look at the competition between states to attract investment and jobs.

host: you can let us know in the first 45 minutes. on social media, it's at c-span wj. it was back in may that the folks at gallup took a poll on same sex marriage. here is the question they asked. do you think marriages between same sex couples should or should not be recognized as valid with the same rights at traditional marriage? 55% of respondents say it should be valid, and 42% saying it shouldn't be valid. but, take a look back in 1996 when this question was asked.

back then, respondents 68% of them said that it should not be valid. 27% said that it should be valid. again, that's from '96 up until may of 2014 that that poll was taken by gallup. we bring this up because sixth circuit court of appeals took this issue hearing numerous amount of cases taking a look at tissue. we'll take a look at the court's thoughts and the process and what the cases were, but before we do that again for our first 45 minutes a discussion with you about your thoughts on same sex marriage. your opinion of it and has your opinion changed. here are the numbers if you want to give us a call. (202(202) 585-3881 for republic. (202) 585-3880 for democrats. for independents, (202) 585-3882. and you can reach out to us on our social media channel, as well. we'll take the todays in just a moment. first i'll point you to a story taking a look at the this

circuit. this is the picture you'll find, associated press picture in the "washington post." robert barnes took a listen to these cases, and writes about it in today's paper. and joins us, as well, on the phone this morning mr. barnes, good morning. >> good to be with you. host: could you set this up and talk to our viewers and tell them why the sixth circuit was hearing these cases? >> yes, as you know there have been a number of challenges following the supreme court's action. in 2013 they struck down part of the defense of marriage act which was a federal act act that refused to recognize same sex marriages that were performed in states where it was legal. the court took that action but it didn't decide another question, and that is whether the states have the ability to restrict marriage to just heterosexual couples. and to not allow gay marriage.

and so the question is does the constitution require states to do that? so there have been a number of challenges filed all around the country. in each district court that has heard it, or reached to decision, i should say, they decided that yes, these bans are unconstitutional. those cases are now working their way through the appeals court, and soon will end up at the supreme court. so yesterday, the sixth circuit, which is composed of four states, had cases from all four of those states about either whether states have to issue marriage licenses to gay couples, or whether it has to recognize legal same sex marriages that were performed in other states and that -- where the couples now live, in that state. so it was quite a show, it's really unprecedented for a court to hear so many of these cases at one time. host: robert barnes, tell us

about the sixth circuit and about these judges. what's important to know about them? >> well the sixth circuit is more conservative than the other circuits that so far have ruled on this. there have been two, and they both agreed that the state bans were unconstitutional. but the sixth circuit by about a 2-1 margin has more judges appointed by republican presidents than democratic ones, they are more conservative, and that was what we saw yesterday on this panel. two of the judges appointed by president george w. bush, the other recommended by president bill clinton. host: as far as the judges themselves, who were the stand outs and were there interesting questions from them? and who are the ones that you were paying attention to? >> well, i think it became quite clear that judge dauwtery,

believed that these bans are unconstitutional. she continually compared this to bans on interracial marriage, and she also talked about women's right to vote, which she pointed out to a lawyer took decades and decades as it worked its way through all of the states. judge cook was appointed by president bush. didn't say very much through all of these, but all the questions she asked him were supportive of the state. and so at the center of it was a judge named jeffrey sutton who is very well regarded n in conservative circles. he has been mentioned as a potential supreme court nominee should republicans take the white house in the future. and he was much harder to call. he asked a lot of questions on both sides of the issue.

he said it was clear that the supreme court was moving towards a greater respect and embrace of gay rights, but at the same time he is a big proponent of federalism, meaning states get to set their own rules. and so i think it seems fairly clear that the outcome of this will come down to what judge sutton thinks. >> what are the possible outcomes and what happens after that? >> well, the possible outcomes will be they either uphold all of these lower court decisions from michigan, kentucky, tennessee and ohio, or they go the other way. if they go the other way, that creates a split in the circuits. and that's just the kind of thing that the supreme court looks for. every one thinks that this case -- this issue is going to end up at the supreme court in some fashion, but there's no

deadline for the court to take that. if there is a split between the circuits, though, and so one appeals court in one part of the country is saying it's unconstitutional to have these bans, and another appeals court in another part of the country says no, it's not, then that's a case where the court is almost obligated to step in and referee that fight and decide who is right. host: robert barnes will the supreme court hear any type of same sex marriage case in their term in 2015? >> we don't know. utah has already filed a petition with the court, asking them to review that decision. virginia is going to do the same thing at the end of the week. and so the issue is certainly there for the court to take, but the court is -- there aren't

marriages taking place in these states. the court has stopped it in utah, for instance, and so there's no real rush for the court to take it. but as i say, if there's a split between these circuits at some point that really increases the pressure on the court to take the issue and decide it soon. host: joining us on the phone is robert barnes with the "washington post," taking a look at these court cases that were heard, appears in this morning's "washington post." you can find that online. thanks for your time this morning. >> my pleasure. thanks for calling. host: again your thoughts on same-sex marriage. and if your opinion has changed on it. if you want to give us a call on the phone lines it's (202) 585-3881 for republican, (202) 585-3880 for democrats, (202) 585-3882 for independents. we referenced the gallup poll, off of twitter, 66% support most recent survey.

that's the abc news "washington post" poll, dated june of 2014. your thoughts welcomed, as well. we'll start with clark in seal beach, california, democrats line hello. caller: hi, pedro. i feel opposed to same-sex marriage. it's very heavily favored in san francisco. i feel like licking -- host: next today, colombia, maryland, independent line. caller: how you doing? when i think about it, i oppose it for the simple fact that it's being shoved down people's throats like you have to accept this. you can't necessarily, you know, govern away what a person thinks. i'm not saying i want anyone to come out and violate anyone's rights and stop anyone from doing it. what they do personally is what they do personally. to are the government say you have to accept this, i mean in my opinion, that's completely

wrong. host: from colombia, maryland, again the discussion this morning taking a look at same-sex marriage. if your opinion changed of it, here is a call. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i'm a proponent for gay marriage. however, i do believe that a person should have the right for their insurance purposes to put down whomever they would like to be a part of their insurance, for coverage. and i think if we were to allow that, and a person's right to be able to choose who they want to be, whether family member or whomever, a partner or whatever, that would help solve some of this problem. i'm not really for gay marriage. host: let me ask you this. what shapes your opinion on gay marriage the most, if you had to -- if you had to kind of define that? caller: well, i must admit i'm a

christian, and i just don't believe that a man and a man and a woman and a woman should be in union, and i definitely don't believe it should be legalized. what you do in your own home in your privacy, that's your personal business. however, in order to put it out there to the world and say this is what i want to do and you give me some rights because this is what i want to do, i don't believe that should be so. host: richard rogers off of twitter says this this morning. marriage is between a man and woman. it should remain that way. society need not discriminate as to preference. your thoughts welcomed, as well on same-sex marriage if your opinion changed a bit. camille, houston, texas, independent line, good morning, go ahead. caller: how you doing? host: fine, thanks. caller: okay, great. one of my points i wanted to make about gay marriage, and this is what a friend of mine told know when i was in high school, he said look, you support the civil rights movement of the 1960s. why is the gay marriage problem

not the civil rights movement of the 2000s? you have folks being denied their rights under equal protection, at the same time heterosexual marriages are having the same rights. the question is how much should the government actually play a role in deciding whether people should mary and whether homosexual marriages infringe on the right of heterosexual marriage to marry and i don't think they should. under that equal protection i think the rights of the homosexual both are being violated and they do not infringe on anybody else's right, heterosexual or with the not, to marry. host: how does your opinion differ from those that you associate with whether your peers or maybe your parents or things like that? caller: well, i think the problem is that there's a -- i think the media often portrays a homosexual person as a different type of person, they're more -- their personality is different.

that is not true. the fact of the matter is when most people talk to homosexual marriages -- couples they want the same rights that heterosexual married couples want. they want to grow a family, they want stability and a right for their love to be recognized and i don't see a problem with that. host: here is cindy from oakwood, illinois, republican line. cindy, good morning. caller: hello. host: you're on, didn't go ahead. caller: i think that i'm a christian and i think that the belief comes from the bible, that you don't have homosexual relationships. i think legally people should be able to inherit things and visit the sick, and i just think anatomically god didn't make people to be anything but in a heterosexual relationship. and i don't believe in persecution of people, though.

host: what about civil unions? do you hold that the same as marriage? caller: no, because that indicates they should have the rights of marriage. i think it should be -- i think they should be legally able to visit their partner and do what they do in their homes, and -- no, i think -- i think that you need a male and female in a family, but i don't believe in persecution, either. host: here is sandy, charlotte, north carolina, independent line. caller: yes. i support same-sex marriage and my views on this have not changed. after i read about the sixth circuit court, and they're getting about ready to rule, in the state of north carolina we are not having a problem with -- i don't see it as a problem, but the state attorney general has decided that he is not going to

support north carolina in the fact that our governor and some of the most far right conservatives in the state is trying to shove down other people's throats and say we want to ban same-sex marriage. i agree that it's a waste of money a waste of time. i think what people do in their home is their own personal business. what bothers me is when christians, so-called christians, come your program or any other program and spit out their views and not christian values by saying that people should be discriminated, people shut be treated rudely and so on and so fort. i think we need to wake up, because if jesus christ had to come back, and i consider myself a very strong christian, and i also consider myself who believes in the right of others, and that is jesus christ had to come back and let some of these so-called christians, like one of your callers from florida and the other caller that just got off the phone and talked about

christianity they get the views all wrong. i just think that it bothers me when we get behind the terminology of christianity to say that we want to discriminate against one group versus another. host: and that's from north carolina. north carolina being one of the states that have cases pending against same-sex marriage. joined alongside with south carolina, miss and others on this map that are shaded in blue. the ones in purple allow for same-sex marriage, came 14 i can't, oregon, washington, illinois and there are other categories, as well, including states and territories. you heard robert barnes talk about the sixth circuit court of appeals hearing these cases from several states, taking a look at the possibility of the supreme court, as well. we're using that as a question this morning to talk about your views on same-sex marriage, and if they've changed the numbers on the screen, all with a 202

area code. (202) 585-3881 for republicans, (202) 585-3880 for democrats, and (202) 585-3882 for subsequents. russia announcing selection of bans of imports, and this is in response of ongoing issues going on in russia. here is "the new york times." putin bans some imports, as pay back for sanctions. this says that the trade ban decree that mr. putin signed wednesday did not name specific products or countries to be banned, but the spokeswoman said in a statement that the full list will be released today. it would include fruits, vegetables and meats. she said it would not include wine or baby food. if you take a look at the "washington post" this morning and their write up of it, it adds that part of mr. putin's 14 year grasp on power has depended on the acquiescence of a prosperrest middle class whose member enjoy the wide variety of foods. those people may be affected

more quickly by the food ban than by western sanctions, targeting areas of the economy more likely to hit a small sector of the wealthiest russians. woulden andist said an equally important ban may be a domestic part of the population. the idea that the russian agricultural sector suffers from competition, and producers in the third world, a political science, there's a popular conception that if food imports were reduced it would revitalize russian argument he said it would hurt consumers. ard from bronx, new york. if your opinion has change of it, go ahead. caller: first i would like to say that as a christian we need to think and love and i have a tremendous amount of compassion for homosexuals.

