and still you get the criticism. so it's important to say you've lived through it. >> everyone comes to these positions with different to temperaments. watching mrs. bush, you know, she's been able to traverse all this with a level of grace and kindness and compassion, just seeing how our transition worked and we talked about this in tanzania, people are who they are. said this in my convention speech, being president doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are. which is true for first spouses as well. some people are shy and don't want the limelight. other people are more outgoing, maybe more aggressive and able to withstand the heat of the spotlight that shines on us.

i think that all of us, we have to bring what is uniquely us to the table. and work within that. and that's sometimes what people around the world don't understand. first spouses, we don't choose this position. we just happen to be in it. >> we're elected by one man. >> right, right. >> and you can't be fired. >> right. >> certainly hope not. >> i guess we'll see. >> you know, one of the things that is unique is your voice as women. you talked about that last year. i went back and looked. you were quite eloquent about how important it is to -- for women to use your voices and your power and i think mrs. obama, you said we're not complicated but we're complex. and i think that's a good way of putting it. but again, mrs. bush, why is it important for women to -- for women's voices in this particular position to be heard?

>> for the first lady? i think it's important because the first lady has an opportunity really to talk about what is most interesting to her and what she thinks she can probably help, the way she thinks she can help her country and the people in her country. the best. i love to quote lady bird johnson who said, the first lady has the podium and she intended to use it. and she did. it was another texas first lady, and i admired her from a distance, i didn't know her then but got to know her later when george was governor and we lived in austin. but she did. she used what she loved. she happened to love the native flowers and the natural beauty of our country and she made a huge difference. the daffodils that you see blooming here along the george washington parkway were planted because of lady bird johnson. but yes, she used education and civil rights and she was a

southern first lady so it was very important for her to speak out about civil rights and she did. she campaigned all across the south for the civil rights laws that were passed and signed during president johnson's administration. >> once again, i always go back to young people. we meet, i know i do, we meet thousands of just wonderful young people in our countries and around the world and you know, to walk, to have a 7-year-old a 12-year-old walk up to you or send you a letter and tell them thank you for what you do, i look up to you, you inspire me. that reminds us all that whether we like it or not, we are role models. and as women, we have the young girls in our world, in our countries, they are looking to us. they're looking to us for how we should be, how we should think, how to use our voices and as a result, we have a responsibility to show them the way in whatever

way we can. that that may be something as simple as embracing a child on the line and telling them that they're beautiful and that you're proud of them and that you know they're important and they're valued. i think about that. because every time i meet a child i i think who knows what's going on in her life. whether she's bullied or had a bad day at school or whether she lost a parent. that interaction that we have with that individual, that child, for that moment, could change their life. so we can't waste the spotlight. it is temporary. life is short. and change is needed. and women are smarter than men. [applause] >> that goes without saying. >> and the men can't complain because you're outnumbered today. >> mrs. bush you talked about

that before too. it's a temporary spotlight. but you are now working hard to carry it on. and i think that sense of continuity is very important so you have the -- the george w. bush first lady's initiative, you have the global women's initiative, the women of afghanistan. you're keeping going. >> we are continuing to work, both george and i are, through the george bush institute which is in dallas now, at the bush library and museum. it gives both of us a chance to keep working on the issues that were the most important to us. pink ribbon-red ribbon is our global health initiative. many of you know about that. we've launched in three countries in africa and we're going to hear about some more in a few minutes. but because pepfar was started while george was president, the president's emergency plan for aids relief, we wanted to be able to continue global health initiative that builds on

pepfar. and when we looked at the cancer numbers across africa and really across the world and saw that cervical cancer which is preventable, is the leading cause of cancer death among african women, we figured out there was a way we could use the pepfar platform that's already established and add the testing and treatment for cervical and breast cancer to pepfar. and so that's our global health initiative. it's given us a way to keep building and we have a number of terrific partners who are in the room. so thank you all -- thank you to all the partners and thanks to the first ladies in the countries where we have already launched and where we're getting ready to launch. >> i thought that was such a smart initiative. it really does combine so many elements that are just sensible. you know. which is another thing women are good at. but the fact is, you had the

