more precisely. host: and todd akin talks about it in his book firing back. appreciate you joining us this morning. guest: john, thank you very much and best wishes to all your listeners. host: up next, crystal williams talks about capital hill. first, all weekend long on book tv and on american history tv, we look at the places and people that our c-span cities tour producers have looked at in 2014. we'll take you to jackson, mississippi where we go to the home of medgar evars to learn about his life and his death today at noon.

host: crystal williams joins us now. after a busy week after dealing with the situation on the border in congress, i want to start with this plan that was passed last night by house republicans and get your reaction. guest: yeah. well, the house passed it and that's the beginning and end of it. the funding is, first of all, inadequate and second of all in the wrong place. it's basically military and law enforcement funding in response to a humanitarian situation and that just seems very misplaced. what it doesn't do is provide adequate funding to take care of the children while they're waiting for their hearings. nor does it provide adequate funding to provide the hearing.

congress has already starved the immigration court system of resources and with this additional strain on the court system, it's going to starve its all the more. so it's just wrong funding. and then on top of the wrong funding is wrong policy. there is a statute in place, the trafficking statute from 2008 that provides appropriate protections for children and last night's bill would essentially strip those protections from the children. and then on top of that, tells the president that he can't take care of and he can't attend to the immigration status of the people who are here and have been here for many, many years who came here as children many years ago. so it's just a completely inappropriate piece of legislation. it's political theater and nothing more and nothing less. host: what is the right amount

of funding needed here? has your group supported any of the bills that have been discussed? guest: the fact is, we find all the bills to be wrong funded. probably the president's bill is the closest to adequate funding but recognize that congress is probably not going to allocate that amount of money. the senate had another money that we think allocated a little bit wrong but that also went nowhere. host: so what does the immigration lawyers association do? guest: we're an organization of about 13,000 lawyers around the world who represent clients in the field of immigration law. so, for example, going to the border, a number of our members are actually volunteering at the border now trying to represent some of the children who are

being put into removal proceedings right now. otherwise, they represent families, individuals, companies who are trying to navigate our very, very complicated immigration system. host: a complicated system that some immigration lawyers have criticized for years-long backups before decisions are made. but in the wake of some of these recent proposals, also criticisms of decisions that also come too quick. what is your comments on the process and proper screening? guest: it depends on the individual situation. in some cases, a quick move through is all it is because the person is removable. but in a number of cases, particularly with what we're seeing right now, there needs to be time to develop the case, to get the evidence, to

elicit the story. what we find, you interview, particularly children, the first questions you ask the child, they're going to be telling you what they think you want to hear and also what they -- and often what they think you want to hear is not the fact of the case that would enable them to get protection in the united states. you have to build trust. once you do that and once you get their story, their story alone is not enough. it won't get you far in court. in order to establish a case for, say, asylum in court, you need to get the evidence to back up the story of what they said. and usually when a gang has threatened your life, they don't leave a paper trail. so it takes some time to put that together. so usually it's going to be several months to finally put together a case so the standard in some of the immigration courts around the country, five years, three years, that's ridiculously wrong

and that's the evidence of the system starved for resources, but 21 days is not enough. >> and you said part of the process is ensuring that every child has a lawyer to represent them in the proceedings. how would that work and how much would that cost just to do that component? guest: it probably -- the president had asked for $15 million for representation. it probably would cost about double that. but in addition, it's not just paying lawyers. there's a lot of volunteer lawyers already working on this. there are nonprofit organizations that can leverage the skills of other lawyers. so it's not just about paying lawyers thousands of dollars. host: we're talking with crystal williams with the --

over recent weeks on this issue. we'll start with catherine calling in from new york. good morning. >> good morning. you know, i want to go direct to who's funding, it's going to be the taxpayer's money to fund these lawyers and everything else. but the thing, you know, who is giving this money to these people to come over? okay. because i know that a lot of them tried to find out, a lot of the groups, they get to be involved in it and they get the money from the nations, from tv stations, radio stations, spanish channels, and they send them money over there to have

these kids come over. so you should investigate that. host: anything that your group has lookd into? guest: what we do find is there's a whole network of smugglers. and a lot of what has happened in central america is that the smugglers have been telling families that if you go now, if you get to the united states by the end of june, that you can get a permiso to stay in the united states. so if you pay me $5,000, i can get your child to the united states and he'll be allowed to stay. and so there is a whole criminal network in the countries that the children are coming from that are exploiting the fear that's going on there by telling them, oh, pay me and i'll come. where the money comes from, that's the annual income for a lot of the families that have sent people here and they're saving the money, getting the money from their own families.

