[indiscernible] [no audio] the immediate cessation of the aggression, and to immediately address the him entering crisis in gaza --humanitarian crisis in gaza. the reason behind this move is that it our conviction is essential to stop the israeli killing machine, which is

,hedding the blood of civilians without forgetting to hit the .ital infrastructure [indiscernible] thoseair, no doubt that initiatives contributed [inaudible] [indiscernible]

we cannot forget those atrocious scenes of daily shelling. [indiscernible]

[indiscernible]

to believe that security would be guaranteed through military might or domination. the logic of superiority will violations ofmore all legal and moral standards. let us be fully of where -- fully aware, there will not be security without a justice -- just and lasting solution. what we have seen in the last month is cruelty put as a policy. and no accountability as a warrant. it is a duty, moral and legal, of the international community to protect civilians under occupation, and the u.n. cannot .emain silent

while stepping up efforts to stop the israeli aggression thenst civilians, international community must not lose sight of the root causes of the whole conflict. a legal occupation of the palestinian territories is the root cause. of thegal occupation palestinian territories is the root cause. it is the same conviction of algeria, that peace cannot be achieved in the middle east without the international a firm andaking courageous stand to end the occupation of the palestinian arabll air look -- territories, and to allow the palestinian people to exercise their right and establish an independent, secure state. algeria expresses its hope that by upholding the aforementioned

printable's, the efforts and original actors, including those engaged by the united states of america and our partners in the framework of the arab peace lead initiative, to put on the right track the peace process. will finally yield the long-awaited results and allow for the restoration of the palestinian people in its sovereign right and thus bring peace to the region. thank you. distinguishedhe representative from algeria. i now have the pleasure to give the floor to the representative of the state of qatar. >> i thank you, mr. president. i would like to thank you for to addressso quickly the very dangerous situation in the palestinian territories,

particularly in the gaza strip, and following up on the unjust israeli aggression. we would like to thank the secretary general. we would like to endorse the statements delivered on behalf and the.i.c., non-aligned movement. we believe the israeli aggression has violated all existing international norms. it has had a heavy toll on civilians in the gaza strip. -- flagrantagrant violation of the united nations charter, and a violation of international humanitarian law and international human rights law. these are war crimes, and it is extremely important to ensure

that the perpetrators are held accountable. there is an unprecedented toll among the civilian population in gaza. the international community needs to recognize that what is happening in gaza is the result of terrorist activity, actions by israel. israel -- it has been said that israel has the right to defend its population, civilian population. but if we look at the statistics, if we look at the webers in this conflict, quickly realize how these allegations are mistaken. owing to the heavy death toll among the palestinian population , the repeated shelling by the very powerful israeli army of anra school is a good example of this. have beenchildren

heavily affected by this in terms of the death toll. the schools have been condemned by the international community, and the secretary-general has stated, this act is a criminal act. it is a moral outrage and a criminal act. acts lead us to the following questions. clearest example of terrorism, israel's actions? those who have been directly wounded or killed by israeli ,ctions are in the gaza strip and this situation has

unfortunately been the prevailing situation for a number of years now. we need to put an end to the israeli aggression in the gaza strip. we need to find a solution to the existing humanitarian crisis. the embargo, the blockade needs to be put to an end. these people of gaza, these people need to be given a chance to breathe, a chance to resume their normal lives. tireless efforts by the humanitarian community, someding anra, to provide support and basic services to the palestinian people. qatar has taken part in regional and international efforts to immediately stop this violence. we would like to voice our support for diplomatic efforts

that have been made to reach this 72 hour truce. we would like to recognize the effort of saudi arabia as well. to see these efforts culminate in a durable cease-fire and durable truce. we want this injustice towards the palestinian people to end, and we want international humanitarian law to be respected in that regard. qatar would like to express its support and solidarity with the palestinian people, and we believe they have a legitimate right to exist. thank you. i think the distinguished representative from the state of qatar. is the uniteder states, followed by jordan. >> thank you, mr. president.

i also think the secretary-general and you and colleagues-- u.n. for their remarks. there has been too much suffering over the last month. today i want to talk on the cost of the conflict and what we need to do to bring it to an end. in gaza, the figures our u.n. colleagues cited, the number of killed and wounded civilians, damage homes, and people without food or access to water and sanitation are devastating. we are horrified at the strikes that hit on anra schools. s.n. civilities -- civilian must be protected. must not beilities used for military purposes, including storing ammunitions. let us are member how this conflict started. hamas launched repeated rocket

attacks at israel. hamas deliberately, willfully targets civilians. can accept such attacks. israel has the same right to self-defense as every other nation. mr. president, the united states being constant in our efforts to bring this violence to an end. president obama has engaged directly, and secretary kerry has traveled to the region and been working around-the-clock to achieve a cease-fire. as the parties head to cairo, this effort has our strong support. the united states has also sent its representatives. the last months of violence should serve as an impetus for the parties to resolve the crisis, as the implications of fighting are to dire -- too dire. the current humanitarian cease-fire provides an

opportunity to negotiate he issues, including israel's long-term security and economic opportunity for gaza. we urge all parties to respect the cease-fire completely, and we hope the cairo discussions will lead to a sustainable cease-fire agreement that ensures an end to all hostilities. we need to help the parties rockets accord where stop, tunnels are permanently dismantled, and israel is not attacked again in the near or long term trade gaza must also receive the goods necessary to advance in economic development, and the international community must work in concert to strengthen the recognized palestinian authority. with serious negotiations starting, this is the pivotal time, and we should support the party's efforts to secure a durable cease-fire and give them space to achieve results.

we believe that any process to resolve the crisis in gaza in a lasting and meaningful way must result in the disarmament of hamas and all other terrorist groups. we must also support the on the ground efforts of the united nations and humanitarian organizations. this includes the commendable work of anra. their work in providing shelter and delivering food, water and essential medical supplies has been vital. members weretaff killed in gaza during the last month. we extend our heartfelt condolences to their families. committed states is to supporting the united nations and other humanitarian actors. we have provided nearly $50 million to address emergency humanitarian needs. we strongly urge other donors to contribute generously to the u.n. appeal. pause indent, this

hostilities presents an opportunity that the parties should seize. it is time for the parties to have a genuine dialogue and try to resolve diplomatically, so the entrenched differences that have helped precipitate this conflict. continued states will to work tirelessly with the parties, regional partners, and the international community towards a sustainable peace. thank you. >> i thank the distinguished representative of the united states, and i now give the floor to the distinguished representative of jordan, who will be followed by the russian federation. thank you so much for convening this very important meeting. jordan wishes to associate its voice with a statement made by lebanon. there is a need and was a need

for all member states to listen to the briefings made by the high officials of the united nations today, to fully understand the barbarity of the attack by israel against the galatians in the gaza strip. victims, civilian women, the elderly. mustnternational community understand the depth and tragedy of what is occurring in the gaza strip, and look at what the consequences of the israeli aggression on generations of palestinians is and will be. we need to work immediately to ensure that emergency assistance reaches palestinians who are living in very difficult conditions, amongst the rubble of the ruins of their former homes and residences. they require food, medicine, basic services.