i know some homosexual people, many have been molested as children. some have hormone imbalances, testosterone that make it hard to understand which gender they are. but i think we need to very soberly look at the historical example of civiliziation, like rome where the spirit of homosexuality sort of took over the general spirit. i experienced that homosexuality is very rebellious and aggressive spirit. touching them inappropriately, groping them, this is not to say that heterosexual people don't do the same thing. host: what about states as these wrestle with this question? how does your state handle it and what do you think about other states that are dealing with this issue? caller: i think that as a community, i think we need to think of our selfs as human beings in community rather than

abstract ideas of government. we are in a community. i think that people have the right to put fort what they feel their community standards should be. i have a tremendous amount of compassion and love for homosexuals, and i think there is a lot of therapy that should be given. host: glenn from washington, republican line, hi. caller: good morning. thanks for taking the today. i totally disagree with the last caller to the extent that you can't really have it both ways by saying what the community agrees with and being american. i believe that first of all if your phone lines had a libertarian republican and democrat instead of independent, i think it would be a better

show. i believe if you were to poll people on the percentages of policies they believe in, you would find that inner circle that crosses over both left and right is largest. host: what about this issue specifically? caller: well, the way i feel about it is that i feel hypocritical as a conservative to say i want the government out of our lives. i want personal responsibility and the government out of our lives but to say the government should be deciding this social realm, i agree with the caller from texas that the homosexual community, i'm a heterosexual male, 55-years-old, doesn't hurt anybody. i believe it's a physical attribute if someone is homosexual, that's the way i believe. i think that the government should stay out of it. host: richard, off of twitter, saying similar things. get the government out of marriage and there wouldn't be a problem. freedom is the answer. one of the last things congress did before leaving town was to

sign a bill that would authorize and give the veterans affairs $16 billion to deal with health care issues. that bill being signed by the president today. you can see that live at 11:20 this morning on c-span. go to our web site, c-span.org for more information. up next, robert, ohio, independent line. hi. caller: hello. i would just like to talk about the first chapter of romans, verse 27 and 28, when men give up the natural use of women and go with man on man, and vice versa with women, god gives these -- turns these people over and give them the minds of -- host: the bible says -- does the bible shape your opinion on this issue only? caller: yes. i go by what the bible says and not what man says. and roprobate is people who

rather do evil than good, and people who are condemned to hell by god. host: if you go to "usa today" this morning on their front page taking a look, a story that stems from the migrant story you've been hearing over the last several months, this one taking a look at school systems and how they're bracing for it. the headline this morning in the story, up to 50,000 migrant children possibly entering school systems and schools talking about being braced for it. just to point out a couple paragraphs, you can read it on line or "usa today" this morning, saying the department of education has a team available to identify resources for school districts, according to an e-mail, the agency's press secretary, school districts receive funding under the federal no child left behind act for students who have limited english proficiency. "usa today" is where you can read that. here is floyd from jonesville, virginia, republican line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call.

i hope you give me a minute to explain my position. first of all our courts are out of control. how can all these people vote against this and one judge can come up and overturn all of it? our votes is no good anymore in america because our courts are out of control. somebody needs to change that. in the book of jude, chapter one, verse 7 it says even as solomon and the cities about them are given -- and going after strange flesh which strong flesh is the same sex, as -- set forth as an example -- whenever the courts and we got a president that supports this stuff does this, then it brings down the nation, the whole nation. look what's happening. i mean, obama said he's going to control the oceans. the oceans is controlled by god.

the hurricanes is controlled by god. attorneys controlled by god and not obama. i just wanted to make that point. host: before president obama who as part of the us africa leader summit in washington, d.c. took a few moments talking with the press about the current situation concerning the gaza strip and calling for enduring cease-fire, the abc news writing enduring stability is not in the near future. it will require leaders on both sides to of generations long dispute to take political risk for the sake of peace and prosperity, according to the president. first mr. obama said a temporary cease-fire in the gaza strip must hold without being violated before it expires on friday. here are some of the thoughts on the current actions going on in the gaza strip from yesterday. >> i'm very glad that we have at least temporarily achieved a cease-fire. the question is how do we build on this temporary cessation of violation and move forward in a

sustainable way? we intend to support the processes taking place in egypt. i think the short-term goal has to be to make sure that rocket launchers do not resume, that the work that the israeli government did in closing out these tunnels has been completed, and that we are now in the process of helping to rebuild a gaza that has been really badly damaged as a consequence of this conflict. long term, there has to be a recognition that gaza cannot sustain itself permanently, closed offer from the world, and incapable of providing some opportunity, jobs, economic

growth for the population that live there, particularly given how dense that population is, how young that population is. we're going to have to see a shift in opportunity for the people of gaza. i have no sympathy for hamas. i have great sympathy for ordinary people who are struggling within gaza. the question -- host: the president made a wide range of comments on the topic yesterday. you can see those in total on our web site, c-span.org. and you'll notice it's a box in the video that you can look at his thoughts. back to the call on same-sex marriage if your opinion has changed. democrats line. caller: hi, i'm definitely in support of same-sex marriage. i live in ohio. me and my partner got married in

new york last year after the same ruling. i didn't even want to be married, but we are raising a family. i mean, and we have to think about things like pensions. i'm a public school teacher. i got a good pension, my partner does not. i need her to have access to that. she is raising a baby. the baby is biological hers. i need more rights to make decisions and even be able to, you know, show up at day care and pick her up, things like that. health insurance, like my coworkers get -- i do the same job my coworkers do, but i don't get all the benefits. i'm a school teacher. i put in a lot of hours. yes, my partner can receive a lump pension sum when -- if i die but she can't get the payments to support her, and it's just not fair that we have the same job, i do the same thing, but i don't have all the rights, same thing goes for

taxes. when our property -- we are going to get -- i don't even know the implications of that. i know the supreme court ruling was all about that. furthermore, one of your callers mentioned going against what the voters have voted. in 2004 when all the marriage bans came up it was -- it was a political ploy to get george bushey elected. it was -- they used that as an issue to get the voters out. host: you went to new york but does ohio i'm assuming ohio doesn't recognize your marriage? caller: it does not. and that's what was being decided yesterday or one of the cases being heard in the circuit court yesterday was whether or not they have to, because they ruled a lower court ruled that ohio has to recognize my marriage, and our attorney

general appealed it. so that was the appeal that was happen eaching yesterday. host: think is shannon from lease burg, virginia. independent line. caller: good return monthing. my opinion has changed significantly. i used to believe, you know, go by the bible, and i acknowledge that the bible really takes a bad look at homosexuals, but here is what i come to. number one, i don't like that my government is telling me what religion or is ruling by religion and by the bible. that bothers me tremendously. number two, you know, for those christians out there, you can only be responsible to god for your actions. let god judge these other issue, other people. i can only be responsible for my actions. if i discriminate or i treat them badly, or i have hate in my heart, i'm going to be the one that is going to be paying the ultimate penalty. and the last point i want to

make is you know, it's not for me, it's not something that i would do, but i don't see how it threatens me in any way and i can see how it actually helps or community, helps our society when people are able to get the benefits and treat it equal i had under the law, because that's what our government is all about. host: how have others reacted to your change in position? caller: actually, a lot of them have changed with me. just -- you know, it's something that i think we have to get used to. i think time has taught us a lot. we -- i know that i had a lot of preconceived notions about gay couples, and what it was, and the bible's stance on it. i think over time, i actually come to admire a lot of gay professionals, and they've been actual mentors of mine, and i'm learning that all my prejudices, you know, they're just prejudices. they're not based in fact. host: shannon thank you.

we have to leave it there. if you're just joining us for the next 15 minutes or so, your thoughts on same-sex marriage. and if your opinion has changed, and you can feel free to call the lines thats about represent you. there's a follow-up story in the "washington post" taking a look at the shooting of major greene in afghanistan. the headline, killing of u.s. general points to afghan troops troubled past. the army, the most professional and popular of the new defense forces has drawn recruits from across the country who have been expected to replace local and ethnic loyalties, and its defense. from the beginning, however, the project has been plagued with problems. soldiers gone awol and desserted in high numbers. equipment has been old and expensive to remarks but perhaps most problematic the american mentors who have embadded with afghan units were slow to

arrive. henry, from parkville, maryland, republican line, go ahead. caller: yes, hello. give me a second, and i'll be real quick and courteous to your other callers. i want to say i don't think the government should be involved in marriage. i think it should be the place of civil institutions. religious organizations and special-interest groups to approve marriages. i think that the government's involved with it because of tax benefits and tax penalties, and honestly i don't think that one person or people should be elevated or get special rights, namely because they decide on get married to a person. there are people who are roommates that have the same exact bills that married couples do and they don't get the tax benefits of married couples.

i think we would have a lot more -- we would get our housing market back on track. returning we would have a lot more students who were able to move out of the parent's houses if we were allowed to give these tax benefits and tax breaks to, say, civil unions inand stuff like that. temporary civil unions that can, you know, get together and break up. that's my comment. thank you for giving me a voice. host: tony from new jersey, democrats line. caller: thank you for taking my call. when my son was 8-years-old he asked me what does it mean when a man is gay. and i looked at him for a second and i said it means when a man loves another man the i way love your mother. he looked at me, said okay, and walked away. i know that's very simplistic. that's how i feel. i'm for it. if people are gay, they're gay. if they're straight, they're

straight. thank you very much for taking my call, sir. host: that's tony. focus today for voters particularly participating in the senate primary process this morning and today, joining us on the phone to talk about what's going on in tennessee is michael collin. he's with the memphis commercial appeal, a washington correspondent. good morning. >> good morning. host: what's the most important thing to watch in tennessee today and specifically who is the most important person to watch? >> i think the most important thing to watch in tennessee today is going to be the senate race. senator lamar all ex-and, he has been involved in tennessee poll continues for over 40 years. he is running for a third term and facing a pretty aggressive challenge from the tea party candidates, the most serious of his challengers is joe carter. mr. carter has gotten the

support of some prominent members of the tea party, sarah palin endorsed him. radio personality laura ingram has endorsed him and came to tennessee and held a rally for him a few weeks ago. mr. carr has been going across the state telling people that alexander is a dc insider, no longer represents their interest. he has a difficult time getting out because he doesn't have a whole lot of money, but he has run an aggressive campaign, and that is the one that i think that most people are going to be paying attention to tonight. host: are outside groups giving mr. carney help? >> somewhat, yes. as i said laura ingram came into town, came into tennessee and held a rally for him. there has been -- there have been other outside groups that have done some on the ground campaigning for him. but he really has not gotten the

kind of support on the ground support that a lot of people thought that these groups would give him in tennessee. host: as far as polling and things of that matter where does it place senator alexander? >> it looks like he probably will win it. there was polling done back in the early spring and those polls gave senator alexander a comfortable lead. there hasn't been a lot of independent polling done since then. the campaigns, of course, have their own polls. senator alexander's campaign leaked one of their internal polls a couple weeks ago that showed him with a 30-point lead. joe carr thinks the race is much closer than that. i think most of the people expect senator alexander to win comfortably. host: who will he face if he wins? >> there are two democrats in the race, and they're both

attorneys. and they are -- their names artery adams and gordon ball. the democratic primary has not really gotten a whole lot of attention in this race, and most people think that senatorial alexander is probably going to win a third term. host: district four there is a race that has drawn a lot of primary challenges. for those of who not be following, what goes behind this race when it comes to the representative itself? >> this race has gotten probably more attention than any other horse race, at least outside of tennessee. the reason for that is that mr. dejerl is in fight of his life, running against a fellow republican by the name of jim tracy, a member of the tennessee general assembly, a state senator. the reason this race is getting a lot of attention is because of

some personal revelations about congressman dejerl's personal life, that came to light just a few days after he was re-elected in 2012. he had gone through a very difficult divorce a number of years ago, and his divorce records were unsealed just shortly after he was re-elected. and in these records, they showed that the woman that he was married to at the time, this is not the woman that he's married to now, the one he was married to at the time had gotten a couple of abortions with his approval. he is a physician and he also admitted in those divorce papers to having extramarital affairs with a number of his patients. all this is real problematic if you're a pro-life family values congressman as he has positioned himself. now people had kind of written him off and just assumed that he would lose in the primary, but in the past few weeks he -- his

campaign showed signs of life. he outraised mr. tracy in early july, which is -- would seem to indicate that you know, he does have some momentum here. and voters in interviews have kind of given the indication that they are in a forgiving sort of mood. so he -- some people think he may well pull this race off. host: michael collins with memphis commercial appeal. he's their washington correspondent talking about primary day in tennessee. mr. collins, thanks for your time. don't forget, join us tonight at 8:00 on c-span, a special program, taking a look at the senate primary races not only in tennessee but virginia and hawaii, as well. that starts at 8:00. you can see that live on c-span. go to the web site for more information. back to our question, taking a look on if your position changed on same-sex marriage. here is billy from miami, florida, independent line. caller: yes, good morning. my opinion has changed.

