indiscriminate destruction. some described it as a man-made hurricane. and whole neighborhood reduced blocks ofand rubble, flattened apartment buildings, scores of bodies. buried under mounds of twisted wreckage. the fighting has claimed well over 1000 palestinian lives. most of them civilians. hundreds of them children.

hamas rocket fire has claimed the lives of three israeli civilians. palestinian civilian deaths, and more than 200 injuries came as a result of an appalling assault on a u.n. school. we were sheltering families, women and children who had sought refuge from the fighting. ongoing hostilities have prevented the established -- establishing a response building. it is imperative to do so, and have accountability for these outliers of crime. indeed, there must be accountability and justice for crimes committed by all sides. on friday, i spoke with some of forstaff to thank them

their heroic work. one of our colleagues told me there is no save replacing gaza. -- no safer place in gaza. the people in gaza have nowhere to run, they are trapped and besieged on every area. every area is a civilian area. every home, every school, every refuge has become a target. the casualty and damage also raises serious concerns about proportionality. today more than 173,000 gazans are seeking protection in u.n. facilities. that means 10% of the entire population is sheltering under the red flag. -- under the u.n. flag. my call for israel and all parties to do vastly more to ensure the safety of these u.n.

sites, and the security of the people who have sought sanctuary there. israelis and palestinians have a responsibility to stop the fighting now. andtart the dialogue now, progress the root causes that will finally break this endless cycle of senseless suffering. that means securing peace through mutual respect, and then to the economic segregation of gaza, and nearly half-century of occupation. the suffering and siege conditions in gaza will only , furthercent civilians isolate israel, and power , andmist on all sides leave our world far less safe. that is why i continue to work the the president in -- palestinian president and other regional and global leaders to

deliver a piece that the israeli and palestinian people so desperately need and deserve. thank you. >> why is that that with all these efforts, there hasn't been a longer-term cease-fire? what is the obstacle? >> it's a matter of political will. humanity as show leaders. and palestinians. i particularly when they continue to fight, it's only the people, only the civilians who are being suffered and killed. firsts why i have been and foremost saying stop the fighting. then, sit down together. address all the root causes, put

all the root causes and underlying issues on the table. that is been my continuing message. very simple and continuing message. i'm repeating again. to see manyntinue people continue to be killed like this. why these leaders are making their people to be killed by others, it's not responsible. out to primeeached minister netanyahu several times, asking him to seize the violence immediately. thomas is the other party to the conflict. when you were in qatar, was there any effort made it to get you to meet with hamas political leader and to try and persuade him to engage in an immediate cease-fire? and if not, why not?

talking mainly to israeli prime minister and palestinian president. communication with hamas has been in direct. -- indirect. and turkishqatar governments. i have been continuously speaking with the emirate of qatar and the foreign minister, as well as the prime minister of turkey. even yesterday i was speaking with the turkish leaders. whatever the means of communication may be, it is important that both sides must stop. they should listen to the polls

and opinions from all the people around the world. by this time, all the world's people are deeply concerned about what is going on. about what they are seeing every day, the people being killed. it's an issue of humanity. an issue of compassionate leadership. as a leader, they should first take care of the lives of their own people. >> some of express criticism of this morning's presidential statement as the security council fiddling while rome burns. me the urgency you are pressing for an end to hostilities, and the expression of disappointment for the palestinian represented last night calling for resolution. why do not call for resolution? i should not have any comment on what the security council members have decided.

of course, everybody hopes and expected that the security council would take a resolution, which is it legally and politically binding. they've agreed to have a presidential statement. decision.e but i believe still, if the parties have a political will, whether it is residential statement or resolution, i think they can stop this violence. it's not a matter of what the format of this resolution. even before the security council has taken such action, many world leaders, including myself, has been appealing and urging the parties to stop the violence. that should have a moral voice.