jordan is following the recommendations of his majesty, forllah the second, and international institutions, and especially [indiscernible] has since the beginning of the israeli aggression provided 180 supplies. emergency medicine, food -- all sent to the gaza strip. this in addition to the aid sent and otherates entities working to alleviate the suffering of the palestinian people in the gaza strip. jordan has strengthened its in our field hospital, and we have dispatched andtional blood units

strengthened other hospitals run associations.ency has beennian hospital active for a few years now in the gaza strip on the ground. united nations reports and the reports of other humanitarian agencies show the needs of the gaza strip are increasing exponentially. to lendupon donors further support to united nations agencies and humanitarian agencies active in gaza. my country, jordan, wishes to ofterate the importance reconstruction of the gaza strip, as well as the importance of taking into account the necessary conditions for economic revitalization of the

gaza strip in coordination with the united nations. he have backed all initiatives aimed at this. we pay tribute to united nations staff, and especially staff working as part of anra. we wish to thank them for their , theirs efforts sacrifice in working to lend assistance to the palestinian people in the gaza strip. by israel the bombing of the united nations infrastructure, as well as anra schools, which resulted in a loss of hundreds of civilian lives, including women and children who attempted to seek shelter in those schools. we urge the united nations to initiate an independent inquiry into these actions to ensure that the perpetrator of these heinous crimes be brought to account. itsan has intensified contacts with the leaders of the region, and the leaders of the

world, to put an end to the israeli aggression, to achieve a truce, and to ensure that international humanitarian law is upheld. back efforts underway aimed at achieving a cease-fire, on the basis of the egyptian initiative. we would like to reiterate that the long-term solution is of course a political solution what would you know -- involve serious resumption of negotiations of the two state solution to create an independent palestinian state on palestinian land with its capital as east jerusalem, and this on the basis all relevant to the international resolutions to guarantee peace and security as well as stability for the people in the region. thank you. >> i thank the distinguished representative of jordan. i now have the pleasure to give the floor to the russian federation, who will be followed by china.

thank you so much, mr. president. the confrontation between israel and hamas has become unprecedented in its bloody mess and morphed into a catastrophe. the international community must energetically warned stabilization of the situation around gaza. we view asflict, pressing the tasks of the humanitarian cease-fire and turn it into a long-term truce. we expressed our supports to egypt. we believe that cairo's cease-fire plan must serve as the basis for further steps towards achieving a mutually acceptable agreement. will continuewe to work actively, using all create the conditions for a lasting truce.

we believe the time has long come for serious discussion. the elaboration of a mechanism for settling it. we propose to conduct a brainstorming session at the security council in august on the situation. we are convinced that initial work and ideas to craft a piece supplement -- peace supplement already exist, and have taken place within certain member-states. a component of this could be a careful study of proposals in response to the requirements by the palestinian leadership to place palestine under international protection. detailed discussion within the

framework of the ministerial meeting. discussion must take place with a quartet, the arab league, and key regional states. we believe that a settlement of the current process in the gaza forp must create conditions resumption of direct israeli-palestinian negotiations along final status for a comprehensive settlement. thank you. distinguished representative of the russian federation. i now had the floor to china -- hand the floor to china, followed by france. mr. president, the chinese

delegation wishes to thank the .ecretary-general the conflict in gaza has lasted for four weeks, resulting in a large number of casualties of civilians and a humanitarian crisis. situation.re such a envoy to theal middle east makes two visits to the region within one month. china's foreign minister visited egypt, where he exchanged views with leaders of egypt on promotion of a cease-fire , and put forward a five-point for postal -- prop

osal. israel and palestine should immediately cease fire. rocketing, and other such actions must stop. any actions of countering violence with violence must be abandoned. second, china supports the cease-fire initiative proposed by egypt and other countries. [indiscernible] and building necessary guarantee mechanism. during the process, israel should lift its blockade of gaza

and release palestinian detainees. the concerns of israel should be taken seriously. china supports the claims of the palestinian people to establish an independent state. israel and palestine should .onsider peace talks [indiscernible] the israel-palestine conflict impacts international peace and security. the un's security council should , ande it's responsibility

play a role in solving the palestinian conflict. members of the international community should coordinate with each other in promoting the peace between israel and palestine. the humanitarian situation in palestine merits high attention and should be alleviated. the international community should provide help and support. china will provide 1.5 million u.s. dollars in cash in humanitarian aid to the people of gaza. has alsoross of china provided humanitarian support to the people of gaza. points of the forosal put forth by china the settlement of the question of palestine. we hope that israel and palestine will actively respond

to the appeal for peace by the international community. a 72parties have agreed to hour cease-fire. we hope they will reach agreement. will continue with the rest of the international community to play an active and for auctive role comprehensive and fair solution and lasting peace in the middle east region. thank you, mr. president. representedtinguished -- representative of china. i will now get the floor to france, followed by egypt. thank you so much, mr. president. i would like to reintroduce the

commitments and our full support. i would also like to praise the .ery brave work on the ground welcome theut mediation which has enabled this tragedy. i think now in the outcome is a very heavy one. both parties and the international community --[inaudible] having this cease-fire lead to the current truce and negotiations of egypt must

create the conditions for which the killing must not resume. this must meet the needs and requirements in terms of security. we need a balanced, comprehensive approach. on the one hand lifting the blockade which will have an impact on the palestinian -- opposition. the return of the authority to all areas, including security. the only way to prevent new spirals of iran's -- five to look atwe have

the political aspects. you must not create conditions for a peace and security state within recognized orders. there is no other path than this. two state solution and the security of israel. i would like to say following the paris meeting on july 21, it's played a full part in achieving the full and lasting settlement. this contributed to finding the framework. the security council must stand ready to meet the responsibilities when the time has come.

thank you. ank france and now have the pleasure to get the floor to egypt. egypt will be followed by indonesia. we will have the lunch break at 1:00. i want to announce this ahead of time. egypt to have the floor. the floor. >> thank you, mr. president. i would like to thank the president of the general assembly for quickly responding to the initiative by algeria the subgroup an underlying movement in order to convene the important meeting. i would like to think through mr.the secretary-general, for the briefings.

i would like to subscribe as well to the statement made by the arab group. saudi arabia on behalf of of the islamic group and iran on behalf of of the other group. and then the following few points. we have listened very carefully to briefings from high officials of the united nations on the amount of what i would destruction. this is not new. we have witnessed this before because there is a pattern of behavior that israel follows in similar situations. we can distinguish the future of this pattern. first, and the indiscriminate targeting of civilians in order to avenge the killing or injury of any of its soldiers during combat.