pepfar clinics so the women were already coming in, but you needed, since breast cancer isn't caused by the same diseases, you needed to get somebody else in so you got susan g. komen and the pharmaceutical companies and it's turned out to be a total women's health platform. >> it is really. it's partnering obviously with the u.s. government as well, using the, what u.s. state department as our partner because we are using the pepfar platform to add and the great news is that cervical cancer really can be treated. not when it's advanced. which is why it's so important that women come to be screened early on. and then be treated. and then the vaccination programs which -- with the h.p.v. vaccination is important. i think many african first ladies are trying now to manage these vaccination programs so we

really won't even have to worry about cervical cancer when these girls who are vaccinated grow up. >> do you think about that, mrs. obama? i know you're still right in the middle of it. >> i hope your no -- you're not thinking about that yet. >> not at all. >> but how you can carry on some of these and talk about your other initiatives too. you have done these private-public partnerships, particularly around the military families. >> dr. biden and i started joining forces, which is a nationwide effort to provide support and respect to our men and women in uniform and their families. we have worked with private companies to create jobs as these men and women transition to civilian life. you know, working on making sure they get the education benefits, all the support that they should expect, having put their lives on the line and their families' lives on hold.

>> and the medical schools, you're working with medical schools. >> the nurses are becoming trained to be able to identify and support men and women who may have post-traumatic stress disorder. just educating the entire country on what ptsd meansing trying to destigmatize it so these men and women feel like they can seek help when they need it. all of that has been, you know, it is a passion for both jill and i, jill is a blue star mom and she proudly says that. she has grandchildren who she's seen grow up while her son bowe was deployed. -- her son bo was deployed. for me this is something i'm going to do long after we leave the white house because these these needs will always be there. i have been able to see through former first spouses and presidents, the platform

continues. that is something i would encourage you to think about. how do you lady foundation for the legacy you want to create for yourself? as women, we should not be afraid to talk about our legacies. what we want to leave behind in the work we do. so many important symbolic responsibilities we have in our roles. there's nothing wrong with thinking about legacy. what we want to leave for the world. that takes planning. coordination. pat takes her to ships -- artnerships. we shouldn't be afraid to have those conversations. the time will come for me. i will embrace that. what i have seen from the bush family is there is a level of freedom that comes after you are out of the spotlight.

it is a new and different spotlight. there is more you are able to do out of office that you can't do when you are in office. >> i remember you saying, you could pick up the phone and calling member of congress and get something done. we are at an african summit. both of you have exhibited such a strong interest in africa. helpede very much to -- to shine a spotlight on the confident and caused us to learn about the good news. i'm kind of wondering how you got there. mr. bush, i know you were in 75 countries as first lady. why africa? >> it started when george launched the program in 2000

three. people were dying every single day across africa. it was a pandemic that was going orphaned.he continent he saw it was important for the u.s. to be actively involved in helping in africa. for us, the wealthiest country in the world, both because we could but also because we should morally try to save as many lives as possible. i went on that trip in 2003. when it was launched. our daughter barbara was with us. choicesmade her life because of that trip. she is the head of global health core. -- sheages people founded it to engage young people to work in the health

field. she has fellows in africa and in the u.s. trip andf that first because of the program, we had a huge interest in africa. we just had a wonderful trip this last march, a private trip. ethiopia.ness trip to to visit the christian sites and ethiopia. an importanten continent for us. because of our extremes is there. >> africa is an important continent to the rest of the world. integral to the success of this nation, the u.s., and the world. it is in undervalued,

underappreciated continent. upon the world to have a better understanding of what africa has to offer. the importance of africa is very personal to me. because, as the president said last night, africa is home for us. his family is there. we have relatives there. we have visited the content on several occasions. we have taken our daughters to his grandfather's village. they have seen a part of themselves. the partnership with this continent means a great deal to us. we have seen the power, the potential. to meet the young leaders and takeow hungry they are to their countries to a new level.