with john kerry, the foreign minister of egypt, and the , weetary-general and myself may to join, and appeal. on friday evening. then, the should have been immediately respected. i was in qatar when i issue the extendable cease-fire. it was immediately respected. then the fighting began continuing. i issued already to statements, yesterday and today. i hope that together with the 's presidentncil

shall statement, i hope the parties will really honor and the joint efforts. the admission of israel that in fact, the shells by israel hit a school trade does that square the response ability, despite the insistence of his role -- of israel that there were rockets. why's it taking it so long to have this investigation concluded? although your people in gaza are telling you what has happened? it is your responsibility as the united nations to provide palestinians in a national -- international protection. can you address both points? >> minor standard concern. that is mine also.

that we haveern not been able to have a conclusive investigation yet because of a continuing situation. we were able to see firsthand the situation. it continued to have a conclusive results. happened. really that those urging perpetuates who have committed this attack should be brought to justice. the 2009, theber office was again shelled by that time israeli tanks. i went there myself. of theme, because

continuing violence, i was able to speak with our staff via video. i expressed my strong solidarity that the investigation would continue. thank you. >> secretary of state john kerry also spoke about the violence between israel and gaza today at the state department. he spoke about it during the release of a report on religious freedom. >> i just returned from having a conversation about ending the rocket and tunnel attacks against israeli civilians. and easing the suffering of innocent people.

in gaza, and israel, in the west bank. today, we are continuing to work toward establishing an unconditional humanitarian cease-fire, one that could honor the period that ends now and stop the fighting, allowing medicine and desperately needed supplies to gaza. and enable israel to address the threat that we fully understand, and which is real, the threat posed by tunnel attacks. and to be able to do so without having to resort to combat. that is what will come from a cease-fire. we believe the momentum generated by a humanitarian cease-fire is the best way to be able to begin to negotiate and find out if you can put in place a sustainable cease-fire, one that addresses all the concerns.

the long-term concerns as well. begin to talk about the underlying causes of conflict in gaza. they will not obviously be resolved in the context of a sustainable cease-fire discussion, but it is important to build and begin and to move in a process. that is what we are trying to achieve. that is the only way, ultimately, this conflict is going to be resolved. hopefully, if we can make some progress, the people in this region, who deserve peace, can take one step towards that elusive goal, by stopping the violence which catches innocents on all sides in the crossfire. and begin to try to build a sustainable way forward. we also believe that any process

to resolve the crisis in gaza and a lasting and meaningful way must lead to the disarmament of hamas and all terrorist groups. we will work closely with israel and regional partners and the international community in support of this goal. we continue to have these discussions. our discussions, over there, succeeded in putting a 24-hour humanitarian cease-fire in place. then, as the rollover time for that occurred, regrettably, there were misunderstandings about 12 hours versus 24, 4 hours versus 24. we're trying to work hard to understand of these issues can be clarified in a way that allow the parties to allow israel, the palestinian authority, the other countries involved --

working through the egyptian initiative, to be able to find a way to silence the weapons long enough to be able to begin to negotiate. >> the house of representatives reconvenes at 2:00 eastern. the house will debate 16 bill today, including one illuminating a requirement that airlines include all taxes and fees in the advertised rice of airfare. another strengthening sanctions against north korea. leader in the week, the house will debate a republican resolution authorizing a lawsuit against president obama over the 2010 health care law. the house is live, here on c-span. over on c-span two at 2:00, the u.s. senate comes in the session. senators will vote on several nominations today. later the week, bill to extend funding for highway and mass

transit projects. while we wait for the house to come in the session, the conversation from this morning's washington journal on the the israeli and palestinian conflict. >> we are back with the policy fellow for the middle east at the brookings institution. diplomacylic specialist here to talk about the role of other countries in the region. let's begin with the two central parties here. as begin with hamas. what is there and game. -- let's begin with hamas -- what is there and game -- and game? >> we're pretty much trapped. there's been so much loss of civilian life. they need to go back to their constituency, to the palestinian people and say this was worth it. your lives are going to improve.

