-- senate floor and a texture organization. says you are basically mr. dressing the health care law in your ads aimed at democrats and you are trying to buy the senate

>> we had fundraising. i think they will start to say -- wonder what these groups are doing that has someone like harry reid so angry? we were doing relatively well before then. >> one question i had, clearly they were trying to set up the ands as --to demonize them hold them as a rallying cry for democrats, but i wonder how many people know who the koch brothers are? >> we assume it is a base strategy. they have to do something to whip up their hard-core base. that is what we assume. it is either on the fund rising side for them or activist side.

most americans, casual observers of the policy arena, do not have any sense of food david and charles koch are. that is what we assume. it is a base plate. it is also a chance to change the subject. they do not want to talk about obamacare and the irs scandals. they do not want to talk about just the failure of their agenda. they can't talk about energy. so, this is a useful new villain. idea that thishe is your develop -- your effort to get a pro-business senate in there and you're trying to control the agenda that way? >> when i think about obamacare, which is been the predominant thrust of our message over the -- we began working

on obamacare in spring of 2009. this is not year 5 -- what we think is a long-term effort. this -- really, it is a continuation of what has been a long-term effort. we have worked on energy for years. we were some of the first folks to come out in 2008 against cap on trade in a significant way with real money and real troops and a effort to defeat cap and trade even with post presidential nominees were for cap and trade. is a long-term issue on our part. we are serious about it. it is going to continue. when we put this together in january or february of this be talkingll still

about obamacare, the energy policies, and rolling back the policies of his government. >> you have changed your ads a little bit. do you think obamacare started the year bombarding democrats on obamacare. do you think that that has lost is -- lost its first? >> the kaiser foundation has been running this from the very beginning. they have a poll that came out this week that showed it lower. they are bringing up this. they have this. obamacare still remains. the issue retains potency. we would be remiss not to bring rags the scandals with our veterans.

obamacare still remains the predominant issue for us. >> has the leadership made a mistake in moving away? >> leadership was moving away to repeal and replace to the lawsuit. >> i think they made this on the repeal and replace votes. i think they are doing it because they know the courts take a wild to act. they have to start doing it now. even though it does politically like the -- let the president and his allies play the victim.

they are raising millions of dollars. most of what this president is doing is this. there was the pace to get this motivated. it is not a serious effort. they numbers show that. this is down to 41%. it is really a play for his base. he has lost the middle. the gallup poll is down to 41%. i mentioned the nbc news. the journal poll is down to 40. he has lost the middle. not just on the issues, but on their confidence in him personally. there only issue is to try to get the base so whipped up that hopefully they can stand a loss. we will see if it works. you never know. >> you mention january next year. will you be talking about republican control? >> i am not a crystal ball.

i think the incumbent democrat their onlyere -- chance is to make this about personalities. it is on the issues. politically speaking. in the end, we will see if they are successful in doing that. if this election is felt on a whether or not they have obamacare votes, whether they are not allowing one on keystone pipeline. you have the spectacle. i'm not been able to get a vote on something that is very important. it is kind of embarrassing. if it is on the issues, they are gone. >> how do you explain some of the polling, the troubles with the affordable care act. what we know historically what happens, considering all that, there are very strong head winds

and republican favor. why does it look like a slamdunk? why is it so competitive? >> two things come to mind. it is very difficult to be -- to be a sitting united states senator. it is a good place to look. 2010,you had a dramatic change of senate seats. i think only two democrats and seats were lost in the same avalanche. it used to be senate seat were more volatile. and how seats were the ones that were safest. that has changed in the last three to four cycles. really the last decade is probably a better way to put it. the last biggest shift was 2006. you mentioned that kind of six year itch for bush. he was below 40%.

he was doing worse than present obama. seats, sixhouse senate seats, which was a big number. that was a big number. speaking in all candor, the republican brand is weak. it really is. a lot of conservatives have shifted independent when they self identify themselves. one reason they have been doing better with independents is they have rejected this administration's big government agenda. also you have more independent who used to be republican who got fed up with the brand. i'm not point to call myself republican anymore. so, the republican brand is still weak. i do think they were able to recruit better candidates this year. they have a better core of candidates. >> who is to blame for the brand being week? >> i think themselves. when they were in the power. they let spending go. they did some good things.