that kind of passion is infectious. it is something that young people here should know and understand. we want people from america to travel to africa to understand its languages and a different cultures. not to see it as a monolith. see the investment opportunities. which is one of the reasons this summit is so important. it hasn't just been a conversation with we are open -- with world leaders but as mrs. and the nonprofits are here -- but businesses and nonprofits are here. u.s. as atime for the whole to embrace that reality. this is the beginning of a lot of work that needs to be done. we are encouraged and optimistic. >> this week has been very

instructive for the whole country. it was wonderful to be in africa. have african leaders here in the u.s. it is educating the country about what is going on there. i'm going to end where we began. coming as the news is, out of much of africa, it will not be as good as it can be until we do more. all like to see a finishing word. >> thank you very much. michelle. president obama for hosting me african leaders summit. thank you for inviting the bush institute to be a part of the first lady's initiative. thank you for coming to our first lady's conference. angst to all the first ladies who have joined us.

thank you for the great work you are doing in your countries. thank you for the good work you will do. [applause] >> thank you, back at you. laura, absolutely. we are here because of the example that was set in tanzania through the summit that the bush institute organized. as my chief of staff stated, when the summit was being organized, we jumped at the chance to do something similar and continue the conversation. to come together as for spouses and continue to be inspired by each other. ist i would say in closing we have to fight for our girls.

there should never be a girl in this world who has to fear getting educated. that should be something that is intolerable to all of us. i can only think of my own girls, and we all have to see aughtersughters -- our d in these young girls. we want them to be smart and empowered and loved. we want them to be healthy and mentally sound. if it is good enough for our girls, it is good enough for every single girl in the world. it is going to take leadership. women like us speaking out in our countries. making sure young girls are not subject to abuse and are loved and valued. we will notthat, solve these problems. thesting in our women, people who raise our children, the people who take care of

families, they have to be healthy and whole. that is the most important work we do. whether we talk about clean energy or economic empowerment. until we value women and girls, we will continue to struggle on this planet. i have high hopes when i look around this room. we will not tolerate that. not anywhere on the planet. if we continue to work together and lift up our young people who were fighting for a better will see somek we progress on these issues. i look forward to working with all of you in the years ahead. they go -- thank you. [applause] both so much for the work you're doing. for coming together. you set such a good example for

the men. also for allowing me to participate. [applause] >> c-span's prime time continues with a debate with bill ayers 'souza.esh d the discussion is what is so great about america? >> we started out as a well, youary and started off in the bin laden mode. you try to bomb the pentagon, the u.s. capitol. here's my question to you -- you sounded totally different today here at utah about being an educator, socratic wonder.

what happened to that old revolutionary? is he still alive? for has he thrown in the towel? feel i am a revolutionary. if what you mean is having a fully worked out program in which we can imagine a different world and overthrow the government and move forward, i'm not that good if you mean if somebody is willing to dive in and make sense and fight for more peace and justice and more balance and more sustainability being able to deliver the ambiguity of move forward, sure. i will give you one example. to struggle against white supremacy which i invited everyone to join as a struggle that still goes on. it hasn't ended. it is a struggle that still goes on. it takes different forms. it is not slavery or jim crow.

but the overrepresentation of black men in prison, that is white supremacy today. that is what we should be fighting. >> you can watch the entire debate between bill ayers and d inesh d'souza monday at 8 p.m. on c-span. >> during the week i justice, obama talks about military strikes in iraq. ss, obama talks about military strikes in iraq. the republican address criticizes obama's policies. theirst, i directed military to take action to protect our american diplomats and military advisors serving in the city of erbil. there are terrorist forces near the city aired thursday night, i

made it clear they attempt to advance further, our military would respond with military strikes. we will do whatever is needed to protect our people. second, we would help the iraqis tromped on the mountain. they have been rounding up families and executing men and enslaving women. of iraq men and women and children who fled to that mountain were starving and dying of thirst. the food and water drops will help them survive. u.s.e also targeted strikes to help rescue these families. earlier this week, one anguished iraqi cry to the world, "there's

no one coming to help." america is helping. the u.s. cannot and should not intervene every time there is a crisis in the world. when there's a situation like the one on this mountain, when countless innocent people are facing a massacre, and when we have the ability to prevent it, the u.s. cannot just to look away. it is not who we are. we are americans who act, lead. that is what we will do on that mountain. as one american wrote to me, "it is the right thing to do." i will not allow the u.s. to be dragged into fighting another war in iraq good american combat troops will not be returning to fight because there is no american military solution to the larger crisis. what we will do is continue our water strategy in iraq. we will protect our citizens and work with international community to address this unitarian crisis. we will prevent these terrorist from having a permanent safe haven in which to attack america