before i didn't care what other people used to say, and i'm a gay man, i served in the military i'm in a committed relationship, i have a mortgage and pay taxes. the one thing the straight community ought to think about there's a movement on now for social security survivor benefits for gay people, and we're working very hard to get that because the straight community has been ripping off the gay community for years. you've been taking our social security and then when one of us die we apply for it, you're not married. but you said we couldn't get married. so that kind of like -- we're coming for our money, it's just a matter of time. and yes my opinion has changed. now i'm a fighter because so many people are saying oh, well, those people, and god, and all that kind of jazz. that's baloney. it comes down to i paid it, i want it. thanks so much. host: washington, d.c. here is joan on the republican line. caller: good morning. i disagree with same-sex

marriages, and it doesn't have anything to do with the government, because in the beginning god created man, and so man created woman. he said be fruitful and multiply. and that means have children. no two men can make a baby. no two women can make a baby, so god did not create that. and people should not continue to say it came from god. now, as far as the government, what a person does in their personal life that has to do with them and god. and it has nothing to do with the government. so i don't agree with same-sex marriage, because two men cannot make a baby, and god said god created us all. host: a story about a pending settlement in the "washington post" this morning between the justice department and bank of

america. the nation's second largest bank is close to reaching the agreement to pay $16 billion to resolve allegations that it knowingly sold faulty mortgage secure it that's contracted to the financial crisis, according to people familiar with the talcs. if finalized the deal would be the largest penalty paid by a single company, topping the $13 billion settlement that j.p. morgan chase reached with their department, with the department last year, over similar charges. the accord would send bank of america's legal tab from the 2008 crisis soaring to 66 billion while securing another win for the justice department. california's next. here is bob from lawn dale, democrat's line. caller: hi there. i kind of became aware of gayness around 1958 or 1959, and formed an opinion that of my

group of the baby boomers, we were against -- most of us against the gay folks. since then i've met a few, and understand what their condition is, and it's not physical condition, it's a genetic condition. they don't choose to love who they love. it's natural to them. as far as the churches and marriage, i don't think a church should be forced to have gay marriages. if churches want to, that's fine. but all marriages are going to be legal marriages, have to get the paperwork from the government. you need the license from the government, and you can get married. host: we'll go to one more call, darrell, mobile, alabama. thanks for waiting. good morning. caller: hi. i was really going to go the way

of the equal protection people, but i have been raised christian myself, i want to ask my christian brothers and sisters, the whole homosexual debate, what are their views on divorce and adultery? i mean, those are things that are currently -- pretty much accepted in this particular society. come on, people. you know, equal protection under the law. thanks, pedro. host: that's the last call we'll take on this topic. and even though congress is on a break, the house foreign affairs committee subcommittee taking a look at african global affairs, will hold a hearing today on the ebola outbreak. joining us to talk about that hearing, and what's going on, is representative chris smith republican of new jersey. i'll talk with him next. later on in the program james z with the latest development in

the israel gas a conflict, as well as -- those discussions coming up on "washington journal" when we come back. >> while congress is in recess this month c-span's prime time programming continues at 8:00 p.m. eastern on friday with western conservative sum met. sunday, on q&a, ronald reagan biographer edmund morris. c-span two's big tv this weekend, friday night at eight eastern, the obamas versus the clinton and the autobiography of marion barry, junior.

bob woodward interviews formal counsel for president nixon, on the watergate scandal. book tv, television for serious readers. >> this month, c-span presents debates on what makes america great. evolution, and modified foods. issues spotlight with in-depth looks at veteran's health care, irs oversight, student loan debt and campus sexual assault. new perspectives on issues including global warming, fighting infectious disease and food safety. and our history tour, showing sights and sounds from america's historic places. find our tv schedule one week in advance at c-span.org. and let us know what you think about the programs you're watching. call us at (202)626-3400. or e-mail us at comments at

c-span.org. join the conversation, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us representative chris smith of new jersey. a representative of the fourth district of new jersey, good morning. even though congress is out a hearing today taking a look at ebola. >> it's actually an emergency

>> the end of the day it's left up to the fda and the scientific experts who really have to make the call. there are humanitarian compassionate waivers that can be given if somebody is dying, and again, if something obviously the fda often -- always looks first for safety,

and then for efficacy. now we have people who are dying in large numbers, and there are a number of drugs, even one that is being -- that is actually contracted by the department of defense, that in nonunions has had 100% suck rate. again they're in clinical trials, they've been halted for some reason, i don't know why. host: can congress pave the way and make the process smoother? guest: first and foremost, right now the height of the crisis, we can act as an oversight agent. making laws, case work and oversight, it's very important we do our oversight on this, and, of course, i know others are acting in good faith. nih is doing a wonderful job. we need to know, the american

people need to know, and if there are caps in the law, gaps in funding, and if there's any area where we need to craft new policy by way of legislation, hearings like this, many of my questions will focus on that. host: how prepared is the u.s. prepared for e bowe louisiana? guest: great question. they're all in contact with cdc. and making sure that at points of entry like the airport, if there's some suspicion somebody may be with a fever, again coming from that part of the world, it becomes a little more dicier when somebody is on a connecting flight, may not be coming right from -- maybe they're coming from frankfort or somewhere else and do we catch what their place of origination was for that flight or that passenger? so there is concerns about that. we are prepared, as they have said, again, cdc and nih

respectively, we are prepared to cordon off people where you have very advanced health care capacity. it would appear we have the capability to put someone in isolation and use the kind of best practices, including heavy suiting, by the doctors and health care personnel, so they don't get it. and that's part of the big problem in africa. i've been in health clinics and hospitals all over africa, and i can tell you while they are trying to build up that capacity, and president bush's program on hv aides, ma larry a, not only has helped to combat those terrible and dreaded diseases it's also helped to set up a health care grade and capabilities and best practices. but there's much to be done in order to build up that infrastructure. host: what's your level of concern that two americans are

being treated state side for ebola? guest: i'm glad that they're getting that treatment. the fact that they got z-mapp, they may be on the mend and we have sim, as well as samaritan's purse, the two phase based organizations who are there, simply because first and foremost they love god and they love people, and they are providing health care in the most difficult of circumstances, but i think you know this may be a way forward for the others who are sick, you know, there are risks when you take something that has not gone through all the clinical trials, like drugs ought to go influence and do go through, so there was a risk on both of their parts. but i believe that both individuals felt and their friends and family that the risks were mitigated by the possible positive outcomes that z-mapp, which is the drug in question, the intervention could

produce. host: out of concern that they're treated in the u.s.? guest: we have containment. they were flown over on a flight that was completely contained. the ambulance and the final setting in emery hospital was done in a way so that -- we know a whole lot, you never know anything, as a country, as do other western democracies about infectious disease. i think in this case, it's been done by the book. but the hope and the concern is about all the other health care workers, both indigenes, as well as the foreigners, we have two of the three nongovernmental organizations doing yeomans work to help people sick with ebola, so -- and then of course, the victims themselves, who throughout, what, 1700 plus people who have been affected by this disease, and this again, this outbreak so far exceeds every other previous outbreak,

the number of fatalities from previous ebola problems have been on the order of highest was about 400 dead. we're more than double that now, and we're -- there's no end in sight so far. host: representative smith overseas that hearing that you can see on c-span. taking a look at ebola and issues stemming from it. again, live at 2:00. if you want to ask questions about this, and directly, (202) 585-3881 our line for republicans. (202) 585-3880 for democrats, and (202) 585-3882 for independents. here is james from maryland, democrats line, you're on with representative chris smith. go ahead. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i want to say i think the work that these missionaries were doing in africa was a honorable thing, driven by their faith and

i applaud that but i also feel that nobody has the right to expose 350 million people to this disease there is no cure formen. i feel if the people infected were truly about faith they would tell their loved ones and everybody that got ears to listen treat me here, because i think it's wrong. i think this is a matter of humanity, and it's not right to expose 315 million people to this type of disease, which spreads like wildfire. it's wrong. i'm a democrat, and i believe that everybody from the speaker to the floor sweeper and everybody in between should do something about this, because this is wrong. guest: if i could, first and foremost, their reentry into the united states was done in such a by the book best practices as i said earlier so that the

possibility of any kind of contamination was very, very small, if at all. the real concern is this explosion of ebola continues, it's from those people who as we've already seen in nigeria, which had not had this, and i've been to nigeria in the past, and there's already some fatalities there, but people who then travel. the incue bags period is between two and 21 days. the manifestation of ebola might not be felt right away, or apparent. and then all of a sudden fever kicks in, they're on a flight coming into the united states or into europe or latin america or anywhere else, as well as other african countries, as people do move and they move frequently.

the biggest concern is points of entry, which is why there is a containment effort, and why the cdc is looking at the points of entry to try to ensure if there is the slightest chance of somebody who has been affected or infected by ebola that they would -- they could be isolated and everyone else who may have come in contact, the conventional wisdom so far, and this could change, is that this is not picked up by breath or by in the air. but it's usually by touch, some kind of bodily fluid, which is why the health care workers are so at risk because they have hands on when they deal with their patients.

he sacrificed, his family has, as have these other faith-based individuals, but they took a risk. no one is sure. we will have governmental organizations having hearings today to learn how they are doing, how others are doing, how the ministries and health intervention they are part of our doing, but we are not sure of the risk. they might be the trailblazers. seattle, washington.

you are on a representative chris smith. caller: here is what i am confused with. paidnot know if anyone has attention, but all of these diseases have come out of africa. people have these answers, but nobody really knows. if it takes you three weeks to realize that you have the disease, where does it even come from? airborne, andnot you get it through bodily fluids and blood, but if i am not spitting on you, or touch your blood, how my getting it? being transferred, to allow them back over here when it,now there is no cure for to me it sounds like we are to get rid of people over here -- population. allt: let me say first of much of the contagion now, 1700-plus that have it, is from human content --

contact, but the best knowledge of this is the fruit that in batca b --at -- fruit seems to be the suspected culprit of the ebola virus. secondly, again, things can happen in terms of mutations and diseases. there is always a sense of deep concern at what this could become. there are five different versions of ebola. for the record, the first time we discovered it was back in 1976 when there was an outbreak thehat was then zaire near ebola river. that is how it got its name. animals seemed the point of transfer and then it is human to

human. there is also concern about the fact that this deadly virus, the ebola virus, can continue to exist in a fluid situation. water, for example. a moist, petri dish situation occurring naturally. bloody, or some other bodily fluid from an animal or a human. lefthe place where this is -- that is why there is a very strong concern about not just how people deal on a health-care basis with ebola and health care practitioners in these countries, but also burial. righty touch the body, before burial, they can get ebola, and that is a deep concern. the questions -- countries in question, new guinea, sierra

leone, liberia, and now nigeria are admonishing people -- the burial has to be quick and it has to not involve contact. host: do we have personnel in both areas? guest: we have people on the ground from usaid, people under contract, and the cdc has deployed experts on infectious disease to work with and coordinate. the world health organization has done likewise. they worked on an emergency appropriation. the regional countries -- their health ministries are all coordinating so that this does not multiply or move out country after country. like i said, nigeria was not on the list until recently. legos is a country with about 21 million people, some say more. i have been there on a combating human traffic mission of years

ago, and people there are at risk. hopefully it is contained. containment is the key. the only thing that can be done -- the caller was right -- there is no cure yet, and hopefully there will be one soon and maybe these drugs will make a difference. trial doneclinical by a company in canada. according to them, the nonhuman 100%tes, results were protection from otherwise legal virus. of zaire ebola one of the questions i will have four tom frieden today is how can that be -- without hurting the protocols are undermining the protocols for safety and efficacy -- how can this be more aggressively put forward?