second, targeting infrastructure . water and sanitation, electric fuel plants and especially and water plants. this happened before the previous attacks and happened as well in 2006 when israel beiruted the shores of for the electricity plant. and of course, starting by of these attacks and then investigating and acknowledging it was their fault. third, targeting centers and facilities of the united nations . i was here in 1994 when the center was bombarded by the

posing deaths and construction and government -- again. they hear reports they are not intending to cooperate with the commission on inquiry that has been decided by the human rights council. why is this repeating? why is this happening time and again? because some of us look the other side or help in the aggression. agoere discussing two weeks no onecerning that should be left behind. i hope we still means this would be left behind and they would insist on having occupation. mean no one will left behind for systemic --

systemic development and the one left behind in gaza. were a year ago we discussing the general assembly passed it overwhelmingly the and trade treaty and egypt arab world were insisting on including the crime of aggression within the criteria. but again, it was not included we wish some of us to .upply ammunition and weapons we do commend those who have reviewed previous arms contracts with israel him and we do condemn those who have not. acknowledge there is of course a legitimate right of self-defense for everybody. this of course includes israel,

but includes the palestinians as well. and let me be clear, the killing of civilians, children, women and men and the elderly and the destroying of humanitarian name,ures has another which is war crime and should not go without impunity. , i would like to briefly egyptianhank the efforts in order to reach the cease-fire. thank god we have a to 72 hours. we are on the 30 something work and hope it will hold. it is holding so far. we hope it will be extended. we have delegations from interested parties in cairo, including the united states and others. and we will spare no effort in

order to have a sustainable cease-fire and to address the whole situation in order to prevent this from happening and ensure security. on openingsing now the crossings, lifting the blockade and addressing security the clearnd let me the occupying power is the one responsible for the blockade. we are talking about opening of the crossings. this is the main way in which the palestinian territory should breathe fresh air. finally, we have listened to the message loud and clear. the situation is not sustainable cannot go back empty. the solution is simple. when there will be no condition, there will be no violence. we welcome israeli talks, but

this is not enough. we should focus on reconstruction, compensation and accountability. again, the general assembly would need to bear responsibility and take action if need be. the stockt us hope open the doorll for more sustainable resolution of the conflict in order to review the peace talks between palestine and israel in order to create two states side-by-side living in peace in the middle east. thank the -- distinguished representative from egypt for his statement. indonesia give it to followed by brazil. president, let me begin

by commending you for convening this important meeting. i would also like to thank the for comprehensive briefings. thank you as well for being here with us. my delegation associates itself with the statements we have distinguished representative of saudi arabia and islamic republic of all iran. mr. president, indonesia is deeply shocked by the military tragedy indiscriminate killings and disproportionate use of force by israel come up but we are also deeply appalled at the fact that the brutal and inhumane assault by israel could take place for almost a month without proper response by the

united nations. isthat regard, indonesia calling upon the united nations .o uphold its responsibilities mr. president, the recent development in gaza, we would like to highlight several key actions. first, and the cycle of violence. clearly a cease-fire must be durable and comprehensive to prevent violence from re-creating. in this regard, indonesia calls on all parties to refrain from action that may jeopardize the already volatile situation. indonesia supports the establishment them implementation of cease-fire. alsolockade for gaza must

elected to make sure the operation can have access to essential needs such as food, medicine and energy. second, humanitarian belief. indonesia calls on the committee to immediately provide and deliver humanitarian aid for the people of gaza. we must also prepare ourselves to have palestine -- help alice dine with the construction and economic help the country needs. lastly, the international community must demand this through relative economic malaise -- mechanisms in support the mandate of the commission of the quality. and to prevent it from taking place in the future, indonesia

calls on the u.n. to respond to the palestinian demand for international perfection. progress inlete peace this and a viable assess, danger will always persist. the status quo is unsustainable for all sides. be every effort must accepted to the fullest to help obtain a lasting peace. a piece based on inalienable rights of the people statehood in dignity. i think you, mr. president. >> i thank the distinguished representative of indonesia. at this time i get the floor to brazil followed by canada. , i thank youent for convening this timely meeting. i would also like to say thank you for the bayou bowl although

deeply worrying information shared with us. the level of pilot in the past month in the gaza strip that has taken almost 2000 lives come at is vast majority of which simply unacceptable and profoundly saddens us. --s particular waste situation is particularly disturbing because not only was the senses lost love -- senseless loss of life or vegetable had the peace talks pursued, but also the continuation of hostilities will only distance the parties even further from unnecessary lasting case. the briefings we heard here electedut sharp our human conscience. behind tragic statistics are real human beings. some gravely affected for the third time in a short span and whose lives are not less worthy than ours. as we stated recently in the security council, peace in the

middle east is so fundamental and the states -- stakes are so high that the international community cannot allow the future of israelis and palace indians and consequently that of the whole region to be dated attention, recurring violence in deadlyc worst of conflict. we simply can no longer accept this pattern of events in palestine and israel. for israel the same it wishes for itself, to live in peace in a stable environment. this will certainly not be achieved by the use of the proportionate force. such as the one employed in operation protective edge with the ensuing death of hundreds of --ilians including william women and children between firmly condemn. at the same time, the firing of

rockets and mortars from gaza into israel and the placement of weapons has reaped -- as reported by the secretary general deserves are unambiguous condemnation. mr. president, the defense distraction of homes, hospitals and essential infrastructure and above all, the shelling of schools and other u.n. shelters are growth violations of international humanitarian law as recalled by the secretary general in recent statements. he also said the united nations shelters must be safe stones, not combat zones. all violations must be investigated and perpetrators must be held accountable. for this reason, brazil supported the of sabra smith of international commission of theiry within the real of

human rights council to investigate all violations of international humanitarian law and international human rights law and the occupied palestinian territory. the secretaryined general and condemning any kind of racism or prejudice, including any anti-semitic attacks or demonstrations wherever they take place and whatever -- under whatever pretext. hatred and discrimination will never lead to peace. mr. president, the humanitarian situation in gaza was a matter of serious concern much before the conflict. as a result of the blockade. it is even more dramatic now as more than 450 thousand palestinians have been displaced from their homes. isurning to the status quo no solution. we further reiterate our call upon israel to lift the blockade. the cease-fire and

israeli withdrawal from gaza as a necessary first step. we urge all parties to strictly breast that -- respect the cease-fire in seriously engage in continuing efforts to achieve a permanent and complete cessation of hostilities. the vicious circle of violence must end. this are president, the international community must not continue to passively stand by while the root causes of the conflict remain in place. call foriterates the the security council to end its self-imposed distance. fully carry out its responsibilities under the u.n. charter and actively support the peace process. resuming peace negotiations is urgent and necessary. it is abundantly clear only the implementation of a two state solution will bring durable durablesecurity -- peace and security palestine.