. we will continue to urge the iraq communities to reconcile, come together, and fight back against these terrorist so people of iraq have the opportunity to a better future. an opportunity for which so many americans have gave their lives in iraq in the long hard work. today we salute our men and women in uniform, especially the courageous pilots over iraq. and are protecting our fellow americans. they're helping save the lives of american -- of innocent people on the mountain. they know that there's a country of america that cares for them and willing to stand up for them. .> hi i'm running for the u.s. state senate from the great state of minnesota. to get there, i'm in the middle of an 87 county tour. today i hit county number 80. i'm speaking to you from that technology campus in wilmer. he have a wonderful state. minnesotans work hard.

no matter where i go, people tell me the same thing -- we are heading in the wrong direction. of the is expensing one slowest economic recoveries in our nations history. minnesotans feel like we have fallen hind and wages have been stagnant and the cost of everything from gas to groceries keeps going up. here in minnesota come over half of our workers are underemployed . weekly wages have gone up by just pennies. this is not what it economic recovery should feel like. minnesota is the land of 10,000 late, but when it comes to the challenges working families are facing, all we hear from democrats is 10,000 excuses. we can do better. i'm running to bring real leadership to washington and help get america back onto the path of growth and prosperity. there are many ways we can turn this economy around. let me touch on two of them today.

the first is regulation. president obama and the senate democrats are great at creating regulations, but when it comes to jobs, not so much. to great jobs and unleash our full economic potential, we need smarter regulation and non-overregulation so that the american free enterprise can do what it does best -- innovate, let me give you an example from my state. you're sitting on one of the largest copper nickel deposits in the world. there is a company that wants to use advanced technologies to mine these metals and bring good jobs back to the minnesota iron rings. seven years and millions of dollars later, we still don't have an answer. there are seven different regulatory agencies to sponsor him for making this decision, which is crazy. i believe that there's a better way through smarter regulation and a little common sense. we can develop our natural resources in a way that creates

jobs and protects the environment. mine init is the minnesota or the keystone pipeline, they're good jobs waiting to be created. if we use more common sense and regulation, the second way to get this economy going is education. moving our economy forward is vital to having a well-educated and highly skilled workforce. for the past five years, i have been involved in a fantastic inner-city school in minneapolis. the students come from some tough neighborhoods and very hard backgrounds. the typical freshman test one to two grade levels behind when they enter the schools. but we have had 100 percent graduation rates and every student has been accepted either into college or is serving in the armed forces. when people hear about their success, they want to know how we do it. the answer is simple -- because we care.

we care enough to develop a curriculum that conforms to our own standards and not a one-size-fits-all approach from washington. and we care enough to direct money into the classroom where it can benefit the students the most. we are changing the trajectory of these kids lives. the possibilities are endless. doctors,m are future educators, and engineers. president obama and senate democrats have had their chance to turn our economy around it all we're doing is running in place. we can do better. this november presents him tremendous opportunity for --rica to elect new leaders this november presents the tremendous opportunity for america to elect new leaders. we can give our children a stronger country than the one we were given. you and god-- thank bless america.