one reason there is not a lot of testing is these outbreaks flareup, go very quickly, and then they are gone. there have been many of them. this one may be different and that is why we are more concerned than ever. host: daniel. up next. west virginia, democrats want. go ahead -- democrats line. go ahead. ask, ii wanted to do not know if he was aware of the africa summit that just took place, and trade with africa. guest: i have been very much a part of it, and i spoke yesterday in one of the house office buildings. i was at a brookings institution dialogue with people involved with the africa summit, and then committee, if the

joined some of my colleagues in welcoming the heads of state as they filed into a meeting room right here on the senate side and at that one meeting after another talking about issues like combating human trafficking. countries in question like liberia did not come because of the ebola crisis. they are attending to the emergency. for all of the others, probably 20 to presidents and prime ministers during the last week. i had several one-on-one missions. c-span had me on to talk about this recently. within the last 10 months i have been back to nigeria. i went to a place where churches bocaeen firebombed by boca around, that

terrible group of terrorist. i met one of the girls that escaped. we are working, trying to get nigeria and the u.s. and other countries that are concerned to train a more capable military for counterterrorism efforts. there is a little bit going on. beingis a one battalion stood up, but boko haram is in ascendancy, not the sentencing. nigerians a number of at the summit. they now have some cases of ebola. they're very concerned. goodluck jonathan, i have met with them both here and there, and he has made it clear they will leave no stone unturned in making sure it is contained. representative smith, we have the suffolk twitter --

where is the u.n.? why are they not on top of the virus outbreak? guest: they are concerned, but there are other organizations. the world health organization has at a special meeting just to look at ebola and they are very much on the job to make sure this is not spread to anywhere else and for those that have been affected, that they are given the best possible health care treatment. spearheaded,rit -- as i think i indicated, the $200 million initiative, and there are other ngo's and other organizations focused on this. it is not basically a general assembly issue, although it will come up there eventually, or the security council, but the world health organization is focused. there is a partnership between the governments regionally, the african union, which is based in ethiopia, our government, the

european governments. what is being done has gone into high-gear. we were a little slow out-of-the-box when this started to manifest early in the year, and when i say we i mean the global community, but in the past these outbreaks have been intense, lethal, and then they abate, but they are now in urban centers. going back to some earlier callers, people should be concerned, especially by people coming in by way of aircraft. host: there are stories about representative alan grayson talking about a temporary ban. would you support that? that questionask today. we have to be careful not to experts.et ahead of

that is why i invited tom frieden. this is what they do for living. it is not mean they are always right, but those of us that right laws need to get their input. tom from ohio,t: independent line. caller: thank you. every day.tch you i think it is great that christians and people are helping people, but my concern thehe fact that -- i was in medical field, and there are times when people get used to the idea of taking people in isolation, and they become desensitized to the illness or .he disease and become careless withe seen that happen other diseases. what is your answer to this? guest: that is a very insightful

question. anyously, in any hospital, carelessness or dropping one's guard when it comes to proper handwashing, suiting up, plastic gloves -- all of the other things can lead to the spread of infection and the contracting of that infection by the health worker. as far as we can tell, people like dr. kent brantly were taking every precaution, were very aggressive in making sure again,d not happen, but, ebola is so contagious. when you are a health care professional and you are doing your due diligence to help your , missed that one, small opportunity for the infection to make its way into you does exist, and that apparently is what has happened. if you look in history, one of -- father damien, who worked among the lepers in hawaii for so many years before

he contracted it himself, just unbelievable, inspirational character. story, asd about his many have as well, and he is honored in the capital. there are so many people. they're such courageous, and whoely unheralded people take the gospel, particularly christians and others of faith as well, but my favorite scripture happens to be matthew 25 when "when i was hunger, did you feed me, naked, did you cl oth me, and whatever you did to you did on to me . so there are huge gaps in economics, health, and these people go into the most remote areas where infection, war, terrorism, threatens their lives

and they do it out of the love of god and love of neighbor that is all-inspiring. purse -- samaritan's purse, all of these groups, they go where people would not dare to go. eight be lifted up. need to be praying for them -- they need to be lifted up. we need to be praying for them. they are the frontline of containing this so that it does not spread. dr. kent brantly, he is well regarded. he is the one that is suffering, ,long with ms. nancy writebol and they are part of a larger group of the state-based people all over the world host:. -- world. host: ron. wisconsin. c-span would have

gotten an expert from getting sick -- instead of getting secondhand information from the congressman, but i would like to know if the congressman knows this -- if this virus could mutate and become airborne? what are the odds that could happen? one of the things about being a policy maker -- and i read a lot of laws. i have two laws on the president's desk right now, one beganild abduction, and i a national initiative to combat autism and the president will be signing a bill that i authored that provides for the nih, the centers for disease control, the issue of autism, and i take your point. i do not think it is secondhand. we do our due diligence as policymakers, as lawmakers. the reason i'm having a hearing

today is to hear from the people that are on the frontline, including dr. tom frieden, who heads up the centers for disease control and prevention, cdc, two ask him and others that will be ,here very pertinent questions so we receive their testimony and we are more informed and hopefully our policies, resources -- our money, the money that we allocate as federal funds, is used but only to mitigate this disease and all the other infectious diseases. george w. bush, when he did the $5 billion program, he probably got some of his information secondhand from health-care bigrts and person, who is a advocate, one of his top lieutenants, but as a policy maker he said we're going to make a difference combating aids

in africa and other places. child transmission has been greatly reduced. when a woman is hiv-positive gives birth there are drugs that can now almost completely eliminate the transference of hiv-aids to that little baby. it has saved the lives of millions of people in africa. of secondhand knowledge, i hear your point. that is why we bring in experts. i have held about 500 hearings as a member of congress in a chairman's position, and as ranking member what we are not in the majority, hundreds more. the hearing process is one of the greatest assets of the house and senate or any legislative body because you get to your themthe experts and ask

the toughest of questions. you hear from both sides, typically when there is a difference of opinion among medical experts and that helps to form better opinions to allocate resources. because you are in break, how many members of the subcommittee will be that? guest: we have a number of people coming. i called some on the phone. i apologize first. the genesis came by samaritan's purse and a man named isaacs that will be testifying today. i have been raising the issue of ebola for months, and the experts were handling it, we believed, and we hope they were doing it in the most robust profession. abated,break has not and it has gotten worse by the day. it raises questions about why this is different.

and again, dr. kent brantly is one of their employees deployed to liberia. i got on the phone and i said we need to have a hearing now and we cannot wait until september. some of the members have gone away with their families, and we will miss that -- miss them. robert venture will be there. my ranking member, karen bass, will also be there. we will have some members there, but what we say is not nearly as here fromas will be the experts and i am very grateful c-span will make sure the american public hears. c-span will air this hearing live at 2:00 p.m. find out more on our website, c-span.org. kristin from texas, go ahead. kristin from texas? caller: hi, can you hear me? host: go ahead.

caller: i read online that a study conducted in 2012 show that ebola was able to travel between pigs and monkeys in separate cages and never placed dr. gary contact, and at the public health agency of canada toldbbc news -- that he believes it was spread through droplets in the air and this is not what i have heard from television and you on this program. everyone says it is from touch contact. although what i have read says it is technically not airborne, to me it seems like it is semi-airborne, and why is nobody talking about this? guest: i think that is an excellent question. the jury is out for all of us. we have been told, and i have read the guidance from the cdc

and others, and my own health department, and that is passed through from the experts of the cdc about it not being a transmission via airborne mode. i will ask that question, and i will look up to study you mention a moment ago in 2012. look up theern, -- study you mentioned a moment ago in 2012. it is a concern if it is just a sneeze and in the air. thickly on airplane, when somebody uses the -- particularly on airborne -- on an airplane, when somebody uses the bathroom, or getting their luggage down from the overhead -- we do not want an income that we want to be as vigilant as we panic -- we do not want a , but we want to be as vigilant as we can be.

my district office, i can throw a baseball and reach centerstate banks it is that close. there were several trucks outside of the medical center just yesterday. everybody wants to know. the purpose of the hearing is to provide another venue and platform for the most knowledgeable people on it to tell the story. and this is the first in a series of hearings. one of the things that i am going to ask at the hearings, and i have done this informally, and will now doing officially, are there any policies that need upgrading or reform? do any to put more money into this? i will give you an example. i have been working for years on what we called neglected tropical diseases. there are 17 of them. ebola certainly ought to be included in terms of research and neglect, and what most people would not have guessed because it is not as prevalent

ofe although in some parts the country it is increasingly, one billion people have worms and parasites. the man who asked about the friday tospoke last dr. shaw. we're working closely on something called the first 1000 days of life, from conception to the second birthday. time, get that period of and you feed the child, and make sure the mother is well-nourished, and supplementation occurs, thickly with things like for like acid -- one of the things -- particularly with things like for like acid. .- folic acid if a woman gets folic acid in the three months preceding her pregnancy, especially in the orst month, the risk for asd

autism spectrum disorder, according to at least three studies, can drop by as much as 40%. every woman of childbearing age should absolutely be taking folic acid and other supplementation to reduce the risk of not only autism, but other kinds of diseases. -- theret 1000 days was a faith-based meeting that kicked off the africa summit, and all of these faith-based meetings, and we talked about nutrition. my point is we want to feed the future, but we do not want to beat -- feed the worms. it reduces immunity capability. doctor fromg with a ghana, told me children were heing to their clinics, and

said i thought something was wrong with my child, the urine was clear. was read, other's tainted. i am working on a bill that would increase the commitment to try to eradicate these tropical diseases. today's hearing comports with that effort to save these infectious diseases, these parasites. host: will continue that thought. another call. columbus, ohio. mary. republican line. you're on with chris smith. caller: i have one question and a question. i do not seriously believe that the cdc who supposedly in the news was responsible for bringing back the two sick people who have the disease from africa, i think that was criminal, and i think the president of the united states should have definitely canceled the summit.

now, sir, i know you said you were involved in parts of the summit, and you made the comment that if someone has the disease, a dead person, and if you touch a dead person, you can get the disease, and did you shake anyone's hand? did you go to the grocery store? if someone is infectious, that is very serious. be very warye to of saying that everyone that comes from africa is now a carrier of ebola. it is all about risk mitigation theensuring -- which is why idea of surveillance at airports is so important. 50 -- i must have shipped 500 hands and had conversations with afghan leaders and their staff. host: you're not concerned.