thank you. nk the distinguished representative from brazil and will now give the floor to canada, followed by argentina. much, mr.ou very president. i would like to thank you for giving me the floor and the important meeting of the general assembly. the 72 hourelcomes cease-fire brokered by egypt which has given the people of gaza and israel respite from the terrible conflict with devastating humanitarian consequences. as part of the ongoing assistance to the west bank and gaza, canada has provided palestinians with 30 million dollars in humanitarian funding for 2014 and assessing how best to support palestinian the aims of hamas. is president, canada

saddened by and mourns the loss of life on both sides. and condemns the right to put both sides in mortal danger, including by storing rockets in schools. we welcome the general direction to immediately the plate personnel to deal with the situation. canada strongly condemns the use of u.n. facilities and other civilian sites as cover for military action, putting the lives of palestinian children at the liberal risk. president, -- >> mr. president, the responsibility for death and destruction we have seen in recent weeks our soul -- are attributable solely to hamas. has the right to defend itself in using its own means from deliberate attacks, the

attacks of which it has been a target in recent years. mr. president, the international community still has an itsrtunity to unite in efforts to assist the israeli people and palestinian people to move forward and achieve peace and security. we recognize that in order to peace there needs to be trust. there can be no trust as long as the tunnels built by hamas for transportation of arms and other materials exists. an organization such as hamas, as long as it continues to be able to operate, will not allow for peace or security. of nonviolenceve for hamas is a prerequisite for excepting peas and establishing

true security for all palestinians and all israel ease. canada therefore support the call for developed or is it an of gaza, this disarmament of the militia and placement of control of gaza under palestinian authority security apparatus as part of reconstruction efforts. we believe the real path to peace lies in the immediate resumption of direct negotiations between israel and the palestinians, leading to the establishment of a palestinian state, living peacefully side-by-side with israel and canada urges both sides to return to the negotiations immediately. i thank you, mr. president. >> i thank the distinguished representative of canada, and i now get the floor to the distinguished representative of argentina, who will be the last speaker before the lunch break. argentina, you have the floor.

>> thank you very much, mr. president. i would like to thank you for having called this meeting of the general assembly plenary to hear a series of reflections and to discuss the challenge that was put forward by the attorney general of our argument is in, and i would also variousthank the presenters for their briefings, high commissioner robert as well .s mr. robert sayre argentina is a nonpermanent member of the counsel has been the currentowing crisis in the middle east. this crisis has been characterized by increasing tensions and increasing violence and the expansion of extremism.

we need to assume our responsibilities, obligations with no double standards. have any other options. this is an ethical and political obligation that we have, that we must do so according to the u.n. charter. u.n. council is responsible for the international peace and security and needs to in that regard. like israel's ground offensive, on thed like to call members of the security council, along with the international community, we would like to call for a cease-fire and durable peace. we need to provide -- and sure there is humanitarian aid, that it is able to reach the people of gaza and take actions in

accordance with human rights law. been a heavy toll, the overwhelming authority of the m's have been civilians and we have an intolerable a number -- number of deaths that are children. the cease-fire agreements that were reached and so quickly is ofed is something that great concern to argentina and we believe the latest agreement in the 72 hour cease-fire is extremely important. we also recognize egypt's role in brokering the cease-fire agreement. it is not about whether or not we are optimistic about the future prospect or the end of the conflict, what we want to see is the 72 hour truce is respected.

this general assembly and security council must take action. we cannot wait. they need to cooperate so that we can put an end to the violence and so negotiations toward peace can begin. how can this be accomplished? mr. president, the security resolution 1860 in 2009 has taken some action in this regard. and all of the provisions now it need to be fulfilled. the regular flow of goods and persons need to be allowed for border crossings. and as the secretary of general of the organization has said, it is time to put an end to the blockade on gaza, as it is also

time to put an end to the insecurity in which the people of israel are living. we would like to voice our support for the peace initiative that are underway at this time. egypt is playing a key role in these efforts. it is obvious other regional and international act or is also need to play a role. they need to undertake a commitment to find a solution to the crisis. we would like to support the secretary general and his commitment and hope that concrete results can be achieved. the general assembly and to find aouncil need solution to this conflict so that we can leave behind the vibrant it has generated. finally -- so we can leave behind the violence it has generated.

although the objective is to make sure peace can be maintained, we do realize reverting to the status quo will not accomplish that goal. step backward, then whethertion will be not there will be a new spiral of violence, but when the spiral will once again begin. we believe the security council must assume its role under the charter. it should firmly support ongoing only to establish an immediate and lasting and fully respected cease-fire, but insist the conditions be and they so the parties can which theromise in two states exist side-by-side living in peace along the 1967

borders. is not about being against israel and for palestine. it is not about being against palestine and for israel. mirednot want to become in this way of thinking. we cannot be complacent. must be to collaborate, cooperate, to take decisions and to support bilateral and regional efforts to achieve peace. mr. president, if you asked me whether or not we will achieve this in my country, in argentina, the head of the grandmothers of the [indiscernible] fore looked for her son

decades who had disappeared ,nder the military dictatorship and her daughter had been murdered only two months after giving birth to her grandchild. they said they did not take children. they did not steal children, that they would never be able to find the child. this childhey find of the grandmother. commitment toeat not again return to the situation or cycle of violence. approach we must take in regards to the situation in gaza. gentlemen, we have

just had our last speaker before the break. we shall hear the remaining list of speakers when we resume at 3:00 p.m. in this chamber. i thank you very much for your patience. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] >> as the united nations winds indirecte meeting, israel-palestinian negotiators are underway in cairo. beenian mediators have shuttling between the delegations. israel wants hamas to disarm before considering the militant group's that the territory -- that the territory be cleared. a look here at some of the evacuation in gaza. this photograph of a palestinian girl carrying her belongings.

at this hour, the prime minister benjamin netanyahu briefing reporters on israeli efforts over the last month, saying that, "the tragedy of gaza is that it is ruled by hamas." back in the u.s., in washington as the african summit winds down, today we bring you live coverage of a parallel gathering. new york congressman gary meeks and the congressional black caucus will be hosting discussions with african business and political leaders, u.s. private sector representatives, and members of congress. we will hear from steny hoyer, karen bass, and the president of the import-export bank. that is coming up live at 2:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. wrapping up the summit this afternoon, president obama will hold a news conference at the conclusion of the three-day u.s.-africa summit. that will be live on c-span as well. ongoing more about that

israeli-palestinian conflict. speakers include the former to the envoy israel-palestinian negotiations. they are discussing the dynamics of the situation, and the potential for a sustained cease-fire and the u.s. role in that process. this is hosted by the brookings institution. >> good afternoon, everyone. i would like to thank you all for joining us, particularly those of you who have proved willing to stand in the back, and i am glad you are all here. on a day thatng perhaps offers the first small glimmer of hope that the current round of violence might be ending after several pretty horrible weeks.