some of those family members are here in the united states and they're wiring the money home. they've been working hard here in the united states or they have been working hard in their home countries or other countries, but they are scraping the money together because they are viewing this as their children's future, mistakenly in a lot of cases. host: this is from twitter, what about funding from the countries to deal with the problems that the kids are running from. guest: that was actually a big part of the president's budget, supplemental request, and that is extremely important because what is going on in all three countries that are the main sending countries is extreme violence and the government's inability to control the violence. and that, first and foremost, is the best cure for this. interestingly enough, nicaragua, we're not seeing children and families coming

here from nicaragua, yet, nicaragua is the poorest country in central america. in fact, they're going -- many are going to nicaragua. and the reason is that nicaragua does not have the crime and violence that honduras, el salvador, and ecuador are seeing. so there needs to be some level of care and attention given to controlling the crime in the three countries that they're seeing this from. host: good morning, burt. guest: okay. my question was i wanted to know who was funding all these illegal aliens be they children or grownups coming across the board. i would like to know why don't you think the money is sufficient to lawyer up

all these people because, you know, when you're illegal and you've already broken the laws and you've already come into the country. why don't they call them illegal aliens as they always have until lately, until the democrats got ahold of the problems. now they want to call them undocumented immigrants. host: can i ask you, when you ask whether the money is sufficient, are you talking about the house bill from last night. >> house bill from last night. the democrats and the liberals always want more money but when you talked with the guest in the last hour -- in the hole already. host: ms. williams. guest: well, the fact is, we can't just pretend this isn't happening. we can't just say here are a bunch of children and we're not going to do anything with them. we've got to address them. it's not a simple matter.

we have treaty obligations. we have obligations as human beings to take care of children who we find within our border. and the interesting part of all of this is most of these children and families who have been coming in, they're not sneaking in. they are coming to the border and saying here i am. they are presenting themselves. they're turning themselves in. in fact, they are trying to follow the law as they understand it. and they think that by coming across the border and turning themselves in, that is what the system is. and the fact is they're here. we can't just say, oh, go back across the border. they're children, they're fairly helpless, and they're running away from compelling situations. this is our moment as americans. this is our m.s. st. louis when in

1939 america turned away a ship of jewish refugees. a quarter of those people died on that ship back to europe. so shameful in america's history. we can't send children back and watch them die and call them a good christian nation. this is our motion and we have to step up to it. host: one place where i understand you wouldn't support a lot of funding is new detention efforts. you have a piece in the hill newspaper saying help not detention is needed in the border where you say that children and families should not be detained except in rare circumstances. can you explain in guest: detention from a fiscal point of view is a bad use of resources. it costs much more money to detain somebody than to

release somebody. 92 percent of people who have attorneys turn up for hearings. so if you release someone who has an attorney, that's a better way to get them to their hearing. host: what about those who do not have lawyers and are detained? guest: we don't know yet because that's still in the works. obviously those who are deta detained, obviously they're there. in new mexico, there are 700 people detain there had in basically a make shift situation. the officers there are doing the best they can with very little but the fact is it's not sustainable. people there are getting sick. it's, like, a school but imagine living there. and once one child is sick, 700 children are sick. host: so where do you put these people if not detain them? guest: the fact is most have been released to family and to foster care or to shelters which

are not detention centers but are shelters that often are run by churches. there are other places that they can go. and, in fact, many of the children have been sent to exactly those places. host: cathy is up next from montgomery texas on our line for republicans. good morning >> good morning. a responsible government keeps order in their country. this is why people issue passports. people like you and barack obama are allowing this invasion and you know the 2008 law is being abused. and let me tell you something else, why don't you tell all you liberals who love all of these illegals who are taking all of us sick by the way coming in here illegally, set up some tents inside of the white house, you and barack and

everybody else go feed them and educate them. we don't want to do that anymore. guest: obviously the caller feels very strongly. first of all, the children are not making us sick. they're children. yes, they're going to get some childhood illnesses, but your child that you send to summer camp is going to get the same illnesses from summer camp. again, we have an obligation as human beings to take care of the people who seek help. and call me liberal for wanting to care for children. i'll wear the badge proudly. and i do not understand the hatred that is pouring out for people who are just trying to escape a bad life, who are trying to escape violence and are trying to find something better. host: crystal williams is the

executive director of the american immigration lawyers association here to talk to us about the situation at the border and recent legislation that has been moved. you can check them out i don't know line at aila.org. on the line, we have joyce from florida. good morning. >> good morning. first i'd like to say good morning, ms. williams. i think that you are doing a terrific job in caring about these children. and for someone who get on the phone and holler about their country, this world belongs to god and we're supposed to look out for everyone and if the problem is the children coming over here, then maybe the united states needs to go over there and see what's going on in their country to make things better for them there where they won't