and that is how they can come claim it some degree of victory. i would say is the most important components. they also want to be able to build popular support, not just in gaza, but also in the west bank. there are two key theaters here. hamas has gained in that respect over the last two weeks, growing sentiment and support of hamas's position, certainly on the west bank. hamas? is the future of what are they hoping to gain at the end. you outline that. what is their future? >> the future is certainly difficult in the sense of israel is not willing to reconcile -- to hamasmas's being a dominant player in the palestinian scene. and that's why the faction of announcedn president

a unity government, and israel was very concerned about that and opposed that. question is how you normalize hamas, or bring them into the political process? and that has been a big elephant in the room for such a long time it. even when you have un-sponsored peace negotiations. -- those aree designated as a terrorist organization. the other option would be to eradicate hamas. we have seen time and time again that that's not really possible. embedded inply palestinian society, in terms of social services, parallel institutions. they have mass support. not a majority, but a significant portion of the population. you cannot really eradicate a group like that altogether.

that is why it becomes such a dilemma. eradication does not work. normalizing hamas is also very sensitive and controversial, considering their status. host: who then is negotiating with whom right now? guest: that has been one of the challenges in trying to get this cease-fire. there is not one actor who can mediate between the two protagonists in this battle. hamas and israel. they obviously are not going to talk directly to each other. the changing status of egypt is a critical part of this as well. egypt, under the muslim brotherhood president mohamed morsi, in 2012-2013, was very sympathetic to hamas because hamas is effectively the palestinian branch of the muslim brotherhood. with the military coup in egypt, you have a new government that is very antagonistic toward hamas.

in some ways, egypt wants to see hamas destroyed even more than israel does. egypt can no longer really play the role of effective mediator. they cannot be an honest broker. the funny thing is that when the cease-fire proposal last week first came out, hamas was complaining that they were not even consulted. they heard about it in the media. egypt has not been able to effectively bring the suit tie -- two sides together. that is why you have qatar and turkey, which support hamas to one degree or another, more involved in the cease-fire negotiation. israel does not trust them. you have these different potential mediators, but there is a real question about credibility and trust the twin the various sites that are trying to talk to each other. host: how does qatar in turkey support hamas?

and why? why have they chosen to be on the side of hamas in these negotiations? guest: qatar and turkey -- we can look at it as if there is an arab cold war. there are various sides. you have the pro-u.s., western orbit if you will. that would include saudi arabia, jordan, the uae, israel as part of that to some extent. on the other hand, you have qatar and turkey which lean toward hamas and more generally the muslim brotherhood and mainstream islamist actors throughout the region. turkey and qatar are still u.s. allies but have try to carve out a more independent approach to foreign policy, were sometimes they ally with actors who do not get along with the u.s. at the start of the arab spring, they seemed to be on the ascendancy that we were seeing the rise of islamist parties

throughout the region, most prominently in egypt, with the rise of the brotherhood and mohamed morsi. you have seen a shift over the past year and a half for these islamist groups have entered into a kind of decline. turkey and qatar have been more isolated and the tension between them and the saudi's and the egyptians on the other hand has gotten worse. that is the arab cold war i am pointing to. that is why it is such a fractious atmosphere in the middle east now. that is why it is so hard to get things done. it is so hard to have effective negotiation. host: where is the arab league in all of this? guest: it is no longer really an effective actor.

there was hope early on in the arab spring that the arab league would come to the fore and play a more assertive, independent role. again, the arab league is a product of the various arab actors. the saudi's and the egyptians are now back in the drivers seat when we we talk about the broader arab world and there is not an interest in having the arab league being an independent actor. it has become subsumed under saudi and egyptian priorities in the region. host: the arab leaders are one thing in these different countries. what about the arab people in these countries? do we know what they are saying? even via social media? about the situation? guest: we generally know that there is broad arab sympathy for the palestinian cause.