factors thatot of one could point to in explaining why this round, of violent conflict erupted when it did. broader structural causes. underlying all of these is an unresolved conflict between israelis and palestinians. thismeans that however round ends, there are larger questions we need to delve into about where things go from here. there are questions for an israeli government that seemed earlier this summer to be questioning or maybe even setting aside its previously declared support for a two state solution. there is a question for israel of what kind of future it wants for its people, and its relationship with its palestinian neighbors. for thestinians and

palestinian leadership, there are questions as well. the palestinian leadership that was shunted aside as this violent conflict began is struggling now to make itself central to the cease-fire agreement. there is the question of what alternatives it can offer to nce, alternatives that might win back the support of a victimized and increasingly frustrated palestinian public. there are questions as well for governments in the region, where divisions within the arab world helped contribute to the delay in achieving a cease-fire. they face the question of whether resolving the palestinian issue is a real cry rt, or whether this long-standing conflict has now arena fort another proxy conflict between contending regional actors. there are questions here for the united states as well.

it has long been the essential mediator in israeli-arab affairs. it has seen diplomacy roundly criticized in this instance, and its advice to its close partner and ally, israel, met with what asw york times" described dismissal. now, those of you who have heard me speak on this topic before know that i have felt for a long time that the primary obstacle to peace agreement lie in the domestic politics of the two sides. there is no doubt that where we sit today after four weeks of horrific violence, there has been a rally around the flag effect on both sides. to some extent we we have seen

harder line voices strengthen over this. would see that as a temporary development. the question is what happens after that phase. we are at a moment where i think we can hope that each of the parties involved in this conflict and interested in this conflict will engage in some self-criticism and some internal reflection. for our eventring today, i thought, this is a fitting day to talk about that. today on the jewish calendar is tish b'av, the day in which jews mark the destruction of the temple in jerusalem. it is a day when they beat -- read the book of lamentations, which is a sad and self-critical, but ultimately somewhat hopeful reflection on the destruction of the temple. bit of with that as a the backdrop, we can delve into these big questions that need to be answered about where we go from here, questions that we

hope leaders on all sides will be asking themselves. i am really delighted to be joined by three terrific colleagues from the foreign-policy program here at brookings to be part of this conversation. ambassador martin, vice president of policy of brookings, and we are glad to have you back on our stage, martin. >> glad to be back. and fellow ine the center for middle east and anotherookings, fantastic fellow and colleague in the center for middle east policy at brookings. all of these gentlemen have been doing some great work throughout the last month, talking to the media, writing very perceptive analyses in foreign affairs, foreign policy on our website, helping us understand this crisis as it unfolded. thanks to all of you for being here.

let me begin with a look at the united states. martin, going back to this article in the new york times, this morning saying that israel dismissed american diplomacy during the conflict, and suggesting that u.s.-israel relations are under unprecedented strain. thatrticle points out too there have been previous instances of significant tension between israeli prime minister's and u.s. presidents of both parties. how does this current period rank? is this truly an unprecedented period of strain, and what does it mean for the role of the u.s. going forward? much foryou all very coming. not in thehat we are brookings auditorium. they are renovating at the moment, so you will have a better user experience a month from now.

i am very happy to be back home. opportunity for the to speak today. the circumstances could not be more horrific, and more a 12 monthafter intensive effort by the united , whichsecretary of state i was involved in to try to get peace between israelis and palestinians see the whole thing blow up yet again in another round of chronic and horrific violence is profoundly depressing. because thesing was out theirtate warning time and time again that the status quo is unsustainable. again, we saw how the

conflict exploded. even though the status quo is obviously unsustainable, we are heading right back to the status quo. that is the chronic nature of it that makes the whole situation even more depressing. the "new york times" story, and the u.s.-israel relationship. story itself pointed out, these conflicting trends -- on the one hand, language used by have the united states on the record criticizing , and the israeli government backgrounding the

israeli press with vitriolic efforts ofout the the united states to achieve a cease-fire. also, unprecedented, at least the attack in the israeli press on our secretary of state. that is on the one side. presidenter side, the signs a bill for $225 million more in security assistance to pay for additional capabilities for israel. both the prime minister on the one side and secretary of state and the president of other singing each other's praises as we come out of his conference. take your pick. to 1982, when i first

came to washington to work, when there was another round of this chronic conflict in which ariel sharon's defense minister was prosecuting a war in lebanon which featured horrific photos of children being injured and killed, much like we have seen in the last couple of weeks. ronald reagan got very upset and usedchem begin, some fairly harsh words in those days. we have seen this movie before. somehow, each time, the relationship survives and moves on. that is partly because it has deep roots, and there is a strong popular support for israel that i'm sure has been damaged to some extent but probably will rebound. in a sense, [indiscernible]

i do think there is something else going on here, that i also felt in the negotiating room. today isis that israel a different country to what it was back in 1982. and for most of its history. today it is strong, economically strong, and has a range of relationships across the world with other powers beyond the united states. those other powers not only as far afield as china, india -- india came out and supported israel during this conflict, which i believe is unprecedented. testament not just to the different politics of the prime minister, but also to the strategic relationship that is

being built between israel and india. certain countries in southeast asia, and it is in eastern europe, and it is with russia. -- theyention of israel were absent for a vote in the united nations general assembly condemning the takeover of which wasrussia, something that raised eyebrows in washington. >> so you are saying they don't need us anymore? >> i'm not saying that. they feel more independent of the united states than they have in the past, more that they can stand on their own to feet. -- two feet. the point i was trying to get to

was that they also feel they have relationships in the arab world that they never had before. that manifested itself very clearly in the way that israel and egypt seemed to have a common interest in taking hamas down, backed by saudi arabia and the other gulf states, with the , and quietlyqatar jordan, morocco -- the sunni marks, essentially. to some extent, the palestinian authority, which has long been a rival of hamas. is this interesting alignment of interests that israel feels it was able to play conflicts crisis and in a way that it has not felt before. it is something of a more structural nature, shifting of

relationship.the it is too early to say what it will actually mean. i do think it is manifesting itself in this crisis. >> israel and egypt together could say at the beginning of --s conflict 3, 4 weeks ago we do not want the u.s. to be the architect of a cease-fire arrangement. we will work that out ourselves. does that say something broader about the traditional american mediating role in the peace process? think it is possible, but it's a little early to say. now, any arabntil leader who has sought to make peace with israel looked to washington. washington to deliver israel or deliver concessions from israel,

starting with and were said not the 1973sadat after war, he said the united states gives israel everything from a loaf of bread to a phantom jet, and therefore i'm going to washington. he kicked out the soviet union and turned to washington. that was the best example and the most important because it featured the israeli-egyptian peace treaty. that has certainly been the view of the palestinian leadership. i do think the point has been reached in negotiations where he aboutquestion mark whether we could deliver the kinds of concessions he was looking for to achieve a two state solution. you saw it in the conditions that he set for extending the negotiations.