have to come over here. maybe we need to actually look at some other opportunities for these children because they are kids and they need help. we call ourselves the greatest country that ever is, then why do we have so many problems helping these kids. this world don't owe to anyone. it belongs to god and we're supposed to show mercy and compassion to all mankind. guest: thank you. i couldn't agree more. most of the people that our members are working with are home sick already. they don't want to leave their homes. it's just that they feel forced to leave their homes. and what we can do for them in their homes would be so much better than trying to deal with it after the fact. really, that region needs to be stabilized.

those governments need to be stabilized, and crime needs to be gotten under control in what's calmed the northern triangle, the three countries we're seeing the influx from. host: peg has a question specifically about arizona. why did arizona turn away attorneys who volunteered for the help with the process? guest: i'm not familiar with that situation. host: okay. here's a question from twitter. can the guest comment on how many of the migrants do not want to be citizens and what should the u.s. do with them? guest: i don't think anyone is even talking about citizenship at this point. they're just trying to find re -- refuge. for them to become citizens, they have to get a lawful status in the united states first and keep that status for five years. and our laws are very

restrictive as to who has that status and who can get it. what congress should have passed last night is immigration reform so the system works better so people who want to contribute and can contribute and have ties to the united states are able to get legal status and eventually become citizens. this is really no way to run an immigration system, what we have right now. host: jim is up next from florida. good morning. >> good morning. okay. my question is, it's an honor to speak to this beacon of compassion. if she could just hear me out and maybe answer when i'm done. first of all, why am i wrong? i feel like this is just a work project for you attorneys. it's in your interest to take long. what percentage of these children are actually children under 14? how much did you make last year?

how much did you personally make last year off of this? and why can't i just look at you as opposed to an ambulance chaser, you're just an immigrant chaser. guest: first of all, i want to point you to a group of lawyers in new mexico right now who paid their own way down there, are putting up in hotels that they're paying for themselves and have spent the last week working 12 hours a day for free representing all of the -- trying to represent all of the detain knees in that detention center. i want to point you to a big law firm, jones day, took 20 of their lawyers away from their corporate clients and donated them to representing children in texas. i want to

show you attorneys who work for close to nothing in order to represent families and children seeking a better life. immigration lawyers are among the lowest paid lawyers in the united states. but they work and do the work they do out of passion and compassion in many, many cases. never has there been a situation as critical as this where immigration lawyers have stood up. we've had over 600 volunteers to give their time for free to pay their own way to these detention centers in order to represent the people there. so don't tell me that immigration lawyers are making a lot of money out of this. it is quite the opposite. host: american immigration lawyer's association is online at aila.org. we'll go to mississippi with mary. good morning. >> hello. i would just like to find out, i think it's the whole

scenario is very strange. first of all, where do these people who come from the so-called poorest countries in the world get $5,000? okay. another thing. what kind of decent parents would put their very small, young children on a train, unprotected, and send them over? and you see these poor kids in the detention centers crying. i think they're crying for their parents. another thing is i believe that somebody else, some other system, some other entity paid, if the money was there, legitimately paid for those kids to come over here. their timing is very odd. host: several questions in there. guest: yes. go to a western union office anywhere where there's a high level of

immigrant population and you will see people who are here working who are wiring money every penny they can gather back to their families. a lot of the money is coming from the people who are picking onions in georgia, picking toe tomatoes in alabama, building houses in florida, nannys taking care of american children here sending that money back in order to pay to get their children or relatives to the united states or at least get them out of those countries. people who have been working their whole lives in honduras, nicaragua saving every penny just as american families save to send their children to college, these families are saving to send their children to safety. when you hear about somebody who has

been told join the gang, carry these drugs for me or i will kill your child, you're going to put your child on that train. that train is safer for your child than your home. it's heart breaking for the child, the parent. and when you hear these stories, when you talk to the children, you understand what it is they have run from. it is inconceivable in america what these folks are running from and coming here to escape. host: we have about 15 minutes left with crystal williams. robert is calling in from charleston, south carolina. good morning. >> i'd like to say i did watch the committee's report and i'm disgusted. okay. what a shamble. that was totally 150

percent lip service. twice, the aides had to give people to the people who were supposed to know the bill so they wouldn't keep digging their hole deeper and digging themselves out. that was disgraceful. first of all, the bill has no chance of passing. the senate has already gone home. what a disgrace. host: are you talking about the rules hearing yesterday? >> yes. host: okay. go ahead. >> they were supposedly supposed to pass immigration reform. what a joke. when their aides knew more about the bill that they changed three times during the committee. i just -- i'm ashamed. host: ms. williams. guest: political theater. unfortunately, our congress is broken. and the result is the