guest: i'm not concerned. host: charles. last caller. tennessee. caller: my question is with all of the publicity of this being what are we doing for terrorists that may want to get it or bring it to us another -- or another country? tears? host: terrorism. oh, terrorists. i think suicidal terrorists are everywhere but they are more likely to be carrying ammunition and explosives, which is why we screen so aggressively at airports and elsewhere to lessen the possibility. i do not think -- host: i think he meant it as a means of biological warfare. guest: we do have dedicated

, the department of defense, and elsewhere that look at germ agents, chemical, biological, nuclear, of course, and other weapons of mass destruction. surveillance,ood never perfect, ironclad, or airtight, but ever since 9/11 the united states government has been as robust as it could be, and the 9/11 commission chaired by tom kane, my former governor, offered a blueprint that share those initiatives as well. i got a bill passed myself with , so theto the v.a. federal government is really on the ball here trying to lessen those risks. i do not think ebola lens itself ds itself to that kind of terrorism, but the point bears

consideration. determine made a good point. host: as this continues, do you see a call for federal money specifically to this? guest: with regards to terrorism part? host: with ebola as it goes abroad. work. i mentioned the there was a grant from the department of defense to work on ebola. there is no doubt that ebola is in the mix at what is being looked at by our government with all the potential weapons that could be used. the anthrax attack against post offices, right here in washington, in new jersey, my home county, that close the entire hamilton town post office. gotany that several people -- several people had been held

anthrax. that turned out to be a domestic act of terrorism because they did catch the man they believe did it. the myriad of threats that we face them chemical agents, biological germs, and almost without number, but again, on ebola, there is money being expended, and these trials been done by the company are directly from the department of defense, and we could do more, and that will be one of the considerations going forward. host: the hearing, again, 2:00 p.m. this afternoon, which you can see live on c-span, overseen by our guest, chris smith from new jersey. thank you for your time. guest: thank you. host: next we will have a discussion about what is going on in israel and gaza with james gosling -- james zogby. times" joiniscal

us. first, an update from c-span radio. thedward snowden says whistleblower has been given permission to stay in russia for three more years. he was given temporary asylum that ran out august 1. russia is banning most food imports from the west in retaliation for food sanctions in the ukraine, a sweeping move that will cost western farmers billions of dollars but could lead to empty shelves in russian cities. the russian prime minister says the band covers all imports of meat, fish, fruits and vegetables from the u.s., the european union, australia, canada, and norway. finally, veterans are expected to have an easier time getting government-paid health care from local dollars. under a bill that president obama signs into law today, the $16.3 billion measure allows the

veterans affairs department to hire doctors, nurses, and other professionals at the nearly 1000 hospitals and outpatient clinics nationwide. live coverage of the president signing the v.a. bill around 11:20 a.m. this morning on c-span radio and c-span television. some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. tv" onrican history -- watergate, 40 years later with a cbs special report and president nixon's address to the nation. life --rell nick sent's on nixon's life and legacy. sunday at 8:00, gerald ford becomes the president of the united states. this weekend on "american history tv."

in recessongress is this month, c-span's prime time programming continues friday with the western conservative summit in denver. gates,y, robert madeleine albright, and condoleezza rice on the situation in the ukraine, and sunday, ronald reagan biographer edward notice -- edward norris. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now is james the arab american institute founder and president. what has to go into a long-term cease-fire in gaza? guest: a long-term cease-fire has to include really for the people of that very depressed strip of land. anita and opening to the outside world, and it is not just sincehama -- since hamas took over.

since 1994 there was a restriction on labor crossing gaza, and israel is not allowing imports are experts for gaza to freely deal with the outside world. source of largest wealth were day labor jobs in israel. when they close the border, unemployment skyrocketed, and we are still at the point where gaza cannot import or export freely, and the result is 70% youth unemployment, very limited except through the tunnels that have come in, so there is a real need to open gaza, to give people opportunity and hope they can have a better future. host: so when it comes to the long-term solution? long-term solution is freedom and independence for the palestinian people. we have talked about statehood, it will have in the right to determine their own future.

i have not been given that right -- they have not been given that right. unless there is a recognition of full sovereignty, not just within the prison walls, but the ability to freely move in the world, there is not going to be a solution. they need an independent state. is a story in "the wall street journal," as far as ,iscussions going on in cairo letting the palestinian authority take control. guest: nobody wants to ride in on the back of the israeli tanks. if it is a freely agreed upon solution by the palestinian parties, that could work. was apeful thing is there reconciliation agreement. israel did not recognize it. the u.s. did. israel tried to scratch the agreement, and then try to literally destroy hamas, but the reconciliation has held the. you have a combined negotiating

team in cairo right now working together to find a solution. i would hope that they would agree they should be but one police force, one armed presence, and that should be through the palestinian authority. if that is the case, we're on the road to a solution. ,ost: when it comes to hamas how do you handle that and the lyrical and military side of that is political and military side of that? guest: they have made some bad choices, their ideology cannot be endorsed, and the tactics have been the portable. the suicide bombing was --damentally wrong and evil and deplorable. the suicide bombing was fundamentally wrong and evil. been terrorist groups that have moved into governments.

the african national congress was a terrorist group. the point is are they ready to turn a corner? if they are ready to turn a corner, then i do not think one should box back into a corner, as netanyahu did, but we should allow the reconciliation process to work through. understand that the current wave of violence started with the tragic kidnapping and killing of those three young men, but then continued with 400 hamas leaders in the west bank arrested, and israel bombarding gaza, and hamas responding to that. it is as if israel created a trap and hamas and in responding, hamas created a trap, and israel went into it. the two of them paid a price. we have to go back to the beginning as hard as it is and say what we do to get out of out isnd the way to get

opportunity and hope for the people of gaza, adult and independence. mr. manana spoke in a press conference addressing these issues and hamas as well. [video clip] >> nearly everyone says they support israel's right to defend itself and we appreciate those who say this, but there are those that refuse to recognize or let israel exercise that right. to attack allow hamas with impunity because they say they are fine from schools, mosques, hospitals, and israel should not take action against him. that is obviously a mistake. it is a moral mistake. it is an operational mistake. it would legitimize the use of human shields and hand an enormous victory to terrorists everywhere in a devastating effect to the free societies that are fighting terrorism. if this were to happen, more and

more civilians will die around the world, because this is a testing period now. can a terrorist organization fire thousands of rockets at the cities of a democracy? can a terrorist organization and dhat itself in civilian -- embe itself in civilian areas, dig tunnels in civilian areas, and do so with impunity because accounts on the victimized country to respond as it must, as any country would, and be blamed for it. host: mr. zogby? respondo many things to to. let me just say that in the also, can weld, continue to accept a country occupying and strangling and denying freedom and rights to an entire other people? emerges, when conflict

using disproportionate violence and force, taking a tremendous toll in human life? look, israel has the right to defend itself. everybody does, but when you use the right as badly as they do, i thank you for fit the right in the eyes of the -- for fit -- forfeited the right in the eyes of the international community. it is also -- bombing the power plant -- what is the point other than to deny people, not just electricity during a very hot period of time, but also deny them water because was a -- water in gaza comes through electric pumping. the crimes committed during this assault on gaza go beyond an occasional accidental target and

it does not hold. we tell our kids you cannot say "i am sorry, but." it does not work for me for netanyahu to say "i'm sorry there were civilian casualties, but they made us do it." nothing made them strangling population, deny them their freedom and the ability to grow, and transform themselves into a functioning society. it is israel that created this, and they owe it to themselves to own it and create -- take paternity, responsibility, for what they have done in gaza. it is a terrible crime. the prime minister might try to do this cleanup operation to straighten out the world, and if you do not agree with me, you are not on the civilized side, you are on the barbarian side. it does not wash. there were wrongs committed here. hamas clearly committed wrongs,

but israel, as the occupying force has special responsibilities and they have not lived up to those responsibilities. host: james zogby of the arab american institute to take your calls. athens, ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. work,gby, i respect your but as you said, this has been going on a long time, 5, 6 decades. this is the first time that i think the american public -- i'm a media watcher, right, left, and center, and i think this is the first time the american media has shown what the palestinian people have been going through for decades. in 2008, israel blocked journalists from reporting what was going on. if you could talk about what is going on in the media, and while we hang -- while we hearing

pundits talk about the people of gaza and said of the palestinians living in gaza? westn put up a map of the think and israel, and they continually put up an accurate maps of what is taking place? if you could comment on that. maps, i have not seen the but i can't comment on media. you're right. television has done a much better job, a fundamentally better job than we have seen before, and the folks, some of the people from cnn on the ground there covering, and some of those from nbc on the ground covering have done a brilliant job and i appreciate that. print media, not so good. i think print media has continued to suffer from what i call the fundamental distortion of the issue, which goes back before the conflict. it goes back to the early period ,n the 1920's and the 1930's

where israel is seen as the bastion of western civilization going into the harbor us world westerno create a outpost. they were dealing with what they called the red indians, how they characterize the indigenous people, the palestinians, and it stayed that way. "thete a critical piece in washington post," a while back, and a column in "the huffington post," and i noted that when they focus on the palestinians in an enormous body count, going to get the israelis, there was the face of the prison, interviews with the mother, interviews with the citizens. the lost israelis were humanized. the lost palestinians were objectified and presented as a lump sum. that is a problem of print media and i think it is still a problem. television has done a somewhat

better job, certainly from the earlier gaza assault that you noted when television did nothing but cover it from outside of the borders. this time they had people on the ground doing, i think, a very extraordinary work. i appreciated that. i will tell you, there was a piece in "the new york times," version, in the online a gaza diary. look it up. just extraordinary. look up el monitor, the news and lghoulation website and a -- she has done a great job on the ground day today telling the story of what gazans are enduring. some of it is heartbreaking, but all of it is informing. is the kind of thing and should be doing but it is -- print

should be doing but it is not owing. a column --host: a column written by august can be found on our website. joseph. i never couldler: understand why the israelis think they have authority over the entire region. they only have authority in israel. the blockade against the palestinians is an act of war. they have every right to fight as hard as they can because they have no rights to do anything outside of israel. of thethe issue occupation is ignored, and israel makes the case that they left gaza in 2005. if you leave gaza, take your settlements out, continue to air, and c,by land, then you have not left. what you have done, and they hate this term, but it is a fact -- they have created an open air prison. there are young people in the

who have never had a job, have no prospects of a job, and it never left gaza because they cannot get out. that is under occupation. when the oslo peace agreement was signed, there were 170 thousand settlers in the west bank. today there are almost 600,000 in occupied lands it has tripled since we signed the oslo agreements. they say we honor the of course and the palestinians have not. the issue of occupation is fundamental and has been ignored in the media. israel says they have the right to defend themselves, but they do not have the right to strangle people in gaza. they do not have the right to build on other people's land, to confiscate lands, to demolish homes, to deny people the opportunity to import, export, and grow an economy. i had the latent -- the latin patriarch, the catholic bishop

of jerusalem, talking about a convent right outside of jerusalem, in land that is not jerusalem, but israel has occupied it and called the jerusalem, and israel is taking the land of the convent, denying them access to their school, putting up an almost 30-foot wall with a date that will allow the kids from the villages to go through the gate through security checkpoints to the school, but otherwise they will not have the ability to go there on the playground, and deal with after school activities. there also pulling up the vineyard that makes wine that is used at all tours around the world as altar wine and also the olive orchard that has been there for hundreds of years. -- patriarch was urging americans to do something to stop this. tons of issues like this -- israel has no right to continue doing it, and yet they do, and they escape with impunity.