he insisted not just on the , butse of the prisoners also on a construction freeze in the west bank and jerusalem for the boardss, while were drawn. the construction freeze, which is something that is impossible for this israeli government to do. i think he said it was a test of this government and a test of the united states government. if we can't deliver that, how are we going to deliver what he needs on jerusalem or the end of the occupation or the evacuation of settlements and so on. i do think that the length of taken since the , 14ted parameters of 2000 years later, or 20 years from the beginning of the oslo

process, the failure to achieve a breakthrough to a two state solution -- which we have been a sponsor for ever since bill clinton stood there on the white house lawn with his arms around yasser arafat and yitzhak rabin ourthey shook hands -- ability has been affected by that. >> you are saying on the palestinian side and broader arab side as well. of the critics of secretary kerry's initial attempt at a swift cease-fire said that the danger of that effort is it would have given power to hamas and its violent rejection of israel at the expense of fatah abbas, who has embraced the two state solution. clearly the delay in getting to -- this delay has

come at a horrific human price. has it successfully avoided a situation whereby hamas is empowered at the expense of fatah and the plo? what is a cease-fire -- if they get the terms on a lasting cease-fire, what do those terms need to include in order to ensure that mahmoud abbas remains the central player for the palestinians in any future negotiations with israel? as to the first question, i would say no. the fundamental calculation that palestinians draw conclusions on an entirely different set of assumptions than folks in washington do.

that may come as a shock to a lot of people. [laughter] this is a very washingtonian and calculationt of that somehow, the longer the war goes on, it will weaken hamas. that has never been the case. it is very much less the case now in this conflict. this is the third such conflict in the last six years. each and every time mahmoud abbas is weakened, the longer it goes on. it is not about military victory or casualties. it is about the two programs of the two sides. mahmoud abbas' program, he has been pliant, he has committed to peaceful resolution of the conflict. that has been ignored.

hamas, on the other hand, rockets and suicide bombings and other forms of violence. that gets attention and has actually produced some results. the prisoner exchange issue is one notable example. hamas got 1000 prisoners and we all know that the failure to release the prisoners in the latest negotiation led to the collapse of that process for mahmoud abbas. there's a real sense to the palestinians that hamas' way, as painful as it is, produces more results. and that is true. it is even more true in this conflict. it is coming on the heels of the failed negotiation and because we have been down this road so many times before. mahmoud abbas has moved closer

to hamas' decisions rather than the other way around. in previous conflicts, mahmoud abbas was reluctant, he could not side with israel against another group of palestinians. he was reluctant to openly embrace hamas. this time around, fatah, plo, the entire palestinian leadership has openly and enthusiastically embraced the hamas and the resistance. >> in the context of a reconciliation agreement that had been reached in month or two prior. >> the ink was barely dry when this conflict started. it could easily have torpedoed the whole thing. but it didn't. it worked in the opposite direction and consolidated the palestinian unity.

as far as the -- touching to one of the key assumptions of u.s. and israeli policy that is a failure of the last eight years -- to the extent that the u.s. has had a policy over the last eight years on gaza, which i don't think it has. we've been pursuing a policy of separating gaza and keeping palestinians divided. playing this guy off of that guy. this is not what diplomacy is made of. frankly, this is how colonialism operates. it is not how diplomacy works and peacemaking works. you make peace with a group as it is. palestinians as such. the notion that we could make peace with one group of palestinians and support war against another group was never going to work. and that has now played out.

it was going to drive hamas into the peace camp or drive mahmoud abbas into hamas' position. >> weren't there some who saw the reconciliation agreement, to some extent, hamas joining abbas in a weaker position. where do the two sit today, what is the power differential? how can abbas keep the upper hand? >> hamas went into this very much out of the junior partner, which is unlike where we were years ago. they come out of this as equal partners, at least. one of the positives, probably the only positive out of this, is the motivation of palestinian unity.

-- consolidation of palestinian unity. in fact, you have a unified palestinian leadership negotiating in cairo. as a practical matter, not a matter of show or expediency. it is a practical matter. hamas needs fatah as much as fatah needs hamas. hamas understands their is no chance to open the border in gaza without a role for the palestinian authority. at the same time, the palestinian has been desperately keen for a role in gaza and mahmoud abbas has been trying to reassert his relevance in things related to gaza. there is a win-win situation in terms of the relevance of both sides. hamas' position now is very firmly embedded into the palestinian landscape. in a way that a month ago it was not. it was much more precarious. like that of the muslim brotherhood in egypt. now, they are, you have got this

broader palestinian safety net around hamas that has cushioned it. >> perhaps that presents an opportunity for later negotiations, if later negotiations are an option. with that, we should take a look at the israeli side of the equation. if we look at the israeli position three weeks ago and the way the cease-fire came about, it seems as though the israeli government got everything it said it wanted. an opportunity to go and destroy the tunnel networks on the ground. it got a degradation of hamas' rocket capability. now, it was able to withdraw ground forces and get a cease-fire without any preconditions. without making any concessions to hamas or anyone else upfront. a couple questions, first, within the israeli debate, we

saw support for the government, netanyahu, is there any questioning in israel today about whether the games were -- gains were worth those additional three weeks of conflict. in the lives lost, and the international censure and everything else i can along with it. how do you expect this experience to shape the political dynamics, particularly for this israeli government going forward? >> the israeli position from the start was to support the conflict in gaza. -- avoid the conflict in gaza. the hope was to contain the west bank. netanyahu was very eager to avoid conflict. the first move was to try and reach some kind of understanding before the official name for

this operation. the second, looking at the 2012, the last round. the third stage, after another cease-fire -- dramatic images that we saw. all of these conversations. 2008, 2012, and now, are seen as three rounds of the same war. there is what you do, it is very close to the center, rockets reaching tel aviv. close to the center of israel. governed by an organization that makes no qualms about its position about israel and tries to put on the best face to the cease-fire.

it is very clear what they are facing. you have the clause i political and quasimilitary really a region and waging war from it. one option, you take it over completely. in 2012, netanyahu suffered politically from not going further. naftali bennett gained a lot of popularity. there is that kind of argument.