fiasco that we've seen in the last two days in the house. a broken political system. i would have laughed if it weren't for shameful, if the results were not so horrible. congress has got to get to work. and they have to work positively and constructively. every so often, there's a glimmer that perhaps they can do that. then they run for cover. they let the most extreme sides of their parties dictate as they did last night and they could because they knew that this irresponsible bill would never become law so they could be as irresponsible as they wanted to be and get away with it. i'm embarrassed for my nation over what's gone on the last two days in the house. host: one thing you proposed is

provide a lawyer for each child moving through this process. how much does having a lawyer affect this process? some recent stats from the wall street your honjournal says tha children who are apprehended at the border in 2013, just 1600 were physically removed from the u.s. so how much more of a difference would having a lawyer make? guest: well, in this situation where the administration is determined to remove as many of these children as they can, another shapeful moment, the fact is having a lawyer can make all the difference in the world. there is a nonprofit legal organization in texas who has interviewed 500 of the children and they found of those 500 children, 63 percent, nearly two-thirds have a basis in law for getting protection here in

the united states. and if they can get them to an attorney, every time they have referred a child to an attorney, they've had 98 percent success rate in getting legal protection for the child. and it's not because the attorneys have anything magic up their sleeves. it's because the attorneys have experience in getting the children's stories out. and then taking those stories and showing how they fit into the provisions of the law. they -- the treatise on immigration law is about this thick. it's a very complicated set of laws and at least half of that is discussing the kinds of protections that would be available to children. but children, laymen, can't understand it. you really need an attorney to explain it and to put the facts in the law. host: all right. milo is on the line. good morning. >> good morning. yes, i got a question for the lady. and i --

i used to be a liberal so i do understand some things that go on. but i would like to know, you absolutely went right over the question that the one lady called in about. i just want to ask you straight up, have you hea heard -- gathering money and sending it to these people or not. you talk about disgraceful. you went over it. host: let's let crystal williams jump in guest: i'm sorry. i did not hear that part of the question. i have not heard that at all. maybe they're gathering money to help the children. but i can assure you that they would not be funding the movement of migrants. that is not what they do. i know this organization. i know it well. they are trying

to take care of the people who are here, getting them clothes, food, shelter. that's what we all should be doing. that's what our churches are doing. host: we have a special line as we did earlier this morning for those in border states. houston, texas is next. annie is waiting. >> good morning, sir. i'm going to have a heart attack listening to this woman. i don't understand you, ma'am. first off -- host: are you still with us? we lost annie. if you want to call back, we'll get your question. we now will go to john from gulfport, mississippi. good morning. >> good morning. thank you very much for c-span. and i'd like

to say to the lady there, how she can sit there and talk and be so -- and not shed tears. is just beyond me how so many people can be so ill to our kids. i'm 83 years old. retired from the military. and i've seen a lot in a lot of places and surely, surely we can do better down there to support texas. thank you very much. guest: i shed tears every night. i have never seen in my

35 years in this field, i have never seen a situation like this. and it is heart breaking what the children are going through, what these families are going through, what they have been through, and what they face is appalling. and that's why i feel strongly that we as a nation are obligated to provide shelter for those who are in trouble, for those who are fleeing violence and crime. host: we showed our viewers earlier in our program some of the members on the floor during the debate yesterday and last night. one more i want to show you tom cole, republican from oklahoma talking on the floor asking members to step back and look at the realities of the situation on the border. here's what he had to say. >> i think we need to step back from the emotion a moment and

look at the realities of the situation. number one, anybody that seeks refew gee status in the united states can go to any of the embassies in their country and request it. they don't have to travel here. number two, the president of the united states has said the vast majority of these children will be returned. that's not us. that's the president. he has said that. we're trying to do it and in an expeditious way because we think sooner is better. three, we're not returning them to the criminals. we're returning them to the custody of their government, their officials who are probably better suited to make these decisions than we are a thousand plus miles away. so let's be real. nobody is stripping rights away from anyone. we actually have a law from 2008 where a loophole is being

exploited by criminals and we're trying to stop that and discourage people from giving thousands of dollars of their hard-earned money to criminal cartels to participate in that. that's the effort that's underway here. nobody would have fewer rights than people that are currently here from mexico or canada. you would still have the ability to adjudicate issues. the process would be faster. host: your response to those comments. guest: actually, i have the greatest respect for mr. cole. i think that he has a good heart. but he's made some factual errors there. first of all, you cannot just go to an embassy and get refuge. that's not how the system works. one