there is simply no sanction from the united states in any of this behavior. host: roberta. california. republican line. go ahead. i am 77 years old and i have never heard anything from theisraelis that they want palestinians off of the face of the earth, but i have heard however the hamas organization definitely wants the israelis off the face of the earth. withnot think we can deal people who absolutely, for whatever reason, take in hamas like they are the red cross, when obviously they are not. i do not know how we try to justify these things. i have seen an awful lot of an awful loteing of the same kind of garbage conversations and i do not think anyone should be mistreated or

in any way cap from reaching their potential, but i do think we need to do a little bit of looking around because i see our young people in this country having the very same kind of thing going on with them. their potential is not being realized, they are encouraged to go into debt, there are no jobs for them. host: ok, caller. thank you. guest: thank you. listen, from the very outset israel sought to create a jewish state, and i understand the yearning of people. is thedo not understand displacement of palestinians and i cannot tolerate or accept that. today exceptrians the fact that they committed ethnic cleansing against palestinians. a book just recently out and highly acclaimed, even though he attempts to reconcile himself to the fact -- i do not, because i

have spent time with palestinians in refugee camps in lebanon, he makes the case that we did it, yeah, we did it, and he lays out in detail how they expel the people. maybe some palestinians said they wanted to wipe israel off the earth, but israel actually did wipe palestinians off. they destroyed 323 villages and what became israel. they simply demolish them so that the refugees outside had no place to go. they forcibly expelled them. they try to do the same kind of cleanup operation after the war -- "no, no, no, we did not force them out. ."eir leaders told him to go historians are now making the case that they did order them to leave, they did create panic and fear and force them out. let me also say that it is true that there are deplorable things said on the palestinian side and they should the announced and

condemned by those that say them, -- denounced and condemned by those that say them, but there are deplorable things being said on the israeli side and they are not being taken note of. there are jewish writers in israel and in the united states today pulling out these quotes that we should commit genocide, take them all out, they're women, we should do this or that to them. website, ornberg's the recent piece by andrew sullivan on his site. there are articles making clear that there is extremist language on both sides. do not humanize one and demonize the other. look at both. both societies have their flaws, their pluses, and their good sides, but we have to see both. this is a conflict between two human groups of people, not between humanity and barbarism. that is not the case at all.

so, get a rounded picture of both sides, and i think you will understand the difficulty that we face here a lot clear. chicago. independent line. c-span.thank you for i watch as much as i can. i have a question. i have been following what has been happening there from what i have ready, and i am trying to get a hold on this -- isn't it just that palestine was invaded displaceded in 1940i european jews that did not want to go back to europe after the war, and for some reason they were not accepted here in the united states. i know,, as far as without any consultation with the palestinians. her country was overran -- and their country was overran and occupied. if the people trying to get

their country back. i cannot see what is wrong with that mms in a point there? missing a-- am i point there? also, why is the united states supporting this? again, i think the u.s. is on the wrong side. government support over the years has been a mystery to me. i'm wondering if you can address that, and clear up what possible justification could there be for the israelis to occupied palestine. conflictt: the actually began in the form that it takes place right now after world war i. arabs were promised that if they joined the allies against the axis, they would get independence, an independent arab state. at the same time the british were assigning letters to the arabs promising them independence from the ottoman

empire, they were also making an andement with the french, accord in which they pledged --ng themselves to decide and the region into spheres of influence with the french control in one part, and the british on in another, and the -- at the same time, they were signed and agreed with the world zionist movement saying we will give you a jewish state. the reason britain said we will recognize a jewish homeland was to protect the northern part of the suez canal. they needed a company. britain occupied and colonized places through companies. they use to frame the zionist movement as if it were one of their companies that would operate and help control the region for them, but it did not work out because the arabs do not accepted. woodrow wilson, american president at the time, said we should give people the right to determine what they want for themselves, so he commissioned a survey called the king crane

commission. it is the first time the arab was ever polled. my brother and i are in the polling business. the one that he is actually started in and made the family name can we value the king crane commission because it was the first time a whole was done in the arab world, and it was also the first time a poll was done in the arab world and had been ignored, as many have been sent. an overwhelming majority, in the 90%-range -- in the said no, they wanted a unitary state, and they rejected the zionist claim to palestine. wilson argued for it. you.ritish said damn said theour aspirations of the 700,000 meane people of that land

nothing to me. i will ignore them in favor of the zionist movement. that means much more to me. that was the beginning of this whole issue back then. yes, the holocaust played a role, because it certainly sent lots of people who were escaping the orders of europe's 2 -- horrors of europe to palestine and it fueled the concept further, but the palestinians were resisting the notion that their land should be promised to other people early on. there was a wonderful u.n. document -- i was on c-span a while ago and told people the same thing. it is on my website. -- j zogbyil me at y ogby, i will e-mail

you the trajectory. host: a viewer off of twitter says that the people of gaza realize that hamas brings only death to them, can the people renew -- remove hamas from power? guest: we did a poll and said if you thought these were possible, who would you vote for, and 70% said they would vote for the party of mahmoud abbas. dated nothing piece was possible. -- they did not think peace was possible. that you need to transform the economy of gaza some people do not fear despair. people turn to extremism when they feel hopeless and despair. if you want to change the width people think you give them -- if you want to change the way people think, you give them opportunity and hope and options in their lives. if we fundamentally transform the conditions of life and gaza,

a legsimply will not have to stand on, but as long as we continue the blockade, deny them importing, exporting, the ability to leave the country -- there were american fulbright fellows and israel would not let them out. as long as you continue to do that, you make them pray that this kind of extremist movement -- to this kind of extremist movement. it is something that we ought to have a goal -- change the politics of the palestinians in gaza. they, in all of our polling show insteadnot favor hamas of other movements, but we force them into that mode by not giving them that option. host: another viewer -- don't the people of palestine have to get rid of their hatred of israel before they can ever become a state? ift: if israel did --guest: israel did things to stop them

from hating them, then we could start. israel did not just kill hope, it killed cases where families were born, rituals were celebrated, destroyed entire 1800 people,led 9000 wounded, and 60 that thousand people now without homes at all to go back to. it is a tough sell to say do not look this way, look that way. i understand, that give people a moment to grieve and to be angry. they are deserving of it. it always amazes me that the powerful are entitled to anger but we deny the victims the right to anger. the powerful, we allow them to say we're vulnerable, victims, and we are suffering, so please defend us. but we do not allow the powerless in does that to say we

are victims and we are suffering , filling loss right now, and we and in despair and maybe even a little revenge. with human to deal beings, understand why their emotions are the way they are. it does not justify them, but it helps us understand what they are so we can help move them to the next stage. host: thomas is next from san jose, california for our guest james zogby. caller: thank you for c-span, and thank you, mr. zogby. i really appreciate the education that you are providing me and all of the american people on this issue. important -- so your message is not getting out to the major media whatsoever. encourage people to learn about this struggle, because it is so important with

the truth is here. i think that the only real solution to this problem will come once israel agrees to all of theom occupied territories, not just gaza which technically they do not occupy at the moment but they control everything that gaza does. it is basically a ghetto, like you say, a prison. fromsrael has to back off its hegemonic control of the palestinian people and their way of life. guest: i agree. you know, the way to solve this is to separate. i would love to see reconciliation. but at this point, i think reconciliation comes after separation.

space need to have some to they need to be in a position where they can feel free, unencumbered -- not just free in their little town or village, but really free, free to build a society and grow an economy, free to see their children have jobs and hope and bring home grandkids and have a different life. this notion that palestinians celebrate death is nonsense and evil. it is a racist notion that tries to absolve the killer and blame the victim. sayit means that those who it either do not understand or do not want to understand the palestinian reality. i do not want to see anybody -- i do not just the jewish babies dying, arab babies dying. i do not want to see children of freight in israel or in palestine. but at the point where we are right now, people need to be

separated so that they can, each of them, have their own rights protected within their own society. i will tell you, israel built the wall. the problem i have with that wall, build it on your own damn to build a are going wall, but it snakes in and out of the west bank. it takes valuable property. it denies palestinians in some villages to go to their land. it was built illegally on palestinian land in the west bank. but separation may be the thing in order right now. otherwise we are heading for another century of conflict, which is not going to do anybody any good. i mean, if israel wants to be free and be protected, they have to understand that palestinians want to be free and protected, too. have hiserson cannot rights and freedom while stepping on the throat of another person and expect that person not to resist them a not to be angry. if america really were to care

and want to be peacemaker, it needs to be firmer in asserting that the occupation has to end. not just let's try to do it and play the role of convener and then walked out and try to let them solve it themselves. they cannot solve it themselves. anthologies have taken hold on both sides that sort of inhibit them from doing it. america and the world has to be firm and say -- enough is enough, separate and separate now. host: riverside, california, democrat line. when israel first started, didn't like six countries attacked them and they won? that littleme israel, the size of new jersey, i think, if anyone was surrounded by a bunch of nations that they knew disliked them, and there is a strain of evil people that really want to

, i think i would be pretty paranoid. and if i had the choice of letting somebody, you know, have the freedom that i knew they had embedded, you know, these people that are the ones that want to destroy them, i think anybody would go to any means to survive. that is what the israelis are doing. god chose them because they were the first one to worship the true christian god. at the end, jesus is going to come act to save them. i am not sure that jews were the first one to worship the christian god. they actually worship a jewish god. then jesus came and it was a change in the message. and then muslims. ,he -- believe mohammed came and they faced the same god, but all three affirm a belief in the

same god. but i do not think muslims call it the christian god or the jewish god. i do not think christians: the jewish god or jews call it the christian god. let's be clear, there are some differences in the three. but with regard to the question of the fear and the six nations attacking israel, none of those six nations ever entered what the u.n. called the jewish state. they were trying to save the remnants of what was left of the arab states because the jewish armies were actually advancing into those areas. if you look at what became israel, it was much greater than what the u.n. had partitioned as the jewish state. arabs, yes, they rejected that partition or they rejected that petition because what was to be the jewish state was 55% arab,

even though it included almost all the jews living in palestine. it still had a majority arab population per they said we want a unitary state, a one-state with equal rights for everybody, and the jewish side and not accepted. you can argue that that was a wrong decision, but do not mix up the history about that. that is why i think that reading the history is so important, because all of us on all sides have been victims of mythologies that we have used to justify our intransigence, used to justify our confusions, and to create fear. there are solutions to this. one side is not demonic and the other side. lee. those are real people who have real claims that can be set around the table and negotiated, but we have to understand, real people negotiating problems with other real people, not godly

people fighting demonic people. if you operate like that, there is no solution at all other than one site has to exterminate the other. i do not think that is how it should go. host: a call on the independent line. thank you. i was waiting for almost half an hour, but it is good to talk to you. i have a question. i am disappointed in mr. obama from yesterday when he said i have no sympathy in hamas. host: go ahead. caller: the reason i am disappointed in mr. obama -- first of all, i am not palestinian. i am a somalian-american. people ared jewish different. [indiscernible] , obama said this

before -- he said i have no .ympathy with hamas these people attacking, and then they say they are fired on in a civilian area. that is unfair. i watch cnn. think -- there is an egyptian-american that is doing a great job. , is this people hamas? i think this is unfair. guest: i think you put your finger on a problem, and that is that people have a difference with hamas -- i do not synthesize with hamas' politics and i do not support the politics. i deplore their tactics, the

suicide bombings, these missiles, these rockets. they are stupid, and they are evil. they are simply not the way for palestinians to go forward. usepeople have come to hamas as synonymous with the people of gaza, the palestinian people. if you say you do not to because with hamas, does that mean you do not sympathize for the 1800 people who have died? error. tragic i think the united states has not been helpful, and i think i am disappointed. i mean, i am disappointed that this administration which could have done better, should have done better, but did not by continuing to affirm israel's right to defend itself without any effort made to publicly call on them to stop, we allowed 28