the second argument is to let hamas rearm and lift all restrictions and hope for the best. given the israelis' way they understand hamas, the chance of that happening is nil. the experience of this conflict, to the extent of the tunnel system, makes this much less likely. the third option is a very grim status quo. the reality where we see small things, supposedly inadvertently, causing this huge conflagration. netanyahu going in, he had no authority. they said go in all the way, take down hamas, this is the chance to do it. the foreign minister is competing with the leader of the right. another minister to look for is

the education minister in the likud who also broke to the right. most people in the small security cabinet, which is legally commander in chief of the idf. the prime minister, the minister of defense is very hawkish on peace issues. and tzipi livni, who is very dovish compared to this government on peace issues. their position was on the one hand, a very heavy-handed one in terms of confronting hamas and of course the horrific human cost we are seeing. we should not mince words about this. also, an unwillingness to try to change the reality from the ground. there is one silver lining. we have seen a dramatic shift, a

small shift, it is quite important. the role of abbas in the gaza strip. the israelis have seen the palestinian authority security forces as quite reliable and much better than in the past. now that they are talking about bringing forces to the crossing, allowing some opening of the gaza strip, some mitigation of the human condition, and giving a sense of victory to the egypt position. that is backtracking from the very staunch israeli position against the reconciliation government, which is the democratic government. yesterday, the foreign minister criticizing this idea saying we cannot trust abbas. the israeli public is split down the middle.

support for netanyahu is quite high. viewed as very cautious, not going very far. in a sense, israel had no clear goal. the tunnels were not the goal in the beginning. they try to get a cease-fire before a soldier entered the gaza strip. the tunnels were not the main goal. israel was dragged along by hamas. they kept insisting on having this battle until the conditions were met. notwithstanding the human suffering in gaza.

it also suggests something about how israel is approached the whole thing. a dramatic event that will change its position was really dragged along by this organization. >> and i think your description of the long-standing standoff with hamas and the dilemma it confronts with hamas reinforces the point about seeing west bank and gaza as two different problems. has netanyahu rediscovered abbas? >> in a small sense, small abbas. abbas that can take care of the border. we saw reports that fatah was taking responsibility for firing

live ammunition at israeli forces. these were fatah forces, not pa ones. pa forces have remained steady, not getting involved. in that regard, yes. has it changed dramatically in the way they see the peace process in general. it has reinforced strong trends among israelis. the first, the feeling that they cannot win. the fundamental question that they asked, a very famous author and famous vocal voice of the left wing in israel, one of the voices of peace now, he posed a question saying what would you do? if there was a region in your area firing rockets on you. if there was someone holding a baby on his lap and shooting at a nursery, what would you do? this is strong in the israeli

perception, given that is gaza and hamas on the other side. israelis have no illusions as to what it is. from the israeli position, which they withdrew. the perception of gaza was very central to the way they approach the whole thing. it might weaken a distinction between gaza and the west bank. it strengthens the israeli view of what happens if you unilaterally withdraw from the gaza strip, this will have implications for plan b in the west bank. as khaled said, these have been dramatic weeks, from kidnapping of the teenagers and the hardening of positions, the rallying around the flag has been very dramatic. inside israeli society, there has been a very strong consensus and even a shutting down of people who are not supporting the troops. >> can i? >> yes, i would like you to respond to the idea that the

u.s. has treated the west bank and gaza as two distinct issues in diplomacy. >> you said it makes it harder, advocating plan b, to unilaterally withdraw from some of the west bank. it also makes it much harder for plan a, a negotiated solution. prime minister netanyahu, before this latest round of war in gaza, had begun to articulate the position that the fear of tunnels in the west bank meant israel would have to keep israeli security forces and shin bet in the west bank for a very long time. that was a position articulated in the press conference.

correct me if i am wrong. that resonates a lot as a result of this conflict with the israeli public. the whole concept of a two state solution, which requires an end to israeli occupation of west bank, the actual withdrawal of the idf, and the shin bet from the west bank, becomes really questionable. if the prime minister of israel is saying we have to stay there for a very long time. he says 30 years. it used to be, during our negotiations, along the jordan river. so that means -- those palestinians, from abu mazen to his security chiefs, have justified security coordination on the basis that there will be

an end to the occupation, not in 30 years, but in five years. that has become justification but that is not the case. if the israeli view is we are going to have to stay there for 30 years. for the palestinians, that is equivalent to forever. that puts another nail into the coffin of the two state solution. for those like me, who have always looked for the pony in the pile of shit -- [laughter] >> that is a diplomatic term of art. >> there is a hope that israelis will see that abu mazen is much better, even a partner because of the way that he behaved during the kidnapping process and the way hamas has behaved since.

so maybe they will be supporting israel to help abu mazen eventually take control and gaza and that will unite the palestinians. and abu mazen's leadership will form the basis of negotiations for a two state solution. it seems to me that the right wing in israel is going after abu mazen for a reason. that is why lieberman has come out against him. before him, another right wing member of the likud came out against doing anything for abu mazen. they consent that israelis are taking abu mazen more seriously. but to build up abu mazen means, to strengthen the idea of a two state solution, which they do not want.

>> it is very true and very dangerous but we should remember that this is the got reaction. immediately after the war we see this. even among the troika, there was differences. huge differences. it is true and very worrisome, i'm not sure it is as long-standing as the lessons israelis have learned for unilateralism or on hamas. >> it might be more dynamic and than it appears. >> the pony is still there. >> don't worry. i want your thoughts on the idea that, now bibi sees there is something he wants from mahmoud abbas. he wants him as a policeman and a border guard, precisely the roles that have generated resentment and opposition within palestinian society. how does this play out for him? >> i don't think it plays out very well for him if that is going to remain his role.

we have to make a distinction between empowering abu mazen at the expense of hamas, which is a failed policy, that has been the policy of the last eight years and is still the israeli approach. that is a zero sum, it is futile and self-defeating. the other way is to empower abbas by including hamas under the umbrella of the plo to have a share in power, to have a stake in the political process so that it is less inclined to torpedo it if it is on the inside than it is on the outside. this points to another fundamental failure in u.s. policy, which is, oddly enough, very much unlike the previous administration. in fact, it is the reverse. here we have an administration focused almost exclusively on

conflict resolution. negotiations, final status, that is it. to the total neglect of any sense of conflict management. any real, viable peace process has to have both. george w. bush gets criticized for doing too much conflict management and not enough conflict resolution. we can criticize this administration for focusing exclusively on conflict resolution and ignoring conflict management so that -- part of that disconnect relates to gaza and hamas. we do not have a policy for gaza and hamas. we have to wait for that to play itself out. obviously, where a lot of people in washington say, it was only 1800 gazans who died, palestinians see it as 1800 brothers and sisters that were killed. in terms of how israel conducts

warfare, the whole, if we come out of this with anything other than why it is important to avoid these kinds of violent conflagrations in the first place, when they do start, there has to be rules to the game. the notion that israel's military doctrine of overwhelming distortion of force force isportionate somehow acceptable -- we need to reconsider that. i do not think this is a legitimate way to conduct a military operation, by deliberately inflicting as much pain on the other side. that is the central tenet of the dahiya doctrine, to be disproportionate.