this has always been one of the primary open wounds in the middle east, the one thing that unifies different arab populations together. for the most part, they do not agree on a whole lot. there are a couple of things. opposition to u.s. policy to one extent or another. dislike or hatred of israel. and support for the palestinian people. that does not necessarily means support for hamas as a political actor. sometimes those two things get blurred. i don't think people are putting a lot of the blame on hamas or most of it because they see israel as the primary problem here. when people are dying in very large numbers in gaza, they are going to blame the more powerful party. that is israel in this case and israel has used disproportionate force. what we are seeing now and what arab leaders have to be concerned about is a gap between what arab governments are saying and doing and the kind of anger and sympathy that you see on the popular level.

that is where the egyptian authorities have to be careful because there -- they seem to be closer to israel than hamas. the longer the conflict goes on, more egyptians are going to be asking, why isn't our leadership taking a stronger stand in support of the palestinian people? host: what do you think could be the follow-up from that? guest: i don't think it will translate into any major destabilization for the egyptian government. it just means that the level of dissatisfaction and dissolution is going to grow. that does not mean that president -- the president does not have to worry about that right now, but in terms of how he is trying to position himself as egypt's new president, those initial impressions are going to stay and could solidify over time and that could start to be a major liability for him on the domestic scene, especially if the economy does not improve.

i think that especially as we americans try to understand -- i think people ask sometimes, well more syrians, multiple times more syrians have been killed, not just over the past couple years, but over the past couple weeks, and those massacres have not gotten as much attention -- people ask and understandably so, what about syria? what about iraq? more muslims and arabs are being killed there. outside observers need to understand that palestine has a kind of emotional connection, just because of the history. it is also kind of metaphor for arab helplessness. arabs look to this and say, this is a kind of usurper, this outside power israel, they have come in and they have humiliated arabs and the palestinians in particular, time and time again.

for men arab perspective, that is how we have to understand it -- from an arab perspective, that is how we have to understand it. it signifies this ongoing humiliation. that is why it is able to rally these groups together. host: the un security council demands a humanitarian cease-fire in gaza. it had a midnight meeting to approve this resolution. it would allow for the delivery of urgently needed assistance. do they wield much influence? guest: the u.n. is an important player in terms of how they can set the town and try to bring -- tone and try to bring different groups together. they can try to put international pressure on israel and hamas. obviously, they have limitations in terms of any binding authority.

the israelis have historically not trusted the u.n., particularly on this issue, simply because they see that there is a kind of anti-israel sentiment on the part of the general assembly. the 50-plus majority nations tend to have a more anti-israel approach. we should not overstate its importance. at the end of the day, it has to be players like the u.s., that actually have pull with the israelis. that is why the u.s. remains a critical actor. we can talk about america's to climb, but at the end of the day, the israelis don't trust the europeans as much. they are not going to trust their arab and middle eastern neighbors as much. the u.s., even though there is more and more tension between the u.s. and israel now, the u.s. is still israel's strongest supporter and strongest ally in the international community. it is very hard to envision any kind of successful resolution without the u.s. putting its skin in the game and exerting pressure.

host: let's get to a couple phone calls and then we will show you what the debate looks like on the sunday talk shows. stephen in shelbyville, indiana. caller: good morning. you are looking fine this morning. you did a fine job. i have a question about the blockades that nato does. is that what stirs up everything? host: the blockades. is that what stirs up everything? guest: the humanitarian situation in gaza has been quite bad for quite a long time. there was a previous cease-fire in november 2012. there was an expectation that after that, there would be an easing of goods and services blockades. that did not really pan out. since hamas was elected in the 2006 elections and when they were able to control gaza and push five to -- fata out, gaza

has been in a difficult situation. you have not really seen an improvement in living standards. there is not really any light at the end of the tunnel. that is the basic structural problem here. when you have a very small piece of territory and gaza is pretty small, it is called the gaza strip for a reason, when you have 1.8 million people who are packed into that very small space, it becomes such an incubator for militancy, for radicalism. if people don't have hope and a better life, they are more likely to see resistance. by that we mean some kind of military opposition to israel as the only way to improve their situation.