>> up next, a discussion about campaign spending and the role of so-called "dark money." this is 45 minutes. host: they were investigating the iris division that deals with nonprofit groups. what is dark money and how is the irs involved in its regulation? that animated a bunch of political entities including corporations and unions in super pac's. they can raise and spend unlimited amount of money. they have not had a primary

purpose. they were able to raise and spend unlimited amounts of money -- dark money is a term. isis the general term that used for money that is flowing into the political process and used in elections and campaigns television. you know the organization is sponsoring the ad. if you ask a question who is behind that money? it is very difficult to answer that question in any empirical across-the-board way. been able tohave

avoid having to disclose that kind of money that they are using in the political process in a way that the candidates have to do by law. we have heard a lot about the irs. remind us about their role in regulating. guest: people think of the federal election commission. they are the ones who are supposed to be the cops on the beat. and regulate campaign laws and rules and regulations. if somebody does something that crosses a line that is potentially illegal, they are tasked to investigate. when we get into the realm of nonprofits it becomes part of the irs domain. there is an entity called the exempt organizations division. that is the nonprofit division. when you think of a iris you

think about the guys who are andecting the taxes bringing money into the government. the exempt organizations division is different. they ensure that nonprofit retainingons are nonprofit or getting nonprofit status in the first place. when you have these nonprofit , these are social welfare organizations were business trade groups that became very political in some cases following that citizens united decision. when these groups are spending millions of dollars to advocate for candidates, it called in the question about getting too

political. are they violating the terms of being a nonprofit organization? ? why should people care about this if you have a nonprofit that is getting very political and should not have a purpose of engaging in politics, the packs -- taxpayer is given a subsidy. whether you are a republican or an issue.it becomes if this group is politically active and should be registering as a political committee without the benefit of being a nonprofit organization. >> these organizations are spending $300 million in the 2012 election. you can include in your --estigation that the

we investigated a number of different realms. some of that came from statistics that we got through the freedom of information act and some from documents that we attain from the sources at the irs and elsewhere. we did two dozen interviews with people in high-ranking officials. they have been reluctant to engage in enforcement actions. host: does that predate some of these target investigations it we are seen hearings on? guest: it has accelerated in the last couple of years.

scandal thathe blew up with the targeting of move totive groups, the go after organizations that had tea party in their name or other identifiable words that would indicate there is a good chance that they were conservative and they were political in some way. the research issue goes back a couple of decades. there has been a systematic bleeding of staffing and financial resources to this one element of the irs. it tracks the slide down from a was a much more robust division at one point to what we have today, which is an organization or an element of the irs that has fewer staffers than it has had a long time. it has less money.

suggested, the amount of spending that is going on in the political realm by these nonprofit organizations and these new abilities and freedoms to engage in the political process over the last four years, that money has been going up and up and up. it is not stopping. cycle, it4 election is going up at an accelerated rate in a way you can only imagine. muchan only imagine how they will spend in the 2016 cycle. money,esources and more they don't have the capacity to comprehensively look into these groups and make sure that they are following the law. for: as applications nonprofit status have gone up, the number of inquiries are going down.

thear in the 2014 cycle, amount of dark money in this cycle will eclipse the we saw in the last midterm and maybe eclipse the last presidential election. the center for public integrity. let's go to: in oklahoma. good subject. the conflict is created by the

, this is a government agency being an arm of the democratic arctic. -- democratic party. unionsiticians and the are ganging up on the taxpayers. detroit shows the that eventually goes down the drain. happeninge same thing throughout government. irs is the lead attacker in the situation. when you talk about dark money, there needs to be all of this brought up. know there was a union cobol in the irs.

the caller is right in the sense that the situation shined a lot of light into what setting conservative sensibilities on fire. irse were elements in the otherois lerner and information that has come out that there was at some level to some degree targeting conservative organizations. you can debate the merits of whether or not that was fair. there is a major part as an element that came about as result of this. it raises the broader question of whether these organizations

or the irs is being evenhanded with in-service groups versus liberal groups. for themajor question parties themselves if they feel like they are being treated fairly. talked to the commissioner i have the -- of the irs. ruleseed to rewrite the as it applies to nonprofit organizations to make them more equitable. to make some warfare. -- to make them more fair. these about be proposed until after the 2014 midterms. do not hold your breath, and will not happen until after the 2014 election cycle. happen early in 2015.