there is a reason that proportionality is a basic part of humanitarian law. when you have something that flies in the face of that and you see the destruction in the gaza strip out of proportion to any threat hamas may have, this has real consequences. it has human consequences, moral consequences, political consequences. mahmoud abbas is not going to be in a hurry to grace any israeli israeli leaders or even to his security bidding, israel's security bidding in the west bank. it makes his position more precarious. there are also security ramifications for this. when you have that much human misery, gaza was not a happy place to begin with, you throw on top of that 400 children who are killed, 10,000 homes destroyed, 400,000 displaced. that is really outrageous.

this is where american leadership comes in. once upon a time, there was something called the roadmap. the logic of the roadmap, not that i'm a huge fan of that document, it had logic in terms of conflict resolution. when there is death on one side, it embitters that side and makes them want to inflict death on the other side. that is basic common sense. the notion that you can only have a deterrent for israel and that somehow palestinians will just be deterred, quietly, and go quietly into the night, is really not a sound idea. we need to think about how to prevent these conflicts in the first place. and when they do happen, to make sure that there is a degree of reasonableness to how they are conducted. otherwise, we have completely destroyed, in addition to losing our humanity, we have completely destroyed our credibility.

>> part of what you are getting at is the iterative nation of this confrontation. confrontation,is and the dilemma for israel and confronting hamas. the fact that this has recurred three times in the last six years. it generates an ongoing impact that undermines the prospects for conflict resolution. ultimately, conflict resolution will eliminate or, ideally, eliminate the prospects for another round. there are things you have to do in the meantime as well. >> i would just add that since we are probably going into a period where we are not likely to see renewed permanent status negotiations, we are in a long-term conflict management situation. we ought to have a policy to prevent these kinds of atrocities down the road. >> it's a good point. i want to give you a chance to weigh in on whether the u.s. had a gaza strategy in these

negotiations. i want to make a plug on this question of deterrence and proportionality and doctrines. there was a discussion on foreign policy a couple weeks ago that i would recommend to all of you interested. martin, and then i will open it up for questions. >> i understand very well khaled's criticism and his passionate conviction on this matter. and i share his view that it is unacceptable that over 400 children could be killed in this conflict. but, we do have to put it in context. context is one in which hamas was targeting israeli civilians. the only reason the casualty

rate was not higher on the israeli side was because they had a means of protection for their civilians. whereas, hamas does not have a means of protecting their civilians. if they were paying any attention to protecting their civilians whatsoever, is not as if they built air raid shelters for them. instead, they were firing rockets from civilian areas. we all know that. you cannot just condemn the israelis without putting into context the circumstances that they face. now, the criticism of the administration, to add to your question, the effort to resolve the conflict that the secretary of state and the president undertook. and that i had the honor to be involved in.

came out of a belief that you needed to find a way to break out of a chronic nation of this conflict. -- nature of this conflict. you needed to try to resolve it. it is not as if the resolution was any great mystery. it was a question of trying to find a way to get the two sides to break out of this and actually make the difficult, gut wrenching, politically risky decisions that would make it possible to resolve this conflict. obviously, in terms of resolving the conflict, you have to address gaza. that was an issue that was to be addressed and both sides agreed to this in the final status negotiations. the palestinian authority, the plo, that was an issue that

would be addressed once the agreement had been struck. because then it would have to involve the opening of gaza, there was the territorial issue with the question of control of its borders. that would have to be part of the final deal. and then gazans would see they had an opportunity to have freedom in their own independent palestinian state. that would put immense pressure on hamas to go along with it. so, that was essentially the theory of the case. we never got to test it. to say that it would have been better off engaging in conflict management, it is essentially to say that we are not going to be able to resolve this conflict so we should just manage it and try

to keep it contained. there was a fundamental decision made by the secretary and the president that that was only going to lead to more conflict. >> you thought, and the israeli and plo delegations thought that you could push resolution of gaza issues down the road, that you had time? >> we did not have a choice, hamas is not interested in peace with israel. therefore, you cannot construct a peace negotiation with hamas. maybe, as a result of this, it becomes possible that the palestinian leadership under abu mazen will somehow convince hamas that it should go along with a two state solution and acceptance of israel.

there is no indication that hamas is prepared to do that. it is fine to say we should have conflict management. it does not treat the problem, it just ensures we are going to have outbreaks of conflict. there is nothing that we could do to prevent that from happening. >> you've been a very patient audience, i want to give khaled a minute to respond. >> my point is not either/or, conflict resolution or management, but that we conduct the two together. that is what a peace process ought to do. so there is a safety net for when negotiations collapse. rather than just drifting towards the abyss from as we often do, whenever negotiations collapse. all i am saying is that there needs to be some thought put into conflict management when negotiations are not happening are possible. >> what does that mean?

>> something like the roadmap, there is extremism on the palestinian side. >> putting a knife into the roadmap? [laughter] >> compared to what we have today, which is basically just a vacuum, i think the roadmap is fantastic by comparison. [laughter] there was a sense of mutuality. yes, hamas rejects israel and there are horrible things in its charter. there are horrible things in the likud charter. horrible things that the deputy speaker of the knesset says about ethnic cleansing of palestinians. that is the definition of a conflict. so we cannot resolve the conflict until we have resolved the conflict.

>> as a practical matter, israel had a conflict management strategy for gaza, whether the u.s. acknowledges it or not, which was to have a close alliance with the egyptians to keep hamas and abbas and go after them if necessary. i will open it up for your question. i am going to request that they be questions and that you get one of them. wait for the microphone to get to you, identify yourself, and ask your single question. why don't we start with the gentleman next to the microphone. >> my question to ambassador indyk, what is your opinion on the egyptian initiative? >> which initiative? >> what egypt offered for the

two sides. the palestinians and israelis are now in cairo. >> what do we expect out of that? let's take a couple more. young man in the back with the white shirt and tie. >> my question is about the humanitarian situation in gaza. palestinians in gaza are pretty pessimistic about the status quo. do you see any potential for movement, either in the israeli position on the siege or the american political will to force some sort of change, either in what appears to be the expanded buffer zone or the coastal waters, anything that relates to the humanitarian? >> how might these negotiations in cairo play out in terms of gaza? i will give you the last of this section. >> i'm a palestinian journalist. my question to ambassador indyk,

how do the sale negotiations that just concluded play into this conflict. are these talks frozen forever? and then -- >> you've violated my rule. thank you. martin, why don't you start? >> do i have to? [laughter] >> you knew that was coming. >> the egyptian initiative, from the outset, there has been almost universal support for the egyptian initiative, which was a cease-fire in place for a limited period of time, it is now 72 hours and started at seven days.