days of this conflict to take place. at the very end, finally using terms like disgraceful. "time" magazine highlights some of the things president obama said yesterday -- no tolerance for the behavior of hamas. they have horrible priorities as a political movement or their tactics as a military movement are just deplorable. am completely on board with that. but america could have and should have done more to stop the murder, and they did not. what that does when they do that, it compromises america in the eyes of the world. it makes us complicit in what israel has done. andreinforces the anger despair that leads to extremist , feeling like hamas

justified that the west and america do not understand and do not support them. is it important that america take a balanced position, and i do not think we have been as balanced as we ought to be if we want to play a constructive role. host: a call on the republican line for james zogby out of california. caller: what needs to be stated, why hasn't mr. zogby mentioned one time what is going on with isis and all of the christians and what they are doing to the churches and the people? that is the ideal that the muslims are pushing all across the world. watching the washington pro-palestine speeches, you can see that all the uninformed americans are being told -- i mean, i am a christian, and they are the ones keeping isis from and -- cross lebanon

you right i stop there? look, i did not mention anything about isis or the islamic state because i was not asked a question about it. you ask the question and i will respond. they are a group that deserves to be condemned, not just condemned, but they must be stopped. maronitestian, catholic, and my family is from lebanon. my syrianongly about christian brothers and sisters in iraq and what they are in during right now. i organized a meeting for the christian community to come meet with the deputy national security adviser at the white house, and we have a meeting today as part of a summit we are doing. i feel very strongly about the tactics used by not just isis but other extremist groups that have been persecuting not just

christians but using these -- but other minority groups. an evil, sectarian virus has caught hold in iraq, syria, and elsewhere, and it is one that must these stop. the problem is that our country took itself out of the game or the war we engaged in in iraq not only help spur this sectarian virus forward but also playingless capable for a constructive role. we have to find ways to stop it. notmaliki government should have been as sectarian as it is, and its sectarianism has been what has made it possible for this sunni extremism to grow. , certainly, pressure to create a more representative, responsive, tolerant, and inclusive iraqi government is an

important step forward. the obama administration is doing that. finding a way to engage the kurdish folks in dealing with this movement, but also working with arab allies in the gulf is important because we have to find ways to build a and otherce to isis groups like that that are fermenting this kind of extrinsic -- extremism. but do not confuse hamas -- again, i do not support hamas. i find their ideology evil, but they have been protecting the christian churches in gaza, and that is what the christians tell me who i know in gaza, that they have had protection there. i do not like their and posing of their value system, there and codes -- the restrictive on the rest of society, but as bad as they are, they are not

gang of thugsa who commit atrocities, horrific atrocities or do not look at them as a religious movement of muslims, they are not. the majority of iraqi people do not want the christians in iraq to be removed from that land or forced to convert. they know there was a huge role before it was iraq and creating the history and culture and simulation -- civilization of the country. .sis is a disease they must be stopped and dealt with. we're looking for ways to help promote that the meantime, finding ways to help protect the christian communities in iraq and syria where they are so vulnerable right now. aaiusa.org, founder and president is james zogby,

. up next, discussing what other states are doing to attract his --. of states to their state we will explain coming up in the program. first, an update from c-span radio. >> fewer people sought unemployment and if it's last week as jobless claims remain levels that point toward stronger economic growth. the labor department says weekly applications for unemployment aid fell by 14,000 to a seasonally adjusted 289,000. and employers added a net total july, the0 jobs in sixth straight month of job the armyve 200,000 or is no questioning sergeant bowe bergdahl about his disappearance in afghanistan that led to his five years in cap timothy by the taliban. that is according to sergeant

bergdahl's attorney and an army spokesperson for he has been at fort sam houston in san antonio since he was released in may in exchange for five members of the taliban. pollly, a new readers shows americans are deeply worried that illegal immigration is threatening the nation's culture and economy. 70% of those who responded, including 86% of republicans, believe undocumented immigrants threaten traditional u.s. police and customs, according to the poll. president obama could act alone -- delay some deportations. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. presentsonth, c-span debates on what makes america great. evolution and genetically modified foods, issues spotlight

with in-depth look at veterans health care, irs oversight, campus loan debt, and sexual assault to her new perspectives on issues including global warming, fighting infectious disease, and food safety. let us know what you think of other programs you are join the conversation, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. c-span 2's book tv. marriage equality, the obamas versus the clintons, and the autobiography of marion barry junior. woodward interviews about

the watergate scandal. anthony marx. he sheds light on the library's past, present, and future. television for serious readers. >> "washington journal" continues. this is featuring texas governor rick perry. here is the ad. [video clip] >> are you tired of american taxes squeezing every penny out of your business? we have created more jobs than every other state. taxes, government, low texas is home to seven out of the 10 businesses in america that do business.

visit texas. wide open for business. learn why more businesses are moving to texas. joining us to tell us what is going on, rob garver. guest: glad to be here. this has become rick perry's stock in trade. traveling country -- the country and trying to poach companies with higher nominal business taxes with promises of looser regulations, lower taxes, and various other attractive things to try to get businesses to move to texas. degree, you could argue he has been successful. texas has had extraordinary job growth in the last few years. drawing a straight line between tax policies and job growth is a bit of a trick. host: what do you mean? guest: it is unclear from the academic research just how much of an effect tax policy has on

the business location. it is one of the factors that a business takes into when it ison considering relocation or expansion. it is far from the only one. host: the website highlighted a map and showed some of the , it is highlighting 600,000 jobs. it is talking about other big states losing jobs. guest: there is no question. it has a strong argument that plenty of jobs are moving there. if you look at that map, there are plenty of states where you are not seeing a whole lot of job growth and they have done quite a bit to slash taxes. wisconsin and kansas come to mind. the low-tech cease us has not worked out as well for them as for texas. ethos has not worked

out well for them as for texas. there are plenty of different ways to play the tax came to attract businesses. -- game to attract businesses. there are targeted tax breaks. they are another issue. there is very limited evidence that they are worth what states spend on them. they often generate real headline benefits for governors and lawmakers. they can say we brought x corporation here and it is the tax breaks that did it. there is often quite a price to be paid. large businesses or small businesses? guest: when you are looking to attract a business, the governors and lawmakers want to attract somebody with targeted thecredits and they go for

big businesses. they need the number. the need to say, i brought 300 jobs to my state, 1000 jobs to my state. it does not make sense to target tax breaks and medium-sized businesses. it is not worth the effort. host: in governor perry's effort, are there big is this victories -- business victories? jobs. the sheer volume of they are doing well because of the extraction industry is there. that is generating job growth. texas is remarkable. it is hard to say that it is absolutely due to tax policies. host: states and how they attract businesses is the final topic of ours. rob garver of "the fiscal times" is our guest. here is that you can ask them questions. republicans, (202) 585-3881.

democrats, (202) 585-3880. independents, (202) 585-3882. you can tweet and e-mail as well. or there other perks sweeteners that states use to drive businesses? -- draw businesses? guest: promises of reduced regulation. that is hand-in-hand with taxes and rick perry's pitch. a light handed regulation. regulation. these are things that businesses consider when moving, but they are not the only thing. states tend to give up a certain when theyservices lower their taxes. ,nlike the federal government states have to balance their budgets.

zero-sum game. if you are reducing tax revenue, you have to make it up somewhere. raisingy, that is in taxes elsewhere, which is never popular or cutting spending, cutting services. you cut enough, you make yourself unattractive for other reasons. it is a complicated game. governors ares concerned, what is the cooperation to get from legislatures on this kind of activity? on theit depends relationship between the governor and the legislature. in kansas, governor brownback had a friendly legislature and they have helped him attack this drastically there. similarly in north carolina. also been able to join forces and/taxes. lash taxes.

maryland, you up first on the republican mind. caller: good morning. we recognize that texas has had tremendous success in attracting job growth. the question is is the regulatory environment [indiscernible] how much does the tone of --iness friendliness attract factor in attracting businesses? guest: regulatory regimes are certainly a factor when businesses are deciding where to relocate. the tone of business , there is no research that i'm am aware of.

it is hard for me to believe that the ceo and the board of a major corporation are going to make a decision based on how people sound to them. i think they are a little more cold-blooded than that. they are not really worried about people saying nice things about -- so much as about whether they are going to be able to find success when the move. host: louisville, kentucky. caller: hi. this is what completely gets ignored. the demand side. this becomes a race to the bottom. it seems to me like it is not whatever,iveaways or but it seems to go to the states that settle for the lowest wages. it becomes a race to the bottom. rosie the riveter, we valued work, wages, we bragged about

being a high wage society. today we bragged about being low labor cost for business. , ofteness of skill level businesses will pick a lower wage, even if somebody else is higher skilled. we need to treat workers as well as we do shareholders or value them at least a little but more than what we do. guest: thanks. great point. you bring up an interesting point about compensation of workers and what that does to jobs. as you remember from earlier in the year, there was a lot of discussion around the minimum wage. the president's effort to get it raised to $10.10 per hour. that floundered. , 13anuary of this year states raised their wages unilaterally.

we have a natural experiment there. the argument against raising wages, which was brought up by a number of people and organizations, not least of which was the congressional budget office, argued that you will bring a large number of people out of poverty, but you will decrease the total number of jobs available. there was a lot of pushback from the white house on this. the cbo was that ignoring the most recent data. these 13 states that raised wages in january offer an interesting experiment. 13it turns out, 12 of the have experienced job growth above the national average. ,ne of them, new jersey experienced the worst job growth in the nation. on the whole, it does not really seem to show that raising the

minimum wage is going to cause jobs to be lost. >> new jersey has a 9% corporate tax income rate. ohio has none. true.t is not precisely taxes,porate income there was only one tax that it's levied on businesses. taxlieve they have a margin , i would hesitate to try to explain that. other states do not have an income tax or have a small one, , economistspts hated. those numbers are misleading. rate isorate income tax not the only tax that businesses pay. even texas does tax business. it just is not tax their income.

midland, texas is our next call. caller: hi. host: go ahead. caller: i wanted to make a comment about the low taxes in texas. i think there are low taxes for the corporations. i live in west texas. i think they must be taking it out or making it up on the people that live in texas because we have a sales tax of about 8.25% and property taxes are out of sight. corporations might be getting a good deal. i think they're making up the work on the individuals that live in texas. guest: sure. it is a zero-sum game. states have to balance budgets every year. if you reduce tax revenues somewhere, you've got to either increase it somewhere else or/-- or slash spending.

texas needs revenue. it does have a loose regulatory state. they still lead roads, schools, police. they have to pay for those general services people expect from the state government somehow. host: pryor, oklahoma. we are doing good here in oklahoma. we were doing better under george bush. we had a 3% unemployment back in 2004 through 2006. arkansas had 2%. to goere begging people work. people forget.