thing that our administration has started and needs to do more of is starting just now refugee processing in those countries. up until this moment, that has not taken place at all. so that's a good first step. but the presumption that any one of the people who come here could have just gone to the embassy and asked for refugee status is not how it works. second of all, yes, the president has said that the majority will be sent back and i have to argue with the president on that, with both mr. cole and the president. if the law works the way the law should, if we follow the law, i'm not even talking about the 2008 act. if we follow our asylum provision, most of the children will obtain refuge here

in the united states. that is not a loophole. that law was written intentionally to give protection to the children and make sure they get a fair hearing. that is what that law was for. and it was written at a time where we were not in distress over migration. it was written at a time when people were thinking dispassionately. this is the moment that, that law should be in effect and is in effect and it should not be gutted when we need it most. host: i also want to get your reaction to the front page of the washington post. ideas could legalize millions. one number cited in there is that the number could reach as high as 5 million. i know details of this are still coming out, this just being heard from law makers and groups that work for the president. what do we know about this? guest: we know they are looking at what they can do legally with

a broken congress trying to act while congress is broken. and there is a great deal of leverage -- of discretion that the executive branch has to do a great number of things. many of the things that they can do are not big. they are small but they're incrementally can build up. but there are also larger things they can do. will they do the larger things? i don't know. this administration has tended to when given a choice of immigration to go big or go small has tends to go small. i hope that they're looking at that as a model for doing something to help many who really do need protection and help in the united states. host: we'll try to get to as many of your calls as we can.

julie is in new york. good morning. >> good morning. i was just -- i have a few questions. the first main one is why are we spending so much money shipping them all the way up to, like, up state new york? i think that's -- if they're just here temporarily, they should not be shipd that far away from the border itself. also, why aren't we showing this kind of compassion for veterans, homeless people here, why can't we focus on that? thank you. guest: it's not an either or. we should be showing compassion and help for our veterans, homeless, unemployed. but we also has the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth have an obligation to assist children and those seeking refugees.

refugees from syria are going to jordon and other countries that do not have our weather or power. and they're taking them in. actually sending them around the country spreads out where they're being held. takes advantage of different communities. doesn't concentrate people into one area. and remember if they wind up being deported, it's not like they're going to be put on a bus and sent across the border. they have to be sent back to a country that they have to fly to meaning they are going to have to fly to anywhere. so really keeping them by the border where facilities are limited doesn't make sense. this really, oddly enough, is one of the most cost effective things that can be done which is to send smaller groups out to different areas of the country. host: connie from new jersey is

next. good morning. >> good morning. i want to ask the lady something that really bothers me. we have many nationalities of spanish people, myself, i'm from spain. and the lady said before in 40 something years never heard something like this. i remember quite well when the cubans came here. now, what bothers me and i don't understand this and we have senator cruz who's father came from cuba in 1967. we have rubio from florida in the same situation. we have i don't know how many cubans in florida in the house of representatives. and i guess the children, when they came with their parents, their dogs, and whatever you

name, they went on social security. they get all the benefits as citizens and they keep their mouths shut and rubio and cruz want to throw them out? it's something that i don't understand and i want this lady, could you please explain to me this? guest: you raise an excellent point. i remember -- i don't remember them, i was a child at the time, but i do know of the flights from cuba where parents put their children on a plane and sent them to the united states hoping they would find homes and a better place in the united states. and many of those children are now in the u.s. government. many of them, some of them are sitting in congress. there was a very similar situation, as you note, years ago from cuba. and most

of -- just ironically, politically, most of the cuban refugees from that era are now prominent republicans. and i don't understand understand why they are opposing doing for central america what was doing for them several decades ago. host: we have debra. >> good morning. the issue is we have laws that need to be followed and what we're doing is supporting criminals. we are giving them money to get these children here. i don't know if you listened to all of the hearings. i have. i've also listened to the hearings of some of these children, so-called children who are mostly teenagers. all i heard was

complaints, complaints about being cold, complaints about the food, complaints about their living. i saw some of their living conditions. they're certainly far better than many of our homeless, our foster children. we need to stop this foolishness. it's not about a lack of compassion. it's a lack of following the rules. host: ms. williams. guest: i'm going to refer you again to that big treatise on immigration law. there are judges from one district to another who disagree with what that law says. there are immigration lawyers who go to our conferences and spend days arguing about what that law says. that law is so complicated. the problem is nobody knows how to follow the law. the law is difficult to follow. laymen have a terrible time