it could have some effect on the 2016 election cycle. we will obviously have a pretty -- presidential race. involvese of this defining what political activity is under irs rules for nonprofits. guest: absolute. this is something liberals and conservatives are concerned about. if you are in a football game and you are told that maybe you need 10 yards for a first down but it might be eight or 12, the teams are going to throw their hands up in the air. they need a certain measure. many liberalk to and conservative groups, the agreement is they want the rules to be consistent and for the

rules to be well-known. purpose,n of primary it is very fuzzy. half of the money the nonprofit there are some other factors that go into that. money.ot half the it is very confusing for the groups that want to abide i the law and comply with the law and involve themselves in politics to some degree but don't want to cross a red line and go into a realm that could get them in trouble. about there talking irs and dark money. john is calling from michigan on the line for democrats. caller: good morning.

i had a couple of comments and the question. this citizens united and campaign funds are now free taxch, you shouldn't get a deduction for using your constitutional right. my question is, is there anyone looking to eliminate texted actions for campaign contributions because they are now free speech? guest: one important point to if you make a campaign contribution you do not get a tax deduction if it is directly

to a candidate. even if you make a donation to 501 c4 groups, that is not tax-deductible from the donation standpoint. if you're a nonprofit group and i given you $100, i can't do that that off my taxes. is operating as a nonprofit and is tax-free in a certain regard. that is important. do the broader point if these organizations should be able to operate tax-free or in a political way, that is going straight to the height -- heart of what the irs is going to propose in its new rules.

this is going to be a very public ross s. people a political persuasions are going to have the opportunity to weigh in and an open run up to what is going to be made by the irs. morning, alan. caller: i always enjoy the show. a couple of things. i have a couple of questions. the irs and the election commission are all supposed to be nonpolitical. lois lerner called the in an e-mail that was released. dark money comes in from both sides. majority ofke the the targeting was the tea party groups.

the words progressive and union were not targeted. unions -- we have to get the unions out of the government. they are led to contribute to campaigns. they are one-sided with their political views. by the union.dled how deep thatw was ingrained. they are not going to go after union groups because they are going after their own supporters . you the irs situation as it is right now, most of the situation is looked at with conservative groups. there have been a number of left leaning or democratic nonprofit

organizations that have been doing the same thing as many conservative organizations. they are pouring in lots of this so-called dark money into the political system. in terms of a balance right now, there are more conservative dollars flowing into the system. democrats and liberals are andainly aware of the rules the laws as they exist today. toy have made the decision engage in the process the way the rules are written right now. you do have a number of these groups. democrats often talk about the -- dark money being a terrible thing and all money should be transparent. there is money flowing in right now coming from liberal organizations. the irs is aware of this.

going back to our interview, it was clear that it was going to be a goal of the irs to move beyond strategic targeting of certain organizations by their name and do it in a way that is more equitable. least, they are aware of the issue. that should be very evident to anybody who is watching any of the hearings on capitol hill. according to the center $43responsive politics, million spent by nonprofit groups in the 2014 cycle. let's go to carl waiting in west virginia on the line for republicans. 40 years ago richard

nixon was forced to resign his office. what do you know about this organization in texas? sheway i understand it, formed an organization to train poll watchers. she applied for this tax exempt. the irs audited her business and her personal account and then the fbi investigated the business because they have tobacco and firearms for a license to manufacture firearms.

upa came down and wrote them . a congressman said his staff down there to investigate this woman. guts than halfe the people in texas. i will call them what they are. i would like to know what you think about this organization? in, headore dave jumps over to american history tv later today and we will have several hours worth of programming on nixon's resignation. i just went from san antonio last night. topic amongas a hot people i was talking to. i don't know the particulars of the situation.

this is in general a major issue for anyone who is going to be under the watchful eye of the irs to any degree. this could be onerous to a point that i won't be able to do my job. i won't be able to do my work. my organization is going to have a burden on it that will prevent me from doing what i want to do. often times it is a mixed bag. sometimes you might want to get a group that is getting a strong degree of scrutiny from the irs. that is going to anger a lot of groups. that is going to be a major concern. we hear this a lot. it goes back to that lack of equity that groups feel they are