this is not an ad hominem attack. and 2003 tax2001 cuts. i will never forget -- our first onional issue ever was earmarks. we were a relatively new organization. abc nightline called as a young, scrappy upstart. it has changed i guess. we decided the 50 most egregious earmarks in the country. we went to 27 house republican districts and 23 democratic districts. i do think the brand was diminished among a lots of conservatives. i will say the president has been successful with class warfare primarily in harming the brand further. a lot of the republicans are doing self-inflicted damage over

the last decade. >> is a part of the problem that the republican party is viewed by the the party of no, the party that shut down the government. you all were supportive of that. >> we were not. we openly said we thought it was flawed. we parted with most of our allies. we felt it was a flawless strategy. we had the sequester in place. it was not perfect but it was a way to tighten down discretionary spending. when you have a shutdown we ended up losing the sequester budget. they were blown through. these were bitter defeats from the sides of government that occurred. i would delineate between the government shut down side. voters do not like that and they do associate that more with republicans. i do think americans are not as

as concerned about obstruction. polls, but i do read a lot of them. there was a poll about trust in the federal government. they have been taking this three or four decades now. it is the lowest level of trust in the federal government ever, even lower. >> have republicans learned a lesson? a story about the legislation that the house republicans have passed. much of it did not include offsets. they are continuing with tax extenders. most are not paid for. they are going further into debt and deficit. have they learned a lesson? >> i think they learned some of the wrong lessons.

like i think they have learned some of the wrong lessons. last all our thought is when you actually take a firm position early and say we've got to get spending under control and here are the numbers that a reasonable and do it early, i think it was the 2010-2000 levin death. they had this proposal. republicans took an early -- 2010-2011 debt. they have this proposal early. republicans actually won the exchange in the end. the commission was formed that do not do anything. it would got the sequester caps. not perfect but a better result than just spinning out of control. last year's effort tied the budget to another issue. i think the public looks at that and says wait a minute. obamacare is one thing. the budget is another thing. even though we do not like obamacare, we do not know this is the right way to go. that is the reason they lost. they bossed some of the wrong lessons.

think about virginia. medicaid expansion. the democrat governor tried to do the same thing that they were going to shut down government if we do not get medication. -- medicaid expansion. he made the mistake republicans made. he was punished. the voters turned against him. his numbers were low. he tried to tie a state budget to an extraneous issue. i'll think american citizens like that. >> speaking of spending, you have spent tens of millions of dollars this year. can you tell us how much you have spent so far? >> published reports have said that we were between 55 and 60 million on television ads. and we have a very strong infrastructure on the ground. this is a larger expenditure. i'm not going to give a firm number. it is a significant number. >> we all know exactly what we are talking about.

i will say this. we have spent significantly on efforts like this. this is not a brand-new thing. we have been very active for a number of years. >> the biggest criticism of the group is that you do not disclose the donors. the donors do not have to say who they are giving to. why not just disclose? >> i mentioned the irs scandal. we had the chilling spectacle, the most feared revelatory agency in the nation. targeting american citizens based on the fact that they disagree. it is documented. i think there is a chilling effect. as long as you have abuses like that, both parties have done that. they only swipe that democrats.

it is clear. we think it is the best thing to protect the privacy of donors. they will use the most feared regulatory agency in the year and go after people. they have shown that. we think it is a prudent thing to protect the identities of will absolutely become the media targets of a politicized irs and federal bureaucracy. you youglad that mentioned the shut down. you also mentioned the farm bill. it was divided. the republican party long had the strong alliance with the business community. you're starting to see that divide on a number of issues. talk about that? >> there is a lot more that binds the two groups together

than separates. when you look at the gulf between the movement in the chamber or the business and what divides the two you have government cronyism. the same kind of wealth care programs for corporations. we think both are in effect. they just do not work beyond a basic safety net for folks. i think that is the biggest one. that is what the export/import thing is. if you look at the gulf between the core democrats and the chamber or national association s, the gulf is a chasm. you have basic corporate rates. they are using those to say how -- how dare you use an inversion politicalt is not

patriotism? would say there is a real division between the movement wing of the business but they pale in comparison. main break-- the apart his crony capitalism. not just energy for renewables. they do not work. postera is not -- is the we also don't think you should child for that. we also don't think you should be subsidizing ethanol. basic business tax breaks. those are good. does help create entrepreneurial drive and energy. not when you single out individual industries or companies for tax breaks they and corporate set-asides. don't work. we do oppose them. we will keep opposing them. it causes some discomfort. it is the right thing to do. we cannot become an appendage of the republican party. we're not going to be. >> do they get subsidies also?

saying.is what i am they should not get them. we have said that openly. we put a lot of time and money behind the farm bill battle. that is why it was a bitter defeat. it was successful last summer. there's no way around it. that was one of the more bitter policy defeats of the year. they came on the heels of the shut down. it harms the movement's ability to get folks to hold the line. that is one of the reasons we opposed it. it is not a goal that is a a golf that is -- it is not gulf that is insurmountable. it is not one that approaches this. >> you were directly involved in these races. there were two more incumbent republican challenges from the right this week. alexander won pretty easily actually after senator cochran had a tougher time. why do you think those efforts failed to beat them in a primary?