that is also has hamas was seeing things in the lead up to this conflict. they were in a week is asian. -- weak position. a were not able to point and say things are getting better. when you are in that kind of week situation, that situation of desperation, you are more likely to move aggressively and do things you otherwise might not do. host: 50% unemployment i read in the newspaper last week. hamas is unable to pay their 40,000 government workers leading up to the situation. how is hamas spending the money at it has from its allies in the region? did they not spend it on the people of gaza? and instead on the military efforts? guest: this is one of the big concerns. that hamas was diverting resources that could be used to improve the lives of people to

build gaza and invest in the things that can actually make a difference on the ground level. much of that funding, it is hard to say how much exactly, went to the building of this sophisticated tunnel network to replenishing their military arsenal and the rockets. the problem with hamas is that it is trying to be two things at once, a governing entity and political party, but also a militant faction that uses violence to advance political ends. those two priorities come into conflict and that is also mirrored in the very structure of hamas as an organization. you have the political wing on one hand and the military wing of hamas and you are seeing signs of increasing tension. you have hamas leaders in exile and hamas leaders inside of gaza. you have an insight-outside tension. hamas is trying to appeal to

various constituencies all at once. that can kind of lead to internal contradictions. it is fair to say that hamas, it has put, we have to be honest about this, it has put civilians in harm's way. it has kind of intermingled the civilian and military aspects inside of gaza itself. they are firing rockets from civilian areas. that is why we cannot see hamas as a traditional state that has an army and fight its wars and battles in the conventional military sense. we are talking about asymmetrical warfare, where they are essentially within the civilian population and you cannot really have a hard and fast separation between the civilian and military components. host: shadi hamid is a policy fellow at the brookings institution.

here with us for another 20 minutes or so. we will go to jim in south carolina. a republican caller. caller: regarding this whole concept of disproportionate force, do you think that our american forces should up approach the taliban differently, to make things more fair? is that the same kind of analogy? host: do you ask that because you see a contradiction? caller: sure. people are bringing up, for the people bringing up the fact that israel is using disproportionate force, they should question whether we use disproportionate force and whether we should fight our wars differently and whether we would be willing to suffer more casualties like they think israel should to make things quote unquote fair. host: what do you think?

guest: it has been well-documented that the u.s. did use disproportionate force in many instances. whether in iraq or afghanistan. those criticisms are nothing new or particularly original. i would say that it is hard to make comparisons when the context is so completely different. when we look at israel's offensive in gaza, we see whole blocks, entire neighborhoods leveled. you can target hamas fighters and that is justified. does that mean that if you have one hamas fighter in a room and there are 10 civilians in that same room or that same building, does that mean you go ahead and risk the loss of 10 civilian lives to get that one hamas fighter? that is where there has to be more care in determining whether these kinds of attacks on apartment blocks or buildings go ahead.

is it worth the civilian life? that is what has been so problematic. israel's incentive structures are misaligned. essentially what israel is trying to do is convince the gazans and hamas that it is not worth it. if they pummel gaza enough, next time around, hamas will think twice. the us is the kind of strategy of disproportionate deterrence that israel has been using. that explains part of the reason why we see such a massive use of force. the only way deterrence works is if you convince the other actor that the costs are simply too high. host: let's listen to what the prime minister of israel had to say on the sunday talk shows. he was asked what is next on "state of the union." [video clip] >> obviously, we hope we can get

a sustainable quiet as soon as [video clip] >> obviously, we hope we can get a sustainable quite as soon as possible. adopt an agreement that has no conditions, except thatdress -- a cease-fire addresses all underlying issues, security for israel, which means miller to rising -- militarizing gaza. >> you can to the rest of this conversation online at c-span.org. live now is the u.s. house is gaveling in for legislative business. the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the prayer will be offered by our chaplain, father conroy. chaplain conroy: let us pray. dear god, we give you thanks for giving us another day. as we begin the final week before the august recess, we give you thank