getting more scrutiny than other groups. host: marcus in pennsylvania. i am a tax professional. what i am hearing is mostly from republicans is the usual right-wing hysteria. i deal with the irs on a daily basis. i feel them to be professional and courteous. they are overworked and underfunded. these are people who are barely able to do their jobs. darrell issa oversight hearing is nothing more than to whip up the republican base to come out this november. the irs is just doing their job. they are taxed with determining whether or not these applications are valid or not. if mostly conservative groups are applying then guess who is

going to be under the scrutiny? trying to type e-mails into the white house, they can look at e-mails and there is nothing there. host: to your point on resources for the irs, one of the numbers centere piece from the for public integrity noted that division has 14% fewer staff than it did two decades ago. the sentiments were echoed by many of the irs employees that we talk to for our story. this, theyctively are being bled of resources but most of them are just trying to do their jobs and follow the law that has been written by congress. aty point the finger congress as being the villain in all this.

it is not the irs. this is the sentiment of the employees and not talking about anybody else. they feel like they have been set up to be the bogeyman when in fact they were just trying to do their due diligence and make sure that the rules and regulations of the country that were set up by a bipartisan congress were followed to achieve. -- if they went off track than that is fair to question. they felt in the interviews that we did that if they don't have the person power to investigate they don't have the resources and the money to do so in a way that is going to be fair and across the board to all organizations than they are going to have to pick and choose the battles they fight and what groups they look into.

it becomes a situation for them that is untenable. this is not something that is turning around in their favor. caller: you have got it all wrong. we don't need to throw more money to the irs.

they are taking money illegally away from the american people. let me tell you, i am 70 years old. i have been watching these nixon tapes on c-span. i was a young mother in all of this was going on. the american people have no idea whatsoever what was going on because back then, the newspapers didn't give you the truth at all. right now, i have realized how much truth is kept away from me during this time of growing up with my children and my husband. throwing money at any of these things is like throwing it down a dark cold. fashion are cold. it is money going down a dark hole. i think about how much i could

use the money that i was paying for all of these crooks out here doing all of these crooked stuff. basically mean my husband worked our staff to to survive. you don't need to throw any more at them. >> i would note that i was at doing that sentiments of irs employees. it wasn't my own opinion. i have definitely heard this a lot. we have heard this all the time. some republicans say this would be that money to invest any more the irs because they simply don't feel and many folks that the irs isfeel that deserving of any more resources, deserving of any more money. if we are going to look or place to be more efficient, the irs is a wonderful place to start. number one, they don't feel like they would do any better of a job if they did have more news

sources and more money to do it. it is a very open question right now as to whether the idea rest will get more money or less if you were a betting person and had to put money on whether they were going to get more or less at least in the short term, i would say that they are going to get less based on all of the indications we're getting from congress right now. a caller on the line of independence. good morning. caller: hi. corporationeal with and union, all of these different kinds of packs donating money to campaigns is totally ridiculous. this could be solved by changing the law. if you are not registered to for particular candidate or whatever, you can contribute. that is all there is to it. why should i contribute to a

campaign for state senator running in hell for now? that is wrong. i should be able to influence somebody else's elections in another place. i should only be able to contribute to candidates that i can legally vote for. guest: what if control of the house or senate -- if control of the house or the senate were at stake? would you contribute to that? caller: no. i shouldn't be allowed to. i can't vote for the guy did why should i contribute to his campaign? host: i will let you jump in. add some background to what the callers talking about, it is perfectly legal if i live in virginia or maryland, i have every right under current law to donate to a senate candidate in california or washington state.

i could donate to someone who is running for a dogcatcher in montana i want to. there's nothing that prohibits me at least according to federal law from making a donation to just about anyone across this country. how does this play out in reality? prominentmple is too senate races that are happening. very good or republican primary fight. there were millions of dollars worth of money ever spent in that race and were coming from the types of groups that we have been talking about today. the super pac's and the nonprofit groups. where were they from? they weren't from mississippi. they were from virginia, washington, d.c. the groups themselves have not care that much about the inner workings of the mississippi state politics, but the deathly care about the control of the u.s. senate.