blame george bush. we have a google plant moving in. they took in the old gatorade plant. there are only a handful of google plants. guest: one thing i would point out is that lower unemployment rates were not uncommon at all in the early 2000's. with the financial crisis, mortgage crisis, and the which started a mainly occurred during the bush administration. has beenery, while it painfully slow, has been going on since about 2008. host: richard from missouri. caller: good morning. missouri has been trying to get this right to work so that more

jobs come in here. i have a friend working at maytag in iowa. they went clear to mexico. at texas? go all the way to mexico. it is a lot cheaper there. it is a world economy now. guest: that is an excellent point. it is hard to understate that. states don't just compete with states. this is not a closed market anymore. the fact have to face that their job might not just move to texas, it might keep going. it might keep heading south to mexico. if a state holds a right to work philosophy, doesn't make it easier? guest: i don't think there's conclusive evidence one way or the other. it does appear to be attractive to large businesses, large union-based employees. it does appear to have attracted

some large manufacturers to the policywhere that sort of is more common. to say that it is across the board is something that is right, i don't think the evidence is in hand. ,ost: (202) 585-3881 republicans. (202) 585-3880, democrats. (202) 585-3882, independents. caller: good morning. with the minimum wage, studies have been done on that. second, unemployment in general, the increase in disability, if

you look at civilian unemployment, percentage of the population, we are basically back to the levels we saw in the 1970's. some of those numbers are skewed. my third point is corporate tax rates. most of the corporations in the u.s. play those and they set the rates, the rates are high, but not a lot of corporations -- if we set the rate to zero or approaching zero and placed it back tax, wouldn't that help with the unemployment and bring more business to the country, to all states? host: let's leave it at three points. mr. garver. guest: yes, there have been studies done about the minimum wage impact on poverty. certainly. the finding is that it would be, the cbo looked at it, look at raising the ways to -- wage to

$10.10 and it would move hundreds of thousands of people out of poverty. that it wouldis cost jobs in the cbo's view. on net, more people would move out of poverty than be heard, but there would be a cost in jobs. that has obviously been challenged by those 13 states we discussed before. on taxes, we have been talking about state business taxes. is whatral business tax the caller was talking about. it is a bit of a nightmare. we have one of the highest corporate tax rates of any major industrialized country. system have a global tax which virtually every other country similar to us in terms of economic complexity abandoned a long time ago.

there does seem to be strong that we need to move to a territorial tax system. int keeps getting tied up efforts to rewrite the entire tax code. because it is something people agree on, nobody wants to do it all by itself. they want to make it a sweetener to get a bigger bill through. the federal tax situation needs to be dealt with because it is not helping us. michigan. independent line. john. hello. caller: good morning. kudos to your gals the do the news update. wonderful people. mr. garver, i worked at general motors 20 years. i got tired of that.

they couldn't wait to get rid of us old-timers. they were packing up, getting ready to go to mexico. i went and drove truck for 22 years. about thelittle bit corporate thing and corporate tax is a fallacy because you write everything off anything anyway.- corporations do not pay taxes, not to speak of. here i am 63 years old, technically i guess i am retired , but we still build houses and cars and motorcycles. host: what would you like our guest to address? caller: the big corporations moved overseas, they had the money hid ht -- hid the money and other want to come back to america. they are yelling how they cannot get skilled help. that is still around. guest: thanks, yes.

there is no question that we did lose over the years a lot of jobs to overseas. that is just a function of the global market we live in an something we will have to adjust to. on the issue of the affected tax rate that corporations pay, it varies very widely. is the top marginal rate. it is not 35% off their first dollar. it is 35% for companies to reach a certain threshold and they pay a lesser amount before they reach the threshold. at the same time, the color is red. -- caller is right. everyone has heard stories about ge having negative tax liability. do all companies do it? no. some are better at it than others. upe game the system and wind

paying little or nothing. it is true. host: maryland, democrat line. caller: i think part of the argument that has not been talked about is the fact that whether or not i have a job or the individual state, the biggest thing is whether or not what i have to sell, whether there is someone for that. while governor perry is trying , ifndermine other states the market is not there to purchase it, it is not going to be successful. the people who live in texas are not getting a decent wage and they will not be will to purchase the item anyway. they will be able to purchase essentials, but not items beyond the essentials. the biggest thing continues to be that we need to focus and create more urgency around a

higher wage increase. we cannot get around that. have a segment of this country that is extremely poor. guest: a couple of points there. when a company moves into a state like texas, depending on the company, if you're opening a restaurant, you need to make sure people who live there are able to buy what you sell. if you're opening a clothing store, likewise. but if you're opening a manufacturing operation that is going to sell worldwide are released countrywide, you are less concerned about the folks living right near where you are producing because you are sending your products potentially all of the the world. sendingd, if you are her stuff all over the world, you need infrastructure that lets you get your product there. if you are living in a state

that has not invested or relocating estate that has not invested in infrastructure, you have a problem. if the roads are not reliable, if the airports are not really up to par, it is going to be tough for you to get your stuff to market. infrastructure spending tends to be one of the things that gets whacked when corporate tax revenues fall. again, it is a complicated game. state as well as involved in this practice. here is a commercial that reflects what new york is doing. [video clip] open, new new york is open to innovation, open to ambition, open to bold ideas. that is why new york has a new plan. dozens of tax-free zones all across the state. move your, expand here, or start a new business here and pay no

taxes for 10 years. we are new york. we are open to it. start a tax-free business. host: no taxes for 10 years. somebody is paying them. it just may not be the company. the company moves to new york, its employees presumably need police protection, their children need schooling, they are going to need roads to drive on. you have brought a bunch of people into the state and effectively the rest of the state is shouldering the burden for them. you are asking new yorkers to pay more taxes so that they can get jobs from ohio. it is not always clear that that is a good deal. now, new york is a special case because they are constantly hammered by the low tax

advocates as the worst state for business. is between new york and california. if you look at that map, new york's rate, i think it is around 7%. >> 7.1%. >> that is not wildly out of line with a lot of other states. look at these, they combine all sorts of different issues. personal income tax rate, which in new york is quite high compared to other states. they use that as a recent tuesday -- say you nor does unfriendly to business. it is not all clear -- at all clear that that is a major factor in a company's decision to move to a state. basis is his own there istax liability,

corporate governance issue there that they need to work out. host: our guest is rob garver with "the fiscal times." california, mark on the independent line. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i have seen websites about fracking. it is happening near dallas. we have fracking right in the neighborhood. it is poisoning our water and the air quality is so bad that people are not letting their kids even go outside at times because the air quality is so bad. host: thanks. guest: obviously, fracking is another issue. it is tangentially related to texas because companies were

states, rather, do want this to happen. it is very lucrative. that waving tax incentives in front of companies is something that has gone on, though i cannot speak specifically to that issue. louisiana. john on the republican line. caller: good morning. a quick question. you mentioned a comment you made about people relocating businesses and the need to have the infamous infrastructure word and you mentioned roads, airports. i would like to know where exactly in the united states of wherea there is a void there is no road transportation, rail transportation, or airplane transportation? somebody would locate a manufacturing plant if it did not have those things. where is it that this void is?

you brought it up. i'm kind of curious. i drive around this country a lot. i travel. i'm retired. yes, roads need to be repaired. it has been that way since we built the interstate stadium -- system in 1954. i'm still trying to find that place in the united states of america that is void of that infrastructure. i will take your answer off-line. i didn't give the impression that i think there are vast wasteland that do not have infrastructure. that is not really the issue. the issue is two things. reliability. are the roads in good repair? our bridges going to be -- our bridges going to be there? and interconnection. you may have an airport. what is your airport connect to? if i want to fly my people in ad out, my products, is it

convenient place? do i have to change five times to get to where i want to go? can the kind of cargo plan that i want to carry my materials overseas put down here or do i have to ship them somewhere else and then put them on a plane? it's thick obligated question. question. complicated there are no infrastructure wastelands in the country. as far as i know. host: david on the democrat line. michigan. wood : this would sign -- sawing of tax labor costs have been going on for 40 years. of big corporation profits are big now. at what point do they incorporate a sense of community and loyalty to where they are from? could you explain what is actually wrong with nationalistic ideas?

shouldn't these companies be more concerned with the loyalty of where they are from and what they are doing? saw which sawing -- whip ing, i don't think it is real. i think it is made up for businesses to be greedy. about i think i wrote this in a piece i wrote today. for hundreds of years, people have been remarking on the fact that it is pointless to expect to behaveorporation as though it has a conscience. it does not. that is not a value judgment. it just doesn't. people have consciences. corporations are structures we have created that are essentially built to facilitate business. in the business of patriotism. it may be good business to look that way, but that is not what they are built for and asking them to do that is pointless. what we need to do a structure a

tax code that does what we needed to do regardless of what businesses choose to do. great pointay take -- makes a great point about the whip saw. the states are at a prisoner's dilemma. it would be ideal for all of the states everywhere all at once to immediately cease offering special tax benefits to businesses. of thed take some misallocation of resources out of the question. businesses would go for where it made sense for them to go and you would avoid all of the bad side effects of special tax breaks for particular businesses. cronyism. to prisoners of big business in locality.

if it threatens to move, it can cause great economic problems in a community. once you start doing this, it is hard to stop. if you are not doing it and your neighbor is, there is a great temptation to get started. if everyone stopped all at once, it would be a good thing. host: we have been talking about taxes. john is from san antonio, texas. discussedat is never in this kind of discussion is that as taxes go up, as wages go up, right along with it goes the cost of living. look at texas. our cost of living is way down compared to new york, california, places like that. it is a never-ending cycle. by don't gain anything higher taxes in a state. you lose. the cost of living is going so high.

host: given example. caller: look at texas. no state income tax. very little taxes. the cost of living is lower than any other state just about to read -- just about. thingsthere are a lot of that go into measuring the cost of living in a particular state. cost of living and quality of life are two sides of the same coin. taxes pay for things that people want. high tax states tend to offer more services, more public facilities. it is a trade-off. if people prefer a low tax, low , it is a matter of

personal choice when you are talking about the individual rather than the corporation. host: from chicago. this is bruce. this is a call from a democratic based in illinois. always marvel at these people. they create all of these laws. they create all of the tax loopholes. them incentives. then they demonize the people who use them. it is unbelievable to me. they divide the country. i don't understand it. everything that is a problem in this country has got its roots in government. the government creates the inflation. the government creates everything you read the problems. they create the loopholes. then they get mad when people use them and they demonize people who use them. a good point.e the tax cut is ridiculously complicated. you can't expect the corporation to behave as though it is a

patriot. make not -- does not sense. if you create a system whereby ge can extract tax benefits from the government that lower its tax liability to potentially below zero, of course they're going to do it. them for doinge that is politically convenient. but the system is set up to allow them to do it. inconceivable that a big business would not take every advantage that they can. north carolina. greg. independent line. i am really enjoying the show. guest: think is a much. caller: i am under the weression that if states to detach the division of motor vehicles from the state registry or make it easier to get

licenses, drivers licenses -- and what i mean is if there is orchild support issues victimless crime, no guns or is no need toere attract them to the national state registry. guest: ok. the impact of things like that on the tax situation of the state is really unclear at the moment. i just don't know. host: william from bryan, texas. , cutline. -- democrat line. caller: good morning. i think the gentleman made the statement that corporations do not have any responsibility for any patriotism or loyalty to the country that they were started

in. i'm wondering why he is saying that. it seems to me that individuals have patriotism or loyalty to the country that they are expected to protect the country. a company that decides to leave the country and leave thousands of jobless people, do they not have any responsibility or patriotism to that decision? guest: great point. i'm not saying that there is no responsibility. i would not look badly upon a corporation that moved thousands of jobs overseas. i would. what i'm saying is that expecting them to behave as though they have a conscience is pointless. because they are just not structured that way. the intense as for a corporation are to maximize profit, to make money.

sometimes that will dovetail with behavior we could theoretically described as patriotic. corporations are not patriots. corporations don't have a conscience. it is not a value judgment. just a statement of fact. they can't. host: joining us for a hunger station about state competition for jobs is rob garver from "the fiscal times." thanks for your time. guest: a great pleasure. thank you. host: that is it for us. another addition comes your way tomorrow at 7:00 in the morning. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014]