>> we weren't involved. i'm not going to be a monday morning quarterback. i think the view that we would have even though we weren't involved in any of those is that if you think about what is the most important thing having a more pure 45th republican or is the most important thing next leftnot having a hard majority? probably the value proposition would be greater on the latter than the former. i hope that the republicans are not having so much into movement -- interparty, into movement warfare. i say that looking analytically. we are not practicing. we could choose to use a portion

for direct advocacy. we are not doing it this year. if you look at the value proposition, it seems that having a different composition in the senate will be more advantageous. >> will you do that again in 2016? >> we have not made a decision. it is one that we don't want to do. we've only done at one time. we thought president obama's policies were so bad. we did not advocate for mitt romney. we advocated against president obama. it was an important distinction. we were not trying to attack or demean governor romney. he is a good guy. we were hitting the administration. >> if hillary clinton is the nominee? >> this will take care of itself. we are not in a position to say.

you are big players. >> our goal is to grow a long-term infrastructure that onr-end, you're out can take the left and when these policy these policyn battles. it is important to know -- we are not just in states like florida and ohio. we are also in illinois. and south carolina. two states that will not be remotely in play. it is a national effort to hold -- build this infrastructure. we are determined to build it. >> how would you compare the folks thinking about running for president with the last class in 2012? it was not a strong,

accomplished group running. it just wasn't. i do not mean to demean individually. there were some good folks. the folks looking at running on the republican side in 2016 have accomplishment and experience, i are every bit as good as the 1980 class that had reagan and bush and connolly and crane. it was a powerful, accomplished group of folks running for president on the republican side. i do not know that we have that. >> who are you talking about? >> you never know for sure who ended up going. i think ted cruz and potentially governor jeb bush and scott walker and john kasich and senator marco rubio is looking here. i think there are governors who have a strong record of accomplishment. i know i'm leaving out some folks.

governor jindal of louisiana. mike pence of indiana. he is one of our favorite governors. i do think it is easy to run it is a deep field. i do think it is easy to run this year from the stateside. it will be easier for governor to make his or her case. you have rubio, paul, and ted cruz. three senators, who, if anyone can make it, they can. >> we are out of time. thank you. >> thank you. we are back with our reporters. how is the senate looking for this fall 2014? >> it is looking tough for democrats. it is americans for prosperity. they got in very early in some key races. the louisiana spent a lot of money at the beginning and not

-- knocked the democrats back on their heels. they have been recovering ever since. right now our model at the new york times says the republicans are slightly avery to take the -- favorite to take the senate. there are three seats that are generally conceded to the republicans. montana, south dakota -- it is a matter of finding three or four more. and other groups affiliated with the coke network are in play. including allergan, which is a race that was not on anyone's radar >> they add to the at the beginning of the year. >> they add to our at the beging of the year. >> i think that the ads are part of it and, certainly, it requires the democrats to spend a lot of money.

they would like it. they do have a ground game. , i don't thinke the republicans have a concession about the recent elections. >> you asked this question, the democrats are facing these .eadwinds the democrats may be behind. just slightly behind the margin of error. not run their best campaigns. some of the incumbents have run good campaigns. .ark begich was a key target

some other things have worked in his favor. i think it is up in the air if they will yet a say. >> let's say they take the senate. >> as favorable as it was for in 2016,ns this year, it is the reverse and you have a lot of senators to our up for reelection in states that turned democratic. >> wisconsin, pennsylvania. >> you know the exact ones. so, yeah, i think it will be a challenge. depend on it will what happens in the senate. there are going to be big

pressures to produce and you have all the seats in swing states. how does that play for those folks? they could be, even if they take the majority, that they have to be perfect or be short-lived. under that scenario, a presidential election and a tentative hold on the senate will stop but i have done reporting about the budget and they want to get a budget. i think it gives them credibility. it will be hard with the republican budget. it will have to have significant spending reductions. >> americans for prosperity wants a budget. they are meeting with them now.

that will be where they are coming from. >> what are you watching here as we get closer to november for 2014. >> they mentioned the ground game and i think it will be interesting to watch on both sides. the mid turn in and the younger woman and minorities that we saw who helped when the second term our home. that will be a big challenge for democrats. especially when you have so many democrats and incumbents running away from president obama and away from his coalition. it was very dependent on those voters. .> politics are unpredictable some ran better races than we thought. they had a very tough time and the landscape is still shifting

event. >> with weeks to go, still shifting. coral and seven reinhardt, thank you for being here. -- coral and seth reinhardt, thank you for being here. institute ofan certified public accountants holds a conference tomorrow. d a discussion. a look at financial management issues. you can watch both panels on c-span. >> next, a debate between the candidates in the virginia senate race. mark warner is running for a second term against ed gillespie and they faced off on a range of issues. this is