they care about getting one republican candidate in office over another republican candidate. -- we saw that in a lesser, but still notable degree . they faced a major challenge from the tea party candidates. many of the outside groups are coming into that race were not based in kansas. they do not really have any relationship to the state of kansas. they're putting up advertisements even though they were based in the state of georgia. they're based in virginia or washington, d.c. they cared about that race from a national perspective. dating care about it from a local perspective. the president of a group joined our news anchors program. that will be airing tomorrow p.m. at 10 a.m. and 6 he talks about group spending upwards of $55 million so far in

the 2012 election. they talk about banal money americans could spend. here is what he had to say -- that amount of money americans could spend. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> can you tell us how much it has been so far and what you expect to spend through the rest of the cycle? aroundrts said somewhere 55 or $60 million i guess on tv ads. we have a very strong infrastructure on the ground. that is a large expenditure. we all know exactly what we are talking about. >> we spent significantly on efforts like this for years. this is not a brand-new thing for us.

we have been very active for a number of years now. a doe biggest criticism is not disclose the donors. they don't have to say who they are giving to. that leads to the "dark money" accusations. why not just as close? .> i mentioned the irs scandal they're targeting american citizens based on the fact that they happen to disagree with ideology of this administration. i think there is a chilling affect. as long as you have abuses like isn't only a swipe at democrats. we think it is the best thing to protect the privacy of donors. they have shown --

demonstrations as they will use fear in agencies to go after people. we think it is a prudent thing to protect identities of americans who might become an immediate target. host: where does americans for prosperity fit into this? what is interesting is they have gone a different route than certain nonprofits. definitely a lot of the super pacs operate there. most of the advertisements that they are putting out doesn't directly advocate for and against candidates. it takes maybe half a step of going to that point were often times it will talk about certain issues that they care about.

we are offering our opinions as we have a first amendment right to do. there is criticism we hear where groups are in that type of activity. of campaignot finance reform who will argue that this is for all intents and purposes political ads. they're not going in cities or states or parts of the country.

i don't have political races or ads masquerading as issue ads. is a very active debate by now as to what should happen with those types of political ads. they will look at a group like americans for prosperity and the much of the funding for many of the financial ties back to one of the most political groups. the koch brothers. there's is definitely political elements to this from both sides. that too is an open question as to which that will face stricter regulation and whether it would go forward in the future. it is perfectly legal. we will try to get to the last couple of calls.

caller: it shows there is enough evidence to go after the irs. they have to go through the department of justice. guest: there are definitely things they can do. in most cases we wouldn't be able to send someone to jail on a unilateral basis. that one very powerful power if you will. that is the subpoena powers. indicating hell government officials to talk about the irs to disclose information that is very difficult to get. we have filed a freedom of forrmation act request

similar or same information as house committees have. that is something we have not been able to get as easily or that the house is been able to get. we have had never sponsored. we don't have subpoena power. budget information that is coming out from that hearing has been taking place up on capitol hill. they have enhanced abilities and powers as a congressional committee to compel that kind of information and the release of that information for their consumption and the public's consumption. good morning, frank. caller: good morning. -- aboutling because

the irs. audit [indiscernible] they are still taking my social security money out of my check every month. i lost my house. i paid them for everything between kansas city and austin, texas. host: he is talking about his personal information. anything you want to comment on what he brings up? guest: i don't think you're going to find too many people if favoranked their government agencies and the irs will come out on top or anywhere close to it for whatever personal reason someone might have to. the irs is not going to be a

favorite institution by many americans. at the same time, they play a very critical role in the way -- but in a political sense, they will have a major role in what happens in political and pains and political elections in part because of what they do and regards to nonprofit groups, but also because there have been a lot of governmental agencies that have some part of the campaign election i and -- pie and have some jurisdiction over the way campaigns are waged. the have their own share of problems. a notable example is where many that gos or cases before the federal election commission come of the democrats and republicans on the commission are able to reach an agreement of some sort of path forward here and there are a lot

of deadlock votes on high-profile cases are they will come to a partial agreement on a major question on campaign law in this country. in a way there's a bit of a power vacuum. guest: some folks, particularly those who might lean to the left would like. host: dave levinthal is the senior political writer for the center for public